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2013/10/26 21:08:49
Subject: Alien vs Predator Miniatures Game from Prodos Games
*bursts though room with axe* HEEEAAARRRS JHONNY!!!
I hope this is a retail release, call me old fashioned but (when I was a boy and all ) I don't really like KS very much and much prefer retail releases (but I think that's only because I pay way too much attention to Mantics KS, and that puts me off them).
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/10/26 21:12:55
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: no we don't know if it's going to be a KS (although I think that's likely) or a retail release
this is just pre-release teaser stuff
Prodos Rob posted this reply in the AvP thread on Frothers a few days ago, the wording at the end really makes it sound like they're planning a Kickstarter.
We are just finalizing the rules and some of the models, getting them painted etc before releasing them.
We want this to be right, not rushed out. Warzone was a bit rushed out and we never anticipated it would raise more than £35,000. This time we are expecting more from it and we want to be ready.
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: no we don't know if it's going to be a KS (although I think that's likely) or a retail release
this is just pre-release teaser stuff
Prodos Rob posted this reply in the AvP thread on Frothers a few days ago, the wording at the end really makes it sound like they're planning a Kickstarter.
We are just finalizing the rules and some of the models, getting them painted etc before releasing them.
We want this to be right, not rushed out. Warzone was a bit rushed out and we never anticipated it would raise more than £35,000. This time we are expecting more from it and we want to be ready.
I'm taking the Mierce stance on this, as long as the models are good enough, then I can enjoy painting the minis and if the game is good enough, that's a bonus.
At least the structure of this game suggests that getting a couple of the factions should be very easy, so of the game is good, opponents should be easy to recruit.
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
Did stretch goals with warzone unlock freebies with any frequency? From my somewhat casual following of the campaign the vast majority of unlocks were different figures and factions for purchase, not freebies.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/27 01:10:02
We Munch for Macragge! FOR THE EMPRUH! Cheesesticks and Humus!
2013/10/27 02:24:09
Subject: Alien vs Predator Miniatures Game from Prodos Games
warboss wrote: Did stretch goals with warzone unlock freebies with any frequency? From my somewhat casual following of the campaign the vast majority of unlocks were different figures and factions for purchase, not freebies.
As far as I can recall there wasnt much or anything of that, but I am entirely fine with that considering the amount of models they were able to bring out for that range. If they released them sans kickstarter it would have been a much longer and harder row to hoe.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/27 02:24:29
Glory is fleeting. Obscurity is forever.
2013/10/27 04:21:45
Subject: Alien vs Predator Miniatures Game from Prodos Games
warboss wrote: Did stretch goals with warzone unlock freebies with any frequency? From my somewhat casual following of the campaign the vast majority of unlocks were different figures and factions for purchase, not freebies.
they added a 10% bonus after a certain point, added in additional selections (all levels were selection based, so it would go from say 4 troop choices to 5) and did have a couple exclusive freebies.
2013/10/28 01:49:28
Subject: Re:Alien vs Predator Miniatures Game from Prodos Games
Sorry I didn't realize the inital pic was a modified necron. I resized the marine determined by the width of the base. Due to differances in the camera angle it's not precise but it'd be pretty close.
The marines appear to be on 30mm bases; which using the bases as a measurement looks to place the smart gunner at about 34-35mm tall and the slightly hunched figure to the left appears to be about 32mm. (due to being hunched) Obviously I'm just working from pictures but they seem ever slightly taller than GW models.
The proportions on the models are great, I like a more realistic focus than what GW uses which is one of the reasons I like Infinity figures so much. The detail on the figures is killer as they really did their homework to match the movies, so definately no complaints there.
(As I mentioned before I'm fine with whatever scale they are in as I'll be using them for their own game (or the old leading edge Aliens game) and not mixed with GW).
I love what I'm seeing so far and cannot wait for this to get released.
This pic is still a bit off-putting Looks like they're looking to be at least 32mm (to the eye). That's not terrible, but with my sci-fi collection much more on the side of 28mm, that's a significant difference. I could still be persuaded by a great deal, but in general I like for my human figures to be of similar size.
