NinthMusketeer wrote: I would love to hear feedback on if people find combined mortal/daemon armies to be too strong, it is definitely something I will consider house ruling into future campaigns.
In narrative play, which units you can place in a warband are based on the runemarks associated with the campaign you undertake - all the campaigns for Nurgle, Khorne, and Tzeentch have runemarks for both their mortal and demon factions. This seems to indicate that they are intended to be played together, though for fated quests and matched play, you are limited to a single faction runemark.
Posting this since they can be used in Warcry. Few models + scenery/objective( wonder why nobody posted something about Seraphon vs Daemon band with Bastiladon as a custom objective?).
DoK box was meh for warcry. You can only use 1 allies, and have to use the other, along side the spear witch as "witch elves" There're no use for the shrine, the avatar, or the medusa.
NinthMusketeer wrote: Trolls have rampaging beasts rules in the Tome of Champions, as do Squigs as I recall. For 'npc' opposition that SC isn't a bad buy.
Well I guess that's another warband for me. Top two guys are my favorite. Have a vague samurai like style to them. Maybe it's just me.
Happy to see the note about how although this is the final warband of the initial release it won't be the last.
I feel like these smaller scale games are the perfect place to throw unique looking sculpts in that don't have to be tied to anything other than the fact that they look cool.
Did GW hire Stephane Simon (the guy who did the Mierce War-Drunes and lots of similiar buff dudes with ginormous lats and a ton of veins)? Totally getting those vibes from the two-handed flame poleaxe. The blond cultist is great, too, GW's plastic females are getting better, be it elves, Eldar, goody two- shoes humans, blood thirsty humans, everything. Even so-buff-they're-abhumans (Goliath Forgeborn) look ace.
And they have a guy so angry that he punches things while ON FIRE! Heck yeah And samurai-knight leader dude rocks a Flamberge. Insta-buy.
I really like them too. I was a bit afraid with the previous previews, that they would be too "demonic faces", but I'm glad with what they have done. Surprisingly enough, they look even a bit civilized - their weapons are quite stylized, making me remember the Fyreslayer weapons.
About rules, from what Ben said in the video, looks like they'll have a few range attacks - throwing fireballs and even fire breath. And they seem to be dealing quite a lot of damage.
These are pretty cool looking. I like the top left and bottom right two the most. The pose on the priesty type woman (top right) looks a bit awkward, but it could just be the angle.
The thing that lets this warband down for me though is the bare feet. I really wish GW wouldn't do this.
Snrub wrote: These are pretty cool looking. I like the top left and bottom right two the most. The pose on the priesty type woman (top right) looks a bit awkward, but it could just be the angle.
The thing that lets this warband down for me though is the bare feet. I really wish GW wouldn't do this.
They have to prove they can walk across burning coals barefoot to prove their mettle before they are allowed to wear shoes.
Snrub wrote: The thing that lets this warband down for me though is the bare feet. I really wish GW wouldn't do this.
A good portion of the Warcy Cults are barefoot. I think it is supposed to sell the idea of just how far humanity, or mortals for that matter, have regressed since the beginning of the Age of Chaos. For the average person in the Mortal Realms they are living in a pre-Iron Age or even pre-Bronze Age level of technology and in fear of what whim the dark gods cast their way. The lore tends to speak more of tribes over even villages much less towns. Life is dark and savage. Even with the return of Sigmar's forces, it really isn't the Age of Sigmar and is still the Age of Chaos setting-wise. I know the AoS factions are super-powered compared to WHFB, but that isn't the average joe schmoe who is living is much worse conditions than even the lowest of rat catcher of the Old World.
Snrub wrote: The thing that lets this warband down for me though is the bare feet. I really wish GW wouldn't do this.
A good portion of the Warcy Cults are barefoot. I think it is supposed to sell the idea of just how far humanity, or mortals for that matter, have regressed since the beginning of the Age of Chaos. For the average person in the Mortal Realms they are living in a pre-Iron Age or even pre-Bronze Age level of technology
Pre-Iron Age with... cannons? I don't think that assertion works out. Even for the chaos tribes, sandals and basic shoes aren't hard or high-tech. Most neolithic age tribes managed something to protect feet, even if it was just a rough oval of boiled hide and straps.
It is a thing with almost all the Warcry bands, but its still just as baffling.
Snrub wrote: The thing that lets this warband down for me though is the bare feet. I really wish GW wouldn't do this.
A good portion of the Warcy Cults are barefoot. I think it is supposed to sell the idea of just how far humanity, or mortals for that matter, have regressed since the beginning of the Age of Chaos. For the average person in the Mortal Realms they are living in a pre-Iron Age or even pre-Bronze Age level of technology
Pre-Iron Age with... cannons? I don't think that assertion works out. Even for the chaos tribes, sandals and basic shoes aren't hard or high-tech. Most neolithic age tribes managed something to protect feet, even if it was just a rough oval of boiled hide and straps.
It is a thing with almost all the Warcry bands, but its still just as baffling.
Actual Age of Sigmar factions run the gamut of technology levels all the way up to late 19th century and beyond with retro-sci-fi stuff (Read: Kharadron Overlords and some Cities of Sigmar stuff), the vast teaming masses of humanity don't have much more access to basic things. Made more difficult by the ever corrupting Chaos Realm, the dark gods and their servants and monsters. Even the favored Slaves of Darkness don't have cannons for their armies. And my army could really use them.
True as that might be that pre-Bronze Age people still had footwear, that doesn't mean the average GW hobbyist is going know that. Even sandals are likely going to read as more advanced and a higher quality of life than the setting is trying to suggest mortals have. I don't think it is coincidence that one of the more sophisticated cults, the Cypher Lords, actually wear sandals on of their models. Like I said, have barefoot cultists is a kind of visual shorthand to how little typical mortals have, how far they have fallen and how tough they have to be to survive in the Age of Chaos. Especially when you think even Warcry cults are a step above the huddled masses. I mean these cults haven't even started on the Path to Glory yet and may or may not know the Chaos gods by their more common names.
Ultimately, it is fantasy and it only has to make enough sense maintain suspension of disbelief in a person. I don't find barefoot tribes coming anywhere close to pushing that in this brutal, heavy metal album art sort of setting. I find it a breath of fresh air that AoS is actually taking new-ish paths in the Fantasy genre rather than walking the same tired, deep rutted roads that fantasy largely has stuck to for some 40 years. Lots of vocal people on the internet don't like it. And that's fine. There are hundreds, if not thousands, of generic fantasy (what an oxymoron) worlds out there for them to visit if they are so inclined. I wish them all the best, but I actually like the direction Age of Sigmar has been going so far hope it continues.
Looking at the warband, they're amazing. I don't see any overtly Chaotic imagery either, except perhaps the bottom right gys mask, which could be passed off as a Sun Mask, or the top lefts brazers on his back.
They feel very civilizard compared to some of the ones we have seen. I will admit I haven't really read up on them though, so i'm not aware of their lore.
These guys are fantastic and just dripping with flavor. I love fanatical cult vibe these guys give.
The Warcry warbands GW has put out have all been excellent, and in my opinion is probably the most consistently great range they have across all of their games. Each warband has a very distinct feel, personality, and aesthetic.
Definitely looking forward to adding these guys to my collection (along with the other two warbands I don't own to get up to the even eight).
No-shows works as an aesthetic when it is used sparingly. On these guys, with their pseudo-eastern monkish vibe, it works. Especially because it is only a few of them.
Warcry really is the current gem in GWs crown. Really some fantastic models. I love the old school Sword and Sorcery movie vibe these guys have going. Aside from their footwear, they are generally using believable if slightly impractical weapons and have clothing and helmets that don't require the "b b b but it's magic!" defense.
Gallahad wrote: Warcry really is the current gem in GWs crown. Really some fantastic models. I love the old school Sword and Sorcery movie vibe these guys have going. Aside from their footwear, they are generally using believable if slightly impractical weapons and have clothing and helmets that don't require the "b b b but it's magic!" defense.
Well, except the cypher lords. Flat metal panels on top of entirely enclosed helms...
Gallahad wrote: Warcry really is the current gem in GWs crown. Really some fantastic models. I love the old school Sword and Sorcery movie vibe these guys have going. Aside from their footwear, they are generally using believable if slightly impractical weapons and have clothing and helmets that don't require the "b b b but it's magic!" defense.
Well, except the cypher lords. Flat metal panels on top of entirely enclosed helms...
Yeah, fair point. The Cypher Lord's just got blocked from my mind. They are the worst of the bunch.
NinthMusketeer wrote: I have never, not once, seen the 'magic defense' used for GWs helmets. Rule of cool once in a while.
Maybe not magic per se, but I’ve seen the “it’s fantasy” defence invoked multiple times. It usually goes along the lines of, “You can’t complain about the height of helmets because dragons”.
And even with magic to justify them they still LOOK silly. Something none of the warbands suffer from to nearly the same degree. If anything my biggest complaint is with the splintered fang whip models; those whips are completely impractical to actually play with, enough to render them non-viable as an option.
Any news when the bigger box of Spire Tyrants is supposed to drop? The double sized one that doesn’t have WC cards in it. I know all the earlier sets are in the double sized group, but not them...yet.
timetowaste85 wrote: Any news when the bigger box of Spire Tyrants is supposed to drop? The double sized one that doesn’t have WC cards in it. I know all the earlier sets are in the double sized group, but not them...yet.
With the GW factory closed there's no news of any releases. Especially as GW has no idea when they will reopen nor what the global scene is going to be like then.
I suspect the most likely thing is for them to start rolling as they were planning to do originally,
I cant imagine a huge dump of 3 months+ of releases at once (and anything they preview they can't just ignore and not release so the more they tease the more they're fixing their future releases in place)
Edit: and they're also going to want to see how sales hold up compared to pre-corona numbers, if its ok they can carry on as before, if sales are down because people have debts, lost their jobs, are saving for virus wave 2 etc they'll want to know so they can adjust future developments and the more similar their sales pattern is in the short term the more accurate the comparisons they can make
The other aspect is what they might have to wait on from China or other partners - we've no idea what their stocks of materials or boxes and such are like. Best case is they've several shipments from China just waiting to be unloaded and the blip in factory shutdown gets overrun by the UK shutdown to the china production catches up.
The other aspect is how they choose to roll things out as when the UK comes back online (even if limited) other nations might not be online. The USA could be in full lockdown. So that's going to affect GW's ability to serve that market since its stock goes through warehousing rather than just through national mail.
I'd wager as GW can't work at present chances are they'll pick up where they left off and will just have to push most of their plans along X number of months. Perhaps with a few ships to coincide with Christmas and other key periods.
The other option is that they go mad and produce bump amounts of product to flood the market to catch up with their projected positions
Don't think we heard of the double-sized Warcry sets from GW until just before release anyway, instead being left scratching our heads when the products were on some shipping/order list and nobody knew in what way they were repackaged from the slightly cheaper sets with the same name released not long before.
