Hmm interesting tidbit I've found on their FB page
We are working on WarGods kickstarter for June and Chris has already finished a dozen new Trojan and Amazon miniatures. We are not going to show off pictures until we are a little closer to the launch date!
I think this is a bit of a good move for Crocodile. Honestly if you check the Crocodile site, its pretty much dead. While their range is actually quite sizable, the past year or so has seen very small updates. Not to mention beyond people looking for some type of Tomb King proxy, I havent seen much actual playing of the games. Maybe a KS is what they need to get back in the (war) game!
Edit: Heres the info on the KS
Seems to primarily be focused on Olympus
Things have been a little quiet here on the Croc page for last few months, as we have been working behind-the-scenes on something big: the WarGods Kickstarter!
We are putting the final touches to a Kickstarter project that will launch at the beginning of June and run throughout that month. The goal will be to fund the production and printing of the WarGods of Olympus rulebook, and to get the latest miniatures into production, including new Demigods, Trojans, Amazons -- and possibly much more if the campaign is successful!
So how can you help? Apart from backing the project, we need help spreading the word. The more people we can get to tell their friends, their family, their gaming group, the better chance that we’ll be able to meet our target goal and get the book printed and the miniatures produced. The more success we have with this Kickstarter, the better we’ll be able to make the final product, but we can’t do it without your help. We would appreciate you forwarding these updates to your friends via social media like Facebook, twitter or blogs, miniature websites and forums that you are a part of, email, word of mouth, smoke signals, every little bit will help!
Chris & Debs FitzPatrick Crocodile Games
So without further ado, here is a sneak peak of the first of the miniatures to be featured in the Kickstarter project… the Trojans! Swiped from Fitz’ sculpting desk while he was not looking! There were lots more in progress as well, watch out for more photos here between now and the beginning of June!
the units are pretty much in blocks of ten, so that would make a good single sprue, or five on each...
the pewter is really hard, so the minis are a bitch to prep...
the sculpts are great though...
Fitz has a lot of talent, and his other sculptors are pretty good, too...
i hope this works out, as the Croc crew are all great people and artists...
the background is fun and unique, and Olympus and Hyperboria are cool settings as well...
a Croc resurgence would be awesome...
I'm looking forward to this. I love Chris Fitzpatrick's miniatures and I love mythology. I bought the Wargods of Aegyptus rulebook when it was on sale for 10 dollars. It's definitely not a super-competitive, tight ruleset, but it's got a lot of RPG flavoring and looks like a lot of fun.
It's rather unfortunate that they're not more popular. I'm pretty sure Fitz runs the entire shebang (well, except casting and printing, probably) out of his own house.
It's my full intention to spend an irresponsibly large amount of money with them when I graduate and get a job.
As for the size of the game, the minimum size army they recommend for demo games is 1200 pts, and that would include roughly 40-50 models.
Nearly did. As it was, they burned the retailers that originally carried em pretty badly, something about after the initial release they were refusing to sell wholesale to stores while offering discounts to people who bought directly from their website. Think the 40k debacle with the internet-only flyer book only on a smaller (but more personal) scale. Burned the owner of my FLGS bad enough he'd deliberately cause a scene and call the owner out on it at any convention that Crocodile showed up at.
Never affected my opinion of the game itself terribly much though, that was all industry-insider drama. I was more put off because it was unit-based instead of a skirmish game than I was by any problem the LGS owner had with the company. Made it a bit too expensive for a game I wasn't sure would last and would have trouble finding people to play it with. Also, while I've always thought they made really nice figs, they just seem to take forever to release anything. If they go plastic/resin, color me interested.
If they did a ks to make all their current stuff resin or plastic I would be all over it. I have often wanted to make a Thousand Sons allied daemon force with all that Egyptian themed goodness...
I think that Crocodile games has just gotten a bit lost in the crowd of alternate games that are on the market. Also, Fantasy is also not as popular as Sci Fi. They may have been hurt that Warhammer Fantasy is not doing as well, as people are not using their models as proxys.
Given that their stuff is all metal, it is not that expensive. You get 10 man squads for 36 bucks. This is less than goldswords, and they are plastic.
Well they're pretty much dead at the moment. They only had a few sporadic releases over the least year
Isnt another attributed cause to their downfall is the rapid expansion of their games? They have 3 whole books, though I'm not sure the hyperborean one is as fleshed out as their aegyptus
They have one whole book, one playtest book they have brought to GenCon for many many years, and minis for the other but no real book, playtest or otherwise, for it. I think they may have some art assets for it they have shown, but that is about it. I check the booth every year at GenCon and it hasn't changed in 4 years at least.
I'd totally be game for a Crocodile Games kickstarter. I love their range and Aegyptus is super fun, but the lack of updates is killing me! Excited to see what they're going to put out.
Well they're pretty much dead at the moment. They only had a few sporadic releases over the least year
Isnt another attributed cause to their downfall is the rapid expansion of their games? They have 3 whole books, though I'm not sure the hyperborean one is as fleshed out as their aegyptus
Their downfall/dead period was due to Chris Fitzpatrick trying to play games with the US and UK government over taxes, aka not paying them. Stems from his time when he was working in the UK for GW.. The IRS caught up with a few years ago and he has been trying get out from underneath it. Chris mentioned it in the New Years 2012 post on the CG forum that he was having tax problems and several of the guys who play the game at my FLGS and know him personally clarified it.
Sounded like he was almost out of the woods and trying to rev things back up.
*edit* just to clarify before GW bashers jump in. GW had zero involvement in this. It was Chris failing to report income to the IRS by saying he was working in the UK and paying taxes to to the UK.
Well they're pretty much dead at the moment. They only had a few sporadic releases over the least year
Isnt another attributed cause to their downfall is the rapid expansion of their games? They have 3 whole books, though I'm not sure the hyperborean one is as fleshed out as their aegyptus
Their downfall/dead period was due to Chris Fitzpatrick trying to play games with the US and UK government over taxes, aka not paying them.
wow that's pretty damning. I heard he had some tax problems but I had no idea he maliciously and willfully didn't pay his taxes. I has assumed it was some kind of clerical error where he dutifully paid his taxes but later found out the amount paid was wrong. The government(s) can be hard nosed and unforgiving about fines and penaltys if they feel payments are in error. when it comes to taxes what the government says goes and individuals have little recourse
back to the op
I hope this kickstarter is successful. hopefully it gets him out of trouble with the feds and the game generates more interest and I hope plastics are involved too.
wow that's pretty damning. I heard he had some tax problems but I had no idea he maliciously and willfully didn't pay his taxes. I has assumed it was some kind of clerical error where he dutifully paid his taxes but later found out the amount paid was wrong. The government(s) can be hard nosed and unforgiving about fines and penaltys if they feel payments are in error. when it comes to taxes what the government says goes and individuals have little recourse
back to the op
I hope this kickstarter is successful. hopefully it gets him out of trouble with the feds and the game generates more interest and I hope plastics are involved too.
He tired to be an international accountant and play the two codes off each other and minimize his taxes. When the IRS called him on it several years later, it went south. Didn't sound malicious, just more poorly thought out.
Realize my initial post sounds more accusatory than it should be.
Yeah, I would absolutely love to see Wargods stuff in plastic, especially because pretty much every non-specialist model in-game can take any weapon or armor in the rulebook. So while the rules encourage customization, it's a pain to actually do it with metal.
If the Kickstarter involves re-releasing the existing range in plastic or restic, I'll find it very hard to resist. I've been tempted by this game for a while now, but having to carry around so much metal really put me off.
cybogoblin wrote: If the Kickstarter involves re-releasing the existing range in plastic or restic, I'll find it very hard to resist. I've been tempted by this game for a while now, but having to carry around so much metal really put me off.
Their post didnt seem to indicate any remaking. Just new stuff
the Trojan looks great...
i have a bunch of their Spartans and Myceneans, and they are awesome sculpts...
as much as i like the Egyptian influence, it's the Greeks that make me want to paint...
Commander Cain wrote: If they did a ks to make all their current stuff resin or plastic I would be all over it. I have often wanted to make a Thousand Sons allied daemon force with all that Egyptian themed goodness...
I did this years ago, only it was my Tomb Kings army.
Talking with my source close to Crocodile, Fitzpatrick is going to be coming out both guns blazing. Don't expect any of this "here are some concepts" stuff most the KS are doing. He has a large number of greens already done and sounds like they are putting his old stuff to shame.
I think this KS is missing the mark. They should look to convert the existing range to a cheaper (relative) to produce and easier to consume material. The KS should build infrastructure for this possibility. Give PDF of old rules with KS as bonus. New rule and units could be a second KS in 12 months. Just my opinion. Love the sculpts and own a couple but I'd never buy into the game. All metal skirmish games is sooo 2004 (looking at you too dark age).. All metal battle games? Only in 15mm thank you.
Guys I really don;t think ti is fair to speculate as to whether or not Fitz purposely tried to cheat on his taxes. For all you know he did in fact follow the codes top the best of his ability. People make honest tax mistakes all the time.
I am REALLY glad top see this happenign as War Gods was the second big attraction to Miniatures after Celtos for me. If that sculpt is any indication fo what he has in store then I am REALLY lookign forward to the WGKS!!
I think this KS is missing the mark. They should look to convert the existing range to a cheaper (relative) to produce and easier to consume material. The KS should build infrastructure for this possibility. Give PDF of old rules with KS as bonus. New rule and units could be a second KS in 12 months. Just my opinion. Love the sculpts and own a couple but I'd never buy into the game. All metal skirmish games is sooo 2004 (looking at you too dark age).. All metal battle games? Only in 15mm thank you.
Corvus Belli seems to be doing just fine with their all metal Infinity line. Crocodile's stuff looks great, is easy to assemble, and is cheap in comparison to other metal minis.
There are ALL kinds of pitfalls associated with plastics production. Not least of which is reduction of quality of detail, but also you have a MUCH more costly thresh hold for expansion AND a much more lengthy production / delivery delay. QC issues, restock thresh hold issues. etc./ etc.
With metal production is quick, nimble, more easily managed and reliable.
