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Yeah, Battletech nails that emergent narrative aspect that my other beloved old-school favourites like Warzone 1st Edition and 2nd Edition 40k do. You end every game with some kind of story, and all of it flowed freely from the way various mechanics interact with each other.

That said, like those other games, this kind of thing scale poorly and so you can miss some of the spectacle of larger-scale conflicts. With 40k 2nd and Warzone, I tend not to care much as both of those are just fine as platoon-level skirmish games (and for 40k, Epic does a better job of scaling up by altering the scale and abstracting things out). But with BTech, the urge to do big games is pretty tempting as it is already in the right scale for larger deployments with a lot of combined arms. But it strains the second you start eyeing company-on-company.

For that, I like Alpha Strike for giving an option for larger games without zooming too far out. Individual units are still important, but abstract enough that I can run large games without having to save table-states between weekends.

It's preferable to trying to streamline the base rules to make a better large-scale wargame, letting them keep their charm while offering an option for people that want to run the bigger conflicts at a manageable level of zoom.

It also doesn't help that a lotta the battletech FICTION describes larger conflicts, when your game scales best for lance vs lance but your fiction often describes huge level conflcits it causes problems

Definitely. Something like the Battle of Luthien against the Clans? Tukayyid? Even a fringe scouting action from one of those battles would seriously tax a normal game of Battletech. I know once a guy that once said he can easily do company v. company (he even claimed battalion!!) sized games in a "couple of hours" with "players that don't take forever to move". I laughed and joked that he had a different definition of "a couple of hours" than me, because his "couple" sounds like "anywhere from six to eight". But Alpha Strike? Company v. Company is easily possible.

Because you can't really do an "Epic" version of Battletech when it's already 6mm, I have always kind if considered things to be the other way. To me, Alpha Strike is the army-scale version of Battletech, where things are admittedly simplified to allow much larger battles to flow sanely, while Battletech proper is the skirmish-level version of mech combat, having a much more detailed damage system that works best with a small number of units that really tell a story as they fight.

Both are really cool, but I don't know when I'd ever get involved in my after-work games of Battletech with anything larger than maybe demi-company. The just become too long and taxing.

But Alpha Strike? I have only played a single game other than watching how-its-played videos, and already I know I'd be perfectly happy with a 4x6 table full of standard 3D wargaming terrain, at least two or three lances of mechs and/or vehicles, and maybe even get crazy and have a couple of aerotech fighters zipping around on some crazy 6-8" tall flight stands just for the spectacle of it. And finish that all in the same timeframe as a relatively chatty 6v6 mech Battletech game.

Zoomed-in stories of individual pilots make for some freaking awesome games, but sometimes, sometimes I want spectacle.

 AegisGrimm wrote:
Because you can't really do an "Epic" version of Battletech when it's already 6mm...

Didn't stop them from trying.

At least, from a miniature perspective that is.

Admittedly, I've always thought that Battleforce-scale mechs were freaking cool. A Classic game with those would really make the hexes seem more the scale they should be.

Some of the new Catalyst mechs really have to suck in their guts to fit adjacent to each other, though I give Catalyst a pass for making affordable, pretty mechs that are larger than GW Primaris marines, AND having them all in proper scale with each other.

It's a very good thing that both rulesets are supported and Alpha Strike is no longer the unacknowledged love child of Battleforce and Strategic Operations.

I'm a long time fan of the universe, but it's hard to overstate just how little appeal the RPG-like granularity, long playtime and hex maps (yes I know you could play 3d...) of Classic Battletech has for me. I always want spectacle. Give me Alpha Strike's streamlined rules, more units and 3D terrain please!

Still I think it's great there are so many entry points -including starship, squad level infantry and true RPGing- into the Battletech franchise. If there's a scope of gaming you like, Battletech has a ruleset for you, even if you may have to dig a bit to find it

 Eilif wrote:
It's a very good thing that both rulesets are supported and Alpha Strike is no longer the unacknowledged love child of Battleforce and Strategic Operations.

