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Post by: cincydooley
 Forar wrote:
I mean, they'd have to be crazy to not account for the cost of shipping hundreds or thousands of packages out. Physical rewards (production of and shipping of) have been KS margin killers for years. People were talking about losing money on KS campaigns due to irresponsible physical rewards (especially for otherwise non-physical objects like video games) for at least 3 or 4 years.
That shipping costs and challenges remain 'a thing' for so many campaigns is indicative of people simply not doing their research. Yes, some years can go by and shipping costs can jump unexpectedly, and let's not forget that money received during the campaign gets a good 8-10% or so haircut, so that $40 for shipping might only be $36 or so, etc.
I agree mostly, but I think a big piece for many campaigns does actually come down to products not being finished, so the size and weight isn't entirely known, coupled with the incredible batch volume that, quite frankly, many companies aren't entirely used to dealing with.
I think a good example of this, honestly, is how CMoN has changed how they going about processing and performing their shipping. They've adapted from their first few KS campaigns where shipping was an "unknown quantity" (not a great phrase here, but I'm using it  ). That's really all I'm looking for from companies.
Learn from your mistakes and tighten the process. That's what should happen.
Keep repeating the same ones? That's where you lose me.
I'm not saying we should necessarily excuse some of the really really really really poor communication from FFP, or some of the lack of quality that at least I perceive, but for me, shipping is one area that I'm willing to cut 1st and even 2nd time project runners a little bit more slack on. Automatically Appended Next Post: Truth be told, if I didn't have an Asian shipping hub set up, I probably wouldn't ship to Australia.
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Post by: Orlanth
I wonder if you can buy the Mythos miniatures separately. I dont want to get into Wild West gaming, but I wouldn't mind some mythos gribblies. These ones look decent.
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Post by: Bromsy
Got my first full game in tonight. Pretty boss, did the 'City of the Ancients' quest.
Fudged a couple of rules - drew from the standard threat deck instead of the Otherworld threat deck for the final boss fight; but had a good time. We kind of breezed through - we had exceptionally good luck on our hold back the darkness, and had two dynamites for the final boss - which actually turned out to be a bunch of elite monsters.
Dynamite is pretty awesome against hordes - one throw ended up wounding a night terror and killing four stranglers.
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Post by: Fireflyjmh
Dynamite is a must as some of the spawn draws can really fill up a room.
How many people in the party and what characters were you using?
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Post by: Bromsy
We had six - Gunslinger, Preacher, Outlaw, Indian Scout, Rancher and Marshal.
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Post by: Fireflyjmh
Nice.
How did the preacher work out, that is one we haven't tried out yet?
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Post by: Bromsy
 Fireflyjmh wrote:Nice.
How did the preacher work out, that is one we haven't tried out yet?
Oh, fairly decent - considering I forgot the swamps of death book at home. I just winged it, gave him some faith every time he did something good - he did bludgeon two night terrors to death with his bible.
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Post by: Fireflyjmh
Awesome....
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Post by: timd
Finally… delivery scheduled for Nov 5th.
T
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Post by: Alpharius
Got mine today!
Won't have time to give 'em a good look until...Wednesday or Thursday?
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Post by: Bromsy
I started trying to clean and prep the minis for painting, and somehow I managed to lose all of my hobby knives. Preliminary tests tell me that files might not be a good thing to use on this material.
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Post by: Alpharius
What?
I thought this was HIPs "hard plastic"?!?
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Post by: Forar
I messaged them earlier to ask if there was anything that could be done to get Canadian packages moving along, since shipping costs and arrangements appears to be a considerable issue taking very considerable amounts of time.
The surprisingly timely (as in, only an hour or two later) response was that they might have found a viable solution, and that they hoped to start shipping Canadian boxes in the next day or two.
Obviously it remains to be seen, but it'd be very nice if some Canadian notifications went out soon, especially since there only seems to be a few hundred of us, based on the backer location data mining that has been done.
An update detailing the progress of US fulfillment and touching on EU/Europe and the Rest of the World would be damned nice in the coming days, that's for sure. The natives (in the comments) are getting restless.
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Post by: Goremaul
Well, here's hoping that they can get the Canadian packages moving along. I didn't think it would take so long, seeing as we're just north and all that.
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Post by: Gomez
 Goremaul wrote:Well, here's hoping that they can get the Canadian packages moving along. I didn't think it would take so long, seeing as we're just north and all that.
Hell, I'm a US backer who still hasn't even received a shipping notice, let alone a package... Anyone who pays more attention to the KS comments have any info. about a timeline for when I should start being worried?
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Post by: Bromsy
 Gomez wrote: Goremaul wrote:Well, here's hoping that they can get the Canadian packages moving along. I didn't think it would take so long, seeing as we're just north and all that.
Hell, I'm a US backer who still hasn't even received a shipping notice, let alone a package... Anyone who pays more attention to the KS comments have any info. about a timeline for when I should start being worried?
Do you know your backer number?
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Post by: Forar
People have mined the info coming out, there doesn't really seem to be a rhyme or reason. It doesn't help that, obviously, we're working from only a tiny portion of the data to be mined, but state, name, backer number, order in which the pledge manager was filled out, there are tons of holes.
If they're using a clear cut system, we haven't quite figured it out yet.
Hopefully they'll give us an update someday soon to let us know what's going on. The state of US shipping, how Europe is shaping up, if Canada has actually begun (no signs of notifications yet that I've seen), the ROROW, etc.
Some in the comments postulate that they don't want to deliver bad news. I think leaving us simmering on our own is making people far crankier and anxious than simply telling us clearly what is going on. Even bad news (as long as it isn't "ooops, we dropped a container in a lake, gonna need another 4 months to produce and ship them around, oh and another hundred grand, that'd be swell"), delivered professionally and with a sense that those matters are being addressed, is better than silence.
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Post by: Azazelx
They've clearly got no intention of delivering to RoW in 2014. Canadians might be luckier, and I hope for your sake they they do deliver to CA this year.
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Post by: Squat Kid
I got my notification for shipping earlier this week. Thats for shipping to MN, so I can't imagine Canadian shipping would be TOO much more
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Post by: Azazelx
Within a country is always a lot easier/cheaper than internationally, even when it's next door.
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Post by: Bromsy
 Squat Kid wrote:I got my notification for shipping earlier this week. Thats for shipping to MN, so I can't imagine Canadian shipping would be TOO much more
I live in the cities and I got mine 10/27.
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Post by: Forar
 Azazelx wrote:They've clearly got no intention of delivering to RoW in 2014. Canadians might be luckier, and I hope for your sake they they do deliver to CA this year.
I appreciate that, and hope for your sake that they sort out AUS/NZ shipping in short order, because however they do it, I assume it's gonna be on a boat for a long while, and you guys deserve to join in the world hopping shenanigans with everyone else.
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Post by: Aeneades
From the Shadows of Brimstone Comments this evening -
Hey Guys,
We have been up to our eyeballs in shipping and logistics over the last...month or two, so we haven't had a whole lot of time for communication (between being in Germany for two weeks sending out EU packages, working through the nights and weekends here to send out US and ROW packages, managing the logistics of getting the cargo containers full of games to us, while dealing with dock worker union slow-downs, walk-outs, and strikes up here in the port of Tacoma - which has made just getting the containers of games a very slow and painful process, being on the phone everyday with carriers and exporters, as well as trying to keep manufacturing/design/test going at least a little bit so we don't fall too far behind schedule of production of wave 2, not to mention normal business operations for the company...whew!).
Anyway, I thought it would be worthwhile to pop on just for a minute to say that we are working our butts off to get everyone their games as soon as humanly possible/making sure the game is as good as it possibly can be, as well as to answer any questions (as best I can) for a bit.
So, what do you want to talk about?
-Jason
@Teadrinker / Davros – “what is the situation with the continuance or EU shipping” – The short answer is that we were in Germany for 2 weeks sending out packages. In that time we completed sending about 85% of them. The remaining ones that we didn’t have time to pack and ship before we had to get on a plane back to the US were to be packed and sent by our German distribution partner that was hosting us there and helping us out. There have been several issues with customs and tax declarations and many of the packages started bouncing back, in need of more info. They are working to resolve this issue now so that shipping can resume and we should have progress on that front any day (as I understand it). There is one other issue in that China did not send enough extra sets of red minis in the Germany container and so most of the packages that were not sent yet were Mine Carts. We had been talking about trying to freight out more sets of red minis to Germany to cover the difference, but at this point we are considering just sending out the rest of Wave 1 packages to Mine Cart backers without the red minis and including them in Wave 2 instead, so as not to add further delay to EU Mine Cart backers getting their core sets.
@ Sean Payne – “How far away are you from finishing US shipping?” – We are getting very close on finishing US shipping and expect that virtually all of those packages will go out in the next week or so (assuming we can get the next container of games which has been sitting on a cargo ship in the port, waiting for the union dock workers to unload it for over a week already).
@ Adrian – “With the Gunslinger's Quickdraw ability if 2 enemy types appear on the one threat card, how many attacks would the gunslinger get, 1 or 2?” – Only 1
@ Adrian – “When can ROW backers expect an update on shipping?” – We should be putting up an update soon. As for the quick version, the previous plan we had in place for Australian shipping fell through and we are now working with our distributors in Australia to find a good/fast solution to get you guys taken care of ASAP. Right now, my top priorities are getting Australian shipping resolved and going, and getting Canadian shipping underway (I think we have finally resolved the hold ups for Canada as well. Yay!).
@ Darryl G – As for Canada, see above. With any luck, Canadian shipments should be going out next week. We are finishing off the 3rd container, and waiting for the 4th and 5th containers to arrive to us (dock worker slow-downs have created a mess).
@ Davros – “What do you think of bills journal can you sort out shipping for his game ad its his birthday Monday and Irishman is in need of some love from the frog 8)?” – I have had my head down trying to keep things going for so long, I think I’m out of the loop a bit on the comments here. No idea what you’re talking about. ;P As for Irishman, Happy Birthday from the Frog!
@ Finn K – “What percentage of shipping is US at?” – I would say around 80% have been sent out for US.
“RoW are wondering what status of shipping is, have bulk shippers been chosen for any countries? Which countries will ship direct? What do time lines look like?” – Covered most of this that I can above. As for time line (which is arguably the most important thing to people), all I can say is that I’m working really hard to make it happen as fast as possible. Unless there are any more hiccups, Canada should start going out early next week, and Australia/NZ should start going out in bulk immediately after that.
“The escape roll (from combat) says it is necessary if hero moves away, what if hero just moves around to get a better line of sight to throw dynamite?” – Still have to Escape. It’s any time you want to leave a space that is adjacent to an Enemy, regardless of the destination space.
“P.S. Anything you can do about snow storm in Colorado that has my delivery stuck due to severe weather?” – I will speak to the Weather Wizard. ;P
@ Les Fulbrook – “Firstly thanks for coming on. You guys are probably worked down to the bone,I'd like to say its very much appreciated. Glad to hear you are looking into ways to sort the EU situation. So I guess thanks again. Will there be more updates now that all the conventions are over?” – Thanks. We are all exhausted, but cannot rest until the job is done! We are still working to keep up the once a month update. The most recent one has fallen behind a bit because we have been so slammed. Soon though.
@ Jeff Rodgers – “I realize shipping and customs can be a pain...I am assuming uk customs sent everything back?” – Not all, but many came back from the UK and France (which even our German distributor was surprised by, and they do this sort of thing… a lot).
@ Kevin A. – “We appreciate your communication. Has ROW, specifically Australian, shipping actually begun, when should we expect our first waves?” – We have been packing the boxes, but they have not shipped yet. Hopefully the bulk freight should be going out to Australia in the next couple of weeks.
@ Merijeek – “Hmmm...amazing what some people talking to Kickstarter can make happen” – Not sure what this is in reference to.
@ Adrian – “so if you drew multiple threat cards at the same time you would only get 1 attack with Quickdraw for the group of threat cards drawn? Would you then get another attack if another group appeared later in the combat?” – Correct.
@ Quirknessity – “If I somehow damage my pieces during the construction and wish to buy a single extra figure, will they be for sale in the (near) future?” – Not sure on this. If you send an email to admin@flyingfrog.net, they should be able to help you out.
@ Davros – “On a game related question for when I get it 8) I know that in smaller player games you don't use the epic threat but it seems a shame to not face the big guys . Any tips on how to make the game all model inclusive without just killing every hero?” – It’s only a suggestion not to use Epics in a 1 or 2 hero game. You certainly can, it’s just more dangerous. You’re more likely to succeed if you are slightly higher level. I would suggest, either wait and add them in once you are second level or higher, or you could try adding a Revive token or 2 just for the final battle.
@ Rikki Oliver – “Also appreciate being updated - And glad to hear Aus is being worked on - is New Zealand included in the Aussie solution?” – That is the current plan, yes.
@ Davros – “I also remember quests about peril dice .should there be one in each core set.?” – Yes.
@ Javier – “I picked up my Outlaw pledge at GenCon but when i got home I upgraded to Minecart. I was going to anyway. Will I get my red variants in Wave 1?” – I’m not sure on that one. They may be going out in Wave 2 for Mine Cart Upgrades.
@ The Raggedyman – “will Mary Beth go out with me?” – Hah! Sorry mate, she’s married.
@ Graham – “Good stuff Jason thanks a lot am Mine Cart myself and can well live with out red minis so applaud your derision to stick on to 2.Sorry that should read decision.Typical of Uk customs the old bounce back system.Is there anything on the outside of the packing e.g. your full mail address that would put the country of origin as USA that could be the cause maybe needs some black tape!!” – Shouldn’t be. It sounded like it was some weirdness about wanting more info on the value.
@ “Finn K. – “once wave 1 has shipped, prior to 1.5/2 will there be a possibility for re-opening the pledgemanager (or some type of similar ordering interface) for doing add-ons only? (i.e. no pledges). Say for instance I wanted to add another bear, or more corpse piles minis etc?” – There are no plans for this currently. The amount of variables for every order is already quite staggering, so we aren’t inclined to make things even more complicated at this point.
@ Adrian – “given that US shipments are almost complete and EU should be finished shortly, with Canadian shipments heading out next week, it is disappointing to hear that the rest of the ROW shipments are still being worked on.
What can ROW backers expect for wave 1.5 and wave 2? Will their shipments be sent last again?” – To be fair, every region is ‘still being worked on’. The previous plan we had for Australia fell through, which created a set back. Once we have the final solution in place for wave 1, that should carry over to wave 1.5/wave 2, so there is no reason I can see to believe that Australia would have a similar set back then.
@ Davros – “Trying to remember questions raised that just wasn't where is it.one question is has there been a pattern you have used for shipping. that's for
The statistic guys and gals 8)?” – For US, it has mainly been by Pledge Level. For everyone else, it has been bulk by region.
@ Jedra7609 – Customs and shipping carriers always seem to find a way to charge more than they said they would and slow down shipments more than anyone would like.
@ Davros – “Thats a shame about bills journal as it's just about novella length now and tells the story of bill hunters adventures down the mines.it has been well received by all that have read it perhaps he could send it to you. You have been missing out on some good fan based stuff here it's not always doom and gloom.” – Believe me, I’ve missed out on a lot of things over the last year. Hopefully get a chance to enjoy more of the session reports and fan fiction when I get a chance to breathe again!
@ The other Jason – “any idea when the uk ones will be sent again i for one am really looking forward to receiving the game
is it the red figures or the post that is holding it up at the moment?” – I think they are actively working on getting the rest of the EU ( UK included) sent out right now. So it shouldn’t be too long I think.
@ Adrian /Irishman – Thanks! We are excited about getting it out into the world!
@ Ryan Johnson – “Hey guys, just got the game, stoked to play it! But it didn't come with the art book. The packing slip clearly does not have it checked, but my pledge of $150 says it comes with an art book. Thanks!” – The Art Book will be in Wave 2 with the rest of the stretch Goals.
@ Jef Rodger – “Now that you've got experience creating a campaign style game is there any plans for a "campaign kit" for my favourite game " a touch of evil"? That would be awesome” – Can’t speak to that right now, but we have lots of cool stuff planned for all of the games!
@ Fawks – “I was wondering if you guys will reveal anything about the Darkstone Hydra in whatever new update may come since I'm looking forward to that guy the most.” – The DS Hydra has been in test for a while now. He’s really fun! Even though it’s an XL monster, it is not an Epic threat. Instead it scales based on the number of Heroes. It’s attacks ar based off the number of heads it has at any given time and it regenerates them when they are cut off, so you have to act fast to stop it!
@ the other jason - “i think that has been the main issue for a lot of us the game looks so awesome and we are passionate about it and want to play it that any delays become exacerbated and perhaps a little blown out of proportion.” – It’s true, though you would be shocked at some of the emails and hateful things people send us on a daily basis. I can’t imagine that anyone would even say a lot of that stuff to another human if face to face. This can be very demoralizing, because we are making games to have fun and tell cool stories. All I would ask is, before sending a hate-filled rant email or post, pause and ask yourself. Is this intended to really do anything other than hurt people. If so, is there a more civil way to handle it than spew hate and threats and name-calling. Just saying.
@ Jorune – “Thanks for an awesome game Jason. It's nice to see you guys come back in for a chat.” – We certainly aren’t intending to keep anyone in the dark, but there are only so many hours in the day, and you can only spread yourself so thin. Glad I could come on and answer some questions though.
@ Irishman – Not sure what the status of your guy’s individual stuff is at the moment. It could already be on its way.
@ Mark Bramlage – Thanks! Glad to hear you’re enjoying the game!
@ Davros – NP
@ Morgan Vening – “regarding the timelines, when can we expect the next proper update, and what are the "worst case" or "re-update" dates for the timelines you've given for EU/RoW/Canada?” – Next proper Update should be soon. As for EU/RoW/Canada, I think I already covered that below as best as I can right now (though while I was answering these questions, I did get a call back from a carrier saying that it looks like we have a green light on the newest pricing and import set up for Canada, so we should be able to start shipping Canada as early as Monday of next week. Yay!).
@ Bill – “I am the Story Writer and the Birthday Person on Monday.... Can I beg for a shipping notice? ” – By all accounts your stories are great! I’ll have to check them out when I get a chance! As for shipping, I can look into it, to see where you are at in the order.
@ Javier – “I opted for 1.5 Wave! Could the red variants come then?” – If you have 1.5, then the red minis should go out with that instead of wave 2.
@ blunder1983 – “Could you guys give us any teasers of newly sculpted minis? Seeing all those surprises in the pm was awesome.” – At this point most of the minis are sculpted, it’s just taking a long time to get going on the molds for them. The Lost Army are hands down my favorite! And the Black Fang Tribe look awesome!
@ the other Jason – You would be surprised. A lot of the most hate-filled emails come right after updates!
@ Jef – Nice!
@ Andrew Irwin – “to clarify the New Zealand shipping so I keep my hopes and expectation in reality.
A week or two to ship bulk to Australia.
However long to ship (air or sea?)
Time for customs and shipping partner.
A week or so to New Zealand.
So realistically January in my hands?”
I would love to have an answer for you, but there are just too many variables right now. You probably know transit times from AU to NZ best, but that sounds like a pretty appropriate guess, especially with the holidays slowing things down.
@ Fawks – “Oh shoot before I forget. This is for in game items. When I or another person gets an item, when we start a new campaign, should we shuffle those gear/artifacts back into the deck again so that they can be drawn again or should we take them out of the deck if someone owns it so that they have a sort of uniqueness to them?” – That is up to you. We usually throw all the gear and artifacts back in the decks at the end of a session and then grab them back out for our Heroes at the start of a new mission. That way they are unique for our posse, but it doesn’t prevent other posses from finding them along the way.
