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Haha, wish I had kids, ''one day you will clean, build, green stuff paint and base these minis because I don't want to''

Looks like MM has a bunch of the new releases, including the slugs that weren't part of the KS. Nice discount too. Get them while you can!

Slugs and Vermin are sold out at MM, but there's stock (allegedly) available at CoolStuffInc, seem to have a similar (or the same, I only glanced at both pages) discount.

They reached uk stores here at the end of last week as well but appear to have sold out very quickly (I ordered some online which have just arrived today). Not had a chance to open and check quality yet.

I know I've asked this before but...

...what are the proposed, allegedly, not-set-in-stone ship dates for Waves 1.5 and 2.0?

Hopefully 2.0 is actually scheduled for 2016...

Once I saw MM had 5 new sets in stock, I couldnt help but be reminded of how terrible Flying Frog is. Everyone I know has sworn after they get 1.5 and 2.0 (which could be never as it seems) they will never buy their products again. Terrible terrible company

1.5 was last noted to hopefully go out mid January. I'm hoping they announce boxes going out soon, but given that the hold up was with their printer (from what I've read), if that stuff isn't ready, it's not ready. They were thinking of air-freighting some stuff to get started soon, but that info is a bit old now.

2.0 was last aimed at for later (the end of?) this year, but again, not holding my breath just yet. Whatever they might say or imply, I think our litmus test will be what they have available at Gencon this year. They've got, what, 3 otherworlds to do, along with 5 Mission Packs and a good number of remaining figures (heroes and monsters and alternate versions) to go. How much they have good to go by mid year should at least give us (and them) a better ballpark to work from.

I'm cautiously optimistic, but I won't at all be shocked if wave 2 drifts further. Just hopefully not too far.

str00dles1 wrote:
Everyone I know has sworn after they get 1.5 and 2.0 (which could be never as it seems)

Them producing things they're working on is evidence that we might never actually get them?

That is... an opinion alright.

Believe me, I wish we didn't have to wait 3 or 4 years for delivery in full, but if you want to see a project that *actually* might not deliver wave 2, go look into Robotech Tactics.

That is an absolute gakshow.

 Forar wrote:

str00dles1 wrote:
Everyone I know has sworn after they get 1.5 and 2.0 (which could be never as it seems)

Them producing things they're working on is evidence that we might never actually get them?

That is... an opinion alright.

Believe me, I wish we didn't have to wait 3 or 4 years for delivery in full, but if you want to see a project that *actually* might not deliver wave 2, go look into Robotech Tactics.

Yeah, while I'm peeved at how long this is taking, I'm not concerned about them never delivering it.

Not sure how one would arrive at that conclusion...

Which one are we peeved at though- Robotech or Brimstone?

Apples and oranges there...

Part of me wishes I'd paid for 1.5, but then the practical side of me doesn't feel like spending more money on what is probably the single most expensive gaming purchase I've subjected myself to.

(Kingdom Death doesn't count as I piecemealed that, adding a bit at a time, whereas that minecart was one giant payment.)

Seriously?

Is it even a contest?!?

Or do you still believe that PB is really 98% done on everything and a 'Wave 2 is Done!' announcement is imminent

Time sure flies when you semi-forget about something, then realize it was 3.5 years ago that you originally paid for it.

I'll admit, I really didn't think that it would take this long for Brimstone to arrive. I really hope the rest is ready this year, but I'm kinda doubtful...

With the benefit of hindsight, even I do wish they'd reigned in the campaign. It may have seemed like a good idea on paper, but I think if instead they'd just gone for the 2 core boxes, maybe Cynder and a couple of other bits, and then run another campaign after those delivered to expand the setting/product line, it might've gone over better.

Scope creep is absolutely a problem here.

That said, and I apologize for the pedantry, but the campaign funded in November 2013, and it's January 2016. That's not 3.5 years, it's barely over 2. Like, we're not even fully at 26 months yet.

By the time we get wave 2 it may be at 3 or 3.5 years (or more, much as I hope it won't be), but we should be annoyed/frustrated over things they've actually done. :-P

it's weird to me that KS backers are still waiting for their stuff, but I have been playing and enjoying both core sets, Caverns of Cinder and now I'm just waiting for MM to restock so I can order these latest expansions.

