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Made in gb
Towering Hierophant Bio-Titan





Fareham

Hi all, while its not essential, I've decided a death alliance tactics thread would be of use here.

I keep seeing threads asking for advice or help with building a death army, so I thought it would be a good opportunity to start this thread where the community contribute their advice all in 1 place.

While alot of it seems pretty simple, I feel alot of the synergy is often overlooked.



So I'll start with a simple one:

Necromancer - 120
30 zombies - 180
30 zombies - 180
Corpse cart - 80

High model count for the base of the army.
Both units of zombies merge at the start (still fills the battle line but boost the unit)

The zombies are boosted to hitting and wounding on 3's because of unit size.
The corpse cart boosts hits to 2's
The necromancer can then use his basic spell to allow them to pile in and attack again.


So the worsed unit in the game is suddenly hitting stupidly well.
The footprint of the unit is huge, allowing it to also work as a screen.
The banner is bringing back D6 models every hero phase, along with a chance of models they kill also boosting the unit.
That's all for 560 points in the GHB.

Throw in a mourngul and its just shy of 1k and stupidly strong.




So, community advice?

   
Made in de
Experienced Maneater






You still only wound on 6+ if I'm not missing something. So yeah, 2+/6+? I don't think that's too good.
A lot of the Zombies wouldn't even be able to attack, with such a big unit.
BUT with a Mourngul thrown in? You can bind a lot of units and the Mourngul picks them off one by one. That could work very well.

   
Made in gb
Towering Hierophant Bio-Titan





Fareham

The special rule "dragged down and torn apart" specifically states it improves both hit and wound rolls

So with the above setup, 2+/3+
Easy way to pour wounds onto units or a big model.

   
Made in de
Experienced Maneater






 Jackal wrote:
The special rule "dragged down and torn apart" specifically states it improves both hit and wound rolls

So with the above setup, 2+/3+
Easy way to pour wounds onto units or a big model.

Right, sorry. This makes this a whole lot better.

Very good start for a Zombie-based Death army.

   
Made in gb
Towering Hierophant Bio-Titan





Fareham

Also, for another boost, run death alliance.

Trait: deathless minions.
Command trait: ruler of the night.
Artifact: ring of immortality.


The trait allows you to get a 6+ save after saves against mortal and normal wounds.
The command trait boosts that to a 5+ on the deathless minions near the necromancer.
The ring then allows the necromancer to come back to life once.

So instantly your army suffers 1/3 less wounds than normal.



Edit: and to make it better, the necromancer's rules let him pass wounds to a near by friendly unit on a 4+
So the necromancer can take a fair bit of punishment all of a sudden.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/10/11 11:18:31


   
Made in se
Regular Dakkanaut




Are Tomb Kings strategy and tactics welcome here, or do you prefer the thread to stick to the current Death factions?
   
Made in gb
Towering Hierophant Bio-Titan





Fareham

Tomb kings are still listed as death so I'm more than happy for those to be posted here too.

   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




If we are including tomb kings a great combo is using a screaming skull catapult and a terrorgheist. It makes it easier to scream units with bravery 10.
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle






So a misconception I see a lot that is probably worth mentioning is death and summoning. Death is completely, perfectly viable as a faction WITHOUT summoning. Many people have seen the nerf to summons in the GHB and concluded that death is somehow crippled by that and it simply isn't true. To go into a similar notion, Flesh Eaters are especially not weak without it. Why? Because all of the courtiers can bring back dead models into existing units, the Flesh-Eater method of doing this is uniquely flexible and better than the standard bearers of other undead units (chariots and snake surfers aside).

With that out of the way, lets talk Flesh Eaters in general. Flesh-Eater units are no longer strong as/with support from other death elements but rather are best run as a faction on their own. This is because the units are individually sub-par for the most part and barring some nice synergy with screamers and skull catapults (see above) their abilities only work to help each other. A half-'Eater army is going to be held back because its ghoulish portions won't perform very well. However a full-'Eater army is much stronger than it may seem. Courtiers are cheap enough to hang back early-game without undermining your combat strength much while also being fighty enough to jump in at the end and help finish off weakened enemies. Combined with their ability to bring back models into the units they are initially hiding behind this makes courtiers a powerful asset. Ghoul troops tend to have poor saves but decent offense and decent wounds count, meaning that with the benefits of death allegiance (for the extra 'save') and courtiers staving off attrition they can out-grind a large variety of enemies.

