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AllSeeingSkink wrote:If could be doing something more subtle though. The suit could just be sensing when the load path is not aligned through the foot at an angle that will keep the person from failing over and make minor adjustments so the wearer can better maintain grip. Wouldn't stop a person falling over and it wouldn't be able to stand by itself, but if you started to fall and went to save yourself or were sliding down a steep embankment trying not to fall over, it would assist you in that.

I dunno, I still see a big risk of handicapping the wearer's movement - even if it just slows it down "for safety". The Seraphim for example are using martial arts in melee; they'd have to move quick and have full control over their bodies.
It seems like a huge risk to take just to wear high heels. I mean ... it's 40k, but still ...

That's just my interpretation of how the systems would work, tho!

Unyielding Hunger wrote:I'm sorry ladies, but that style is not a mandate of the God Emperor of Mankind.

Filthy, heretical lies!

Unyielding Hunger wrote:Oh how I wish there was a more modern version without the boobplate and heels.

None of the minis has high heels, actually. For some reason people just assume they do. I blame the fan art and that 2E cover that was posted above.

As for the boob plate - funny thing, but against lasers and armour-piercing rounds it actually protects better than a flat surface, whilst deflected blows will either be caught by a reinforced area (sternum, "corset" dust-cover), or the plate gorget around their necks, or harmlessly slide off into the air, having expended much of their kinetic energy on the first impact.

Plus, the design was commissioned by Vandire, who was a perv. Plus, it serves to reinforce the image of "angelic servants" and that the Ecclesiarchy's standing army does not break the Decree Passive (no men under arms).

Yes, I do not believe GW actually considered any of this when they were designing them - but still you can find multiple in-universe explanations that render it sensible. The real reason was probably a mixture of what you said about the 80s, and/or that otherwise it might be hard to actually identify them as female, given the small size of the minis.

Unyielding Hunger wrote:Heck, I picked up some Sisters just recently, and I think I see rivets on the cloak.

Those are buttons, actually. You can see holes for them on the other side. I guess it's supposed to close like a normal robe when not wearing armour, but it opens up for better manoeuverability in the battlefield.


See how the sleeves would normally extend below the elbows, for example? That part is unbuttoned, however, allowing the arm to bend properly and letting the cloth to part and flow over on either side. Meanwhile, the "apron" has holes on either side so that it can be closed with the buttons from the "cloak", as all the cloth you see here is actually a single robe.

Lord Castellan wrote:
This will always be the best Witch Hunters/Inquisition pic:

I miss the days when Codex cover art looked like a heavy metal album :(


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 Happyjew wrote:
I only have 1 displeasing aesthetic of 40K.
This thing:

Spoiler:

Oh hey, my profile pic.

CthuluIsSpy wrote:I miss the days when Codex cover art looked like a heavy metal album :(

Including the font.

That is a very very col pic

and a fun model

MWHistorian wrote:As a former SOB player, I agree on the exo's. Mine were always Whirlwinds with frescos painted on them and extra bling.

Nice idea. I might have to do some combining when it comes to having to build a few of those. Whirlwinds with the Exorcist's iconography panels would be pretty sweet.

Lynata wrote:Filthy, heretical lies!

Show me where every sister has to have that same god ugly haircut.

Lynata wrote:None of the minis has high heels, actually. For some reason people just assume they do. I blame the fan art and that 2E cover that was posted above.

As for the boob plate - funny thing, but against lasers and armour-piercing rounds it actually protects better than a flat surface, whilst deflected blows will either be caught by a reinforced area (sternum, "corset" dust-cover), or the plate gorget around their necks, or harmlessly slide off into the air, having expended much of their kinetic energy on the first impact.

Plus, the design was commissioned by Vandire, who was a perv. Plus, it serves to reinforce the image of "angelic servants" and that the Ecclesiarchy's standing army does not break the Decree Passive (no men under arms).

Yes, I do not believe GW actually considered any of this when they were designing them - but still you can find multiple in-universe explanations that render it sensible. The real reason was probably a mixture of what you said about the 80s, and/or that otherwise it might be hard to actually identify them as female, given the small size of the minis.

Those are buttons, actually. You can see holes for them on the other side. I guess it's supposed to close like a normal robe when not wearing armour, but it opens up for better manoeuverability in the battlefield.

