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 ImAGeek wrote:

 angelofvengeance wrote:

 Paradigm wrote:
I never understood why people feel the need to stop playing rules, models or anything just because GW decided to bring out a new version.

Snap. Have an exalt!

Because I have enough trouble finding games for systems that are supported, let alone rulesets that aren't.

What more support does it need? You have a currently-functioning ruleset, a very extensive model line and most current players will already have the models and rules to play. All that stuff isn't going to turn to dust just because GW announce a new and similar game.

By the way, I'm not being trying to be harsh here, and I genuinely feel for you if you can't get a game in practice and this new system does stop you playing, I'm just pointing out that WFB won't die just because you don't have to keep buying new books and models for it.

 Paradigm wrote:


So you're saying that if this new book comes out, and it's to all intents and purposes a different game, you'll still stop playing Warhammer Fantasy with its pretty-much-complete line of models and books? And all the minis you've bought that you're not going to be able to use in the new system are just going in the bin?

If this is an entirely different rule system and model line, I can't see how it invailidates any WFB collection anyone has already got, especially with the ET stuff streamlining all that as well.

No.

If I were playing Fantasy (I don't), I probably would continue.

Just saying that the numbering of editions, both Fantasy and 40K, is a fan-made thing to begin with. Hell, there's still a guy at my club adamant that the latest 40K is "Edition 6.5", not "7th". Technically, he's not wrong (or right).

Whatever the game will be, it'll probably just be called "Warhammer". The one thing that seems to stand out is that GW plans to "transfer" the brand to the new game, whatever it might be. Whether the community will see that as a "new edition" or a "separate game" will be as open to personal preference as seeing the latest 40K as "6.5." or "7th" (though 7th seems to be the majority choice these days).

 ImAGeek wrote:

 angelofvengeance wrote:

 Paradigm wrote:
I never understood why people feel the need to stop playing rules, models or anything just because GW decided to bring out a new version.

Snap. Have an exalt!

Because I have enough trouble finding games for systems that are supported, let alone rulesets that aren't.

Exactly.

I'll be keeping an open mind on this. I did with 7th ed 40k too, and decided that for now it isn't to my liking. I've got an army to update for both if the time comes, but too many other awesome games to play (infinity, dropzone commander, hordes) if it isn't a great ruleset.

BTW, please don't mistake what I've posted for what I believe will happen or even what I want to happen. I like the world of WHFB. Nothing wrong with giving it a shake, a la The End Times, but I would be sad to see any of it go. I also don't have much confidence that GW can pull it all off. I think this is more desperation than inspiration: very little positive comes from a place that's negative.

What I don't really understand about this move....

The whole 'bubble reality' thing really only comes into its own if you keep the existing model line and army books. That is what gives us a reason for Tomb Kings to fight Wood Elves (not that we needed one...) If you do away with the existing armies, why go through the 'bubble reality' trouble at all? You could just as easily say 'the old world is dead. Long live the NEW old world!' and have your fantasy space marines duking it out in that setting while all the other armies get squatted.

This whole thing just seems like it wasn't thought out. I just hope it turns out to not be true.

Actually sounds fun.

Will some of the bubbles contain space marines? Because that would be a good way to unbound your WHFB armies right into 40k! Ooh I'm totally gonna do a Blood Angels Vampire Counts army. Sweet.

 the_Armyman wrote:
It all sounds very plausible to me....

1. Vets don't buy things. They buy enough to keep current in the hobby. Sometimes they don't even do that.

It all makes perfect sense.

Agree with plausibility. Not sure #1 is so cut and dry. Your statement is probably true now but was not previously. It's a viscous circle that GW started and keeps powering.

I am a Vet and know lots of Vets...we fall into three groups: buy very little, buy to stay current, and the hobbyist who buys a new army (or two) a year. The last group is akin to the top tier airline customers...when I was in a road warrior job I purchased (flew) enough seats every year to fill two MD-88s. The airline knew it and treated me well. GW ignores or has no visibility to the last two groups because we do not shop in their channels (we use discounters and LFGs). So their conclusion is all Vets are all group 1.

GW's problem with Vets is that they cannot control us because we are an informed consumer. And GW does not know how to sell to an informed consumer, so they ignore us and focus on the new entrant.

 godswildcard wrote:
What I don't really understand about this move....