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: Noice, but I hope that isn't the entire warband or that's going to hurt at standard warcry box prices
They confirmed there's more than 3
However it looks like there's alternate builds for the two cloaked ones shown. The gent with the flaming hand and dagger is the same build as the twin crossbows and the living cloak has the twin spear.
What's great is that if you want to unique versions of the leader, the Mistweaver Saih from Warhammer Quest is a great stand in. Just with less rough looking weapons, and more mist, less wavey capes.
Sadly, I'm pretty sure they ended up making her cost 30$ like all solo warhammer quest characters, for reasons unknown.
These are awesome. I know I’ve said before but I wish they’d waited til they had unique warbands like this before they added non chaos stuff to the game.
This was genuinely a cool preview, much better one than the last two.
We got a new faction for AoS shown, along with a character model for another one, a new expansion for BSF, a very cool new Necron, a unique Inquisitor, a new Blood Bowl team (though a strange choice), and an excellent new Warcry band. Even cooler is it shows that the Warcry team is willing to make new non-Chaos models specific to that game- that’s a huge development.
Totally not my aesthetic. They are technically well done but I feel like I cannot judge them well because I am so apathetic to their style. Pretty sure that's just me.
NinthMusketeer wrote: Totally not my aesthetic. They are technically well done but I feel like I cannot judge them well because I am so apathetic to their style. Pretty sure that's just me.
It will be interesting to see them painted in standard DoK colours with shadow capes and spells as well. I think part of what is making them stand out is that the artist has clearly gone for a non-traditional DoK scheme at the same time as having new units with a new design approach.
"We are going to be fighting in close quarters among ruins? Let me get my 12-foot pike!!"
Have fun trying to manipulate THAT model into position anywhere. I remember that from my Confrontation: Age of Ragnorok spearmen, and those were even shorter.
Don't get me wrong; in unit form a spear of that length is totally appropriate (and dare I say... realistic). But in Warcry it becomes rather absurd, even beyond the normal boundaries.
NinthMusketeer wrote: Don't get me wrong; in unit form a spear of that length is totally appropriate (and dare I say... realistic). But in Warcry it becomes rather absurd, even beyond the normal boundaries.
But it’s most likely the only option the unit has and it’s the core unit of the army so it was gonna be in Warcry.
NinthMusketeer wrote: Don't get me wrong; in unit form a spear of that length is totally appropriate (and dare I say... realistic). But in Warcry it becomes rather absurd, even beyond the normal boundaries.
But it’s most likely the only option the unit has and it’s the core unit of the army so it was gonna be in Warcry.
Well some of those pikemen have back-up sword on their back so they could end up being more versatile then you think.
Indeed quite a bit longer than the already long ones shown in the preview! Could be a pike upgrade, or a conversion done for Warcry.
Spoiler:
The one in the WarCry photo seems to be one from the second or third 'rank'. Might be that there's an upgrade in the unit or there's a collapsible mechanism that we'll find out about via the fluff.
Could also just be the POV in the Lumineth Lowdown photo that makes it look like they're shorter than they are.
Has anyone else read Light of Eltharion rules off the community site? He is something to be seen. 7 wounds three up save with no modifiers 4 attacks at 2+ 3+ -2 (I think) and damage D3. Ops -3 rend my mistake
No wolves on Fenris wrote: Has anyone else read Light of Eltharion rules off the community site? He is something to be seen. 7 wounds three up save with no modifiers 4 attacks at 2+ 3+ -2 (I think) and damage D3. Ops -3 rend my mistake
I've mistaken the Warcry thread for the Age of Sigmar thread myself in the past. I'd imagine the mods would prefer us to continue this discussion in the appropriate thread.
Wasn’t expecting my white dwarf to arrive until end of June given the Warhammer Community article but it arrived today. 11 options for the warcry warband.
Scinari Cathallar
Alarith Stonemage
Steedmaster
High Sentinel
High Warden
Truestone Seneschal
Vanari Dawnrider
Vanari Auralan Sentinel
Vanari Auralan Warden
Alarith stoneguard with diamondpick hammer
Alarirth Stoneguard with stone mallet
The abilities are tacticool but the slight defensive buffs just won't cut it against the raw power of some warbands IMHO, and of the 7 abilities you'll never have more than 4 on the table as most of them are on the horde of different Leaders. If they could only take the Stonemage and the High Sentinel together.
I completely disagree. I do not see them being fantastic, but a strong set of doubles coupled with a very strong basic infantry option means they just can't be bad. 3" melee range on those spearmen at 80 points is a steal. I play splintered fang; I know from experience how much one good double and one good basic unit can determine a faction's capability.
Very nice indeed. I only wish they went all in on the new terrain theme. The fire board is epic but it could do with more terrain than just 3d doors and some rubble. Bring it closer to the display table shown in the same theme.
Definitely double dipping on this the original starter was £100 2 warbands are £60 so all the rest is £40 to £60 as I think this new starter will push towards £120.
I also think the Scions weren't part of the original plan for this set but Covid pushed them out so far they've ended up in the new set. I'd say Catacombs was planned but changing 1 of the warbands was relatively straight forward so they did it.
The new Underworlds stuff will be a nice starting point for some warbands as well. Adding Morgok Krushas to Iornskull's boyz is a complete Warcry Warband.
Do you guys read the announcement as meaning that some of the original Warcry terrain comes in the new box? I've gotta say that the catacombs terrain board looks terrible especially for the price. Looks like a cheapo board game. I'd much rather have walls with doors I have to imagine than doors with walls I have to imagine.
Gallahad wrote: Do you guys read the announcement as meaning that some of the original Warcry terrain comes in the new box? I've gotta say that the catacombs terrain board looks terrible especially for the price. Looks like a cheapo board game. I'd much rather have walls with doors I have to imagine than doors with walls I have to imagine.
Did they announce the price then? I'm pretty sure we haven't seen it yet.
I'd expect it to be priced the same as the previous box. You basically get the same amount of content - two warbands, boards and terrain. The only difference is that now with the new mode the terrain is split into two kinds to suit the 2D and 3D game board options. So perhaps a little less 3D terrain in the box; but Warcry stuff has always been designed to be bolstered with terrain boxes anyway.
I like the idea of a catacomb box set, could see myself picking up the board and terrain off ebay or something. But wait a minute, that terrain is freaking abysmal.... Especially compared to the previous box.
The obsession with "SkUlLs EvErYwHeRe" is reaching new all time highs (if that was even possible). Those archways, doors and bridges look genuinely dumb. Hats off to the designer.
Carlovonsexron wrote: ugh. been looking forward to the scions for.months and they come.bundled.with terrain Ibfind ugly and a warband Im not.interested in.
just my luck lol.
Well it might work in your favour. Warcry Warbands from the first boxed set were sold secondhand new on the sprue on ebay for generally less than they went for retail. Even if they go for the same retail on ebay you'll still likely have a chance to pick them up. Heck the individual bands didn't take long to come out after that boxed set either. A few weeks if I recall right and they were out.
Yeah, even with some of the additional decent terrain in the box I just hate all the catacomb stuff and would honestly be embarrassed to own it.
It looks like bad 80s kids toys.
Extremely excited for the miniatures, the board, the missions, all of it. Very much looking forward to it and even if the written content isn't good (which I doubt--Bottle knows what he's doing) the models are still awesome.
I personally really like this boxed set. Both Warbands are pretty awesome, two modes of play with terrain for both (a bit skimpy on the above ground - but not too bad). I can use this to expand my original starter terrain, get a couple new warbands, and have a new game mode?
Yeah, nine models in the warband according to the photo of the board. I thought top left and bottom right were alternate builds because the legs are the same bar a gem on the knee of the latter, but apparently not.
Not sure why they're showing off the alternate weapons of the not-Sister of Slaughter though, because the board photo seems to show all but the boss with alternate weapon load outs (lots of different blades, a few spears, dual crossbow guy can be armed with a dagger and magic missile, and the dagger and magic missile guy has his own dual crossbow option). Definitely a warband you'll want more than one box for.
That's probably right. Having assembled two Warcry warbands and read the directions for a third, that's how GW usually does it. Those Khainites do look good. Somewhat concerned about the price of the new starter though.
Really excited for this new set. Already planning on splitting it with my brother, I can't wait to pick up those Scions of Flame. Terrain looks fun, and the pieces from the old set can be combined with the terrain pack I already have. Impatient for that pre-order date.
I'm a bit tired of the GW portraying chaos to be some schmucky, klutz attempt at very bad 80's van art schlock.
The terrain in the first starter gave me hope they were veering away from that, and now this catacombs stuff looks straight out of a technicolor hell, bent on breaking your mind from how stupid it looks, and not from how imposing it is.
Those skulls above the doors are the most egregious examples, and I spurn the entire thing just because of those elements. The rest is forgivable, even the bridge with its "Chaos Skulls" (trademark, all rights reserved, patent pending) and spikes sticking out the side, while over the top in a way only dino delaurentis could have conceived in an 80s movie, can be overlooked when placed side by side to those ridiculous doors.
I yammer on about thisL because the first starter's terrain began a precedent of non stupid looking and believable terrain, taking place in the blood wind spoil that could only be described as hell on earth. And then GW got all Disney with chaos again.
I hope there are interesting new rules, twists, deployments and victory conditions in this new set.
Hellfury wrote: I'm a bit tired of the GW portraying chaos to be some schmucky, klutz attempt at very bad 80's van art schlock.
The terrain in the first starter gave me hope they were veering away from that, and now this catacombs stuff looks straight out of a technicolor hell, bent on breaking your mind from how stupid it looks, and not from how imposing it is.
Those skulls above the doors are the most egregious examples, and I spurn the entire thing just because of those elements. The rest is forgivable, even the bridge with its "Chaos Skulls" (trademark, all rights reserved, patent pending) and spikes sticking out the side, while over the top in a way only dino delaurentis could have conceived in an 80s movie, can be overlooked when placed side by side to those ridiculous doors.
I yammer on about thisL because the first starter's terrain began a precedent of non stupid looking and believable terrain, taking place in the blood wind spoil that could only be described as hell on earth. And then GW got all Disney with chaos again.
I hope there are interesting new rules, twists, deployments and victory conditions in this new set.
Yeah, the terrain is truly terrible cartoon levels of bad. I would honestly be embarrassed if someone saw that sitting on a shelf and I had to fess up that it belonged to me, not some kid.
I have not formed an opinion about the new terrain yet, generally speaking I need to be able to make out a lot more detail to determine if I like something or not.
Chopstick wrote: Look okay but it'll probably be 20-30US$ higher than the previous starter so I'll probably be skipping this one.
That'd be a hard sell. A handful of doors and odd bits doesn't match up to the big pile of ruins in the original box.
