Some of the newer monsters that I've seen are a little better, but still very soft detail and whacking great gaps that need filling between some parts.
The bandits that I've seen pictures of from the town expansion look just as soft and flat as the original heroes.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
highlord tamburlaine wrote: Tell the truth, I've been having fun painting those low level detail questionable quality plastics.
Got me waxing nostalgic over painting Heroquest figures back in 7th or 8th grade.
Having painted some Heroquest figures recently, they are significantly better quality than SoB, with sharper detail imo :/
Much as I moan about the miniatures, some of them are still fun and the game is great.
They are nicer models. I don't think they'll be winning any awards, but they're easier to assemble, with much nicer detail than what came in the base sets.
My stuff has arrived! It actually showed up at the post office on Thursday, but my friend and I weren't able to pick it up until this afternoon.
Not only did FFP include my Outlaw with my friend's Mine Cart, they sent the Mine Cart that I bought off another user. This led to staggering amount of stuff to parcel out. Took a little time, but we seem to have it all straight.
Now to start looking for local buyers for some of the heavier stuff I have duplicates of (Cynder, Frontier Town), and wander over to eBay and see if I can't move some of the otherwise unavailable stuff to help clear out the old credit card a bit.
I am seriously regretting not ponying up for 1.5 shipping - both times it was offered!
I really should have taken the hint that Wave 2.0 was going to be...some ways off.
Fear not Alph, for the day shall come when we receive our wave 2, and it's coming shall be heralded by the wailing of the mailman as he struggles to the door, bearing our goods in the fashion of Atlas, and falls gasping before us to bequeath unto ourselves the copious quantities of gaming goodness that we have longed for. Yea, there shall be much rejoicing as we eject the courier from our estate and henceforth slink back into our abode to peruse the veritable mountain of things that shall satisfy our weird west cravings for many a year to come.
Forar wrote: some of the otherwise unavailable stuff
This wouldn't happen to include an Outlaw, would it? I think that's the only KS exclusive piece?
Yes, but I only have the one set of Outlaw rules, as I didn't bother trying to sort out the person I bought the pledge off of sending me his cores or the other stuff he got in wave 1.
And yeah, these boxes were significant, but I can't imagine what people will be getting when there's 3 more Otherworlds, a half dozen Mission Packs, and all the other stuff crammed in there as well.
Things I have extras of that are available at retail or preorder, prices set around 20% under some of the best retail/sites I can find, in USD before shipping:
- Caverns of Cynder (retail box): $25
Packages will be sent via Canada Post with tracking and insurance where possible.
I got my wave 1.5 shipping on Tuesday... holy crap its a ton of stuff. This is becoming the year of kickstarter fulfillment (AQ,KD, Conan, SOB, etc).
I have to say that they have done a great job with the new minis. They are far more detailed than the core set minis. The plastic seems better and is very easy to clean and glue. The resin characters? That was a great idea. The heroes are so much better than before, and the resin is very durable (almost hard to cut due to it's durability).
I had stopped playing for several months as I had played the same enemies, heroes, etc, for a while and started playing some new games (deathwatch overkill, horus heresy, etc). I now have a ton of new heroes, enemies, another world/tiles, cards, and shiny dice to spruce up the game. Oh and the drifter and outlaw sculpts are just freaking amazing.... Super excited for this game to hit my table again!
Had another epic gaming day that went a bit differently than planned, but was a great time all the same.
I wanted to pre-build a pair of Otherworld adventures, but the core rule books don't include any pre-built OW maps, so instead I took two of the existing Mine pre-builds, and simply flipped them over to have the OW tiles in their place.
The group of 6 decided collectively to adventure into the Jargono swamps, only to be stymied with fight after fight due to unlucky lantern rolls (the lantern bearer shut off the lit base each time he failed it, which remained amusing all night long).
After facing two sets of Trederran Raiders, a Night Terror and a Void Hound, we finally made it into the swamps, only to get jumped by Serpentmen (one of which destroyed my character in a single attack for 18 undefendable damage; armour is your friend against Brutal enemies).
Clearing them out took a while, and realizing it was getting late, we declared our first tile flipped to be the one we were looking for (how convenient!), which spawned the final battle... a Burrower and 6 Void Tentacles.
>.<
With 120 health on that thing, it took everything we had to bring it down, getting fairly lucky with the rolls for more tentacles (none) and the turn events (only burrowed one time).
The final pics are of the unused Targa adventure, including a room I designed for the final encounter, whenever it would've popped.
Not that I'm aware of. From comments chatter it's boiled down to a few possible outstanding orders and mixed hope/fear as to whether or not FFP can hit that target at the end of the year.
Nothing big since the preview of Trederra and the pile of monsters/mission foes we got a while back.
That's fantastic news, I'm glad to hear it's still an option!
Even as someone who remains cautiously optimistic about wave 2 shipping late this year or early next year, getting that huge pile of stuff really cements just how much content this line will have by the time they deliver the rest of what they owe the backers.
Let alone might be generated in the years to come, whenever they return to add more once everything is parceled out to retail at least.
Sadly I don't have any big games days lined up at the moment (April and May look pretty hectic for my usual crew), but if I can tear myself away from Warframe for a few hours a night, maybe I can actually start painting up more of the monsters so fewer of my pictures just have darkly primed blobs instead of enemies.
Yeah, it was just the sculpt that was to be exclusive.
In other news, FFP reached out to me when I made mention about not having received my 1.5 stuff. Within a week I had it. I never even contacted them directly, but just left a comment on the KS.
Good on them for checking up on it!
Now I need to get on the horn about my Frontier Town outlaws who got pulled too early from the mold and don't have heads or arms...
Jun 10 2016
Wave 2 Update! Second Chance at Wave 1.5! Trederra Mega Preview!
Hello Brimstone Fans-
It has been too long! We basically had to put our noses directly to the grindstone to make some production deadlines. Hence, the radio silence. But, now we have re-emerged to touch base and give an update on Shadows of Brimstone progress.
Wave 1.5 Update
Just in case you're not sure what this is all about, Wave 1.5 is an optional extra shipping Wave between Wave 1 and Wave 2 that Backers were able to purchase in the Pledge Manager or for a limited time in the Flying Frog Web Store. It includes all of the expansion material that is ready now. For more information about Wave 1.5, please see Update #56.
We completed shipping the Wave 1.5 Orders all around the globe and are excited to see pictures online of backers playing with all of the new content and painting up the new figures! We look forward to getting these expansions into the hands of ALL backers with Wave 2. Those backers that purchased the optional Wave 1.5 shipping, not only got a big box of stuff early, but it also helped us to create the process for organizing and packing those items. So, when the time comes, organizing and packing of Wave 2 will be more streamlined. If you purchased Wave 1.5 Shipping and did not receive your Wave 1.5 package, please email admin@flyingfrog.net to let us know.
Wave 1.5 Second Chance
We have received a lot of emails from backers who missed out on purchasing Wave 1.5 or have just reconsidered after seeing all the cool stuff that people got in 1.5. We were able to add some of them into the Wave 1.5 process until we ran out of some of the new resin Hero minis. But, we now have another round of the resin Heroes and a streamlined process for 1.5 packing. So, we would like to give backers a second chance at Wave 1.5. We don't expect a flood of new Wave 1.5 Orders, but based on the emails about it, we know that there is interest and we just wanted to be sure that it is available to ALL backers, not just the folks that email us about it. If you are interested in purchasing the optional Wave 1.5 Shipping, we have made it available once again in the Flying Frog Web Store for a limited time.
Wave 2 Update
This is the subject on everyone's minds. Our minds as well! We are crunching very hard to get all remaining Expansion Material from the Kickstarter completed. The good news is that we are closing in on it! Some of our artists have already wrapped up work on the KS material and have moved on to the next project (one that this group will be quite interested in - more info on this in the future).
We are still working toward the goal of finalizing development on all remaining KS items and finishing manufacturing by the end of the year. From our experience with shipping Wave 1.5, we can see that processing and shipping of the massive Wave 2 will take many months. So, while we plan to begin shipping soon after completion of the manufacturing, it will take quite a while to process and ship all of those orders. Between now and then, we plan to show off some exciting previews of the Wave 2 material in KS Updates. We start today, with a preview of the Deluxe OtherWorld Expansion, Trederra...
Trederra Preview
When we started putting together the Trederra Expansion, we hit some hurdles. At the time of the Kickstarter, it made sense that each OtherWorld Expansion would have a new set of map tiles, associated cards, and one new enemy. Then there were some other enemies from Trederra available to add on. Once we got further into development, we realized that we really needed to integrate those different Trederra enemies into the same box. This allows for different combinations of enemy types to show up in the Threat Deck, Missions, etc. It also allows for more card support for those Trederran enemies. We could have entire new decks of cards such as Battlefield Orders, Master Forged Wargear, Trederran Factions, etc.
The solution was to create the notion of a "Deluxe" OtherWorld Expansion which will be sold at a higher price point in retail. This means more enemies, more miniatures, actual plastic models for the Cover Terrain, more cards, and even a bigger rulebook! We also wanted to have different types of leaders for the Trederrans. Rather than simply one Field Marshal, we decided to change him into three Lieutenants of specialty types: Battle Lieutenant, Comm Officer, and Mutant Lieutenant. Backers who purchased the Field Marshal will instead get the three Lieutenants (at no additional cost).
The complication of making Trederra into a Deluxe Expansion is that different backers are getting different items - one backer may be getting the Trederra Expansion (which in the KS included Trederran Legionnaires) and the Z-4 Grenadiers, but no Field Marshal or Trederran Mutants. Another backer may only be getting the Trederra Expansion and that's it. Obviously, we want you guys to be able to get any models that you are missing to complete the Expansion. We have also added plastic miniatures for the Cover Terrain (Tank Traps and Crate&Barrels) that were never planned during the Kickstarter. The way we put together the miniature sprues, the Crate&Barrels are on the Z-4 Grenadier Sprues and the Tank Traps are on the Lieutenant Sprues. So, we have decided to just include them with their associated enemies - if you purchased Z-4 Grenadiers, you get the Crate&Barrels for free, if you purchased the Field Marshal (now three Lieutenants), you get the Tank Traps for free.
There will be a way for backers to purchase any remaining enemy groups to complete their Trederra Deluxe Expansion box set. This will be put up on the Official Flying Frog Web Store before Wave 2 shipping begins. Backers that decline to complete their Trederra Deluxe Expansion box set will simply receive the individual components that were part of their pledge.
As a preview of the upcoming OtherWorld Deluxe Expansion, we have a video of Jason giving an overview at the GAMA Trade Show in Vegas, some splashy images of game cards and production plastic minis, and we've even ripped some pages out of the Trederra Adventure Book. We chose a few exciting pages that explain the new Cover Terrain, Trederran Enemy Types, and the Factions of Trederra, including uniform color schemes.
Production Plastic Trederran Legionnaires - There are two unique poses and the upper body and lower body of each can be swapped for more variety. Heads are separate and can be glued on facing any direction!
Production Plastic Trederran Z-4 Grenadier and the Crate&Barrel Cover Terrain.
Production Plastic Trederran Lieutenant and Tank Trap Cover Terrain. The Lieutenant sprue has the pieces to build three types of Lieutenant: Battle Lieutenant, Comm Officer, and Mutant Lieutenant.
Production Plastic Trederran Mutants - tentacle arms can be mixed and matched and glued on in any direction. Heads are also separate and can be glued on in any facing!
Well, that's all for now. We're headed back to that grindstone!
Happy Gaming!
Scott and Jason
As a Minecart Level backer - am I already getting everything in the Deluxe OtherWorld Expansion for Trederra, or will I be looking at some add-on spending if I want 'everything'?
I almost believe it's deliberate, to try and claw some more money out of backers, but no Minecart backers are getting the complete box set by default, unless they specifically added on the Trederran Mutants that were included as a paid add on only in the pledge manager (they didn't unlock during the campaign). So it looks like all Minecart backers need to add those on if they want the box set.
I have no idea what happened to the 6 Trederran Raiders that every Outlaw and up pledge was getting either. No mention of them.
The Raiders were indeed found in 1.5, Trederran foes have cards to show up in a variety of places as they're always on the hunt for more Darkstone. So those are done and 'in the wild' for those who could justify the extra shipping.
There were 3 things that FFP added on after the fact to the Pledge Manager; Tribal Ghost Warriors, Trun Hunters, and Trederran Mutants. These were stretch goals that we got close to but fell just short of in one case (last minute pledge pulls to the tune of thousands of dollars).
Mine Cart Backers, as noted by Bioptic, do not innately get the Mutants. Now, yes, I am a ravenously cheerleady fanboy, but I don't think it's necessarily malicious.
Speaking purely from what we've read and seen and some chats I was fortunate enough to have with some FFP folks at Gencon, there has always been some concern with just how many SKUs this product line was generating. As with Cynder, we saw a bunch of them pulled together (as was anticipated during the campaign itself, in the comments) to keep things that were thematically appropriate together. I would think that they tried to balance out their options between including them in the Otherworld box or making them a Trun Hunter style standalone enemy kit.
Making them a standalone seems sensible; it removes the worries about backer shipments and simply adds another box to put on shelves, but leaves the OW box 'incomplete' as it were. It also boosts the number they need to make to match the number of Otherworld boxes, as opposed to simply guessing how many they should produce (given that these are in plastic, I'm guessing justifying "just make it X0,000" simplifies things a bit).
Including them complicates the backers lives a little bit, yes, but also makes it a one-off for retail, no muss no fuss, and assuming Trederra will be at least a Cynder sized box, I'm sure finding the space for a stat card, some threat cards and the sprues makes more sense in terms of space usage.
Following that train of thought; in the pledge manager the Trederrans were $15, just like the Trun. The Trun's MSRP ended up being $20 US, and CSI has them on sale for $13. So the math basically boils down to; if you were likely to get them anyway, paying FFP $15 for them to be added directly is minimally different from them being made into a standalone kit that would've likely cost about the same (or more) at retail, even with a generous discount.
I really hope a difference of $2 US (assuming a similar pricing structure) isn't something the community at large is going to quibble over in a $150-600+ (for most backers) campaign.
There's way too much hurfblurf in that update without any actual content for those of us who didn't pay the huge amount (for Aussies, anyway) for extra shipping.
If they make purchasing the upgrade simple, and something that can be done easily for a few bucks without too much fething about (and no additional shipping) sometime closer to the ship date, then I'll pay it, no problem.
I imagine it'd be like the Colonel Scafford upgrade that happened prior to 1.5. Done through their online store, took a couple of minutes, got it just fine.