The whole 'bubble reality' thing really only comes into its own if you keep the existing model line and army books. That is what gives us a reason for Tomb Kings to fight Wood Elves (not that we needed one...) If you do away with the existing armies, why go through the 'bubble reality' trouble at all? You could just as easily say 'the old world is dead. Long live the NEW old world!' and have your fantasy space marines duking it out in that setting while all the other armies get squatted.

This whole thing just seems like it wasn't thought out. I just hope it turns out to not be true.

If all this is true, there won't be the current existing model line and army structure. All undead armies, chaos armies, elf armies, and human armies get mashed together into single army books for their race. The End Times books have already started this process.

 Paradigm wrote:
I am tentatively interesteed here. I've always preferred Skirmish sets to blocks of troops in a Fantasy setting, which is why I've stuck with LotR for so long and only dabbled in WFB. Lower model count also makes it easier to get into and is far more interesting to collect as you don't need three dozen of the same guy.

On the subject of WFB itself going away, of course it won't. I assume by the time we get to the final End Times books everything will have been dealt with and condensed into 5-6 Army Lists, and thus remain useable. If, in fact, this new 'edition' is a new game entirely, then technically nothing will supercede that and you can just keep playing 8th:ET. Even if this new game is marketed as '9th edition', I am 100% certain that every gaming group in the world that plays WFB in its current form will continue to do so. I never understood why people feel the need to stop playing rules, models or anything just because GW decided to bring out a new version.

That's perhaps because you're not understanding what people's objections actually are. Whether one person or their group keeps playing Fantasy doesn't change the fact that new players and returning players will see it as a "dead" game, meaning that the normal attrition groups suffer over time as people move away, try other games, or stop playing regularly due to other commitments will not be compensated for with new players coming in at anywhere close to the same frequency as if the game were being actively supported.

You only have to look at the specialist games; they're some of the best products GW have ever put out, and they continue to have a dedicated - fanatical, even - following. But they have nowhere near the same amounts of players as even the days when they were just left up on the GW site and mostly ignored. So sure, if GW does end up gutting Warhammer Fantasy and then tries to flog us this new monstrosity clothed in its skin, older editions will still be played, but within a very short space of time they won't be played often enough for people to count on being able to just show up at a club/store and get a game, and that trend is only going to get worse over time.

Vets don't buy things? Seriously? I'm a 20 year veteran and I easily spent 100-300€ per MONTH on Wargaming.

GW gets 2,5€ per months max (a paint pot... maybe if I really like a particular colour).

Veterans are older (30+y), have in many cases quite some income (single, no children, good job etc (of course not all of them)) and are willing to spend A LOT of their income on their hobby.

Veterans are probably the most important income source!

 Azreal13 wrote:


People just disappear.

Well, some people matter more to us than others. I really liked Kroothawk and his posts and he was a Dakka staple. It's tough no longer seeing an oldtimer around...I don't know much about him and not even his real name in order to get a background check going and I feel that it might not be okay to do one without it being clear whether he intentionally left Dakka or not.

It's just that whenever an oldtimer leaves, he leaves a gap in the community that cannot be easily filled. Its...saddening. I sincerely hope that he's doing fine and healthy and just left the community because he lost interest in wargaming.

Until then...

I can also confirm that Kroothawk chose to leave Dakka Dakka on his own.

He can post here again anytime he chooses to do so.

Or not, of course!

 Alpharius wrote:
I can also confirm that Kroothawk chose to leave Dakka Dakka on his own.

He can post here again anytime he chooses to do so.

Or not, of course!

Sorry for derailing, but does this mean that you know that he actively chose to levae Dakka instead of being forced to by e.g. health reasons? :(

Taking it to PMs.

Please feel free to carry on here in this thread, staying on topic please - thanks!

I'm curious what would constitute the idea of Space Marine equivalents for this new game.

How over the top and totally EXTREME could they make these super heroic knights?

Because I think Privateer beat them to the punch on this one...



Could GW's new knights out flair the Bastions? Is such a thing eve possible?

I guess the GW equivalent would need to be covered in skulls, naturally...

Hm... It may have one beneficial side to it:
When they reboot WHFB, they may introduce a completely new, well-designed core game with good core rules.

Since it's GW however, I have little faith in that. It probably *will* be different from today's game, but well-designed?

Also, invalidating all the armies? Nice way to completely and utterly screw over all of your player base at once. They do that, they can lay fantasy to rest and not bother marking the grave.