Ok guys,
Back to the grind! I'll try to pop back in again in the next few days.
Thanks,
Jason
(Thanks to Erik Freund for compiling it all together here -> http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/1269367/heads )
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Post by: Bromsy
Got another 1.5 adventures in with a couple buddies, hopefully the start of a real campaign - man the town mechanic is a fun little side game. Of course, my gunslinger just sat in the Saloon the whole time kicking ass at craps, but it was cool. I can't wait for the expanded town thingy now.
Plus I got an upgraded pistol during the first adventure. Name escapes me but it's the 3 shot one that does extra damage against undead. Only problem is it can't be upgraded - but we can hold off and get everyone else kitted out. Got a darkstone upgrade for the Indian Scout's carbine so it's now 4 shots. That thing rocks.
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Post by: Fireflyjmh
My group has run into some bad encounters traveling to town, heck in one game the encounter ended up causing masses of mutations and lost Dark Stone.
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Post by: Bromsy
Fireflyjmh wrote:My group has run into some bad encounters traveling to town, heck in one game the encounter ended up causing masses of mutations and lost Dark Stone.
Yeah, a few bad rolls can hose you pretty thoroughly. I think buying a carriage or something to mitigate the travel dangers is something you want to look at fast for any long running game.
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Post by: Fireflyjmh
Yes... and the box to store the dark stone fragments.
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Post by: Bromsy
Yup. As much fun as it is upgrading weapons - and that four shot carbine is beast - It's definitely those two things that you need for long play.
You can always find better gear, and Saloon Girl and Preacher aside, everyone has a halfway decent starting weapon.
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Post by: Forar
Notification received up here in the (literally) frozen wastes to the North!
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Post by: Goremaul
Nice! Hopefully more to follow soon. 
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Post by: Alpharius
Hurrah for Canada!
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Post by: Goremaul
Woo! Got my shipping notice too! 
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Post by: Gomez
Just got mine as well. Says it'll be at my door tomorrow after work... Looking forward to getting a few games in over Thanksgiving.
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Post by: Goremaul
Just finished our first game and we did run across a question...
Basically we got to the objective room in the intro adventure and had 3 Growing Dread cards. The first one we resolved moved the track to where we should draw another Growing Dread. We played it that it added to the stack (as they hadn't all been resolved yet) and kinda lost the adventure because of it. A string of bad rolls and the Darkness made a mad dash out of the mine.
That sound about how you guys would play it?
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Post by: Bromsy
Goremaul wrote:Just finished our first game and we did run across a question...
Basically we got to the objective room in the intro adventure and had 3 Growing Dread cards. The first one we resolved moved the track to where we should draw another Growing Dread. We played it that it added to the stack (as they hadn't all been resolved yet) and kinda lost the adventure because of it. A string of bad rolls and the Darkness made a mad dash out of the mine.
That sound about how you guys would play it?
As far as I know that's the right way to play it.
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Post by: Forar
First set of boxes has arrived in Toronto. Hopefully my buddy gets his soon as well, and we can cart one set over to the people who will actually be keeping the Mine Cart.
... now that I finally have it, I'm actually leaning towards keeping the second set as well, for something to play with random groups of people over at my place.
>.<
Not the financially sound solution I'd originally stuck with for nearly a year.
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Post by: Goremaul
I'll admit, I've had an absolute blast with the first couple of games. Really reminds me of Warhammer Quest, but a lot more forgiving (so far).
I'm a little disappointed with the quality of the miniatures, but all the other game components have been quite good.
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Post by: Bromsy
At some point I'll probably look into buying higher quality minis for the heroes. The monsters are more than good enough for my purposes. The only ones I don't really like are the undead folks, but conveniently I have a million goddamned zombies between Last Night on Earth, Zombicide, and my long unused Vampire Counts army.
Thinking about taking their idea of having a themed threat deck with just lots of hungry dead. Zompocalypse is on!
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Post by: Aeneades
Received mine in the UK today with red figures! No shipping notification so was a surprise (and left on the doorstep!).
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Post by: Gomez
Finally opened mine up and assembled everything and I have to agree with cincydooley from a few pages back - overall the miniatures are a serious disappointment. The Hungry Dead are pretty much all sloppy, soft detail, neither of the XL creastures (Goliath and Harbinger) fit together worth a hang, and the Heroes in particular are a real mess - half of them look like they're pretty much melting TBH. They're bad enough that the very idea of cleaning and painting them makes me not even want to bother.
That said, the Tentacles are VERY nice, the Void Spiders are simple but extremely effective sculpts, and the large creatures (Night Terrors and Slashers) are both quite nice. It's almost like they were cast by a completely different factory.
All that doesn't even mention the game-play, which in our limited experience has been an absolute blast. Fun, easy to learn, and every session has ended with us looking forward to the next. Basically, if I think about it like a miniatures game I start to get aggravated, but if I stick to thinking of it like an RPG/board game it's pretty amazing.
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Post by: Forar
Spent a couple of hours plucking tokens and tiles from their cardboard... err, sprues (?), hoping to build the figures and go over the rules this weekend, if I can find the time to do so.
There is a LOT of stuff in these boxes.
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Post by: Alpharius
I've yet to open my sets, and I'll admit, now I'm more or less afraid to open them!
I went Minecart because Weird Wild West is one of my favotire genres.
To have many of the miniatures end up in the 'disappointing' category is, well, quite disappointing.
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Post by: Gomez
 Alpharius wrote:I've yet to open my sets, and I'll admit, now I'm more or less afraid to open them!
I went Minecart because Weird Wild West is one of my favotire genres.
To have many of the miniatures end up in the 'disappointing' category is, well, quite disappointing.
You know what, though? I'm not sure it matters. The game is ridiculously fun IMO, even with plain gray plastic. In fact, I'm leaning toward leaving them as is and just playing the heck out of it, it's been that enjoyable.
If I do decide to paint them, I'm already considering a few things that might satisfy the painter in me:
1.) Paint the Hungry Dead as ghosts (white primer + gray/green washes) to mitigate the terrible detail.
2.) Use some big baddies from Cthulhu Wars or something similar to replace the Goliath and Harbinger.
3.) Find alternate metal or resin minis to replace the Heroes (Artizan, Foundry, Reaper, etc. all have decent options).
Not perfect solutions, I know, but they'll work and make things look pretty nice. Here's hoping FFP aren't satisfied with board game quality miniatures and are actively looking into better production for their future SOBS products (might be wishful thinking, but I'm ever the optimist).
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Post by: Goremaul
The main problem with the miniatures is they seem to be somewhere between board game pieces and actual miniatures. The larger critters (Goliath, Night Terrors, and probably the Harbinger) have some fairly big gaps that you may want to putty.
This being said, I've been doing very quick and dirty paint jobs on them (basecoat, wash, -maybe- a drybrush) and they're turning out great. The detail just isn't there to make them into masterpieces, so just make 'em look good.
Stop bein' yeller and git into those mines pardner! The Darkness ain't that scary, and there's riches to be found in them thar hills...
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Post by: Alpharius
Goremaul (and others) - you've motivated me to begin the perilous journey!
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Post by: Goremaul
Woo! I convinced someone on the internet! I win at... internet?
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Post by: Alpharius
Absolutely!
Unfortunately that counter resets after today - so live it up for the next (x) hours!
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Post by: Azazelx
All this about the figures is very disappointing. The renders looked quite decent. Are the details perhaps done by an inexperienced (with miniatures) digital sculptor - so not deep enough - or is the material crappy?
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Post by: cincydooley
It actually makes me really wonder if Aaron is painting resins. I know he's an amazing painter, but man, if he's getting that kind of detail out of the hero miniatures, he's even better than I thought he was.
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Post by: Goremaul
The material isn't too bad. It's not as nice as Wargames Factory or GW, but it's close (seems less dense if that makes sense). The detail on a lot of the minis is very soft, so I'd be tempted to say the inexperienced scuplter might be a culprit. The way they broke up the models on the sprues is really weird too. Some of them have big gaps from that, while others just have mold lines in bad spots.
I'd be willing to bet the show models are resins, because the models that are showcased in the adventure books, sure as hell aren't the models I got.
If you were in this purely for the miniatures, you be disappointed. As a whole game though, it's quite satisfactory.
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Post by: Siygess
I am definitely getting a Guardian Chronicles vibe* with the miniatures here which is somewhat disappointing considering the number of extra hero and monster packs available during the KS and how much they cost. I guess they ended up looking more like the one on the left rather than the one in the middle :(
* of course, with GC, the backers kicked up such a stink because of the quality of the final minis that Iello is supposedly producing a new set of higher quality minis for us at some point in the future..
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Post by: Goremaul
Nah, they're not -that- bad. I want to say closer to the Martian if anything.
I just painted up that marshal yesterday actually.
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Post by: Alpharius
Goremaul wrote:Nah, they're not -that- bad. I want to say closer to the Martian if anything.
I just painted up that marshal yesterday actually.
So...Pics?
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Post by: Taarnak
The figures aren't that bad but there are some issues I have with them:
The detail on all of them is pretty shallow. Some of the heroes/heroines faces are very shallow, and in the case of the Saloon Girl, almost nonexistent. One of the male heroes also has a distorted face as though the mold was poorly cut or the sprues was pulled too early.
Almost all of the multi-part figures have gaps that require a lot of work to fix or fill. All of the multi-part figures also seem like they were molded with PVC in mind, because of the connecting pieces. They are some form of T-connector instead of flat surfaces or ball joint style connections.
I have personally started looking for alternative hero figures. The monsters are unique enough that I'll fix their issues and be happy with them.
Game components are really good so far. I haven't punched anything out yet but the printing all looks good, and the card stock feels solid. Rulebooks are all nicely done. Cards seem pretty good quality to me as well.
~Eric
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Post by: Goremaul
 Alpharius wrote: Goremaul wrote:Nah, they're not -that- bad. I want to say closer to the Martian if anything.
I just painted up that marshal yesterday actually.
So...Pics?
Once I stop being lazy. I'll try to in the next couple of days.
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Post by: highlord tamburlaine
I'm wondering if we'll see any improvements on later figures, as the factory/ artists/ whoever is working on the figures has more time to dig those features in.
Truth be told- I've had my boxes built and punched out and waiting to play for at least over a month now, and still haven't gotten around to it. 
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Post by: Forar
Built the figures from one box (and the heroes from the other) on Sunday and hope to get a beginner game or two in tonight (solo) to get the mechanics down before I try to teach it to anyone else.
Read through the rules, and thus far I'm pretty happy with them. There's enough going on I think my group will take to it, but not so much as to be overwhelming to the more analysis paralysis inclined folks. There are some neat mechanics, and I can see that just adding the core boxes together has potential for some great world hopping shenanigans, let alone when we get 1-X more of them added.
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Post by: usernamesareannoying
Do any of you guys know if the downloadable rules are the same as what you get in the box?
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Post by: Forar
I believe they are, however there are more rules found in the Adventure book, so even having the main book still leaves parts out, especially character stats, advancement charts, campaign and town info.
Plus the missions and whatnot, obviously.
But yeah, far as I know, that book is the same one sitting in our boxes.
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Post by: Triple9
Looks like MM got their stock in for sale. So for us fools who only put a buck into the pot and plan on buying one, is City of Ancients or Swamps of Death better (either in gameplay or miniature quality or any other factor)?
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Post by: Goremaul
That's a tough call. I'm tempted to say the monsters in City of the Ancients aren't as nasty to fight, but the Swamps of Death ones were nicer to assemble. I'm not really sure what else to say...
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Post by: str00dles1
Friend got the big mine cart deal, so for now he has both cores and double figures with the red sprues. I got stuck painting it all!! finished every figure in two weeks, so its fully painted now, double cores.
We play it once a week as a campaign. Very good rules. The most anoying thing is how you set up the enemys in the checker pattern. If there is alot your often guessing how it should go and making the best pattern you can. This could have been better.
Our group is the Bandito, Outlaw, Rancher, Indian, and Saloon Girl (who is the best tank ever!)
Bandito throws bombs, Outlaw is double pistole shooting maddness, Rancher murders the weaklings very effectivly, Indian is all around useful, and the Saloon girl is a pretty sick tank. +3 Save, with 5+ Armor. Only 11 HP but soon hopefully to get more.
Mitiature quality like others have said isnt good. I compair it to detail and quality of Arcadia Quest (As I just got it) and its not even close. The monsters are fine for the most part, though the fitting of pieces is horrid. Stranglers, Nighhterrors, and the two big guy had so many gaps I spent a lot of time filling them. Gave up after awhile as it wasnt working so good. The heroes are also really bad detail wise. It being my friends game, it doesent bother me as much as it would my own, but if I saw the quality in person before hand I would have passed on it. for dropping over 500$ on it, and how much money they made, I would expect highly detailed scuplts.
Gameplay great, models bad
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Post by: Forar
I know many will consider this a weaksauce argument, but it's worth noting that someone counted them up and a Mine Cart comes with somewhere over 300 minis (a cursory Google'ing is failing me), putting them around $1.50 apiece.
I'm new to minis games, I can see some of the gaps and mold lines and unfortunate casts where some detail has been lost that might drive devout decades long players crazy, but for what we paid it seems like a pretty solid deal. Of course, for retail sales to sing, it'll need to be a deal when it's more like $4+ per mini, and that's going to be something to see shape up, but of course we're also probably half a year or more from it being an issue (whenever they start delivering on wave 1.5, wave 2, and start eyeing retail/gencon).
Not to be an apologist over here, just thought I'd point that out.
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Post by: highlord tamburlaine
My ponderings are whether later expansions of any sort still go the route of figures on sprues that need to be assembled, or if we may end up seeing some of the figures already prebuilt.
Maybe even a combination thereof- single piece figures already attached to bases, or large figures semi- assembled that would need minimal building to be completed.
I know the unassembled figures have been a big point of contention for the Frogs. If time and money were not a factor, I would imagine they'd probably have everything prebuilt in order to speed up getting in to the game.
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Post by: str00dles1
So we have played this 3 Times Campaign and 1 time with the learner mission.
If you remember FFGs old Doom game, this is pretty much an updated version.
Granted ,the 2 times we played to win with getting 4 clues, but the 3rd time we played 2 clues. We have yet to win someone usually dies or a few of us do, and the darkness always escapes. The game is good and flavorful, but wow its like smashing your head off a desk. We get to the boss room, and every time cards chain to not only push the darkness track along rapidly, but the room and room behind us gets filled with monsters. Filled like every square filled. We have gotten to lvl 3 (most of us) and its still crushing us. More so now that some are level 3
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Post by: ced1106
Well, you could buy 'em both from TimeWellSpent for $60 each so you didn't have to make that decision... https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1285081/time-well-spent-shadows-brimstone-5990-both-versio AFAIK, BGG doesn't have a definitive answer. Just go by the character classes and terrain. I can say that swamp bases take longer to make than dry ones! https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1284111/painting-tutorial-corpse-fields-and-swamp-bases-se
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Post by: endtransmission
Either is a good starting point, but I prefer the models in City of the Ancients. The undead figures aren't all that great imo, so you're better off with the spider critters and night terrors of CotA.
Gameplay wise, I think both look to be on a par with each other. In Swamps you're more likely to be ambushed, but will regain Grit slightly faster than in the mines. In Ancients you're going to start taking damage from the cold, but will regain Grit slightly faster than in the mines.
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Post by: ced1106
In case you missed the FFP corpse piles sale, here's a tutorial I made on BGG to make your own corpse piles from Secret Weapon Miniatures' Corpse Field bases!
https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1284111/painting-tutorial-corpse-fields-and-swamp-bases-se
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Post by: Triple9
For anyone interested, CoolStuffInc has Swamps of Death for 58.99 today.
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Post by: MangoMadness
Saw copies of both boxes here in Adelaide Australia in a city store this morning.
Hopefully backer copies arnt too far off.
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Post by: Azazelx
I imagine it's the same situation as RRT. Retailers have them via their distributors. Backers can go hang.
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Post by: MangoMadness
I certainly wouldn't put them in the same league, i believe ffg said in their last update that Aus was picked, packed and container was loaded and shipped.
RRT are still trying to hire a cartographer to draw them a map of where terra australis might lie.
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Post by: Fireflyjmh
Always sad to see RoW backers getting the shaft... hang in there SoB is a good time.
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Post by: Azazelx
 MangoMadness wrote:I certainly wouldn't put them in the same league, i believe ffg said in their last update that Aus was picked, packed and container was loaded and shipped.
RRT are still trying to hire a cartographer to draw them a map of where terra australis might lie.
I would. By FF's own words they didn't even bother starting to think about how to ship AU stuff until they were halfway through US shipments. Never mind the pre-shipping months before that which they could have used to examine their possibilities. That's pretty much the same as Palladium's half-arsed version.
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Post by: Morgan Vening
Azazelx wrote: MangoMadness wrote:I certainly wouldn't put them in the same league, i believe ffg said in their last update that Aus was picked, packed and container was loaded and shipped.
RRT are still trying to hire a cartographer to draw them a map of where terra australis might lie.
I would. By FF's own words they didn't even bother starting to think about how to ship AU stuff until they were halfway through US shipments. Never mind the pre-shipping months before that which they could have used to examine their possibilities. That's pretty much the same as Palladium's half-arsed version.
While I agree the planning was similar (though PB did have an additional 8 months of "supplementary time" from original ETD to actual), it appears that the execution is markedly different, with at last notices, as Mango said, FFP having sent theirs, and PB was still awaiting shipping quotes.
Doesn't excuse the initial problem, but I disagree they're in the same league. It'd take several more significant screwups from FFP before I shifted them from Poor to Bad to Worse to Worst to Palladi-esque.
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Post by: Azazelx
We'll have to agree to disagree. "Not as bad as Palladium" isn't exactly high praise, and while I'll agree that PB are worse, I'll still call them very much the same league with the same half-arsed attitude. FF are just somewhat more competent then PB.
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Post by: BobtheInquisitor
Are all of the miniatures plastic? Will wave 2 be plastic?
Sorry to bump this thread, but I had no idea they were using hard plastic. Does anyone have photos of the production minis?
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Post by: Bioptic
All of the miniatures in the base boxes are HIPS plastic, as far as we know all of the expansion models will also be plastic.
They don't photograph terribly well - the plastic has a sort of greasy sheen to it, and they do look substantially better when (decently) painted.They clearly made the decision late, after a lot of the sculpts had already been done, so detail is shallow in lots of places and the larger monsters have lots of gaps when assembled.
You can find some photos here:
http://boardgamegeek.com/images/boardgame/146791/shadows-brimstone-city-ancients/page/1
But there aren't many good ones of unpainted models. And the nicely painted ones have had gaps filled, edges highlighted to bring out detail, etc.
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Post by: BobtheInquisitor
Thank you for the pictures! Those look like an amazing product for hard plastic. I hope FLying Frog release plastic kits for people who want to make tabletop armies from them. I have been waiting so long for hard plastic Lovecraftian minis I'll certainly go wild if there is an option.
It just never occurred to me that a board game, especially a Flying Frog game, would use HIPS.
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Post by: Bioptic
Oh no no no...
Update #49:
Hello Brimstone Fans!