Spoiler:

See how the sleeves would normally extend below the elbows, for example? That part is unbuttoned, however, allowing the arm to bend properly and letting the cloth to part and flow over on either side. Meanwhile, the "apron" has holes on either side so that it can be closed with the buttons from the "cloak", as all the cloth you see here is actually a single robe.

Fair enough on the heels. Most art does have them in heels, but now that I get home, I can see I was wrong. Vandire was probably the greatest perverted dictator that ever lived (in the wrong way) But even then, I don't get a sense of "Angelic Servant" out of that armor. It's more of a "Oversexed fiercely celibate woman who spends far too much maintaining a poor image that will inevitably lead to lustful male drama, when she should be spending more time worshiping the Emperor, burning heretics, or practicing her heavy bolter aim on heretics running away down range." I am a fan of practicality and I fully plan on putting my girls in marine armor as I just can't get past the leather corset look, suitably emblazoned with SoB iconography of course, though I need to come up with an enlarged Sabbat helm because these old pewter ones are a bit small for some press mold cosmetics. As for the button thing, I didn't even think of that. Excellent point, and it does help drive home the point of robed nuns when they aren't out in the warzone.

@FrozenOcean: Yeah but 40k doesn't have super big boobs on all the females. If anything i feel GW is about as family friendly as they can get since they started trying to be (after the dark eldar slave girls period ;P).

I was always of the idea that tallarn desert raiders were more middle eastern than white. Also while we're at it we know tau are basically space asians and they have blue skin and erm a weird nose crevice, bird like mercenary buddies (kroot), battlesuits and bug buddies (vespid). If anything i would've loved to see more auxiliary races in an supplement or something. Too bad it'll be years before that's a possibility again.

I never specifically think of slaanesh as the 'god of sex'. It's just more fun thinking that and much sillier. I mean i know he's the prince of excess but loud music just seems a little silly. Also i think rave parties are the perfect example of slaanesh besides crazy cult followings. I mean loud music, drugs, sex and lots of glow sticks. I'm pretty sure that's what slaanesh is about.

Lynata and Frozen Ocean are men. My universe is shattered. Noooo. [/deadpan sarcasm]

Unyielding Hunger wrote:5. Certain terrible vehicle exit locations. As wonderful as the models are in general, I would love to see conversions that would remove those issues of friendly fire.
4. Lack of bodily protection. Gentlemen (and occasionally Ladies), you are among the finest tacticians your respective faction can produce, be it T'au, Adeptas Astartes, Eldar, or even Ork (Especially Ork.). Bring appropriate full body armor and helmet to prevent quick and immediate death upon the battlefield.

Oh, sir, honestly, I wish I could[i] rock up to my games in full power armour. Really, I do.

For the following 3 responses, I apologize to all the veteran SoB players, especially SisterSydney and Furyou Miku. I surrender myself to your flamers for summary execution for heresy.

3. Exorcists. I would perfer a far better pun than a couple ladies who can play some pretty explosive solos.
2. Sisters of Battle haircuts. I'm sorry ladies, but that style is not a mandate of the God Emperor of Mankind. Feel free to show some minor individuality as long as you punish yourself appropriately for it later.
1. Adepta Sororitas armor. Oh how I wish there was a more modern version without the boobplate and heels. I can understand the flair they were going for in the 80s, but that armor just does not look like it can be rated at 4+ save, let alone 3+. Heck, I picked up some Sisters just recently, and I think I see rivets on the cloak.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Lynata and Frozen Ocean are men. My universe is shattered. Noooo. [/deadpan sarcasm]

Was watching 'Nicolas Cage Losing His Sh*t' on youtube. I imagine that as one of our realizations. Try not to go crazy and eat poop .

Besides you're british so sarcasm is like second nature to you.

---------------

I suppose if i should add something to aesthetics i don't like is everything needs a mother f**king skull on it. You count like 5 freaking skulls on a guardsmen alone (gun insignia, belt, helmet, shoulder pad and possibly more) and i don't even think that's the most. Don't get me wrong grim dark and all that but now we have fantasy with those mortarches and crap that are filled with skulls. They look like a freaking skull gum-ball machine.

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Arkhan-the-Black

I'm also unsure whether to laugh at the 'khorne lord of skulls' or feel bad over it. On one hand it's so over the top and on the other it just seems so dumb.

