I wasn’t expecting the size difference between the Myrmidon and the Fomoroid to be that different. I’ll probably be picking up one of each, they’re all great. Sphiranx is the best though.
I'm glad the Fomoroid has two different builds. Both heads are cool and all the left arm holding the rock isn't great, the alternate chained hand is. I don't know what it reminds me of, but using its chains as weapons and a mace(?) gives me some of vibe.
I don't know why you aren't a mod yet, Dave. Did they show anything else not on Warhammer Community, or is that all for the moment? I got some Daemonettes, a Fiend and a few Blood Warriors, and I want some more info on them.
Also, WHY AREN'T THE UNDERWOLDS' CHAOS BANDS MADE INTO MERCENARIES YET?!?!?!
Probably part 1 of 2 as there's still the Fomoroid Crusher and Mindstealer Sphiranx plus 6 other card sets to go.
The Nighthaunt and GSG sets add exclusive rules for Banshees and Snufflers which is annoying if you already have them. Souldrain forest is a bit disappointing as well but at least if it holds to the £55 price then it's cheaper than 2 sets of trees at £60 plus you get a ruins sprue that's worth £12.50
I'm really interested in seeing the prices for these non-Chaos boxes. The Gloomspite box as shown already has $70 worth of miniatures so if the price is in line with the Warcry boxes that would be at least a $20 savings just on the miniatures alone.
Pretty odd. A box of squig hoppers, half a box of snufflers and the cards.
Still can't decide if I like the look of the new chaos warband. It looks like someone was redesigning marauders and got bored half-way through. Not sure 'leather straps' is really the aesthetic I want.
Shame they're not releasing the sphinx and Formorian alongside the chaos ogre. I guess sisters will get a two week break (at minimum)?
Ghaz wrote: I'm really interested in seeing the prices for these non-Chaos boxes. The Gloomspite box as shown already has $70 worth of miniatures so if the price is in line with the Warcry boxes that would be at least a $20 savings just on the miniatures alone.
If they hold the £30 price then
The GSG box is the same price as a box a Squighoppers so you get the 3 Snufflers for free plus the cards total separate cost £42.50
The Nighthaunt box is £33.75 of minis so smallest saving there
The SCE is £41.25 worth
This is A LOT of releases, I can’t imagine this will all drop next week? Still, very exciting! I hope the continue to reissue more terrain sets, as it gives me a great excuse to buy stuff I never got. Also digging the new ‘non-chaos’ sets. It really feels like they could do some fun stuff with that. I don’t want to go full tilt into a bone reapers army,but I’d love a few little sets of their nice figures.
skullking wrote: This is A LOT of releases, I can’t imagine this will all drop next week? Still, very exciting! I hope the continue to reissue more terrain sets, as it gives me a great excuse to buy stuff I never got. Also digging the new ‘non-chaos’ sets. It really feels like they could do some fun stuff with that. I don’t want to go full tilt into a bone reapers army,but I’d love a few little sets of their nice figures.
Just had a look at the Tome of Champions while there is only one entry for Disciples of Tzeentch there is an Arcanites entry and a Daemons entry on the name tables. Blades of Khorne and Maggotkin of Nurgle have the same but Slaanesh is only listed as Hedonites probably because they have no mortals at present so 2 card packs each (1 Mortals 1 Daemons) for Khorne and Nurgle isn't out of the question.
Also really hoping Ogors are another warband that can be built from a single box.
Overread wrote: Slaanesh has mortals, its just only cavalry models. So basically not as good to build a Warcry party out of.
Well Hellstriders being fused with their steed of Slaanesh
(they can't leave once they mount it) I guess they are not
technically "mortals" but I disgress...
It would be nice to have even a few Slaanesh dedicated mortals
through a Warcry warband this year for sure...
