The black substance is the blood of the fallen god Hazlia.
"While Hazlia’s Fall and subsequent annihilation of the population of Capitas infused the very stones of Capitas with his power, nowhere was this more evident than in his greatest temples. Here the very blood of Hazlia oozed from the walls, infusing his holiest icons and statuary with a dark parody of life. The beautiful Karyatids that once ringed the great temple’s temenoi have come to life and, in a grotesque parody of their ritual purpose, now hunt down all interlopers in their god’s domain. Only the most zealous and dedicated of Hazlia’s servants can hope to bind these unholy creations in common purpose to unleash their horror upon the battlefield, where missiles creatide of divine blood and sheer spite make a mockery of mortal armor and flesh."
Love to find out the price-point on that new starter set. If they've managed to make that appealing then I'm probably accidentally starting 2 new factions.
City States look great. The statues and hoplites are the standouts; Minotaurs are decent enough. Those new Dominion sets are incredible.
vultute wrote: At that livestream, did they say anything aboutunreleased factions?
Quite a bit, but most overlapped with what we already knew.
Sorcerer Kings:
Despite popular memes, are NOT Math Wizards.
Made deals with elemental forces.
Middle eastern themed with auxiliary subfaction themed after steppe horsemen
Hel:
Nordic death cult
Supported by half-dragon monster men (described as "mix between argonians and gargoyles")
Use spire and dwarf tech
Use drakes (like dweghom hellbringer drake)
Sellswords:
Core army themed after Black Army of Hungary
will have mercenary units from Spires, Dweghom (as examples)
mercenary units will be able to be used in their primary faction (Dweghom merc unit can be used in Dweghom army list)
can be used as a way to explore unreleased factions, example given: Blademaster unit from the Quiet, years before Quiet actually come out.
vultute wrote: At that livestream, did they say anything aboutunreleased factions?
Quite a bit, but most overlapped with what we already knew.
Sorcerer Kings:
Despite popular memes, are NOT Math Wizards.
Made deals with elemental forces.
Middle eastern themed with auxiliary subfaction themed after steppe horsemen
Hel:
Nordic death cult
Supported by half-dragon monster men (described as "mix between argonians and gargoyles" Use spire and dwarf tech
Use drakes (like dweghom hellbringer drake)
Sellswords:
Core army themed after Black Army of Hungary
will have mercenary units from Spires, Dweghom (as examples)
mercenary units will be able to be used in their primary faction (Dweghom merc unit can be used in Dweghom army list)
can be used as a way to explore unreleased factions, example given: Blademaster unit from the Quiet, years before Quiet actually come out.
So basically -
> Azracs / Alin
> Not-Norsca
> Dogs of War
I'm pretty interested in Hel. I want to see what the Dragonmen look like.
January
Old Dominion: "Heavy Metal" Founders Exclusive
Old Dominion: Karyatids
Old Dominion: Kanaphores
Old Dominion: Mounted Strategos
Spires: Incarnate Sentinels
February
Conquest Army Support Packs Wave 4
Conquest Objective Markers and Tokens
City States vs Nords 2 Player Starter Set
City States Polemarch
City States Aristarch
City States: Hoplites
City States: Phalangites
City States: Minotaur Thyreans
City States: Minotaur Haspists
City States Faction Dice on Gray swirl Dice
TLAOK Softcover Rulebook - English 2.0
March
City States: Army Support Pack W4
W’adrhŭn: Chieftain
W’adrhŭn: Veterans
Old Dominion: Athanatoi
Old Dominion: Varangians
Dweghom: Herald of Magma
Organised Play: Paint & Take
April
First Blood Starters - all faction
City States: Mechanist
City States: Promethean
City States: Hephaestian
Third of all, seems to me like in all the excitement about the City-States, people completely skipped over the new and shiney mounted Strategos and plastic Incarnate Sentinels
Character miniatures went from $28.99 to $24.99 MSRP
Infantry Sets move from $42.99 to $39.99 MSRP
Brutes and Cavalry are steady at $49.99
There's also a new ditigal catalogue, giving a very high quality look at all the new 2023 releases, including all of the first wave of the City-States releases.
Hey! The plastic incarnate sentinels were posted, like 2-3 pages back!
Aren't the price decreases just putting us back to where we were before the troubling times of the world? When they increased prices back then they did say it would be temporary.
RomanHockeyAlligator wrote: Third of all, seems to me like in all the excitement about the City-States, people completely skipped over the new and shiney mounted Strategos and plastic Incarnate Sentinels
Thanks! It's likely that you couldn't do it in your first post to prevent spammers from joining the forum and posting links only.
The mounted strategos really does look nice. Did they do an infantry version of that sculpt as well (with the same armor and helm)? Hopefully they'll offer the catalog as a downloadable pdf as well for ease of use.
Automatically Appended Next Post: The wadrun chieftain looks pretty cool as well. In general, the figs for this line look 35mm+ even for "normal" humans. Is that the case? If so, I'm guessing that the chieftain is probably oldhammer ogre in size.
RomanHockeyAlligator wrote: Third of all, seems to me like in all the excitement about the City-States, people completely skipped over the new and shiney mounted Strategos and plastic Incarnate Sentinels
Thanks! It's likely that you couldn't do it in your first post to prevent spammers from joining the forum and posting links only.
The mounted strategos really does look nice. Did they do an infantry version of that sculpt as well (with the same armor and helm)? Hopefully they'll offer the catalog as a downloadable pdf as well for ease of use.
Automatically Appended Next Post: The wadrun chieftain looks pretty cool as well. In general, the figs for this line look 35mm+ even for "normal" humans. Is that the case? If so, I'm guessing that the chieftain is probably oldhammer ogre in size.
There's a Strategos on foot but he doesn't have that same helmet.
Also yeah, Wadrun tend to be pretty damn beefy. I wonder how much he's going to overlap his base.
The wadrun chieftain looks pretty cool as well. In general, the figs for this line look 35mm+ even for "normal" humans. Is that the case? If so, I'm guessing that the chieftain is probably oldhammer ogre in size.
The official scale is "38mm". The W'adrhun are generally ogre sized, yea.
As a side note, I have no idea what's the exact lore behind this particular character model, but-
When one looks closely at the Polemarch, he does not seem particularly, human. More like an automata fashioned to broadly resemble a human.
His limbs as well as his neck, are made of mechanical pistons, joints and such, while his chest and all the other "fleshy" bits seem to be pieces of armour broadly fashioned to look like a naked human body.
Anyone caught more about him from livestreams or such?
Rihgu wrote:The official scale is "38mm". The W'adrhun are generally ogre sized, yea.
Thanks. I'm not looking for a full game to get into at the moment but I think alot of the figs (especially characters) are great for RPG character models where the scale matters a lot less (though it can still be visually jarring).
RomanHockeyAlligator wrote:As a side note, I have no idea what's the exact lore behind this particular character model, but-
When one looks closely at the Polemarch, he does not seem particularly, human. More like an automata fashioned to broadly resemble a human.
His limbs as well as his neck, are made of mechanical pistons, joints and such, while his chest and all the other "fleshy" bits seem to be pieces of armour broadly fashioned to look like a naked human body.
Anyone caught more about him from livestreams or such?
Thanks for pointing it out. I liked the model and pose but I didn't zoom in and hadn't noticed the biomechanical elements.
How's this for news? A distributor has accidentally(?) revealed the presence of another infantry dual kit for the City States, which will build Thorakites or Aghema.
Based on research, Thorakites seem like some sort of "heavy skirmisher" unit and Aghema might be a bodyguard type unit.
This game seems to have so many fantastic concepts for armies, but the miniatures are just bleh IMO.
If they were all to the quality of the sea/ice jotnar, they would be hard to resist. Instead, they are pretty much all chunky and weirdly proportioned.
Illumini wrote: This game seems to have so many fantastic concepts for armies, but the miniatures are just bleh IMO.
If they were all to the quality of the sea/ice jotnar, they would be hard to resist. Instead, they are pretty much all chunky and weirdly proportioned.
The detail is also soft enough to seem sculpted at 28mm scale and then scaled up to 38mm. The local "pressganger" has amazing pro painted armies but that really really relies on emphasizing/adding detail through painting, looking at unpainted minis it's clear to me I couldn't get them to look good at all with basic techniques.
The City States aren't the slam dunk the Dominion were, but I still like them. The Polemarch reminds me of the Imperial Legion designs from Elder Scrolls Online.
Oh yea the actual trolls are quite nice, I bought a box for use in other games. 2-3€/figure for monstrous infantry ain't bad. Doubtless I'm gonna buy those feathered little velociraptor swarms too.
Illumini wrote: This game seems to have so many fantastic concepts for armies, but the miniatures are just bleh IMO.
If they were all to the quality of the sea/ice jotnar, they would be hard to resist. Instead, they are pretty much all chunky and weirdly proportioned.
The detail is also soft enough to seem sculpted at 28mm scale and then scaled up to 38mm. The local "pressganger" has amazing pro painted armies but that really really relies on emphasizing/adding detail through painting, looking at unpainted minis it's clear to me I couldn't get them to look good at all with basic techniques.
I'd bet those are the earlier models, which admittedly do have softer details and some... interesting design choices. The models had some improvement in the early Wadrhun releases, and in particular have seen significant improvement in quality of detail & assembly since Old Dominion released. Comparing my Kataphractoi to my Force Grown Drones is a night and day difference.
Improvement of quality for PB is quite dramatic over time. Anything released 2022 or later looks pretty fantastic regardless of scale (Hellbringer notable exception, but that is a special case). But back in 2021 I honestly believed they would flop because of how bad many of their early kits were. But the evidence changed and I wasn't so begrudged as to stick to my old stance on the matter.
Now if they could manage the same with their rules writing...
January
Old Dominion: Founders Exclusive, Karyatids, Kanaphores, Mounted Strategos
Spires: Incarnate Sentinels
February
Army Support Packs Wave 4, Objective Markers and Tokens, TLAOK Softcover Rulebook - English 2.0,
City States vs Nords 2 Player Starter Set
City States: Polemarch, Aristarch, Hoplites, Phalangites, Minotaur Thyreans, Minotaur Haspists
Faction Dice
March
City States: Army Support Pack W4
W’adrhŭn: Chieftain, Veterans
Old Dominion: Athanatoi, Varangians
Dweghom: Herald of Magma
Organised Play Paint & Take
April
First Blood Starters - all faction
City States: Mechanist, Promethean, Hephaestian
and more…
Sorcerer Kings is a great concept. However, Hel and Sellswords are mixed with the existing Spire and Dweghom cultures, so they lack freshness. I can't understand why Para Bellum push back the release of the Weaver by two years or more.
vultute wrote: Sorcerer Kings is a great concept. However, Hel and Sellswords are mixed with the existing Spire and Dweghom cultures, so they lack freshness. I can't understand why Para Bellum push back the release of the Weaver by two years or more.
vultute wrote: Sorcerer Kings is a great concept. However, Hel and Sellswords are mixed with the existing Spire and Dweghom cultures, so they lack freshness. I can't understand why Para Bellum push back the release of the Weaver by two years or more.
vultute wrote: Sorcerer Kings is a great concept. However, Hel and Sellswords are mixed with the existing Spire and Dweghom cultures, so they lack freshness. I can't understand why Para Bellum push back the release of the Weaver by two years or more.
vultute wrote: Sorcerer Kings is a great concept. However, Hel and Sellswords are mixed with the existing Spire and Dweghom cultures, so they lack freshness. I can't understand why Para Bellum push back the release of the Weaver by two years or more.
They delayed the release of Weavers because they weren't happy with how the design was going and decided to take a step back so they can re-evaluate a bit. I think I saw it was more that they didn't like how the miniatures themselves were coming along as opposed to the concept of the faction. Enough of a re-design that they wanted to take their time and 'do it right' in their minds, rather than just re-hash what they'd already done and that's not a quick process. Obviously that left them with a blank release slate, hence the 8th Faction voting.
There might be some Weaver units within the Sellsword faction (along with some Quiet stuff, which I'm very much looking forward to) when they appear. Which doesn't seem to be particularly soon the way the votes are heading.
