Yeah, with a Minecart for the extra round of minis, we're looking at 128 figures with wave one alone, and someone counted up everything all told clocking in around 300+ figures.
That said, one doesn't *need* to assemble, prime and paint all 128/300+ figures at once, and honestly, I'd want to gradually introduce new monsters/play elements over time. Keep changing things up, give time to build at a reasonable pace rather than trying to de-sprue, trim and assemble the entire kit in a weekend, etc.
And it just occurred to me how I'm going to go troll the SoB comments... >.>
Of course, one trade-off you're getting here is that the plastic is much more rigid, and will need to be stored more carefully.
One of the reasons why most boardgames use softer PVC mixes is that it makes the models nearly indestructible - shove them loosely in the game box, put the game box in a backpack/car and travel a few miles, and they'll be perfectly usable at the other end.
I'm not really sure how I'm going to transport all of this!
Bioptic wrote: Of course, one trade-off you're getting here is that the plastic is much more rigid, and will need to be stored more carefully.
One of the reasons why most boardgames use softer PVC mixes is that it makes the models nearly indestructible - shove them loosely in the game box, put the game box in a backpack/car and travel a few miles, and they'll be perfectly usable at the other end.
I'm not really sure how I'm going to transport all of this!
Really? I'd say my Hero Quest minis are 'hard plastic' and they've survived being rattled around in transportation, left in odd places for storage and assorted use and even abuse without much more than two or three snapped weapons in the last quarter of a century.
Also, FFP already use some fairly hard plastic for some of their minis (Fortune and Glory) and they hold up pretty resiliently as well. Last Night on Earth's minis are definitely 'softer', but I wouldn't consider it a massive advantage. If anything, the paint seems to need a bit more touching up, even with static storage and occasional use.
But then, I'm not much of a miniatures guy, and my experiences with plastic (outside the above mentions) are mostly a couple dozen ABS minis from Wyrd, so I'm a bit new to all the variations on Plastic formulaes and restic and whatnot.
Anyone gotten around to reading the rule book? I haven't had time to give it my full attention, but some of the responses in the comments have been pretty positive.
I'm generally on board with FFP game mechanics, so I'm not surprised by this, but figured it was a better topic of conversation than "whom does and does not understand or recognize sarcasm on the internet".
Anyone gotten around to reading the rule book? I haven't had time to give it my full attention, but some of the responses in the comments have been pretty positive.
I'm generally on board with FFP game mechanics, so I'm not surprised by this, but figured it was a better topic of conversation than "whom does and does not understand or recognize sarcasm on the internet".
I like the rulebook. Has a large amount of callouts for edge cases with rules and generally things are well defined.
There are a few balance issues, but nothing too big. (For instance, everyone will probably wind up carrying a second pistol for bossfights, as the "no crits" penalty doesn't matter when the target is immune to crits anyway.)
I think I saw a comment quoting a BGG guy who said that the plan is to launch the PM before wave one ships (...) or at least use the KS survey to collect addresses and proceed from there.
While I respect that the Raging Heroes PM was way later, with this build up, the PM had better cure at least one form of cancer.
It is nice that their updates are pretty huge. I mean, not "KD:M's State of the Game Novella" huge, but compared to the crap that comes from some other projects I'm a part of (RRT, TtB, I'm looking at you), seeing cards and sculpts and whatnot is pretty decent.
It'd just be nice if it was a little more often than once a month.
Having watched a campaign like RRT have weekly updates that essentially say nothing, I'm beginning to think the sweet spot may be roughly every 2 weeks. Often enough to not let people get too antsy around the 3-4 week mark, but not so often that there isn't much to actively talk about.
Though in their somewhat weak defense, they weren't exactly great about communication back during the campaign either. Ideally they'd strive to do better, but I'm not really surprised either.
And due to the aforementioned campaigns, my tolerance for such gak seems to have expanded dramatically. Or my standards have been set way lower than they once were.
Oh well, hopefully we see actual movement in the coming weeks. Unboxing videos, some kind of action to seek out our addresses, etc.
(But not a Pledge Manager - or word on when shipping will begin...)
Update #40
Aug 7 2014
Gen Con Pick-Up RSVP List! Creating the Story Characters! Videos of How to Assemble the Minis! Brimstone Events at Gen Con!
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Greetings Brimstone Heroes!
It's almost time, Gen Con is upon us. I totally understand that to many people, this means very little. But to us at Flying Frog, it means everything. It's the biggest game convention in North America and hits just a couple months before the Fall season of new games and products releasing for the Holidays. So, that means that for game companies, it's hugely important to have your Fall releases at Gen Con. So, every year, game companies struggle, tear their hair out, beg, borrow, and steal to get their games to the show in time. It is always down to the wire. I have talked to friends at several other companies that still don't know if they will make it. Heck, we have some stuff we're trying desperately to get to Gen Con in time, and it may or may not make it for the show or part of the show (it could arrive half way through, or maybe not at all). Sad but true. Pulling back the curtain. You may not like what you see. Hah! For better or worse, Gen Con is our biggest event of the year and as soon as it ends, we start talking about what we'll do next year! It's stressful but awesome and we love it!
The good, no GREAT news, is that we just received our air freight shipment of Shadows of Brimstone for sale at GenCon and the 50 Backers who are on the RSVP List for Gen Con Pick-up! We also just got an air freighted shipment from Europe with the new Shadows of Brimstone Paint Sets: Heroes of the Old West and Creatures of the Void!
Gen Con Pick-Up RSVP List
We had a great response from Backers coming to GenCon wanting to pick-up their copies of the Core Sets at the show. Since there were only fifty slots available, we selected randomly. Without further ado, here is the list (each of them has already been contacted by email):
Dietrich Werntz
Tiara & Adrian Agresta
Will Pattison
Niguel Vega
Brian Wong
sebastian Gurgul
Chris Heuer
Kevin Manning
Cory Scanlan
Adam Sadler
Ryan Zanercik
Mark
twharbert
Eric S. Snyder
Rockford Patrick
Matt Kohls
Michael M Brown
Jeremey
Nick Cantoni
Joe F.
Adam Fortney
Skarmy
Ryan Karr
Jack Norris
Jai: The Batman of Brimstone
Kreation
Crystal Stewart
Mathew Knowlton
Ian Spaulding
Hans House
Tyler Jensen
Crystal Bass
Paul Leone
Jason Dungan
Steve Kozlowski
glasswalkerx
Jeremy Hendrix
Brendan Mayhugh
JOSH ELLINGHAUS
Sari
Steven West
Paul Scadden
Everything Epic Games - Chris Batarlis
Twin Fire Productions
The Irishman
Robert Baker
Eric Else
dvang
Kyle Pinches
Chris Aniballi
We contacted each of these backers and asked for their real name and address as it appears on their Driver's License or Photo ID. We've already heard back from 90% of them, but if you are on this list and have not yet responded with your name and address, you must do so by Friday, August 8th to be able to pick up your games at Gen Con. If one or two of the remaining RSVP list people do not provide the info in time, we will select and contact other RSVP List candidates to take their spot!
Creating the Story Characters
One of the coolest parts of Shadows of Brimstone is the story and world. We always knew that we wanted to call out some notable characters in the game world. The Kickstarter gave us a chance to let some of the Backers be one of these characters (Wanted Level Backers). Here's a look at the process...
Putting Together the Shadows of Brimstone Miniatures
Now that we finally have production game miniatures, we started filming short videos where Designer, Jason C. Hill, shows how to easily assemble the figures. We've just completed the videos for the Swamps of Death Core Set. Take a look...
Shadows of Brimstone Events at Gen Con
Here are some Shadows of Brimstone events we have planned at the booth:
Professional Miniature Painter, Aaron Lovejoy, painted all of the figures shown in the game books for Shadows of Brimstone. He will be at the Flying Frog booth throughout the show, answering questions, and demonstrating his techniques while painting new Shadows of Brimstone figures that will be pictured in future product releases.
This is a rare opportunity to get your Shadows of Brimstone games signed by the whole team! Please note that individual members of the team would be happy to sign your games at the booth any time during the show, but this two-hour event will be the only gathering of everyone (including UK artist, Ralph Horsley – who did the cover art for both core sets!) in one place specifically to sign games.
Dark Stone Rush! Event Sat, 8/16 4-6PM @ FFP Booth #933
Did ya hear the news?!? Thar's a huge chamber filled with Dark Stone deep inside of the North Point Mine! Sure, the dark passages of the mine are filled with mutants, demons, and all manner of unspeakable evil, but is that going to stand in your way of fortune and glory? All comers will grab a Hero and enter the mine for a free-for-all monster hunt and Dark Stone grab! Get enough XP and Dark Stone before being ripped apart and you could walk away with a prize.
Miniature Building with Flying Frog Thurs, 8/14 – Sun, 8/17 @ FFP Booth #933
At the Flying Frog booth, we will have tables dedicated to building your Shadows of Brimstone game models. Meet Shadows of Brimstone Concept Artist, Brian Snoddy, and let him show you how the figures are easily assembled.
That's it for now! We hope to see some of you at Gen Con. If you make it to the show, be sure to stop by and say Hi!
Happy Gaming,
Scott
Now, we're mostly miniature gamers here, so most of us are pretty happy with the direction they went with in terms of material and assembly.
But there are many who are...not happy!
I also wish we knew when shipping was going to start for 'the rest of us' ("THE IRISHMAN" better give us an in-depth review, ASAP! ) - but I'm thinking it will be well after Gencon, because as of right now, they don't even know where to ship anything...
Yeah. How awesome for them that they're going to Gencon and have received a few pallets of boxes to sell there, and even provide a couple to people who already paid for them... Great News(!), GW-style.
I actually don't begrudge that part too much, but it would be nice if they bothered to even pretend that they give a feth about getting something to the rest of us. So I don't really give a gak about their paints and the rest of their bs at this point.
If they remotely want to even begin shipping by the end of the month, they need to fire off the survey after Gencon and give people a week or two to submit information.
Now, given that they seem to have just received the air freighted copies, it seems like a safe bet they're still waiting on the shipped pallets, which may need weeks or even the rest of the month to arrive.
But as I've been saying for months, if they really intend to start shipping in August, even if it's August 31st, they simply have to reach out to the backers en masse, and compiling up to 4,727 responses and printing off thousands of labels is going to take a lot of time.
And honestly, if they have the core boxes in hand, what else is so pressing? Prep for Gencon? Sure! But the boxes are done, QA has been done/may need a little further work, and obviously there's a metric gakton of work to do on wave 2, but seriously, take a break before the convention and reach out to the bloody backers.
Haha. I'll provide a full rundown when I pick it up Wednesday/Thursday.
The comment section following this update are pretty hilarious. Some irate board gamers in there.
I never begrudge a KS for taking their product to GenCon. I typically want the stuff I back to have staying power, and GenCon helps to ensure that. I won't go as far to say people that disagree are selfish, but this KS isn't even really late yet, and by all accounts should ship mostly on time. The me first attitude (which I know I'm benefitting from....I wonder how much these will sell for on eBay....) does make me a little sad.
I think there would be a lot less anger out there if they'd just clearly:
1) Ask for everyone's shipping address!
2) Tell everyone when Wave 1 will ship, approximately!
3) Tell everyone when the Pledge Manager will be released!
Personally I'd always say go and take the stuff with you if I was asked by a project creator (as infact Impact did on their first chibi project)
but
With this becoming a more and more obvious issue from many KS projects they should really be upfront about the whole thing
stick a line in the FAQs saying that
"while we will try to ship to backers first we WILL take the game/minis to Gencon (other convention) even if backer shipping has not yet finished (or started). We believe that attending Gencon (other convention) with product to sell is vital for the long term health of the game and the company as this is the biggest shop window in out industry and we can't wait an extra year before being able to display the game/mins. If you you disagree with his policy we reluctantly suggest that you don't back the KS and wait for normal retail sales of the game/mini"
This may have been answered & I just missed it but... when is this expected to open for retail? I couldn't afford the KS & I know taking it to gencon (aside from robotech tactics)is a good sign. I'm a huge weird west/steampunk/cthulhu fan.
Alpharius wrote: There are places where you can pre-order the 2 'core' boxes, but I'm not sure that their estimated delivery dates are all that 'firm'.
Bottom line - no one knows yet.
The Kickstarter comments page for this one has been way quieter than I'd thought it would be recently.
Though I do see that the Crimson Ghost has returned, and he's still in Angry Boardgamer Mode.
I wonder what these people would be like if they encountered a real "assembly required" game like Malifaux. After several hours attempting to attach the Viktorias' legs properly, the SoB minis look laughably simple.
Seems Crimson Ghost has it in for irish quite a bit -
If you got into an accident on your way there an ended up a red streak on the highway lets just say i wouldnt lose sleep over it...
I have no idea how some people can get so worked up over a game, and I often see the same people kicking off on every Boardgame kickstarter comment page. If they hate every project they back so much why do they keep backing them!
The fighting has brought Jason onto the comments section again to answer some questions so I asked him about EU shipping -
As we announced during the KS campaign, the Core Sets will be shipping from within the EU and will be sent directly to Europe from China. I can’t really go into any more on that just yet though, as we are still finalizing all of the details.
So looks like EU shipping for the Core Sets is still planned with them going straight to EU from China but details not yet finalised (hopefully they can finalise soon as they are meant to be on a boat in the near future). Jason does say core sets shipping from EU which leads me to wonder if perhaps the stretch goals and addons will ship from the US.
@ Joe – “It has been mentioned that all the stretch goals (phase 2 shipping) will be doled out to retail over a period of years to not overwhelm those channels, but I have not seen mentioned what time frame we Kickstarter backers could expect for delivery of all the remaining items. Any rough ideas (3/6/9 months or are we talking years too)?” – Well, we don’t have a solid delivery estimate for Wave 2 yet, but I can tell you that it won’t be ‘Years’ by any stretch. There is a lot of content that still needs to be designed, tested, sculpted, painted, layout, and production, not to mention manufacturing, packing, and shipping time. It will not be within the 3 or 6 month timeframe. We are working hard though to make the best game and the best content we can and we would rather have everything be awesome than everything be fast. We have broken a lot of ground getting the process sorted by doing the Core Sets and now it is a matter of creating the vast amount of content needed to cover all of the additional material.
and
@ Jason – “is there a chance that the KS might ship in 3 waves? Or it is 100% 2 waves?” – Based on the extremely high costs of shipping (especially for international), we can’t afford to do more than 2 Waves of shipping. That being said, we are talking about possibly offering one or two additional intermediate waves of shipping for an extra cost in the pledge manager. We’ll have to wait until the PM hits and that is finalized before I have any more info though.
