Ok, can we actually not, please?

Take it to a different, non-news and rumour thread and stop gaking up this one. Thanks!

 Snrub wrote:
Ok, can we actually not, please?

Take it to a different, non-news and rumour thread and stop gaking up this one. Thanks!

Seconded, thirded, and possibly even fourthed. Take the arguments elsewhere, peeps.

I endorse that idea. Take it to its own thread.

MTO up next week:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/02/05/sunday-preview-skirmish-games-reign-supreme/?utm_source=CUSTOMERS&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=WHP_5th_February_Preview_&utm_content=&utm_term=

Of course it comes the same week as the new Warcry box. A month of nothing and then it all comes at the same time

This has got me wondering, is that Gandalf on Shadowfax the original version with the horse split in two parts or the updated version where only the legs are separate? I already have two copies of that particular model but both of mine are the former version. My near-obsessive desire to have every model made for MESBG has got my considering whether I gamble on a 3rd. I do need that foot version of that Gandalf, as the one I have is other version where he's not standing on the rock, so getting it wouldn't be a total waste.

Hmmm. Guess it'll come down to how much it is $-wise.

Is there any expected timescale for pre-orders/release date on the new Osgiliath terrain? Specifically the unruined building and tower rather than the ruins that come in the starter set.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/01/06/recreating-the-ruined-city-of-osgiliath-with-awesome-new-terrain/

It was previewed on WarCom on the 6th of January but hasn't gone up a month later, I'm curious if there's any pattern to their previews regarding release dates. I.e. usually X weeks/months after showing them off?

Cheers
Chris

Usually it's anywhere up to three months after being shown. So could be up until march. I'd expect it to come with a separate release for gothmog faramir.

Preorders are up for the MTO stuff. Surprisingly the prices aren't completely off the wall (for GW anyways). The metal Fell Beast is the same price as the plastic one, which for some reason really surprises me. I might just have to pick one up. Not sure what else I need from this MTO though.

Wow those prices are totally not extreme.

Nazgul is only a fiver more then the plastic version, and includes Frodo. The Warg Riders are the only ones with a price increase on last time, and they've gone up from $55AUD to $70. Guess I'll probably not grab another set for now. Might nab some rangers though instead.

The prices are reasonable in relation to GW's other game systems.

I am picking up Gimli chills' and the 3 hobbits chilling by the fire.

Faramir and Gothmog seperate releases next week:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/03/05/sunday-preview-vashtorr-besieges-the-rock/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sunday-preview&utm_content=sunday-preview&fbclid=IwAR132cqRKgtrBJKZeP1DcxNTf0Y9wB-NDMpgOmBEqwNJmMK4zmZdCxZNsG4

Surprised they didn't drop the tower and buildings at the same time.

Awesome, I've been waiting for Gothmog.

Finally!

Nice Gothmog is on my wishlist...

Price rices on MESBG are pretty tough. Standard Boxes going from 35€ to 40€ is an over 14% price increase. Didnt they say something about 6%?

HeIlsing wrote:
Price rices on MESBG are pretty tough. Standard Boxes going from 35€ to 40€ is an over 14% price increase. Didnt they say something about 6%?

Average increase is 6%, with items actually going up 10-15%

Snuck that one in on us didn't they?

When was the last price rise?

Last year, announced in February 2022. They now increase the prices once a year.

Last year they did massive prince increases on the mesbg range too. Like 10-20% increase on most stuff. If only plastic + FW was increased this time around it would have been fine. But they did like 10% on most resin and metal this year again so a lot of the range have had a 20-30% increase in just 2 years.

Funnily enough mesbg FW prices are increasing slower than the failcast prices so the new FW Glorfindel sits between models like Elessar and Bard in price. Most of the 2-3 character packs from FW is now less than 10% away in price from the equivalent failcast packs.

They get away with that 6% average by releasing so many new items with the already increased price and then figuring that item into the total number that had a 0% price rise. Also I think last time paint went up it did so separately from the models, so all those skus of paint also count as a 0% increase item. That way you can bump up all the other items 15%. Sneaky Gits

Johanxp wrote:
Last year, announced in February 2022. They now increase the prices once a year.

Ouch. That's not great for enouraging the game, especially with most of the models not being available most of the time.

AAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! MOTHER fething HALBARAD!


https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/03/16/middle-earth-made-to-order-rangers-of-the-north-clash-with-mordor-orcs/

Only really the grey company piques my interest this time (on account of having everything else). But i always had trouble justifying them when the Dunedein modles already existed.

I've not got Halbarad, the grey company or the Kings of Men, but I'm happy to let the kings pass by this time around. They're common enough that you can pick them up for reasonable prices.
Depending on how much I've got in the slush fund at the time, I might grab another set of the orcs too. Absolutely charming models and excellent to paint. I'm also interested to see how much they ask for the witch-king. I managed to nab one for $75 dollars off a local fella about a year ago. I suspect it'll be the same price as the other metal nazgul from the last MtO.

Don't they still sell plastic versions of quite a few of those?

Ehh in a round about way. The orcs all come in the bog standard plastic kit. There is a plastic cave troll, but they don't sell it currently for some odd reason. There is also the plastic nazgul on fell beast that makes a regular ringwraith and the witch-king.
And while it's not a direct kit, you could certainly proxy the plastic rangers as the grey company/rangers of the north.

Wasn't the plastic Cave Troll on a shared sprue, as part of the Mines of Moria box or something?

Not sure about how it came in the Mines box, but the Balins Tomb game they did a year our two back, it came on a single sprue by itself.

Well, all I know is Grey Company and Halbarad for meeeeeeee!

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Don't they still sell plastic versions of quite a few of those?

Yeah, but the point of these is to give people a chance to get hold of alternative sculpts that they won't keep in stock because they have a current plastic kit.

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Don't they still sell plastic versions of quite a few of those?

Yeah, but the point of these is to give people a chance to get hold of alternative sculpts that they won't keep in stock because they have a current plastic kit.

Also, the metal orcs still hold up 20 years later and are probably some of my favourite miniatures of all times. Their plastic counterparts... Not so much.

Can't belive it. They keep on propose old, very old models, and I still find something I need to buy, every time.

 Snrub wrote:
I suspect it'll be the same price as the other metal nazgul from the last MtO.

The last MtO was before the price increase.

Does the plastic Cave Troll have the different weapon options?

Santtu wrote:The last MtO was before the price increase.

A fair point. We'll soon see how said price rise affects their MtO.

Baragash wrote:Does the plastic Cave Troll have the different weapon options?

Yep, certainly does.

Does anyone know when their new scenery GW previewed a few weeks (Months?) ago is going to come out? That tower in particular was really nice looking.

Inside GW yes, outside GW no

Think I will most likely pick up some of the metal orcs, to mix things up a bit

Maybe Halbarad, though I do already have one of the other version somewhere in a box...

Terrain release next week at last

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/03/26/sunday-preview-house-cawdor-enter-the-necromundan-civil-war-on-majestic-legs-of-iron/?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sunday-preview&utm_content=sundayp26032023

Jesus Dave, you got there fast

yeah the link goes up on Twitter before the main site so I check there instead.

Prices will determine how many kits I get as these are generic enough to work with a lot of settings.

Any knowledge if these will be general release or direct only like Gothmog and Faramir? Kinda want two of the towers.

No idea until the price list releases in the morning.

The community page is not clear if these buildings are sold separate or a box deal.

I was really hoping for a box deal like the Rohan terrain and Dol Guldor set. Its very doubtful, but there's still hope.

zombie_sky_diver wrote:
The community page is not clear if these buildings are sold separate or a box deal.

I was really hoping for a box deal like the Rohan terrain and Dol Guldor set. Its very doubtful, but there's still hope.

The YouTube video shows each to have its own box packaging.

zombie_sky_diver wrote:
The community page is not clear if these buildings are sold separate or a box deal.

I was really hoping for a box deal like the Rohan terrain and Dol Guldor set. Its very doubtful, but there's still hope.

I'm sure they'll do a big box of them at some point, the other terrain pieces weren't initially sold that way.

 Commitz wrote:

zombie_sky_diver wrote:
The community page is not clear if these buildings are sold separate or a box deal.

I was really hoping for a box deal like the Rohan terrain and Dol Guldor set. Its very doubtful, but there's still hope.

I'm sure they'll do a big box of them at some point, the other terrain pieces weren't initially sold that way.

My recollection is that the Rohan Stronghold came out first and then the individual boxes came out a few months later. That would have been preferable here.

I remember the Rohan bundle terrain box coming out first as well, individual sets followed. As for Dol Guldor, I believe it was the opposite. But that was also a single kit, just repeated in a bundle of 6.

Dif they dont do the bundle deal, depending on the price, I might just hold out and see if it comes at a later date.

Individual boxes only but they are on the price list so general release. About what I expected given current pricing.

Thanks Dave. Was actually expecting around 50 for the tower, so that's a nice surprise. Two towers it is then.

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
Thanks Dave. Was actually expecting around 50 for the tower, so that's a nice surprise. Two towers it is then.

That seems oddly appropriate, when you think about it.

The terrain is even more versatile than it first looks - roofs in particular

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/03/31/how-to-make-the-most-of-the-gondor-terrain-for-the-middle-earth-strategy-battle-game/

Holy crap that stuff is cleverly designed.

Mr. Dranfield, please come back to 40k. I mean these are cool and all, but they have no modularity. We need your engineered excellence back in 40k!

Holy gak. Absolutely frothing to get my hands on some of this.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Holy crap that stuff is cleverly designed.

Mr. Dranfield, please come back to 40k. I mean these are cool and all, but they have no modularity. We need your engineered excellence back in 40k!

He can stay where he is thank you very much. 40K already gets the lions share of stuff.

Wow, that terrain kit looks AMAZING... and prohibitively expensive... *sigh*

That's some really nice design work there. May every game get terrain of that quality.

Wow, that's awesome!

Wow, that is nice design. It looks like the original designs for the movies (i.e. nice architecture), it is plastic and it looks functional for wargaming.

Gondor terrain kids are on the Australian webstore now for pre-order.

Australian prices:

Settlement $418 (1x Mansion, 1x Tower and 2x Ruins)
Mansion $140
Tower $110
Ruins $84 (same as the old Osgiliath Ruins)

Like most GW prices these days they're beyond my (very modest) budget range, especially in multiples, which is a shame as they look like amazing kits.

Got myself two of the towers. At 20% discount they're a good enough price. Hope it comes out with a big terrain box at Christmas like Rohan did.

 DaveC wrote:
The terrain is even more versatile than it first looks - roofs in particular

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/03/31/how-to-make-the-most-of-the-gondor-terrain-for-the-middle-earth-strategy-battle-game/

That is stunning.

I feel like GW missed a trick by not putting these pictures or at least a link to this from the store page.

Love these kits, but they are prohibitively high cost. Oh well, back to 3d printing larger gondor buildings for a quarter the price.
Too bad, because they are wonderfully designed.

^ Yeah, they're nice and all but generic Osgiliath-style buildings and ruins have already been sculpted multiple times over in various different forms and the price of one building can buy you enough PLA to print a whole table of them. I've seen the GW sprues and they strike me as a little small, even compared to the older ruins of osgiliath kit which hit the sweet spot and worked great for 28-32mm scale as well as LotR.

And the 3d printed stuff typically has a detailed playable detailed interior, magnetized or clip-connected pieces to take them apart, remove ceilings etc, whereas the GW tower is a simple hollow shell.

Don't have to spend ages clipping off sprue, mould line removal, assembly etc. either.

Yeah that's nice and all, but i like the idea of having a completely modular board and not just the same print over and over and over again.