On the plus side, these will likely scale well with many current lines including Infinity, Reaper Chronoscope (especially the IMEF and NOVA troopers), AT43, and others.
Infinity is even smaller scale than 40K (true 28mm) so what makes you think they'll scale well? Unless you're keen for a faction of giants I guess!
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
The aesthetic and style doesn't match Infinity at all. Or, I don't think 40k either for that matter!
They look like good sculpts and compared to a lot of big-license miniatures definitely look promising (comparing them to the likes of the new Star Trek miniature range for instance) - let's enjoy these on their own merits, not whether 100 of them on the tabletop are going to look out of place next to a sodding Leman Russ
Another point to consider is that for a miniature to be real scale (and hence right size heads hands etc.), if you make in GW 28mm rather than actual 28mm the limbs and fine detail will be too fine. Prodos miniatures are truescale 28mm, meaning foot to eye is approx 28mm. Equally the heads and hands are the right size for the body, rather than elephantised. Also to be fair to GW alot of their miniatures (e.g. Older Cadians and Catchans) were made using greens, where sculpting of finer detail is not possible. If you look at their newer Catchan command squad you will see quite a size and relative proportion move as those minis (like Prodos minis) are computer designed.
I hope that helps?
2013/10/28 08:52:08
Subject: Alien vs Predator Miniatures Game from Prodos Games
As someone that backed the Warzone Kickstarter I just think it's worth warning some people about some of the issues with some Prodos miniatures, they look great in renders and some photos but it's easy to miss some of the real life problems.
(1) There have been instances of super detailed renders and then when the models come out from casting a lot of the detail is merged together and obscured because they tried to cram too much detail in and their casting process couldn't achieve that fidelity. I've had some face masks virtually merge onto the rounded head they are meant to cover - the detail loss on some models was pretty bad. In some other cases the detail is so subtle, particularly with some face and armour pieces, that I'm almost certain it will be lost when priming.
(2) Many of the Warzone models are extremely fragile and haven't really been designed with durability in mind. For example none of the weapons are modelled on the arms, you cut the weapons off and then glue them on, which is all fine and normal. But when the weapon is only 1mm thick and the content point 1.5mm long it's not going to take much to knock it off, I've had issues even when using industrial strength glue - some of the pieces are just so tiny and thin. For example one of my machine guns is so thin you can see through the resin on parts that are meant to be filled. I also had one ankle break in the post - fine that's normal with models, except the break point at the ankle is less than 2mm wide. 2mm wide ankles is not terribly smart.
(3) Other issues - they used square lock pegs for joints. Makes assembly easy, though restrictive, but nearly all of the lock joints were partially infilled with resin - so they didn't work but nor where they flush to the surface so you had to put green stuff in just to do a flush glue joint.
Also, particularly bad, on the arms that were meant to have the square pegs to set into the joints the pegs were up against the part attached to the sprue and were completely clogged with resin, meaning you couldn't use them if you wanted to.
(4) One of my units was impossible to assemble as per the render, one of the set of weapons literally had no contact points so you had to ram green stuff into it and just slather it all over the hand. It was also to impossible to assemble the arms as laid out in the render, even with prodigous should cutting due to their lengths and limited variety of poses.
Quality does matter but there's more to quality than just render details and the hand selected models representing the best of the bunch.
Just somethong to keep in mind before going all in on the Kickstarter, based on Warzone I'd recommend a small initial investment and then judging for yourself.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Forgot to mention the card stock used in Warzone:
(1) Verrrry thin stock, not very durable.
(2) Non-standard size so you won't be able to get deck protectors for them.
(3) Arrived with most cards with damaged corners as it had peeled back.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/28 10:16:31
2013/10/28 10:53:02
Subject: Re:Alien vs Predator Miniatures Game from Prodos Games
As someone that backed the Warzone Kickstarter I just think it's worth warning some people about some of the issues with some Prodos miniatures, they look great in renders and some photos but it's easy to miss some of the real life problems.
