Mantic Dungeon Saga Kickstarter - Completed! $1,057,975 total, 5,963 backers

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**Yonan**

You don't *need* to wash it compared to resin, but I still think it a good idea for hard plastic given how quick and easy it is to wash sprues. Can clean $100's worth in a couple minutes and it's worth it just to get packaging dust off if nothing else imo.

"quick tabletop" job... damn you good painters ; p

Yeah I think a hot water bath to repose minis is a good idea even if they're not bent since it's pretty easy and varies things up a bit which is always nice.

**jlong05**

EB just opened up as I backed out.

**GrimDork**

Hmm. Edwyns sword is better, but its very subtly curved back. Thicker martian limb seems more situated. I may try hotter water and perhaps a small clamp/clip splint before the ice water dip.

@yonan, its the dip, makes everything look better.

**Avariel**

So is this Dungeon Seige Kickstarter worth backing?

Doesn't seem like it cause everyone keeps complaining about low mini count. But how is the actual game is it fun?

Zombicide and Super Dungeon Explore are big hits are board game nights so looking for something to supplement those as we will eventually get tired of those although Zombicide has another season to keep things fresh.

I will look into the D+D board games.

I went pretty deep into the Reaper Bones too because I love dragons and big monsters. Reaper bones I feel is a pretty good for what you pay. Sure its not the best but for what I paid I am happy with it. I still haven't painted even half that stuff yet. Lucky if I even have a 3rd done.

**ced1106**

Game's fun, on the tactical side. It's *definitely* better than the D&D game systems. The issue is that Dakka is mostly seasoned hobby miniature gamers, while Dungeon Saga is an entry-level tactical boardgame, with advanced rules that haven't been shown to us yet. Jake Thorton has an extensive game bibliography, and there's no excuse not to research his previous games. OTOH, That doesn't mean you should back this KS -- a retail copy may be sufficient.

**GrimDork**

Yeah, back if you want the few exclusives, extra scenarios from the original DKH games, and neat kickstartery things like that. Oh, and extra boardgame plastic minis. Or sets of those minis in resin instead. They probably won't be selling the resin dudes after the fact.

But if you're after another ready-to-play boxed game that'll play out of the box and go right back in... you'll probably be fine looking it up at retail.

**Azazelx**

ced1106 wrote:
Game's fun, on the tactical side. It's *definitely* better than the D&D game systems.

Unless you're talking about the older DKH games, no-one can say how fun this game is or is not or compare it to other games, since it doesn't exist yet. The older DKH games aren't dungeon exploration or co-op so they are a different genre to the D&D system games (Drizzt, Ashardalon, Ravenloft) but might be comparable to the D&D Dungeon Command series.

**GrimDork**

The alpha rules they released can't be evaluated or considered fun? Granted, the game does not yet exist in its final form, but a playable version is readily available to test and feedback. I assume this is what was being described.

**Azazelx**

I suppose, though I'm the kind who reserves judgement until the final rules are out. Still, I'll grant that he can certainly have an opinion or enjoy them.

**Pacific**

Well, that's really good that you can give him that concession Azazelx!

Grimdork - thanks very much for posting those pics mate!

Gah (that's no-ones name, just a noise I've made!), really can't decide between this one and Heroquest. To make it more confusing, on the Gamezone site they describe the miniatures as being made out of 'resin plastic'..

Will have a read through the rules this evening..

**Baragash**

GrimDork wrote:
The alpha rules they released can't be evaluated or considered fun? Granted, the game does not yet exist in its final form, but a playable version is readily available to test and feedback. I assume this is what was being described.

I love the original DKH, but IMO what's been released so far for this tells me almost nothing that allows me to evaluate the rules for this game.

Without any previews of the advanced and RPG rules I probably don't need two hands to count the number of things I've learnt as someone who already has the DKH set.

For people new to the concept it's probably a lot more interesting though.

