Alien vs Predator Miniatures Game, Prodos loses license to AvP. p.266

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**chaos0xomega**

I have pledged many kickstarters, including Robotech and Cthulhu Wars and Raging Heroes, all of which are well known for their production issues and associated controversies, etc. I was never once annoyed at any of these the way I'm annoyed at this Kickstarter right now.

**Nostromodamus**

Hell, I backed Drake and this is more annoying...

**shingouki**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
shingouki wrote:
This was my first venture into kickstarter/crowdfunding and it will probably be my last.

Seems foolish to judge and then condemn all future KS based upon one company's troubles.

Not really condemning all future kickstarters,just stating that i probably wont do it again.Hope that clears it up for you.

**richred_uk**

Alien vs Predator The Miniatures Game
49 mins ·
Hello Everyone,

We are very busy behind the scenes getting AvP ready to ship, so as you can imagine Prodos Games have been very focused on that task. We know that communication has been lacking from us and for this we apologize.

We want to address a few points today for clarity sake.

Prodos Games still have the Aliens vs Predator license. There is no licensing dispute, Kickstarter will not let us choose to keep the page down unless it says there is. So this is why the page still states that there is a dispute.

We cannot set a specific release date, this has been requested by Fox until the product is fully approved and ready to be finally manufactured. We are not allowed to ship any components until the entire project has been approved. This is the nature of a licensed product we are working very hard to get everything finished.

We cannot offer refunds, as the project is a Kickstarter project and the nature of Kickstarter is that it funds the investment required to create the product. Accidents happen and they are currently being resolved. This is how Kickstarters work sometimes a project gets behind, we are behind, but will be fulfilling pledges as soon as we can.

Please be civil in your comments and questions, any aggressive comments will not be tolerated. We understand people are upset, but remain calm we are in the final stretch!

Prodos Games will endeavor to answer all questions whenever possible in 3-5 days from this point forward. I have been allocated to spend a large amount of my time to monitor and answer your questions on this page. We recognize that communication is very important. I can assure you that this will happen going forward and will answer what I can to the best of my ability; with that said sometimes we cannot share everything because something’s are just out of our control.

Thanks
The Prodos Games Team

Noise : Signal. Not impressive.

Edit: that's from the avp Facebook profile page that was reposted on the avp game page by Jim Vladek. Not impressed that it's unsigned or that the 3 prominent prodos staffers have disappeared from the fb group page. Especially since jarek posted his ranty email to ks but never followed it up with their reply, or any changes to the ks page status.

**DaveC**

Why are kickstarter permitting them to keep the page down when by their own admission there is no IP dispute.

Kickstarter should not facilitate a project in preventing comments good or bad that was the whole point of project pages remaining for ever I'm sure there's a good few projects would be happy to see their project disappear from view but KS don't allow this. Are Prodos a special case?

**richred_uk**

Prodos say there is no dispute. Ks say fox raised one. Prodos got shouty. Nothing changed. Prodos say there is no dispute.

Draw your own conclusions.

It is possible to come up with a narrative that meets the above facts and doesn't threaten the game's eventual production, but I've given up expecting anything from this project/ company. What will come will come.

**JohnHwangDD**

We want to address a few points today for clarity sake.
- There is no licensing dispute, so this is why the page still states that there is a dispute.
- We cannot set a specific release date,
- We are not allowed to ship any components
- We cannot offer refunds,

Thanks
The Prodos Games Team

Reading this gives me a lot of confidence that Prodos isn't a bunch of lying, thieving weasels. I wonder if Prodos would accept more late backers and reopen pledges.

At least they'll be shipping things VERY soon, right?

**angelofvengeance**

Lol are we there yet?

**Aeneades**

I like how that extremely non-informative update took over 5 weeks to be approved for release but moving forward they claim they will answer all questions within 3 to 4 days.

**JohnHwangDD**

I like that the "update" is not anything different from what they said earlier. There is literally nothing new that was shared, just a repeat of previous words.

**Nostromodamus**

To be fair, Fox has a monopoly on Prodos' mouth parts, and their vocabulary has been pretty much limited to variations of "soon".

**Dark Severance**

Alex C wrote:
To be fair, Fox has a monopoly on Prodos' mouth parts, and their vocabulary has been pretty much limited to variations of "soon".

Blizzard should sue Fox, everyone knows Blizzard Entertainment has the trademark on Soon(tm)!

**Nostromodamus**

Dark Severance wrote:
Alex C wrote:
To be fair, Fox has a monopoly on Prodos' mouth parts, and their vocabulary has been pretty much limited to variations of "soon".
Blizzard should sue Fox, everyone knows Blizzard Entertainment has the trademark on Soon(tm)!

I think Blizzard is busy fighting Valve for the "soon" trademark.

**CptJake**

angelofvengeance wrote:
Lol are we there yet?

We will be there Very Soon!