It's been a while since the last update because we were finally able to get back to development after months and months (and months) of packing orders, shipping orders, tracking down lost packages, replacing broken or missing components, etc. Honestly, it is an enormous amount of work and took much longer than expected. Unfortunately, this has set us back in the development, production, and playtesting of expansion material. Another team might just throw something in a box and send it out the door. But that's not our style. Shadows of Brimstone and its Expansions are a product line that will be sold in retail stores for years to come and we don't plan to sacrifice quality at this point! On to the update...
Australian Shipping Update
We have given many updates to Australian backers in email, Facebook, and in the Comments section of the Kickstarter, but here's the latest info. We packed all of the orders and sent them out a couple months ago. Union slow downs at the docks may have held things up a bit, but it's also a long trip by cargo ship around the world. In any case, we just got word from our Australian Distribution Partner (helping us with shipping to KS Backers) that the ship is arriving at the end of this week. After arrival in port, the container needs to go through customs (a week or so), and then our Australian Partners will process, label, and ship out games to the backers all over Australia. We are hopeful that all Australian backers will receive their Wave 1 shipments this month!
Miniatures Update
We are very excited that Shadows of Brimstone saw the release of our first hard plastic (hobby style) game miniatures. This was an important step for us as we wanted to create miniatures for the game that players could paint and customize - possibly swapping heads, arms, hats, weapons, or even adding mutations like a prehensile tail, eye stalks, or tentacle arms. It costs a fortune to tool steel molds for casting in hard plastic. While the results were very good for our first outing in the world of hard plastic hobby minis, we are always striving to get the best quality possible. In the last several months, we have been testing new factories all over China. There are mixed results. Many factories show samples that look great and after a couple months of working on a test model for us, it becomes clear that they did not create the samples that they showed and they do not have the skill to create quality figures. The good news is that we have found some promising new factories and methods and we are working on test minis right now for the next wave of figures.
Production Schedule
As we talked about in the intro to this update, handling of Wave 1 took way longer than we expected. As such, we are a bit behind in design, production, and testing on the Expansion material for the game. We know that everyone is excited to get more stuff for the game, but it is important that we maintain the quality that fans expect from Flying Frog Productions. We don't have any updated dates yet, but our updated estimate for Wave 1.5 is looking like Summer. Wave 2 will likely now be shifting to 1st quarter 2016. Production delays are something we work hard to try to avoid, but we would much rather give the expansions the time that they need to be great rather than rush them out.
I had...suspected that Flying Frog were a bit of a shambolic outfit, given their general attitude and style of communication. Although clearly I trusted them enough to throw in another $350 for a Minecart. They're announcing a 6 month delay from their already heavily-delayed estimate, to this time next year for delivery of the remaining content, because...the product designers, developers and managers....were busy hand-packing Kickstarter orders and chasing missing parts enquiries. I...what? What?
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Post by: Alpharius
And you KNOW "Q1 2016" really means "Q2 2016 MAYBE" or more likely "AFTER GENCON 2016 (but we'll totes have samples and some for sale then!)" due to....yes...CNY 2016.
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Post by: cincydooley
All those extras aren't coming for a while. I may have to add a track to my spreadsheet for Shadows extras right next to my "KS Projects Started after and Delivered before Kingdom Death" tracker...
A positive take away is that the update seems to make the allusion to the fact that the minis in the base games are pretty crappy, and that they've found a better place to make them......
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Post by: Alpharius
I certainly hope that's the case!
Though switching factories?
Projected (!) ship date of "Q1 2016"?
This one's got 'serious delay' written all over it - already!
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Post by: Nostromodamus
It's already a serious delay
I'm happy with what I have. The minis are ok and the game is hella fun. Plenty of other stuff I can play if I get bored of the core games before wave 2.
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Post by: Triple9
I was a little bit annoyed when they decided to not let the $1 pledges upgrade in the pledge manager, but I'm glad now that they didn't. I'm happy with the base game purchased at retail and a year+ from now there will be other, newer shinies to distract me.
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Post by: MangoMadness
Well as I am still waiting on the base games (soon precious soon) The delay for new content wont be as long for me as it will be for you guys who have been playing for....5? months now
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Post by: Azazelx
Oh Mango. It will be. Or even longer. Look at your flag and think about when your Wave 2 will arrive in relation to the important people they're talking to.
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Post by: usernamesareannoying
hi all.
can anyone tell me if the mine tiles are the same in both box sets?
of course the flip sides will be different, i was wondering about the mine side.
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Post by: Bromsy
I want to say there are differences, because there are unique mine rooms. I don't have my set here to check though.
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Post by: Azazelx
Huh. My Wave 1 arrived on Friday. I'll look through it in a few weeks. Too busy right now.
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Post by: Manchu
A friend bought this and we played a bit last Saturday night. It really renewed my faith in how much I could like a board game.
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Post by: Fireflyjmh
 usernamesareannoying wrote:hi all.
can anyone tell me if the mine tiles are the same in both box sets?
of course the flip sides will be different, i was wondering about the mine side.
There are a few (2-3 rooms) that are the same but for the most part each set is unique. I pulled the duplicate cards out of the mine deck so that you'd only encounter one particular room in a given mine.
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Post by: Forar
Decided to mix one of the Shadows of Brimstone pre-built map encounters with my Dwarven Forge Caverns tiles.
Gotta say, I'm pretty happy with the outcome.
1
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Post by: Alpharius
Forar - that is...spectacular!
Wow!
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Post by: highlord tamburlaine
That's mighty impressive.
Also impressive is the fact that there aren't piles and piles of tokens and cards clogging up the rest of the table!
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Post by: Forar
Oh, that's pre-built for a game tonight on a 5x5 space built by joining two folding tables and adding a 'star field' cloth I bought for X-Wing. And zoomed in on just the board; the player space is 'cropped out' as it were.
I'm sure the follow up pics will have piles of tokens and figures and whatnot all over the place.
Most of our games so far have been either Darkstone expeditions or 'rescue ______' treks, so I thought I'd try out another adventure type from the books.
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Post by: Forar
Follow up pics. Caught after the game as we sort of tore through the final encounter in the heat of the moment, but it was totally worth setting up. Thinking I might even have tiles arranged next time so I can do it on the fly. The 3-dimensionality aspect really adds to the experience of a game I already enjoy so very much. Next game should get the current crew near level 4/5, and Brutal enemies ought to be interesting. Mutations are starting to show up, and some solid upgrades are being found/bought.
Damn I love this game.
2
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Post by: Fireflyjmh
Great pictures!!
My buddy and I have played enough that the crew has leveled up and is running into Elite monsters... makes for some interesting games!
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Post by: Forar
Yeah, the randomness of elites (especially with they have 2 or even 3 abilities) can really change up what one expects from the creatures, along with their otherworld counterparts.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
Man those tiles look amazing. I wish they sold 'em separately.
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Post by: Fireflyjmh
http://www.bcwsupplies.com/card-sorting-tray
Might be useful for keeping the playing area tidy.
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Post by: Azazelx
Your games really do look great! A very impressive setup.
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Post by: highlord tamburlaine
From FFG's facebook page, from the GAMA show I'm assuming.
Trun look nice the Guardian looks big and beefy, but that Burrower? MY GOD that thing will be  huge! I wonder if it's a kit or what? I'm assuming so.
That was a 30 dollar add on too. Cthulhu was even more. Can't wait to see just how large he ends up!
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Post by: Fireflyjmh
Hopefully the details don't get as lost as they did on the first round of figures.
Thanks for posting these.
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Post by: timd
Thanks for posting!
Don't think that critter is going to get through that doorway without bring down the mine roof...
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Post by: Forar
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSBh7iTO-JU
They talk about Caverns of Cynder for the first half of this video.
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Post by: Bromsy
Forar wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSBh7iTO-JU
They talk about Caverns of Cynder for the first half of this video.
Nice, I am stoked.
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Post by: Alpharius
The latest here:
Update #53
Jun 16 2015
More Details of Wave 1.5, New Hero Preview, Caverns of Cynder Preview, Painting Events!
Hello Brimstone Gang!
We're just poking our heads up from the avalanche of work to let you know that we are making progress. Not dead, just dead tired. We have bitten off an enormous amount of design, development, art, and testing with all of the expansion material in the Stretch Goals and Add-Ons from the KS.
A new illustration of the Feral Vampires from veteran artist, Tom Baxa.
We are proud of the fact that, against the odds and without much sleep for several months, we delivered the Core Sets within a year of the KS ending. It is an unfortunate truth that many companies are using KS as more of a pre-order, rather than funding project development as it was intended. We say unfortunate, because it creates unrealistic expectations from backers - "Company "Y" sent out Game "X" 3 months after the KS ended, why can't you?!?" The truth is proper game development takes time, and when it is done right, you end up with a great game that will be enjoyed for years. That's what we do. We can't bring ourselves to shove something out the door prematurely because the wolves are at the gates growling.
Hence, we are overwhelmed, but trying hard to make amazing stuff that we know that people will enjoy once the dust settles. Any veterans of KS can tell you about many projects that were rushed and ended up completely disappointing. Many of us have backed several projects that had to come out with apologetic 2nd edition rulebooks and card sets to fix all of the broken material that was delivered. While development of our mountain of content is taking time, rest assured that we are not cutting corners and everyone will benefit from solid expansions.
That being said, we are currently still on track to deliver Wave 1.5 in early Fall...
What is Wave 1.5
First, let's be sure that everyone understands what Wave 1.5 is about. During the Pledge Manager, we offered an option for KS Backers to purchase an extra shipping wave (Wave 1.5) between Wave 1 (the actual Core Game Sets, KS Exclusive Outlaw, Paint Sets) and Wave 2 (Everything else, once every last bit is completed). The biggest two questions we receive about Wave 1.5 are "What will be in Wave 1.5?" and "Will you re-open Wave 1.5 so I can purchase that option?"
What Will be in Wave 1.5?
It's still too early to know exactly what will be contained in Wave 1.5. We have many miniature sets in production, but problems can crop up and we'll get a better picture as we get closer to the Fall. Right now, we estimate that it should include:
Caverns of Cynder OtherWorld Expansion
Lava Men
Expanded Frontier Town Expansion
Bandits
DarkStone Brutes (Minecart or Add-on)
The Guardian (Minecart or Add-on)
Trun Hunters (Add-on)
Sourge Rats
Serpentmen Warriors
Serpentmen Shaman
Void Sorcerers
Void Hounds
Doorways Set (Minecart or Add-on)
Trederran Raiders
Harvesters
The Burrower (Minecart or Add-on)
Dead Man's Bounty Game Supplement
Treasures of the Void Game Supplement
Badlands Expedition Game Supplement
Targa Artifacts Game Supplement (Add-on)
Jargono Artifacts Game Supplement (Add-on)
Cynder Artifacts Game Supplement (Add-on)
Blank Card Set: Threats (Add-on)
Blank Card Set: Mine (Add-on)
Blank Card Set: Jargono (Add-on)
Blank Card Set: Targa (Add-on)
Prospector Hero Class - with Male and Female Miniatures
Orphan Hero Class - with Male and Female Miniatures
Drifter Hero Class - with Male and Female Miniatures
Outlaw Hero Miniatures - Male and Female
Additional Enemy Sets
Additional Game Supplement Card Sets
The retail value of the items contained in Wave 1.5 is estimated at over $600! Please note that none of these items are set in stone. If a problem crops up with one of these items, it may not make it into Wave 1.5. We also know now that Wave 1.5 will not have any Mission Packs or OtherWorld Expansions beyond Caverns of Cynder.
Will you re-open Wave 1.5 so I can purchase that option?
I think everyone will agree that this seems like a no-brainer - people get stuff earlier and are even willing to pay for shipping to do it! But, it's not that obvious a decision. We have learned some hard lessons during this KS experience - we had to hire on many temporary workers during Wave 1 and it still took months to get all the orders out. Shipping within the EU is filled with difficulties that we did not foresee. Also, Wave 1.5 will be different for every backer - some are Minecart, some are Outlaw, some added Trun or a Guardian or a Burrower, others did not. So, each order will be unique. Long story short, we are planning to add Wave 1.5 shipping for purchase in the Web Store in September for $50 within the USA and $125 International.
We are planning to ship Wave 1.5 from the USA and the cost will cover shipping and hiring staff to process orders. We are currently estimating that Wave 1.5 could start shipping out sometime in October and we will begin with international orders to even out travel time.
Painting Events
One of the best ways to trick out your Brimstone game is to paint the miniatures. We've seen some awesome painted minis over the last several months from KS Backers and other fans of the game. Many fans have emailed us to say that they never painted figures before Shadows of Brimstone and they are really enjoying it!
At Flying Frog, we have all been gaming with miniatures and painting them for most of our lives and it gives us great joy to share this experience with others. It's also one of the reasons that we are so proud to have our own Shadows of Brimstone Paint Sets - we carefully selected/created all of the colors to give a full range for painting the miniatures from the game and its expansions.
We are excited to announce two upcoming Shadows of Brimstone Painting Events so that fans have a chance to show off their cool painted minis from the game!
The first will be at Gen Con at the Flying Frog Booth on August 1st in Indianapolis, IN. Pro Painter, Aaron Lovejoy, will be back again this year to share tips and tricks and help judge the event at the booth. The second painting event will be online in October and fans can send in photos of their miniatures (more details later). The categories for both the Gen Con and Online Events include:
Single Brimstone Hero - One Shadows of Brimstone Hero on a base. It must be an official Shadows of Brimstone miniature, but may be modified to alter the pose or add details (different weapons, different head or hat, etc).
Single Brimstone Creature - One Shadows of Brimstone Enemy on a base. It must be an official Shadows of Brimstone miniature, but may be modified to alter the pose or add details (extra horns, fur, etc).
Brimstone Bounty - This is sort of a catch all category that could include multiple miniatures on one base or diorama, or a grouping of Heroes or Monsters. It must include at least one official Shadows of Brimstone miniature, but may be modified to alter the pose or add details.
Best models shown in each category may win prizes including Flying Frog games, miniatures, or promo items not available in stores.
Caverns of Cynder Preview
The first major expansion for Shadows of Brimstone is being manufactured right now! Caverns of Cynder is the first of the OtherWorld Expansions which introduce a new world to explore. In the two Core Sets, players are introduced to the swamp world of Jargono and the frozen ancient alien city of the Targa Plateau. Cynder is an entirely new world featuring vast underground tunnels and chambers with ancient platforms marking paths across boiling magma.
A fiery dimension of lava and ash, the burning Caverns of Cynder are home to many dark and ancient evils, imprisoned within! Rivers of molten rock flow and pool into lakes of fire, forging fiendish Lava Men to assault any who dare cross over into their world. But there are also treasures to be found, gold and priceless artifacts pulled from across space and time to fill the vaults of Cynder, and the pockets of any traveler bold enough to seek them out!
The Caverns of Cynder Expansion introduces a brand new OtherWorld for the Heroes to explore! This includes a full set of 18 new Map Tiles depicting the fiery Caverns of Cynder, with dangerous new Lava Spaces that can burn the Heroes, and crumbling crust that can fall away under your feet! These Map Tiles also have an all new set of unique Mine rooms on the reverse, bringing more variety and new Encounters to discover throughout the Mines. All of the cards needed for this searing lava world are included, such as Cynder Encounters, Artifacts, Map Cards, OtherWorld Threats, and more, as well as a host of new cards for adventuring in the Mines!
6 New Missions will challenge your Heroes, as they hunker down to Defend the Bridge against hordes of attacking creatures, or race to seal Cracks in Reality that have opened up, threatening to tear the world apart! But beware, this new world is overrun with a deadly new Enemy - Lava Men, emerging from the fiery depths to destroy all that would set foot into the Caverns of Cynder!
Last Call for the Get It Now Offer
In April, we created a special offer called the "Get It Now!" Pack. It made four new Shadows of Brimstone Card Supplements available to backers early for the cost of shipping. This was very popular and many people took advantage of the offer. We will be removing the "Get It Now" offer from the web store at the end of June. So, if you want to get the offer, don't wait. Here is the link to these items in the Web Store: http://flyingfrogproductions.mybigcommerce.com/ks-backer-special/
Summer is coming...
We are working on our plans for Gen Con next month and will have another update in July with new enemy previews and more info about the big show. Besides the Shadows of Brimstone Painting Event, we have some exciting previews and games planned, and some surprises in store! We hope to see many of you at the Flying Frog Booth at Gen Con!
Cheers,
Scott and Jason
Whoa!
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Post by: Siygess
As much as I'd like to get more content for the game this year, $125 for shipping is loco. Oh well guess I will have to wait until Christmas 2016 or whenever wave 2 ships to see the rest of my stuff.
On the matter of the Caverns expansion, was it ever confirmed if backers would actually get the retail pack? I wouldn't normally ask this since retail usually happens at the same time or a little bit after KS delivery but are they honestly going to sit on thousands of bagged copies of Cynder (possibly with less content) for a year or more while they have stock of the retail boxes going through their warehouses to distributors?
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Post by: Bioptic
It would be a bit of a kick in the teeth if they were showing us box artwork for a box that we were never going to get, certainly! I'd have hoped that it made more sense to produce all of the boxes in a big production run, and set some aside for backers and others for retail. But who can tell.
I will say that Christmas 2016 seems optimistic, based on their track record. It took them a full year from funding to produce the base games. It will have taken them another full year to have produced wave 1.5, which only has one of the bigger expansions and none of the smaller ones (Town excepted). The vast majority of expansion content still remains after this, and I can't see how they can get that out inside of a year. I am not best pleased.
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Post by: Forar
I do hope that it's a retail copy as well. We got the core boxes in retail packaging, so hopefully that follows suit. Given that 1.5 seems to be things they intend to have at retail later this year, it'd make sense. I could see Wave 2, chalk full of things that might not hit stores until a year later or more being a bit prone to having plain cardboard packaging, especially if they start to fall behind (or due to lack of need, just slow down a bit) on the art assets.
Getting 5/10/15 retail boxes sorted out this year is one thing. Knocking out another 50+ in the following year seems less likely.
And yeah, that $125 for us international folks is definitely expensive, but is $25 more than last year really that much more a burden? For some it may well be (and with a hefty drop in the Canadian dollar, it's more like $35 Canadian extra), but it doesn't seem horrifically unreasonable to me. I mean, they could've chosen to just not offer the option up again. Surely a slightly more expensive version is better than not being able to join in at all?
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Post by: Siygess
I suppose it comes down to whether or not the Wave 1.5 stuff is in retail packaging or not. If it is, I can see the shipping boxes being the same size, weighing less, but requiring a lot more time to pack. I'm happy paying $125 for that.
But if the Wave 1.5 stuff is mostly plastic baggies then I don't know how I feel about getting a box that is half the size and weight of my Wave 1 stuff, but costs 25% more
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Post by: Forar
Yeah, and depending on the window of opportunity, it might not be a fully informed choice. Especially since I'm guessing we might get 1 or 2 more updates, depending on whether or not they have another lottery and need to update us on who is being called in, what'll be available, details on that stuff, etc.
Glancing at last year's updates, it seems they finalized the Gen Con pickup list about a week before the convention, and opened up for applications around 3 weeks prior. With less than 6 weeks until showtime, if it's going to happen I guess they'll want to start talking about it soon.
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Post by: warboss
Yikes, that's a hefty shipping charge. Was the kickstarter initially planned as multiple waves with separate ala carte shipping to be paid by backers or did it organically screw up into that?
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Post by: Alpharius
I can't be sure, but I think it all ended up growing wildly beyond expectations and planning to...what it is now.
