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 Vermis wrote:
How insecure do you have to be

Ahh... Projection. On Dakka. How refreshing.

Every time someone on here says they like 7th, they get ten guys jumping on them to lecture them about how it's their fault GW sucks now because if they quit like all the cool kids, GW would change their business practices.

Which is BS of course, and is a product of the current generation's way over-inflated sense of self that they think they're so important that them quitting something is going to 'change the system' because they're 'voting with their dollars' or whatever nonsense. All that will happen is GW stuff will get MORE expensive to make up for the lost sales from all the people who switch to Infinity so they can come to the FLGS on 40K night and lecture people and bitch that there's no table for Infinity on 40K night.

Just sick of the same guys we have to put up with at the FLGS going online and talking the same gak. We've heard it all before. You used to like GW, now you don't. Congratulations.

As someone who's been playing GW games off and on for over 20 years, we were fine before you guys and we'll be fine after.

 OldSkoolGoff wrote:

 Vermis wrote:
How insecure do you have to be

Ahh... Projection. On Dakka. How refreshing.

Every time someone on here says they like 7th, they get ten guys jumping on them to lecture them about how it's their fault GW sucks now because if they quit like all the cool kids, GW would change their business practices.

Which is BS of course, and is a product of the current generation's way over-inflated sense of self that they think they're so important that them quitting something is going to 'change the system' because they're 'voting with their dollars' or whatever nonsense. All that will happen is GW stuff will get MORE expensive to make up for the lost sales from all the people who switch to Infinity so they can come to the FLGS on 40K night and lecture people and bitch that there's no table for Infinity on 40K night.

Just sick of the same guys we have to put up with at the FLGS going online and talking the same gak. We've heard it all before. You used to like GW, now you don't. Congratulations.

As someone who's been playing GW games off and on for over 20 years, we were fine before you guys and we'll be fine after.

Enjoy those rising prices then.
But this is a capitalist economy and voting with your wallet is a perfectly okay thing to do. You have this strange notion that we should just accept what we're given whether we like it or not and keep our mouths shut.
Sorry, but no. This is a free society and if I don't like a product, I'll voice my opinion about that product. If GW wants my money, they have to cater to my wants. If they don't fulfill those wants, I take my money elsewhere. Judging by the latest two financial reports, I'm not the only one doing so.
It's GW's job to make money and to do that they need to sell what people want. They're not doing that. They're just selling what they want to make and assume that's what people want.

 MWHistorian wrote:

Enjoy those rising prices then.
But this is a capitalist economy and voting with your wallet is a perfectly okay thing to do. You have this strange notion that we should just accept what we're given whether we like it or not and keep our mouths shut.
Sorry, but no. This is a free society and if I don't like a product, I'll voice my opinion about that product. If GW wants my money, they have to cater to my wants. If they don't fulfill those wants, I take my money elsewhere. Judging by the latest two financial reports, I'm not the only one doing so.
It's GW's job to make money and to do that they need to sell what people want. They're not doing that. They're just selling what they want to make and assume that's what people want.

Yes it's a perfectly OK thing to do. You've done it now. Move on. You don't have to accept anything. Just stop playing 40k and go do something else. Stop trying to ruin it for everyone else.

Find something else to talk about.

 MWHistorian wrote:


I showed many people stating exactly why they left and all you have is a biased opinion with nothing to back it up.

Firstly it´s not an opinion to state an observation of something that actually happens, on other forums aswell. Secondly, I don´t take notes everytime I encounter something on the internet so yeah, can´t back it up. But I don´t feel a need to back it up anyway, since I´ve seen it myself and I know it happens and that´s enough for me in this case. But no need to bicker about people behaving like I described; I´ve seen it happen many times and nothing will change that. Even if you refuse to accept such behaviour takes place, it does.

Another thing that came to mind, I wonder why some feel the need to make such a big deal about quitting a game. If you´re playing another game anyways and are happy with it, just quit and be done with it. Why announce it allround haha, especially in a continous manner.

Anyway, I guess we´ll just have to wait and see if GW continues to exist normally and things go on like they have for 10 years, or if the "doom of GW if they dont do what we want" -takes place. Pretty sure it´s the former, but hey, let´s wait and see.