It is also worth pointing out that cardboard is even better to work with from the manufacturing side. Cheap, light, easy to mass produce or cut to order. It's superior in sooo many ways.
If only those fool customers would buy it! Or metal! Damn their preferences!
There are ALL kinds of pitfalls associated with plastics production. Not least of which is reduction of quality of detail, but also you have a MUCH more costly thresh hold for expansion AND a much more lengthy production / delivery delay. QC issues, restock thresh hold issues. etc./ etc.
With metal production is quick, nimble, more easily managed and reliable.
That great. It doesn't change the fact that lots of folks don't want to deal with metal anymore.
I mean, Tre, didnt you just KS a bunch of models into troll cast?
Automatically Appended Next Post: And yikes. The WarGods starting stretch goals level is at $160. Rough.
$20 for one model? I suppose it will cost even more through retail, even with a discount? It's a shame it's so expensive. I see two whole models I like in this KS.
I'm not trying to be mean--I wanted to like this project--but the cost of entry was a bit of a shock.
PS: I have lots of plastic Greeks already, from at least 3 companies. I don't understand why Wargods is trying to horn in on this market. Someone explain, as you would a child.
i'll explain what i see, but i don't have any inside info, Bob...
as the Demi-Gods are $11.95 retail, i am thinking that these new ones, and the resculpts of the older ones, are a bit bigger...
i could be wrong, and the $20 pledge is a horrible deal unless there are a couple of add-ons later...
not sure...
to be fair, i just got Skaarls from Raging Heroes, who is metal, and costs $22.50...
i love the mini, but she is way more delicate and a bit more expensive than Croc minis...
Croc has a very distinct sculpting style for their minis, and the casts are great...
i've not had a single miscast from them in ten years of collecting their minis...
the minis are also a bit chunkier (in a good way) compared to Infinity or RH, making for good connection points, and no broken bits...
the $160 warband entry pledge gets you 28 minis, so that's about $6 a fig...
sounds like a good deal...
the art for the book is amazing...
John and Des are two great ex-GW illustrators, who have distinct styles...
most importantly, these are not "Greeks", they are "Olympians"...
this is a mythological setting, not historical...
there are Demi-Gods, Satyrs, Titans, and more creatures to come like Centaurs and Harpies...
for those people, like me, who don't really care for historicals, Croc scratches the itch of cool Egyptian, Nordic, and Greek settings with all of the fantasy elements that made Warhammer more appealing than historical games...
i don't do Kickstarter, so i have no reason other than a love for the artists involved, and as a fan of the settings and sculpts, to say all this...
i love metal (as well as plastic and real resin, but not restic or Finecast) and don't care how much a mini costs if it is a must have...
quite a few of Fitz's sculpts have fallen into the must have category for me over the years...
i wish them all the best, and hope they succeed...
i'll definitely be rounding out my collection of Demi-Gods when these hit shops after the Kickstarter...
Could you link me Tre. I didn't pledge it and am therefore unfamiliar with the "mess."
Automatically Appended Next Post: Nevermind. Just read through the updates on the KS page. While I empathize with your troll cast problems, there are plenty of examples of other companies that are using restic, etc, that are doing just fine (and no, I don't include GW here).
I love the wargods aesthetic. I just don't have any interest in all metal when that's really not the direction the industry seems to be heading. It seems like a step back.
Jah-Joshua, thank you for the discussion. I also love many of the Wargods sculpts. I have a ton of the Egyptian stuff, which is why I was so surprised at the high cost for the KS. I guess I'll have to wait for retail, when the prices become more reasonable.
I made my comment about the plastic greeks mostly because it seems like the bulk of the rewards in this KS are either very expensive demigods or units of metal models that many fans of greek mythology probably bought in plastic already. However, if there are enough people who don't think the plastic kits are fantastical enough, consider my concern invalid.
(For example, the KS page references the old stop-motion Harryhausen films. Those films are why I bought the WGF greeks and skeletons, as well as some Reaper figures, some Immortal figures, and so on.. It just made me think Crocodile Games was late to the party.)
When these were originally released, they were awesome minis. With some forsight, they could have been the beginning of Hordes as iirc they came out around the first time Warmachine came out. The leaders ( harbingers) for these groups were incredible and looked specifically designed to compete with Fantasy models hq choices. I had many of these minis and each army played a bit different than the others. Just seems like most of the ex GW employees try to get in a pissing match with their prior employer instead of focusing on better minis and game play. Who knows, maybe Chris can head over to Mantic.
Nice models. I looked at the Olympians as models "just to paint" until I saw the price. $120 (+$19) for 8 miniatures? No thanks. Especially not as a Kickstarter.
Yeah I don't use metal for rank and file as it just gets to expensive. It's the only reason I have not jumped on RBG KS even though i really want the Njorn. Oh yeah and the $55.00 international shipping as well keeps me out of this.
This is Chris FitzPatrick, I thought I'd stop by and answer any questions/concerns about the Croc Kickstarter.
First off, thanks to the guys here who have been posting updates, I really appreciate the help spreading the word!
Overseas shipping cost On the subject of international shipping cost. Yeah, the cost that the USPS charges sucks, but there isn't anything we can do about that. The problem is that for the reward levels that include the book, there is no way to send it inexpensively due to the size and weight. To help solve this we've added some 'buddy' reward levels, so two guys can team up on their order, and effectively cut the cost of shipping for each of them in half.
Price of Minis Please keep in mind, this is 'Day 1' of a 30-day program. Our goal is to raise the funds to print a 250 page book and produce a range of 30+ new miniatures -- once we reach the basic funding goal, then we can start adding extras to the reward levels that will bring the cost-per-mini down. If some of you guys are sitting on the fence, check back in a week or so. We have some cool stretch goals planned that are going to make a big difference if we can achieve them.
Monsters and bigger minis As for more mythic units - these are more that are planned and will be unlocked as the program goes on, like Harpies, Cerberus, Cyclopses, and more.
I hope this info helps clear up our strategy on this, and I'm happy to answer any other questions you guys might have.
wow that's pretty damning. I heard he had some tax problems but I had no idea he maliciously and willfully didn't pay his taxes. I has assumed it was some kind of clerical error where he dutifully paid his taxes but later found out the amount paid was wrong. The government(s) can be hard nosed and unforgiving about fines and penaltys if they feel payments are in error. when it comes to taxes what the government says goes and individuals have little recourse
back to the op
I hope this kickstarter is successful. hopefully it gets him out of trouble with the feds and the game generates more interest and I hope plastics are involved too.
He tired to be an international accountant and play the two codes off each other and minimize his taxes. When the IRS called him on it several years later, it went south. Didn't sound malicious, just more poorly thought out.
Realize my initial post sounds more accusatory than it should be.
Jeez, I don't know who makes this stuff up, but this stuff is just not true.
Simple, honest mistakes on taxes can end up costing a lot of money. I'm an artist, not an accountant - the moral of the story is that it is not a good idea to try to do your own taxes. I settled all this stuff months ago - we only shared the information publicly to let our customers know why production of new miniatures had slowed down last year. Really guys, it wasn't that bad, and the IRS lady just laughed about it -- and sent me the bill.
Jeez, I don't know who makes this stuff up, but this stuff is just not true.
Simple, honest mistakes on taxes can end up costing a lot of money. I'm an artist, not an accountant - the moral of the story is that it is not a good idea to try to do your own taxes. I settled all this stuff months ago - we only shared the information publicly to let our customers know why production of new miniatures had slowed down last year. Really guys, it wasn't that bad, and the IRS lady just laughed about it -- and sent me the bill.
This is Chris FitzPatrick, I thought I'd stop by and answer any questions/concerns about the Croc Kickstarter.
First off, thanks to the guys here who have been posting updates, I really appreciate the help spreading the word!
Overseas shipping cost On the subject of international shipping cost. Yeah, the cost that the USPS charges sucks, but there isn't anything we can do about that. The problem is that for the reward levels that include the book, there is no way to send it inexpensively due to the size and weight. To help solve this we've added some 'buddy' reward levels, so two guys can team up on their order, and effectively cut the cost of shipping for each of them in half.
Price of Minis Please keep in mind, this is 'Day 1' of a 30-day program. Our goal is to raise the funds to print a 250 page book and produce a range of 30+ new miniatures -- once we reach the basic funding goal, then we can start adding extras to the reward levels that will bring the cost-per-mini down. If some of you guys are sitting on the fence, check back in a week or so. We have some cool stretch goals planned that are going to make a big difference if we can achieve them.
Monsters and bigger minis As for more mythic units - these are more that are planned and will be unlocked as the program goes on, like Harpies, Cerberus, Cyclopses, and more.
I hope this info helps clear up our strategy on this, and I'm happy to answer any other questions you guys might have.
--Fitz
Thanks for the info - I hope it all goes welland will keep my eye on it.
the artwork looks great - follows nicely on from the WoA
Couple of questions:
There are some great Trojan wars novels about - which one would you say is most like WoO?
Are the Demi-Gods the Same as Harbringers so they are not the Gods themselves but an embodiment of their powers - Are the Olympian Gods still around?
Models love to see
Artemis and her Nymphs out hunting
Centaurs
Can we have some Scythian Cavalry - big fan of the Tryant novels
I have to ask, though, if you have considered not-metal at all. It's one of the promary things keeping me from some of the minis. I especially love the Yeti line, but I just don't have any interest In any all metal model that large.
Resin...Restic...any chance of that in the future?
Thanks for the info - I hope it all goes welland will keep my eye on it.
the artwork looks great - follows nicely on from the WoA
Couple of questions:
There are some great Trojan wars novels about - which one would you say is most like WoO?
Are the Demi-Gods the Same as Harbringers so they are not the Gods themselves but an embodiment of their powers - Are the Olympian Gods still around?
Models love to see
Artemis and her Nymphs out hunting
Centaurs
Can we have some Scythian Cavalry - big fan of the Tryant novels
Glad you like the WarGods artwork -- Dakka fans should enjoy it, we're all GW Studio veterans.
