I just panicked and went in at outlaw, when I compared it to...getting any other dungeon crawl miniatures game at retail. The minis are bland - they're board gaming pieces, single piece and designed for mass production in plastic. On the other hand, they're robust and look a lot better than many equivalents in the genre, and even the outlaw level provides a decent amount of variety.
For the record, I actually think the setting is rather weak - a pandering mix of 2 popular genres, although at least it wasn't busty zombie pirates!
I'm of the completely opposite opinion - I think the miniatures look great and are a good compromise between board games and war games and the setting is fantastic.
Weird Wild West is second only to Weird War II for me!
So much so that I'm in at Minecart and I love all of these stretch goals and add-ons!
I love the setting so have pledged at mine craft since day one but added a little extra today for duplicates of terrain packs 1 & c, extra bear, a couple bags of Dark stones and a couple of sets of dice (leaning towards Outlaw and Lawman dice).
I'm really curious about the people saying the minis are bland. I think they're wonderful, especially the heroes, who capture the look and feel of pretty authentic and life-like figures.
So I'm legitimately wondering what would make them not bland. Should we follow the GW example and give them odd bodily proportions and stick a bunch of crosses and skulls all over them to make them not so bland? And what is the measure of a mini that is not bland? Infinity? Expecting as much value and SGs from someone doing Infinity quality minis is... well... never gonna happen.
I'd gladly give up my $75 worth of 'extras' for a $325 or $350 Minecart!
So would I! All the early mine cart pledges were gone by the time I signed up. I was at mine cart 4, gave that up earlier for a mine cart 7 to let someone else have my spot.
greywulf wrote: I'm really curious about the people saying the minis are bland. I think they're wonderful, especially the heroes, who capture the look and feel of pretty authentic and life-like figures.
So I'm legitimately wondering what would make them not bland. Should we follow the GW example and give them odd bodily proportions and stick a bunch of crosses and skulls all over them to make them not so bland? And what is the measure of a mini that is not bland? Infinity? Expecting as much value and SGs from someone doing Infinity quality minis is... well... never gonna happen.
Yeah. I think the minis, especially for a board game, are really quite good.
I want to kick this, does anyone have a recommendation for best bang for the buck? It's not as clear to me what are free stretch goals, and what are not.
Sasori wrote: I want to kick this, does anyone have a recommendation for best bang for the buck? It's not as clear to me what are free stretch goals, and what are not.
All stretch goals are free with the outlaw level and above. Massive amount of minis for the money. Minecart also includes the addons for free.
Automatically Appended Next Post: New paint set addons (note included in mine cart) have been added.
Sasori wrote: I want to kick this, does anyone have a recommendation for best bang for the buck? It's not as clear to me what are free stretch goals, and what are not.
Outlaw or Minecart.
Minecart is a little more expensive, but looking well worth it with everything.
Outlaw is good if your strapped for cash though. It also is a good deal for that price.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Are these figures the same sort of plastic as the figures in Last Night On Earth?
Sasori wrote: I want to kick this, does anyone have a recommendation for best bang for the buck? It's not as clear to me what are free stretch goals, and what are not.
Outlaw or Minecart.
Minecart is a little more expensive, but looking well worth it with everything..
A LOT more expensive.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Are these figures the same sort of plastic as the figures in Last Night On Earth?
I remember them saying they were more similar to the material used for Zombicide.
So have we mentioned the latest stretch goals yet? Doesn't look like it. The Harvestors are locked in, and we're off to bigger and better things!
Spoiler:
1.25 nets everyone at outlaw and up a blacksmith ally figure with new rules and stuff
1.3 gets everyone at outlaw and up an XL sized dark stone hydra (that looks suspiciously like a rattlesnake, which was bandied about by people in the comments for a while)
Plus new add ons-
Robot sentries for the derelict ship, Trederran ecounter cards, and in the green add ons we've got Army Painter paint sets too.
1,2 Mio passed , Harvesters unlocked.
Last three days had 43k, 51k and 85k on pledges.
Today 40k comments passed and more than 8k comments in the last few hours.
Update #26
The FINAL COUNTDOWN! Custom Dice! Bag of Plastic Dark Stone! New Art Collector Level! More to Come...
Hello Everyone!
We are in the final hours of the Kickstarter now and it is going crazy! Lots of Stretch Goals unlocking since my last update!
Highly Requested Add-Ons Now Available!
Plus, we've been adding lots of goodies to the Optional Add-Ons Menu as well, including the most requested items from Backers over the last month - Custom Dice and a Bag of Plastic Dark Stone pieces! Let's take a look:
New Art Collector Level!
We just revised the "ART COLLECTOR" Pledge Level to make an OUTLAW version and a MINE CART version. This is a rare chance to get a one of a kind piece of the game! Original concept art from the development of Shadows of Brimstone, autographed by artist, Brian Snoddy! These are beautiful concept sketches at 8.5" x 11" and are suitable for framing.
More to Come...
It's not over yet, in the hours leading up to the end of the Kickstarter Campaign, we have more cool stuff to add and hopefully more Stretch Goals to reveal and unlock! If there has ever been a time to tell your friends and fellow gamers about this project, it is NOW!
@Biopic: Sounds like you're better off spending $150 on the upcoming HeroQuest KS on Monday.
@Sasori: Outlaw is the best value. IMO, The add-ons are overpriced for USA. However, since you're overseas, I understand imported games are *realy* expensive, so the add-on prices might be reasonable for foreign markets. FFP said the add-ons would be available on their website. Good luck!
fwiw, FFP added "Warpaints" to their add-ons, but it looks like an Army Painter Starter Set, which you can get at about the same price (and sooner!) at an OLGS.
Not pledging, but am interested in a base game if anyone wants to trade away a copy!
@ced - I actually think the projects cover very different market segments!
SoB doesn't require a GM, so is a pure co-op game, and the miniatures are kept to a simple level and single-piece so they can be used right out of the box and aren't fragile. The value for money is also high, as it isn't being pitched as a 'premium' game.
Conversely, HeroQuest requires someone to control the monsters (so is most analogous to Descent), will feature 'restic' models of possibly higher quality but will almost certainly require assembly, and is marketing itself as a premium experience - combined with it being a European project, I'd expect the value for money to be significantly lower. Without the GW license, it's also probably going to be as generic as fantasy gets - although I understand that this is the flavour of the original game.
I think the closest recent competitor to MoB was actually Journey, which finished yesterday - both co-op, but this being definitely skewed more towards huge detailed models that they were asking more of a premium for.
The theme may well grow on me - it's not as Cthulhu-focused as I thought from the 2 base boxes.
Update #27
The Final Hours! Let's Celebrate with New Add-Ons!
Hey Guys!
This Campaign isn't over yet, we're blowing through Stretch Goals and to celebrate the final hours of the Kickstarter, we've just added THREE AWESOME NEW ADD-ONS! All of these are included FREE for pledgers at the MINE CART Level. Let's take a look...
More Stretch Goals will be added soon to help define the path to the OtherWorld: Belly of the Beast! Keep the fires burning!
Thanks, Scott
Also, Trun Hunters (big alien hunters with scales and guns) added as 1,35 Mio $ stretch goal, while the Hydra is unlocked.
Already 152k $ of pledges today (and 10k comments ).
I would find it weird if you could not. Pledge Manager add-ons cut out KS's piece of the pie, so mean more money on a dollar by dollar basis to the project owner.
Well, they added 6 Trederran Mutants as 1,4 Mio and 6 Tribal Ghost Warriors as 1,45 Mio. $ stretch goals, to fill the gap to the Belly of the Beast goal.
Spoiler:
But that might be a bit optimistic with just 5 minutes to go.
Edit: Okay, now funded with $1,341,155 and 4,726 backers.
Congratulations!
Wow. Quite a few ****s pulled out with 5 minutes or less to go. I've never seen that many on any of the projects I've backed. Guess some folks just want to see that last goal fail. If they were going to leave, they would have done so long before the extreme end of the final day.
Moopy wrote: Wow. Quite a few ****s pulled out with 5 minutes or less to go. I've never seen that many on any of the projects I've backed. Guess some folks just want to see that last goal fail. If they were going to leave, they would have done so long before the extreme end of the final day.
People were saying earlier how easy it is for people to create multiple KS accounts.
Unfortunately, that's a double edged sword.
Could've been some jackass trolling, could've been a single or multiple buyers who all had cold feet with a half a grand bill staring them in the face. The timing makes me think it's intentional, but we knew there'd be some churn at the end. I just didn't expect us to lose like 7 grand in a couple minutes.
More along the lines of people hoping FFP would see the light and come to some sort of reasonable compromise on the whole MCEB issue... alas, it was not to be.
There were people on BGG a couple of weeks ago discussing doing pretty much what appears to have happened (I was at work when this ended, so I didn't get to see it "live".
Automatically Appended Next Post: The Hell Train was really a bit of a push too far. I wonder if they'll let Pledge Manager funds unlock things like the 1.35 goal, since from what you guys are saying it was pretty much at that point.
Update #28
Thank you all for an unforgettable experience and your great support!
Hello Brimstone Gang!!!
We are still in shock. I keep refreshing the Kickstarter page but the numbers aren't changing! What does that mean? I think sleep is in order. For like...a week. Seriously, though, all of us here at Flying Frog are just SO overwhelmed by the flood of support from you guys! Some of you are long time fans of our games, while others are discovering us for the first time with Shadows of Brimstone. But, to all of you, THANK YOU for joining us on this ride and making this game explode into the furthest extents of its potential! Before we even thought of taking this project to Kickstarter, we were working on pre-production and concepting for years. I can remember having discussions like "what if you could play as a Wandering Samurai?" but while we thought it was cool, that kind of idea would be possible only after years of expansions that fill out the more standard Hero Classes. The success of this campaign has allowed us to do all of the standard stuff and a lot of the crazy stuff, too. We were so excited every time one of our more outlandish enemies, heroes, or worlds made it to reality in this Kickstarter. That being said, there are some cool things that we did not get in the Kickstarter and you can bet, we'll be interested in bringing those to life at some point!
One amazing, heartwarming surprise, was the community that formed around the game! A great group of gamers that found each other here in the KS Comments, on BGG, TheZombieGame.com and BrimstoneCowboy.com! And it will only grow and get better as the game gets closer to release, and beyond! We would like to thank everyone that took part and followed the campaign along the way. We couldn't have done it without you!
While there were only three of us running the Kickstarter every day and night, we had the support of some awesome folks along the way. Their contributions ranged from making amazing art or helping to playtest, to bringing us food when we weren't eating because we couldn't leave the computer. Thank you all!
Well, that's it. See you in August!
Just kidding, we'll still be sending out updates with info and new artwork and miniature sculpts as they roll in. We consider you guys "insiders" on this project and we will continue this journey together!
Actually, in a day full of surprises, we have one more thing to show off - we just got the amazing new sculpts for the Hellfire Succubi! Take a look...
There were people on BGG a couple of weeks ago discussing doing pretty much what appears to have happened (I was at work when this ended, so I didn't get to see it "live".
Automatically Appended Next Post: The Hell Train was really a bit of a push too far. I wonder if they'll let Pledge Manager funds unlock things like the 1.35 goal, since from what you guys are saying it was pretty much at that point.
That would be nice - those 1.35M and 1.4M goals were pretty nice.
We can leave the "Belly of the Beast" and "Helltrain" Otherworlds expansions for...after KS retail expansions!
Jan 10, 2014
What what what??? UPDATE TIME! 12 comments
31 likes
Hello Everybody! HAPPY NEW YEAR!
I know it's been quiet round these parts lately, but we've been BUSY, BUSY, BUSY! Which is probably what you guys want most - make those games! There have been many projects keeping the studio buzzing the last few weeks! For all of our Last Night on Earth fans, the big news is that we just got our shipment of the new Blood in the Forest Expansion and we've been working many late nights to get it out the door to all of the people that Pre-Ordered it from us at Gen Con, PAX, and when it went debuted on our Web Store for our Black Friday Sale. Now, it's being shipped out to all of our distribution partners and should filter out to stores over the next few weeks.
We've also been working hard on the upcoming A Touch of Evil: Dark Gothic Deck Building Card Game. This is our first product with Custom Dice and it is both rewarding and challenging. But, enough about other games, most of you are wanting to know how Shadows of Brimstone is progressing! Rest assured that we have an incredible team of artists toiling away making very, very cool illustrations and miniatures. Let's take a look at some new stuff...
Here are some beautiful new illustrations from Polish artist, Morano:
Above is an illustration of a group of adventurers choking on a Poisonous Mist! Below is an illustration of the sexy but deadly Hellfire Succubi demons in the Caverns of Cynder!
Potentially NSFW:
Spoiler:
Meanwhile, Flying Frog's own Brian Snoddy has been creating jaw-droppingly cool illustrations for weapons, gear, items, and artifacts. Here is a pic of him working, followed by an image of some of the Item illustrations:
As you know, Shadows of Brimstone features miniatures sculpted by several talented artists, using both traditional and digital sculpting. Below is a picture of Daniel at Flying Frog, digitally sculpting on one of the new Shadows of Brimstone creatures. Below that are some pictures of Daniel's new sculpt of the Harbinger - the biggest, baddest creature in the Shadows of Brimstone: Swamps of Death Boxed Set:
As you can see, lots of cool new stuff is in the works. We'll continue to keep you updated as we have more to show!