Did anyone else notice that in the nighthaunt warband there are tomb banshees and the gloomspite gitz have snufflers. If i’m not mistaken, they were not in the original card packs and i haven’t seen rules for them elseware. I’m wondering if the other original warbands will get extra units to add too, although the vanguard stormcasts dont sem to have anything new.
spartan059 wrote: Did anyone else notice that in the nighthaunt warband there are tomb banshees and the gloomspite gitz have snufflers. If i’m not mistaken, they were not in the original card packs and i haven’t seen rules for them elseware. I’m wondering if the other original warbands will get extra units to add too, although the vanguard stormcasts dont sem to have anything new.
Honestly, forcing people to buy a bunch of models they may already have just to get the card for it (presumably, up to a year before it is republished in Tome of Champions 2020), isn't a great move. It'll be scanned and posted within hours of release, so I don't know why GW is making it exclusive - except to piss off the people who like to have the cards. Taken to the extreme (Necromunda), a lack of card availability could be a serious detriment to the long term health and enjoyment of the game.
I had hoped that after the Kill Team Annual reprinted most of the exclusive missions and tactics, and Tome of Champions reprinted all the unit cards, that GW would have moved past this compulsion to break their games up into lots of little pieces and make it impossible for anyone to acquire them all - but I guess they've just decided that they need something for these annual books, so they might as well exploit you in between.
Chopstick wrote: Gloomspite git should have Stabba, the absolute backbone of the team... They aren't even expensive kit, just throw in a single sprue... geez
And hoppers/bounders are 200+ per model. There are well over 2,000 pts in the release.
spartan059 wrote: Did anyone else notice that in the nighthaunt warband there are tomb banshees and the gloomspite gitz have snufflers. If i’m not mistaken, they were not in the original card packs and i haven’t seen rules for them elseware.
You mean the thing that was explicitly called out in the article?
Am very interested to see the prices of those predetermined warbands, I assume they will all be the same RRP but they have quite different individual retail prices. The Ogroid pricing should also be an indicator of the two other, and bigger, beasties to come.
The spire tyrants grow on me every time I see them- the last sculpt of the guy with a shield and thrusting sword is awesome, and I'd get a set just for him, lol.
Of course, I really want to see what the scions of the flame look like..
Nice to see the Spire Tyrants will be available soon. I'm not so keen on most sculpts but there are a couple of really cool ones in the kit for which I want to get a box.
Danny76 wrote: The dwarf and the Beastman.
A few of the others are ok, but those two I really like
I quite like all of them except the guy with the big axe and the leader, who are posed very awkwardly (and have stupid faces, in the leaders case). The rest have grown on me a fair bit since we first saw them.
Danny76 wrote: The dwarf and the Beastman.
A few of the others are ok, but those two I really like
It's a pity we dont live nearer each other, as those are the two Im not very interested in. (Not because they aren't good mind, but I'm focused on a human force)
Spire tyrant is meh, no dual axe fighters, and either the leader or the big axe guy could've been a female, the 2 female one they have look bored, like sculptor just made them to meet the quota.
Chopstick wrote: Spire tyrant is meh, no dual axe fighters, and either the leader or the big axe guy could've been a female, the 2 female one they have look bored, like sculptor just made them to meet the quota.
The guy with the shield on his right arm has an alt arm with an axe, I think.
Chopstick wrote: Spire tyrant is meh, no dual axe fighters, and either the leader or the big axe guy could've been a female, the 2 female one they have look bored, like sculptor just made them to meet the quota.
They are fine the way they are. Still waiting on the Dark Oath War King though.
To be fair Ossiarchs only have one infantry model, though I'm surprised a stalker didn't make it into the list! Then again whilst Stalkers aren't huge, they are pretty big by Warcry standards.
The rest of ossiarchs are leaders (who we have tended to see appear as army mercenaries with higher costs) and cavalry (which by and large warcry has avoided).
Of course with the price of Mortek Guard sets that makes Ossiarchs REALLY affordable for Warcry. One box and you are totally done with a diverse and varied force - esp if they are as tough as they are in the regular game and thus come with a high point cost in warcry as well.
Overread wrote: To be fair Ossiarchs only have one infantry model, though I'm surprised a stalker didn't make it into the list! Then again whilst Stalkers aren't huge, they are pretty big by Warcry standards.