On the heels of the scenery, here comes the MTO:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/04/02/sunday-preview-death-conquers-the-mortal-realms/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sunday-preview&utm_content=sundaypreview02042023&fbclid=IwAR1YgLzC9JtM94Y8NqqgB58ntVHyLfpZuh5_lOMAl-vN4PY1xU35eP9ORmI

Yeah, i think it will be a few Grey Company for me. For collectors sake.

I am tempted to pick Witch-king on Fell Beast but I haven't even received the previous Fell Beast yet...

After the Steel Legion M2O, maybe wait for the prices before setting yourself up for sticker shock...

They were perfectly fine last time, (which wasn't that long ago) even a good price in the case of things like the rangers blisters. I have little reason to assume differently this time.

jullevi wrote:
I am tempted to pick Witch-king on Fell Beast but I haven't even received the previous Fell Beast yet...

Same here, this is the longest I've ever waited for a made to order. The fell beast was only £40, even if the witch king version is £50 its a good price and given It's a different pose and the only fell beast I don't have will definitely pick one up.

I just checked because I wanted to grab some of them, but dear god, 70€ for the 14 metal Orcs.

I want to say it's the same as it was last time. But it's all down to the collector more than anything. If you try and buy the whole set third party, you'll probably pay double that, minimum. Assuming of couse you can find all the different poses.

So it's whether you really want them or not. Alterantively, because they're all unique compared to the plastics, you could treat every one of them as a captain. And you'll never need another captain model again.

They sold in the USA for $65 last time. They are now $90. Major increase in price, for all of these.

Bought the cave troll I wanted second hand for cheaper. The metal orc archers are too expensive as well.

Well I did intend on buying a few boxes of those Orcs... like... 4-5 boxes. But at thay price, I'm not getting any now..

I guess whoever was in charge of the recent Armageddon Steel Legion MTO got to make the pricing for this one, because those prices are just as unreasonable as the ones for that. I already wasn't planning on getting anything, but this cemented it. I had halfheartedly considered picking up Halbarad, Elladan and Elrohir, and some of the Rangers, but not at those prices.

The Dunlending Warrior Warband is £55 for 14 metal guys, so the price wasn't a shock - but that just meant I knew I was priced out early.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Holy crap that stuff is cleverly designed.

Mr. Dranfield, please come back to 40k. I mean these are cool and all, but they have no modularity. We need your engineered excellence back in 40k!

Meh. Kinda disagree. Sure the main panels can join at about 17 different angles, but each one requires a unique capping piece to plug the ensuing gaps. No matter what you do you'll have a bag of useless plugs at the end and you probably still won't be able to do as many of a particular join type as you want because each cap comes in a finite quantity.

Witch King used to be the same price as Land Raider, so it's actually cheaper than I expected.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Holy crap that stuff is cleverly designed.

Mr. Dranfield, please come back to 40k. I mean these are cool and all, but they have no modularity. We need your engineered excellence back in 40k!

Meh. Kinda disagree. Sure the main panels can join at about 17 different angles, but each one requires a unique capping piece to plug the ensuing gaps. No matter what you do you'll have a bag of useless plugs at the end and you probably still won't be able to do as many of a particular join type as you want because each cap comes in a finite quantity.

They are very nicely designed and offer more variety in build options than anything barring scratchbuilding. There's only so much you can do to make something modular unless you turn it into some sort of brick-building system. Only stickler for me is that they cost a ton for the amount of terrain you'd want to really get the creative juices flowing so I'm sticking with my osgiliath ruins.

Hm, looks like that "fake" scenery piece that appeared on ebay wasn't so fake after all:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/04/13/middle-earth-faction-focus-isengard/

Nice. Don't want to think about how much they'll charge for it, but nice!

Bah, I was waiting for Easterling's drakes...

Johanxp wrote:
Bah, I was waiting for Easterling's drakes...

I hope I'm wrong but I have a gut feeling we will never see models for them. It wouldn't be the first time for the Middle Earth range.

If they planned on models for them we would have seen them by now I'm sure.

Nah, that's not how they work. They enjoy future proofing stuff.

zombie_sky_diver wrote:

Johanxp wrote:
Bah, I was waiting for Easterling's drakes...

I hope I'm wrong but I have a gut feeling we will never see models for them. It wouldn't be the first time for the Middle Earth range.

If they planned on models for them we would have seen them by now I'm sure.

Nah, if true we would never have seen Quickbeam for example.

What to expect for the next Warhammer Fest? A new supplement at last? New plastic character?

Johanxp wrote:

zombie_sky_diver wrote:

Johanxp wrote:
Bah, I was waiting for Easterling's drakes...

I hope I'm wrong but I have a gut feeling we will never see models for them. It wouldn't be the first time for the Middle Earth range.

If they planned on models for them we would have seen them by now I'm sure.

Nah, if true we would never have seen Quickbeam for example.

If I recall correctly, there are few things that got rules but never got models (so far), Azog's tower and the Catapult troll come to mind. Anything else? (And I'm talking current version of the game, don't start old "Legions of middle earth" talks. )

Isildurs brother is mentioned in the rules but has no profile nor model.

The other named Ent is without a model.

The Siege Troll from the Hobbit comes to mind. Rules with no model. That was so long ago it will never happen at this point.

My gut tells me Warhammer Fest will have something to do with the Elves. We last seen Glorfindel and Eldrond. The last video they did they spoke of Gilgalad almost as if it was already know. But just speculation. It wouldn't surprise me if they finally got to the Last Alliance Era considering the Rings of Power so. Yes, no relation, but why wouldn't GW try to piggy back off it.

Scenery preorder next week.

Hoping for Lothlorien Plastic Characters. No horses needed, so could do Galadriel, Celeborn and Haldir set much like the 3 hunters

Plastic Galadriel, Celebor and mirror makes senss. Would also "unlock" a lothlorien battleforce

See on one hand Lothlorien makes sense, as they could do a Battle for Lorien supplement to go along side the Defence of the North and round out the end of the War of the Ring. That would then allow them to move on to other time periods. The fact they did new Galadhrim Court Guard and dropped Orophin and Rumil would lend credence to this being the case.

But then they redid Elrond in glorious plastic and heavily hinted that Gil-galad was on his way. So maybe we'll see more Last Alliance stuff. Either way, Elves would seem a safe bet.

Johanxp wrote:
Scenery preorder next week.

What scenery?

 CptJake wrote:

Johanxp wrote:
Scenery preorder next week.

What scenery?

The statue head from Amon Hen.

I can see a Lothlorien thing. It would be nice to have a plastic kit of Galadriel and Celeborn in both their armour/war forms and the more standard robed versions.

Porting this over here for people who didn't catch it.

"Get of the Road" diorama.



Fantastic diorama, and I think one of the more iconic scenes from the first movie.
It looked great in the stream, which the quality of wasn't great, but on a closer inspection with high res pics, i'm less impressed then I initially was.
The hobbit faces are really off. They've been able to sculpt brilliant faces in the past that match to the actors near perfectly. But Frodo here looks positively corpse-like and Merry is quite gaunt and not at all his round faced self. Admittedly a lot of that could come down to the paint job.
Something to me is just off about the wraiths horse though. Maybe it's the colour disconnect around the head just doesn't work for me. I dunno. I'll reserve final judgement once I see other paints do their own renditions.


So much for my predictions about Last Alliance elves and another supplement!

 Snrub wrote:
Porting this over here for people who didn't catch it.

"Get of the Road" diorama.



Fantastic diorama, and I think one of the more iconic scenes from the first movie.
It looked great in the stream, which the quality of wasn't great, but on a closer inspection with high res pics, i'm less impressed then I initially was.
The hobbit faces are really off. They've been able to sculpt brilliant faces in the past that match to the actors near perfectly. But Frodo here looks positively corpse-like and Merry is quite gaunt and not at all his round faced self. Admittedly a lot of that could come down to the paint job.
Something to me is just off about the wraiths horse though. Maybe it's the colour disconnect around the head just doesn't work for me. I dunno. I'll reserve final judgement once I see other paints do their own renditions.


So much for my predictions about Last Alliance elves and another supplement!

I think it's a cool idea for a diorama overall, and I don't outright dislike it, but something really seems off about several parts of it. The Hobbit faces aren't great but that's something that does vary, but both the horse and the tree just don't look right for some reason. It could just be the paint scheme but it gives me a sort of "hyperealistic uncanny valley" feel rather than looking natural.

Why did they even bother putting LotR on the schedule. "We're here to tell you we can't tell you anything" somehow managed to be worse than nothing.

 Snrub wrote:

Something to me is just off about the wraiths horse though.

Well, it's brown, when it should be black, or near black.

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

 Snrub wrote:
Porting this over here for people who didn't catch it.

"Get of the Road" diorama.



Fantastic diorama, and I think one of the more iconic scenes from the first movie.
It looked great in the stream, which the quality of wasn't great, but on a closer inspection with high res pics, i'm less impressed then I initially was.
The hobbit faces are really off. They've been able to sculpt brilliant faces in the past that match to the actors near perfectly. But Frodo here looks positively corpse-like and Merry is quite gaunt and not at all his round faced self. Admittedly a lot of that could come down to the paint job.
Something to me is just off about the wraiths horse though. Maybe it's the colour disconnect around the head just doesn't work for me. I dunno. I'll reserve final judgement once I see other paints do their own renditions.


So much for my predictions about Last Alliance elves and another supplement!

I think it's a cool idea for a diorama overall, and I don't outright dislike it, but something really seems off about several parts of it. The Hobbit faces aren't great but that's something that does vary, but both the horse and the tree just don't look right for some reason. It could just be the paint scheme but it gives me a sort of "hyperealistic uncanny valley" feel rather than looking natural.

IMHO it hits that look because unlike in the movie scene, there's no unifiying lighting of the whole scene that blends the stark contrast between the dead tree and the bright green ferns and plants into a more muted, consistent colour palette. Basically, you can see that it was painted part by part and is not one, unified scene but just a random jumble of disjunct things.




In the first picture, you can see that there is effectively some 'patina' covering the whole shot that makes it all blend; the second shot is somehow digitally upscaled and re-brightened for 4k, and you can see that it starts to go in the same 'uncanny valley' direction because it just seems a bit unnatural because the brights are to bright to look realistic.

Another problem with the diorama is that its lighting seems inconsistent, because the tree is highlighted normally, but the hobbits look like they have a light source straight in front of them due to the background being dark-ish and their colours all being pretty bright in contrast. This gives the overall model a confusing look, as if there were two bright light sources, one normal and one spot-lighting the hobbits, which messes with your depth perception etc.

I think the tree has just been painted weirdly to stop it from blending in with the earth too much, that's an easy customer-side fix.

Hopefully the hobbit faces are again just a matter of the paintjob

I've been finding that Forge World just can't seem to sculpt horses properly. Someone on the team definitely can (Asfaloth), but by and large their attempts just come across as too bulbous and cartoony. It's particularly jarring here because it throws off the lanky and withered concept of the ringwraiths

As much as I love the classic Middle-Earth vignettes, I'm not sure they're up to it anymore. What's acceptable for tabletop gaming pieces, even at a premium, becomes much harder to tolerate on explicit display pieces with the sole purpose of looking good.

Tsagualsa wrote:

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

 Snrub wrote:
Porting this over here for people who didn't catch it.

"Get of the Road" diorama.



Fantastic diorama, and I think one of the more iconic scenes from the first movie.
It looked great in the stream, which the quality of wasn't great, but on a closer inspection with high res pics, i'm less impressed then I initially was.
The hobbit faces are really off. They've been able to sculpt brilliant faces in the past that match to the actors near perfectly. But Frodo here looks positively corpse-like and Merry is quite gaunt and not at all his round faced self. Admittedly a lot of that could come down to the paint job.
Something to me is just off about the wraiths horse though. Maybe it's the colour disconnect around the head just doesn't work for me. I dunno. I'll reserve final judgement once I see other paints do their own renditions.