Thanks,
Scott
Update #31
Jan 10, 2014
More info about the powerful Harbinger...
13 comments
27 likes
Oops! I forgot to include new information about the Harbinger from designer, Jason C. Hill. So, here is the info with some images of the Harbinger:
The massive, demonic Harbinger is one of the most fearsome creatures yet encountered by those that delve down into the cursed mines near Brimstone. With sprawling bat-like wings and long, sinewy limbs, nothing can escape the Harbinger’s foul reach! Its bony, horned skull head holds no eyes, but rather a row of pitted nostrils to sniff out its prey in the dark, and consume the flesh of unwary explorers with its vicious maw of razor sharp teeth. Often accompanied by a swarm of slithering Hell Bats, the Harbinger brings doom to all who gaze upon him and despair to those that hear his name!
The Harbinger is a massive XL creature that the Heroes can find as an Epic Level Threat while exploring the mines or Otherworlds in Shadows of Brimstone. With a terrifying presence and the capacity for Flight, the Harbinger can move swiftly over intervening models to attack any of the Heroes at any time…no one is safe! It is also unpredictable in its attacks as it has several options to randomly choose from each turn including Regeneration, a powerful Sweeping Strike, or the ability to summon a swarm of Hell Bats to join the fight! The Harbinger is not to be taken lightly; even if you survive, you may never recover from the mental scars to your sanity!
Have a great weekend everyone!
Thanks,
Scott
All looking really good.
Can't wait for August 2014 or, you know, whenever!
Agreed. It's a shame that the "1 to 2 weeks" it was supposed to take for us to get an update became over 5 weeks, and that these seem to have been spurred on by backers reaching out to the company via email and phone calls, but I like what I see.
Hopefully now that the holidays are passed and several other projects are done or heading out the door they'll be able to have someone dedicate a little time every couple weeks to hook us up. I can only speak for myself, but I really liked seeing shots of things as works in progress.
Some KS backers are crazy and seem to think that people demand to hear every last little detail and hourly updates. I don't think it's unreasonable that if a company says they'll fire off an update every week or two that people expect them to follow through on it. It's something I see with several other projects; we didn't set the timeline, they did. Surely they are cognizant enough of their schedules and available manpower that they can at least figure out who might have a spare half hour here and there to get in touch.
They don't even need pretty pictures to go with an update- just give us some text telling us what they're working on, and how things are progressing. Most of us would be happy!
This applies to pretty much every kickstarter ever too. Spare us a few sentences every few days or weeks, the bulk of your backers will be quite content. Something along the lines of:
"This week we're working on the flying walrus sculpts. We had some of the art for the robot sock monkey deck completed as well. We weren't happy with the underground candyland tiles, so we're working on new concepts with our artists. Stay tuned for pictures of them in the next few weeks!"
And voila- we know what they're up to, we know more information will be forthcoming, and probably the bulk of the backers would be anticipating more information in the future, keeping the interest and hype levels up.
Jan 27, 2014
Call Forth the Night Terror and Unleash the Void Hounds! Plus, New Map Tiles and Item Illustrations!
19 comments
54 likes
Hello Brimstone Fans!
Hope all is well with you and that you are surviving this chilly season! We've been working long hours to bring all of the cool concepts and designs in Shadows of Brimstone to life. This update, we will focus on two powerful creatures from the game, the Night Terror and the Void Hound. ]
Night Terrors
Standing nearly 10 feet tall, the Night Terror is a hideous demon with sunken glowing eyes, a grotesquely wide mouth, lined with razor sharp teeth, and covered in dark blue fur and rocky skin. Often found roaming the icy halls of the long dead cities of the Targa Plateau, the Night Terror’s dark and thick fur allows it to move unseen in the shadows. Its clawed hands can rend a man limb-from-limb in a single sweep of its mighty arms, yet it often prefers to grab hold of unwary explorers and steal away with them into the dark night! Where it takes the unlucky victims is unknown, but it is rare that any have escaped the clutches and lived to tell the tale. Many times the only indication of the presence of a Night Terror is the faint menace of its gurgling and hissing in the dark, the likes of which will causes a chill to the bone on a primitive level of sheer terror.
Void Hounds
One of the most feared and savage creatures yet encountered deep in the mines are the Void Hounds. These brutal beasts dwell in the void between worlds, stalking the ether for their next prey. As skilled hunters, Void Hounds have mastered the ability to phase in and out of the Void as they move, passing through time and space as they go. This allows them to attack whomever they choose, anywhere…at any time, then slip back into the Void to escape! Attacking in packs, Void Hounds often work together to strike, swapping between targets as they fight to disorient and divide. Void Hounds have even been known to stalk their prey from the void, following them for hours or days before striking when least expected. You never know when a Void Hound is lurking, laying in wait, just beyond the boundaries of your perception.
So Many Items!
Last update, we gave you a first look at some of the brilliant illustrations of Gear, Artifacts, and Items that Brian Snoddy has been working on here at the Flying Frog Studio. There are a TON of these in the game - I mean, half of the fun of playing a dungeon crawl is finding cool new stuff to trick out your character! As gamers, ourselves, we love to drool over these beautiful paintings. So, we suspect that you, too, will enjoy seeing more of these with each update.
New Map Tiles
I realize that we haven't shown any map tiles in a while. But, rest assured, we've been working hard on them as well. Flying Frog's own Matt Morgaine has been toiling away on these incredibly detailed board pieces for the last few years! That hard work and dedication shows in every single piece. Take a look at some new map tiles from the Mines:
Well, that about wraps up this update! We're excited to see that the Brimstone community is still going strong and your excitement and anticipation definitely fuels us to make Shadows of Brimstone the biggest and baddest game of its kind!
Thanks,
Scott
Looking good, of course!
Though I would like to see more 'actual miniatures' for the weird creatures and not just renders.
And this KS did really, really well, and added in a lot of extras.
Interesting to see them working on the Void Hound, as that's a stretch goal. Indicative that the core boxes are mostly covered, or simply part of the big swathe of stuff they're working on and hope to have ready in the next 6 months?
Really like the Night Terrors. Seems to be appropriately big and intimidating, at least going by the artwork. I wish they'd have included the bandito to give us an idea how big those hairballs are.
I've got a soft spot for glowing eyed evil shaggy creatures. One of my favorite types of monsters.
That hind leg of the void hound looks like someone copied and pasted one of the front paws to the rear.
Look at that product line and tell me it isn't a boardgame trying to build a miniatures game's product line (and thus, hopefully ongoing income)?
If they really do have all those figure packs sold separately (as opposed to in larger core'ish sized expansion boxes), they'll have enough SKU's to intimidate several skirmish games.
I mean, sure, one could print off cardboard pieces and play without a single figure on the board, but with the talk of painting up the minis and selling paint in the KS campaign itself, they seem to be pushing that facet significantly harder than any of their previous ventures.
Even a fully kitted out Last Night on Earth collection will pale in comparison to SoB.
It's a successor to the Descent style of dungeon bash - with lots and lots of add-ons as well, but one thing it doesn't seem to be is a miniatures game any more than Descent, Ravenloft, Space Hulk, Incursion, Myth - etc. It's not a skirmish system etc - it's a boardgame that uses miniatures.
I'm just saying it's in the wrong subforum, is all.
Feb 10 2014
New Art! Swamp Raptor! Jargono Map Tiles! First Public Appearances!
25 comments
39 likes
Hello Brimstone Gang!!!
Time for an update! We're hard at work on Shadows of Brimstone and have more illustrations, models, and game boards to show. Plus, we're very excited to announce the first public appearances of the game! First, let's take a look at the enemy that we will focus on for this update - it was a fan favorite during the Kickstarter campaign...The Jargono Swamp Raptor!
Swamp Raptor
Stalking the murky swamps of Jargono, the vicious Swamp Raptor is one of the largest predators around! Even the vile serpentmen fear the massive beast, slithering away in terror at the very mention of its name. Able to outpace most other creatures with its mighty stride, the Swamp Raptor’s iron jaws can tear the flesh from your bones in an instant, or even snap a man in half with one powerful crunch! The native tribal Humans of Jargono call it ‘No’ke La surrat’; loosely translated to, the ‘devil in the dark’ as the Swamp Raptor can move very silently for its size and will often strike without warning from the shadowy cover of the dense swamp trees. There have been legends told of Swamp Raptors attacking in pairs, or even as a pack, but to most of the tribesmen, the very thought of this prospect is too terrifying to believe.
The Swamp Raptor is an enormous XL creature that the Heroes can find as an Epic level Threat while exploring the Swamps of Jargono or even in other worlds or the mines, having followed its prey through a portal only to find a new and untapped feeding ground to temporarily satiate its limitless appetite! When it comes to speed and raw vicious power, the Swamp Raptor is virtually second to none! Encountering one of these massive beasts could spell the end of your mission…and maybe even, your life!
First, Flying Frog's own Daniel Samuelsson sculpted this model in a powerful and dynamic "charging" pose. Then, for stability, we added a piece of temple ruins covered in roots under the Raptor's right foot. Most of these images of the model show it before the temple ruin addition. But, you can see this addition in the image above (top left raptor pic). We thought it would be fun to mention this and show the model before and after. It's all part of the development and now you guys will know why that piece is part of the model.
New Illustrations
Lots of new illustration work has been progressing. Which is good, because this game has a lot of art! Let's take a look at a new illustration 'Flood of Bats' from Polish artist Morano:
Next let's check in on the amazing item illustrations from Flying Frog's own Brian Snoddy:
Swamps of Jargono Map Tiles
We're pleased to show off more beautiful map tiles for the Swamps of Jargono. These were hand-painted in excruciating detail by Flying Frog's Matt Morgaine. He's been working on the board art for Shadows of Brimstone for a few years now (this is a HUGE project!) and it's exciting for us to share it with you now! He has completed the board art for both core box sets and is now working on Caverns of Cynder and Trederra map tiles.
Shadows of Brimstone in the Wild
As I mentioned at the top of this update, we're very excited to announce the first public appearances of the game! Next month, Flying Frog Productions will be showing the game at our booth at the 2014 GAMA Trade Show in Las Vegas! If you're at the show, be sure to come by and say hello. Just two weeks later, we are celebrating International Tabletop Day 2014 by giving fans their first chance to play the game in Seattle, WA! The Flying Frog team will be out at Card Kingdom in Seattle from 2:30-7:30PM on Saturday, April 5th, running game demos of Shadows of Brimstone and our exciting new Deck-Building Game, Dark Gothic! If you are in the area, be sure to mark your calendars and come join us!
Forar wrote: Agreed. My friends and I fell in love with the idea of having 'western Star Gate adventures' with an ongoing campaign system.
... now I want to make a gear card for a P90.
I hope they have some modern items in there, seeing as one of the expansions was undead spacemen. So some modern/futuristic items with "magical" properties would be totally flavorful when written with an old west flare.
This has the potential to be a great campaign game if characters can grow with skills/abilities/feats or what have you. If it's only card based items that carry over to a new game, then I don't think it will be as enjoyable for a campaign.
They've mentioned what sound like "talent trees" for characters, so it does seem there's a measure of permanent advancement. Allowing gear to carry on as well might make for some scaling issues (characters rapidly outpace the average foe) but that can work out as 'baked into the system' with it simply rewarding players for intentionally 'hitting out of their weight class', so to speak (ie; playing with an encounter deck better suited for 5 players when they only have 4; higher risks, higher rewards).
I think the gear is kind of like D&D, that you have a "party rating" or something, for what you draw or include in the deck for scaling purposes. Otherwise you'd always have your basic peashooter, which might not be all that effective against that XL sized monster or boss...
I swear they had made mention of scaling via the encounter or threat deck or something... it's been a while and I don't want to have to shift through all those comments.
And I'm pretty sure I even asked them that at one point!
I'm waiting to either corrupt or burn a town down.
You can most definitely have shoot outs in town. Stop bank robberies, rob the bank or other shops yourself, get the whole town corrupted and mutated with darkstone, stave off an undead invasion... those are a few I remember them mentioning when I continued pestering them about it.
Yeah, given that we're half a year from delivery, I still think it's kind of a low priority. Doubly so since we know that Wave One may be a bit of a moving target; until we're closer to August, they may simply not know what will and won't be available. They've said their aiming to do the two core boxes, and other things as time permits, but to try to judge that all this far out would risk over-promising (outright bad, obviously) or having to constantly revise things.
Now, I do believe they said that the PM would be coming 'soon', so that's on them, but this is a project I wouldn't mind having a PM pop a bit late for.
Obviously they need to do it months before they're even remotely glancing at delivery; they need to know how much of each thing to produce (even if it's just the base boxes, people will order more, I'm sure) as it'd be a logistical nightmare to try to get people to fill that all out and collect any extra money necessary on short notice with this many people, but I could see putting it off at least a little longer.
