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Ah well - what can we do right?

Also, that 'Joshua' character in the comments sections of apparently every Kickstarter project ever?

WTF?

What a Goal Post Moving/My Mood Changes Depending on the Project/Did he really say "F' You all Because I'm awesome and have a hot wife"? guy - is he for real or just some sort of weird KS Professional Troll?

I don't know what that dude's problem is.

At least part of it seems to be based on his ability to resell. He (allegedly) sold a pile of RRT stuff, going as far as buying other people's pledges up and selling those off as well, and going on the ebay prices for Battle Cry packs and Wave One auctions, he probably did pretty well for himself at the time.

SoB he apparently pledged $1, hoping to get in during the pledge manager, and was quite perturbed when the PM happened and the $1 backers couldn't get anything (or was it they could only get a single tier?). Either way, they couldn't get multiple packs, and it was gnawing at him for weeks.

He's very much one of those 'only things I think are important are worth worrying about, everyone else is a whiny entitled crybaby' types, who are simply obnoxious in Comments sections.

Personally, even if something isn't important to me, I can recognize that it's important to others. I might try to sway their view as to how much emphasis a given issue is really worth giving, but I wouldn't dream of telling them they're not allowed to be angry/annoyed/frustrated.

If nothing else, that's generally a good way to piss them off further, making it seem he's more content to troll than to actually converse.

As I recall, the whole 'hot wife' thing started with him making fun of Rick's (of RRT fame) profile pic, which led to some snooping on his own info, and led to this piece of work;

"Based on my profile pics, did you honestly think you could some how make me feel bad about my personal life??? Lets see, hot wife, I live comfortable and never have to leave the house... What could you possibly have on me that would make me give a crap? Let me give you a hint, there is nothing... TRY HARDER!"

While he's had moments of lucidity (jerk as he is, he was also the first person to hook me up with a pic of the map my friends ended up on (in name)), ever since we first crossed paths a good 2 years ago in RRT, he's always been kind of a jerk.

Is 'Joshua' only in for a dollar, and is trolling the KS Comments because he wasn't able to upgrade in the PM?

I had to go read the ks comments just to see who this josh guy was. I'm impressed with his level of vitriol and high dickery.

I think he's hot!

He's the very antithesis of 'polite' and 'considerate' and just goes to underscore what a joke the Kickstarter comments section are in terms of utility and moderation.

 Alpharius wrote:
He's the very antithesis of 'polite' and 'considerate' and just goes to underscore what a joke the Kickstarter comments section are in terms of utility and moderation.

Glad I wasn't the only one who thought that....

A bunch of pictures from Gencon, including my submission to the painting competition (a diorama using more Dwarven Forge tiles), some other entries, the 3D Targa table, the Cynder loot game, and new figures!






Automatically Appended Next Post:
And for those that were concerned about assembly, it seems they've listened.

The Cynder Lavamen are a single piece. The hell vermin and swamp slugs were 2 pieces each.

The Trun Hunters are more (9 pieces, but you only build 3 of them), and the Guardian is a sizable amount of pieces/plastic, but all told most of the figures I assembled were pretty straightforward.

Can't wait to build the Burrower tonight. That thing is *huge*, has a mission included with it, and throws a lot of stuff on its head.

Also the Guardians are terrifying.

So...did you win?

Thanks for the pictures!

Did you get a chance to try out the new expansion (Cinder)?

And if so - what do you think?

I opened my copy of Cinder and I was reminded of two things:

1 - The card components are really solid and the game genuinely does look interesting to me.

2 - I continue to be really, really underwhelmed by the miniatures.

Picking up Cinder, and realizing how much more I have coming, makes me consider getting a base box again....but I haven't been able to commit yet.....

I think a decent/good painter can make the current minis 'shine' enough to be more than OK.

And HOPEFULLY the next wave of stuff will have a bit sharper detail.

I really like the game and the theme, so I'm in for the long haul!

 Alpharius wrote:
I think a decent/good painter can make the current minis 'shine' enough to be more than OK.

And HOPEFULLY the next wave of stuff will have a bit sharper detail.

I really like the game and the theme, so I'm in for the long haul!

Agreed. Lovejoy has certainly shown that.

It does look like the quality of some of the new models they had on display is superior.

 Alpharius wrote:
So...did you win?

Thanks for the pictures!

Did you get a chance to try out the new expansion (Cinder)?

And if so - what do you think?

They gave out prizes, I'm not sure if I 'won', if it was more of a participation reward, or if it was going to be the former and became the latter due to a seemingly low number of entries (I think for dioramas it was just me and the Slasher on an incredible base). Either way, it was a very pleasant surprise to receive some extra loot! The entries all looked good to me, and I especially liked the bone/grey Harbinger. I'm way behind on painting, but look forward to seeing what I can do with mine.