NinthMusketeer wrote: Improvement of quality for PB is quite dramatic over time. Anything released 2022 or later looks pretty fantastic regardless of scale (Hellbringer notable exception, but that is a special case). But back in 2021 I honestly believed they would flop because of how bad many of their early kits were. But the evidence changed and I wasn't so begrudged as to stick to my old stance on the matter.
Now if they could manage the same with their rules writing...
I would disagree with this sentiment, the PB rules and this is someone coming from 40k and AoS, is frankly miles better and outliers are updated/FAQed more often along with being a digital offering. There are more tweaks coming for TLAoK 2.0 coming in Feb. One could argue, that the rules writing in AoS, is subpar and an antiquated approach. More books and rules =/= quality.
NinthMusketeer wrote: Improvement of quality for PB is quite dramatic over time. Anything released 2022 or later looks pretty fantastic regardless of scale (Hellbringer notable exception, but that is a special case). But back in 2021 I honestly believed they would flop because of how bad many of their early kits were. But the evidence changed and I wasn't so begrudged as to stick to my old stance on the matter.
Now if they could manage the same with their rules writing...
I would disagree with this sentiment, the PB rules and this is someone coming from 40k and AoS, is frankly miles better and outliers are updated/FAQed more often along with being a digital offering. There are more tweaks coming for TLAoK 2.0 coming in Feb. One could argue, that the rules writing in AoS, is subpar and an antiquated approach. More books and rules =/= quality.
Buddy, PB still haven't written down the rules for how reinforcement lines are supposed to work, and the game has been out for *years*.
NinthMusketeer wrote: Improvement of quality for PB is quite dramatic over time. Anything released 2022 or later looks pretty fantastic regardless of scale (Hellbringer notable exception, but that is a special case). But back in 2021 I honestly believed they would flop because of how bad many of their early kits were. But the evidence changed and I wasn't so begrudged as to stick to my old stance on the matter.
Now if they could manage the same with their rules writing...
I would disagree with this sentiment, the PB rules and this is someone coming from 40k and AoS, is frankly miles better and outliers are updated/FAQed more often along with being a digital offering. There are more tweaks coming for TLAoK 2.0 coming in Feb. One could argue, that the rules writing in AoS, is subpar and an antiquated approach. More books and rules =/= quality.
Buddy, PB still haven't written down the rules for how reinforcement lines are supposed to work, and the game has been out for *years*.
Hopefully it finally makes it to 2.0.
Not sure that I'd agree, it's described and listed in the rules, which is fairly straightforward; reference to rules:
NinthMusketeer wrote: Improvement of quality for PB is quite dramatic over time. Anything released 2022 or later looks pretty fantastic regardless of scale (Hellbringer notable exception, but that is a special case). But back in 2021 I honestly believed they would flop because of how bad many of their early kits were. But the evidence changed and I wasn't so begrudged as to stick to my old stance on the matter.
Now if they could manage the same with their rules writing...
I would disagree with this sentiment, the PB rules and this is someone coming from 40k and AoS, is frankly miles better and outliers are updated/FAQed more often along with being a digital offering. There are more tweaks coming for TLAoK 2.0 coming in Feb. One could argue, that the rules writing in AoS, is subpar and an antiquated approach. More books and rules =/= quality.
Buddy, PB still haven't written down the rules for how reinforcement lines are supposed to work, and the game has been out for *years*.
Hopefully it finally makes it to 2.0.
Not sure that I'd agree, it's described and listed in the rules, which is fairly straightforward; reference to rules:
Right, but the official way to play it is not RAW.
By RAW, using their example pic. The red line is what is set at the beginning of the turn.
Enemy Regiment X marches forward. The blue line is now the furthest point forward you can come in from the sides, but the red line is still your reinforcement line. There is just an additional restriction that you cannot come in more forward than any enemy regiments, and explicitly you never re-draw your reinforcement line.
HOWEVER! The official way, that has been true since the game came out, as best as I can tell, but never actually written into the rules...
Is that you draw the red line as your reinforcement zone. Regiment X marches forward. You now, by some mechanism not described by any rules, re-draw your reinforcement line to behind regiment A. For no reason stated by rules. Then, if you destroy regiment X, you once again redraw the reinforcement line, inexplicably, to the red line again.
This has been brought up to PB as far back as 1.03's ruleset and yet they have never re-written the rules to follow their official explanation of them. If you play RAW, you are playing incorrectly by official statements by PB.
edit: and to be clear, I have high hopes for TLAOK 2.0 finally clearing this up, based on FB 2.0 being well-written.
FB2 is definitely a step up but certainly has its pitfalls. Scenarios which can be won turn 1 are always a problem, exponentially more so when they can be 'solved' in that way by generic non-skew armies.
As for LAoK... oh boy. Shooting into combat without penalty is a big hangup for one of my local community, the charge movement rules are way too permissive, the regular movement rules too restrictive, the 'Broken' mechanic lacks meaningful impact the majority of the time, while the nature of the Shatter mechanic make it something one solves via listbuilding. I could go on but I'd rather not focus too much on the negative!
And I do want to emphasize that for every head-scratching design choice made by PB there's two reasonable ones and another two brilliant ones. Reinforcement lines may be weird, but the reinforcement mechanic overall is fantastic and I love it to bits.
NinthMusketeer wrote: FB2 is definitely a step up but certainly has its pitfalls. Scenarios which can be won turn 1 are always a problem, exponentially more so when they can be 'solved' in that way by generic non-skew armies.
As for LAoK... oh boy. Shooting into combat without penalty is a big hangup for one of my local community, the charge movement rules are way too permissive, the regular movement rules too restrictive, the 'Broken' mechanic lacks meaningful impact the majority of the time, while the nature of the Shatter mechanic make it something one solves via listbuilding. I could go on but I'd rather not focus too much on the negative!
And I do want to emphasize that for every head-scratching design choice made by PB there's two reasonable ones and another two brilliant ones. Reinforcement lines may be weird, but the reinforcement mechanic overall is fantastic and I love it to bits.
Version 2 of TLAoK is out for the Vanguards and it seems they changed every single issue to mentioned here.
Hel, the very hard-hitting, melee-focused forces of the last Dragon and the dwarves that remained loyal to him, mostly composed of dragon-spawn, hellish dwarves, and ex-nords, headquartered deep beneath a fallen Spire and using a crude imitation of the Spire's biomancy to enhance their troops.
Sorcerer-Kings, an Arabic-Turkish hit-and-run force composed primairly of wizards, elementals, and spirits supporting a core of sturdy human troops.
The Dogs of War, a Black Army of Hungary (and more broadly Central-Eastern Europe) inspired force of elite, durable and hard-hitting, hard-to-shift mercenaries drawn from all races of the Conquest universe, with a core of units unique to the Dogs of War (but very obviously inspired by existing factions) suppported by mercenaries drawn directly from other factions' rosters.
NinthMusketeer wrote: FB2 is definitely a step up but certainly has its pitfalls. Scenarios which can be won turn 1 are always a problem, exponentially more so when they can be 'solved' in that way by generic non-skew armies.
As for LAoK... oh boy. Shooting into combat without penalty is a big hangup for one of my local community, the charge movement rules are way too permissive, the regular movement rules too restrictive, the 'Broken' mechanic lacks meaningful impact the majority of the time, while the nature of the Shatter mechanic make it something one solves via listbuilding. I could go on but I'd rather not focus too much on the negative!
And I do want to emphasize that for every head-scratching design choice made by PB there's two reasonable ones and another two brilliant ones. Reinforcement lines may be weird, but the reinforcement mechanic overall is fantastic and I love it to bits.
Version 2 of TLAoK is out for the Vanguards and it seems they changed every single issue to mentioned here.
I've got no idea about any flying carpets, but here's the Work In Progress renders for promo minis for all three factions, just like they did with Old Dominion, City-States and Weavers back in the day.
The Living World vote has been updated with exceptionally lenghty list of units, their descriptions and lore for each faction! There's a lot of reading to be had!
Dogs of War:
Spoiler:
Field Marshal - Medium Infantry/Cavalry Character. The rank of Field Marshal is reserved for those commanders who have earned Matjas’ trust and respect. Although many Field Marshals rose through the ranks of his own forces, Matjas does not turn away talent, no matter the source. As a result, one can find men from the Hundred Kingdoms, the Nord realms and even some Dweghom among their number, which is always in flux as men rise, fall and retire with alarming regularity.
Mercenary Captain - Medium Infantry/Cavalry Character. By far the most common commanding rank in the Black Army is the Captain, the mercenary epithet goes without saying. Coming from all races and creeds, the only thing the mercenary Captains share is their competence as the fiery crucible of war quickly weans out the weak and incompetent. Each commands a warrior band of like-minded individuals, though these common bonds seldom overcome racial divides. It is thus much more likely to see a human Captain leading human forces than, say Dweghom. And vice versa, but the odd exception has been known to occur.
Sanctioned Sorcerer - Medium Infantry Character. The absence of a formalized school of sorcery in the Polmar Principalities has long been a serious concern of King Matjas. In order to overcome this weak spot in his leadership he has been known to employ … less than scrupulous spell casters who wish to avoid the heavy oversight and control of the Chantry system. Willing to grant them extraordinary privileges so long as they yield results and toe the rather relaxed lines, he has had no small amount of success in recruiting some of the most powerful and unorthodox spell casters to his cause.
Paymaster - Medium Infantry Character. Though few would understand it unless they have lived the life of the mercenary, the entire force revolves not around the commanding officer, but the Paymaster, the most trusted and vetted of Matjas’ subordinates. Elected not for their military capacity but for their intelligence, integrity and commitment to his vision, the Paymaster is Matjas’ ultimate representative in the army: functioning as ambassador, accountant and logistics coordinator. It is the Paymaster in the end who most commonly transcends racial barriers, the reality of mercenary life meaning everybody learns to respect the man with the money. Everybody, from the most arrogant captain to the greenest recruit, in the Black Army ultimately answers to the Paymaster and thus, the King.
Dweghom Warriors - Medium Infantry. While it might surprise many to see Dweghom Clansmen outside of the influence of their Hold and the Mnemancers, it surprises nobody that their most commonly chosen profession is that of the Mercenary. Absent the harsh rules of their oppressive society, many Dweghom slowly discover they are incapable of operating within a nonviolent environment and the lure of battle proves too loud for most. Few argue with the results of this when it provides them with some of the finest heavy infantry on the planet.
Dweghom Drake Slayers - Light Infantry. While the lure of battle might call to some, others are drawn to more… exotic pursuits. Few sane individuals would hunt Drakes for a living, but for an outcast Dweghom this provides the most direct route to the two most common desires: wealth and Aghm. The Chantries, Hemomancers and Spire Merchant Princes all value the remains of a slain drake while even the most hardened Mnemancer will agree that slaying a drake earns the perpetrators Aghm… perhaps enough, in time, to earn his way into society once more. Either way the result is the same: a group of dedicated monster hunters with little to lose and a great deal to gain…
Merchant Prince Mantis Preceptors - Medium Infantry. While the Sovereign may have discontinued his funding of the Preceptor Strand lines, he did not explicitly ban research into them. Thus, a number of adventurous Merchant Princes have resurrected the mothballed program, with varying degrees of success. Currently the most successful design belongs to the outlandish ‘Mantis’ strain, much to the delight of their inventor, the Red Trafficker of Ruin.
Merchant Prince Airship - Medium Monster. Such is the potential margin of profit to be made in the wars that have engulfed the Polmar Principalities that the Red Trafficker of Ruin has even committed a small part of his most valuable commodity: his fleet of airships. Beyond the awe and terror that their appearance can cause, even the smallest of his lighter craft can rain death and destruction upon the hapless foe below; they can even deploy his forces deep behind enemy lines, although he is loath to risk his vessels where they might be harmed. He is much happier committing them to slaughter the hapless foe and disengaging when return fire so much as scratches his precious hulls…
W’adrhun Buccaneers - Light Infantry. Most W’adrhun tend to implode into an orgy of lust, violence and dissolution when removed from the familiar confines of their tribal existence. The sheer variety and opulence of the food, entertainment, and distractions on offer are more than enough to gently reduce these proud warriors into the dissolute, drunken louts that have slowly begun appearing in human cities. Buccaneers are just those lucky few who have been rescued by their more worldly peers and successfully turned this bacchanalian explosion into a stable mercenary career…
W’adrhun Dread Naught - Heavy Monster. There is little that can be said about the dreadful magnificence and twisted genius for war needed to look upon one of the most dangerous creatures in creation, a shipwreck and a band of rowdy degenerates and strike upon an idea so outrageous, so audacious that the enemy will struggle to understand, let alone counter on the field of battle…
City States Mercenary Maniple - Medium Infantry. Many City States supplement their income by forming and hiring out maniples of professional soldiers to their strategic allies. Some, in particular the grim city of Acheron, are even less careful of who they hire their troops out to. While few will argue when offered a chance to hire such competent warriors, a select few scholars and political thinkers are trying to uncover the motivation behind this suspicious behaviour.