 RunicFIN wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:


I showed many people stating exactly why they left and all you have is a biased opinion with nothing to back it up.

Firstly it´s not an opinion to state an observation of something that actually happens, on other forums aswell. Secondly, I don´t take notes everytime I encounter something on the internet so yeah, can´t back it up. But I got no need to bicker about people behaving like I described; I´ve seen it happen many times and nothing will change that. Even if you refuse to accept such behaviour takes place, it does.

Another thing that came to mind, I wonder why some feel the need to make such a big deal about quitting a game. If you´re playing another game anyways and are happy with it, just quit and be done with it. Why announce it allround haha.

Same reason the kids who listened to Green Day made a big deal about it when they discovered Black Flag and FEAR. Because what's the point in being awesome if no one else knows about it? If you weren't so mainsteam you'd totally get it.

But but... I play Warmachine too.

40k night here is a ghost town, while warmachine night has around 25 players. I find it hard to believe that all the tables are occupied on 40k night. Enjoy those rising prices .

Twitter campaign? For models? I think wargamers grossly overestimate how large the hobby is.. or how large GW is.

It's a really tiny hobby, just because it takes up a large portion of our incomes doesn't make it very noticeable.

 OldSkoolGoff wrote:


Yes it's a perfectly OK thing to do. You've done it now. Move on. You don't have to accept anything. Just stop playing 40k and go do something else. Stop trying to ruin it for everyone else.

Find something else to talk about.

Why? What impact does he talking about it has on your enjoyment of the game?

If he is saying something that isn't true, then correct him, otherwise all you guys sound like you're trying to get him to shut up just because you don't like what he is saying.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 OldSkoolGoff wrote:

Same reason the kids who listened to Green Day made a big deal about it when they discovered Black Flag and FEAR. Because what's the point in being awesome if no one else knows about it? If you weren't so mainsteam you'd totally get it.

And here come the ad-hominem attacks... You guys really don't have any other arguments do you?

PhantomViper wrote:

 OldSkoolGoff wrote:


Yes it's a perfectly OK thing to do. You've done it now. Move on. You don't have to accept anything. Just stop playing 40k and go do something else. Stop trying to ruin it for everyone else.

Find something else to talk about.

Why? What impact does he talking about it has on your enjoyment of the game?

If he is saying something that isn't true, then correct him, otherwise all you guys sound like you're trying to get him to shut up just because you don't like what he is saying.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 OldSkoolGoff wrote:

Same reason the kids who listened to Green Day made a big deal about it when they discovered Black Flag and FEAR. Because what's the point in being awesome if no one else knows about it? If you weren't so mainsteam you'd totally get it.

And here come the ad-hominem attacks... You guys really don't have any other arguments do you?

I think that's a big reason. If I didn't have people telling GW critics to shut up and go away, I would have have actually shut up and gone away long ago.
And I've come to expect little more than personal attacks from GW apologists. It's all they got.

PhantomViper wrote:
If he is saying something that isn't true, then correct him, otherwise all you guys sound like you're trying to get him to shut up just because you don't like what he is saying.

Maybe you don´t like what he is saying and you´re trying to make him shut up?

 MWHistorian wrote:

And I've come to expect little more than personal attacks from GW apologists. It's all they got.

I like how you just mocked people who like GW while previously saying no one ever does that, and you even talk about "GW apologists" like they are inferior people. You´re 100% elitistic and paradoxical now, has to be one of the greatest cases of "talked myself into a bag" - I´ve seen in a long time. It´s made even better by the fact that all you have done is personal attacks in this thread. Double paradox award. You will probably try to squirm away from this with some pseudointellectual counterargument but you just did the exact thing I was talking about and nothing will change that until the end of time and space.

And well, this comment really sums your view on things up perfectly. But have fun hating on GW and people who like GW and their games ( which is, again, what you just undeniably factually did... )

 RunicFIN wrote:

PhantomViper wrote:
If he is saying something that isn't true, then correct him, otherwise all you guys sound like you're trying to get him to shut up just because you don't like what he is saying.

Maybe you don´t like what he is saying and you´re trying to make him shut up?