I doubt there'll be all that many folks buying multiples of most of the add ons, it's probably fairly safe to say that there's a fairly firm cap to go to with this stuff.
I agree that they need the numbers eventually, but until they're verging on molds being made, I just don't see it as a burning issue that some backers in the KS comments are getting a bit heated over.
But I will also agree that the weeks are starting to run low to get that all settled out with enough time in place to have the PM run for a reasonable period of time to let everyone sort their stuff out. March? April? Including time to produce molds, punch out thousands of each figure and ship 'em across and ocean and then off to Backers, maybe May? Run the PM for May, production in June, shipping in July, but even that's a bit of a tight timeline, compared to a number of other miniatures heavy KS campaigns I've seen, and leaves very little leeway for snags in said production or other hold ups (customs, shipping delays, etc).
Advocating patience as I have, I guess really we're only a month or two away from things getting awfully tight.
Unless they decide to only do the two boxes and ship those alone (not even extras) during the first wave. It might not make people happy, but it'd likely be the easiest thing logistically.
Automatically Appended Next Post: That all said... my favourite part of this (and this is with a lot of eye rolling) is that this really is now a race (for me) between FFP and Palladium to see who delivers on their giant blockbuster campaign first.
Both are aiming to deliver the first wave of their product by August (PB claims they want to ship to backers in June, maybe even May, but I'll believe that when I see the box, err, crate in my apartment), but despite SoB's campaign finishing roughly half a year after PB's, if I were to put money on the matter, I'd still be leaning towards FFP getting me some stuff first.
It's actually a 3 way race with Wyrd's Through the Breach RPG (also expected to be at Gencon), but that campaign finished in January 2013, and reportedly would be delivering in March of this year (after failing to hit their August/September of 2013 target), and supposedly they're mostly done writing the books, so I'm hoping they aren't actually in the running. As that'd be pretty obnoxious.
I don't know that the design and mold considerations are the same between RRT and SoB. The RRT stuff will all be hard plastic, while I imagine all the SoB stuff will be single piece boardgame quality plastic, more like Zombicide. Still great quality and even paintable, but not the same as GW or other miniatures. So that should make the mould cutting and other stuff much easier and quicker.
I think that they'll push for some of their XL pieces to be at GenCon, for that WOW factor! So, I don't think we'll get a large percentage of the add-ons, but I can see a couple extras being sent out with the core games.
To get it into everyones hands though, before selling them at GenCon, that will be interesting to see as they list the whole month of August for delivery. But they are already showcasing the games, running demos, so I hope the rules are good, and the campaign system well developed. Really looking forward to playing this with the family!
Also, I would imagine they're fairly well along development- wise if they'll be doing public demos at that trade show they mentioned. It's supposed to be in April I believe?
I think Greed's right. We'll probably see a few showstopper type XL/ XXL expansions available (or at least prototypes of them) to really help draw in passers by at Gen Con.
Alpharius wrote: I thought that FFP said that the miniatures in this game were a cut above "board game plastic"?
Everyone says their stuff is the bestest quality. Remember the promises from McVey about Sedition Wars? Who's definition of Boardgame plastic are we using, anyway? Cheap Chinese Ludo pieces, the hat and car from Monopoly or FFG's Gears of War/Relic PVC?
All good points, but I'd hope after the Sedition Wars Debacle, and the ongoing Mantic Restic Stumbles, that companies would be a bit...smarter when throwing out claims.
I think taking Zombiecide/Descent/Gears etc as simply "boardgame plastic" is setting yourself up for disappointment.
Are you putting Zombiecide into "good quality boardgame" plastic? If so, that's great. I haven't had a lot of interaction with newer boardgames, so I am not sure. I hope that SoB is excellent quality plastic, though I doubt I paint much of it. Just play it as is. Too much RRT stuff to paint this fall!
I'm assuming/hoping that it'll be up to their usual standard, if not a little better (leaning more towards the harder Fortune & Glory and Conquest of Planet Earth figures, as opposed to the softer Last Night on Earth figures).
I mean, cash has been sent, apparently a demo is going to occur soon (it'd be nice if they updated more often, but their communication wasn't strong during the campaign either, so it's not like Robotech where they were great while taking money and then went silent for weeks and weeks post campaign).
That's a form of consistency at least. >.>
It's funny, but despite having paid in for roughly equal (rather excessive) amounts between those two campaigns, this is the one I don't really worry about. At least FFP has released games in the last half decade that I enjoy. Palladium struggles to release their lunch schedule.
... I guess what I'm saying is that I've finally had a rough enough Kickstarter experience to lower my standards.
I think taking Zombiecide/Descent/Gears etc as simply "boardgame plastic" is setting yourself up for disappointment.
Are you putting Zombiecide into "good quality boardgame" plastic? If so, that's great. I haven't had a lot of interaction with newer boardgames, so I am not sure. I hope that SoB is excellent quality plastic, though I doubt I paint much of it. Just play it as is. Too much RRT stuff to paint this fall!
Embarrassingly, I haven't looked hard enough at the Zombicide figures I got, since the last three times I planned to get it all out and play it all fell through - though I know theypaintup pretty well. (Links to my mate Cash's blog site).
Point being that "boardgame plastic" is a huge, non-specific brush, and very easy to assume that figures held to be on the better end of the medium to be "typical" - and therefore "this one will be even better" - seems a good way to extreme disappointment.
You know CashWiley, Azazel? That really is quite a paintjob on the Zombicide figure, although I think that speaks to his skill more than the figure quality.
Alpharius wrote: All good points, but I'd hope after the Sedition Wars Debacle, and the ongoing Mantic Restic Stumbles, that companies would be a bit...smarter when throwing out claims.
We'll see soon enough here though!
I wonder why it's considered the "sedition wars debacle" all the while Mantic is given a pass ("stumbles") after their repeated inability to produce a decent miniature.
Expectation differences maybe? We all expect Mantics stuff to be middling?
That's clearly part of it, Studio McVey were known only as a high end resin mini manufacturer so too many people expected their plastic to be identical
(not helped by over optimistic talk about quality during the campaign)
and the big delays in delivery also helped sour things up (the promised solo rules are still not available)
and the fact that some (but by no means all) of the paid extras from the second wave were too small (scale wise)
Mantic as you say does not carry the same high expectation, and is, at least, on time
I guess I was just trying to make the sentence flow better though - trust me, I think that Sedition Wars and much of what Mantic has done in their KS campaigns are debacles!
RiTides wrote: You know CashWiley, Azazel? That really is quite a paintjob on the Zombicide figure, although I think that speaks to his skill more than the figure quality.
Yeah, we've known one another on another forum for several years. I'm one of the ones you can blame for him painting minis again after a decade or two off. He's really gone full-force into mini painting as art and wanting to better his skills, etc.
Alpharius wrote: All good points, but I'd hope after the Sedition Wars Debacle, and the ongoing Mantic Restic Stumbles, that companies would be a bit...smarter when throwing out claims.
We'll see soon enough here though!
I wonder why it's considered the "sedition wars debacle" all the while Mantic is given a pass ("stumbles") after their repeated inability to produce a decent miniature.
Expectation differences maybe? We all expect Mantics stuff to be middling?
Aside from Orlando's post, which explains the McVey situation very well... Mantic given a pass? gak, that's not what I see (or do!) Mantic stumbles around like a blind drunk in a dark windowless room at 3am while still managing to constantly ask for money from passersby. They're rather lucky that Alessio came up with a very nice ruleset in KoW. Which gives me somewhere to use my (mostly GW) fantasy figures.
Azazelx wrote: [qu
Aside from Orlando's post, which explains the McVey situation very well... Mantic given a pass? gak, that's not what I see (or do!) Mantic stumbles around like a blind drunk in a dark windowless room at 3am while still managing to constantly ask for money from passersby. They're rather lucky that Alessio came up with a very nice ruleset in KoW. Which gives me somewhere to use my (mostly GW) fantasy figures.
I'll be honest; I gave Deadzone a chance. The minis just...just looked like garbage. I think they still owe me stuff in wave 2, and I quite frankly don't even care.
And now, they've got this Dreadball Xtreme KS going on, and the thing is already nearing $150k. I mean WTF? I feel like I'm missing something.
Anyhoo, back OT. I think the quality of plastic used in the newest Descent miniatures and in Zombicide is PLENTY good for a board game. The minis are quite detailed and super paintable (and I actuall think they're better than Mantics stuff). Thats really all I'm looking for from the minis for this KS, and if they're of better quality than that, well then it'll just be icing on the cake!
Oh hello there! Yes, Az bears a lot of the blame for unleashing me on the mini painting community.
I also painted up a Sedition Wars Vanguard recently in my 'game plastic' painting binge. They're pretty good for detail but hell to clean up. The Zombicide models cleaned up a bit better/cleaner. The miscasting on the Zombicide stuff was more pronounced, though. Wanda's face was jacked (also her shotgun), Josh's eye, Ned's shotgun. But they're fun to paint and have good character to the sculpts.
I'm hoping to find time to do a couple Dreadball models to help me decide if I want to get any more Mantic plastic.
I stumbled into this thread wandering about dreaming of how great Shadows of Brimstone is gonna be, but I just gotta echo others' sentiments over Mantic.
I like what Mantic has done for the hobby, and KoW and Deadzone are very fun games, but boy, their models can be rough.
I just painted up the metal goblins from their KoW hero pack (goblin hero, magician and banner bearer). All three figures are kind of in profile and all three of their faces just melt into nothing on the side facing their shoulders. There's huge weird missing bits, and odd tags sticking out here and there that don't appear to be from vents or anything. Some of the crummiest metals I've ever painted (but the figures are still amusing and not too expensive - so maybe they do get a pass?) And the art direction for the plague minis from Deadzone.... Horrible. I've already kit bashed a completely new Plague faction compliments of extra Studio McVey Sedition Wars minis, GW chaos creatures, and a wee bit here and there from Mantic.
But Shadows of Brimstone... Can't wait. And likely won't even paint it (never painted Zombicide, and love it that way)
Yeah, I think this is going to be really fun. I'd like to start hearing about game mechanics, or even some DL sample rules. It would be great to hear from anyone that gets to play in demos from FFP.
Mar 1 2014
Slashers, and Hungry Dead, and Custom Dice! Oh My!
19 comments
34 likes
Hello Brimstone Folks!
This update we have more new art and models to show off, plus a sneak preview of the custom dice! First, let me say that the number one question that we get is about the Pledge Manager. Some people are worried that they missed it, others are worried that it hasn't gone out yet. Please know that we are working on it and it is taking a while because it has an enormous amount of items and pictures and we want it to be great. We are also working on a couple of surprises in the pledge manager and I think that when it does launch, people will like it. We will let you know in an update when we are close. Now, on to the cool art and minis!
Miniatures
A number of people have pointed out that we have been showcasing a lot of the expanded miniatures (from Stretch Goals and Optional Add-Ons) and wanted to see more of the figures from the core box sets. We are listening! So, this update, we're taking a look at the Hungry Dead and the Slashers from the 'Shadows of Brimstone: Swamps of Death' core set.
New Illustrations
Lots of new illustrations are in the works. Let's take a look at a new illustration for the card "Cave-In!" from Polish illustrator, Morano.
Of course, we have more Item Illustrations from Flying Frog's own Brian Snoddy...
Custom Dice
We love dice! And from the feedback we've gotten from you guys, you feel much the same way. So, we are very excited to tell you that we've just gotten the custom dice samples and have begun photographing them for the Pledge Manager. These custom dice sets are Optional Add-Ons and will be available in the Pledge Manager. Let's take a look at a few of the designs...
Well, that's it for now. We'll have more updates and info in a few weeks!
Thanks,
Scott
I admit that I hope this:
We are also working on a couple of surprises in the pledge manager and I think that when it does launch, people will like it.
means that my more expensive Minecart makes the cheaper Minecart backers jealous!
I hope that it means that too. However, I think it will just be additional add ons you can buy, that weren't offered or were stretch goals we didn't get to.
I like the sound of it, just have to wait to see what it is. I'm looking forward to the pledge manager, and hope I don't have to add to much money, though I want a decent amount of add ons.
The pictures and the figures look really good! Can't wait to play this, really looking forward to someone getting to demo it and giving us a write-up on the game play. The art continues to look really good.
I like the color and tentacle on the enemy dice, a definite must for me. Looking forward to seeing the rest of the dice when the pledge manager goes up!
I hadn't realized what those Slashers were exactly during the campaign.
Interesting that they're kinda buglike. I guess they belong in the swamps after all. Considering we don't get too many of them, I'm wondering if they're a bit larger. No mention of base sizes.
Glad that the hungry dead look suitably genre appropriate. I guess you could take that miner one and a living prospector and use them in Zombicide. Hell, with a minecart you could probably swap out a good chunk of walkers and have an old west z-cide.
Unlocking a ton of stretch goals shouldn't have any impact on the base games going out in wave one. Far as I know, those remain unchanged from the day they launched.
The absolutely gigantic pile of stretch goals, add ons and extra that will be coming in Wave 2, however, might take a while.
