Making comparisons between products and their prices and informing other consumers about your results isn't "hate". It should be considered normal, healthy consumer behaviour.
If somebody feels attacked by such comparisons, maybe they should reevaluate their objectivity when it comes to buying certain products - the feeling of unease may be a sign of cognitive dissonance when faced with evidence that one's choices are not too reasonable.
And one of the strategies for coping with cognitive dissonance is avoidance (like the aforementioned group of players not wanting to see comparisons).
warboss wrote: Your local scene was that sensitive to comparative advertising? I don't think that's universally applicable and there were likey a myriad of other factors that contributed to it.
It wasn't comparative advertising, and you're right it's likely not universally applicable.
warboss wrote: I fully admit I didn't see this expansive and acerbic Mantic scorched earth advertising campaign that ravaged Nottingham though. Could you post a link to the examples you think are most indicative of the truly local-scene killing advertising you mentioned?
And one of the strategies for coping with cognitive dissonance is avoidance (like the aforementioned group of players not wanting to see comparisons).
The specific tipping point was The Old World announcement, when Mantic made the post that was like "our square bases never left!" and the ensuing discourse around that in the online community. It made a lot of local people realize and/or start to believe that Mantic wasn't doing "Mantic's thing" and the wider player base wasn't interested in "Mantic's thing". Mantic was doing GW's thing and the player base was interested in "fighting the man (GW)".
Anyways, Chaos0xOmega put what I want to say way better than I'm capable of doing, so I'll leave it at that. If you really want to carry on the conversation, you can bring it to my DMs so as to not drive this topic further off topic.
Rihgu wrote: The specific tipping point was The Old World announcement, when Mantic made the post that was like "our square bases never left!" and the ensuing discourse around that in the online community. It made a lot of local people realize and/or start to believe that Mantic wasn't doing "Mantic's thing" and the wider player base wasn't interested in "Mantic's thing". Mantic was doing GW's thing and the player base was interested in "fighting the man (GW)".
Beauty/quality is obviously in the eye of the beholder but IMO alot of the popularity of the initial KoW campaign/release was to get an affordable alternative to GW figures at the same relative quality. Admittedly this next part is anecdotal similar to your own experience but the KoW as a game exploded locally in my area specifically because GW killed WHFB and players wanted an established game to play with their existing collections as well as a product line to expand them with (both of which Mantic's offerings fulfilled). So... when TOW was announced and your local scene died, you thought that the reason was the tone of the Mantic's advertising response and not that the minis in general didn't live up to the hype and that the main rules/IP reason people defected in the first place would soonTM become moot?
Neither of these are really true with Conquest though as they've always done their own thing. I do actually agree with you that direct comparative advertising isn't the way to go with their products but for a different reason than you state... the scale difference. It's huge (pun intended) when seen in person and that's already assuming people have no issue with GW's ever increasing fantasy (sliding) scale itself. In my case, I was aware of the scale difference in theory but seeing it in practice at the FLGS during biennial flea market event really hammered it home for me that the figs wouldn't fit anything in my existing collection making it a permanent no-go for me personally. I suspect even for people with only small GW collections gathering dust in dingy basements and the back of a closet that the scale difference might scare them off as a result of the advertisement. I know harping on the scale here in thread is likely to boil the blood of some readers so I won't belabor the point or (god forbid) mention the giant issue with the line.
Rhigu, if the Mantic ads bothered you so much, how did you feel about GW starting the beef by announcing TOW just after the new KOW edition dropped? (And please don’t BS that the two were unrelated. GW never makes those kinds of announcements years in advance with no finished work to show.)
Warboss, I get the scale issue, especially with the rank and file. The mounted knights are monstrously huge, but to me that lends them more credibility as Grail Knights or Chaos Knights in a range where one’s status often correlates with the bulk of their model.
They were unrelated. KOW 3.0 was announced 6 months prior and officially released about 4 weeks before the TOW announcement was actually posted. If GW wanted to target that kind of announcement against KOW, they would have done a much better job of it and landed the announcement on an actual date of significance to overshadow it, rather than letting Mantic have the microphone and spotlight for a full 6 months leading up to it.
We also recently heard some "insider knowledge" that the TOW announcement was supposedly unauthorized by higher-ups in GW management and the design team jumped the gun by pushing it out without informing them of the intent or seeking permission to do so. Was some implication that that was done intentionally by some members of the design team who were concerned that the project would be canned in its early stages as it hadn't yet been fully greenlit by management and was only authorized to proceed in a limited conceptual design study, apparently the thinking was that if they announced it publicly it would be harder for management to get rid of it later once it was public. That was also part of the reason for the lengthy gaps between snippets of info, because there was legitimately nothing really done or prepped before the announcement was pushed out, and management clamped down on allowing further communication lest they become beholden to anything that hadn't yet been fully approved or thought out.
would provide a source, but I can't recall where I read/heard it other than that it was within the past month or so.
Local gamers just won't touch anything that isn't GW because "everyone plays GW", and "Ewww, Mantic models are gross!"
OK what about Conquest? "but... Old World..." It's a struggle.
The starter sets for this game look great but I can't afford to drop more money on systems people just will not even consider. I might pick up a few faction taster sets to support Parabellum though.
Disregard. Clicked on this by accident and thought I was in the thread that I had intended to be in. Why are KoW and TOW/Gw being discussed in a Conquest thread lol?
They are competitors, and they aren't. The difference in scale means the minis from one don't work for the other, but they are still both rank and file fantasy. Yet there is a degree of separation that does not exist for KoW.
As for comparisons, household knights would be a pretty poor choice being among PBs oldest and a massive downgrade in quality compared to anything from the past two years.
Household Knights still look awesome even though they are an older kit but that is just my opinion.
The hobby is healthy when there are many different options and healthy communities around them. That is the philosophy of Para Bellum as well that is why they don't allow people badmouthing other games on their Discord and have an #offtopic channel where you can discuss other games.
When every content creator does Warhammer (even though a lot of them dislike it behind doors) and everyone just plays Warhammer no matter how expensive it gets then you hurt the hobby overall. Whether we like it or not, Warhammer is usually the first experience with the hobby and if that experience is bad then it is bad news with everyone.
So yeah it's not hate, it is valid critisim and defending stuff you like without good reason is bad for you too.
After reading some articles and scanning through the PB website, Conquest does not seem cheaper than GW at all. Aren't you paying between 400-700€ for a 2k army as well?
I bought into many different systems (Firestorm Armada, Helldorado, Dropzone Commander, Demonworld, Hordes etc) but all of them died eventually.
If you buy GW minis you can still always sell them at 50-75% of the price. Sometimes even more than purchase price years ago.
When I buy into Conquest, I would probably not be able to sell the minis at all.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Ah and not to mention that nobody in our gaming club (the biggest in Germany) is playing it.
I could have gone for conquest, if not for the scale. I like it a lot more than the old world stuff gw is throwing out now. But the fact a basic infantry rivals a stormcast model for size murders it for me.