Personal attacks, why no, that's not usually liked.

You basically don´t like GW and you think people who do are inferior ( as they got nothing else than personal insults according to you, while many people in this thread alone have given many other valid reasons and not a single personal attack. )

We get it already.

 RunicFIN wrote:
You basically don´t like GW and you think people who do are inferior ( as they got nothing else than personal insults according to you, while many people in this thread alone have given many other valid reasons and not a single personal attack. )

We get it already.

Apparently you don't because you think people are criticizing GW out of some hipster elitism. No, I'm angry that a game I love and spent over 20 years with has turned to crap and the company can't be bothered to do anything about it. On top of that I get GW apologists criticizing me personally because I find faults in their game.
(And pointing out personal attacks isn't a personal attack on the person doing the insulting.)

Believe me, we get it. Just the last 2 pages of your posts:

"I wish you the best of luck and I hope you find a good time in a game that more suits your style of play. (I hope you go Warmachine because I happen to love that game.)"

"And compared to the rest of the wargaming hobby, GW kinda sucks."

"Warmachine sounds a lot more like what you're looking for.
I have no doubt that if GW had kept that store open, I'd still be playing 40k now."

"If only there was a thread specifically for people listing the exact reasons for leaving 40k."

"Well, 7th hasn't been good for GW."

"If you want tactics, you're playing the wrong game. 40k is complex but shallow."

"That's a very elitist attitude. When GW goes under, don't wonder why."

"That's why so many have left the game. And there is more skill envolved in other war games than gw games."

Talk about biased opinions. But hey, all opinions are biased... And no, this is not a personal attack. Just pointing out that I´ve seen you post and the vibe above is present almost always. I´m not a GW apologist, I´m quite aware of the bad bits since I´ve played both Warhammer and WARMACHINE for 10 years ( 40k way longer. ) But I´m quite fine with 40K as a game and I find it´s going in a better direction at the moment. I just find the doomsayers funny, because like I said before, this same old song has been sang for 10 years and it never seems to stop, yet there are more players now than there ever have been. GW isn´t gonna go under in ages, probably not during my lifetime and I find it hilarious that people think so. Sure they are having a difficult time right now, so will every other game manufacturer when they become as big. All big companies occassionally have trouble - it´s way easier to grow when your company is smaller. It´s just the way it really is.
And yeah, fair enough regarding the last bit you said.

Runic is 100% bang on.

This is just another stupid XBOX vs Playstation turf war. I like GW games, I like some other games too. There's room for both.

But there will always be a small, vocal minority, that can't shut up about GW even though they claim not to even play GW games anymore.

 RunicFIN wrote:
Believe me, we get it. Just the last 2 pages of your posts:

"I wish you the best of luck and I hope you find a good time in a game that more suits your style of play. (I hope you go Warmachine because I happen to love that game.)"

"And compared to the rest of the wargaming hobby, GW kinda sucks."

"Warmachine sounds a lot more like what you're looking for.
I have no doubt that if GW had kept that store open, I'd still be playing 40k now."

"If only there was a thread specifically for people listing the exact reasons for leaving 40k."

"Well, 7th hasn't been good for GW."

"If you want tactics, you're playing the wrong game. 40k is complex but shallow."

"That's a very elitist attitude. When GW goes under, don't wonder why."

"That's why so many have left the game. And there is more skill envolved in other war games than gw games."

Talk about biased opinions. But hey, all opinions are biased...

And yeah, fair enough regarding the last bit you said.

I have strong opinions, yes. Since when is that a crime? But what I don't do is insult anyone for liking 40k. I receive insults though.
Also, I never realized that voicing an opinion on a public forum was so offensive to you.
When I usually speak up its when someone says something ignorant like "people hate on GW just because it's cool to hate on GW." Ignorance if offensive to me. What they're saying is an opinion, but its one based on false assumptions. I try to correct them on the reasons people are leaving in hopes that they'll see what's wrong and maybe try to understand and keep people from leaving. AKA, fix the game/community. A healthy gamer community is good for everyone. But ignoring problems isn't healthy.

Didn´t say it´s a crime. You said "we" don´t get it, I just pointed out that we ( or atleast I ) do.