I'm a long time fan of the universe, but it's hard to overstate just how little appeal the RPG-like granularity, long playtime and hex maps (yes I know you could play 3d...) of Classic Battletech has for me. I always want spectacle. Give me Alpha Strike's streamlined rules, more units and 3D terrain please!

Still I think it's great there are so many entry points -including starship, squad level infantry and true RPGing- into the Battletech franchise. If there's a scope of gaming you like, Battletech has a ruleset for you, even if you may have to dig a bit to find it

the unoffical motto of the "total war series" of books has long been "we've got a rule for that"

Personally my entry point to the setting was the Mechwarrior games, so the scale I enjoy most is 1-3 lances per side plus additional combat vehicles in support.

I find that scale to be time-consuming, complex, and clunky in Classic, but it plays smoothly in Alpha Strike. It's not really the 'spectacle' I'm after, I just prefer some combined-arms and company-level play and feel AS does it better. I use hex mats rather than miniatures so it's pretty much all the same setup, just a different level of abstraction for play.

Different strokes for different folks. I appreciate that both products exist. There are definitely some elements to Classic that I feel are lacking in Alpha Strike, but it's not enough to spoil the game for me.

 catbarf wrote:
There are definitely some elements to Classic that I feel are lacking in Alpha Strike...

Like differentiated weapons.

I just can't fathom playing a game like this where everything is boiled down to "Has Gun".

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 catbarf wrote:
There are definitely some elements to Classic that I feel are lacking in Alpha Strike...

Like differentiated weapons.

I just can't fathom playing a game like this where everything is boiled down to "Has Gun".

There is some weapon loadout differentiation in the special rules, but overall, you're correct. However, weapon abstraction is the price you pay if you want to put a company of units on the table and finish the game in a reasonable amount of time. I'm almost always on the side of abstraction in the service of faster play and spectacle, but I completely understand why some feel differently.

Also, if one strongly prefers Classic Battletech to Alpha Strike, there is already a thread specifically for them: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/720601.page

That said, when I want a lance-per-player battle that will have nice weapon differentiation and a Battletech "feel" but plays much faster, I have alot of fun with the "Mech Attack" ruleset. The MA damage grid is more abstract than BT's outlines and dots, but I would argue that the weapon damage shapes mechanic makes each weapon type seem even more differentiated and special. I frequently run it at conventions in 28mm and can usually conclude an 8 player game, with inexperienced players, and 4-5 units per player, in about 3 hours including a rules orientation.

BrianDavion wrote:Maybe but at the same time the classic game can, understandably feel clunky to someone whose grown up playing more uhh.. "modern" table top games.

That's why I said Alpha Strike is good for those coming from that most popular sci-fi tabletop game (which is about the same age as Battletech).

AegisGrimm wrote:Definitely. Something like the Battle of Luthien against the Clans? Tukayyid?

I still remember the shock I had reading the scenario rules for the Battle of Kado-guchi Valley/Valley of Death.

Even Battleforce rules can barely handle it, and that was started with this scenario! A literal Battalion for each model on the field. SMH

I've been tempted to try and recreate this scenario with Alpha Strike for our group. It would have been more amazing at our old LGS, since we could pull 2 of the tables together easily to make it that much more epic. The place we changed to isn't as flexible.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 catbarf wrote:
There are definitely some elements to Classic that I feel are lacking in Alpha Strike...

Like differentiated weapons.

I just can't fathom playing a game like this where everything is boiled down to "Has Gun".

That was something that really put me off of it initially. After I gave it a go, I found the end result is that mech variants are still differentiated in a manner similar to CBT. You still feel the presence of that big ol' cannon on the HBK-4G, a CPLT-A1 plays differently from a CPLT-C1, a CGR-1A1 is still an under-gunned meme, and so on. They play very similarly even though the mechanics of resolution are different and you don't roll for individual shots, though there are some variants that end up having the same stats since they're nearly identical to begin with.