Geronese Arbalesters - Medium Infantry. For years now the Hundred Kingdoms have employed huge numbers of mercenary crossbowmen in their forces but the cream of the crop, the Geronese Arbaletierri, have signed a decades long exclusive contract with the Black Army for an absolutely eye watering sum of money. Safely ensconced behind their towering pavise shields, these masterful marksmen have honed the process of aiming, shooting and reloading their massive crossbows to an art form unmatched on the continent.
Normen Housecarls - Medium Infantry. Svarthgalm’s bloody invasion of the Hundred Kingdoms was both a resounding failure and unprecedented success. While the invasion was ultimately lost and the Nords lost one of their last remaining Einherjar, the northern coasts of the Hundred Kingdoms were so ravaged by war that countless Nord families were able to migrate unmolested. Now, centuries after the event, these self-sufficient communities have thrived and are starting to integrate themselves into society. Some serve as landing points for further invasions, others have pledged allegiance to the slowly rebuilding Hundred Kingdoms. A few have chosen a riskier but more rewarding stance: the road of the mercenary, where their hard-earned skills ensure there is always demand for them.
Cossar Hetmen - Light Cavalry. Though nominally vassals of the Russ, only the most deluded of Boyars would hope to control the Cossar population of the Eastern Steppes. The grinding war and growing instability in the Polmar Principalities have acted like a beacon to these peerless light cavalry warriors. They see in its shattered strongholds and burnt-out fields a chance to increase their wealth and expand their holdings at their neighbours expense while getting paid by him to do so.
Weaver Crystal Knights - Heavy Brute Cavalry. Many wondered at the harrowing beauty of King Matjas’ favourite concubine, but only a few could have imagined the truth. After the death of his wife, Matjas saw little benefit in continuing the charade and revealed Verbena Talea to be an Exile of the Weaver Courts, a princess of some sort among that alien race. The cries of outrage were quickly stilled when she committed her personal retinue of over a hundred Crystal Knights to his protection and cause. These eerie warriors loom over even the tallest knight, riding otherworldly steeds no human could hope to master. Their hardened amber armour chips and cracks with each blow, sapping it of power behind it only to heals and repairs within minutes, rendering its wearer almost impervious to all but the most powerful of blows.
City Guard - Light Infantry. Matjas Hunyadi famously exempted the peasantry from the onerous taxes and levies they had traditionally been subject to. In their place he levied a significant tax on each city and used it to arm, train and reward a City Guard capable of upholding the law during peacetime and defending the city during war time. Originally reviled as a blatant power grab over the traditionally independent cities, dissenters were slowly silenced when the degree of professionalism and impartiality these centrally funded guards retained. Ensuring that the City Guard was well trained, led and equipped by taxes that he levied, rather than the local city council, Matjas ultimately provided himself with an able fighting force while severely undermining the power of those same self-serving Councils.
Black Legionnaire - Medium Infantry. Relentless drill and savage discipline have allowed Matjas to pioneer mixed formations in his order of battle. Half the force is armed with crossbows (the regular variety, unlike the heavy arbalests of the Geronese) while the other half is armed with pikes. Relentless training and drill have allowed these formations to function as a single unit: the crossbowmen unleashing volley after volley into the advancing foe, only to be surrounded by a sharp hedge of pikes at a moments notice should enemy cavalry threaten the formation. While other kingdoms have witnessed his innovative tactics sought to replicate them, they lack the funding and professional mindset required to ensure the full time employment of his mercenary core that is needed to drill the troops to this level.
Hedge Knights - Medium Cavalry. More so than any kingdom, save perhaps those of Galania and Galania-Trans-Sinia, Matjas has championed the establishment of tourneys and jousting competitions with healthy subsidised victors’ prizes all year round. Originally considered one of odd fixations and ignored for it was no doubt a curious move in a mountainous country without a chivalric tradition, the genius of this manoeuvre became evident when a few years after its establishment as countless displaced and unlanded knights from the Hundred Kingdoms descended on his lands, providing him with a deep pool of talented heavy horsemen to incorporate into his army.
Targovian Battle Thralls - Medium Infantry. When blood is a resource as valuable as silver, Dannonian Battle Thralls are the physical remains of those individuals who simply went into too much debt for their finances and body to handle. Inured to pain, utterly fearless and inhumanly strong, they would make the perfect soldier if there were any will in their empty husks. Despite the notorious consequences of excessively draining one’s body of anima and blood, the Haemomancers of Targovia have found human greed and folly to be a never ending source of recruits. Wise and world weary from his youthful adventures, Matjas has shown the depth of his conviction and the lengths to which he is ready to go by treating with the Haemomancers of Targovia for a force of a thousand Battle Thralls. While the rest of the world decries them as monsters and tyrants, Matjas found them to be fair, if ruthless, rulers.
Winged Hussars - Medium Cavalry. Few forces have developed and truly earned the towering reputation of the Winged Hussars of the Polmar Principalities. Originally poorly led bands of uncoordinated lordlings willing to risk death for a fleeting chance at wealth and glory, the crucible of war forged these reckless youths into one of the most formidable forces in the world. Such is the power of their reputation that they have recently taken to leaning into it, covering their armor and weapons in the bones of the fallen, or styling their armour after the infamous heraldry of the Impaler. Entire enemy formations have shattered and run at the mere sight of these terrifying apparitions bearing down on them.
Sorcerer Kings:
Spoiler:
Khan - Medium Cavalry Character. A Khan is a tribal leader. Often appointed by their predecessor ensuring some dynastic influence exists, Khans must be confirmed by the Noyan of his tribe, meaning that while all Khans must excel in warfare, for that is the bread and butter of life among the great steppes of Mahdaar, a certain level of cunning and diplomacy is needed as well.
Monghal Warrior - Light Cavalry. Tempered in the endless conflicts and raids on the endless steppes of Mahdaar, Monghal Warriors equipment and discipline have been tempered and refined by generations of combat. Equally proficient with the bow and the lance, Monghal Warriors nonetheless favor the bow above all. The real secret behind their success, however, is the discipline and militarized tribal culture they have been steeped in. Looking upon the Monghal Warrior, one might see barbarism and a lack of sophistication. They would not live to make the same mistake twice.
Noyan Warrior - Medium Cavalry. While Monghal Warriors have been known to shatter entire enemy armies with their withering hails of arrows, the Noyan nobility of the tribes are responsible for delivering the killing blow upon the enemies’ center. Eschewing the light arms and armor of the lighter troops, Noyan warriors bear lances upon armored horses, their almost preternatural bond with their mounts allowing them to launch devastating attacks wherever the Monghal Warriors have created an opportunity.
Lodge of the Ox - Heavy Brute Cavalry. Once confined to the frozen heights of the Atlayan Mountains, the warrior Lodge of the Ox broke its centuries of isolationism to ride beneath the banner of the Clan of One. Heavily armored and mounted on their sturdy musk oxen, their deadly skill with the ritual horn tipped lances are almost an afterthought. Unlike horses, these totem bonded oxen are more than willing to hurl themselves into a tightly packed formation at the behest of their master, using their bulk and thunderous impact to shatter even the most formidable formation. Were it no for their modest speed and range, they would dominate the battlefield.
Lodge of the Tiger - Medium Brute Cavalry. Such is the terrifying reputation this warrior lodge has earned upon countless battlefields that they have become closely associated with the Asura of legend, branded as devil worshipers and man eaters. Nothing could be further from the truth, for this ascetic lodge devotes itself to the mastery of their weapon and their mount to the exclusion of all else, marching to battle only under the command of their enigmatic gurus.
Lodge of the Wolf -Light Brute Cavalry. The lodge of the wolf is perhaps the most well known and trusted of the sacred warrior lodges. Their adherents roam the entire steppe, claiming no land or herd for themselves but what their totem mounts must hunt to survive, but acknowledging no suzerainty or sovereign among mortal leaders. Closest in warrior ethos to the Tribes, they often ride to their aid even when not requested, falling upon their foe’s rear and nipping at his sides with a skill and ferocity even hardened Monghal Warriors envy.
Maharajá - Heavy Infantry Character. Maharajas are the Elemental Court appointed rulers of the Enclaves. Selected from among the Raj, they are also inducted into the lesser secrets of the Magi, being granted their own bonds, and elevating them above the mortals that they rule. They are nonetheless expected to rule evenly and fairly, their every action watched for a lack of virtue or skill by their enemies among the Raj who covet their position and power.
Rajá - Medium Infantry/Cavalry Character. The Raja are the true wielders of temporal power in the Enclaves. While the Maharaja is bogged in dealing with matters of divine right and the Elemental courts it is the Raja who rule the day to day bustle of the cities and who are its front line of defense. Armed, trained and equipped to the best of their vast wealth and influence, they are a powerful force on the field, galvanizing their troops and shoring up the lines wherever it is needed.
Janaluk Infantry - Medium Infantry. Originaly slave-soldiers bound to fight for the Sorcerer Kings, the Janluk have long since surpassed their humble origins. They are now amongst the most influential castes in the rigidly regimented society of the Enclaves due to their role in protecting the vulnerable Magi when they take to the field. Heavily armed but relatively lightly armored, these soldier elites eschew the weight of full plate armor, depending instead on ferocious discipline and unquenchable morale to carry the day.
Ghorab Levies - Light Infantry. While the Janluk bear the brunt of the duty in defending the Enclaves and their interests, it is ultimately the Ghorab Levies that form the bulk of the Enclaves forces, even if they only represent a fraction of its combat power. Well-armed and equipped, the Ghorab can be counted on to acquit themselves well on the field of battle, even without special training.
Rajahi Cavalry - Heavy Cavalry. The Rajahi are the only force, aside from the Gajahdar, who can match the ferocity of the Tribes in open combat. While perhaps lacking the sheer savagery and speed of their traditional opponents, the impeccable breeding of their steeds, coupled with the priceless heirloom armor they don, make these cavalrymen nigh impervious to harm and mobile enough to respond where needs dictate.
Gajahdar - Heavy Monster. While elephants only survived the cataclysm of the Fall due to a small herd of them being part of one of the menageries of Capitas that was saved in the original exodus, the animals were so critical in the rebuilding and defense efforts of the Enclaves that they have come to hold a central position in both the civic and military life of the Enclaves. Those who ride these massive beasts, for centuries of careful breeding have produced titans amongst the placid pachyderms, are termed Gajadhars (or Mahouts depending of the Enclave in question) and hold positions of tremendous prestige in their society, so critical is their role in battle. Caparisoned in the finest silks and tempered steel, these behemoths have been known to shatter Monghal charges and trample entire battle lines into the dust.
Dhanurveda Archers - Medium Infantry. Perhaps no other society exalts the role of the bow in combat as do the realms of the Sorcerer Kings. Entire tracts of verse and poetry in their most sacred texts have been devoted to the perfection and mastery of the bow, for this was the main manner in which the original refugees were able to fend for themselves while the Sorcerer Kings reshaped the very earth to accommodate them. Today a handful among the Raj and Jamluk caste dedicate themselves exclusively to the art of the bow, aiming to become like the weapons saints of old, raining death on their foes with unerring volleys of blazing arrows.
Samrat - Medium Infantry/Brute Character. The death of the last Sorcerer King of Fire at the hands of the Clan of One shattered a social order that had existed more or less unchanged since the Fall. The awakening of the true Sorcerer Kings changed both the orders and the land itself. One of the most consequential of these changes was the appointment of a Samrat, an Emperor, who would rule all the lands with the blessings of the four Sorcerer Kings, unifying the disparate lands of the Sorcerer Kings into a cohesive force for the first time in centuries.