I picked up (from the line or purchased) the following stuff:

- Cynder (from the lineup, Lavamen are a single piece) + Artifact Expansion
- Doorways Into Darkness (15 card mini expansion, 5 gear, 5 mine encounters, 5 darkness, doors are all a single piece and feel hefty).
- Hell Vermin (2 piece two headed rats, Large enemies)
- Swamp Slugs (2 piece slugs, Large)
- Darkstone Brutes (haven't assembled yet, Large)
- Trun Hunters (9 pieces, I think, also Large)
- Guardian (high piece count and poseability on this one)
- Burrower (haven't assembled yet, but it's HUGE)

Basically all the stuff they had that I wouldn't be getting with my Outlaw pledge (like the Serpentmen and Masters of the Void)

Initial impressions are that the quality is acceptable for my level of skill and interest, and they seem to have taken the complaints of parts counts/assembly to heart. Experienced modelers might not like it, and I'm sure there's always room for improvement, but at least the bitching about having to assemble figures should be reduced for much of what I've seen. They mentioned the Serpentmen having some build variety (different weapons and whatnot), so there may still be some packs out there that take a while to put together, but I'm liking what I've seen. Assembled most of the stuff over the last few days, the Guardian is resting in a bunch of pieces with small clamps to keep them tight, further assembly of that tonight, likely along with the Burrower and the Brutes.

I haven't had a chance to play with Cynder yet, but I've liked what I've seen at a glance, and from the loot crawl, I can say that lavamen are indeed dangerous. The new mechanics all have potential, and adding 6 more missions (and another with the Burrower) also add to the backlog to chew through over the coming months.

When I talked to various staff (including the Hills and some others), there was a real sense of passion for the game. I expressed an appreciation for the 'roughly monthly update schedule', asked about wave 1.5 (hopefully October was what I heard, Fall in general seems to be the common response from others I've seen chatting about it), and things should begin getting to retail in the next couple of months. They were all highly engaging, pleasant to chat with, and really supportive of my willingness to eat up an entire floor of their display case.

A friend of mine managed to pick up Cinder as part of his Wave 1.5 during GenCon (day 1, he was the first guy in line when they ran out... day 2, he got there a lot earlier and got one!)

Any updates on enemies that shoot? That was one big mechanic that wasn't introduced in either base set. I'm curious to see how battling the undead gunslinger or the trederran legionnaires might mix things up a bit.

My sister got me the Swamps of Death starter for my birthday. I've seen the game and love everything else Flying Frog so I had it up on my wishlist on Amazon, but I haven't actually looked into it deeply. Is it basically like a Descent / Imperial Assault esque game? I'm still reading through the rulebook and will probably give a solo run a try this weekend to get a feel for the game.

edit: quick question, are there any "must have" supplement purchases? I figure I'll probably order the variant figures from their site, if they're available (can't check at work).

I reckon you could say it's akin to Descent, with one (very big) difference: it's fully coop. You're playing against the game, rather than against another player.

Right now the only supplemental purchase is the other core set, City of the Ancients. New stuff should be coming out in a few months. Kickstarter backers should get their next shipment in November, I think? I'm guessing they really want that stuff to be available at retail for Xmas, so if you love the game, I'm afraid you're in for a bit of a wait....

Solution: decide to paint your set. Take 6 months to do it. When you get in your first game (because you certainly wouldn't play it unpainted, would you?) and love it, hooray, you'll have more options to supplement it with!

Personally, I found the two core sets to provide a significant amount of variety. Between them they have 18 quests (some more unique than others, granted), 8 PC character classes, some decent enemy variety (when including Elite abilities and combinations of things to fight and kill/die at the hands and claws of) and some really solid thematic and gameplay mechanics.

If you really enjoy Swamps of Death, the obvious follow up is City of the Ancients.

Aside from that, there isn't much at retail for now, but I've gotten a couple dozen games in with my friends in the last 8-9 months, and it has always been a blast.

If you're just getting into it now, you're only a couple of months away (hopefully) from some stuff starting to land at retail, which will open up some options.

From those, I'd lean towards sets with Small/Medium/Large enemies; the XL/XXL figures are great (I'm building two of them from Gencon as it is), but as the "End Boss" figures, you'll probably see the others more often, making the variety more obvious.

Cynder only adds one new Large figure type, but there seems to be some awesome mechanics to include. I haven't played it yet, though I did watch the Loot Crawl this year, and I can't wait for it to hit the table. My crew needs to hit Cynder, and to hunt the Burrower, and etc, etc, etc!

But I admit my bias; I am a huge fan of the game, how it plays, and how much fun my friends and I have had with it.

 Alpharius wrote:
I think a decent/good painter can make the current minis 'shine' enough to be more than OK.
And HOPEFULLY the next wave of stuff will have a bit sharper detail.
I really like the game and the theme, so I'm in for the long haul!

With their fulfilment speed, we're all in for the long haul!

Damn, so the alternate models aren't available? Are they KS exclusive and never coming to retail? Shotgun Nun and Lady Lawman are kind of high on my list.

Good to know I'm not super far behind though.