Astmeister wrote: After reading some articles and scanning through the PB website, Conquest does not seem cheaper than GW at all. Aren't you paying between 400-700€ for a 2k army as well?
I bought into many different systems (Firestorm Armada, Helldorado, Dropzone Commander, Demonworld, Hordes etc) but all of them died eventually.
If you buy GW minis you can still always sell them at 50-75% of the price. Sometimes even more than purchase price years ago.
When I buy into Conquest, I would probably not be able to sell the minis at all.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Yes, a 2000 point army for the rank and file game will cost your from 400-700$ depending on the list. For 40k, and correct me if i am wrong, the cheaper 2000 points army you can get is 700$ for Adeptus Custodes.
The difference is you get the free rules and updates for life.
And regarding reselling. Conquest releases limited edition Founder's Exclusives. One had a price of 160$ when released and now you can find one on ebay for 500$ https://ebay.to/41SN2IX
So I think with the christmas bundle you can get away with much less than 700€. But that depends how tournament viable you want it I suppose.
Rules free for life:
1.) Not sure how long this will live
2.) Not sure if they will always be free
Reselling:
Limited edition stuff maybe, but only if the system does not die.
I get the point why they went to 38mm or so. But would first try it with regular GW miniatures I have, because not sure this game sticks around for too long. Like I said I don't know anyone who is playing it.
Astmeister wrote: So I think with the christmas bundle you can get away with much less than 700€. But that depends how tournament viable you want it I suppose.
Rules free for life:
1.) Not sure how long this will live
2.) Not sure if they will always be free
Reselling:
Limited edition stuff maybe, but only if the system does not die.
I get the point why they went to 38mm or so. But would first try it with regular GW miniatures I have, because not sure this game sticks around for too long. Like I said I don't know anyone who is playing it.
Its been around 5 years so far and about to release a new faction, seems fine for the near future.
In the battle of anecdotes, several stores near me have large followings that play weekly. There is a lively discord, though I don't have a link.
The knights were hands down the best minis in the starter set. They have that “it” factor that makes them compelling to hold. They’re just really fun bighonk knights.
As for the prices to get into Conquest, they seem to offer a lot of starter sets, samplers, and limited deals for a starter and a couple boxes, that kind of thing. They’re more expensive than Mantic, Victrix or Wargames Atlantic, but compared to GW they feel downright generous.
And Dropzone Commander isn’t dead. In fact, they’re releasing a new core game and a new gimmicky mini game this year. Sorry your local area sucks for variety and you don’t have friends who will play cool games with you instead of chasing GWalibu Stacy’s new hat, but your experience is not universal.
One thing to remember is that Conquest minis aee quite literally MORE mini for the price. 12 infantry boxes are sized like minis GW charges twice as much for. Brutes are near dreadnought size, monsters are HUGE
It's a bit sad that the older kits don't hold the quality of the newer ones all the time. I would like to try out the 100 Kingdoms, but older models like Men-at-Arms look imho too silly.
chaos0xomega wrote:They were unrelated. KOW 3.0 was announced 6 months prior and officially released about 4 weeks before the TOW announcement was actually posted. If GW wanted to target that kind of announcement against KOW, they would have done a much better job of it and landed the announcement on an actual date of significance to overshadow it, rather than letting Mantic have the microphone and spotlight for a full 6 months leading up to it.
KoW 3 might have affect the timing IMO.
The years in advance announcement looked like a bid to keep their market share from drifting away to me. From all the rank and flank games that got a boost when WHFB left the room.
Rihgu wrote:The specific tipping point was The Old World announcement, when Mantic made the post that was like "our square bases never left!" and the ensuing discourse around that in the online community. It made a lot of local people realize and/or start to believe that Mantic wasn't doing "Mantic's thing" and the wider player base wasn't interested in "Mantic's thing". Mantic was doing GW's thing and the player base was interested in "fighting the man (GW)".
They're doing it again with the The Old World releasing today.
I started a new thread so that we don't drive off topic here.
Inquisitor Gideon wrote:I could have gone for conquest, if not for the scale. I like it a lot more than the old world stuff gw is throwing out now. But the fact a basic infantry rivals a stormcast model for size murders it for me.
Same for me. I have developed a strong aversion to buying miniatures that I can only use in one game though, so it's on me rather than Para Bellum.
chaos0xomega wrote: We also recently heard some "insider knowledge" that the TOW announcement was supposedly unauthorized by higher-ups in GW management and the design team jumped the gun by pushing it out without informing them of the intent or seeking permission to do so. Was some implication that that was done intentionally by some members of the design team who were concerned that the project would be canned in its early stages as it hadn't yet been fully greenlit by management and was only authorized to proceed in a limited conceptual design study, apparently the thinking was that if they announced it publicly it would be harder for management to get rid of it later once it was public. That was also part of the reason for the lengthy gaps between snippets of info, because there was legitimately nothing really done or prepped before the announcement was pushed out, and management clamped down on allowing further communication lest they become beholden to anything that hadn't yet been fully approved or thought out.
would provide a source, but I can't recall where I read/heard it other than that it was within the past month or so.
Brisbane (n.) A perfectly reasonable explanation. (Such as the one offered by a person with a gurgling cough which has nothing to do with the fact that they smoke fifty cigarettes a day.)
NinthMusketeer wrote: Hm, not a fan of the new sculpt but it is still a huge improvement over the Toys-R-Us action figure. Shame if it's a collector's series.
Yeah, for a creature with no less than eight limbs, it's really a touch too close to a T pose. I don't need a dancing-on-air GW style pose, but some sense of motion would be welcome.
Most people exposed to such advertisement would already be aware of said alternative. In general, adversarial marketing drives entrenchment, not expansion, of market share.
Is a size and price comparison really adversarial? Every time I buy generic loratadine with it’s “compare to Claritin” label, I’m supporting hostile marketing?
BobtheInquisitor wrote: Is a size and price comparison really adversarial? Every time I buy generic loratadine with it’s “compare to Claritin” label, I’m supporting hostile marketing?
Calling it hostile marketing does sound a touch dramatic, but yes, I'd considered direct comparisons between products adversarial marketing. I also don't think Conquest would benefit from it long term.
God I was looking forward to these but..... yeah they just don't land for me at all
Hopefully weaver courts end up being as novel as the spires were, it'd give me the excuse i've been looking for to try conquest for the last several years
Grunk wrote: God I was looking forward to these but..... yeah they just don't land for me at all
Hopefully weaver courts end up being as novel as the spires were, it'd give me the excuse i've been looking for to try conquest for the last several years
Which models specifically out of curiosity? No shame in not liking some/most/all/whatever as I'm not a fan of all of them either but I was just wondering.
I think the hero units are quite bland, they went in a more turkish/indian direction but didn't really make most of the units ornate/they look like early renders and will be very reliant on the painter to make them decent looking.