So much for my predictions about Last Alliance elves and another supplement!

I think it's a cool idea for a diorama overall, and I don't outright dislike it, but something really seems off about several parts of it. The Hobbit faces aren't great but that's something that does vary, but both the horse and the tree just don't look right for some reason. It could just be the paint scheme but it gives me a sort of "hyperealistic uncanny valley" feel rather than looking natural.

IMHO it hits that look because unlike in the movie scene, there's no unifiying lighting of the whole scene that blends the stark contrast between the dead tree and the bright green ferns and plants into a more muted, consistent colour palette. Basically, you can see that it was painted part by part and is not one, unified scene but just a random jumble of disjunct things.




In the first picture, you can see that there is effectively some 'patina' covering the whole shot that makes it all blend; the second shot is somehow digitally upscaled and re-brightened for 4k, and you can see that it starts to go in the same 'uncanny valley' direction because it just seems a bit unnatural because the brights are to bright to look realistic.

Another problem with the diorama is that its lighting seems inconsistent, because the tree is highlighted normally, but the hobbits look like they have a light source straight in front of them due to the background being dark-ish and their colours all being pretty bright in contrast. This gives the overall model a confusing look, as if there were two bright light sources, one normal and one spot-lighting the hobbits, which messes with your depth perception etc.

It think it's that combined with the level of detail. Like with the tree you can see all those different sections of its bark in a way that makes it seem somewhat unnatural because of how apparent it all is as not being one thing, unlike the actual scene where it blends together and gives the expected apperance of a tree. Similar thing with the horses mane, it stands out too much and doesn't blend in so comes across as over-detailed in a way.

I went in expecting to be disappointed and ended up feeling worse.

It's ok, but pre-made dioramas aren't my thing.

I don't begrudge its existence for anyone who is minded to pick it up, but was hoping for something related to the actual game.

Actually it is (partially) designed to be gameable which was a surprise

from the MESB lead on facebook

Rob Alderman

In the post-Covid World, nothing quite lands when you intended it to. This wonderful piece has been in development for quite some time (in fact, it began before Covid was even a whispered rumour). Huge kudos to Brian for playing a pivotal part in the team of getting it over the line. At least 4 miniature designers had hands on this project, but most of what you see here is by his fair hand.

It's incredibly detailed, crazily true to the source material (of course, with details scaled appropriately to punch out at this scale) and what's more, the wraith comes on a 40mm base that slots into the display base, so you can use it in games.

The horse bridles that Weta designed are *insanely* complicated, we spent hours trying to dissect them and also realised that every single wraith's horse has a slightly different tack, layers of armour, bits of chains, etc, so we really had to make sure this was the one from this scene in the movie. Absolute madness!

An amazing group effort from all involved and a pleasure to work on.

I don't love it. I'll wait until I see the bare resin to properly judge it though as it might be the paint job is doing it no favors.

The horse's hair looks a bit thick though, like it was bred on the same place the 30k Space Wolves get their fur from.

It's fine, I guess? If it weren't really expensive it'd be a neat painting project/display piece. But it's not spectacular or novel enough to ever tempt me to pay FW prices.

I think it would've looked much better if the tree weren't cut off so low. It should extend a bit past the Ringwraith's head so that it acts like a frame.

Also Frodo and the Ringwraith are modelled on different moments in the scene. Like I appreciate them fussing over the details of the horse's tack, but then at the same time they're fudging what the characters are doing.

Could've solved both problems by having the Ringwraith dismounted and looming directly over the Hobbits.

I'm pretty sure I saw a better scratch build of it on instagram this very week.

And as a gamer it has zero value to me. 0/10

That...that's it? All we get is a diorama nobody wanted and feth all else?

 ZergSmasher wrote:
That...that's it? All we get is a diorama nobody wanted and feth all else?

Just another push to find decent STLs and a 3d printer for me.

The Iron Hills warriors that disappeared have reappered as reboxed full warbands with commands now. Seems like a fair price drop from before when they were blisters only too:

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-GB/searchResults?N=250394657+759006339

Oh look, the World of Lotrcraft goat chariot is still up for grabs.

Secondary bit of news, they're hiring for a dedicated Middle-Earth resin designer. So it looks like they're finally past whatever licensing issue they were having after the take over:

https://jobs.games-workshop.com/search-and-apply/resin-designer-middle-earth

New FAQ is up:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/08/03/middle-earth-strategy-battle-game-designers-commentary/

Unsurprisingly, Assault on Lothlorien and Master of Laketown got worked on, for the better i think.

Interestingly, "In the Way" got a bit of a rework, which is surprising after all this time. But i do like the change.

Good changes all round I say. Surprised the Dragon Emperor LL didn't get a look in. Maybe its not as oppressive as I've heard?

Really a nice job here! I also like the new "In the way" rules.
I do think the Dragon Emperor LL is/was not as powerful as AOL or Isengard LL.
Curious to see how the meta will evolve.

Still salty that they haven't fixed the Rangers of Ithilien LL to not mandate Gollum, Sam, and Frodo.

Or at the very least, they should have made it a requirement that the Faramir and Friends box included them.

Ah yes. The narrative formation of specific moment not include people in that time.

Lol at try-hards just wanting free bonuses

 Kanluwen wrote:
Still salty that they haven't fixed the Rangers of Ithilien LL to not mandate Gollum, Sam, and Frodo.

Or at the very least, they should have made it a requirement that the Faramir and Friends box included them.

The original version of the legion didn't mandate them and was incredibly overpowered at games below around 700pts. There's method in the madness

tneva82 wrote:
Ah yes. The narrative formation of specific moment not include people in that time.

Lol at try-hards just wanting free bonuses

The Rangers were operating how long without their prisoners?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Bobug wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Still salty that they haven't fixed the Rangers of Ithilien LL to not mandate Gollum, Sam, and Frodo.

Or at the very least, they should have made it a requirement that the Faramir and Friends box included them.

The original version of the legion didn't mandate them and was incredibly overpowered at games below around 700pts. There's method in the madness

Then when Faramir and Friends came out, they should have been included in the box.

End of discussion.

Cool story bro.

 Fergie0044 wrote:
Good changes all round I say. Surprised the Dragon Emperor LL didn't get a look in. Maybe its not as oppressive as I've heard?

I think the Dragon Emps not getting touched was quite an oversight. It's not as obnoxious as some laketown soups, but it's very good. He could use a points bump at least considering the utility he delivers, his fight bubble is huge, and the legion can put down a very silly number of fight 5, defence 6 bodies at 800 points.

Bobug wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Still salty that they haven't fixed the Rangers of Ithilien LL to not mandate Gollum, Sam, and Frodo.

Or at the very least, they should have made it a requirement that the Faramir and Friends box included them.

The original version of the legion didn't mandate them and was incredibly overpowered at games below around 700pts. There's method in the madness

And based on what I've read, since they are included they aren't seen competitively any more. 'Method' only if you count the term over correction. Which given its GW, we probably should by now.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/08/06/sunday-preview-celebrate-middle-earth-with-a-made-to-order-diorama/

Soon available to order the new diorama.

Only for a limited time, because it's a Made to Order.

Made to Order, but sounds like it will continue to be available beyond that as a Warhammer World exclusive?

That's strange. The announcement was already quite mysterious ("we can't tell you more right now") and now the only miniature for lotr this year is MTO only?
Something seems to be going on. Maybe the whole MESBG staff has been relocated to Legions or something.

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
That's strange. The announcement was already quite mysterious ("we can't tell you more right now") and now the only miniature for lotr this year is MTO only?
Something seems to be going on. Maybe the whole MESBG staff has been relocated to Legions or something.

GW had to manage right with Embracer group. They are indeed working on new stuff (they recently announced they are looking for a 3d sculptor specifically for ME:SBG).
Surely their major efforts are now on Legions Imperialis and Tow (other GW games like Necromunda have received low support in the last months) but I am quite sure we'll see something new in the near future.

The fact that this is finally releasing and that they have a new sculptor says that they must finally be past the issue with embracer and licensing. So new stuff for the future fingers crossed.

 Dawnbringer wrote:


And based on what I've read, since they are included they aren't seen competitively any more. 'Method' only if you count the term over correction. Which given its GW, we probably should by now.

GW? You mean Jay Clare. He's active (along with the rest of the Middle-earth team) on Facebook and actively participates in the Middle-earth competitive scene, so you can talk to him directly.

 Dawnbringer wrote:

Bobug wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Still salty that they haven't fixed the Rangers of Ithilien LL to not mandate Gollum, Sam, and Frodo.

Or at the very least, they should have made it a requirement that the Faramir and Friends box included them.

The original version of the legion didn't mandate them and was incredibly overpowered at games below around 700pts. There's method in the madness

And based on what I've read, since they are included they aren't seen competitively any more. 'Method' only if you count the term over correction. Which given its GW, we probably should by now.

Is it really an over correction though? It wasn't like you couldn't build lists to win against it pre nerf but the least interesting and least fun armies to play is against pure shooting armies. Even if that LL was just a bit worse but still good enough to seriously compete at events it wouldn't be fun to play against. I think they nerfed it for the fun of the game as much as for balance reasons and thus they corrected it the right amount.

Even though I don't agree with all the decisions the mesbg team does and I have plenty of stuff to complain about in how they do their FAQ/Errata I think they have a very good approach to any nerfs they have made so far. They dont just focus on how powerful or balanced stuff is but also about theme and I suspect a bit about fun as well. It isn't like the rangers of ithilien LL is unplayable. There are many armies and LLs that are worse than it so even though it probably won't win any larger events you can still play them just fine at local tournaments and in normal games. We have one guy at our club that plays them regularly as they are and he isn't performing better or worse with that LL than he does with Minas Tirith in general.

I do think they could do just as Kanluwen wanted and remove the restriction on Gollum, Sam and Frodo if they also removed the bonus that rangers can ignore bow limit so they are forced to use non archer warriors in the list as well or had them pay an extra 2pts a model for the benefit of ignoring bow limit. Anyone who wants back the previous version just as it were and sees no problem with it is most likely a WAAC player and/or someone who even though they might not care about winning they care even less about the other player having a good time.

If you removed the "ignore bow limit", you defeat the purpose of the Legendary Legion...

In an ideal world, the restriction on Frodo, Sam, and Gollum would be removed and replaced with the two FW Ranger characters(who they always seem to forget exist) if there's a requirement of a "points tax".

 Kanluwen wrote:
If you removed the "ignore bow limit", you defeat the purpose of the Legendary Legion...

In an ideal world, the restriction on Frodo, Sam, and Gollum would be removed and replaced with the two FW Ranger characters(who they always seem to forget exist) if there's a requirement of a "points tax".

This shows you don't really know what you are talking about. The two FW ranger's are included in the Faramir rangers LL update that came with the profile for those two rangers. They are also not a "points tax" but a reason the Legendary Legion is so damn oppressive since it gives them an additional 2 heroes with bows and 12 more ranger slots that don't care about bow limits. It also gives them stalk unseen and removes stalk unseen from enemies if anyone would ever try to use woses, wood elves or mirkwood rangers to try to combat that broken Legendary Legion.

If the purpose is to be all bows then it needs a big fat downside to balance it out. A purpose isn't reason enough to be over powered and oppressive.

Serious question: can someone explain to me why that Orc list isn't considered an issue if Faramir's Rangers is?

I ask this as someone who hasn't played the game in a long time so I've likely missed the nuance of the linked list, but can you tell me why the Orc list is an issue?