(1) There have been instances of super detailed renders and then when the models come out from casting a lot of the detail is merged together and obscured because they tried to cram too much detail in and their casting process couldn't achieve that fidelity. I've had some face masks virtually merge onto the rounded head they are meant to cover - the detail loss on some models was pretty bad. In some other cases the detail is so subtle, particularly with some face and armour pieces, that I'm almost certain it will be lost when priming.
(2) Many of the Warzone models are extremely fragile and haven't really been designed with durability in mind. For example none of the weapons are modelled on the arms, you cut the weapons off and then glue them on, which is all fine and normal. But when the weapon is only 1mm thick and the content point 1.5mm long it's not going to take much to knock it off, I've had issues even when using industrial strength glue - some of the pieces are just so tiny and thin. For example one of my machine guns is so thin you can see through the resin on parts that are meant to be filled. I also had one ankle break in the post - fine that's normal with models, except the break point at the ankle is less than 2mm wide. 2mm wide ankles is not terribly smart.
(3) Other issues - they used square lock pegs for joints. Makes assembly easy, though restrictive, but nearly all of the lock joints were partially infilled with resin - so they didn't work but nor where they flush to the surface so you had to put green stuff in just to do a flush glue joint.
Also, particularly bad, on the arms that were meant to have the square pegs to set into the joints the pegs were up against the part attached to the sprue and were completely clogged with resin, meaning you couldn't use them if you wanted to.
(4) One of my units was impossible to assemble as per the render, one of the set of weapons literally had no contact points so you had to ram green stuff into it and just slather it all over the hand. It was also to impossible to assemble the arms as laid out in the render, even with prodigous should cutting due to their lengths and limited variety of poses.
Quality does matter but there's more to quality than just render details and the hand selected models representing the best of the bunch.
Just somethong to keep in mind before going all in on the Kickstarter, based on Warzone I'd recommend a small initial investment and then judging for yourself.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Forgot to mention the card stock used in Warzone:
(1) Verrrry thin stock, not very durable.
(2) Non-standard size so you won't be able to get deck protectors for them.
(3) Arrived with most cards with damaged corners as it had peeled back.
Have any pictures of these issues?
Every time a terrorist dies a Paratrooper gets his wings.
2013/10/28 10:58:46
Subject: Re:Alien vs Predator Miniatures Game from Prodos Games
(1) There have been instances of super detailed renders and then when the models come out from casting a lot of the detail is merged together and obscured because they tried to cram too much detail in and their casting process couldn't achieve that fidelity. I've had some face masks virtually merge onto the rounded head they are meant to cover - the detail loss on some models was pretty bad. In some other cases the detail is so subtle, particularly with some face and armour pieces, that I'm almost certain it will be lost when priming.
Hmm. I noticed some issues with flash on my capitol troops, but didn't have anything quite as bad as you describe. And mine have primed up really well. I'd be interested to know which starter you went with?
(2) Many of the Warzone models are extremely fragile and haven't really been designed with durability in mind. For example none of the weapons are modelled on the arms, you cut the weapons off and then glue them on, which is all fine and normal. But when the weapon is only 1mm thick and the content point 1.5mm long it's not going to take much to knock it off, I've had issues even when using industrial strength glue - some of the pieces are just so tiny and thin. For example one of my machine guns is so thin you can see through the resin on parts that are meant to be filled. I also had one ankle break in the post - fine that's normal with models, except the break point at the ankle is less than 2mm wide. 2mm wide ankles is not terribly smart.
They are a bit fragile, a lot of fine cuts and things that can be snap easily. Mine have been flexible at the joints, however. I did notice some thinness however. And if 2mm is truescale, then 2mm it must be. It's not a question of smart, just scaling.
(3) Other issues - they used square lock pegs for joints. Makes assembly easy, though restrictive, but nearly all of the lock joints were partially infilled with resin - so they didn't work but nor where they flush to the surface so you had to put green stuff in just to do a flush glue joint. Also, particularly bad, on the arms that were meant to have the square pegs to set into the joints the pegs were up against the part attached to the sprue and were completely clogged with resin, meaning you couldn't use them if you wanted to.
You could, you know, cut em off like I did for some of the joints I didn't like? This seems more like a preference issue. Are you sure you just didn't cut all of the gate off? I haven't had the female connecter clog issue yet (again, cause I cut the entire peg off if I wanted to change the pose/it didn't fit.)