The mughal looking infantry's fine but not especially wowey, some of the djinn/efreet stuff is okay but not getting me out of my seat, the big guy they teased looks like he's missing a lot of detail, and the turban wearing fire unit's posing and lack of detail doesn't inspire.
Having gotten to look at the footsoldiers I think i was a bit harsh, these are definitely a step up in terms of being less chunky, and the inf has some very nicely balanced details, enough to not be boring while not going too far.
Very substantive rules update due to drop Monday (from the Happy Hour Stream). Characters in particular are changing in how they operate (Retinues are effectively removed and some of those upgrades are now baked into the respective characters themselves). General balance changes across the board and some more special rules added in. Full Sorcerer Kings lists dropping at the same time. No doubt there's screenshots available.
JimmyWolf87 wrote: Very substantive rules update due to drop Monday (from the Happy Hour Stream). Characters in particular are changing in how they operate (Retinues are effectively removed and some of those upgrades are now baked into the respective characters themselves). General balance changes across the board and some more special rules added in. Full Sorcerer Kings lists dropping at the same time. No doubt there's screenshots available.
That's huge news. Retinues were always kind of a hassle to me, and I am curious how this pans out.
Heh, not sure how I feel about retinues being gone. They were an interesting concept though one which I don't think was very well implemented. Its not a big loss, IMO, as I never really bothered with them anyway, but uh... what are we supposed to do with the retinue minis we already have?
chaos0xomega wrote: Heh, not sure how I feel about retinues being gone. They were an interesting concept though one which I don't think was very well implemented. Its not a big loss, IMO, as I never really bothered with them anyway, but uh... what are we supposed to do with the retinue minis we already have?
I was wondering something similar. Will infantry heroes always just be by themselves on a stand now? or can we add three models just to look better / count as wounds, etc.?
They explained that due to retinues constantly being taken as upgrade, several not even being out, and them saying you NEEDED about 2 characters for a 2000pt army, having models be upgrades was a difficult sell. adding a 140$ price tag to the game
Now they will just be a package of officer upgrades
I read the new army list.
I think it's a good thing that retinue is no longer available because there is no sign that it will be completed no matter how long it takes.
The third sub faction of the Sorcerer Kings, the Tribe mentioned during the vote has been erased.
I feel it lacks integrity to not promote the characters that were used to promote the vote, such as this and there is no announce Old Dominion's Burning Angel.
chaos0xomega wrote: Heh, not sure how I feel about retinues being gone. They were an interesting concept though one which I don't think was very well implemented. Its not a big loss, IMO, as I never really bothered with them anyway, but uh... what are we supposed to do with the retinue minis we already have?
I was wondering something similar. Will infantry heroes always just be by themselves on a stand now? or can we add three models just to look better / count as wounds, etc.?
They suggested on stream that you can effectively customize character stands to be as elaborate as desired so long as it doesn't affect gameplay and the character models themselves are clear.
chaos0xomega wrote: Heh, not sure how I feel about retinues being gone. They were an interesting concept though one which I don't think was very well implemented. Its not a big loss, IMO, as I never really bothered with them anyway, but uh... what are we supposed to do with the retinue minis we already have?
I was wondering something similar. Will infantry heroes always just be by themselves on a stand now? or can we add three models just to look better / count as wounds, etc.?
They suggested on stream that you can effectively customize character stands to be as elaborate as desired so long as it doesn't affect gameplay and the character models themselves are clear.
Good to know, thank you. I'm hoping for a summary of the changes to appear on YouTube; for some reason I have a hard time remembering and wrapping my head around the rules of
this game.
vultute wrote: I read the new army list.
I think it's a good thing that retinue is no longer available because there is no sign that it will be completed no matter how long it takes.
The third sub faction of the Sorcerer Kings, the Tribe mentioned during the vote has been erased.
I feel it lacks integrity to not promote the characters that were used to promote the vote, such as this and there is no announce Old Dominion's Burning Angel.
They where split into their own faction. They realized that the SORC kings are so unique compqred to tribes, they couldn't do rules for them
Id be surprised if they got through 22 factions. Thats a lot for whats still a relatively small company and game. And at their present pace it would take another 15 years for them to get it all out.
For a small company, their output has been IMO remarkable and doubly so considering they don't rely on splashy crowdfunding campaigns for both production and marketing. (And, yes, I understand the business is a side project for the shipping magnate owner)
22 faction !?
I know some articles that mention 18faction, but where can I find the exception about 22faction?
I don't think the tribe will be an interesting faction on its own, so Parabellum should forget about them and focus on more attractive factons.
Rihgu wrote: Sort of the M.O. of the company at this point. They say one thing, then realize they "can't" do that thing.
I've learned to temper expectations.
Can you give other examples because from my point of view they have been pretty consistent.
The entire aghm system they recently re-did because the original plans weren't viable.
The entire Living World system they recently re-did because the original plans weren't viable.
The entire retinue system they recently removed from the game because the original plans weren't viable.
Talking up Old Dominion as the faction without ANY HEALING! AT ALL! PERIOD! NO HEALING! Repeatedly. And then releasing them as a faction with uh, pretty good healing!
"Tontorr is so big it's on TWO bases!"
Less explicitly,
removal of unit entries from army lists (Bound, Court Squires) fits the bill.
Substantial changes to unit entries upon release/right before release.
There has been a magic rework talked about for a long time, which has not materialized yet. I'm pretty sure but not 100% sure they've said it would come with the Sorcerer Kings in a happy hour at one point.
W'adrhun get their three-action monsters removed from the game "for balance" in the very same update that introduces Sorcerer Kings with their own three-action monsters.
There's a few things Nords and Spires players have pointed out recently that I don't necessarily agree with, but yea overall I've learned to take what they say with a grain of salt and wait until models/PDFs are out.
W'adrhun get their three-action monsters removed from the game "for balance" in the very same update that introduces Sorcerer Kings with their own three-action monsters.
I don't follow the rules of the game so I'm curious... is there a big difference between the other stats or the power level of the special abilities between the monsters for the two factions? Or Parabellum specifically cite the the three actions as the reason for the removal? What happens to players who bought and use the models? Can they still use them with a different stat line or are they just sidelined for now?
W'adrhun get their three-action monsters removed from the game "for balance" in the very same update that introduces Sorcerer Kings with their own three-action monsters.
I don't follow the rules of the game so I'm curious... is there a big difference between the other stats or the power level of the special abilities between the monsters for the two factions? Or Parabellum specifically cite the the three actions as the reason for the removal? What happens to players who bought and use the models? Can they still use them with a different stat line or are they just sidelined for now?
Basically, W'adrhun could give a character a mastery to let them ride a dinosaur, and then take an artefact that allowed that dinosaur to be Fanatic (allows tier 3 chanting). The third tier of the Conquest chant line allowed the activating unit to take 3 actions.