**Azazelx**

Pacific wrote:
Well, that's really good that you can give him that concession Azazelx!

Sorry, forgot the internet rules that one can never give any concession in a discussion because I AM WALAYS RIGTE@!

Baragash does point out the main thing - I'm in this for the full rules, rather than the BG-lite ones.

**angelofvengeance**

Azazelx wrote:
I suppose, though I'm the kind who reserves judgement until the final rules are out. Still, I'll grant that he can certainly have an opinion or enjoy them.

One of a few then Azazel. I hate it when people moan about the rules when they've not been fully ironed out yet. Drives me crazy. Particularly with 40K

**judgedoug**

Pacific wrote:

Gah (that's no-ones name, just a noise I've made!), really can't decide between this one and Heroquest. To make it more confusing, on the Gamezone site they describe the miniatures as being made out of 'resin plastic'..

Will have a read through the rules this evening..

Their resin plastic - to make matters even more confusing - is not PVC, like when Mantic was calling their PVC stuff "resin plastic" or "restic" - it is in fact a really high quality spin-castable plastic compound. I did a mini-review of the Dark Elves I bought from them.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/60/569616.page#6443518

**angelofvengeance**

3500 backer goal reached- Dwarf King's Hold Green Menace will be updated for use with Dungeon Saga mechanics and figures.

Sneak peek at Lower Abyssal concept

**The_Real_Chris**

Yep, wash everything... Obsessives even scrub them with a toothbrush...

Well if there are a market for these figures I would want to off-load the common poses as no way will I paint, say skeletons, when I have painted models already...

**ced1106**

Pacific wrote:
Gah (that's no-ones name, just a noise I've made!), really can't decide between this one and Heroquest. To make it more confusing, on the Gamezone site they describe the miniatures as being made out of 'resin plastic'..

Go research Jake Thorton, and you'll find a solid background in miniatures gaming. Go research Gamezone and you'll find no information other than an eight-sided cylindrical die. GZ has no experience in boardgame rules design. Unlike Mantic, GZ did not show any rules during their funding, and still haven't shown them. Freakin' A. This is supposed to be "HeroQuest", not a master's thesis or something. Rules from GZ should be upcoming sometime between September and October (suggesting that you're not receiving HeroQuest, but a game in name only), so maybe you'll get an idea of the rules before the DS funding is over. Or just wait until retail.

The D&D adventure system is *bleargh*. Not at all heroic, as the monsters get first initiative, and the game just keeps pounding on you, like some reverse grinding. It's one of those "oh, you shouldn't play by the mechanics, you should play it in the *spirit* of the game" games. OTOH, The miniatures are from the D&D miniatures line, and the tiles are great for 28mm adventuring. Wrath of Ashardalon has a fun adventure with villager AI, with each villager having a different AI to reflect their personality -- and you have to make sure they don't cause more problems than the monsters do! I would have *never* bought this game had I been on KS at the time. Value's not as good as KS, and the ruleset is poor.

**The_Real_Chris**

My concern is Jake - who is a great games designer (though I think the decision on the limited range of dreadball stats was done when there wasn't the intention to have 8 million different teams - making it an 8+ point scale on an appropriate dice would have been far better...) - doesn't much like this style of game and is taking a fantastic tactical game (DKH is space hulk with less storm bolters) and trying to make it an RPG lite affair. Again the mechanics are limiting and my fear is you won't get after a while much differentiation between greeblies and character progression will have a lot of power 'jumps'.

**ced1106**

True. BGG isn't entirely happy that the Advanced Rules haven't been shown yet, either, not that they're developed for the public yet. OTOH, Jake *has* designed games with "non-gamer" requirements: Foundry games hired him to make games to sell Foundry miniatures, and Mantic had him design DKH with the restriction of using existing sprues. So far, the DS KS isn't a must-buy, so I think waiting for retail is entirely reasonable. Part of participating in KS is risk, and the risk of a unsatisfactory ruleset is certainly part of it. Especially given that most boardgames can be easily purchased at the OLGS at a 30% discount, I don't pledge for non-miniature and sometimes miniature boardgames on KS. Mars Attacks base game retails for $75, and Miniature Market has the pre-order at $50. So your $100 pledge of a base game and $50 credit got you, for your $50 above base game from the OLGS... $50 credit.