Aside from the fact that 3 of it's 4 captains are magic users (is 3 shamans OP?), it doesn't seem to lean heavily into any one thing and if I'm honest seems reasonably balanced as far as it's individual elements go (again to someone who hasn't played in a long time). What about it is troublesome?

 Snrub wrote:
I ask this as someone who hasn't played the game in a long time so I've likely missed the nuance of the linked list, but can you tell me why the Orc list is an issue?

Aside from the fact that 3 of it's 4 captains are magic users (is 3 shamans OP?), it doesn't seem to lean heavily into any one thing and if I'm honest seems reasonably balanced as far as it's individual elements go (again to someone who hasn't played in a long time). What about it is troublesome?

It forces the game to play in the night fighting rules and goblins see in the dark, dramatically boosting their shooting and hard nerfing everyone else's

This is on top of goblins being just really easy to spam and they get quite good magic on top of the good magic from muzgur

Also bat swarms are super tricky and strong.

Like a moria beast list was already quite good.


Note that spammy lists tend to be the better lists in the game and have to face nerfs regularly to rein them in

 Kanluwen wrote:
Serious question: can someone explain to me why that Orc list isn't considered an issue if Faramir's Rangers is?

You mean the list that was recently nerfed right before this event and this is the nerfed list? AoL only placed well in the Masters event with 18 players and Kylie who won with it is publicly known as one of the best players in the world. In the open event with over 170 players AoL didn't even reach top 20 if I recall correctly (it was outside of the top 10). I ended up in third place and played against mostly players that ended up in the top 10 (1st & 4th-6th placings) and didn't see any AoL on those tables and no one there really talked about AoL. Some people were surprised Dragon Host didn't get a nerf though. AoL isn't really seen as a problem after the nerf.

Assault on Lothlorien can be harsh to face but even if they spam bows they are still only 1/3 bows rather than 100% on M5 models that hit on 5+(instead of 3+ like rangers) on 18" range (rather than 24" from rangers) and are also really bad in melee with F2 and D3 vs F4 and D4 on the rangers. It is a strong list but that is because how they combine lots of multiple profiles and use beasts with magic. Original Faramir's is just 100% bows and either you survive the bows and crush them or you get wiped out from way too many bows. One list is tough but at least interesting and one list is just the most boring list you can imagine to play against.

I stand firm in my opinion that anyone who thinks GW should go back to the buffed(the 2 additional Ranger Heroes Kanluwen didn't even know were allowed in the Legion) and pre nerfed Faramir's Rangers list is someone not worth listening to because they apparently only cares about their own enjoyment of the game and have 0 regards for anyone else in the community.

Klickor wrote:

I stand firm in my opinion that anyone who thinks GW should go back to the buffed(the 2 additional Ranger Heroes Kanluwen didn't even know were allowed in the Legion)

...lol?

Kanluwen wrote:If you removed the "ignore bow limit", you defeat the purpose of the Legendary Legion...

In an ideal world, the restriction on Frodo, Sam, and Gollum would be removed and replaced with the two FW Ranger characters(who they always seem to forget exist) if there's a requirement of a "points tax".

Yes, because that definitely seems like someone who is unaware of being allowed in the Legendary Legion and not someone suggesting that they replace the weird mandatory caveat on Frodo, Sam, and Gollum with the two FW Ranger characters becoming mandatory?

I'm not sure if it's a language thing(your flag is showing as Norway), but for the record:
My suggestion had nothing to do with "adding" Anborn and Mablung to the list. I know they're there. I have them.

My suggestion was to replace the mandatory Frodo, Sam, and Gollum with making them mandatory. Hell, they could even make them mandatory in joining Faramir or Madril's groups.

There's a lot of ways to go which wouldn't simply be mandating the three characters that are literally meant to be optional so you can represent some of the scenes from the film.

and pre nerfed Faramir's Rangers list is someone not worth listening to because they apparently only cares about their own enjoyment of the game and have 0 regards for anyone else in the community.

Or maybe it's someone who doesn't understand why there's such a hate-on for Faramir's. It's not like they're the only bow heavy list, right?

But how are the 2 extra ranger heroes that buff all your rangers and allows you to take even more rangers a "point tax" when the first thing you should do is start with them in the list? I thought you didn't know they were allowed in the list since you said they should be a point tax and that they somehow were forgotten. They are part of the actual problem with the list so they can't be a solution to the list and if they were forgotten it would have been better.

A point tax is to take something worse to lower the power of a list. None of the ranger heroes are a point tax in faramirs rangers except on very low points. They allow that list to be oppressive in an even larger point span thanks to the extra ranger heroes.

"Maybe we should nerf the Dragon Host by forcing all 18 warriors in the Dragon Emperor's warband be Black Dragons and have one of them also be a cavalry model with a drum! That sounds like the perfect point tax to tackle DE being underpriced!!" "Or maybe we should nerf the Witch King by FORCING him to take 3 might and Crown of Morgul every game, thus wasting points even if they are the best upgrades for him 100% of the time. Cause now players are forced into a point tax the model is nerfed!" What stupid logic is this?

They were the most extreme bow heavy list in the game and still are, but thankfully they have been nerfed so not oppressive. You can't get that many bows with any other list in the game. Maybe pure moria goblin or shire lists can get close but those are way worse bows on way worse models. Most actual bow heavy lists have about half the number of bows than what Faramir's Rangers still can field.

What made the Ranger LL such a problem was the fact that it was bringing so many accurate bows to the table in a game that isn't designed for this level of shooting superiority.

When the opponent's experience is watching as they get 40k Tau'd off the board as they push their models towards a standing (or worse: retreating) gunline just makes for a negative play experience while also being quite oppressive.

The Rangers still do work with the hobbit tax, as a ringbearer is a valuable tool to pair with Faramir, but they have been toned down in a way that prevents them from abusing lower-point brackets where you can't bring a lot of answers to shooting and where each death to shooting weighs even more on the boardstate.

---- Back to current events:

The Assault on Lothlorien LL has a similar issue with shooting superiority, but that is one strength of many behind the AOL list. It's been slightly nerfed, but still seems quite strong.

The changes in this FAQ overall are good. The Heroic Defense change is interesting to say the least, but Strength 4 is common enough that models like the Bears are still taking nat 6s anyways.

Interesting that the DE LL didn't get hit with anything, but time will tell how the other three lists getting hit will influence the next round of adjustments.

RIP: Razgush breaking the rules.

Klickor wrote:
But how are the 2 extra ranger heroes that buff all your rangers and allows you to take even more rangers a "point tax" when the first thing you should do is start with them in the list? I thought you didn't know they were allowed in the list since you said they should be a point tax and that they somehow were forgotten. They are part of the actual problem with the list so they can't be a solution to the list and if they were forgotten it would have been better.

Sure they can.

A point tax is to take something worse to lower the power of a list. None of the ranger heroes are a point tax in faramirs rangers except on very low points. They allow that list to be oppressive in an even larger point span thanks to the extra ranger heroes.

A point tax can be a lot of things.

"Maybe we should nerf the Dragon Host by forcing all 18 warriors in the Dragon Emperor's warband be Black Dragons and have one of them also be a cavalry model with a drum! That sounds like the perfect point tax to tackle DE being underpriced!!" "Or maybe we should nerf the Witch King by FORCING him to take 3 might and Crown of Morgul every game, thus wasting points even if they are the best upgrades for him 100% of the time. Cause now players are forced into a point tax the model is nerfed!" What stupid logic is this?

Probably the same stupid logic that turns the three models that are printed IN TWO SEPARATE ITERATIONS OF THE LEGENDARY LEGION as "optional, but if taken can't lead anyone" then forced into being mandatory?

They were the most extreme bow heavy list in the game and still are, but thankfully they have been nerfed so not oppressive. You can't get that many bows with any other list in the game. Maybe pure moria goblin or shire lists can get close but those are way worse bows on way worse models. Most actual bow heavy lists have about half the number of bows than what Faramir's Rangers still can field.

Whaaaaaaat, a bow themed list can be bow heavy?

It seems you're more interested in taking shots at me than actually discussing things. Enjoy ignore!

But should a bow heavy list obliterate D4 armies and if lucky completely wipe them in this game?

If so, should only Faramir's Rangers be able to do that our should we remove bow limit on more lists like Serpent Horde or Rivendell (besides knights with Elrond) so bow themed lists can be bow themed and win easily from range? They are after all bow themed.

Should shooting be changed from a tool that help dictate where and when engagement happens to the deciding factor in most games? Either you play all bows yourself or you play with IH Ballista, Shadowlord, Cirdan, Gandalf or Galadrield or even worse you play all elf archers with Galadriel/Cirdan and just win the game. Would be pretty thematic to have 30+ elf bows backed up by one of the most powerful elves in the third age. They would also crush Faramir's Rangers so hard they would see even less play than what they currently does.

Klickor wrote:
Should shooting be changed from a tool that help dictate where and when engagement happens to the deciding factor in most games?

Why not? I've never understood this aversion to shooting LOTR players seem to have. Why should shooting be forced into a secondary role and melee get to always be the deciding factor? If there's a bow limit why isn't there also a melee weapon limit?

Rather than imposing arbitrary limits on how many ranged weapons you can include or requiring specific tax characters even if they aren't appropriate for the story the goal should be to fix the core rules so that both options are relevant and interesting. Fix the terrain rules to prevent gunlines from dominating, give quality ranged units an appropriate cost, etc.

The terrain rules are already quite lenient and strong against shooting, you can essentially receive multiple armour saves before even having the roll to wound resolved.

I think artificially limiting the bows is just the trade off for the type of game this is. If you want a shooting game you can look elsewhere, or just suck it up and deal with the limitations you're dealt. Having played a lot of 40k in the past I'm happy with how MESBG plays as it at least allows counterplay and doesn't involve multiple games where you just get deleted by amazing strategies like no-los-anti-everything shooting.

I thought the idea of the bow limit was more to stop very dull games where armies lined up just inside maximum range, ideally in cover and spent many turns shooting to no real impact

essentially to force people to get close

to be fair the scenarios usually do a decent job of punishing someone who sits still but at least its a way of setting armies to at least pay some attention to the background

Shooting games are also the slowest games and quite impractical if you want to do tournaments. It is less lethal than melee most of the time and if there is a lot of terrain the game slows to a crawl.

It is also a bit of a noob trap due to how the scenarios work and how some lists can easily counter shooting lists.

Game works great with shooting being mostly just supplemental and an additional tool to use rather than the main way armies deal damage. How you use it and when you use it adds more skill to it as well rather than just point it at something and delete it (The Isengard LL with Ballistas that was closest to this got nerfed to prevent this non interactive game play). Its when lines start to meet and you have to use your heroes and their resources the more interesting and skill intensive parts of the game begin.

The game just isn't made around shooting being equal to or superior to melee and if anyone would want that then they should look at a different game because this game would need a huge redesign to work like that.

I play Elves and Isengard, two of the most dominant factions when it comes to shooting, and I don't think more shooting would have a positive impact at all. It just doesn't fit into the game and shooting being supplemental also is more realistic considering the tech level seen in Lord of the Rings (book and movies). Bows historically couldn't defeat entire armies even if they were important weapons of war so any game that tries to be at least somewhat "realistic" should follow that. Just because WFB could allow low tech armies win with shooting alone didn't mean that it was a good idea to have that be an option. No one liked playing against it either.

The MeSBg system does fairly well in representing warband warfare from the early Middle Ages in northern/NW Europe (upon which Tolkien based LotR militarily). But it does fall apart when it comes to ranged aspect of that warfare, which is why GW had to arbitrarily limit access to bows.