What was that one? I've mostly been skimming and ignoring their infrequent updates. Seems the best way to not get annoyed/stressed/angry about the huge delays and years before Mine Cart finally arrives.
Maybe further post-KS expansions (the oft clamoured for Hell Train? Belly of the Beast? A 7th Otherworld would be a thing I'd be very interested in. Or perhaps a new game/expansion/product line that might have similar themes? I lean towards the former (more SoB stuff), but it's vague enough to be anything.
My main takeaway from that is simply how far along they are. If they're retasking resources to other projects (SoB related or not), that feels like a good sign that they are *actually* making really substantial progress towards completion.
Automatically Appended Next Post: On further thought, given how many people got bonus credit in their mine cart, I imagine this actually affects even fewer people than I originally thought.
And those who were below the 'gets credit' MC tier were getting simply absurd savings in the first place.
I'm sure there are a few cases who kind of fall in the cracks and get screwed (the Pledge Manager $500 MC tier didn't get any credit, as I recall, so that's both expensive and missing out on the chance to have gotten the figures included, but they also paid long after the original money was collected, and I'm okay with showing a little extra appreciation for the people who put down money during the campaign, rather than waiting for the PM to land.
I agree with you in that it does feel like they're really far along now, but I think there's also enough 'wiggle room needed' mentioned in there that I would also not be surprised at all if the Wave 2 stuff doesn't ship out to backers until...right about now, 2017!
Alpharius wrote: I agree with you in that it does feel like they're really far along now, but I think there's also enough 'wiggle room needed' mentioned in there that I would also not be surprised at all if the Wave 2 stuff doesn't ship out to backers until...right about now, 2017!
Tying back again to their previous statements in updates and comments, I think they're leaving themselves some wiggle room based on issues beyond their control. Given that some people are prone to freaking out over anything and everything as though it's The Final Insult(tm), some recognition is prudent (in terms of managing expectations) that even if they're on the verge of wrapping things up in the next 3-6 months, all it takes is one delayed ship or one printer/production facility with an issue to set them back, and then it's all about the betrayal and 'slap in the face' and whatnot.
Not here, of course. I'm of course more referring to the 'usual suspects' on the KS comments and a few other venues (BGG has a couple who you'd think FFP went and violated their houseplants at some point in the last year or two).
Alpharius wrote: I agree with you in that it does feel like they're really far along now, but I think there's also enough 'wiggle room needed' mentioned in there that I would also not be surprised at all if the Wave 2 stuff doesn't ship out to backers until...right about now, 2017!
Tying back again to their previous statements in updates and comments, I think they're leaving themselves some wiggle room based on issues beyond their control. Given that some people are prone to freaking out over anything and everything as though it's The Final Insult(tm), some recognition is prudent (in terms of managing expectations) that even if they're on the verge of wrapping things up in the next 3-6 months, all it takes is one delayed ship or one printer/production facility with an issue to set them back, and then it's all about the betrayal and 'slap in the face' and whatnot.
Not here, of course. I'm of course more referring to the 'usual suspects' on the KS comments and a few other venues (BGG has a couple who you'd think FFP went and violated their houseplants at some point in the last year or two).
Ha!
That's a rather good - and sad! - summary of many KS comments sections.
I've seen you try and fight the good fight a few times in various ones, but I don't have the time or patience to do it myself.
It's why I fire up the Forar Signal here every now and then - and your efforts are appreciated!
Forar wrote: Only applies to Outlaw backers. Mine Cart's have him.
Here's the update in question if you'd like to glance at it, but assuming you have an MC it's a moot point.
Ah, cool, thanks - I have a MC pledge. I find this thread a better place to follow the KS than in the actual updates. I don't want to look at the pretty pictures of or read about shipping wave 1.5 so the last year or so of updates has been skimmed over at best. When they eventually talk about whatever this upgrade is, it'd be awesome if you post about it here.
Which reminds me, there's been some chatter on the KS comments, from info found on BGG (originally posted by Lou Michalski, credit where credit is due);
"So over at BGG gencon preview page, ffp has this listed
• In addition to what's listed below, at Gen Con 2016 Flying Frog Productions plans to release thirteen(!) other items, all of them related to Shadows of Brimstone and twelve of them being "Gen Con Preview Version"s of items that will be "air-freighted in as a sneak preview for Gen Con". I'm working with FFP to get these items listed in the BGG database so that I can include them properly. FFP's Scott Hill adds, "Models and components are final production versions, but they are sold in a plain box as a super sneak preview in very limited quantities at the show!"
The what is listed below is the trederra preview. So they are doing 13 gen con preview items, we know some of them are the 1.5 items."
Followed by a second post:
"Also they are going to have previews of derelict ship and blasted wasteland, which won't be for sale but they are running a demo of derelict ship mission."
Feth me. I've repeatedly said that Gencon would be our litmus test for just how far along they were, and having Trederra done and the other 2 Otherworlds set for prototype display/demo is incredible! There's still enemies and heroes and a half dozen mission packs and more to do, but that's great news!
Sorry, I'm not going this year. Hope to next year, but I'm also hoping really hard that they're done with wave 2 entirely 12+ months from now. I'm hoping it's done 6-8'ish from now, but I'm also realistic that they could get dealt a blow of one form or another yet.
Edit: Oh, and thank you, guys! That was totally in there, but apparently doing some copy/pasting left the comments but not my appreciation for the shout out.
I don't think I can justify backing this on top of what I already contribute annually to Dwarven Forge, but I'll be keeping my eye on it all the same. Maybe pitch them a buck to keep tabs.
As for SoB, as posted by Lou Michalski on the KS comments, which he allegedly found on BGG, here's the tentative list of what may be present at Gencon this year for early preview limited release;
Shadows of Brimstone: OtherWorld: Trederra Deluxe Expansion
· Shadows of Brimstone: ‘Edge of the Abyss’ Card Supplement
· Shadows of Brimstone: Flesh Stalker and Flesh Drones Deluxe Enemy Set Gen Con Preview Version
· Shadows of Brimstone: Old West Allies Expansion Gen Con Preview Version
· Shadows of Brimstone: Undead Gunslinger and Undead Outlaws Deluxe Enemy Set Gen Con Preview Version
· Shadows of Brimstone: Swamp Raptor XL Enemy Gen Con Preview Version
· Shadows of Brimstone: Sand Kraken XXL Enemy Gen Con Preview Version
· Shadows of Brimstone: Beli’al, Last of the Shadow Kings XXL Enemy Gen Con Preview Version
· Shadows of Brimstone: Drifter Hero Gen Con Preview Version
· Shadows of Brimstone: Orphan Hero Gen Con Preview Version
· Shadows of Brimstone: Prospector Hero Gen Con Preview Version
· Shadows of Brimstone: Jargono Native Hero Gen Con Preview Version
· Shadows of Brimstone: Frontier Doc Hero Gen Con Preview Version
· Shadows of Brimstone: Cowboy Hero Gen Con Preview Version
If true, for those of you keeping track at home, it seems to cover just about everything that was found in the base Outlaw tier (maybe a few card packs that'd need finishing, but compared to some of this stuff I can only assume that's a 'knock it out in an evening over drinks' size part of the game (figuratively of course; artwork, rules tweaks and testing, etc take time).
So, as I like to snark about the gloom and doom'ers on BGG and the KS Comments, obviously this means that delivery has just been pushed back a decade, because somehow showing progress is the worst thing possible.
We're still about a million models away from Mine Cart, though - right? Probably another 1-2 years before fulfilment at the rate they're going? Or perhaps longer?
I ask this without snark. I've been deliberately not following this KS in much detail aside from this thread because August 2014. and I have enough in my life to be angry about without keeping KS like this one, Robotech, Journey, Trollforged active in my mind. (And a good thing I bailed on Imbrian Arts, AVP and Creature Caster!)
Hopefully not quite "1-2+ years". There's still work to do, certainly, but they've been repeating for a while the 'end of 2016' target.
They'll still have 2 Otherworlds, 6 Mission Packs, and some enemies/cards/odds and ends, but I believe they've said there'd be a prototype demonstration of one of those two OW's, hopefully meaning it's not far from production.
Will they be delivering Mine Carts by December 31st? I don't know, but given their rate of completion between Gencon 2014 and Gencon 2016, I'm sincerely hoping they're *done* by Gencon 2017 (including massive buffers for delays, snags, or other extenuating circumstances).
Long winded way to say "I don't know, we'll see, but FFP have been pretty optimistic this year and I remain cautiously optimistic as well".
We almost have half a year left to go, at the very least I'm hoping they're basically done everything and it becomes a matter of waiting on production/shipping and beginning distribution, which will totally take a while, but at least it's a light at the end of the tunnel.
Jul 16 2016
Progress Update! Plus Gen Con Info and Preview
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Hello Brimstone Gang!
We've been feverishly working away on the remaining Shadows of Brimstone expansion material from the Kickstarter. It's going well, and we are still aiming for completing production by the end of the year. This update, we show off some of that progress and also cover information about Gen Con, which is almost upon us.
Flesh Stalker
Flesh Stalkers are a mysterious, rare, and ancient alien race. Masters of super science and the macabre, they work in the shadows, only emerging when required to accomplish their fiendish goals! Flesh Stalkers are known for the ruthless and gruesome experiments they perform, splicing the DNA and body parts of various creatures and people together to create hideous monstrosities to do their bidding.
In developing the Flesh Stalker, we realized that he really needs minions to do his nefarious bidding. The creation of the Flesh Drones really "fleshed" out the character and upgraded him from a simple enemy to an entire Deluxe Enemy Pack with new missions, Encounters, Artifacts, Threats, and all new decks including 'Fiendish Goals' and the Flesh Stalker's 'Tools of Terror'.
Production plastics of the Flesh Stalker and both poses of Flesh Drones.
Obviously, the Flesh Stalker was originally conceived as a single enemy during the Kickstarter. As we have done in the past, we will be sure that backers have the option to purchase an upgrade to the full Deluxe Enemy Pack to get the six Flesh Drone enemies and all of the new cards and missions. More specifics on this before we send out Wave 2. Backers that choose not to upgrade, will receive the Flesh Stalker with some of his cards so that he appears only as an Epic Threat, as originally listed in the Kickstarter.
XL Swamp Raptor
Stalking the swampy jungles of Jargono, the deadly Swamp Raptor is one of the creatures most feared by tribal natives and Serpentmen alike! With its thick-scaled hide, lightning fast speed, and viciously sharp teeth, the Swamp Raptor is the ultimate predator of the jungle.
We are very proud of the new level of detail that we have achieved in the latest models. The Swamp Raptor has very detailed reptilian skin, sharp teeth, and a dynamic fin ridge down its back! The kit goes together easily and looks really sharp!
XXL Sand Kraken
Tunneling through rock and sand and time, these ancient and massive creatures lay dormant beneath the surface of the world for millenia. Earthquakes rock the ground and mountains tremble as the most massive of these beasts stir in thier timeless slumber, waiting to awaken, rumbling to the surface to feed their eternal hunger. When a Sand Kraken re-emerges from the deep, breaking through the surface like the tip of a horrifying iceberg, the vast majority of its beastly body remains writhing and clawing through the ocean of rock below.
We just received some new production plastics in the studio including the Swamp Raptor and Sand Kraken. The detail on the Sand Kraken really looks great, from the chitinous surface of each reptilian scale on the body to the eroded cuts in each of the rocks in the base!
Gen Con Events
Here is a listing of our Gen Con Special Events (all taking place at the Flying Frog Booth #1149):
Shadows of Brimstone Painting Contest (No Cost to Enter, Limit One Entry Per Category, You must have painted the miniatures personally) Categories include: Best Hero, Best Enemy, and Brimstone Bounty (group of Heroes or Enemies or Diorama). Entries can be turned in at the booth from 10AM Thursday to 2PM Saturday. Judging at 2PM Saturday, Winners announced 3PM Saturday, Prizes Awarded.
Preview of the Derelict Ship and Blasted Wastes OtherWorlds as well as the Campaign Mission Packs for Shadows of Brimstone with Designer Jason C. Hill, Thursday 3-6PM : Jason gives a personal tour of these future expansions for Shadows of Brimstone giving fans a glimpse of work that is currently in development. Several players will also get to play in a deadly Derelict Ship Scenario.
Sneak Preview of Flying Frog’s Next Big Thing, Friday 4-6PM : Flying Frog creators, Jason and Scott Hill, give a sneak preview of their next project!
Trederran Trench War!, Shadows of Brimstone Mega Event, Saturday 4-6PM : Flying Frog creators, Jason and Scott Hill, run this mega event at the main event table in the FFP booth on Saturday afternoon. Nothing necessary to play, just grab a hero and delve into the war-torn world of Trederra! Face off against Trederran forces as you attempt to shut down their sinister doomsday plot! Players earn victory points to win prizes in this epic adventure!
Painting Shadows of Brimstone Miniatures with Aaron Lovejoy, Thursday-Sunday All Day : Professional Painter, Aaron Lovejoy, shares his techniques and tips for painting the Shadows of Brimstone figures. He should know, as he is the studio painter for all of Flying Frog’s Shadows of Brimstone Minis.
Frontier Town 3D Brimstone Adventure, Thursday-Sunday All Day (No Cost to Enter, runs all day, No Sign up) : It’s a shootout in the streets of the Frontier Town like you’ve never seen it before – in a huge 3D game table!
City of the Ancients 3D Targa Adventure, Thursday-Sunday All Day (No Cost to Enter, runs all day, No Sign up) : Play through the frozen ancient alien city in a huge pre-built 3D game table!
Building Brimstone: How to Construct 3D Game Boards with Ellian and Daniel, Friday 2-3PM : Artists, Ellian Opheim and Daniel Samuelsson, show you how they constructed the beautiful and detailed 3D game boards for Shadows of Brimstone!
Build Your Brimstone Miniatures with Brian Snoddy, Sunday 2-4PM : Concept artist, Brian Snoddy, shows you how to build the creatures that he concepted. Glue and tools are provided, just bring your Shadows of Brimstone models.
Gen Con Pick Up
We have received a lot of messages asking about a Gen Con pick up. We have been working hard to put together something cool but also logistically possible. We have decided to offer two options for the Gen Con pick up:
Option #1 Big Box of Stuff - We can process your Pledge in advance and ship it to Gen Con for an in-person Pick Up. It will include everything that we have ready up to this point. You must pre-register for this in advance of Gen Con and we will need to charge a $20 registration fee (for shipping and handling). This pre-registration will close on July 25th or when we run out of the limited slots available (about 100 backers). At the time of pick up, you will have the option to purchase missing enemies to complete your OtherWorld:Trederra Expansion and Flesh Stalker and Flesh Drones Deluxe Enemy Pack.