(4) One of my units was impossible to assemble as per the render, one of the set of weapons literally had no contact points so you had to ram green stuff into it and just slather it all over the hand. It was also to impossible to assemble the arms as laid out in the render, even with prodigous should cutting due to their lengths and limited variety of poses.
See I'm really curious which set you got. All my weapons were attached the arms. Like some Infinity models, getting the pose correct was a bit tough when you were glueing 4 ish joints at once, but that comes with the territory in my experience. YMMV.
Just somethong to keep in mind before going all in on the Kickstarter, based on Warzone I'd recommend a small initial investment and then judging for yourself.
Agreed.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Forgot to mention the card stock used in Warzone:
(1) Verrrry thin stock, not very durable.
(2) Non-standard size so you won't be able to get deck protectors for them.
(3) Arrived with most cards with damaged corners as it had peeled back.
1. I didn't notice that.
2. They fit gaming card sleeves.
3. Hmm. You really do seem to have gotten a rotten bit of stuff with your KS. I didn't have any thing like this issue. Did you contact them for replacements?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/28 11:27:16
As someone that backed the Warzone Kickstarter I just think it's worth warning some people about some of the issues with some Prodos miniatures, they look great in renders and some photos but it's easy to miss some of the real life problems.
(1) There have been instances of super detailed renders and then when the models come out from casting a lot of the detail is merged together and obscured because they tried to cram too much detail in and their casting process couldn't achieve that fidelity. I've had some face masks virtually merge onto the rounded head they are meant to cover - the detail loss on some models was pretty bad. In some other cases the detail is so subtle, particularly with some face and armour pieces, that I'm almost certain it will be lost when priming.
(2) Many of the Warzone models are extremely fragile and haven't really been designed with durability in mind. For example none of the weapons are modelled on the arms, you cut the weapons off and then glue them on, which is all fine and normal. But when the weapon is only 1mm thick and the content point 1.5mm long it's not going to take much to knock it off, I've had issues even when using industrial strength glue - some of the pieces are just so tiny and thin. For example one of my machine guns is so thin you can see through the resin on parts that are meant to be filled. I also had one ankle break in the post - fine that's normal with models, except the break point at the ankle is less than 2mm wide. 2mm wide ankles is not terribly smart.
(3) Other issues - they used square lock pegs for joints. Makes assembly easy, though restrictive, but nearly all of the lock joints were partially infilled with resin - so they didn't work but nor where they flush to the surface so you had to put green stuff in just to do a flush glue joint.
Also, particularly bad, on the arms that were meant to have the square pegs to set into the joints the pegs were up against the part attached to the sprue and were completely clogged with resin, meaning you couldn't use them if you wanted to.
(4) One of my units was impossible to assemble as per the render, one of the set of weapons literally had no contact points so you had to ram green stuff into it and just slather it all over the hand. It was also to impossible to assemble the arms as laid out in the render, even with prodigous should cutting due to their lengths and limited variety of poses.
Quality does matter but there's more to quality than just render details and the hand selected models representing the best of the bunch.
Just somethong to keep in mind before going all in on the Kickstarter, based on Warzone I'd recommend a small initial investment and then judging for yourself.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Forgot to mention the card stock used in Warzone:
(1) Verrrry thin stock, not very durable.
(2) Non-standard size so you won't be able to get deck protectors for them.
(3) Arrived with most cards with damaged corners as it had peeled back.
In other hand,I am happy that you have created new account mr. jimbojohnson here on Dakkadakka just to provide the feedback about our models ;] Thank you.
Also please contact us on orders@warzonegame.com, as far as I know we had couple emails about missing bits but nothing as bad as this feedback.
jimbojohnson wrote: As someone that backed the Warzone Kickstarter I just think it's worth warning some people about some of the issues with some Prodos miniatures, they look great in renders and some photos but it's easy to miss some of the real life problems.