Though these gangs look better.
Well they're including terrain from the original set as well. I'm excited for that because the Defiled Ruins terrain kit I got has some cards that combine both kits. Nice to have some variety in there. Brother and I are planning on splitting the kit, DoK for him and Scions for me. He'll get the dungeon stuff. I actually think it looks pretty fun and camp. Wouldn't be embarrassed to have it on my shelf at all!
The doors with the giant distorted skulls are pretty bad.
But if the usual pricing trend for starters continues, you can easily throw out the lava half of the box and still come out ahead.
Anyway I'm doing the opposite and going all in on the lava. Gonna pester Deep Cut Studio until they make a pure lava mat, and I'll 3d print some half sunken platforms to jump between.
If I was to guess on a price point for this I would say it will be a bit cheaper than the original starter. I know GW isn't one to really drop costs, but there is substantially less stuff in this box than the original. You get about 3/4s the terrain in this box (including the catacombs terrain), and you lose out on 12 models in that there are no wild monsters in the box. Because of that I think price point will end up at 160 USD, Maybe 150.
My bet is for $160 US. The last few "starter" boxes have been at that point. And while other manufacturers might reduce the price of a starter that has less material, GW will not. Look at the 2nd Kill Team Starter; same price as the 1st, but fewer figures, less terrain (and not as useful terrain at that.). Similarly, The Blood Of The Phoenix with the new Jain Zar, plastic Banshees, Drazhar and Incubi was $230 for 22 figures!
Sabotage! wrote: If I was to guess on a price point for this I would say it will be a bit cheaper than the original starter. I know GW isn't one to really drop costs, but there is substantially less stuff in this box than the original. You get about 3/4s the terrain in this box (including the catacombs terrain), and you lose out on 12 models in that there are no wild monsters in the box. Because of that I think price point will end up at 160 USD, Maybe 150.
Hellfury wrote: I'm a bit tired of the GW portraying chaos to be some schmucky, klutz attempt at very bad 80's van art schlock.
The terrain in the first starter gave me hope they were veering away from that, and now this catacombs stuff looks straight out of a technicolor hell, bent on breaking your mind from how stupid it looks, and not from how imposing it is.
Those skulls above the doors are the most egregious examples, and I spurn the entire thing just because of those elements. The rest is forgivable, even the bridge with its "Chaos Skulls" (trademark, all rights reserved, patent pending) and spikes sticking out the side, while over the top in a way only dino delaurentis could have conceived in an 80s movie, can be overlooked when placed side by side to those ridiculous doors.
I yammer on about thisL because the first starter's terrain began a precedent of non stupid looking and believable terrain, taking place in the blood wind spoil that could only be described as hell on earth. And then GW got all Disney with chaos again.
I hope there are interesting new rules, twists, deployments and victory conditions in this new set.
Yeah, the terrain is truly terrible cartoon levels of bad. I would honestly be embarrassed if someone saw that sitting on a shelf and I had to fess up that it belonged to me, not some kid.
I'd be embarrassed that I cared that much about how my toy buildings look.
Hellfury wrote: I'm a bit tired of the GW portraying chaos to be some schmucky, klutz attempt at very bad 80's van art schlock.
The terrain in the first starter gave me hope they were veering away from that, and now this catacombs stuff looks straight out of a technicolor hell, bent on breaking your mind from how stupid it looks, and not from how imposing it is.
Those skulls above the doors are the most egregious examples, and I spurn the entire thing just because of those elements. The rest is forgivable, even the bridge with its "Chaos Skulls" (trademark, all rights reserved, patent pending) and spikes sticking out the side, while over the top in a way only dino delaurentis could have conceived in an 80s movie, can be overlooked when placed side by side to those ridiculous doors.
I yammer on about thisL because the first starter's terrain began a precedent of non stupid looking and believable terrain, taking place in the blood wind spoil that could only be described as hell on earth. And then GW got all Disney with chaos again.
I hope there are interesting new rules, twists, deployments and victory conditions in this new set.
Yeah, the terrain is truly terrible cartoon levels of bad. I would honestly be embarrassed if someone saw that sitting on a shelf and I had to fess up that it belonged to me, not some kid.
I'd be embarrassed that I cared that much about how my toy buildings look.
Seriously? Visual appeal and aesthetics are a huge part of miniature wargaming. Pretending like it is embarrassing to care about is first rate hobby hipsterism.
I don't like wargaming ironically. I find it an incredibly compelling hobby. Maybe you are too cool to care about slopping schlock on the table because 'it's just a game bro!" But I'm not.
I've used my fair share of budget terrain that wasn't very visually compelling but the stuff in this box is neither budget friendly nor visually compelling. I find the aesthetics and design of the terrain cheap and thoughtless, the aesthetic equivalent of a basic Mcdonald burger.
Buy it without passion if you must, but I'd be embarrassed to own it.
At the very least I'd prefer kitschy 80 bad guy cartoon throwbacks to be optional than being thrown into a new starter, and I say that as the guy who made the he-man conversion on reddit.
this stuff is.perfect for if you want He-Mans skeletor, or Thundercats mum-ra fortress of aesthetic and not much else.
For premium prices Id prefer something much more versatile than this. (or what GW usually presents as skull covered anything for that matter, but that's a complaint for a different time.)
part of why this is all frustrating is because.of just how great the warband sculpts are.
Also don't forget if they follow the normal Warcry pattern there will be two boxes for each warband (or at least the Slaves to Darkness one); one with one band and cards for Warcry and one with no cards but two sets of fighters for regular (at a slightly higher, but saving, price)
Lets face it without Corona chances are we'd have had this set in Q1 or Q2 of this year rather than lagging into Q4. Spire Tyrants duel release might well have been part of it.
Man some people seem to care quite a lot about terrain specifics. I did not expect to see people so passionate about the basic shape of one piece of one doorframe in a larger terrain set that is itself part of a larger box, it seems excessive to me to be quite so invested. But I suppose it is a strictly subjective matter, so who am I to judge.
I don't know if I will mind them but worst case I chuck out the doors I don't like and still have a pretty good box set.
Lets face it the boxed sets typically give a nice discount and are sold through 3rd parties for more discounting - at worst the doors are basically free.
NinthMusketeer wrote: Man some people seem to care quite a lot about terrain specifics. I did not expect to see people so passionate about the basic shape of one piece of one doorframe in a larger terrain set that is itself part of a larger box, it seems excessive to me to be quite so invested. But I suppose it is a strictly subjective matter, so who am I to judge.
I don't know if I will mind them but worst case I chuck out the doors I don't like and still have a pretty good box set.
If it were just one.door frame I think people could live with it, but pretty much all the lava dungeon terrain is that bad.
NinthMusketeer wrote: Are there closer/more detail images I missed? I am finding it hard to believe someone would judge the whole thing just with what we have.
Pretty clear. just the far left one is a bit naff to me.
Some of the arches are good, some aren't, it's not a huge deal for me. On the image above, those arches on the right of the pic look great (as they do in the other icimo) and even the crappier ones that are used to support the walkway in the centre look fine when used for that purpose. The arches used for doorways on the left look mediocre but acceptable. We can't see the worst set (imo) in that pic, the ones with the big skull, but even so, I think the set as a whole looks fine. I definitely don't look at the pic above and think "Wow, so very trite".
1/3 of the doors look goofy, the rest nicely fit the GW aesthetic. I don't see it as an issue, as I am more interested in the boards and miniatures. I don't place much value on doors and arches as a whole as I have about 30 years worth of GW (and other) gaming arches/doors/etc.
The doors with the giant skulls are the worst (as evidenced by their total absence from the diorama) and unfortunately there are also twice as many of them as the other designs. Not a dealbreaker for me, but it will all come down to price vs. just getting the Scions of the Flame when the standalone is released.
ecurtz wrote: The doors with the giant skulls are the worst (as evidenced by their total absence from the diorama)
They're the white bits poking up from behind the main bridge!
Even those doors themselves understand how ridiculous they look, and thus, hide their faces in abject shame.
Unfortunately, their hideously deformed foreheads are so ugly and bulbous, like the red swollen ass of a baboon, that they cannot be hidden by mere mortal constructs. The power of Chaos! (all rights reserved) is just too great to be concealed.
NinthMusketeer wrote: Are there closer/more detail images I missed? I am finding it hard to believe someone would judge the whole thing just with what we have.
You've forgotten what website you're on?
And really all I'm learning is that I'm some kind of monster for having the temerity to like these new models/terrain.
NinthMusketeer wrote: Are there closer/more detail images I missed? I am finding it hard to believe someone would judge the whole thing just with what we have.
You've forgotten what website you're on?
And really all I'm learning is that I'm some kind of monster for having the temerity to like these new models/terrain.
I don't know, I think the Catacombs terrain is pretty cool. Yes, the giant skull gates are over the top, but Chaos has always been over the top. I mean look at the Skull Palace (or whatever it's called) terrain. Or how about the guy that is literally on fire in the Scions? Or basically any model from the Khorne line? They are goofy as hell. I guess I just think it's part of the Chaos faction's charm.
NinthMusketeer wrote: Are there closer/more detail images I missed? I am finding it hard to believe someone would judge the whole thing just with what we have.
You've forgotten what website you're on?
And really all I'm learning is that I'm some kind of monster for having the temerity to like these new models/terrain.
For some reason that feels a bit out of place. Maybe because that faction consists of so many legacy models, it's hard for me to square with the new setting. Seraphon feel a bit off for the same reason.
Seraphon are fine, especially with the evolution of their lore shifting from being purely etherial armies summoned by Slaan mages, into armies of living flesh and blood Seraphon lizards settling and building kingdoms in the realms
Cities does have a bit of a disconnect because humans in the lore are very very steam punk and yet Cities has very little of that going on. I think Cities is one faction that might end up with the most change over time.
Overread wrote: Seraphon are fine, especially with the evolution of their lore shifting from being purely etherial armies summoned by Slaan mages, into armies of living flesh and blood Seraphon lizards settling and building kingdoms in the realms
Cities does have a bit of a disconnect because humans in the lore are very very steam punk and yet Cities has very little of that going on. I think Cities is one faction that might end up with the most change over time.
Through my joy in playing Warcry, I think I've finally overcome my grief at the end of the Old World. I'm actually quite excited to see bespoke units for the Living City, Hammerhall, Tempest's Eye, any of them. It would also provide a natural counterpoint to Warcry in helping to flesh out the Realms; those warbands represent the chaotic side of life in the mortal realms at CoS the civilized.
Overread wrote: Seraphon are fine, especially with the evolution of their lore shifting from being purely etherial armies summoned by Slaan mages, into armies of living flesh and blood Seraphon lizards settling and building kingdoms in the realms
Cities does have a bit of a disconnect because humans in the lore are very very steam punk and yet Cities has very little of that going on. I think Cities is one faction that might end up with the most change over time.