They will come to retail, but backers have barely any of the content yet, let alone anyone else.

It will be a while before much of the SG/Add-on list will be available for purchase. Pretty much only the core sets are available at the moment.

Yeah, IF were very lucky we'll have everything owed us by this time NEXT year.

GENCON 2016.

Maybe.

Yeah, given the complete lack of movement or communication on the fulfilment front, I think 2017 is probably more likely.

How bloody sad is that?

 Azazelx wrote:
Yeah, given the complete lack of movement or communication on the fulfilment front, I think 2017 is probably more likely.

How bloody sad is that?

Well..yes it is sad. However if you were "lucky" enough to have gotten in on raging heroes toughest girls KS...well...its been 2 years and that STILL hasn't fulfilled. So...it could be worse

Heroquest 25th is delayed...the rest of cthulu wars.....

Kickstarters are like guide books on how to become zen......

Oof, had no idea Flying Frog was that far behind. I guess I shouldn't be surprised since Blood in the Forest was what, a full year late?

Glad to hear the alternate models will eventually be available though.

Hopeful as I am, I certainly wouldn't bet hard money on a 2016 delivery, but they put out the core boxes within 1 year, wave 1.5 will apparently start coming online within a year after that (hopefully backers will get theirs around Oct/Nov and stuff will start showing at retail), and a year more for 2 more Otherworlds, several mission packs, and another pile of figures (granted, some are just 'alt art' versions) seems pretty reasonable.

It's easy to roll ones eyes and say "oh yes, another Kickstarter is late, because of course they are", but unlike many of the horror stories, let's not overlook that at least some of this gak exists, and more is appearing.

I'd rather have this ongoing progress (new things appearing in art and renders and prototypes over the months) than, say, the gakshow that is Palladium's campaign, which delivered their wave one a year late, and may take 2+ more to deliver the remnant.

Maybe my bias just makes me an appologist, and believe me I wish the communication were a touch more regular/frequent (a solid update once a month would generally suit me, considering that they do pack in some details as to what is going on).

If nothing else, according to a guy on the KS comments, the vast majority of the figures have been seen as a render, prototype, or plastic at this point. While finalizing and punching plastic certainly takes time, at least there's a light at the end of the tunnel.

It'd be nice if it wasn't 12-18+ months away, but in the sense of "Good, Fast, Cheap, you're lucky if you get two", it's good (imo) and backers got a pretty damned fine deal, so I can accept it won't be particularly fast.

Wave 1.5 was originally aimed around Q1 or Q2 this year, so Q3 or Q4 is indeed a push back, but it's not like they've spent the last two years sitting on their hands either.

And here's the rub:

Imagine how different the perception would be if they had done it a little differently.

Let's say KS1 is the Starter boxes and Cynder (with everything involved with Cynder).

They'd have delivered mostly on time for the first portion, and then have had Cynder be a bit late (and perhaps less so with a smaller scope).

Then, once Cynder has shipped, they KS the rest of it in a second project, as a 'phase 2.'

Their reputation is stronger, because they delivered successfully and in a reasonable amount of time. And a 2nd KS would have blown up. AND you get to check a box off, saying "we've successfully delivered on another KS."

As it stands....this thing may drag on for another year.....

I specifically brought up having perhaps bitten off a bit more than they could chew when I talked to various staff (including the Hills) at Gencon. They were happy with their progress, hopeful about the future, but recognized that there were a lot of moving parts and places where things could get hung up.

It's definitely becoming something I appreciate, when campaigns set a reasonable goal that fits within their time line, and then know when to hold off.

But that ship sailed two years ago, so now I'm just hoping that we have final delivery in 2016 (or at least packages are going out).

More 'wave 1.x' deals like the little card batch and some of the leftover Gencon stock can also help tide things over. It's not perfect, but it's something.

Obviously the lions share of the control is with the creators, make no mistake, but it'd help if the KS / Stretch Goal system didn't lead to people egging said creators on for more and more gak. Much like Creators love the ever growing money mountain that rolls in, backers sure love watching the pile of 'loot' expand.

It's generally only with the benefit of hindsight that dawning horror of just how much there is to do really sets in.

Next big campaign I'm in will definitely get a 'talking down' of sorts. Unless it's Dwarven Forge. Or Reaper. They seem to mostly have this thing in hand.

 Forar wrote:
I

Next big campaign I'm in will definitely get a 'talking down' of sorts. Unless it's Dwarven Forge. Or Reaper. They seem to mostly have this thing in hand.

Or CMON.....they seem to have ks down to a science

 Forar wrote:
But I admit my bias; I am a huge fan of the game, how it plays, and how much fun my friends and I have had with it.

Hey, that's important, too!

Looks like the wait includes improving the quality of the miniatures : https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1415205/latest-print-run-base-sets-miniature-quality

Workblocked!

What's the review say?

If it is that the quality is better now - that's good news.

But kind of sad/upsetting for those of us that already have the sets in hand.