I admit to forgetting about this one after the 2 core boxes shipped.
I was happy to hear that 'WAVE 1.5" would ship this...October, if you pay extra for it?
I'm...OK with that.
I'm more than a little concerned that "WAVE 2" (aka, "The Rest of The Stuff") has...no real projected ship date.
And there's a LOT of stuff that's in "WAVE 2".
And this one was originally scheduled to ship in August of 2014.
And it MIGHT ship complete in August of 2016 - if EVERYTHING goes right between now and then!
Forar - please correct me if any of those dates are (most likely) wrong!
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Post by: Forar
I think you've just about got it there.
I believe they've said Wave 2's target is 2016, which is an awfully large target range, but they have an awfully large pile of gak to do, so unlike a certain project, I can understand wanting a big margin for error.
If it lands by the end of next year, great. If it pushes into 2017, I'm not going to be particularly shocked.
In that regard, I empathize with the MC backers, because at least us Outlaws can justify buying some expansions at retail. It's possible some more opportunities like those card packs will open up for mid wave mini-shipments, which could become very expensive, but more manageable in smaller chunks every so often.
I guess we'll see. While I'd love for them to drop updates more than once every 4-6 weeks, at least there's some meat on those bones when they do, and they are producing things (core boxes did get made roughly on time, even though shipping wasn't exactly speedy, we have seen prototypes of other stuff that seems to be on par for being ready in the next few months, etc).
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Post by: Bioptic
It's odd - I've actually defended Mantic in the past for shipping models in little bags rather than the obscenely large and nice CMON boxes (where there is more plastic and weight in the packaging than in the models), but I'm getting rather bummed out by the prospect of all of this Shadows stuff arriving in one big pile of loose sprues.
They've already revealed that some retail versions of the various expansion will come with extra content (the doorways set comes with an additional deck of cards not included in the original Kickstarter or the Minecart pledge).
Outside of Kickstarter, I'm seriously wondering who the target market for this is. They decided to go for hard plastic presumably so that mass production would be cheaper, but aside from quality issues this means that the product primarily appeals to:
- those looking to spend around $1000-$1500 on a boardgame.
- those looking to spend $30-$50 at a time on a few extra monsters for their dungeon crawl.
- those completely happy with clipping and assembling their boardgaming models.
I might well be wrong though, and once a few expansions hit the game might be meaty enough to enjoy huge success. I suppose that's the mildly insane thing about Kickstarter though - you can end up creating reams and reams of expansion content for a base game that people might not enjoy or might not sell well.
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Post by: ced1106
Another possibility is that they release another version, say another core set that has pre-assembled miniatures. That's what Super Dungeon Explore: Forgotten Kings did. I also noticed two 3rd edition boardgames on KS in the last two days, of games that haven't been out for more than two years or something. SoB is *really* popular on BGG, so maybe they'll steer the product line towards boardgamers.
Have they shown an improvement in the miniatures?
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Post by: Alpharius
Bioptic wrote:
Outside of Kickstarter, I'm seriously wondering who the target market for this is.
You know, I've never really thought about that since I went in at "Minecart" here - but that is a really, really good question!
I also didn't remember the announcement that this thing wouldn't deliver complete until August of 2016.
Sheesh.
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Post by: Forar
They didn't give an exact target, but they did note near the end of the campaign (or shortly after it ended) that this was literally years worth of content being lined up.
And yes, their initial estimates were significantly shorter originally (1.5 early this year, 2 around the end of this year), but at least they are updating us.
It won't sate everyone, I know, but it's not like they doubled down the day after the campaign finished exploding and suggested it might be done early. >.>
Sheesh RRT really has driven my expectations down.
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Post by: Alpharius
Ah well - what can we do right?
Also, that 'Joshua' character in the comments sections of apparently every Kickstarter project ever?
WTF?
What a Goal Post Moving/My Mood Changes Depending on the Project/Did he really say "F' You all Because I'm awesome and have a hot wife"? guy - is he for real or just some sort of weird KS Professional Troll?
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Post by: Forar
I don't know what that dude's problem is.
At least part of it seems to be based on his ability to resell. He (allegedly) sold a pile of RRT stuff, going as far as buying other people's pledges up and selling those off as well, and going on the ebay prices for Battle Cry packs and Wave One auctions, he probably did pretty well for himself at the time.
SoB he apparently pledged $1, hoping to get in during the pledge manager, and was quite perturbed when the PM happened and the $1 backers couldn't get anything (or was it they could only get a single tier?). Either way, they couldn't get multiple packs, and it was gnawing at him for weeks.
He's very much one of those 'only things I think are important are worth worrying about, everyone else is a whiny entitled crybaby' types, who are simply obnoxious in Comments sections.
Personally, even if something isn't important to me, I can recognize that it's important to others. I might try to sway their view as to how much emphasis a given issue is really worth giving, but I wouldn't dream of telling them they're not allowed to be angry/annoyed/frustrated.
If nothing else, that's generally a good way to piss them off further, making it seem he's more content to troll than to actually converse.
As I recall, the whole 'hot wife' thing started with him making fun of Rick's (of RRT fame) profile pic, which led to some snooping on his own info, and led to this piece of work;
"Based on my profile pics, did you honestly think you could some how make me feel bad about my personal life??? Lets see, hot wife, I live comfortable and never have to leave the house... What could you possibly have on me that would make me give a crap? Let me give you a hint, there is nothing... TRY HARDER!"
While he's had moments of lucidity (jerk as he is, he was also the first person to hook me up with a pic of the map my friends ended up on (in name)), ever since we first crossed paths a good 2 years ago in RRT, he's always been kind of a jerk.
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Post by: Alpharius
Is 'Joshua' only in for a dollar, and is trolling the KS Comments because he wasn't able to upgrade in the PM?
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Post by: rayphoton
I had to go read the ks comments just to see who this josh guy was. I'm impressed with his level of vitriol and high dickery.
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Post by: Joyboozer
I think he's hot!
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Post by: Alpharius
He's the very antithesis of 'polite' and 'considerate' and just goes to underscore what a joke the Kickstarter comments section are in terms of utility and moderation.
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Post by: Fireflyjmh
 Alpharius wrote:He's the very antithesis of 'polite' and 'considerate' and just goes to underscore what a joke the Kickstarter comments section are in terms of utility and moderation.
Glad I wasn't the only one who thought that....
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Post by: Forar
A bunch of pictures from Gencon, including my submission to the painting competition (a diorama using more Dwarven Forge tiles), some other entries, the 3D Targa table, the Cynder loot game, and new figures!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
And for those that were concerned about assembly, it seems they've listened.
The Cynder Lavamen are a single piece. The hell vermin and swamp slugs were 2 pieces each.
The Trun Hunters are more (9 pieces, but you only build 3 of them), and the Guardian is a sizable amount of pieces/plastic, but all told most of the figures I assembled were pretty straightforward.
Can't wait to build the Burrower tonight. That thing is *huge*, has a mission included with it, and throws a lot of stuff on its head.
Also the Guardians are terrifying.
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Post by: Alpharius
So...did you win?
Thanks for the pictures!
Did you get a chance to try out the new expansion (Cinder)?
And if so - what do you think?
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Post by: cincydooley
I opened my copy of Cinder and I was reminded of two things:
1 - The card components are really solid and the game genuinely does look interesting to me.
2 - I continue to be really, really underwhelmed by the miniatures.
Picking up Cinder, and realizing how much more I have coming, makes me consider getting a base box again....but I haven't been able to commit yet.....
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Post by: Alpharius
I think a decent/good painter can make the current minis 'shine' enough to be more than OK.
And HOPEFULLY the next wave of stuff will have a bit sharper detail.
I really like the game and the theme, so I'm in for the long haul!
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Post by: cincydooley
Alpharius wrote:I think a decent/good painter can make the current minis 'shine' enough to be more than OK.
And HOPEFULLY the next wave of stuff will have a bit sharper detail.
I really like the game and the theme, so I'm in for the long haul!
Agreed. Lovejoy has certainly shown that.
It does look like the quality of some of the new models they had on display is superior.
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Post by: Forar
Alpharius wrote:So...did you win? Thanks for the pictures! Did you get a chance to try out the new expansion (Cinder)? And if so - what do you think?
They gave out prizes, I'm not sure if I 'won', if it was more of a participation reward, or if it was going to be the former and became the latter due to a seemingly low number of entries (I think for dioramas it was just me and the Slasher on an incredible base). Either way, it was a very pleasant surprise to receive some extra loot! The entries all looked good to me, and I especially liked the bone/grey Harbinger. I'm way behind on painting, but look forward to seeing what I can do with mine. I picked up (from the line or purchased) the following stuff: - Cynder (from the lineup, Lavamen are a single piece) + Artifact Expansion - Doorways Into Darkness (15 card mini expansion, 5 gear, 5 mine encounters, 5 darkness, doors are all a single piece and feel hefty). - Hell Vermin (2 piece two headed rats, Large enemies) - Swamp Slugs (2 piece slugs, Large) - Darkstone Brutes (haven't assembled yet, Large) - Trun Hunters (9 pieces, I think, also Large) - Guardian (high piece count and poseability on this one) - Burrower (haven't assembled yet, but it's HUGE) Basically all the stuff they had that I wouldn't be getting with my Outlaw pledge (like the Serpentmen and Masters of the Void) Initial impressions are that the quality is acceptable for my level of skill and interest, and they seem to have taken the complaints of parts counts/assembly to heart. Experienced modelers might not like it, and I'm sure there's always room for improvement, but at least the bitching about having to assemble figures should be reduced for much of what I've seen. They mentioned the Serpentmen having some build variety (different weapons and whatnot), so there may still be some packs out there that take a while to put together, but I'm liking what I've seen. Assembled most of the stuff over the last few days, the Guardian is resting in a bunch of pieces with small clamps to keep them tight, further assembly of that tonight, likely along with the Burrower and the Brutes. I haven't had a chance to play with Cynder yet, but I've liked what I've seen at a glance, and from the loot crawl, I can say that lavamen are indeed dangerous. The new mechanics all have potential, and adding 6 more missions (and another with the Burrower) also add to the backlog to chew through over the coming months. When I talked to various staff (including the Hills and some others), there was a real sense of passion for the game. I expressed an appreciation for the 'roughly monthly update schedule', asked about wave 1.5 (hopefully October was what I heard, Fall in general seems to be the common response from others I've seen chatting about it), and things should begin getting to retail in the next couple of months. They were all highly engaging, pleasant to chat with, and really supportive of my willingness to eat up an entire floor of their display case.
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Post by: pancakeonions
A friend of mine managed to pick up Cinder as part of his Wave 1.5 during GenCon (day 1, he was the first guy in line when they ran out... day 2, he got there a lot earlier and got one!)
Any updates on enemies that shoot? That was one big mechanic that wasn't introduced in either base set. I'm curious to see how battling the undead gunslinger or the trederran legionnaires might mix things up a bit.
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Post by: streamdragon
My sister got me the Swamps of Death starter for my birthday. I've seen the game and love everything else Flying Frog so I had it up on my wishlist on Amazon, but I haven't actually looked into it deeply. Is it basically like a Descent / Imperial Assault esque game? I'm still reading through the rulebook and will probably give a solo run a try this weekend to get a feel for the game.
edit: quick question, are there any "must have" supplement purchases? I figure I'll probably order the variant figures from their site, if they're available (can't check at work).
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Post by: pancakeonions
I reckon you could say it's akin to Descent, with one (very big) difference: it's fully coop. You're playing against the game, rather than against another player.
Right now the only supplemental purchase is the other core set, City of the Ancients. New stuff should be coming out in a few months. Kickstarter backers should get their next shipment in November, I think? I'm guessing they really want that stuff to be available at retail for Xmas, so if you love the game, I'm afraid you're in for a bit of a wait....
Solution: decide to paint your set. Take 6 months to do it. When you get in your first game (because you certainly wouldn't play it unpainted, would you?) and love it, hooray, you'll have more options to supplement it with!
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Post by: Forar
Personally, I found the two core sets to provide a significant amount of variety. Between them they have 18 quests (some more unique than others, granted), 8 PC character classes, some decent enemy variety (when including Elite abilities and combinations of things to fight and kill/die at the hands and claws of) and some really solid thematic and gameplay mechanics.
If you really enjoy Swamps of Death, the obvious follow up is City of the Ancients.
Aside from that, there isn't much at retail for now, but I've gotten a couple dozen games in with my friends in the last 8-9 months, and it has always been a blast.
If you're just getting into it now, you're only a couple of months away (hopefully) from some stuff starting to land at retail, which will open up some options.
From those, I'd lean towards sets with Small/Medium/Large enemies; the XL/XXL figures are great (I'm building two of them from Gencon as it is), but as the "End Boss" figures, you'll probably see the others more often, making the variety more obvious.
Cynder only adds one new Large figure type, but there seems to be some awesome mechanics to include. I haven't played it yet, though I did watch the Loot Crawl this year, and I can't wait for it to hit the table. My crew needs to hit Cynder, and to hunt the Burrower, and etc, etc, etc!
But I admit my bias; I am a huge fan of the game, how it plays, and how much fun my friends and I have had with it.
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Post by: Azazelx
Alpharius wrote:I think a decent/good painter can make the current minis 'shine' enough to be more than OK.
And HOPEFULLY the next wave of stuff will have a bit sharper detail.
I really like the game and the theme, so I'm in for the long haul!
With their fulfilment speed, we're all in for the long haul!
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Post by: streamdragon
Damn, so the alternate models aren't available? Are they KS exclusive and never coming to retail? Shotgun Nun and Lady Lawman are kind of high on my list.
Good to know I'm not super far behind though.
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Post by: Nostromodamus
They will come to retail, but backers have barely any of the content yet, let alone anyone else.
It will be a while before much of the SG/Add-on list will be available for purchase. Pretty much only the core sets are available at the moment.
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Post by: Alpharius
Yeah, IF were very lucky we'll have everything owed us by this time NEXT year.
GENCON 2016.
Maybe.
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Post by: Azazelx
Yeah, given the complete lack of movement or communication on the fulfilment front, I think 2017 is probably more likely.
How bloody sad is that?
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Post by: rayphoton
Azazelx wrote:Yeah, given the complete lack of movement or communication on the fulfilment front, I think 2017 is probably more likely.
How bloody sad is that?
Well..yes it is sad. However if you were "lucky" enough to have gotten in on raging heroes toughest girls KS...well...its been 2 years and that STILL hasn't fulfilled. So...it could be worse
Heroquest 25th is delayed...the rest of cthulu wars.....
Kickstarters are like guide books on how to become zen......
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Post by: streamdragon
Oof, had no idea Flying Frog was that far behind. I guess I shouldn't be surprised since Blood in the Forest was what, a full year late?
Glad to hear the alternate models will eventually be available though.
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Post by: Forar
Hopeful as I am, I certainly wouldn't bet hard money on a 2016 delivery, but they put out the core boxes within 1 year, wave 1.5 will apparently start coming online within a year after that (hopefully backers will get theirs around Oct/Nov and stuff will start showing at retail), and a year more for 2 more Otherworlds, several mission packs, and another pile of figures (granted, some are just 'alt art' versions) seems pretty reasonable.
It's easy to roll ones eyes and say "oh yes, another Kickstarter is late, because of course they are", but unlike many of the horror stories, let's not overlook that at least some of this gak exists, and more is appearing.
I'd rather have this ongoing progress (new things appearing in art and renders and prototypes over the months) than, say, the gakshow that is Palladium's campaign, which delivered their wave one a year late, and may take 2+ more to deliver the remnant.
Maybe my bias just makes me an appologist, and believe me I wish the communication were a touch more regular/frequent (a solid update once a month would generally suit me, considering that they do pack in some details as to what is going on).
If nothing else, according to a guy on the KS comments, the vast majority of the figures have been seen as a render, prototype, or plastic at this point. While finalizing and punching plastic certainly takes time, at least there's a light at the end of the tunnel.
It'd be nice if it wasn't 12-18+ months away, but in the sense of "Good, Fast, Cheap, you're lucky if you get two", it's good (imo) and backers got a pretty damned fine deal, so I can accept it won't be particularly fast.
Wave 1.5 was originally aimed around Q1 or Q2 this year, so Q3 or Q4 is indeed a push back, but it's not like they've spent the last two years sitting on their hands either.
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Post by: cincydooley
And here's the rub:
Imagine how different the perception would be if they had done it a little differently.
Let's say KS1 is the Starter boxes and Cynder (with everything involved with Cynder).
They'd have delivered mostly on time for the first portion, and then have had Cynder be a bit late (and perhaps less so with a smaller scope).
Then, once Cynder has shipped, they KS the rest of it in a second project, as a 'phase 2.'
Their reputation is stronger, because they delivered successfully and in a reasonable amount of time. And a 2nd KS would have blown up. AND you get to check a box off, saying "we've successfully delivered on another KS."
As it stands....this thing may drag on for another year.....
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Post by: Forar
I specifically brought up having perhaps bitten off a bit more than they could chew when I talked to various staff (including the Hills) at Gencon. They were happy with their progress, hopeful about the future, but recognized that there were a lot of moving parts and places where things could get hung up.
It's definitely becoming something I appreciate, when campaigns set a reasonable goal that fits within their time line, and then know when to hold off.
But that ship sailed two years ago, so now I'm just hoping that we have final delivery in 2016 (or at least packages are going out).
More 'wave 1.x' deals like the little card batch and some of the leftover Gencon stock can also help tide things over. It's not perfect, but it's something.
Obviously the lions share of the control is with the creators, make no mistake, but it'd help if the KS / Stretch Goal system didn't lead to people egging said creators on for more and more gak. Much like Creators love the ever growing money mountain that rolls in, backers sure love watching the pile of 'loot' expand.
It's generally only with the benefit of hindsight that dawning horror of just how much there is to do really sets in.
Next big campaign I'm in will definitely get a 'talking down' of sorts. Unless it's Dwarven Forge. Or Reaper. They seem to mostly have this thing in hand.
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Post by: rayphoton
Forar wrote:I
Next big campaign I'm in will definitely get a 'talking down' of sorts. Unless it's Dwarven Forge. Or Reaper. They seem to mostly have this thing in hand.
Or CMON.....they seem to have ks down to a science
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Post by: ced1106
Forar wrote:But I admit my bias; I am a huge fan of the game, how it plays, and how much fun my friends and I have had with it.
Hey, that's important, too!
Looks like the wait includes improving the quality of the miniatures : https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1415205/latest-print-run-base-sets-miniature-quality
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Post by: Alpharius
Workblocked!
What's the review say?
If it is that the quality is better now - that's good news.
But kind of sad/upsetting for those of us that already have the sets in hand.
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Post by: Nostromodamus
Basically what we already knew via the KS updates; they switched manufacturer and sculpted deeper details so future models should look nicer.
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Post by: cincydooley
 Alex C wrote:Basically what we already knew via the KS updates; they switched manufacturer and sculpted deeper details so future models should look nicer.
The cynder ones do appear to be a bit cleaner than the previous sets.
They're still not GREAT.... but they're solid enough.
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Post by: Alpharius
Ah - well that's good news!
Going *forward* we'll see sharper detail!
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Post by: cincydooley
Alpharius wrote:Ah - well that's good news!
Going *forward* we'll see sharper detail!
They are one piece, so that was a pretty pleasant surprise.
I'm fine with green stuffing and assembly, but I know there was some HUGE negative feedback about it from the boardgame crowd.