Demigods are the sons and daughters of the gods - like Heracles/Hercules was the son of Zeus. They are gifted with powers associated with their parent god. In the game rules the work basically the same as an Aegyptian Harbinger, and if a Demigod & Harbinger fought, the winner would take the divine power of the defeated.
The Olympian Gods are still around. They are making all the Demigods, and causing all the mischief!
While that would be great if hé did work for someone else I'd rather go to PP and start on legion. Him and Remy together, though? That would be a force to reckon with.
I mean, imagine how good Wildcard would have looked if done by Chris...
He's an amazing sculptor. I have some Wargods stuff just because I love his work so much. No interest in the game, sadly.
Great to see this reach the target so quickly, but I do have a couple of suggestions.
1. Please update the main page to include the stretch goal(s). If they're already there, I can't find them.
2. Don't make all of your Updates 'Backer Only', especially if you're going to preview stretch goals there.
Someone coming into this project in a week or so might be turned off if they see a project that's made its goal (and then some) without any published stretch goals. Oh, and putting them up on the Crocodile Games site doesn't count. It's the old rule of the internet: the less clicks is better than more clicks.
Looking forward to seeing more previews. The Myceneans are my current favourites with the Amazons a close second.
scarletsquig wrote: Perhaps someone can repost the backer only updates here?
Hey Guys,
Sorry, I didn't realize that Updates were only visible to Backers unless specifically changed. I'll be making all the Updates visible to everyone from here on out.
--Fitz
Here's the updates so far:
Goal Achieved - Thank You!
Update #2 - For backers only · Jun 2, 2013 · 3 comments Good morning everyone - we woke up to see that we made it to our goal in a little over 24 hours! Thanks to all of our backers for the support, pledges and help spreading the word!
Now we can get to the really fun part - we've raised enough money to print the book and produce the Trojans and the Demigods. What is next??? We're now going to expand our goals to produce new factions and more miniatures. If we can reach some of these new 'Stretch Goals" we can make our reward levels even BETTER!
So without much further ado -- we are happy to reveal....the Amazons!
Amazon art by Des Hanley.
The Amazons are the legendary women warriors of northern Hellas. They are allies to the Trojans, and bitter enemies of the most other city-states. We've designed our amazons to look dangerous - these are not cheesecake pinup girls, but deadly, cruel warriors who mean business!
The Amazon warband will be unlocked when we get the $35,000 funding level - we'll be posting more photos of concept art and miniatures then. We are very excited, and we hope you are too!
Please continue to spread the word and help us make this kickstarter an even bigger success!
Backer avatars now available! Update #1 - For backers only · Jun 1, 2013 · 4 comments
Its been less than 24 hours since we launched and we are already 80% funded!! Thank you all for pledging early and for helping to spread the word about our project.
To celebrate we have made some backer avatars for you to use if you would like to show your Croc loyalty
They feature little snippets of color artwork that will feature in the finished game, thanks to our backer Mike for the cool suggestion!
I second the call to put up several stretch goals. It will give people an incentive to pledge.
I really like the stretch goal map. It is a nice touch.
Far from being expensive, the minis are still really cheap. The 10 man units are $36. This is what GW plastics USED to cost. They are half the cost of most other companies metal minis.
spaceelf wrote: I second the call to put up several stretch goals. It will give people an incentive to pledge.
I really like the stretch goal map. It is a nice touch.
Far from being expensive, the minis are still really cheap. The 10 man units are $36. This is what GW plastics USED to cost. They are half the cost of most other companies metal minis.
Depends on which ones you're looking at. I wanted to get the demigods to paint, but the best KS price available is $15 each. Which takes them out my "buy at retail" price range for random cool figures to paint - and certainly more than I'm willing to pay in a KS.
spaceelf wrote: Far from being expensive, the minis are still really cheap. The 10 man units are $36. This is what GW plastics USED to cost.
Lizardmen Saurus: $35 for 16. They're not quite as expensive as Goldswords, but that's nothing to be proud of.
When I posted I was thinking of the repacking of the Dire Avengers, which used to be 37 for 10 and are now 35 for 5.
In any case, the sculpts look great. I really like Poseidon. I wonder if there will be a faction for each of the demigods. There is Athena, and Athens is on the map. There is also the Forge of Hephaestus, and Amazonia.
I am curious Chris because looking at the addons I can save a few bucks just by getting the $1 then buying 4 demigods instead of paying the $65 for the 4. I'm not going to do that but it's something I noticed and am curious about cost wise.
spaceelf wrote: I second the call to put up several stretch goals. It will give people an incentive to pledge.
I really like the stretch goal map. It is a nice touch.
Far from being expensive, the minis are still really cheap. The 10 man units are $36. This is what GW plastics USED to cost. They are half the cost of most other companies metal minis.
OK guys, I've taken your advice and revealed a few more of the stretch goals. Thanks for the help!
--Fitz
Here's the updated map:
Here's the text description from the Update (public now, as requested):
Debs has made a cool map of Olympus - we're using it as a fun way to show off the stretch goals that we have planned. We've already achieved our basic goal of $25,000 - now we are expanding our goals, to unlock more options to purchase, add 'Freebie' miniatures to some selected reward levels, and make the book even better! The little Croc Logo represents our progress in the program; we start in Sparta and we follow the dotted line across Olympus to get to Troy. When we get to each new funding level, the stretch goal for that location is achieved!
25,000 - ACHIEVED!: The WarGods book, 8 Demigods, and Trojans have been funded! THANK YOU!
$35,000 - Amazons: We'll unlock an entire new faction of Amazons when we reach the $35,000 funding level. Once unlocked, you'll be able to select Amazons as your faction for any of the reward levels (Skirmish, Warband, and Army). We'll also include them in the Add-Ons for those who want to add allies to their existing force!
$40,000 - PDF Power! - UNLOCKED! Thank You!: We'll add a PDF version of the WarGods of Olympus rulebook for EVERY reward level above Watcher! The PDF will be sent when the book is ready in July, 2014. We'll also send out a quick-start PDF in September, when the Trojans & Demigods are complete!
$45,000 - Titan Hunter: A free Mycenaean Titan Hunter will be added to the Skirmish, Warband, Army, and Council of the Gods reward levels. This miniature is exclusive to the WarGods Kickstarter program and will not be available elsewhere.
$55,000 - Corinthians: We'll unlock an entire new faction of Corinthians when we reach the $55,000 funding level. Once unlocked, you'll be able to select Corinthians as your faction for any of the reward levels (Skirmish, Warband, and Army). We'll also include them in the Add-Ons for those who want to add allies to their existing force!
$60,000 - Dionysus, the God of Wine: A Dionysus miniature will be unlocked, and can be purchased as a Demigod option. It will be included at no extra charge in all Demigod x8 rewards (Painter x8, Council of the Gods, Council of the Gods UK, Olympian, Olympian UK.)
$65,000 - Oracle: A free Oracle of Delphi miniature will be added to the Skirmish, Warband, Army, and Council of the Gods reward levels. This miniature is exclusive to the WarGods Kickstarter program and will not be available elsewhere.
$75,000 - Athenians: We'll unlock an entire new faction of Athenians when we reach the $75,000 funding level.
$85,000 - ???: What lies ahead? Help us achieve our goals and we'll find out!
Thanks!
--Chris & Debs
PS: Oh, and as an added bonus - once the program is complete, we'll be making a high-resolution PDF of the Stretch Goal Map available to all of our backers. We'll remove all of the dotted lines and goals, but leave all the cities and cool stuff! Players will be free to print and use the map for home use in their WarGods of Olympus campaign games!
He just unlocked a free pdf for the rules for everyone above Watcher.
Hades, Hephaestus and Poseidon are some sweet models, and with the pdf I think the lower pledges have much better value. Just the excuse I need to pledge for some demigods.
I see you added in a miniatures-only pledge at the $165 level. Letting international customers save $80 by not getting the rulebook is a huge improvement.
Schmapdi wrote: Interesting - but why are they called "Demi-gods" - Poseidon, et al are full on gods. No demi about it!
They are earthly manifestations of the gods, not the gods themselves; more akin to chosen champions imbued with the gods power. Trying to remember how it worked in Wargods of Aegypt. I have it around here somewhere...
Schmapdi wrote: Also - why stop at 8? Why not do the full pantheon?
I imagine that will depend on the success of the KS.
Schmapdi wrote: Interesting - but why are they called "Demi-gods" - Poseidon, et al are full on gods. No demi about it!
Also - why stop at 8? Why not do the full pantheon?
In WarGods of Olympus, you play the son/daughter of a god and a mortal - a Demigod. So, a Demigod of Poseidon would be the son of Poseidon and a mortal woman (like Theseus, for a mythic example, or Heracles, son of Zeus). That is why some of the miniatures are not literal interpretations of the god's traditional image - they are their children, occasionally a little different from their parent.
Lots of painters just use them as the gods though, and that's OK too!
As for the rest of the pantheon, stay tuned -- if we can make it past Troy on the stretch goal map, I see Mount Olympus on there!
--Fitz
PS: And here's the latest one I just finished, Artemis:
Channeling my Inner Oracle to make a prediction about the higher level stretch goals- The Corinthian hero is Bellerophon, which leaves another Corinthian hero and his shipmate Heracles waiting in the wings for stretch goals down the line.
When the Athenians unlock, I may try to jump in if finances permit.
Will you be at GenCon this year? And if so, will any of these sculpts be shown off there?
Have you considered a tier designed for introducing two players? I know I have to drag my friends kicking and screaming into anything new, so i would have to have at least two forces to try games. Perhaps something like two Warband Starters and a rulebook.
Schmapdi wrote: Interesting - but why are they called "Demi-gods" - Poseidon, et al are full on gods. No demi about it!
Also - why stop at 8? Why not do the full pantheon?
In WarGods of Olympus, you play the son/daughter of a god and a mortal - a Demigod. So, a Demigod of Poseidon would be the son of Poseidon and a mortal woman (like Theseus, for a mythic example, or Heracles, son of Zeus). That is why some of the miniatures are not literal interpretations of the god's traditional image - they are their children, occasionally a little different from their parent.
Lots of painters just use them as the gods though, and that's OK too!
