chaos0xomega wrote: They are leaving so much money on the table by just joking around about this
I do think that the eventual Famine-related Eldritch faction might have a similar sort of vibe but the fishgnomes themselves are just a bit too silly to have an actual place in the setting they've built. Happily see this sculpt (or a small batch) released as a novelty set but I can't see how they'd seriously put them in the game.
Yeah, don't really see what about fish gnomes doesn't already fit the established vibe of the lore and setting. Don't really see whats silly about them, they could have been made to look very silly, but instead they look appropriately grimdark and mildly terrifying.
I see the low vs high fantasy debate from WHFB has finally made it to Conquest, I think that means the game has hit the big tie.
Maybe the low fantasy crowd should just take their lumps and go play ASOIF, seems to be the most reliably "low" fantasy option out there (though granted it still has hints of high fantasy present).
You can tell that they improved their modeling skills over time. The Apex and the Ice Jotan looks so much better than the Abomination and the other Jotan.
The Ice Jotun is a resin kit compared to the other Jotun which is the plastic one.Which would explain the difference in the looks.I think it is harder to get a good look with plastic kits and they do seem to be improving with each new release.
Hm, that image makes the Hellbringer look a lot larger than it really is. I think they are trying to set up a progression-style pic but the reality is the Apex Predator is a superior kit in quality & value.
They lined it up based on release order, The Apex Predator is the superior kit because it was sculpted and tooled after the Hellbringer Drake, but released before it because of various production delays associated with the Drake. Their positions should be swapped.
chaos0xomega wrote: They lined it up based on release order, The Apex Predator is the superior kit because it was sculpted and tooled after the Hellbringer Drake, but released before it because of various production delays associated with the Drake. Their positions should be swapped.
Yes the Hellbringer should be next to the Mountain Jotnar. It was probably the last of the old scultps that wasn't released. Everything from now one should be completely new.
Dam, it confirms my concern that it is a bunch of really cool parts put together in a manner which simply looks bland to me. I just see a mash of different themes thrown in without a cohesive concept. Coupled with the inevitable price tag* it isn't looking good from my perspective. Entirely subjective though, maybe I'm the odd one out.
*Unfortunate that PB is going towards GW price levels so quickly.
Well, up until 3-6 months ago they were probably operating at a loss (and quite possibly still could be) - including offering various entires into the game by way of what were almost certainly true loss-leaders. It could be that the established community has finally hit whatever threshold they needed for them to feel they hit "critical mass" and the games growth will now be a function of its size rather than the cost-effectiveness of getting into it... or it could be that their accountant told them they were heading towards bankruptcy if they didn't set more realistic price points.
chaos0xomega wrote: Well, up until 3-6 months ago they were probably operating at a loss (and quite possibly still could be) - including offering various entires into the game by way of what were almost certainly true loss-leaders. It could be that the established community has finally hit whatever threshold they needed for them to feel they hit "critical mass" and the games growth will now be a function of its size rather than the cost-effectiveness of getting into it... or it could be that their accountant told them they were heading towards bankruptcy if they didn't set more realistic price points.
They should hire Wargames Atlantic’s accountant, then. He seems to know more about selling miniatures.
WA is selling generic miniatures that anyone can use across a huge cross section of games, PB is sellinga game and miniatures very specifically for that game.
For me it is just about product vs price. Does the quality & quantity of miniatures I am getting justify the price paid? Certainly I am willing to give a new company/small business some benefit of the doubt, but PB is out of that grace period and quite explicitly aiming to be one of the bigger things out there--that means they are going to be compared as such.
chaos0xomega wrote: WA is selling generic miniatures that anyone can use across a huge cross section of games, PB is sellinga game and miniatures very specifically for that game.
The two are not the same.
To me, it sounds like Conquest has a smaller, more delicate target customer base. Shouldn’t they try to make the product more appealing outside of a narrow niche rather than less appealing?
Nice to see how well-rounded they all are, at least within the admittedly narrow confines of only models that have been officially released. I like that there are both combined arms and more specialized forces showing up. Hope to see it continue.
There was a Lore Happy Hour yesterday. They talked about upcoming factions.
To sum it up:
City States (Steampunk Greeks, coming next year)
Weaver Courts (Spires that infused with nature)
Sorcerer Kings (Arabic themed math wizards)
Famine (Cosmic horror Chulhu faction)
NinthMusketeer wrote: For me it is just about product vs price. Does the quality & quantity of miniatures I am getting justify the price paid? Certainly I am willing to give a new company/small business some benefit of the doubt, but PB is out of that grace period and quite explicitly aiming to be one of the bigger things out there--that means they are going to be compared as such.
If they're being compared to "one of the bigger things out there", then the point of comparison is Games Workshop, not Wargames Atlantic (which is still an extremely small new company), and in that regards PB is competitive.
chaos0xomega wrote: WA is selling generic miniatures that anyone can use across a huge cross section of games, PB is sellinga game and miniatures very specifically for that game.
The two are not the same.
To me, it sounds like Conquest has a smaller, more delicate target customer base. Shouldn’t they try to make the product more appealing outside of a narrow niche rather than less appealing?
PBs product is a game, not miniatures. Wargames Atlantics product is miniatures, not a game. Two completely different business models and target markets and audiences. PB is trying to develop a specific community, following, and brand linked to a specific franchise and IP they have developed. Wargames Atlantic is ultimately just pushing plastic.
I've seen the game generally growing in online communities, but shrinking in my own community - in part due to the game itself being sloppily managed. Can't say price point has been a particular problem, but rules being generally sloppy and it being an "actual rule"(or policy, more like) that discord posts by people with special colored names are RAW until said otherwise has caused people to shy away towards more gamey-games.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: Perhaps I have a distorted view from reading Auticus’ posts as indicative of the community’s opinions, but haven’t they been losing the gamer crowd?
Also, getting shades of Medge, Antares, Mythic Americas, Warcaster neo Mechanika, Dust Warfare, Project Z and all the other “selling the game” games.
I don't say this lightly; do not take Auticus' posts, predictions, or stat breakdowns as anything more than his personal opinion. Whatever analytical methods he uses end up being wrong so often they are of no practical use, and his personal perspective is skewed to say the least.
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Rihgu wrote: I've seen the game generally growing in online communities, but shrinking in my own community - in part due to the game itself being sloppily managed. Can't say price point has been a particular problem, but rules being generally sloppy and it being an "actual rule"(or policy, more like) that discord posts by people with special colored names are RAW until said otherwise has caused people to shy away towards more gamey-games.
Yeah, I know I tried to communicate to them more than once that the sloppy rules writing was a serious problem but I was brushed off. Though to clarify; the game is great, it's the instructions on how to play it that are bad. My advice is to just stick with whatever is on the official documents and disregard anything else.
Rihgu wrote: I've seen the game generally growing in online communities, but shrinking in my own community - in part due to the game itself being sloppily managed. Can't say price point has been a particular problem, but rules being generally sloppy and it being an "actual rule"(or policy, more like) that discord posts by people with special colored names are RAW until said otherwise has caused people to shy away towards more gamey-games.
Yeah, I know I tried to communicate to them more than once that the sloppy rules writing was a serious problem but I was brushed off. Though to clarify; the game is great, it's the instructions on how to play it that are bad. My advice is to just stick with whatever is on the official documents and disregard anything else.
Agreed on all counts. I try to stress the importance of updating RAW to match Discord rulings but get brushed off a lot. There is at least 2 vanguards taking this pretty seriously and as I understand it internally pushing for it, so I'm hoping the next few updates will clear up a lot of the issues.
I'm getting to a point where I may just re-write the whole ruleset (not change any rules, just write them in a way that makes sense) because it would take less effort for me to do that than continually re-explain rules in my local community.
NinthMusketeer wrote: I'm getting to a point where I may just re-write the whole ruleset (not change any rules, just write them in a way that makes sense) because it would take less effort for me to do that than continually re-explain rules in my local community.
Flashbacks to the great debate as to what constitutes a centre of a square Shiver
Yeah absolutely, some rules are just amazingly sloppily put together tbh.
NinthMusketeer wrote: I'm getting to a point where I may just re-write the whole ruleset (not change any rules, just write them in a way that makes sense) because it would take less effort for me to do that than continually re-explain rules in my local community.
Flashbacks to the great debate as to what constitutes a centre of a square Shiver
Yeah absolutely, some rules are just amazingly sloppily put together tbh.
Center of a square or rectangle is easy, but what about a unit with uneven ranks? What is the center of a unit with 3 in the front rank and 1 in the rear? Presumably one would draw the center as if the back rank was full since that is the only practical way to do it, but rules as written...
My small nascent local group thankfully hasn't really encountered the issues you guys speak of. None of us are on the discord (and so haven't encountered the ruling you guys are referring to) - if we can't find clarification in official supporting documentation we mutually agree to a solution that feels right, with the acknowledgement that its a problem with the game itself that will hopefully be addressed by the authors at a future date.
This sort of thing is more or less a problem caused by modern technology - there was a time when rulesets with unclear instruction couldn't be patched in realtime by the authors (or their designated henchmen) via online channels or issued out to the community via an online FAQ, etc. In those days, short of writing a letter to the author (which was encouraged by rulesets which featured mailing addresses for the authors) to get clarification, it was up to your local playgroup to make up an agreed upon houserule. Ultimately the discord clarifications by vanguards or whatever is just an overglorified houserule and not one that is universally recognized (my local group is hardly the only one out there that has no discord presence) - feel free to ignore them and fix the problems you encounter locally.
chaos0xomega wrote: My small nascent local group thankfully hasn't really encountered the issues you guys speak of. None of us are on the discord (and so haven't encountered the ruling you guys are referring to) - if we can't find clarification in official supporting documentation we mutually agree to a solution that feels right, with the acknowledgement that its a problem with the game itself that will hopefully be addressed by the authors at a future date.
And really the Conquest ruleset works totally fine because of this. The actual rules issues are generally solved with a bit of common sense (see above) which won't work if Conquest wants to move more towards tournaments being a thing but are plenty good enough for regular people playing regular games.
The real problem is the wording. Even rules that are mechanically airtight often end up explained in such a convoluted fashion the average person needs to read it twice. That is before getting into counterintuitive elements or places where complexity has been artificially created (line of sight for shooting comes to mind). The bedrock, how the rules work and how gameplay unfolds, are excellent. A few rough edges sure, but overall a very well designed game. That is the hardest part and something PB does quite well--making it all the more mystifying that they could mess up so badly on the comparatively simple task of explaining those rules.