Maybe I'm just naively optimistic, but unlike Wyrd and Palladium and some of the other super late KS campaigns, FFP has actually delivered games before, and hit their target of a Gencon launch, if I'm not mistaken.
Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't put money on it. It's entirely possible that a boat will get held up in customs for an obnoxious period of time, or a factory will grind to a halt for whatever reason, and they might lose out on precious time for reasons beyond their control. But for now, I remain optimistic that we'll at least see those base boxes in August/September'ish (assuming they mail in August and some of us International folks might have to wait a few weeks for USPS to get them out to the frozen wasteland we call home).
Nope. Box 1, Box 2, and whatever extras they can pull together by August will be in Wave 1. Wave 2 will ship with the remainder at an unspecified date afterwards.
@Marvin L Thomas – “Do you know yet when this will all be shipped out? Two Shipments? Still August?”
We won’t know for sure until we start going through manufacturing itself which is still months off, but we will do everything in our power to have at least the Core Sets in time for August (and as much other stuff as we can get done in that time as well). Everything else will start rolling in after that and will likely go out in a second wave after August. It is possible there may end up being a third wave based on all of the stuff that has been added in the last week or so, but hopefully we won’t need to do that.
USPS flat rate boxes by the truckload, presumably.
Though considering the size of the base boxes, and the raw number of extras for outlaws and Mine Cart backers, even that'll still be a massive chunk of cash.
Edit: they *really* don't want to do 3 waves of shipping. I'd be shocked if they didn't just wait until everything was done to fire off the second wave. Even if the third round just went out to Mine Cart backers, it'd still be a gak kicking to their funding.
Alpharius wrote: I hope they factored in all that extra shipping...
With that in mind, I hope they have the option for us to pick up at GenCon.
I really hate the idea that shipping could decimate some of the profit margins for these things, so I'm more than willing to pick my stuff up when able to save them just a little bit of cost.
It's part of the reason I've considered driving to indy to pick up Myth.
The wave shipping is great for us, terrible for them. I'll be totally glad to get the base games in August, but I'd rather they wait for everything to ship the 2nd wave.
Well, they did say they were aiming for more tabletop quality figures with this game.
I guess they weren't kidding.
Some of the connection points look a little lame (tentacle face in particular), but I guess that isn't anything a bit of green stuff wouldn't clear up, especially if you plan on painting these guys.
With the show almost done I expect we'll be seeing an update soon, and then pledge manager.
The last update made it sound like we might be seeing some new stuff showing up as well (the surprises that FFP mentioned they had in store).
Definitely regret, a lot of these miniatures are perfect for what I want in Malifaux, and I missed out unfortunately. I'll just have to pick up some at retail is all.
I'm not too impressed by the sculpts on the monsters. Given that I'd be using them for other things, I'm not regretting anything yet unless more amazing monsters are coming.
Wow, I am pretty excited about getting this in August (I hope!!). I think the family and I are going to have a great time pushing all those minis around. Then decide whether we're going to take over the town or rob it blind...
Yeah, gotta say that with all the delays and shenanigans in non-dwarven forge KS's, it's nice to see one that shows up at GAMA with a pile of stuff done and ready to show off.
If this quality translates into 'production miniatures', I'm going to be very, very happy with this one - and that's even with a 'later stage Mincart'!
As in, you want to pass on the project, or you're okay with buying extra stuff for people to ship their way?
Also, in progress news, apparently they've spoken to the Wanted level folks who will be made into characters in the rules/fluff booklets, but I'm surprised they haven't reached out to us Mapmakers yet.
Between Robotech and Relic Knights and a few other big names, I'm more accustomed to people getting frustrated and throwing up their hands and pledges.
Hopefully we get a few more pics and some news, and then to top it off the pledge manager opens in the near future. Really ride the tide of publicity and positivity such things can generate.
Happy as I am to see boxes and minis (even if they're just mockups and prototypes), we are less than 5 months from Gencon (144 days, according to the GC site). They really need to get moving on that if we're to believe they're going to make it.
Well if you could ask for me Cincy, I would be more than appreciative. Otherwise I'd have to step back from the Outlaw level and go for just a lower level of miniatures.
Nope, no pledge manager yet. It's a point of contention with some of the backers now, especially with them theoretically delivering in 5 months.
They said wave one would be the core boxes and whatever else they could arrange in time, so putting it off until the point of no return and they know exactly what they can note as being available for wave one makes sense to me, but with the campaign ending 4 months ago, it's also becoming a bit of a running gag, given that they told us it'd be "soon" those 4 months ago.
Another update, and a blurb about the Pledge Manager!
Update #35
Mar 25 2014
GAMA Trade Show! The Creatures of Brimstone! International Tabletop Day!
17 comments
39 likes
Hello Brimstone Gang!
I am pleased to report that we survived Las Vegas and the 2014 GAMA Trade Show! This was the first time that we showed off any of the minis, cards, boards, etc to anyone outside of our Kickstarter group here. The response was overwhelmingly positive and every distributor and retailer that saw the game is looking forward to carrying it this Fall! That's really what the GAMA Trade Show is all about - showing your upcoming releases for the year and getting distributors and retail stores interested in stocking the products.
We had very limited internet access and were unable to do much in the way of updates while in Las Vegas, but posted a few pics of minis from the Flying Frog booth display case on our facebook page. We made a few short videos of Jason (Designer of Shadows of Brimstone) talking about different aspects of the game as well. We'll post them in Twitter and Facebook tomorrow but wanted our backers to see them first in this update:
You've seen a lot of Brian Snoddy's beautiful artwork for Items over the last several updates. But, we've turned his attention to illustrations of the creatures from the game. These are used in the Threat Deck cards and also the Creature Stat Cards. Take a look:
Paint Sets
While at the GAMA Trade Show, we met with Jonas from The Army Painter, who will be making the Shadows of Brimstone Paint Sets. It was great to meet him in person (he made the trip from Denmark!) and we were able to review all of the custom paint colors and hand pick brushes for the sets. It was exciting and we are very happy to be allying ourselves with such venerable partners who share our high standards for quality products.
International Tabletop Day
We are very busy right now with production and manufacturing, but will be taking a break to celebrate International Tabletop Day! As we revealed in a previous update, we will be at Card Kingdom in Seattle, WA from 2:30-7:30PM on Saturday, April 5th. This will be the worldwide debut of Shadows of Brimstone to the public and the first chance for anyone to play the game. We know that a lot of you are coming to the event and we can't wait to show off the game and meet our backers in person!
Pledge Manager
For those that are wondering about the Pledge Manager, we have NOT yet launched it. We are still working on it. It would be an easy task if we just threw something out there, but we are hoping to have some new items and surprises and we are working with the developers to add some new functionality as well. Rest assured, we will let you know when the Pledge Manager launches.
Once again, thank you all for the support. We still have a long way to go and it's great having you along for the ride!
Thanks,
Scott
That bit about "hoping to have some new items and surprises" is interesting!
Might make my pricier "Mine Cart" a bit nicer in the end!
I doubt they'll add stuff free, probably some new paid add ons, which would at least give you more options to spend your credit on.
Buddy and I snagged a Mapmaker Mine Cart (no credit) and a Mapmaker to hook a pair of friends up as christmas and birthday gifts (with the game and the naming rights, the second set of games and extras will be sold off).
But yeah, we're in for some extras as well. Dice, maybe some terrain, probably some dark stone, etc.
I certainly didn't think they were suddenly going to be adding in free stuff via a pledge manager...
I was referencing my "Pricier Mine Cart" because I have more 'credit ' to spend than a 'no credit Mine Cart', so maybe my "Pricier Mine Cart" just became something that is 'worth' having?
Maybe!
Also, not sure if we've already seen these, or I've in fact already posted them, but they sure look nice:
I am hoping that they'll mold one step above Zombicide style boardgame material, maybe closer to TT miniatures plastic. Having them all come with bases would be nice too, but I think that is a long shot. Really can't wait to have this in hand, and looking forward to actually getting the pledge manager. I get what they're saying about making it a good one, but seriously, are they making it a catalog?
From what little I could see (focus!) from the videos, and the pics above, these are shaping up to be quite nice miniatures. Too bad the scale is much too large for me to consider using them alongside other ranges that do Wild West and Weird Wild West.
I imagine some of the monsters will work for anything from 20mm up to 35mm, though, so that's nice.
In their video from GAMA, FFP said they're going to make all the figures in hard plastic, so I am pretty pumped. Means less board gamey, more TT gamey. I'm hoping I can buy a second Be'lial or whatever for other purposes now.
As much as the way they did Mine Cart bothered me, this project is looking dangerously like it's going to be the most competent KS I've backed to date.
Autoduelist wrote:I had a chance to check out Shadows of Brimstone and here's my report. I'd like to offer my apologies if I'm stealing other users' thunder. I was suffering from an allergy attack which gave me a runny nose requiring a circuit to the men's room every 8 - 10 minutes to blow my nose and wash my hands. This meant I got to play a single turn of SOB. On the plus side, tagging out meant I got to cycle a few other players through the game using my character and subsequent rule explanations meant I got more of the gameplay down.
The game was in an alpha state. The figures were 3-D sculpts and the tiles were print-outs cut with an Exacto knife so take any photos you see from this session as representative but not final versions of things. The figures are pretty detailed. Flying Frog is going for a Games Workshop level of quality. They're still in communication with the factories in China so they don't know yet whether sprues and assembly will be required.
Characters have several skill categories used in checks: Strength, Agility, Luck, Lore, cunning, Spirit. They also have Wounds and Sanity with a corresponding Defense score. When a character takes Wounds or Sanity damage they roll against the score to see if the damage is avoided with one die roll for each point of damage. For example, a character with a Defense of 5 takes 3 wounds. They roll a 5, 4, and 2 and therefore take 2 wounds. At the end of combat characters may catch their breath to heal 1D3 wounds, sanity loss, or take a grit token if they didn't end the combat (I think that's how the Grit part works but I'm not sure). Another way to heal is to use bandages for wounds (1D6) and whiskey for Sanity (1D6) recovery. You can use them anytime except when you're applying damage; so no using them right before apply the results of a monster's attack roll because it would result in a knock out. Speaking of knock-outs I didn't see that effect come into play.
Characters and monsters have an Initiative score that determines activation. A higher number is better. It doesn't require a dice roll and is just a straight up number comparison. My Indian Scout had an Activation of 5 and got to move and attack before all the other heroes in my game and most of the monsters. The Hellbats had an activation of 6 and got to move and attack before my Scout did.
Characters have a Maximum Grit score and Melee and Ranged attack values. Grit tokens can be used for additional movement, dice re-rolls, and some ability activations. The Melee and Ranged values are "roll this number or higher" to hit a target. Most weapons do 1D6 of damage. The monster's Defense value is subtracted from the damage roll to determine the number of wounds. For example, a monster with a defense of 3 takes 2 wounds on a damage roll of 5 and no wounds on a roll of 3. A critical hit of 6, which from what I could tell only heroes get, ignores the monsters defense when calculating wounds. One of the critical things to remember about combat is you roll your hits without declaring targets then you get to assign the damage to whatever is in range one hit at a time.
Game tiles are divided up into spaces. A figure completely occupies a space and cannot be moved through. Characters next to a monster must make an escape roll to move away from the monster. There is no penalty for failing except that you can't move away. You can shoot through other figures and anything in line of sight (not blocked by a wall) is fair game. New tiles are revealed by going to the edge of the tile. A room tile card is drawn which provides a random roll for which part is sealed off with an end cap and which part continues the dungeon. I think it also provides instructions for whether an encounter token is added to the tile. When a character moves into the space the encounter token is flipped over indicating how many encounter cards are drawn. Usually this is one card which results in the placement of monsters but it could be an event requiring a skill check or environmental conditions that damages players. The general rule for placing monsters is at the the back left corner of the tile alternating blank and filled spaces in a checker board pattern eg - Monster 1 in back left corner, next space is empty, Monster 2 in the following space, etc. An ambush places the monsters next to the player characters. Each monster has its own rules for movement and attack. Most of the ones I saw tried to evenly divide themselves up among heroes moving past nearby heroes if another hero was in movement range and not currently engaged.
When a tile is cleared of monsters it may be salvaged once to see if any gear or loot is found. Players also received loot cards when defeating all the monsters on a tile. One game effect that was discussed but didn't come into play is corruption. Carrying dark stone causes a character to acquire corruption points and 5 points of corruption results in a mutation. Most of the time mutations are bad but occasionally a beneficial one comes up.
At the start of the game turn heroes roll 2D6 against the darkness track. It's divided up into three zones of +7, +8 and +9 with each zone requiring that result or higher to avoid moving the darkness track; so it gets harder as the game progresses. Certain milestones on the Darkness track require card draws but I'm unclear how that works based on the symbols I saw. A roll of doubles requires consulting a chart for positive or negative effects. I only saw double 6's come into play which improves the heroes resolve and grants a Grit token.
