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 jgemrich wrote:
New minis and a rule book...no thanks.

I think this KS is missing the mark. They should look to convert the existing range to a cheaper (relative) to produce and easier to consume material. The KS should build infrastructure for this possibility. Give PDF of old rules with KS as bonus. New rule and units could be a second KS in 12 months. Just my opinion. Love the sculpts and own a couple but I'd never buy into the game. All metal skirmish games is sooo 2004 (looking at you too dark age).. All metal battle games? Only in 15mm thank you.

Corvus Belli seems to be doing just fine with their all metal Infinity line. Crocodile's stuff looks great, is easy to assemble, and is cheap in comparison to other metal minis.

There are ALL kinds of pitfalls associated with plastics production. Not least of which is reduction of quality of detail, but also you have a MUCH more costly thresh hold for expansion AND a much more lengthy production / delivery delay. QC issues, restock thresh hold issues. etc./ etc.

With metal production is quick, nimble, more easily managed and reliable.

Those are good points, Tre.

It is also worth pointing out that cardboard is even better to work with from the manufacturing side. Cheap, light, easy to mass produce or cut to order. It's superior in sooo many ways.

If only those fool customers would buy it! Or metal! Damn their preferences!

Some more greens for the upcoming Kickstarter

KS is up

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1820979427/wargods-of-olympus-mythology-miniature-battle-game?ref=category

 tre manor wrote:


There are ALL kinds of pitfalls associated with plastics production. Not least of which is reduction of quality of detail, but also you have a MUCH more costly thresh hold for expansion AND a much more lengthy production / delivery delay. QC issues, restock thresh hold issues. etc./ etc.

With metal production is quick, nimble, more easily managed and reliable.

That great. It doesn't change the fact that lots of folks don't want to deal with metal anymore.

I mean, Tre, didnt you just KS a bunch of models into troll cast?


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And yikes. The WarGods starting stretch goals level is at $160. Rough.

 cincydooley wrote:

And yikes. The WarGods starting stretch goals level is at $160. Rough.

which would be $215 outside US

$20 for one model? I suppose it will cost even more through retail, even with a discount? It's a shame it's so expensive. I see two whole models I like in this KS.

I'm not trying to be mean--I wanted to like this project--but the cost of entry was a bit of a shock.


PS: I have lots of plastic Greeks already, from at least 3 companies. I don't understand why Wargods is trying to horn in on this market. Someone explain, as you would a child.

Yes Cincy I did and look at the mess it made.

i'll explain what i see, but i don't have any inside info, Bob...

as the Demi-Gods are $11.95 retail, i am thinking that these new ones, and the resculpts of the older ones, are a bit bigger...
i could be wrong, and the $20 pledge is a horrible deal unless there are a couple of add-ons later...
not sure...

to be fair, i just got Skaarls from Raging Heroes, who is metal, and costs $22.50...
i love the mini, but she is way more delicate and a bit more expensive than Croc minis...
Croc has a very distinct sculpting style for their minis, and the casts are great...
i've not had a single miscast from them in ten years of collecting their minis...
the minis are also a bit chunkier (in a good way) compared to Infinity or RH, making for good connection points, and no broken bits...

the $160 warband entry pledge gets you 28 minis, so that's about $6 a fig...
sounds like a good deal...

the art for the book is amazing...
John and Des are two great ex-GW illustrators, who have distinct styles...

most importantly, these are not "Greeks", they are "Olympians"...
this is a mythological setting, not historical...
there are Demi-Gods, Satyrs, Titans, and more creatures to come like Centaurs and Harpies...
for those people, like me, who don't really care for historicals, Croc scratches the itch of cool Egyptian, Nordic, and Greek settings with all of the fantasy elements that made Warhammer more appealing than historical games...

i don't do Kickstarter, so i have no reason other than a love for the artists involved, and as a fan of the settings and sculpts, to say all this...

i love metal (as well as plastic and real resin, but not restic or Finecast) and don't care how much a mini costs if it is a must have...
quite a few of Fitz's sculpts have fallen into the must have category for me over the years...
i wish them all the best, and hope they succeed...
i'll definitely be rounding out my collection of Demi-Gods when these hit shops after the Kickstarter...

cheers
jah

 tre manor wrote:
Yes Cincy I did and look at the mess it made.

Could you link me Tre. I didn't pledge it and am therefore unfamiliar with the "mess."


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Nevermind. Just read through the updates on the KS page. While I empathize with your troll cast problems, there are plenty of examples of other companies that are using restic, etc, that are doing just fine (and no, I don't include GW here).

I love the wargods aesthetic. I just don't have any interest in all metal when that's really not the direction the industry seems to be heading. It seems like a step back.

Jah-Joshua, thank you for the discussion. I also love many of the Wargods sculpts. I have a ton of the Egyptian stuff, which is why I was so surprised at the high cost for the KS. I guess I'll have to wait for retail, when the prices become more reasonable.