I don't say this lightly; do not take Auticus' posts, predictions, or stat breakdowns as anything more than his personal opinion. Whatever analytical methods he uses end up being wrong so often they are of no practical use, and his personal perspective is skewed to say the least.
While everything anyone says is their own personal opinion, you better have some backup of all the things that I am "frequently wrong about" other than your own skewed and biased opinion or you may soon find out about slander and how you can be held accountable for it.
Even when you think you are anonymous behind a keyboard on the internet.
I don't say this lightly; do not take Auticus' posts, predictions, or stat breakdowns as anything more than his personal opinion. Whatever analytical methods he uses end up being wrong so often they are of no practical use, and his personal perspective is skewed to say the least.
While everything anyone says is their own personal opinion, you better have some backup of all the things that I am "frequently wrong about" other than your own skewed and biased opinion or you may soon find out about slander and how you can be held accountable for it.
Even when you think you are anonymous behind a keyboard on the internet.
"Pit of shades is the best Daughters of Khaine spell because it does mortal wounds!"
I don't say this lightly; do not take Auticus' posts, predictions, or stat breakdowns as anything more than his personal opinion. Whatever analytical methods he uses end up being wrong so often they are of no practical use, and his personal perspective is skewed to say the least.
While everything anyone says is their own personal opinion, you better have some backup of all the things that I am "frequently wrong about" other than your own skewed and biased opinion or you may soon find out about slander and how you can be held accountable for it.
Even when you think you are anonymous behind a keyboard on the internet.
Lol. Now this is prime. I mean, the person you are quoting is on my block list for a reason, but this statement is laughably internet tough guy strong. Also they are right. Your wounded pride that PB didn't feel you deserved as much praise and credit as you thought you did when the game was brand new is really old. Probably should step away or chill out.
chaos0xomega wrote: My small nascent local group thankfully hasn't really encountered the issues you guys speak of. None of us are on the discord (and so haven't encountered the ruling you guys are referring to) - if we can't find clarification in official supporting documentation we mutually agree to a solution that feels right, with the acknowledgement that its a problem with the game itself that will hopefully be addressed by the authors at a future date.
This sort of thing is more or less a problem caused by modern technology - there was a time when rulesets with unclear instruction couldn't be patched in realtime by the authors (or their designated henchmen) via online channels or issued out to the community via an online FAQ, etc. In those days, short of writing a letter to the author (which was encouraged by rulesets which featured mailing addresses for the authors) to get clarification, it was up to your local playgroup to make up an agreed upon houserule. Ultimately the discord clarifications by vanguards or whatever is just an overglorified houserule and not one that is universally recognized (my local group is hardly the only one out there that has no discord presence) - feel free to ignore them and fix the problems you encounter locally.
That just makes it the opposite problem. Instead:
A: Okay, I do this for my turn.
B: Actually, that came up on Discord and the PB staff clarified it actually works this way.
A: uh, that's directly contradictory to the rules text?
B: I know, but the green name said it
A: Is it in an FAQ document?
B: No, but the green name said it.
A: Ooookay. I... will go play ASOIAF.
It is:
A: I asked on Discord the other day and PB staff told me it works like this.
B: Ah, we don't do that here.
A: do what?
B: We play by RAW/have our own house rules.
A: So... you don't play Conquest as the devs intend it?
B: No.
A: Okay... I think I'll just go play ASOIAF.
It works for a small play group but is painful for a group trying to grow.
edit: to be clear, when it's just me and my 2 buds playing we play the way we like to play. That doesn't work when we play "public games".
I don't say this lightly; do not take Auticus' posts, predictions, or stat breakdowns as anything more than his personal opinion. Whatever analytical methods he uses end up being wrong so often they are of no practical use, and his personal perspective is skewed to say the least.
While everything anyone says is their own personal opinion, you better have some backup of all the things that I am "frequently wrong about" other than your own skewed and biased opinion or you may soon find out about slander and how you can be held accountable for it.
Even when you think you are anonymous behind a keyboard on the internet.
Lol. Now this is prime. I mean, the person you are quoting is on my block list for a reason, but this statement is laughably internet tough guy strong. Also they are right. Your wounded pride that PB didn't feel you deserved as much praise and credit as you thought you did when the game was brand new is really old. Probably should step away or chill out.
I am not sure where you are coming from about my wounded pride about me not deserving praise and credit. I certainly have never voiced any of that or where any of this is coming from since none of that was even being talked about. I was a paid affiliate and at the top of the vanguard tier structure; if I have any problems with PB - not being given credit or whatever was certainly not one of them.
Evidence? Well let's compare something from earlier in this very thread to those tourney lists:
auticus wrote: This isn't about cavalry bonusees overperforming.
Its an added bonus. it doesn't have to be overperforming. Its still greater than zero impact, while infantry gets zero impact from it.
As an item greater than zero, it becomes more desirable. From a powergamer's perspective, thats all it takes to spam. An item with 0 in the column vs an item with a value > 0 in the column will be on paper more attractive depending on the point cost associated.
Cavalry and brutes in addition to the impact hit bonus have the added speed bonus to get to objectives fast, which is the prime game for almost all of the scenarios.
Cavalry brutes in addition to those two factors do not degrade their attacks like infantry does.
There are many factors that go into why cavalry and brutes outperform infantry and make them more desirable from a powergamer's perspective.
Once the tournament meta starts churning, this is how games become all about that one thing in the long run.
Or further back, when characters were going to be dominating the scene (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plCVLomM3t8&t=1011s at 16:30 is when he begins speaking on the topic). Or when PB asked Auticus not to focus on the negative when representing the game as a Vanguard and he decried that as them asking him to lie when they were just asking him, as someone who signed up to promote the game, to promote the game. I recall one of my first red flags was when he did a video reviewing the Fire Forged stats when the models first came out, and suggested they were a bit underpowered; the unit was subsequently nerfed, in essence going from a 2+ save to a 3+, because of how overpowered it was.
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caladancid wrote: I mean, the person you are quoting is on my block list for a reason
For the record, I can think of several bad reasons for this to be the case but also quite a lot of good ones. I'm hardly proud of my own post history and am sorry you had a bad experience.
You've just pointed out water is wet and the sky is blue.
Those are in fact my opinions. Thats the whole point of doing content videos - to post opinions. Shocking - sometimes opinions are wrong. If you actually watched my videos other than cherry picking what you want to get your rocks off you'll find probably a half dozen instances of me talking about those stats and how they aren't the whole story. The whole reason I did that series was because individuals such as yourself cherry pick the things you want to - and I wanted to make it crystal clear about the whole tangible vs intangible thing and how I double underlined that in the presentation itself about how those cannot be the whole story.
Also your take on what happened in those private conversations between myself and PB and the conversation you are trying to parade around as if you know what happened and are privy to that conversation are laughable at best and are a gross distortion of the communication that occurred - of which you have zero content and zero inkling and are just running your little mouth like you like to do.
Keep my name out of your mouth / keyboard. There is zero reason why you should have been talking about me at this point in this thread other than to troll.
chaos0xomega wrote: My small nascent local group thankfully hasn't really encountered the issues you guys speak of. None of us are on the discord (and so haven't encountered the ruling you guys are referring to) - if we can't find clarification in official supporting documentation we mutually agree to a solution that feels right, with the acknowledgement that its a problem with the game itself that will hopefully be addressed by the authors at a future date.
This sort of thing is more or less a problem caused by modern technology - there was a time when rulesets with unclear instruction couldn't be patched in realtime by the authors (or their designated henchmen) via online channels or issued out to the community via an online FAQ, etc. In those days, short of writing a letter to the author (which was encouraged by rulesets which featured mailing addresses for the authors) to get clarification, it was up to your local playgroup to make up an agreed upon houserule. Ultimately the discord clarifications by vanguards or whatever is just an overglorified houserule and not one that is universally recognized (my local group is hardly the only one out there that has no discord presence) - feel free to ignore them and fix the problems you encounter locally.
That just makes it the opposite problem. Instead:
A: Okay, I do this for my turn.
B: Actually, that came up on Discord and the PB staff clarified it actually works this way.
A: uh, that's directly contradictory to the rules text?
B: I know, but the green name said it
A: Is it in an FAQ document?
B: No, but the green name said it.
A: Ooookay. I... will go play ASOIAF.
It is:
A: I asked on Discord the other day and PB staff told me it works like this.
B: Ah, we don't do that here.
A: do what?
B: We play by RAW/have our own house rules.
A: So... you don't play Conquest as the devs intend it?
B: No.
A: Okay... I think I'll just go play ASOIAF.
It works for a small play group but is painful for a group trying to grow.
edit: to be clear, when it's just me and my 2 buds playing we play the way we like to play. That doesn't work when we play "public games".
Yeah, no. The only "outsiders" we've had show up to play with our group are similarly not on discord and mostly had interpreted the rules uncertainties the same way we did (and where they didn't we ended up splitting the difference and agreeing with their view on a bunch and they ended up agreeing with us on a bunch). Otherwise everyone else here is "local" - they either started as part of the group that decided to play Conquest, or they joined us afterwards as a result of us pushing the game. Not everyone hooks in directly to social media channels on these games, in fact I would say it seems that most do not.
Also "green name on discord said it" != "as the devs intended it".
Keep my name out of your mouth / keyboard. There is zero reason why you should have been talking about me at this point in this thread other than to troll.
Will Smith!!?? I figured you might be into the hobby after seeing White Dwarf in Enemy of the State, but I didn't think you were this deep in.
chaos0xomega wrote: My small nascent local group thankfully hasn't really encountered the issues you guys speak of. None of us are on the discord (and so haven't encountered the ruling you guys are referring to) - if we can't find clarification in official supporting documentation we mutually agree to a solution that feels right, with the acknowledgement that its a problem with the game itself that will hopefully be addressed by the authors at a future date.
This sort of thing is more or less a problem caused by modern technology - there was a time when rulesets with unclear instruction couldn't be patched in realtime by the authors (or their designated henchmen) via online channels or issued out to the community via an online FAQ, etc. In those days, short of writing a letter to the author (which was encouraged by rulesets which featured mailing addresses for the authors) to get clarification, it was up to your local playgroup to make up an agreed upon houserule. Ultimately the discord clarifications by vanguards or whatever is just an overglorified houserule and not one that is universally recognized (my local group is hardly the only one out there that has no discord presence) - feel free to ignore them and fix the problems you encounter locally.