@ Ken Hiseler – The extra Red set of figures will also ship with Wave 1.
@ Alex Colbert – “are you still going to let us buy additional pledges in the pledge manager? For example, I have a Minecart but added $150 on top of that to buy an additional Outlaw level in the PM. Is this still an option? Also, If you have the PM available before shipment of Wave 1 and we buy additional core sets (as part of a pledge or individually) will they ship with Wave 1?” – That is something that we are discussing right now as the costs for production are higher than originally anticipated. I can’t say for sure just yet.
@ William Cunningham – “How long do you think the pledge manager will be live?” – I really can’t say just yet. Still needs to be finalized.
and
@ Jonathan Buchalter – “Will we be able to upgrade to minecart via the pledge manager? I for one full intend to do so if able?” – Again, due to production costs being higher than anticipated, I can’t say one way or another just yet. That won’t really be finalized until the PM goes live.
The above answers dont really surprise me. From the start I wondered how they could produce so many unique sculpts for the price they were offering but in the end I decided to flip a coin and pledge the $175 for the base games (with no additions planned) with the understanding that it might all fall in a financial heap.
Really though, as long as the base games are in the marketplace I think the game can be a great success (which should help speed up the wave 2 shipments) but there will be alot of butthurt people/comments.
FFP needs to take some ReaperBryan lessons and say No. The funding ended LAST YEAR and backers still want the same discounts they had during the campaign.
That's a rather narrow view on the matter, considering the backers were specifically told they'd be able to upgrade pledge tiers and add extra copies of tiers onto their pledges. Repeatedly, as I recall.
Yes, I recognize that costs have changed, however, that is something they needed to account for in their business model. It's on them to only offer what they can justify/afford, and to build in what contingency funds/resources are necessary to accommodate those choices.
It's a bit late to say "omg, ooops, this gak is expensive" when part of the draw into the rather expensive campaign tier was "OMG GUYS IT'S LIKE HALF A GRAND BUT YOU GET SOOOOO MUUUUUUCH STUUUUUUUUUFF!"
Hmm this is all pointing towards a... less than ideal.. situation for me. Oh well, if it comes to it, I'll give that $519 to somebody else and they can keep the $1 I already gave them lol
ced1106 wrote: FFP needs to take some ReaperBryan lessons and say No. The funding ended LAST YEAR and backers still want the same discounts they had during the campaign.
Oh, wait. Boardgamers. Nevermind.
Another way to look at it is that funding ended a year ago and they still haven't gotten their gak together and gotten the pledge manager out when we are now at the date we are supposed to have ALL of the items. In hand.
And, oops. You can have the rest of your stuff some day in the future, but not in the 3-6 month timeframe. So expect another year.
So don't carry their water. It's pretty stagnant water. It might even be urine.
To be fair, at least they recognized early on (during the KS, I believe?) that there'd be two waves of shipping.
And I don't know about you, but my bar is at least set low enough that when a project says it'll be shipping in August, even starting to get boxes in the mail by midnight on the last day of the month is considered a victory.
I mean, I'm not blind to the possibility that it'll be September or beyond before they start going out, for any number of reasons (Con-Crud takes them all out for a week, ship is delayed, box gets held up in customs, Kaiju attacks the factory, whatever).
Hopefully they get the KS survey out to snag our addresses and start getting stuff in the mail by the end of the month. I think that'd be a good start.
@Brian – It will take some time for all of the Stretch Goals and Add-Ons to go through production and manufacturing, but the plan is to get them to backers as soon as we can. This will likely be in waves, some shipping with the Core Sets, some afterward. These logistics will become more clear over the coming months.
Oct 24 2013 on Shadows of Brimstone.
That's just a cursory search of their comments for the word "waves".
@Brian – It will take some time for all of the Stretch Goals and Add-Ons to go through production and manufacturing, but the plan is to get them to backers as soon as we can. This will likely be in waves, some shipping with the Core Sets, some afterward. These logistics will become more clear over the coming months.
Oct 24 2013 on Shadows of Brimstone.
That's just a cursory search of their comments for the word "waves".
I guess I never noticed it because I didn't trawl the cesspool of the comments in that campaign. I only, you know, looked at their front page, where you might have thought it was a reasonable place to put that kind of info. Or in the FAQ section. But really, what I got was "we're Flying Frog, not some fething newbs at this. We've been working on it for 5 years - all we need to do is press the button and fill a minecart up with backer funds and this baby is set to roll."
It's reasonable to an extent, but their timeframe, (lack of) communication and treatment of backers isn't so much.
No argument there. Their communication has been pretty bad from the start, at least in terms of frequency and clarity. I applaud the sizable updates we do get, I like that they will even duck into the comments once in a while to this day, it'd be nice if they made a point of at least addressing some of the common topics that come up in those Q&As in the updates as well.
It's not the frequency, it's the style of content and lack of addressing things like the PM. It's only started to bother me recently. I was happy to ignore it for the first several months.
MangoMadness wrote: A bit painful to watch but thanks to Derek for sharing, it certainly makes me want to get my copy and crack it open thats for sure.
They'd need to ask us where to send them for that...
Maybe using a rolled up newspaper and then rubbing their nose in the mess they made?
... what, I'm allowed to be a little cranky once in a while too.
The KS survey to collect our addresses in the next week would be nice. Take a week to compile information and get things started, start shipping by the end of August.
... or admit that it won't be until September because of Customs/transit issues/QA concerns/reasons.
At this point, I'm more interested in when the WAVE 2 stuff is projected to ship, and I'm a bit concerned that we're probably going to hear "GENCON 2015" for it...
Well, they have the core sets done, and at a glance they have... like eight hundred and ninety stretch goals/add ons to work on.
Hell, I'll be happy if we have everything by Gencon 2016.
But that might just be Wyrd and Palladium setting my expectations *low* here.
Edit: Okay, it's more like 80 or 90 different things, but those include a pretty sizable number of sculpts, cards (artwork), and playtesting to cover. I'd love to have wave 2 entirely done by GC 2015, but considering they were talking about a 'mid wave shipping' option, I'm leaning towards setting the bar super low here.
Azazelx wrote: So.. no updates on Wave 2 or the Pledge Manager? Or on Wave 1, for that matter?
Have the comments turned ugly yet?
No updates yet.
Comments have been upbeat actually. Lots of chatter with people who got early copies and discussion about the game and gameplay.
Of course there's the occasional "Ermagherd I actually have to assemble the miniatures in a miniatures game? FFP are the Devil! I lack skills most 10 year olds possess!"
Like I told you alph, they're not bad, but they feel like, for lack of a better term, "last generation HIPS". The detail isn't awful, and the casts are pretty clean.
But it's more reminiscent of the lighter grey HIPS that GW used to use that seems more prone to mould lines and gaps.
I need to find a better place to host my photos and then I'll get a bunch uploaded here.
cincydooley wrote: Like I told you alph, they're not bad, but they feel like, for lack of a better term, "last generation HIPS". The detail isn't awful, and the casts are pretty clean.
But it's more reminiscent of the lighter grey HIPS that GW used to use that seems more prone to mould lines and gaps.
I need to find a better place to host my photos and then I'll get a bunch uploaded here.
A friend I was with at GenCon* said he was disappointed in the drop in quality from the resin masters to the production plastics. He says they're still a step above most boardgame figures, but not at the quality expected given the production style (multi-part HIPS). So it looks like FFP have managed to disappoint both ends of the spectrum. Not really good enough for hobbyists/painters, and too many components for boardgamers. I'm kinda in the middle, so I'm not that phazed.
* He's much more a purist on figures than I, I don't mind Mantic figures, and they're apparently anathema to quality. Really, with the exception of Robotech Tactics, I can live with most models.
Though as Forar points out, having the "estimated assembly time" blow out by 6-8 hours or so (at least two people said 12-16 man hours for the two boxes), when they were claiming 30 minutes per box, isn't heartening either. Granted, that number should have been taken with salt when the videos totalled 45 minutes, and in at least the Hellbats video, only covered a third of the actual miniatures.
I'm still looking forward to the game, but there are definitely some caveats on my enthusiasm.
I'm pretty experienced so maybe I'm an outlier, but I assembled (and anal retentatively cleaned) one box in about 90 mins with my very pregnant wife nagging me the whole time to not get gak on her freshly vacuum carpet. The models are very easy to assemble.
If the humidity goes down, I may prime a model tonight/ this weekend and slap some paint on it to see how they look then.
At least the mold lines on all mine have been mostly in places easy to clean. Along the border between the top and bottom of the goliath's tentacles, for instance. Also, I'd say the heroes have a bit more detail than the monsters, except for the Saloon Girl. (Note that the Saloon Girl is one of the few single piece models.)
Most of the models have taken me awhile, but I'm also being a bit anal about cleaning mold lines and had to deal with the hardware store selling ethyl acetate as MEK which doesn't work nearly as well for gluing models together.
cincydooley wrote: I'm pretty experienced so maybe I'm an outlier, but I assembled (and anal retentatively cleaned) one box in about 90 mins with my very pregnant wife nagging me the whole time to not get gak on her freshly vacuum carpet. The models are very easy to assemble.
If the humidity goes down, I may prime a model tonight/ this weekend and slap some paint on it to see how they look then.
I do appreciate you taking the time to do that - I'm looking forward to these pics...
A pic of a primed model will do a long way towards quelling fears.
Here's the close up of his wings and back of the neck. You can see that there's some gaps there. They're minor, but they're there. You can also see some of the mould lines that I've yet to clean up.
Here's his front/crotch area. As you can see there are some MAJOR gaps here that will require greenstuffing, both in the hips and in the shoulders.
I forget this guy's name, but this model actually isn't too bad
You can see on his back there's a bit of a seam that would use some greenstuffing down the middle
This little flying beastie is actually pretty solid. No gaps. No major problems
Here's the Padre miniature. It was a one piece model. As you can see, the detail is decent enough, if not a little bit shallow.
Here's the Native American hero. He's solid, but his nose is pretty jacked up:
The models aren't TERRIBLE, but for hard plastic they're pretty damn unimpressive, especially when compared to this guy:
That's the Pride model from The Others - 7 Sins, the new Guillotine Games/ Studio McVey game. He came in one piece and is a harder PVC material. He looks incredible.
As you can see here on his back, the detail on him is pretty unreal for PVC, and thats even taken with my crappy iPad camera:
Automatically Appended Next Post: And here are some comparison shots so you can get an idea of the actual detail level vs. some Comparable products:
Here's the harbinger next to the big Myth Creepy crawly. To the eye, the Myth model is far more detailed
This is the Clawed crab dude from Shadows next to an Orc from Myth
Myth hero model next to the Shadows Padre, again
Shadows Padre next to the Zombicide Priest from one of the Guest Artists boxes
And the Shadows Gunslinger next to a Zombicide survivor, again from an Artist Box.
Thanks for the pics Cincey. The Brimstone stuff does look a little "last generation" injection plastic, but it will glue and file well which is a big plus in my book.
That "Pride" miniature from McVey does indeed look good. I'm crossing my fingers for this 'next generation' pvc material, but I will have to see, hold, glue and clean it to believe it.
Thanks a lot for the pics. I'd put in for a buck planning to increase to Outlaw when the pledge manager came out (although guessing they probably aren't going to allow increases considering how close to retail it all is now). Looking at those minis, I'll probably pick up one of the sets at retail just for the boardgame value. The extra shinies don't seem particularly compelling anymore.
Thanks Cincy. When I was looking at the pics, I was thinking "sure, but these are pre-release prototypes, so the final versi-- oh that's right - they released the game at Gencon.
Oh well, maybe we'll get a pledge manager in September.
*facepalm*
Edit: though I suppose it could be a moot point if they don't have their container in hand yet. Which would also be a pertinent detail it'd be nice to have some news regarding.
Look, I've been pretty upbeat and understanding about this.
But frankly, if they want me to remotely believe that they're going to start shipping anytime soon, they need to start acting like it. Which means asking for our information with the survey.
At this point I've got a hunch that whomever is working furiously on the pledge manager keeps saying "it's almost ready guys! Just one more day, maybe two!" and has been for the last week or month.
They need to cut the bull and either act like they're about to start shipping, or admit that something has gone wrong (container stuck in customs like Palladium's was, accident on the highway/rail that has things tied up for another week or two, box was eaten by a Kaiju, etc).
I mean, I'm not mad per se, just frustrated/baffled how fething long one pledge manager can take. Waiting on the survey until they were absolutely ready makes sense; they can only send it once, so waiting until they're about to start shipping minimizes the risk of packages being sent to the wrong addresses due to people moving or other reasons, but they're supposed to be starting ASAP, so make with the addressening, or cop to what's wrong.
I have to say that between this, Robotech, and Cthulhu Wars, I've gotten seriously disillusioned with gaming kickstarters.
I think All Quiet was the only one that wasn't a huge cluster, and even that one was late about six months for the first wave and had piss-poor communications.
The way some of these places act it's like they get charged for every update they post.
Yeah, between that and being rather short on cash due to some bullgak earlier this year, it's probably going to take quite a bit to get me to bite hard on any others for a while.
Through the Breach finally delivering was nice, year late that it was (well, hopefully the hardcover they still owe half of the backers doesn't take another 6 months), but Robotech has definitely soured me, and it's making me a little antsy here.
That said, I'll keep giving Dwarven Forge money no problem. Those guys make an amazing product, and seem to be able to hold to a timetable.
Forar wrote: Yeah, between that and being rather short on cash due to some bullgak earlier this year, it's probably going to take quite a bit to get me to bite hard on any others for a while.
Through the Breach finally delivering was nice, year late that it was (well, hopefully the hardcover they still owe half of the backers doesn't take another 6 months), but Robotech has definitely soured me, and it's making me a little antsy here..
Gawd, I forgot about TTB. The managed to stretch that one out long enough that by the time they delivered I no longer gave my damn. On the positive side the Ebaying is going well and it looks like I'll break out ahead of even even before the hardcovers arrive. So, either free hardcovers or some profit there.
Oh, and CoC 7th edition...so so far from reality....please, someone supply ETAs that are somewhat remotely possible...
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Alpharius wrote: I don't know why, but...I'm surprised that we haven't gotten an update on this one yet today.
Fairly ballsy for a company sitting on $1.3M of backers funds.
Yes, the Gen Con excuse has run dry for everyone about a week ago.
It's like there's some sort of solidarity movement -'all these companies determined to try to make Palladium Books look slightly less derptarded. It won't work, guys, it makes you look worse, not them look better.