Through my joy in playing Warcry, I think I've finally overcome my grief at the end of the Old World. I'm actually quite excited to see bespoke units for the Living City, Hammerhall, Tempest's Eye, any of them. It would also provide a natural counterpoint to Warcry in helping to flesh out the Realms; those warbands represent the chaotic side of life in the mortal realms at CoS the civilized.
Yep I honestly really love how GW did Slaves to Darkness. Instead of 10 slightly different themed armies they've done one core army and then added flavour with the warbands. Throw in a few leaders like the Darkoath Queen and you've got a fantastic way to represent the diversity. Players can then use paint and conversions to give their chaos warriors some hints of their heritage if they want. Whilst one can debate the value of their rules and variation, I think flavour wise its great.
It's a way I could see them doing Imperial Guard in time - give them a core of units that are universal and then add in a single box of varied warriors from multiple different worlds. It won't be the same as the fully themed armies they used to have in metal, but its an affordable way to give the visual diversity in plastic without creating dozens of "so similar" armies.
Overread wrote: Seraphon are fine, especially with the evolution of their lore shifting from being purely etherial armies summoned by Slaan mages, into armies of living flesh and blood Seraphon lizards settling and building kingdoms in the realms
Cities does have a bit of a disconnect because humans in the lore are very very steam punk and yet Cities has very little of that going on. I think Cities is one faction that might end up with the most change over time.
Cities has a disconnect because it's like the Imperial Guard now: So many disparate entities crammed into one spot. There's no restrictions as to what can be taken in which City. They lacked the fortitude to actually make a hard call and let everybody get everything.
Living City should have been restricted to Wanderers, Freeguild, and Dispossessed--as an example. But they didn't do that. So they cut units out to avoid 'overlap' rather than just actively restricting things. We're restricted on what Relic or Command Trait. Heck, we're restricted as to what Realm we have to take for the Cities! What would have been the harm in restricting the units?
Yep I honestly really love how GW did Slaves to Darkness. Instead of 10 slightly different themed armies they've done one core army and then added flavour with the warbands. Throw in a few leaders like the Darkoath Queen and you've got a fantastic way to represent the diversity. Players can then use paint and conversions to give their chaos warriors some hints of their heritage if they want. Whilst one can debate the value of their rules and variation, I think flavour wise its great.
Would be better if they'd stop trying to push the nonsense of 'everything's one big unit, permanently!' though and each of the items within the box actually got to fulfill the roles they do in WarCry or Underworlds.
Because yeah, we could have things even better. Each box effectively is 3-4 'Heroes' just jammed into one unit and given generic unit statlines rather than the respect they should be getting.
It's a way I could see them doing Imperial Guard in time - give them a core of units that are universal and then add in a single box of varied warriors from multiple different worlds. It won't be the same as the fully themed armies they used to have in metal, but its an affordable way to give the visual diversity in plastic without creating dozens of "so similar" armies.
So is actually locking what each regiment has access to. People want to play Catachans or Tallarn or <insert sneaky regiment here>? No Infantry Squads for you, you just get the Skirmisher Light Infantry set that gets bonuses in cover but has less armor...instead you get capes and stuff! Woo! Want to play Cadians or Vostroyans or one of the other disciplined, armored regiments? Good news, Infantry Squads for you! Death Korps or Valhallans? uhoh, you get Conscript Squads! Less armor--but you don't care, your guys are just gonna die anyways!
What would have been the harm in restricting the units?
It would remove the flexibility and make things more difficult for people who want to do their own cities. No one is forcing yo to take units that you feel are thematically inappropriate for your city.
I've been picking up warbands piecemeal as modeling pieces, but this is the one where I like the the starter warbands enough to buy the starter for myself.
Overread wrote: Seraphon are fine, especially with the evolution of their lore shifting from being purely etherial armies summoned by Slaan mages, into armies of living flesh and blood Seraphon lizards settling and building kingdoms in the realms
Cities does have a bit of a disconnect because humans in the lore are very very steam punk and yet Cities has very little of that going on. I think Cities is one faction that might end up with the most change over time.
Bit off there, *some* Cities are very steampunk. Others less so, others still not at all. Generalizing Cities of Sigmar isn't a good idea from the onset due to the nature of the faction, but to say that they are steampunk is certainly incorrect. Hell the Living City is pretty much the opposite of steampunk! The reality is CoS run the whole spectrum from non-steampunk up to walking clockwork fortresses.
For some reason that feels a bit out of place. Maybe because that faction consists of so many legacy models, it's hard for me to square with the new setting. Seraphon feel a bit off for the same reason.
Yes.. I don't feel the Cities of Sigmar fit at all with the whole AoS concept at the moment. That might change with future releases but you just have such a massive gap between the high-fantasy lunacy of AoS and then some guys that look like they have been lifted from 15th century Europe and placed into that environment. I keep thinking of the Legends of the Painty Men podcast where the Prussian pikeman is marching along and then a giant demonic nutsack teleports directly in front of him
DaveC wrote: Catacombs "might" be an October release as there is a Black Library book releasing then and these usually release along side the main release.
Good to see another warcry book. The anthology was largely a very good read. I didn't see this author among those who contributed to the anthology though, and havent read anything by him before. The messianic macguffin mentioned in the description doesnt sound very compelling at first blush.
I dunno what stories are contained within this installment of Inferno, but the cover image is that of the Corvus Cabal. So maybe at least one new warcry short story?
Or maybe its just a random unrelated cool picture they put on the cover of their short story anthology...
I dunno what stories are contained within this installment of Inferno, but the cover image is that of the Corvus Cabal. So maybe at least one new warcry short story?
Or maybe its just a random unrelated cool picture they put on the cover of their short story anthology...
There is a Warcry story in that volume, but its about a Spire Tyrant with Corvus Cabal as the antagonists. I reviewed it when it was available digitally, months ago:
Sarouan wrote: The faction in this WD is actually Cities of Sigmar: Hammerhal.
So apparently, it's meant to be a typical warband for Hammerhal. Makes sense it's so focused on freeguild supported by a few aelves and duardins.
Indeed. Though for people wishing to do other cities I would note that the race/culture of the figure does not matter in a rules sense; using a phoenix guard instead of a black guard works fine, a sister of the watch could stand in for a crossbowman, and so on. Not ideal but it's something.
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lord_blackfang wrote: I don't know why it would be absurd, but it's definitely a gakky phoned in faction.
Having looked through the rules, I disagree. There is a good balance between the different options and what they can do on the battlefield, while the abilities are useful without being overpowered. There was definitely some thought that went into this.
Im kind of glad they are doing rules for cities of sigmar. More options are generally a good thing.
With just about every other fantasy faction out of the way, we can see resources dedicated to new factions, in the same vein as khainite shadowstalkers.
The article in wd 355 about giving you explicit permission to tweak the rules a bit and even show you how to make your own rules for a certain model are very welcome.
I see far too many people get in the trap of only using rules as outlined by "official" sources. So being "officially" allowed to be creative is something i shall be pointing other towards in a gam3 that, in the same article, they admit was built for narrative purposes, first and foremost.
This is a good very good skirmish engine, and the simplicity should encourage others to tweak things to suit their collection.
This cities of sigmar article is a very good example of such. Because there are going to be a lot of people dissapointed that x unit wasnt included. Well, use the handy dandy unit card generator and have fun man.
Hellfury wrote: The article in wd 355 about giving you explicit permission to tweak the rules a bit and even show you how to make your own rules for a certain model are very welcome.
I see far too many people get in the trap of only using rules as outlined by "official" sources. So being "officially" allowed to be creative is something i shall be pointing other towards in a gam3 that, in the same article, they admit was built for narrative purposes, first and foremost.
I hear what you're saying, but I think it's reasonable to expect that the game would provide you with what you need to play. Not a disagreement or attack, just starting a conversation. Also, my sense is that there is an abundance of options for Warcry warbands; I have two or three builds for my Splintered Fang warband, getting a lot of variation out of only about twelve or fifteen models. I think, for this specific game, GW has done a good job of providing a lot of options to make interesting lists. I don't think we really need official unofficial rules. I think that's for a very specific group of players; when I started gaming as a kid (about 9 or 10 I think) we made up rules all the time, that's just part of how we had fun. Today, my regular gaming group freely uses house rules when we find them appropriate, although only when the game as it is doesn't work (ask me about how we play EVO: Second Edition, because I'm sure everyone's dying for that bit of information).
I agree with what you're saying about it being a narrative game; in 85% of the missions, more mobile warbands win, in 15% off missions, more durable warbands win. And it goes quickly, so it's always felt like a beer and pretzels game. I don't think I'd be looking for more work on my end to make new rules and models; for me personally, I want to be able to grab a couple models of my shelf, and say "let's see how these guys do together." I'd rather spend time crafting rules for an upcoming RPG session or similar.
Don Qui Hotep 773413 wrote:I don't think we really need official unofficial rules. I think that's for a very specific group of players; when I started gaming as a kid (about 9 or 10 I think) we made up rules all the time, that's just part of how we had fun. Today, my regular gaming group freely uses house rules when we find them appropriate, although only when the game as it is doesn't work...
I agree that its not for everyone one. But sometimes when you play a game a lot, you reach a wall in being able to explore the game as set out in the original design.
And its stupid that we as a gaming community need it, but this same community largely eschews the mere concept of diverging from the official writ, as has been bestowed by the numinous ivory tower. And for creative hobbies like this, thats a rather large shame. But thats more of a societal psychology rathet than any issues with the game itself.
And luckily, with the exception of some random combinations of missions/deployment/twist cards that make for not very good games, it largely does work.
Its just nice to have such creativity acknowledged, and allowed to occur, because it makes it easier to suggest such creative changes for the sake of engaging narrative to other players.
Do you want to have some dwarves become the random monsters encountered in the ancient duardin city your skirmish takes place on? "Sure buddy, and here's a rough template to use to make that work. Have fun, kid!"
Want a couple of endless spells to stand in as proxies for some random encounters? Not a problem, in fact thats a good idea, please do it and let us know how it works.
It actually nurtures community. A term we use often but seem to have forgotten the definition of what a healthy, functioning community is and does.
Again, its more of an endictment against how insular and curmudgeonly many gaming communities are, but ots little things like this that are needed for games such as Warcry. It also helps the players not take themselves so darn seriously too, which is another trap that is easy to fall into when you drop serious money and your own precious time into the models in order to play.
Really play, and not just lip service to the word 'play'.
Hellfury wrote: Want a couple of endless spells to stand in as proxies for some random encounters? Not a problem, in fact thats a good idea, please do it and let us know how it works.
It actually nurtures community. A term we use often but seem to have forgotten the definition of what a healthy, functioning community is and does.
Again, its more of an endictment against how insular and curmudgeonly many gaming communities are, but ots little things like this that are needed for games such as Warcry. It also helps the players not take themselves so darn seriously too, which is another trap that is easy to fall into when you drop serious money and your own precious time into the models in order to play.