Also, one side effect of all the stats being 'baked in' is that the designers took the opportunity to make balance tweaks. AC/2s are more useful, and the Rifleman is a credible mech under AS, especially since flak ammo makes it effective at anti-air. Some mechs that in CBT don't live up to their lore get a new life in AS, with the crunch issues of their design being smoothed over.

The thing that I actually don't like about AS is the way heat is handled. As I mentioned a few pages ago it's something that you can safely ignore most games, and the voluntary overheat mechanic is severely punishing for how little damage it adds and how hard it is to get rid of heat in AS once you accumulate it. It also scales bizarrely- adding a single extra point of damage overheats a Locust exactly as much as it overheats an Atlas. There might be some kind of math under the hood where the relative heat sinking capacity is rolled into their base stats, but it feels odd and means it's virtually never worth it to overheat big mechs. Basically the entire 'heat economy' of CBT is stripped out, and while that does simplify things considerably to suit the scale of the game, it does make a tangible difference where I feel the abstraction of weapons doesn't.

Like I said before- YMMV.

Another good example is the SHD-2D Shadow Hawk. Rather pitiful when shooting in Classic, but pretty close to the Wolverine in Alpha Strike.

I have a rules question from a newbie who is ALSO trying to teach an 8 year old, lol.

So, about jumping movement in Alpha Strike.

I understand the +2 penalty for an attacker who jumps, but what if something like a Wolverine has a 2/3 TMM on it's card and makes a jumping movement? Is the number after the dash higher because it already factors in the incoming attack penalty of TMM+1 from jumping, or do I still add a further +1, giving it a TMM of 4?

It's easy to figure out on something that has a flat TMM on the unit card no matter whether it jumps or not but this is making me possibly overthink things.

Depends on the variant and the source of the card, honestly.

The cards that are provided by the Master Unit List generally don't show the Jump modifier, even with the JMPS special.

Taking a minute or two to pull out and look at the Wolverine card that came with the Game of Armored Combat, it does appear that they included the Jump TMM after the slash there.

 Charistoph wrote:
Depends on the variant and the source of the card, honestly.

The cards that are provided by the Master Unit List generally don't show the Jump modifier, even with the JMPS special.

Taking a minute or two to pull out and look at the Wolverine card that came with the Game of Armored Combat, it does appear that they included the Jump TMM after the slash there.

Yeah but what really confused me is the cards that DON'T include it, like the Jenner, that only has a single "3" for TMM. I was told that's because the card factors in the Weak Jump Jets (1), but then the Shadow Hawk is a 2/2, and doesn't even state the Weak Jump Jets that the card on MUL has stated.

I'm thinking the cards are just all over the place, and I may just use only MUL-downloaded cards for my games, as they seem the most correct, even if they don't do the Jump Jet math expressly for you.

The old rules listed the TMM differently, so if you have the base cards. They are listed for that. (You were always using jump.)

Now you choose, adding it on.
You also get a penalty to shooting.

If you have a jump capable mech that’s faster running, it should list 2 versions now I think. I would need to go check that one :0

Alpha Strike tonight.
In 10mm with Rebased MechWarrior Dark Age Clix figures and Drop Ship. On Dropzone Commander card terrain. All mechs, 350 points per side. Wolf Hunters vs Liao. Other vehicles and copters were just for terrain. We played through 3 turns by which time it was clear my Liao had the upper hand.

I hadn't played in years and had forgotten how much I like it. Really a fun, fast game.

Several other club members have expressed interest and we've got quite a few 10mm armies build from clix so it's likely well be playing it more in the upcoming months. Might give me the impetus to build up the box of n scale structure kits I've got.

That's pretty epic.

We did something similar with that drop ship using Classic Battletech and HeroScape Terrain. It was pretty epic.