So if you devoted an almost 200 point character to a 300 point monster, and began that monster's activation with a token in your chant pool (the W'adrhun specific army mechanic, kind of complicated to explain), it could take 3 actions. GRANTED, A tontorr is pretty powerful. A march action (for 9"), followed by a charge action (6+1d6", allows impacts), followed by a clash (16 attacks, 1s cause extra hits), ended with a trample (10 automatic hits with no special rules) is very powerful especially on a 24W beast, but it did involve ~500 points and some amount of setup.
What happened was the artefact used to make the dinosaur a Fanatic was made to be "infantry only". And as a smaller part, the character that was usually used to ride the dinosaur lost it's ability to buff the dinosaur with the ability to re-roll hits during clashes, and the dinosaur itself went up in points, so a triple layer of nerfs.
At the same time, the Sorcerer Kings get 2 ~250 point monsters with specialties in either killing characters or monsters, and when you "resolve a ritual" (the also complicated Sorcerer King army rule), if an Elemental unit activates next they get 3 actions. So, same deal. 7" march (usually to get into flank), 7+1d6" charge with 5 impact hits, a bunch of attacks (usually with re-rolls if you're fighting your preferred target) and then when said target activates they take 5 automatic hits from Aura of Death. Yes, overall weaker, but also priced down (at this point the Sorc King monster is half the cost of the old W'adrhun monster, but probably not only half as effective). Also, you can theoretically do this multiple times per round with multiple monsters with Sorc Kings, where W'adrhun were always limited to a single one in the army.
Thanks for the detailed rundown of the rules interaction. Honestly, it sounds potentially reasonable for them to make the change from your description though admittedly I've never even seen a game played myself. Initially I thought they got rid fo a unit completely but it sounds more like they got rid of a potentially problematic combo. I do fully understand why players who built their army around that large points sink would be upset though.
For why units are removed before release.
Because unreleased units are not legal, they don't bother looking at or balancing them until they are released.
For why models are removed or unreleased units are taken away, they said if they realize a unit fills the same niche or one is clearly better, they would scrap it.
For example, gotr and fenr filled the same niche, so they didn't bother with them
Rihgu wrote: Sort of the M.O. of the company at this point. They say one thing, then realize they "can't" do that thing.
I've learned to temper expectations.
Can you give other examples because from my point of view they have been pretty consistent.
The entire aghm system they recently re-did because the original plans weren't viable.
The entire Living World system they recently re-did because the original plans weren't viable.
The entire retinue system they recently removed from the game because the original plans weren't viable.
Talking up Old Dominion as the faction without ANY HEALING! AT ALL! PERIOD! NO HEALING! Repeatedly. And then releasing them as a faction with uh, pretty good healing!
"Tontorr is so big it's on TWO bases!"
Less explicitly,
removal of unit entries from army lists (Bound, Court Squires) fits the bill.
Substantial changes to unit entries upon release/right before release.
There has been a magic rework talked about for a long time, which has not materialized yet. I'm pretty sure but not 100% sure they've said it would come with the Sorcerer Kings in a happy hour at one point.
W'adrhun get their three-action monsters removed from the game "for balance" in the very same update that introduces Sorcerer Kings with their own three-action monsters.
There's a few things Nords and Spires players have pointed out recently that I don't necessarily agree with, but yea overall I've learned to take what they say with a grain of salt and wait until models/PDFs are out.
So Aghm system was remade because they grew bigger than expected and manually giving rewards to a 1000 people is not viable.
The Living World system never changed..what are you talking about?
Retinue removal was a rule update. They weren't popular with the community to begin with. It happens.
Regarding removal of units, it only happened for the first four factions. Things change when the game grows and the developers gain experience. For example they changed an infantry unit for the Dweghom to a new Monster.
Magic rework happened. You don't choose spells anymore. All casters have all the spells available from their respective schools.
Sasorijap wrote: So Aghm system was remade because they grew bigger than expected and manually giving rewards to a 1000 people is not viable.
Yes. It changed because it wasn't viable. Exactly like I said.
The Living World system never changed..what are you talking about?
It changed from following individual characters to following grander storylines, again, because it was not viable to follow such small stories.
Retinue removal was a rule update. They weren't popular with the community to begin with. It happens.
Yes.
Regarding removal of units, it only happened for the first four factions. Things change when the game grows and the developers gain experience. For example they changed an infantry unit for the Dweghom to a new Monster.
W'adrhun was the fifth faction. Not sure why you felt like you needed to inform me that things change - you're responding to a post that is an entire list of changes. I'm... quite aware of changes. My primary point is they are terrible at communicating changes and their ongoing intents.
Magic rework happened. You don't choose spells anymore. All casters have all the spells available from their respective schools.
That was a magic *tweak*. They've talked about a grander magic rework. If that's the "rework" they've talked up, then it exactly plays into my point that they're bad at communicating with their players.
For why units are removed before release.
Because unreleased units are not legal, they don't bother looking at or balancing them until they are released.
For why models are removed or unreleased units are taken away, they said if they realize a unit fills the same niche or one is clearly better, they would scrap it.
For example, gotr and fenr filled the same niche, so they didn't bother with them
Vanguards are very quick to say that they playtest unreleased units, and depending on which one is speaking they either playtest them "an equal amount" or "not as much (but still enough!)". Not exactly PB but they do speak on behalf of PB. Plus, as the entire idea of showing us the rules for these units as a preview of what's to come/faction playstyle, huge changes (such as certain Dweghom unit going from Infantry to Monster, or removal of the cheapest unit in a fairly expensive faction) means that they don't serve their purpose as a preview! So there's no real point in showing us these unit profiles, except if they're in immediate plans to be released. And even then, the sculptor might add a cool detail and they'll decide to change the unit's rules to match... In this regard, the slimmed down previews they show of future units in the Sorcerer Kings list is, imho, superior, as long as they can reign themselves in and not decide that the Medium Infantry is going to be Heavy instead.
All I'm saying is with PB it's best to live in the moment with what is here, and not try to look too far in the future. What we have is usually pretty good!
The "previews" are a double-edged sword. They take away some level of mystique and possibility from a players understanding of how a faction plays on the table. If you look and see a selection of units forecasted out 5+ years and none of them appeal to you, you could very well be turned off from playing a certain faction, whereas only forecasting ~1 year leaves open door for the medium/long term possibility and that future development will take you somewhere even more interesting or take the faction in different directions. I know in my own case first getting in I found the preview units to generally seem kinda meh, there were some interesting concepts here and there but on the whole they felt very "more of the same". As they've been rolling some of those units out, and in the process reconceptualizing some of them, I've taken renewed interest in certain factions that I previously dismissed.
W'adrhun get their three-action monsters removed from the game "for balance" in the very same update that introduces Sorcerer Kings with their own three-action monsters.
The post has some disingenous takes but i feel this one is the worst offender. Because it implies the tontorr/apex were the only monsters capable of doing 3 actions. Both the nord and city state monsters can perform a free action too.
The w'adrun monster chant *was* busted and could be spammed with greater ease.
