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 plastictrees wrote:
To be fair to M0ff3l (and I think your reasons for using BTP are bizarre) the thread itself is intended to be the useful source of info for interested parties, not the result.
People can judge for themselves based on the information he/she provides, expecting scientific method to be applied is a bit silly.

As far as the broader BTP review comment, I would have thought that people would have been excited to show off their awesome newly painted armies.

Or a lot of their customers are just not people who visit forums like dakkadakka etc.

 M0ff3l wrote:

 plastictrees wrote:
To be fair to M0ff3l (and I think your reasons for using BTP are bizarre) the thread itself is intended to be the useful source of info for interested parties, not the result.
People can judge for themselves based on the information he/she provides, expecting scientific method to be applied is a bit silly.

As far as the broader BTP review comment, I would have thought that people would have been excited to show off their awesome newly painted armies.

Or a lot of their customers are just not people who visit forums like dakkadakka etc.

I'd go to the warseer thread, you'll see a lot more cases like ten's.

 M0ff3l wrote:

 plastictrees wrote:
To be fair to M0ff3l (and I think your reasons for using BTP are bizarre) the thread itself is intended to be the useful source of info for interested parties, not the result.
People can judge for themselves based on the information he/she provides, expecting scientific method to be applied is a bit silly.

As far as the broader BTP review comment, I would have thought that people would have been excited to show off their awesome newly painted armies.

Or a lot of their customers are just not people who visit forums like dakkadakka etc.

Or the internet in general apparently.

Regardless, not the point.
I assume your next expected contact from BTP is upon receipt of your minis?

 plastictrees wrote:

 M0ff3l wrote:

 plastictrees wrote:
To be fair to M0ff3l (and I think your reasons for using BTP are bizarre) the thread itself is intended to be the useful source of info for interested parties, not the result.
People can judge for themselves based on the information he/she provides, expecting scientific method to be applied is a bit silly.

As far as the broader BTP review comment, I would have thought that people would have been excited to show off their awesome newly painted armies.

Or a lot of their customers are just not people who visit forums like dakkadakka etc.

Or the internet in general apparently.

Regardless, not the point.
I assume your next expected contact from BTP is upon receipt of your minis?

Either the receipt of my minis or a response to wether or not they are watching this thread and what they think about it, if I decide to ask them.

Reading all this is making me want to go and have like 10 different people/studios do the same model for me with the same instructions and reference material to the highest standard they offer and review them all, comparing end result, price, time taken, ect.

 jonolikespie wrote:
Reading all this is making me want to go and have like 10 different people/studios do the same model for me with the same instructions and reference material to the highest standard they offer and review them all, comparing end result, price, time taken, ect.

That's a big project. Amazing idea, but it would take a lot of time and resources to pull off.

 jonolikespie wrote:
Reading all this is making me want to go and have like 10 different people/studios do the same model for me with the same instructions and reference material to the highest standard they offer and review them all, comparing end result, price, time taken, ect.

A more useful thing would be to get them to paint it for X amount of dollars. Getting them to paint their highest standard will just tell you which is the best painter and who is willing to spend the most time on it, but if you fix the $$$ amount you'll get a better idea of how the actual value compares from one to the next.

This post should have waited for a completed project, if only to remove the possibility of BTP making this one look better than normal.

Also, since so many people here obviously don't paint their own models I would just like to say this:

I can't afford a commission. I paint my own stuff, and even when I put my best effort in it doesn't come close to the quality of a good commission. It takes me a VERY long time to paint some models (I spent a good 8 hours on Mulg the other night) and if you do the math at what I get paid at my regular job I can't imagine surviving on painting. It IS expensive, and it should be expensive.

If you have better uses for your cash, I understand. But don't bash someone who pays a reasonable price for the talents and skills of a professional painter... time is money. Some of us have more of one than the other.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 jonolikespie wrote:
Reading all this is making me want to go and have like 10 different people/studios do the same model for me with the same instructions and reference material to the highest standard they offer and review them all, comparing end result, price, time taken, ect.

A more useful thing would be to get them to paint it for X amount of dollars. Getting them to paint their highest standard will just tell you which is the best painter and who is willing to spend the most time on it, but if you fix the $$$ amount you'll get a better idea of how the actual value compares from one to the next.

I meant it more like paying for level 6, or the equivalent of, from each person/company, without letting them know its a review, then comparing price and quality.

Its important to compare price but I'd also want to see the highest standard commercially available at each place.

 jonolikespie wrote:
I meant it more like paying for level 6, or the equivalent of, from each person/company, without letting them know its a review, then comparing price and quality.

Its important to compare price but I'd also want to see the highest standard commercially available at each place.

Personally I tend to think the highest standard isn't really relevant to this discussion as BTP don't even try to produce high end figures. Despite all the fluff and big noting of themselves, they still say a level 6 isn't the highest possible, simply the highest they sell. Compare that to winterdyne who both can and will sell you models that are high level competition standard, or one of the Eastern European painters who pump out really high quality stuff.