Probably the only KS that I've dealt with so far that I would do repeat business with without question will be when SJG does Car Wars. Unlike all these other KS, at no point did I feel like I was being lied to, or just generally screwed.
Merijeek wrote: I have to say that between this, Robotech, and Cthulhu Wars, I've gotten seriously disillusioned with gaming kickstarters.
Strange. I thought CW did a good job of keeping in touch with the backers. What problems did you have with it? What requirements do you have for a KS and what KS projects have fulfilled them? TIA.
I do have a guideline (which I break often) of not backing the first KS of a creator. Despite using Panda Manufacturing, CW made the mistake of actually believing what the manufacturer said. Rookies!
As for RPGs, I hear more of delays than successes. I guess that's not surprising, since the barrier to entry to become an RPG company is much lower -- if you put out a PDF on DriveThruRPG, you're an RPG company. The CoC campaign had far more working parts from other companies compared to even the largest miniature KS. (The Horror mini's are *nice* though!) Since I'm interested in a good read more than a fancy cover, I just stick to PDF from DriveThruRPG, which I don't have to wait a year for. But, if anyone has an RPGKS post-mortem of a successful RPGKS, please let me know!
Anyway, Shadows is at least hitting the (online) stores. I didn't back but am following the GameZone, ADW, and Palladium KS. Sheeeeeeesh.
Merijeek wrote: I have to say that between this, Robotech, and Cthulhu Wars, I've gotten seriously disillusioned with gaming kickstarters.
Strange. I thought CW did a good job of keeping in touch with the backers. What problems did you have with it? What requirements do you have for a KS and what KS projects have fulfilled them? TIA.
Honestly, I agree that CW has done a good job on communication. So they get good marks on that and as a matter of fact, that combined with the general quality of everything I actually bumped myself to a top tier pledge at the very end of the reopened pledge period. Don't tell my wife.
However, when you hit a two stage delivery situation, you've seriously screwed up. Unless it was the pan from the beginning, which would indicate everything going according to plan, rather than patching to afterwards. So, there's a strike.
Then there's having two waves, and not even having the first (absolute minimum) wave out nine months (and counting) from their original ETA is something I consider another strike.
And for me it's not a matter of being late, it's a matter of "How the hell did you come up with a date that is so ridiculously detached from reality, and why would I expect your next one to be anything other than either lies or delusion?"
Plus, the last thing I've seen close to an ETA said September. And like every other KS, if that were going to happen, that means the boat would be loaded and steaming this way. Since it seems super likely that September is already impossible, that is the kind of thing that backers should be informed of. Of course it's NOWHERE near as bad as FFP pulling their drive-by "...shipping might last for three months kthxbai!!!"
TLDR version - So, CW has done a great job on communication. But I don't think they've done a good job of managing or meeting expectations.
Wait -- what was the two-stage delivery system? Sorry, missed on that one in the updates.
No disagreements here. I think the first-timers are slowly learning that you need someone on site at these manufacturing plants to be on top of this, not that that's particularly possible. The culture and language barrier don't help, either. Myth had some sort of problems with their shipping, resulting in a delay of over a month. A dice KS was delayed a month because of manufacturer QC problems. Even though Reaper had a Bones line before its KS, a communication error resulted in one of the models being MUCH larger than intended (good news for the backers, at least!). I'm sure this happens all the time at retail, BUT we don't hand over our money to them until the product's at the stores.
ced1106 wrote: Wait -- what was the two-stage delivery system? Sorry, missed on that one in the updates.
In what has become basically standard at this point (yet strangely is always done like its a concession because of how much they love their backers) CW will be shipping the core sets (allegedly September at last update, but I'm fairly convinced that's an impossibility at this point) first an all the expansions and such...eventually.
They haven't even hazarded even the most WAG timeline on those. I'm betting Gen Con (naturally....) which will put actually finishing your totally-not-preorder right around 20 months late from the original ETA.
Anyway, FFP posted a very brief message on facebook -
"An update will be coming in the next few days, but most of the team is recovering from sickness - between GenCon, PAX, and all of the traveling, a bug has spread through the Frog."
As for the price, that's to be expected too. Australia get rogered but good, when it comes to international shipping, customs, distributor fees, and other costs. I definitely think there's a "Screw you for living in Australia, and we don't" tax. That'd explain the significant discrepancy in GW costs. Back when the $AU was above parity on the $US, the base box set from GW Australia was more than 70% above what the same box was from GW US/UK. Just something we have to live with, or work around.
Dont get me wrong, I was highlighting the price, the reason I put the 'coming soon' was to avoid confusion so people didnt think that they were actually advertising stock on hand
The price is the significant factor, even at the 'discounted' price of $120 the KS price is an awesome bargain
Yeah, 'con crud' is totally a thing, and I can respect that.
But they really need to realize that updates don't have to be 4 pages long. They can totally reach out to us just to say "look, you haven't been forgotten, we know you're antsy about a few things, we'll be getting back to you soon when we can all keep solid food down again".
Just wrapped up a 4 day convention, and between long hours, hard work and yelling over a Starcraft 2 tournament that was happening 30 feet from the booth (which was awesome to watch, including getting a pic with a legend of professional SC2!), I wrapped up that con in rough shape. 36 hours of doing nothing but drinking warm liquids and staying off my feet only helped so much, and a week later I'm still recuperating, though it's mostly going away.
Anyway, 2 cons back to back, especially big ones like these, are quite an effort alright, but at the same time, it's not like they didn't know these were coming. It's unfortunate that they fell within the delivery window, but that's kind of how they planned it.
Oh well. Meh. Minor bits of ire vented, hopefully they can get back to us and let us know some rather important info that's outstanding.
- Do they actually have the first container in hand yet?
- When will the PM/Survey go out? Better yet, just send the damned thing, the running gag is wearing thin.
- What is going on with being able to upgrade a pledge? If $480 for a Mine Cart is still 'losing them money' (seriously? In punching plastic and cardboard?), surely some kind of reasonable compromise can be reached? $500? $525? I'm having a hard time believing the costs have shot up like 50% here. This one my buddy and I are very keen on, especially since we've offered them $600, essentially.
- What is going on with being able to add additional tiers? I'm not sweating this, but I know some people with friends looking to hop onboard. I think it's possible and even reasonable that if costs are really that tight, this option may have to be abandoned, but I can respect that even if it's not important to me, it's probably important to somebody.
Milsims - like most Australian Retailers pulls their "RRP" out of their arseholes in order to make their online prices look more attractive. Go to a few different Aussie retailers and see the difference in "RRP" for Zombiecide. When I did that as a little research thingy last year, I found about a $50 variance in "AU RRP" on the base set alone...
When I did that as a little research thingy last year, I found about a $50 variance in "AU RRP" on the base set alone...
Sure, but Milsims are generally around the Aussie price point so if we say that the aussie price point is +/- 15% of Milsims $120 then the KS is still a pretty good deal.
Alex C wrote: They only said they're losing money on SOME Mine Cart pledge levels.
For some reason a lot of people have mistakenly read that as ALL Mine Cart levels and/or Outlaw levels.
As of August 7th, and their second last comment to date;
@ Jonathan Buchalter – “Will we be able to upgrade to minecart via the pledge manager? I for one full intend to do so if able?”
– Again, due to production costs being higher than anticipated, I can’t say one way or another just yet. That won’t really be finalized until the PM goes live.
I can't see a reason not to take on more of them if the 480's are self sufficient. It's basically a license to print money from upgrading Outlaws, unless they're looking longer term at how many players they already have on the hook and are thinking "y'know, we'd make even more with retail sales..."
But yeah, that issue remains a month outstanding, and until they spoke up there, we hadn't had any reason (that I can recall) to doubt their word from during the campaign.
Gencon and PAX are indeed busy times of year, but they really shouldn't drop gak like that in a comment if they're not ready to answer it officially, unless they simply wanted whatever controversy that might happen to burn out while they were away.
Regardless of everything we've heard/read so far since Gencon, I still cannot believe they haven't said anything 'officially' via the KS comments section or, more importantly, the update system!
Azazelx wrote: Well, I think we've all learned a few valuable lessons about backing any further Kickstarters from Flying Frog at least.
Get in at those first few opening moments so they lose money on our pledges?
Sick as I can get at times, that has never deterred me from being able to sit at a computer to waste time. My students are constantly sick too, and are more than happy to share their germs with me.
If I can find time to bang out complete sentences with correct punctuation, despite my currently watering eyes, runny nose, fever, and intense sinus headache, I think those Frogs could put together a few words to let us all know how things are going.
Hell, dictate it to someone else on staff and have them bang on the keyboard!
Well during the funding period Mary Beth could barely type for more than 15 minutes without her hands exploding or having to take her dog out for a crap (which apparently took more than 5 minutes making her unable to return to the comments), so con crud has probably rendered them immobile in the emergency room without access to a computer for at least 3 weeks.
It has got to be the ol' "CRAP! It is bad news, so therefore we'll give NO NEWS! I'm sure the 4700+ backers will just forget about all of this if we just don't talk about it..." routine!
Sick as I can get at times, that has never deterred me from being able to sit at a computer to waste time.
Exactly!
Even just a quick word in the Comments Section can get that point across, quickly.
They likely see making comments or updates as "work", therefore if they're too sick to go to work they feel like they shouldn't have to interact with backers.
Reports from Gen Con and PAX! Seattle Pick Up! Pledge Manager! Wave One Shipping Begins Soon! Essen Pick Up?!? 1 comment
Liked 3 likes Hello Brimstone Fans!
Rumors of our untimely demise from Con Flu were exaggerated...but not by much! Most of the team fell prey to sickness from the nearly back-to-back game-fests known as Gen Con and PAX Prime. We are recovering, but there is little time to rest with the flood of action taking place in the next days and weeks! Let's jump right into it, starting with news from Gen Con and PAX...
Gen Con and PAX Gen Con is our biggest event each year and this year was no exception! We had a large booth in the Exhibit Hall and all of our games were demoed and sold at the booth. The main attraction, of course, was Shadows of Brimstone! We had Pro-Painter, Aaron Lovejoy, at the booth answering questions and demonstrating his painting techniques. He was actually working on upcoming figures for Shadows of Brimstone! So, it was a good sneak preview as well as a showcase for his painting techniques.
Fifty KS Backers were on the RSVP List for Gen Con Pick Up and got their games at the booth throughout the show. On Sunday, we got even more KS Backers their games! We were very excited to meet each of the Backers and personally thank them for supporting Flying Frog and the project.
We also had tables set up for gamers to build their Shadows of Brimstone game models and a big game signing on Friday, including the Flying Frog team and UK Artist, Ralph Horsley, who did the cover art for both core sets.
On Saturday at Gen Con, we had a huge Brimstone Event called 'Dark Stone Rush'! It was an epic adventure with 16 players simultaneously running through a huge fixed mine board. As heroes died, new players took their spot, so many gamers got the chance to take part in the game. Heroes fought all manner of creatures while hunting for Dark Stone! Along the way, they revealed hidden treasures in crates throughout the mine. These held both in-game goodies like Gear and Artifacts and real world prizes like Flying Frog Games!
The event was a rare chance for both Jason and Scott to run a special one-time event mission. At the end of the event, everyone who played and even those that watched got to grab a random Shadows of Brimstone game miniature in special Red colored plastic. It was a great time for all involved and we can't wait to come up with another special event for next year!
PAX Prime was hot on the heels of Gen Con and offered another opportunity for us to meet, chat with, and personally thank many of our KS Backers! Everyone we talked to was very excited about the game and most got their first chance to demo at the show. We were pleased to hear over and over again that the game lived up to their great expectations!
A large display case showed off the prototypes of upcoming Shadows of Brimstone miniatures. Here you can see the male and female Wandering Samurai. A large display case showed off the prototypes of upcoming Shadows of Brimstone miniatures. Here you can see the male and female Wandering Samurai. We had limited supplies of the Shadows of Brimstone Core Sets for sale at the shows and the lucky gamers who picked up a copy were thrilled and have already begun to spread the word on the internet and in their gaming communities! We also had the opportunity to do some interviews and press at the shows. So, while it was incredibly expensive to air freight advanced copies of the games, it was worth it for the good word of mouth and publicity generated!
PAX was the first reveal of the giant Dark Stone Hydra! In this image, you can also see the Void Hound, Undead Outlaw, Flesh Stalker, Dark Stone Brutes, Dark Stone Pylon, and some of the Scafford Gang. PAX was the first reveal of the giant Dark Stone Hydra! In this image, you can also see the Void Hound, Undead Outlaw, Flesh Stalker, Dark Stone Brutes, Dark Stone Pylon, and some of the Scafford Gang. Pledge Manager!!!
After months of planning and preparation, the Pledge Manager will launch later this week! We have a few changes from the original Kickstarter page and lots of new surprises in store! The changes are based on the evolution of the game since we did the Kickstarter last year. We were always careful to make things fair when any changes were needed. For example, the biggest change needed was for an early Stretch Goal ($140K) - giving an extra copy of the standard room tiles and passage tiles. At the time, we thought that it might be interesting to have extras for players to make pre-fixed mine boards. As the game developed more, that stretch goal became less interesting and not very useful. At the same time, we realized that we really should have had a set of "Frontier Bandit" enemies for use in the Frontier Town Expansion (and in the mines). So, we decided to drop the useless extra passages and standard rooms and replace them with a brand new set of Frontier Bandit enemies! We are confident that Backers would prefer getting more NEW content over duplicate components.
We also added some new items to the Pledge Manager, including a few of the items that were close, but not quite unlocked by the end of the Kickstarter. There are even a few brand new items that were developed after the close of the Kickstarter! It should be very exciting and we can't wait to go live with the Pledge Manager!
Wave 1 Shipping Starts
The first ocean freight container of Shadows of Brimstone Core Sets has arrived in Seattle!!!
Due to a production delay at the factory that manufactures the dice, they did not have enough dice to fill all of the games in this first container before the shipment had to depart. We have been working closely with the factory to get all of the dice we need and they will be air freighting the missing dice to us this week! (All further shipments of games will have the dice packed inside the Core Set boxes as normal) Right now, we are unpacking the shipment and getting everything ready. Any dice not packed inside a game box will be included in a small zip bag in the same Wave 1 package.
Wave 1 Shipping should begin as early as mid-late next week!!! This will include backers from the US and everywhere in the world except the EU (due to EU backers having their games shipped from within the EU, which means they have to be handled separately, as detailed below).