High Magos - Medium Infantry Character. In many ways, some would argue most, the Magi are the beating heart of the Elemental Courts, and thus the realm of the Sorcerer Kings. Gifted beyond mortal limits by their bond to an elemental partner, the magic that these individuals wield beggars any but the most puissant of Dweghom sorcerers. Their presence on the battlefield is needed to keep the unruly, malicious, and just plain curious Elementals in check even as they blast enemy forces to smithereens while empowering allied formations.
Efreet - Medium Brute. Efreet are among the most fractious and demanding of Elemental spirits awakened by the Sorcerer Kings. While the Magi are still trying to understand how the Efreet and other greater spirits could evolve such complex social structures so quickly after their awakening, they have nonetheless resigned themselves to dealing with the realities of these complex fire spirits. Their lust for chaos and mischief is nowhere so evident as when they soar across the battlefield, sowing chaos and confusion among the enemy troops with a barrage of elemental strikes and mirages, before descending to finish off the weakened foe with their incandescent scimitars.
Djinn - Medium Monster. Djinn are the greatest Elemental spirit that can still manifest a corporeal form. Much like efreet, but even more pronounced, their physical form can barely contain their latent power. It is little surprise that these aloof creatures have so quickly spawned legends around their ability to grant wishes, so great is their power. When they can be cajoled to descend upon the field of battle it is seldom for a long time, their attention invariably wandering as they lay waste to the enemy forces, almost as an afterthought.
Gholas - Medium Infantry. Although by far the weakest of the Elemental spirits brought forth in battle, Ghols nonetheless are the ones that trouble the Magi the most. The dark shades burn with the weight of their sins, their souls or psyche somehow having imprinted itself on the elemental realm, corrupting that once pristine realm with their darkness. The very idea of deploying these beings in battle was first seen as an easy way to contain their spread, for alone amongst the elemental spirits they seem eager, almost gleeful to take mortal form and spread chaos and ruin before they are put down.
Rakshasa - Heavy Monster. Amongst the Deva, the dark spirits that have bedeviled mankind since time immemorial, the Rakshasa bear the dubious distinction of being the greatest spirits that can yet be bound. The rituals to do so are hellishly complex and require frightful mastery of the arts. One of the easiest ways to reduce the complexity of these rituals is to include exceptions or loopholes that allow the Rakshasa to vent its dark desires… The battlefield is often seen as the best place to let these dark spirits vent decades or centuries of accumulated spite.
Maharathi Sorcerers Saints - Heavy Brute Cavalry. Amongst the Magi there exist an order of warrior sorcerers dedicated to the elimination of evil in its most primordial forms. Focusing only on a narrow application of their sorcerous powers and devoting the rest of their time to martial pursuits, the Maharathi Sorcerer Saints represent the pinnacle of martial prowess in the Elemental Courts dedicated to hunting down the greatest dangers. Whether that be a corrupted Magos, an errant Deva or some dark entity of Primordial Destruction, the Maharathi Sorcerers are always at the forefront of the conflict, shielding mankind with their deadly skill and selfless sacrifice.
Hel:
Spoiler:
Örm-Temer Brood Lord - Heavy Brute Character. Born along all other Örm-Temer in a spawning, Broodlords quickly establish their dominance over their entire spawning, leading to them almost invariably belonging to the massive Örm-Strekr subspecies. Towering almost a meter above the tallest human, Örm-Temer Broodlords are then pulled out of their spawning and broken into service, either through the cruel artifice of the Dwarves, or, in rare cases that warrant it, by exposure to Nidhoggs overwhelming presence.
Örm-Jord - Heavy Infantry: Massive Örm-Temer whose elemental predisposition allows for basic training. Capable of wielding great weapons and shields, they are a terrifying force on the field, their long incubation period thankfully keeps their numbers low.
Örm-Slugnir - Light Infantry: Slight Örm-Temer with vestigial wings and powerful legs that allow them to make long gliding leaps. Needle sharp fangs and talons make them a dangerous foe, more than capable of swarming superior opponents and bringing them down. High rate of attrition due to bestial nature compensates for fastest incubation period.
Örm-Hyr - Medium Infantry: Powerful Örm-Temer with strong backs and vestigial wings too weak to bear any of their body weight. Often lost in the countless fights between each other. Headstrong and aggressive, they can wield weapons, but tend to eschew armor as it weighs them down and limits their greatest weapon: speed. High fratricidal rate keeps their numbers low, thankfully.
Örm-Logr - Medium Infantry: Bestial and cunning, these are the rarest of the Örm-Temer, with the longest gestation period. Patient ambush hunters, their bodies develop powerful toxin glands and their natural cunning makes them terrifying hunters. Seldom use any but the lightest of armors, not because they are incapable of it, but because it encumbers them. The poison in their talons and maw make almost all weapons redundant. Numbers are limited by low spawn rate, but their inherent cunning ensures a higher survival rate.
Örm-Strekr - Heavy Brutes. Rarest of Örm-Temer subspecies, these towering juggernauts bear the closest resemblance to their draconic ancestor. Powerful, swift and relentless they are a nightmare to behold on the battlefield. Would be far more valuable as Brood Lords, but their strong hierarchical nature means that once a spawning establishes a Brood Lord, all remaining Örm-Strekr invariably submit to his rule, becoming his protectors and losing any initiative or ambition they might have displayed.
Draumunir Gothi - Medium Infantry Characters. Once the leaders of a prestigious cult centered around the exploration of Yggdrasil and the recovery of slumbering einherjar, centuries of failure left these misguided cultists with little power or influence. Their influence now waxes again with the promise of power purchased by Hela’s elixirs. Bolstered by the faith of their followers and Hel’s dangerous gifts, these dark priests stand poised to unleash a flood of violence upon the world at the behest of their masters.
Draugr - Medium Infantry. A growing number of Nord youths are eschewing the traditional paths offered by their tribes to pursue the path the Draumunir have offered them. Those who fail to impress in the fighting circles and fall find themselves waking up in the spawning vats of Yggdrasil, their once mortal wounds stanched and bodies strengthened by the brutal but effective methods of Hela and the dwarves. The trauma of this process invariably shatters their waking mind, leaving them as little more than mindless husks, suitable only for destruction on the battlefield.
Hraerjar - Medium Infantry. Those who manage to impress the Draumunir are granted their wish and enhanced far beyond their mortal limits by the dark elixirs supplied by Hela and clad in arms and armor forged by the last dwarves… What they are not told is the price of this transformation, but most are too blinded by the promise of power and glory until it is too late.
Einherjar - Medium Monsters. From time to time a Hraejar candidate will stand out in the fighting rings, more often than not due to the higher purity of Einherjar blood within his veins. These unlucky souls are taken deep within the bowels of Yggdrasil where Hela attempts to recreate the greatest success of the old gods, with universally tragic results. While these creatures may have once been human, their broken forms bear only a passing resemblance to their once noble forms once the dwarves are done with their… enhancements.
Draudrekkir - Heavy Brute Cavalry. The greatest fighters among the Draumunir, often raised from those Hraejar who retained their will, are given a rare gift by their hidden masters: Young drakes are pulled from their pods and addled by Hela’s noxious concoctions, forcing them to imprint on their new masters. Riding these fearsome mounts, these Draudrekkir are a true terror on the battlefield, combining the savagery of the drake with the ruthless cunning of a fallen priest.
Fafnir/Otr/Regin - Heavy/Light /Medium Brute. Though far too paranoid and cunning to ever expose themselves to the dangers of combat, the last dwarves have nonetheless figured out how to project their presence without risk to their bodies. Fafnir does so by melting a portion of his hoard and casting his consciousness into this ego infused medium creating a form of wealth elemental whose form changes with the whim of its creator. Otr simply elects one of his clones, and sends him forth while Regin places infused memory crystals into the most fiendishly complex and powerful Automata he can craft, creating a proxy version of himself. Given the long lives and madness of these individuals, each of these Imagos is different from each other, allowing a player to customize them to depict their creators’ whims and mental state at that time only.
Magma Golem - Heavy Brute. Fafnir, as a dwarf, does not possess the limitations of his Dweghom opponents: his control over his Gift is absolute, allowing him the creation of complex spell patterns only a Steel shaper could hope to emulate, should they ever care. When the need is dire enough, Nidhogg can lend Fafnir a portion of his own elemental might, allowing him to bind these destructive brutes in a permanent form and cast them upon a battlefield to wreak havoc amongst the foe.
Low Form Automata - Heavy Brutes. Regin retains the craft he was taught at the claws of his creators: the manufacture of true autonomous machinery. Low form automata are simple with a single element dominating in their construction, this is often clay or iron. A fiendishly complex spell matrix is inscribed into each part and a tiny amount of primordial power is fed to it, allowing it to respond to simple commands and perform repetitive tasks, ideal for a powerful frontline fighter who knows no fear or fatigue.
High Form Automata - Medium Brutes. Unlike the low form automata, the higher form automata include all four elements in their construction and require fiendishly complex spell matrices and mechanical components to balance out the elements that provide their motive force. Even if one were to manage these mind-numbingly complex feats of magical engineering, they would still fall short for at the heart of each of these automata there lies a tiny mote of primordial essence. Needless to say, upon the battlefield it is those automata with motes of Destruction that dominate.
Primordial Drake - Heavy Monster Character. While no true dragon has been born in Ea for millennia, the presence of a conscious Elder Dragons presents opportunities and possibilities undreamt of. Much like a mating pair of dragons imparted a small portion of their essence into their children to quicken the egg into a full dragon, Nidhogg and Hela have discovered a manner to infuse the most powerful and robust of drakes with some of Nidhoggs blood and primordial essence. While not enough to trigger the transformation into a true dragon, a measure of sentience is quickened along with a surfeit of power. A conscious Drake empowered by Nidhoggs blood is enough to chill the heart of almost any foe. More so when he carries a modicum of his forefathers authority, allowing him to lead his lesser kin to battle.
Wyvern - Medium Monster. Perhaps the most notorious of Drakes, Wyverns remain a rare sight within most realms. This is simply a result of their dull and vicious nature meaning when a mating pair first meets, it is even odds whether they will kill each other or produce a clutch. Under the baleful influence of a primordial master, they can be controlled long enough to perform the required duties, on the battlefield and off it. Winged, but lacking the forearms of their more evolved cousins, Wyverns are nonetheless a formidable foe on the field due to their power of flight and poison stinger.
Wurm - Heavy Monster. Wurms are amongst the most numerous but least common drakes in Ea. This is simply because their limited brains and voracious appetite discourage them from any activity that is not the mindless consumption of earth and dirt with its attendant biomass. When these ravenous monsters can be coaxed to the surface, however, the destruction they can wreak before their hunger drives them below ground once more is unfathomable.
Lumbering Drake - Heavy Monster: The most common of Drake subtypes, this is not due to their high number, but merely because all land-born quadruped drakes are lumped into this category. Terrifying opponents, these powerful predators are nonetheless hunted for their valuable hides, powerful blood or simply prestige or Aghm. Properly guided by a malicious mind, these evolve from a dangerous foe into a battlefield nightmare none wish to face.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh, and some new artwork!
warboss wrote: Those all look really nice! I'm getting strong Hell Boy 2 vibes from that first one.
Helboy you mean, right?
Either way, initially I voted for SK but the more we saw, the more I'm drawn towards Hel. The concepts of remnants of seemingly long-defeated factions (The last Dragon and the last Nord Goddess) banding together in the ruins of a spire and slowly creating an army from what they have to work with is really appealing to me, especially with how cool the lore is and how nice the art looks.
I want them all.... I didn't really care about the Dogs of War until you said Black Army of Hungary, and then you doubled down on it with Winged Hussars and now I'm sold.
DoW were the least exciting at the start but seem to have some of the coolest sketches. Snapping turtle boat? As long as it doesn't end up sleeping with the fish gnomes.
I've been staying away from Conquest (barring a few Dwegholm) mostly due to scale and design...but those Sorcerer Kings will probably draw me in fully.
OD looks great as always, those Dinosorcs I'll need to see in person. Getting a 'bad angle photo' vibe.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Finally got around to going through the all the 2nd ed rules rather than just the change highlights, very happy with the new edition. A TON of cleaned up wording, tbf partly a measure of how bad it was before but still. Infantry going to by-stand basis streamlines things quite a bit, as does having various details formally clarified like command stands etc. Really like the changes to shooting & magic (still shoot into combat without penalty but eh, can't win em all).