W'adrhun get their three-action monsters removed from the game "for balance" in the very same update that introduces Sorcerer Kings with their own three-action monsters.
The post has some disingenous takes but i feel this one is the worst offender. Because it implies the tontorr/apex were the only monsters capable of doing 3 actions. Both the nord and city state monsters can perform a free action too.
The w'adrun monster chant *was* busted and could be spammed with greater ease.
Sea Jotnars, Ice Jotnars, Haphaestians and Prometheans (and now Mahuts) are limited in what their third action can be. W'adrhun had true 3-action monsters and now Sorcerer Kings are the only ones. You could only ever have a single monster perform 3 actions in a W'adrhun list, because it relied on a specific item which was once per army. That's... definitively NOT spam-mable, let alone "with greater ease".
With Sorcerer Kings you could set up 3-4 monsters to triple activate in a round.
And I just now remembered the Trinivarta, which can get 3 actions plus a free Volley (which can target every enemy regiment in range of an objective at the same time)
The monster triple activation could be done every round (and it can still be pulled off with the hero winning a duel)
The SK monsters 'may' be able to pull that multiple times in a row... but the rituals will need 1) One to turn to get it started. Most rituals need about 8 to 12 markers, meaning you'll be either needing to sacrifice certain elemental units, take multiple turns (read, 2) or run MSU out of the wazoo.
2) it will be available the next turn. You are telegraphing the move to your opponent.
3) You can only get that triple action after a ritual. A ritual is an activation in itself and in the mid game the activation order is extremely strict. The 2nd monster to benefit will have taken 4 activations.
4) SK monsters are inferior to W'adruns. Without buffs, an apex is 50 points cheaper than the ravannavar, has an extra point of resolve, terrifying 2 vs 1 and deadly blades. It can also be more tankier with chants, as it goes up to evasion 2.
vultute wrote: People who see this teaser will think that they can control all four elemental magic by themselves. However, we can only use fire and wind magic.
It's possible that they haven't released everything yet....
Thanks for the preview pics! I would offer though that if they're officially using it as marketing material at a show then it's probably not a "leak" though.
I like the Mutant Chronicles-looking magma dwarfs. Not really feeling anything else in that release.
The RPG seems like a weird move to me since the game has focused on crunch and tournament type gamers to the exclusion of fluff gamers since the beginning. How are they going to reach RPG gamers?
Stone forged is not what I expected, magmaforged are ok - don't love them, already have 2 units if flame berserks, don't know that I particularly like these sculpts, mahut/favored is cool but not sure I'm sold on the design of the elephant itself - its supposed to be an animated stone statue - I see that statue but not the animated bit, archers are neat.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: I the game has focused on crunch and tournament type gamers to the exclusion of fluff gamers since the beginning.
What?
Conquest had a map campaign system in 1.0, with a campaign supplement and online rules. And they have introduced the basis in 2.0, though I think they are still working on army specific rules for campaigns.
Isn't Erich Schur's body balance strange?
Raegh Ragodosh and other miniature's shape in this game are all very realistically balanced.
Only he seems unnaturally exaggerated.
StDante wrote: A new City States monster was revealed today. The Artisan Series Talos. PB team confirmed that this one will be a new regiment! He looks awesome!
That does look neat. I like how it reflects more of the tech side of the city states. I wish they had actual guns though.
Leandros (rules dev), on the discord wrote:Here's a snippet of the Talos:
"Descendant of the Brazen Race: This Model does not suffer the effects of Aura of Death (X) and Decay (X) Special Rules. In addition, this Regiment counts as 6 Stands for the purposes of Seizing Objective Zones and does not suffer Hits from the Lethal Demise Special Rule."
Mythological facts about Talos: Unlike commonly held belief Talos was not a "robot" - that is not the greek meaning of the word automaton. Automaton is "of its own". In popular understanding of Greek mythology Talos is often conflated with the Bronze Colossus of Rhodes.
There are two mythological interpretations of the Talos.
1) The least common: Talos was a man with Bronze Skin, 30 meters tall and had a single vein running through his body that ended in his heel (might sound familiar). He was the son of Kres the creator and king of the island of Crete (Kriti). That vain was plugged with a nail that the sorcereress Media tricked him into removing thus exposing his week spot and perishing. This is the base for the story of Achilles. He protected and upheld the law in the island and patrolled it by walking the entire island 3 times a day (about 260kms * 3).
2) The most common: Talos was a bronze bull gifted by Zeus to protect Europa while she resided in the island of Crete. Also had one vain and a weakspot. According to the myth the bull is relevant because Zeus transformed into a bull to seduce Europa. Don't ask, Greek mythology is weird.
A mechanics hint and some trivia and lore on the Talos.
The porcelain giant chibi elephant isn't my thing but the person on the dais and the mechano-centaurs are cool. Is the person on the throne normal (by Conquest standards) size or a giant?
warboss wrote: The porcelain giant chibi elephant isn't my thing but the person on the dais and the mechano-centaurs are cool. Is the person on the throne normal (by Conquest standards) size or a giant?
warboss wrote: The porcelain giant chibi elephant isn't my thing but the person on the dais and the mechano-centaurs are cool. Is the person on the throne normal (by Conquest standards) size or a giant?
FWIW, the centaurs aren't mechanically augmented as far as I'm aware; they're 'just' undead centaurs in fancy armour.
Among the countless deaths that occurred during the Sorcerer King's evacuation, the death of the last elephant could perhaps have gone unnoticed had it not been Hormus’ own loyal steed who died in defense of his master. Since then the grief-stricken Sorcerer King has crafted and animated hundreds, if not thousands, of faithful stone replicas of his beloved steed. Each more grandiose than the last, they have all, thus far, disappointed him. Nevertheless he has gifted hundreds of them to his faithful subjects so that they might enjoy their protection like he once did. These ponderous stone constructs have been the bane of countless foes since, their brutal power a testament to the craft and might of the Sorcerer Kings.
warboss wrote: The porcelain giant chibi elephant isn't my thing but the person on the dais and the mechano-centaurs are cool. Is the person on the throne normal (by Conquest standards) size or a giant?
FWIW, the centaurs aren't mechanically augmented as far as I'm aware; they're 'just' undead centaurs in fancy armour.
The centaurs are apparently not undead, I can't find it now for some reason but the lore says they are one of the few living servants of Hazlia.
warboss wrote: The porcelain giant chibi elephant isn't my thing but the person on the dais and the mechano-centaurs are cool. Is the person on the throne normal (by Conquest standards) size or a giant?
FWIW, the centaurs aren't mechanically augmented as far as I'm aware; they're 'just' undead centaurs in fancy armour.
The centaurs are apparently not undead, I can't find it now for some reason but the lore says they are one of the few living servants of Hazlia.
I think you've got your wires crossed with Hashashins and Cultists. Both types of centaur have both Animated Vessel and Memories of Old, indicating they're undead. Well, as undead as any of the Old Dominion are, if we're going into lore technicalities.
what they are is not as undead
They didnt believe in Hazlia until they literally saw him fall from the sky right before the curse of undead. so their bodies are still fresh.