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Chaos-Space-Marines-Khorne-Lord-of-Skulls

Banners on some soldiers. I feel like banners mounted on a soldier are just stupid. How do they get through buildings as large as they are? It's kind of cool but impractical. Not to mention what if the banner actually obscures their vision by going over their face in the wind or something. I also imagine it's like a freaking sail-boat whenever a strong wind is blowing. They probably struggle to balance themselves and prevent being blown away.

The whole "Only White Male" thing is supposed to be really disturbing. That and other WWII Germany esque imagery is used to intentionally invoke the sense that there is something seriously wrong with the Imperium if these are the only people we ever really see.

The imperium is still a totalitarian militaristic space theocracy, not the good guys.

 Bronzefists42 wrote:
The whole "Only White Male" thing is supposed to be really disturbing. That and other WWII Germany esque imagery is used to intentionally invoke the sense that there is something seriously wrong with the Imperium if these are the only people we ever really see.

The imperium is still a totalitarian militaristic space theocracy, not the good guys.

Warhammer in general rips off other IP's and takes things out of history and such because they don't have the greatest imagination (in many cases). I think it's less them trying to throw out that image and more them following historical pictures so much they accidentally throw out that feeling.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Oh, sir, honestly, I wish I could rock up to my games in full power armour. Really, I do.

I can't tell, is that sarcasm or are you actually agreeing with me? Anyhow, for a little extra clarity, I mostly was just picking on the Orks with the armor remark. Guardsmen get flak armor, which is pitiful for what it is, but at least it is a full uniform. I don't really know how they justify Orks getting the basic 6+ for standard clothing or even no clothing at all.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
On point #2: white hair. Look, people. Ephrael Stern had white hair because she was the Daemonifuge. White dye jobs are not standard issue amongst the Adepta Sororitas! Sadly, since the original codex, it seems that the studio painting team have decided to go with white hair as well, which just reinforces this silly idea. Sisters do NOT have to have white hair!

On the armour: I think part of the reason people think it would struggle to provide a 4+ save is because of the over-sized heads. Remember, the Sisters models are the same size as the Space Marine models of their time, even though the Sisters themselves are smaller. Sororitas Power Armour is not skin tight. It is thick, armoured plate with mechanical support. Godwyn De'az bolters are not miniature. They are actually longer than Astartes bolters in some cases. If you look at bolters contemporary to when the Sisters were released, the Marines' bolters look like SMGs in comparison.

It is due to these reasons that I reckon that a fully armoured Battle Sister is roughly the same size as a fully armoured Space Marine - because the armour itself is not skin tight to the wearer, but built around them... That's why you can have Sisters novices in power armour, even though their youth makes them smaller than full Battle Sisters - the difference in size is made up by a support frame inside the armour.

The plastic Sisters heads off the Immolator sprue are the same size as each other AND the standard tactical marine helmet AND the standard bare space marine baldy head.

If you use the front half-torso out of the Immolator kit to build a model, you have to use Guardian legs and a fantasy Elf head or it it looks like they're a bobblehead in flare trousers.

As for the armour, half joking, half serious, because honestly, walking around in a badass suit of power armour (with internal cooling or heating system!) would be awesome. But also patently ridiculous.

 Furyou Miko wrote:


On point #2: white hair. Look, people. Ephrael Stern had white hair because she was the Daemonifuge. White dye jobs are not standard issue amongst the Adepta Sororitas! Sadly, since the original codex, it seems that the studio painting team have decided to go with white hair as well, which just reinforces this silly idea. Sisters do NOT have to have white hair!

On the armour: I think part of the reason people think it would struggle to provide a 4+ save is because of the over-sized heads. Remember, the Sisters models are the same size as the Space Marine models of their time, even though the Sisters themselves are smaller. Sororitas Power Armour is not skin tight. It is thick, armoured plate with mechanical support. Godwyn De'az bolters are not miniature. They are actually longer than Astartes bolters in some cases. If you look at bolters contemporary to when the Sisters were released, the Marines' bolters look like SMGs in comparison.

It is due to these reasons that I reckon that a fully armoured Battle Sister is roughly the same size as a fully armoured Space Marine - because the armour itself is not skin tight to the wearer, but built around them... That's why you can have Sisters novices in power armour, even though their youth makes them smaller than full Battle Sisters - the difference in size is made up by a support frame inside the armour.

As for the white hair IRC The Order of the Martyred Lady is the only order that dose the white hair and has become the postergirl order for the SoB.