Players roll a die on their turn to move that many spaces. A roll of 1 grants a Grit token which may be spent immediately to roll another D6 of movement. And that's about all I know. Roll on the Darkness track, Use Initiative to move and attack, clear the tile of monsters, and move on to expose other tiles.
I'd like to thank Scott Hill for taking the time to chat with me. It was also great fun getting to meet Lord Dudley and Sharon from Fortune and Glory. Card Kingdom carries a large variety of Boardgames, Miniature figures (Warhammer, Warmachine, HeroClix), Paints from Army Painter and Citadel, and a lot of the popular RPGs. They have puzzles and traditional family games and an attached restaurant bar with gaming tables for people to play games. It's worth checking out if you're in the Ballard neighborhood of Seattle.
Sounds fun so far. Something seems off about the description of character defense; if a character has a Def of 5 and takes 3 hits, you need to roll 5+ to avoid them? So you want as low a Defense as possible? Perhaps it was something misconstrued or lost in the description, it just feels backwards from what a lot of FFP's mechanics are generally like. Maybe it'll grow on me.
Sounds fun so far. Something seems off about the description of character defense; if a character has a Def of 5 and takes 3 hits, you need to roll 5+ to avoid them? So you want as low a Defense as possible? Perhaps it was something misconstrued or lost in the description, it just feels backwards from what a lot of FFP's mechanics are generally like. Maybe it'll grow on me.
My brother and I were wondering what was up with that guy. He played one round and then ducked out.
Most combat stats are listed as the target number you have to beat. So for instance, the Rancher I played had Ranged 4+, Melee 5+, Defense 4+, Willpower 4+. My brother's Preacher was Ranged 5+, Melee 4+, Defense 5+, Willpower 3+. There is also a Combat score which is the base number of dice you roll when making a Melee attack. Most ranged weapons were 3 attacks, roll d6 for damage, but the Rancher's hunting rifle was 1 attack, roll d6+2 to damage, and the Shotgun used by a character at the other table was 1 attack, roll d8 to hit and d8 to damage. Personally I think they should rename monster defense to something like Armor or Toughness because it works entirely differently than hero defense.
Ability scores are listed at the top of the hero profile and came into play during special events. The event would list a target number and the skill used. For instance, we drew a card saying the room was filled with strange totem poles and one player should make a Lore check of 5+. A player would roll as many dice as their Lore and if at least one of them was a 5 or 6 the success effect would happen.
Blessings(Spells) involved the Preacher spending Faith tokens to cast the spell and rolling 2d6. If the roll was equal to or greater than the number on the spell card the spell went off. If the 2d6 roll was doubles, the Preacher had to roll that number in dice against his Willpower for Corruption. (So for instance, if you rolled boxcars you'd have to roll 6 dice against a Willpower of 3+, and any that came up a 1 or 2 would be a point of corruption.)
What he calls Salvage was actually Scavenge. If there was no ongoing combat and the player hadn't looked down the hallway this turn, they could Scavenge the tile. Roll 3d6, flip over a Scavenge card for each 6. Once a tile had been successfully Scavenged it couldn't be Scavenged again. People started to hate me as I'd successfully Scavenge and then draw something like an Ambush.
Darkness track has a hero marker that moves up as the heroes flip over tiles and a darkness marker that moves down as players fail their hold back the darkness roll. Certain spots have a blood splotch on them, which cause a draw from the Darkness event deck. Three spots on the track have Growing Dread. When a Growing Dread is hit, you draw it a Growing Dread card facedown and put it next to the darkness track. Once you encounter the objective room, the Growing Dread cards are flipped over and take effect. The card we drew added extra Hungry Dead monsters to the boss encounter.
We failed the mission and "ran away" from the boss encounter as the Preacher got smushed by the Harbinger, and the Rancher and Marshall fell to madness. (Harbinger required every player on the same or adjacent tile to roll to defend against 3 horror hits at the start of their activation, and a Hideous Stench darkness card with a similar effect was in play on the tile where most of the combat was taking place.) When you're knocked out or go insane, you roll 2d6 and consult the Injury or Madness chart. The Preacher rolled a broken collarbone, which reduced his max grit. The Rancher developed Paranoia, which meant she could no longer Look Down the Hallway or Scavenge. The Marshall had Hallucinations, which interfered with drawing Loot cards.
My general assessment of the game is that it was exactly what I expected when I kickstarted it. It is Warhammer Quest+Deadlands. You know how dungeon crawls come out that look like they're going to be like WHQ and then screw something up? Not here. This is the most Warhammer Quest game I've played since Warhammer Quest. Everything that was awesome about WHQ and everything that was awesome about Deadlands is present.
Miniatures quality of minis on display was good. Harbinger was freaking huge. Will probably need to get a deep tupperware container for storage purposes.
That is so awesome to hear. I can't wait to get this game in August! I hope we get an update from them soon about this weekend, and what is going on.
So, for both of you that posted about playing, how did you feel the toughness was? I'm going to be playing with the kids, and if we lose that often, they won't keep playing. So I need to be able to balance it out, give them more wins than losses.
Salacious Greed wrote: That is so awesome to hear. I can't wait to get this game in August! I hope we get an update from them soon about this weekend, and what is going on.
So, for both of you that posted about playing, how did you feel the toughness was? I'm going to be playing with the kids, and if we lose that often, they won't keep playing. So I need to be able to balance it out, give them more wins than losses.
The final battle was pretty tough, but I get the feeling that was primarily because the game was shortened(only had to find two exploration markers with clues to find the objective room). If we'd had a few more encounters to grab gear/artifacts it would probably have gone better.
A lot of it came down to bad luck on our part and not knowing which items to take. If the Rancher and the Marshall had Whiskey, they wouldn't have gone insane. If the Harbinger had attacked anyone other than the Preacher, they would have survived. If the Preacher's Cleansing fire spell had been successfully rolled on the previous turn, the Harbinger would probably have taken about 10 damage, leaving a good chance for the Scout to finish him off (I think. Would have to find out how Hellfire affects large based creatures.)
As far as adjusting difficulty, you could play with four players and draw encounters from the two player deck. Or possibly start the campaign with an extra level of skills.
Thanks, I appreciate the info. Really looking forward to this game. While I am stoked about the GW quality sculpts and plastic, hope they are mostly 1 or 2 piece models. Really want to get into playing this quickly when it shows up.
Did they happen to say anything about the pledge manager? I'd really like to lock in what I'm wanting.
My general assessment of the game is that it was exactly what I expected when I kickstarted it. It is Warhammer Quest+Deadlands. You know how dungeon crawls come out that look like they're going to be like WHQ and then screw something up? Not here. This is the most Warhammer Quest game I've played since Warhammer Quest. Everything that was awesome about WHQ and everything that was awesome about Deadlands is present.
Miniatures quality of minis on display was good. Harbinger was freaking huge. Will probably need to get a deep tupperware container for storage purposes.
This is all good news. I've gotten so deadened to my Kickstarters being filled with disappointment, so I'm actually now glad I backed this, despite all of the Mine Cart unpleasantness. At least FFG (hmm.. interesting shared acronym there) has a track record of turning out good games. Thanks very much for sharing your thoughts.
Az, It's FFP, not FFG. But I agree, this one looks to be the KS Gold Standard at this point. If they hit the base box games in August, they win the KS lottery. Also hoping that they have some more content by the end of 15 too.
Everything looks good, and this does look to be a KS that does most things 'right', but I'll still be (pleasantly) surprised in they hit that August ship date...
Alpharius wrote: Everything looks good, and this does look to be a KS that does most things 'right', but I'll still be (pleasantly) surprised in they hit that August ship date...
Honestly, from what was on display, I'd say October is a fairer assessment.
Miniatures for base set available.
Several of the stretch goal miniatures on display.
Rulebook not available for display.
Card art for darkness, scavenge, location, and growing dread cards done.
Art design for some tokens (Exploration, corpse pile) finished, not ready for Grit/Poison/Spell conditions. Health and Sanity tokens at demo were reused from Touch of Evil, don't know if they're getting a redesign for SoB.
Card art for threat cards either not finished or placeholder. Most threat cards were a monster picture, and a simple name/number combo. No art "scene" or borders/formatting on the card.
Card art for items about 75% done. Formatting of item cards needs a little more work. (The upgrade icons are barely visible on the card.)
Monster stat cards were currently simple printouts with the monster's picture.
Peril die being prototyped.
Bear in mind that there was probably card art that's been turned in by the artist but they hadn't formatted/printed to include on their prototype yet.
So assume about two months for item art to get finished and cards to get formatted, then another month or so getting things prepped with the manufacturer. Will probably wind up with the base sets shipping and a few of the miniature based stretch goals shipping end of September, other stretch goals shipping in December.
Hmm, even slipping to a shipping date of September won't vex me with this one. While I wish they'd lavish a few more updates on us, other than hovering between 2 and 3 weeks each update, they consistently deliver with content. I am hoping to see the Pledge Manager soon, and hear from the Map Maker backers that they've given names and talked location and getting that rulebook stuff sewn up for a production run.
Also, of more interesting note, on their FB page, it was said that the character models and the Night Terror was actual production plastic, not resins or masters. So color me pretty damn impressed. Now to get the question answered whether they'll come with "miniature" bases or be molded onto boardgame bases like Zombicide. I really hope for the miniature bases. So many great figures if the digital sculpting turns out as good as the artwork, and from what they had on display at GAMA, I'm really looking forward to getting all of the Mine Cart stuff, plus buying a few extra large models! I'm hoping that we'll be able to buy some extra of the stretch goal freebies too...I really like the Lava Men and the Harvestors.
I had asked FFP about buying extras of the SGs, such as Beli'al, the mule, the dog companion and others. They said that they'll be available as extra add-ons. So that is pretty great news. This keeps getting better and better. Probably going to be played a lot in my household this fall.
Not that it's going to affect many other people (there are only 20 of us, and I know 2 of 'em), but according to an email response FFP sent me, they should be reaching out to "Mapmaker" tier backers soon. Well, "soon", I suppose, but it'll be nice to get that sorted out.
Creator Flying Frog Productions about 21 hours ago wrote:
Hey Guys,
Right now we are working around the clock to try and meet all of the deadlines needed to get the Core Sets ready for August! Unfortunately this doesn't leave a lot of time for having a serious presence on the KS page itself. We are still trying to get frequent Updates posted (about once every 2-3 weeks) where we can, but right now our main focus is on getting the actual game finished, polished, and out the door so that all of you can have it that much sooner!
We understand that you guys are excited about the game and just want to be kept in the loop, and we are doing everything we can to keep those updates coming without sacrificing needed time to work on the game itself. We should have another update going live later this week with more info and cool stuff to see!
That is nice, but seriously, it doesn't take all that much to write a 30 minute update every week. I'm all for getting it done and out the door, but 3+ weeks of silence is a bit onerous...
And those with bad communication that deliver on time.
"What about campaigns with good communication that deliver on time?" These are figments of the imaginations of a demented soul, wallowing in unreality. Which is to say, I've yet to see one.
I mean, I do agree, popping in twice a month to drop a few "Work in Progress" pics and a little fluff really shouldn't be all that demanding, but if they get us the boxes in August, I really won't have much room to complain. Hell, even a minor delay (like, shipped in August, gets to my door in September, etc) I wouldn't have much room to bitch about.
Still baffled that the pledge manager remains a running gag, however. Like I've said in the past, the belief that they might deliver in August is predicated on them having collected and compiled at least some information from the backers ahead of time. I assume there's still time before they're at the Point Of No Return for production, but really, if they want to leave the PM open for at least a couple of weeks, that really should be in the near future to give people time to check in. 4 months out, I imagine they're going to need to know some answers from us in the next few weeks or months at most.
Also, the Mapmakers still haven't been contacted. I guess the naming stuff can be put off, but similarly; for how long?
But all in all, minor gripes/concerns compared to some projects. (Wyrd and Palladium, I'm looking at you)
Granted there was very little in SoB that was exclusive so if FFP had very deep pockets they could be planning to place an order for "5000 of everything, please!" on the basis that anything they have left over can make up the 1st wave of retail shipping. Somehow, I doubt it.
Heck, I can't figure out why they didn't copy Arena Rex and at least send out a pre-pledge manager survey to at least get an idea of what they would need. Instead it feels like they have gone the Iello route (urgh, don't talk to me about Guardian Chronicles) where they have entrusted it all to the magical manufacturing fairy who totally promised them it would take a week, two weeks tops, honest guv.
That's a good point. If they do limit Wave One to just retail boxes, it doesn't really matter what we say, they can certainly do that.
They keep leaning on wanting to spring surprises on us, but if that's just for wave two they should probably drop the pretense and use the one KS survey they're allowed to send to get our initial shipping info, and more importantly, tell us that'll be the case.
Forar wrote: That's a good point. If they do limit Wave One to just retail boxes, it doesn't really matter what we say, they can certainly do that.
They keep leaning on wanting to spring surprises on us, but if that's just for wave two they should probably drop the pretense and use the one KS survey they're allowed to send to get our initial shipping info, and more importantly, tell us that'll be the case.