Get Pre-Registration for Gen Con 2016 Big Box Pick Up now!
Option #2 OtherWorld: Trederra - No pre-registration necessary. If you are a Kickstarter Backer who is slated to receive OtherWorld:Trederra (Minecart Pledge or as an Add-On to an Outlaw Pledge), you can pick up this Deluxe Expansion. We have limited quantities (air shipping these in early at great expense), so we will have 50 available for pick up on Thursday at 10AM and 50 available on Saturday at 10AM. We may have additional copies available for Pick up on Sunday at 3PM. At the time of pick up, you will have the option to purchase missing enemies to complete your OtherWorld:Trederra Expansion.
Well, that's it for now. We hope to see many of you at Gen Con in a few weeks. Be sure to stop by the booth and say hi!
Cheers,
Scott and Jason
So, it looks if the goal is still 2016:
We've been feverishly working away on the remaining Shadows of Brimstone expansion material from the Kickstarter. It's going well, and we are still aiming for completing production by the end of the year.
Are those flesh drones included automatically, or do we all have to pay for them now? What about Minecart pledges?
Raptor looks smaller than I remember. Thought they had shown it off before and it was larger. I like the sculpt. Wouldn't mind getting some extra, especially if their current level of detail holds.
I hope they have at least one new surprise at Gencon that we don't know about.
I think Minecart (and maybe Outlaw?) backers are getting the Flesh Stalker only.
But otherwise:
Obviously, the Flesh Stalker was originally conceived as a single enemy during the Kickstarter. As we have done in the past, we will be sure that backers have the option to purchase an upgrade to the full Deluxe Enemy Pack to get the six Flesh Drone enemies and all of the new cards and missions. More specifics on this before we send out Wave 2. Backers that choose not to upgrade, will receive the Flesh Stalker with some of his cards so that he appears only as an Epic Threat, as originally listed in the Kickstarter.
They've not yet given us the option to "upgrade" - I assumed this meant that Minecart backers would be getting the deluxe enemy pack. Didn't they do this for some of the other stuff? Rats came with the rat's nest, bandits with the Town expansion?
But reading the comments, others feel the same: if you backed Minecart, you'll have to do something to get the full deluxe fleshstalker pack.
I'll add my voice to the chorus: how do we get this?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Ah, a more careful read of the update and yes, I'm wrong! We'll get more details later on how to purchase him, even if we'd backed at the Minecart level.
Alpharius wrote:I think Minecart (and maybe Outlaw?) backers are getting the Flesh Stalker only.
But otherwise:
Obviously, the Flesh Stalker was originally conceived as a single enemy during the Kickstarter. As we have done in the past, we will be sure that backers have the option to purchase an upgrade to the full Deluxe Enemy Pack to get the six Flesh Drone enemies and all of the new cards and missions. More specifics on this before we send out Wave 2. Backers that choose not to upgrade, will receive the Flesh Stalker with some of his cards so that he appears only as an Epic Threat, as originally listed in the Kickstarter.
pancakeonions wrote:They've not yet given us the option to "upgrade" - I assumed this meant that Minecart backers would be getting the deluxe enemy pack. Didn't they do this for some of the other stuff? Rats came with the rat's nest, bandits with the Town expansion?
But reading the comments, others feel the same: if you backed Minecart, you'll have to do something to get the full deluxe fleshstalker pack.
I'll add my voice to the chorus: how do we get this?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Ah, a more careful read of the update and yes, I'm wrong! We'll get more details later on how to purchase him, even if we'd backed at the Minecart level.
Yes, indeed!
As a 'Minecart' backer, I was initially a bit "WTF?!?" but in the long run, I want them to succeed and if they can do this by generating a bit of income for something that wasn't planned as part of the campaign, I'm OK with it.
As a friend pointed out, one need not do anything to get exactly what we backed for.
Like some of the other upgrades, it looks like they decided there was room for improvement, went with that for the retail release, but that giving away thousands of copies of the excess wasn't financially viable.
If $10 for the extra sprues makes that work, I'm down with that.
Which is to say that my cheerleading remains strong with this one.
Looks like it is compatible with SoB and has the Belly of the Beast other-world to use for both games.
Kickstarter is coming after they have finished with SoB so I think this October is a bit on the optimistic side. The Kickstarter will also be a lot smaller in scope than SoB.
I'm down.
Automatically Appended Next Post: edit: Apparently the new kickstarter is coming when the final SoB items are at the printers, rather than delivered so October may be feasible.
Not just compatible, from what I'm reading, it looks like this is the 'third core box' for SoB. It's standalone in the same way that City of the Ancients and Swamps of Jargono are standalone. If the thematic differences are too much for some people, they can play it as its own thing, otherwise it's basically two otherworlds in one with a big pile of enemies and heroes included.
Forar wrote: Well, if it's *literally* "Shadows of Brimstone Core Box 3", then glancing at City of the Ancients, it shouldn't be a problem.
Something that wouldn't hurt to ask during the campaign, for sure.
There was a new update yesterday and they have confirmed it is actually a new Shadows of Brimstone core box so it will all be 100% compatible. I was expecting it to be a new game instead with ability to crossover with SoB.
There are also 3 new enemy miniatures available on the webstore that are not part of the Mine Cart pledge level (they are resin versions, no confirmation as to whether plastic will be available later). Edit: I have just checked the webstore and these are new miniatures but not actually new enemies. The Serpentmen of Jargono , Masters of the Void and Scafford Gang expansions can sometimes spawn more powerful characters and rather then use a standard model to represent them, these are unique models to take their place. I am a bit uncertain as to whether they will actually see a general release because of this.
There is also another new card deck that wasn't from the Kickstarter.
I have it on good authority from the KS comments and update comments that these hints of progress are indicators that they won't ship for another two hundred years, and that anyone expressing anything but sour dejection and betrayed rage is a naive fool who probably eats dirt and molests cactusses, cactusaurs... cacti?
Wait it's actually cacti?
Thank you, Chrome spellcheck!
I think I'll probably skip on the unique models (I have enough of a painting backlog as it is), but that new card set is totally getting added to my mine cart.
Jason from FFP also joined in the comments early this morning, and had this to say;
(I've left either the @ or quotes for people's questions/statements, and the "-" for FFP's responses, of all the petty things I can critique, I wish they didn't quote people in full (or worse, in part) and include their responses in a big block of text... says the guy who commits big block of text atrocities...
"@Alex the Barbarian, Egor Tilpunov, Laurent Gitton, Blackdeath, MiB - I'm sorry to hear that you are frustrated with the way that we handle our business and the Kickstarter. Until you walk a mile in someone's shoes, I guess it is hard to have any understanding or empathy. We are working very, very hard to complete everything as fast as possible while retaining the quality bar that we hold as our standard. It would have been easy to cut corners and kick stuff out the door as cheaply and quickly as possible once the KS was complete (which was almost exactly 2 yrs 9 months ago to the day that the KS funding period finished - not sure where some are getting the 'over 3 years' or '4 years' hyberbole, etc). Obviously the project has taken longer than originally intended, but we worked very hard to make sure that backers got the 2 Core Sets within a reasonable amount of time close to the estimated delivery date. You should all have had your Core Sets for some time now, as we work to finish all of the remaining material. Quality takes time and the scope of the project is far, far larger than it was when we first set the 'estimated delivery' (which you cannot change once the KS starts btw).
@Martin Crane - "Which of the following card sets are included in the minecart pledge? Badlands supplement, Cynder Artifacts, Dead man bounty, reasures of the void, jango artifacts and targa artifacts?"
- Badlands Expedition, Deadman's Bounty, and Treasures of the Void were Stretch Goals, Cynder, Targa, and Jargono Artifacts were Add-Ons in the Pledge Manager (you only get them if you added them after the fact in the Pledge Manager, as they were not part of the KS itself)."
"@Laurent Gitton - "not sure if it's funny to see new stuff, while backers are still waiting for their obsolete stuff. "
- I'm not sure I understand 'obsolete stuff'. Nothing has been rendered obsolete.
"Not sure if it's funny to see people working on a new KS while backers are waiting rewards for more than 4 years....of course they can travel to convention in US to get it, or pay a third of their pledge to get it..."
- Everyone working on the new Forbidden Fortress KS has already completed their work on the original SOBS KS. They needed a project to roll onto once they were finished, or they would be sitting around. This is mostly Artists and miniature sculptors that have finished their work on the original KS. As far as waiting 'more than 4 years', the KS launched almost exactly 2 years 8 months ago to the day. So that is just...not reality.
"Is it funny to read news about stuff, but no news about Wave 2 shipping"
- Nothing has changed since the last several Updates when we said clearly stated that Wave 2 was aiming to be finished manufacturing by the end of the year and then shipping would begin. There is no new news. All I can say is that we are still on track for that schedule.
@MiB - "Nice update, great pictures of people playing the game I paid for. Also great to see the creators cheering to themselves about all they did instead of getting my stuff to me."
- They are playing the same game that you have had in your possession for some time now. I don't think that we are 'cheering to ourselves' (but perhaps that comes down to interpretation). We are working day and night to get everything finished for Wave 2 (it is currently 3:29 AM here at Frog HQ on Saturday! ;P)"
"@Lou Michalski - "Those that added the field marshall for trederra, are they getting three like in the retail version or just 1?"
- If you added the Field Marshal in your Pledge, you will be getting all 3 of the Lieutenant models (there are three variations) for him.
"I added the tribal ghost warriors in my outlaw pledge but found out they were being folded into the blasted wastes deluxe set, I was wondering if I could pay the difference and change it to the other indian tribe."
- For specific pledge questions, we will have to work those out with you individually through email.
"Anyways keep up the good work, looking forward to fofo and lnoe 10 anniversary."
- Thanks!
@Benjamin Walter - "First do you know of any problems with Herman customs regarding wave 1.5 shipment? Secound: will you come to Spiel in essen this year? And third: if you come to Spiel will there be a possible pick up?"
- I don't know of any issues with customs for the optional Wave 1.5 shipping. Unfortunately we will not be at Essen this year as we are working hard to get all of Wave 2 finished."
"@barry morgan - "What I resent though is having to pay retail nickel and dimes to pick up odds and sods for the new stuff they are putting into retail packs. Easy fix is have a "get the rest for minecart" addon for close to cost - after all these minis are already done so $20 or so addon for those with a KS minecart would be a fair way to make sure we get what we want and FFP say thanks without having to shell out of their pockets, yes there is an opportunity cost insofar as they "might" get more from us by making us choose to pay retail, but at what cost to goodwill?"
- Unfortunately there are a few more complexities to it than that and we are trying to do what's best for the game, while also making sure that we take care of the Backers as best as we can. We want to avoid anyone feeling like they need to buy redundant stuff because something is packed differently at retail than the original KS version. The intent is not to be making money on these individual upgrades, but to be able to pay for the pieces that are more than a small tweak (many of the increases in scope or content have already been folded in to what backers are getting, at no additional cost).
The remaining 'upgrade' options will be made available before Wave 2 all of Wave 2 starts to ship, once we have a definitive list created.
"thanks for coming here and facing some critisism and negativity head on, more of this will massively help reduce frustration as there is a fair amount of howling at the moon at times...."
- No problem. I would rather address concerns and answer questions than let people speculate or give out misinformation.
@Davros - "My only current concern is the timetable for adding the additional material req to fill the sets and the launch date of SOB-FF ( not FoFo). I am hoping not to have to do it all within a short window. so any approx. info on a timetable for when we can pick up the " missing " items would be a great boon to me. 8)"
- Right now, the current schedule is for the Forbidden Fortress KS to start around the end of October. We will most likely be doing the definitive list of 'upgrade' options for the original SOBS KS sometime in Nov/Dec
"I asked a friend of mine to raise with you the possibility of their being a gear/ Artefact card the was in some way reminiscent to a sonic screwdriver, the message he relayed back from GenCon was not to get my hopes up as it was unlikely!!!. this was disappointing news, and I hope you will reconsider,. "
- I would think that, Davros, you of all people would be afraid of a Sonic Screwdriver getting into the wrong hands (especially the Frontier Doc)! ;P
@MiB - "So instead of getting all defensive, why don't you sit down, make the list: items still not delivered, production status, difference from retail, way to get it for backers. That's what I would call an update."
- I understand. I don't feel that I'm being defensive, just trying to make sure that everyone is on the same page and not spinning in hyperbole. As far as the list you are asking for, that is something that we will most certainly have, but we want to make sure that it is the definitive list before putting it out there."
"@Lou Michalski - "Someone on the sobs fb community group was expressing some issue with the assembly of the new flesh drones, they said there is a part on their arm which is flat on flat with no tab or slot to hold. It was difficult for them to hold steady till the glue dried. They expressed concern more models in the future would be like that. Do you expect more issues for someone like that with future model release?"
- The Flesh Drone models were designed to be in as few pieces as possible while still having very dynamic poses. If they are having trouble gluing their arms on, I would guess they are probably not using Plastic Cement (super glue tends to be really runny unless you use Gel, and can make it hard to stay in place until it sets). Plastic Cement is generally far better for hard plastic (HIPS) as it is thicker and instantly begins a chemical bond between the two plastic surfaces (melting both sides together). We have a lot of different styles of connection points on the different models, and we generally use the type of connection point best suited to be few pieces but with a good pose."
"@Robert Shone - "as a UK Outlaw Backer, will there be any other options to purchase any of the additional miniatures or upgrades to delux packs, before Wave 2 ships out as I'm unaware of any reliable FFP stockists in the UK to purchase them from at retail after I've gotten the other bits."
- That is a good question that I am not sure of right now. We will have a better idea as we get closer to Wave 2 shipping. As far as retailers in the UK, we are exclusively distributed through Esdevium Games in the UK. I would suggest going on their website or contacting them to find retail stores that carry the product in your area."
Sorry if I messed up any formatting. The main takeaways are;
- Wave 2 delivery is STILL on target for the end of this year.
- Forbidden Fortress KS campaign is aiming for late October.
- They will not be as Essen this year.
- There will be a final 'upgrade list' to allow backers to 'fill in' the things that have changed over the years, aiming for Nov/Dec.
Thanks for heading so deep into the darkness of the comment section for us Forar.
I hope the wait for Wave 2 makes this Kickstarter worth it for everyone. The more I see of the newer stuff, the more impressed and eager I am to receive it.
