Robotech® RPG Tactics™-License lost, the end is near!

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**Albertorius**

Well, that's... probably not good.

It might mean their need of moneys is in fact quite dire. Or who knows, it might mean they finally realize that the prices they were asking for what they are offering were nuts.

Yeah, right.

**Asterios**

Albertorius wrote:
Well, that's... probably not good.

It might mean their need of moneys is in fact quite dire. Or who knows, it might mean they finally realize that the prices they were asking for what they are offering were nuts.

Yeah, right.

funny thing is, even at 30% off it doesn't seem to be selling nor garnering much interest.

**Cypher-xv**

@ singing or Forar

Could you guys please speak to Kevin about wave two and about giving us a proper update thanks.

**Mike1975**

Asterios wrote:
even the white knights have to agree this does not bode well if all of RRT is already 30% off on first day.

When all we get are prediction of "Doom!" There comes a point where things get tuned out just like Jorel and Boba. One way or another I'll get to play all three generations even if it is with standins.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Albertorius wrote:
Well, that's... probably not good.

It might mean their need of moneys is in fact quite dire. Or who knows, it might mean they finally realize that the prices they were asking for what they are offering were nuts.

Yeah, right.

Actually, I've heard from a good manufacturer that there are two problems. Ninja Division offered too much during the KS, at $2 or so per mini, I can see that, and they also think the add-on boxes price point should be even higher. This is from people who make miniatures now.

**warboss**

Mike1975 wrote:

When all we get are prediction of "Doom!" There comes a point where things get tuned out just like Jorel and Boba. One way or another I'll get to play all three generations even if it is with standins.

While I agree that predictions of doom from the getgo are tiresome and some folks have been doing that from day KS+30, I do think that this gencon gives folks enough info to make an informed (but still subjective) opinion on the health of the game overall instead of just in their local area. We'll have the Adepticon, two gencons technically, and an open house to see what the reception is in areas of very concentrated gamers. Of course, if wave 2 immediately comes out and addresses most if not all the issues with the first wave and palladium quickly learns a whole host of new tricks on how to run their business and interact with fans, things could change... but I think once reports filter out from the con that we'll be able to make an initial informed opinion. If yet again tables are half empty and sales seem lackluster despite the discounts, it certainly won't be half glass full.

**Mike1975**

warboss wrote:
Mike1975 wrote:

When all we get are prediction of "Doom!" There comes a point where things get tuned out just like Jorel and Boba. One way or another I'll get to play all three generations even if it is with standins.

While I agree that predictions of doom from the getgo are tiresome and some folks have been doing that from day KS+30, I do think that this gencon gives folks enough info to make an informed (but still subjective) opinion on the health of the game overall instead of just in their local area. We'll have the Adepticon, two gencons technically, and an open house to see what the reception is in areas of very concentrated gamers. Of course, if wave 2 immediately comes out and addresses most if not all the issues with the first wave and palladium quickly learns a whole host of new tricks on how to run their business and interact with fans, things could change... but I think once reports filter out from the con that we'll be able to make an initial informed opinion. If yet again tables are half empty and sales seem lackluster despite the discounts, it certainly won't be half glass full.

You also need to take in basic manufacturing and economics. Even at a discount PB will make out well selling RRT at the con.

Not a TPTB, just basing my comments on previous discussions.

Con-specific items - only appear at cons for cost reasons.

Say you, make miniature Breetai. Production costs $2. If you take it to a con, you can sell it for $5, and make $3 profit for yourself. Good!

You sell it to the distributor for $3, to make some money back. The distributor sells it to the stores for $5, so they make money on it. The store then sells it for $10, because they need to make money on stuff that sits on shelves for years.

In this case, you make $1, and the customer's paying double what he would via direct sale. Only makes sense if you figure you can sell tens of thousands ... and not even I think there's that many Breetai miniature fans out there.

If you try to manage the distribution yourself, that costs too - time, effort & shipping. And you don't actually have spare people sitting around to do that - that's why you sell to a distributor normally. Plus you're effectively eating the cost of any unsold stock, which you normally have the store owner doing. So it's not any better.

* * *

The moral of this lesson is, selling direct at cons makes
- for affordable (eg. small) production runs that a distributor wouldn't touch.
- small production runs profitable.
- cool stuff available to the fans who make an effort to go to cons, who are usually pretty darned loyal fans.

Trying to distribute the same things rapidly becomes a losing business. Sad, but that's the way it is.

