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Yeah i was almost interested and then I saw the 50$


nope

Wave 1.5 shipping start date is in there, just well hidden...

Wave 1.5 Updated Contents
We put together a huge list of items to be included in Wave 1.5. But, there are more miniature sets that are very close to completion. By pushing back our Wave 1.5 shipping date to start in December, we will be able to include a lot more stuff, including the Lord of Cynder, Scourge of Worlds, Last of the Shadow Kings... BELI'AL!

Even at 50 bucks I must admit the temptation is there.

We don't need to pay wave 2 shipping in 2017 or whenever, do we?

timd wrote:
Wave 1.5 shipping start date is in there, just well hidden...

Wave 1.5 Updated Contents
We put together a huge list of items to be included in Wave 1.5. But, there are more miniature sets that are very close to completion. By pushing back our Wave 1.5 shipping date to start in December, we will be able to include a lot more stuff, including the Lord of Cynder, Scourge of Worlds, Last of the Shadow Kings... BELI'AL!

D'oh!

Thanks for point that out!

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
Even at 50 bucks I must admit the temptation is there.

We don't need to pay wave 2 shipping in 2017 or whenever, do we?

I don't think so. It is just that Wave 2 is going to be around this time next year, most likely!

I'm a "regular" backer and at this point I'm not even entirely sure what I'll be getting anymore.

So Flying Frog took stuff to Gencon before sending it out to kickstarter backers?

Some of it was available for pickup at Gen Con, as well as for sale. There were also the 2 new creatures available outside of the KS at Gen Con- the slugs and vermin.

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
Some of it was available for pickup at Gen Con, as well as for sale. There were also the 2 new creatures available outside of the KS at Gen Con- the slugs and vermin.

Ah, thanks for clarifying. Still, seems odd that they'd take kits to GenCon without fulfilling KS backers? That's kind of ... not cool Flying Frog.

I'm pretty sure they were 100% upfront about it though?

To me it is no big deal - a complete non-issue.

 Alpharius wrote:

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
Even at 50 bucks I must admit the temptation is there.

We don't need to pay wave 2 shipping in 2017 or whenever, do we?

I don't think so. It is just that Wave 2 is going to be around this time next year, most likely!

Wave 2 shipping is already covered. Wave 1.5 is for people not willing to wait another year for more stuff. The extra year delay in get stuff out makes wave 2 shipping too far in the future, I want more stuff NOW, so am paying the wave 1.5 shipping. Seems more than a bit overpriced for just shipping. I'm assuming that it will also cover some of the packing labor and materials.

T

Thanks Timd, I'd missed that as well.

And they were absolutely 100% up front about it. Hell, they had at least one update about it before hand (letting people know they could pick up Cynder), and another afterwards talking about it.

To go over the usual talking points;

A) while many KS backers *assume* that 'getting it first' is part of the arrangement, FFP made no such promise to us.

B) they sold core boxes at Gencon 2014 before shipping to backers too. Precedent has been set. Spoiler warning: they'll probably do it again at Gencon 2016.

C) they were selling at Gencon at *full MSRP*. Backers paid, like, half that or less. Sure, people got it a few months before even wave 1.5 backers, but they paid a significant markup (full MSRP plus taxes, actually, and on top of that international folks had to contend with exchange rates as well).

D) they had a pile of stuff available, and in the 4'ish months from Gencon to 1.5 shipping in December, they've added another pile of stuff. People complain about late and delayed KS's all the time, but I think it's awfully short sighted to ignore when a KS campaign actually manages to DO something, to progress, to have materials ready to go. I'll take this over something like Robotech where they delivered the core boxes a year late, and we're approaching 2 years late without an end in sight, no evidence of progress in 7 months (no exaggeration).

It's imperfect, but given what they're working with, it could be a lot worse.

Also, as fair warning, the first day of Winter is the end of December, so saying "fall 2016" could easily push to the literal end of the year. So yeah, it's possible some international packages might not arrive until January 2017, but even as one of those, I'll take that (with them spending the time to make a quality product for my money) than rushing to get crap out just to say it's out.