I should email them and find out if they'll include one ot those GenCon Swamp Raptor 3 packs for backers in their final topping off pledges update.
Curious to see if SOB-FF has as much starting drama as Brimstone proper did.
I'm excited just for the fact that it's proper Japanese stuff my wife is more willing to give the game a try. Culturally acceptable perhaps?
That seems like a good question. I'm hearing that the retail box will include 3, so I'm guessing that will be something we can jump in for as well, as with the Flesh Stalker/Drones, Colonel Scafford, etc.
I expect the next campaign to have some drama. Some $1 trolls stirring the pot, and presumably some repeat 10k backers who drop out near the end (I doubt that has been forgotten).
I hope that people don't bother, that they have better things to do with their time, but there's enough vocal types shouting THIS IS A *SLAP* IN THE *FACE* I figure we'll be in for a bumpy ride.
Which is a shame, because FFP do seem to be learning from their mistakes. They're going to have a LOT of prototype work done if Gencon is any indication, the campaign is allegedly going to be smaller in scope/scale, etc.
As long as they learn from the issues with shipping (like many campaigns, I expect this one will charge 'actual shipping' after the campaign ends, which also means international shipping isn't inflating the numbers towards stretch goals), the tiers won't have nearly the same giant discrepancy in price (or be nearly as huge a savings, and that's okay, they've gotta eat too and being in the red for thousands of backers probably hasn't helped them when snags came up), and the content expansions hopefully won't be nearly as drastic.
Third core box, Hell Train, a few extra enemy kits, maybe a mission pack or two. Keep it roughly within the framework of what the last 3 years have shown that they can reliably design, test, and produce for retail in roughly a year.
That's not with any extra insight, of course, just my hopes/guesses from what I've seen them say.
I usually avoid the SoB comments section due to the number of complaints but posted there today. I wont bother again for another few months. Forar is one of the other constructive voices over there today.
I am torn on the new lieutenant packs as they end up costing a fair amount once you take into account international postage and tax. I would rather wait for a retail box (maybe a collection of all the alternate lieutenant looks) but it's not guaranteed to happen so I will most likely go for it now (grabbing a park of Dark Stone Shards whilst I am at it) and then regret it in a couple of months once it's added to the final pledge manager.
Is there some sort of comprehensive list of if you pledged and got all base stuff, all stretch goals, and all mine cart stuff? Or is there a list of stuff that has been released that is not a part of KS at all?
str00dles1 wrote: Is there some sort of comprehensive list of if you pledged and got all base stuff, all stretch goals, and all mine cart stuff? Or is there a list of stuff that has been released that is not a part of KS at all?
Has anyone *played* through all the delivered content yet? Yeah, a promise is a promise is a KS project, but, as someone who didn't pledge, it sure looks like SoB has a lot of stuff out there. If you paint or make fan material, there's even more mileage you can get out of the game.
FFP isn't CMON or Reaper, but they're showing more preparation at GenCon than they did during their first KS. And, if you still want to get your stuff before pledging, it sure looks like you'll have plenty of SoB to play without FF.
I keep a little google spreadsheet showing all the times I've played, and it's got 36 adventures using the core boxes and wave 1.5 material (mostly the former, this year has been busy).
I think we've used just about everything except maybe the Undead Gunslinger so far. My painting backlog is way behind, and the next 2 months are going to be batgak insane, so I might not get many games in before winter, but I do look forward to the rest delivering, building, priming, painting, and having years worth of adventures ready to go on a moment's notice.
Hell, I'm looking into a new condo (just a rental) and 'has enough storage space for my SoB setup, including 2-3 large folding tables' is a key point in that search.
str00dles1 wrote: Is there some sort of comprehensive list of if you pledged and got all base stuff, all stretch goals, and all mine cart stuff? Or is there a list of stuff that has been released that is not a part of KS at all?
Has anyone *played* through all the delivered content yet? Yeah, a promise is a promise is a KS project, but, as someone who didn't pledge, it sure looks like SoB has a lot of stuff out there. If you paint or make fan material, there's even more mileage you can get out of the game.
FFP isn't CMON or Reaper, but they're showing more preparation at GenCon than they did during their first KS. And, if you still want to get your stuff before pledging, it sure looks like you'll have plenty of SoB to play without FF.
It took having to ask in multiple threads, get all conflicting answers, then PM a few people but I "think" I know what comes from minecart pledge and what is in retail to buy after. This is reinforces how horrid FFP is, regardless of the minis being cool and the game enjoyable.
I don't ever go in kickstarter comment sections as they are never positive. I have to say that I am very happy with this ks. I had paid for 1.5 shipping and have had that wave for some time now. I just purchased many of the resin gencon stuff, even though I will be getting most of it in wave 2. This game is really good, my only qualm was the hero sculpts were poor. This was definitely rectified with the use of resin.
Ffg has done a good job with this. They promised too much, and instead of going belly up, they have taken their time. They have also released product to the public first, but this helped finance some of the backers items.
I couldn't be happier. My only issue with the second kickstarter is it means I'll have to spend more...
It's kind of image heavy, and I'm kind of lazy, so I'm going to skip on the copy/pasting, and just suggest people check it out.
For those who are also lazy, the TLR is;
- Wave 2 is supposed to begin shipping in December or January, but will take a while.
- Blasted Wastes has a preview, and is being upgraded to "Deluxe Expansion" status.
- The Forbidden Fortress Kickstarter (SoB Core Box 3) starts on October 31st!
I hope they add some kind of one-click "Upgrade my Minecart!" option in the online store before they start shipping Wave 2 because I am so damned confused; That or I need a clear breakdown so I can understand which of my expansions can be upgraded to the new Deluxe (retail) level product, and what that leaves in terms of optional purchases.
According to FFP, the new KS will specifically begin at 3pm PST on the 31st, for those that care about getting in early (whether or not there are Early Birds, but I think FFP learned their lesson on that one).
One week and counting, ladies and gents!
It's good to see the general support on the KS page, their FB page, and some other venues I frequent, but it's a bit frustrating to see people taking out their anger over one aspect or another of the current campaign in less than constructive ways.
Not that I'm surprised by this, of course. This is the internet after all. But disappointing all the same.
I was waiting at the announced launch time for the first campaign but they didn't realise they needed Kickstarter approval so they ended up launching a few days later without any announcement (early hours of morning in UK). Thankfully I randomly checked when I woke up the night as only cost me an additional $75 rather than the additional $150 it would have cost me for the minecart in the morning.
Forar wrote: According to FFP, the new KS will specifically begin at 3pm PST on the 31st, for those that care about getting in early (whether or not there are Early Birds, but I think FFP learned their lesson on that one).
Forar wrote: According to FFP, the new KS will specifically begin at 3pm PST on the 31st, for those that care about getting in early (whether or not there are Early Birds, but I think FFP learned their lesson on that one).
Where did they announce this info? Thanks!
Facebook.
"Flying Frog Productions: We are planning for a 3PM PST launch for the Kickstarter!"
Stated several times, because reading the entire comment chain is for chumps. :-P
On a re-read, I should clarify that they haven't said anything about early birds. That's just my own conjecture/hope that we don't see a repeat of the shenanigans surrounding them last time.
I'm guessing a single pledge level with a 24hr $10 EB discount.
I highly doubt they will do an all-in pledge after the Mine Cart shenanigans.
I just hope it isn't plagued by too many people trolling the comments with "but I haven't got my stuff yet!" drivel. I expect a few, of course, as some people can't seem to understand that FFP need to work on something while SoB wave 2 gets manufactured...
I have looked at this game a number of times but "never pulled the trigger"
How does it play?? I have heard it is a Western Warhammer Quest, but I am mostly
interested in the map boards and miniatures for Aces and Eights RPG.
On some of the forums also people are saying the miniatures are very fragile . like
you can easily break weapons off and other things with basic handling.
Also did they ever release the Train expansion.?? Not seeing anything like that on
the online game shops..
The train wasn't reached during the kickstarter, so has not been released yet. I wouldn't be surprised if it turned up as part of this one though as there was a lot of interest in it last time.
The game itself is, as you say, basically a weird west version of Warhammer quest. As a game, I love it. Thematically it works well and BGG has a lot of really good fan made enhancements to the game if all of the official ones aren't enough! I'm really interested to see what the KS has in store for us
I wouldn't say the models were weak for basic handling; not if you are used to Warhammer style models. There is a lot of moaning from the boardgame crowd as they have to stick the figures together, so the fragility comment may have come from an expectation of things being zombicide style plastic, rather than hard sprues. I would say that the detail on the first few releases was fairly basic, but as they have grown as a company, they have become better at producing the figures. They still aren't GW standard (not by a long way), but they are improving.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: Just ordered City of Ancients, Frontier Towns, and Masters of the Void as our "entry" into the series. My wife and I should love it.
So can someone explain how I go about adding expansions? Do I just combined EVERYTHING to create on giant pool of random enemies, locations, loot, etc?
Also, how are campaigns/missions/progression generated? Do I create a pool of missions based on everything I own, and they just randomly come up?
As I mentioned in the news thread. Here is a better place for your questions
Each expansion will have new rules detailed in it, but in most cases, it is simply a case of shuffling the expansion cards into the correct card decks and go from there. You will want something to store all of the cards and chits in... this is the one thing about SoB. There are a lot of cards. Initially it may look overbearing, but each deck comes into play at certain times so you don't need to worry.
The rulebooks contain generic and Otherworld related missions. BGG has some fan made adventures to add into the pool as well. Once you've had a go at a campaign or two out of the box, have a look at the fan made Hexcrawl for a more detailed, persistent campaign. By all accounts it is well worth it
Hi guys. Thanks for the help, as being a transplant from the News and 40k parts of DakkaDakka, I didn't even realize this existed.
I did have a couple questions.
So, can someone clarify some of the flow of play? I've heard there isn't a proper way to play a campaign per se, so where/when would a town-phase even occur? I think i'm confusing how missions are generated. So... missions come on cards? And expansions often add extra missions. Before a session do we just shuffle and draw one?
What specifics do missions demand? Like, is the mission included with Masters of the Void the only way I will encounter those monsters, or do missions not indicated which loot/monsters/etc... to set aside to use during that specific session? As an extention of that, are Swamp themed enemies useless if I don't own that core set, etc?
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: Hi guys. Thanks for the help, as being a transplant from the News and 40k parts of DakkaDakka, I didn't even realize this existed.
I did have a couple questions.
So, can someone clarify some of the flow of play? I've heard there isn't a proper way to play a campaign per se, so where/when would a town-phase even occur? I think i'm confusing how missions are generated. So... missions come on cards? And expansions often add extra missions. Before a session do we just shuffle and draw one?
What specifics do missions demand? Like, is the mission included with Masters of the Void the only way I will encounter those monsters, or do missions not indicated which loot/monsters/etc... to set aside to use during that specific session? As an extention of that, are Swamp themed enemies useless if I don't own that core set, etc?
There is a copy of the original rulebook up on the FFG blog (https://ffpgames.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/sobs_rulebook_web_publish.pdf) that covers the actual gameplay bits. For the campaigns and mission generation, it has been a while since I read the books, but iirc there are 6 generic missions that are the same across both starter boxes, plus 6 Otherworld unique missions in each box. When playing a campaign you can either randomly pick a mission, or play through them as a story. In either case, it is assumed that you go back to town between trips into the mines (which seems a little odd in some cases; though you don't have to). Skill generation is done as and when you have the cash to do it, so you can level up in the mines/Otherworlds iirc. You'll need to do this if you venture through to one of the Otherworlds as there won't be a township over there unless you add in the unofficial Jargano villages from BGG.
Each World/Otherworld has a spawn deck that includes any creatures that you may encounter, so if your mission is only in the Mines, you would use the Mines spawn deck, but as soon as you step through a gateway to Jargano (for example) you would start to use the spawn deck form that world instead. Each add-on pack comes with cards to add into the relevant decks, so be aware when you are buying the current foe boxes which world you are playing in. I would recomend getting both starter sets eventually as it will give you the biggest extension to gameplay imo. The same is true of artefacts. When searching for loot you draw from the generic Loot deck that will include things like Darkstone shards, money or Artefacts. if you pull the Artefact card, then you can pick from the generic artefact deck, or from the relevant Otherworld Artifacts deck. Deck boxes divided up into each world and then card types for that world make it much simpler to run a session.
Thanks again guys. I just found out about FF's webstore and discovered that quite a few expansions are made in VERY limited, print on demand batches. Can anyone suggest any of these?
Some have sold out literally in the last day so I decided to grab the Prospector and Orphan class (Drifter already sold out), and also three of the card supplements that were oriented toward either gear, or the main game, and not any specific other-world.
Do these add a decent amount of value on top of the stuff I already ordered for my wife?
I'm still waiting for all mine to arrive in the Minecart box from the first KS, so I can't really say about the expansions. I would imagine the artefact decks will be great value; I'm not sure about the growing dread pack they released recently as I've not had a chance to compare it to the existing cards.
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: Thanks again guys. I just found out about FF's webstore and discovered that quite a few expansions are made in VERY limited, print on demand batches. Can anyone suggest any of these?
Some have sold out literally in the last day so I decided to grab the Prospector and Orphan class (Drifter already sold out), and also three of the card supplements that were oriented toward either gear, or the main game, and not any specific other-world.
Do these add a decent amount of value on top of the stuff I already ordered for my wife?
I have played SoB a TON, and I would suggest sticking to what you have for now. The "limited" expansions on FFP's web store tend to be left overs from Gencon of things that will get a full print later on. My biggest suggestion would be getting both core sets; I think you said you have City of the Ancients, so grabbing Swamps of Death would give you 4 new classes, 5(?) new enemy types, a few different scavenge cards, many different gear cards, artifact cards, a new Other World and a whole lot of tokens and such. I have both Core sets, Cynder and Frontier Towns. I'm waiting for Trederra to come back in at MM, since I'm not paying the $90 that it's going for on Amazon.
As for game flow, it's fairly straight forward. Pick or randomly determine a mission (I suggest starting with "A Fist Full of Darkstone" for your first game; it's the basic scenario). That gives you a starting setup for your team to explore. Exploration is turn based, with each person moving and an end phase where new encounters are placed. Combat follows much the same principle, with initiative determining character/monster action order and most exploration suspended while monsters are on the board. Once your objective is complete, you head back to town. (I think you said you have Frontier Towns expac, which slightly modifies the basic rules in the Adventure book).