Perhaps the biggest highlight for me is how much the draw events and special rules have been cleaned up. Much more clear, precise wording and almost all of the bloated redundancies cleared out. This is definitely the quality of life update I've been looking for for a long time.
I finally saw Conquest figs in person last week and man are they big! The infantry height wise was almost as tall as oldhammer metal ogryn (though obviously not as bulky) and this is exacerbated by the cavalry figs. I saw the undead roman style faction and the detail was great as were the asthetics. But the size! I don't think I could use them with anything else I have for fantasy unfortunately.
warboss wrote: How many different types of giants exist so far in the Conquest world?
Currently I think we're on 5? With actual models anyway. I'm not 100% sure on what the two City State Titans actually are in lore terms (someone with an updated version of the Companion may have a better idea) but it's possible they're constructs or the vessels for primordial power that the CS founders were going for. The Jotnar are the actual giants and they're more three different flavours of the same base race that have evolved due to their climates.
Starting this Wednesday 3/22 at Adepticon, we will be offering attendees the first shot at our new Conquest First Blood scenario pack, The Angry Chicken! This whimsical, yet evil, 2 figure scenario for First Blood play is pure fun. The Angry Chicken started as a meme from the community based on the Apex Predator.... and now behold the chickens are creating a fast paced alternative play scenario for Conquest First Blood fans everywhere. These are a sincere gesture of thanks for the thousands of community members who trek out to Cons to see us, demo a game and have a good time!
Supplies are limited at each Con to what we can make and bring.... and they are "first come first served". They will be only available for select 2023 Cons. See us first at booth 510 at Adepticon! After that you can count on some being available for BrisCon in April in Brisbane, Aus... where else will they show up?
Looks fun! PB is getting on the Con exclusive train...
Surprised it's not Murder Fish Gnomes. Guess they really are annoyed at how strongly that got picked up as a meme.
With the new starter set not being available til who knows when, is the newer First Blood worth picking up? It doesn’t seem to be quite as good value for money and I’ll get laughed at by my mates for buying another starter set no ones want to play BUT the larger minis and non-typical designs look great and might be easier on my poor old eyes!
OMG, that sauropod... While I love the designs, conquest is just too large a scale for me to get into - but that dinosaur would be useful at just about any of the preferred mini scales.
highlord tamburlaine wrote: I swear I just saw berserker type dudes most likely for the Nords somewhere online wearing furs and skulls... and now I don't know where I saw that.
warboss wrote: Cool! I'm glad they're getting dinosaurs. I was afraid they'd get a giant or two instead and I've have to post an Oprah meme.
I don't get that take to be honest. There's 7 factions currently and a grand total of 2 of them have giants; both of them quite appropriate for the mythologies they're loosely based around.
warboss wrote: Cool! I'm glad they're getting dinosaurs. I was afraid they'd get a giant or two instead and I've have to post an Oprah meme.
I don't get that take to be honest. There's 7 factions currently and a grand total of 2 of them have giants; both of them quite appropriate for the mythologies they're loosely based around.
Well, I'd start by restating the hopefully obvious in that it's a light hearted joke. Usually a giant is a singular model (both in the line and usually the army) that is a centerpiece of a force and the uniqueness of something is proportional to its rarity like in Oldhammer (I don't follow Sigmar so can't say there). With five (?) different giants across four kits and two factions so far, both are somewhat lessened despite the mostly excellent (except the Jotunn IMO) sculpts. I do think making this latest pair a dual kit is a step in the right direction though.
warboss wrote: Cool! I'm glad they're getting dinosaurs. I was afraid they'd get a giant or two instead and I've have to post an Oprah meme.
I don't get that take to be honest. There's 7 factions currently and a grand total of 2 of them have giants; both of them quite appropriate for the mythologies they're loosely based around.
Well, I'd start by restating the hopefully obvious in that it's a light hearted joke. Usually a giant is a singular model (both in the line and usually the army) that is a centerpiece of a force and the uniqueness of something is proportional to its rarity like in Oldhammer (I don't follow Sigmar so can't say there). With five (?) different giants across four kits and two factions so far, both are somewhat lessened despite the mostly excellent (except the Jotunn IMO) sculpts. I do think making this latest pair a dual kit is a step in the right direction though.
I got that it was a light-hearted joke but (at the risk of attempting to needlessly deconstruct humour and just generally be pedantic about a most-definitely not serious thing...) for the Oprah meme to be applicable then 'everyone' (or at least, 'most', or indeed 'many') of the factions, as opposed to a minority, would indeed have to 'get a giant' otherwise it just doesn't work as a point of mirth. Yes I'm fun at parties.
I'd also say that they're very much proportional to their rarity in terms of how often they actually see table time (relative to Oldhammer or Middlehammer), these just have multiple options; you're still probably only likely to see one at a time in any given army. I for one am not going to grumble at there being options in that fairly narrow window.
As a mild tangent, I think the Sea-Giant also only exists because one of the sculptors decided they wanted to make one and it was pretty enough the devs wrote rules rather than it always being planned as part of the Nord roster.
Sea Jotnar has been part of the Nord roster for a very, very long time. The sculptor added details that made the dev team change the rules, but it existed long before a sculptor was ever involved.
Last year, Para Bellum seemed to have lost momentum due to the high price of resin, so I am relieved that Para Bellum's environment seemed to have improved.
Agema and Thorakites are scheduled to be released in May, but are not shown in any of the videos about this catalog. So, does this catalog introduce products that will be released after June?
Dynastic Alliances will now be a baseline Army Rule for the 100K. Adaptability to Adversity now only has you choosing between Veterans and Relentless Drills. Hundred Kingdoms is now the faction with two Warlords.
[Designer’s Note]: A lot of scenarios have been adjusted and no longer give points for killing a Warlord.
Not sure how much that really helps the struggling Hundred Kingdoms but it's a nice thing, and I'm sure they'll have more changes to individual units.
All I can say is I've always played Tempered Dwegholm and since the latest update I have been absolutely steamrolling my opponents with little effort. People I used to have challenging matchups with before. I don't even feel like my skills are being used because I just need to show up and have a pulse then my murder blocks kill everything.
NinthMusketeer wrote: All I can say is I've always played Tempered Dwegholm and since the latest update I have been absolutely steamrolling my opponents with little effort. People I used to have challenging matchups with before. I don't even feel like my skills are being used because I just need to show up and have a pulse then my murder blocks kill everything.
Dweghom barely made it to the top 5 in the last 3 Tournaments.
NinthMusketeer wrote: All I can say is I've always played Tempered Dwegholm and since the latest update I have been absolutely steamrolling my opponents with little effort. People I used to have challenging matchups with before. I don't even feel like my skills are being used because I just need to show up and have a pulse then my murder blocks kill everything.
Dweghom barely made it to the top 5 in the last 3 Tournaments.
This is pretty untrue.
Adepticon there were 2 in the top 5. They won an 8 man at my local. They won a 1500 event in Germany. 4th at a 2k event in Germany. What do you consider the last 3 tournaments? These are the ones listed as rated on Longshanks which is what people are pushing to be used so stats like this can be gathered.
Also, there's the general community experience which matches up with what Ninth is saying.
The game is doomed to fail if the ego of the rules writer and "vanguard reps" doesn't deflate fast enough.
What?
When rules questions are brought up, they provide no explanation on how they come to their conclusion, they just state "it is this way because I say it is." When pressed to provide justification because their ruling is inconsistent with how they rule similar situations in the past, they demean the person asking and tell them to "lower their tone."
Just this week someone asked for clarification on the rule bloodlust and the vanguards tell them how it works in game, but when asked how they justify that ruling since it directly contradicts a previous ruling on bloodlust, they get told "just play it like that."
For context on the bloodlust question:
Spoiler:
Bloodlust: When a Regiment with this Special Rule is currently on the battlefield and takes an Action, if the Regiment is not in contact with an Enemy Regiment, roll a D6. If the result is less than or equal to the highest Resolve characteristic in the Regiment, you may perform an Action as normal. If the result is higher, you must perform a Charge Action against the closest Enemy Regiment in Line of Sight and within the Regiment’s maximum Charge Distance.
If there is no eligible Target to Charge, you must perform a March Action directly toward the closest Enemy Regiment in Line of Sight. A Regiment must always March its maximum March distance when forced to move as a result of this Special Rule. This Special Rule allows a Regiment to Charge a Target even in the Round in which it arrived on the Battlefield from Reinforcements.
The current accepted ruling is that the red section of the second paragraph does not care about the outcome of the resolve roll established in the first paragraph. But the green section of the second paragraph is beholden to the outcome of the resolve roll established in the first.
It was asked why one part cares about the outcome and the other part does not, and they just say "play it that way." very dismissive.
I will add my 2 cents that I've also had poor interactions with PB staff in the past (over a year ago now). Not going to go into more detail than that. I'd hoped they had gotten better by now.
With the caveat that I am not a rules guy, how do they arrive at the conclusion the Red section is not dependent on a roll result when the entire rest of the paragraph, including the opening sentence, is dependent? That’s really counterintuitive.
The game is doomed to fail if the ego of the rules writer and "vanguard reps" doesn't deflate fast enough.
What?
When rules questions are brought up, they provide no explanation on how they come to their conclusion, they just state "it is this way because I say it is." When pressed to provide justification because their ruling is inconsistent with how they rule similar situations in the past, they demean the person asking and tell them to "lower their tone."
Just this week someone asked for clarification on the rule bloodlust and the vanguards tell them how it works in game, but when asked how they justify that ruling since it directly contradicts a previous ruling on bloodlust, they get told "just play it like that."
For context on the bloodlust question:
Spoiler:
Bloodlust: When a Regiment with this Special Rule is currently on the battlefield and takes an Action, if the Regiment is not in contact with an Enemy Regiment, roll a D6. If the result is less than or equal to the highest Resolve characteristic in the Regiment, you may perform an Action as normal. If the result is higher, you must perform a Charge Action against the closest Enemy Regiment in Line of Sight and within the Regiment’s maximum Charge Distance.
If there is no eligible Target to Charge, you must perform a March Action directly toward the closest Enemy Regiment in Line of Sight. A Regiment must always March its maximum March distance when forced to move as a result of this Special Rule. This Special Rule allows a Regiment to Charge a Target even in the Round in which it arrived on the Battlefield from Reinforcements.
The current accepted ruling is that the red section of the second paragraph does not care about the outcome of the resolve roll established in the first paragraph. But the green section of the second paragraph is beholden to the outcome of the resolve roll established in the first.
It was asked why one part cares about the outcome and the other part does not, and they just say "play it that way." very dismissive.
Can't see why they should justify how rules are written, thus opening an endless debate about how rules should be written.
The game is doomed to fail if the ego of the rules writer and "vanguard reps" doesn't deflate fast enough.
What?
Ego at its finest.
This may sound harsh, but the justification given is pretty telling. Bloodlust does two things: a) it forces morale tests and b) it allows to charge the turn you enter.
The red part is independent from the result of this dice roll because it has nothing to do with it. The green part depends on the result *because it is the consequence of failure*.
It is fairly clear and going into this much detail is frankly a hassle that plenty of people will avoid. Nothing malicious nor ego driven.
Edit: At most, you can make a very fair case about them needing to break the paragraph.
The game is doomed to fail if the ego of the rules writer and "vanguard reps" doesn't deflate fast enough.
What?
Ego at its finest.
This may sound harsh, but the justification given is pretty telling. Bloodlust does two things: a) it forces morale tests and b) it allows to charge the turn you enter.
The red part is independent from the result of this dice roll because it has nothing to do with it. The green part depends on the result *because it is the consequence of failure*.
It is fairly clear and going into this much detail is frankly a hassle that plenty of people will avoid. Nothing malicious nor ego driven.
Edit: At most, you can make a very fair case about them needing to break the paragraph.
To be clear, the ego is when the vanguards and staff dismiss any pushback with insults and heavy handed discord moderation, instead of rationalizing the decisions.
For someone browsing Salute unaware of what this is all about, they had games and a huge poster saying "conquest watever subtitle" and "Conquest whatever's subtitle" 2 games 1 company... something like that
Looking at the tables and dispersed miniatures displays I was extremely confused of what was actually on offer. Some miniatures looked ok others not so good.