Big First Blood Changes and Balance pass on all factions
RPG is moving fast
New releases for the Dweghom next month including two resculpts (Flame Berserkers and Steelshaper)
5th Anniversary Founder's Exclusive is going to be a Fishgnome Riding a Cyborg Shark with a Lazer Eye lol
warboss wrote: The porcelain giant chibi elephant isn't my thing but the person on the dais and the mechano-centaurs are cool. Is the person on the throne normal (by Conquest standards) size or a giant?
FWIW, the centaurs aren't mechanically augmented as far as I'm aware; they're 'just' undead centaurs in fancy armour.
The centaurs are apparently not undead, I can't find it now for some reason but the lore says they are one of the few living servants of Hazlia.
Their lore and rules indicate quite strongly that they're undead. The distinction with the majority of the Old Dominion is that they effectively died and became undead at the same point so are relatively intact and retain all the physical function they had in life.
Oh ok I see the distinction now- unliving but not skeletal/mummified/whatever.
"While most who serve in the legions of the Old Dominion are mummified husks of their living selves – for faith in life is required to be raised into undeath, and countless faithful existed throughout the reign of the Dominion – such is not the case with the Centaurs. Those Kerykes and Prodromoi that were blessed with unlife were those that became faithful to him during his fall, having no time to decay and wither and being raised almost immediately after their death. As such, they now serve the Old Dominion with a most unique honor, belonging to the chosen few that retain their flesh-bound form while they venture further into unlife…"
An easier way to confirm Old Dominion units are already dead is to check they have Animated Vessel on Army List. This tells us that the Centaurs are already dead, and the only living units are the Cultists and Hassasins.
There is still no lore that the Centaurs are completely extinct. So, I hope living Centaurs will be added to the City States. I don't like the City States cavalry, which is unremarkable, unlike the 100 Kingdom Orders.
vultute wrote: An easier way to confirm Old Dominion units are already dead is to check they have Animated Vessel on Army List. This tells us that the Centaurs are already dead, and the only living units are the Cultists and Hassasins.
There is still no lore that the Centaurs are completely extinct. So, I hope living Centaurs will be added to the City States. I don't like the City States cavalry, which is unremarkable, unlike the 100 Kingdom Orders.
The devs have been pretty adamant that City States won't get Centaurs because they want to keep the aesthetic/silhouette for Old Dominion or something, and not confuse people. It's not a good reasoning, imo, but it's one they've consistently given when asked about it.
Given the existence of Buccephaloi and the minotaurs of the City States, the devs' statement is not convincing.
If centaurs can only exist in one faction, they should have belonged to the City States.
Old Dominions can keep their identity by having creepy corpses belong to them, even if they have fewer mythical creatures.
Minotaurs were integrated in the Dominion society. During the Fall, among those that fled and later founded the City States were a bunch of these Bred. This explains why the City States have Minotaurs.
Many Minotaurs also stayed back, particularly the Buccephaloi, and so became undead after the Fall. This explains why the Old Dominion has Minotaurs.
Centaurs were nomadic tribes, living isolated and being a nuissance, so not integrated in the Dominion society. They didn't run away along the rest of peoples that made it alive after the Fall. This explains why the City States have no Centaurs.
During the Fall, all the Centaurs were chillin' until getting crushed by fallen Hazlia. Moments before their death they became believers. This explains why the Old Dominion has Centaurs.
flame berserkers really needed a resculpt. those look nice.
I wonder if this means dweghs aint getting anything new for a long time (at least till other early factions also get completed) or if they'll keep pumping alternative/rescultps and new units on short term.
considering how much pb likes Raeghs, I think the latter.
VBS wrote: flame berserkers really needed a resculpt. those look nice.
I wonder if this means dweghs aint getting anything new for a long time (at least till other early factions also get completed) or if they'll keep pumping alternative/rescultps and new units on short term.
considering how much pb likes Raeghs, I think the latter.
PB has said a few times that the published rosters are not the final lists, they will keep iterating them over time with potential new models and the eventual inclusion of sub factions.
I know they want to add subfactions and stuff. Just wondering if they will prioritize a bit more finishing uncompleted rosters. Or if instead they keep adding new units to "finished" rosters before even completing the old ones.
To know if it will be another five years before we see all the Spire units
KidCthulhu wrote: If they made real Fishgnome units, I would actually buy their products.
I'd probably pick up a pack as well despite their oversized (for my tastes) scale. In the meantime, I've had to make due with D&D prepainted Locathah minis instead. I can always green stuff a simple hat onto them if needed.
Several online shops were announcing the release of City States' Seer at the end of September, but these have now been removed.
It wasn't even in the latest catalog. Was it mentioned in Happy Hour?
It was mentioned as being explicitly removed for not matching the direction they want to take the game (less 1 off officers).
It was said that the Seer wasn't even sculpted/rendered at the time it was decided to be removed.
Wondering where the communication error here is - from PB to the community, or PB to the distributors. Because it's up on Miniature Market and Golden Distribution.
There are going to reveal the next faction during the December Happy Hour.
Noone knows what it is yet but people during the World Tournament were told that the 10th faction will be Weaver Courts which are creepy alien wood elves.
I'd hazard a guess that it's Sellswords or Hel for 9th (believe the latter was a close runner up to Sorcerer Kings in the voting?); they've had model concepts shown. Looking forward to Weavers so hopefully the re-work has gone/is going smoothly enough that they're the following faction on the docket.
That Archangel and the Sicarii might drag me right back into 100K, they look amazing.
The new update is out. Their website is a little wonky but the army builder is updated (mostly). App, as far as I know, is not currently updated.
There's some fairly minor core rule changes that have fairly large impact. Priority roll is no longer influenced by size of command stack but who lost the last priority roll. Volley range is measured from the center of the attackers stand. Which facing you charge is based on your front rank only. 3 action cap regardless of how many free additional actions you have from special rules. Among other things
New faction specific Fishgnomes! Love them, absolutely adorable!
The Quatl looks amazing, I've seen some really nice photos of it around online, the photo here doesn't seem to do it justice.
I'm not really a fan of the conquest game its never really caught my eye, but I'd be tempted to pick this up as a kit if I can build it without the rider/saddle. Or at least with minimal work to fix any missing areas where is goes. Quetzalcoatlus and other pterosaurs are my favourite prehistoric creatures, and I'd love to build one of these. It would mostly be a display piece but I'd find use for it in games like Judge Dredd, even just as a back ground piece for games set in the cursed earth.
vultute wrote: No monster model. No Artisan Series.
It's a modest lineup for the end of the year...
Possibly. Though I'd argue that their sheer output over the rest of the year surpasses most other companies by a wide margin so one could take solace in that...
Will the 100 Kingdom army list update be rolled out together with the other factions in February?