The rest of ossiarchs are leaders (who we have tended to see appear as army mercenaries with higher costs) and cavalry (which by and large warcry has avoided).
Of course with the price of Mortek Guard sets that makes Ossiarchs REALLY affordable for Warcry. One box and you are totally done with a diverse and varied force - esp if they are as tough as they are in the regular game and thus come with a high point cost in warcry as well.
Are Stalkers any larger than the biggest Crypt Horror? That one's pretty tall, too.
DaveC wrote: Hmm Ossiarchs don't get much options but it's a 1 box warband where as Ogors probably need 2 (Ironguts and Leadbelchers)
I'd seen comments that these "leaked" stat cards were just photoshops made by a fan that had been round a while on reddit for their own use? Not saying this is the case, just passing it along.
I'd seen comments that these "leaked" stat cards were just photoshops made by a fan that had been round a while on reddit for their own use? Not saying this is the case, just passing it along.
Very possible alright it popped up on Twitter for me so take with some for now. We've seen the Ogors somewhat confirmed from yesterdays AoS Facebook page image - although now that I look at it the Facebook preview had human skin tones these have the older grey skin tone so are more likely to be home made.
I'd seen comments that these "leaked" stat cards were just photoshops made by a fan that had been round a while on reddit for their own use? Not saying this is the case, just passing it along.
Very possible alright it popped up on Twitter for me so take with some for now. We've seen the Ogors somewhat confirmed from yesterdays AoS Facebook page image.
spartan059 wrote: Did anyone else notice that in the nighthaunt warband there are tomb banshees and the gloomspite gitz have snufflers. If i’m not mistaken, they were not in the original card packs and i haven’t seen rules for them elseware. I’m wondering if the other original warbands will get extra units to add too, although the vanguard stormcasts dont sem to have anything new.
Honestly, forcing people to buy a bunch of models they may already have just to get the card for it (presumably, up to a year before it is republished in Tome of Champions 2020), isn't a great move. It'll be scanned and posted within hours of release, so I don't know why GW is making it exclusive - except to piss off the people who like to have the cards. Taken to the extreme (Necromunda), a lack of card availability could be a serious detriment to the long term health and enjoyment of the game.
I had hoped that after the Kill Team Annual reprinted most of the exclusive missions and tactics, and Tome of Champions reprinted all the unit cards, that GW would have moved past this compulsion to break their games up into lots of little pieces and make it impossible for anyone to acquire them all - but I guess they've just decided that they need something for these annual books, so they might as well exploit you in between.
I agree; GW could offer all the cards as a free download, generate a ton of good will with the community, and the hard copies of the cards would still sell out quickly.
"Use a Headclaimer, Pit Champion or Bestigor Destroyer to lock down the kill, and you’ll give everyone around them a boost to their Attacks characteristic."
But the bestigor doesn't have the runemark to use this ability
Chopstick wrote: Pretty meh for a 295. Should have at least 4 attacks.
It's a warrior with a shield. They never get too many attacks. 4 is usually set for warriors with two weapons. That's how they design weapon profiles in Warcry, as far as I saw the different warbands.
May sound stupid, but they usually make high endurance models with fewer attacks. This one has a 6 Endurance, that's quite high.
He seems pretty solid to me. Having an attack profile that strong at 2" range is pretty rare, it gives him options against enemies that can get around his T6. Against enemies that can't his big base makes him obstructive and that 2" range makes him a lot harder to kite. The profile has more depth than it initially appears.
Here's the options for the 9 new warbands - there's a crazy amount of options in these new sets compared to the earlier stuff - 30 for SCE! hopefully it's all balanced. That explains the price increase and SCE costing even more than the rest. Also surprised at the inclusion of the the bigger stuff like Dragon Ogors and Stormfiends.