I really do recommend reading the Adventure book back to front. There is a lot of good information in there, especially re: the character classes' abilities.
Thanks guys. I'm sure we'll add Swamps of Death and a handful of expansions as our "next" splurge if we find ourselves playing the game more regularly.
I will say, as a completist, it bugs me that three of five "extra" character classes are sold out at FFG, and aren't sold in stores period. The Drifter, Cowboy, Frontier Doc, and Native all seem like awesome concepts. I don't mind waiting on card add-ons, but missing classes feels like a bigger deal.
Oh, and I saw the KS had Werewolves and Vampires plus tiles and missions for them... Are those out or coming to retail? Is there a release calender for their retail stuff coming up?
Those will be coming to retail at some point, yes. Probably later next year I would imagine. I would also expect the extra characters to get a fresh batch in January when they have their delivery for the ks wave 2 restock
The FFP webstore just updated for Black Friday, and has three new card supplements up for pre-order, as well as finally having all the Gencon Limited Classes back in stock.
I'd been waiting more than a month for some of these so grab 'em if you want them before they disappear again.
My understanding is the card packs are actually new, as in, they aren't part of the KS package, whereas the heroes will be delivered (if you backed high enough for them/ already added them to your outlaw pledge).
The Swamp Slugs and the Hell Vermin are flat out new, created post campaign, nobody is getting them innately. That said, they were also at Gencon 2015, and are already at retail (CoolStuffInc has them, for example).
Yeah, I'm not a minis/plastic type expert, but they feel the same as the other stuff. Pretty sure the resin pieces are explicitly noted as resin, and are usually shorter run things like the alternate heroes and the limited stuff they have at conventions and a few exclusives in the pledge manager.
The slugs are literally two halves of the body on the sprue.
Like Forar said, only the alt genders and newer stretch goal heroes from the original campaign are resin. Everything else is plastic.
I didn't mind the resin (others certainly did) but I'd love to see a box of the later heroes redone in plastic. Some of the resin pieces (guns!) were super SUPER thin. I replaced a few myself.
Unless they say they're resin (and by that, they mean 'real resin), then everything else for this game is HIPS.
Forar wrote:Yeah, I'm not a minis/plastic type expert, but they feel the same as the other stuff. Pretty sure the resin pieces are explicitly noted as resin, and are usually shorter run things like the alternate heroes and the limited stuff they have at conventions and a few exclusives in the pledge manager.
highlord tamburlaine wrote:The slugs are literally two halves of the body on the sprue.
Like Forar said, only the alt genders and newer stretch goal heroes from the original campaign are resin. Everything else is plastic.
I didn't mind the resin (others certainly did) but I'd love to see a box of the later heroes redone in plastic. Some of the resin pieces (guns!) were super SUPER thin. I replaced a few myself.
They're both very much 'not core box enemies', as in, they are not to be trifled with.
Actually, Morgan and I have been trying out SoB online using Roll20.net, and both games ended in a party wipe to those things. At level 1 they are *mean*.
Though we also forgot about the Resurrection token, but at least in one case I don't think it would've helped much.
Maybe some kind of massive adventure. Something that really tests the party. Build a massive board with the tiles, have random and fixed Encounter cards everywhere, multiple Epic threats, and end on a massive fight (multi-bosses maybe?)
Something that will actually challenge the team, something specifically designed to feth with the group, to take advantage of weaknesses, something that will be memorable win or lose.
Now, this assumes that such chinks in the armor exist, and how big the team is. If there's a couple of characters who hit for 'feth you' amounts of damage, that might be tough to pull together, but if you guys are getting up towards the cap at least, that'd be my thoughts.
Something that uses up consumables, perhaps a game that takes more than one session to complete (or a hefty full day adventure with meal breaks), something that either ends with the characters (that are still standing) successful, or broken and battered, dead or wishing they were, frail and shallow husks of their former selves, a warning to others or legends whispered of when the next posse rolls into town looking for fame, fortune, and glory.
Thanks Forar. I will say my sole complaint with SoB is its difficulty curve, or lack thereof. Even with loads of better enemies added in (which helped a lot), I feel like we only ever "lose" to particularly swingy runs of bad luck. Once we leveled a couple times and saw a couple particularly good loot drops, it felt like we forever stayed ahead of enemy progression.
IE... the same ultimate complaint of OG Warhammer Quest, so at least we're in good company. :-p
I do wish there was an end-goal to playing though, even as an option. I'd love to feel like there was a "final boss" to be preparing for, etc.
Is this game very easy to pick up? My friends and family are very into Lovecraft, but they find the FFG games way too involved to get into. Are there a lot of cards and chits and counters, or is it something that can be played after a brief set up and a how-to-play video? How does it compare to something like Descent (1st Ed.) or Space Hulk?
Thank you for that video! It looks a lot like Descent, except that I wouldn't have to play as the overlord. The combat looks a little more complicated, though. I'll show my wife the video and see if she would be interested.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: Thank you for that video! It looks a lot like Descent, except that I wouldn't have to play as the overlord. The combat looks a little more complicated, though. I'll show my wife the video and see if she would be interested.
Its REALLY not complicated. Once you learn the flow of things its actually shockingly simple, and clean. The only rules we had to over-think the first few games were enemy targeting/movement, but once we had it down... smooooooth gameplay.
1. Its a great game out of a core box alone, but made significantly better with the second core, and Frontier Town, plus every other add-on. At the very least the Frontier Town is almost mandatory as it adds soooooo much diversity to that part of the game.
2. The core game boxes are pretty easy to "game". Frontier Town and many expansions add harder, and ranged enemies which mostly fix this, but the core game can easily be duped by players who want to block a choke point so half the monsters don't get to go.
In essence... enjoy the core game, but realize it only gets better and better with additions.
My group are not interested in games that are hard. Speed, simplicity and narrative fun are what they want. Space Hulk and the Buffy board game were the two most popular non-Monopoly board games we've played in the last two decades, with Descent being one we've enjoyed but never actually finished many times. I've tried to start games of Arkham Horror, Starcraft, Mansions of Madness, KoW, and many others, and not got past the "I'll just see what's on TV while you read the rule book and set up the board" phase.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I'll stick to the core box and buying the occasional cool monster box unless this game explodes in our house.
FFP have now added on the ability to turn the incomplete Kickstarter expansions into proper retail expansions (the only option if you actually want to use the content properly) but they have managed to do it in a way that seems to have alienated a lot of people.
Back in the first pledge manager a couple of years back they said that the retail expansions would have extras and you could add them to your pledge to turn your incomplete expansions into full expansions. This cost $45.
Since then they have decided that they actually want to add more to the retail expansions and the extras you need to add to make your Minecart KS pledge into retail expansions has now doubled to $90 in total. However, they are offering the $90 of items at a bundle price of $50. However, if you have already part purchased in the first Kickstarter and you buy the bundle then you still need to pay the full $50 and you wont get duplicate models of those you already purchased (more or less voiding the original purchase but still charging for it). The other option is to buy the items missing from original pledge manager individually for $45.
So, this makes a situation where those who purchased the items in the original pledge manager paying $90 and those who picked up the items in the second pledge manager paying $50 for the same items. So basically a $40 fee for part paying 2 years early.
They also didn't include the multiple Raptors in the deal, so those who purchased as part of Kickstarter / Minecart only receive 1 where as the encounter actually requires 3 (and the retail set includes 3, so we need to buy an entire new retail set to get the required number and cards so will end up with a spare one, making the $15 Kickstarter addon worthless).
I am sure FFP could have dealt with this a lot better. Even if just offering a discount to those who previously purchased the items (or, if it is now only costing $5 more then let them have the items for the $45 they already paid).
There are encounters for 1 or 3 Raptors, I'm just going to not use the 3-Raptor one.
However, the "Complete my Minecart" deal is horse gak. They need to fix it. NOW.
I pledged for Minecart to get "everything".
Then they put unreached SG's as add-ons in the PM, so I added more in the PM in order to get "everything".
Then they released retail product that wasn't part of the KS, so I bought them to get "everything".
Now I'm being asked to give them an additional $45 on top of the $45 I put in the PM in order to get "everything" and those who didn't put their money in 2 years ago get a 50% price reduction on the same stuff, essentially a "reverse EB".
How much more money am I going to have to sink into this to get "everything"?
Yeah, it's a pretty lousy way to go about sorting this out.
It's going to cost them time and money any ways to break up those retail sets, so they really should be doing everything they can to convince people to complete their stuff, not just saying 'The expansions are kinda crap without this new stuff, so pay up'.
I'm in no hurry, so I'm going to wait and see what happens.
I also just now noticed a $65 outstanding balance in the PM for SHIPPING. Seriously, what the feth. Shipping was free in this KS. The only time they asked for shipping payments was if you wanted wave 1.5, which I didn't.
If I'm now going to have to pay YET MORE MONEY for something that was initially advertised as free, I'm going to freak the feth out.
I replied to you in the Kickstarter but I am hoping that it is just a bug. They haven't announced removal of the free portage at least and I hope they haven't. I am already concerned about EU postage as we backed on the basis that it would be shipped from within EU to avoid a big import tax bill but looks like that may no longer be the case as they are posting these items out in waves directly from the US warehouse.
How can it be a bug? Pledgemanager is one of the simplest websites I've ever seen. Unless EVERYONE has had a shipping charge floating around on their balance sheets for years and nobody had noticed yet (I see mine is $40), it was added.
I'm betting they'll generously let people fill in the gaps in their pledge AND cover shipping for only $100. I'm also betting there will be no less than 10 people in the comments who will fall all over themselves thanking FFP for their generosity.
I can easily see it being a bug in a literal or figurative sense. Someone forgot to tick a box somewhere, or untick something, and the system thinks that a shipping charge is due when there shouldn't be. This could be tied to something that was entered years ago, we all filled this out in 2014 after all, who knows what might've been overlooked, or applied mistakenly when they went back to 'unlock' parts of it.
Ragging on it as some people have before FFP have even begun to respond to that or the upgrade cost discrepancy isn't helping anything, but man, let's just stoke the fires some more.
And just stop. Don't even bother with the "you're the cheerleaderist cheerleader that ever cheered". I absolutely think there is a mistake here, either as an oversight or screw up, as opposed to actual malice or raw greed. I remain hopeful that they will address the issue in the next few days, even if it isn't a 100% perfect fix. But people in the comments and a few other places are acting like this is carved in stone, done while cackling and twirling imaginary mustaches.
"Sorry, we fethed up, look, we will happily apply previous purchases of Col Scafford, the Mutants, Ghosts, and Auto Turrets as credit towards Outlaw and Mine Cart upgrades" is about all it would take to make this an absolute non-issue. But people are in a giant rush to tell us how ANGRY they are, and how ANGRY we should all be over this SLAP IN THE FACE.
It's a problem, but it's solvable, and yet some are acting like FFP just murdered their parents before them and are about to spend 20 years (worth of posts) training to become Angry Kickstarter Batman.
Forar wrote: "Sorry, we fethed up, look, we will happily apply previous purchases of Col Scafford, the Mutants, Ghosts, and Auto Turrets as credit towards Outlaw and Mine Cart upgrades" is about all it would take to make this an absolute non-issue.
And how long are we going to have to wait for that? Until next month's update?
FFP were around after they posted the update as they answered someone's question in the update comments. As soon as this bs surfaced, they haven't made a peep.
I agree that's all it would take to remedy things, but dropping that update and then fething off when they feel the heat is doing them no favors. Get a handle on it NOW and don't give the pot a chance to boil over.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Alpharius wrote: For whatever reason, this whole thing didn't really bother me that much.
For the sake of convenience (and 'Completionism'), I'm OK with paying the $50 to 'Get it All'...
I would be too, if I hadn't already given them $45 2 years ago and therefore end up paying $40 more than someone who buys in now.
"Hey, you supported us at the earliest opportunity, you get to pay twice as much as someone who didn't!".
And just stop. Don't even bother with the "you're the cheerleaderist cheerleader that ever cheered".
followed by
Forar wrote: It's a problem, but it's solvable, and yet some are acting like FFP just murdered their parents before them and are about to spend 20 years (worth of posts) training to become Angry Kickstarter Batman.
Anyone else not received the email for the pledge manager? Without it the address is locked so I can't update to my new house (or see the postage charges).
Apologies, I was wrong about mine set receiving free postage, I paid $40 when I confirmed the pledge manager in 2014. It appears that the postage charge may be the difference between 2014 and 2017 postage charges. If US backers have been hit for $40 I am really not looking forward to what overseas backers will be charged.
Incidentally, if anyone absolutely wants to dump their 2nd-wave of Minecart, PLEASE let me know. I'd be all for getting this stuff off your hands, at a fair price, just so I don't have to wait for retail releases.
Just a quick note, I am now not being charged the $40 postage fee when I go the checkout with the $50 pledge so looks like that has now been changed (it lists free complimentary shipping instead). However, some other people are still being charged.
Those artifact decks are not offered in the bundle so you are good.
The $50 pledge isn't too bad for you as you only spent $15 rather than $45. It's still a shame that you are paying the extra $15 compared to those who didn't add the extras in the original pledge manager.
Hopefully they remove the shipping charge completely.
Aeneades wrote: Just a quick note, I am now not being charged the $40 postage fee when I go the checkout with the $50 pledge so looks like that has now been changed (it lists free complimentary shipping instead). However, some other people are still being charged.
My problem is a shipping fee mysteriously appearing in the pledge manager.
Their online store doesn't charge me shipping, but I'm not "completing my minecart" until they pull their head out their arse and fix this rediculous "offer".
I can't even get into the pledge manager to see what is going on there, they never re-opened mine so it is stuck with a delivery address I moved from in 2014.
I am not completing the mine cart either as I am hopeful they get this deal mess sorted, I just wanted to see if the FFP store was charging me like it was some people.
How much is the pledge manager trying to charge for shipping?
FAQ update has been posted. Can't copy from my phone but main highlights are that -
A) The extra pledge manager shipping is a bug. You won't have to pay it.
B) They are not making any changes or giving credit to those who purchased some of the items previously. If you feel "slighted" you should email them and they will review the situation.
Aeneades wrote: FAQ update has been posted. Can't copy from my phone but main highlights are that -
A) The extra pledge manager shipping is a bug. You won't have to pay it.
B) They are not making any changes or giving credit to those who purchased some of the items previously. If you feel "slighted" you should email them and they will review the situation.
Yeah, not the best of responses, but the first addresses an obvious bug, and the second is at least a half-measure.