If one removes this band-aid, the system would need a retooling to make ranged warfare work correctly.

invariably the problem in skirmish games with dangerous ranged weapons is the board size, models can move through a weapons range with far fewer incoming shots than would ever actually happen

Bit gimmicky? But Warriors of the Dead are back, in a blue translucent plastic.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/11/20/the-armies-of-the-dead-fulfil-their-oath-in-new-translucent-plastic-kits/

Interesting. Just need to base and the army is done. More interested in the terrain bundle however.

Gimmicky, maybe. I'm torn about them, as I already have some warriors of the dead from the Battle of Pelennor Fields box, but I like the idea of having them all in translucent plastic better - though the riders of the dead will never get that treatment (unless GW surprises us) so... I guess I'll pick some up and mix them in.

Also, how the hell did you not post the terrain bundle??!? Thats the big news IMO.

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
Interesting. Just need to base and the army is done. More interested in the terrain bundle however.

Been waiting for this. It will finish my Osgiliath board off very nicely.

Any of you good folks who seem able to estimate the prices of these things have an idea what it'll be?

Well the retail looks like £280. So if we assume this is going to be an xmas bundle box, i'm going to guess around 180-200

Thanks

Well hello there.

I hope they stick around long enough for me to get some. Does anyone know how/if this clear resin affects detail quality?

its plastic, not resin. Its the same exact details as the standard kit, just clear, which makes it harder to see unless you paint it.

Well I'm very (pleasantly) surprised.

I'd seen rumours that the mansion & tower were gone for good due to mould breakages, which was reinforced that fact that they were showing on the store as 'no longer available online'.

I need one more mansion to finish a small build table and was annoyed when I skipped over buying another one at the time thinking it would be around for a long time.

But I'll happily buy a couple of these bundles and have a bunch spare for a much bigger and better table!

I love the deadmen of dunharrow in clear plastic. I shouldn't really, as its really gimmicky and is just more money for sculpts I already have. But clear plastic minis, I wonder if they are testing this to move over to more clear parts, like the new D&D minis have clear/coloured plastic like fireballs & ghosts.

I'm still not sure what this means for the games future, but its nice to know that at least in the short term we have some good terrain coming back.

The games future is fine. They hired two new sculptors for it a few months back.

 Snrub wrote:
Well hello there.

I hope they stick around long enough for me to get some. Does anyone know how/if this clear resin affects detail quality?

You usually find that clear HIPS tends to be more brittle than the normal stuff (although i don't have much experience with GW specifically it's a common issue with minis from other manufactuers)

 Mallo wrote:
Well I'm very (pleasantly) surprised.

I'd seen rumours that the mansion & tower were gone for good due to mould breakages, which was reinforced that fact that they were showing on the store as 'no longer available online'.

I need one more mansion to finish a small build table and was annoyed when I skipped over buying another one at the time thinking it would be around for a long time.

But I'll happily buy a couple of these bundles and have a bunch spare for a much bigger and better table!

I love the deadmen of dunharrow in clear plastic. I shouldn't really, as its really gimmicky and is just more money for sculpts I already have. But clear plastic minis, I wonder if they are testing this to move over to more clear parts, like the new D&D minis have clear/coloured plastic like fireballs & ghosts.

I'm still not sure what this means for the games future, but its nice to know that at least in the short term we have some good terrain coming back.

If they re-release nighthaunt in clear plastic, I'm going to riot.

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:

 Snrub wrote:
Well hello there.
I hope they stick around long enough for me to get some. Does anyone know how/if this clear resin affects detail quality?

You usually find that clear HIPS tends to be more brittle than the normal stuff (although i don't have much experience with GW specifically it's a common issue with minis from other manufactuers)

This is my experience as well.

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
Well the retail looks like £280. So if we assume this is going to be an xmas bundle box, i'm going to guess around 180-200

It does not look like this will be a Christmas Bundle.

“The Armies of the Dead will be available to pre-order soon, with Osgiliath following later next year. Make sure to check back with Warhammer Community to find out when, and for all the latest news from Middle-earth.”

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/11/20/the-armies-of-the-dead-fulfil-their-oath-in-new-translucent-plastic-kits/

I quite like the translucent Army of the Dead minis. I have been painting up my current Army of the Dead minis as Black Numenoreans.

It's a gimmick but a nice one, tho wouldn't green make more sense? I traded away my Pelennor Fields ghost sprues, might pick up a force now. And that terrain pack for sure if it's available with retail discount.

If the Fortress of Dol Guldur and Rohan Stronghold boxes are any indication, its a $315-320 box set.

The terrain bundle is fantastic, whole table in a box and broadly useful for a lot of different gaming systems in addition to LotR, which is exactly what you want from a terrain collection.

Tilean settlement for WHFB, Kings of War Basilean city, full frostgrave table and could represent wealthier areas of Mordheim, such as a non-sigmarite temple complex.

Probably the best set of fantasy terrain GW has made in at least 10 years.

scarletsquig wrote:
The terrain bundle is fantastic, whole table in a box and broadly useful for a lot of different gaming systems in addition to LotR, which is exactly what you want from a terrain collection.

Tilean settlement for WHFB, Kings of War Basilean city, full frostgrave table and could represent wealthier areas of Mordheim, such as a non-sigmarite temple complex.

Probably the best set of fantasy terrain GW has made in at least 10 years.

The terrain is a bit small to be used with 28mm+ figures.

1x Gondor Tower
3x Gondor Mansions
3x (?) Gondor Ruins

That's a great box, let's hope it comes with a great price as well!

chaos0xomega wrote:

The terrain is a bit small to be used with 28mm+ figures.

that's an odd claim since MESBG is "28mm scale". also, not true anyways, the newer plastic Osgiliath kits are massive and definitely works for figures up to 1/48 scale. Even the doors are sized to nearly twice the height of a warrior of Minas Tirith.

 judgedoug wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:

The terrain is a bit small to be used with 28mm+ figures.

that's an odd claim since MESBG is "28mm scale". also, not true anyways, the newer plastic Osgiliath kits are massive and definitely works for figures up to 1/48 scale. Even the doors are sized to nearly twice the height of a warrior of Minas Tirith.

MESBG is 25mm scale and always has been.


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Also, the doorways are sized to fit 25mm bases, with the growing list of things that aren't on 25mm bases in other games, that alone starts to present a problem. Also a bit incredulous about your perspective on the doors - they are not that much larger than gondor warriors, unless you mean the archways, which is a different conversation.

The doors are 25mm wide and 45mm high.

I'm sat with an empire swordsman on a new 25mm base and a built mansion. Looks fine to me.

chaos0xomega wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:

The terrain is a bit small to be used with 28mm+ figures.

that's an odd claim since MESBG is "28mm scale". also, not true anyways, the newer plastic Osgiliath kits are massive and definitely works for figures up to 1/48 scale. Even the doors are sized to nearly twice the height of a warrior of Minas Tirith.

MESBG is 25mm scale and always has been.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, the doorways are sized to fit 25mm bases, with the growing list of things that aren't on 25mm bases in other games, that alone starts to present a problem. Also a bit incredulous about your perspective on the doors - they are not that much larger than gondor warriors, unless you mean the archways, which is a different conversation.

It's 28mm true scale. Has been since its inception.

chaos0xomega wrote:

MESBG is 25mm scale and always has been.

it is not and never has been. edit: inb4 "warriors of the last alliance are so tiny!" indeed the first plastics ever made are smaller than all later plastics but even the plastic Numenoreans are not "25mm scale".

The early marketing copy for the game literally referred to the miniatures as 25mm scale miniatures. I was literally looking at it the other day while I was cleaning out the basement of a store owned by a friend who passed away.

and it was, and is 25mm specifically because GWs contract meant the scale had to be different from Warhammer (this contract is also why they have "no swapsies" rules about using the models in warhammer, officially at least)

chaos0xomega wrote:


MESBG is 25mm scale and always has been

.

MESBG hasn't had a consistent scale. The original plastics were 25mm, but metals never really were. The old metal rangers were giants comparatively. In general the metals fit with Perry Historicals, and those are 28mm.

My favorite part of this is that there is an argument _here_ that MESBG, despite huamn-sized infantry models going up to 32mm in height (some more, Dunedain are particularly tall, almost 35mm), are 25mm; while over on TMP, any time MESBG figures are brought up there's loads of complaints of how huge they are and don't fit into 25mm armies.

Anyway moving away from people measuring 25mm to the middle of the chest to determine scale or whatever, the new plastic Gondor terrain is absolutely compatible with pretty much everything in this "range" of fantasy miniatures.

Well, I guess that explains why some of the metal (or these days finecast) minis seem to be so grossly oversized compared to everything else. Black Numenorean warriors are giants compared to every other plastic human mini I own.

the Gondor terrain is fantastic, a pig to build with so many parts but seriously well thought out and flexible because of it

can see trying to get hold of that boxed set, with the ruins I already have thats plenty for a good table, not just for Middle Earth either, for any fantasy skirmish type system as well

Dakka should just change the 'News & Rumours' forum to be "Scale conversations" at this point

Don't know why but I need to buy those "new" models. They look gorgeous and superfast to field painted and based.

Ive heard from friends who have painted translucent minis for malifaux that they are a nightmare to paint well because you can very easily overpaint them and ruin the translucent effect, etc. I would guess that having an airbrush probably helps a lot.

Holy ****, a release!

So will these go along regular plastic? Replace regular plastic? Be a one time deal until they sell out?

We dont know.

 CragHack wrote:
So will these go along regular plastic? Replace regular plastic? Be a one time deal until they sell out?

Says in the article they won't be replacing existing miniatures.

And the clear ghosties are up already:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/11/26/sunday-preview-noble-knights-with-pennants-flying/

Also while stocks last. So just a splash release then.

Delayed in Canada and US

chaos0xomega wrote:
Ive heard from friends who have painted translucent minis for malifaux that they are a nightmare to paint well because you can very easily overpaint them and ruin the translucent effect, etc. I would guess that having an airbrush probably helps a lot.

Your friend is 100% correct. The translucent Malifaux figures are best left well alone unless you want to play them translucent.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/12/07/battles-in-middle-earth-heres-how-throne-of-skulls-2023-went-down/

For those not interested in clicking the link, it's just a short collection of images for the best painted and a single list that won which was Eomer's Legendary Legion.

The outfit is a classy touch.

I enjoyed it as well, not sure if it served a purpose or if theres a story behind it, etc. but its a cute look lol

He's the sun on the 5th day

You should go have a look at the GBHL on Youtube. Damian runs the channel there.

Vorian wrote:
He's the sun on the 5th day

Ahhh. I had a feeling it was a joke or a reference to something but couldn't figure it out lol. Thanks for that.

Interesting to see that the Riders of Eomer legion won an event. I would have thought it was a bit too limited for comp play, but then again Rohan does seem to be one of the stronger armies in the game right now. Maybe it just goes to show that Middle-Earth is so well balanced that just about any army, piloted competently, can win.

It was an event that awarded a lot of points outside of the games and encouraged softer or more themed lists. So it isn't really representative of more competitive events.

A brief glimpse of the first (re)release for Middle-Earth of 2024, and the next MTO preview

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/01/25/the-road-goes-ever-on-a-look-ahead-to-2024-in-the-middle-earth-strategy-battle-game/

Starting to feel like they're taking the piss with some of these, Heroes of Helm's Deep, Gamling and Theoden again, for, what, the fourth time?

At least theyre including the best Eomer sculpt this time around, and I think this is the first outing for Defenders of Rohan. The command set is ace, I don't know about the banner bearer but I believe the captain is a former army set exclusive?

Well damn, actual news. Some incredibly expensive models that are coming MTO and actual new stuff. There's an Eru after all.