The more I think about this, the more it sounds exactly like 4th Edition D&D: make an all new version of the game, adopting modern design elements for it, then blow up your most popular setting (Forgotten Realms) for it to squeeze in all the shiny new stuff that wasn't there before.

And then have another company come along (Paizo) that basically reprints your previous rules you threw away (Pathfinder) and rake in the cash from all the vets you tossed aside.

So, if GW is really going to throw away the "old" Warhammer, then Mantic is now set to swoop in and take care of all the vets like Paizo did.

If that's true... holy crap, and not the good way. I think if they really do that, it's going to be the final death knell for WHFB, because that sounds pretty stupid. Ironically about the only thing that sounds cool is the "WHFB Space Marines" concept, and has been mentioned that's already called the Protectorate of Menoth in Warmachine.

But yeah, if they do this then I see a lot of vets going to Kings of War instead as an alternative. Maybe I can finally get people to give it a shot then

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
I'm curious what would constitute the idea of Space Marine equivalents for this new game.

How over the top and totally EXTREME could they make these super heroic knights?

Because I think Privateer beat them to the punch on this one...



Could GW's new knights out flair the Bastions? Is such a thing eve possible?

I guess the GW equivalent would need to be covered in skulls, naturally...

From pulling in a favour which I was saving for sisters news, I understand that they are quite ornate. And they are "Big" that's what I could get.

But what about the Brettonia army book? Will we get to see that first?

Well I have been enjoying the end times stuff, the description of the bubble world's sounds terrible.

Also only stocking core units and making you buy special and rare units from the gw website is what is KILLING fantasy right now. Takeing that model to its exterme is going to finally kill this game.

Pretty much what I expected since their "End Times" line.

Those are rumors, yes, we have to wait and see....but for sure, no buying Warhammer Battle stuff until I see the thing in their White Dwarf.

And if the rumors are true...well, it will be the death of Battle. Like D&D4. Like Confrontation. Like everything made by really stupid people who think their "new sight" is "awesome".

The sadness is that all WB fans will be the ones really screwed by all of this. But then...if they are still there even with the End Times, yeah...they kinda asked for it.

 Bonesnapper wrote:
But what about the Brettonia army book? Will we get to see that first?

No

 Grey Templar wrote:

 triplegrim wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:


But the Kings of War rules suck.

Did you try it? There is less clutter, and lower prices at least.

Less clutter, but its just so bland.

Yes, I've tried it and Grey Templar hits it on the nail. I'm also turned off by the whole damage counters rather than removing models way of approaching units.

 Platuan4th wrote:
Yes, I've tried it and Grey Templar hits it on the nail. I'm also turned off by the whole damage counters rather than removing models way of approaching units.

Whatever floats your boat I guess. Also, I should point out that unless you've been living under a rock these past few months you would know KoW v2 rules will be out this August (ish)

 Bonesnapper wrote:
But what about the Brettonia army book? Will we get to see that first?

I hear they are coming the week after the plastic Thunderhawk, just before Sisters get their new plastic range.

 angelofvengeance wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:
Yes, I've tried it and Grey Templar hits it on the nail. I'm also turned off by the whole damage counters rather than removing models way of approaching units.

Whatever floats your boat I guess. Also, I should point out that unless you've been living under a rock these past few months you would know KoW v2 rules will be out this August (ish)

Not so much living under a rock as intentionally not paying attention to Mantic's release schedule cause I have zero want for their products. No reason to keep up with what's coming when if I have no intention of playing or purchasing it.

God damn I proper hope this is absolute turd nuggets.

I am all for moving time on and writing the next chapter.

But not this....not like this.

 Tannhauser42 wrote:
The more I think about this, the more it sounds exactly like 4th Edition D&D: make an all new version of the game, adopting modern design elements for it, then blow up your most popular setting (Forgotten Realms) for it to squeeze in all the shiny new stuff that wasn't there before.

And then have another company come along (Paizo) that basically reprints your previous rules you threw away (Pathfinder) and rake in the cash from all the vets you tossed aside.

So, if GW is really going to throw away the "old" Warhammer, then Mantic is now set to swoop in and take care of all the vets like Paizo did.

If Mantic make their v2 rules to resemble 6th edition Fantasy they would have an instant best seller in their hands.

But I'm with the people that say that their current edition is way too bland and generic...