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Post by: Azazelx
 rayphoton wrote: Azazelx wrote:Yeah, given the complete lack of movement or communication on the fulfilment front, I think 2017 is probably more likely.
How bloody sad is that?
Well..yes it is sad. However if you were "lucky" enough to have gotten in on raging heroes toughest girls KS...well...its been 2 years and that STILL hasn't fulfilled. So...it could be worse
Heroquest 25th is delayed...the rest of cthulu wars.....
Kickstarters are like guide books on how to become zen......
Yep, I'm still waiting on my complete TGG, Cthulhu Wars, Trollforged, Journey and many more. Not that others being late exactly excuses Flying Frog... Automatically Appended Next Post:
Joel Flamme
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VonMeister wrote:
Found some interesting new comments on this topic in a recent GenCon 2015 interview with Scott Hill:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FuE3NJ3AvAA
He starts talking about the miniatures process at around 4:53
At approximately 6:00 - he mentions (and I'm nearly quoting here) that they did a new sculpting pass on all the figures that were already done.
Makes me really curious now to see the most recent print run of SoBS (base games).
Scott was talking about figures where the 3D sculpt had been completed, but the mold hadn't been created yet. For example, with the Trun, they went back and really exaggerated the teeth and horns so that those details would show up on the final model. As far as I know, the sculpts (and molds) have not been re-visited for figures that have already been manufactured (the two core sets).
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Post by: streamdragon
Ran into an issue I'm hoping someone can help with before I try to pitch the game to my friends.
Playing solo but with 4 characters (to get a feel for each one). I ran into an issue where the Indian Scout (I5) revealed a new room (with 3 other possible connections), and so an Exploration token.
At I4, the Lawman rolled high enough movement to make it to a jigsaw piece on this new room tile, and thus could "peer through the door" to find another room. The problem is that I had no way to know if the jigsaw he was at was even an actual door. After all, the Exploration token hadn't been revealed so I had no idea how many doors there were (and if the connection he was standing on was even an actual door).
Is there something I'm missing? I mean, in the "A Fistful of Darkstone" mission, when you find the last Clue room it always has 0 exists. But again, those tokens aren't revealed until AFTER all models have activated.
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Post by: Forar
I glanced through the Rule Book pdf, and I don't think it covers trying to look through two areas back to back like that. Maybe in the FAQ, but that's in the adventure book, which they didn't publish to the web. Anyway, from my game experiences, I'd look at this two ways; One, most rooms (unless they end up being the final room or other mission specific rules are in play) will have one or more exits, meaning you could just pull another map card and place the tile there, declaring that an exit (then randomly determining others if more exits exist. Now, this does hit on another issue where the only exit might be a gate. This is further compounded by flipping 2 exploration tokens at once, especially since the party will be, by definition, at least a little split up. Rules as written, I'd lean towards not being able to open another room off a room with an unflipped token. As a house rule or personal choice, assuming it's unlikely to cause the end of the mission (need 3 exploration tokens and have zero), I don't see a problem with it, beyond possibly overwhelming the group with a slew of encounters and fights simultaneously. I suspect the idea is to pop new rooms one at a time to avoid this from happening, but if you're feeling daring, you could always go for it. At least it's not as bad an idea as splitting up the party to intentionally explore two separate areas at once. That is definitely asking for trouble.
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Post by: streamdragon
Decided to email Flying Frog and they got back to me real quick:
As for your Shadows of Brimstone Rules Question, the intent is that you are not allowed to Search (Scavenge or Look Through a Doorway) during a Fight or while there is an Exploration Token on your Map Tile.
This means that when you Look Through a Doorway and place a Room Map Tile that has an Exploration Token on it, other Heroes can continue to move into that Room, but they are not allowed to Search in that Room until after the Exploration Token has been revealed and any Fight there has been completed. This is mainly because you don't know which doors are 'real' until the Exploration Token has been revealed.
So basically you can't Search on a tile with an Exploration token at all, not even to Scavenge.
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Post by: Forar
Makes sense.
Searching other passages or for loot/treasure in a room that (for all the group knows) is packed to the brim with monsters, dynamite and other nastiness isn't a very good idea.
Plus it'd take some serious cojones to pop two exploration tokens at once.
My group has done it, but generally either under duress or just showing off a little. It's... unwise.
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Post by: Forar
Cross posted from the KS comments:
Played my first game with Cynder and the other new packs I picked up, and it also happened to be our first game with Brutal enemies.
Holy hell was it insane. Only 4 rooms past the start (2 to get the Gate to Cynder for our mission, 2 in Cynder itself) but it was intense. The new enemies were all awesome (we stripped out most of the cards that were just older foes so we could seem the new ones in action).
Our final battle was a level 5 Marshall, level 4 Indian Scout and level 3 Outlaw against The Burrower, 9 Hungry Dead (due to a triggered Darkness Card off a Growing Dread), 5 Tentacles (both groups in ambush), and a Swamp Slug (what the hell is that thing doing in here!?
The opening volley included intentionally calling a dynamite artillery strike onto my position, and by the end the Outlaw had to level up to 4 (to clear out damage), we'd spent every last bit of healing we had on hand, used our revive token, and all but 3 side bag tokens.
It got intense. Our lantern bearer kept rolling double 2's, through the night, while a small board we kept getting stuck fighting through the rooms like we were clearing houses in a war zone, and when we saw the final encounter before us, we decided it was time to put aside our current drinks for 'a shot of the good stuff'.
It was amazing.
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Post by: streamdragon
Played 3 different adventures with my friends over the weekend. We did the starter "Fist Full of Dark Stone", an "Explore the Mine", followed finally (and fittingly) by "Blow up the Mine".
My rancher ended the night with a Soul Parasite, Two Heads and a Tentacle Tongue (or possibly two tentacle tongues, given the two heads?)
It was a hilarious night where we all hit level 2, though I feel a bit bad for the Preacher who seems to struggle due to the low Initiative making it hard to get those melee hits in.
The point was raised that it's slightly strange for a full on co-op game to have individual XP the way that Brimstone does; I'm inclined to agree. Then again, it's a board game and not a full fledged RPG. I dunno. I guess part of the "full co-op" is that we should be setting up kills for the lower Initiative folks to keep them on par.
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Post by: Forar
It'd be easy enough to simply pool all the exp and divvy it out equally at the end of each fight. You could also do it at the end of a session, but being able to level up during a run to become more powerful and shed wound/sanity tokens/recover a grit.
Splitting per round feels like the smoothest gradiation, but also defeats a lot of the time and math saving that would be otherwise found.
The lower initiative characters falling a bit behind in exp was something that they noticed during playtesting, according to threads on BGG, and loot cards getting exp was one of the things included to reduce the disparity (raising the bar to guarantee everyone advancing at least a little per fight). Several of the new monsters also have abilities that all but guarantee that 'blowing them up' won't be quite as effective or even possible, in the way that a lucky crit and stacking a few abilities can lead to wiping a Night Terror off the map.
But yeah, I'd be interested to hear how people feel pooled exp worked out. As a friend has noted, it might reduce the interest in some of the exp generating abilities, but that's only from the perspective of it helping everyone a little instead of one person a lot, and the goal is of course to keep everyone on the same rough level, so it's still an ongoing contribution.
Worst case scenario, if the Preacher falls too far behind (like, a full level eventually) you could always start up a pair of new characters for a run, and have him as the highest leveled character. He gets to feel like the geared up badass, and the others get the challenge of surviving against advanced enemies with minimal stuff on hand.
Or, since it's a co-op game, just bump him up a thousand exp for the rousing sermons he delivers every sunday in town. It's not like FFP will come to your house and set your board on fire if you don't perfectly adhere to the experience generating system. But with the way the exp chart is laid out, I can't see people who game together regularly having much more than a 1 level disparity, barring some tragic shenanigans.
I believe some have also suggested letting the Preacher cast a Blessing per turn as a free action, since healing generates exp, though this could make the team a bit too hardy (easy healing makes it that much harder to threaten the players, obviously).
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Post by: Goremaul
I'm surprised that your preacher's been falling behind. In our current group (level 4, 5 characters) my Nun is about 1k xp ahead of everyone else. That's mainly from casting blessings each turn. You're recording the xp for casting the blessings, as well as the extra xp for healing other party members (5 per damage healed), right?
We've been really temped to do the pooling of xp as well. I'm not sure that it'll fully help the times when monsters are placed and our trigger happy Gunslinger slaughters them all before they attack, but it might help.
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Post by: streamdragon
So I ordered City of the Ancients and I've been looking through it. What I haven't been able to find are any spelled out rules for combining the two sets, is there something I'm missing?
For Other World threats the answer seems fairly obvious: keep them in separate piles since which Other World you're in determines which deck to draw from. Same with Other World Encounters, they're already separated by World.
But Threat Decks? Do you guys just combine them (by threat level, naturally) into big decks with both cards? Mine cards? Mine Artifacts? Mine Encounters? Growing Dread? Darkness?
The Scavenge piles aren't identical (I'd say CotA's is more brutal, given there are 2 "Draw a Darkness card" in place of 2 "Draw a Gear card"), do you combine them?
Loot piles ARE identical, do you combine them? I would think so given if you have 6 players you would need to do so if there were 3 Threat cards adding monsters (thus allowing each player to draw 3 cards).
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Post by: Goremaul
Threat decks, gear, darkness cards, ect. are combined I believe (we did anyways). Loot cards are -not- combined (it throws off the "loot tables" if you will) and if you need more than 12 loot in a run, just divvy them out, then reshuffle for the remaining ones.
I haven't combined the scavenge cards personally, but I also didn't realize the two decks were separate there...
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Post by: Bromsy
I combined everything that was combineable.
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Post by: streamdragon
Goremaul wrote:Threat decks, gear, darkness cards, ect. are combined I believe (we did anyways). Loot cards are -not- combined (it throws off the "loot tables" if you will) and if you need more than 12 loot in a run, just divvy them out, then reshuffle for the remaining ones.
I haven't combined the scavenge cards personally, but I also didn't realize the two decks were separate there...
In a fit of curiosity and boredom I compared most of the decks.
The Gear decks have plenty of directly identical cards (mostly ones that give side bag tokens, but also pistol, journal pages and a few others), some analogous cards: void pistol/sword and hellfire pistol/sword, and then 4 cards per set that are completely stand alone.
Darkness cards pretty much fit the "theme": SoD has cards that boost Undead while CotA boosts Demons. (Which makes sense as there are no undead enemies in CotA).
Long story short, most of the decks are fairly close to one another, except that mean, mean Scavenge deck for CotA. Of course, SoD has the Growing Dread card that permanently lowers Sanity, so I guess overall the balance works out.
Loot decks, being identical, don't really "throw off the loot table" to me, since the overall ratio of money to darkstone to artifacts to gear stays the same. The real difference might be that you could have a team draw two artifacts in one go instead of just one, which I don't see as a big deal.
Bromsy wrote:I combined everything that was combineable.
I think that's what I'm going with. Especially with Cinder being released recently, along with the GenCon stuff like the Bounty gear set, I just don't see another way.
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Post by: Forar
 streamdragon wrote:Long story short, most of the decks are fairly close to one another, except that mean, mean Scavenge deck for CotA. Of course, SoD has the Growing Dread card that permanently lowers Sanity, so I guess overall the balance works out.
Loot decks, being identical, don't really "throw off the loot table" to me, since the overall ratio of money to darkstone to artifacts to gear stays the same. The real difference might be that you could have a team draw two artifacts in one go instead of just one, which I don't see as a big deal.
It also makes it possible to draw 0 artifacts when one would normally be guaranteed one.
You could argue that these two possibilities should roughly balance out, I just prefer keeping it as a single deck. For up to 4 players it works perfectly, and the 'deal, gather and shuffle, re-deal' approach works for larger groups.
Look at it this way; with 6 players using the standard (12) card approach, you're guaranteed an artifact on any encounter that deals 2 loot per player, and have good odds on a second with a 3 card fight.
With 24, you could draw 2 artifacts on a 1 loot card fight, or 0 on a 3 loot card fight.
In Otherworlds this becomes even more swingy/pronounced.
If it works for the group, go with it, but unless one was playing with 5 or 6 players, I wouldn't bother mixing them. It's like adding Diablo RNG to things; maybe you hit it big, maybe you spend the afternoon wondering where all the damned Artifacts are.
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Post by: timd
Any word on when the Wave 1.5 shipping option might show up on the web site? Not seeing anything....
T
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Post by: Forar
They've been quoted on the KS comments that they were looking to have it live in October.
On one hand, I'd love to see them fire it up (and begin shipping out to backers asap), on the other hand, each day and week that passes has a chance of being an opportunity to add more stuff to what will arrive in that box.
But with the holidays looming, yeah, hopefully it's soon.
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Post by: 455_PWR
As an original minecart backer and original 1.5 shipping buyer... I will not be happy if they open the 1.5 shipping again. Some of us paid extra for this when it was first offered so we could get our items sooner. It was supposed to be this past spring, which became summer, which became October, now God knows when. If they open the 1.5 shipping again, this only means that we will not see our 1.5 items until next year as it will bring more delays (they have to produce and ship more product).
Stop the delays, ship those of us who coughed up the money many moons ago our next half please.
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Post by: Alpharius
Can someone remind me what was in the "Shadows of Brimstone: Kickstarter Backer Get It Now Pack"?
I bought it, misplaced it, and now will most likely have to buy it again - whatever 'it' was! 
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Post by: pancakeonions
Just so long as they *do* open their KS store (or whatever they call it) so we can add the Devil Slug and the Two Headed Doggie Rat secret monster packs.
If they have the gall to use their valuable time to make and playtest new SoB items that were not in the KS, then they durn well better give us SoB freaks the option of picking them up post haste! Automatically Appended Next Post: Alpharius wrote:Can someone remind me what was in the "Shadows of Brimstone: Kickstarter Backer Get It Now Pack"?
I bought it, misplaced it, and now will most likely have to buy it again - whatever 'it' was!
I have no idea... Can you remind us what that even was? And when? And how'd you get it?
Is that something that's coming in Wave 1.5, but you slept with someone who let you order it early, you dirty dog, you?
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Post by: Alpharius
It was just a chance to get some card sets early - artifacts and items maybe?
Honestly, I can't remember...
But I bet it is in one of the updates...hold on!
EDIT:
Yup!
Last Call for the Get It Now Offer
In April, we created a special offer called the "Get It Now!" Pack. It made four new Shadows of Brimstone Card Supplements available to backers early for the cost of shipping. This was very popular and many people took advantage of the offer. We will be removing the "Get It Now" offer from the web store at the end of June. So, if you want to get the offer, don't wait. Here is the link to these items in the Web Store: http://flyingfrogproductions.mybigcommerce.com/ks-backer-special/
We closed the last update with the hint of a surprise in the next update. We are so happy that people around the globe are now adventuring in the mines of Brimstone and beyond! But, we know that people want more, need more. More goodies to add to their games and keep it fresh. While we've had delays with the miniatures (as we found new factories to work with and new production techniques to increase the detail in the plastics), we do have some printed material ready now - four 15-card Game Supplements that can give your games an injection of new cards! For any Kickstarter Backers that want these cards NOW, we are making a special "Get it Now" Offer where you can simply pay a small shipping and handling cost (should not be much for a handful of card sets) and get that part of your order now. More details below...
The Card Supplements that are ready include:
Dead Man’s Bounty (included in the Stretch Goals)- The deserts and mines near the ruins of Brimstone are harsh and unforgiving, made only more so by the cutthroat and backstabbing nature of the outlaws and gangs that reside there. Often times, one man’s treasure is another man’s dead body. This 15 card supplement adds a collection of all new Gear for Shadows of Brimstone, themed around items found on the bodies of outlaws and prospectors betrayed by their companions and left for dead.
Treasures of the Void (included in the Stretch Goals)- The vastness of the cosmos and the Void between space and time are home to treasures unimaginable to the Human mind. Sometimes these magical forces are bound within amulets and rings by unknown intelligence with a mastery of sorcery too dark and terrible to contemplate, deposited into the real world to corrupt and ensnare lesser beings who would dare to use them. This 15 card supplement adds a collection of all new Mine Artifacts for Shadows of Brimstone, themed around lost treasures and magical relics from the Void and other worlds beyond.
Targa Artifacts Set #1 (Was available as a new purchase in the Pledge Manager)- In the frozen over Targa Plateau, many relics of the past are buried in the ice… left dormant by the alien inhabitants of this once great city. These artifacts and technological wonders have been lost for eons, waiting to be discovered, and reactivated. This 15 card supplement adds a collection of all new Targa Plateau Artifacts for Shadows of Brimstone, themed around ancient alien technology and the lost terrors preserved in the ice for millennia
Jargono Artifacts Set #1 (Was available as a new purchase in the Pledge Manager)- In the hot and humid swamps of Jargono, primitive bands of Humans and savage Serpentmen build their civilizations on the ancient ruins of those who came before. Filled with ancient ceremonial relics and brutal Dark Stone-edged weapons, the jungle is home to many artifacts worth uncovering. This 15 card supplement adds a collection of all new Swamps of Jargono Artifacts for Shadows of Brimstone, themed around the primitive but brutal Dark Stone weapons used by the tribal Humans and Serpentmen of Jargono as well as lost relics and medicines native to the murky swamps.
Two of these, 'Dead Man's Bounty' and 'Treasures of the Void', were part of the Stretch Goals and are part of the Pledge for any Backer of Outlaw Level or Higher.
'Targa Artifacts Set #1' and 'Jargono Artifacts Set #1' were not part of the Kickstarter, but were available for purchase in the Pledge Manager.
There is a lot of paperwork involved in this process, but we've tried to simplify it as much as possible by creating one single item in the FFP Web Store called the "Card Supplement 'Get it Now' Pack". By purchasing this item (for free) in the web store, you pay only the cost of shipping for the cards and we will look up your Kickstarter Order in the Pledge Manager and send out whichever of these four Card Supplements that you got with your order. For most people, that means 'Dead Man's Bounty' and 'Treasures of the Void' (because they were part of the Stretch Goals). For those that purchased either the 'Targa Artifacts Set #1' or 'Jargono Artifacts Set #1' in the Pledge Manager, those will be included in the "Card Supplement 'Get it Now' Pack" as well.
Of course, you can also purchase any of these Supplements as separate items in the Web Store in case you missed one or more in the Pledge Manager.
NOTE: If you have extra pledges in your Kickstarter Pledge Manager Order, you must increase the quantity of "Card Supplement 'Get it Now' Packs", adding one 'Get it Now' pack for each pledge.
It will take a bit longer to fulfill each order as we must look up each Backer, check their Pledge Manager Order, and update it to reflect which card sets are being sent as part of this special offer. So, please allow extra time for processing these orders - it won't be as fast as our normal Web Store order fulfillment.
Here is the link to these items in the Web Store: http://flyingfrogproductions.mybigcommerce.com/ks-backer-special/
That's what I ordered, misplaced and will now have to order again.
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Post by: timd
Sorry, pics did not copy...
Project Update #56: Shadows of Brimstone by Flying Frog Productions
The Big Wave 1.5 Update - All the Details plus Hot Pics of Production Plastic Minis! A Second Chance to Get Colonel Scafford!
Posted by Flying Frog Productions
Hello Brimstone Gang!
Summer has flown by and Fall is upon us. We have been working late nights and weekends to make the new expansion material awesome and get as much stuff as possible completed in time to be included in Wave 1.5.