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 Tim the Biovore wrote:
A brief glimpse of the first (re)release for Middle-Earth of 2024, and the next MTO preview

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/01/25/the-road-goes-ever-on-a-look-ahead-to-2024-in-the-middle-earth-strategy-battle-game/

Starting to feel like they're taking the piss with some of these, Heroes of Helm's Deep, Gamling and Theoden again, for, what, the fourth time?

At least theyre including the best Eomer sculpt this time around, and I think this is the first outing for Defenders of Rohan. The command set is ace, I don't know about the banner bearer but I believe the captain is a former army set exclusive?

Defenders of Rohan has never been done and are exceptionally expensive, as is Eomer and the sword armed Gamling. The captain was a magazine exclusive that never got a re-release. Good choices i think.

Ooh good news. What do we think the campaign book will be about? Initially I thought it might be a Umbar or Harad based one as we haven't seen anything from that quarter yet. But someone else reminded me of the potential for Last Alliance, which had completely slipped my mind.
Last Alliance makes sense. Elrond re-released in plastic, the heavily hinted at Gil-Galad redo from the stream last year. A new plastic Sauron would be great.

The MtO is a stonker too! That elusive mounted Eomer will finally be mine, as will that very rare captain. Defenders is also a must have for me, as I actually have none of those minis, despite both Gamling and Hama being somewhat common. I have both mounted Theoden and Gamling (although it is nice to see that Gamling available again!) and all but the elf banner from the Heroes set. So should be a cheaper MtO for me.

 Tim the Biovore wrote:
Starting to feel like they're taking the piss with some of these

At least it's not Haldir's Elves again!
Which in something of a cruel irony, despite the amount of times they have been up for MtO, i've never had the excess funds for the. Now I do have cash available and they're not here...

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
The captain was a magazine exclusive that never got a re-release. Good choices i think.

He was an army box exclusive. The magazine exclusive was (initially) Ugluk who later got released in a blister pack alongside Vrasku. And an alternate version of Gandalf the white on foot who was standing on the rock, who was later released (or had been previously released, I forget) as a version without the rock.



EDIT: 8000th post.

I was annoyed by that post today. After months of nothing (nothing new) they say "hey, we have something new in the works" and hint at absolutely nothing nor when.

They did strongly hint at Gil-Galad, what, over a year ago now? Maybe 2. We have seen nothing but MTO.

I'm sorry... we seen a very limited and extremely expensive "get off the road" model that has no value in games.

If they are working on something I hope it's something good, and big like Last Alliance. I'm very doubtful.

I haven't bought and LotR in years (I tracked pretty much everything I wanted down when they were doing the fine cast switch, I like my metal). But if they went and brought out new plastics for the Last Alliance (as in troops, not just a couple characters) then I'd be making some purchases.

The obvious choice would of course be a Last Alliance supplement. Anarion, hero resculpts, Plastic Sauron and most importantly, high elves & numenor plastic kits. Maybe a cheeky Khazad-Dum Legendary Legion. But I have to say I am a bit pessimistic with regards to new plastic troops at this point. Well, we have to wait and see.

MTO: Shamefully, I still have the Theoden and Gamling from the Warg Attack box NIB from a previous MTO. Lovely sculpts, I really need to get to painting those. But I will definitely get Eomer and the Captain. Great sculpts.

zombie_sky_diver wrote:They did strongly hint at Gil-Galad, what, over a year ago now? Maybe 2. We have seen nothing but MTO.

Uh.. Mid '22 from memory. That's when Elrond was announced. Then April last year, they teased that they were working on something they couldn't talk about.

Dawnbringer wrote:But if they went and brought out new plastics for the Last Alliance (as in troops, not just a couple characters) then I'd be making some purchases.

If we base our assumptions around models that have been released/teased/talked about then Last Alliance seems likely. The other possibility is maybe a Battle for Lothlorien supplement as the Galadhrim Court guard redo as well as Rumil & Orophin would indicate there's something going on in that there.

Other avenues could be Umbar or Harad/Far Harad as they haven't been the focus of a supplement yet, or (and this the one I'm hoping for personally) is a Fall of Arnor/Rise of Angmar book.

 Snrub wrote:


The other possibility is maybe a Battle for Lothlorien supplement as the Galadhrim Court guard redo as well as Rumil & Orophin would indicate there's something going on in that there.

Other avenues could be Umbar or Harad/Far Harad as they haven't been the focus of a supplement yet, or (and this the one I'm hoping for personally) is a Fall of Arnor/Rise of Angmar book.

I doubt GW would release models over a year before bringing out a book that highlights them, that's not the way they do things. We know they can keep some sculpts awaiting release for long times, so to me if they were going to do a Lothlorian supplement they would have held back those releases to go with the book.

As for Umbar / Harad, depends how far you want to go back, they had a source book in 2008, and Arnor / Angmar had one in 2006/7 (yes, I've been around that long. Ha) but I assume you mean since it became MESBG.

 Snrub wrote:

zombie_sky_diver wrote:They did strongly hint at Gil-Galad, what, over a year ago now? Maybe 2. We have seen nothing but MTO.

Uh.. Mid '22 from memory. That's when Elrond was announced. Then April last year, they teased that they were working on something they couldn't talk about.

Dawnbringer wrote:But if they went and brought out new plastics for the Last Alliance (as in troops, not just a couple characters) then I'd be making some purchases.

If we base our assumptions around models that have been released/teased/talked about then Last Alliance seems likely. The other possibility is maybe a Battle for Lothlorien supplement as the Galadhrim Court guard redo as well as Rumil & Orophin would indicate there's something going on in that there.

Other avenues could be Umbar or Harad/Far Harad as they haven't been the focus of a supplement yet, or (and this the one I'm hoping for personally) is a Fall of Arnor/Rise of Angmar book.

One thing, what would speak in favor of the Arnor/Angmar book would be the lack of availability and missing MtOs at the moment of the Arnor & some Angmar (Shade and Gulavhar?) models. So they don't do a MtO because the range will be rotated back in with the supplement.

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
Well damn, actual news. Some incredibly expensive models that are coming MTO and actual new stuff. There's an Eru after all.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Tim the Biovore wrote:
A brief glimpse of the first (re)release for Middle-Earth of 2024, and the next MTO preview

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/01/25/the-road-goes-ever-on-a-look-ahead-to-2024-in-the-middle-earth-strategy-battle-game/

Starting to feel like they're taking the piss with some of these, Heroes of Helm's Deep, Gamling and Theoden again, for, what, the fourth time?

At least theyre including the best Eomer sculpt this time around, and I think this is the first outing for Defenders of Rohan. The command set is ace, I don't know about the banner bearer but I believe the captain is a former army set exclusive?

Defenders of Rohan has never been done and are exceptionally expensive, as is Eomer and the sword armed Gamling. The captain was a magazine exclusive that never got a re-release. Good choices i think.

Captain is a former army box exclusive. I don't think it came in the magazine. This is the only time its been released afaik:



Its probably the only miniature from the game I've paid over the odds to get as I brought that set last year for a bit more than its really worth as I honestly never thought it would see a release again.

Dawnbringer wrote:I doubt GW would release models over a year before bringing out a book that highlights them, that's not the way they do things. We know they can keep some sculpts awaiting release for long times, so to me if they were going to do a Lothlorian supplement they would have held back those releases to go with the book.

Ah I'd actually forgotten they included the assault of Lothlorien onto the Defence of the North book. Maybe they wont do a dedicated Lorien book then. Makes the Last Alliance look more and more likely.

As for Umbar / Harad, depends how far you want to go back, they had a source book in 2008, and Arnor / Angmar had one in 2006/7 (yes, I've been around that long. Ha) but I assume you mean since it became MESBG.

Yeah I did mean since they combined both LotR and Hobbit into Middle-earth. But yes, I do remember the OG supplement books. I myself started this (very expensive) journey back when Return of the King was released. I went with a friend to see it for his birthday and his mum got him the RoTK box. Completely changed my life that did.

Bago wrote:One thing, what would speak in favor of the Arnor/Angmar book would be the lack of availability and missing MtOs at the moment of the Arnor & some Angmar (Shade and Gulavhar?) models. So they don't do a MtO because the range will be rotated back in with the supplement.

Oh please god no. A full Arnor/Angmar Made to Order would financially cripple me.

Jay Clare was talking about a Last Alliance expansion as far back as ~2016 at least (at an event they were previewing the Lake-town houses from what I recall, whenever that was). And I guess it has been hoped for by fans for even longer (if only for the faint possibility of dedicated Elves and Númenórean plastics - it's amazing what just 2 plastic sprues could do!), and hinted as at least being considered several times. Does that mean it's even more likely, the longer time passes, or less likely? Either way, wouldn't be surprised to (finally) see it happen. Would be nice to get something resembling concrete information at some point soon...

 Coenus Scaldingus wrote:
Jay Clare was talking about a Last Alliance expansion as far back as ~2016 at least (at an event they were previewing the Lake-town houses from what I recall, whenever that was). And I guess it has been hoped for by fans for even longer (if only for the faint possibility of dedicated Elves and Númenórean plastics - it's amazing what just 2 plastic sprues could do!), and hinted as at least being considered several times. Does that mean it's even more likely, the longer time passes, or less likely? Either way, wouldn't be surprised to (finally) see it happen. Would be nice to get something resembling concrete information at some point soon...

The future proofing of Anarion in the rule book does help these rumours

I'm very doubtful we will see plastic troops for anything, even if they did a Last Alliance supplement. It will probably all just go to FW.

When's the time we seen a plastic kit that wasn't terrain or a character? And even then, it's very, very rare. Elrond and the Gondor terrain was probably the most recent and that was 2022, no?

I'm not referring to the dead. That was an oddball alternate.

I don't expect much to come from LotR at all in truth. GW is just in an odd situation where they're supporting the game... but not actually supporting the game. It's like an illusion to make you think the game is being supported by them.

 Dawnbringer wrote:


I doubt GW would release models over a year before bringing out a book that highlights them, that's not the way they do things. We know they can keep some sculpts awaiting release for long times, so to me if they were going to do a Lothlorian supplement they would have held back those releases to go with the book.

I think the Easterling Acolytes and some other miniatures were released over a year before Defense of the North was released. There was even another supplement inbetween the release of those models and the book that had their rules.

It could be that the plan was for this new supplement to be released last year but due to things related to Horus Heresy and The Old World (that both were delayed last year) the MESBG team had to shift over enough resources that anything MESBG related got delayed even more than the other 2 games. Specialist Games have a lot of games to handle and the people on that team aren't working on only one game and 2 new game releases in just over a month took priority.

I think GW's willingness to continue investing into terrain kits for MESBG are indicative of their willingness to invest into new plastics. Terrain, generally speaking, doesn't sell nearly as well as actual units do.

Finally, very excited! I do expect a second age era supplement too.

Hope for Aenarion (resin) Isildur, Elendil Gil Galad and maybe Sauron in plastic.

And remember that War of the Rohirrim is out at end of the year..

Sauron in plastic seems like the best return on investment, I'd imagine he has the potential to be the most popular kit in the range.

Anarion will almost certainly be resin if and when he arrives, but I'm actually not sure about the others. I could see them going to resin if they get the same sculptor behind Glorfindel, but plastic would also make sense if they get the Elrond treatment and bring a captain/banner each (although I'd expect the Numenoreans at least to get a resin commanders set like Dale)

I could see Elendil, Anarion, and Isildur as a plastic trio like Faramir, Madril, and Damrod.

Elronds Banner Bearer fueled the Idea of new Last Alliance plastic Troops...

Also that suppliment, mentioned in 2016.

 Tim the Biovore wrote:
Sauron in plastic seems like the best return on investment, I'd imagine he has the potential to be the most popular kit in the range.