* * *

**warboss**

Mike1975 wrote:
Even at a discount PB will make out well selling RRT at the con.

I'm not claiming otherwise. It is interesting though that historically Palladium has been very proud of their NOT discounting their products except in certain rare circumstances (like grab bags where you technically don't get a guarantee you'll get anything in particular you want) and the very rare sale. Previously their gencon coupons were usually for one purchase discount or a free rifter or a lesser selling unpopular and unsupported game line like BTS, not their newest hotness. I agree that they still make a healthy profit at 30% as that is still more than they make when they go through a distributor but previously they would have been selling it at 100% as gencon (at least when I went) had a policy that companies who make the products are the only ones who sell them new at the con so there is no on site competition usualy for new products. I'm not sure if that has changed but it used to be the case. The across the board discount on their big new product line is particularly jarring and out of character for them.

**Kid_Kyoto**

News

Real news

From the facebook group

https://www.facebook.com/RRPGT?fref=ts

**Cypher-xv**

Except for Beetai it's the same stuff from last year.

**Mike1975**

well and the Grell and Miriya......

**Nomeny**

So according to the facebook page someone tried to blockade the Palladium Books booth?!

**warboss**

Nomeny wrote:
So according to the facebook page someone tried to blockade the Palladium Books booth?!

I'd put the chances of that happening at the within 98% of the probability of a certain someone suing Palladium during the last two years while making the hundreds of threats about doing so. In any case, there is a youtube video about the gencon "running of the bulls" that you should watch. Even if one person did try, it would be the dutch boy finger in the dike no matter how jabba the hutt the particular gamer was.

**Mike1975**

LOL

**Cypher-xv**

Mike1975 wrote:
well and the Grell and Miriya......

I was referring to what's in the actual pictures.

**Asterios**

Nomeny wrote:
So according to the facebook page someone tried to blockade the Palladium Books booth?!

I haven't heard of any planned and/or tried blockade of PB's booth, who said that? and where?

Kid_Kyoto wrote:
News

Real news

From the facebook group

https://www.facebook.com/RRPGT?fref=ts

what news and where? I don't see anything new other then the con exclusives.

**warboss**

Asterios wrote:
Nomeny wrote:
So according to the facebook page someone tried to blockade the Palladium Books booth?!

I haven't heard of any planned and/or tried blockade of PB's booth, who said that? and where?

I did a quick youtube search and much to my surprise someone actually uploaded a video of it (linked below). Is that Forar? Did he mention he was going in costume?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2uZjtAkN38

**Asterios**

warboss wrote:
Asterios wrote:
Nomeny wrote:
So according to the facebook page someone tried to blockade the Palladium Books booth?!

I haven't heard of any planned and/or tried blockade of PB's booth, who said that? and where?

I did a quick youtube search and much to my surprise someone actually uploaded a video of it (linked below). Is that Forar? Did he mention he was going in costume?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2uZjtAkN38

ha ha ha, but no I checked and the only mention was by that sites creator, and he said it out of the blue, no one mentioned anything about it, and I haven't even heard anything about it, except someone mentioned in the KS forums people should do it and it was laughed off, sounds like who ever runs that RRT FB page is just stirring the pot and talking out of his ass and making PB look bad, since hes a fan of PB.

**n815e**

Mike1975 wrote:

Albertorius wrote:
Well, that's... probably not good.

It might mean their need of moneys is in fact quite dire. Or who knows, it might mean they finally realize that the prices they were asking for what they are offering were nuts.

Yeah, right.

Actually, I've heard from a good manufacturer that there are two problems. Ninja Division offered too much during the KS, at $2 or so per mini, I can see that, and they also think the add-on boxes price point should be even higher. This is from people who make miniatures now.

The cost per miniature on the Kickstarter was very low and had me wondering if it was too low.

The prices of the add-on boxes could possibly have gone higher. This was probably always going to be a niche game and with a limited, but enthusiastic fan base, the prices could have been bumped up and still sold the same amount. But at this point increasing the price for product they may be having a hard time selling is only going to sell much less.

Selling the boxes with 30% discount at the convention is actually a smart move. Not only will they still be making more profit than selling through distribution, but they may actually sell.
I've been going to conventions for about 25 years. Dealers rooms used to have a strong draw as it was a way to buy things that you might not normally have available to you. With internet shopping being so easy, international and cheap, full priced dealers rooms don't get a lot of sales from me. 30% discount is not bad.