As for the rest of the pantheon, stay tuned -- if we can make it past Troy on the stretch goal map, I see Mount Olympus on there!
--Fitz
PS: And here's the latest one I just finished, Artemis:
Spoiler:
Isnt Artemis a virgin? So she wouldnt have a demigod.....
Will you be at GenCon this year? And if so, will any of these sculpts be shown off there?
Have you considered a tier designed for introducing two players? I know I have to drag my friends kicking and screaming into anything new, so i would have to have at least two forces to try games. Perhaps something like two Warband Starters and a rulebook.
We've got a couple reward levels that are set up for 2 players, where you get 2 warbands, 2 books, and even 2 sets of any of the freebie miniatures.
We're not going to have a booth at GenCon this year, we'll be knee-deep in production at that point for the first batch of miniatures. We'll be there next year, when the book is out.
Isnt Artemis a virgin? So she wouldnt have a demigod.....
Good point actually!!
So is Athena.........
Perhaps they produce demigods another way................
I was asked the same question on another forum, here's my answer...
We're going to go into this in the game text… there is some support in mythology for this sort of thing – for instance, in some versions of Athena's birth, she sprang fully-formed from the mind of Zeus when he conceived of the idea of her. So a child of the virgin goddess could well be born in an ancient 'immaculate conception', because the goddess wills it to happen. It would be in keeping with the very virginal nature of the goddess that her descendant was born of a virgin as well. The game is all about mythology, and miracles happen in myth all the time.
--Fitz
PS: stretch goals updated too, including Dionysus, the god of wine! Pic on the Kickstarter:
So question with all of these "unlocks" Chris does that mean you are going to completely remove the older versions from your store? don't get me wrong I love the new looks but just curious.
Empchild wrote: So question with all of these "unlocks" Chris does that mean you are going to completely remove the older versions from your store? don't get me wrong I love the new looks but just curious.
There are no plans to discontinue any of the current Demigods this year, but one all the new versions are done we may retire the old versions - but they'd still be available by special order from the store for as long as their molds hold out.
We're going to go into this in the game text… there is some support in mythology for this sort of thing – for instance, in some versions of Athena's birth, she sprang fully-formed from the mind of Zeus when he conceived of the idea of her. So a child of the virgin goddess could well be born in an ancient 'immaculate conception', because the goddess wills it to happen. It would be in keeping with the very virginal nature of the goddess that her descendant was born of a virgin as well. The game is all about mythology, and miracles happen in myth all the time.
I'm very interested in what the automatons look like (listed at the 90K mark). I hope it gets there... perhaps some teaser greens or a hero for them unlocked earlier would help, rather than waiting till 90K to unlock the whole faction.
Oracle (65K) is unlocked... any chance for art / WIPs / etc for any of the next stretches?
NEXT: $75,000 - Athenians: We'll unlock an entire new faction of Athenians when we reach the $75,000 funding level.
$80,000 - Reinforcements: All Peltast Units in all reward levels will be upgraded from 10 to 12 miniatures when we reach the $80,000 funding level.
$90,000 - Automatons: We'll unlock the bronze Automatons of Hephaestus when we reach the $90,000 funding level. These will be available as a purchasable Add-On, estimated shipping July 2014. A free Owl Automaton miniature will be added to all reward levels except Watcher and Warrior.
I'd really like to know what the Automatons are supposed to look like, to know if I'd be interested or not...!
So I explain this a lot go people because plastic tooling is not cheap. In fact one box can run you between 30-80k just to get the tooling done to make them. Plastic for small companies is just not viable plastic resin isn't bad though.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: Word on the street is that the old "$30k to $100k per sprue" chestnut is no longer accurate.
Source on this? Not meaning to be flippant, but actually curious as to what sprue costs are supposedly down to these days? I assume that is for production in China?
BobtheInquisitor wrote: Word on the street is that the old "$30k to $100k per sprue" chestnut is no longer accurate.
Source on this? Not meaning to be flippant, but actually curious as to what sprue costs are supposedly down to these days? I assume that is for production in China?
I said "word on the street" because so many threads discuss how businesses like PDC, Eccentric Minis, Proxie Models, Dreamforge, etc. are able to churn out kits for seemingly spare change in comparison. I have no actual source, or I would have linked to it and jumped up the snark. Mostly, I was debating the numbers in the scores of thousands of pounds range since they all seem to stem from an earlier era, with sources like "some guy at GW" or "Renedra, I guess".
Given the massive problems Dreamforge is experiencing due to outsourcing production to WGF in China, I would be wary of using them as a positive example of affordable production. They're looking at something crazy like 6-9 monts delay on Waves 2 and 3.
I've also researched this, and you can do some things for less. It really depends. But, obviously, PDC is making 4 or 5 sprues for 10K pounds. The line where small outfits can get access to non-metal casting is blurring / shifting a bit, which is a good thing.
Well Reaper does not tool the parts. they only have the casting machine. So they have the molds made in CHina and the then have those molds shipped here where they handle all of the actual casting. PRetty damned smart set-up.
tre manor wrote: Well Reaper does not tool the parts. they only have the casting machine. So they have the molds made in CHina and the then have those molds shipped here where they handle all of the actual casting. PRetty damned smart set-up.
Oddly enough true but I think we're all way off topic ATM. BTW reaper is still a big company and their kickstarter made over 3 mill so big difference.
I've got some experience in making plastics, I worked on a number of them when I worked at the GW Studio (Dark Elves, Dark Eldar). I've also done some research in the last couple years into producing plastic kits, and the prices I've been quoted started in the 30k usd range per sprue - just for the tooling - not production, and we don't even own any kind of injection machine. To give you some perspective, based on these prices I can make 300 molds for metal miniatures for the same cost as 1 plastic mold. With numbers like that, plastics just don't make sense for us yet.
We're not even getting into the area of quality either - for me, I personally prefer metal miniatures, rather than fragile plastics that fall over when I sneeze!
We're not even getting into the area of quality either - for me, I personally prefer metal miniatures, rather than fragile plastics that fall over when I sneeze!
--Fitz
I have never had any plastics do that. I've more metal minis tip over and bend or break for no reason, though. The only plastics I've had that broke were models I dropped a box full of textbooks on or stepped on while moving furniture, and I doubt any metals would have survived that,either.
However, it really isn't a dealbreaker here. I'm pledged already, and I am willing to deal with metal for amazing sculpts, which the demigods and Amazons are. Plastic is simply a much more exciting medium.
As for DFG, They are still producing plenty of wave 1 stuff, which is incredible in quality as well as utility. The delay between wave 1 and wave 2 is annoying, but I can hardly think of a Kickstarter that hasn't suffered such delays...or released depressingly poor models to make the deadline.
OK guys, the Oracle of Delphi has now been unlocked!
She's a free miniature that will be added added to most of the $160 reward levels (Council of the Gods, Skirmish, Warband, Army).
I'm going to be sculpting this one too, and looking forward to it!
--Fitz
At last your warband arrives at Delphi, and you ask the Oracle what is needed to defeat your enemies. Her answer is mysterious: "Only with arms of bronze and fiery hearts can you defeat the stallion-breaking sons of Troy. Yet with either victory or defeat, journey home will take you through lands from whence no mortal has ever returned."
So I explain this a lot go people because plastic tooling is not cheap. In fact one box can run you between 30-80k just to get the tooling done to make them. Plastic for small companies is just not viable plastic resin isn't bad though.
If the plastic tooling is 30-80K for a single box, how did DreamForge manage to tool two different Titans (!), with dozends of variant weapon-options, in both 28mm scale and 15mm, some 3 or 4 different infantry boxes, a whole APC with different weapon options, heavy weapon teams and an additional 3 or 4 Kickstarter-exclusive miniatures, all in injected hard-plastic, from a 200K Kickstarter?
And that is counting stuff like this as only "one" box
Spoiler:
Sure, DreamForge possibly may have had some additional finance besides Kickstarter, but at the costs for plastic tooling you're quoting, DreamForge would've been looking at costs between 1 Million and 2.8 million just for the tooling.
tre manor wrote: Well Reaper does not tool the parts. they only have the casting machine. So they have the molds made in CHina and the then have those molds shipped here where they handle all of the actual casting. PRetty damned smart set-up.
Oddly enough true but I think we're all way off topic ATM. BTW reaper is still a big company and their kickstarter made over 3 mill so big difference.
A recent Kickstarter made a bit under £11.000 and they'll be tooling 5 plastic molds for that money. The currently running Maki Games KS is financing one mold for about every $5k-10k pledged. Granted, these are simple CAD shapes and not fully detailed miniatures, but the difference in cost cannot be an order of magnitude.
The owl looks like fun. Guys he has already said no to the plastic so seriously just move on. If you want to know how dream forge did it then go ask them but most companies will tell you the same thing all of us who produce minis are saying. To that end let's leave that topic alone and just move on as it's already been answered.
Empchild wrote: The owl looks like fun. Guys he has already said no to the plastic so seriously just move on. If you want to know how dream forge did it then go ask them but most companies will tell you the same thing all of us who produce minis are saying. To that end let's leave that topic alone and just move on as it's already been answered.
I don't care how DreamForge did it. DreamForge is but one example that shows how wrong your numbers are.
I know the topic has been answered. But that doesn't mean evidently false statements like the one you made above should simple stand uncorrected.
Empchild wrote: The owl looks like fun. Guys he has already said no to the plastic so seriously just move on. If you want to know how dream forge did it then go ask them but most companies will tell you the same thing all of us who produce minis are saying. To that end let's leave that topic alone and just move on as it's already been answered.
I don't care how DreamForge did it. DreamForge is but one example that shows how wrong your numbers are.
I know the topic has been answered. But that doesn't mean evidently false statements like the one you made above should simple stand uncorrected.
OK now your just being rude. First of all mines not false as Chris said the same price and I have been quoted that price as well by both companies in the U.K and in China so instead of showing that you can be rude give it up and love on. If you don't like it don't buy it but my statement is not false as even SWM stated that cost recently. So by my count that's three miniature companies to your one trolling. Now if you want to maintain that our statements are lies then that's your choice but a fact is still a fact.