That just makes it the opposite problem. Instead:
A: Okay, I do this for my turn.
B: Actually, that came up on Discord and the PB staff clarified it actually works this way.
A: uh, that's directly contradictory to the rules text?
B: I know, but the green name said it
A: Is it in an FAQ document?
B: No, but the green name said it.
A: Ooookay. I... will go play ASOIAF.
It is:
A: I asked on Discord the other day and PB staff told me it works like this.
B: Ah, we don't do that here.
A: do what?
B: We play by RAW/have our own house rules.
A: So... you don't play Conquest as the devs intend it?
B: No.
A: Okay... I think I'll just go play ASOIAF.
It works for a small play group but is painful for a group trying to grow.
edit: to be clear, when it's just me and my 2 buds playing we play the way we like to play. That doesn't work when we play "public games".
Yeah, no. The only "outsiders" we've had show up to play with our group are similarly not on discord and mostly had interpreted the rules uncertainties the same way we did (and where they didn't we ended up splitting the difference and agreeing with their view on a bunch and they ended up agreeing with us on a bunch). Otherwise everyone else here is "local" - they either started as part of the group that decided to play Conquest, or they joined us afterwards as a result of us pushing the game. Not everyone hooks in directly to social media channels on these games, in fact I would say it seems that most do not.
Also "green name on discord said it" != "as the devs intended it".
That's great for you, but does not match my lived experience.
Also,
3) If the question persists then please know that answers that come from members of the
Para Bellum team @Retail Relationship Team @Conquest Relationship Manager @Community Manager
always supercede and are considered official and final until later revision by the team.
(Retail Relationship Team is a green name)
There official rules are literally that a green name's word is law until it hits a PDF. It's emphasized multiple times that green names *are* PB staff, and PB are the devs. Therefore, if a green name makes a ruling, as part of the dev team, that is as the devs intend it.
chaos0xomega wrote: My small nascent local group thankfully hasn't really encountered the issues you guys speak of. None of us are on the discord (and so haven't encountered the ruling you guys are referring to) - if we can't find clarification in official supporting documentation we mutually agree to a solution that feels right, with the acknowledgement that its a problem with the game itself that will hopefully be addressed by the authors at a future date.
This sort of thing is more or less a problem caused by modern technology - there was a time when rulesets with unclear instruction couldn't be patched in realtime by the authors (or their designated henchmen) via online channels or issued out to the community via an online FAQ, etc. In those days, short of writing a letter to the author (which was encouraged by rulesets which featured mailing addresses for the authors) to get clarification, it was up to your local playgroup to make up an agreed upon houserule. Ultimately the discord clarifications by vanguards or whatever is just an overglorified houserule and not one that is universally recognized (my local group is hardly the only one out there that has no discord presence) - feel free to ignore them and fix the problems you encounter locally.
That just makes it the opposite problem. Instead:
A: Okay, I do this for my turn.
B: Actually, that came up on Discord and the PB staff clarified it actually works this way.
A: uh, that's directly contradictory to the rules text?
B: I know, but the green name said it
A: Is it in an FAQ document?
B: No, but the green name said it.
A: Ooookay. I... will go play ASOIAF.
It is:
A: I asked on Discord the other day and PB staff told me it works like this.
B: Ah, we don't do that here.
A: do what?
B: We play by RAW/have our own house rules.
A: So... you don't play Conquest as the devs intend it?
B: No.
A: Okay... I think I'll just go play ASOIAF.
It works for a small play group but is painful for a group trying to grow.
edit: to be clear, when it's just me and my 2 buds playing we play the way we like to play. That doesn't work when we play "public games".
Yeah, no. The only "outsiders" we've had show up to play with our group are similarly not on discord and mostly had interpreted the rules uncertainties the same way we did (and where they didn't we ended up splitting the difference and agreeing with their view on a bunch and they ended up agreeing with us on a bunch). Otherwise everyone else here is "local" - they either started as part of the group that decided to play Conquest, or they joined us afterwards as a result of us pushing the game. Not everyone hooks in directly to social media channels on these games, in fact I would say it seems that most do not.
Also "green name on discord said it" != "as the devs intended it".
That's great for you, but does not match my lived experience.
Thankfully the world doesn't revolve around you and your opinion on the matter has no impact on how my local group -which, like many, is disconnected from discord and the broader community - plays. Amazing how that works, no?
Also,
3) If the question persists then please know that answers that come from members of the
Para Bellum team @Retail Relationship Team @Conquest Relationship Manager @Community Manager
always supercede and are considered official and final until later revision by the team.
(Retail Relationship Team is a green name)
There official rules are literally that a green name's word is law until it hits a PDF. It's emphasized multiple times that green names *are* PB staff, and PB are the devs. Therefore, if a green name makes a ruling, as part of the dev team, that is as the devs intend it.
Is that in a rulebook? No? Then none of the people in the group have ever seen it and it effectively does not exist. Thanks for playing.
You've just pointed out water is wet and the sky is blue.
Those are in fact my opinions. Thats the whole point of doing content videos - to post opinions. Shocking - sometimes opinions are wrong. If you actually watched my videos other than cherry picking what you want to get your rocks off you'll find probably a half dozen instances of me talking about those stats and how they aren't the whole story. The whole reason I did that series was because individuals such as yourself cherry pick the things you want to - and I wanted to make it crystal clear about the whole tangible vs intangible thing and how I double underlined that in the presentation itself about how those cannot be the whole story.
Also your take on what happened in those private conversations between myself and PB and the conversation you are trying to parade around as if you know what happened and are privy to that conversation are laughable at best and are a gross distortion of the communication that occurred - of which you have zero content and zero inkling and are just running your little mouth like you like to do.
Keep my name out of your mouth / keyboard. There is zero reason why you should have been talking about me at this point in this thread other than to troll.
I don't know what was said in private; I'm referencing things you put in videos. At any rate, obviously we are going to disagree and if you feel it is trolling then report it and the mods can sort it out. I can certainly say I have been more polite about it. And besides, it is just my opinion.
chaos0xomega wrote: My small nascent local group thankfully hasn't really encountered the issues you guys speak of. None of us are on the discord (and so haven't encountered the ruling you guys are referring to) - if we can't find clarification in official supporting documentation we mutually agree to a solution that feels right, with the acknowledgement that its a problem with the game itself that will hopefully be addressed by the authors at a future date.
This sort of thing is more or less a problem caused by modern technology - there was a time when rulesets with unclear instruction couldn't be patched in realtime by the authors (or their designated henchmen) via online channels or issued out to the community via an online FAQ, etc. In those days, short of writing a letter to the author (which was encouraged by rulesets which featured mailing addresses for the authors) to get clarification, it was up to your local playgroup to make up an agreed upon houserule. Ultimately the discord clarifications by vanguards or whatever is just an overglorified houserule and not one that is universally recognized (my local group is hardly the only one out there that has no discord presence) - feel free to ignore them and fix the problems you encounter locally.
That just makes it the opposite problem. Instead:
A: Okay, I do this for my turn.
B: Actually, that came up on Discord and the PB staff clarified it actually works this way.
A: uh, that's directly contradictory to the rules text?
B: I know, but the green name said it
A: Is it in an FAQ document?
B: No, but the green name said it.
A: Ooookay. I... will go play ASOIAF.
It is:
A: I asked on Discord the other day and PB staff told me it works like this.
B: Ah, we don't do that here.
A: do what?
B: We play by RAW/have our own house rules.
A: So... you don't play Conquest as the devs intend it?
B: No.
A: Okay... I think I'll just go play ASOIAF.
It works for a small play group but is painful for a group trying to grow.
edit: to be clear, when it's just me and my 2 buds playing we play the way we like to play. That doesn't work when we play "public games".
Yeah, no. The only "outsiders" we've had show up to play with our group are similarly not on discord and mostly had interpreted the rules uncertainties the same way we did (and where they didn't we ended up splitting the difference and agreeing with their view on a bunch and they ended up agreeing with us on a bunch). Otherwise everyone else here is "local" - they either started as part of the group that decided to play Conquest, or they joined us afterwards as a result of us pushing the game. Not everyone hooks in directly to social media channels on these games, in fact I would say it seems that most do not.
Also "green name on discord said it" != "as the devs intended it".
That's great for you, but does not match my lived experience.
Thankfully the world doesn't revolve around you and your opinion on the matter has no impact on how my local group -which, like many, is disconnected from discord and the broader community - plays. Amazing how that works, no?
Also,
3) If the question persists then please know that answers that come from members of the
Para Bellum team @Retail Relationship Team @Conquest Relationship Manager @Community Manager
always supercede and are considered official and final until later revision by the team.
(Retail Relationship Team is a green name)
There official rules are literally that a green name's word is law until it hits a PDF. It's emphasized multiple times that green names *are* PB staff, and PB are the devs. Therefore, if a green name makes a ruling, as part of the dev team, that is as the devs intend it.
Is that in a rulebook? No? Then none of the people in the group have ever seen it and it effectively does not exist. Thanks for playing.
You gave advice. I told you why it wouldn't work for me. Why are you replying like this?
I thought I was pretty clear from the beginning that what I was describing was how my Conquest group (and others we have encountered) have engaged with the game and that it works for us. You seem to be bothered by this and have been trying to demonstrate or argue that we are wrong for doing so.
chaos0xomega wrote: My small nascent local group thankfully hasn't really encountered the issues you guys speak of. None of us are on the discord (and so haven't encountered the ruling you guys are referring to) - if we can't find clarification in official supporting documentation we mutually agree to a solution that feels right, with the acknowledgement that its a problem with the game itself that will hopefully be addressed by the authors at a future date.
This sort of thing is more or less a problem caused by modern technology - there was a time when rulesets with unclear instruction couldn't be patched in realtime by the authors (or their designated henchmen) via online channels or issued out to the community via an online FAQ, etc. In those days, short of writing a letter to the author (which was encouraged by rulesets which featured mailing addresses for the authors) to get clarification, it was up to your local playgroup to make up an agreed upon houserule. Ultimately the discord clarifications by vanguards or whatever is just an overglorified houserule and not one that is universally recognized (my local group is hardly the only one out there that has no discord presence) - feel free to ignore them and fix the problems you encounter locally.
That just makes it the opposite problem. Instead:
A: Okay, I do this for my turn.
B: Actually, that came up on Discord and the PB staff clarified it actually works this way.