Anarion will almost certainly be resin if and when he arrives, but I'm actually not sure about the others. I could see them going to resin if they get the same sculptor behind Glorfindel, but plastic would also make sense if they get the Elrond treatment and bring a captain/banner each (although I'd expect the Numenoreans at least to get a resin commanders set like Dale)

Man, i would kill for a plastic Sauron. Such an old piece, he deserves it.

zombie_sky_diver wrote:
I'm very doubtful we will see plastic troops for anything, even if they did a Last Alliance supplement. It will probably all just go to FW.

No, I don't think they would go resin.
Both Noldor and Numenoreans are in a something of a strange position, where their plastic troops share a sprue and yet both races are still missing basic troops in plastic. The last alliance sprue contains elves with swords, elves with bows and men with swords.
Neither have plastic spearmen and the Numenoreans also lack plastic bowmen. All of which are still resin/metal.

The two options GW have in that regard are create a 2nd Last Alliance kit that has the missing spearmen and bowmen. Or create 2 entirely new kits one for each race.
I don't think they'd go for the first option, even though it'd mean less work for them over all. And a new kits would mean they could address some posing issues, which both the men and elves with swords suffer from.

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:

Man, i would kill for a plastic Sauron. Such an old piece, he deserves it.

But they were, all of them, deceived, for another Sauron was made. In the land of Nottingham, in the fires of Mount Citadel, the Dark Lord Sauron forged in finecast.


I would also kill for a plastic Sauron and a proper set of plastic numenorean troops. I'm putting together about 200 last alliance elves right now and whilst the plastic numenoreans that come with them are good, the metal sets to put together enough bowmen and spearmen is costly.

My fear (its too strong a word, but we'll roll with it) about a plastic Sauron is that they'll make him into an embiggened centrepiece model on like an 80mm base with Elendil/Isildur in ring cutting pose as well as all manner of extraneous scenic bs it doesn't need. Rather then just keeping him neatly on a 40mm base with Elendil/Isildur separate.

Unless of course they do it like the FW primarch scenic bases where you can detach them on a smaller gaming base. That'd be fine.

I hope I'm wrong, but my point was, other than a plastic character once a year, when have we ever seen a LotR plastic kit? Not since The Hobbie have they released a plastic troop box. Even with Battle of the Five armies was it all finecast.

I find it hard to believe, and doubtful, we will see new plastic Last Alliance Elves and Men. I hope I'm wrong. I would love it and buy a ton, but I'm not counting on it.


Given the track record and history I'll be in shock of they do anything. Given the new animated movie coming this year that's probably they're focus and reason for the Rohan MTO list.

I would love a new Sauron.. even in a resin display as you described.

Snrub wrote:My fear (its too strong a word, but we'll roll with it) about a plastic Sauron is that they'll make him into an embiggened centrepiece model on like an 80mm base with Elendil/Isildur in ring cutting pose as well as all manner of extraneous scenic bs it doesn't need. Rather then just keeping him neatly on a 40mm base with Elendil/Isildur separate.

Unless of course they do it like the FW primarch scenic bases where you can detach them on a smaller gaming base. That'd be fine.

If they do him in resin as a Character Series, then he'd 100% have a detachable scenic base. As a plastic remaster, there'd have to be a significant scale increase to necessitate bumping him off a 40mm, which I can't imagine they'd do unless they went for a split profile to represent him fully-powered in the Second Age with the Ring in his possession, and the Ring-less Third Age version that was originally planned to appear in the third film. Considering how tight the community is, I can't imagine the creative team would be too keen to invalidate the sculpt that people have been buying for the last two decades

Kanluwen wrote:I could see Elendil, Anarion, and Isildur as a plastic trio like Faramir, Madril, and Damrod.

I hadn't even considered them not updating the mounted Isildur at the same time, and finally giving Elendil his horse, but you're right, this is probably the most efficient way for them to do it, and it matches the precedent of the Rangers and the Three Hunters too

I am quite sure we will never see new plastic troops in the near future, too.
But honestly I don't care, I am fine for what we have and for the support they give to the game, that is not suffocating the audience with continuous plastic release and unbalanced rules.
Very excited about the new supplement!

In some ways I do think it is more and more likely we get plastic warriors for each passing year. Should be much cheaper and effective to make new plastic sprues now than ever before and the old sprues are quite inefficient in their layout.

Just cramming in a bit more on each sprue so when they do make plastic MESBG kits they can get more models out per time spent in the machines might make it worth it alone. If they at the same time can retire a metal or resin kit due to the extra options on the sprue they will save money/time/resources there as well.

Their production capabilities seem to be their bottleneck so anything that could improve that might get an upgrade rather than if a kit really needs it for just being old.

A plast kit for Numenor and one for Rivendell would be 1 more plastic kit but they could at the same time retire elf spearmen, numenor spearmen, numenor bowmen and the rivendell captain + banner pack while also adding in a helmet or shield for a numenor captain upgrade and maybe even a banner (unless they want to save space on the sprue and instead do it like Elrond and make a plastic hero and add in the banner there). 2 products for what is now 5. Would clean up their terrible website at the same time and make it much easier and cheaper to start a new Rivendell or Numenor army.

Might be a biased view since lotr is still quite strong in germany but I don't think middle earth plastics sell worse than Aeronautica Planes, Necromunda squads, or some of the upcoming ancient whfb kits that have been replaced by newer stuff already (or have better and cheaper alternatives).
That being said Numenorians wouldn't be the first thing on my list to get a new kit, not because it's not necessary but because it's quite a fringe faction in the game and always was.

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
Might be a biased view since lotr is still quite strong in germany but I don't think middle earth plastics sell worse than Aeronautica Planes, Necromunda squads, or some of the upcoming ancient whfb kits that have been replaced by newer stuff already (or have better and cheaper alternatives).
That being said Numenorians wouldn't be the first thing on my list to get a new kit, not because it's not necessary but because it's quite a fringe faction in the game and always was.

Numenor might be a bit fringe but at the same time a new kit would probably sell better than some other more popular factions just because not everyone has bothered with Numenor due to it being fringe and you almost have to start a Rivendell army at the same time. With upgraded characters and a new Rivendell kit at the same time it could probably sell very well. I think it would be hard to sell for example new orcs or minas tirith warriors since everyone already has so many of them and you would have to convince people to rebuy the same models. That problem wouldn't exist to the same regard with a new numenor kit if they do decide to split the current box and make 2 new ones.

I don't think they would put numenor as a priority by themselves but Rivendell might get that treatment and just because of that Numenor kinda has to get that free ride.

I quite like that LOTR is a time capsule to the early 2000s GW.
I made the plastic Eomer recently, and although the finished product is nice, I did not enjoy the process of building him at all. I definitely prefer the metal characters I have, and I'd be disappointed to see any of the great plastics replaced by modern GW plastics with a million parts for one pose. Give me the joy of really nicely designed one or two piece models that have 12 poses in a box and metal for special models.

I know the modern plastics are a technical marvel but I'm exactly the demographic that doesn't like them - too many pieces for zero modularity, not to mention spectacularly high prices.

Klickor wrote:

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
Might be a biased view since lotr is still quite strong in germany but I don't think middle earth plastics sell worse than Aeronautica Planes, Necromunda squads, or some of the upcoming ancient whfb kits that have been replaced by newer stuff already (or have better and cheaper alternatives).
That being said Numenorians wouldn't be the first thing on my list to get a new kit, not because it's not necessary but because it's quite a fringe faction in the game and always was.

Numenor might be a bit fringe but at the same time a new kit would probably sell better than some other more popular factions just because not everyone has bothered with Numenor due to it being fringe and you almost have to start a Rivendell army at the same time. With upgraded characters and a new Rivendell kit at the same time it could probably sell very well. I think it would be hard to sell for example new orcs or minas tirith warriors since everyone already has so many of them and you would have to convince people to rebuy the same models. That problem wouldn't exist to the same regard with a new numenor kit if they do decide to split the current box and make 2 new ones.

I don't think they would put numenor as a priority by themselves but Rivendell might get that treatment and just because of that Numenor kinda has to get that free ride.

These are some good points.
I'd say modern kits of Orcs and elves would also be interesting to people outside MESBG, like Oathmark or Saga Fantasy players if GW didn't price themselves out of competition . I'd say that's less the case for Minas Tirith warriors, because their look is connected to lotr for everyone.

Mrs. GG and I would certainly like to see new Elves in plastic.

New FAQ is up

They've updated the Main Rule Book, Matched Play, Defence of the North and Armies of tLotR.

The only Balancing aspect is +30 points for the Dragon Emperor

Should have been plus a million.

Ah he's fine. That's just cut 3 models out of the list.

It had to be amended in a way or another... lot of people think it is useless now!

Lots of people love to overreact. He's still brutal in his LL, but not such an auto include outside of it.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/03/14/middle-earth-strategy-battle-game-grand-tournament-2024-review/

Grand Tournament and another drip-fed preview

Preview is a preview. Gives me Numenor vibes

Yeah that's got Last Alliance written all over it.

Actually giving it some consideration, i'm changing my mind to Arnor. Numenor barely ever used cavalry.

Arnor is more likely in terms of cavalry, but don't forget the mount options for Last Alliance characters

True, but the star design suddenly strikes me as Arnor more. Would also give a reason to put the "range" back into stock.

The Arnor stars shown here are six pointed. The stars in the preview are eight pointed, like the ones in Numenorean and Gondorian heraldry.

My first thought was plastic King Elessar.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/04/11/middle-earth-strategy-battle-game-reinforcements-arrive-in-the-north/

Well, there you go.

Inquisitor Gideon was spot on

And pic for those blocked

Looks like a command set will be coming too.

Real shocker. Did not expect this at all but love it. Gw Arnor designs are awesome

Confirmed by the Warhammer Community team to be FW resin kits, by the by, on the Arnor Knights.

nice looking, very nice looking.

resin models with contact points to the base like that though?

not so sure on that bit, pity, as a box of six in plastic could have been tempted, especially if infantry and command models followed

 Kanluwen wrote:
Confirmed by the Warhammer Community team to be FW resin kits, by the by, on the Arnor Knights.

A little disappointing. As someone thats collected a huge amount of MESBG minis for huge wargames but has no interest in skirmish level games, these FW resin kits hold very little interest, other than perhaps adding a single one as 'command' selection to the otherwise much cheaper options we have out there.

Oh well, these are nice models but I'd have brought 10+ boxes in plastic for sure.

I can only hope that this might mean we might see an Arnor MTO so I can finally fill some gaps.

Yea I'm not buying these for 15€ a pop.

They look nice. Presumably there's a new command coming. Hopefully a redone Arvadui and Malbeth. And if one could hope, Gulhavar.

think what they need to try and find a way to do is to take the basic plastic boxes they have now, and add a small command box for each, a hero of some sort, ideally two different ones with a few posing options even if just a few weapon arms. then a banner and drummer or other option depending on the faction.

makes the current plastic boxes a lot more useful and allows more useful battlehost options in the future too

 Kanluwen wrote:
Confirmed by the Warhammer Community team to be FW resin kits, by the by, on the Arnor Knights.

Oh, my interest is suddenly deflated.

Surprised someone hoped they were in plastic: only famous heroes will be remade in plastic.

However they are very nice. I dream about a great, big supplement about the Second Age with new rules for Arnor, Numenor, Angmar. Ah, and Blue Mountains too!

It does seem that it's just life support for LotR these days. Which is a shame, as I'd definitely be in for a box or three if they and the foot versions were to be done in plastic. Unfortunately for GW, more than enough other plastic options out there for medieval humans these days.