Empchild wrote: The owl looks like fun. Guys he has already said no to the plastic so seriously just move on. If you want to know how dream forge did it then go ask them but most companies will tell you the same thing all of us who produce minis are saying. To that end let's leave that topic alone and just move on as it's already been answered.
I don't care how DreamForge did it. DreamForge is but one example that shows how wrong your numbers are.
I know the topic has been answered. But that doesn't mean evidently false statements like the one you made above should simple stand uncorrected.
OK now your just being rude. First of all mines not false as Chris said the same price and I have been quoted that price as well by both companies in the U.K and in China so instead of showing that you can be rude give it up and love on. If you don't like it don't buy it but my statement is not false as even SWM stated that cost recently. So by my count that's three miniature companies to your one trolling. Now if you want to maintain that our statements are lies then that's your choice but a fact is still a fact.
Is it?
On this very page alone, there're three people pointing to three different companies that contradict your statement. If you count that as "one trolling", it's another fairly obvious indicator that you might want to brush up your math (and change your business partners).
The price Fitz is quoting is accurate for the services of the better quality molds and production methods ( impact resistant injection plastic. ) I have heard of companies charging as little as $5,000.00 per mold for the softer plastics but you are talking about a lower quality material and a significant loss of detail. I honestly do not know how Maki is going to profit from the models quoted above or IF that even is the actual model they are employing. Unless they are using some other manufacturer or unless the prices have dropped due to the recent explosion of plastics demand ( which honestly probably would cause prices to increase as availability decreases. ). It just seems AWFULLY cheap for plastics production.
Of course it may also have a lto to do with whatever Maki is making or the materials / methods beiong employed.
I'm guessing they (Maki) may be in a similar position to PDC with the owners also owning/being involved in another company that does tooling/injection moulding
If they had access to machines/machine time at 'cost' it would explain how they can do what they seem able to do
Noone's seen a Maki product yet. DreamForge, on the other hand is out there. It's as hard as GW's stuff, made with steel slide-core molds. It even has those ball-joints that make the Leviathan stand, yet remain fully poseable after (!) assembly. You cannot do that with "soft" plastic.
And even if they blew 100% of their Kickstarter-take on tooling, paying everything else out of a different source (incl. Shipping, Kickstarter-fees, the actual material and post-tooling production, the boxes, digital sculpting, whatever), they'd have to have done it in under 6K per box (with multiple sprues per box) to come out of it with zero-profit.
If I remember correctly, DreamForge has recently even been hiring, so they likely did significantly better.
Chris FitzPatrick wrote: I've got some experience in making plastics, I worked on a number of them when I worked at the GW Studio (Dark Elves, Dark Eldar). I've also done some research in the last couple years into producing plastic kits, and the prices I've been quoted started in the 30k usd range per sprue - just for the tooling - not production, and we don't even own any kind of injection machine. To give you some perspective, based on these prices I can make 300 molds for metal miniatures for the same cost as 1 plastic mold. With numbers like that, plastics just don't make sense for us yet.
We're not even getting into the area of quality either - for me, I personally prefer metal miniatures, rather than fragile plastics that fall over when I sneeze!
--Fitz
As already noted - this campaign isn't going plastic.
Please take all further Plastic discussions elsewhere.
Really though, if "at cost" access to the tooling machines makes an order of magnitude in difference, someone's profit margins are way, way out of whack. That's just gak, really. Why are 'traditionally' tooled plastics so damn expensive? well, for starters look at the cost of having someone pantograph the whole damn physical sculpt (and several times over, just to get the fine detail in everywhere with a plethora of different bits) as opposed to just getting a bunch of computer-controlled tools to work from a digital model - on a programme expressly set up in an efficient manner which is hard to get the 'traditional' way for starters. Now go have a look what it costs to manufacture really, REALLY detailed pieces of computer cut hardened metals. Yes, it's expensive. No, it's nowhere near the tens of thousands of dollars mentioned everywhere. not anymore. These things aren't dark magic - they're just that, detailed pieces of hard metals. No more. Now some issues remain: to get minis to cast up properly in that tool, you'll have to make sure that the vents are placed right etc. and that the mini itself has been correctly designed. The reason 'traditional' sculptors only used to rubber molded metal models get quoted 'insane' prices is that there's a LOT of work they simply can't do in advance - and a lot of sculpting might have to be 'fixed' for plastic production by the manufacturer. That costs money. Something like dreamforge's leviathans probably took a bunch of work like that as well - but at least he supplied them with a set of CAD files it's a lot easier to work from (and from what I gathered he seems to have done a lot of the work himself already). Malifaux plastics? Same thing, in all likelihood. So probably, everyone's sort of right. CG isn't set up for this - just doesn't have the expertise of the 21st century, so to say so yeah, they'd be out ~30K on a tool while someone using a more modern approach, who might just have a bit of education in the dos and don'ts of plastic production could be cheaper off. I know my money's going with the more modern approach, but let's quit calling each other liars, okay? Badly informed is probably more like it (and I'll readily admit I'm just as happily speculating away ).
edit sorry, was already typing when you posted. Really, I didn't write that block of text in under a minute
Chris FitzPatrick wrote: I've got some experience in making plastics, I worked on a number of them when I worked at the GW Studio (Dark Elves, Dark Eldar). I've also done some research in the last couple years into producing plastic kits, and the prices I've been quoted started in the 30k usd range per sprue - just for the tooling - not production, and we don't even own any kind of injection machine. To give you some perspective, based on these prices I can make 300 molds for metal miniatures for the same cost as 1 plastic mold. With numbers like that, plastics just don't make sense for us yet.
We're not even getting into the area of quality either - for me, I personally prefer metal miniatures, rather than fragile plastics that fall over when I sneeze!
--Fitz
As already noted - this campaign isn't going plastic.
Please take all further Plastic discussions elsewhere.
Chris I know Cavalry wasn't really prevalent in ancient Greece (until around Phillip of Macedonia) but do you have any plans to add any into the game in the feature? The reason I ask because Aegyptus has chariots (very commonly used since Ramses) and it would also be rather interesting with some of the play you could have with these. For example some nice looking Centaurs as almost no good ones exist on the market or Minioans riding bulls etc. Finally I do find it interesting that you kept the right breast of the Amazonians but I guess some myths don't translate well into miniatures .
Empchild wrote: Chris I know Cavalry wasn't really prevalent in ancient Greece (until around Phillip of Macedonia) but do you have any plans to add any into the game in the feature? The reason I ask because Aegyptus has chariots (very commonly used since Ramses) and it would also be rather interesting with some of the play you could have with these. For example some nice looking Centaurs as almost no good ones exist on the market or Minioans riding bulls etc. Finally I do find it interesting that you kept the right breast of the Amazonians but I guess some myths don't translate well into miniatures .
The Amazons are getting cavalry instead of chariots, and Centaurs will effectively be cavalry as well and usable by some Demigods.
The 'one breasted' idea of Amazons depends on what source it comes from. Most classical depictions of Amazons (like on the Parthenon) show them with two breasts. http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6022/5991309254_3229da938e_z.jpg And the Athenians are the people who claimed historically to have waged a war against the amazons, so I suspect they should know! :-) So like most myths, there are lots of different versions and contradictions.
Awesome thx for the update Chris. I have been eagerly awaiting these as I remember buying my first anubi army backnij....2000 maybe...sometime around then.
Chris, will you be able to show any automaton sculpts by the end of the kickstarter? Also, will you have a pledge manager afterward that some of us can use to adjust our pledges upward after a payday or two?
Chris, will you be able to show any automaton sculpts by the end of the kickstarter? Also, will you have a pledge manager afterward that some of us can use to adjust our pledges upward after a payday or two?
Thanks, as a huge Harryhousen fan myself, I'm really looking forward to the bronze Minotaur!
I've already done the little owl. It's possible I may be able to get started on one of the others, but running the program is practically a full-time job, so I can't make any guarantees.
I'm not sure about a pledge manager. We're planning on setting up a Paypal option for folks without credit cards/Amazon accounts, if that's what you mean.
--Fitz
PS: we added some new graphics to the page to help illustrate what you get in the reward levels - to keep the 'free stuff' easy to understand... here's a sample:
This is interesting... will be there be multiple sculpts for each rank? I can't imagine it would just be one sculpt per rank, but if it's more, that's a lot of sculpts!
This is interesting... will be there be multiple sculpts for each rank? I can't imagine it would just be one sculpt per rank, but if it's more, that's a lot of sculpts!
The back rank looks to be similar to the single fig I also posted except for the head. I expect there will be multiple head options, though Fitz is ultimate authority on this issue
This is interesting... will be there be multiple sculpts for each rank? I can't imagine it would just be one sculpt per rank, but if it's more, that's a lot of sculpts!
Yes, all of out units have multiple sculptures per rank (at least 2 per rank in the phalanxes, so there will be at least 6 different poses in the units - though I may do another set of conversions for the Amazons, bringing them up to 9, as it would be cool to try different unhelmeted heads/faces. Join us, guys! The more backers we can get, the more Amazons I can sculpt and put into production! :-)
Empchild wrote: Chris how long until all of these will be able to be purchased via retail? Also do you do retail sales or are you direct purchase only now?
The stuff in the Kickstarter won't go to retail sales until next summer, when the book ships. (But Kickstarter backers can get the Demigods, Trojans, Amazons, and bonus figs when they are all complete this September/October, with an early PDF of quick-start rules.)
Good to see Dionysis added to the Demigod level. Hopefully there can be a couple more, since there's some very nice figures in there. I'd like to get on board, but the price/value is just not there for that pledge, especially as a KS - $120 plus post for 8 (now 9) models when there are some lovely character models on Crocgames website at retail for $15
Or even for $9
Like, Aeres is big and kickass, but while Artemis is still a lovely and subtle model, she's not in the same league. I mean, I'd potentially go in for Council, but I don't want to pay for a printed book I'll probably never use (sorry!), and the $55 shipping cost can go to Hades.
It might also be worth offering a miniatures-only version of Skirmish.
Taarnak wrote: I don't have any of the Wargods figures (yet), so if anyone can give me an idea about what size/"scale" they are, I would appreciate it.