For the armor I believe that these 2 images are probably one of the best one's for showcasing the SoB power armor.

http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110404052917/warhammer40k/images/b/b8/840914-sister_of_battle_color_large.jpg
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-5XSpb9HujcU/URJjRsQJyaI/AAAAAAAAADA/XTkgBWcucQY/s1600/sisters-barge.jpg

 Bronzefists42 wrote:
The whole "Only White Male" thing is supposed to be really disturbing. That and other WWII Germany esque imagery is used to intentionally invoke the sense that there is something seriously wrong with the Imperium if these are the only people we ever really see.

The imperium is still a totalitarian militaristic space theocracy, not the good guys.

Actually, there isn't an "only white male" thing; the studio has released black guardsmen before.
In fact, in the 4th edition rule book, there's a Mister T conversion.

I suspect it has more to do with logistics than with race; the painting team has to meet a deadline, and varying the skin tones all the time would take too long.


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 Unyielding Hunger wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Oh, sir, honestly, I wish I could rock up to my games in full power armour. Really, I do.

I can't tell, is that sarcasm or are you actually agreeing with me? Anyhow, for a little extra clarity, I mostly was just picking on the Orks with the armor remark. Guardsmen get flak armor, which is pitiful for what it is, but at least it is a full uniform. I don't really know how they justify Orks getting the basic 6+ for standard clothing or even no clothing at all.

.

Same reason why Catachans get 5+ saves from tank tops; true grit.

 Lynata wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:If could be doing something more subtle though. The suit could just be sensing when the load path is not aligned through the foot at an angle that will keep the person from failing over and make minor adjustments so the wearer can better maintain grip. Wouldn't stop a person falling over and it wouldn't be able to stand by itself, but if you started to fall and went to save yourself or were sliding down a steep embankment trying not to fall over, it would assist you in that.

I dunno, I still see a big risk of handicapping the wearer's movement - even if it just slows it down "for safety". The Seraphim for example are using martial arts in melee; they'd have to move quick and have full control over their bodies.
It seems like a huge risk to take just to wear high heels. I mean ... it's 40k, but still ...

That's just my interpretation of how the systems would work, tho!

Nah, what I'm describing wouldn't stop you doing anything unless that thing was losing traction and slipping over. Regardless of what sort of acrobatics you're doing, the force should be going through your foot at an angle no greater than friction will allow, the magical system smart enough to figure out what that angle is would stop you going beyond it, thus let you move as fast and agile as you possibly can.

It wouldn't stop you falling over, it'd just widen the band on the limit of falling over and let you dance closer to that limit. If you're an idiot you'd still fall over

 Furyou Miko wrote:
As for the armour, half joking, half serious, because honestly, walking around in a badass suit of power armour (with internal cooling or heating system!) would be awesome. But also patently ridiculous.

Kinda like this?


Which brings up a point. Models like this are nice. When GW changes an appearance drastically, it makes it harder to conform older models to the new aesthetic.

That model clearly doesn't have enough bling to be a proper space marine.

 Unyielding Hunger wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
As for the armour, half joking, half serious, because honestly, walking around in a badass suit of power armour (with internal cooling or heating system!) would be awesome. But also patently ridiculous.

Kinda like this?


Which brings up a point. Models like this are nice. When GW changes an appearance drastically, it makes it harder to conform older models to the new aesthetic.

I swear if I ever go CSM, I'm going to buy as many of those guys as I can find

Personally, I'm a fan of Andrea Uderzo's SoB artworks:



I especially love the little laser pointers (built into and replacing the ironsights, which by themselves would be too big to be of any help when aiming) and guncams on the bolters. Awesome detail.

As for the hair, personally I am of the opinion that a uniform haircut and hair colour are strengthening the perception of strict discipline and a rigidly reglemented lifestyle. The most dominant hair colour only seems to be white because the Order of Our Martyred Lady gets featured so often (when the majority of the Major Orders has black hair). I recall people claiming it is a reference to Saint Dominica's hair supposedly having turned white from her conversation with the Emperor, but I've never actually seen that in the fluff myself, so maybe that is just hearsay. It is kind of a cool idea, though.

An interesting detail is that they originally had black hair before they switched over to the current colour scheme (in-character, not a retcon). The studio reason was probably just the painters being convinced that white hair would make a good contrast.

I see no problem with Minor Orders diverging from that pattern, though - even if I like to imagine such relaxed regulations would be considered "decadent" by the more hardcore/conservative members of the two Primary Convents (you know, the gals who also argued against using the Repressor ).