I agree with you on the pledge manager. Not wholly needed for wave one. However, the lead time for printing of the rulebook and other things, such as maps, makes me scratch my head. Usually a bigtime print run has things finalized 2-3 months out, which is 2 weeks away if they want to have that stuff in hand, boxed up and able to be shipped in early august. Seems they are really pushing the envelope in not getting all the naming rights stuff sorted out already...
Though I don't think there's any mention of a Pledge Manager or confirmation of a ship date...
Update #36
Apr 21 2014
Final Cover of City of the Ancients! Shadows of Brimstone Frog! Trederran Raiders! New Hero Minis! International Tabletop Day 2014!
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Hello Brimstone Fans!
Lots of news and fancy art to show off, so let's just jump right in...
Final Art for the Box Cover of Shadows of Brimstone: City of the Ancients
While we've had some nice cover art for the game box mock-ups, the actual covers needed to be epic! We wanted an image that represents all of the mystery, danger, and adventure that awaits players of the game. After dazzling us with so many amazing illustrations for the game books and cards, we chose UK Illustrator Ralph Horsley to paint the box covers for the two core sets. This is a massive undertaking and he's been working on them for quite some time now. We are happy to say that he's just finished the first of the two covers. This one is for Shadows of Brimstone: City of the Ancients!
Here's how it should look on the box...
New Frog in Town
Since we first revealed Shadows of Brimstone last October, we've received quite a few emails and messages asking about the new Frog character for the game. For fans of Flying Frog's games, it's always fun to see our Flying Frog character come to life in new looks for each game. Shadows of Brimstone is no exception and we needed a great Old West look this time around! We are pleased to reveal him for the first time...
Trederran Raiders
We're very excited to show off our latest enemy sculpts. The Trederran Raiders are some of the coolest looking figures we've done so far and their back story is even cooler. Here's more information from Designer Jason C. Hill about these new enemies for the game:
Trederran Raiders are assault troops that venture through gateways to steal Dark Stone from Otherworlds and bring it back to fuel their city state's massive weapons of war! Equipped for close assault in cramped quarters, these strike teams excel in environments like the mines on Earth or the dense jungles in the Swamps of Jargono.
Forgoing the heavier Dark Stone Carbines used by Trederran Legionnaires, Raiders are equipped with Dark Stone Pistols and Sabres, making them deadly at close quarters. Like all Trederrans, Raiders have become so coated in Dark Stone dust and residue that they exude a radioactive aura of Dark Stone corruption to any that stray too close. Their weapons are also powered by Dark Stone, making them formidable enemies to encounter on your adventures!
New Hero Minis
We just got in pictures of some beautiful new sculpts for the alternate gender versions of some of the Heroes. The Male Rancher looks tough with a rifle, rope, and saddle bag thrown over his shoulder! The Male Dark Stone Shaman is so detailed with a huge head dress with bison horns and a Dark Stone Staff!
International Tabletop Day in Seattle
We went out to Card Kingdom in Seattle, Washington to help celebrate International Tabletop Day 2014. This was the first chance for the general public to play Shadows of Brimstone and it was a blast! Here are some pictures from the event...
Designer, Jason C. Hill shows the game to excited fans.
A group of adventurers are placed on the starting map tile, ready to enter the mines!
At another table, Flying Frog Demo Masters Amy and Joel show off the Swamps of Death Core Set.
After journeying through a portal to the Swamps of Jargono, this group of heroes come face-to-face with the Harbinger and a horde of Hellbats!
It was a great day of gaming and we were able to meet with many Kickstarter backers and personally thank them for their support. We appreciate the enthusiasm and support of all of our backers and cannot wait to get the game into your hands!
That's it for now. Happy Trails!
Thanks,
Scott
This is looking more and more like the Weird Wild West successor to Warhammer Quest, only updated - and that is a good thing!
Nice to see an update, and at least when they go out they're usually pretty beefy, but man, of all the things people have been wondering, 'what the SoB frog will look like' can't have been remotely near the top of the list.
Yeah, between this update and Jason's response on the KS comments page, things look pretty good. Though I'm not a huge fan of the new cover art.
But it is still a bit odd that no firm date for either the Pledge Manager or for when they're going to get names to incorporate into maps and the game books. Guess they are going to have a really fast print cycle for their books to be packaged into the game boxes in China.
Salacious Greed wrote:New Update: No pledge manager.
The box art for the Swamps looks awesome though!
See above...
Slackers!
Update #37
May 26 2014
Swamps of Death Cover! New Minis! Game Card Preview! Soundtrack Completed! Pro-Painted Minis!
53 comments
77 likes
Happy Memorial Day!
We are tempted by sunshine and the aroma of grilled hot dogs and hamburgers, but we are continuing to work around the clock to get everything finished for the Shadows of Brimstone Core Sets. But, in the spirit of a holiday, we're taking a small break to write an update and show you guys some of the stuff we're working on.
Swamps of Death Box Cover!
UK Artist, Ralph Horsley, has completed the final box cover of the second core set, Swamps of Death! This one is just beautiful and features the stalwart heroes included in the box in some "deep water" - surrounded by Hungry Dead, Slashers, Tentacles, HellBats, and the Harbinger!
Unleash the Sand Kraken!
All of the core set miniatures are already in China, having the molds tooled. Meanwhile, we continue to create sculpts of the expansion miniatures. One of my absolute favorites is the giant Sand Kraken!
Here is an amazing new illustration from New Zealand artist, Ben Wooten, of the Sand Kraken attacking a group of Old west Heroes.
Undead Outlaw
Another very cool miniature that was recently sculpted is the Undead Outlaw!
Soundtrack is Complete
We are very excited to let you know that the Shadows of Brimstone Soundtrack was completed last week. It took months of recording and features lots of Old West style instruments including mandolin, harmonica, steel guitar, mouth harp, and violin! The result is one of the best soundtracks we've ever done and we can't wait for you guys to hear it! Mary Beth has really outdone herself with this project.
Game Card Sneak Preview
Now that the layouts and artwork are being finalized, we can start to share some of the cards with you. For this first preview, let's take a look at some of the item cards of Shadows of Brimstone. Each Hero begins the game with Starting Gear, specific to their Hero Class. They also get to draw one Personal Item that helps tell their story - it is something of meaning to that character and they can never sell it.
In the game, you can find Gear or Artifacts. When you find an Artifact, you draw it from the Artifact deck specific to the world you are in at the time (the Mines, Swamps of Jargono, or the Targa Plateau).
I know this is a lot to digest, but it's been a while wince we were last able to post an update. So, this one is mega-sized!
Professionally Painted Figures
We are excited to let you know that we are working with professional miniature painter, Aaron Lovejoy, to get miniatures from the game painted to show in the game books. We are even more excited to say that Aaron will join us at the Flying Frog Booth at Gen Con this year. He will be answering questions and showing his painting techniques while painting actual expansion figures for Shadows of Brimstone!
Well, that's it for now. We need to get back to work. Enjoy a hot dog for us!
Notice that The Judge uses the same rules as the Shotgun (d8 to hit) and the artwork shows a LeMat revolver (Which had a 20 ga shotgun barrel underneath the regular barrel.)
I'm interested to know where production is for FFP. At this point, if full production started today, for them to print both bases games plus retail copies, that would take until the end of the month to have it on a boat. Then a month on the ocean, and a few days to a week in US customs. That would give them a week to 10 days to receive, sort, and pack shipments.
Now, they've said that they are going to allow pick-ups at Gencon for backers, which is great. I have no issues with people getting their copy there. However, they've said they are also going to sell copies at Gencon. They've never stated that backers would get it first, so there's no internet rage about that from me. In the comments, there have been a lot from both sides of the fence on this issue coming out of the woodwork, but I find myself disagreeing with both sides. On the disgruntled side, they feel owed the game first, and better get it before Gencon if they're going to sell it there. Then, the other side is glad to let them sell it, as we're getting so much extra stuff with the SGs that it makes up for other people getting it before them.
I merely feel it comes down to respect. I didn't back the company, and while I am not hoping/wishing that they somehow fail or go bankrupt, I also didn't back them so that they'd become a wild success. I backed the making of a game, and the KS pretty much means that it gives any company that has a successful KS a much greater profit line for that product. But the respect part comes down to this: If they ship the game before selling it, then they lived up to their "implied" agreement with me. I'm fine with other people having it "in hand" before me. In my personal view, if they go and sell the game before taking the time to send it out to all the backers, then they don't respect my contribution to them. What does everyone else here feel, as this seems to be very polarizing on a variety of KS's lately.
Also, if everything for the core games is complete, I would have expected FFP to have taken a breather, and have some time to actually post something. With the lateness of the PM and still only 1 post every 28 daysish, they've tiptoed over the line into poor communication, as we've really gotten so little info about gameplay. Great cards and miniatures, etc, but little to nothing on actual gameplay, and near zero interaction with the community. Especially this close to core set delivery.
@Alpharius & Forar, great to see Forum faces in the comments section now and then!
Hm, so when is this one supposed to ship again? I honestly haven't been paying all that much attention, so it's a usual /sigh to hear that they're splitting it into wave shipments. Will they decide to pull a Myth and feth their overseas backers on that? I hope not...
Definitely feels like it's getting close to the point of no return. I'm in the same boat here- just want to get my pledge locked in, my address set, and have the waiting by the mailbox game begin.
Alpharius wrote: What is everyone goes nuts on some expansion or figure that they didn't make enough of?
Well, if they're creating enough for backers, gencon and retail all at the same time, there shouldn't be any real risk of the backer demand outstripping their ability to supply the expansions, and the figures remain contingent on them actually releasing more than just the two core boxes. If they don't, it too is a non-issue.
Believe me, I roll my eyes at the ongoing running gag of the pledge manager as well, but at this point they could probably just use the free kickstarter survey and get the info they need.
Truth be told, I guess they "REALLY" don't need to do the PM until like, a week or so before they're ready to ship. They're going to have plenty of product.
The only reason to do it early is so that you can start packing as soon as you get stuff, I guess. They're going to have plenty of product to fulfill everything.
It's splitting hairs, but they probably want to give more than a week of notice. The facility/service they're using will need to compile that info, print labels, pack the boxes, get 'em out into the world, etc. And I can only imagine there'll be issues that will take a little time resolving; people who want to upgrade (say from just one box to both), people who want to snag more boxes than just the 2 coming to most backers, time to put out invoices for those changes, get the money, and update the info to properly reflect said changes, etc, etc.
I'm sure that's just the tip of the iceberg. The particulars aren't super important themselves, just saying, they probably want to start compiling that info with some time to spare to dot the i's and cross the t's.
As was noted before, unlike some campaigns (Robotech, I'm looking at you), this one didn't actually promise to deliver before Gencon, and I agree that Gencon is simply too big to miss. If they actually have boxes going into the mail by the end of August, I'll consider it a Kickstarter Victory. If I get mine in early(ish) September, there'll be few complaints.
If people were walking out with the game in mid-August and I'm still waiting in October, however, I could see a little frustration mounting.
According to a bit of Google'ing, Fortune and Glory (their big 2012 Gencon release) had a street date in mid September, and some online shops were starting to claim stock was in hand by the end of August, so who knows? This isn't their first time at the rodeo, though admittedly there are a lot more figures/pieces in play here than with F&G, thus more QA points of failure or revision.
I had to look at the KS page to see what we even got again. I'd completely forgotten.
We get a metric gakload of stuff......
Automatically Appended Next Post: By rough estimate, the $150 pledge level nets you 75 additional minis, between 30-40 new tiles, and a whole bunch of cards.
Alpharius wrote: Waiting until the 'last minute' rarely works out though.
Well, if you wait until the last minute, it only takes a minute.
It will be very interesting to see how this turns out. I can handle them selling the game to the unwashed masses if the rest have been mailed out, or even if their shipping company is shipping them the week of Gencon. But if they aren't going to ship until well after Gencon, then they'll drop a couple notches in the respect column.
Can't get the new update to post in here. Lots of great artwork and figures and cards. This looks really good.
But I am a bit mystified that, on 18 June, they're still finalizing things in the game. Just to have copies on hand to sell at Gencon, they'll have to airlift those. But I don't see ANY chance of them having 4000+ of each core game on hand to begin mailing these at the beginning of August. There seemed to be a lot of people really excited by this post, but I'm scratching my head at their timeline. It seems they would have to have all the stars align for this game to get churned out, boxed, packed, customs'ed, loaded, cross the ocean, customs'ed again, shipped to shipping company and then shipped to backers. Before Gencon. I'll applaud them if this timeline works out. But man, that is crossing your fingers, rubbing lucky rabbits feet and waving four leaf clovers in abundance.
I'm wondering if they've actually started the process of getting materials produced and shipped to whatever packing company they use.
They've never actually said they haven't. Considering how little behind the scenes we've been privy to, they very well could be rolling along nicely getting the games ready for the summer, like they say.
Maybe I'm just a bit too KS jaded to buy that. I'm certain I wouldn't be the only one both surprised and impressed if they're able to get these games out around Gencon.