 Charistoph wrote:
That's pretty epic.

We did something similar with that drop ship using Classic Battletech and HeroScape Terrain. It was pretty epic.

Thanks!
It was a good time. Took us a bit to get the flow of the rules but I think we'll be into even bigger battles soon!

I bet Battletech looks great on Heroscape terrain.

 Eilif wrote:
It was a good time. Took us a bit to get the flow of the rules but I think we'll be into even bigger battles soon!

Alpha Strike can be a little rough when compared to certain other systems, but its the simpler game for Battletech, and good for learning the basics of calculating fire solutions (even if the values are a little different).

 Eilif wrote:
I bet Battletech looks great on Heroscape terrain.

It works rather well, for the most part.

 Charistoph wrote:

 Eilif wrote:
It was a good time. Took us a bit to get the flow of the rules but I think we'll be into even bigger battles soon!

Alpha Strike can be a little rough when compared to certain other systems, but its the simpler game for Battletech, and good for learning the basics of calculating fire solutions (even if the values are a little different).

 Eilif wrote:
I bet Battletech looks great on Heroscape terrain.

It works rather well, for the most part.

I'm not usually a fan of hex play but that looks great! I bought a ton of Heroscape to play with my son and a bunch of Planeswalkers (great hex boards...) but he ended up going straight to Grimdark future. At least there's some demand for the stuff these days...

As for the Alpha Strike rules, they're not hard at all, it had just been so long since we played that we were starting from scratch.

Is there a QRF somewhere listing all the special rules. We ended up just ignoring them. I think they'll add alot of flavor, but a reference sheet for them would be really helpfull to keep things moving. I considered just printing copies of the relavent pages from my rulebook, but what I really need is condensed versions that could all fit on one or two pages.

 Eilif wrote:
Is there a QRF somewhere listing all the special rules. We ended up just ignoring them. I think they'll add alot of flavor, but a reference sheet for them would be really helpfull to keep things moving. I considered just printing copies of the relavent pages from my rulebook, but what I really need is condensed versions that could all fit on one or two pages.

The QSR covers a few of them, but the Alpha Strike: Commander's Edition book is what has them all. I don't know if someone has made a quick reference guide for them. Some of them can be quite complex.

They can do more than add flavor (depending on the Special), but can completely change how a unit operates. They can also become more interesting when one looks in to things like Special Ammo. Also remember, too, that such things affect the Point Value, so by not using Specials, you could be nerfing your units.

CatalystGameLab wrote:
We have been hard at work updating our community guidelines. These guidelines will be in effect across all platforms that are operated by CGL.

We will have more information for the community in the coming weeks.

Another game of Alpha Strike in 10mm on Monday. Rasselhague vs Kurtia with a surprise appearance by LIAO commandos. Also served as a chance to see how much non cardboard N scale terrain I could scrape up.

If I can find the time, I've got some N scale structures I want to get finished.

beast_gts wrote:

CatalystGameLab wrote:
We have been hard at work updating our community guidelines. These guidelines will be in effect across all platforms that are operated by CGL.

We will have more information for the community in the coming weeks.

This seems to have a caused an outcry against CGL on Twitter/X.

I must have read it wrong. All I could realy see, was;

1. Be kind to each other
2. Don't post pirated material on CGL forums and CGL social media sites.

What did I miss for that to cause an outcry?

 Gimgamgoo wrote:
What did I miss for that to cause an outcry?

There's some discussion in the other B'Tech thread.

beast_gts wrote:

 Gimgamgoo wrote:
What did I miss for that to cause an outcry?

There's some discussion in the other B'Tech thread.

Cheers. Spotted it after I'd posted!

How many mechs would we say Alpha Strike tops out at for a reasonable game? We think uhh... about 64 Urbanmechs would be realistically playable in a ~3 hour game?

...asking for a friend....

That leaves you about 3 minutes for all interactions with any of those... so lol, no ^^