StD - Fighter cards for 12 fighter types, including Marauders, Marauder Horsemen, Chosen and Chaos Warriors with a variety of weapon and equipment options
Beasts of Chaos - Fighter cards for 17 different fighter types, including Gor, Bestigor, Bullgor, Dragon Ogors and Ungor with a variety of weapons
Ossiarch Bonereapers - Fighter cards for 9 types of fighter, including Mortek Guard, Kavalos Deathriders and Necropolis Stalkers, armed with a variety of different weapons
Disciples of Tzeentch - Fighter cards for 8 types of fighter, including Blue Horrors, Brimstone Horrors, Pink Horrors, Flamers of Tzeentch and Screamers of Tzeentch
Tzeentch Arcanites - Fighter cards for 16 types of fighter, including Tzaangors, Kairic Acolytes, and Tzaangor Enlightened.
Skaven - Fighter cards for 20 types of fighter, including Night Runners, Stormvermin, Packmasters, Rat Ogors, Plague Monks, Clanrats, Giant Rats, and Stormfiends
Ogor Mawtribes - Fighter cards for 8 types of fighter, including Gluttons, Ironguts, Leadbelchers and Gnoblars, with a variety of options.
Kharadron Overlords - Fighter cards for 23 types of fighter, including Endrinriggers, Skywardens, Arkanauts and Grundstok Thunderers, armed with a variety of weapon options
SCE Warrior Chamber - Fighter cards for 30 types of fighter, including Liberators, Prosecutors, Judicators and Paladins
Spoiler:
The Ogroid is a single sprue definitely no options. He's on a 50mm base.
Holy hell, that's a lot more fighters than I expected. Certainly wasn't expecting to be able to use my big guys for Beasts of Chaos and Skaven. Very pleased with this news.
Ogroid Myrmidon doesn't need options, in my opinion. Love it as it is
So does the cat and the cyclop, but that wouldn't stop them from making extra heads, a big rock base for both, and different stone for the cyclop to carry anyway.
Wow, that's a lineup that will probably cement Warcry as a legitimate alternative game for using your AoS figures, while simultaneously cementing the actual Warcry factions as only being useful as display pieces as they fall further behind with their weak and monotonous warbands.
lord_blackfang wrote: Wow, that's a lineup that will probably cement Warcry as a legitimate alternative game for using your AoS figures, while simultaneously cementing the actual Warcry factions as only being useful as display pieces as they fall further behind with their weak and monotonous warbands.
Quite. Even the non chaos warbands from the first wave are completely overshadowed by the sheer variety of this second wave. I mean, 30 profile cards for the SCE Warrior Chamber ? And that's not even counting the allies/mercenaries from the extension !
lord_blackfang wrote: Wow, that's a lineup that will probably cement Warcry as a legitimate alternative game for using your AoS figures, while simultaneously cementing the actual Warcry factions as only being useful as display pieces as they fall further behind with their weak and monotonous warbands.
Except most of the Warcry Warbands achieve a similar level of variety with a single box. Plus with the mercenaries they can take a good number of Slaves to Darkness models in their own force. So they are hardly being left behind. The main surprise is that Slaves to Darknes got their own release when they technically are already part of it through the warbands.
lord_blackfang wrote: Wow, that's a lineup that will probably cement Warcry as a legitimate alternative game for using your AoS figures, while simultaneously cementing the actual Warcry factions as only being useful as display pieces as they fall further behind with their weak and monotonous warbands.
Except most of the Warcry Warbands achieve a similar level of variety with a single box. Plus with the mercenaries they can take a good number of Slaves to Darkness models in their own force. So they are hardly being left behind. The main surprise is that Slaves to Darknes got their own release when they technically are already part of it through the warbands.
The number of mercenaries you can take is limitated. That's not the case of your warband's profiles except from the leader.
30 card profiles easily beat the possibilities of different warbands any of the core chaotic warbands can have.
Also, I wouldn't be surprised if the new factions have also access to the allies and mercenaries soon enough, which will then kill the "advantage" of the core chaotic warbands. Especially for the Slaves to Darkness (which, per definition, are generic).
Except most of the Warcry Warbands achieve a similar level of variety with a single box.