You have to compare apples to apples, which is why I think fixing the price is more useful. Pay me $2000 and I'll paint you something awesome simply because I'll take time off work and spend all week on it

 Moktor wrote:
This post should have waited for a completed project, if only to remove the possibility of BTP making this one look better than normal.

This. Regardless of how well this project ends up, it means nothing as a review of BTP or anything else. The OP went out of way to criticize tenebre and make himself a 'white knight official internet defender of BTP'. The chance that the trolls at BTP are not aware of who the army is for and what the poster has done for them is about zero. Thus, its worth as a 'review' of their process and standards is about the same - zero.

 Surtur wrote:
Is it just me or does this post seem like a bit of post-purchase rationalization? I mean coming right after the other thread on BTP makes it look defensive, but proclaiming this a blog of another person's work just seems a bit self serving.

No - I challenged the OP multiple times to man up and post his new/ongoing experiences with BTP publicly in response to his criticism in the other thread. He's now done so, so kudos to him and let's all please keep it civil and pleasant and not regress to flaming or unpleasantness. I'd hate for this thread to be locked.

you have done a great job

 Gullinbursti wrote:
I'd suspect, for the next few months, that BTP will do their utmost to do their best on every miniature they send out. There is enough negative press currently that if I was in the same position, I'd do it to try and get some positive press going. However, when I compare even their best work to Jolly Roger Studios, Den of Imagination, Awaken Realms, it still isn't going to be the same jaw dropping gorgeousness. Also, as previously mentioned, barring maybe a vampire counts army, Nurgle is one of the easiest to paint armies in GW's range. I'm not wishing ill on the army (though I'd have given BTP an FU on $60 for two havoc launchers), I'd just guess that the next few months will be a good time to have an order in with BTP.

But I bet that if you were in that position, you'd have just offered a refund or to pay someone else to paint it and turn the bad job into a PR win, instead of doubling down on the bad attitude.


Anyway, Kudos to the OP for putting his money where his mouth is. I don't understand why he chose BTP since he's so close to Poland, but still, I'm looking forward to seeing the results and I hope he gets something he's happy with.

Not that I need convincing that BTP are capable of doing good work, but I also don't need convincing that they are capable of terrible work as well.

gailany222 wrote:
you have done a great job

What does that mean?

Regardless, I hope that the OP gets the results that he is looking for and that BTP live up to his expectations. Speaking as someone who has never had the disposable income to use a commission painter, and I earn good money, I'm intrigued as to the whole process.

 totalfailure wrote:

 Moktor wrote:
This post should have waited for a completed project, if only to remove the possibility of BTP making this one look better than normal.

This. Regardless of how well this project ends up, it means nothing as a review of BTP or anything else. The OP went out of way to criticize tenebre and make himself a 'white knight official internet defender of BTP'. The chance that the trolls at BTP are not aware of who the army is for and what the poster has done for them is about zero. Thus, its worth as a 'review' of their process and standards is about the same - zero.

Agreed. It would have been a fair review if he had submitted it, had it done, and then showed the results prior to exposing it to the "court of public opinion".

The OP is in an unwinnable situation as far as the public goes in this instance. If he says good things about BTP then he is "white knighting" if he says bad things then he's "just bad mouthing BTP without any proof/reason".
When he said that he would put his money on the line and make his own judgement people wanted him to show them every step of his way. If he doesn't do it in the present tense then he would be accused of manipulating events or ignoring bad experiences (assuming that he likes the results that he gets). This thread is purely his subjective opinion on BTP's work manner and their results. It is a courtesy to us that he chooses to share it.
This is not a scientific endeavor nor does it need to be fair. It is one persons experience with BTP. He will show us the results that he gets and share his opinion of it. You are free to accept or disregard his opinion. If you are that concerned about fairness then put your own money on the line and let us know how it turns out for you.

 warboss wrote:

 totalfailure wrote:

 Moktor wrote:
This post should have waited for a completed project, if only to remove the possibility of BTP making this one look better than normal.

This. Regardless of how well this project ends up, it means nothing as a review of BTP or anything else. The OP went out of way to criticize tenebre and make himself a 'white knight official internet defender of BTP'. The chance that the trolls at BTP are not aware of who the army is for and what the poster has done for them is about zero. Thus, its worth as a 'review' of their process and standards is about the same - zero.

Agreed. It would have been a fair review if he had submitted it, had it done, and then showed the results prior to exposing it to the "court of public opinion".

This is what I told people in the other thread, but they "demanded" proof and kept asking for the thread to be made. I cant please everyone so sorry that I went this route. However this thread will still be able to show anyone thinking about using BTP how the entire process goes from start to end. And not just how good the army turns out, but communicaiton, pricing, how the master instructions are going to look like etc.