Really play, and not just lip service to the word 'play'.
That's a really good point; I underestimated how important it is to set the tone. I've mostly been playing smaller scale games lately, so I haven't felt plugged into a particular gaming "community" for a while. A healthy community will take its cues from the creative intent of the game (if it's well designed etc. etc.).
Hand-picked agents of Morathi, Khainite Shadowstalkers are each branded with the shademark, a sorcerous pact that grants its bearer supernatural abilities while binding their souls to the Shadow Queen’s eternal servitude. Able to dart from shadow to shadow and land a killing stroke in the blink of an eye, Shadowstalkers are master assassins all.
Khainite Shadowstalkers can utilise the arcane pathways of the Umbral Web to travel vast distances in an instant, making it possible to hunt their prey regardless of where they might seek to hide. To be marked for death by the Shadowstalkers is to be doomed to die without warning, for few of their quarries ever see the danger coming before it’s too late.
The boldest of the Shadowstalkers even forge pacts with shadow daemons, becoming one with the darkness and bleeding nought but abyssal nothingness when cut. These deadly hybrids can even command the shadows of their prey to do their bidding, throttling their owner or stabbing them in the back with blades formed from their own twilight reflection.
First mention of the Umbral Web. And dang is it a good one!
More hints and teases about shadow daemons as well. I could be wrong, but I think we see one on the art of one of the Beastgrave cards.
Edit: Beastgrave has quite a few Shadow-y daemons.
They don't fit thematically at all I don't think, think it's similar to the situation in AoS where it's an attempt to shoe-horn in a medley of miniatures from WHFB. You've got all of this absolutely nuts, psychedelic high-fantasy of lizard dream-people and fish elves, fighting on the nexus points of chaos, suddenly along comes Herman the trusty Lansraad Halberdier?
It might be for people who have them in their miniature range already and just want a chance to play Warcry, but I don't know why anyone else would want to play them.
Every high fantasy setting I can think of still has regular troops with swords and such. Heck Malazan Book of the Fallen features large armies of regular troops. Heck look at 40K the average guardsman has a laser pointer to go to battle with and they use WW1 style tanks.
Also the more we see of the Shadow realm and Shadow armies (Morathi and hints at Malarion's) the more it seems that the Shadow Realm is the Realms "Demonic" realm. Allowing for demonic creatures of a realm that isn't from Chaos itself. Which is an itneresting take, but does fit as there's a realm of Light with angelic creatures and a realm of Death etc..
Overread wrote: Every high fantasy setting I can think of still has regular troops with swords and such. Heck Malazan Book of the Fallen features large armies of regular troops. Heck look at 40K the average guardsman has a laser pointer to go to battle with and they use WW1 style tanks.
Also the more we see of the Shadow realm and Shadow armies (Morathi and hints at Malarion's) the more it seems that the Shadow Realm is the Realms "Demonic" realm. Allowing for demonic creatures of a realm that isn't from Chaos itself. Which is an itneresting take, but does fit as there's a realm of Light with angelic creatures and a realm of Death etc..
Agreed - its the same way the Warhammer Old World had both people desperatly fighting off a few skaven in a sewer but also god like figures or even actual gods- sometimes even in the same book (see Gotrek and Felix)
Be cool if they actually have the Shadow Deamons (that apparently Morathi disports herself with) - either as manifestiations of the Realm of Ulgu or something else.
I think the idea of shadow deamons is pretty cool. For dark elves, i think they fit quite well thematically. For funky aos dark elves from Ulgu, the literal realm of shadow, even more so.
Even if they never make models for them, im definitely making a counts as model to sub in as needed.
Thats one of the beautiful things about warcry. Putting a counts as models for a merc or monster or whatever works really well, especially when you use the custom fighter profile creator.
Probably the easiest and laziest model in the history of gw to paint. Take any model you like, and give it some Rattlecan black. Bam!
4 new books coming 1 for each Grand Alliance - Looks like Cities of Sigmar is getting expanded as there is a Demigryph Knight, Wild Rider, Dreadspear and Sister of the Watch in the video.
Let's face it : most of the content of these books will be recycled content. Sure, there may be a few more additions, but the core we already know from previous card packs and Tomes of Champion will be making most of the space of them.
And that's the preview for Warcry, guys !
Ah, am I glad to have dropped that joke of a game, really. I will laugh even harder if the profiles for the non-AoS warbands aren't inside the Chaos great alliance book.
I don’t really like the direction Warcry is going. I much preferred the game when it was entirely distinct warbands rather than just porting in AoS stuff.
ImAGeek wrote: I don’t really like the direction Warcry is going. I much preferred the game when it was entirely distinct warbands rather than just porting in AoS stuff.
The 'porting in AoS stuff' happened at the outset. We launched with several factions that weren't Chaos in there.
ImAGeek wrote: I don’t really like the direction Warcry is going. I much preferred the game when it was entirely distinct warbands rather than just porting in AoS stuff.
The 'porting in AoS stuff' happened at the outset. We launched with several factions that weren't Chaos in there.
This is just a super weird comment in my opinion.
Okay, I preferred the idea of it when we were finding out about it, and it seemed to just be Chaos. Pardon me for my super weird comment. The fact that the game has continued down that path so much is disappointing to me.
I’m pretty sure the cards for other armies came a bit after release, but I could be wrong.
Besides being an asinine way to charge twice for the same content, the books defeat the whole purpose of the card format. If they're going full books, they should dispense with the cards, icons and all that jazz and give normal profiles that can be written out on a roster. Having to flip through a book for a page of "cards" and a different page with your damn icon key is presidential-debate-level-dumb.
ImAGeek wrote: I don’t really like the direction Warcry is going. I much preferred the game when it was entirely distinct warbands rather than just porting in AoS stuff.
The 'porting in AoS stuff' happened at the outset. We launched with several factions that weren't Chaos in there.
This is just a super weird comment in my opinion.
Okay, I preferred the idea of it when we were finding out about it, and it seemed to just be Chaos. Pardon me for my super weird comment. The fact that the game has continued down that path so much is disappointing to me.
I’m pretty sure the cards for other armies came a bit after release, but I could be wrong.
The disconnect is that there was a sizeable second wave of releases...which also tied with the big beasties(mindstealer, fomoroid, myrmidon) for Chaos plus the arena themed folks, but since that one was smaller for Chaos it felt more heavily 'other'.
ImAGeek wrote: I don’t really like the direction Warcry is going. I much preferred the game when it was entirely distinct warbands rather than just porting in AoS stuff.
I agree with you. I preferred Warcry as a chaos specific game. The other stuff always did and still did just feel bolted on.
Warcry was clearly going to be Chaos Only and then got hijacked into "Kilteam for AoS" and I don't mind that one bit.
Because think on it, if it was just Slaves to Darkness then unless they went full Necromunda style with it; then we'd already have everything for Warcry in 6 or 9 or so warbands. It would fizzle out fairly fast.
Instead its drawn in other armies and tomorrow it seems we'll see the first of a core army getting a core warband of its own - Daughters of Khaine.
Those are a very, very easy pass for me. They couldn't even manage to balance the original non-chaos warbands, so the chance of there not being a bunch of game breaking mistakes in these books is near zero.
I'll stick to the base game, which is one of GW's best efforts in years.
Mr Morden wrote: Interested to see whats in them - but concerned its going to be little more than reprints.
Hopefully more than just Nighthaunts in the Nagash book.
They're called "Grand Alliance" books. They've said for a long time they were looking for a way to make it so that those who missed out on cards could get rules for the non-Chaos factions(which have theirs in their boxed sets).
This seems to be how. Also would not be shocked if we see the Grand Alliance books accompanied by discount boxes for some of the other factions with mixed sprues and cards in them, ala the SC Vanguard, Nighthaunt, Gloomspite, etc ones we saw.
Bah, it's not really the fact AoS factions are swarming Warcry - what's making this preview more than underwhelming is that it's recycled content.
They're talking about background tables, quests, challenge battles, profiles for AoS factions...mind you, those were already there in White Dwarf articles and previous Tomes of Champion and card packs. Sure, there will be some new additions here and there, a few challenge battles nobody cares about and such, but let's be clear : most of these books will be something we already know and play with in Warcry.
This is just good for new players. They can have multiple card packs in just one book (even if they don't really care to play them all).
And yes, books with profiles inside...what was the point then to use cards with icons rather than the usual characteristics in good old language ? It was solely to make you buy the cards in addition. Now ? There is no coherence anymore.
Bet the profiles for the "core" chaos warbands and the khainite stalkers won't be inside the books. Because, you know, GW has to make people buy the kits and starter boxes after all.
Otherwise, I expect the books to follow closely the release of the starter box, if they are not sold the same week. It's basically the Tome of Champion 2020, but divided in 4 books...more books for the book throne ! More money for the money god !
Kanluwen wrote: The core Chaos warbands and Khainite Shadowstalkers are designed for WarCry...the Grand Alliance stuff isn't.
So what ? They're still part of an Alliance. They can be put in the books as well. But I bet they won't, and it's not because they're "designed for Warcry" - it's because so that people buy the Warcry boxes, instead of the AoS "double" boxes that are cheaper, so that they have rules to play them.
Also, you understand that the "profiles" were those cards with icons right? The icons represent the characteristics.
And I'm saying the reason they were used is because they wanted to sell the cards apart.
They could have put the profiles in books from the beginning and use no icon (especially those who are misleading because they're way too similar...cf the Leader and Champion runemarks).
But no. It was to sell those accessories.
Now that they're using books to put the profiles inside ? It's just a slap to the customers. Those who own the cards and previous books will buy a book just to have the few new additions in a sea of recycled content. Yay.
They could have put the profiles in books from the beginning
And give you the book for free?
For starters let's just keep it at "don't charge us twice for the same thing" okay? Baby steps.
Then don't buy it?
If it's collected material, as is being discussed here as speculation, then the people who would be "getting charged twice" will already have it.
This isn't hard to puzzle out people. The cards went out of stock. People complained that they did. Remember that the cards were an international product, not a localized one.
Another great sue with the cards was retailers had to buy a mixed box of them so after launch many dud the buy more boxes as certain factions didn't sell well.
Kan, I think you know as well as I do that there will be 10% new content that will be effectively required for normal play and not available elsewhere. Same as when they put in one extra card with the Gloomspite faction box.
lord_blackfang wrote: Kan, I think you know as well as I do that there will be 10% new content that will be effectively required for normal play and not available elsewhere. Same as when they put in one extra card with the Gloomspite faction box.
By linking some of the old stuff I see you're cleverly avoiding his complaint that the book will potentially include book-exclusive material in an attempt to have players re-buy a whole heap of old stuff in a package with comparatively little new stuff.
lord_blackfang wrote: Kan, I think you know as well as I do that there will be 10% new content that will be effectively required for normal play and not available elsewhere. Same as when they put in one extra card with the Gloomspite faction box.
