Shadows of Brimstone (Warhammer Quest like game with a Wild West v Cthulthu Mythos Setting) - KS

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**Manchu**

A friend bought this and we played a bit last Saturday night. It really renewed my faith in how much I could like a board game.

**Fireflyjmh**

usernamesareannoying wrote:
hi all.
can anyone tell me if the mine tiles are the same in both box sets?
of course the flip sides will be different, i was wondering about the mine side.

There are a few (2-3 rooms) that are the same but for the most part each set is unique. I pulled the duplicate cards out of the mine deck so that you'd only encounter one particular room in a given mine.

**Forar**

Decided to mix one of the Shadows of Brimstone pre-built map encounters with my Dwarven Forge Caverns tiles.

Gotta say, I'm pretty happy with the outcome.

**Alpharius**

Forar - that is...spectacular!

Wow!

**highlord tamburlaine**

That's mighty impressive.

Also impressive is the fact that there aren't piles and piles of tokens and cards clogging up the rest of the table!

**Forar**

Oh, that's pre-built for a game tonight on a 5x5 space built by joining two folding tables and adding a 'star field' cloth I bought for X-Wing. And zoomed in on just the board; the player space is 'cropped out' as it were.

I'm sure the follow up pics will have piles of tokens and figures and whatnot all over the place.

Most of our games so far have been either Darkstone expeditions or 'rescue ______' treks, so I thought I'd try out another adventure type from the books.

**Forar**

Follow up pics. Caught after the game as we sort of tore through the final encounter in the heat of the moment, but it was totally worth setting up. Thinking I might even have tiles arranged next time so I can do it on the fly. The 3-dimensionality aspect really adds to the experience of a game I already enjoy so very much. Next game should get the current crew near level 4/5, and Brutal enemies ought to be interesting. Mutations are starting to show up, and some solid upgrades are being found/bought.

Damn I love this game.

**Fireflyjmh**

Great pictures!!

My buddy and I have played enough that the crew has leveled up and is running into Elite monsters... makes for some interesting games!

**Forar**

Yeah, the randomness of elites (especially with they have 2 or even 3 abilities) can really change up what one expects from the creatures, along with their otherworld counterparts.

**H.B.M.C.**

Man those tiles look amazing. I wish they sold 'em separately.

**Fireflyjmh**

http://www.bcwsupplies.com/card-sorting-tray

Might be useful for keeping the playing area tidy.

**Azazelx**

Your games really do look great! A very impressive setup.

**highlord tamburlaine**

From FFG's facebook page, from the GAMA show I'm assuming.

Trun look nice the Guardian looks big and beefy, but that Burrower? MY GOD that thing will be

huge! I wonder if it's a kit or what? I'm assuming so.

That was a 30 dollar add on too. Cthulhu was even more. Can't wait to see just how large he ends up!

**Fireflyjmh**

Hopefully the details don't get as lost as they did on the first round of figures.

Thanks for posting these.

**timd**

Thanks for posting!

Don't think that critter is going to get through that doorway without bring down the mine roof...

highlord tamburlaine wrote:
From FFG's facebook page, from the GAMA show I'm assuming.

**Forar**

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSBh7iTO-JU

They talk about Caverns of Cynder for the first half of this video.

**Bromsy**

Forar wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSBh7iTO-JU

They talk about Caverns of Cynder for the first half of this video.

Nice, I am stoked.

**Alpharius**

The latest here:

Update #53

Jun 16 2015
More Details of Wave 1.5, New Hero Preview, Caverns of Cynder Preview, Painting Events!

Hello Brimstone Gang!

We're just poking our heads up from the avalanche of work to let you know that we are making progress. Not dead, just dead tired. We have bitten off an enormous amount of design, development, art, and testing with all of the expansion material in the Stretch Goals and Add-Ons from the KS.

A new illustration of the Feral Vampires from veteran artist, Tom Baxa.

We are proud of the fact that, against the odds and without much sleep for several months, we delivered the Core Sets within a year of the KS ending. It is an unfortunate truth that many companies are using KS as more of a pre-order, rather than funding project development as it was intended. We say unfortunate, because it creates unrealistic expectations from backers - "Company "Y" sent out Game "X" 3 months after the KS ended, why can't you?!?" The truth is proper game development takes time, and when it is done right, you end up with a great game that will be enjoyed for years. That's what we do. We can't bring ourselves to shove something out the door prematurely because the wolves are at the gates growling.

Hence, we are overwhelmed, but trying hard to make amazing stuff that we know that people will enjoy once the dust settles. Any veterans of KS can tell you about many projects that were rushed and ended up completely disappointing. Many of us have backed several projects that had to come out with apologetic 2nd edition rulebooks and card sets to fix all of the broken material that was delivered. While development of our mountain of content is taking time, rest assured that we are not cutting corners and everyone will benefit from solid expansions.