Granted, all told this cost WAY more than if KS backers paid, and you get the Outlaw class to boot!

To be fair, even us KS Backers have been enjoying the Core Sets for some time now.

And it was only...1 year and a few months late?

Of course, this KS grew out of control, and 'the rest of the stuff' will most likely end up being...2 to 3 years 'late'!

Also, SoB was FFP's "First Created" project. So, if you went in, you should expect more risk than a typical KS, at least one by a similarly experienced company. SoB finished November, 2013, and Cthulhu Wars, another "First Created" project with massive amounts of miniatures (albeit by a new company), finished July 2013 -- that's five months earlier -- and only just finished shipping and completing its project. Maybe MegaCon Game's first Myth KS (April 2013 to October 2014), which had its share of problems, might be another project to compare with SoB.

Yesterday's update added a few new bits of info to the mix.

1) In order to get much better quality in the characters, they are switching those from plastic to resin. As you can imagine, this is causing a lot of moaning over on KS from the boardgame crowd. Personally I'm over the moon with this move. Some prototype resins can be seen on BGG

2) The delay in the Town set arriving let them get the dice and darkstone shards all finished and hopefully a lot of the resin characters too. Apparently wave 1.5 should be starting to ship either he end of this month, or the start of February. First parcels will be going to Oz to make up for them being last in the first wave.

3) Trederra is the next Otherworld box



Sadly still no estimations for Wave 2, but at least I get to play with the newer expansions as my new gaming group are buying them as they get released until my Minecart arrives with everything they don't own. We played Cinder last night and damn, those cinder ghosts are hard... 5 defense, can only take one damage per hit!

Resin heroes makes me VERY happy!

Do we know any more details as far as they're concerned?

Yes, resin heroes is a great thing. I'd be happy with all resin minis!

 Alpharius wrote:
Do we know any more details as far as they're concerned?

Not really. Yesterday's update is the only official mention of the resin figures and all they said was that it was to ensure a finer level of detail in the final figures.

 Alpharius wrote:
To be fair, even us KS Backers have been enjoying the Core Sets for some time now.

And it was only...1 year and a few months late?

*more pedantry ahead*

Shipping of wave one started a few months after their original August 2014 target, as I recall. I think I got mine in November or early December. The whole project will definitely accrue at least 2 years on the "beyond original estimate scoreboard", but they were pretty close for the cores alone (not that the campaign remained at 'just the core boxes' for long).

*end pedantry*

I have the least experience with resin, and admit some concerns about bubbles and fragility, but the great thing about the game is that the hero figures aren't *required* (as in, I can use the Preacher as a Lawman all I want). I use my metal and plastic Malifaux figures alongside FFP's own plastic (and eventually resin) ones. It might prove to be a consideration for transportation, but in that case if I'm bringing the game somewhere (which currently doesn't happen), I'll just leave resin ones behind. They've said the monsters will still be in plastic.

I also went and updated my visual representation of the completed (out at retail or available in wave 1.5) products. The alt sculpts, dice, and Darkstone do indeed make me happy.

At a glance, things that remain a Work In Progress includes:

- 9 card packs (mostly encounters)
- 6 Allies (Blacksmith, Mule, Faithful Dog, 3 Henchmen)
- 6 Mission Packs
- 6 Hero classes (Male and Female versions)
- 3 Other Worlds
- 10 enemy sets (ranging from packs of multiples to titanic single foes)
- Odds and ends (Mine Terrain)

We know one Otherworld is shaping up now (announced ~6 months before they announced Cynder last year), and they've touched on the Mission Packs, which as of Gencon last year they were still sorting out the exact particulars of. Hopefully by Gencon we'll see at least 1 OW and several MPs, or 2(+?!) OW's and a MP or two (or more) ready to go.

I'm not hedging any bets on them wrapping all that up in the next 11 months (let alone less), but Gencon will, as previously noted, remain our litmus test.

Thanks for the image update. Looking at all those items, the minecart wave 2 box is going to be MASSIVE!

 endtransmission wrote:
Thanks for the image update. Looking at all those items, the minecart wave 2 box is going to be MASSIVE!