JWBS wrote: By linking some of the old stuff I see you're cleverly avoiding his complaint that the book will potentially include book-exclusive material in an attempt to have players re-buy a whole heap of old stuff in a package with comparatively little new stuff.
lord_blackfang wrote: Kan, I think you know as well as I do that there will be 10% new content that will be effectively required for normal play and not available elsewhere. Same as when they put in one extra card with the Gloomspite faction box.
It's not like they needed to incentivize the sale of the box either. It was $50 for a good spread of items.
You really don't need to try to defend GW on this one, you know. Avoiding the core of our complaints doesn't do anything as well.
Just aknowledge the truth : these books are recycled contents, and GW trying to pass it as something worthy of a preview is ridiculous.
They didn't try to hide it. There's no "truth" to acknowledge, you're not deciphering the Da Vinci Code here.
And contrary to people like yourself suggesting this isn't "worthy of a preview", this actually is notable in that it's happening and shows continued support for those factions that are currently locked in ePubs or card formats that aren't still sold.
JWBS wrote: By linking some of the old stuff I see you're cleverly avoiding his complaint that the book will potentially include book-exclusive material in an attempt to have players re-buy a whole heap of old stuff in a package with comparatively little new stuff.
Then don't buy it?
This isn't a difficult situation to rectify.
Oh I'm 100% absolutely not going to buy it, just as with 90% of the other stuff they've released. The bands I did buy I bought for the models, since I don't play the games. Still, to any impartial observer (like myself), "Just don't buy it" is an entirely inadequate counterpoint to the complaint from someone that's invested in the game of "This is a shoddy move". I'd go as far as to say it's a super fething weak response tbh. (edit - this is if they add a few pages of exclusives to the book ofc. If they don't do that, I agree, the book is better than the cards, and if the entirety of the book is just what's been done with the cards, it's better for existing players to have the option).
Oh I'm 100% absolutely not going to buy it, just as with 90% of the other stuff they've released. The bands I did buy I bought for the models, since I don't play the games. Still, to any impartial observer (like myself), "Just don't buy it" is an entirely inadequate counterpoint to the complaint from someone that's invested in the game of "This is a shoddy move". I'd go as far as to say it's a super fething weak response tbh. (edit - this is if they add a few pages of exclusives to the book ofc. If they don't do that, I agree, the book is better than the cards, and if the entirety of the book is just what's been done with the cards, it's better for existing players to have the option).
Then what the hell is the point of you posting these hypotheticals?
People complained that there's too many 'sources' of rules. This alleviates that.
As long as the books aren't unreasonably priced, this isn't a huge deal to anyone but the "BUT GW!" crowd.
Oh I'm 100% absolutely not going to buy it, just as with 90% of the other stuff they've released. The bands I did buy I bought for the models, since I don't play the games. Still, to any impartial observer (like myself), "Just don't buy it" is an entirely inadequate counterpoint to the complaint from someone that's invested in the game of "This is a shoddy move". I'd go as far as to say it's a super fething weak response tbh. (edit - this is if they add a few pages of exclusives to the book ofc. If they don't do that, I agree, the book is better than the cards, and if the entirety of the book is just what's been done with the cards, it's better for existing players to have the option).
Then what the hell is the point of you posting these hypotheticals?
People complained that there's too many 'sources' of rules. This alleviates that.
As long as the books aren't unreasonably priced, this isn't a huge deal to anyone but the "BUT GW!" crowd.
That's how these public forums for people chatting online work Bud. I can also go and give my views on the tax system in Bavaria somewhere if I so wish, despite not living in Bavaria or being beholden to Bavarian tax laws.
Nah I'm just talking about GW products online with fellow enthusiasts. I'll be mindful in future to consider your superior approach though. I'm sure all 50k of your contributions over the years have been of a higher standard than my average and I'll try to aim higher.
I'm happy to see them. As someone with a smattering of different factions having to get card packs for all of them was not something I wanted to do. Plus there is the slim but possible chance they use the opportunity to rebalance some options, and the likelyhood of adding new ones.
I like that the various AoS factions are getting Warcry support, I would just prefer they take it slower so they have more time to balance things and add depth.
I hope those rules are basically just a stop-gap until a time when those factions get dedicated warbands.
Honestly, given how amazing the warcry models are in comparison to almost all regular AoS stuff, its just visually disappointing to see the stuff ported over from AoS on the table.
I totally get what you're talking about, but I also find it inspires people to convert and customize their miniatures since they need only a single squad each individual gets more love.
Overread wrote:Every high fantasy setting I can think of still has regular troops with swords and such. Heck Malazan Book of the Fallen features large armies of regular troops. Heck look at 40K the average guardsman has a laser pointer to go to battle with and they use WW1 style tanks.
Also the more we see of the Shadow realm and Shadow armies (Morathi and hints at Malarion's) the more it seems that the Shadow Realm is the Realms "Demonic" realm. Allowing for demonic creatures of a realm that isn't from Chaos itself. Which is an itneresting take, but does fit as there's a realm of Light with angelic creatures and a realm of Death etc..
It might be just a personal thing then. It's funny I'm absolutely fine with the example of a 40k guardsman (although perhaps even that doesn't fit as well as it once did? The setting was much more mundane and low-fi originally and has gradually become more extravagant as time has gone on).
But, for me, the renaissance-era pikeman going up against something like the below, it makes it look like someone has plonked down miniatures from two different gaming systems (or I'm being half-arsed or trying to save money and just trying to use my historicals army for everything?)
Spoiler:
I was hoping that they would eventually move away from those old sculpts (you've blown up that world, people have burned their armies and hate you, move on) and come up with some 'standard' human that is more in keeping with the AoS world? I'm sure the designers would love to get their teeth into that and come up with concepts for it.
Overread wrote:Every high fantasy setting I can think of still has regular troops with swords and such. Heck Malazan Book of the Fallen features large armies of regular troops. Heck look at 40K the average guardsman has a laser pointer to go to battle with and they use WW1 style tanks.
Also the more we see of the Shadow realm and Shadow armies (Morathi and hints at Malarion's) the more it seems that the Shadow Realm is the Realms "Demonic" realm. Allowing for demonic creatures of a realm that isn't from Chaos itself. Which is an itneresting take, but does fit as there's a realm of Light with angelic creatures and a realm of Death etc..
It might be just a personal thing then. It's funny I'm absolutely fine with the example of a 40k guardsman (although perhaps even that doesn't fit as well as it once did? The setting was much more mundane and low-fi originally and has gradually become more extravagant as time has gone on).
But, for me, the renaissance-era pikeman going up against something like the below, it makes it look like someone has plonked down miniatures from two different gaming systems (or I'm being half-arsed or trying to save money and just trying to use my historicals army for everything?)
Spoiler:
I was hoping that they would eventually move away from those old sculpts (you've blown up that world, people have burned their armies and hate you, move on) and come up with some 'standard' human that is more in keeping with the AoS world? I'm sure the designers would love to get their teeth into that and come up with concepts for it.
That doesn't really make any sense to me. Those are exactly the type of thing the renaissance era pikeman in Warhammer have been fighting for 30 years, just with better sculpts.
They didn't try to hide it. There's no "truth" to acknowledge, you're not deciphering the Da Vinci Code here.
The "problem" here is you deflecting all the time and not wanting to address the issue of our complaints. That's why I wrote this.
And contrary to people like yourself suggesting this isn't "worthy of a preview", this actually is notable in that it's happening and shows continued support for those factions that are currently locked in ePubs or card formats that aren't still sold.
That I aknowledge, but let's be honest : the bar is put really low if we're just glad to have this as a preview for Warcry, seriously.
Where are the true expansions, the new ways to play ? A new narrative, another place to discover ? Catacombs was at least showing a bit of that, but these books don't. So that we have this after Catacombs...you have to recognize it's a bit underwhelming, even for a Warcry hardcore fanboy.
It would have been more exciting to know more about what is coming next after Catacombs, not "here are profiles you already know to play your AoS factions in 4 books".
I like that the various AoS factions are getting Warcry support, I would just prefer they take it slower so they have more time to balance things and add depth.
Come on, Ninth, we already can play the various AoS factions in Warcry right now. These books change nothing about this, it's just a compilation. I'll remind you that the AoS Profiles are already put in the previous Tomes of Champion, with their personnal quests and background tables.
By the way, when they did, GW didn't rebalance the profiles at that time. Why would they do this for the new books ? Sure, we can wait and see, but I think having faith in something GW never did before is just asking for disappointment,
They'll just add new profiles for some missing fighters and monsters, put some new challenge battles and fated quests, and it'll be enough for them. Mind you, I don't believe it will fill more than 25% of the books' content. The rest will be just copy and paste.
In the end, these 4 books are the Tome of Champion 2020, if you think about it. They're just not named that way, and they're divided in 4. So you have to buy 4 books instead of 1 to have everything...
They could have put the profiles in books from the beginning
And give you the book for free?
why not? Honestly, their business is selling you toy soldiers and accessories, they could afford to make all the rules free and still make hefty profit. I'm touched by how people look out for the corporations' best interests
Overread wrote:Every high fantasy setting I can think of still has regular troops with swords and such. Heck Malazan Book of the Fallen features large armies of regular troops. Heck look at 40K the average guardsman has a laser pointer to go to battle with and they use WW1 style tanks.
Also the more we see of the Shadow realm and Shadow armies (Morathi and hints at Malarion's) the more it seems that the Shadow Realm is the Realms "Demonic" realm. Allowing for demonic creatures of a realm that isn't from Chaos itself. Which is an itneresting take, but does fit as there's a realm of Light with angelic creatures and a realm of Death etc..
It might be just a personal thing then. It's funny I'm absolutely fine with the example of a 40k guardsman (although perhaps even that doesn't fit as well as it once did? The setting was much more mundane and low-fi originally and has gradually become more extravagant as time has gone on).
But, for me, the renaissance-era pikeman going up against something like the below, it makes it look like someone has plonked down miniatures from two different gaming systems (or I'm being half-arsed or trying to save money and just trying to use my historicals army for everything?)
Spoiler:
I was hoping that they would eventually move away from those old sculpts (you've blown up that world, people have burned their armies and hate you, move on) and come up with some 'standard' human that is more in keeping with the AoS world? I'm sure the designers would love to get their teeth into that and come up with concepts for it.
That doesn't really make any sense to me. Those are exactly the type of thing the renaissance era pikeman in Warhammer have been fighting for 30 years, just with better sculpts.