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
The OP is in an unwinnable situation as far as the public goes in this instance. If he says good things about BTP then he is "white knighting" if he says bad things then he's "just bad mouthing BTP without any proof/reason".
When he said that he would put his money on the line and make his own judgement people wanted him to show them every step of his way. If he doesn't do it in the present tense then he would be accused of manipulating events or ignoring bad experiences (assuming that he likes the results that he gets). This thread is purely his subjective opinion on BTP's work manner and their results. It is a courtesy to us that he chooses to share it.
This is not a scientific endeavor nor does it need to be fair. It is one persons experience with BTP. He will show us the results that he gets and share his opinion of it. You are free to accept or disregard his opinion. If you are that concerned about fairness then put your own money on the line and let us know how it turns out for you.

Thank you, this is exactly the predicament I am in right now.

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
The OP is in an unwinnable situation...

The OP is not in any situation because he hasn't gotten any kind of an outcome on the services he paid for. His issue is not with the community, it's with BTP, and anything anyone says at this point is just noise.

Let the OP go through this process, get the models back, show some pictures, etc. and then people can judge. Despite any concerns about points of service, it's really the final outcome that speaks to the quality BTP provides.

FWIW, there are other people going through the process with BTP right now who are also documenting their experiences and will be sharing them when they get their models back. The OP is going to be one of many people offering insight into what a typical transaction with BTP looks like.

winterdyne wrote:

My result is something like:

As a quick aside - where are the hound and handler from? They look like Forge World? But if so, what line/figures?

 Azazelx wrote:

winterdyne wrote:

My result is something like:

As a quick aside - where are the hound and handler from? They look like Forge World? But if so, what line/figures?

Games day 2012 mini

Yes, 2012 event only models. I think I picked it up at the FW open day.

winterdyne wrote:
Yes, 2012 event only models. I think I picked it up at the FW open day.

The whole squad is outstanding. I know this is a very generic color scheme, but it's so well executed.

 techsoldaten wrote:

winterdyne wrote:
Yes, 2012 event only models. I think I picked it up at the FW open day.

The whole squad is outstanding. I know this is a very generic color scheme, but it's so well executed.

I wouldn't say it is a generic colour scheme.

This is the traditional scheme;



I think that Winterdyne has given it an excellent twist with adding the green, and moving the red to the visors and the yellow to the shoulders.'
On top of that he, as you said, have executed it very well.

I agree with you. You might say I agree+ with you.

Steelmage99 wrote:

 techsoldaten wrote:

winterdyne wrote:
Yes, 2012 event only models. I think I picked it up at the FW open day.

The whole squad is outstanding. I know this is a very generic color scheme, but it's so well executed.

I wouldn't say it is a generic colour scheme.

This is the traditional scheme;



I think that Winterdyne has given it an excellent twist with adding the green, and moving the red to the visors and the yellow to the shoulders.'
On top of that he, as you said, have executed it very well.

I agree with you. You might say I agree+ with you.

Ugh that yellow is so terrible

Let's not hijack the thread, eh?

I've bumped the showcase thread for those enforcers where I discussed the colour choices.

 jonolikespie wrote:
Reading all this is making me want to go and have like 10 different people/studios do the same model for me with the same instructions and reference material to the highest standard they offer and review them all, comparing end result, price, time taken, ect.

Right right, we all know Winterdyne is great. I want to see THIS.

I hope that this project turns out well for you. Everyone deserves to get their money's worth.
I've been following BTP for 3 years, dreaming of a day when my kids are out of diapers and I have that thing I hear other people talk about "disposable income" with which to get an army done. I've also fantasized about going to Valhalla or doing a painting camp. About a year ago, I removed them from my subscriptions because I couldn't keep up with the 3 or 4 videos per day.
Ok, enough rambling. I really have 2 things to say. #1. I too, find that their OSL tends to go over the top. #2. Companies with thousands of satisfied clients are rare in niche markets... and it isn't surprising BTP occasionally has difficulty transforming a person's vision into reality.

 Anpu-adom wrote:

Ok, enough rambling. I really have 2 things to say. #1. I too, find that their OSL tends to go over the top. #2. Companies with thousands of satisfied clients are rare in niche markets... and it isn't surprising BTP occasionally has difficulty transforming a person's vision into reality.

It's pretty damn surprising that when they bungle a commission as badly as the Chaos Dwarf army which inspired all of this recent discussion that they choose to deal with it in such an insulting and unacceptable manner.

 Eldarain wrote:

 Anpu-adom wrote:

Ok, enough rambling. I really have 2 things to say. #1. I too, find that their OSL tends to go over the top. #2. Companies with thousands of satisfied clients are rare in niche markets... and it isn't surprising BTP occasionally has difficulty transforming a person's vision into reality.

It's pretty damn surprising that when they bungle a commission as badly as the Chaos Dwarf army which inspired all of this recent discussion that they choose to deal with it in such an insulting and unacceptable manner.

There's a thread for that.

Back to THIS thread, OP, why did you want the sharp angled fly over the rounded one?