EU Wave 1 Shipping and Possible Essen Pick-up
As promised, we will be shipping out Wave 1 to all of our EU backers from within the EU, starting in late October! A shipping container of games is loaded and will be heading out from China directly to the EU Next week! Ocean freight travel to Europe from China can take some time though, so it will be arriving in mid-October and, once it is through customs, we will be unpacking the container and preparing backer shipments to go out.
This means that we may have the opportunity for an Essen pick-up for KS Backers! We are working hard to get games to Europe in time for the show. Any European backers that will be attending the Essen Game Fair and would like to Pick-up their games in person, to get the games a few weeks early and get them signed by the creative team on the project, will be able to RSVP to get on a list of EU Backer pick-ups. Unlike Gen Con or PAX though, assuming the games arrive in time for the show, any and all backers that would like to pick-up their Wave 1 games at Essen will be able to do so.
But, before we can start taking RSVPs for an Essen Pick-up, we need to be reasonably sure that the games will arrive in time. Therefore, the RSVPs will not open just yet, but hopefully sometime in the next few weeks, as we get closer to the show and have a better idea if the container will arrive in time to get through customs and unload a small portion of it to bring to the fair.
Seattle Pick Up While we were at PAX Prime in Seattle, so many KS Backers that we talked to asked if we were doing a Seattle Area Pick-Up. It seemed possible because we are based in the Seattle-area. Over the course of the show, we went from "Oh, that's an interesting idea" to "We may try to do something" to "We need to do a Seattle area pick up!" based on the interest level and enthusiasm of Backers that we talked to. So, we are very excited to say that we have secured an amazing location and have just finalized the details:
Shadows of Brimstone Kickstarter Seattle Pick-Up
4-10PM Saturday, September 13th
@ Spooked in Seattle
102 Cherry St.
Seattle, WA 98104
It will be a fun time where KS Backers can come pick up their games, meet the development team, have any of your FFP games signed, see previews of new Shadows of Brimstone content from Wave 2, play Shadows of Brimstone game demos, and even put together your figures! The location of the event is in Pioneer Square in the heart of downtown Seattle. Spooked in Seattle has walking tours of haunted Seattle sights at 6 and 8:15PM that day and KS Backers get a discounted rate! We need to know how many people are coming to the Seattle Pick-up, so please RSVP as soon as possible to admin@flyingfrog.net.
That's it for the moment, but watch your email this week for more news about the Pledge Manager!
Thanks,
Scott and Jason
As noted in the comments, I'll believe that the PM is coming when it actually arrives. Not getting my hopes up after this long, folks.
Also noted in the comments from FFP - you WILL be able to upgrade from OUTLAW to MINE CART, but it will be at an as of yet unknown "ROUND 9" level price!
Interesting to see that we'll be able to purchase stuff that wasn't quite reached during the campaign, AND new stuff too.
But given how craptastic their communication has been to date, I'm not sure if I'll be rewarding them with money above and beyond my "Mine Cart Credit"
Mine Cart 8 is $480. They said way back when that if they allowed upgrading, it probably wouldn't have the credit.
There is no Mine Cart 9 in the campaign. They've mentioned in passing that the production costs are higher than they anticipated, so I'm simply putting those two bits together and assuming that as a compromise (compared to not letting people upgrade) they might have a slightly more expensive version that still lacks the credit. Rounding out nicely to $500 (and a mere $20 kick over what was available to the end) might be that compromise.
Maybe even higher, but considering the reasonable things to be frustrated with during this campaign, I can't seem them bumping it up much more than 10%. If nothing else, doing so, while meaning the 1-8 tiers got a great deal, also means someone done fethed up the math somewhere.
Azazelx wrote: Did anyone else find that their response to the first 85% of that update was some variation of "I don't give a feth" ? It was certainly mine.
I didn't care for the bulk of the update, but that was mostly because everything they mentioned about the cons and stuff was stuff I had already read about, when it was occurring.
It was nice to see new sculpts in the update, like the raptor and the hydra.
Alpharius wrote: Best line I've read in the KS Comments for this one was:
"...the crappiest crap that ever crapped."
Bravo Forar, Bravo!
Thank you.
I'll say this much, kudos on CG for admitting he may have gone a bit overboard in his previous commentary.
Because yeah, I'm pretty sure going back through his comments in the last month would be... enlightening.
I respect that the minis not being single pieces like their previous figures was jarring for some, but you'd think FFP had violated their stuffed animals and made them watch from the way some people were overreacting. I don't fault people for being surprised or disappointed or frustrated, but a few guys were practically making it performance art.
So, the pledge manager is supposed to go live 'soon' (well, 'the end of this week', and unless they intend to work on the weekend, that's kinda today...), what's everyone thinking of getting.
Credit to spend on extras from a higher Mine Cart? Extra cash flat out?
Between my friend and I, we're... already in for a good chunk of extras cash, so if they do unlock the 3 figure goals we were just short of (Trun, Tribal Spirits, Tederran Mutants) and maybe the Belly of the Beast (not quite so close, but hell, if they want to eat up some of that bonus credit, that'd be a way to do it).
Hell, unless they get kinda crazy or these last few are extra expensive, we might have to snag paint sets and a giant pile of dice. Which, honestly, I'm strangely comfortable with.
Also, I heard that the corpse piles were hand made, so I'm not entirely sure they'll want to risk getting an order for, like, a couple thousand of them.
But if they make 'em available, yeah, I wouldn't be opposed to getting in on that action.
I plan on using my Mine Cart Credit on anything that wasn't unlocked in the campaign but will be available now.
The "Belly of the Beast" and "Impossible Hell Train" expansions plus the Trun Hunters, Trederran Mutants and Tribal Ghost Warriors that were almost reached in the campaign.
And who knows what that 'unknown' goal was too...
Plus, didn't they say there'd be more surprises too?
I'm hoping that the surprise is more cool stuff, and not some announcement that all of this additional stuff isn't shipping until after Gencon 2015...
Not to be a conspiracy theorist, but I honestly suspect that Gencon is a big part of why "mid wave shipping" might even be a thing.
It helps alleviate grumbling if they end up having to wait until after Gencon to ship, and with that many models to make and figures/monsters/items/etc to balance, I think doing so in even a year seems optimistic.
Not that I'm expecting them to set a hard timeframe for that many moving parts, but considering that late is kind of the status quo, I'm trying to set up a very reasonable "having wave 2 in hand by christmas 2015 would be nice" level of hope and recognizing that 2016 isn't out of the question.
Which will still probably ship before Robotech wave 2.
I'm wondering what day "the end of the week" is according to Flying Frog. It's almost the middle of Friday here.
Considering how long we've been told the PM is coming, I can't help but take it with a grain of salt, and translate "the end of the week" into "the end of the month."
2 Waves, has been since January, though they are taking their sweet fething time with the first one, but that's a long other story.
As far as I'm aware, FFP is on PST, which means it's not even noon over there yet.
As I speculated elsewhere (comments, maybe), while they often do updates in the wee hours of the morning by EST standards (which is still often like 9-10pm their time), unless they're really worried about traffic brutalizing the site/service they're using, it would make sense to launch earlier rather than later. With these things there's often something that got missed, broken or needs a little attention, questions answered, etc. Firing it up at like 3pm and having a few hours at the office (or even just some IT folks still available to troubleshoot) could save a lot of crankiness, grumbling and even ire during what should be a celebratory lap.
Or maybe they'll just fire it off next thursday because *reasons*, as is their way. :-P
Not that I buy it entirely, but they claimed in the update that they could begin shipping as early as mid next week. I guess just taking whatever orders complete (more about finalizing wave 1.5/2 choices as needed), slapping a sticker with the person's address on it onto a box, and bundling them up for pickup by whomever they're shipping with. Just sayin', it might be sooner than mid october... but I wouldn't bet money on it.
1.5 and 2 look about right. CNY is a good point. It'd be sensible to just work up whatever they can, get production run before hand and have stuff shipping while the factories start shutting down, but with timing being imperfect, I could see it sticking them until sometime after, but preferably a good chunk before Gencon.
That becomes Gencon 2015's release (some or all of it), then they knock out the remainder and ship it asap. I'd be wary to say but while it'd be nice to have this all wrapped up by the end of next year, once Gencon is done, it'd seem like "before CNY 2016 feths us" would be the next sticking point.
Much as I respect just how much stuff there is going on, I'm kinda hoping we're not waiting for more boxes a full year and a half from now, but as we've seen, hoping doesn't prevent squat.
Most updates from the Frogs seem to drift in around 10PM- 2AM Pacific Time. There were some really late ones before, and I can remember chatting in the comments with Jason well past midnight.
Nah, they said in the last update that it would show up 'at the end of this week', which some concluded COULD (note, we're being reasonable here) mean today.
And yes, it's very common for them to post updates at 9-10pm PST or later, but when launching a PM, it's also generally a good idea to have someone on hand to fix little things that fell through the cracks, answer questions, poke at any servers that are in need of a swift kicking (well, call someone at the Fundafull/Backerkit/whomever site), whatever, so I wouldn't be surprised if it was a little earlier rather than later, but it's entirely up to them.
For all we know they did find a showstopping issue and have had to put it off, or maybe they're just waiting for the end of the day to hit the button to put it live and then flee the building like it's on fire.
So... maybe in a few hours, maybe in a few days, maybe in October.
Alpharius wrote: I'm going guess it launches so late Sunday so as to actually be Monday on the East Coast!
Yeah, it'd be about right at this point.
Though as I just pondered aloud in the comments, after all the months of waiting, it'd be nice if they rewarded that long time patience with following not only the letter of what was said, but the spirit as well.
And if a technical issue is holding things up, or whatever, just say so. It'd be nice to just tell us, rather than leaving us waiting for the next 3 days (or however long it takes).
Automatically Appended Next Post: Update is out! It's an epic one! Sorry, it's late, but seriously, it's good news.
Well damnit, according to the new update, you cant upgrade to a MC pledge unless you had backed at Outlaw level (minimum). So much for that..
Anyway, below is the full update. Good news for most, but maybe not for ~260 of us.. I guess I might as well take that money I saved and put it in to MER.. oh, wait, just missed the deadline on that one with regards to prices and shipping costs. Ho hum, might as well throw my money at Chris Roberts and buy a very expensive, very virtual space ship.
Spoiler:
Hello Brimstone Gang!
Well, here we are. On the eve of the Pledge Manager. Is anyone excited? This is the big Update #42...the answer to life, the universe, and everything. Do you know how hard it was to time out the updates to hit #42 right at the launch of the Pledge Manager? (j/k)
What’s New?
It’s finally here, the Shadows of Brimstone Pledge Manager! After long months of working diligently on polishing the Core Sets and getting them through production and manufacturing, we have been breaking a lot of new ground with this project! With everything from making higher detail hard plastic figures to paint sets to fully die cut puzzle connection map tiles and all of the art and sculpting, it has been a crazy ride getting the pipeline and game system for Shadows of Brimstone fully realized. Over this time, a lot of things have changed, both in the game’s design as well as the manufacturing and pricing of things. This has led us to make a few changes to the structure of the Pledge Manager as well as several additional brand new items that are now available as Add-Ons. Here is a list of all of the new features of the Shadows of Brimstone Pledge Manager:
Estimated MSRP Pricing
One of the things that we discovered rather quickly is that the costs for printing highly detailed die cut map tiles as well as hard plastic miniature production has become a bit more expensive than previously expected. This has led to higher costs on our end and will affect many of the estimated/final RETAIL prices for items in the Kickstarter. This DOES NOT however, change the Add-On pricing for KS Backers. It just means that you guys are getting an even better deal than anybody realized! The current estimated Retail price total for the Mine Cart, including all of the Stretch Goals, etc., weighs in at upwards of $1,600 MSRP!
Shipping in Waves
Shadows of Brimstone will be shipping out to backers in 2 Waves. Wave 1 will include primarily the 2 Core Sets and the Outlaw Rules, Cards, and Character sheet (unfortunately, the miniature isn’t ready yet, so that will come later). There may be a few other items that can ship out with Wave 1, but that will most likely just be the Pads of Hero Character Sheets and Paint Sets for any Backers that add them in the Pledge Manager. All of the other Items (Stretch Goals, Add-Ons, Custom Dice, etc) will be included in Wave 2. Currently we are estimating that Wave 2 will start shipping out some time next Summer (2015), most likely around August timeframe.
Extra Shipping Wave 1.5
One of the Add-On items that has been included in the Pledge Manager is an Extra Wave of Shipping. This is an optional cost that covers shipping (still subsidized by us – shipping charges have gone through the roof recently) for an extra Wave 1.5 to be sent to those Backers that select it, that will include everything that is ready up to that point. We do not have a firm date on when this optional Wave 1.5 will ship out, but the plan is to have it at a mid-way point between Wave 1 and Wave 2, most likely starting to ship out sometime around March/April 2015. This Wave 1.5 is an optional extra cost and we don’t expect most Backers to elect to use it (just based on the high costs of shipping), but we wanted to make it available to any who want a huge influx of new material several months before absolutely everything is complete for Wave 2 to ship out.
Mine Cart Rounds 5, 6, 7, and 8 Bonus Credit
Backers that pledged for Mine Cart Rounds 5 ($425), 6 ($450), 7 ($475), and 8 ($480) during the Kickstarter Campaign were offered a Bonus Credit for use in the Pledge Manager. This is still the case and will be included in your Pledge Level when you log into the Pledge Manager. As a reminder, this Bonus Credit may not be used on Extra Pledge Levels or Shipping. Trying to do so may result in a significant delay to your order being processed and shipped.
No Late Backing
Based on several factors, including the increasing costs of production and the amount of Backers we already have from the KS Campaign itself, we have made the decision to not allow Late Backers to join the KS after the Campaign has finished. There was a lot of discussion on this point, but we finally reached the conclusion that allowing Late Backers was not something that we could really do.
Extra Passages and Standard Room Tiles SG Swapped for New Frontier Bandit Enemies
One of the original Stretch Goals in the Kickstarter was an extra set of the Passages and Standard Room Map Tiles for both City of the Ancients and Swamps of Death. This only included the generic passages (corners, T-Junctions, Straight paths, etc) as well as the generic room tiles (the couple of tiles that you get 2 of each in the box, that don’t have any real distinguishing features to make them unique). The initial thought on adding these was that it could be good for players that wanted to make larger pre-set maps that had more passages between rooms or more generic rooms to fill it out with. As the design of the game progressed, it became less and less interesting to include these. At the same time, something that was not included in the KS at all was a normal gang of Human Bandits to use as Enemies, both while in Town as well as down in the Mines. As we have been working on the Expanded Frontier Town and other Enemies for the game, this became something we thought would be really cool to add.