Not tactically meaningful variety. Most really have 3-4 different fighter profiles with a few minor weapon variations each and most are extremely similar within and between factions. All the 6 original warbands combined have less real variety than just Gloomspite Gitz alone and simply lack certain tools like heavy fliers or any shooting worth a damn, and cannot play on an even footing with factions that have those.
We still got Scion of the flame before wave 1 Warband end. So it's still unclear if they will do expansion for each band, or just continue making one off warband and making generic expansion for all of them.
AoS band also bring some unique abilities, and unit into the game. Plus they aren't limited in 3 tiny sprues kit like the Warcry band, so you have lots of variation/pose for the same (good) fighters that you want anyway, with no conversion work, or need to buy the same kit again.
streetsamurai wrote: Not a big fan of these additions. Seems to really dilute the theme and setting of the game
Honestly I agree. I wish they’d just kept it as the 8 new Chaos warbands, and either expanded them or slowly add more. Sorta like Necromunda. Unfortunately half the comments when it was announced were complaining that it was Chaos only, even though that’s kind of the theme of the game. I do understand where people were coming from but, not every game is going to appeal to everyone.
You can always just play Chaos warbands in your group if you're hung up on it. Someone else can just play Order warbands set in a DoK arena in Hammerhal or whatever. Options are good.
I didn’t realise posting an (IMO) pretty balanced opinion meant I was hung up on something, but I’m not sure I agree more options are always good when it comes at the cost of theme and potentially balance (from what I’ve heard some of the non-chaos warbands are a lot better than the original warbands made for the game, which was part of my worry when they announced they’d be bringing other AoS factions in. A lot easier to balance 8 factions than 30 odd).
JWBS wrote: Did they mention when the Wurmspat stuff will likely be released?
Wurmspat is a Beastgrave release not Warcry but should be sometime in Q1.
If you mean the Warcry rules for Maggotkin they will be in the next round of cards whenever they release. We know there are 7 of the 15 left so there should be another round of 9* cards at some point.
Fyreslayers,
Sylvaneth,
Stormcast Eternal Sacrosanct Chamber,
Blades of Khorne Daemons *
Blades of Khorne Bloodbound *
Maggotkin of Nurgle Daemons *
Maggotkin of Nurgle Rotbringers *
Hedonites of Slaanesh
Seraphon
* speculation that these 2 are split into mortals and daemons based on the Tzeentch release and the name generator in the Tome of Champions.
ImAGeek wrote: I didn’t realise posting an (IMO) pretty balanced opinion meant I was hung up on something, but I’m not sure I agree more options are always good when it comes at the cost of theme and potentially balance (from what I’ve heard some of the non-chaos warbands are a lot better than the original warbands made for the game, which was part of my worry when they announced they’d be bringing other AoS factions in. A lot easier to balance 8 factions than 30 odd).
Warcry is a pretty simple game when it comes to stats and unit abilities with a fair amount of repetition and, as far as my limited experience goes, not many outlier abilities. I'd say that if GW can balance 8 factions, another 22 similar factions aren't going to cause any more problems than getting the balance for the first 8 right.
I can certainly see where you're coming from and the strong Chaos theme is there, and a game revolving around warbands that actually fit the theme would be sensible in a vacuum, but I think there's two things speaking against it and that's why GW went the way they did. First, more options means more customers. They may lose some that really wanted Warcry to be a Chaos only game, but will gain so many more who get to play their favorite faction that it doesn't matter.
Secondly, there's just this thing that AoS needed a skirmish game and making the first functional skirmish game* for AoS a Chaos exclusive one wouldn't go down well with the AoS audience because it excludes too many people.
* Functional because I never got the impression that AoS Skirmish gained any notable foothold. People certainly always advised using fan mods to make the game worthwhile as far as I remember.
I guess there's always this http://www.angelfire.com/co4/thedarkgods/pathext.pdf for pure Chaos (personally I prefer the idea of a Chaos only skirmish game, I agree it is far more flavoursome than an all-comers game).