A: uh, that's directly contradictory to the rules text?
B: I know, but the green name said it
A: Is it in an FAQ document?
B: No, but the green name said it.
A: Ooookay. I... will go play ASOIAF.
It is:
A: I asked on Discord the other day and PB staff told me it works like this.
B: Ah, we don't do that here.
A: do what?
B: We play by RAW/have our own house rules.
A: So... you don't play Conquest as the devs intend it?
B: No.
A: Okay... I think I'll just go play ASOIAF.
It works for a small play group but is painful for a group trying to grow.
edit: to be clear, when it's just me and my 2 buds playing we play the way we like to play. That doesn't work when we play "public games".
Yeah, no. The only "outsiders" we've had show up to play with our group are similarly not on discord and mostly had interpreted the rules uncertainties the same way we did (and where they didn't we ended up splitting the difference and agreeing with their view on a bunch and they ended up agreeing with us on a bunch). Otherwise everyone else here is "local" - they either started as part of the group that decided to play Conquest, or they joined us afterwards as a result of us pushing the game. Not everyone hooks in directly to social media channels on these games, in fact I would say it seems that most do not.
Also "green name on discord said it" != "as the devs intended it".
That's great for you, but does not match my lived experience.
Thankfully the world doesn't revolve around you and your opinion on the matter has no impact on how my local group -which, like many, is disconnected from discord and the broader community - plays. Amazing how that works, no?
Also,
3) If the question persists then please know that answers that come from members of the
Para Bellum team @Retail Relationship Team @Conquest Relationship Manager @Community Manager
always supercede and are considered official and final until later revision by the team.
(Retail Relationship Team is a green name)
There official rules are literally that a green name's word is law until it hits a PDF. It's emphasized multiple times that green names *are* PB staff, and PB are the devs. Therefore, if a green name makes a ruling, as part of the dev team, that is as the devs intend it.
Is that in a rulebook? No? Then none of the people in the group have ever seen it and it effectively does not exist. Thanks for playing.
You gave advice. I told you why it wouldn't work for me. Why are you replying like this?
The way it was phrased made it seem like you were suggesting it didn't work at all. I personally didn't read his intent as to offer advice; only to comment on his own experience. Seems like a case of miscommunication.
The last version of TLAoK (1.5.1) was done by Leo, the community manager. I suggest to take a look and send him any feedback you have. It is the most clear written version of Conquest yet.
Old Dominion are undead right? I suppose it's ok to skip leg day when you're a mummy. All joking aside, I do like the sculpt other than the thin limbs.
warboss wrote: Old Dominion are undead right? I suppose it's ok to skip leg day when you're a mummy. All joking aside, I do like the sculpt other than the thin limbs.
Yes, the thin limbs are intentional; there's no flesh under those wrappings.
At any rate, cool mini. Glad he's in resin, those details will look really nice.
warboss wrote: Old Dominion are undead right? I suppose it's ok to skip leg day when you're a mummy. All joking aside, I do like the sculpt other than the thin limbs.
Yes, the thin limbs are intentional; there's no flesh under those wrappings.
At any rate, cool mini. Glad he's in resin, those details will look really nice.
chaos0xomega wrote: tbh i like this version of the strategos more than the LE version
I dunno, the LE Strategos has more personality to me.
This one comes with a shield though, which does match his datasheet. It was really perplexing to me at first when I saw the stats for the Strategos and noticed an absence of shield on the model, but then I noticed that previous version of the model was Limited Edition and not the standard.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: I still don't like the design. Look too much like dreadnaughts to me.
I mean dreads are supposed to be walking tombs/sarcophagi, right ...
I like the care that went into making them look like roman graves with the uncanny portrait of the deceased reclining in the middle of the hulking thing ...
CthuluIsSpy wrote: I still don't like the design. Look too much like dreadnaughts to me.
I mean dreads are supposed to be walking tombs/sarcophagi, right ...
I like the care that went into making them look like roman graves with the uncanny portrait of the deceased reclining in the middle of the hulking thing ...
Yeah, but they could have made them a little less dreadnought-like. Maybe make them more humanoid to fit the Golem idea a little more. Basically an upright sarcophagus with big thick legs and arms, instead of a thick square with stubby legs and arms.
Basically if you take the silhouette of a Dreadnaught and a Bone Golem it can be hard to tell them apart.
I really like the design, don't like that paint job with the different reds all blending together but that's a minor quibble. Would've liked more robust legs or a full commitment to gorilla style, that isn't enough to stop them looking good in my eyes.
What makes me shudder is anticipation of the price.
NinthMusketeer wrote: I really like the design, don't like that paint job with the different reds all blending together but that's a minor quibble. Would've liked more robust legs or a full commitment to gorilla style, that isn't enough to stop them looking good in my eyes.
What makes me shudder is anticipation of the price.
It can be € 47.99 if they decide to go with the Avatara/Inferno Automata priceband, or € 124.99, if they decide to price them like Incarnate Sentinels
NinthMusketeer wrote: I really like the design, don't like that paint job with the different reds all blending together but that's a minor quibble. Would've liked more robust legs or a full commitment to gorilla style, that isn't enough to stop them looking good in my eyes.
What makes me shudder is anticipation of the price.
It can be € 47.99 if they decide to go with the Avatara/Inferno Automata priceband, or € 124.99, if they decide to price them like Incarnate Sentinels
Excuse me, they are that much? Was there a price hike or something? That seems pretty extreme for 3 models. That's like GW prices.
NinthMusketeer wrote: I really like the design, don't like that paint job with the different reds all blending together but that's a minor quibble. Would've liked more robust legs or a full commitment to gorilla style, that isn't enough to stop them looking good in my eyes.
What makes me shudder is anticipation of the price.
It can be € 47.99 if they decide to go with the Avatara/Inferno Automata priceband, or € 124.99, if they decide to price them like Incarnate Sentinels
Excuse me, they are that much?
Was there a price hike or something? That seems pretty extreme for 3 models.
That's like GW prices.
NinthMusketeer wrote: I really like the design, don't like that paint job with the different reds all blending together but that's a minor quibble. Would've liked more robust legs or a full commitment to gorilla style, that isn't enough to stop them looking good in my eyes.
What makes me shudder is anticipation of the price.
It can be € 47.99 if they decide to go with the Avatara/Inferno Automata priceband, or € 124.99, if they decide to price them like Incarnate Sentinels
Excuse me, they are that much?
Was there a price hike or something? That seems pretty extreme for 3 models.
That's like GW prices.
The incarnate sentinels are resin, so basically collector models in all but name. But yes there was a price hike, and they elected to do standardized pricing based on unit type without taking into account the actual quality of the kit (IMO a big issue, considering the rather poor quality of their early releases that currently occupy much of the range). It is also a situation where the larger scale can lead to sticker shock--that price for 3 'monstrous infantry' models seems like a lot but they are really much larger; each of those bone golems is the size of a dreadnaught.
NinthMusketeer wrote: I really like the design, don't like that paint job with the different reds all blending together but that's a minor quibble. Would've liked more robust legs or a full commitment to gorilla style, that isn't enough to stop them looking good in my eyes.
What makes me shudder is anticipation of the price.
It can be € 47.99 if they decide to go with the Avatara/Inferno Automata priceband, or € 124.99, if they decide to price them like Incarnate Sentinels
Excuse me, they are that much?
Was there a price hike or something? That seems pretty extreme for 3 models.
That's like GW prices.
The incarnate sentinels are resin, so basically collector models in all but name. But yes there was a price hike, and they elected to do standardized pricing based on unit type without taking into account the actual quality of the kit (IMO a big issue, considering the rather poor quality of their early releases that currently occupy much of the range). It is also a situation where the larger scale can lead to sticker shock--that price for 3 'monstrous infantry' models seems like a lot but they are really much larger; each of those bone golems is the size of a dreadnaught.
Price wise they are about the same as 3 dreadnaughts too.
If they are resin that would explain the price though.
Up on their website; looks like they are plastic and $50 for 3. For some reason I was thinking they were going to be resin, as nice as their resin is I'm happy to be wrong.
NinthMusketeer wrote: Up on their website; looks like they are plastic and $50 for 3. For some reason I was thinking they were going to be resin, as nice as their resin is I'm happy to be wrong.
According to PB, resin will be only for collector stuff (and command models) from now on. Production has risen so much it is not viable for units and characters. They are remaking Bow Chosen to plastic for that reason.
I am waiting for Old Dominion's black tearing female statue and burning angel statue, which have been introduced since the early announcement of the faction
But, there is no notice of retail release until October.
Are these the Caryatid and Canephor on the Army List?
So, with every single actual model we saw thus far being up on the shop, I guess we're going to have to wait for another wave of relases for the rest of Old Dominion's units?
vultute wrote:I am waiting for Old Dominion's black tearing female statue and burning angel statue, which have been introduced since the early announcement of the faction
But, there is no notice of retail release until October.
Are these the Caryatid and Canephor on the Army List?
As I understand it, the female statue is a caryatid and the burning angel statue is a canephor. We haven't seen any yet, but the buccepholoi are said to be undead minotaurs. Given the (presumed) scarcity of preserved minotaur parts, I'm hoping they will be heavily reinforced with bits of statues and rubble.
From the hints being dropped on the Discord, I don't think Canephors, Caryatids, or Buccepholoi are likely to release this year - here's hoping that's not the case, because I really want to see them on the table.
Wha-Mu-077 wrote:So, with every single actual model we saw thus far being up on the shop, I guess we're going to have to wait for another wave of relases for the rest of Old Dominion's units?
Someone from PB mentioned that around August there should be another catalog coming out to list Sept-Dec releases. Should include things like Onslaught Drones/Bound Clones, possibly an Order Knight kit, and some more OD stuff, among others. Given the somewhat sudden announcement of the Optio and non-LE Strategos models, maybe some other OD command models might get quietly put up in the coming months, too?
All of these previews are a few months old by now, but I don't think they actually ever got posted here, and I checked far back to see all the rest of the stuff that was revealed on the same Happy Hour
A new High Clone Executor (in Plastic!), and some renders and concept art for future Drones (Bound and Onslaught); all for the Spires, obviously.
NinthMusketeer wrote: I'm hoping they consider easing up on the new faction releases and focus more on model support for the existing ones.