I would like to have that clarified as some retailers have release dates for Crusader/Men at Arms and New Theist Priest in January and April respectively.
vultute wrote: Will the 100 Kingdom army list update be rolled out together with the other factions in February?
I would like to have that clarified as some retailers have release dates for Crusader/Men at Arms and New Theist Priest in January and April respectively.
New 100K Rules Coming in January!
As I understand it, everything releases in January except for the new Men at Arms/Crusaders. They will be limited to the One Player Starter until spring, when they will be released individually.
I don't object to the four founders of Sorcerer King being made into merchandise, but the company should first create all four elemental units and magics in Sorcerer King's army.
I've never played this game but I saw the siegebreaker abomination and went on about it a bit, so my wife nabbed me one for Christmas. Amazing model, took about 2 hours to put together. Almost no mold lines, but, the sprue attachment points were often huge and took a bit to polish out. Still, the thing is beefy and glorious. I loves it.
Those knights on foot with the flails take me back to some serious nostalgia, a cool knights vs. demons play set I had as a kid. They've knocked the new 100k sculpts out of the park overall IMO.
Not what I was expecting, we know Weavers got a re-work so probably pushed down the track a bit but very surprised that it isn't Hel. Unless this is a swerve and it's actually the Sellswords and there happens to be a single unit from the Asian-inspired faction in their roster or something. Good times either way. I just want to find out more about the Quiet.
highlord tamburlaine wrote: I wouldn't mind an Asian faction that takes inspiration from other places besides just Japan once in a while.
Said as someone with Japanese family and relatives that live there.
I'm always down for oni- inspired models however. Especially with some big kanabo clubs.
Love that type of weapon - is there a difference betweem a Tetsubo and a Kanabo?
Tetsubo is made of iron.
Hence the "tetsu"
Kanabo is a more generic term, but as kanabo means "metal stick" they are all pretty interchangeable.
Its just that a tetsubo is specially made of iron.
It is a Brute only army which is very interesting.
Not entirely true. Shikigami are classed as Infantry. Though it does seem that its mostly brutes.
What's interesting is though is the modular regiment rule, which allows you to mix different unit types.
I had two questions about Yoroni's sudden appearance and why Sorcerer King didn't distribute the Four Elementals for sale like Yoroni did.
I ultimately concluded that Sorcerer King, who concentrated and sold two elementals in advance, and Yoroni, who distributed them, were two separate experiments to make good use of the setting that Weaver Court has sub factions for each of the four seasons.
schoon wrote: There are some really nice sculpts in that range...
They are the souls of the four Horseman's soldiers casted into the elemental plane
There they stayed for years until they head the prayers of humanity, and learned about enlightenment
long and short, the souls attained enlightment, returned to the material plane.
So theyre Conquests vwrsions of chaos daemons but w a reverse buddhism concept (rather than humans attaining enlightenment to enter heaven, the spirit things attain enlightenment to enter the material realm)?
Conquest really deserves a lot more respect and attention for how clever all the lore is.
chaos0xomega wrote: So theyre Conquests vwrsions of chaos daemons but w a reverse buddhism concept (rather than humans attaining enlightenment to enter heaven, the spirit things attain enlightenment to enter the material realm)?
Conquest really deserves a lot more respect and attention for how clever all the lore is.
yup, and they do consider the material plane heavan
That's were the command stack comes into play. You have to be prepared and plan accordingly. Sometimes losing initiative can lead to your opponent charging something that you want him to charge.
That is seriously the Big Chungus faction! They're probably the size traditionally of Hill Giants in D&D terms. Nice sculpts though but not for me personally.
You at least. Game Kastle and one other shop sells Conquest. Game Kastle had a demo day, but after that, nothing. Fact that Old World dropped a year later did not help keep it going.
You at least. Game Kastle and one other shop sells Conquest. Game Kastle had a demo day, but after that, nothing. Fact that Old World dropped a year later did not help keep it going.
Yes, GW's hold over people's minds is hard to contest.
Astmeister wrote: I played 4 games of Conquest and 3 games of ToW 2 weeks ago. Conquest was honestly much better.
Yes i understand the strategic reason for reviving the old world as it was to get back old timers and curious Total War newcomers, but there was a big missed opportunity to modernize the gameplay.
I mean, technically, Total War is more alternate activations than IGOUGO, so not sure this even caters to the videogamers, but rather purely to nostalgic old timers.
Conquest is simply so much more pleasant and organic to play.
I think ToW should have just copied 6th edition with fine tuning the balance but this is just me.
There are plenty of reasons why ToW is not really good but IGOUGO is not the problem. This is a signature of Warhammer.
Astmeister wrote: I think ToW should have just copied 6th edition with fine tuning the balance but this is just me.
There are plenty of reasons why ToW is not really good but IGOUGO is not the problem. This is a signature of Warhammer.
Anyway Conquest and Warhammer can both exist.
Signature doesn't mean good. And IGOUGO is a major problem for many reasons brought up time and again everywhere on the web so not gonna discuss it here.
People seem to be just used and expecting that in the biggest GW games. It's just tradition at this point, not tried and tested quality wargaming.
Hell, there is even a YT video of Andy Chambers saying they made a mistake not switching to AA back in the day.
I play Net EA (Epic Armageddon) so I know stuff about AA. But honestly it has the problem that armies with lots of activations always have an advantage.
I think with 40k Apocalypse GW found a quite good way in limiting this.
Conquest uses cards and reinforcement system to limit it. I think it works quite well but also I think 15+ activations in Conquest is also very good.
I went to the site to see if there were more pics of the Asian bard spidermancer posted earlier and saw this as well which might not have been posted here. Definitely a cool take on animated armor. I could see Keanu taking them on in a 46 Ronin prequel.
Sasorijap wrote: Why is everyone complaining about the scale of Conquest? Old World has a completely different scale to Age of Sigmar and no one complains about that.
The main issue for some is not having enough models on the table
For others its that they need new terrain for 40mm games compare to 28-32mm which can mostly share the same terrain
Some also only buy 3rd party stuff if it will also proxy as a Warhammer army because the other game isn't at their local and they don't know how/want to try and push and promote a new game against the giant
I mainly use fantasy figs for RPG or skirmish purposes and combine them from a variety of manufacturers/lines so they have to look appropriate together. Having supposed humans the size of ogres doesn't work well visually in that lineup unfortunately. It's a shame because there are a lot of great looking figs in the Conquest line with more being added every year that I would want to buy.
I was purging the basement of junk this weekend and opened up the initial Core starter set again and saw up close the model sizes. I almost forgot how big they are. It's a shame as I really like the Oni army they just released, but it would be way out of line of all my other Samurai/Japanese themed models.
The first ones I ever saw in person were the undead (or bionmechanical?) Roman style legionaries at a swap meet at the FLGS and they were almost the size of my undead Minotaurs from the D&D minis line.
Did they ever say why they chose such a unique scale? Plastic kits can get a ton of detail into normal 28mm-32mm figs so I don't see that as a necessity. Was it specifically so that their own stuff was visually consistent and potentially usable in game asthetically? It's such a shame because some fo the figs are incredible (like the mechanolion cavalry above).