There has been a massive change of concept and style between WHFB and AoS. Previously WHFB was rooted in low-fantasy, Tolkein-esque ranks of Elves, Dwarves and Orcs and Goblins which were fantastical but of a similar theme to the pikemen the were fighting against. You did have some far-out concepts in WHFB but for the most part they were based in a pseudo-historical format, compared to the fish-elves with flying sharks, bone people made of bone constructs, lizard people living within their own dream and other lunacy of AoS that you need to be on a cocktail of goblin mushrooms to fully appreciate.
Maybe they could mount these guys on flying carpets or horses with sheep heads or something and they might fit better, but for now it just looks like they are in some kind of horrible acid-trip nightmare and are probably crying as they poke their halberd at a flying turtle that has come to get them (it's actually a cow in a field)
Old World was very low magic Tolkien style on the tabletop for the main game. However at the same time you had Man O War; you had artwork showing huge airships and titanic weapons. You had stories where Chaos used demons and living siege towers; greater monsters and horrors and spells and all.
The disconnect was mostly because back in the days of metal GW couldn't make really big stuff - heck most of their dragons back them were very serpentine to cut down on body-size because, agian, you couldn't make a huge brick of a dragon out of metal and have people buy it.
AoS has taken some concepts to 11/ludicrous speed however when you look at the core compositions of most armies they are fairly "normal"
AoS has taken some concepts to 11/ludicrous speed however when you look at the core compositions of most armies they are fairly "normal"
I disagree entirely with this tbh. Even the most basic of common or garden fantasy staples is amped up to 12 once it's been ported to AoS. Orcs (Orruks) encased head to toe in hugely oversized full body armour suits, Dwarves that literally eat burning embers. Not that I don't like it (I'm a fan of more conventional fantasy too but that has benn done then redone then redone again so many times now), but it's a very deliberate left turn towards something more bizarre and surreal and it shows very obviously.
And yet it you look at many armies they aren't that fantastical.
Ossiarchs go to war with spears and swords; Flesheaters are just ghouls who often have nothing but a bone club for a weapon; Lumineth are spears and hammers;
Orks had super thick armour in the Old World, heck its staple that your average ork is either almost naked save for scraps or is head to toe a mountain of metal. Dwarves are much the same.
All the free cities need is some enchanted +10 weapons to survive. Heck the vast multitude of Chaos warriors are going to war with your most basic of standard weapons (granted armies like the Unmade graft them to their very hands with barbed wire wrapping)
Now hang on just a minute- every faction that has a long sword or greatsword on the end of pole isn't marching to war with a "spear"- they are over fantastical monstrosities.
I mead good grief when the Chaos knights are the most realistic cavalry around, there is an issue.
Agreed, imo Overread is comparing the "mundane" elements of AoS with with the more fantastical elements of other benchmark fantasy realms, and even then the AoS baseline is whatever the other universe is, +2. (not that I would characterise this as a problem though, as I say I can appreciate it for what it is).
Well, I certainly didnt expect these four tomes, and was instead expecting a tome of champions for 2020. I wonder if we will get that now?
I actually like this idea, at least in theory. Mostly because I was looking at the mess of sorting through three different tomes for campaign rules, warband profiles, merc profiles, etc. and was conetemplating just consolidating the entirety into a new document that has been reformatted as a much easier to reference and to read tome.
I do think the announced books carry with them some expectations. Such as tweaking some warband abilities and profiles for balance sake, adding in some more profiles (which allows us to use more of our collections and allows GW to sell more models).
Since each tome has "Rules for using monsters", one would hope there are more available than the one or two monsters each alliance had in the Monsters and Mercs book.
And because of that, new challenge battles to fight such beasties.
What I dont understand is fated quests and their role in the alliance books. Fated quests arent associated with a faction runemark, so the reason they would now be included in the alliance books is unclear to speculate upon with any degree of certainty, since their very nature is counterintuitive to include in specific roles, as they are meant to be broadly accomodating.
Either way, I hope each alliance has new challenge battles that are unique to each tome.
They mention that each tome contains 'profiles and fighter cards". Perhaps they now have cards we can photocopy from the books to use?
Say what you will about the cards and how GW distributed them, but if this is the case, then they are finally doing it right. Because: A) Youre not spending $10 for the incomplete rules for each warband (Mercs cards, etc) and B) they are tied to the reference book that you use for your games as needed. C) less SKU's for retailers to be forced to keep track of is always welcomed by them.
The cost to collect them all is gonna push around $25-$30 per tome, so thats gonna be pain in the wallet.
Despite that cost, I still hope we get a tome of champions for the year of nurgle's dominance. There is a lot of design space to explore for the game that isnt faction specific stuff.
Maybe what is included in the Catacombs set will fill that role? I guess we will find out sometime today.
Overread wrote: And yet it you look at many armies they aren't that fantastical.
Ossiarchs go to war with spears and swords; Flesheaters are just ghouls who often have nothing but a bone club for a weapon; Lumineth are spears and hammers;
Orks had super thick armour in the Old World, heck its staple that your average ork is either almost naked save for scraps or is head to toe a mountain of metal. Dwarves are much the same.
All the free cities need is some enchanted +10 weapons to survive. Heck the vast multitude of Chaos warriors are going to war with your most basic of standard weapons (granted armies like the Unmade graft them to their very hands with barbed wire wrapping)
I agree with you that the bulk of AOS armies are still low fantasy troops. That has always been a core aesthetic in WFB and AOS but now the monsters are really monstrous, Chaos is really chaotic and the Fey are really fantastical. What still discourages me from jumping into AOS is that GW's box contents and pricing never seem to match up with the game they seem to want me to play.
For example I have always enjoyed this WFB artwork:
Spoiler:
Human soldiers of the Empire battling monstrous River Trolls with their powers of regeneration and acid vomit. A trio of trolls versus a company of human soldiers would be a fun little skirmish in my opinion, Unfortunately GW doesn't sell companies of AOS humans, they sell boxes of 10 for $30. Humans are always going to be the baseline stats for a game like WFB or AOS, they should always be overmatched by the monsters but should be able to overwhelm monsters by outnumbering them and using sound tactics and discipline. A box of 3 River Trolls for $47 is OK with me, not the best deal but certainly far from the worst. If I wanted to fight that skirmish in AOS I'd have to spend $90 on 3 boxes of the weird looking heroic scale human troops to battle the one unit of monsters that cost half as much. What makes it really frustrating is that GW is happy to sell me a box of 24 Warriors of Rohan/Gondor for $42. While that's not as good a deal as historical boxes from a company like Gripping Beast, it's still good enough to make me happy. A box of nicely proportioned, plastic human warriors for MESBG gives me 8 with spear/shield, 8 with sword/shield and 8 archers, that's a nice little company that gives me tactical flexibility and a good number of troops. I would enjoy taking those 24 human troops (and maybe a generic leader) and fight a skirmish against a unit of trolls or other monsters. It strikes a balance for me, two units that should be roughly equal in points, tabletop performance and price. I don't understand why GW doesn't want to market AOS to gamers in that way.
It doesn't make any sense to sell humans for AOS in boxes of 10. No matter how good the sculpts are 10 humans are never going to be worth much on the tabletop unless the game becomes HeroHammer and each of the humans has special magical gear and/or abilities. That kind of RPG, adventure party, dungeon crawl kind of game can be a lot of fun too but that doesn't seem to be what GW wants AOS to be either. It's a problem with AOS and it was a problem with WFB, you need the basic core troops on the table to make the heroes heroic and the monsters monstrous but GW's pricing and rules really don't make the mix work well.
Compiling the currently fragmented rules is good thing. But with Warcry chasing the tail of the "main" AoS releases how long will it be until one of these books needs supplementary material or outright replacing?
Prestor - thing is you can say the same for most armies. Skaven in boxes of 20 when in reality chances are you'd want boxes of hundreds. Same for Tyranids in 40K - you'd want hundreds of gaunts or even Imperial Guard just to counter one or two Space Marines or Chaos Warriors.
The tabletop game has always had a degree of imbalance in unit representation and honestly it always will. Even computer games have to take liberties - even the fantastic Total War series games still have only a tiny number of actual troops on the map. You can really feel this in siege games where your army can't even attack nor really defend multiple wall segments and you couldn't envision an army surrounding a settlement or at least blocking off exit/entry from it. Even in Warhammer TW games which limit you to one wall segment you still really feel the limited number of troops.
Just remember those other faction starter sets are generic models already out for those armies not new sculpts. They do have cards and such inside so they'll be a good buy in if you don't collect those armies already, but with the new books and the card packs chances are if you've already got those models they'll be easier to use other supplements with existing models.
They are good to see as perhaps not every faction will get their own Warcry warband and even if they do it will take a while to get them all out; so these packs are really bringing the other armies in in that "One pack and go" approach that makes Warcry work as the "intro game" for AoS at the small scale. A welcome addition for newbies.
They never went away They are still on sale and some of the oldest plastics.
Inquisitor Gideon wrote:Damn, was really hoping the Shadowstalkers and Scions would have been seperate initially as well.
I think the last time we did this dance the warcry core packs took a few weeks/month or so to come on sale on their own. It wasn't a vast amount of time.
Interestingly looking at it again my gut feeling is this pack "should" be cheaper or at least equal in price. The last pack had a lot of terrain, two full warbands and wild beasts within it. This set appears to have a bit less terrain and no wild beasts.
Other nice part about these boxes is that they do act as 'mixed' boxes in some cases. They're not shying away from putting half-sets or the like in them.
Ironjawz - 5 Brutes 5 Ardboyz total separate cost £44.17
FEC - 3 Crypt Horrors/Courtiers 10 Ghouls total separate cost £42.50
Skaven - 2 Rat Ogres 3 Packmasters 6 Giant Rats 10 Clanrats? (hard to tell) total separate cost £37.50
Kharadron Overlords - 5 Thunderers 3 Endrinriggers - total separate cost £55
Oof. I would have hoped they would have replaced the rat ogres and friend by now. Those are fairly wretched models by current standards. They could have reissued the isle of blood rat ogres...
Those scions... I want to convert them. They've got a lot of potential, but the flames sort of let the rest of the models down. Individually they look like really great cultists and RPG minis.
The elves are impressive, but I want some close ups. Can't quite decide if they're too fiddly for me.
Voss wrote: Oof. I would have hoped they would have replaced the rat ogres and friend by now. Those are fairly wretched models by current standards. They could have reissued the isle of blood rat ogres...
Isle of Blood had lots of great sculpts - stuck on joint moulds with another army. It was a great set of new things; a disaster in terms of part sales.
Skaven do need a big update to their range, but we have to wait and see; a lot of AoS armies need similar updates (eg lizardmen) or they need a massive addition of models to add diversity.
More warcry miniature boxes is great, for warcry itself and for people building AoS armies given they offer a discount. Pretty happy to see those. The new dungeon boards look interesting too, nice to see theme diversity there. Now we just need a set of warcry dungeon walls & doors! Though in the meantime there are plenty of D&D options.