That being said, we are currently still on track to deliver Wave 1.5 in early Fall...
What is Wave 1.5

First, let's be sure that everyone understands what Wave 1.5 is about. During the Pledge Manager, we offered an option for KS Backers to purchase an extra shipping wave (Wave 1.5) between Wave 1 (the actual Core Game Sets, KS Exclusive Outlaw, Paint Sets) and Wave 2 (Everything else, once every last bit is completed). The biggest two questions we receive about Wave 1.5 are "What will be in Wave 1.5?" and "Will you re-open Wave 1.5 so I can purchase that option?"
What Will be in Wave 1.5?

It's still too early to know exactly what will be contained in Wave 1.5. We have many miniature sets in production, but problems can crop up and we'll get a better picture as we get closer to the Fall. Right now, we estimate that it should include:

Caverns of Cynder OtherWorld Expansion
Lava Men
Expanded Frontier Town Expansion
Bandits
DarkStone Brutes (Minecart or Add-on)
The Guardian (Minecart or Add-on)
Trun Hunters (Add-on)
Sourge Rats
Serpentmen Warriors
Serpentmen Shaman
Void Sorcerers
Void Hounds
Doorways Set (Minecart or Add-on)
Trederran Raiders
Harvesters
The Burrower (Minecart or Add-on)
Dead Man's Bounty Game Supplement
Treasures of the Void Game Supplement
Badlands Expedition Game Supplement
Targa Artifacts Game Supplement (Add-on)
Jargono Artifacts Game Supplement (Add-on)
Cynder Artifacts Game Supplement (Add-on)
Blank Card Set: Threats (Add-on)
Blank Card Set: Mine (Add-on)
Blank Card Set: Jargono (Add-on)
Blank Card Set: Targa (Add-on)
Prospector Hero Class - with Male and Female Miniatures
Orphan Hero Class - with Male and Female Miniatures
Drifter Hero Class - with Male and Female Miniatures
Outlaw Hero Miniatures - Male and Female
Additional Enemy Sets
Additional Game Supplement Card Sets

The retail value of the items contained in Wave 1.5 is estimated at over $600! Please note that none of these items are set in stone. If a problem crops up with one of these items, it may not make it into Wave 1.5. We also know now that Wave 1.5 will not have any Mission Packs or OtherWorld Expansions beyond Caverns of Cynder.
Will you re-open Wave 1.5 so I can purchase that option?

I think everyone will agree that this seems like a no-brainer - people get stuff earlier and are even willing to pay for shipping to do it! But, it's not that obvious a decision. We have learned some hard lessons during this KS experience - we had to hire on many temporary workers during Wave 1 and it still took months to get all the orders out. Shipping within the EU is filled with difficulties that we did not foresee. Also, Wave 1.5 will be different for every backer - some are Minecart, some are Outlaw, some added Trun or a Guardian or a Burrower, others did not. So, each order will be unique. Long story short, we are planning to add Wave 1.5 shipping for purchase in the Web Store in September for $50 within the USA and $125 International.

We are planning to ship Wave 1.5 from the USA and the cost will cover shipping and hiring staff to process orders. We are currently estimating that Wave 1.5 could start shipping out sometime in October and we will begin with international orders to even out travel time.

Painting Events

One of the best ways to trick out your Brimstone game is to paint the miniatures. We've seen some awesome painted minis over the last several months from KS Backers and other fans of the game. Many fans have emailed us to say that they never painted figures before Shadows of Brimstone and they are really enjoying it!

At Flying Frog, we have all been gaming with miniatures and painting them for most of our lives and it gives us great joy to share this experience with others. It's also one of the reasons that we are so proud to have our own Shadows of Brimstone Paint Sets - we carefully selected/created all of the colors to give a full range for painting the miniatures from the game and its expansions.

We are excited to announce two upcoming Shadows of Brimstone Painting Events so that fans have a chance to show off their cool painted minis from the game!

The first will be at Gen Con at the Flying Frog Booth on August 1st in Indianapolis, IN. Pro Painter, Aaron Lovejoy, will be back again this year to share tips and tricks and help judge the event at the booth. The second painting event will be online in October and fans can send in photos of their miniatures (more details later). The categories for both the Gen Con and Online Events include:

Single Brimstone Hero - One Shadows of Brimstone Hero on a base. It must be an official Shadows of Brimstone miniature, but may be modified to alter the pose or add details (different weapons, different head or hat, etc).
Single Brimstone Creature - One Shadows of Brimstone Enemy on a base. It must be an official Shadows of Brimstone miniature, but may be modified to alter the pose or add details (extra horns, fur, etc).
Brimstone Bounty - This is sort of a catch all category that could include multiple miniatures on one base or diorama, or a grouping of Heroes or Monsters. It must include at least one official Shadows of Brimstone miniature, but may be modified to alter the pose or add details.