**judgedoug**

ced1106 wrote:
Especially given that most boardgames can be easily purchased at the OLGS at a 30% discount, I don't pledge for non-miniature and sometimes miniature boardgames on KS. Mars Attacks base game retails for $75, and Miniature Market has the pre-order at $50. So your $100 pledge of a base game and $50 credit got you, for your $50 above base game from the OLGS... $50 credit.

To be fair the credit went to items that are discounted? And the retail boxes won't have any of the KS exclusives? I did the $150 pledge for Mars Attacks so it's an insane amount of stuff I'm getting, plus I got a bunch of the Antenociti's Workshop resin stuff because, well, AW = best.

**Albino Squirrel**

GrimDork wrote:
Hmm. Edwyns sword is better, but its very subtly curved back. Thicker martian limb seems more situated. I may try hotter water and perhaps a small clamp/clip splint before the ice water dip.

Thank you for testing it out. Please keep us posted! With all the thin weapons on the Dungeon Saga figures, I am very interested in knowing how easy they will be to bend back into proper shape.

**Talking Banana**

ced1106 wrote:
True. BGG isn't entirely happy that the Advanced Rules haven't been shown yet, either, not that they're developed for the public yet. OTOH, Jake *has* designed games with "non-gamer" requirements: Foundry games hired him to make games to sell Foundry miniatures, and Mantic had him design DKH with the restriction of using existing sprues. So far, the DS KS isn't a must-buy, so I think waiting for retail is entirely reasonable. Part of participating in KS is risk, and the risk of a unsatisfactory ruleset is certainly part of it. Especially given that most boardgames can be easily purchased at the OLGS at a 30% discount, I don't pledge for non-miniature and sometimes miniature boardgames on KS. Mars Attacks base game retails for $75, and Miniature Market has the pre-order at $50. So your $100 pledge of a base game and $50 credit got you, for your $50 above base game from the OLGS... $50 credit.

Wrong example. I did have an early bird, but in the end the Mars Attacks base game cost me a whopping $15. It's the best deal I've had on KS. I did spend some of the rest of that money on other (discounted) Mars Attacks product, but a good deal went towards discounted Deadzone material.

Here's what I bought and paid for with an Early Bird "The Invaders Arrive" $140 Pledge plus $80 worth of extras:

Free Giant Spider, other KS exclusives I can't remember - $0
Masters of Science - $15 (KS Exclusive)
Escalation Expansion - $50 (Best bundle deal)
Martian Mayhem - $50 (1 Robot, 1 Blaine, 5 Stealth Martians, 5 Martian Marines - worst bundle deal. Remains to be seen if worse than retail.)
Martian Deadzone Faction Deck - $5
3 Giant Ants - $20 (Discounted)
1 Deadzone Mat - $20 (Save one penny if you buy the same mat at miniature market now.)
1 Ruins DZ battlezone - $25 (Pretty sure this remains a good price)
Human faction deck - $5
Zombies - $15 (Good discount on these)

EFFECTIVE FINAL PRICE OF THE BASE GAME - $15

Yep, $15. Even if this game bombs and gets liquidated, retail will never beat that price. This is not typical Mantic savings, either, boardgame plastic or no. I don't expect to see another Mantic KS that becomes as good a deal as Mars Attacks again ever.

Total spent:
---------------------------------------------
$220

**Pacific**

ced1106 wrote:
Pacific wrote:
Gah (that's no-ones name, just a noise I've made!), really can't decide between this one and Heroquest. To make it more confusing, on the Gamezone site they describe the miniatures as being made out of 'resin plastic'..