What is Wave 1.5
Before we start talking details about Wave 1.5, let's be sure that everyone knows what Wave 1.5 is about. During the Pledge Manager, we offered an option for Kickstarter Backers to purchase an extra shipping wave (Wave 1.5) between Wave 1 (the actual Core Game Sets, KS Exclusive Outlaw, Paint Sets) and Wave 2 (Everything else, once every last bit is completed - currently estimated to ship in Fall 2016). Wave 1.5 is not part of the shipping plan discussed during the Kickstarter Campaign and will be sent from within the USA.
After overwhelming requests from Backers, we decided to make this option available again. Backers can purchase the optional Shipping Wave 1.5 in our Official Flying Frog Web Store now! While you're there, we have also re-opened the option to purchase Legendary Scafford Gang Leader, Colonel Scafford - because he will be packaged with the Scafford Gang in the same box when they hit retail stores next year. You can find more on Colonel Scafford later in the update.
Wave 1.5 Updated Contents
We put together a huge list of items to be included in Wave 1.5. But, there are more miniature sets that are very close to completion. By pushing back our Wave 1.5 shipping date to start in December, we will be able to include a lot more stuff, including the Lord of Cynder, Scourge of Worlds, Last of the Shadow Kings... BELI'AL!
Plastic Production Sample of the XXL Shadow King, Beli'al - shown next to a Gunslinger Hero from the City of the Ancients Core Set, for scale comparison.
See below for our updated list of Wave 1.5 items. Please note that a lot of these items are coming in hot and it is still possible that one or more may fall through. This update is filled with images showing actual production plastic models from Wave 1.5! Our current estimate for contents of Wave 1.5 should include:
Caverns of Cynder OtherWorld Expansion (including Lava Men)
Frontier Town Expansion (including Bandits)
Scourge Rats (including Rat's Nest as a free bonus)
Serpentmen Warriors
Serpentmen Shaman
Void Sorcerers (was just a single Sorcerer in the KS, but we are including extra 2 Void Sorcerers as a free bonus)
Void Hounds
Undead Outlaw Gang
The Undead Gunslinger
Trederran Raiders
Harvesters
Custodians
Targa Pylons
XL Dark Stone Hydra
Scafford Gang
XXL Beli'al
Dead Man's Bounty Game Supplement
Treasures of the Void Game Supplement
Badlands Expedition Game Supplement
Prospector Hero Class - with Male and Female Miniatures
Orphan Hero Class - with Male and Female Miniatures
Drifter Hero Class - with Male and Female Miniatures
Outlaw Hero Miniatures - Male and Female
Doorways Into Darkness Set - including Into the Darkness Card Set as a Free Bonus (Minecart or Add-on)
XXL Burrower (Minecart or Add-on)
Dark Stone Brutes (Minecart or Add-on)
XL Guardian (Minecart or Add-on)
Colonel Scafford (Minecart or Add-on)
Trun Hunters (Add-on)
Targa Artifacts Game Supplement (Add-on)
Jargono Artifacts Game Supplement (Add-on)
Cynder Artifacts Game Supplement (Add-on)
Blank Card Set: Threats (Add-on)
Blank Card Set: Mine (Add-on)
Blank Card Set: Jargono (Add-on)
Blank Card Set: Targa (Add-on)
Plastic Production models of Lavamen - these are included in the Caverns of Cynder boxed Expansion.
Plastic Production Sample set of 6 Bandits - these are included in the Frontier Town boxed Expansion.
Plastic Production models of set of 12 Scourge Rats and their Rat's Nest.
Plastic Production model of the XXL Burrower shown next to a Gunslinger Hero from the City of the Ancients Core Set, for scale comparison.
Plastic Production sample set of 6 Undead Outlaws and the Undead Gunslinger.
Plastic Production Sample of the beautifully detailed Undead Gunslinger (close-up).
Plastic Production Sample of the Undead Gunslinger model assembled and on the sprue.
Plastic Production Sample of the Undead Outlaw models (we added a second sculpt!) assembled and on the sprue.
Plastic Production models of Dark Stone Brutes.
Plastic Production models of Trederran Raiders.
Plastic Production models of Trun Hunters.
Plastic Production models of set of 6 Serpentmen Warriors and the Serpentmen Shaman.
Plastic Production models of Harvesters.
Plastic Production models of Void Sorcerers.
Plastic Production models of Void Hounds.
Plastic Production models of the Doorways - both Mine Doorway and OtherWorld Doorway.
Plastic Production Sample of Scafford Gang models assembled and on the sprue.
Plastic Production Sample of Colonel Scafford model assembled and on the sprue.
Colonel Scafford
Minecart Backers are receiving the Scafford Gang Leader, Colonel Scafford. Some non-Minecart Backers purchased Colonel Scafford from the Add-ons menu. But many Backers are not currently receiving Colonel Scafford. He will be sold together with the Scafford Gang as a Deluxe Enemy Pack when they hit retail stores next year. We suspect that upon opening your Wave 1.5 and checking out all of the cool new expansion material, those who did not get Colonel Scafford, will want him. To stay ahead of the flood of inquiries about how to get Colonel Scafford, we are making him available to Backers again for a limited time in the Official Web Store for $10. If you purchase him with Wave 1.5, he will be included in your Wave 1.5 shipment.
Illustration of Colonel Scafford and his Scafford Gang by Brimstone artist, Ben Wootten.
Adding the Optional Wave 1.5
We have just added the optional Shipping Wave 1.5 to the Official Flying Frog Web Store. There are two options - US Address and Non-US Address. Be sure to select only the correct option for you. When you make the Web Store purchase of Wave 1.5, be sure to list in the notes the following information:
Your Name and Email Address as it appears in the Kickstarter Records
Your Current Address
List any additional Pledges purchased in the Pledge Manager
Your Wave 1.5 Shipping purchase will include the available items for ALL of your pledges under a single Kickstarter Account (so if you purchased an Extra Outlaw Pledge in the Pledge Manager, you will receive the 1.5 items for both pledges). If you pledged in the Kickstarter under multiple accounts, you will need to purchase a Wave 1.5 Shipping for each account.
An incredible new illustration of the Dark Stone Hydra from Brimstone artist, Ben Wootten.
Plastic Production sample of the XL Dark Stone Hydra model, shown assembled and on the sprue.
Plastic Production sample of the XL Dark Stone Hydra model, shown next to a Gunslinger Hero from the City of the Ancients Core Set, for scale comparison.
Declared Value
One topic that we know is on the minds of many non-US Backers interested in Wave 1.5 Shipping, is what will be the declared value of Wave 1.5. Because much of the contents are stretch goal rewards, we are planning to list a value way below the estimated retail value.
For an Outlaw Backer, we plan to list $50 value. For a Minecart Backer, we plan to list $75 value.
A beautiful new illustration of the Custodians of Targa from Brimstone artist, Ben Wootten.
Plastic Production Sample of Custodian models assembled and on the sprue.
Plastic Production Sample of Targa Pylons models assembled and on the sprue.
Plastic Production model of the XL Guardian of Targa, shown next to a Gunslinger Hero from the City of the Ancients Core Set, for scale comparison.
Well, that's it for now. This Wave 1.5 shipping will be a lot of work, but we are very excited to get more Brimstoney goodness into the hands of our faithful backers! Thanks again to all of you who have believed in and supported this project. It is an XXL-sized demon monster that we have to wrangle every day, but when we hear from you guys at conventions or in email about how much fun your game groups and families are having adventuring into the mines and beyond, it makes it all worth it!
Cheers,
Scott and Jason
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Post by: 455_PWR
That is an awesome list (YAY we get the drifter!!!). Only thing is they didn't list when they will begin shipping wave 1.5. As they are just re-opening the 1.5 shipping, I am assuming this means December or January :(
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Post by: Bioptic
Yeeg. Delivery of all products by "Fall 2016".
As a European minecart backer, this puts me in the deeply strange position of having a boardgame (or rather two giant boxes) on my shelf that won't see additional content until this time next year.
I've previously been reluctant to start playing the game with friends, as it lends itself well to a mini-campaign - if we have a taste and enjoy it, then we'd want to be playing with a full list of monsters, treasures and town options, rather than going "now if you'll just wait for a couple of years....".
For all of the waiting inherent in Kingdom Death, I feel that there isn't going to be the same gulf between the base game and expansions.
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Post by: Alpharius
$50 for "Wave 1.5" shipping to a USA address, $125 for "Wave 1.5" shipping to a non-USA address.
And I looked around but still couldn't find when the "Wave 1.5" shipping will actually be taking place.
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Post by: Forar
Boy, we're chatty today.
 455_PWR wrote:As an original minecart backer and original 1.5 shipping buyer... I will not be happy if they open the 1.5 shipping again. Some of us paid extra for this when it was first offered so we could get our items sooner. It was supposed to be this past spring, which became summer, which became October, now God knows when. If they open the 1.5 shipping again, this only means that we will not see our 1.5 items until next year as it will bring more delays (they have to produce and ship more product).
Stop the delays, ship those of us who coughed up the money many moons ago our next half please.
... what? A) yes, they opened 1.5 again, for 25% more. B) I don't see how opening 1.5 shipping adds delays at all; they have stuff in hand, they start sending it out to the people who already ordered 1.5, when they finish those they start firing off to people who ordered 1.5 late. They can start shipping the moment they have that pile of stuff in hand. More people joining the list doesn't change that.
pancakeonions wrote:Just so long as they *do* open their KS store (or whatever they call it) so we can add the Devil Slug and the Two Headed Doggie Rat secret monster packs.
If they have the gall to use their valuable time to make and playtest new SoB items that were not in the KS, then they durn well better give us SoB freaks the option of picking them up post haste!
Or just make them the next in the priority list to go to retail, where people could buy them for 3/4 the price off CSI, or likely still pay less and not have to wait on shipping (beyond local stores getting stock in hand)?
I mean, sure, it'd be an option, but it seems like it'd be cheaper and possibly even faster to just get those shotgunned into stores. Either way, they're due to end up there in the coming months. And one could argue that they're kinda fethed on this one; doing that will make some Gencon attendees bitch about how they only got their preview (at full MSRP) for a couple of months, others clamour to throw money at them but also adding yet another layer of work to shipping (which, even with an Outlaw baggy and a Mine Cart baggy, will surely have some double checking to do as it is).
455_PWR wrote:That is an awesome list (YAY we get the drifter!!!). Only thing is they didn't list when they will begin shipping wave 1.5. As they are just re-opening the 1.5 shipping, I am assuming this means December or January :(
Still not getting where opening 1.5 now means Jan/Dec shipping. Shipping is not contingent on them closing 1.5 again, it's contingent on them having 1.5 materials in hand. Which might not be for a couple of months, but the cause->effect you describe doesn't make sense to me.
Bioptic wrote:Yeeg. Delivery of all products by "Fall 2016".
As a European minecart backer, this puts me in the deeply strange position of having a boardgame (or rather two giant boxes) on my shelf that won't see additional content until this time next year.
I've previously been reluctant to start playing the game with friends, as it lends itself well to a mini-campaign - if we have a taste and enjoy it, then we'd want to be playing with a full list of monsters, treasures and town options, rather than going "now if you'll just wait for a couple of years....".
For all of the waiting inherent in Kingdom Death, I feel that there isn't going to be the same gulf between the base game and expansions.
Between the two base games alone, there's 18 missions to start with, and I know on BGG there's some custom stuff being worked on. Even at twice a month, that's mid next year without any repeats, and with the random map layout, encounters, and monsters, there's lots of replayability ( imo).
Alpharius wrote:$50 for "Wave 1.5" shipping to a USA address, $125 for "Wave 1.5" shipping to a non-USA address.
And I looked around but still couldn't find when the "Wave 1.5" shipping will actually be taking place.
Yeah. I really wish they distinguished between a MC and OL shipping; as supportive as I am and have been, as someone who picked up Cynder at Gencon, $125 US ($165 Canadian) for just the Outlaw stuff is a bit much to swallow.
Hopefully 1.5 starts shipping sooner rather than later, but they did say in the update that they were waiting on a few things to arrive still, so we'll just have to keep our fingers crossed that nothing gets too heavily delayed (or they accept one or two MIA items will just have to end up on wave 2 after all and start shipping out).
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Post by: cincydooley
$50 additional? Yikes.
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Post by: rayphoton
Yeah i was almost interested and then I saw the 50$
nope
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Post by: timd
Wave 1.5 shipping start date is in there, just well hidden...
Wave 1.5 Updated Contents
We put together a huge list of items to be included in Wave 1.5. But, there are more miniature sets that are very close to completion. By pushing back our Wave 1.5 shipping date to start in December, we will be able to include a lot more stuff, including the Lord of Cynder, Scourge of Worlds, Last of the Shadow Kings... BELI'AL!
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Post by: highlord tamburlaine
Even at 50 bucks I must admit the temptation is there.
We don't need to pay wave 2 shipping in 2017 or whenever, do we?
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Post by: Alpharius
timd wrote:Wave 1.5 shipping start date is in there, just well hidden...
Wave 1.5 Updated Contents
We put together a huge list of items to be included in Wave 1.5. But, there are more miniature sets that are very close to completion. By pushing back our Wave 1.5 shipping date to start in December, we will be able to include a lot more stuff, including the Lord of Cynder, Scourge of Worlds, Last of the Shadow Kings... BELI'AL!
D'oh!
Thanks for point that out!
 highlord tamburlaine wrote:Even at 50 bucks I must admit the temptation is there.
We don't need to pay wave 2 shipping in 2017 or whenever, do we?
I don't think so. It is just that Wave 2 is going to be around this time next year, most likely!
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Post by: cincydooley
I'm a "regular" backer and at this point I'm not even entirely sure what I'll be getting anymore.
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Post by: streamdragon
So Flying Frog took stuff to Gencon before sending it out to kickstarter backers?
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Post by: highlord tamburlaine
Some of it was available for pickup at Gen Con, as well as for sale. There were also the 2 new creatures available outside of the KS at Gen Con- the slugs and vermin.
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Post by: streamdragon
highlord tamburlaine wrote:Some of it was available for pickup at Gen Con, as well as for sale. There were also the 2 new creatures available outside of the KS at Gen Con- the slugs and vermin.
Ah, thanks for clarifying. Still, seems odd that they'd take kits to GenCon without fulfilling KS backers? That's kind of ... not cool Flying Frog.
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Post by: Alpharius
I'm pretty sure they were 100% upfront about it though?
To me it is no big deal - a complete non-issue.
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Post by: timd
Alpharius wrote:
highlord tamburlaine wrote:Even at 50 bucks I must admit the temptation is there.
We don't need to pay wave 2 shipping in 2017 or whenever, do we?
I don't think so. It is just that Wave 2 is going to be around this time next year, most likely!
Wave 2 shipping is already covered. Wave 1.5 is for people not willing to wait another year for more stuff. The extra year delay in get stuff out makes wave 2 shipping too far in the future, I want more stuff NOW, so am paying the wave 1.5 shipping. Seems more than a bit overpriced for just shipping. I'm assuming that it will also cover some of the packing labor and materials.
T
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Post by: Forar
Thanks Timd, I'd missed that as well.
And they were absolutely 100% up front about it. Hell, they had at least one update about it before hand (letting people know they could pick up Cynder), and another afterwards talking about it.
To go over the usual talking points;
A) while many KS backers *assume* that 'getting it first' is part of the arrangement, FFP made no such promise to us.
B) they sold core boxes at Gencon 2014 before shipping to backers too. Precedent has been set. Spoiler warning: they'll probably do it again at Gencon 2016.
C) they were selling at Gencon at *full MSRP*. Backers paid, like, half that or less. Sure, people got it a few months before even wave 1.5 backers, but they paid a significant markup (full MSRP plus taxes, actually, and on top of that international folks had to contend with exchange rates as well).
D) they had a pile of stuff available, and in the 4'ish months from Gencon to 1.5 shipping in December, they've added another pile of stuff. People complain about late and delayed KS's all the time, but I think it's awfully short sighted to ignore when a KS campaign actually manages to DO something, to progress, to have materials ready to go. I'll take this over something like Robotech where they delivered the core boxes a year late, and we're approaching 2 years late without an end in sight, no evidence of progress in 7 months (no exaggeration).
It's imperfect, but given what they're working with, it could be a lot worse.
Also, as fair warning, the first day of Winter is the end of December, so saying "fall 2016" could easily push to the literal end of the year. So yeah, it's possible some international packages might not arrive until January 2017, but even as one of those, I'll take that (with them spending the time to make a quality product for my money) than rushing to get crap out just to say it's out.
One of my professors from many years ago used to say "you can get things Good, Fast, and Cheap, but you're lucky if you get 2 of the 3".
Subjectively (up to personal opinion), we got a Good product, and we Objectively (factually) got it Cheap (1/2 retail or less). Getting it Fast would be nice, but we're already beyond par here.
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Post by: streamdragon
Alpharius wrote:I'm pretty sure they were 100% upfront about it though?
Forar wrote:>stuff<
Clearly I didn't have all the details! If they were up front about it then carry on Flying Frog, carry on. I wish I'd gotten in on the Kickstarter but I completely forgot until it was over. I'm a Flying Frog fan (own all of LNOE, IFOS, ToE and both cores for SoB along with Caverns), so it's good to hear they weren't sketchy in the slightest.
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Post by: Forar
Apologies if I came on a bit strong. It feels like I'm clarifying and contextifying for KS backers on a weekly basis at times, perhaps there was a little general exasperation present that wasn't necessary.
And to be fair, it's not like it has been a campaign without things to reasonably take issue with. The communication is infrequent at best; they'll go 4-6 weeks or so without an update before dropping a bomb. They've said that they don't want to have 'hey, we're still alive!' updates, but I have a hard time believing they couldn't at least check in a little more regularly and split some of the sizable ones they do produce into more frequent smaller chunks.
It is a considerable delay; nobody sensible thought they'd do 3+ years work in a year, but as much as I appreciate them taking the time to produce (what I think is) a great product, late 2014 to late 2016 (or early 2017) is a hell of a time frame. I stand by my statements about them actually producing things (gold star!), but it's not an easy timeline for everyone to swallow, I get that.
It is a *spicy* product line. Expensive as the Mine Cart was, this whole thing at retail (even with a CSI level discount) is still a couple of grand, and one could throw an astronomical amount at it to have a variety of paint schemes and whatnot.
Long story short, there could be improvements in how this progresses, but overall I'm quite pleased with the product I've received thus far. It's not ideal, but it's what they have to work with and what they can offer us.
I do hope 1.5 goes well (even if I'm not a part of it), and that retail starts expanding significantly. Even if they're still flush with funding monies for wave 2 product, a big pile of cash on top of that from moving stuff to retailers couldn't hurt either.
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Post by: Aeneades
I managed to miss the fact that two new non-kickstarter creature boxes had a limited realise so hopefully it wont be too long until the slugs and void rats hit retail properly.
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Post by: Alpharius
Yeah, I completely missed this too!
Anyonw have all the specifics?
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Post by: Aeneades
Apologies, I had the wrong names earlier. They are swamp slugs and hell vermin. From what I understand the vermin are a mines based enemy.
They come with a painting guide on top of the regular cards and some copies are still available on eBay with a big markup. Hopefully they are released at the same time they ship wave 1.5.
I also saw some "dark stone shards" exclusive terrain pieces on eBay in part of a bulk bundle someone is selling but can't find any information on them at all. Hopefully just the resin versions are exclusive and they do a plastic general release.