Overread wrote: Skaven do need a big update to their range, but we have to wait and see; a lot of AoS armies need similar updates (eg lizardmen) or they need a massive addition of models to add diversity.
Skaven are overdue for a release. They've got:
*An Underworld team
*A engineer with a doom rocket
*And an assassin from silver tower
*Oh, and endless spells/terrain
Though, admittedly, they've got one of the nice rangers. Plague monks and rat ogres are dated, but most of their plastic models are great
Im guessing right now tnis will be the same price. The buildings and barricades take up 4 sprues, and im sure those doors and scatter terrain take up another 2-3 sprues, equalling what came in the original starter.
And true to gw second round starters, they always come with less than the original starter contained.
So removing the chaotic beasts the oiginal had, and keep the price the same or slightly higher, and yo7 have the cost of catacombs. $170 or higher.
I do see a catacombs book along side the core rules, so we at least know there are more rules in store for this set and the game as a whole
The Board Pack looks like the images were designed for a square board originally and stretched to fit a rectangle.
The lava canal board in the main set looks good.
Overread wrote: Skaven do need a big update to their range, but we have to wait and see; a lot of AoS armies need similar updates (eg lizardmen) or they need a massive addition of models to add diversity.
I'd be all over a plastic Clan Skryre release
Love to see a army based around the new Ikrit / Ikit Klaw =- he was great in the Hamilcar novel and once again he has upgraded
Cogwork shock-vermin: Stormvermin clad in bronze armour, armed with shock halbards and able to execute devastating pre-programmed combat routines.
Micro-constructs: He has been able to create tiny machines that look like flecks of dust to the naked eye, these he can insert into a subject to examine its internal biological workings.
Realm Travelling Burrow: His stronghold-burrow-laboratory is able to travel through the Mortal Realms.
Warsuits: Giant suits of powered armour piloted by engineer
GaroRobe wrote: Skaven are overdue for a release. They've got:
*An Underworld team
*A engineer with a doom rocket
*And an assassin from silver tower
*Oh, and endless spells/terrain
Though, admittedly, they've got one of the nice rangers. Plague monks and rat ogres are dated, but most of their plastic models are great
Night Runners are fairly antique too; but the main issues they have are the metal/resin figures still in the range.
Anyway, that Skaven box sure makes it difficult to tell what the contents are. I know the little rat-men like to live in the shadows, but jeez, that's not a great picture. I think the box would have to include a full set of 20 clanrats though if the picture is supposed to be accurate: the shields and hand weapons (both of which are shown) are on separate sprues, each alongside 10 bodies. Depending on the price, it might be a decent purchase, even if the Rat Ogres are fairly hideous (and not in a good way). Ah, if only the Island of Blood Ogres were indeed available separately...
Gimgamgoo wrote: The Board Pack looks like the images were designed for a square board originally and stretched to fit a rectangle.
The lava canal board in the main set looks good.
Oh damn you're right. That's some Mantic-level mehgoodenoughism.
Looking at the picture of the Catacombs starter set, I notice there are no visual of the cards for generating randomly deployment zones, victory conditions, terrains and random events. So good chances they'll be not included.
Guess that will be replaced by the Catacomb book next to the core rules.
Well that's less than ideal. I like both warbands but I'm not sure the terrain and cardboard are worth the extra 80€ when I already have the old starter.
Schmapdi wrote: Whoever decided it was OK to put those Rat Ogres in a box in the year of our lord 2020 should be ashamed of themselves.
Those have go to be like, 25 years old at this point? And they look like poo. Is going to absolutely tank the sales of the Skaven box.
Thing is skaven don't really have many modern smaller infantry models in plastic. Plague Monks, Night Runners and Stormvermin are all older plastic kits of the same era as the Rat Ogres. Thing is the Rat Ogres also comes with Giant rats and handlers so suddenly its a more interesting and diverse box than just having two infantry groups included.
Sure the Ogres are darn ugly compared to modern sculpts, but its more diversity within the group which is likely more of a boon for Warcry.
Schmapdi wrote: Whoever decided it was OK to put those Rat Ogres in a box in the year of our lord 2020 should be ashamed of themselves.
Those have go to be like, 25 years old at this point? And they look like poo. Is going to absolutely tank the sales of the Skaven box.
Thing is skaven don't really have many modern smaller infantry models in plastic. Plague Monks, Night Runners and Stormvermin are all older plastic kits of the same era as the Rat Ogres. Thing is the Rat Ogres also comes with Giant rats and handlers so suddenly its a more interesting and diverse box than just having two infantry groups included.
Sure the Ogres are darn ugly compared to modern sculpts, but its more diversity within the group which is likely more of a boon for Warcry.
Stormvermin are absolutely not the same era as the others. They came the same time as the current clanrats, the screaming bell, etc.
ImAGeek wrote: So probably £125? So a 25% increase over the last one, which came out just over a year ago. For less stuff. Lovely.
Ugh. I want this, but idk if I £125 want this. Especially as there's the slaanesh vs DoK box coming soon, and presumably Christmas boxes. I wish I'd gotten the previous starter set now.
ImAGeek wrote: So probably £125? So a 25% increase over the last one, which came out just over a year ago. For less stuff. Lovely.
Ugh. I want this, but idk if I £125 want this. Especially as there's the slaanesh vs DoK box coming soon, and presumably Christmas boxes. I wish I'd gotten the previous starter set now.
I have regretted not getting the better value sets that come early when I see the subsequent pricehike/less content in later sets, however I've just started to ignore these too. And although I don't want to go off on a pricing rant, I do believe some of the recent prices have gone way too high
The game is fairly popular at my local store due to how casual and simple it is. We often get family members or friends who aren't into tabletop gaming coming along or filling in.
I'm surprised they went for such a steep entry point price to this sort of game, expecting around 120gbp.
One of the problems we come across is sometimes none of the people with the core set can come, yet lots of people have the warbands ready. SO we either houserule some stuff together with store terrain or dont play.
I'm sure they could have made a shorter rulebook or just included indoor terrain to get the price down. I don't see it selling that well.
I also find base sizes an issue if playing the original single board set. These door ways look like they wont fit a 40mm stormcast let alone any sort of elite/ small monster
I also find base sizes an issue if playing the original single board set. These door ways look like they wont fit a 40mm stormcast let alone any sort of elite/ small monster
They'll certainly use the same rules for doors in Warcry, ie if the base of a fighter allowed to pass through doors is bigger, they can still go if their move is enough.
Schmapdi wrote: Whoever decided it was OK to put those Rat Ogres in a box in the year of our lord 2020 should be ashamed of themselves.
Those have go to be like, 25 years old at this point? And they look like poo. Is going to absolutely tank the sales of the Skaven box.
Thing is skaven don't really have many modern smaller infantry models in plastic. Plague Monks, Night Runners and Stormvermin are all older plastic kits of the same era as the Rat Ogres. Thing is the Rat Ogres also comes with Giant rats and handlers so suddenly its a more interesting and diverse box than just having two infantry groups included.
Sure the Ogres are darn ugly compared to modern sculpts, but its more diversity within the group which is likely more of a boon for Warcry.
Stormvermin are absolutely not the same era as the others. They came the same time as the current clanrats, the screaming bell, etc.
Night Runners date back to Mordheim (so 1999 I guess), Rat Ogres and Plague Monks were released alongside the Lustria campaign (2005), and the Stormvermin are indeed from the same time as most other recent sets in their range, which would be 2009. Not only does everything from before the Clanrats/Stormvermin look dated, the basic Skaven physique was changed considerably with the 7th ed range, so the old sculpts don't fit in as well with these either.
Gimgamgoo wrote: The Board Pack looks like the images were designed for a square board originally and stretched to fit a rectangle.
The lava canal board in the main set looks good.
Oh damn you're right. That's some Mantic-level mehgoodenoughism.
Scrolled straight past that originally, but oof, that's bad. Or... maybe the chaotic worshippers are just really into ovals, and non-square rectangles. Yes, I'm sure that's what's going on. It's definitely not stretched to 133% of the original size in one dimension.
This is one portion of the board, viewed as it would be in packaging folded up. Looks like it's the upper right corner of the top board.
Spoiler:
This is an image of both sides of the boards fully laid out, likely just compression is screwing with it...alternative is that it just is copy/pasted from the actual art file.
lord_blackfang wrote: Betcha the two new warbands will also be 47,50 € to make the starter look better
New sku's gets steadily more expensive. If people expected to get same price as sku released year ago they were kidding themselves. Next year if they release new bands 50 limit likely broken
lord_blackfang wrote: Betcha the two new warbands will also be 47,50 € to make the starter look better
Not only the warbands, the extra book (I don't think the old starter came with two books), the terrain pieces and the board. I expect this box is going to save you about 60€ as compared to buying things individually. I'm totally out, the price is a murder for someone on my wage, even with a discount.
Using today's Euro to USD conversion rate, the Catacombs starter is $188.541, an Euro 47.50 warband is $55.97, and the Euro 55 warband is $64.8124. My earlier post about pricing was optimistic; while I knew it would not go down, I did not expect an increase on a comparatively young game, especially when discretionary spending is down for most people. That's a good way to boost a competitor's business.
Edit: Assuming that GW rounds to the nearest 5, Catacombs will be $190, Euro 47.50 warband will be $55, and the Kharadron warband will be $65.
So basically its a 10 percent price hike from last year. Edit# if that 210 dollar price is accurate, they can keep it. Id rather throw in a few extra bucks and buy the newest necromunda set for that price range.
What is a bracket system as applied to consumer goods? Looking up the term I found tournament brackets and a Tunisian pricing system intended to moderate water use.
Kanluwen wrote: You never do a 1:1 conversion. It doesn't work. Prices are set in advance and GW uses a bracket system, for all intents and purposes.
Hellfury wrote: So basically its a 10 percent price hike from last year. Edit# if that 210 dollar price is accurate, they can keep it. Id rather throw in a few extra bucks and buy the newest necromunda set for that price range.
Not just 10%. This has no beasts and less terrain (not obscenely less as I first thought, but definitely less).
The randomization of their price system strikes again.
I said 10 percent before the post about the cost being 210. This is closer to a 25 percent increase, minus the cards, a dozen models, half the building terrain. And we dont even know if the catacomb rules suck or not. For all we know, this could be arena for aos. Blech. Edit# if the catacomb rules suck half as bad as much of the new terrain seems to (the close ups arent doing them any favors here) then its almost actively repellent.
Ancestral Hamster wrote: What is a bracket system as applied to consumer goods? Looking up the term I found tournament brackets and a Tunisian pricing system intended to moderate water use.
Kanluwen wrote: You never do a 1:1 conversion. It doesn't work. Prices are set in advance and GW uses a bracket system, for all intents and purposes.
They have, effectively, set price brackets where they put items in. It has some variances within accounting for currency shifts but it encompasses some older stuff as well as new.
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