Go research Jake Thorton, and you'll find a solid background in miniatures gaming. Go research Gamezone and you'll find no information other than an eight-sided cylindrical die. GZ has no experience in boardgame rules design. Unlike Mantic, GZ did not show any rules during their funding, and still haven't shown them. Freakin' A. This is supposed to be "HeroQuest", not a master's thesis or something. Rules from GZ should be upcoming sometime between September and October (suggesting that you're not receiving HeroQuest, but a game in name only), so maybe you'll get an idea of the rules before the DS funding is over. Or just wait until retail.

The D&D adventure system is *bleargh*. Not at all heroic, as the monsters get first initiative, and the game just keeps pounding on you, like some reverse grinding. It's one of those "oh, you shouldn't play by the mechanics, you should play it in the *spirit* of the game" games. OTOH, The miniatures are from the D&D miniatures line, and the tiles are great for 28mm adventuring. Wrath of Ashardalon has a fun adventure with villager AI, with each villager having a different AI to reflect their personality -- and you have to make sure they don't cause more problems than the monsters do! I would have *never* bought this game had I been on KS at the time. Value's not as good as KS, and the ruleset is poor.

Thanks for the post there Ced1106, that's a couple of interesting points you have made there.

I suppose my thinking was that Heroquest might just adopt the rules (or have something similar at least) to the original game. I know the guy who wrote Heroquest and Space Crusade (I forget his name) disappeared off the face of the earth after making those games, so I'm not sure where IP would fall in that kind of situation? Although some people have been commenting on the Spanish GZ forums that the rules are still up in the air, they still haven't seen anything..

On the other hand, I've played and enjoyed both Dreadball and Deadzone - well made games, and actually followed Jake Thornton for years (wasn't he involved with Necromunda? Pretty sure his name is there in the credits).

Hmm.. not sure what to do! I might just get everything!

**angelofvengeance**

$500K stretch goal: Infernal Crypts Expansion set

The new expansion pack, with a working title of Infernal Crypts, is an opportunity to take your party of heroes on an all-new adventure – and encounter an all-new enemy.

The expansion pack features:

- Rulebook featuring all you need to know to play with the denizens of the Abyss

- 6 New Scenarios with an all-new narrative

- New thick card rooms to add to your dungeon

- 2 elite ready-to-play colored plastic Abyssal Warriors large infantry with two hand weapons

- 4 ready-to-play colored plastic Lower Abyssal miniatures with hand weapons

- 2 ready-to-play colored plastic Lower Abyssal Magi spell-casters

- Demon Deck for commanding the forces of the Abyss

- Equipment and powerful Magic Items for your heroes to combat these new enemies

- Spells Cards

- Counters

The Infernal Crypt introduces the Abyssals, fiery portents of evil and a mass of teeth, claw and weapons made of otherworldly metal cold to the touch.

Let’s get to know them a little better…

Lower Abyssal

The warriors of the pit are organised into a hierarchy like any other army, but even the weakest amongst their number is a terrifying foe for any mortal to face. Given life by the energies of the most dark and powerful magic, these semi-corporeal creatures take on the shape of the worst nightmares of mortal races, literally shaped by the fears of the living. Red skinned and with vicious, predatory features, they are viciously capable fighters, wielding close combat weapons.

Lower Abyssal Magi

Nicknamed Magi by the order of the Ardent Flame, these Lower Abyssals are minor spell-casters who manifest their hatred in bolts of red hot fury. They launch them from their hands, incinerating any who come into contact.

Abyssal Warriors

The existence of an Abyssal Warrior is one governed by constant violence and bloodshed, even amongst themselves. Those who rise to the top of the pile, by dint of cunning, martial prowess or most likely a combination of the two, will earn the right to don ceremonial armour and wield more powerful weapons. The armour is largely cosmetic due to the specific alchemy of the creatures, but serves the purpose of marking out these superior examples of the Abyssal Warrior breed, both to their enemies and their comrades.

we hit this stretch goal, we will be able to produce the second expansion pack for Dungeon Saga – Infernal Crypts.