For this reason, we have made the decision to swap out the Stretch Goal from the rather pointless extra generic rooms and passage tiles to a brand new grouping of Frontier Bandit Enemies that include 6 Figures as well as the corresponding cards and rules for using them in the game! As an Outlaw level Backer or higher, you don’t need to do anything in the Pledge Manager for this upgrade, it has happened automatically!
On the outside chance that any Backer would rather have the original Stretch Goal, as listed in the KS, instead of the new Frontier Bandit Enemies, you can send us an email to admin@flyingfrog.net with the Subject Line “OPT OUT OF FRONTIER BANDIT ENEMY UPGRADE” to let us know. We will honor the original Stretch Goal for the extra set of Passages and Standard Map Tiles as it was initially presented. Note, though, that there is no other way to get the new Frontier Bandit Enemies in the Pledge Manager.
Void Sorcerers
Another element of the game that has evolved during development is the Void Sorcerer Enemy. Originally this was going to be a Mini-Boss type Enemy, but as the rules for him progressed, it has become an Enemy type that requires 1-3 figures. They are now a Heavy style Enemy that can show up in groups. Because of this, the Stretch Goal for the Void Sorcerer has been upgraded to include 3 Void Sorcerer figures instead of only 1. This is a free upgrade.
Outlaw Upgrade to Mine Cart (MC Round 9)
Many Backers have been asking about the possibility to upgrade their Pledge Level from Outlaw to Mine Cart. We are happy to announce that this will now be possible in the Pledge Manager. Any Backer that is currently at the Outlaw (Early), Outlaw, Map Maker (Outlaw), or Deluxe Outlaw Pledge Level may select the option to Upgrade to Mine Cart Round 9 for an additional fee (as listed in the Pledge Manager entry for Upgrading). Note that this option to Upgrade is only offered to Backers that are currently at the Outlaw Level or higher. Backers that Pledged at a lower level than Outlaw will not have access to this Upgrade.
Additional Pledge Levels for Outlaw and Mine Cart (Limit 1 each)
As discussed in previous Updates and Comments, we will be allowing any Backer that Pledged at Outlaw level or higher to add up to 1 additional Outlaw Pledge level to be shipped to the same address as their normal Pledge Rewards. We will also be allowing any Backer that Pledged at the Mine Cart level or higher to add up to 1 additional Mine Cart (MC Round 9) to be shipped to the same address as their normal Pledge Rewards.
These additional Pledge Levels are being limited to 1 Outlaw and 1 Mine Cart for several reasons, not the least of which is the ever growing Production Costs for manufacturing and the logistics of packing and shipping everything. For Backers that already added extra funding to their Pledge during the campaign with the intent to get more than one extra Outlaw or Mine Cart Pledge Level added to their rewards, please send an email to admin@flyingfrog.net and we can discuss the options for a resolution/refund of this extra funding.
Extra Copies of the Outlaw Hero Class
Extra Copies of the Kickstarter Exclusive Outlaw Hero Class are available as part of the Pledge Manager for an additional cost. This includes the Hero Record Sheet, Cards, and Rules for the Outlaw Hero Class as well as both the Male and Female Outlaw figures. As the Outlaw Figures are not ready yet for Wave 1 Shipping, they will be included in Wave 2. All of the Outlaw Record Sheets, Cards, and Rules will be included in Wave 1 (where available).
Trun Hunters, Trederran Mutants, and Tribal Ghost Warriors
We are excited to announce that, though the Stretch Goals for them were not quite reached during the KS Campaign, we have added the Trun Hunters, Trederran Mutants, and Tribal Ghost Warrior Enemies as optional Add-Ons which may be purchased in the Pledge Manager!
Corpse Piles and Derelict Ship Auto-Turrets
We have also included Optional Add-Ons of brand new Terrain Hazard Figures for Corpse Piles (previously counters in the Swamps of Death Core Set) as well as Auto-Turret Defenses for the Derelict Ship OtherWorld (these will also be counters in the Derelict Ship OtherWorld set).
Artifact Card Supplements for each OtherWorld
Another addition to the Pledge Manager as an Optional Add-On is an Artifact Card Supplement for each of the OtherWorlds. Each of these Card Supplements more than doubles the number of OtherWorld Artifacts for the world it is associated with!
Custom Dice Mega Set
We have also created a Custom Dice Mega Set that includes one of each Set of the different Custom Dice (96 dice total) for a discounted amount.
Blank Card Sets
As we continued to work on refining the design of the game as well as getting everything into production, some of the card decks changed and a few new card decks were even added to the game that did not exist during the time of the KS Campaign (such as Epic Threats and OtherWorld Threats). Because of this, as well as lots of feedback from Backers, we have made a few changes to the way the Optional Add-On Blank Card Sets are organized in the final Pledge Manager. You will now find that they are organized into themed groupings that make sense for what you would want in the game, while still keeping a reasonable price point. They are also no longer grouped with multiple OtherWorld specific blank cards combined into the same set.
Now you will find that the Blank Cards are available as a Threat Set (Low, Med, High, and Epic Threats), a Mine Set (Mine Encounters, Mine Artifacts, Gear, and Darkness), and a set for each OtherWorld (world Encounters, world Artifacts, and OtherWorld Threats).
Blank Hero Character Sheet Pads and Enemy Record Sheet Pads
Toward the end of the KS Campaign, we announced that we would be including an Optional Add-On for pads of extra Blank Hero Record Sheets. The Pledge Manager now includes this option as well as pads of blank Enemy Record Sheets for making your own new Enemies. These Pads are $10 each and include a set of 40 Full Color prints of the blank Hero Character Sheet or the blank Enemy Record Sheet.
Sets of Extra Bases – 30mm, 40mm, and 60mm
Sets of extra bases are also available as part of the Pledge Manager in regular 30mm, Large 40mm, and XL 60mm. These work great for mounting figures on to match the rest of your Shadows of Brimstone set if you want to add your own new Enemies or Heroes to the game!
New Promo Cards
We created exclusive Promo Cards that gamers outside of the Kickstarter will get when they buy the Core Sets directly from Flying Frog Productions. Of course, as you guys are our biggest supporters, we have included these with your Pledge as a free bonus: All KS backers who pledged at Prospector Level will get TWO Promo Cards (the two associated with their chosen Core Set) and all KS Backers who pledged at Outlaw or higher will get all FOUR of the Bonus Promo Cards! Everyone who picked up their games at one of our Pick-Ups already received these Promo Cards.
FAQ
What Comes in Wave 1?
The following items will be included in Wave 1 if you got them as part of your pledge level or purchased them in the Pledge Manager:
Shadows of Brimstone: City of the Ancients Core Set
Shadows of Brimstone: Swamps of Death Core Set
Miniature Set of Heroes and Enemies from both Core Sets in Variant RED color
Signed Art Print
Kickstarter-Exclusive Outlaw Hero Class (Rules, Upgrade Chart, Character Sheet, Game Cards, but No Miniature yet)
Bonus Promo Cards
Heroes of the Old West Premium Paint Set
Creatures of the Void Premium Paint Set
Pads of Color Blank Character Record Sheets
Pads of Color Blank Enemy Record Sheets
Shadows of Brimstone Vinyl Sticker Set
What Comes in the Optional Wave 1.5?
This is an early estimate of what we will have ready to ship in Wave 1.5, but is subject to change:
2 Otherworlds (TBD)
2-3 Mission Packs (TBD)
Outlaw Miniatures
3-5 New Hero Classes with Miniatures (TBD)
Blank Cards
6-12 Game Card Supplements (TBD)
4-12 New Enemy Groups (TBD, including some XL and XXL enemies)
What comes in Wave 2?
All remaining items. Wave 2 will only ship once everything from the Pledge Manager is ready.
Shadows of Brimstone Vinyl Sticker Sheet
Shadows of Brimstone Vinyl Sticker Sheet
General Information about Pledge Manager
1. You should receive an email from the fantastic folks at PledgeManager.com very soon! When you receive your email, you will need to click on the link and just follow the simple instructions to get started.
2. Once you are in your order, you just need to confirm the shipping address where you’d like to receive your rewards and confirm your order. If you would like to add additional goodies into your order, you can do that, too. If the process isn't clear once you're in, take a look at this overview to see how easy it is to confirm your order: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBOkInmQS5o
3. Once you have checked out and your order has been confirmed, we will begin processing and fulfilling your Pledge Rewards. Wave 1 (as described above) will be shipping around the world over the next few months.
What is PledgeManager?
PledgeManager is a specialized fulfillment tool that will help us get your rewards to you as efficiently as possible. PledgeManager is intended to improve your experience for the period after Kickstarter but before reward delivery. It offers you the ability to review centralized information on your PledgeManager projects through a single sign-on. You can change your shipping address up to the moment of reward shipment, and even track the progress and delivery of projects you’ve backed that are loaded in PledgeManager.
Why PledgeManager?
Can’t you just get my information through Kickstarter? It’s true. Kickstarter does offer a survey tool that we could use after our project ends. However, it’s fairly limited in functionality and we feel it ultimately doesn’t meet your or our needs. With PledgeManager, not only can you update your shipping address and track the project delivery, but you can also select the detailed reward options for your reward level, and add more rewards that you may have missed. For us, using PledgeManager means accurate and detailed orders for our manufacturers, cleaner shipping and handling charges (especially for international backers), and knowing that the address we’re shipping your rewards to is the right one. Not to mention it gives you, our awesome backers, complete control and visibility into your order and shipping information at any time!
Wrap Up
That's all for now. We plan to begin sending out the invitation to the Pledge Manager shortly, but we will be sending the invites in groups so we can be sure everything is working properly. Not everyone will get their invitation at once. Please be patient. Your Pledge Manager awaits...
Cheers,
Scott & Jason
Edit: Unless there is an existing SoB Minecart backer on Dakka here in the UK who doesn't mind me piggybacking for an extra Minecart pledge?
Well, they've been going out for at least 4 hours or longer, judging by the Highlord's post here, and still nothing in my inbox.
Damn. I'd hoped I'd wake up to find it waiting. Just how slowly are they rolling these things out? Hopefully at least a couple hundred an hour or we're going to be here all weekend just to get access. :-/
Wave 1.5 shipping was 40 bucks. At least for the US. It might have been more for ROW. I recall seeing a shipping figure for a 100. Could be that. Not 100%.
No idea how to find out backer number.
I know I was a really early backer, because the original mine carts were still available when I pledged.
You can see your backer number if you access the project through a mobile app and click view pledge at the bottom of the screen. Only works once a project has ended.
Yeeg - 520 for Mine Cart comfortably puts it into no-go territory for me! Much like when I passed up the 600-dollar "every plastic model" late offer for Kingdom Death, it might be an amazing deal, but only if you want that much stuff to begin with.
I'd just be happy if we get a decent base game out of this - would be a bit of a first for Flying Frog.
Despite a desire to do so, I've decided to forgo the 1.5 Wave shipping option and have resigned myself to getting all the extras about 1 year, or more, from today!
Mine Cart 9 with Wave 1.5 Shipping
Map Maker
Extra set of Doors
Extra set of Scenery
Corpse Pile Set
Turret Set
Trun
Terredan Mutants
Tribal Spirits
and all 6 sets of Artifact cards.
He had some credit in already, but we had to bump it up a bit to cover the 1.5 shipping and some of the extras.
Mine became:
Outlaw
Map Maker
5 sets of Dice (Enemy, Gunslinger, Saloon Girl, Bandido, Lawman; enemy set and 1 each for the 4 of us)
Another Corpse Pile pack
Another Turret Set
and 2 Darkstone bags.
Packed most of the stuff we wanted 'ASAP' into his account, and mine is mostly 'bling' to make things look awesome.
That's a whole lotta stuff. I've gotta decide what imma get. I may get all the extras for the areas we already have, and then maybe one more new location.
Thanks, Cincy. And what's the deal with the custom dice sets (and mega-set)? How many (if any) of those are already in Minecart, and I can't see the cost of it..
I'd just be happy if we get a decent base game out of this - would be a bit of a first for Flying Frog.
The Hell You Say!
At the very least Fortune and Glory was awesome right out of the box, and I enjoyed Last Night on Earth and A Touch of Evil quite a bit too.
A Touch of Evil is probably the best Talisman I've played.
I admit that I've only played a Touch of Evil and Fortune and Glory once (and own neither), but the play sessions did not go down well! It's true that Talisman isn't very popular in my circle for similar reasons - the phrase "roll to move" is almost a dirty word! So even though I really like the look of this, and really like dungeon crawlers, it will be difficult to actually get this thing played, which is why I don't really want to over-extend myself.
Were the contents of the otherworld expansions ever explained? They seem to be a little light on content in themselves - 3 map tiles and 3-6 enemies for $35, with the encounter cards having be bought externally, as well as the bosses/non-basic minions. Do they actually contain additional missions/scenarios, or are they more like just fancier enemy packs?
Bioptic wrote: Were the contents of the otherworld expansions ever explained? They seem to be a little light on content in themselves - 3 map tiles and 3-6 enemies for $35, with the encounter cards having be bought externally, as well as the bosses/non-basic minions. Do they actually contain additional missions/scenarios, or are they more like just fancier enemy packs?
You are basing your opinion on the Otherworld Expansion on the image which is just a sample of the contents. The actual expansions will have around 12 map tiles (I believe that is excluding corridor pieces), an specific exploration deck for the Otherworld, an encounter deck specific to the otherworld and (I am not 100% on this one) a small artifact / treasure deck specific to the world.
The encounter cards they are selling are additional encounter cards to double the amount of possible encounters for each world, same with the additional artifact decks they are now offering in the pledge manager.
Bioptic wrote: the phrase "roll to move" is almost a dirty word!
Funny story, apparently you're not the only group with this issue/concern, and in the rule book they released for SoB, it notes that there's an optional rule to just have people take a flat 4 squares on their turn (but you still roll a d6 at the start, and get a grit on a 1, if I'm remembering it correctly).
Darn. Even after the news that only Outlaw (and above) could upgrade to Minecart, I thought that lower pledge levels would still at least upgrade to Outlaw. I didn't realise that would only apply to the $50 and above pledge levels, with no option for us Cowpokes to upgrade at all.
Oh well, at least I can buy someone's pledge on eBay..
The longer it took for the pledge manager to come out, the more I realized they weren't going to allow much in the way of upgrades. Cowpoke here as well. KS has cured me of the completionist streak and the minis look ok, but not good enough for me to kick myself about missing outlaw. I'll pick up one or both of the games at some point from amazon or miniature market and call it a day. I tend to ebay off the extras I get these days anyway as I realize I won't get around to paint them or even play with them anytime soon.