I mean
They have things planned in the closest future for the Dweghom, the 100K and the Spires
So I think it's a pretty safe bet they're supporting the existing ones still
The W’adrhŭn one seems to be just a half of their One Player Starter Set, and the Old Dominion is basically the same, except with the Archimadrite exchanged for Xhilliarch. Very interesting
Lots of great looking stuff there. Glad I didn't cave and get the resin bowchosen at the time as their new plastics are pretty damn good. Valkyries and Volva are really nice. Those Imperial Ranger do indeed look very similar to the Longbowmen. Not sure what to make of the new Noble Lord. Wardens are some of the better Dweghom and Old Dominion stuff continues to be awesome.
Stand out has to be the Crimson Tower and the Priory Commander.
The 100k stuff is very mixed to me, cav are awesome but the Rangers...that is a lazy decision to just modify the sculpt of Longbowmen to that little degree.
The 100k stuff is very mixed to me, cav are awesome but the Rangers...that is a lazy decision to just modify the sculpt of Longbowmen to that little degree.
I don't think it's even modified tbh, I just think it's the Longbowmen kit with an upgrade sprue.
And you know what, I say it's a good decision. 100k don't need a dedicated plastic kit for a fourth different flavour of "dudes with crossbows/bows" at the moment, and just giving the Longbowmen/Hunters an upgrade sprue seems to do a serviceable job, while allowing to direct some more resources towards other factions
The 100k stuff is very mixed to me, cav are awesome but the Rangers...that is a lazy decision to just modify the sculpt of Longbowmen to that little degree.
I don't think it's even modified tbh, I just think it's the Longbowmen kit with an upgrade sprue.
And you know what, I say it's a good decision. 100k don't need a dedicated plastic kit for a fourth different flavour of "dudes with crossbows/bows" at the moment, and just giving the Longbowmen/Hunters an upgrade sprue seems to do a serviceable job, while allowing to direct some more resources towards other factions
I'll admit to being a bit disappointed with those Longbowmen when they first came out anyway but it's definitely a case of my expectation being something different than the design being 'bad'. As a relatively elite(ish) unit in the Nobility faction I was anticipating something like Household troops rather than 'bandits'. Turns out the reason for this was previous lore for the unit being that they were in fact conscripted bandits and outlaws but that idea was marginally scrapped but the sculpts were done. Easy enough conversion with militia I suppose (when I get round to it).
This absolutely looks like an alternative arm and head kit for that same set.
NinthMusketeer wrote: I like how they are taking advantage of the stand-based unit layout with the Cenotaph and Initiates.
I dislike that they apparently aren't proofreading unit descriptions
Yeah, it's very interesting seeing attachements for units that take up multiple spots, or units with different equipement dependant on the rank, I hope we see more of that in the future. Should allow for some creative things.
Also it's very interesting that the new High Clone Executor is already painted up and the Bound Clones are already rendered, given just a while ago they were only present in the forms of an unfinished 3D model and concept sketches. Parabellum really works fast
I thought the Undead Faction would be only Old dominion or just add Vampire counts.
Is Parabellum planning to implement a undead enemies of the Northern gods at Ragnarok?
vultute wrote: I thought the Undead Faction would be only Old dominion or just add Vampire counts.
Is Parabellum planning to implement a undead enemies of the Northern gods at Ragnarok?
There was talk of there being another 1-2 undead factions amongst the ~18 total planned, so not out of the question - but I think its unlikely that this is pointing at a faction. We have City States coming in 2023 and Weaver Courts in 2024, I doubt very much that they release any other factions before those two are out, and it wouldn't make sense for them to start spinning up for a faction to be released in 2025 while we still know next to nothing about the two factions coming in 23/24.
chaos0xomega wrote: There was talk of there being another 1-2 undead factions amongst the ~18 total planned, so not out of the question - but I think its unlikely that this is pointing at a faction. We have City States coming in 2023 and Weaver Courts in 2024, I doubt very much that they release any other factions before those two are out, and it wouldn't make sense for them to start spinning up for a faction to be released in 2025 while we still know next to nothing about the two factions coming in 23/24.
I imagine 2024 will have another living world poll that'll decide the 2025, 2026 and 2027 factions
If Parabellum is even around by then, to be honest.
chaos0xomega wrote: There was talk of there being another 1-2 undead factions amongst the ~18 total planned, so not out of the question - but I think its unlikely that this is pointing at a faction. We have City States coming in 2023 and Weaver Courts in 2024, I doubt very much that they release any other factions before those two are out, and it wouldn't make sense for them to start spinning up for a faction to be released in 2025 while we still know next to nothing about the two factions coming in 23/24.
I imagine 2024 will have another living world poll that'll decide the 2025, 2026 and 2027 factions
If Parabellum is even around by then, to be honest.
Are Parabellum looking like they may be in trouble? I haven't even following them a lot, the occasional look at their Conquest models. Still on the fence about the game.
Theres no indications that they are in trouble, unless you consider that they discontinued some of their recent discount offers and have hiked prices on newer products to be an indicator of distress (theres good argument to be made for the opposite, that the hikes are reflective of their success and their ability to have built a solid core community that no longer requires loss-leaders as incentive for customers to buy in).
chaos0xomega wrote: There was talk of there being another 1-2 undead factions amongst the ~18 total planned, so not out of the question - but I think its unlikely that this is pointing at a faction. We have City States coming in 2023 and Weaver Courts in 2024, I doubt very much that they release any other factions before those two are out, and it wouldn't make sense for them to start spinning up for a faction to be released in 2025 while we still know next to nothing about the two factions coming in 23/24.
I imagine 2024 will have another living world poll that'll decide the 2025, 2026 and 2027 factions
If Parabellum is even around by then, to be honest.
Are Parabellum looking like they may be in trouble? I haven't even following them a lot, the occasional look at their Conquest models. Still on the fence about the game.
They seem to be in the opposite of trouble, given they have to move production of a few of existing resin models to plastic to keep up with the demand.
chaos0xomega wrote: There was talk of there being another 1-2 undead factions amongst the ~18 total planned, so not out of the question - but I think its unlikely that this is pointing at a faction. We have City States coming in 2023 and Weaver Courts in 2024, I doubt very much that they release any other factions before those two are out, and it wouldn't make sense for them to start spinning up for a faction to be released in 2025 while we still know next to nothing about the two factions coming in 23/24.
I imagine 2024 will have another living world poll that'll decide the 2025, 2026 and 2027 factions
If Parabellum is even around by then, to be honest.
Are Parabellum looking like they may be in trouble? I haven't even following them a lot, the occasional look at their Conquest models. Still on the fence about the game.
They seem to be in the opposite of trouble, given they have to move production of a few of existing resin models to plastic to keep up with the demand.
But a lot can change in 5 years
So they are doing well, yes a lot can happen in 5 years. However the way you worded it sounds like you either think the company is going down the drain, or you want the company to go down the drain.
Still, glad they are doing well. Makes me a bit more positive about potentially getting into the system.
chaos0xomega wrote: There was talk of there being another 1-2 undead factions amongst the ~18 total planned, so not out of the question - but I think its unlikely that this is pointing at a faction. We have City States coming in 2023 and Weaver Courts in 2024, I doubt very much that they release any other factions before those two are out, and it wouldn't make sense for them to start spinning up for a faction to be released in 2025 while we still know next to nothing about the two factions coming in 23/24.
I imagine 2024 will have another living world poll that'll decide the 2025, 2026 and 2027 factions
If Parabellum is even around by then, to be honest.
Are Parabellum looking like they may be in trouble? I haven't even following them a lot, the occasional look at their Conquest models. Still on the fence about the game.
They seem to be in the opposite of trouble, given they have to move production of a few of existing resin models to plastic to keep up with the demand.
But a lot can change in 5 years
So they are doing well, yes a lot can happen in 5 years. However the way you worded it sounds like you either think the company is going down the drain, or you want the company to go down the drain.
Still, glad they are doing well. Makes me a bit more positive about potentially getting into the system.
Eh, it was more intended as a generic comment at very-long-term plans, but I can see how it could be seen like that. I, personally, also hope they're going to be around for a while, given how I'm about to start a really bloody long-term project going with the Old Dominion and I wanna have a system to use them in when I'm finally done
vultute wrote: I thought the Undead Faction would be only Old dominion or just add Vampire counts.
Is Parabellum planning to implement a undead enemies of the Northern gods at Ragnarok?
That character/myth is pretty explicitly one of the Old Dominion leftovers from their Northern Invasion (aka Ragnarök) who has become twisted and Undead since the Fall and totally not Surtur Hazlia merged with Death (it's probably one of the Anointed or a little chunk of Hazlia that's gone feral). There's a lot of weird stuff in the North owing to all the shenanigans their 'gods' were getting up to, the Ice Jotnar and whatever the Dominion dropped on them. I haven't heard tell of them getting a specific undead faction for the region though. The North seems to have plenty of other stuff lurking there. The cannibalistic/ghoul/zombie faction mentioned hasn't had a lot of lore behind it yet but I don't think it'll be focused around the Nords.
chaos0xomega wrote: There was talk of there being another 1-2 undead factions amongst the ~18 total planned, so not out of the question - but I think its unlikely that this is pointing at a faction. We have City States coming in 2023 and Weaver Courts in 2024, I doubt very much that they release any other factions before those two are out, and it wouldn't make sense for them to start spinning up for a faction to be released in 2025 while we still know next to nothing about the two factions coming in 23/24.
I imagine 2024 will have another living world poll that'll decide the 2025, 2026 and 2027 factions
If Parabellum is even around by then, to be honest.
Are Parabellum looking like they may be in trouble? I haven't even following them a lot, the occasional look at their Conquest models. Still on the fence about the game.
They seem to be in the opposite of trouble, given they have to move production of a few of existing resin models to plastic to keep up with the demand.
But a lot can change in 5 years
I enjoyed the time I spent with Conquest and hope Parabellum continue to do well, but I'll be surprised if The Old World doesn't kill it off. It's a great game, but peoples brand loyalty to GW trumps pretty much anything else.
chaos0xomega wrote: There was talk of there being another 1-2 undead factions amongst the ~18 total planned, so not out of the question - but I think its unlikely that this is pointing at a faction. We have City States coming in 2023 and Weaver Courts in 2024, I doubt very much that they release any other factions before those two are out, and it wouldn't make sense for them to start spinning up for a faction to be released in 2025 while we still know next to nothing about the two factions coming in 23/24.
I imagine 2024 will have another living world poll that'll decide the 2025, 2026 and 2027 factions
If Parabellum is even around by then, to be honest.