(1) There have been instances of super detailed renders and then when the models come out from casting a lot of the detail is merged together and obscured because they tried to cram too much detail in and their casting process couldn't achieve that fidelity. I've had some face masks virtually merge onto the rounded head they are meant to cover - the detail loss on some models was pretty bad. In some other cases the detail is so subtle, particularly with some face and armour pieces, that I'm almost certain it will be lost when priming.
(2) Many of the Warzone models are extremely fragile and haven't really been designed with durability in mind. For example none of the weapons are modelled on the arms, you cut the weapons off and then glue them on, which is all fine and normal. But when the weapon is only 1mm thick and the content point 1.5mm long it's not going to take much to knock it off, I've had issues even when using industrial strength glue - some of the pieces are just so tiny and thin. For example one of my machine guns is so thin you can see through the resin on parts that are meant to be filled. I also had one ankle break in the post - fine that's normal with models, except the break point at the ankle is less than 2mm wide. 2mm wide ankles is not terribly smart.
(3) Other issues - they used square lock pegs for joints. Makes assembly easy, though restrictive, but nearly all of the lock joints were partially infilled with resin - so they didn't work but nor where they flush to the surface so you had to put green stuff in just to do a flush glue joint.
Also, particularly bad, on the arms that were meant to have the square pegs to set into the joints the pegs were up against the part attached to the sprue and were completely clogged with resin, meaning you couldn't use them if you wanted to.
(4) One of my units was impossible to assemble as per the render, one of the set of weapons literally had no contact points so you had to ram green stuff into it and just slather it all over the hand. It was also to impossible to assemble the arms as laid out in the render, even with prodigous should cutting due to their lengths and limited variety of poses.
Quality does matter but there's more to quality than just render details and the hand selected models representing the best of the bunch.
Just somethong to keep in mind before going all in on the Kickstarter, based on Warzone I'd recommend a small initial investment and then judging for yourself.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Forgot to mention the card stock used in Warzone:
(1) Verrrry thin stock, not very durable.
(2) Non-standard size so you won't be able to get deck protectors for them.
(3) Arrived with most cards with damaged corners as it had peeled back.
Hello again Jimbo. Looks like you are doing a great job for your employers, shame they have such tactics.
1. As seen in the above post this is not true.
2. Armoured Chasseurs, Hatamoto, Hiroko Etoiles Mortants Meka, Casred Warriors, Inquisitors etc are all examples of where this is not true.
3. Some hero models have square pegs (eg Immortal) but you only need one in your force (he is a Warlord), but if you want to convert and mutipose him, the clippers or knife you used to remove him from the sprue work to remove the square plug (maybe you are too used to 'restic' where clippers arent needed)
4. Cant answer this with such vagueness, but can state that I personally have put together every WZR and AVP model (see warzonegame.com) and all fit together (again Restic only needs remedial level of modelling ability)
1). Exactly the same quality as Warmachine
2). Ultrapro Toploaders 3x4 inches. These will fit perfectly in the KR Multicase WZR sell too (we will stock the sleeves shortly)
3). Again, please send orders@warzonegame.com photos and we will happily replace.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/10/28 12:55:33
2013/10/28 12:39:41
Subject: Re:Alien vs Predator Miniatures Game from Prodos Games
jimbojohnson wrote: As someone that backed the Warzone Kickstarter I just think it's worth warning some people about some of the issues with some Prodos miniatures, they look great in renders and some photos but it's easy to miss some of the real life problems.
(1) There have been instances of super detailed renders and then when the models come out from casting a lot of the detail is merged together and obscured because they tried to cram too much detail in and their casting process couldn't achieve that fidelity. I've had some face masks virtually merge onto the rounded head they are meant to cover - the detail loss on some models was pretty bad. In some other cases the detail is so subtle, particularly with some face and armour pieces, that I'm almost certain it will be lost when priming.
(2) Many of the Warzone models are extremely fragile and haven't really been designed with durability in mind. For example none of the weapons are modelled on the arms, you cut the weapons off and then glue them on, which is all fine and normal. But when the weapon is only 1mm thick and the content point 1.5mm long it's not going to take much to knock it off, I've had issues even when using industrial strength glue - some of the pieces are just so tiny and thin. For example one of my machine guns is so thin you can see through the resin on parts that are meant to be filled. I also had one ankle break in the post - fine that's normal with models, except the break point at the ankle is less than 2mm wide. 2mm wide ankles is not terribly smart.