If anyone is willing to let me piggy back on their pledge manager I would appreciate it. Looking for an Outlaw pledge and any KS Exclusive figures. I will help pay for some of your pledge for allowing me to piggy back I also can return the favor on Kingom Death.
They said in a previous update that they hoped to start shipping in the middle of last week. As we approach the middle of this week, obviously that didn't happen (unless they just didn't bother saying anything and aren't sending shipping confirmation/tracking information, but that seems like a stretch), but I remain hopeful it'll start up soon.
Well shipping has started supposedly, at least according to the latest update.
I want to know if we'll be getting tracking or not. Or where we stand in line to be getting our stuff shipped.
I did not know they would unlock the PM. Crap. I would have added more. Then again, maybe it's best if I didn't go that route.
I locked mine that very same night, so we'll see if I hear anything soon. Maybe I'll find something on the doorstep in the next week or so?
All I can say at this point is that Myth better hope it arrives before this does (in 2 days, according to UPS) because I doubt it will get touched once Brimstone arrives.
Especially since a lot of the extras won't be shipping until about this time time NEXT YEAR.
Update #43
Sep 23 2014
Wave 1 Has Started Shipping! Seattle Pick Up Event Report! Pledge Manager Info! Essen News!
33 comments
54 likes
Hello Brimstone Folks!
Just wanted to give you a quick update on recent events and address some questions about the Pledge Manager. So, let's get to it...
Seattle Pick-Up
The Shadows of Brimstone Seattle Backer Pick-up Event was a lot of fun! We secured a moody locale in the heart of Seattle's Underground in Pioneer Square. Some attendees even took a tour of the dusty subterranean areas! Our team was very excited to meet and personally thank all of the backers, some of whom traveled from as far as Oregon state and Vancouver BC in Canada!
Ear-to-ear grins were plentiful as giddy Brimstone Backers picked up their games, played in demos, put together their figures at the hobby tables, and sipped sudsy Root Beer bottles! It was an incredible evening shared with new friends and it will be long remembered.
Wave 1 has Started Shipping!
We are happy to announce that Shadows of Brimstone Wave 1 has started shipping! This includes the Core Sets, Sets of Red Miniatures for Deluxe Outlaw and Mine Cart Backers, Signed Art Prints, Paint Sets, Pads of Blank Character and Enemy Record Sheets, Vinyl Sticker Sets, and the Outlaw Rules and Cards (the miniatures for the Outlaw were delayed and won’t be ready until Wave 2). This is a long and complicated process. Though we will be steadily sending out more and more Wave 1 packages every day, it will likely take a couple of months to get all of the nearly 5,000 KS Backers their Wave 1 shipments sent out. Keep in mind that it will take a few more containers of games sent by ocean freight just to get all of the Core Sets needed to fulfill Wave 1 here at the Frog HQ!
We are also still on track to have the EU Wave 1 packages start going out mid-October, once the container of games arrives in Europe and gets unloaded, sorted, and packaged to send out to Backers.
Pledge Manager - More Info
Many Backers have been asking when the Pledge Manager will close and we can now announce that we will keep the Shadows of Brimstone Pledge Manager open until 11:59 PM PST on Sunday, October 5th. At that point, the Pledge Manager will be closed and locked, and any further last minute address changes will need to be handled through direct email.
Right now, the Pledge Manager is set up to lock in your Pledge Rewards and Info once you check out and finalize your order. Many (many) Backers have been contacting us to go back in and change their orders after they have been finalized and locked. This has created a bit of a delay in the shipping, as your Wave 1 package cannot be sent out until we are sure that your order is final and ready to go.
Essen
It looks like we are, indeed, going to Germany for our first trip to the Essen Games Fair! We are also planning an Essen Pick-Up where backers can meet the developers and get their games in person at the show! We are still working out the details. So, we will provide more information in another update.
Well, that's about it for now. We're working our butts off on shipping while still continuing development on all of the expansion materials. This is a very exciting time for Shadows of Brimstone!
Alpharius wrote: Spending less (ha!) here was OK with me! Especially since a lot of the extras won't be shipping until about this time time NEXT YEAR.
I try to minimize my add-on spending as well.
fwiw, Creators are still shipping domestic orders first, but, at least a few years ago, they were also shipping simplest orders first. Frex, Reaper's backers who ordered only the Vampire core set were shipped their boxes first, and, thanks to having to wait for a container, anyone who bought more had to wait weeks for the rest of their order. The OUYA comments are hilarious with backers who paid more for the limited edition OUYA so had to wait longer for their sets. Simple orders get out of the door faster, clearing up warehouse space faster, and "debugging" any logistics problems before they're encountered by more complex orders. Stonemaier Games, in fact, did not allow separate purchases of its resource tokens, citing logistics costs. Reaper said they were not using a fulfillment house because picked orders would cost too much money (I've seen these places charge $1 for each additional item added to an order -- adds up quickly).
An individual on Boardgamegeek has claimed to have received a shipping notification for his boxes.
"This message was sent to you at the request of FLYING FROG PRODUCTIONS, LLC to notify you that the electronic shipment information below has been transmitted to UPS. The physical package(s) may or may not have actually been tendered to UPS for shipment. To verify the actual transit status of your shipment, click on the tracking link below or contact FLYING FROG PRODUCTIONS, LLC directly.
Important Delivery Information
Scheduled Delivery: 29-September-2014
Shipment Detail"
So apparently we will be getting shipping notification. Doesn't seem to include tracking info (or at least it wasn't copied, not that we need to track this one guy's package), which is a shame, but at least we'll know when to start obsessively checking the mail for notifications.
Jeremy's comment: "@C, these bases line up perfectly with SoB, the characters and small creatures are 30mm, mid-size creatures are 40mm, and the two XL figures from the core box are 60mm bases."
Depending on the types of bases unlocked I think they will go a long way to improving the look of the SoB figures. You could use different styles to theme the monster types.
Jeremy
If these are MAS bases, may I post these in the BGG SoB forum to plug the CMON/MAS bases KS?
I am sorry to report that the bases are not MAS... :( They're a combination of "Plast Craft: Pre-Cut Sceneries - Irregular Stone Paving," old 40K scenery, modelling pumice, and broken cork pieces.
The Tentacles and Hellbats are molded onto the small rock piles.
My Q:
"Could you let me know if non-EU International packages are being sent out at the same time as the US orders, or are they being left to be done separately?"
FFP A:
"Hi Rory,
Yes, that should be the case. We haven't shipped any yet because we are waiting to hear back from someone about better international rates."
So, we can stop wearing out our F5 keys, they're not coming yet.
And them not being up front about this despite beginning shipping over a week and a half ago is probably the first actual frustration I have with them. They've had nearly a year to get their ducks in a row for shipping, and really should've noted what was going on at some point in the last half dozen updates.
Maybe I skimmed one too quickly, but I don't remember a "US shipments in Sept/Oct, EU at the end of Oct, ROW: ???" line.
Just a quick reminder that the Shadows of Brimstone Pledge Manager closes this weekend at 11:59 PM PST on Sunday, October 5th. It looks like about 500 backers still need to complete their order in the Pledge Manager. Do not delay. Please go and do this immediately.
If you have not completed your order, another reminder email was just sent to you. If anyone has not received an email invitation to the Shadows of Brimstone Pledge Manager, please search your mail for the word "pledgemanager" as it may show up in another folder/tab that you don't see. If you still cannot find the email invitation, it means that the emails are being blocked for some reason. You can contact us right away (email both support@pledgemanager.com and admin@flyingfrog.net) and provide an alternative email address.
We'll have more news about production, shipping, and info on the Essen Pick-Up Details soon. Right now, we just need to get everyone through the Pledge Manager process.
Thanks,
Scott
Hopefully that means the week of October 6th will find us getting a nice substantive update containing lots of info about production and shipping...
"Ok, heres a box next to Lords of Waterdeep, both boxes, and the insides of both. Their inside holding trays are both different. Which seems weird, cuz they are the same dimensions. The Swamp of Death box main tray (next to the cards) is longer but thinner, so the books dont fit just right in there, so they are slightly bent. Maybe the board pieces are longer. Haven't unpacked those yet. Both came with 1 d6 and 1 d8. The box was packed with a baggie of d6s for each set."
"Ok here are some tile pics. They are thinner than Descent tiles, but seem pretty sturdy. Seem sturdier than Sedition Wars but about the same thickness. Sturdier because they are smaller pieces of tile."
Yeah, 3rd/4th Ed Space Hulk was weird like that. Still, the connectors on these tiles do look very similar to the Hulk tiles. It'd be nice if they joined.
Thanks for your patience as we go through the process of getting Wave One shipped out to Backers. It has been a bit overwhelming handling this volume and we've had to ramp up with temporary help in the warehouse. Even so, it is a massive undertaking!
ROW Shipping
That stands for "Rest of the World" shipping. Basically, all of the places outside of the USA and Europe. We've heard a lot of concern about ROW Shipping - when will it start, why is there no plan?!? There is a plan, but first let's talk about the issues that we are facing. Shipping is expensive, especially, for heavy, heavy game boxes like the core sets. Each one is like a brick - filled to the brim with goodies. This is how Flying Frog makes games! We don't want a half empty box when you open it. We fill it with as much stuff as we can!
Anyway, let's look at a quick example: John Smith is an amazing and supportive backer from Australia and he's backed the project at the $150 Outlaw Level. Because he was an international backer, he also had to pay an extra $25 for shipping. So, He's getting both core games in Wave 1 and all those stretch goals in Wave 2. Our actual shipping cost to Australia for each of these Waves is estimated at over $150, so over $300 shipping to get John Smith his games that he payed $175 for. So, we are already negative $125 for John before we even add the cost of the games and stretch goals! We have well over 200 backers in Australia. So, as you can see, that is not really feasible.
Instead, we are working on a plan to freight the packages to Australia and then have them individually sent out once they're 'down under'. There will be individual solutions for different areas with large groups of backers. ROW countries with just a few backers will just be sent directly at a major loss. So, you can see that it is not simple and we are making the best decisions we can to get backers their games ASAP, without endangering the company.
Essen Pick-Up
We are very excited to attend Essen Game Fair for the first time next week! We are planning for an Essen Pick-Up as well. The only scary part of this plan is actually getting the games to Essen in time for the show. Honestly, it has been very touch and go for the last two months as for will we have it or won't we have it in time for Essen. We finally got news that it would arrive in Germany in time, but could not get to the actual convention in time - unless we paid a lot of extra money to expedite delivery within the country. We, of course, want everyone to get their games as soon as possible! So, we paid the charges and, unless there is some disaster, we should have the games at Essen on the second day of the show (Oct 17th). Because of the great cost in getting the games in time for the show, I encourage every backer attending Essen to please pick up your games at the show! Here are the details:
We will not have our own booth, but instead, we are part of the huge Heidelberger Spieleverlag Booth. They are our distribution partner in Germany and we will be at Hall 1 B-103 for all four days of the show. You can pick up your Wave 1 goodies from us there Oct 17-19. We will also be meeting fans, signing any Flying Frog games, discussing Shadows of Brimstone, and even doing some demos! It should be a lot of fun!
We are not doing an RSVP for the Essen Pick Up. To pick up your games, simply come to the booth with your photo ID.
If you are wanting a friend to pick up your games for you, they must have your full name, address, and email address as they appear on your Pledge Manager Order. They would also need to provide a photo ID of themselves that we will take note of and assign to your account as the person who did the pick-up.
So, that's it. Simple and painless. So, if you are a Backer coming to Essen, be sure to come to the Heidelberger Spieleverlag Booth and see us to get your games!
Shipping Continues
Don't worry, while a team of us are in Europe handling shipping in the EU, a second team is remaining at Frog HQ, continuing the progress! There are still many stragglers who have been emailed several reminders, but never completed the Pledge Manager. If you have not completed the Pledge Manager for Shadows of Brimstone, please contact Pledge Manager Support (support@pledgemanager.com) as soon as possible so that we can send out your games.
That's it for now. The next update, I hope to show lots of new game progress and pictures from the Essen Game Fair. For now, we just have our noses to the grindstone, getting people their games as soon as possible!
Yippy-Ki-Yay!
-Scott
"Why is there no plan? Why didn't you think of this stuff before or start working it out earlier?"
I particularly like how they mention paying a lot of extra money to get product to Essen slightly earlier than it would normally be shipped within the EU (which seems pointless to me, as backers have already paid to have it shipped to their homes), and then cite high shipping costs as the reason why ROW orders can't be sent at all yet!
Well, the 'reading between the lines' there is that the extra cost of getting the boxes there for pickup is probably significantly less than the cost of mailing them out individually, so the more people they have getting them at Essen, the less they'll have to mail out individually.
Not to judge FFP too harshly, but I'm starting to feel that all these pick ups aren't just about meeting and greeting fans, giving some a chance to snag their boxes early while at events, and more a mission to hand out as much as they can and let said backers deal with getting them home.
Especially with Essen, where they flat out say there shouldn't be a limit. I think in their ideal world *ALL* of the EU backers managed to get there.
Plus, it now occurs to me what a kick in the pants it'd be to pay for shipping, and then pay transportation AND for entry into the convention just to get to lug the boxes home ourselves. It's basically 'pay extra to get your shipment' without actually requesting to take money directly.
Ugh. I like to think I've been pretty upbeat and positive about this whole project for the last year, but this is starting to grate a little. Shipping to Canada might not be cheap for boxes of that size, but it shouldn't be crippling either.
And if it is, that probably hasn't changed much in the last year, so why is this still being figured out?
Azazelx wrote: Maybe they're waiting for the next USPS price rise in some way?
As one backer pointed out on the KS, they can afford to ship, as standard practice, the two boxes for $199.95, with free shipping anywhere in the world, which brings into question their "Our actual shipping cost to Australia for each of these Waves is estimated at over $150" statement from Update 45. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying shipping is cheap. But I can't see them pricing that and thinking less than $25 a box allows for any kind of profit margin.
Azazelx wrote: Maybe they're waiting for the next USPS price rise in some way?
As one backer pointed out on the KS, they can afford to ship, as standard practice, the two boxes for $199.95, with free shipping anywhere in the world, which brings into question their "Our actual shipping cost to Australia for each of these Waves is estimated at over $150" statement from Update 45. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying shipping is cheap. But I can't see them pricing that and thinking less than $25 a box allows for any kind of profit margin.
Elaborate, please.
I've priced out shipping my boxes to California, and based on size and weight, I'm looking at a minimum of around $55.