**Asterios**

heres the whole post regarding it on that FB page, which is also why I will not give my time to that site in any way shape or form, since the sites owner is just off, would rather go to a site ran by n815e or even Lolafett, then that FB group:

Robotech RPG Tactics

July 24 at 4:42pm ·
.

Initiating a blockade around the Palladium booth at Gencon?
Really?
Cmon people, security is there for a reason.
Be smart about this!

Jefferey McDowell likes this.
.

Alexander McLaren So wait are we now just saying that we were 'suckered' on kickstarter? Is that how bad it is?

July 24 at 5:19pm
..

Robotech RPG Tactics oops
this is a fan page BTW
And I have said I sympathize with the backers.
So i retract that.
I should have used a different word.
Im pretty sure if you follow us, you know our stance on Kickstarter.
Palladium has been in business for 30 years, has a credit line, and didnt need $1.4M of your money to pull this off.
Thats all Im saying here.
No disrespect man.
But this type of 1950s teamster tactics is not going to get Wave 2 out any sooner.

July 24 at 5:29pm · Edited
..

Robotech RPG Tactics ....and yeah, its bad

July 24 at 5:26pm
..

Alexander McLaren I stopped reading their updates months ago when they tried to distract us with talk of scale and future kickstarters... As if.

July 24 at 5:32pm
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Alexander McLaren PS I know this is a fan site, but if even palladium's fans are using the word 'suckered', then yeah it's really bad.

July 24 at 5:33pm
..

Robotech RPG Tactics Well the part about scale, ya see thats the problem, they werent (and arent) talking to anyone with solid info.
We were the ones who broke that story, because we knew for a fact it was true, but when we informed the RRT community of what was going on, we walked into a major shitstorm, alot of people got angry over that report, so much so that now Palladium AT LEAST went out special to clarify that it was indeed staying at 6mm and wouldn't be switching to 15mm or 18mm as they were discussing during Open House.
Overall our sources are pretty on top of things, we felt confident releasing that one.
But my point is, things are so bad right now, that no matter what is reported, the backers are willing to "shoot the messenger" I personally got threatened and had to block some folks out of policy.
So yeah, the fans are not happy, and alot of them do indeed feel "suckered"
And I dont know what to say about that.
This is all alot of smoke and mirrors, and that could be for many reasons.
My personal theory is they are being advised by legal counsel to keep quiet on all the particulars.
I never invested in the kickstarter, so its a little easier to have the stance in this that I do.
I can rationalize whats happening without adding emotion into the equation.
I can tell ya, you wont see this until 2016, that is obvious.
There is no way they will be hitting the seasonal shipping dates because if they dont have their products on store shelves by Halloween theres no point.
Thats just standard, and you know they arent going to make that window.
However, to PBs credit, I would be absolutely stunned if they never fulfilled the order.
They outlived TSR for crying out loud.
Even though it doesnt look like it, Palladium knows what they're doing.

July 24 at 6:55pm · Edited
..

Mul Duran Now, do it in Mecha costumes, that's clever.

July 24 at 8:29pm
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Robotech RPG Tactics Lol
your a bad boy Mul

July 24 at 9:23pm
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Mul Duran Ok, ok...what would be cooler/more realistic, all the protesters dress up as ships in the Zentradei armada, and form a blockade of the booth.

July 24 at 9:58pm
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Robotech RPG Tactics talk about a photo op...

July 24 at 10:05pm
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Marnie Jefferson Time for the Gatoraide fellow nerlings we are laying siege to the PB booth! Security will kick you out and you will sate your ticket. You would be better spent is just coordinate everyone coming up separately and asking question on production and delivery dates on Wave 2. If 50+ people ask the same question he might get a hint and that would be better than a blockade

Which is most likely to arrive sooner Half Life 3 or Wave 2? Only the dark gods of the mighty D20 know

July 24 at 6:02pm
..

Robotech RPG Tactics Wow Marnie, I salute you on your restraint because you are definitely one of the more vocal critics.
Props to you on that.
yeah guys, listen to marnie.... and.... woah... whats this about Half Life 3?
I been out of video games for a minute outside of GTA5...
Are you serious?
Theres going to be a new one?
I played the first two and loved em!
Dont tell me this is another Kickstarter...

July 24 at 7:01pm
..

Marnie Jefferson I may be vocal but I know that nothing I say will change how soon or late the delivery date is.