What im saying is, it was one of those stands/tables that assume you already know what they are talking about, which I dont so I turned away and moved into something else.
The game is doomed to fail if the ego of the rules writer and "vanguard reps" doesn't deflate fast enough.
What?
Ego at its finest.
This may sound harsh, but the justification given is pretty telling. Bloodlust does two things: a) it forces morale tests and b) it allows to charge the turn you enter.
The red part is independent from the result of this dice roll because it has nothing to do with it. The green part depends on the result *because it is the consequence of failure*.
It is fairly clear and going into this much detail is frankly a hassle that plenty of people will avoid. Nothing malicious nor ego driven.
Edit: At most, you can make a very fair case about them needing to break the paragraph.
To be clear, the ego is when the vanguards and staff dismiss any pushback with insults and heavy handed discord moderation, instead of rationalizing the decisions.
I mean, I haven't seen any of that, tbh. Moderation is pretty lax.
Cough, cough blegh, been a while since anyone posted new releases here huh?
Either way, here's a new picture of the Founder's Exclusive for 100K: Saint George and the Dragon (which was previously in the Catalogue, but only as a silhouette)
And additionally, Dorilates, Lochagos and the Thorakites/Agema dual kit are now up for pre-order for City-States, and the Ashen Dawn for Hundred Kingdoms.
Cough, cough blegh, been a while since anyone posted new releases here huh?
Either way, here's a new picture of the Founder's Exclusive for 100K: Saint George and the Dragon (which was previously in the Catalogue, but only as a silhouette)
Wait, they newly/officially released this image? This looks like the unfinished version that was originally in the catalog that they pulled because it was unfinished. Namely the blob of an arm.
Any rumors of a Dweggy/Tempered nerf in the near future? I'm not on the Discord so not tuned in to the latest discussion (whatever it may be). Have any others had issue with nuDweg being too powerful? Which options?
Edit: to get ahead of this; I am a long term Tempered player, I am asking this because I feel my own army is too strong. Not because I'm upset over losing.
Tempered are most likely going to be toned down in the next few weeks when the army lists get updated. Community in the discord pretty unanimously agrees that Dweghom are pretty overtuned, with Tempered being a fairly negative play experience with their tokens.
There haven't been any murmurings of what exactly that nerf will look like, though. I'm also speculating that Steelforged will, if nothing else, get a points increase, because holy cow they are the best 200 points you can spend in the game.
Also for those unaware the latest CORE rules update has come out. Cleans up charging, reinforcement lines finally work, and volleying works in a way where terrain matters more. Among other things.
Points increases would do the trick IMO. Having less of everything would make me need the tokens again rather than just having them on top of a functional army.
Nerfs to torrential and aura of death help though!
NinthMusketeer wrote: Points increases would do the trick IMO. Having less of everything would make me need the tokens again rather than just having them on top of a functional army.
Nerfs to torrential and aura of death help though!
Points increases would impact Ardent too though. It just incentives to play tempered more rather than actually fixing the problem.
A valid concern, but I am thinking point increases to Tempered units (wizards specifically) wouldn't really impact Ardent. After all, consider that steelforged are ONLY available as retinue for the steelshaper.
Though Ardent Creed itself could use a bit of a buff--IMO the new one is kinda pathetic.
Automatically Appended Next Post: In other news, anyone else disappointed by the Herald of Magma? I feel like the visual aesthetics and themes don't line up with the rest of the army very well.
JimmyWolf87 wrote: Are we going to get complaints about more giants again?
Lovely model regardless.
Nah. It's totally normal to have six giant kits in an emerging game line without any actual giant faction. Meanwhile the murder fish gnome counts remains at zero...
JimmyWolf87 wrote: Are we going to get complaints about more giants again?
Lovely model regardless.
Nah. It's totally normal to have six giant kits in an emerging game line without any actual giant faction. Meanwhile the murder fish gnome counts remains at zero...
murder fish gnomes not being a mercenary unit is a real travesty.
I'd also say that warboss is right in his implication that releasing so many Giant models is a mis-application of resources for a new game with a small community. I think most Nords players probably own 1 giant, maybe 2. At this point they have 4+ giant models on the market.
chaos0xomega wrote: murder fish gnomes not being a mercenary unit is a real travesty.
I'd also say that warboss is right in his implication that releasing so many Giant models is a mis-application of resources for a new game with a small community. I think most Nords players probably own 1 giant, maybe 2. At this point they have 4+ giant models on the market.
It is a fair point on the use of resources I will admit; it's not like there aren't substantial gaps in the range for units that currently have rules but not models. I suppose the counter-argument would be that the Artisan Series stuff can't be factored in too much when looking at the release slate as they're specifically designed to be collection pieces and them being in resin means they don't add much strain onto the general production chain. I'm not going to argue there isn't a more efficient use of the design time though. That said, I don't think Para Bellum currently have a problem releasing stuff in a timely manner either so if it keeps designers and sculptors passionate being able to work on the Artisan stuff then I'm not going to complain.
Without the charm maybe? I see a lot of crossover in art style between Elden and Conquest in general; it's usually excellent. Those Steelforged don't land for me, they just look a bit 'messy'.
It is a fair point on the use of resources I will admit; it's not like there aren't substantial gaps in the range for units that currently have rules but not models. I suppose the counter-argument would be that the Artisan Series stuff can't be factored in too much when looking at the release slate as they're specifically designed to be collection pieces and them being in resin means they don't add much strain onto the general production chain. I'm not going to argue there isn't a more efficient use of the design time though. That said, I don't think Para Bellum currently have a problem releasing stuff in a timely manner either so if it keeps designers and sculptors passionate being able to work on the Artisan stuff then I'm not going to complain.
Those are certainly models that exist.
IIRC Artisan series is not their in-house studio, so they do not affect the design schedule. They are outsourced to independent sculptors to do. If you look up the artist for the 3 Jotnars, you will see his website that has tons of sculpts.
Also, anyone else hate the left foot of the Mountain Jotnar? Why do the toes curl up like that?
In the end, three giants are to be sold as a artisan aeries, I think it would have been better to combine them into one with specifications that could be replaced from the beginning.
Tontorr is looking good... I know a few people pretty excited about it. As for me I'm hyped for Steelforged this weekend, my Steelshaper will finally have a legitimate reason to be in the army!
That thing is beautiful. Love the Death-mask helm and the continuity it shows between the Old Dominion and the 100 Kingdoms. Might have to find a way to justify picking one up.
yep, fully agreed. ORCS RIDING DINOSAURS should be sending me absolutely bonkers but the Wah'drun models just feel really... flat. I don't know, weird.
I am reserving my opinion until I can see the thunder riders in person and with a different paint scheme. I don't feel the bright & colorful looks works for them like it does with the raptor riders. Yet I have also seen several times where PB models have looked much better in person as compared to the official photos (Cheiftain sculpt comes to mind).
Tontorr I think looks fantastic. Like the Apex it is everything I'd want in a wargames sculpt of that dino; all they needed to do to provide a perfect sculpt in my eyes is not screw it up!
Tabletop_Magpie wrote: yep, fully agreed. ORCS RIDING DINOSAURS should be sending me absolutely bonkers but the Wah'drun models just feel really... flat. I don't know, weird.
Likewise, I find Conquest to be such an eclectic mix of miniature design. The Dinos themselves are great but the Wah'drun range in general does absolutely nothing for me. Neither do Dweghom. Whereas the Hundred Kingdoms and Old Dominion are generally right up my street. To compare it to other fantasy aesthetics (albeit in another form of media), it's like having World of Warcraft and Elden Ring designs sat right next to each other in the same setting.
I think the designs and the asthetics are great but the scale is what stops me from getting into it personally as they don't mesh well with anything I have for none giant/ogre style stuff.
I appreciate the Para Bellum's efforts to mix familiar factions with multiple elements to differentiate Conquest from other fantasy games.
Like The Spire was made out of biology and elves.
Contrary to you, I wouldn't have liked W'adrun as a mediocre Orc if it hadn't added dinosaur facts.
W'adrun are amazing looking. I'm not a large scale rank and file guy, but those armies are very tempting the more dinos they add. The Orks themselves definitely suffer from the difficulties in creating 3D muscle in HIPS.
While cool and I am definitely hyped, I still hold out hopes that PB will do a 'filler year' where they do not launch anything for new factions and solely work on releasing kits for existing ones.
NinthMusketeer wrote: While cool and I am definitely hyped, I still hold out hopes that PB will do a 'filler year' where they do not launch anything for new factions and solely work on releasing kits for existing ones.
Agree with this whole-heartedly. I know business wise expanding factions is the way to grow the player base but we need stuff beyond the initial hook to keep people bought in.
Since the official website still states that a total of 18 factions will appear, it is inevitable that they will release new factions every year.
There are about 30 units for each faction, and about 30 units are released in a year, so I don't think it's a bad pace.
Most likely, by the time PB finishes releasing the 18 factions, the early miniatures will be too old, and the players and PB's staffs generations will be change.
For now, I think they should hold off on releasing an Artisan Series or founders' exclusive.
Some of the previewed sculpt are incredible. If they can successfully translate them to production kits, I think Conquest will be giving TOW a serious run for its money within the next year or two.
chaos0xomega wrote: Some of the previewed sculpt are incredible. If they can successfully translate them to production kits, I think Conquest will be giving TOW a serious run for its money within the next year or two.
No chance in hell. Not the same scale, not the same universe, not the same quality as well (some may be better than before, but it's still not that great overall - these last ones don't inspire me at all, TBH). Let's just accept both communities have different kinds of fans who aren't really in competition with each other. If you were talking about Kings of War, that would be more believable.
chaos0xomega wrote: Some of the previewed sculpt are incredible. If they can successfully translate them to production kits, I think Conquest will be giving TOW a serious run for its money within the next year or two.
No chance in hell. Not the same scale, not the same universe, not the same quality as well (some may be better than before, but it's still not that great overall - these last ones don't inspire me at all, TBH). Let's just accept both communities have different kinds of fans who aren't really in competition with each other. If you were talking about Kings of War, that would be more believable.
The latest Conquest releases are by far better in quality than the old WHF kits (and those kits you will be mostly be buying apart from some new characters). KoW has a lot of fans but miniature wise they are not even in the discussion.
Video discussion to go with the new catalog linked above. I like the Macedonian style cavalry figures.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Is the tontorr rider chieftain supposed to be suspended from the dino or jumping off? He looks like he's free falling. Cool sculpt though.
chaos0xomega wrote: Some of the previewed sculpt are incredible. If they can successfully translate them to production kits, I think Conquest will be giving TOW a serious run for its money within the next year or two.
No chance in hell. Not the same scale, not the same universe, not the same quality as well (some may be better than before, but it's still not that great overall - these last ones don't inspire me at all, TBH). Let's just accept both communities have different kinds of fans who aren't really in competition with each other. If you were talking about Kings of War, that would be more believable.
Yeah, lets agree to disagree. The scale and universe are entirely irrelevant and its pointless to even bring that up as a point of comparison. The quality on the most recent Conquest kits is better than anything we've ever seen from WHFB - given that the majority of the TOW range is supposed to be re-issues of old kits, Conquest will actually have the advantage in quality over it, at least until GW starts releasing new plastic kits in significant quantity.
And lol, Kings of War kits are awful, they are the dollar store fantasy miniatures kits in this discussion.
Some fun stuff coming down the pipeline for sure. Always nice to see how visually different the Conquest stuff can be in comparison to other games.
I'd forgotten the Eidolons for the City States were monstrous infantry. Not liking the pinkish flesh but that's easy enough to change when it comes time to paint my own.
That female Jarl is a must buy for me as well. I love how I thought I'd be the least interested in Nords but they are my most painted faction at this point.
I'm also wondering how that Siegebreaker Behemoth would look in Tyranid colors though...
And lol, Kings of War kits are awful, they are the dollar store fantasy miniatures kits in this discussion.
It's really just a question of miniature scale. KoW is closer to GW's own than Conquest, that is so significantly bigger in comparison than it's not even a question of using miniatures from one to play the game of the other. You just don't. That's why the comparison doesn't stand at all ; people who buy Conquest products and people who may be interested in The Old World products are simply not the same. They don't mix...especially even more because these games are so time consuming than there is simply no room to play both for the common of mortals.