Not only do you get an all-new adventure to play through with your party, as well as new Dungeon Tiles, you also get access to new equipment and magic items to customise your heroes to greater levels of power.

This set will be available as an Optional Add-on for $25.

If we continue to get more funding, then we’ll be able to add more models to the set, much in the same way as we were able to in The Warlord of Galahir, which was developed from the same starting contents into the monstrous pack of Greenskins we have now!

Can only bode well for Infernal Crypts...

f course, we’re not done with adding even more freebies in your Dungeon Master pledge, so stay tuned – just over 1 week to go until the end!
And finally…

We are introducing two new pledge levels on the weekend:

Design your own character!

Ever wanted to build your own hero? Fancied a model of your very own villain? With this new pledge level you will get a Dungeon Master pledge level and get to build your very own character! You’ll be involved in the design, from background and concept to final painted model, and get a finely detailed resin model at the end of the process, which can be just yours or offered to other Kickstarter backers at your discretion!

Painted Pledge!

Quite simply, you’ll get a Dungeon Master pledge level painted, including any future stretch goals. The more we fund the better value it gets. This means that you can pick a colour scheme and we’ll do all the work for you. If you can’t paint or want to paint your set and you haven’t got the time, you can relax knowing a fully painted set will be on its way to you with a Painted Pledge.

These pledge levels will go live on Saturday 23rd August – if you’re interested and would like more information, please do get in touch via the Kickstarter Messages. These will be limited in number and likely to go live around 5:30-6:00pm BST.

**timetowaste85**

Abyssals are being shown now. I think they've got kind of a Japanese Oni look to them personally, and I'm not a huge fan. Seeing as this is their plan for the lesser ones, I'm going to continue with my plan to use GW ones for the lessers. I'm sure others will love this style. But I don't.

**BobtheInquisitor**

When they stretch goal it into twelve figures, I'll be a lot more interested.

Are the expansions all included in the hundred dollar pledge?

**angelofvengeance**

timetowaste85 wrote:
Abyssals are being shown now. I think they've got kind of a Japanese Oni look to them personally, and I'm not a huge fan. Seeing as this is their plan for the lesser ones, I'm going to continue with my plan to use GW ones for the lessers. I'm sure others will love this style. But I don't.

Try these then buddy

**scarletsquig**

^ I can't recommend Heresy enough, I've only ever made one order from them, but it was delivered with a personalized humorous message and a free lollipop in the package. Pure win.

Oh, and Mars Attacks was sweet, best Mantic KS ever. I bought $125 of Deadzone terrain at KS prices with the credit, then got the rest of the stuff (retail box + KS bonuses, 68 minis total) for $15.

**angelofvengeance**

scarletsquig wrote:
^ I can't recommend Heresy enough, I've only ever made one order from them, but it was delivered with a personalized humorous message and a free lollipop in the package. Pure win.

Oh, and Mars Attacks was sweet, best Mantic KS ever. I bought $125 of Deadzone terrain at KS prices with the credit, then got the rest of the stuff (retail box + KS bonuses, 68 minis total) for $15.

I've bought fething loads of stuff from Andy! Trolls, Badass doggies, creepy "The Descent" style beasties, some troopers for a renegade IG squad or two.
If you want some genuinely evil looking Goblins have at his Goblin Aid minis (Unlocked as a stretch goal at £18K or available at his store) Some really great looking stuff.

**Edit- I should warn you, the Netherlord might need a VERY LARGE chamber to dwell in for Dungeon Saga lol.

**Sirio**

I like the concepts from Mantic, hope they have some sculpts ready too however, after the Kings of War experience, I opt to wait first. I'm pretty sure these figs will bring even more people in however!