 RunicFIN wrote:
Didn´t say it´s a crime. You said "we" don´t get it, I just pointed out that we do.

So, I won't hear "GW haters just hating cause it's cool" anymore?
Sweet!
EDIT:
Oh, wait, I just read this. My work continues...

I agree custom. learning new strategies and tactics however is not balencing the game, it is becoming a better player and learning to adapt.
the players who are complaining about the rules now are the ones who were adept at working with the broken rules of previous editions and are mad that their pet exploits no longer work and are unwilling to learn new ones or unwilling to learn to win without having to rely on those crutches.
I agree with you 100% though.

Like I said before, I´ve seen it happen and it does. How does me saying your strong opinions aren´t crime relate to people behaving the way I describe?

It feels to me you´re just bickering out of spite now.

But mate, after reading your posts I´d say you fit the quota of a ( GW )"hater" pretty well. Just a neutral observation.

In 5th and 6th I had 10 armies (all 5000+ points).

In 7th I have zero.

#i'mpartofthereason


- since I was the motivator (battles and campaigns) in my group, the four other people haven't played a game of 40K since 7th dropped.
They have played quite a bit of X-Wing, though -due to my interest in that game.

 OldSkoolGoff wrote:
Runic is 100% bang on.

No.

This is just another stupid XBOX vs Playstation turf war. I like GW games, I like some other games too. There's room for both.

No, it's not.

But there will always be a small, vocal minority, that can't shut up about GW even though they claim not to even play GW games anymore.

And there will always be a silent majority that have walked away from GW, never to be seen again. GW is either haemorrhaging customers or the same amount of people are buying less. One of these things is true. The financials don't lie.

 OldSkoolGoff wrote:
Runic is 100% bang on.

This is just another stupid XBOX vs Playstation turf war. I like GW games, I like some other games too. There's room for both.

But there will always be a small, vocal minority, that can't shut up about GW even though they claim not to even play GW games anymore.

Are you completely blind to the concept of some people really liking 40K and its setting, but hating what GW has become?
Do you understand that some people like the setting of 40K so much that they are willing to hang on despite the greedy and idiotic moves made by GW?

Do you get that some people hang around here and in other 40K/GW related threads and forums because they desperately look for a reason to keep playing?
Do you realize that most of us would like to play 40K for many years to come.....and that's why we rail against what GW is doing?

Steelmage99 wrote:

 OldSkoolGoff wrote:
Runic is 100% bang on.

This is just another stupid XBOX vs Playstation turf war. I like GW games, I like some other games too. There's room for both.

But there will always be a small, vocal minority, that can't shut up about GW even though they claim not to even play GW games anymore.

Are you completely blind to the concept of some people really liking 40K and its setting, but hating what GW has become?
Do you understand that some people like the setting of 40K so much that they are willing to hang on despite the greedy and idiotic moves made by GW?

Do you get that some people hang around here and in other 40K/GW related threads and forums because they desperately look for a reason to keep playing?
Do you realize that most of us would like to play 40K for many years to come.....and that's why we rail against what GW is doing?

Sure. Do you realize that I remember when 3rd edition 40k came out and the exact same thing happened? Or when 8th fantasy came out?

Some people don't like new things. They get comfortable with things being one way and when those things are changed they can't handle it. 7th edition with the Maelstrom cards is probably actually MORE tactical than 5th (which you guys used to cry about when IT was the current system as well). 'Oh but I don't like Maelstrom blah blah blah' yeah well, Maelstrom makes the game balanced and tactical, so what do the crybabies do? Come up with a reason to hate Maelstrom so they can still cry.

What you guys who think you have it all figured out need to understand is some of us have been playing longer than you, have MORE information than you, MORE experience and end up at a different conclusion than you did. Which is fine. You can still play 5th edition 40k if you and your group like it better. No one is preventing you from doing that.

 OldSkoolGoff wrote:

Steelmage99 wrote:

 OldSkoolGoff wrote:
Runic is 100% bang on.

This is just another stupid XBOX vs Playstation turf war. I like GW games, I like some other games too. There's room for both.