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Post by: Forar
I think it'd probably be faster/more efficient for FFP to just try to get the Slugs and Vermin to retail asap, where people probably wouldn't have to pay full MSRP (as they would with FFP) and likely pick them up in roughly the same time, if not faster (especially if they can get them to retail before the holiday crush in November, which would be before 1.5 shipping begins in December anyway).
The Dark Stone Shards are just an in-house resin 'bling' bit that was available in a blister at Gencon. 5 pieces of resin darkstone, nothing to worry about, definitely not something worth spending a reseller's markup for. I only have a set because I was given a prize for participating in the painting competition, was going to skip them entirely otherwise.
Now, because I was bored this afternoon, enjoy a little graphical demonstration;
As we can see, they've actually gotten a considerable amount done in the last 14 months or so (from completion of the Core Boxes to now), and presumably have things that are somewhere approaching ready but just haven't been completed yet (we've seen renders of piles of figures, perhaps rules are still being tweaked for some of them, or they're also undergoing another pass to make sure the detail comes out to their liking, etc).
3 more Otherworlds to go, 5 mission packs, and a pile of cards and figures. There's definitely still a lot to do, but I'm happy that they are, in fact, making progress.
2
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Post by: Alpharius
Forar - bravo there!
That is awesome and quite helpful!
And it probably also just convinced me to get that 1.5 shipping...
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Post by: endtransmission
That wave 2 box for mine cart backers who do not have a wave 1.5 is going to be insanely big!
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Post by: Forar
Thank you, Alpharius.
Credit where credit is due, I got the idea from a backer named Phal who created this site.
Last I checked, he hadn't updated for 1.5, so I thought I'd give it a shot with cutting and pasting in Paint.
Apologies if there are any errors, I tried to be as accurate as possible.
And worth noting, not every image is equal; some reflect a single figure or pack of cards, others are an entire otherworld, lest anyone thing I was being misleading (intentionally or otherwise).
But yeah, it was mostly for my own benefit, but I'm glad others like to see it that way as well.
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Post by: streamdragon
Forar wrote:Apologies if I came on a bit strong. It feels like I'm clarifying and contextifying for KS backers on a weekly basis at times, perhaps there was a little general exasperation present that wasn't necessary.
Not at all! I know it can be hard to tell with text, but I am genuinely glad that FFG is/was upfront about retail before KS being a possibility. Like I said, I didn't find out about this until well after the KS had ended, so I'm not getting any updates that FFG is putting out or anything. I've been playing their games for awhile now (need to order Conquest: Earth at some point...) and I've always liked the way they do things.
Speaking of, I took the time to punch all the board pieces and tokens for City of the Ancients and Caverns of Cynder yesterday (already head Swamps of Despair punched). I'm going to have to find a new storage solution, because the amount of stuff in those boxes is insane. Cards especially I suspect I will need a storage solution for, since I have all the cardboard chits in a tacklebox.
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Post by: Forar
I enjoy CoPE, hopefully it proves a hit with your group as well! And I've been using divided boxes from a local hardware shop. I've got 2 so far; one for the two core boxes, and a second for Cynder. I could probably go with a more affordable solution, but I'm thinking that with a little effort I might be able to get the cards in there as well, and end up with a box per Otherworld or two, something that'll sit in a stack on the shelves until needed, and free up space within the core boxes I'm using for card/tile storage as it is.
4 more Otherworlds plus mission packs plus enemies, I'm going to need a full cabinet just to store this all, which strangely I don't consider a bad thing.
Speaking of new content; here is a preview of the upcoming Frontier Town Expansion.
Personally I think it looks *awesome*. So much potential to really change up how the game is played.
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Post by: Nostromodamus
Love that Frontier Town!
They're really packing more into the game and supplements than we initially signed up for. Makes the deal even better!
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Post by: highlord tamburlaine
Wow! Hadn't seen or heard about this video yet. Very cool stuff.
Makes the decision to get that 1.5 shipping that much more tempting...
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Post by: Nomeny
Can anyone speak to the quality of the Tentacles?
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Post by: streamdragon
They're good, solid plastic models? My only real issue with them was the plastic bulged on the base, so it took some cutting to get the base flat enough to sit on the base.
Other than that, they're obviously the easiest of the models to get usable, since they're one piece instead of like 5.
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Post by: Forar
Frankly, as a rampant fanboy of the game?
Meh.
There's a couple of mold lines and connection points on the sprues that are in obnoxious places right on detail points.
Edit: and steamdragon is right, I had to cut/file mine down to sit flat as well, though that was a fairly quick and simple thing to cover.
I primed and painted mine to a basic level (as I am a basic level painter) and don't mind them, but if you're a hardcore minis guy looking to create display pieces, I wouldn't fault you for wanting to rage quit over a couple of them. They're not all horrific, but it's not ideal either.
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Post by: streamdragon
I'd think someone looking for great display pieces shouldn't be looking to Flying Frog Games though. Their figures have always been "serviceable" in terms of casting quality. They've never really been the focal point of the game.
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Post by: Nomeny
So pretty workable so long as I'm willing to do a little work on them?
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Post by: streamdragon
Yup. There are sprue pics on Google Image search, along with shots of some painted ones.
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Post by: Nomeny
Is there anything else comparable out there? I've looked at Pure Evil miniatures, and they have some lovely resin tentacles, but I'm afraid those are probably beyond my budget.
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Post by: Forar
streamdragon wrote:I'd think someone looking for great display pieces shouldn't be looking to Flying Frog Games though. Their figures have always been "serviceable" in terms of casting quality. They've never really been the focal point of the game.
No doubt about it.
Was simply focusing on the usual (and not incorrect) critiques before we went on another "these are the gakiest gakfests that were ever gaked from a sprue, feth me they should be paying me to even be in the same room as this gak" tears that occur occasionally.
I think they're fine, I'm happy with how they painted up, but even as a noob I can recognize that there are a couple of joins in... inopportune places.
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Post by: Nomeny
I was asking because I wanted to use them in a count-as 40k Chaos Daemon army, and I was worried they might have some fundamental issues to make them look bad rather than just some issues tidying up mold-lines and the such.
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Post by: streamdragon
Forar wrote: streamdragon wrote:I'd think someone looking for great display pieces shouldn't be looking to Flying Frog Games though. Their figures have always been "serviceable" in terms of casting quality. They've never really been the focal point of the game.
No doubt about it.
Was simply focusing on the usual (and not incorrect) critiques before we went on another "these are the gakiest gakfests that were ever gaked from a sprue, feth me they should be paying me to even be in the same room as this gak" tears that occur occasionally.
I think they're fine, I'm happy with how they painted up, but even as a noob I can recognize that there are a couple of joins in... inopportune places.
I definitely had to wonder why I was gluing hats on models with tabs and notches instead of just having the rancher's hat, ya know, on her head! Then again, I expect there was a large contingent of board gamers that are not also table-top gamers who were a bit shocked at having to assemble models.
As for mine, I may get around to painting them, some day. (no I won't)
Nomeny wrote:I was asking because I wanted to use them in a count-as 40k Chaos Daemon army, and I was worried they might have some fundamental issues to make them look bad rather than just some issues tidying up mold-lines and the such.
You should be okay. The models aren't super stellar, but we're talking about tentacles with suckers on them not centerpiece models or greater daemons or something.
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Post by: Nomeny
Sounds good. The price is so much better than most other tentacles available out there.
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Post by: ced1106
How large and when do you need the tentacles? CMON's going to have a tentacle pack (60 for $10) when they release the Others, a long time from now. DCM has some prepainted tentacle miniatures: http://www.dungeoncrawler.com/dcm/#set001
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Post by: Nomeny
I checked out the dungeon-crawler ones and they're $4 each, which is distinctly more than $10 for six. They're nice though, and I might look into getting that big clubbed tentacle when it's released. I'm looking up the CMON's tentacle pack, but the size I want is approximately 25mm-based Daemon-sized, as I want to use them as analogs for various 40k Daemons. I looked up CMONss Others, and I don't think their Corruption tokens really fit the bill - Might be an idea for Nurglings though.
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Post by: ecurtz
You could look at the Rum and Bones "Kraken" which is just a collection of tentacles. Nicer than the Brimstone ones, IMO, and probably not very expensive.
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Post by: highlord tamburlaine
Except those kraken tentacles are also included with the sea serpent. Weren't those exclusives?
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Post by: Nomeny
They're a little kraken specific. The ones with the mast especially. Also, to sound like a size-queen, they're kind of small and skinny. I like my tentacles big and girthy.
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Post by: ArtIsGreat
Deadline on getting 1.5? Passed?
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Post by: Forar
November 30th, according to the last update.
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Post by: Alpharius
Hurrah - actual Shadows of Brimstone news in the Shadows of Brimstone thread!
Of course, I already new that, just it is Old News, but still On Topic, so that has to count for something, right?
RIGHT?!?
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Post by: cincydooley
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Post by: Nomeny
I went with the Shadows of Brimstone tentacles - right price for the quantity I wanted, and Flying Frog were willing to sell them to me separate of other stuff in the Shadows of Brimstone sets so that was cool of them.
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Post by: Forar
That is awesome. When I met some of their people at Gencon, I mentioned being interested in buying up some extra enemy sprues so I could paint up otherworld variants of the core world enemies (Snow Terrors and whatnot), and they agreed that had potential. I'm glad to hear they're willing to hook you up, hopefully this become an option at a wider level (even if it just remains a Webstore Only kind of thing).
As long as the price was right, I could see snagging a few kits the next time I order from them. Might not be easy to balance, because of course once you get up to enough sprues it becomes cheaper to just buy the whole box again (if somewhat space inefficient), but that has crossed my mind.
Though I should probably focus on painting what I have before wave 1.5 comes in anyway, rather than pondering more stuff to build and prime.
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Post by: Alpharius
Can someone help me out and remind me what was in the "Kickstarter Backer Get It Now Pack"?
I ordered it, misplaced it, and now have to re-order the cards packs! 
Also, anything interesting pop up in the comments section lately?
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Post by: Forar
The Get It Now pack was, as I recall, 4 card packs; 3 artifact expansions for the swamps, plateau, and mines, and a gear expansion for the mines.
Yeah, here it is; https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1034852783/shadows-of-brimstone/posts/1194864
Dead Man's Bounty
Treasures of the Void
Targa Artifacts Set #1
Jargono Artifacts Set #1
As for the comments, it's mostly been the usual ebb and flow of chatter from what I've seen, though FFP did duck in briefly.
"There is not really enough info for an update yet. We have received more shipments of miniatures and bases, but still do not have all the printed materials to accompany all the miniature sets. We also have not yet received the Frontier Town Expansion. Due to the delays, we are looking at air freighting in a few pallets from China to get started sooner (mid January)."
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Post by: Alpharius
Thanks for the update Forar!
Did you go for the 1.5 shipping?
I decided against it - especially after I lost my "Get it Now!" cards!
Is that 'special someone' still active in the KS comments section?
You know the guy who has the Super Awesome Spectacular life?
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Post by: streamdragon
Forar wrote:We also have not yet received the Frontier Town Expansion.
wait wait wait... does that mean the Frontier Town Expansion is done and they're just waiting on it from the manufacturer? Because that is super awesome news if true.
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Post by: pancakeonions
Yes, this was posted by FFP six days ago on the KS general comments section:
There is not really enough info for an update yet. We have received more shipments of miniatures and bases, but still do not have all the printed materials to accompany all the miniature sets. We also have not yet received the Frontier Town Expansion. Due to the delays, we are looking at air freighting in a few pallets from China to get started sooner (mid January).
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
So... they started selling the tiles for this separately yet?
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Post by: Forar
 Alpharius wrote:Thanks for the update Forar!
Did you go for the 1.5 shipping?
I decided against it - especially after I lost my "Get it Now!" cards!
Is that 'special someone' still active in the KS comments section?
You know the guy who has the Super Awesome Spectacular life?
Through a bit of luck, I was able to arrange 1.5 shipping because my friend already had it, and tucking the Outlaw portion of it in with his Mine Cart was something they were willing to do.
And no, I don't think 'he' is still about, though honestly I haven't been nearly as active in that KS Comments section of late. It seems to have simmered down, so I'm mostly just hoping there's good shipping news in the coming weeks.
streamdragon wrote:wait wait wait... does that mean the Frontier Town Expansion is done and they're just waiting on it from the manufacturer? Because that is super awesome news if true.
Yup. They showed it off a while ago, actually! Here's the video, and honestly, I cannot wait to put it to use.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ug75Ty3gvW4
 H.B.M.C. wrote:So... they started selling the tiles for this separately yet?
Not that I'm aware of. They've started selling individual enemy sprues, though they're a bit spicy for the figures, you can get a whole box set at an ( imo) reasonable discount.
That said, there was a guy on BGG that worked out a situation where he bought a box and parceled out the figures/bits he didn't want. There are actually a few things I wouldn't mind snagging; not enough to buy a whole extra core box for them, but some extra void spiders (mostly for alt paint schemes) and more peril dice would be nice. If there was enough interest, I could see sorting something like that out.
What were you looking for?
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Post by: streamdragon
Yeah, I saw that preview awhile back and was super psyched. I guess I'm so used to long dev. cycles that I didn't expect it this soon!
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Post by: pancakeonions
There was some speculation that future releases of the core set heroes and figures would be crisper or better done. Knowing little about how these figures are made, I have no idea if that's even possible without remaking the molds.
Has anyone seen newer figures, and are they of the same quality as the original KS release?
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Post by: Forar
Maybe I'm mis-recalling, but I believe the statements were that later figures in general would be crisper, and that they'd gone back over their figures to enhance them to better work with the factory/production method/whatever.
Maybe one day if/when the molds wear out enough that they need to be remade, but agreed, from what little I know about these kinds of figures, I can't imagine there's a very good reason to start from scratch on those.
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Post by: ArtIsGreat
They aren't any better, previews looked as soft and faceless as the first batch. Bigger stuff of course holds more detail but a lot lost on the normal guys.
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Post by: Forar
Personally I think they're better, but I'm not much of a minis expert.
That said, keep in mind that some of the fanbase lost their minds when they found out assembly was necessary. On BGG there are still threads and posts popping up to this day bemoaning the need for assembly. Some of the larger figures like the Trun, Burrower and Guardian do have a considerable number of pieces to them, but others like the Slugs and Hell Vermin are 2 halves to glue together, and others like the Lava Men are a single piece.
They're not showpieces (again, imo) right out of the box, but they're also trying to cater to a lot of different groups here.
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Post by: ArtIsGreat
We have to build their ugly gap filled minis, i don't know which gaming group that is catering to, but I hate them :(
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Post by: greywulf
I've had a great time putting them together with my kids. Painting will happen too some day.
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Post by: ArtIsGreat
Haha, wish I had kids, ''one day you will clean, build, green stuff paint and base these minis because I don't want to''
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Post by: Nostromodamus
Looks like MM has a bunch of the new releases, including the slugs that weren't part of the KS. Nice discount too. Get them while you can!
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Post by: Forar
Slugs and Vermin are sold out at MM, but there's stock (allegedly) available at CoolStuffInc, seem to have a similar (or the same, I only glanced at both pages) discount.
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Post by: Aeneades
They reached uk stores here at the end of last week as well but appear to have sold out very quickly (I ordered some online which have just arrived today). Not had a chance to open and check quality yet.
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Post by: Alpharius
I know I've asked this before but...
...what are the proposed, allegedly, not-set-in-stone ship dates for Waves 1.5 and 2.0?
Hopefully 2.0 is actually scheduled for 2016...
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Post by: str00dles1
Once I saw MM had 5 new sets in stock, I couldnt help but be reminded of how terrible Flying Frog is. Everyone I know has sworn after they get 1.5 and 2.0 (which could be never as it seems) they will never buy their products again. Terrible terrible company
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Post by: Forar
1.5 was last noted to hopefully go out mid January. I'm hoping they announce boxes going out soon, but given that the hold up was with their printer (from what I've read), if that stuff isn't ready, it's not ready. They were thinking of air-freighting some stuff to get started soon, but that info is a bit old now. 2.0 was last aimed at for later (the end of?) this year, but again, not holding my breath just yet. Whatever they might say or imply, I think our litmus test will be what they have available at Gencon this year. They've got, what, 3 otherworlds to do, along with 5 Mission Packs and a good number of remaining figures (heroes and monsters and alternate versions) to go. How much they have good to go by mid year should at least give us (and them) a better ballpark to work from. I'm cautiously optimistic, but I won't at all be shocked if wave 2 drifts further. Just hopefully not too far. str00dles1 wrote:Everyone I know has sworn after they get 1.5 and 2.0 (which could be never as it seems)
Them producing things they're working on is evidence that we might never actually get them? That is... an opinion alright. Believe me, I wish we didn't have to wait 3 or 4 years for delivery in full, but if you want to see a project that *actually* might not deliver wave 2, go look into Robotech Tactics. That is an absolute gakshow.
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Post by: Alpharius
Forar wrote:
str00dles1 wrote:Everyone I know has sworn after they get 1.5 and 2.0 (which could be never as it seems)
Them producing things they're working on is evidence that we might never actually get them?
That is... an opinion alright.
Believe me, I wish we didn't have to wait 3 or 4 years for delivery in full, but if you want to see a project that *actually* might not deliver wave 2, go look into Robotech Tactics.
Yeah, while I'm peeved at how long this is taking, I'm not concerned about them never delivering it.
Not sure how one would arrive at that conclusion...
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Post by: highlord tamburlaine
Which one are we peeved at though- Robotech or Brimstone?
Apples and oranges there...
Part of me wishes I'd paid for 1.5, but then the practical side of me doesn't feel like spending more money on what is probably the single most expensive gaming purchase I've subjected myself to.
(Kingdom Death doesn't count as I piecemealed that, adding a bit at a time, whereas that minecart was one giant payment.)
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Post by: Alpharius
Seriously?
Is it even a contest?!?
Or do you still believe that PB is really 98% done on everything and a 'Wave 2 is Done!' announcement is imminent
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Post by: Goremaul
Time sure flies when you semi-forget about something, then realize it was 3.5 years ago that you originally paid for it.
I'll admit, I really didn't think that it would take this long for Brimstone to arrive. I really hope the rest is ready this year, but I'm kinda doubtful...
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Post by: Forar
With the benefit of hindsight, even I do wish they'd reigned in the campaign. It may have seemed like a good idea on paper, but I think if instead they'd just gone for the 2 core boxes, maybe Cynder and a couple of other bits, and then run another campaign after those delivered to expand the setting/product line, it might've gone over better.
Scope creep is absolutely a problem here.
That said, and I apologize for the pedantry, but the campaign funded in November 2013, and it's January 2016. That's not 3.5 years, it's barely over 2. Like, we're not even fully at 26 months yet.
By the time we get wave 2 it may be at 3 or 3.5 years (or more, much as I hope it won't be), but we should be annoyed/frustrated over things they've actually done. :-P
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Post by: streamdragon
it's weird to me that KS backers are still waiting for their stuff, but I have been playing and enjoying both core sets, Caverns of Cinder and now I'm just waiting for MM to restock so I can order these latest expansions.
Granted, all told this cost WAY more than if KS backers paid, and you get the Outlaw class to boot!
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Post by: Alpharius
To be fair, even us KS Backers have been enjoying the Core Sets for some time now.
And it was only...1 year and a few months late?