We're getting closer and closer to finalizing all components of the core box sets. It's a long complex process, but we need to be sure that everything is awesome! That's the thing about a game this big that you've been working on for so many years - you can't rush it at the end. It's too important! Plus, this is a game that will be around forever, on the shelves of gamers around the world. It's exciting to think about, but also a lot of responsibility. So, please understand that we're working hard to do it right and sometimes that means we can't work on updates or answer emails right away. And, it means that we've had to push back the Pledge Manager. This seems to be a concern to some backers, but it's a simple question of "would you rather have a Pledge Manager right now or get the Core Sets this Summer?" So, try not to lose faith, we are literally working around the clock on this.
Er, why not both?
I guess I'm just not seeing why they can't launch a pledge manager already so that they can figure out what everyone actually wants and what they'll have to make?
The tone of that one was a bit odd/strained but, whatever at this point!
We're getting closer and closer to finalizing all components of the core box sets. It's a long complex process, but we need to be sure that everything is awesome! That's the thing about a game this big that you've been working on for so many years - you can't rush it at the end. It's too important! Plus, this is a game that will be around forever, on the shelves of gamers around the world. It's exciting to think about, but also a lot of responsibility. So, please understand that we're working hard to do it right and sometimes that means we can't work on updates or answer emails right away. And, it means that we've had to push back the Pledge Manager. This seems to be a concern to some backers, but it's a simple question of "would you rather have a Pledge Manager right now or get the Core Sets this Summer?" So, try not to lose faith, we are literally working around the clock on this.
Er, why not both?
I guess I'm just not seeing why they can't launch a pledge manager already so that they can figure out what everyone actually wants and what they'll have to make?
The tone of that one was a bit odd/strained but, whatever at this point!
I agree with you. Very strange, especially as I don't for an instant believe that THEY are making the pledge manager.
@Tamburlaine, In reality, FFP really hasn't let us in on any of the timeline. They've given us pictures of contents, but not really let us in on the production. Them saying that they're "near" finalizing game content, I don't see them having a milvan of games in the US or Europe to start sending out by the beginning of August. So them saying that we either get the Pledge Manager now or the Core Games in August is very mystifying. WTF? One really has nothing to do with the other. And I would just like to see what wish-listy production timeline they think is going to magically have all these complete games in their hands the beginning of August. None of the other KSs have it being less than 6 weeks from Factory to their hands, and that is once manufacturing is complete.
If one wanted to play Devil's Advocate, and took at face value what they've said, it's possible that whomever would be in charge of getting that information punched in (pictures, descriptions, double checking details, whatever) has other tasks pressing that require attention to progress the game's actual delivery.
In a larger corporation, these two roles would be entirely different departments, let alone different people. In a crew as small as FFP? Which, at a glance, only has 7 employees? A lot of people are probably wearing a lot of different 'hats' day to day.
I'm not trying to excuse the lack of information, or say that I necessarily buy that as the case, but it also wouldn't shock me.
And as noted before, unlike some other projects, they never promised to ship before Gencon, merely that they'd hoped they could. If they air freight over a couple pallets to drive the hype machine while our boxes are on a boat, I can't see losing much sleep over the matter.
It'd be nice if they at least launched the basic manager in order to get our address information (and have it easily updatable, none of this "email/message them and hope someone jots it down" crap some campaigns use) and gets the boxes moving in August, even if it means going out in the weeks following Gencon. As noted before, given that they're (far as I know) using a packaging/distribution service, their activity and/or con-crud shouldn't be an issue, so it's really just a question of when the boxes get to said facility and how long it takes to sort and mail out 5k+ packages.
Creator Flying Frog Productions about 12 hours ago
Hey Guys,
The Core Sets are in production now and we are still on schedule to start shipping Wave 1 Core Sets in August. I should say that that doesn't mean (and has never meant) that everyone will get their copies in August, but that we will start the process of sending the games out in August. With nearly 5,000 backers, it will take a long time to get everything packed up and sent out. The plan is for the production copies of the Core Sets to arrive in staggered shipments every couple of weeks and it will take a long time and a lot of storage space just to get all of the games into our warehouse (imagine 4 or 5 40' semi-truck trailers stacked floor to ceiling with boxes of games). Realistically, we will be shipping out Wave 1 Core Sets across the months of August, September, and October to get them to backers as soon as possible. The Core Sets have come together really well and we are all super excited to be relatively on track and to get the game out to you guys as soon as we can!
-Jason
This immensely amuses me from the standpoint of them basically being rules lawyers. "We're going to start shipping in August, because that's what we said we'd do. But we won't finish shipping until sometime in October."
This is clearly not what they said. AND they're going to sell games to people who had nothing to do with the KS at Gencon.
I am not complaining about them saying they wouldn't sell it at Gencon, but even they know that they're being pretty despicable, or they wouldn't have "rules lawyered" what they'd said during the campaign. I've lost a lot of respect for these guys.
I dont know specifically what they have said but I have read "Start shipping in August" before and I was under no illusion that shipping would most likely extend into September. (Hopefully not into October though)
Are you sure you arnt reading more into the comment than what it actually says?
The "having containers delivered every couple of weeks" part is what threw me. I mean, it sounds like they're looking at 8-12+ weeks, soooo, their shipping service can only handle roughly 100 boxes a day? Or they're accounting for the weeks that will be lost sending the European container over there? Like, there are aspects that could make this a slightly more reasonable statement, but as someone on the same continent, I sincerely hope I'm not waiting until November for my boxes.
I wasn't particularly put off by the issue of them selling at Gencon, but it's a bit more of a frustration now that I know I might be waiting 3 months or more to have mine in hand.
MangoMadness wrote: I dont know specifically what they have said but I have read "Start shipping in August" before and I was under no illusion that shipping would most likely extend into September. (Hopefully not into October though)
Are you sure you arnt reading more into the comment than what it actually says?
No. They said they would SHIP in August.
Not START shipping in August, stagger all of their product over several months, and FINISH in October. As well as sell that product to random Gencon attendees 3 months before up to 1/5 of their backers will get it.
No, I don't think I'm reading more into it.
What I am reading into it is that they prioritize their backers similar to how Palladium does. Perhaps not as bad as Palladium, but time will tell us.
I have to say I'm a bit concerned with no clarification regarding the EU shipment despite a lot of people asking if and when they are shipping directly to the EU or whether they are actually sending them all to the American warehouse and them shipping to an eu distributor from there (which would add several more months to the estimated time scale or even end up being like Myth with only a single shipment for EU customers a year late).
I don't mind them selling at Gencon on the understanding that they are posting all copies out in august but it now sounds like some backers won't receive 4+ months after it goes on sale to non backers. L
They have hinted in a roundabout way that you *might* be able to pick it up. By saying that they'd sign your copy at Gencon. But no outright saying that you can.
Also, that would require them having done a Pledge Manager. So they knew what the peeps want. But, they really only need 1/5 of the address for August, as it sounds like they're shipping 5 containers.
It is nice of them to clarify how much our backing this project for them means. For those of us who might have our core games shipped in October, we're FAR less important than all those random Gencon attendees!
Personally, I'm not going to begrudge any company for bringing their product to GenCon. It'd be foolish for them not to.
I do wish companies would at least do a token "poll," as I think if they explained why they needed to bring product to GenCon the majority of their backers would say, "Go ahead!"
But yeah, a bit more for.....clarity would be nice.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, lets not forget how much free gak we're getting as backers. It's pretty absurd.
cincydooley wrote: Also, lets not forget how much free gak we're getting as backers. It's pretty absurd.
Y'know, what, I'm gonna say it; I'm kind of tired of stretch goals being used to excuse every last thing about a campaign.
Edit: and point of order; it's not "free". It was paid for in some fashion or another. We may have received a considerable savings over MSRP (and even some of the better discounted online and B&M retailers), but we paid a share for each item all the same. Their business model would've been a joke if we hadn't.
That stuff was used to draw more and more backers and money in. It's great to drive their funding higher and act as free advertising as people gush breathlessly on forums and to friends about the incredible deal we're getting. But it's not a balm that soothes every issue.
I had no delusions as to them getting nearly 5k boxes in the mail in the span of a few weeks, but I definitely didn't expect a 3 month window to be dropped (and as I'm sure many will be quick to point out, that's just an estimate! Delays happen, we should pre-emptively accept that it could be 4 or 6 or 8). Not all companies/projects are identical, but if the tiny group at Dwarven Forge can send out over 5k packages in a month, surely whomever FFP is working with can handle more than a few hundred per week.
They told us they were going to use a service to package and ship out boxes to save time, so I find it hard to believe that said service can only handle around 100 packages per day. Given enough boxes and pre-printed postage stickers I'm pretty sure *I* alone could do more than 100 per day, let alone whatever service they're using. And intentionally staggering the containers at one every couple of weeks seems like it'd reduce the overall waiting time but increase the risks of any given container getting held up and leaving them with nothing to send out for weeks at a time.
This project certainly hasn't garnered my ire like the Palladium one has, but this sort of info really needs to go into an update and give great detail/context as to what is being done.
I think I've shown considerable faith that 'no news is good news', and I'd really hate for this to prove on yet another campaign that, no, 'no news just means they don't want to give you the bad news'.
You seem really angry about this, can you give me a reference for where they said that?
I had a quick look on the KS page and the pledges give a delivery time of August 2014, if they start shipping on the same month as their estimated time I think thats FRAKKING AMAZING especially when I think to the other KS I have backed and their delivery dates (Zombicide S2, Sedition Wars, Myth, Robotech, Deadzone)
At this stage if I received my pledge in October I would still be gushing with amazement but I will reserve my enthusiasm for when I actually have it in my hands otherwise I will just get depressed as I was with Myth (and still am but I have tried to forget about it) .
They have said repeatedly that work was going well and that they still intended to ship in August.
I don't recall even a hint of this being an up to 3 month process until the comment from Jason.
Yes, many KS's are delayed for one reason or another, but "shipping out 5k packages will take up to 12 weeks" generally isn't one of them, at least in my experience, especially for one that is, far as we can tell, otherwise on track for production. I don't think anybody expected them to knock it off in a week, but intentionally spacing the containers out in a manner of weeks plus their stated timeline could have international backers lucky to have theirs in hand by the end of the year.
So it would have been better, to you, if they had said everything will be shipped by October and then they started shipping in August? If that's really the case, then you're talking about a pretty ridiculous piece of semantics here.
They're going to begin shipping a HUGE project ON TIME. To me that's a pretty big win. And feth, I'll gladly receive my game last if it'll help someone that is all bent out of shape get theirs earlier.
I think being clear on the shipping estimate is important, yes. I don't see how it's arguing semantics when "October" is not "August". That's a pretty decent gaking difference in time frames, especially if it means some of our international folks (whom often draw the short end of the stick) might not be getting theirs for months after that. "2015" isn't "August" either, but all it could take is one delayed container or significant hold up to see such things occur.
cincydooley wrote: And feth, I'll gladly receive my game last if it'll help someone that is all bent out of shape get theirs earlier.
Thank you for your support. If it's so unimportant to you when you get your box, I'm sure the rest of the people who'd have been behind you will appreciate getting their boxes that much sooner. All we need now is a couple dozen more generous souls like you and we could see people's shipping dates moved up days and weeks! Huzzah!
You seem really angry about this, can you give me a reference for where they said that?
I had a quick look on the KS page and the pledges give a delivery time of August 2014, if they start shipping on the same month as their estimated time I think thats FRAKKING AMAZING especially when I think to the other KS I have backed and their delivery dates (Zombicide S2, Sedition Wars, Myth, Robotech, Deadzone)
At this stage if I received my pledge in October I would still be gushing with amazement but I will reserve my enthusiasm for when I actually have it in my hands otherwise I will just get depressed as I was with Myth (and still am but I have tried to forget about it) .
Mango, I'm less bent out of shape about when they ship, more bent out of shape because they're using semantics to cover up a gaffe. I pointed out that they would ship in August, they thought by Gencon. If you and I, on the swap shop here, exchanged several things, and I told you I would ship next week, but then only sent you one of the items we'd agreed upon, that would be ok? Because I started shipping to you next week?
Basically, everything they've now revealed I view as them toeing the line and excitedly pointing out that "we met our intent!!" If they've been working on this game for 3+ years, 9 months should have been ample time to have the core games completed, as they pretty much had all the figures digitally completed prior to the end of the KS.
cincydooley wrote:So it would have been better, to you, if they had said everything will be shipped by October and then they started shipping in August? If that's really the case, then you're talking about a pretty ridiculous piece of semantics here.
They're going to begin shipping a HUGE project ON TIME. To me that's a pretty big win. And feth, I'll gladly receive my game last if it'll help someone that is all bent out of shape get theirs earlier.
You point out the semantics in your post, but you're fine with FFPs playing on semantics? They've never stated, until this post, that their intent was to begin shipping in August. And when you say a HUGE project, it is only the 2 (two) core games. Which they've been working on for 3+ years. With most of the core sculpts done. So I don't see where all the back patting is coming from. Them missing the deadline, which it seems to be leaning towards, is more likely. And I'm not saying they're bad people, or a terrible company. But a lot of people seem to accept lower standards because it is a KS. Sorry that I don't cut professional companies slack. Guess they have all the apologists to make them feel better at that.