Would they look more at home next to GW figures or (as I am hoping) next to Warlord Games' plastic Hoplites?
~Eric
WarGods miniatures are the same scale as Warhammer Fantasy.
The latest stretch goal has been unlocked - Reinforcements! ALL Peltast units in the Kickstarter are now upgraded from 10 to 12 models!
Ok please help me out with this. I like the look of the game, I like the demo of the rules, and I like the minatures, but the kickstarter acheivement levels seem weird to me.
Add on starter is $75, but the jump in pledge level with starter is $160. I hope I'm missing something, but that seems like a very high entry point for new players. I have a group of 20 friends that are always looking to jump into new miniature games, and we all talked about this kickstarter, but came up with the same conclusion that it's too high to jump in.
Not trying to troll, but wanted to see if I'm understanding this correctly.
mrfantastical wrote: Ok please help me out with this. I like the look of the game, I like the demo of the rules, and I like the minatures, but the kickstarter acheivement levels seem weird to me.
Add on starter is $75, but the jump in pledge level with starter is $160. I hope I'm missing something, but that seems like a very high entry point for new players. I have a group of 20 friends that are always looking to jump into new miniature games, and we all talked about this kickstarter, but came up with the same conclusion that it's too high to jump in.
Not trying to troll, but wanted to see if I'm understanding this correctly.
The Skirmish Set, which I believe is what you are referring to, includes the Starter Box ($75), Hero ($9), Peltasts ($35), Rule Book ($35), and S&H. The S&H works out to $6 for a total of $160 and you have access to all the stretch goals as well. Hope this answers your question.
If you want only the starter box, you can pledge for a demi-god at $20 ($15 for fig and $5 for S&H) and add on the necessary items.
mrfantastical wrote: Ok please help me out with this. I like the look of the game, I like the demo of the rules, and I like the minatures, but the kickstarter acheivement levels seem weird to me.
Add on starter is $75, but the jump in pledge level with starter is $160. I hope I'm missing something, but that seems like a very high entry point for new players. I have a group of 20 friends that are always looking to jump into new miniature games, and we all talked about this kickstarter, but came up with the same conclusion that it's too high to jump in.
Not trying to troll, but wanted to see if I'm understanding this correctly.
There are other pledge levels that include the rules. In fact, there is a free pdf of the rules included for every level above watcher. If you have hoplites already, you can get the rules and a demigod for $20 (plus international shipping) and get playing. If you want command sets, a phalanx or two, or whatever, they aren't too expensive to buy as add-ons. I pledged for this kickstarter despite my initial reservations because I felt like I could pledge a reasonable (i.e., small) amount and still get something of value. I don't think I could ever jump in at $160 for a starter set.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: There are other pledge levels that include the rules. In fact, there is a free pdf of the rules included for every level above watcher. If you have hoplites already, you can get the rules and a demigod for $20 (plus international shipping) and get playing. If you want command sets, a phalanx or two, or whatever, they aren't too expensive to buy as add-ons. I pledged for this kickstarter despite my initial reservations because I felt like I could pledge a reasonable (i.e., small) amount and still get something of value. I don't think I could ever jump in at $160 for a starter set.
Bob, that is a great point! So much so, that it's convinced me to dip my toe in at the $20 level.
However, I have a question. I'm only really after the Khalkotaur / Bull. It's listed at $15, which is the same price as the demigods. Is there any way I could get this model instead of a demigod for the $20 pledge (when it unlocks)? I have a feeling that might be a popular idea for folks wanting to support and get a model, but don't have an ancient themed army. People can do a lot with that bull (for now, I'm just thinking unit filler for my chaos dwarfs... although, now that I've pledged, it's always possible I'll get tempted to go in for more ).
Please let me know if this would be OK / what you think (if the project creators read this). Cheers!
Crocodile Games wrote:RiTides: Thanks for the suggestion - nice to see some Dakka's here!. I think we can open the Painter x1, etc, to any $15 miniature, I just can't change the reward as written (once backed, we can't change it). But I think I can set the survey to provide an option for any Demigod, Bull, or even the Sebeki Hero (so long as the reward is a single mini for $15.) You should be able to pick multiples this way as well, if you got Painter x2, etc. So yes, we'll figure it out. The only 'but' I'd say is the Painter x8 levels, those are a set of all 8, and they include the Dionysus figure, no swapping things around on these as they'll be packed as a lot.
Thanks, --Fitz
Woot! Of course, now that I know about the options it will be tempting to pledge for a whole unit of bulls . But for now I'm just in for one, with the thought that if it turns out to be the right size / etc for what I have in mind, I'd get more of them later.
Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote: I'm in for Amazons. Going to have a read of the ruleset and make any calls about joining in once I have the book.
However at the very least my son just gained some very nice figures to use as allies for his Lizardmen in a few months.
I must admit the Amazons will be a big part of my pledge - they will also I think make a really good Elf spears unit and tie in well with the new Handmaiden model...............
The Wendigo warband book is now available as PDF. So for $20 you can get pdf's of all three Wargods books While not available for the KS, I will say the Wendigo figures are very cool. Only the Ice Witch was sculpted by Chris and the rest by Ben Siens, but Ben did an awesome job on the figs. Local who plays WG runs them also in a winter themed Beastman Army. They look great on the table.
I actually saw the adjusted map on the main KS page just before the update went up... was very confused for a minute there until they updated explaining that they'd added the extra stretches. Cavalry is always welcome
I'm mostly surprised that no-one has pointed out to a certain segment of the Kickstarter population that the Dionysus concept sketch looks an awful lot like Bran Blessed....
BobtheInquisitor- I totally see it! The princess you're talking about would most likely be a Demigoddess of Hera, though. Here's hoping there are rules for those forthcoming.
Wargods' minis are heroic scale. Immortal's hoplites are slightly heroic, but would probably look odd in the same unit. Wargods heroes should work as stand alone units, probably. They blend right in with Reaper minis.
Yep, 100K smashed! Some of these further stretches may actually have a very good chance... I could be tempted by the Hydra, too, although I have no idea what I'd do with it
Put it on the shelf next to my "I am Alpharius" T-shirt, perhaps!
RiTides wrote: Yep, 100K smashed! Some of these further stretches may actually have a very good chance... I could be tempted by the Hydra, too, although I have no idea what I'd do with it
Put it on the shelf next to my "I am Alpharius" T-shirt, perhaps!
Or have it "wearing" the t-shirt!
Looking at a couple of the other "mid-tier" miniature game KS, can expect about 25% more over the next couple days. So we should get Helen and maybe the Hydra. Would like to see what is planned for the Medusa.
I have a soft spot for poor Medusa - no wonder she is grumpy if everyone keeps visitng her island only to chop her head off............I am hoping for a sympathetic treatment (and gorgeous model)
Mr Morden wrote: I have a soft spot for poor Medusa - no wonder she is grumpy if everyone keeps visitng her island only to chop her head off............I am hoping for a sympathetic treatment (and gorgeous model)
Would be cool if all three sisters were available. But expect the face to match the image on Athena's shield.
I'm pretty sure the Amazons and the Automatons will be the stand-outs of the Olympus range.
Maybe the demigods, too, if their retail pricing isn't too burdensome. I could see buying Ares, Hades or Poseidon for $12 or so (after retailer discount) but the rest are going to need Reaper-equivalent prices if they want a chance to win that golden apple.
Is Helen unlocked at the Fall of Troy (125K) or is she an interim 120K stretch? With more than a day left I think 125K is extremely likely, and hopefully 130K for the Hydra (yesterday's pledge total was over 10K).
Wow, lots of stretches listed out for the last 6 hours! I'm not sure it will make them all but it's cool to see and I'm very happy that the Hydra made it in easily.
Well, unfortunately I don't think there really is a good pledge level for that. I'm getting the mechanical bull with a $20 pledge (as it's a $15 miniature, just like the demigods that that pledge level was set up for originally). I think that is the lowest pledge level that you can put add-ons in addition to.
The mechanical minotaur is a $20 add-on, and the hydra is a $30 one. However, they'll be done at quite different times (the first at the end of this year, the hydra is at the end of the queue and not available until late next year). So... it might not really be a good fit for you.
It's blowing past stretch goals, though! Just passed $145K, which was "Reinforcements 2". I don't know what that is, but it sounds good . About 50 minutes left to go.
Automatically Appended Next Post: And it's done! $147K, with 544 backers. What I've pledged for is listed as October... hopefully this KS bucks the trend and delivers on time, in which case I will of course take pics and post them up
Well, I'm chuffed to bits that this was so successful. I do hope we'll see the Medusa and the Cretan Pirates somewhere down the line, but the stuff that got funded all looks great, and I'm super excited for WGO's release.
Hmmm, Corinthians, or Spartans?....
After I get my Aegyptus Typhon and maybe Heru, too, that is.
Well of course, we can't have all this Kickstarter filth continue to clutter up the News & Rumors section.
So we'll see when we get the "official" End of Kickstarter Update. Curious to see how the Automations come out. Don't recall seeing Fitz doing much in the way of mechanical sculpts.
The Kickstarter has been over for a few weeks and we are busy as bees here at the Croc HQ -- We just got back from Historicon last week and we are hard at work on the Kickstarter stuff.
As you know, everyone should have sent in their surveys by now, if you haven’t; check the kickstarter program page and there should be a notice for you to fill it out. Please don’t delay; we need this information to produce the miniatures.
Debs is busy compiling all the information from the Kickstarter surveys. This is a huge job because there are a lot of backers and a lot of options. She is slowly working her way through it and as soon as she has got a comprehensive list, we will be contacting you if we need any clarifications or additional information that we may need.
Chris has been sculpting away and is making steady progress on the miniatures. He’s putting the final touches on the Demigods and cutting them into their separate parts to be sent to the mold maker. He has also nearly finished one of the Bronze Automatons… the Bronze Minotaur!
Check out these in progress photos – there are still a few more things to clean up and little details to add, but the Bronze Minotaur is nearly done and stands 2.75 inches tall, so he is going to be an impressive miniature on the battlefield!