It's the same reason fans of 32mm and 75mm scale miniatures aren't the same crowds that are never in competition with each other.
Again, the scale is irrelevant. Nowhere did I say anything about people using Conquest minis for TOW or vice versa. Why you keep bringing this up is absolutely baffling.
The point is that Conquest is a great game with an ever improving set of miniatures. It is becoming a solid competitor and clear rival for rank and file miniature gaming. Period, end of. That it doesn't have the same scale as other miniature games does not change that.
chaos0xomega wrote: Again, the scale is irrelevant. Nowhere did I say anything about people using Conquest minis for TOW or vice versa. Why you keep bringing this up is absolutely baffling.
The point is that Conquest is a great game with an ever improving set of miniatures. It is becoming a solid competitor and clear rival for rank and file miniature gaming. Period, end of. That it doesn't have the same scale as other miniature games does not change that.
No it's not irrelevant. It's a big issue when you choose which game you want to invest your time in. You see Conquest's game system as the real competition for other miniature wargames and seem to think its type (rank and file) is enough to make it able to weigh against big names like GW.
But it's not the case, otherwise it would have been a while Conquest would have weigh heavier in terms of number of players (hell, even a whole lot more of other games that are "deemed awesome" by their fans, most being irrelevant or dead now). The reason why Conquest is still "small" in that field is because it's not just the rules that matter : its universe and its miniatures also do. I would even add availability of the products in your area and translation of the rules in your mother language.
You can dismiss the fact Conquest miniatures are significantly bigger scale as an issue for new players (especially those who are already experienced in wargames and have a huge collection already), but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist (bigger miniatures means you need bigger shelves and bigger space to expose them, not even talking about carrying). It was certainly my case when I saw Conquest coming - that and the fact I didn't have time to invest in another time consuming game with complicated rules that is very expensive as well.
Thinking Conquest is a serious competitor for the Old World is dismissing all these reasons Conquest isn't already a serious competitor for GW core games, except in the minds of its own fans. The Old World project is targeted at nostalgia driven players who miss Warhammer Battle. This crowd has no interest in playing another game with wholly different looking miniatures AND of bigger scale...they want to play in the old world of Warhammer Battle, and that is something Conquest will never be able to offer them. So it's not even a competition : they don't play in the same schoolyard.
So the Behemoth looks amazing but the Inquisitors and especially the Eidolon stole the show for me. I really like what the Eidolon shows for the City-States. That other factions, especially the Eidolons, are influencing the City-States. It adds a level the world that I really enjoy.
As a Nords player I have to say that I am very interested in that Female Jarl sculpt. Also the Vargyr Lord looks like a fun time .
chaos0xomega wrote: Again, the scale is irrelevant. Nowhere did I say anything about people using Conquest minis for TOW or vice versa. Why you keep bringing this up is absolutely baffling.
The point is that Conquest is a great game with an ever improving set of miniatures. It is becoming a solid competitor and clear rival for rank and file miniature gaming. Period, end of. That it doesn't have the same scale as other miniature games does not change that.
No it's not irrelevant. It's a big issue when you choose which game you want to invest your time in. You see Conquest's game system as the real competition for other miniature wargames and seem to think its type (rank and file) is enough to make it able to weigh against big names like GW.
.
Mate, old Warhammer Fantasy models are a completely different scale next to Age of Sigmar stuff. Even older 40k kits are outscaled by the new stuff. Your point is moot.
Mate, old Warhammer Fantasy models are a completely different scale next to Age of Sigmar stuff. Even older 40k kits are outscaled by the new stuff. Your point is moot.
Well no, since the point made by Conquest fan chaosomega is that Conquest is a serious competitor to The Old World, not 40k or AoS thus, and that The Old World miniatures are specifically the same scale than old Warhammer Battle - thus not the same than current AoS and 40k models.
And fact is, Conquest miniatures is a bigger scale even than AoS and 40k models. Thus they're even bigger than The Old World miniatures. Why anyone would think competition is even a thing when we're talking about different games, different universes AND different miniature scales ? That is a mystery only Conquest fanboyz will understand, apparently.
It's not even a critic about Conquest as a game system. It has its own appeals. But they won't resonate with people interested in The Old World because they're not the same what they're looking for in such a project. It's not because 2 games are "rank and file" that they automatically compete with each other, that's all what I'm saying.
As for the quality of Conquest miniature, it's always a subjective matter. Some appeal to me, others clearly not - but the scale was always a big issue to me. It's not a scale I enjoy painting or playing with...and I don't have enough room for a Conquest army on my already overcrowded shelves. If it was a 10mm scale miniature wargame, that would totally not be the same issue...but it still wouldn't be competition for TOW.
Mate, old Warhammer Fantasy models are a completely different scale next to Age of Sigmar stuff. Even older 40k kits are outscaled by the new stuff. Your point is moot.
Well no, since the point made by Conquest fan chaosomega is that Conquest is a serious competitor to The Old World, not 40k or AoS thus, and that The Old World miniatures are specifically the same scale than old Warhammer Battle - thus not the same than current AoS and 40k models.
And fact is, Conquest miniatures is a bigger scale even than AoS and 40k models. Thus they're even bigger than The Old World miniatures. Why anyone would think competition is even a thing when we're talking about different games, different universes AND different miniature scales ? That is a mystery only Conquest fanboyz will understand, apparently.
It's not even a critic about Conquest as a game system. It has its own appeals. But they won't resonate with people interested in The Old World because they're not the same what they're looking for in such a project. It's not because 2 games are "rank and file" that they automatically compete with each other, that's all what I'm saying.
As for the quality of Conquest miniature, it's always a subjective matter. Some appeal to me, others clearly not - but the scale was always a big issue to me. It's not a scale I enjoy painting or playing with...and I don't have enough room for a Conquest army on my already overcrowded shelves. If it was a 10mm scale miniature wargame, that would totally not be the same issue...but it still wouldn't be competition for TOW.
I think you may just have to accept that you're in something of a minority, at least here, when it comes to the suggestion that difference in scale here invalidates it as being a competitor. Mainly because it's a dumb suggestion.
JimmyWolf87 wrote: I think you may just have to accept that you're in something of a minority, at least here, when it comes to the suggestion that difference in scale here invalidates it as being a competitor. Mainly because it's a dumb suggestion.
While I don't think it invalidates it, scale is incredibly important to many gamers including myself. I really like some of the models but was hesitant to buy in because of the scale differences; once I saw the models in my local store during a biannual used flea market event they put on, it unfortunately removed any chance of me ever buying the normal infantry. The "regular" guys were almost the size/scale of oldhammer ogryns (though not as bulky) and I wouldn't even consider using them in another game or RPG as they don't go with my existing collections across various games. I don't need things to be in exact scale with each other (they rarely are within a single product line let alone across different companies' games!) but the difference is just too much for me.
JimmyWolf87 wrote: I think you may just have to accept that you're in something of a minority, at least here, when it comes to the suggestion that difference in scale here invalidates it as being a competitor. Mainly because it's a dumb suggestion.
While I don't think it invalidates it, scale is incredibly important to many gamers including myself. I really like some of the models but was hesitant to buy in because of the scale differences; once I saw the models in my local store during a biannual used flea market event they put on, it unfortunately removed any chance of me ever buying the normal infantry. The "regular" guys were almost the size/scale of oldhammer ogryns (though not as bulky) and I wouldn't even consider using them in another game or RPG as they don't go with my existing collections across various games. I don't need things to be in exact scale with each other (they rarely are within a single product line let alone across different companies' games!) but the difference is just too much for me.
And that is absolutely respectable as an opinion; I'm not going to argue against anyone's preference or taste when it comes to scale, design, gameplay or whatever. The merits of their choice to scale their game so distinctly have been discussed ad-nauseum but it was a very deliberate choice, for better or worst. The point was more that Conquest is still broadly comparable to games of a similar scale (i.e. 28mm-40mm ish but they're largely on similar sized bases and units have a similar footprint) and design space (i.e. 'rank and file').
Scale isn't necessarily irrelevant when we're comparing, say, Warmaster to Conquest; those are games that are far enough apart in hobby space in terms of models that there'd be no expectation of them being directly comparable or necessarily competing in the same space. The difference in scale becomes more of a conscious choice in terms of what type of game or miniatures the prospective hobbyist wants to engage with. Warhammer Fantasy/The Old World and Conquest are much closer though in that regard.
I'm not for one minute going to suggest that Conquest is 'competition' in the sense that it will completely nuke the release of the Old World or anything like that (and I don't think that's even being argued by others...). It's still 'competition' in the sense that it occupies a similar hobby space though and there's bound to be some degree of cannibalization of the same market, even if it ends up being one-sided. For what it's worth, I'll likely collect and play both when TOW drops.
JimmyWolf87 wrote: I'm not for one minute going to suggest that Conquest is 'competition' in the sense that it will completely nuke the release of the Old World or anything like that (and I don't think that's even being argued by others...). It's still 'competition' in the sense that it occupies a similar hobby space though and there's bound to be some degree of cannibalization of the same market, even if it ends up being one-sided. For what it's worth, I'll likely collect and play both when TOW drops.
I agree that there is crossover between the fandoms (both are fantasy mass battle tabletop wargames after all). I just sometimes wonder how much the scale difference hinders the game rather than helping it (via added detail and posing options) but admittedly I'm biased in that regard.
JimmyWolf87 wrote: I'm not for one minute going to suggest that Conquest is 'competition' in the sense that it will completely nuke the release of the Old World or anything like that (and I don't think that's even being argued by others...). It's still 'competition' in the sense that it occupies a similar hobby space though and there's bound to be some degree of cannibalization of the same market, even if it ends up being one-sided. For what it's worth, I'll likely collect and play both when TOW drops.
I agree that there is crossover between the fandoms (both are fantasy mass battle tabletop wargames after all). I just sometimes wonder how much the scale difference hinders the game rather than helping it (via added detail and posing options) but admittedly I'm biased in that regard.
Indeed, I'd go further and suggest that there's a direct through-line in the fandoms in that Conquest was, at least in part, designed to capture the attention of jaded ex-WHFB players.
I've often seen the argument that the scale is offputting because it precludes their use alongside other ranges (which it undoubtedly does for those who care about such things). Does that number of lost potential sales translate into a significant amount? No idea. I do get the impression that PB want people who buy Conquest to do so in order to play Conquest.
Indeed, I'd go further and suggest that there's a direct through-line in the fandoms in that Conquest was, at least in part, designed to capture the attention of jaded ex-WHFB players.
The release of Sigmar basically caused every company out there to try and seize the opportunity to fill the void. That's why we got Runewars and ASoIaF among quite a few other new rank and file designs a couple years after the whole fiasco, likely meaning they started development the day of.
Conquest is very much a passion project. And it's honestly what will help it stay afloat whenever WHFB releases. That and it managing to grow into a healthy and strong playerbase.
I've often seen the argument that the scale is offputting because it precludes their use alongside other ranges (which it undoubtedly does for those who care about such things). Does that number of lost potential sales translate into a significant amount? No idea. I do get the impression that PB want people who buy Conquest to do so in order to play Conquest.
Oh that's totally their intent by choosing that particular scale, I completely agree with that. They really wanted to do their own thing, and TBH, would that project has arrived a couple decades ago, maybe it would have been that "new norm" on the market with a more numerous community.
Sadly, they arrived on a market already crowded with same kinds of games, and with player's time definitely less available for a new challenger.
And yes, for totally new players who begin their first miniature wargame and start their collection from scratch, miniature scale is not especially an issue for them (except if they live in a small room and don't have much shelf space to spare to put them away when they're not playing). But for veteran players with shelf space issue, it's definitely a thing.
If it was a skirmish game only asking for at most ten miniatures, sure I can manage. Not a whole army meant for mass battles.
Ah, people still harping about the scale. Reminds me why conquest players tend to avoid dakkadakka.
To ellaborate. The argument of 'conquest miniatures take more shelf space' is misleading, because the bigger factor to take into account into such things would be base size. And conquest minis' do have a smaller base size than modern warhammer ones. If shelf space is a consideration, then conquest minis are more desireable than warhammer ones due to smaller footprint.
Lord Kragan wrote: Ah, people still harping about the scale. Reminds me why conquest players tend to avoid dakkadakka.