Best models shown in each category may win prizes including Flying Frog games, miniatures, or promo items not available in stores.

Caverns of Cynder Preview

The first major expansion for Shadows of Brimstone is being manufactured right now! Caverns of Cynder is the first of the OtherWorld Expansions which introduce a new world to explore. In the two Core Sets, players are introduced to the swamp world of Jargono and the frozen ancient alien city of the Targa Plateau. Cynder is an entirely new world featuring vast underground tunnels and chambers with ancient platforms marking paths across boiling magma.

A fiery dimension of lava and ash, the burning Caverns of Cynder are home to many dark and ancient evils, imprisoned within! Rivers of molten rock flow and pool into lakes of fire, forging fiendish Lava Men to assault any who dare cross over into their world. But there are also treasures to be found, gold and priceless artifacts pulled from across space and time to fill the vaults of Cynder, and the pockets of any traveler bold enough to seek them out!

The Caverns of Cynder Expansion introduces a brand new OtherWorld for the Heroes to explore! This includes a full set of 18 new Map Tiles depicting the fiery Caverns of Cynder, with dangerous new Lava Spaces that can burn the Heroes, and crumbling crust that can fall away under your feet! These Map Tiles also have an all new set of unique Mine rooms on the reverse, bringing more variety and new Encounters to discover throughout the Mines. All of the cards needed for this searing lava world are included, such as Cynder Encounters, Artifacts, Map Cards, OtherWorld Threats, and more, as well as a host of new cards for adventuring in the Mines!

6 New Missions will challenge your Heroes, as they hunker down to Defend the Bridge against hordes of attacking creatures, or race to seal Cracks in Reality that have opened up, threatening to tear the world apart! But beware, this new world is overrun with a deadly new Enemy - Lava Men, emerging from the fiery depths to destroy all that would set foot into the Caverns of Cynder!

Last Call for the Get It Now Offer

In April, we created a special offer called the "Get It Now!" Pack. It made four new Shadows of Brimstone Card Supplements available to backers early for the cost of shipping. This was very popular and many people took advantage of the offer. We will be removing the "Get It Now" offer from the web store at the end of June. So, if you want to get the offer, don't wait. Here is the link to these items in the Web Store: http://flyingfrogproductions.mybigcommerce.com/ks-backer-special/

Summer is coming...

We are working on our plans for Gen Con next month and will have another update in July with new enemy previews and more info about the big show. Besides the Shadows of Brimstone Painting Event, we have some exciting previews and games planned, and some surprises in store! We hope to see many of you at the Flying Frog Booth at Gen Con!

Cheers,

Scott and Jason

Whoa!

**Siygess**

As much as I'd like to get more content for the game this year, $125 for shipping is loco. Oh well guess I will have to wait until Christmas 2016 or whenever wave 2 ships to see the rest of my stuff.

On the matter of the Caverns expansion, was it ever confirmed if backers would actually get the retail pack? I wouldn't normally ask this since retail usually happens at the same time or a little bit after KS delivery but are they honestly going to sit on thousands of bagged copies of Cynder (possibly with less content) for a year or more while they have stock of the retail boxes going through their warehouses to distributors?

**Bioptic**

It would be a bit of a kick in the teeth if they were showing us box artwork for a box that we were never going to get, certainly! I'd have hoped that it made more sense to produce all of the boxes in a big production run, and set some aside for backers and others for retail. But who can tell.

I will say that Christmas 2016 seems optimistic, based on their track record. It took them a full year from funding to produce the base games. It will have taken them another full year to have produced wave 1.5, which only has one of the bigger expansions and none of the smaller ones (Town excepted). The vast majority of expansion content still remains after this, and I can't see how they can get that out inside of a year. I am not best pleased.

**Forar**

I do hope that it's a retail copy as well. We got the core boxes in retail packaging, so hopefully that follows suit. Given that 1.5 seems to be things they intend to have at retail later this year, it'd make sense. I could see Wave 2, chalk full of things that might not hit stores until a year later or more being a bit prone to having plain cardboard packaging, especially if they start to fall behind (or due to lack of need, just slow down a bit) on the art assets.

Getting 5/10/15 retail boxes sorted out this year is one thing. Knocking out another 50+ in the following year seems less likely.

And yeah, that $125 for us international folks is definitely expensive, but is $25 more than last year really that much more a burden? For some it may well be (and with a hefty drop in the Canadian dollar, it's more like $35 Canadian extra), but it doesn't seem horrifically unreasonable to me. I mean, they could've chosen to just not offer the option up again. Surely a slightly more expensive version is better than not being able to join in at all?