Thanks again for all of the support. Tune in next week for another update.
It's been a busy couple of weeks here at the Croc HQ. Todd Harris has just completed the first of his sculptures for the kickstarter project, a set of Greek Archers. We have done this pack with universal warriors that work with the following city-states; Sparta, Athens, Corinth and Mycenae. Each unit will have a captain that is specific to the city-state, and the basic warriors will all look like athletic Greek youths, check out the pictures below!
And here's the latest news on production, we have gotten the first batch of master castings of the Demigods, and they look spectacular! Our masters are done by Brian Hitsman at Majestic Mold Making, a long-time veteran of the mold making business, and he has done an amazing job of capturing all of the detail in these complicated models. We're spending the next week getting these masters prepped for their production molds, and then we can start making miniatures!
To give you an idea of how big this job is. we have something like 50 individual molds remaining to produce for the first wave, a huge task but we're making great progress. Watch for more updates as the molds are completed.
As soon as we have all of the production molds finished we are going to be closing the paypal pledging once and for all, so if you have any last minute additions now is the time to add them.
Thats it for now, thanks to everyone for their support, and we'll see you soon in the next update!
The sculpture of the Oracle is close to being finished, if things go we'll I'll be able to show her off in the update this weekend.
The last of the Demigod molds are being pressed this week, and I'll be going out to inspect the master castings for the last 2 (Hecate and Dionysus) on Friday. If those look good we'll be able to start production castings for the Demigods next week. Fingers crossed they came out OK!
Greetings backers, we're back again with great news from the Croc HQ! The Demigod miniatures have arrived, they look fantastic, and the Painter Rewards are shipping this week!
If you chose any of the "Painter" rewards (x1 through x8) and did not add any Add-Ons or substitutions, then we should be shipping your miniatures this week. If you paid for Add-Ons or items other than the Demigods included, these rewards will be shipping a little later as we get the other molds completed and castings made.
Debs is hard at work packing and shipping the Painter rewards, and we have photographic proof!
Debs gets the Painter Rewards ready for shipping!
As for the rest of the rewards, we are making great progress on the molds for the Trojans, which are next in line. The last of the Trojan greens are at Majestic Moldmaking now, and we should be getting the master castings back for these in the next week.
New Trojan Greens!
Click the link above to see more of the latest Trojan sculptures, including the Musician and the Swordsman!
Thanks to everyone for their patience with us so far, this is a huge assortment of miniatures, and we're doing our best to get all of these completed as soon as possible.
I agree, but it's gonna be so late :-/. They are going to be pretty off schedule at the current rate, and haven't gotten into most of what they committed to sculpt yet.
Another non-Kickstarter update via the Croc Forums. Helen is pretty much done.
OK, she's about 99% complete, so let's show her off! All that really remains are her slotta-tab, the straps on the rear sandal (I need to remove her from the cork to get in close enough to sculpt them) and few clean-ups here and there.
Beauty is a very subjective thing, and to sculpt 'the most beautiful woman in history' that pleases everyone is probably an impossible task. I've tried to stick closely the Des' concept design. We loosely based her appearance on a young Sophia Loren, and for the sculpture I tried to give her something of an otherworldly air with her pose and face, as if her physical appearance closely resembled the stylized form of art that the greeks used - that would be the standard of beauty for the day. Hopefully this is a subtle effect, and I'm looking forward to seeing her painted - after looking at her in green for so long, seeing her in color will be a welcome change!
Thanks to everyone for their patience with me as I worked on this mini. Some figures are very challenging, I could probably have sculpted half a dozen rough-and-tumble warriors with swords and spears in the time it to to make her! I'll be cleaning her up and taking some more photos on a base to send out in a general update this weekend.
Hope you guys like her!
Agree with the face being highly stylized, but still like
Automatically Appended Next Post: I really enjoy Fitz's style and the Wargods line. I'm also glad to see an exclusive miniature getting a lot of attention. However, I'm still really glad he's almost done so he can move on.
FYI, Helen and the Oracle were KS exclusives and these versions won't be available for regular sale. Though Fitz has stated he may do alternative sculpts of these two for general release. Also, he is still taking pledges via Paypal till the end of the year if you want to get in.
FYI, Helen and the Oracle were KS exclusives and these versions won't be available for regular sale. Though Fitz has stated he may do alternative sculpts of these two for general release. Also, he is still taking pledges via Paypal till the end of the year if you want to get in.
Ugh. That is a damned fine sculpt tho. How much was Helen?
FYI, Helen and the Oracle were KS exclusives and these versions won't be available for regular sale. Though Fitz has stated he may do alternative sculpts of these two for general release. Also, he is still taking pledges via Paypal till the end of the year if you want to get in.
Ugh. That is a damned fine sculpt tho. How much was Helen?
She was a freebee for pledges at Skirmish ($160), Warband ($200), or Army ($280). There was also a Warband Miniatures Only pledge for $165. Those were the stretch goal pledges. She was unfortunately not a buyable figure :(
Silent, to port over my discussion from the other thread to this one where it's appropriate- Croc Games has not been updating on their status very often (last update or comment was a month ago) and are already far behind their projected schedule.
I asked them to post more updates in the KS comments yesterday, and about the timeline for the Amazons and Automatons. Looks like they're not even started yet and the Amazons were slated for delivery in October!
RiTides: Sorry you are not happy with the quantity of the official updates, thank you for the advice and I'll try to post more often in the future. I've been trying to make updates when there is something significant to show, and that does not always happen on a weekly basis. Some weeks are spent cleaning master castings for the production molds, not exciting but a necessary investment of time for us to turn out the production minis in good quality.
Helen is coming as the next Update (tomorrow), I've just been trying to wrap up some of her fiddly details & cleanup.
As for the Amazons and Automatons, it is not possible to give a firm shipping date on them yet, as they need a lot of sculpting & production work before they are ready to ship. They are coming after the Trojans (and the Troy sculpts are now all done, and their last master molds are underway), so we'll be seeing updates featuring the Amazons at the start of the new year. I know everyone is eager to see new Amazons, and I'm eager to get on with their sculpting too. --Fitz
I appreciate their prompt reply, but I thought the goals were very attainable for this campaign, which is why I felt confident backing... I did not expect the sculpting to be so delayed right off the bat like this.
Saw your posts over at the Wargods KS page and agree yea, that the Amazons have been delayed sucks. I went in as well on the Amazons because I thought they were ready to go. You have a valid reason for being frustrated. Am surprised too that he pushed the Amazons back for completing the Trojans. Their initial units were essentially done.
I guess I expect all Kickstarters to be late by a certain amount. The first Kickstarter I backed was the Double Fine one and we know how that one is doing.
Couple more pictures up at the CG forums. Fitz said he was trying to get a KS update out last weekend. Sounds like he was waiting for some stuff back from the caster before posting.
Amazons incoming
Last one Fitz mentioned he is trying to save time, by having the partial sculpts cast and then working on the partials to make the helmet/no-helmet versions to save time. Not sure how I feel about that since some people who do casting do state there is shrinkage on the models. Does that mean we well be seeing slightly smaller Peltasts? I know GW did that alot in the 80's when you had 4 - 5 models with the same pose, but different heads/weapons.
Last one Fitz mentioned he is trying to save time, by having the partial sculpts cast and then working on the partials to make the helmet/no-helmet versions to save time. Not sure how I feel about that since some people who do casting do state there is shrinkage on the models. Does that mean we well be seeing slightly smaller Peltasts? I know GW did that alot in the 80's when you had 4 - 5 models with the same pose, but different heads/weapons.
It should be no problem, our moldmaker (Brian Hitsman) is excellent, and his masters have minimal shrinkage.
There is always some shrinkage on castings, usually about 3% from front-to-back. I already compensate on the greens, so with these, it is just a case of making the original pieces just a little thicker than I already do. It took me MANY years to figure it out, but now I naturally sculpt stuff a little thicker than I want the final production model to be (don't look at my old skinny Ral Partha figures from the early 1990's, ha ha!)
This sort of thing is only a problem when you use parts that were not *intended* to be used as intermediates. And we don't do that.
Really kicking myself that I didn't know about this KS campaign, I'd have totally gone all in for the Amazon army alone, hard to find nice proper soldierly female warrior minis. It's mostly just cheesecake and sci-fi out there.
So, what's the consensus about Crocodile Games as both a company, and the state of its games?
I've had the opinion for a while that CG was just in over its head. Way too slow releases, the games going no where what with them releasing books for new games even before older lines were completed. I remember them specifically saying they would put out a smaller skirmish version to help people get into the game, and then backed off that statement. Not a good sign.
However, my gaming group is interested in playing a Fantasy style game again since the WHFB nostalgia is hitting them hard. So I figured that Wargods would be a good fit.
At this point, would you consider the Crocodile Games line complete enough to get a group into it? For example, have they filled out the Hyperboria line yet?
What's the status of the rules? I enjoyed the rules well enough when I tried Aegyptus a long time ago, but thought it lacked more specialty units, and stuff like monsters.
What do you think of the cost to start? I'd have to buy two small armies for this game to demo it. One of them would have to be the Aegyptus Crocodiles, because that's a showpiece army if there ever was one. The other would likely be from one of the other wargods settings, probably spartans or something.
Do you think CG will continue to thrive, or fall back into super slow release mode again?
The Miniatures look absolutely great, but are more than a touch expensive, and not really available from anywhere bit Fitz' website.
Which means instead of owning a pile of them, using them amongst my KoW armies and painting a bunch to show off on my shelves, blog and table to others and thinking "maybe I'll try out this game" I own none of them. None are in my armies, being painted or shown off, and the rules are just a vague undefined thing somewhere on the internet.
My money goes elsewhere, and CG could sink without me even noticing it unless I bumped into a thread about it here on Dakka or TMP etc.
All of which is a shame, because there are some really nice models in there.
Vertrucio, given the pace of release of the KS models, I would personally be somewhat cautious... I'm really hoping they up their game but right now things are not fully released enough to commit a whole group to getting into, imo. Hopefully that will change in the future as they fulfill the campaign! But as of now, the model ranges seem pretty incomplete to me to really start playing their game(s) with.