Shipping these beasts isn't going to be "cheap" even with a bulk discount.
I've priced out shipping my boxes to California, and based on size and weight, I'm looking at a minimum of around $55.
Shipping these beasts isn't going to be "cheap" even with a bulk discount.
The point is that they can allegedly do it just fine normally with their webstore and yet somehow can't do it now.
If they can ship *anything* totaling $200+ *anywhere* without additional cost, then surely $175 (outlaw plus shipping fee) isn't an order of magnitude off. At least for the first wave.
The move to 2 waves of shipping may well be cost prohibitive, but I imagine that's at least part of where this drive to have people pick up copies at conventions is coming from, especially the international folks. Every picked up pair could well be another $25-50+ in their pockets for offsetting shipping costs or other expenses, and between the 3 they've had or are having, I imagine that'll be 'hundreds' of pairs handed out once Essen is done.
I've priced out shipping my boxes to California, and based on size and weight, I'm looking at a minimum of around $55.
Shipping these beasts isn't going to be "cheap" even with a bulk discount.
The point is that they can allegedly do it just fine normally with their webstore and yet somehow can't do it now.
If they can ship *anything* totaling $200+ *anywhere* without additional cost, then surely $175 (outlaw plus shipping fee) isn't an order of magnitude off. At least for the first wave.
The move to 2 waves of shipping may well be cost prohibitive, but I imagine that's at least part of where this drive to have people pick up copies at conventions is coming from, especially the international folks. Every picked up pair could well be another $25-50+ in their pockets for offsetting shipping costs or other expenses, and between the 3 they've had or are having, I imagine that'll be 'hundreds' of pairs handed out once Essen is done.
I'm not convinced.
This is the first time they've done any tooling for mutli part plastic miniatures.
I'm guessing it cost a lot more than they were expecting.
And a $25-50 margin per package may not even cover the cost of keeping their warehouse open.
There are lots of factors that figure into this. I think there's a lot of oversimplification going on.
This is the first time they've done any tooling for mutli part plastic miniatures.
I'm guessing it cost a lot more than they were expecting.
And a $25-50 margin per package may not even cover the cost of keeping their warehouse open.
There are lots of factors that figure into this. I think there's a lot of oversimplification going on.
*facepalm*
Here is what it says on their webstore:
NOW receive FREE shipping for all orders over $195 domestic OR International!!
And here is where you can get both games for just under $200.
From their webstore.
Which qualifies for 'free shipping'.
Meaning they can do BOTH BOXES for FREE SHIPPING ANYWHERE for $200.
And yet we're supposed to believe that doing it for $175 (which was given a year ago, so add potential interest) is an insurmountable task that is holding up all of the international orders.
Does not compute. Either they can do it for roughly that much, or they can't, but their own webstore is undercutting their shipping concerns. That extra $25 isn't an irrelevant sum, and the two waves of shipping is a big consideration as well, but that was on them to sort out with the business model, not to just blindly take our cash, sit on it for a year, and then say "oh noes, shipping is expensive, whatever will we dooooo?"
Edit 2: Hell, Cool Stuff Inc will do both boxes to Canada for under $180.
I empathize with the concerns they rightly have with Wave 2.
But Wave One should be covered just fine.
Hell, I just entered Australia into there. CSI will do both boxes to there for under $200. Quick, someone tell CSI they're about to lose their shirts shipping these boxes! Warn them!
Forar wrote: Does not compute. Either they can do it for roughly that much, or they can't, but their own webstore is undercutting their shipping concerns. That extra $25 isn't an irrelevant sum, and the two waves of shipping is a big consideration as well, but that was on them to sort out with the business model, not to just blindly take our cash, sit on it for a year, and then say "oh noes, shipping is expensive, whatever will we dooooo?"
It's possible that another party is responsible for the web store. I know this is the case for another KS that I'm in. The KS creator ships the KS pledges -- and isn't including tracking -- while the webstore does.
The $175 KS level contains more than the two boxes, so they have more logistics to deal with, more stuff to ship, and a smaller amount of money for it. IMO, $25 is a fair amount of money.
Is anyone who's gone through an overseas KS still backing them? After reading the experiences of international backers, I'm pretty much no longer backing foreign KS, except for RAFM.
@cincy and others: If you're looking to sell your SoB pledge, post on BGG. I'm interested in trading for a pledge, myself.
Forar wrote: Does not compute. Either they can do it for roughly that much, or they can't, but their own webstore is undercutting their shipping concerns. That extra $25 isn't an irrelevant sum, and the two waves of shipping is a big consideration as well, but that was on them to sort out with the business model, not to just blindly take our cash, sit on it for a year, and then say "oh noes, shipping is expensive, whatever will we dooooo?"
It's possible that another party is responsible for the web store. I know this is the case for another KS that I'm in. The KS creator ships the KS pledges -- and isn't including tracking -- while the webstore does.
The $175 KS level contains more than the two boxes, so they have more logistics to deal with, more stuff to ship, and a smaller amount of money for it. IMO, $25 is a fair amount of money.
Is anyone who's gone through an overseas KS still backing them? After reading the experiences of international backers, I'm pretty much no longer backing foreign KS, except for RAFM.
@cincy and others: If you're looking to sell your SoB pledge, post on BGG. I'm interested in trading for a pledge, myself.
People will continue to back foreign Kickstarters as long as 1) there are exclusives they care about, and 2) there are still substantial discounts over eventual purchase price. They just won't have a very good time in the process.
As expensive and irritating as KS shipping can get, at least in the UK things will always work out quite a bit more expensive at retail, if they are even available. Remember that all US boardgames in the UK are imported anyway, are paying an additional 20% in tax, do not have their prices converted at a competitive rate (certainly worse than even Paypal's!) and either need $10+ worth of shipping from discounted online local retail, or are sold full price at physical retail. And we get lower stock allocations than the US, so things sell out here more quickly too - particularly little expansions of the type that Brimstone is packed with!
ced1106 wrote: @cincy and others: If you're looking to sell your SoB pledge, post on BGG. I'm interested in trading for a pledge, myself.
I'll definitely post here and in other place. Does BGG have an actual 'for sale' section? I thought it was mostly just a trade system.
That said, for stuff this big and heavy, I'll probably be aiming to stick local for the time being. Cash in hand and no need to worry about things getting lost or wrecked in the mail is worth taking in a little less to me (not to mention no shipping costs, Ebay fees or Paypal fees).
* Easiest way is to browse the game's forum and look for any threads of gamers who missed out on the KS and want to buy a copy. Frex, Someone's posted a request to buy an Outlaw pledge.
* Create a want / trade list then search for BGG'ers who are "Willing to Buy". I haven't used this feature in a long time, but ask around BGG. Or try: My Geek > Trades > Direct Matches.
Minis are better than average, but not GW or PP quality by any means. Fit can sometimes be iffy, but detail seems ok to me.
Tile thickness seems nice. Cards are good quality. Character boards and reference sheets are on the thinner side.
D6 are lower end, but I imagine most of us have plenty of others to use instead if you want. D8 and Peril die are good quality, with Peril being done by Q-Workshop.
Books are nice quality, glossy, "magazine-style" pages. Content of the books is BRILLIANT. Great rules, extensive campaign system, beautiful pictures and even a short comic in each one!
If anyone has any burning questions, feel free to ask.
Minis are better than average, but not GW or PP quality by any means. Fit can sometimes be iffy, but detail seems ok to me.
Tile thickness seems nice. Cards are good quality. Character boards and reference sheets are on the thinner side.
D6 are lower end, but I imagine most of us have plenty of others to use instead if you want. D8 and Peril die are good quality, with Peril being done by Q-Workshop.
Books are nice quality, glossy, "magazine-style" pages. Content of the books is BRILLIANT. Great rules, extensive campaign system, beautiful pictures and even a short comic in each one!
If anyone has any burning questions, feel free to ask.
This is great to hear. Reading between the lines a bit, it seems some around here have been disappointed with what they've gotten so hearing a (relatively) glowing report is nice. Thanks!
I've been very happy with my games. There is A LOT of stuff jammed in that box. Or both boxes, to be specific. And then there's all those extra red sprues if you got a mine cart.
I also somehow seemed to have misplaced the basic rulebook from one box. Good thing I got another!
One of the coolest aspects I think are the big cards with all their charts detailing the variety of events you can get yourselves in to.
It's going to be interesting to see what happens gameplay wise when we start seeing those objective/ lair rooms showing up from the add ons, as well as all the otherworlds. I'd imagine they'll include their own rulebooks and missions to go along with them. All those tile for the expansions makes me *REALLY* curious as to how those things are going to be packaged.
I'm starting to think wave 2 will grossly eclipse the two core games in terms of size, weight, and volume if you ended up getting a mine cart.
This is great to hear. Reading between the lines a bit, it seems some around here have been disappointed with what they've gotten so hearing a (relatively) glowing report is nice. Thanks!
Haha, that sounds directed at me
No reading between the lines necessary. The minis are incredibly underwhelming to me, and as one of the primary reasons I hopped in on the KS, its hard for me to justify keeping it.
In truth, I still have a significant number of unassembled minis from the two base sets because I didn't even want to assemble them anymore. Its not as disgusted and fed up as I was with Deadzone miniatures, but I was pretty darn disappointed. They're the worst on sprue plastic miniatures I own, and are on par with early 1990s GW plastics in regards to quality.
I also had two off set punch out sheets, which made me more frustrated.
The cards all look great, though, and the manuals are very nice.
highlord tamburlaine wrote:I'm starting to think wave 2 will grossly eclipse the two core games in terms of size, weight, and volume if you ended up getting a mine cart.
I expect to be alerted of the arrival of my Wave 2 stuff by the groaning of my UPS guy as his back starts to fail under the weight...
cincydooley wrote:The minis are incredibly underwhelming to me
I can see why some people won't like them. I'm happy with them. It will come down to personal tolerances and expectations.
High levels of detail in hard plastic, to my understanding, require a high-quality tool cut to a greater deal of precision - the higher quality, the more expensive. In addition, the 'depth' of detail is frequently not factored in when designing the models - you can get some lovely fine detail in CGI renders that will just not make it to the final model at all. Projects like Kingdom Death are still sacrificing some detail from the resin masters, and that's even with a ton of money and time being spent on every single tool!
You can have dynamic posing with boardgame PVC, the models just need to be pre-assembled in the factory - although I'd imagine the more parts you have, the more expensive each model becomes.
I assume that FFG decided that hard plastic on sprues was more desirable than pre-assembled PVC, either for logistics or cost. If they are going super-huge with this release (and releasing ~$1700 retail worth of a single product line would indicate tis), then they may be vindicated by the lower per-unit costs of hard plastic in the end.
I assume that FFG decided that hard plastic on sprues was more desirable than pre-assembled PVC, either for logistics or cost. If they are going super-huge with this release (and releasing ~$1700 retail worth of a single product line would indicate tis), then they may be vindicated by the lower per-unit costs of hard plastic in the end.
I think this is a good point, but it's just a tough sell for me when I've recently received both MYTH and Arcadia quest and will be getting Journey. When I look at the stuff I got with those, I see PVC models that are preassembled and have far greater detail.
And that leaves out the fact that, sadly, on some of the Shadows models, there are unfortunate fit issues with the plastic. The harbinger has a ton of gaps that need filling (which I don't mind doing, honest) that is simply not what I'm used to with HIPS style sprued plastic.
Alex C wrote: As I understand it the assembly requirement is due to dynamic posing, not details.
I'm pretty sure the stated reasoning during the campaign was essentially both.
From the campaign front page;
The Miniatures
In Shadows of Brimstone, players name their heroes and give them personality, making choices along the way to tailor the character to their liking. We wanted to be sure that the miniatures had the characterful detail to match! We also know that many players will want to paint their figures. Increasing the scale of the figures to the new industry standard for high quality, high detail, easily paintable miniatures was an obvious choice. Our new Shadows of Brimstone figures are 35mm to the top of the head to match the scale of amazing figures from Games Workshop, Privateer Press, and others.
It seems they went more in depth on the matter in updates, but frankly I'm not invested enough to go hunting even those couple of pages.
Now, 'quality' is going to be subjective. One person's 'what is this gak' is another person's 'omg it's amazing they should've sent a poet...'
As I don't have the minis in hand yet, I'm waiting to see them up close. As an amateur to the hobby (Malifaux was my first minis game as of ~3 years ago, and most of those figures were in pewter), I'm sure my expectations won't be nearly as high simply due to minimal experience and comparisons to make.
Given how prone some people on the internet are to hyperbole and editorializing to tell a story, I think I'll reserve judgement for now.
On the up side, the people who will be building and painting these figures have been doing so for decades, so even if some extra work is necessary, I have faith they'll produce incredible results all the same.
I'll wait until I have my sets in hand for the Final Judgement, but all this talk of 'soft detail' and 'lots of gaps' on HIPs models here is seriously disappointing.
I was hoping for MUCH better here...and I hope to still be pleasantly here!
So I think I posted these before, but I'll do so again:
Harbinger vs. Beast with 8000 Eyes or whatever it's called from Myth:
Notice the difference in the depth of detail, paying particular attention to the Harbingers horns and the Beasts chest.
And again here:
Soft detail in general from the Shadows model, whereas on the MYTH Orc, you can see that even his belly plate is engraved.
The Shadows Heroes are better, IMO, than the Shadows Monsters: You can see here that the Shadows priest compares quite well with the MYTH hero:
My problems really being to compile when you look at this photo:
I'm an experienced modeler. I've put together embarrassing amounts of miniatures. Notice the rather large gap on the harbinger's shoulders. There was no way to prevent them, on either side. On the harbingers leg connection spot, there's a sizable gap. There was no way to prevent this either, as if I had connected it to the groin area completely, there would have been a large gap in the back which would have been harder for me to fix.
Gaps are a problem on the creepy crawly guy too:
Notice the large seam running from his shoulders to his bottom. It's a relatively easy fix, but on HIPS models using current technology, typically don't even exist. The join seem on a new Malifaux plastic, or a GW plastic probably doesn't even need to be greenstuffed because it's so small that your primer will fill the gap. That won't work here. Again, it's a relatively simple fix, but it's endemic of the shadows monsters.
And THEN when you compare it to this guy:
Who is in PVC and is absurdly highly detailed, you can perhaps see where my frustration comes from.
I promise I'm not trying to be critical just to be a dick, or to yuck someone else's yum. I'm pointing these things out because, unfortunately, the sum of all the miniatures parts with Shadows puts it well below what is "standard" for the industry for a game at that pricepoint.