Visual appeal is the main stated reason, the game has a bigger table presence and becomes more visually attractive in public. Because it stands out from the crowd it creates its own marketing potential.
Getting the level of detail youre talking about onto a 28mm plastic mini costs a lot more than doing it on a 40mm mini. Finer detail means going slower using finer cutting buts that break a lot more and cost more to replace (standard part of toolmaking, its an expected part of the process). That same level of detail can be achieved at lower cost by using larger bits at a hugher speed at 40mm, dradtucally reducing cost in the process.
Ease of painting - more beginner friendly, less small fiddly stuff to worry about, easier for a novice to paint it so looks better on the table (hand in hand with my first point).
I dont think they ever outright admitted to it but they very strongly implied that they didnt want to become another refugee camp for WHFB players looking for an alternative ruleset to play with their old armies. They needed to move kits to make it worthwhile for them to do it, and they would be hsrder pressed to do that if there was a large segmemt of the community playing with minis from other companies, so they went with 40 to guarantee nrw model sales, knowing it would be a disincentive and require them to build a community from scratch.
Being 40mm makes you stand out. Sure it means less cross compatibility but that is true of any game that isn't a GW scale.
I suspect that Conquest is the kind of game that really makes a visual impact on the tabletop over online where - honestly - photos are good but they don't really sell scale. Esp if the photos are all of things the same scale as each other in a battle.
Overread wrote: Being 40mm makes you stand out. Sure it means less cross compatibility but that is true of any game that isn't a GW scale.
I suspect that Conquest is the kind of game that really makes a visual impact on the tabletop over online where - honestly - photos are good but they don't really sell scale. Esp if the photos are all of things the same scale as each other in a battle.
Yeah their monsters are enormous and they definitely draw the crowds at shows.
Yeah and honestly the prices are not that insane either. It's not like 75mm models that really can catch attention but then the prices on them plus any terrain or game features tend to really really put people off them.
Overread wrote: Being 40mm makes you stand out. Sure it means less cross compatibility but that is true of any game that isn't a GW scale.
I suspect that Conquest is the kind of game that really makes a visual impact on the tabletop over online where - honestly - photos are good but they don't really sell scale. Esp if the photos are all of things the same scale as each other in a battle.
I'd say you are correct. I got into Conquest around Christmas last year but I wasn't super sold on the models when I saw them on the web store. Larger models seemed an odd choice for a mass battle rank and flank game and the size of the models isn't communicated in any way in close up photos. They also have a lot less fiddly, densely packed detail than most 28mm models. The visual spectacle that the larger scale models give ranked up on their trays properly hits when you see an army across the table or view a more distant image of a game being played. Basically conquest models look great viewed as an army on the table top, where as 28mm models have their best impact viewed close up as a single model or unit.
Have they mentioned doing another game? I don't watch the streams in full (only occasionally zipping through them at intervals to see previews) so don't know if they've hinted at something like that.
If it was in a completely different genre like space scifi then I suppose it's possible. If it was a time period/setting/genre that even had the remote possibility of figure crossover with Conquest (whether officially or just unofficially), I'd say that would be a bad idea and would just serve to annoy or anger their existing customers.
warboss wrote: Have they mentioned doing another game? I don't watch the streams in full (only occasionally zipping through them at intervals to see previews) so don't know if they've hinted at something like that.
If it was in a completely different genre like space scifi then I suppose it's possible. If it was a time period/setting/genre that even had the remote possibility of figure crossover with Conquest (whether officially or just unofficially), I'd say that would be a bad idea and would just serve to annoy or anger their existing customers.
They haven't even finished this one. Shifting gears when they still haven't delivered what they promised would not be a good financial nor social (in the sense that it will irk parts of their customer base who may not want to see their efforts divided) move.
Maybe they'll make a sci-fi spin off a decade or so down the line. Probably way too early to tell.
warboss wrote: Have they mentioned doing another game? I don't watch the streams in full (only occasionally zipping through them at intervals to see previews) so don't know if they've hinted at something like that.
If it was in a completely different genre like space scifi then I suppose it's possible. If it was a time period/setting/genre that even had the remote possibility of figure crossover with Conquest (whether officially or just unofficially), I'd say that would be a bad idea and would just serve to annoy or anger their existing customers.
They haven't even finished this one. Shifting gears when they still haven't delivered what they promised would not be a good financial nor social (in the sense that it will irk parts of their customer base who may not want to see their efforts divided) move.
Maybe they'll make a sci-fi spin off a decade or so down the line. Probably way too early to tell.
It depends; if Conquest starts selling well enough that they can run two teams at once and keep up with design, marketing, production and all for both concurrently then it can be a great direction to take a firm.
It's only a problem if they try to cover two games without any team/infrastructure expansion and thus can only do one at a time.
That Unhallowed Sepulchre dual kit is insane. Nice bit of bonus terrain too depending on which build you go for (though could probably pretty easily magnetize for either.
Dweghom are always a bit hit or miss for me but these fall on the right side I think.
If Unhallowed Sepulcher is the new name for Profane Sepulcher, then the Old Dominion Army List is now full.
So where did they go? Their images were used in the merchandising vote and they were in the first teaser, so I feel like I was tricked by the creators.
The fiery angelman is just concept art that hasn't become anything, yet.
It's something you sort of get used to with Para Bellum. Things they show can often be shown too early/things are way too malleable in general for previews (of concept art, rules, really anything) to be taken literally.
It's the artwork that sold me on the faction as well. A lot of the core elements of the Karyatid design did make it into the models (other than the disc-like/halo mask) but obviously didn't work as a direct translation for whatever reason.
My personal hope for the other figure is that it's either a new unit down the line or it becomes the nucleus for a plastic Fallen Divinity; the current one is still an Artisan Series.
Why did they have to take it in such an extremely awkward pose?
I just don't like how precarious it looks. Probably won't be, and I can make sure of that myself, but it still irritates me.
Maybe we'll end up with a Nords/ City State situation where we end up with piles of giants to field, with at least one model actually standing on solid ground rather than behaving like a heavy warjack looking to do its damndest to remove itself from the base.
Corvus Belli started it in metal... and GW ran with it with plastic. We started with tactical rocks and one foot running poses and have advanced to the structural support ribbons and hair stage for years now!
Feels a little early to start marketing on a new faction if they are that far out; esp as they just got a new faction out not that long ago. So I'd think start of Q3 perhaps?
Weaver Courts are apparently sort of outside their typical release cadence as they'd obviously been working on them for a long time anyway prior to having a rethink and they wanted to get them on the table sooner if possible because folks have been waiting for so long. Speaking to the team at UKGE, Weavers will be getting a pre-release model in the same vein as the Kitsune for Yoroni and the first waves should be around September. Aim is to have enough diversity in the range to field a decent 2,000pts army by the holiday period.
).