While I know that there has been a lot of screaming about the double-dipping, we're also not privy to how many people are actually affected. One thing I've learnt is that assuming a majority of commentators is representative of the majority of backers, is a flawed premise. While I don't think it's been handled well, it's also quite probable that it'll only affect a small portion of backers in a significantly negative way. Those being the loudest.
Don't get me wrong, I think this was bungled, and I think there have been some other significant missteps along the way. But I also don't think FFP are out to actively screw people. I think they got in over their heads, and are trying to finish as best they can, without ending up significantly in the hole (as opposed to a certain other game I can think of). It doesn't help the hysteria that some backers have unrealistic expectations, or significantly misinterpret things, and this being the internet, go from miffed to OUTRAGE! in the blink of an eye. But for me, the entertainment of the game itself will allow for some tolerance, and it's not like we can't see the light at the end of the tunnel (again, unlike a certain other game), even if the timeframe is still a bit shaky.
I don't think FFP are trying to milk people, they thought they were offering a bargain with the new topup system (which will also make packing much easier for them) and just didn't think about how those who already paid more will feel. I think they could have addressed it better in this update.
Some of the KS comments are pretty extreme and i have put it down to mostly inexperience at running a Kickstarter campaign (and this campaign took place just after Zombicide season 2 which hadn't yet been delivered so this was one of the biggest early kickstarters).
I don't expect anywhere near as many issues with their second Kickstarter.
However they just made an update that doesn't really fix the larger issue at hand, just invites a metric feth ton of email for them to go through.
They also seem to have missed the point. Their view is they already gave us a great deal with the Minecart pledge. That isn't in question. The issue people have is that their most eager supporters who gave them $45 in the pledge manager for the Turrets, Mutants and Tribals are now going to end up paying $40 more than people who have given them no money to work with these past 2 years, if we want to "complete our minecart".
That is the problem, and it seems to have gone right over their heads.
I agree that they missed what the main issue actually is (although a few vocal people are not happy about paying anything to complete the expansions), and I think the tone of the update has done more harm then good.
I have no problem paying for the additional content, I just want the same deal as everyone else, not be charged more because I decided to support them at the earliest opportunity.
And just stop. Don't even bother with the "you're the cheerleaderist cheerleader that ever cheered".
followed by
Forar wrote: It's a problem, but it's solvable, and yet some are acting like FFP just murdered their parents before them and are about to spend 20 years (worth of posts) training to become Angry Kickstarter Batman.
Is impressively hypocritical.
Care to explain how?
One is recognizing my own bias (or the massive avalanche of bias I'm accused of on the KS Comments and BGG now and then...)
The other is recognizing that I think some people on the KS Comments are being utter gakheads about the matter.
C'mon Meri, how about more than a pithy one liner? Use your words and express yourself.
Nostromodamus wrote: However they just made an update that doesn't really fix the larger issue at hand, just invites a metric feth ton of email for them to go through.
Assuming that there wasn't a simple 'one-size-fits-all' answer to this, a metric fethton of email was always the likely outcome.
Though as Morgan noted, we have no idea how many people this affects. Given the number of Mine Cart backers who received $25-50+ in credit, I'm guessing a good number of the higher tiers probably spent some or all of their credit on those 'missing' upgrade figures, so I'm sure it's not a small number, but I doubt it's a majority either.
Regardless, I'm going to mail them and see what can be worked out. Y'know, actually find out what compromise might or might not exist, rather than just being so angry and cynical in the comments that some people on Kickstarter seem to delight in.
I sent a nice friendly e-mail to FFP regarding the situation. I really like the game (spent $190 in addons in original pledge manager, purchased Shogun level of the new KS and purchased web store exclusive items with expensive UK postage and import tax) but I don't like how they have handled this situation or that they have effectively down valued the $45 I gave them two years ago to $5 value today.
Aeneades wrote: I sent a nice friendly e-mail to FFP regarding the situation. I really like the game (spent $190 in addons in original pledge manager, purchased Shogun level of the new KS and purchased web store exclusive items with expensive UK postage and import tax) but I don't like how they have handled this situation or that they have effectively down valued the $45 I gave them two years ago to $5 value today.
While I agree that this might have ended up being a whole lot of unnecessary frustration, this was recently posted on the KS Comments;
Klutz wrote:I just wanted to report that I got a reply to the "PLEDGE REVIEW AND ADJUSTMENT" email I sent. I sent the email at noon today on received a response at 8:20pm.
Since I had spent $10 on the Scafford Boss, they sent me a $5 PayPal invoice for the "Complete my Outlaw Pledge" option (saving me $10 off the normal $15 price).
They took the long and rocky way around the mountain, but in the end they made it right.
I hope this is applied evenly to everyone who desires to top off their pledge. I am not overlooking that they could've made this a lot easier on everyone involved, and for whatever reason chose not to (at least initially).
Of course, I'm sure someone will come forward and declare that the only reason FFP are willing to work with us is because of the racket they made on the comments, and that their wailing and gnashing of teeth were instrumental to getting this done.
I doubt it to be the case, but I don't expect to convince them otherwise. I also hope none of them backed the second SoB Kickstarter, because I'd hate for them to have wasted (WASTED!) their money and risked being SLAPPED IN THE FACE again by a company that some of them seem to think so little of.
With this little benefit of the doubt being given, you'd think we were talking about Palladium Books.
I have also received a response email, and long story short, I was able to top off my 2 Mine Carts and 1 Outlaw for $15 (having previously paid for 2 Ghosts, 2 Mutants, 2 Auto Turrets, and 1 Col Scafford = $100 already spent, vs the $115 it cost to upgrade all 3 at this time), but I'm assuming that would be dismissed as FFP simply taking care of one of their cheerleaders, so I waited until someone else came forward before I said anything.
Hopefully this can get all sorted out and ends up being another bump on the road.
I mean, until FFP does the next thing that is THE WORST THING EVER and faces are slapped and whatever.
Nostromodamus wrote: I have no problem paying for the additional content, I just want the same deal as everyone else, not be charged more because I decided to support them at the earliest opportunity.
This. It's pretty simple. Unfortunately I can't even find what the extras I ordered were. I found a $21 invoice for extras, but cannot find what they actually are. I guess I'll email them.
Of course, I'm sure someone will come forward and declare that the only reason FFP are willing to work with us is because of the racket they made on the comments, and that their wailing and gnashing of teeth were instrumental to getting this done.
I doubt it to be the case, but I don't expect to convince them otherwise. I also hope none of them backed the second SoB Kickstarter, because I'd hate for them to have wasted (WASTED!) their money and risked being SLAPPED IN THE FACE again by a company that some of them seem to think so little of.
Clearly this is the case. I haven't followed the KS comments and have had my email dark for over a week, so haven't even caught up on this stuff until now really. Their update makes it clear that they had made a decision on charging a flat $50 (probably just to make the admin much easier) and thought they could just tell people who were unhappy to suck it up. The fact that they're "Reviewing" this to such an extent shows that having a huge backlash had an effect. I doubt it was a sudden change of heart that was completely unrelated to the sheer PR-stupidity of the choice or their comments catching fire as you seem to think.
I mean, until FFP does the next thing that is THE WORST THING EVER and faces are slapped and whatever.
You're really overdoing the hyperbole. Maybe it's your response to people being d-heads in the KS comments, but we're a tad more reserved here. Fact is simply that as I said before, your overly-aggressive defence of every stupid move that the Frogs make is doing wonders to undermine your own credibility. You're veering into crazyman territory. It reminds me of videogame fanbois to be quite honest. Those guys who love Sony or Microsoft (formerly Nintendo and Sega) that anything their chosen company does is brilliant and won't hear a word said against them by dirty unbelievers. So please. Calm the feth down and just post rationally here. It's not making you any friends. As I also said before, I like you mate - but your posts in SoB threads make me shake my head.
It's tongue in cheek mockery aimed more at the hyperbole on BGG and Kickstarter, yes.
If I was aiming it at someone directly, I'd quote them and aim it at them directly.
People can express disappointment without making a comment section a complete clusterfeth, and some of those same voices have been quick to leap on any reason at all to complain and declare FFP worse than Satan. I'm sure Becki and Cartigan and a few others will be quick to point out how something else is Just The Worst soon enough.
That said, you are clearly reading more into this than is intended. To 'explain the joke', the hyperbole here is shared in mockery and *because I know this place to be saner*. Where have I leapt at anyone other than Meri, whom I have a... special relationship with over a good 3 years of shared misery in the Robotech Tactics threads.
I mean, for feths sake, I explained I wasn't happy with this outcome, I emailed them asking about it, they resolved it. That's... the system working as intended, but this comparison to video game fanboys makes it sound like I was cheering for a chance to throw money away over this gak.
Man, for all you're accusing me of here, I think I'm not the only one reading things into comments that aren't actually there.
This was a controversy, and it was one the Frogs created, and people *lost their fething minds*, and I mocked them for it, and lo it was resolved like 2 days later.
I'm catching up with all this now. As an Outlaw backer, yeah, I'm annoyed. I guess I'm eating the $10 I'm out for buying Colonel Scafford last December (you know, when THEY TOLD US TO), but I'm more annoyed by the Derelict Ship. I paid $35 in the pledge manager. Now if I want to complete it (my one and only opportunity), it's another $15 + $18 = $33. $68 total for an expansion that will probably be, what, $50 MSRP? $30 something online? That....is not a good deal.
ubik2000 wrote: I'm catching up with all this now. As an Outlaw backer, yeah, I'm annoyed. I guess I'm eating the $10 I'm out for buying Colonel Scafford last December (you know, when THEY TOLD US TO), but I'm more annoyed by the Derelict Ship. I page $35 in the pledge manager. Now if I want to complete it (my one and only opportunity), it's another $15 + $18 = $33. $68 total for an expansion that will probably be, what, $50 MSRP? $30 something online? That....is not a good deal.
If you contact them via Email, as instructed, you should be able to get the $10 paid for taken off the Outlaw Upgrade. As for the Derelict Ship, it'll probably be a $80 MSRP (similar to Trederra). Not a great deal, but not a complete ripoff either. And similar in pricing comparison to other upgrades that were advertised.
If you're REALLY annoyed, when you EMail FFP for your Outlaw discount, maybe you can organise to change it for something else, and get Derelict at retail later? During the initial Pledge Manager, I ordered two Doors packages, because I wanted 4 Gates (it was originally 6/2). When they changed it to 4/4, I asked them to change one Doors to Darkness (the new name) to something else, specifically blank card packs of a similar value. They had no problem doing that.
FFP have made several significant missteps, but I've found that they're fairly reasonable when you explain things calmly. I've not found them the evil bastards they're often accused of being.
Reports are going out that Outlaws are beginning to ship, possibly as much as a week ago, but progress is being made.
No word on Mine Carts (nor was one expected, but mentioned for the sake of thoroughness), but we knew those would likely be months out yet anyway. Considering that Outlaws (at least by initial tier) made up around 2/3 of the backers, that'll probably keep them busy a while anyway.
Forar wrote: It's tongue in cheek mockery aimed more at the hyperbole on BGG and Kickstarter, yes.
If I was aiming it at someone directly, I'd quote them and aim it at them directly.
People can express disappointment without making a comment section a complete clusterfeth, and some of those same voices have been quick to leap on any reason at all to complain and declare FFP worse than Satan. I'm sure Becki and Cartigan and a few others will be quick to point out how something else is Just The Worst soon enough.
That said, you are clearly reading more into this than is intended. To 'explain the joke', the hyperbole here is shared in mockery and *because I know this place to be saner*. Where have I leapt at anyone other than Meri, whom I have a... special relationship with over a good 3 years of shared misery in the Robotech Tactics threads.
I mean, for feths sake, I explained I wasn't happy with this outcome, I emailed them asking about it, they resolved it. That's... the system working as intended, but this comparison to video game fanboys makes it sound like I was cheering for a chance to throw money away over this gak.
Man, for all you're accusing me of here, I think I'm not the only one reading things into comments that aren't actually there.
I don't follow Kickstarter comments anymore, and have not for several years. Any Kickstarter comments. I find N&R threads here to be filled with too many stupid and unreasonable people, and KS comments are an order of magnitude worse. With this as the context, reading your posts here appeared to be... shall we say.. over the top in your enthusiastic defence.
This was a controversy, and it was one the Frogs created, and people *lost their fething minds*, and I mocked them for it, and lo it was resolved like 2 days later.
What more do you want?
I think it's fair to say that people losing their fething minds was what caused FFG to backpedal on charging us all an extra wad of cash. Their tone and choice of words in that update was pure arrogant dickishness, and they deserved the backlash. Turned out after a polite & pleasant email exchange that the stuff I bought as extras was also in the $50 pile as well, and now I have a much smaller PayPal invoice instead. What do I want from them? A bit of extra thought and more of an attempt to follow Wheaton's Law would do.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Alpharius wrote: A friend of mine is reporting his Wave 2 "Outlaw" package is on the way - 11 lbs., shipping via UPS.
I'm a "Minecart" backer, so I'll be waiting for...a while longer.
We'll be waiting months longer. Despite "we only just missed the boat" platitudes, I won't expect my stuff until about September-October now, since that's how these things usually work.
We have been receiving more and more of the expansion material arriving into our warehouse and it is looking great! Unfortunately, as often happens with manufacturing, we have hit some delays for a few of the products. We can only send out a Wave 2 package, once all of the contents needed are in the warehouse for packing. The good news is that we currently have all of the parts for Hombre, Prospector, Outlaw, and Deluxe Outlaw Level Pledges and have already begun assembling these packages.
Minecart Pledges (and some Outlaws that added expansions) won't be able to start shipping until we have all of the content in the warehouse. The manufacturing delays on some expansion materials have hit the Chinese New Year break in China, which is nearly a month long, starting late January and well into February. All companies are trying to get manufacturing done before Chinese New Year break, so we just could not get enough time in the factory's manufacturing schedule. We do not yet know how long it will take for them to complete manufacturing after they return from the break, but we will keep you updated as we find out more info. In the meantime, we have our hands full processing, packing, and shipping out all of the other pledges.
Without context, it's impossible to say. Optimist that I am, I'm quietly hoping for a Q2 delivery of Mine Carts. I wouldn't rule out Q3 entirely, but without them saying just how much is missing, who knows? If it's a ship container worth of stuff, yeah that'd be a mess. If it's just an expansion or two that would be feasible to air freight over without being oppressively expensive, maybe it won't end up as big a deal.
I highly doubt it's the latter, but the reality is probably somewhere between the extremes, and if they're fighting for a slot right after things get fired back up again (post holiday, maintenance, whatever), they (and we) might be entirely at the whims of said factory.