 Dawnbringer wrote:
It does seem that it's just life support for LotR these days. Which is a shame, as I'd definitely be in for a box or three if they and the foot versions were to be done in plastic. Unfortunately for GW, more than enough other plastic options out there for medieval humans these days.

After what they pulled with HH and Legiones Imperiales I was wondering if they couldn't throw middleearth a bone and at least redo some of the very first plastics like Goblins and Rivendell elves... A proper set, decently priced would probably attract players from other games as well and not sell that bad.

Sgt. Cortez wrote:


After what they pulled with HH and Legiones Imperiales I was wondering if they couldn't throw middleearth a bone and at least redo some of the very first plastics like Goblins and Rivendell elves... A proper set, decently priced would probably attract players from other games as well and not sell that bad.

Oh I agree. In fact I'd go further and say a redone set of second age Elves / Numenor / Orcs done as a big Age of Darkness style box set with plastic Sauron, Elendil, Isildur, Gil-Galad, and Elrond would go far to revitalise the game.

Great models. Just the spears that don't look anything like spears.

It's a stick with a pointy end. That's pretty much a spear.

No pun intended, doesn't look pointy, that's the point. Compared to, say, Iron Hills spears More like.. *inserts eggplant emoji*

Has there been anyone from the US to receive the clear ghosties from the MTO?

 CragHack wrote:
No pun intended, doesn't look pointy, that's the point. Compared to, say, Iron Hills spears More like.. *inserts eggplant emoji*

It's pretty much the same as all other Gondor / Arnor spears. And as someone that uses metal spears / pikes on models, be careful what you wish for.

It is stunning to me that GW cannot make this game a bigger seller than it is. Lord of the Rings is one of the biggest IP’s out there with fans who spend excessive amounts of cash on all kinds of stuff.

I suspect GW very intentionally doesn’t make the effort with MEsbg to avoid the license penalty and to avoid cannibalizing its other non-license, fantasy customers. Frankly, the game would be better served (in terms of production) under a different company.

callidusx3 wrote:
It is stunning to me that GW cannot make this game a bigger seller than it is. Lord of the Rings is one of the biggest IP’s out there with fans who spend excessive amounts of cash on all kinds of stuff.

I suspect GW very intentionally doesn’t make the effort with MEsbg to avoid the license penalty and to avoid cannibalizing its other non-license, fantasy customers. Frankly, the game would be better served (in terms of production) under a different company.

That's probably exactly why they keep it. They don't want people spending that money elsewhere, even if the money isn't being directly poured into them. It just stops the competition getting it.

I'd love to see someone get a proper license for a book version of a wargame, but honestly at least having GW chug along with it is probably about as good as we would get. It would just be nice if they made some effort to a- keep things in stock most of the time and b- actually had things released on some sort of schedule that made sense.

It is all very strange though that one of the biggest IPs isn't currently being milked for all its worth, we've had a couple of GW models and the MTG stuff and a few odds n ends like board games, video games, and horrid new book covers. Where is all the new Middle Earth Merch?

We have a new film only months away, you'd think GW would be milking the game even if no one else is! Not even a trailer yet!

Bit on the fence about these. It's good to see anything new for the range at this stage, and Arnor certainly benefits from having another troop option, plus a mounted one at that. On the other hand, it's not exactly an exciting new addition: it's useful in game terms but also makes them more similar to other armies instead of offering something more unique. Visually, they're exactly just a Warrior of Arnor on horseback too, which is convenient for dismounts, but I think it's something about the shields that makes them look off on horses (can't think of many historical people using large rectangular shields while mounted, and it at least looks mighty inconvenient). Think I would have preferred a new elite option that was available mounted and on foot, creating more aesthetic variation and effectively adding 2 troop options instead of 1. Pose on the thrusting rider looks pretty ace though, has some "renaissance painting" vibes.

Excited for this, bummed that they will be resin - not my favorite material to work with.

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
After what they pulled with HH and Legiones Imperiales.

What did they pull with these?

 .Mikes. wrote:

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
After what they pulled with HH and Legiones Imperiales.

What did they pull with these?

From the context, I'd guess at "(re)launch with a buttload of plastic kits"

If GW re-launched MESBG they'd probably upscale all the miniatures and put them on bigger bases, and resculpt them in CAD with way more pieces for similarly monopose plastics. They'd probably cost an arm and a leg too.

I've said it before but I'm okay with this game being "unsupported" if it means the old model line remains in production and the rules remain relatively stable.

The kind of support GW usually supplies is not to my taste!

 Da Boss wrote:
If GW re-launched MESBG they'd probably upscale all the miniatures and put them on bigger bases, and resculpt them in CAD with way more pieces for similarly monopose plastics. They'd probably cost an arm and a leg too.

I've said it before but I'm okay with this game being "unsupported" if it means the old model line remains in production and the rules remain relatively stable.

The kind of support GW usually supplies is not to my taste!

Well, Lotr had monopose models before it was cool.
Also, GW can do stable rules, even HH2.0 is not that far from 1.0.
Overall I understand your sentiment, but it would still be cool to see some of the oldest plastics redone with modern technology.

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
Overall I understand your sentiment, but it would still be cool to see some of the oldest plastics redone with modern technology.

If you're not familiar with them already, check out Davale and/or Medbury miniatures.
They both do some really nice, close-to-GW style Middle-earth minis. Pretty sure Davale have just done some not!-Numenoreans recently.

I printed a few of Davale's not-Numenoreans last year. They are gorgeous and look fairly close to the official models.

I love the feel of movement in the Davale stuff. They made up the spear portion of my Rivendell rather than spend $30 per offical model on Ebay.

 Snrub wrote:

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
Overall I understand your sentiment, but it would still be cool to see some of the oldest plastics redone with modern technology.

If you're not familiar with them already, check out Davale and/or Medbury miniatures.
They both do some really nice, close-to-GW style Middle-earth minis. Pretty sure Davale have just done some not!-Numenoreans recently.

Yeah I know these among others and bought some stls. So far 3D printing is a lot of hasste though and if you buy them from printing Services they're more expensive than even GWs kits. So... yes it's nice we have these today but they can't compete with a proper plastic set in my eyes. WGA's and northstar's Orcs and goblins are the closest we have to updated lotr kits I feel.

dunno on a lot of hassle, I think the main issue for many is a lack of space given especially with resin you have to leave it set up and while many resins are not bad you do want ventilation, and it needs to be warm so the garage isn't ideal

less the trouble printing and more the requirements for the infrastructure as opposed to "I open this box"

I gave resin 3D printing a honest shot for several months. It is a hobby into itself, with much needing to be learned to properly support a print, in addition to all the other infrastructure issues. I had less than a 50% success rate on prints. I gave up. It takes too long to get proficient at it, and I don't have that time.

Give me a proper supported game line anytime over having to rely on 3D printing. GW does worse with the MEsbg line than much smaller companies do with their main lines.

callidusx3 wrote:
I gave resin 3D printing a honest shot for several months. It is a hobby into itself, with much needing to be learned to properly support a print, in addition to all the other infrastructure issues. I had less than a 50% success rate on prints. I gave up. It takes too long to get proficient at it, and I don't have that time.

Give me a proper supported game line anytime over having to rely on 3D printing. GW does worse with the MEsbg line than much smaller companies do with their main lines.

this is all perfectly fair, not had too many issues with printing here, but have most certainly had some, getting the Ender 3 V2 working reliably took time, as did working out the work flow for resin.

for example, just done a few characters for Isengard (pair of Uruk-Hai ones), the alternative was GWs resin (sorry no) or metal via ebay.

the rank and file are plastic all the way, bit more robust and with the bulk being single or at most two part models assembly was very quick and to be honest the models look fine.

combine that for middle earth you don't actually need that many the fact I could probably get 12-16 on a built plate ceases the matter, the backlog is painting them

if these characters had been available in plastic, say a single box which is the ones from the "armies of.." book for a faction and I'd have it in a shot

that said printed terrain works wonderfully

So with the news today that Embracer is spinning off Asmodee and "Middle Earth Entertainment & Friends" as two separate independent companies, I think we can put to rest any concerns of Asmodee getting the LOTR miniatures license from GW.

I think that worry ended the moment GW started hiring more sculptors and announcing stuff. It's pretty obvious the lull was due to them sorting out the licensing issues.

Unless GW does a 180 in how it manages MEsbg, I am not happy that it is keeping the license.

I'm quite the opposite. It doesn't need the constant churn the most other GW games have. Slow and steady is all it needs.

Its got to better than how Asmodee dealt with X Wing and Armada. Though I do not believe the licenses that Embracer has has anything to do with miniatures?

Well the lull started right after the rights sold and only stopped in the last couple of months. So the timing matches. Although it wouldn't surprise me either if it got kicked to the curb for old world yadda yadda and the staff have finally been let free of that.

callidusx3 wrote:
Unless GW does a 180 in how it manages MEsbg, I am not happy that it is keeping the license.

I'm curious, and this is a discussion board - "does a 180" is a nice soundbite, but what specific changes would you want to see in how GW manages MESBG (and the associated model ranges)?

callidusx3 wrote:Unless GW does a 180 in how it manages MEsbg, I am not happy that it is keeping the license.

Inquisitor Gideon wrote:I'm quite the opposite. It doesn't need the constant churn the most other GW games have. Slow and steady is all it needs.

There's a wide middle ground there though. What I'm seeing GW do for AoS looks actively damaging, removing miniatures from the range many would still consider "new", and updating rules at such a pace that the only winners are owners of paper mills. While I appreciate the stability of the rules in MESBG, the miniature production could use more investment and effort. MESBG was my first wargaming love, and I admire many sculpts in the range, a testament to the Perry twins terrific skill and love for their work.

However. When planning some projects in the last few years, I have noticed I am increasingly put off by the prospect of using the 20-year-old sculpts. Their details may be as sharp as they were two decades ago, but they are constrained by having been made to be monopose, in 1-2 parts, with no weapon options, command bits, or generally any variation, in those sets. For 15 years, I have been happy to chop them up, switch out weapons, and repose them myself, but why go through that effort when I can just buy a box of Oathmark orcs that save me the effort? Unfortunately, not all of Middle-earth (in races or designs) is available elsewhere (yet), but I am amazed at how little GW seems to care about retaining their place in the market for such a rich and recognizable IP.

Not to mention Finecast. They have been re-releasing sets in metal for Old World now, despite some being available in Finecast when last available, and I for one would be very happy if they did that for MESBG too (for basic infantry and things at least).

one of the bigger changes would be to update the 20 year old miniature ranges with modern gaming miniatures, though I am not sure if GW is still able to do that (as their model focus goes into a different direction)

also keeping things available and add in marketing as by now the best game they have is only driven by word of mouth

that they leave the rules were they are and not burn them every 3 years is a given, but not sure if GW is able to make updates on models without going into the book release cycle again

 Coenus Scaldingus wrote:


Not to mention Finecast. They have been re-releasing sets in metal for Old World now, despite some being available in Finecast when last available, and I for one would be very happy if they did that for MESBG too (for basic infantry and things at least).

Pretty sure they did. Many things that came back through range rotation or MTO were put back into metal. The only things never going to metal are things that were already failcast at release.

Also concerning monoposes... yes, I agree, but GW started to do monoposes for 40K and AoS as well, so unfortunately it's pretty unlikely we'd see multiposes, even if they redid the range.

I think the realities of IP licensing probably preclude the likelihood of GW doing a significant revamp of the miniatures range. Doing an extensive refresh of the minis range is a significant capital investment, but there probably isn't as much demand behind the game to justify that expenditure at this stage given the reduced margins associated with licensed goods, likewise the uncertainty behind the license lifespan probably makes gw risk averse to making that investment with the hope of recouping the costs over the molds lifetime, etc.