The thing about any convention is that we go to have fun and I know I would not be arsed about doing a blockade when I have other stands to spend my time and money at. That is what may gets Kev's notice. People ask about Wave 2, buy nothing then leave. If every one that was going to blockade brought a friend and all did that PB may take notice

No Half Life 3 is still has no pulse, its vaporware. To me Wave 2 is simply sliding down further to the same level of vaporware. Everyone will start getting excited over the smallest rumour in the hope it becomes true but now I fear it will be closer to Duke Nukem 13 years of waiting only to bitterly disappointed.

1 · July 24 at 8:16pm
..

Robotech RPG Tactics Yeah, the Duke Nukems were... well... they werent that great.
And talk about about cheesy!
I think the crew that made kung fury has pulled off the cheese factor how the Duke games wanted to be, but made it extremely entertaining adding 80s cliches without making fools of themselves.
"Dont Hassle the Hoff"

1 · July 24 at 8:29pm · Edited
..

Joey Schumaker What am I missing???

July 24 at 4:52pm
..

Robotech RPG Tactics Theres talk, rumors.
If I hear this stuff, even if its BS, I put out a disclaimer immediately.
No matter how bad this wave 2 stuff is, these types of ideas are unproductive and totally unacceptable.
This is touched up on a bit in the Gamers on Games clip we posted yesterday.
But I have read about this on other forums.

Could you imagine going to Indiana to buy an exclusive and getting shouted down by others because they got suckered on a Kickstarter campaign?
Not cool.
And thats what there is talk of.

July 24 at 5:17pm

**n815e**

That FB group is run by a guy more full of it than Rick.

**Mike1975**

n815e wrote:
That FB group is run by a guy more full of it than Rick.

Agreed, I've had to force him to correct a few things he's posted. He seems to post some things just to try to grab attention. He is also a bit too enthusiastic in killing any criticism.

**Asterios**

its a sign of tha apocalypse all sides agreeing on something, but seriously that guys site has people talking about barricading the PB booth and hes the one who brought it up.

**legoburner**

Here are some full booth photos. They have a pretty steady stream of people - more than forgeworld at least.

**Asterios**

seems most of them looking at the display, but as far as the actual RRT product for sale, no one is there, which is not making PB happy I'm sure.

and good lord look at that pallet of games in the center, they sure dream big I imagine.

correction they have at least 2 pallets worth of games didn't see the pallet in the back there.

**Kid_Kyoto**

Cypher-xv wrote:
Except for Beetai it's the same stuff from last year.

Darn Palladium suckered me.

Again

**Sining**

I haven't been going to conventions for 25 years but the few that I've gone to, most producers don't sell their stuff for a flat discount. Instead they give promos, they give bundles and so on. Most, not all.

I dropped by PB again this morning, after queuing up 1.5 hours at UDE for the VS TCG and I wouldn't say they had a pretty steady stream of visitors. I mean, it really depends on how you want to see it. Forgeworld had very little visitors because it was at the far end of the hall, like really really far off. But if you compare the crowd around PB compared to places like Ninja Division or Plaidhat games or the demo table for Spartan Games Halo, or Wyrd or Golem Arcana, it just seems like the other places had much more people getting/giving demos than PB did.

Also, didn't see Kevin at all when I dropped by. No idea where he was.

**Alpharius**

Anyone able to do a "Who's Who" for PB Staff and "Fan Friends" in those pics?

**Joyboozer**

No, but I can suggest a cardio booth at conventions is a necessity, eat well and exercise people.

**Asterios**

Sining wrote:
I haven't been going to conventions for 25 years but the few that I've gone to, most producers don't sell their stuff for a flat discount. Instead they give promos, they give bundles and so on. Most, not all.

I dropped by PB again this morning, after queuing up 1.5 hours at UDE for the VS TCG and I wouldn't say they had a pretty steady stream of visitors. I mean, it really depends on how you want to see it. Forgeworld had very little visitors because it was at the far end of the hall, like really really far off. But if you compare the crowd around PB compared to places like Ninja Division or Plaidhat games or the demo table for Spartan Games Halo, or Wyrd or Golem Arcana, it just seems like the other places had much more people getting/giving demos than PB did.

Also, didn't see Kevin at all when I dropped by. No idea where he was.

he was probably in his room crying wondering why are all the people being mean to him

that or avoiding people from asking him where is wave 2.

**Merijeek**

Joyboozer wrote:
No, but I can suggest a cardio booth at conventions is a necessity, eat well and exercise people.

My most recent Gen Con (2 or 3 years ago) one of the booths was, essentially, a private plane service. And we're talking Lear, not Cessna.

That one didn't quite fit in at Gen Con.