I made my comment about the plastic greeks mostly because it seems like the bulk of the rewards in this KS are either very expensive demigods or units of metal models that many fans of greek mythology probably bought in plastic already. However, if there are enough people who don't think the plastic kits are fantastical enough, consider my concern invalid.

(For example, the KS page references the old stop-motion Harryhausen films. Those films are why I bought the WGF greeks and skeletons, as well as some Reaper figures, some Immortal figures, and so on.. It just made me think Crocodile Games was late to the party.)


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 tre manor wrote:
Yes Cincy I did and look at the mess it made.

How much did Reaper make turning your sculpts into plastic?

When these were originally released, they were awesome minis. With some forsight, they could have been the beginning of Hordes as iirc they came out around the first time Warmachine came out. The leaders ( harbingers) for these groups were incredible and looked specifically designed to compete with Fantasy models hq choices. I had many of these minis and each army played a bit different than the others. Just seems like most of the ex GW employees try to get in a pissing match with their prior employer instead of focusing on better minis and game play. Who knows, maybe Chris can head over to Mantic.

Nice models. I looked at the Olympians as models "just to paint" until I saw the price. $120 (+$19) for 8 miniatures? No thanks. Especially not as a Kickstarter.

Nice sculpts, but obscenely expensive for rank and file. The best offer is still $5 per model, and that's if you spend more than $600.

Yeah I don't use metal for rank and file as it just gets to expensive. It's the only reason I have not jumped on RBG KS even though i really want the Njorn. Oh yeah and the $55.00 international shipping as well keeps me out of this.

I have quite a bit of the Ageyptus models and played it a few times

Not really enough fantasy elements in this for me thus far - was hoping for some Centaurs, Minotaurs, nymphs, Giants etc .

Plus there is the shipping to the UK to consider

Nice minis but $20 each = no buy, no chance in hell.

Not for me, but the sculpts are lovely, and I hope it does well.

Hey guys,

This is Chris FitzPatrick, I thought I'd stop by and answer any questions/concerns about the Croc Kickstarter.

First off, thanks to the guys here who have been posting updates, I really appreciate the help spreading the word!

Overseas shipping cost
On the subject of international shipping cost. Yeah, the cost that the USPS charges sucks, but there isn't anything we can do about that. The problem is that for the reward levels that include the book, there is no way to send it inexpensively due to the size and weight. To help solve this we've added some 'buddy' reward levels, so two guys can team up on their order, and effectively cut the cost of shipping for each of them in half.

Price of Minis
Please keep in mind, this is 'Day 1' of a 30-day program. Our goal is to raise the funds to print a 250 page book and produce a range of 30+ new miniatures -- once we reach the basic funding goal, then we can start adding extras to the reward levels that will bring the cost-per-mini down. If some of you guys are sitting on the fence, check back in a week or so. We have some cool stretch goals planned that are going to make a big difference if we can achieve them.

Monsters and bigger minis
As for more mythic units - these are more that are planned and will be unlocked as the program goes on, like Harpies, Cerberus, Cyclopses, and more.

I hope this info helps clear up our strategy on this, and I'm happy to answer any other questions you guys might have.

--Fitz

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silent25 wrote:

Gamingdog wrote:

wow that's pretty damning. I heard he had some tax problems but I had no idea he maliciously and willfully didn't pay his taxes. I has assumed it was some kind of clerical error where he dutifully paid his taxes but later found out the amount paid was wrong. The government(s) can be hard nosed and unforgiving about fines and penaltys if they feel payments are in error. when it comes to taxes what the government says goes and individuals have little recourse

back to the op

I hope this kickstarter is successful. hopefully it gets him out of trouble with the feds and the game generates more interest and I hope plastics are involved too.

He tired to be an international accountant and play the two codes off each other and minimize his taxes. When the IRS called him on it several years later, it went south. Didn't sound malicious, just more poorly thought out.

Realize my initial post sounds more accusatory than it should be.

Jeez, I don't know who makes this stuff up, but this stuff is just not true.

Simple, honest mistakes on taxes can end up costing a lot of money. I'm an artist, not an accountant - the moral of the story is that it is not a good idea to try to do your own taxes. I settled all this stuff months ago - we only shared the information publicly to let our customers know why production of new miniatures had slowed down last year. Really guys, it wasn't that bad, and the IRS lady just laughed about it -- and sent me the bill.

--Fitz

Thanks for the updates!

 Chris FitzPatrick wrote:

Jeez, I don't know who makes this stuff up, but this stuff is just not true.

Simple, honest mistakes on taxes can end up costing a lot of money. I'm an artist, not an accountant - the moral of the story is that it is not a good idea to try to do your own taxes. I settled all this stuff months ago - we only shared the information publicly to let our customers know why production of new miniatures had slowed down last year. Really guys, it wasn't that bad, and the IRS lady just laughed about it -- and sent me the bill.