One of my professors from many years ago used to say "you can get things Good, Fast, and Cheap, but you're lucky if you get 2 of the 3".

Subjectively (up to personal opinion), we got a Good product, and we Objectively (factually) got it Cheap (1/2 retail or less). Getting it Fast would be nice, but we're already beyond par here.

Alpharius wrote:I'm pretty sure they were 100% upfront about it though?

Forar wrote:>stuff<

Clearly I didn't have all the details! If they were up front about it then carry on Flying Frog, carry on. I wish I'd gotten in on the Kickstarter but I completely forgot until it was over. I'm a Flying Frog fan (own all of LNOE, IFOS, ToE and both cores for SoB along with Caverns), so it's good to hear they weren't sketchy in the slightest.

Apologies if I came on a bit strong. It feels like I'm clarifying and contextifying for KS backers on a weekly basis at times, perhaps there was a little general exasperation present that wasn't necessary.

And to be fair, it's not like it has been a campaign without things to reasonably take issue with. The communication is infrequent at best; they'll go 4-6 weeks or so without an update before dropping a bomb. They've said that they don't want to have 'hey, we're still alive!' updates, but I have a hard time believing they couldn't at least check in a little more regularly and split some of the sizable ones they do produce into more frequent smaller chunks.

It is a considerable delay; nobody sensible thought they'd do 3+ years work in a year, but as much as I appreciate them taking the time to produce (what I think is) a great product, late 2014 to late 2016 (or early 2017) is a hell of a time frame. I stand by my statements about them actually producing things (gold star!), but it's not an easy timeline for everyone to swallow, I get that.

It is a *spicy* product line. Expensive as the Mine Cart was, this whole thing at retail (even with a CSI level discount) is still a couple of grand, and one could throw an astronomical amount at it to have a variety of paint schemes and whatnot.

Long story short, there could be improvements in how this progresses, but overall I'm quite pleased with the product I've received thus far. It's not ideal, but it's what they have to work with and what they can offer us.

I do hope 1.5 goes well (even if I'm not a part of it), and that retail starts expanding significantly. Even if they're still flush with funding monies for wave 2 product, a big pile of cash on top of that from moving stuff to retailers couldn't hurt either.

I managed to miss the fact that two new non-kickstarter creature boxes had a limited realise so hopefully it wont be too long until the slugs and void rats hit retail properly.

Yeah, I completely missed this too!

Anyonw have all the specifics?

Apologies, I had the wrong names earlier. They are swamp slugs and hell vermin. From what I understand the vermin are a mines based enemy.

They come with a painting guide on top of the regular cards and some copies are still available on eBay with a big markup. Hopefully they are released at the same time they ship wave 1.5.

I also saw some "dark stone shards" exclusive terrain pieces on eBay in part of a bulk bundle someone is selling but can't find any information on them at all. Hopefully just the resin versions are exclusive and they do a plastic general release.

I think it'd probably be faster/more efficient for FFP to just try to get the Slugs and Vermin to retail asap, where people probably wouldn't have to pay full MSRP (as they would with FFP) and likely pick them up in roughly the same time, if not faster (especially if they can get them to retail before the holiday crush in November, which would be before 1.5 shipping begins in December anyway).

The Dark Stone Shards are just an in-house resin 'bling' bit that was available in a blister at Gencon. 5 pieces of resin darkstone, nothing to worry about, definitely not something worth spending a reseller's markup for. I only have a set because I was given a prize for participating in the painting competition, was going to skip them entirely otherwise.

Now, because I was bored this afternoon, enjoy a little graphical demonstration;

As we can see, they've actually gotten a considerable amount done in the last 14 months or so (from completion of the Core Boxes to now), and presumably have things that are somewhere approaching ready but just haven't been completed yet (we've seen renders of piles of figures, perhaps rules are still being tweaked for some of them, or they're also undergoing another pass to make sure the detail comes out to their liking, etc).