Are Parabellum looking like they may be in trouble? I haven't even following them a lot, the occasional look at their Conquest models. Still on the fence about the game.
They seem to be in the opposite of trouble, given they have to move production of a few of existing resin models to plastic to keep up with the demand.
But a lot can change in 5 years
I enjoyed the time I spent with Conquest and hope Parabellum continue to do well, but I'll be surprised if The Old World doesn't kill it off. It's a great game, but peoples brand loyalty to GW trumps pretty much anything else.
I still doubt OW will kill off most rank-and-file fantasy games, tbh. If they die, it's because of their own poor decisions, and Conquest seems to be doing pretty good thus far.
chaos0xomega wrote: There was talk of there being another 1-2 undead factions amongst the ~18 total planned, so not out of the question - but I think its unlikely that this is pointing at a faction. We have City States coming in 2023 and Weaver Courts in 2024, I doubt very much that they release any other factions before those two are out, and it wouldn't make sense for them to start spinning up for a faction to be released in 2025 while we still know next to nothing about the two factions coming in 23/24.
I imagine 2024 will have another living world poll that'll decide the 2025, 2026 and 2027 factions
If Parabellum is even around by then, to be honest.
Are Parabellum looking like they may be in trouble? I haven't even following them a lot, the occasional look at their Conquest models. Still on the fence about the game.
They seem to be in the opposite of trouble, given they have to move production of a few of existing resin models to plastic to keep up with the demand.
But a lot can change in 5 years
I cant comment on PB as a company, but I do wonder if Conquest isnt gaining the popularity they need or is in fact declining. FWIW (not very much Ill admit) many of the major LGS's in my area stocked Conquest at release, but now only one store regularly stocks it with new releases. In fact, as far as I can tell, that one store supplies most of the country, the only alternative being direct from PB.
In the midlands, there are not as many people playing it, and it seems to have died off a little. Most people are doing the GW shuffle, which is a shame as I love the old Dominion and want to get involved
chaos0xomega wrote: Theres no indications that they are in trouble, unless you consider that they discontinued some of their recent discount offers and have hiked prices on newer products to be an indicator of distress (theres good argument to be made for the opposite, that the hikes are reflective of their success and their ability to have built a solid core community that no longer requires loss-leaders as incentive for customers to buy in).
Hikes is a strong word, when we are talking of +1 euro/dollar on most increases. Shipping costs and things getting pricier is more to blame.
I have yet to find a shop that regularly stocks Conquest in SoCal, either online or in person.
I don't know if it's just distribution that's the holdup or what, but BobtheInquisitor is right- haven't seen any Old Dominion in the wild here at all. Had to get mine from MM when they first appeared, and those are now subsequently out of stock.
Really annoyed I didn't grab any Kataphractoi when I had the chance.
I don't get what's the problem?
To me it seems great because Asmodee is a French distributor of board games. Which means I might actually see Conquest in stores at some point.
They're not the only distributor either, so if asmodee screws up there's other options. I don't get what the doom and gloom is about.
Asmodee has constant supply issues that create lots of problems for games like this. Typical board games and tabletop products are not an issue, but games like Legion, X-Wing, Armada, and A Song of Ice and Fire constantly have their product releases delayed by months, products show up in different parts of the world at different times (very frustrating when Asmodee makes an announcement that the release of a product you pre-ordered is delayed 3 months, and 2 days later people in Poland and Germany are posting pictures of that product on sale while its impossible to get anywhere else), and popular products often end up being out of stock for extended periods until they can be reprinted and restocked which makes it hard for people who are trying to collect stuff or build an army over time.
The non-exclusivity is the saving grace here so hopefully its less of an issue. TBH I was being somewhat sarcastic with my post as I doubt Asmodee distro would actually kill the game, but I cringe every time I hear that a publisher has signed a distribution deal with them. I guess enough other people feel the same about them and their distribution practices that it struck a chord with them.
Huh, my flgs uses Asmodee (among others) and the issues aren't nearly that bad. Particularly for these days when everyone is having issues. At any rate I see Asmodee sticking it in addition to previous methods as a good thing.
Sasorijap wrote: Asmodee recently became their (non-exclusive) distributor so they definitely are doing very okay.
If people abandon Conquest for Old Hammer then minigamers deserve all the gakky treatment they get from GW all these years.
Conquest has an amazing ruleset. Interesting lore and they involve the community with the direction of the game overall.
Now thats a bit strong isn't it? If people abandon Conquest for Old Hammer then Conquest needs to compete. People aren't wrong for play games they want to play.
GW Market dominance can be immensely limiting and feel like a lot of non GW games lack for opponents, but there are notable exceptions. At my local clubs in my city you can pretty much always find Kings of War and newer games like turnip 28 being played.
In my area its mostly the models and mostly system incompatible scale which turn people off.
That and a lot of warhammer players seem to have abused wife syndrome. They bitch about how terrible GW and the rule set is, then they buy the next expensive model and edition. Then they wonder why GW doesn't change.
Eh, GW does change, going in directions both better and worse. It has a tremendous impact. The end of Kirby days and rise of Roundtree nuGW did not drum up popularity with a few token changes; they completely overhauled how the company operated and people noticed.
What PB needs to do is stick with their strengths and work on their weaknesses, and they'll stick around. If they refuse to address those weaknesses and let baggage build up, on the other hand... well PP ain't doing so well these days.
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Wha-Mu-077 wrote: It's hard to compete when the very fact that OldHammer is more popular is a deciding factor for a very large amount of people
I do think the nature of AA vs IgoUgo means that to a certain extent the games appeal to different people.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Frankly I liked the old one better, he didn't have quite the potato-face.
Agreed, this is one of their weaker ones, especially for the resculpts. The angle of the lead foot feels off and that face is just weird compared to what they can usually do, though it might just be the paintjob (which would be a very rare miss from PB in that department). Thankfully the resin one looks like it's coming back into stock (and is the same price as the new one).
NinthMusketeer wrote: Eh, GW does change, going in directions both better and worse. It has a tremendous impact. The end of Kirby days and rise of Roundtree nuGW did not drum up popularity with a few token changes; they completely overhauled how the company operated and people noticed.
What PB needs to do is stick with their strengths and work on their weaknesses, and they'll stick around. If they refuse to address those weaknesses and let baggage build up, on the other hand... well PP ain't doing so well these days.
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Wha-Mu-077 wrote: It's hard to compete when the very fact that OldHammer is more popular is a deciding factor for a very large amount of people
I do think the nature of AA vs IgoUgo means that to a certain extent the games appeal to different people.
This nothing to do with it if GW went AA people would prais how indicative they are and goble it up. GW only issue is price is getting rediculas.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Frankly I liked the old one better, he didn't have quite the potato-face.
Agreed, this is one of their weaker ones, especially for the resculpts. The angle of the lead foot feels off and that face is just weird compared to what they can usually do, though it might just be the paintjob (which would be a very rare miss from PB in that department). Thankfully the resin one looks like it's coming back into stock (and is the same price as the new one).
I prefer this one by a mile, the pose is much more dynamic.
The face isn't great and the waist seem to be a little bit too turned, but I like his armour and coat, and that is a nice pose. I'd rather he was in mid-unsheathing instead of just holding the sword in front of him though.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Frankly I liked the old one better, he didn't have quite the potato-face.
Agreed, this is one of their weaker ones, especially for the resculpts. The angle of the lead foot feels off and that face is just weird compared to what they can usually do, though it might just be the paintjob (which would be a very rare miss from PB in that department). Thankfully the resin one looks like it's coming back into stock (and is the same price as the new one).
I prefer this one by a mile, the pose is much more dynamic.
I liked the furry cloak and the older face of the resin more more, details-wise though.
nels1031 wrote: Is it just me or are the Nobles feet distractingly big?
Poor sculpt all around, imo. PB struggles with humanoid stuff but their dinosaurs are the best out there.
It's both due to a perspective trick (his feet are the closest to the viewer at the angle where the promo pic was taken, they look fine otherwise), and the fact that full-plate boots were generally noticeably elongated outside the lenght of the actual foot due to their design.
I'm actually fine with the pose, I just wish he had the head and cloak of the old model.
Okay, and maybe if he was drawing his sword.
So it fits on the regiment tray, I would imagine.
That is a really nice model.
I would get Old Dominion, but I'm waiting for the City States to come out.
I don't want to buy into an army, and then go "oh no, I like these guys more"
I really like them branching into multi-base options for infantry regiments and the design is nice. I only dislike how that sarcophagus looks WAY too big for one dude, even of supernatural strength, to be dragging. Still though, cool design and I think it will look great as part of a regiment.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: So it fits on the regiment stray, I would imagine.
That is a really nice model.
I would get Old Dominion, but I'm waiting for the City States to come out.
I don't want to buy into an army, and then go "oh no, I like these guys more"
Ah, that makes a lot of sense. I admit, I was totally baffled about it too.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: So it fits on the regiment tray, I would imagine.
That is a really nice model.
I would get Old Dominion, but I'm waiting for the City States to come out.
I don't want to buy into an army, and then go "oh no, I like these guys more"
Make a First Blood Army for the Old Dominion which is around 25 models.
The new First Blood V 2.0 Starter is up on their e-shop.
The diorama aspect is really neat, and the Wardens really have a nice "classic dwarf" look compared to the rest of the Dweghom range. If the Warriors/Ballistae/Thanes looked more like that, I'd consider Dweghom!
Totally agreed, I am really liking the multi-base aspect taking advantage of how the trays work. Wardens seem to have suffered a bit for it with some stiff posing but like the Warriors I imagine a little bit of shaving & adjusting will do a lot for them. For both I like the monk-ish aesthetic to their garb as it sells the distinct subculture while still remaining distinctly Dweghom.
Rihgu wrote: The diorama aspect is really neat, and the Wardens really have a nice "classic dwarf" look compared to the rest of the Dweghom range. If the Warriors/Ballistae/Thanes looked more like that, I'd consider Dweghom!
Likewise, these are probably my favourite looking Dweghom unit purely because they don't have that slightly cartoonish approach to their armour and the really stilted poses of some of their early plastics.
I'm really liking the OD command options. They look great.
Pity you have to buy it separately though.
Spending an additional ~26 euros for each unit you have seems a wee bit much.
Dam what a nice model, love how he is posed holding it forward, considering what it does. Looks sinister but regal at the same time, especially with that ace paintjob. Also really like that his helmet crest is not massive.