**Alpharius**

Alex C wrote:
Dark Severance wrote:
Alex C wrote:
To be fair, Fox has a monopoly on Prodos' mouth parts, and their vocabulary has been pretty much limited to variations of "soon".
Blizzard should sue Fox, everyone knows Blizzard Entertainment has the trademark on Soon(tm)!

I think Blizzard is busy fighting Valve for the "soon" trademark.

Did id relinquish it then?

**Ruglud**

I'd imagine that Big Jim has been tasked with 'communications', as the rest of Prodos aren't very good at it. He's definitely more customer relations focused.

**Nostromodamus**

Ruglud wrote:
I'd imagine that Big Jim has been tasked with 'communications', as the rest of Prodos aren't very good at it. He's definitely more customer relations focused.

Yes, his manner of telling people that "there's no news but everything will be out soon" is much less abrasive than Jarek's.

**Visceral_Mass**

richred_uk wrote:
It is possible to come up with a narrative that meets the above facts and doesn't threaten the game's eventual production, but I've given up expecting anything from this project/ company. What will come will come.

Here's a possible narrative.

Once upon a time, Prodos got the license from Fox. Fox thought Prodos were making one type of game, but discovered they were making another type. Fox raised a dispute with kickstarter while they talked to Prodos. Prodos begged Fox to let them release the game. Fox agreed, but told them the license will expire after everyone is sent their stuff. And they all lived happily ever after.

**Todosi**

I think it is more likely that FOX didn't like the negative comments on the Kickstarter page and someone (Fox? Prodos?) decided to create an IP dispute because the Kickstarter rules say that's the only way to take down a project. Kickstarter has these rules so that backers are kept up to date and always have the record of what was promised during the campaign. Without the page up, the creator can claim whatever they want.

I have been patient up til now, but this ticks me off. Prodos has admitted that they lied to us and Kickstarter about why the page was taken down. I understand you don't like the negative comments, but that is the cost of doing business through a Kickstarter. If you want complete control over communication...fund the project yourself.

**Nostromodamus**

Indeed. I'd be surprised if Prodos gained any long term customers after this project.

**CptJake**

Alex C wrote:
Indeed. I'd be surprised if Prodos gained any long term customers after this project.

Read the comments on their forum, they have plenty of fanboy-ish folks who think Prodos has done and can do no wrong who I suspect will support them long term.

**Nostromodamus**

CptJake wrote:
Alex C wrote:
Indeed. I'd be surprised if Prodos gained any long term customers after this project.

Read the comments on their forum, they have plenty of fanboy-ish folks who think Prodos has done and can do no wrong who I suspect will support them long term.

Oh I know, I guess I should have phrased it "net gain", because for every forum fanboy there's probably 10 others who won't touch anything made by Prodos with a 10' retractable spear.

**Ruglud**

Maybe they went to a 'Business ethics' seminar hosted by Tom Kirby?

**Ruglud**

AvP was mentioned on the Beasts of War: Weekender show. They mention a date of April apparently for delivery of the Kickstarter Pledges. I haven't watched it right through, but it's kicked up a mini storm on the AvP facebook group page.

Jim Vidlak replied:

Jim Vidlak Jr
Good morning all, first off I have not watched the video yet so do not know what was said, but I would like to point out that Warren is not an employee of Prodos Games. I imagine he is speculating, because a release date is not set.

You guys will know when the release date is set before someplace like BOW. So relax and enjoy your weekend.

Followed by Jarek:

Jarek Ever
Strange we haven't talk with them about the release date, in fact we haven't talk about AvP with them at all. Release date will be set once FOX come back to us with changes they want to make to the game.

So, is Jarek implying that MORE changes are going to be needed or has he fethed up his communications AGAIN...

SOON, everyone, VERY SOON...

**Nostromodamus**

I wouldn't attribute any accuracy to BoW information.

**Ruglud**

Agreed, but I'm more interest in Jarek's comment - is he hinting at more delays - and blaming Fox. Jarek, you'd be better staying quiet and letting Jim do the comms...

**PomWallaby**

Whilst it's probably a slip of the tongue I'd have a good chuckle if BOW were to know before Prodos.

**Nostromodamus**

PomWallaby wrote:
Whilst it's probably a slip of the tongue I'd have a good chuckle if BOW were to know before Prodos.

It takes a lot of ineptitude to know less than BoW, but I think Prodos has a good shot at it.

**RiTides**

Man... they really are struggling to finish this off... I wonder what issues Fox had, as the game components looked beautiful. Perhaps the gameplay wasn't up to scratch?

**CptJake**

RiTides wrote:
Man... they really are struggling to finish this off... I wonder what issues Fox had, as the game components looked beautiful. Perhaps the gameplay wasn't up to scratch?

The minis looked good. We never saw other components finished. Even the tiles needed reworking last time they showed them. There are cards,tokens and other stuff too.