(3) Other issues - they used square lock pegs for joints. Makes assembly easy, though restrictive, but nearly all of the lock joints were partially infilled with resin - so they didn't work but nor where they flush to the surface so you had to put green stuff in just to do a flush glue joint.
Also, particularly bad, on the arms that were meant to have the square pegs to set into the joints the pegs were up against the part attached to the sprue and were completely clogged with resin, meaning you couldn't use them if you wanted to.
(4) One of my units was impossible to assemble as per the render, one of the set of weapons literally had no contact points so you had to ram green stuff into it and just slather it all over the hand. It was also to impossible to assemble the arms as laid out in the render, even with prodigous should cutting due to their lengths and limited variety of poses.
Quality does matter but there's more to quality than just render details and the hand selected models representing the best of the bunch.
Just somethong to keep in mind before going all in on the Kickstarter, based on Warzone I'd recommend a small initial investment and then judging for yourself.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Forgot to mention the card stock used in Warzone:
(1) Verrrry thin stock, not very durable.
(2) Non-standard size so you won't be able to get deck protectors for them.
(3) Arrived with most cards with damaged corners as it had peeled back.
Hello again Jimbo. Looks like you are doing a great job for your employees, shame they have such tactics.
1. As seen in the above post this is not true.
2. Armoured Chasseurs, Hatamoto, Hiroko Etoiles Mortants Meka, Casred Warriors, Inquisitors etc are all examples of where this is not true.
3. Some hero models have square pegs (eg Immortal) but you only need one in your force (he is a Warlord), but if you want to convert and mutipose him, the clippers or knife you used to remove him from the sprue work to remove the square plug (maybe you are too used to 'restic' where clippers arent needed)
4. Cant answer this with such vagueness, but can state that I personally have put together every WZR and AVP model (see warzonegame.com) and all fit together (again Restic only needs remedial level of modelling ability)
1). Exactly the same quality as Warmachine
2). Ultrapro Toploaders 3x4 inches. These will fit perfectly in the KR Multicase WZR sell too (we will stock the sleeves shortly)
3). Again, ask your employers if you can use their phone, Prodos are more than happy to replace them, but remember pulling a card apart will have this affect (whether ours, your employers or any others).
You really should let warzone resurrection handle your customer service.
His response was excellent, yours came across derogatory, and with a new company about to launch a kickstarter we presume this approach is not well received.
He's got a new account, very similar to you, so don't start throwing stones. I'll get the game when it hits the shelves, but will definitely be looking at independent reviews of quality.
@jimbo, was there anything positive about your purchase? I can see why they responded the way they did in the second post, perhaps you can let us know if your be ebaying all of it, or if the benefits of the models outweigh the drawbacks.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/28 12:41:09
LOL, Theo your mind is an amazing place, never change.-camkierhi 9/19/13
I cant believe theo is right.. damn. -comradepanda 9/26/13
None of the strange ideas we had about you involved your sexual orientation..........-Monkeytroll 12/10/13
I'd put you on ignore for that comment, if I could...Alpharius 2/11/14
2013/10/28 12:49:13
Subject: Re:Alien vs Predator Miniatures Game from Prodos Games
I disagree. To me, it sounds very conclusory. I look forward to seeing pictures backing up those claims as they don't square with another review (with pictures) linked in this thread.
Prodos wrote: Looks like you are doing a great job for your employees, shame they have such tactics.
May I ask, for whom do you imply he's working?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/10/28 12:56:27
Prodos wrote: Looks like you are doing a great job for your employees, shame they have such tactics.
May I ask, for whom do you imply he's working?
Agreed, I'd like to hear more. Not that I wouldn't be equally pissy if someone registered a new account to anonymously trash my company, without providing any evidence, shortly before I planned to launch a Kickstarter, but really accusing him of being a shill without providing any evidence for that either is pretty iffy too.
) I don't really like 
Night Lords (40k): 3500pts
Klan Zaw Klan: 4000pts
: 50000
Tacticool always trumps tactics