Interesting that the Noble Lord seems to have been the only one to get a significant resculpt in the transition to plastic, the Raegh and the Executor look like basically the same character in a different pose.
A much, much better pose in case of the Raegh, for one.
Do any of them happen to work with 32mm scale minis reasonably well? (I dunno, maybe some of the non-human type units?)
I like some of the Spires designs - I've been into biomorphic fantasy clones since Rackham's Dirz hit the scene - but worry that none of the Conquest minis will fit with my 28mm to 32mm collection.
I do appreciate that a larger scale like 38mm would make painting Conquest minis less of a pain, I just prefer to hodgepodge all my miniature lines together on the tabletop.
I'm not quite sure I like the paint scheme, but the models themselves could have promise. I think they would look a lot better with a darker and grittier scheme, maybe something that gives them a more organic look.
I'm not quite sure I like the paint scheme, but the models themselves could have promise.
I think they would look a lot better with a darker and grittier scheme, maybe something that gives them a more organic look.
Yeah the paint scheme is very one-dimensional with no variation in the white carapace, it is certainly throwing me off a bit. The posing does seem pretty stale though, like they aren't quite standing but aren't quite bracing and aren't quite doing... anything. I think using the same arms was a mistake here, the two units needed more than just different hands & heads and the resulting arm pose doesn't work for either of them.
I'm not quite sure I like the paint scheme, but the models themselves could have promise.
I think they would look a lot better with a darker and grittier scheme, maybe something that gives them a more organic look.
Yeah the paint scheme is very one-dimensional with no variation in the white carapace, it is certainly throwing me off a bit. The posing does seem pretty stale though, like they aren't quite standing but aren't quite bracing and aren't quite doing... anything. I think using the same arms was a mistake here, the two units needed more than just different hands & heads and the resulting arm pose doesn't work for either of them.
Yeah, Spires just can't seem to get a good infantry kit, can they?
Cool stuff. Still real thick on those shields, but I like the Valkyrie posing; it reads with a sort of 'detachment' to me like they are beyond mortal concerns.
Blooded has the most filled out warband where Jarls and Konungyrs are kind of stuck with raiders and huskarls.
At least locally, that has made Jarls and Konungyrs basically non-existent as they have the most boring list building imaginable, where Blooded as your "core" has options (and the Supremacy Ability is 10x juicier than anything the others offer)
Rihgu wrote: Blooded has the most filled out warband where Jarls and Konungyrs are kind of stuck with raiders and huskarls.
At least locally, that has made Jarls and Konungyrs basically non-existent as they have the most boring list building imaginable, where Blooded as your "core" has options (and the Supremacy Ability is 10x juicier than anything the others offer)
I am fully aware, It's just interesting they didn't choose a more, how to say, traditional basic leader, like the Noble Lord or the Hold Raegh to be the first to be plastic-ized.
Also I mean, Jarls and Konungyrs are not entirely out of the picture, the 3rd place in Gencon 2022 was a Norse build with both.
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: Interesting to choose the Blooded as the first hero to be transferred into plastic, I was expecting someone more, standard? Like the Captain or Jarl.
Jarl is already in plastic they just didn't change the sculpt.
Crimson Tower look even more exceptional painted up. Not 100% sold on the Kanephors or Karyatids but that might just be because they're not a direct translation of the amazing concept art into miniature format. Edit: Correction Turns out that artwork isn't in fact those units anyway (clarified by the devs) so there's more to come.
I like that guy in the cloak resting on his shield. Nice looking hero.
Would make a great Ranger for Shadow Deep too.
Guess it's time to start getting funky for the new First Blood rules.
The more I look at my Spire drones, the more I feel the need to butcher them and rebuild them "better."
What that might entail, I'm not sure yet. Seen some cool bodyguard types made with the multi- armed archer bodies.
Those are kanephors? Aren't they supposed to be the flaming angel guys? Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying they look bad, I was just expecting the angel.
I hope the carytids look like the art of that creepy long neck woman. It would be kind of gakky of PB to go "Hey, look at our cool concept art. Oh, you wanted models of them? Too bad"
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Those are kanephors? Aren't they supposed to be the flaming angel guys?
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying they look bad, I was just expecting the angel.
I hope the carytids look like the art of that creepy long neck woman. It would be kind of gakky of PB to go "Hey, look at our cool concept art. Oh, you wanted models of them? Too bad"
They actually showed off Caryatids already, it's just that for some reason they didn't get posted here.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Those are kanephors? Aren't they supposed to be the flaming angel guys?
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying they look bad, I was just expecting the angel.
I hope the carytids look like the art of that creepy long neck woman. It would be kind of gakky of PB to go "Hey, look at our cool concept art. Oh, you wanted models of them? Too bad"
They actually showed off Caryatids already, it's just that for some reason they didn't get posted here.
And no, they don't have long necks
Again, not a bad model, but then what were those things we saw when Old Dominion was announced?
I'm really confused, because I really thought those were going to be kanephors and caryatids.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Those are kanephors? Aren't they supposed to be the flaming angel guys?
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying they look bad, I was just expecting the angel.
I hope the carytids look like the art of that creepy long neck woman. It would be kind of gakky of PB to go "Hey, look at our cool concept art. Oh, you wanted models of them? Too bad"
They actually showed off Caryatids already, it's just that for some reason they didn't get posted here.
And no, they don't have long necks
Again, not a bad model, but then what were those things we saw when Old Dominion was announced?
I'm really confused, because I really thought those were going to be kanephors and caryatids.
Sorry to rain on your pararde, but those are the things we all saw announced. Animated stone statues with black goop coming out of them. This is just how they translated that, er, concept, to miniature form. The fiery bronze roman statue is just a different unit that we're not going to get yet it seems like - especially given how both Cepenhors and Caryatids are names that refer to statues of women.
Profane Sepulcher seems to belong to The Final Creed, and Illustrations of burning angel were introduced as The Fallen Pantheon.
So I expect that the angel will be Keeper of the Dead or Key Warden, and long neck female statue will be Erinyes.
It's hard to think Para Bellum are going to change a long-published design, but it's also hard to think they'll apply it to the Command Model.
In any case, we have to respect their design changes for reasons of mass production and public appeal.
Agreed that the giant looks nice (admittedly I was biased in that I'm a fan of the previous one as well). What's the point of the Founder's Exclusive? To offer exclusive sculpts or the upcoming regular sculpts but in resin? Have they don't this before?
warboss wrote: Agreed that the giant looks nice (admittedly I was biased in that I'm a fan of the previous one as well). What's the point of the Founder's Exclusive? To offer exclusive sculpts or the upcoming regular sculpts but in resin? Have they don't this before?
They've done one for every faction so far. They're effectively mini dioramas that are ostensibly limited edition. Collector's pieces that are usually alternative sculpts. I think a lot of them are later released but without the scenic bases.
warboss wrote: Agreed that the giant looks nice (admittedly I was biased in that I'm a fan of the previous one as well). What's the point of the Founder's Exclusive? To offer exclusive sculpts or the upcoming regular sculpts but in resin? Have they don't this before?
They've done one for every faction so far. They're effectively mini dioramas that are ostensibly limited edition. Collector's pieces that are usually alternative sculpts. I think a lot of them are later released but without the scenic bases.
So the first 100k, Nord, Dwegholm ones included a diorama base, a character, and three retinue. The retinue were later released separately but the character and diorama portion remained exclusive. And the diorama part really is the biggest aspect, especially for the Dweghom one.
I like the way the Dweghom and 100K dice sets look. I'll also be getting the OD Founders Exclusive for sure, even if I have no idea what it looks like.
warboss wrote: Agreed that the giant looks nice (admittedly I was biased in that I'm a fan of the previous one as well). What's the point of the Founder's Exclusive? To offer exclusive sculpts or the upcoming regular sculpts but in resin? Have they don't this before?
They do Founders Exclusives for every faction each year. They are limited edition sculpts that usually release around Christmas/the Holidays, typically they come in different flavors, either alt sculpts of existing skits, mini-diaromas of a "scene" from within the setting, or represent a unit that has specific upgrades associated with it (Brood of Omgorah for Wadruhn for example, and Legacies of the Ark for Spire). Usually they only make a couple hundred copies of each one (which speaks to the size of the game community, I think).
Note however, in this case the Sea Giant is not a Founders Exclusive, its an Artisan Series mini, which is different. These are basically alt sculpts designed by Para-Bellum but sculpted by guest sculptors and released in resin. They are "artisan" minis because the goal is for Conquest to eventually be all-plastic, they are not limited in the sense that they only mint a fixed number of them, but they are limited in the sense that they aren't expected to be permanently available as part of the model range.
1 - no ending the game early by scoring max points or tabling your opponent. The one I'm least positive on, but I think I'm still positive on it.
2 - no whacky "only lights score" or "you need 2 heavies to score" missions
3 - all scenarios allowing the destruction of enemy objectives is... interesting?
Terrain rules! Finally, glad to have em. Quite sensible and easily understood too.
Tabling is still a thing and without VP thresholds there's 10 rounds to do it... My preference would be for no auto-win on either side but having both is better than just one. How many games have people played where one side is still alive round 10?
Lol @ "objective zones cannot be captured the first three rounds" followed a paragraph later by "objective zones cannot be captured the first or second battle rounds"
1 - no ending the game early by scoring max points or tabling your opponent. The one I'm least positive on, but I think I'm still positive on it.
2 - no whacky "only lights score" or "you need 2 heavies to score" missions
3 - all scenarios allowing the destruction of enemy objectives is... interesting?
I think mix and matching these can be a solid choice.
Looks like a fun way for them to try and flog those bloody Abomination kits. Especially as they used to give them away like sweets at expos and events.
It is one of my all time favorites for awful miniatures companies have put out. Just, really bad. Looks worse in person, and isn't even very good in-game either.
NinthMusketeer wrote: It is one of my all time favorites for awful miniatures companies have put out. Just, really bad. Looks worse in person, and isn't even very good in-game either.
It is funny because everything you've just said is wrong :V.
Personally I've always rather liked it in general, though it's wonky as all hell to build and pose in a way that looks decent. It it's stance looks awkward and ungainly then that sort of suits it. It does suffer from being part of that initial launch set wave; the difference between their plastics then and now is very noticible.
NinthMusketeer wrote: It is one of my all time favorites for awful miniatures companies have put out. Just, really bad. Looks worse in person, and isn't even very good in-game either.
To be fair, it was an early model. Some of their earlier stuff does indeed look jank.