Vertrucio, the Wargos of Aegyptus is a nearly complete line with a full rule set. It was the first line Fitz launched. They are very close to 6th ed WHFB with some additional activation rules. The kickstarter was for the Olympus line which still needs a complete rule set and miniatures.
If you focus on Aegyptus you won't have problems and can build complete armies right now. If you are wanting the Olympus figs, I would be cautious. The last couple year drought was due to Fitz being smacked around by the IRS. With that out of the way, he should be back to his normal pace. Though that wasn't that fast.
The archer captains from Todd are starting to arrive! First up is the Corinthian Captain, seen below. He's working now on the Spartan and Mycenaean Captains, which we should be seeing soon. I'll be doing the Captain for the Athenians, but he's a bit further down the list...
OK, here's an in-progress shot of some of the Amazon Peltasts and an Archer.
The Archer is completed, and the Peltasts are nearly there - they just need their correct shield arms (I stuck one of the warrior shields on the center model, but the finished models will all come with shield/javelin arms just like the Peltast captain posted a couple weeks back. These arms are all already complete, but they are at the moldmaker, and so not available for the photo!)
Peltasts and Archer
So where are we with the Amazons? Let's do a quick run-down:
Aye, though the more I look at the gorgets on the Amazons, the more I am not fond of them. Still, They are a fantastic example of feminine models that are not over the top sexy. Maybe a touch wasp waisted if that is a plate on the lower half, but forgivable given the scale. The faces are just wonderful, too. They don't suffer from sameface and don't look like bad trannies, the two problems that plague most female models. Well done!
That... might be true? I'd have sworn that I saw Wargods stuff in online stores before, but glancing at TWS I don't see any. Maybe just the fevered dreams of a madman.
Still, so long as I can buy them from somewhere, they will get bought when I can purchase things without getting smacked by my wife.
Some of the WG line is carried by my local store, but not much. Use to be carried by several online stores as well. Ordered some from TWS. Possible that sales weren't that great online and were cleared out.
FRP Games has the various Wargods ranges in stock.
I used to collect Crocodile Games armies about 10 years ago and loved the setting, rules and figures, but could never find any other players. I really think the slow pace of releases tanked the momentum the game had a decade back. I hope the Kickstarter breathes some new life into the game because the rules are a lot of fun and lend themselves to great campaign play but you need to have exposure and people playing your game or else the fun factor counts for squat. :(
Wehrkind wrote: Looking good! I am looking forward to these being available at retail, and also having some actual income with which to purchase them!
I don't think Fitz sells these at retail - aside from on his website, anyway?
They do in fact sell at retail. Gamer's Haven in Colorado Springs sells Croc Games stuff on their shelves. I've seen them available at other B&M stores, as well.
Azazelx wrote: Well, that's something I guess. Shame no-one carries his stuff that I could feasibly order from. I'd quite like to pick a few of his models up.
FRPGames ships internationally. Have you had a bad experience with them or were you looking for a local shop to buy from?
First up are some of the latest Amazon sculpts, which Chris has just completed - the Amazon Archers! These minis all come with a separate bow & quiver piece, that attaches to their hip next to their belt. Chris has an alternate quiver planned too, which has some grisly trophies attached as well, like a severed head and scalps! Yuck! But no one ever said the Amazons were nice!
Amazon ArchersAmazon Archers
So how many more Amazons are still to go? Let's do a quick run-down:
As you can see from the list, we are in the home stretch - only 5 models to go, and all of them are either conversions of existing models or already in progress. If all goes well, we should have all of the Amazon sculpts completed in the next few weeks... then it is on to the Automatons!
Trojan Production
The good news is that we are about to begin Trojan production this weekend! We will be picking up the last set of molds on Friday, and then casting begins. There are a lot of miniatures to make, so it will take several days to complete and sort them all, and then packing & labels for shipping. Please bear with us, and if you have moved or need to update your order, please let us know as soon as possible!
Soon to be Trojans!Soon to be Trojans!
I reached out to Crocodile games about changing my pledge to an existing model from their range (the Titan Master 1), and they were cool with that. They said it should ship tomorrow, so with luck I should have it this week . Will update then!
Nice! Also, Croc Games allowed me to swap my pledge to an existing model from their line and pay the difference, and promptly shipped it to me. Very satisfied with them now and will likely be buying another copy of it in the future (it was their "Titan Master 1" model).
New update on the CG forums that I missed last week:
OK, here's the latest from the sculpting desk...
I'm still working on the last of the Amazons and the Automaton Bull, but we've run into a bit of a log-jam. The sculpting has currently gotten ahead of the moldmaking, which means I'm still waiting on the greens to come back to complete the Amazon Herald and Musician. But I can't stop the train on their account, so I just started the Atheneans a few weeks early! (Don't be alarmed at this, I usually have about 6 models on the sculpting table at any one time... you have to let the putty cure every so often or you'll mess up the work that you've done! The answer to this is to work on several sculpts at once, and each bit cure as you work on the next model in the line.)
Anyhow... Atheneans! Here are the first 2 complete models, and armature for a third. The 1/2 completed green will be molded as-is, like I did with the Amazon Archers and Peltasts, so I have a bunch of bodies to work from to complete all 4 of the Front-Rank models and the Captain.
These are shown with the Athena shield, the finished models will have several other shields (depending on their Battle Honors), but all of the same basic shape as the one shown here.
Hope you guys like them!
A pic showing them in file, with the 1/2 completed Front Rank sculpt in front:
Spoiler:
Here's a pic showing them in file, with the 1/2 completed Front Rank sculpt in front:
Ok, here's the latest mechanical menace from Hephaestus' forge... the Bronze Bull!
I am still wrapping up the sculpting, and may add a few more rivets, and still have to cut him apart. He'll end up being at least 4 pieces - 2 body halves, head/horns, and tail. I may also change the horns to make it easier to cast (horns going to the side, rather than sloping forward.) We shall see...
Hope you guys like him, he was a lot more complicated than I had anticipated, I should have known better with multi-part models.
OK, time to show off another round of sculpts, these wrap up them Amazons.
First up are the Amazon command figures, the Herald and Musician. The Herald carries a standard that suggests the changing phases of them moon, as well as the tripart aspect of the goddess Hecate. The Musician carries a lyre, based on an actual ancient greek design - made from the shell of a tortoise, and the arms of the harp are made from the horns of a bull. I thought the use of natural elements appropriate to the Amazons!
Next is the Amazon queen, Penthesilea. Penny was a real struggle to sculpt, I ended up starting and restarting the model several times, before I got a pose I was happy with. She's one of those miniatures that is very difficult to photograph because she does not lie on a flat 2d plane... I tried to get a coupe different angles to show, but I should probably have taken a couple more. Her axe arm comes off at the shoulder, and her shield arm comes off at the elbow. I included another pic of Des' excellent concept design too...
These are the last of the Amazons in their first wave, and they are at our moldmaker now! Fingers crossed that the molds come out OK, if so we should have production molds in our hands very soon!
Hopefully this means the first wave Amazon stuff will be shipping before the end of the year
Do you check out the Crocodile Games forums? That is where Fitz puts most of updates and where I get most my info from. Haven't heard anything regarding the first wave of amazons recently. So hope everything is moving along with them.
OK, as requested, here are some images of the Automaton variations - now in metal! Sorry for the delay on these, we've had our hands full with Amazon production the last week.
First up is the Automation Hoplite Captain. This is basically a separate arm/head sprue, this one with a sculpted human 'mask' helmet and a sword. If you order the Automaton set, you'll get the parts to make either option.
Next up is the Bronze Minotaur, he comes with a hand/weapon sprue with 2 options: either an pole-axe or a hooked spear. Put him together with the one you like best!
Last is a picture with the whole line-up, to show their size in comparison to one another. The Minoton is on a 40x40mm base, the Bull is on a 25x50mm base, the Dog and Hoplite are both on 25x25mm bases, and the Owl is shown on a 20x20mm base (although he does not come with a base, I just mounted him on one to photograph. The idea with him is that he can be glued on a model's arm or shoulder, as a pet.)
Well, I just received my Amazons and assorted other minis. The quality is very good, the casts are clean and the designs exciting, but...
I think my enthusiasm left me some time ago. Between the time I opened my package and the time when I arrived at the modelling table, I'd lost the thrill. It's just hard to stay excited for heroic-scaled metal minis on the eve of 2015.
The fluff for Wargods is great. The designs are some of my favorite fantasy pieces. But I just can't love these models. I really wish Fitz would find a way to get these made in boardgame plastic or Bones. Maybe he could sculpt some fantasy minis for Proxie. Kickstarter a board game. Something. I want to love Wargods of Olympus, but after the delays a baggie of metal GW-proportioned women just isn't as appealing as I thought it would be a year ago.
Let me see how I feel in a week, and then I will let you know. I still love the sculpts, so I may have been speaking from burnout earlier. On the other hand, if I haven't regained that loving feeling, there's no reason to cram more minis into the vault of unfinished miniatures.
Well my Amazons showed up last week. Trying to finish up some Beastmen before starting them.
Also, new update from Fitz and Co.
Ok, time for another sculpting update... progress has been a bit slower than hoped, as I've been helping with packing orders and last-minute-casting, but I have managed to finish off all of the Athenian hoplites. Woohoo!
Still a few to go, including Theseus, his guards, the Hero, and the archer and peltast captains. I'm also working on a bunch of new shields for them too... one with a ship (for the Companions of Theseus), one with a Trident (for the Poseidon's Faithful) and one a laurel wreath (for the Chosen of Nike).
The Captain is about 95% complete, I still need to do a sword arm, which will be a separate piece and interchangeable with the spear arm. He has a scroll, educated in the Athenian Academies, of course. I may add a few more details and decorations to his armor, grieves, etc. He'll get his own shield as well.
Here are the other 2 Middle/Rear rank Athenians. I tried to make the Athenians a mix of young and old men, to suggest their citizen army... men of all walks of life put on their armor in times of war.
Loving those shields and look forward to get some individually.
) question 
and the Amazons were slated for delivery in October!
. Will update then!