But there will always be a small, vocal minority, that can't shut up about GW even though they claim not to even play GW games anymore.

Are you completely blind to the concept of some people really liking 40K and its setting, but hating what GW has become?
Do you understand that some people like the setting of 40K so much that they are willing to hang on despite the greedy and idiotic moves made by GW?

Do you get that some people hang around here and in other 40K/GW related threads and forums because they desperately look for a reason to keep playing?
Do you realize that most of us would like to play 40K for many years to come.....and that's why we rail against what GW is doing?

Sure. Do you realize that I remember when 3rd edition 40k came out and the exact same thing happened? Or when 8th fantasy came out?

Some people don't like new things. They get comfortable with things being one way and when those things are changed they can't handle it. 7th edition with the Maelstrom cards is probably actually MORE tactical than 5th (which you guys used to cry about when IT was the current system as well). 'Oh but I don't like Maelstrom blah blah blah' yeah well, Maelstrom makes the game balanced and tactical, so what do the crybabies do? Come up with a reason to hate Maelstrom so they can still cry.

What you guys who think you have it all figured out need to understand is some of us have been playing longer than you, have MORE information than you, MORE experience and end up at a different conclusion than you did. Which is fine. You can still play 5th edition 40k if you and your group like it better. No one is preventing you from doing that.

So what are your opinions on
Three straight years of price increases on the same products?
Edition changes every other year?
The company dicking out the independent retailer that made them into the giant they are today?
The company's international policy?

I included the quote because Steelmage99 made some serious points on how many people feel and you went straight to the "You just hate new stuff" card.

text removed.

reds8n

 Sigvatr wrote:
I'll go buy anything from GW tomorrow just to protest against the stupid hashtags. I hate those.

Maybe some Newcrons perchance? Just kidding there.

Until someone to addresses these two posts I think dismissing people who are unhappy with GW as internet hipsters doesn't only hole absolutley zero weight but kinda makes the people pushing it look like trolls.

Grimtuff wrote:
And there will always be a silent majority that have walked away from GW, never to be seen again. GW is either haemorrhaging customers or the same amount of people are buying less. One of these things is true. The financials don't lie.

MightyGodzilla wrote:
So what are your opinions on
Three straight years of price increases on the same products?
Edition changes every other year?
The company dicking out the independent retailer that made them into the giant they are today?
The company's international policy?

I included the quote because Steelmage99 made some serious points on how many people feel and you went straight to the "You just hate new stuff" card.

I'd also like to add to that list;
GWs legal department and IP bullying
Or, if you want to go really far back, the blatant theft of other IPs they made games for when creating their own games (D&D, 2000 AD at least that I know of).

 jonolikespie wrote:
Or, if you want to go really far back, the blatant theft of other IPs they made games for when creating their own games (D&D, 2000 AD at least that I know of).

Yeah, but at least back then they didn't pretend they were original about it

(In case anyone doesn't get this, please see the Chapterhouse case where the GW representative states under oath that their designer's ideas come from scratch)

 OldSkoolGoff wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:

Enjoy those rising prices then.
But this is a capitalist economy and voting with your wallet is a perfectly okay thing to do. You have this strange notion that we should just accept what we're given whether we like it or not and keep our mouths shut.
Sorry, but no. This is a free society and if I don't like a product, I'll voice my opinion about that product. If GW wants my money, they have to cater to my wants. If they don't fulfill those wants, I take my money elsewhere. Judging by the latest two financial reports, I'm not the only one doing so.
It's GW's job to make money and to do that they need to sell what people want. They're not doing that. They're just selling what they want to make and assume that's what people want.

Yes it's a perfectly OK thing to do. You've done it now. Move on. You don't have to accept anything. Just stop playing 40k and go do something else. Stop trying to ruin it for everyone else.

Find something else to talk about.

This was a thread specifically asking people why they have moved on from GW. His posts are on topic. You are the one not liking the topic and attacking people for it.

We get that you like GW. But when a thread specifically asks people who don't for their reasons, you can't blame people for giving them, and defending those reasons against people ciriticising them in a thread about those reasons.

You are as bad as those who criticise GW in positive threads about those games. You've become the people you're complaining about.