NinthMusketeer wrote: It is one of my all time favorites for awful miniatures companies have put out. Just, really bad. Looks worse in person, and isn't even very good in-game either.
It is funny because everything you've just said is wrong :V.
No, no, Ninth is absolutely right here. It's impossible to assemble well due to all the ball joints AND in person you'll practically never see one painted so it'll just be this splay-legged shiny grey thing.
It's a Heavy unit that bullies Light units, and is therefore basically irrelevant in the old mission pack due to not arriving in time to do anything meaningful and irrelevant in the new mission pack due to Lights being irrelevant.
NinthMusketeer wrote: It is one of my all time favorites for awful miniatures companies have put out. Just, really bad. Looks worse in person, and isn't even very good in-game either.
To be fair, it was an early model. Some of their earlier stuff does indeed look jank.
Most definitely. New releases have (IMO of course) a shocking degree of improvement.
NinthMusketeer wrote: It is one of my all time favorites for awful miniatures companies have put out. Just, really bad. Looks worse in person, and isn't even very good in-game either.
It is funny because everything you've just said is wrong :V.
NinthMusketeer wrote: It is one of my all time favorites for awful miniatures companies have put out. Just, really bad. Looks worse in person, and isn't even very good in-game either.
It is funny because everything you've just said is wrong :V.
you'll practically never see one painted
That's a [citation needed] if I ever saw one.
TBF, we also need a citation for why I don't think it's awful. Last I checked pretty sure I do
NinthMusketeer wrote: It is one of my all time favorites for awful miniatures companies have put out. Just, really bad. Looks worse in person, and isn't even very good in-game either.
It is funny because everything you've just said is wrong :V.
you'll practically never see one painted
That's a [citation needed] if I ever saw one.
TBF, we also need a citation for why I don't think it's awful. Last I checked pretty sure I do
I didn't say you were not thinking it is awful, I said you were wrong in treating your opinion as a fact :V
The developers said that when they ask about the community's favorite and least favorite models, the Abomination ends up high in both lists.
As a Spires player this monstrosity is what drew me to the game. It is still one of their first models though so it is hard to build compared to the flawless Apex Predator for example.
Rihgu wrote: As interesting as this conversation has turned, PB is putting the resin incarnates on fire sale. 60$ per kit compared to 100$ before.
Only while supplies last and this is leading up to the release of the plastic incarnate sentinels, so your mileage may vary.
I mean, it's pretty obvious they want to remove the resin stock. I am personally happy they are removing resin units or, at least, making them only temporary.
NinthMusketeer wrote: It is one of my all time favorites for awful miniatures companies have put out. Just, really bad. Looks worse in person, and isn't even very good in-game either.
It is funny because everything you've just said is wrong :V.
you'll practically never see one painted
That's a [citation needed] if I ever saw one.
TBF, we also need a citation for why I don't think it's awful. Last I checked pretty sure I do
I didn't say you were not thinking it is awful, I said you were wrong in treating your opinion as a fact :V
I think we can all see from the quotes here that isn't what was stated by either side.
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Rihgu wrote: As interesting as this conversation has turned, PB is putting the resin incarnates on fire sale. 60$ per kit compared to 100$ before.
Only while supplies last and this is leading up to the release of the plastic incarnate sentinels, so your mileage may vary.
Cool models, but not nearly $100 cool. $60 though... PB resin IS really nice...
Part of the issue with fleshing out current armies is that when they release new armies, they have to have more of them fleshed out to catch up to the already released armies.
Theres also strong arguments to be made about going wide instead of going tall in terms of capturing a larger audience and greater market share before diving deeper into whats already there.
Para-bellums mistake may have been releasing rules for unreleased models, as it now creates an expectation on the part of the community that those units are something that must be released, whereas nobody would utter a peep against expanding to new factions if they thought that the existing factions were already reasonably complete.
NinthMusketeer wrote: the original four have half their roster without minis, at best.
A) Hundred Kingdoms.
-Imperial remnants: all the entries are available. 6/6
-Nobility: all the entries are available, bar court squires. 10/11 (8/9 unique entries).
-Faith, their unique entry is missing, the militias are available.
-Military orders, they have the priory commander, but only 1/5 units.
That adds up to 15/20 or 75%, of the listed units already for sale, all the heroes are in, but the infantry variant of the priory commander is missing. So: 2 (lord on horse and foot) +1 +1 +1 = 5 out of 6. 20 out of 26 entries, or 76,9% of the army list is on sale.
B) Spires.
-Biomancer: 4/6 entries.
-Pheromancer: 5/6 entries, 3/4 are unique.
-High clone executor: 3/4 unique entries.
-Assassin.
-Lineage highborn: 2/4 unique entries.
That adds up to 12 out of 18 unit entries (66%), all heroes are available (that makes 73.9%)
C) Dweghom:
-Ardent, 4/6.
-Raegh, 3/5 unique entries.
-Sorcerer. 3/4.
-Steelshaper, misssing the unique entry.
That's 10 out of 16 (or 62,5%, 70% with heroes).
D) Nords.
-Blooded, 6/10.
-Jarl 2/5.
-King: the two giants, missing the steelchosen. There's other units that appear in other heroes and are available. 2/3.
-Shaman, missing units that are missing on the jarl.
-Volva: full strength by this months, 1/1.
-White waste shaman is missing.
So, they've got 6+2+2+1 =11 units and 5 heroes out of 6 heroes and 10+5+3 = 18 units... or 11/18 = 61,11% of the units or (11+5)/18+6 = 66'66% of the full roster, counting heroes.
So, we have 75/76,9 ; 66/73.9 ; 62,5/70 and 61,11/66,66
I honestly fail to the validity of the 'only half the roster, at best' part
Para-bellums mistake may have been releasing rules for unreleased models, as it now creates an expectation on the part of the community that those units are something that must be released
I honestly think that's a good decision, rather than a mistake. These units *will* be released, the players know there's stuff to come. They can even try if they like those units while they are waiting.
I agree that releasing rules for the unreleased models was a mistake. The fact that they make up new units on a whim (hellbringer sorcerer), or decide to change rules based on how the model was actually executed (sea jotnar), etc. makes it a bit awkward for the purpose of "here's a list of what's going to be released".
That and they admit unreleased models are less tested and likely to get changes before/upon release, and don't allow unreleased models at their events... yea, as an embedded player I wish they just didn't release rules for the unreleased models.
They are not. When testing, vanguards don't know what units will or will not be released during the 1st 2 phases of testing. They are used with the same frecuency during testing.
They are not. When testing, vanguards don't know what units will or will not be released during the 1st 2 phases of testing. They are used with the same frecuency during testing.
That is strangely at odds with the words directly from the vanguards who do playtesting who completely admit that they test the unreleased units less than the released/soon-to-be released units and tell the players that rules will always be looked at more closely when models are closer to release. There are playtesting vanguards who say with some surety that certain units (ex: Tontorr, Thunder Riders) will be nerfed before they are released because they are currently too powerful for their points.
They are not. When testing, vanguards don't know what units will or will not be released during the 1st 2 phases of testing. They are used with the same frecuency during testing.
That is strangely at odds with the words directly from the vanguards who do playtesting
I am a vanguard that does playtesting.
Para Bellum doesn't tell us what to and what not to playtest.
There is a miscommunication happening here. I'm not saying that they do.
I am saying that by the admission of the seeming majority of vanguards who playtest, they playtest unreleased models LESS THAN released models, because whenever this question comes up in the official discord, multiple vanguards to chime in and say this.
And the official PB line seems to be that units will be looked at closer (assuming the best for PB+playtest team here, this likely means "playtested more" rather than literally just looking at them) when they are near release, which that alone implies that they are playtested less than units that are released.
I apologize if I cannot make what I am saying make sense to you, and to prevent clogging up the N&R thread with drama, this will be my last post on the subject.
Rihgu wrote: they playtest unreleased models LESS THAN released models
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Playtesting happens before *anything* releases. What happens is that, after release, things get fine tuned (after all, things escape testing). Unreleased things don't get used in tourneys, for the most part, so they don't get post playtesting fine-tuning.
I'd imagine released units are tested more than unreleased ones because you can't test units in isolation, you've got to put them in armies made up of already released models,
so every test battle you have you're playing far more released models than unreleased ones (even if it's the unreleased ones you're more interested in),
Well, welcome to 2022. Not that i am happy about that one hike.
Automatically Appended Next Post: For the record, the ice jotnar and the divinity have the same price tag, as these are meant to be 'premium' sculpts for rare units, FWIW.
Yeah. I was NOT happy with the price tag on my Hellbringer, the Apex & Seanar have solid sculpts and good detail so there's an element of 'get what you pay for' there. But the Drake is riddled with the sorts of rough edges common to their early sculpts.
Yea, same here. The First Blood rewrite seemed very, very clean compared to TLAOK so it does give me an extreme amount of hope for TLAOK 2.0... when their small dev team gets the bandwidth to actually do that...
FB2 is an improvement but it is still below the standard IMO. They can and should do better, especially with a community quite happy to do the work for free.
Fairly solid, IMHO. Funny that the linebreaker FAQ is exactly at odds with what Rhys has been saying on discord for the past few months.
Biotic Renewal nerfed to be single target instead of AoE.
Everything else seems to be wording cleanup/explanation, to me.
Reinforcement line rules just got messier by adding yet another feature to a completely unexplained rule. The fact that nowhere does it explain how pushback works but it keeps referring to it is an odd thing I will continue to pester the devs about but it really seems like it will never be fixed.
Dragonslayers, Vanguard Clone Infiltrators, and Biomancers nerfed. Sea Jotnars got an interesting change to be able to volley for free, while engaged, in addition to their 2 regular actions, which does bring some parity to the Ice Jotnar.
Hm. Underwhelming to me, what I see in the exclusives is the diorama aspect and that floors more like a nice scenic base. Compared to the likes of Eruption and at the price tag it will come with... meh.
I'm almost certain this is meant to be the Regalia of the Dominion (Tactical Retinue). It comes with a special Strategos - the only character that has Regalia/Tactical as "Available" instead of "Restricted", and the end of the product description even calls it out by name.
Buried in the same tomb, Alexius and his Companions arose bedecked in the full Regalia of the Dominion, ready to enforce their will on a world gone mad.
That said, it could easily be interpreted as a mix of Combat/Regalia/Arcane, so overall a very versatile set of models for the faction.
All joking aside, I do like the sculpt other than the thin limbs.