Unyielding HungerMade in us wrote:Most art does have them in heels

Fan- and licensee art, yeah. GW themselves has actually been fairly consistently with the no-heels thing - with the sole exception of the aforementioned 2E cover.

Here's a collection of all artworks from the 2E and 3E codices (again, excepting the 2E cover):
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img801/3700/ofc0.jpg
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img28/7473/90nj.jpg


Regarding Orks and Catachans, it's also important to keep in mind that the abstraction built into the system may skewer perception. A hit is not always a headshot. Someone who is "killed" does not actually have to be dead. And someone who succeeds on their Toughness save does not have to be uninjured. As CthuluIsSpy said: True Grit.

It's the same with the Sisters' 6++ invul save - making it doesn't have to mean they miraculously survived that tank cannon round. Maybe it just means it exploded close enough to her that by all rights she should be dead, but her willpower keeps her on her toes, fighting on ... and simply dying from blood loss a little bit later.

1. Imperial buildings: they look like gak.
2. Space Wolves: they've got marines riding big wolves, and santa's sleigh tuned by vikings. WTF.
3. Moar Skulls. Cause we're the good guys. Or the bad guys. Skulls for everyone.
4. Imperial Knight: for such an expensive killing machine, it's just ugly
5. Nemesis Dreadknight: that thing is awful and slowed by design.


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 Mythra wrote:
The skulls on everything gets silly. Chaos I can see but why does the imperium have a skull fetish?

Skull F.. fetish ?
I wonder...

 Lynata wrote:
Personally, I'm a fan of Andrea Uderzo's SoB artworks:

Spoiler:

I especially love the little laser pointers (built into and replacing the ironsights, which by themselves would be too big to be of any help when aiming) and guncams on the bolters. Awesome detail.

Ooh those are nice.
I would like her to design the next Codex cover...if it ever happens :/


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 Mythra wrote:
Tau chicken feet battle suits. Big and top hvy and itty bitty funny feet.

The DK baby carrier has to annoy everyone. I bought this one as soon as I saw it.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/469402-.html

The skulls on everything gets silly. Chaos I can see but why does the imperium have a skull fetish?

Couple of reasons -

The Imperium of Man is all about humanity, and when you strip away the flesh all human skulls look pretty much the same.
Ergo, the ideal symbol for them would be a skull, as that represents all of humanity.

The Imperium of Man also takes heavy influence from the Catholic Church, which tends to use some morbid imagery

Case in point, the Sedlec Ossuary of Prague :

That is strangely hypnotic and beautiful. Do people really hate the skulls that much? Some places are a little odd, but the Wall of Martyrs is built on the sanctified bones of dead heroes of the Imperium, and I see the skulls build into some buildings as just being particularly venerated staff.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

That is the most fething metal church I've ever seen. You just know the priest has a smoke machine behind the altar and the church organ is accompanied by wailing electric guitars.

The imperium is still a totalitarian militaristic space theocracy, not the good guys

This is why the setting is "GrimDark". When Nazi-wannabes are the good guys, you know gak is fethed up.

CthuluIsSpy wrote:I swear if I ever go CSM, I'm going to buy as many of those guys as I can find

Ouch. Good luck. I had one years ago and he has been lost to the sands of time. I wanted one for nostalgia, but the price they go for on EBay is typically ridiculous.

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:

CthuluIsSpy wrote:I swear if I ever go CSM, I'm going to buy as many of those guys as I can find

Ouch. Good luck. I had one years ago and he has been lost to the sands of time. I wanted one for nostalgia, but the price they go for on EBay is typically ridiculous.

I had two that I sold to Spiky Bits. They might still have them for sale.

 Psienesis wrote:

The imperium is still a totalitarian militaristic space theocracy, not the good guys

This is why the setting is "GrimDark". When Nazi-wannabes are the good guys, you know gak is fethed up.

I hereby nominate this to be the post of the day.

1) Guns on nids (the kind they hold like humes)
2) Crisis suits. (especially the commander one with the ugly 45degree angle arm joint)
3) new daemonettes
4) Imperial vehicles
5) Imperial building kits.

The thing i dont like is that the daemonettes and slaneesh all look to female for me when its described as being both.

i just dont see it.

Boneville wrote:

i just dont see it.

Its under the loincloth