I'm assuming Azazelx is adding the Australia tax on to the delay. I'm hoping it's not that long, and that if Australian orders are being sent the long way, that they're sent first. Because even if FFP start shipping March, if it takes them until June to finish, and Australia are both sent last, and by slow boat, then September/October definitely isn't out of the question.
Regarding Wave 1, it left the FFP warehouse before November 27th 2014, but didn't clear customs until after February 13th 2015. That's a little over 10 weeks, then another two weeks for the last individual shipment to be sent out and received.
Hopefully, it'll be handled differently this time, but I have slightly more optimism regarding FFP than Azazelx does. But not that much optimism. The desire to get the first packages out into the wild (ie, to Americans), will probably trump the concept of not screwing over Australian backers again by spending the first few days preparing those for early departure. Because it's almost a certainty FFP will want to save money by ocean-shipping again.
Alpharius wrote: Isn't CNY 'only' a week off for most people in China?
I know the 'official' time period for it is just over 3 weeks, I think, but I also don't think everyone gets a month off for it.
It doesn't seem as if CNY is causing this huge delay - production of the key components must have already been delayed..
It depends on the location of the factory, and the kind of product.
For the first, if a factory is a significant distance from residential, it tends to increase the downtime, as they need to factor in travel time. When you otherwise live at the factory, and need to travel 3-5 days to get home (remembering that civilian transport options in most parts of China isn't great), giving someone a week off, doesn't do anything.
For the second, given that most factories run 24/7 for most of the year, this downtime is also used for significant overhauls and other major maintenance that taking a machine offline during the year isn't easily done for. So factories like plastics and steel producers, I can easily see spending that amount of time, so that you don't have any downtime during regular production.
Not saying that's always the case, but I can see that being a reasonable timeframe.
EDIT : There's also one additional factor. When a company comes back from break, there's also a realistic possibility that they've got rush jobs from people willing to pay a premium. and that can have an impact on completion times for jobs that have already been timeslotted and paid for. Not all manufacturers are ethical about that kind of thing, either. And instead of admitting that, they'd just add that to the "closedown time".
Wave 2 shipping has been underway for somewhere around a month, hopefully plenty of people are receiving their stuff in the weeks to come, and fingers crossed that the outstanding minecart stuff lands in their laps (and thus, ours) soon!
Correct. If your address hasn't changed, there's nothing to worry about.
Here's what they wrote in Update 70;
Address Update before shipping Wave 2
We have worked with the fine folks at Pledge Manager to get updated address info from all backers. You should soon receive an email from Pledge Manager with a link to check your Shipping Address and update it, if it has changed. Please take a moment to do this right away. We will be locking this down on January 7th.
Also, please note that you should update your address in the Pledge Manager even if you previously emailed Flying Frog with an address change. We really need to run the shipping addresses through the Pledge Manager for accuracy. While you're in the Pledge Manager, take a minute to review what is included in your order so you know what Add-Ons you may want to get in the Web Store to complete changed expansions - see more info below.
For those who didn't notice (or care), there was a bug/glitch/whatever with the PM site that was causing unintended shipping fees (this was, of course, taken to be yet another Slap In The Face by some on the KS Comments) but far as I know that should be rectified now.
Has FFP stated when the additional classes(Drifter, Orphan etc.) will be available at retail? I've played most of the classes now and would like some new variance in this regard.
Also, has FFP ever mentioned about adding additional rules for levels 9+? I've noticed the Preacher has abilities on his cards that increase their effectiveness at level 9+.
We've been focusing on Outlaw Pledges so far because there are still a few pieces for MC that have yet to arrive. We should get every part into the warehouse in the next month or so and can start processing MC Wave 2s.
It's been a while since our last update, and we've been hard at work on processing and shipping of Wave 2. Here is a status update...
Shipping of Wave 2 So Far
As you know, we hit some delays in manufacturing and shipping which pushed us into Chinese New Year, losing most of February while the factories in China are shut down, and ultimately slowing things down a bit. The good news is that we already had collected all of the materials for Outlaw Wave 2 packages and have been processing and shipping them to US and ROW Backers since the end of December (EU, CA, and AU Outlaws will ship together with Minecarts from within those regions).
As more components have arrived in the warehouse, we have been able to send out Outlaws that have extra add-ons as well. One thing that is a limiting factor is collecting finalized address information from Backers and making sure everyone has the opportunity to upgrade with the 'Complete My Pledge' package on the FFP Web Store, or choose "Kickstarter No Add-Ons" by emailing admin@flyingfrog.net. More on this below.
Remaining Components Arriving from China
We just received the final shipment from the miniature factory in China of all remaining Plastic figures for the Kickstarter! This was a big one and it's very exciting to have the final plastic production models in hand! The last container of printed material (which includes the Blasted Wastes and Mission Packs) will be arriving later this month as well!
Planned Order for Shipping
Once the final printed materials arrive in our warehouse and we get them unpacked and sorted, we will begin final processing and packing for Minecart Wave 2s to go out. There are a lot of these to ship (around 2,500 or so), and we will be sending them out in batches by region to our distribution partners in AU, CA, and the EU. Once the distribution centers receive these batch shipments, they will be sent on to individual backers from within those regions.
The order of shipping will be as follows:
1) AU Minecart and Outlaw Batch Shipment - all AU Wave 2s will be processed and shipped to our Australian distribution partner who will send them on to individual backers from within Australia.
2) CA Minecart and Outlaw Batch Shipment - all Canada Wave 2s will be processed and shipped to a Canadian hub that will send them on to individual backers from within Canada.
3) EU Minecart and Outlaw Batch Shipments - all EU Wave 2s will be processed and shipped to our European and UK distribution partners who will send them on to individual backers from within the EU.
* US and ROW Minecarts and Outlaws will continue to be sent out throughout the scheduled batch processing and shipping to the regions listed above.
Note that we have reversed the order of shipping for Wave 2, so that Australia will be packed and sent out first, Canada after that, and lastly the EU (as the EU was the first to have Wave 1 sent out, and Australia was last for Wave 1). US and Rest Of World packages will be ongoing throughout this process, as they are all sent individually to backers, from our warehouse in Seattle.
Importance of Updating Address Info and Making Decision to ‘Complete My Pledge’ or Not
We have been working diligently to collect updated address info and make sure that every backer has the opportunity to upgrade with the 'Complete My Pledge' option, if desired. (Note - All printed materials are still fully usable as is, without the ‘Complete My Pledge’ Upgrade, you just won’t get the full retail contents and miniatures for some items, as detailed in previous Updates).
>>>>>> If you have not yet done so, please take a moment to either: <<<<<<
Purchase the Complete My Pledge Outlaw or Complete My Pledge Minecart (or individual items) from the Flying Frog Web Store and be sure to list your current address and phone number for shipping.
Email admin@flyingfrog.net with the subject *Kickstarter No Add-Ons* and tell us your current address and phone number in the email.
We can’t ship out your package until we have this information from you.
If you have questions about the Complete My Pledge option, please see the previous KS Update with an FAQ.
Deadlines for Responding
Because shipping to AU, CA, and EU is being done as batch shipments, we will need to have Deadlines in place for updating your Address information and making the final decision to purchase the 'Complete My Pledge' Upgrade or opt out with the "Kickstarter No Add-Ons" option.
If you have already done one of these two options, no further action is required.
Australian Response Deadline - April 30th, 2017
Any Australian Backers that have not done the 'Complete My Pledge' or emailed to say "Kickstarter No Add-Ons" before the deadline, we will send out your package to the address we have on file for you, with the "Kickstarter No Add-Ons" option.
If you do not update your address information on or before the deadline, and your package gets returned due to inability to deliver, you will be responsible for shipping charges for it to be sent again.
If you do not participate in the ‘Complete My Pledge’ Upgrade offer on or before the deadline for your Region, the Complete My Pledge package offer will no longer be available to you. You will still be able to purchase the individual extra components on the Official Flying Frog Web store, but you will be responsible for shipping charges for those items, as they will not be included in your Wave 2 shipment and will not be sent from within your Region.
We are very excited to have so many Wave 2 packages out the door already, and to get the final components in and processed so that the Mine Cart Wave 2s can start shipping out!
This Kickstarter has been a wild ride for all of us and we are excited to see so many backers around the world enjoying the game and eagerly anticipating the insane amount of material coming in Wave 2! We know it has been a long wait, but the light at the end of the tunnel is getting ever brighter and it looks like that light is a swirling gateway to another world of unspeakable horrors and endless adventures for your Heroes in the world of Shadows of Brimstone!
... but seriously, congratulations! It's been a damned long journey, but I'm glad more and more people are receiving theirs (or at least have hope of doing so in the near future).
The Canadian date to verify addresses passed over 5 weeks ago, still no sign up here either.
I knew Wave 2 would be a long fulfillment period, based on the raw variety of potential boxes to build (as opposed to the very minimal variation in wave 1 and even 1.5), but even I'm a bit surprised that we're over 2 quarters into this (though to be fair, they haven't had access to everything for nearly that long, I'm just noting from when the first Outlaws started going out).
I had been fairly certain I'd have my kit in hand before Gencon at least (while there'd be nothing stopping staff from sending things out still, I'm guessing it'll slow things down to have so much of the team (especially those who can give the thumbs up or down to things) out of the office), and honestly with 4 weeks to go I'm not nearly as certain.
Got my stuff yesterday. Haven't opened it yet; got home and looked at it and thought the box looked small, then I went to go pick it up. Dense, definitely dense.
Looks like Canadian shipments are going out. A bunch of people have been saying as much for the last day, and both a friend and I have gotten ours as of this afternoon.
Same here and I've become pretty disgusted with Flying Frog.
Shadows of Brimstone is a fantastic game but ...
the lack of updates or regular comments, the random changes of miniature material, the crappy core set minis, the lack of retail packaging, the laughably slow final delivery and their general poor attitude to their customers have soured me.
So much so I couldn't bother to support their Forbidden Fortress campaign. Maybe I'll buy that at retail. Maybe not.
Still waiting on Brimstone ...
The 'random changes of miniature material' were based on a vocal number of backers and consumers *losing their minds* over the lack of detail on the core box stuff. They worked with the factory to improve detail and reduce the parts count (oh god, am I in the Robotech thread again?), but for the heroes they found that resin was the way to go instead of trying to force a square peg into a round hole (... phrasing).
Which of course some people hate for different reasons, but it's worth at least noting that it wasn't 'random', it was to try to meet the requests of consumers for better detail in the heroes, and managing to piss off yet another group of people at the same time.
Sort of a 'damned if you do, damned if you don't' situation there, at least if making the heroes in the standard material AND getting the detail people were clamoring for wasn't an option (or not a financially viable one).
Minis have gotten a ton better. Plastic is better. Resin heros look great (as a wargamer, I appreciate resin). The minis paint up well, and the game is a blast.
Yes this kickstarter took forever to get, but it is probably the best values I've ever gotten in a kickstarter regarding number of minis, cards, expansions, etc vs $ spent (mine cart backer). Not to mention some very monstrous sized minis.
This game is a keeper, along with zombicide, black plague, massive darkness, wrath of kings, dcumg, mumg, bmg, all gw games, wwx, infinity, and some card games. Other games are good but don't have a permanent spot on my shelves.
Well, let's not forget the initial "random" change FFP made in their decision to make buildable plastic miniatures rather than the plastic game pieces that they had always made prior.
I've played all of their other games, I don't think these figures would be nearly as nice in the bendy/rubbery material that some of them are made out of, especially larger pieces.
I was a late backer, and having seen the size and complexity of what they had on display I might have just taken for granted that 'Some Assembly Would Be Required', but they did say something fairly early on after the campaign ended about it (in an update or a comment or something), but the real meat of things is that far as I know, they've been openly willing to work with people on refunds. If the change in material/approach was a dealbreaker from the start, 'getting out' was as simple as getting a refund or finding another person to buy the pledge off the disgruntled individual.
We're nearly at 4 years post campaign, anyone put out by that change is lost in the past (not saying you are, Myrthe, simply commenting on the 'issue' raised). By the time the cores landed in people's laps, either they were cool with it (or begrudgingly accepted it) or they got out. That one has been otherwise settled for years now.
Oh, I was just including it for context completion. I agree, it's in the past and I was one that begrudgingly accepted the change.
That seems to be my overall stance for this whole process ... begrudging acceptance. All I can do but sit and continue waiting for it to arrive (yep, STILL waiting). I love the game and that offsets the frustrations.
That being said, I'll likely only buy FFP stuff at retail in the future.
Forar wrote: Sort of a 'damned if you do, damned if you don't' situation there, at least if making the heroes in the standard material AND getting the detail people were clamoring for wasn't an option (or not a financially viable one).
What I read was that their plastics manufacturer lied to them, saying that they had experience in the HIPS (or whatever) plastic, when they did not. As a result, the miniatures had softer details *and* were more difficult to assemble.
I've seen other KS where the production plastic did not match the sample plastics (eg. Myth Recon and Project ELITE), but that doesn't mean I don't hold a KS creator responsible when their miniatures turn out as melted pieces of sh*t. FFP's Last Night on Earth zombie miniatures were known to be tacky when primed, the campaign only showed sketches and renders, and the number of miniatures wasn't as much as Reaper and CMON, so I passed on it.
I managed to acquire a partially assembled copy through a trade but haven't played it yet. These are some of the worst miniatures I've had the displeasure of assembling and painting.
As I've said, the later products improved on both the detail and parts count considerably. The core boxes are what they are, and even a low skill modeler/painter like myself admits they're not great. If they're the worst you've ever worked with, that seems pretty lucky. I'm fairly new to minis gaming and I've faced worse in terms of assembly (hello, Robotech Tactics, 22'ish pieces for a 1.25" model), though the detail isn't something I'll clamor to defend.
The heroes aren't great, the monsters are acceptable, but that's subjective.
I've been clipping and gluing at wave 2, and the allies were 1-4 pieces, the Tribal Ghost Warriors (I think) were 1 piece each for all 6 models. They heard the complaints about detail and assembly and have improved, but the core boxes are done, and unless they punch out enough sprues that it's time to replace them, I don't think there's going to be much changed on that front for quite some time.
That's kinda how this all boils down.
"The cores are gak!"
"Yeah, but they improved later stuff."
"But the cores are gak!"
"... I know."
(and I don't really think they're truly gak but as I said, recognizing where subjective opinion comes into play)
Forar wrote: Sort of a 'damned if you do, damned if you don't' situation there, at least if making the heroes in the standard material AND getting the detail people were clamoring for wasn't an option (or not a financially viable one).