Salacious Greed wrote: If you and I, on the swap shop here, exchanged several things, and I told you I would ship next week, but then only sent you one of the items we'd agreed upon, that would be ok? Because I started shipping to you next week?
Come on, you know thats a crappy argument.
1 - If we did a trade and you told me you had to manufacture the items I wanted and have them shipped to you and then you didnt ship them to me the next week because of some circumstances then I would be fine with you taking another week or two.
2 - If you had moved house and you could only find some of the items and partially shipped my order in good faith then yes I would be happy to wait.
3 - If you had the items I wanted sitting on your desk and you didnt ship them because you thought someone might offer you more $$$ in the next week then No that wouldnt be ok.
Which one of the above is the most similar to the situation with SoB?
What the hell is so wrong with that. One of the bloody appeals of Kickstarter is 'getting in on the ground floor', including an opportunity to give the product a whirl before the public.
Just because YOU don't give a frell doesn't mean it isn't fraking important to someone else.
The problem here is, once again, bad communication.
This is yet another Kickstarter that is going to ship quite late.
Due to ship in August 2014.
If the core boxes ship out from September to October, and that still seems completely out of whack, but maybe they're finally trying to be 'realistic' with a ship date, how long until everything else ships out and this one is 'complete'? Probably sometime WELL into 2015.
And it wouldn't shock me at all if this one ends up near a year late as well.
It looks like this one was delayed, clearly, and that rather than tell the backers the 'bad news' as soon as they had it, they decided to go with the sad trend of "Don't say anything until we have to, even though it will be painfully obvious that this thing's schedule is completely borked because we haven't even sent out a Pledge Manager yet!!!"
What the hell is so wrong with that. One of the bloody appeals of Kickstarter is 'getting in on the ground floor', including an opportunity to give the product a whirl before the public.
Just because YOU don't give a frell doesn't mean it isn't fraking important to someone else.
Nothing is wrong with it I suppose. To me it's just very childish and entitled and very much indicative of today's society.
I couldn't care less if I'm first to get something. I back KS projects because of the value, not the timing.
But then again I seldom buy new games at full retail at GenCon because somehow I was instilled with patience.
@Thread: Rule #1, please... you can refute the other person's point without being rude.
Small tangent below, about kickstarters in general...
Spoiler:
Personally, timing is getting more important to me as a backer. It's frustrating that I'll be getting the remainder of my Dreamforge pledge 1.5 - 2 YEARS after the delivery estimate. Likewise, I love Mecha Front but because new models were achieved, already sculpted models were delayed.
I am getting more interested in smaller projects with achievable scope and timelines. Which is why I like the new, smaller Mierce campaign. It also is working well for Tre of Red Box Games.
It seems most of these companies can't handle huge logistics without massive problems, so better to focus on what they can handle. I also don't care only about value- I've often pledged for something with a project in mind, or as a gift for someone for a certain occasion, or for use at a convention. If it's late, I have less value because I have to buy another item for the same purpose. Timing matters... but what matters even more is good communication, and it seems they're struggling on that front. That's the only reason Dreamforge had backer patience for so long, although unfortunately the updates have been sparser lately.
All that said, I am a bit jaded now, so for Kickstarters a month or two really is in the noise for me at this point
Estimated. Not guaranteed. If even a single box is shipped before August ends, they have lived up to their end better than about 90% of the kickstarters I have backed. Sure, communication could be better, but cool your jets. Not everyone can be Poots.
Yeah, I didn't realize that was the original estimate- that's pretty darn close! Much better than most. But communication really can help smooth over things like this. I have no idea if they're communicating well or not, personally... but reactions seem to indicate "not"
Regardless, I'm very interested in how this game turns out!
H.B.M.C. wrote: Are they going to sell the tile sets from this game because holy crap they're amazing!?!
Based on how the company has done things up to this point, I'd say either they will be available, or they will work with you to get them to you - I own practically everything Flying Frog has put out up to now, and I have no personal complaints about them at all. When they did their initial run of Last Night on Earth, the game boards were a bit dark, and when they did the first expansion and the game boards for that were lighter, they replaced the first run game boards with lighter versions that matched the expansion for free. The few issues I've had - a couple of figures messed up - were resolved quickly and at their expense.
They've always seemed pretty open to helping people out, but bear in mind it's a pretty small organization so keep multiple lines of communication open.
What the hell is so wrong with that. One of the bloody appeals of Kickstarter is 'getting in on the ground floor', including an opportunity to give the product a whirl before the public.
Just because YOU don't give a frell doesn't mean it isn't fraking important to someone else.
Nothing is wrong with it I suppose. To me it's just very childish and entitled and very much indicative of today's society.
I couldn't care less if I'm first to get something. I back KS projects because of the value, not the timing.
But then again I seldom buy new games at full retail at GenCon because somehow I was instilled with patience.
Cincy,
I never claimed entitlement to being first to get the game. I pointed out the hipocrisy of FFP of selling games to people at Gencon before sending out ANY to backers. They could certainly have multiple demo copies on hand to drum up interest and drive up demand without selling any there. It's apparent that, a lot like Palladium, the backers didn't really "make this game happen", we just pre-ordered it from them, and other people who didn't will get copies sooner.
I, like you, would be fine with being the very last backer to receive mine. It is the perception of how we're being treated by the company that I take exception with.
Bromsy wrote:Yeah, I am with Cinc on this one.
Here's the kicker for me
Estimated delivery: Aug 2014
Estimated. Not guaranteed. If even a single box is shipped before August ends, they have lived up to their end better than about 90% of the kickstarters I have backed. Sure, communication could be better, but cool your jets. Not everyone can be Poots.
Bromsy,
This is a very good point. I agree that they estimated shipment in August. However, at no point in the entire KS or since, did they ever even hint that it would take 10 weeks to ship this to everyone. And, this:
Estimated delivery: Aug 2014
Isn't met by shipping 10% in August. Delivery, in terms of corporate shipping, usually means actual receipt of the product. This is why most professional corporations use the term "shipping", "ship dates" and such. Then the vagaries of arrival are on the actual postal services. So, by shipping to 10-20% of backers doesn't earn this company a pass. That isn't meeting their deadline, however, I infer from their updates and posts that they feel it is "meeting their intent".
I'm not espousing internet rage, kicking my feet and demanding a refund. But I don't feel that because this is KS, which allows "creative people to generate artsy things that they can't fund themselves", that a professional company gets a pass. Is the company going to overshoot it's estimate? Yes. Is it horrible in and of itself? No, not at all. Is their communication, tone and implied lack of respect towards the people who funded their "dream game" a problem? Yes. This company can't even generate a pledge manager.
I'm not tearing down any of their games, not even this one. Merely pointing out that I no longer respect the company for their actual choices that they are making, and their lack of communication and respect. Everyone has different viewpoints. Cincy has said that he backed this solely for the game, and takes exception that I don't like his choices, and has inferred that I should be happy to just receive the game. Sorry. I'll receive the game regardless. I think they should act like a professional company in the meantime.
Funny story, the estimated time frame wasn't originally part of KS. The rampant delays on Kickstarters in years past actually let to the KS platform requiring that creators at least take a stab at estimating when their stuff would be out. Just like the FAQ and the Risks & Challenges sections were added (and I believe both are required now).
Anyone reasonable accepts that the date isn't an absolute, but for most projects the delays are "it's not ready". I've never seen one before go with "It'll be kinda ready, but we're gonna stagger this out over 3 months to make things easier". There's a difference in delays that happen because of production hold ups, and delays that happen because they don't want to over work their packaging service.
And seriously, ~1000 every couple of weeks? Are they just using one dude with an over sized garage?
"Sorry, the ship got held up in port an extra three weeks" or "the factory we're using had a machine break down, going to need another month" are reasonable delay exceptions. "omg 4,500 backers is a lot of packages" isn't.
Perhaps I'm being uncharitable (and like SG here, this isn't something I'm losing sleep over or writing harsh emails to them about; I'm annoyed, but more in a 'I expected better from you guys' sense), but I totally agree with Alpharius, it'd be really nice for them to step up their game in terms of communication, as unlikely as it may be for that to happen.
Alpharius wrote: I think *every* Kickstarter uses the "Estimated Delivery" terminology - it is probably hard coded into the platform.
I'm with RiTides on this subject too - I'm definitely becoming a LOT more interested in Kickstarters that deliver on time.
A lot of this particular mess could have been avoided with...more communication, not less!
And there still has NOT been an 'official' update about this whole thing!
Be careful what you wish for; you could wind up with a Mantic who always deliver on time but with questionable results. I'd rather wait a while (not years) for a quality product than have a giant pile of restic with mold-lines all over the place.
Also, I imagine at least some people are feeling antsy because we aren't being given clarifications, and "delivering in a month" becoming "it'll deliver in three months" plus international shipping time, possible delays and whatnot is how projects end up "ooops, took 6/8/12 months after all".
Do I seriously think people will still be waiting on Wave One boxes in a year? Probably not, but minimizing it as "oh it's just an extra month or two, grow up" ignores the entire swathes of cited examples people love to bring up regarding delays and customs and shipping issues etc. Why think that it'll *just* be those three months?
And as noted before, if nothing else I'm a bit surprised that they're going to take so long and presumably wait even longer on retail? Going to stores in Oct/Nov might be just in time for the christmas rush, but it seems like they're cutting an awfully fine line sorting it all out. What then? Being understanding of sales at Gencon is one thing, but being upset if this thing does go to retail before backer delivery (like Gencon, 'omg they'd be crazy to miss the christmas sales period!)
It becomes a bunch of rough things to deal with in this time frame, but they're the experts, and presumably at some point they looked at a calendar and noticed that August was looming and Christmas happens a mere 4 months after that.
here have been a few KS where the companies packaging dept have outpaced the ability of the local postal service to handle things
to the extent that the company has been told we'll only take X per day from you and don't try and bypass it by delivering it to a post office yourself eg Reaper
If there's money in the budget a company might be able to add an alternative carrier (and they should), but if there isn't they';re stuck
Guess I should have the Dwarven Forge guys reach out to FFP, get them hooked up with whomever they used. >.>
Hopefully FFP follows through with getting us the game manual in the next update, and it's soon'ish, to give us more things to talk about.
Bonus points if they do clarify this new stance on delivery in said update. Squeaking one out before Gencon eats their souls/free time would be appreciated.
FFP was terrible on the communication front throughout the kickstarter. Updates were always later, the front page was often updated before an official update was sent out, we now have to live with 1 info-lacking update a month, and there's never been an acknowledgement on their part that they could and should do better. The updates post-kickstarter have been pretty, but they hardly give much information on the global state of progress for the project. It wasn't hard to see this during the KS, and so I'm not even the slightest bit surprised by this news.
Just as an aside, how many kickstarter projects have you guys backed where you feel like FFP was all that bad about this one?
So far I have
Wasteland 2 : Estimated Delivery Oct 2013 - still in beta
Shadowrun Returns : Estimated Delivery - January 013 - released July 013
Sedition Wars - Estimated Delivery Nov 012 - released Januaryish 2013 for the first wave and many months later for the other waves
Shadowrun Online - Estimated Delivery - May, 2013 - still in barely alpha
Planetary Annihilation - Estimated Delivery Jul 2013 - currently in fairly advanced beta
Project Eternity - Estimated Delivery - Apr 2014 - still in pre alpha
Deluxe WtA 20th Anniversary - Estimated Delivery - Jan 2013 - delivered somewhere around May 2013
Assimilation Alien Host -Estimated Delivery -Apr 2013 - god only knows
Kingdom Death Monster - Estimated Delivery - Nov 2013 - seriously delayed but good communication so people don't care
Dice Rings - Estimated Delivery - Feb 2013 - shipped May 2013
and so on.
Chill out. Moderately 'bad' communication is not a reason to get all offended and angry. Kickstarters, including ones by 'successful companies' are usually badly estimated messes. Even these 'successful companies' are usually less than a dozen individuals. They have things going on. stop getting butthurt before we even reach estimated delivery time.
I was on the relic knights and raging heroes ks. And those had 2 year wait Times. TWO YEARS!! Delays(huge long)are pretty much part and parcel of funding a miniature ks. I find I seem to do much better if i don't even look at the actual delivery date.
Being mad and stressed wont make it go any faster and just ruins your day. It ships when it ships and at this point in the campaign...there is nothing anyone can do about it.
Other Kickstarters being delayed or having poor communication is a reason to not be surprised when others do it, but it's not an excuse.
Each of those is delayed and/or has crappy communications all on their own.
And as an aside, video game creation is a rather different thing from a boardgame that was stated to have 3 years of work on it when the campaign went live (pushing 4 now, I suppose).
rayphoton wrote: I was on the relic knights and raging heroes ks. And those had 2 year wait Times. TWO YEARS!
This game has some serious numbers of figures coming with it. WOW!!!
It is nice of them to clarify how much our backing this project for them means. For those of us who might have our core games shipped in October, we're FAR less important than all those random Gencon attendees! 