Now, matched play in general favors battalions. They are cheap, give deployment benefits, grant an extra artifact (great for those courtiers we were talking about), on top of the bonus they give themselves. Ghoul Patrol is so potent and convenient for Flesh-Eaters that its basically auto-include at 2000 points. This battalion requires three basic ghoul units (which fill your battleline requirements), a ghast courtier (which buffs said ghouls), then a small point tax for the battalion itself. This lets all three ghoul units and the courtier show up from any board edge more than 9" from the enemy in your first movement page. Then, it allows each unit to bring back 1d6 dead models every hero phase (note this is on top of the models the courtier can bring back himself). Between the price for the units and the battalion, all of this adds up to a mere 500 points. That is assuming minimum sized ghoul units, though personally I would recommend spending a bit extra to bump the unit size of one unit to 20 for extra combat effectiveness.

So in summary for you aspiring Flesh-Eater players:
-Run all Flesh-Eaters or none, don't go with half measures.
-Courtiers are awesome.
-Take Ghoul Patrol.

Road to Renown! It's like classic Path to Glory, but repaired, remastered, expanded! https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/778170.page

I chose an avatar I feel best represents the quality of my post history.

I try to view Warhammer as more of a toolbox with examples than fully complete games. 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





I can't add much, so I'll just list things I've discovered in my limited AoS experiences.

Mournguls are, in fact, all that and a bag of chips. They can take on a wide variety of enemies and grind them down. They might not have the outright killing power of some other monsters, but they are the perfect happy medium between tanks and choppy and are probably underpriced by 100-150 points.

The Vampire Lord's command ability is fantastic. Stacked with Danse Macabre and 3 extra ranks, a Spear Skelly unit is incredibly killy.

The Vampire Lord on Abyssal Terror has an amazing spell for slingshotting Mournguls, Terrorgheists or Blood Knights right where you need them turn one. I haven't tried the Tomb King character that also doubles movement, but the theoretical shenanigans that team can create are juicy.

Blood Knights are, in my opinion, the second or third best cavalry in the game. With a little buffing they will eviscerate almost anything on the charge, and getting dead models back for free makes their 3 wounds even more ridiculous, not to mention the healing and that they can easily have a 3+ save.

Zombies are wonderful for a variety of reasons, but I wouldn't run them in blocks of less than 40. They need their rank bonuses if they're going to accomplish anything further than being fertilizer for the battlefield.

Dire wolves are excellent screening and chaff units, and are surprisingly effective bully units. A minimum sized unit never has to fear battleshock, so sending them headlong into a block of archers is totally viable.

That's all for now, I guess.
   
Made in us
Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer




Tampa, FL

In my experienced, albeit very limited (only a handful of games) I currently find them fairly weak to middling at best, despite seeing a lot of people saying they are strong. I find that the courtiers die trivially easy against anyone with any sort of shooting or magic. The few games I've played I've had them sniped by Kurnoth Hunters, Empire Free Guild Archers, a Bastilodon, various wizard types with Arcane Bolt. I also find that in general the FEC units can't really hit hard, and can't weather hits even with Deathless Minions. I almost certainly need more experience with the army, but right now they seem like a largely ineffective horde that relies on easily-killed characters to give them the replenishing ability, and a general on a big scary monster who can tear things apart but also has a huge target on him. I have yet to try the Ghoul Patrol though (it's the next thing on my list).

I'm also curious about people's thoughts on Crypt Horrors vs. Crypt Flayers. I tend to prefer the Horrors, but I find with no Rend they can't really touch anything with any sort of armor, and while they are tanky they also are hit by virtually everything; my experience is a lot of wounds is meaningless when everything hits you, because everything can nickle and dime you to death. I have to get another 3 Flayers so I can try out 6 of them, because having the Rend plus chance for Mortal Wounds seems like it's better than 2 damage with a chance for 3 per strike in most cases.