**Siygess**

I suppose it comes down to whether or not the Wave 1.5 stuff is in retail packaging or not. If it is, I can see the shipping boxes being the same size, weighing less, but requiring a lot more time to pack. I'm happy paying $125 for that.

But if the Wave 1.5 stuff is mostly plastic baggies then I don't know how I feel about getting a box that is half the size and weight of my Wave 1 stuff, but costs 25% more

**Forar**

Yeah, and depending on the window of opportunity, it might not be a fully informed choice. Especially since I'm guessing we might get 1 or 2 more updates, depending on whether or not they have another lottery and need to update us on who is being called in, what'll be available, details on that stuff, etc.

Glancing at last year's updates, it seems they finalized the Gen Con pickup list about a week before the convention, and opened up for applications around 3 weeks prior. With less than 6 weeks until showtime, if it's going to happen I guess they'll want to start talking about it soon.

**warboss**

Yikes, that's a hefty shipping charge. Was the kickstarter initially planned as multiple waves with separate ala carte shipping to be paid by backers or did it organically screw up into that?

**Alpharius**

I can't be sure, but I think it all ended up growing wildly beyond expectations and planning to...what it is now.

I admit to forgetting about this one after the 2 core boxes shipped.

I was happy to hear that 'WAVE 1.5" would ship this...October, if you pay extra for it?

I'm...OK with that.

I'm more than a little concerned that "WAVE 2" (aka, "The Rest of The Stuff") has...no real projected ship date.

And there's a LOT of stuff that's in "WAVE 2".

And this one was originally scheduled to ship in August of 2014.

And it MIGHT ship complete in August of 2016 - if EVERYTHING goes right between now and then!

Forar - please correct me if any of those dates are (most likely) wrong!

**Forar**

I think you've just about got it there.

I believe they've said Wave 2's target is 2016, which is an awfully large target range, but they have an awfully large pile of gak to do, so unlike a certain project, I can understand wanting a big margin for error.

If it lands by the end of next year, great. If it pushes into 2017, I'm not going to be particularly shocked.

In that regard, I empathize with the MC backers, because at least us Outlaws can justify buying some expansions at retail. It's possible some more opportunities like those card packs will open up for mid wave mini-shipments, which could become very expensive, but more manageable in smaller chunks every so often.

I guess we'll see. While I'd love for them to drop updates more than once every 4-6 weeks, at least there's some meat on those bones when they do, and they are producing things (core boxes did get made roughly on time, even though shipping wasn't exactly speedy, we have seen prototypes of other stuff that seems to be on par for being ready in the next few months, etc).

**Bioptic**

It's odd - I've actually defended Mantic in the past for shipping models in little bags rather than the obscenely large and nice CMON boxes (where there is more plastic and weight in the packaging than in the models), but I'm getting rather bummed out by the prospect of all of this Shadows stuff arriving in one big pile of loose sprues.

They've already revealed that some retail versions of the various expansion will come with extra content (the doorways set comes with an additional deck of cards not included in the original Kickstarter or the Minecart pledge).

Outside of Kickstarter, I'm seriously wondering who the target market for this is. They decided to go for hard plastic presumably so that mass production would be cheaper, but aside from quality issues this means that the product primarily appeals to:

- those looking to spend around $1000-$1500 on a boardgame.
- those looking to spend $30-$50 at a time on a few extra monsters for their dungeon crawl.
- those completely happy with clipping and assembling their boardgaming models.

I might well be wrong though, and once a few expansions hit the game might be meaty enough to enjoy huge success. I suppose that's the mildly insane thing about Kickstarter though - you can end up creating reams and reams of expansion content for a base game that people might not enjoy or might not sell well.

**ced1106**

Another possibility is that they release another version, say another core set that has pre-assembled miniatures. That's what Super Dungeon Explore: Forgotten Kings did. I also noticed two 3rd edition boardgames on KS in the last two days, of games that haven't been out for more than two years or something. SoB is *really* popular on BGG, so maybe they'll steer the product line towards boardgamers.

Have they shown an improvement in the miniatures?

**Alpharius**

Bioptic wrote:

Outside of Kickstarter, I'm seriously wondering who the target market for this is.

You know, I've never really thought about that since I went in at "Minecart" here - but that is a really, really good question!

I also didn't remember the announcement that this thing wouldn't deliver complete until August of 2016.

Sheesh.

**Forar**

They didn't give an exact target, but they did note near the end of the campaign (or shortly after it ended) that this was literally years worth of content being lined up.

And yes, their initial estimates were significantly shorter originally (1.5 early this year, 2 around the end of this year), but at least they are updating us.

It won't sate everyone, I know, but it's not like they doubled down the day after the campaign finished exploding and suggested it might be done early. >.>

Sheesh RRT really has driven my expectations down.