--Fitz

It's the internet dude. It works like the Grapevine only faster and usually even more stupid. -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFII-edH-Yo



Thanks for stopping by, it's always good to hear from "the man" on any project.

I also have a lot of Aegyptus stuff, good minis. I'll be watching this KS, love the idea/era.

Good luck to you!

 TalonZahn wrote:

It's the internet dude. It works like the Grapevine only faster and usually even more stupid. -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFII-edH-Yo



Thanks for stopping by, it's always good to hear from "the man" on any project.

I also have a lot of Aegyptus stuff, good minis. I'll be watching this KS, love the idea/era.

Good luck to you!

Ha ha, thanks man! Your video cracked me up, especially as it is so true!

--Fitz

nice to see you pop your head in here, Fitz...

the new stuff looks great, especially Poseidon and Haphaestus...
best of luck with the campaign...

cheers
jah

Good luck with the campaign Fitz. Hephaestus is DEFINITELY the pick of the bunch for me the far though Hades is pretty damned awesome too.

 Chris FitzPatrick wrote:
Hey guys,

This is Chris FitzPatrick, I thought I'd stop by and answer any questions/concerns about the Croc Kickstarter.

First off, thanks to the guys here who have been posting updates, I really appreciate the help spreading the word!

Overseas shipping cost
On the subject of international shipping cost. Yeah, the cost that the USPS charges sucks, but there isn't anything we can do about that. The problem is that for the reward levels that include the book, there is no way to send it inexpensively due to the size and weight. To help solve this we've added some 'buddy' reward levels, so two guys can team up on their order, and effectively cut the cost of shipping for each of them in half.

Price of Minis
Please keep in mind, this is 'Day 1' of a 30-day program. Our goal is to raise the funds to print a 250 page book and produce a range of 30+ new miniatures -- once we reach the basic funding goal, then we can start adding extras to the reward levels that will bring the cost-per-mini down. If some of you guys are sitting on the fence, check back in a week or so. We have some cool stretch goals planned that are going to make a big difference if we can achieve them.

Monsters and bigger minis
As for more mythic units - these are more that are planned and will be unlocked as the program goes on, like Harpies, Cerberus, Cyclopses, and more.

I hope this info helps clear up our strategy on this, and I'm happy to answer any other questions you guys might have.

--Fitz

Thanks for the info - I hope it all goes welland will keep my eye on it.

the artwork looks great - follows nicely on from the WoA

Couple of questions:

There are some great Trojan wars novels about - which one would you say is most like WoO?

Are the Demi-Gods the Same as Harbringers so they are not the Gods themselves but an embodiment of their powers - Are the Olympian Gods still around?

Models love to see
Artemis and her Nymphs out hunting
Centaurs
Can we have some Scythian Cavalry - big fan of the Tryant novels

I've always loved the minis so I'm in at $65 even though it's a little pricey for 4 minis but here's hoping.

Okay, I will check back in a week or two. I do love Hades and Poseidon. Now I just need to find a proxy for Percy Jackson...

As for novels, definitely not Ilium or Olympos by Dan Simmons. Definitely not.

Thanks for the info, Chris.

I have to ask, though, if you have considered not-metal at all. It's one of the promary things keeping me from some of the minis. I especially love the Yeti line, but I just don't have any interest In any all metal model that large.

Resin...Restic...any chance of that in the future?

 Mr Morden wrote:


Thanks for the info - I hope it all goes welland will keep my eye on it.

the artwork looks great - follows nicely on from the WoA

Couple of questions:

There are some great Trojan wars novels about - which one would you say is most like WoO?

Are the Demi-Gods the Same as Harbringers so they are not the Gods themselves but an embodiment of their powers - Are the Olympian Gods still around?

Models love to see
Artemis and her Nymphs out hunting
Centaurs
Can we have some Scythian Cavalry - big fan of the Tryant novels

Glad you like the WarGods artwork -- Dakka fans should enjoy it, we're all GW Studio veterans.

Demigods are the sons and daughters of the gods - like Heracles/Hercules was the son of Zeus. They are gifted with powers associated with their parent god. In the game rules the work basically the same as an Aegyptian Harbinger, and if a Demigod & Harbinger fought, the winner would take the divine power of the defeated.

The Olympian Gods are still around. They are making all the Demigods, and causing all the mischief!

--Fitz

 Uriels_Flame wrote:
Who knows, maybe Chris can head over to Mantic.

While that would be great if hé did work for someone else I'd rather go to PP and start on legion. Him and Remy together, though? That would be a force to reckon with.

I mean, imagine how good Wildcard would have looked if done by Chris...

He's an amazing sculptor. I have some Wargods stuff just because I love his work so much. No interest in the game, sadly.