3 more Otherworlds to go, 5 mission packs, and a pile of cards and figures. There's definitely still a lot to do, but I'm happy that they are, in fact, making progress.

Forar - bravo there!

That is awesome and quite helpful!

And it probably also just convinced me to get that 1.5 shipping...

That wave 2 box for mine cart backers who do not have a wave 1.5 is going to be insanely big!

Thank you, Alpharius.

Credit where credit is due, I got the idea from a backer named Phal who created this site.

Last I checked, he hadn't updated for 1.5, so I thought I'd give it a shot with cutting and pasting in Paint.

Apologies if there are any errors, I tried to be as accurate as possible.

And worth noting, not every image is equal; some reflect a single figure or pack of cards, others are an entire otherworld, lest anyone thing I was being misleading (intentionally or otherwise).

But yeah, it was mostly for my own benefit, but I'm glad others like to see it that way as well.

Forar wrote:Apologies if I came on a bit strong. It feels like I'm clarifying and contextifying for KS backers on a weekly basis at times, perhaps there was a little general exasperation present that wasn't necessary.

Not at all! I know it can be hard to tell with text, but I am genuinely glad that FFG is/was upfront about retail before KS being a possibility. Like I said, I didn't find out about this until well after the KS had ended, so I'm not getting any updates that FFG is putting out or anything. I've been playing their games for awhile now (need to order Conquest: Earth at some point...) and I've always liked the way they do things.

Speaking of, I took the time to punch all the board pieces and tokens for City of the Ancients and Caverns of Cynder yesterday (already head Swamps of Despair punched). I'm going to have to find a new storage solution, because the amount of stuff in those boxes is insane. Cards especially I suspect I will need a storage solution for, since I have all the cardboard chits in a tacklebox.

I enjoy CoPE, hopefully it proves a hit with your group as well! And I've been using divided boxes from a local hardware shop. I've got 2 so far; one for the two core boxes, and a second for Cynder. I could probably go with a more affordable solution, but I'm thinking that with a little effort I might be able to get the cards in there as well, and end up with a box per Otherworld or two, something that'll sit in a stack on the shelves until needed, and free up space within the core boxes I'm using for card/tile storage as it is.

4 more Otherworlds plus mission packs plus enemies, I'm going to need a full cabinet just to store this all, which strangely I don't consider a bad thing.

Speaking of new content; here is a preview of the upcoming Frontier Town Expansion.

Personally I think it looks *awesome*. So much potential to really change up how the game is played.

Love that Frontier Town!

They're really packing more into the game and supplements than we initially signed up for. Makes the deal even better!

Wow! Hadn't seen or heard about this video yet. Very cool stuff.

Makes the decision to get that 1.5 shipping that much more tempting...

Can anyone speak to the quality of the Tentacles?

They're good, solid plastic models? My only real issue with them was the plastic bulged on the base, so it took some cutting to get the base flat enough to sit on the base.

Other than that, they're obviously the easiest of the models to get usable, since they're one piece instead of like 5.

Frankly, as a rampant fanboy of the game?

Meh.

There's a couple of mold lines and connection points on the sprues that are in obnoxious places right on detail points.

Edit: and steamdragon is right, I had to cut/file mine down to sit flat as well, though that was a fairly quick and simple thing to cover.

I primed and painted mine to a basic level (as I am a basic level painter) and don't mind them, but if you're a hardcore minis guy looking to create display pieces, I wouldn't fault you for wanting to rage quit over a couple of them. They're not all horrific, but it's not ideal either.

I'd think someone looking for great display pieces shouldn't be looking to Flying Frog Games though. Their figures have always been "serviceable" in terms of casting quality. They've never really been the focal point of the game.

So pretty workable so long as I'm willing to do a little work on them?

Yup. There are sprue pics on Google Image search, along with shots of some painted ones.