Is Myth actually "standard" at that price point? Especially considering the box contains 32 figures of varying sizes for a sub $100 MSRP (available for around $65 online). Note: I'm not saying that a single piece Tentacle is equivalent to a multi-piece Harbinger, but that kind of money might get me 2 or 3 Malifaux crew boxes, with perhaps better detail, but none of the cards, dice, tiles, rulesbooks and whatnot either, and perhaps half the figures (ranging from 1-3 pieces per figure to half a dozen or more).
Basically, are SoB figures 'sub par' or are they simply being compared to the higher end and not standing up well?
If SoB is "low quality" and Myth is "average", what is "high quality"?
Note, this isn't a challenge. Again, as a noob, I recognize that I simply don't know.
Personally, I liked their LNOE and FanG figures. Not amazing stuff, but perfectly workable for boardgames, and in comparison to those the pictures I've seen for SoB look reasonably good to me.
But also note that my bar may simply be set fairly low due to that inexperience.
Is Myth actually "standard" at that price point? Especially considering the box contains 32 figures of varying sizes for a sub $100 MSRP (available for around $65 online). Note: I'm not saying that a single piece Tentacle is equivalent to a multi-piece Harbinger, but that kind of money might get me 2 or 3 Malifaux crew boxes, with perhaps better detail, but none of the cards, dice, tiles, rulesbooks and whatnot either, and perhaps half the figures (ranging from 1-3 pieces per figure to half a dozen or more).
Basically, are SoB figures 'sub par' or are they simply being compared to the higher end and not standing up well?
If SoB is "low quality" and Myth is "average", what is "high quality"?
That's actually a really interesting question!
I think the argument could be made that the "Standard" is Fantasy Flight's Descent 2E, with other games like Mice and Mystics and Gears of War being in that same tier. They all contain about the same amount of "stuff" (minis, boards, cards) and are all around $80 retail
I'd say, and again this is just me, Myth, Super Dungeon Explore and Arcadia Quest on a 'half tier' above, sitting at that magical $100 retail price point. This is also where I believe Shadows of Brimstone fits.
The problem, in my eyes, is that while the cardboard (and like I said, mine had a slight off center print on two sides--I really don't hold that against them, and its not bad enough that I care), the cards, and the manuals are all up to snuff for the $100 level, IMO the miniatures are clearly below the $100 standard, and I honestly think they're actually below the FFG $80 Standard.
Which is why I've never actually called the Shadows stuff bad; Its just a bit underwhelming, especially when you compare it to the items in market it's supposed to be competing against.
The gameplay actually looks incredibly deep and fun.
For me, it's a combination of space and simply not getting 'excited' about the minis. Its weird to me, because even at the Outlaw level, I have a metric gak ton of stuff still coming to me, and I can't even get excited about it.
cincydooley wrote: I honestly think they're actually below the FFG $80 Standard.
fwiw, I've noticed that different KS will have different sources of funding, sometimes only the backers, sometimes outside parties, often the company itself (eg. run at a loss). So, while you should shop for a good price on KS, you shouldn't expect one KS's $100 pledge should get you the same amount and quality of stuff as another $100 pledge. That's yet another risk of KS a project, rather than waiting for the product in the store. Same ditto for "renders are not miniatures", apparently.
Anyway, thanks for the pics and comparison against FFG models. BGG'ers are very happy with the gameplay. SoB was designed by the Warhammer Quest folks, so this shouldn't be surprising. At least enjoy the game!
Correct, FFP has nothing to do with the guys who made WHQ.
For the record, I've been assembling the grey plastic stuff and find it much more pleasing than the reds. Dunno if colour is the only difference, but even so they just seem nicer.
Alex C wrote: Correct, FFP has nothing to do with the guys who made WHQ.
For the record, I've been assembling the grey plastic stuff and find it much more pleasing than the reds. Dunno if colour is the only difference, but even so they just seem nicer.
Are you planning on painting them?
I couldn't think of anything useful to do with the alternate colored figures so I opted to paint them up and sell them on eBay.
EDIT: I can't find the original post that said what I said, so I'll take back my previous post, entirely. These miniatures just plain blow, considering other boardgame plastic I have to clean and assemble. Would pick it up on trade or a MM Daily Deal, but glad I missed this one.
Alex C wrote: Correct, FFP has nothing to do with the guys who made WHQ.
For the record, I've been assembling the grey plastic stuff and find it much more pleasing than the reds. Dunno if colour is the only difference, but even so they just seem nicer.
Are you planning on painting them?
I couldn't think of anything useful to do with the alternate colored figures so I opted to paint them up and sell them on eBay.
I can understand that! Hopefully you get to play it soon, I've enjoyed it. The one thing I'll say is that the saloon girl is key because she can heal characters.
I've played it 3 times now. Very enjoyable game! Many characters have access to healing abilities and anyone can take bandages, so it's usually not a problem for us so far. The little bit of healing after each fight is nice too.
We've played twice, just the intro missions and had a blast! I'm anxious to start jumping into the other worlds to see what that is like, however, until the wave2 world-specific encounters are around I'm not sure it will be that much different. We'll see though, overall pretty pleased with the game.
Alex C wrote: Correct, FFP has nothing to do with the guys who made WHQ.
For the record, I've been assembling the grey plastic stuff and find it much more pleasing than the reds. Dunno if colour is the only difference, but even so they just seem nicer.
Are you planning on painting them?
I couldn't think of anything useful to do with the alternate colored figures so I opted to paint them up and sell them on eBay.
Someday, but they're not a priority.
Are there actually ways of using them in the game? As is, can 2 people play as a Saloon Girl in one game, or does that require character cards that you won't have? Is there ever a situation where you'd be spawning multiple groups of monsters in a room? If not, does the game have a Warhammer-Quest like option for resolving room spawns via a table rather than cards, so that you can modify things that way?
Fireflyjmh wrote:We've played twice, just the intro missions and had a blast! I'm anxious to start jumping into the other worlds to see what that is like, however, until the wave2 world-specific encounters are around I'm not sure it will be that much different. We'll see though, overall pretty pleased with the game.
You should have Targa and/or Jargono world-specific encounters in the core sets.
Bioptic wrote:
Are there actually ways of using them in the game? As is, can 2 people play as a Saloon Girl in one game, or does that require character cards that you won't have? Is there ever a situation where you'd be spawning multiple groups of monsters in a room? If not, does the game have a Warhammer-Quest like option for resolving room spawns via a table rather than cards, so that you can modify things that way?
Any number of people can play the same class. If you don't have enough character boards you can photocopy blank ones from the Adventure Book (you'll use these anyway in linked games). You can absolutely have situations with multiple monster spawns, even more spawning during a fight sometimes. No tables for spawns.
Even moreso once we have all the alt figures in our hands.
I'll echo the grey pieces are nicer to work with. Easier to pick up the details. At least with all the extras I've got some ready made elites to contend with.
I love the growing dread aspect. Watching that stack continue to pile up... not pleasant, especially when you know your posse will have an epic threat to deal with as well. It really does give a sense of impending doom.
Remember that Growing Dread can be cancelled if everyone uses a Grit...
On the subject of Growing Dread, if a Growing Dread card revealed in the Objective Room moves the Depth Tracker to a Growing Dread space, are we supposed to draw another Growing Dread card? Or ignore it?
EDIT: I can't find the original post that said what I said, so I'll take back my previous post, entirely. These miniatures just plain blow, considering other boardgame plastic I have to clean and assemble. Would pick it up on trade or a MM Daily Deal, but glad I missed this one.
Bug Titeman? Nah, I'll just assume that he's talking out of his arse and that his unattributed comments are just getting parroted around on the internet. Like in this thread. Actually, I heard that Andy Chambers and Rick Priestly wrote the game whole on their summer holidays from GW a few years back - along with Nigel Stillman, but they had to keep it all hush-hush.
Some guy on BGG posted a link to a Citadel Journal on Scribd with an article by Hill on BB players in WHQ. I wonder if he knows how the Citadel Journal worked? Getting an article published in it doesn't mean you worked for workshop or had a design position there.
.... *grits teeth* I am so very happy for everyone that has won the shipping lottery today.
If it makes you feel better, mine was supposed to be here on the 25th, and then last minute they were like "Lol, maybe monday ya dick!" So I spent the whole weekend tweaking.
Worse. It's the need to twerk and yet being unable to. Gnawing at you, feeling like an exposed nerve.
But seriously, it would be nice if FFP got the word out as to how things are going with US/EU distribution, and tossed us ROW folks a bone. The comments are getting testy, and we're barely into Month 2 of what was estimated to be a 3 month shipping adventure.
By "tossing us a bone" do you mean telling us that we're boned? Because shipping is apparently hard and they haven't had any opportunity or time to work out how much these things might cost or solutions to the issue.
Unless you buy them off the webstore, in which case - worldwide free shipping!
Adrian "Sheriff Adrian Meyers" Boddice about 1 hour ago
Just got a response from FFP;
We are still working on a better shipping price for AU backers. There was, unfortunately, no movement on this for the past two weeks because we were in Germany with no wifi.
Seriously? *sigh*
Well, looks like any chance of Australians getting it before end of year are all but out the window. At this rate, having it for CanCon (January 23rd to 26th) is unlikely. Not impressed with the response above. We went from "simultaneous US + Non-EU ROW" to a month later, yeah, we're still working out HOW to ship it. That they blew two weeks indicates to me a complete lack of priority. Especially if they do go retail before end of November.
Glad I didn't waste my money on Wave 1.5. Really quite pissed.
... look, if that $20 is THAT important, I'm sure at least some Aussies are willing to pay it.
I mean, that's reductive, I get that they have to account for both the current package AND whatever giant package wave 2 will make up (surely a good size for Outlaws, and a huge one for MC's), but seriously guys... this shouldn't be this hard.
Apparently my earlier joke was truer than I realized. Forget shipping, time to hope they start attending Canadian conventions. Seems to be the only way for the ROW to get their stuff in a timely fashion.
These guys need to try harder both in figuring out how to ship everything to everyone, and also in coming up with better excuses when they don't/can't!
It is a shame that so many of these KS projects get derailed in the shipping phase of things. Honestly, you'd think that would be the easiest part of it compared with printing, lining up artists, molds, etc.
Fireflyjmh wrote: It is a shame that so many of these KS projects get derailed in the shipping phase of things. Honestly, you'd think that would be the easiest part of it compared with printing, lining up artists, molds, etc.
Or not.
Shipping, with the variable rates that continue to increase and the lack of control most companies have when getting stuff shipped, via boat, from China, is one of the hardest things to account for in a project.
This has been supported by MULTIPLE established companies that have run KS projects.
Shipping, with the variable rates that continue to increase and the lack of control most companies have when getting stuff shipped, via boat, from China, is one of the hardest things to account for in a project.
This has been supported by MULTIPLE established companies that have run KS projects.
Freight today is the same as freight tomorrow which will be the same as freight in a decade time, the prices might change but the methods wont. If they thoroughly investigated the options early in the KS and then simply updated their information (price/timelines etc) at the appropriate time then the decision is a simple one.
Air or Sea
Individual parcels or Palletized Orders
Full container load or partial container load
Direct to customer or organize a distribution hub
I think it is pretty obvious that MULTIPLE companies dont have a clue when it comes to freight which is evidenced by the stupidly low extra shipping charges for international pledges. This is compounded by multiple waves of shipping.
Yes, prices do change in a year or two but if you look at Kickstarter threads one of the first things that interational customers look at is freight costs and when those customers say things like "their going to make a loss with us" before the KS hasnt even ended, it is plainly obvious that these companies are either getting some amazing freight deal or are seriously cutting their throat looking for international customers.
Here are some examples of "wow thats cheap" KS freight charges
MERCS: Recon - Add $24 USD to ship outside the US
MERCS: Myth - Add $13 USD to ship outside the US
Shadows over Brimstone - Add $25 USD to ship outside the US
Robotech - Add $30 USD to ship outside the US
Sedition Wars - Add $25 for international shipping.
MangoMadness wrote: Here are some examples of "wow thats cheap" KS freight charges
MERCS: Recon - Add $24 USD to ship outside the US
MERCS: Myth - Add $13 USD to ship outside the US
Shadows over Brimstone - Add $25 USD to ship outside the US
Robotech - Add $30 USD to ship outside the US
Sedition Wars - Add $25 for international shipping.
While those are still low, there's also the initial shipping factor that needs to be included. Example, Robotech Tactics and Shadows provided "free" (read "factored in") shipping on their domestic pledges. So the actual shipping costs collected are nominally higher. No idea what shipping within the US is, but it'd have to be $10+ per box, no? So that'd be $40 and $45 (two boxes for SoB) respectively. Not enough, obviously, but not as bad.
The only reason I bring this up, is because I've noticed several campaigns since, Reaper's CAV being the one I'm most familiar with, that has factored in shipping for their base price, THEN wants international freight costs on top of that. So, in essence, I would be paying part of the initial pledge for shipping I don't get a rebate on. Thankfully I'll be sending it to family in Indy, and lugging it home after GenCon (next year if it's on time, the year after, if it's not).
At least with DP9's Heavy Gear, there's a fixed shipping price for US/Canada, and a replacement cost for international. So everyone pays shipping. But taking that into account, I went big and so don't have to worry about shipping at all. Hope they factored that in.
I believe it's a standard requirement of KS that shipping has to be included in the pledge tier for the country it funds in ("Free shipping", but let's be real, nothing is free, at least some of that money is dedicated for shipping unless they're morons).
I mean, they'd have to be crazy to not account for the cost of shipping hundreds or thousands of packages out. Physical rewards (production of and shipping of) have been KS margin killers for years. People were talking about losing money on KS campaigns due to irresponsible physical rewards (especially for otherwise non-physical objects like video games) for at least 3 or 4 years.
That shipping costs and challenges remain 'a thing' for so many campaigns is indicative of people simply not doing their research. Yes, some years can go by and shipping costs can jump unexpectedly, and let's not forget that money received during the campaign gets a good 8-10% or so haircut, so that $40 for shipping might only be $36 or so, etc.
I empathize with the matter, but this shouldn't be a shocker to anyone, so that empathy does only go so far.
The costs going up 5 or 10 percent or whatever, that's unfortunate. "omg shipping to Australia is a big thing" really shouldn't be a surprise.
Edit: also, let's keep in mind that Australia keeps getting bandied about as The Worst Case Scenario: What The Feth?
But it's not like Canada should be a big deal, to look at a simpler (and admittedly self serving) other part of "ROW".
) - but I'm thinking it will be well after Gencon, because as of right now, they don't even know where to ship anything...