What I read was that their plastics manufacturer lied to them, saying that they had experience in the HIPS (or whatever) plastic, when they did not. As a result, the miniatures had softer details *and* were more difficult to assemble.
I've seen other KS where the production plastic did not match the sample plastics (eg. Myth Recon and Project ELITE), but that doesn't mean I don't hold a KS creator responsible when their miniatures turn out as melted pieces of sh*t. FFP's Last Night on Earth zombie miniatures were known to be tacky when primed, the campaign only showed sketches and renders, and the number of miniatures wasn't as much as Reaper and CMON, so I passed on it.
I managed to acquire a partially assembled copy through a trade but haven't played it yet. These are some of the worst miniatures I've had the displeasure of assembling and painting.
Man.....Ive had to assemble some...AWFUL miniatures. These didn't come close. There not great..but they sure aint
Relic Knights 1rst edition
robotech
Kaos Ball
Early Super dungeon Explorer
Games workshop fine cast
etc etc
Is there any word on when they will release new heroes or hero cards? For my group, the limited variety and gender of the minis is the only concern with the minis.
True story: my 5yo son assembled and painted the main boss from CotA and named him "Cthulhu". Then he put Cthulhu on his bed stand so he can sleep near him at night.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Is there an expansion with a necromancer? He wants to have his Law Man fight The Shadow King (of Mantic fame).
There's the Void Magus, who's a big tentacly wizard type throwing magic spells at you from his own deck of nastiness. Plus I want to say you can fight multiples of them.
There's the undead Mexican army coming... eventually.
Vampires too.
The web shop constantly has packs of cards for sale. Wait for a major holiday so you can get a good deal- they often have buy X, get 1 free.
Also of note is a cool new variant sculpt they're offering the weekend of DiceFest in October for the Gunslinger (or really whatever class you're playing as).
He's free if you attend, but they'll make him purchasable on the website that weekend. I'll get one.
The Coid Magus looks like a winner, especially with a little Reaper Bones counts-as magic. The void magi come in the same box as the void wretch-alikes, right?
I've been looking at the FFP site and I don't see a pack of hero cards, but I do see a pack that might yield laser guns. Also, at $8 for the alt. gender heroes, I'll pick up any my wife likes the look of, and that cool veteran gunslinger as long as his limited status doesn't make him stupid expensive.
Were there other hero classes than the 8 types from the two starter sets? I suppose I could just use fan created content with some Bones minis, but I'd like to support FFP.
If I recall correctly they ended up with quite a few hero classes beyond the original 8 (off the top of my head there were Prospectors, Samurai, Jungle Natives, Shamans, Gamblers and about another 4 or 5 I can't quite remember).
How long it takes before they get a retail release is anybodies guess though.
Is Forbidden Fortress entirely compatible? For example, would we be able to port over certain characters and monsters from Forbidden Fortress to,say, the Frontier Town?
And what class character would you use for Ol' Jack Burton?
I think I misunderstood. Has wave one of FF shipped yet? I've got a core and a few expansions for SoB and I'm pretty happy with the monsters, etc.. I may use some Bones minis for heroes, especially as the game progresses.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Just wondering how FF compares.
No. Ideally there won't be any waves for FF, it is intended to ship in its entirety in early 2018 (March, if we're lucky, I doubt we'll be that lucky).
What and when it starts showing up at retail I couldn't say, but if we're optimistic and base our guesses off the last few years, I'd say that FFP hopes to deliver to backers in early/mid 2018, have FF cores and maybe a few odds and ends ready for Gencon early previews, and go to retail with the core and who knows what else in late 2018, with the rest of the material from the original campaign filling in retail releases through the rest of this year and most of next year (perhaps even longer, though at the rate they're going I'd be surprised if they weren't mostly done).
To follow that pattern, we'd probably see the otherworlds and FF expansion/enemies/etc material become their release schedule for 2018/2019, maybe even further.
But of course, this is all predicated on there not being any snags or delays, which is overly optimistic.
They have prototypes for figures, tiles, and cards for FF, which is what is being shown off.
When I spoke to them at Gencon, I asked directly about how they felt things were coming along, and with the above caveats as I noted, they thought they were going well. Whether or not boxes actually start landing in people's laps in early next year remains to be seen, and wave 2 shipping has taken a very long time now, but luckily the second campaign changed that up in ways both intentional and not; it's my understanding that the tiers will ship directly to backers (from the factory? a distributor? I'm unclear on that offhand), but add on pieces will come from FFP.
That means incurring possibly two shipping costs for those of us who want add ons (and anyone who has ordered from FFP's web store knows that's probably going to be fairly hefty even for small stuff), but it also means they aren't responsible for receiving everything and building packages as they've been doing for quarters now.
A little thing I picked up from talking to FFP staff at the event; the person's favourite game that they were working on wasn't even announced yet. For whatever that's worth, they have stuff going on behind the scenes that may not come to fruition for years, if ever.
Back during the FF campaign, I explicitly asked them directly about that;
Forar wrote:Not that I expect specifics, and I know a *lot* of work has been done in the lead up to this campaign, but there is a generous amount of contingency time baked into that estimate, right? Just so everyone is on the same page, or if even cracking a few stretch goals will start moving that Q1 target?
Jason from FFP wrote:The SGs were taken into account with the delivery estimate, so there is some wiggle room there. We are working hard to be better scoped and more accurate about every aspect of this KS.
Of course, the best laid plans can still lead to snags beyond their control. A disaster (such as that explosion a few years ago, or a hurricane, etc), a longshoreman's strike at the ports, a clusterfeth of something in production or shipping or whatever, it happens.
I do believe that this project will go better than the last one, but let's just say I'm tempering my expectations where if they aren't starting shipping in 2018 I won't flip out and begin calling for blood.
I'll leave that to some of the others on the Kickstarter comments, the ones who have Doom and Gloom down to an artform.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: Is Forbidden Fortress entirely compatible? For example, would we be able to port over certain characters and monsters from Forbidden Fortress to,say, the Frontier Town?
And what class character would you use for Ol' Jack Burton?
Jack would have to be a custom character/class of his own to do him justice.
The way bad events seem to unfold around him and all.
Of course drifters tend to actually be competent in Brimstone, so...
Give him some bad stats like a preacher with a gun and no sermons, but any time a monster in combat with him scores a critical hit, all damage is done to the monster itself, ignoring defense.
Just a heads up that the Veteran Gunslinger Dice Fest exclusive is up for online order for today only.
I also noticed that they have three new online exclusive resin enemy lieutenant packs (vampire, lost Army and sucubus) and four resin Ally sets (specific miniatures for the varient ally’s from the ally box).
MangoMadness wrote: Wave 2 pledge arrived here yesterday in Australia. (2xOutlaw)
So much stuff!
A quick look and it all looks quite good, alot of great models for SoB or for other RPG games or even KoW.
Very happy with the value and i really didnt mind the wait as I was happy with the value just getting the original box sets
Woohoo that means mine to NZ can't be far off.
Boy as I wrong Just got mine today, lots of stuff, excited to try out the new heroes and all the new missions with all the new monsters.
It's been a long road but SoB is the one of the most played games in my collection and wave 2 has been hotly anticipated (for a loooooong time) with players requesting we set up a regular "Brimstone" night to play through a campaign now that I have all hero classes.
On the (perhaps unlikely) chance that there are regulars in this subforum who don't pay close attention to the KS updates, word from FFP as of Monday was that the Pledge Manager for Forbidden Fortress is supposed to open later this week, and will remain open for a month.
There are some whispers of EU backers starting to get shipping notices, though that might just be preparatory work before things are actually ready to go out. For major distribution on other KS's, I'd occasionally get a notification when they started pre-printing labels, which can take a while in and of itself to get set up.
It wasn't really clarified in the update as to whether any of those new items were going to be additional purchases, or unlockable stretches that will be included in pledge.
I'm leaning towards having to pay up more money, but I sure wouldn't mind if they tossed some of that stuff in for free.
It's not like a bunch of people will upgrade their pledges or anything!
Forar wrote: On the (perhaps unlikely) chance that there are regulars in this subforum who don't pay close attention to the KS updates, word from FFP as of Monday was that the Pledge Manager for Forbidden Fortress is supposed to open later this week, and will remain open for a month.
There are some whispers of EU backers starting to get shipping notices, though that might just be preparatory work before things are actually ready to go out. For major distribution on other KS's, I'd occasionally get a notification when they started pre-printing labels, which can take a while in and of itself to get set up.
Did they say anything about when and how late backers can gain access? I don't receive updates since I backed through FFP's website instead of KS.
highlord tamburlaine wrote: It wasn't really clarified in the update as to whether any of those new items were going to be additional purchases, or unlockable stretches that will be included in pledge.
I'm leaning towards having to pay up more money, but I sure wouldn't mind if they tossed some of that stuff in for free.
It's not like a bunch of people will upgrade their pledges or anything!
The new frontier town/village and the 2 new XXL bosses will be paid add-ons for all.
And could be fairly pricey at that.
I'm hearing estimates of $40 - $50 (sounds high though) for the town and...er...nothing yet on the XXL bosses.
But I'd bet getting all 3 will cost us around $50 - $75, give or take.
They've said the new stuff will be paid add ons. Like the Trun and other enhancements were for the first KS.
Also keep in mind that they will be charging shipping for the core tiers. If you get addons that don't have to wait, you get charged shipping for that stuff (dice, card packs, whatever) too. If you also get delayed (July 2019 or whatever) stuff, there'll be a shipping fee for that as well.
Some of the shipping costs people have been talking about for the gold/black pledges in the second campaign have seemed fairly reasonable to me, but your mileage may vary on that.
It'll be a balancing act of possibly getting the new stuff up to a year before retail (or whatever it ends up being), and whatever discount against MSRP we may have, versus those extra shipping costs.
Which, again, will be up to the individual. For some, paying basically the prices at CoolStuffInc (assuming it's around 30% off retail) but also a shipping fee may be a dealbreaker, even accounting for the early access (which they have confirmed this time). Especially us international folks, where all those addons plus shipping multiple times could get awfully spicy, even with region-friendly support in place.
Hopefully we aren't left waiting until late Saturday or something to find out. Even if it's bad news (in that, I cannot afford everything I'd like to get), I'd like to at least finally know what the butcher's bill could be.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: Is the Shogun deal likely to be a better deal than discounted retail?
I think so.
CoolStuffInc's standard discount seems to be about 1/4 to 1/3 off MSRP.
The graphic on the Kickstarter says that the Shogun's contents come to more than $900 retail, but let's assume that's MSRP, not CSI's discounted price (using CSI purely as a commonly referenced site that is known to have pretty good prices, feel free to instead reference another local store or trusted online shop instead). Even if that's the case, they'd still likely be charging around $600+ for something that is currently offered for $350 to late backers. In addition to that, it comes with 3 Kickstarter exclusive hero classes (Sumo, Shogun, Trederran Veteran), and assuming one doesn't want to go to the trouble of proxying/printing off all the stuff, buying those on the secondary market will likely be ridiculous, assuming similar pricing shenanigans as the Outlaw has seen.
So even contrasted against a fairly steeply discounted site, you're probably paying around half price'ish, give or take (both cash and how much one cares about the exclusives). I'd call that a pretty good deal.
The caveats, however, because I strive to be both a fan and a realist, is that shipping is delayed until the summer, so it could be a while before this stuff lands. If they don't start shipping for half a year, depending on how efficient their service is, it might be late 2018 or even early 2019 before some people get their stuff, and that delays beyond their control could push it even later.
I *don't* think that will be the case, I do hope (perhaps optimistically) that the PM going live soon is a solid indicator that they at least feel they're on schedule within everything they can control, but I'd hate to give advice while not recognizing the potential for frustration down the road.
Would you still be happy paying that fee now for something you might not get for a year? I'm still pretty content and I paid in late 2016, but I respect that not everyone is going to feel that way.
Edit: that said, I'm seeing speculation that the late pledge option may end with the launching of the PM, so while I hate to add any 'high pressure sales/limited time offer' crap, this thing has been available for just about forever, but apparently it's about to close, so anyone on the fence, now seems to be the time to make that call.
It also irks me that if more people had pledged fully during the campaign that stuff could've been included for free. Now I can pay almost half my pledge to get them instead! Or they could have subsidized/ reduced the costs based on how much they raise in the pledge manager, which I imagine could be quite significant.
...sadly it's still tempting even though I know better.
I waver between adding like $200+ in extra stuff, to going with just another bag of darkstone (I know we can get purple acrylic for pennies elsewhere) and a couple of dice sets, to maybe snagging the dice mega pack and selling half of it off at a small markup to recoup a chunk of that cash on the secondary market.
For the actual content, I figure I can always get most of it at retail, maybe even some at Gencon before retail (but after backer shipments, of course), and the three new card packs would hopefully be something I could snag under their usual 3 for the price of 2 deal (online or at a convention).
Part of me just want to throw a giant pile of cash at this and call it a day, but I suspect I can probably get most of the stuff that'll eventually be at retail for a much better price if I'm willing to wait a bit.
Guess I've got a few weeks to get that sorted out.
Not to be 'that guy', but the first Kickstarter had no guarantees that backers would get things first. It was certainly assumed by many, and a point of high controversy when Cynder started hitting store shelves, let alone wider release to CSI and other retailers.
This one they've explicitly said would go to backers first.
I'm willing to leave an asterisk there for 'maybe some limited number will end up at Gencon, as is often the case', but ideally they'll ship in July 2019, which is conveniently before Gencon, which would render it moot (though based on the shipping fiasco that has been the first KS, I'd be a little suspect of having everything in the mail before the convention, let alone received by all backers, but that's just noting the realities here, maybe they intend for the 2019 Forbidden Fortress stuff to be their 2020 release?)
So, I'm not so much arguing the point as trying to indicate that I hear the frustration, and I do hope they've mitigated the matter/planned accordingly. Hell, based on the delays they've suffered to date, they might not have any on hand until late 2019 anyway...
But you're right, not having to go back over notes from a year or two back to double check what was missed would have some advantages.
Given availability of SoB items in the UK I have gone all in with the additional items. Also grabbed multiple sets of enemies where they come with an additional threat card. Just grabbed the one extra dragon rather than the 4 pack. Finally, also added in the doorway set as that’s not part of the pledge level this time around.
Given how behind I am on my painting I can’t justify springing for additional enemy packs for the alternate colour schemes.
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