It's not "harping about the scale", it's just explaining why some people didn't jump on Conquest bandwagon even though it is believed to be the best game ever by your community.
Like I said, it's not really a critic about Conquest as a game. But dismissing other's opinions won't help you promote the game, especially if you react like this.
I've often seen the argument that the scale is offputting because it precludes their use alongside other ranges (which it undoubtedly does for those who care about such things). Does that number of lost potential sales translate into a significant amount? No idea. I do get the impression that PB want people who buy Conquest to do so in order to play Conquest.
And yes, for totally new players who begin their first miniature wargame and start their collection from scratch, miniature scale is not especially an issue for them (except if they live in a small room and don't have much shelf space to spare to put them away when they're not playing). But for veteran players with shelf space issue, it's definitely a thing.
If it was a skirmish game only asking for at most ten miniatures, sure I can manage. Not a whole army meant for mass battles.
I just can't take this particularly seriously; it takes up no more 'shelf space' than WH:FB did or TOW likely will. Or any comparable rank and file fantasy game that isn't epic scale. The models are taller and occasionally bulkier but the 'footprint' isn't different (or not different enough to make a tangible difference).
Lord Kragan wrote: Ah, people still harping about the scale. Reminds me why conquest players tend to avoid dakkadakka.
I give Conquest players more credit than that. I find it difficult to believe that group therapy affirmation is the only thing they can tolerate.
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JimmyWolf87 wrote: I've often seen the argument that the scale is offputting because it precludes their use alongside other ranges (which it undoubtedly does for those who care about such things). Does that number of lost potential sales translate into a significant amount? No idea. I do get the impression that PB want people who buy Conquest to do so in order to play Conquest.
I agree that it was most definitely a conscious effort/decision likely for a variety of reasons including that one but I do find the reasoning behind that single aspect to be suspect. There's nothing about making it at an industry "standard" scale (even with the massive size bump GW's given ostensibly 32mm "heroic" with the sigmarization of the line) that precludes anyone from using it only for Conquest... but it sure does discourage people who don't want to only do so from buying.
Lord Kragan wrote: Ah, people still harping about the scale. Reminds me why conquest players tend to avoid dakkadakka.
I give Conquest players more credit than that. I find it difficult to believe that group therapy affirmation is the only thing they can tolerate.
Okay, that is a nice backhanded personal attack.
But frankly, this isn't about group therapy or 'no-negativity in the dojo'. It's about having conversations about things one likes get derailed by the upteenth repetition of the same dead horse beating. The arguments have long since repeated ad nauseam.
And anyways, let's get back into the topic of the news. They also updated the army rules.
Kingdoms, W'adrun and old dominion are unchanged. Cities got a buff to the giants' casting. Spires got some unit costs slightly lowered and the pheromancer got buffed to give regen 4 to brute drones and lower enemy deffence with an action.
Dweghom got nerfs with their defense stacking shenanigans, now shifted to cleave/AP/BI mitigation. Some units got slightly pricier.
Nords got the best deal. Their rules got strengthened to include some charge bonuses and terrain effect mitigation. Some units also got cheaper.
Nothing earthshattering, but should do the trick given that the balance is solid enough.
Said the person who responds to criticism of a miniatures line with criticism of the people mentioning it...
Lord Kragan wrote: It's about having conversations about things one likes get derailed by the upteenth repetition of the same dead horse beating. The arguments have long since repeated ad nauseam.
And anyways, let's get back into the topic of the news.
Maybe it keeps coming up because it significantly matters? Regardless, I agree that what was needed and wanted to be said has been for the most part and a return to other topics is probably for the best.
Said the person who responds to criticism of a miniatures line with criticism of the people mentioning it...
Okay, who's the one that seems to yearn for affirmative therapy now? Because if saying that repeated backtracking to the same topic is a criticism on a personal level, there are other issues at hand.
Now, in order to be fair: If anything I said could be construed as an attack, I make my apologies. It's not proforma to poison the well with such ill-behavior.*
*Of course, the 1st line of this comment is obviously construable as an attack, no iffs nor butts. My bad for that one.
As with everything I'm interested in playing, there's just no appetite for anything other than 40k, MCP, or AoS here. It is immensely frustrating.
First Blood is just £120 at Wayland Games so hopefully it stays low and despite me not liking the Dino Orc sculpts I'm sure they could win over someone locally. So, maybe a cheeky Christmas Present to myself!
As with everything I'm interested in playing, there's just no appetite for anything other than 40k, MCP, or AoS here. It is immensely frustrating.
First Blood is just £120 at Wayland Games so hopefully it stays low and despite me not liking the Dino Orc sculpts I'm sure they could win over someone locally. So, maybe a cheeky Christmas Present to myself!
You can always aim for individual 1st blood sets and buy one of them for a buddy.
Yes, two First Blood Warbands are more than enough to get started with the Skirmish game or you can split the Two Player Starter for the rank and file version.
Most of the stuff Para Bellum is coming out with lately looks great, but they still haven't shaken off the occasional terrible sculpt (who looked at the arms on the Satyroi and was like, thumbs up that looks fine?).
I think if they can solve that issue, and resculpt the older models that are almost literally in T poses to be on par with the new stuff, the game will have some broad appeal.
Rihgu wrote: Why's the siegebreaker defending that wall? Shouldn't it be busting it down?
Maybe it broke past the wall and fighting the defenders whilst the rest of the army is still out there?
Siegebreaker sounds like a vanguard type unit to me, so it would make sense that it would be ahead of the main force to punch holes in enemy defenses.
The diorama looks great. Are those typically resin for the "founders exclusive" stuff?
The murder fish gnome is a bit of a bust for me though but admittedly I'd have to see the other angles. It looks from that side like one of the 90s Leviathan/Armorcast resin models.
Fine, I'll place an order for it. Bit of a letdown, they should just give us a proper box set of fish gnome mercs and be done with it, but I'll vote with my wallet to show my support for the concept.
I picked up some of these from D&D recently (unrelated to this announcement) so I think the itch is mostly scratched though there is no gnomishness to them. I can look at the dollar store and see if they have any novelty tiny santa hats to add to them.
As a fellow murder fish gnome fanatic, I echo the desire for me; it's why I bought those D&D figs after all despite their not-gnomieness. Realistically, though, putting out a very niche meme item is always a risk and it frequently doesn't pay off from a business perspective so I understand their caution. That said... with them fully going plaid speed into plastic production over the past couple years, I can't see it being more than a drop in the bucket given how massively they've expanded their range and continue to.
Sometimes memes take on a life of their own and go viral. Fish gnomes strike me as something that could well take off and make a massive ROI for them if done right. See the success of gloomspite gits for an example of something kinda memey that doesn't take itself too seriously which has achieved massive popularity.
It certainly won't hurt much if they just produce them with resin at first to see what the real demand is. The initial outlay would be the cost of 3d modelling and test printing and they could then only produce the moulds after a potential preorder/crowdfunder showed enough interest to make it worthwhile. Heck, the first goal of the crowdfunder could even be just to sell the 3d printed models and only produce them in resin and/or plastic after a suitable stretch goal was reached.
Fishgnomes are kinda part of the Famine faction (Cthulhu themed faction that is considered the "big bad guy" of Conquest) but not sure how they will represent them when it comes out.
Yeah, thats news to me as well. They were initially presented as being mercenaries that lived in villages along the coasts on the shores of lakes and rivers, etc.
chaos0xomega wrote: Yeah, thats news to me as well. They were initially presented as being mercenaries that lived in villages along the coasts on the shores of lakes and rivers, etc.
Really? The first Murder Fish Gnomes were definitely an April Fools post.
No, I remember when the murder fish gnomes were first shown they were presented with a bit of fluff about them being mercenaries for hire that lived in coastal settlements and near lakes and rivers. Even if it was intended as a joke, that fluff was still part of the joke.
Going back to the murder fish gnomes, I just noticed that the concept artwork that was shared on here sometime back is literally labeled "Mercenary MFG".
I love that as the game continues the Nords, who were the least interesting group to me upon release, have become my most painted faction due to the sheer variety of creatures, characters, and unique units they bring to the table.
I'm sure I'll get a box eventually. Still need to get some Incarnate Sentinels in plastic just to see how they turned out.
Some crazy reveals from the recent livestream. They are doing a world's championship in Greece next year. Also the two wands lady is the first mini teased from the Sorceror Kings.
I've seen enough cavalry in Hundred Kingdoms that I want centaurs as a high-mobility force for city states, and I want they would have updated the regular Abomination instead of selling the artisan series.
Wish I could see the lower half of those two dweghom pieces at the bottom.
Also, is that an abomination, or is it an artisan series of the desolation beast or whatever that other big monster is called (not the siegebreaker snake thing, theres another one with rules and no model yet). I know it looks a lot like an abomination, but it has some extra arms and killy bits that makes me think its not.
That monster is going to have a hell of a time chasing anyone across sand, mud, or smooth flooring. I can imagine the dog-scrambling-on-a-vet-table sound effects.
StDante wrote: I bet after seeing the Old World prices they are partying in the office xD
I wouldn't be sure about that. History has showed that people love to get exploited by GW. They could charge 100$ for a single inftantry mini and someone is going to try and justify that.
Yeah, GW charges what they charge because people will pay it. TOW will be the absolute #1 tabletop fantasy rank and file miniatures game, if not on launch than within a year of release. Conquest, ASOIF, Kings of War, and whatever else will be fighting for 2nd place.
Yup, just like with Monopoly, D&D, MtG in their respective subgenres, Warhammer will dominate through sheer brand recognition, regardless of the competition making better and/or cheaper games.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: Still, it couldn’t hurt Conquest to whip up a scale shot of their household knights next to a $20 Grail Knight, with price comparison superimposed.
It could definitely hurt Conquest to do that. When Mantic did similar pandering to the anti-GW crowd, the local Kings of War scene died. Nobody wanted a company that resorts to taking digs at their competition, they wanted a company that stands strong on its own merits. Leave it to the community to do stuff like that (although it's equally as distasteful for the community to be driven by anti-GW hate rather than the merits of the game. Some of the worst games of Conquest/Kings of War have been against opponents who spent more of the game whining about GW than playing the actual game. Why are you here, playing this game, if you'd rather be talking about a different game...).
Para Bellum reveled their 5th anniversary logo. They plan to do a lot of stuff around this milestone in 2024.
There's a couple of year 1 kits that could do with a year 5 refresh...
It's not really an alternative mini due to massive difference in scale, and yes showing off your miniature alongside another company's miniature purely for the fact of "hey we're better-looking AND cheaper" would be considered an anti-"other company" action.
It'd be like if Khurasan showed off one of their 15mm sets compared to Conquest Knights and were like "3 Knights for $5.50USD!" What's the point? Just to get a boon from negative feelings towards another company.
I dunno, Warcradle seems to have made out well with the Armored Clash "cut the mustard" photo they released as a sort-of counter-meme to the one that GW released of the little rhino driving through the ketchup packet.
It needs to be done right. Just a straight up price comparison between the two is not cash money. You want to put BDE on display, and thats not BDE. Wait for GW to do something cute with Bretonnian knights, and then do something *cuter* with Conquest knights - THAT is BDE.
Rihgu wrote: It could definitely hurt Conquest to do that. When Mantic did similar pandering to the anti-GW crowd, the local Kings of War scene died.
Your local scene was that sensitive to comparative advertising? I don't think that's universally applicable and there were likey a myriad of other factors that contributed to it. If anything, the post AOS revolt simply petered out as most do and folks were left with minis that were of the same quality (and admittedly price to their credit) of GW products more than a decade older. I don't believe that is the case with Conquest as their minis are actually quite good especially for such a relative newcomer to the industry.
Nobody wanted a company that resorts to taking digs at their competition, they wanted a company that stands strong on its own merits. Leave it to the community to do stuff like that (although it's equally as distasteful for the community to be driven by anti-GW hate rather than the merits of the game.
I agree to an extent that it shouldn't be the sole or even primary focus but a simple comparison that lets the customer make their own decision isn't "hate". I fully admit I didn't see this expansive and acerbic Mantic scorched earth advertising campaign that ravaged Nottingham though. Could you post a link to the examples you think are most indicative of the truly local-scene killing advertising you mentioned?
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