Of course, this KS grew out of control, and 'the rest of the stuff' will most likely end up being...2 to 3 years 'late'!
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Post by: ced1106
Also, SoB was FFP's "First Created" project. So, if you went in, you should expect more risk than a typical KS, at least one by a similarly experienced company. SoB finished November, 2013, and Cthulhu Wars, another "First Created" project with massive amounts of miniatures (albeit by a new company), finished July 2013 -- that's five months earlier -- and only just finished shipping and completing its project. Maybe MegaCon Game's first Myth KS (April 2013 to October 2014), which had its share of problems, might be another project to compare with SoB.
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Post by: endtransmission
Yesterday's update added a few new bits of info to the mix.
1) In order to get much better quality in the characters, they are switching those from plastic to resin. As you can imagine, this is causing a lot of moaning over on KS from the boardgame crowd. Personally I'm over the moon with this move. Some prototype resins can be seen on BGG
2) The delay in the Town set arriving let them get the dice and darkstone shards all finished and hopefully a lot of the resin characters too. Apparently wave 1.5 should be starting to ship either he end of this month, or the start of February. First parcels will be going to Oz to make up for them being last in the first wave.
3) Trederra is the next Otherworld box
Sadly still no estimations for Wave 2, but at least I get to play with the newer expansions as my new gaming group are buying them as they get released until my Minecart arrives with everything they don't own. We played Cinder last night and damn, those cinder ghosts are hard... 5 defense, can only take one damage per hit!
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Post by: Alpharius
Resin heroes makes me VERY happy!
Do we know any more details as far as they're concerned?
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Post by: 455_PWR
Yes, resin heroes is a great thing. I'd be happy with all resin minis!
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Post by: endtransmission
Not really. Yesterday's update is the only official mention of the resin figures and all they said was that it was to ensure a finer level of detail in the final figures.
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Post by: Forar
 Alpharius wrote:To be fair, even us KS Backers have been enjoying the Core Sets for some time now. And it was only...1 year and a few months late?
*more pedantry ahead* Shipping of wave one started a few months after their original August 2014 target, as I recall. I think I got mine in November or early December. The whole project will definitely accrue at least 2 years on the "beyond original estimate scoreboard", but they were pretty close for the cores alone (not that the campaign remained at 'just the core boxes' for long). *end pedantry* I have the least experience with resin, and admit some concerns about bubbles and fragility, but the great thing about the game is that the hero figures aren't *required* (as in, I can use the Preacher as a Lawman all I want). I use my metal and plastic Malifaux figures alongside FFP's own plastic (and eventually resin) ones. It might prove to be a consideration for transportation, but in that case if I'm bringing the game somewhere (which currently doesn't happen), I'll just leave resin ones behind. They've said the monsters will still be in plastic. I also went and updated my visual representation of the completed (out at retail or available in wave 1.5) products. The alt sculpts, dice, and Darkstone do indeed make me happy. At a glance, things that remain a Work In Progress includes: - 9 card packs (mostly encounters) - 6 Allies (Blacksmith, Mule, Faithful Dog, 3 Henchmen) - 6 Mission Packs - 6 Hero classes (Male and Female versions) - 3 Other Worlds - 10 enemy sets (ranging from packs of multiples to titanic single foes) - Odds and ends (Mine Terrain) We know one Otherworld is shaping up now (announced ~6 months before they announced Cynder last year), and they've touched on the Mission Packs, which as of Gencon last year they were still sorting out the exact particulars of. Hopefully by Gencon we'll see at least 1 OW and several MPs, or 2(+?!) OW's and a MP or two (or more) ready to go. I'm not hedging any bets on them wrapping all that up in the next 11 months (let alone less), but Gencon will, as previously noted, remain our litmus test.
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Post by: endtransmission
Thanks for the image update. Looking at all those items, the minecart wave 2 box is going to be MASSIVE!
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Post by: Forar
 endtransmission wrote:Thanks for the image update. Looking at all those items, the minecart wave 2 box is going to be MASSIVE!
Yeah, what I got at Gencon (Cynder, a half dozen enemy boxes) took up a considerable box all on its own. Adding all those other enemy/hero boxes, 3 more otherworlds, frontier town (which seems to be a Cynder sized box in itself) and the mission packs, a non-1.5 wave 2 (the full deal aside from the 2 cores, in other words) is going to be... massive. Speaking of 1.5, they released another update, a short one to showcase the new resin figures. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5PUbOnzFC0&feature=youtu.be I enjoy the contrast between here (generally supportive of the move to resin) versus the KS comments themselves (where I've felt like I had to talk a few people off ledges). Edit: Speaking of wave 2, I wonder how diverse the Outlaw backers were with their add ons? Seems to me like FFP isn't too far from having everything done for the base Outlaw tier, so depending on what add ons Outlaws got, I could see pointedly finishing that stuff up and being able to ship those out at least. Depending on how many people swapped from Outlaw to Mine Cart or picked up one in the pledge manager, that could be half of the backers right there. Of course, it'd also lead to 'omg mine carts paid you the most and we get last shipping, this is a Slap In The Face, FFP is dead to me' style commentary, I'm sure.
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Post by: Goremaul
Forar wrote:With the benefit of hindsight, even I do wish they'd reigned in the campaign. It may have seemed like a good idea on paper, but I think if instead they'd just gone for the 2 core boxes, maybe Cynder and a couple of other bits, and then run another campaign after those delivered to expand the setting/product line, it might've gone over better.
Scope creep is absolutely a problem here.
That said, and I apologize for the pedantry, but the campaign funded in November 2013, and it's January 2016. That's not 3.5 years, it's barely over 2. Like, we're not even fully at 26 months yet.
By the time we get wave 2 it may be at 3 or 3.5 years (or more, much as I hope it won't be), but we should be annoyed/frustrated over things they've actually done. :-P
Heh, this "pedantry" is actually appreciated! I feel a bit better knowing that it's only been barely over 2 years since pledging.
The resin heroes is definitely an interesting choice. On one hand, better quality minis are always appreciated. On the other hand, the continued talk of "this is so expensive!" in the backer emails is off-putting.
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Post by: Nomeny
I've been loving the plastic tentacles I was able to order from Flying Frog.
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Post by: Alpharius
Nomeny wrote:I've been loving the plastic tentacles I was able to order from Flying Frog.
Ah....OK.
Heh!
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Post by: Goremaul
Hahaha; oh anime....
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Post by: ced1106
endtransmission wrote:1) In order to get much better quality in the characters, they are switching those from plastic to resin. As you can imagine, this is causing a lot of moaning over on KS from the boardgame crowd. Personally I'm over the moon with this move. Some prototype resins can be seen on BGG
They're "moaning" because of resin's reputation as being fragile, and air bubbles (eg. Finecast). Will the resin replace the plastic figures, or be an additional line?
EDIT: I saw the video, so will be "cautiously optimistic". I've seen plastic retail miniatures which were nowhere as good as the sample ones, and resin's harder to cast than plastic. Not that I have any choice  but I'll wait for the reviews of the retail product. Hope this works!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5PUbOnzFC0&feature=youtu.be
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Post by: Azazelx
Alpharius wrote:
Yeah, while I'm peeved at how long this is taking, I'm not concerned about them never delivering it.
I'm quite concerned about them taking so long to actually deliver Wave 2 that the local laws will change regarding import duties. Currently set for mid-2017.
I'd also be concerned with their ability to deliver quality resin models in the numbers they'll need to to fulfil pledges. Seems like another time-delay minefield sold on the backs of some probably nice "samples of quality" models FFG may have been shown.
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Post by: Alpharius
Well, those are certainly very real and valid concerns, of course.
This game might be the poster boy for the 'grew out of control' campaign.
If we get resin miniatures that are of the quality shown in that video linked earlier though, well that will be a good thing. But yes, if that's in house - or even contracted - well, this may very well mean more...delays.
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Post by: timd
Would than not be "Hentai!"?
T
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Post by: cincydooley
As a single example, I got an outlaw and don't think I added anything, because I figured their scope creep was going to leave them massively unprepared in regards to timeline.
Then again, I also figured they'd finish all the outlaw stuff first.....
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Post by: Forar
They're only so many things away from actually being done with outlaws that didn't add anything (that hasn't been produced, that is).
Maybe they'll push to finish those and deliver Outlaws this year? 5 card packs, 3 allies, and a single enemy kit seem to be all that's left on the base Outlaw package. At least, at a glance at my handy little sheet.
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Post by: cincydooley
Forar wrote:They're only so many things away from actually being done with outlaws that didn't add anything (that hasn't been produced, that is).
Maybe they'll push to finish those and deliver Outlaws this year? 5 card packs, 3 allies, and a single enemy kit seem to be all that's left on the base Outlaw package. At least, at a glance at my handy little sheet.
That would be nice. I may even reconsider the game if that happens. I'd have to re-buy a base set, but they're pretty easy to find.
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Post by: Azazelx
Alpharius wrote:Well, those are certainly very real and valid concerns, of course.
This game might be the poster boy for the 'grew out of control' campaign.
Along with Journey: Wrath of Demons that delivered Wave 1 (core boxes only - but no extras of the models from the same tools) a year late and hasn't had an update now in 2 months. Backers who pledged for their expensive resin were supposed to have it sent out in November, and apparently it's just starting to trickle in now with postmarks of January. I'm starting to wonder if this one will fold before the extras come in.
Or Robotech Tactics, which I don't feel a need to elaborate on.
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Post by: endtransmission
Alpharius wrote:
If we get resin miniatures that are of the quality shown in that video linked earlier though, well that will be a good thing. But yes, if that's in house - or even contracted - well, this may very well mean more...delays.
Beyond the current delays switching to resin from plastic, they seemed to think that they will have enough for those people that bought wave 1.5, which to be fair probably isn't all that many. They then have almost a year (or more) to stockpile all the others and refine any casting issues before wave 2... So I don't think delays will be a massive thing for most backers. I could be wrong though
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Post by: BobtheInquisitor
What do you guys think of the quality of the plastic miniatures? I'm thinking about buying some of the plastic monsters off of their website, but I seem to remember a lot of complaints about miniature quality. Are the pictures on their website an accurate representation of the product? What else should I be wary of?
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Post by: endtransmission
The original monsters aren't too bad, most of the moaning is aimed at the human ones (heroes and undead) and the big tentacled boss who are detailless blobs of mess.
The monster detail is soft in places and the parts do not always fit together brilliantly, but once the gaps are filled in and painted up, they look pretty good. The monsters in later packs are much better. The slashers, tentacles and void spiders are probably the nicest models of the lot
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Post by: pancakeonions
 BobtheInquisitor wrote:What do you guys think of the quality of the plastic miniatures? I'm thinking about buying some of the plastic monsters off of their website, but I seem to remember a lot of complaints about miniature quality. Are the pictures on their website an accurate representation of the product? What else should I be wary of?
They're not great. Fine for boardgaming, but they do require some TLC. Funny, in my sets the tentacles were the most annoying (lowest quality cast, poor details).
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Post by: Forar
In other news, I had some friends over last night, and we went into the mines to seal some 'Hell Pit' a group of idiot miners apparently managed to unleash on the countryside.
Level 1 Indian Scout, Level 1 Rancher, level 2 Marshall, versus a pre-set board augmented with Dwarven Forge cavern tiles. I'll have to get a full pic of the table for here, but this was a snapshot from the final battle;
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Post by: endtransmission
pancakeonions wrote: BobtheInquisitor wrote:What do you guys think of the quality of the plastic miniatures? I'm thinking about buying some of the plastic monsters off of their website, but I seem to remember a lot of complaints about miniature quality. Are the pictures on their website an accurate representation of the product? What else should I be wary of?
They're not great. Fine for boardgaming, but they do require some TLC. Funny, in my sets the tentacles were the most annoying (lowest quality cast, poor details).
The suckers on the tentacles are a bit poor, but the texture on the rest is much better than on some of the other creatures, to the extent that drybrushing and washes do give a good effect. Some of the other creatures are just smooooooth.
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Post by: BobtheInquisitor
That doesn't sound entirely promising, but not a deal breaker necessarily. How would they compare to Bones minis or even Mansion of Madness?
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Post by: cincydooley
BobtheInquisitor wrote:That doesn't sound entirely promising, but not a deal breaker necessarily. How would they compare to Bones minis or even Mansion of Madness?
Ehh...I think both Bones and MoM have nicer minis.... that you don't have to fuss with at all.
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Post by: pancakeonions
 cincydooley wrote: BobtheInquisitor wrote:That doesn't sound entirely promising, but not a deal breaker necessarily. How would they compare to Bones minis or even Mansion of Madness?
Ehh...I think both Bones and MoM have nicer minis.... that you don't have to fuss with at all.
I agree. I haven't seen MoM minis (are those the Fantasy Flight Arkham Horror minis? If so, those are better too - they're done!) but Bones are in general better than SoB. Some are much better.
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Post by: Azazelx
endtransmission wrote: Alpharius wrote:
If we get resin miniatures that are of the quality shown in that video linked earlier though, well that will be a good thing. But yes, if that's in house - or even contracted - well, this may very well mean more...delays.
Beyond the current delays switching to resin from plastic, they seemed to think that they will have enough for those people that bought wave 1.5, which to be fair probably isn't all that many. They then have almost a year (or more) to stockpile all the others and refine any casting issues before wave 2... So I don't think delays will be a massive thing for most backers. I could be wrong though
Well, delays are already a massive thing for all backers, and given their apparent surprise at how production works...
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Post by: Forar
Forgot to upload the full pics from last week's game.
"Seal the Hell Pit" mission, completed without too much trouble using a Level 1 (leveled to 2 mid mission) Indian Scout, a level 1 (up to 2 mid mission) Rancher, and a level 2 US Marshall.
2
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Post by: BobtheInquisitor
pancakeonions wrote: cincydooley wrote: BobtheInquisitor wrote:That doesn't sound entirely promising, but not a deal breaker necessarily. How would they compare to Bones minis or even Mansion of Madness?
Ehh...I think both Bones and MoM have nicer minis.... that you don't have to fuss with at all.
I agree. I haven't seen MoM minis (are those the Fantasy Flight Arkham Horror minis? If so, those are better too - they're done!) but Bones are in general better than SoB. Some are much better.
Thanks, guys. I guess I'll look into Cthulhu Wars' minis...
Might pick up a few slashers as not-genestealers from FFP, maybe.
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Post by: Forar
A rare Frog sighting in the KS Comments and Update Comments!
Yes, still planning for a Seattle area pick up, but it may now be end of Feb/early March. More details in the coming weeks.
As for Wave 2 news, there's no change to the plan. We are hoping to finalize everything and send out Wave 2 by the end of 2016. This is our best estimate. We don't know what hurdles and delays may come before us, but we will do our best to overcome them and deliver top notch expansion material as soon as we can.
Right now, we are play testing some of the new Heroes - the Wandering Samurai is quite deadly and builds up Fury during combat, which can be used for thematic abilities!
The recent delays should have no impact on the rest of the project. For example, while the dice production was delayed, all dice for the project will be completed this month. Most will ship by ocean freight to be used in packing Wave 2, but enough dice for the Wave 1.5 orders are being air shipped so they can arrive in time. So, no impact on the rest of the project.
While I'm wary of getting too set on believing they'll knock out 3 more Otherworlds, 6 Mission Packs, a good number of enemy packs, and all the other cards and random stuff that need doing in a mere 11 months, much like with the X-Files, I want to believe.
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Post by: Alpharius
I'm guessing this one slips to after CNY 2017.
Damn!
Now I really do wish I'd sprung for that Wave 1.5 shipping.
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Post by: timd
New Frontier Town unboxing video from BGG:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vHPbBm2Bdg
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Post by: streamdragon
FFfffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff
Those new side bag tokens are AMAZING. Considering I've been carrying basically the same herbs and tonic for 4 (5?) levels now, those will DEFINITELY see some use. Especially the hatchets on my Bandida, for when there's no room for Dynamite. (There's always room for Dynamite...)
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Post by: Forar
FYI, from KS comments:
Hey Gang! We're knee deep in sorting and packing right now, but as a quick update- we received the shipment of resin heroes this afternoon and set to task sorting and packing them into 1.5 orders. We were able to get the first truckload to the post office just before they closed! The first Wave 1.5 transport is, indeed, away! We are working on this through the weekend and expect all of Australian 1.5 orders to be out by tomorrow! Then we begin the UK 1.5 orders. Happy gaming!
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Post by: Alpharius
I'm kinda bummed I didn't spring for 1.5 Shipping.
If I was a betting man (I'm not!), I'd wager I won't see the rest of my Minecart pledge until this time 2017.
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Post by: highlord tamburlaine
I kind of wish I went in for 1.5 shipping as well, especially when it was 30 something in the pledge manager.
Not sure why I didn't, it's not like FFP have shown any indication this stuff is coming any time soon. I know they're working on it, but I want my tooooooooys...
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Post by: Forar
I think it started at $40, and went up to $50 when they re-opened it a while back.
And yeah, I remain cautiously optimistic about them wrapping up design/production this year and shipping ASAP, but temper that with the realization it could be another year or more easily, whether because they're still perfecting things or because of stuff beyond their control.
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Post by: Forar
A comment/update; they are up to Canada for shipping, with the US starting once those are sent out. No idea how many 1.5's are coming to the frozen north, but we were the third highest country for backer density.
That said, given how swiftly they've torn through the rest, I'd be shocked if they weren't knee deep in those US orders very soon. The UK had around 50% more backers (no idea if they had a proportional amount of 1.5's, obviously) and they were done in something like 2-3 days.
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Post by: highlord tamburlaine
I actually contacted them about adding in 1.5 shipping.
The amount they told me...was QUITE A BIT more than any of those totals.
I think I need to double check if they thought I was in Canada (as my address is Ontario, CA, as in CAlifornia, not Canada). Hopefully it was a mistake.
We're talking almost triple the amount. For the opportunity for me to help pay their shipping costs? I didn't think that was very cool.
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
I'm sure the problem is the shipping will have gone up (again) since they offered the 1.5 shipping,
so anybody trying to get in on it late is going to end up having to pay a lot more
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Post by: highlord tamburlaine
I still find it a bit silly.
We all paid for shipping already. They're going to have to pay for it one way or the other.
If people are willing (like in my case) to help cover more of that, why penalize them and charge even more outrageous amounts?
It's not like those wave 2 boxes are going to be getting any lighter.
Oh well.
Worst case I just go get stuff from Miniature Market instead.
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Post by: Forar
If they saw "Ontario, CA", then yes, they may have thought Ontario Canada.
If I'm not mistaken, International was $100 to start, $120 or something like that when they offered it a second time.
... and there's your 3-4x factor.
We paid for 1 wave of shipping for everything. Shipping in 2 waves is considerably more than the amount that it would cost to send 2 smaller (but still hefty) packages. A third round of shipping (which we have now) add even more than just for a third set of boxes and labels; they're adding on some temp staff to help move fulfillment along without impacting design/testing/other work as much as it did with wave 1. 1.5 also has enough items and variety possible that I'm guessing Quality Assurance will go up by an order of magnitude; they obviously don't want to send things out that aren't supposed to go to a person (or duplicates, whatever), and they sure as hell don't want to miss something (necessitating yet another package).
It's not ideal, but even if it's "$Unreasonable", at least it's an option.
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Post by: ced1106
So, for those who've received 1.5, have the mini's become better? I finally saw some base game mini's and, no, I'm not going to paint a low-detail hero when I have so many other figures in the queue.
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