- Wayne
Formerly WayneTheGame 
   
Made in us
Trigger-Happy Baal Predator Pilot






Crypt Horrors are amazing in units of 6 with either a Ghoul King or with the Attendants at Court Warscroll Battalion for the re-rolls. The ability to cause 2 or 3 damage per failed save is huge with 19 attacks from a full health squad. A sneaky way to get a Courtier in play is to use the Ghoul King on Zombie Dragon's command ability. That way you can bring him in and immediately replenish a squad vs having him being sniped by ranged. Ideally they want to fight units with 4+ save or worse because of how many wounds you can cause.
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle






Flayers are your squishy but killy fast unit. However, they do become OP when used with the Deadwatch battalion.

In regards to courtiers getting sniped, try having your army general (with master of the night for a 5+ deathless minions) be a unit champion instead of a hero. This means your enemy has to chew through the whole unit (that your courtiers can add models back into) before they can kill your general to shut down the 5+.

Road to Renown! It's like classic Path to Glory, but repaired, remastered, expanded! https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/778170.page

I chose an avatar I feel best represents the quality of my post history.

I try to view Warhammer as more of a toolbox with examples than fully complete games. 
   
Made in us
Auspicious Aspiring Champion of Chaos






 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Flayers are your squishy but killy fast unit. However, they do become OP when used with the Deadwatch battalion.

In regards to courtiers getting sniped, try having your army general (with master of the night for a 5+ deathless minions) be a unit champion instead of a hero. This means your enemy has to chew through the whole unit (that your courtiers can add models back into) before they can kill your general to shut down the 5+.


Only problem with using a non-courtier as your general is that it leaves you stuck with Ghouls as your only battleline choice. You have to name a courtier as the general in order to use his corresponding unit as battleline (e.g. a Crypt Infernal Courtier general allows Crypt Flayer battleline).

2000 Khorne Bloodbound (Skullfiend Tribe- Aqshy)
1000 Tzeentch Arcanites (Pyrofane Cult - Hysh) in progress
2000 Slaves to Darkness (Ravagers)
 
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle






 EnTyme wrote:
 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Flayers are your squishy but killy fast unit. However, they do become OP when used with the Deadwatch battalion.

In regards to courtiers getting sniped, try having your army general (with master of the night for a 5+ deathless minions) be a unit champion instead of a hero. This means your enemy has to chew through the whole unit (that your courtiers can add models back into) before they can kill your general to shut down the 5+.


Only problem with using a non-courtier as your general is that it leaves you stuck with Ghouls as your only battleline choice. You have to name a courtier as the general in order to use his corresponding unit as battleline (e.g. a Crypt Infernal Courtier general allows Crypt Flayer battleline).
That's fine, because FEC should be taking Ghoul Patrol anyway.

Road to Renown! It's like classic Path to Glory, but repaired, remastered, expanded! https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/778170.page

I chose an avatar I feel best represents the quality of my post history.

I try to view Warhammer as more of a toolbox with examples than fully complete games. 
   
Made in us
Auspicious Aspiring Champion of Chaos






 NinthMusketeer wrote:
 EnTyme wrote:
 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Flayers are your squishy but killy fast unit. However, they do become OP when used with the Deadwatch battalion.

In regards to courtiers getting sniped, try having your army general (with master of the night for a 5+ deathless minions) be a unit champion instead of a hero. This means your enemy has to chew through the whole unit (that your courtiers can add models back into) before they can kill your general to shut down the 5+.


Only problem with using a non-courtier as your general is that it leaves you stuck with Ghouls as your only battleline choice. You have to name a courtier as the general in order to use his corresponding unit as battleline (e.g. a Crypt Infernal Courtier general allows Crypt Flayer battleline).
That's fine, because FEC should be taking Ghoul Patrol anyway.


That depends on the type of game. If you're playing pure killpoints, the Deadwatch is probably the FEC's best option.

2000 Khorne Bloodbound (Skullfiend Tribe- Aqshy)
1000 Tzeentch Arcanites (Pyrofane Cult - Hysh) in progress
2000 Slaves to Darkness (Ravagers)
 
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle






I suppose if your local community does a killpoint-style game then that's true. I usually assume the pitched battle scenarios, which dont have a killpoint instance.

Road to Renown! It's like classic Path to Glory, but repaired, remastered, expanded! https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/778170.page

I chose an avatar I feel best represents the quality of my post history.

I try to view Warhammer as more of a toolbox with examples than fully complete games. 
   
 
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