Yeah, what I got at Gencon (Cynder, a half dozen enemy boxes) took up a considerable box all on its own. Adding all those other enemy/hero boxes, 3 more otherworlds, frontier town (which seems to be a Cynder sized box in itself) and the mission packs, a non-1.5 wave 2 (the full deal aside from the 2 cores, in other words) is going to be... massive.

Speaking of 1.5, they released another update, a short one to showcase the new resin figures.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5PUbOnzFC0&feature=youtu.be

I enjoy the contrast between here (generally supportive of the move to resin) versus the KS comments themselves (where I've felt like I had to talk a few people off ledges).

Edit: Speaking of wave 2, I wonder how diverse the Outlaw backers were with their add ons? Seems to me like FFP isn't too far from having everything done for the base Outlaw tier, so depending on what add ons Outlaws got, I could see pointedly finishing that stuff up and being able to ship those out at least. Depending on how many people swapped from Outlaw to Mine Cart or picked up one in the pledge manager, that could be half of the backers right there.

Of course, it'd also lead to 'omg mine carts paid you the most and we get last shipping, this is a Slap In The Face, FFP is dead to me' style commentary, I'm sure.

 Forar wrote:
With the benefit of hindsight, even I do wish they'd reigned in the campaign. It may have seemed like a good idea on paper, but I think if instead they'd just gone for the 2 core boxes, maybe Cynder and a couple of other bits, and then run another campaign after those delivered to expand the setting/product line, it might've gone over better.

Scope creep is absolutely a problem here.

That said, and I apologize for the pedantry, but the campaign funded in November 2013, and it's January 2016. That's not 3.5 years, it's barely over 2. Like, we're not even fully at 26 months yet.

By the time we get wave 2 it may be at 3 or 3.5 years (or more, much as I hope it won't be), but we should be annoyed/frustrated over things they've actually done. :-P

Heh, this "pedantry" is actually appreciated! I feel a bit better knowing that it's only been barely over 2 years since pledging.

The resin heroes is definitely an interesting choice. On one hand, better quality minis are always appreciated. On the other hand, the continued talk of "this is so expensive!" in the backer emails is off-putting.

I've been loving the plastic tentacles I was able to order from Flying Frog.

Nomeny wrote:
I've been loving the plastic tentacles I was able to order from Flying Frog.

Ah....OK.

Heh!

 Alpharius wrote:

Nomeny wrote:
I've been loving the plastic tentacles I was able to order from Flying Frog.

Ah....OK.

Heh!

Hahaha; oh anime....

 endtransmission wrote:
1) In order to get much better quality in the characters, they are switching those from plastic to resin. As you can imagine, this is causing a lot of moaning over on KS from the boardgame crowd. Personally I'm over the moon with this move. Some prototype resins can be seen on BGG

They're "moaning" because of resin's reputation as being fragile, and air bubbles (eg. Finecast). Will the resin replace the plastic figures, or be an additional line?

EDIT: I saw the video, so will be "cautiously optimistic". I've seen plastic retail miniatures which were nowhere as good as the sample ones, and resin's harder to cast than plastic. Not that I have any choice but I'll wait for the reviews of the retail product. Hope this works!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5PUbOnzFC0&feature=youtu.be

 Alpharius wrote:

Yeah, while I'm peeved at how long this is taking, I'm not concerned about them never delivering it.

I'm quite concerned about them taking so long to actually deliver Wave 2 that the local laws will change regarding import duties. Currently set for mid-2017.


I'd also be concerned with their ability to deliver quality resin models in the numbers they'll need to to fulfil pledges. Seems like another time-delay minefield sold on the backs of some probably nice "samples of quality" models FFG may have been shown.

Well, those are certainly very real and valid concerns, of course.

This game might be the poster boy for the 'grew out of control' campaign.

If we get resin miniatures that are of the quality shown in that video linked earlier though, well that will be a good thing. But yes, if that's in house - or even contracted - well, this may very well mean more...delays.

 Alpharius wrote:

Nomeny wrote:
I've been loving the plastic tentacles I was able to order from Flying Frog.

Ah....OK.

Heh!

Would than not be "Hentai!"?

T