I like the new releases because I always wanted Warcry to be the skirmish game AoS needed. Both Skirmish productions were quite flawed, and Hinterlands needed material drawn from lots of places (even though the game worked really well).
When Warcry started as Chaos-only, I put off getting into it, and doubly- so when the card packs sold out so stupidly quickly with no reprints intended. I want a good skirmish game in the Mortal Realms where I can use my Orruks, Skaven and Stormcast, and these new card packs might just do that. Even better if they are intended to be a regular product, rather than a one-time release.
It sucks because there is actually a healthy Warcry community near me, but I'm not interested in any of the warbands that exist right now.
More options doesn't mean those options are actually superior, and that is what really matters. So far I have found the non-cultist factions to be well balanced against the cultist ones if not at a disadvantage due to thralls & mercenary selection. And most of those 30 options are just different weapons, consider liberators:
That's 6 options which are just gear swaps, doubled to 12 since there's a Liberator-Prime with each of those. So while they are different options they aren't as diverse as the number may indicate.
That said I do feel that 30 is a bit much, and I do wish cultist warbands had alternate leader choices.
Those 6 "gear swap" Liberator sigmarine are 1 type of fighter out of 4 that they can take. For all WC bands being contained in a tiny kit they can't never achieve this.
Also being a full pledge army with their own kit you aren't limited to 1 pose/look. So they'd all look different even if your band contain nothing but Liberator.
That said I do feel that 30 is a bit much, and I do wish cultist warbands had alternate leader choices.
Having some cultist cavalry could be nice as well. Maybe with future miniature kit extension, but I honestly doubt they will go that far with the core 8.
Chopstick wrote: Those 6 "gear swap" Liberator sigmarine are 1 type of fighter out of 4 that they can take. For all WC bands being contained in a tiny kit they can't never achieve this.
Also being a full pledge army with their own kit you aren't limited to 1 pose/look. So they'd all look different even if your band contain nothing but Liberator.
Heck, yeah. All the weapons options in a Liberator kit make for really nice skirmish warbands in one box. This is my warband I made for prior Skirmish/Hinterlands games, that will provide the Liberators to make my entry warband into the local Warcry community when the new packs drop.
JWBS wrote: Did they mention when the Wurmspat stuff will likely be released?
Wurmspat is a Beastgrave release not Warcry but should be sometime in Q1.
If you mean the Warcry rules for Maggotkin they will be in the next round of cards whenever they release. We know there are 7 of the 15 left so there should be another round of 9* cards at some point.
Fyreslayers,
Sylvaneth,
Stormcast Eternal Sacrosanct Chamber,
Blades of Khorne Daemons *
Blades of Khorne Bloodbound *
Maggotkin of Nurgle Daemons *
Maggotkin of Nurgle Rotbringers *
Hedonites of Slaanesh
Seraphon
* speculation that these 2 are split into mortals and daemons based on the Tzeentch release and the name generator in the Tome of Champions.
I assume there is no indication of what the Khorne Bloodbound units will be?
I have loads from that old starter set, would be nice to use them for something, as I never got round to AoS. I have quite a bit of stormcast and nighthaunt too, but I found only a few of the bits I can use.
Which is a shame as I’d like to give warcry a go and having the stuff already would be great..
Yeah, I can see the horror of fighting Daemons of Tzeentch (see the pun here ? ). Split ! Split Again ! Oh look, I have free 250+ points worth of models on the table, now ! I think we'll be seeing a lot of pink daemons jumping from above and hurting themselves on purpose.
It is interesting that splitting can't be used if they are simply killed. They have to be injured but alive, and they don't have that many hit points. It also creates a dynamic where targeting horrors that have already activated is beneficial since they won't be able to split until their next turn, should they survive that long. Seems like a lot of room for tactical play there.
As for ogors is it just me or do gnoblars seem like the most points efficient option? For 45 with that profile flooding the board with 18 or so seems extremely powerful.
streetsamurai wrote: Not a big fan of these additions. Seems to really dilute the theme and setting of the game
Honestly I agree. I wish they’d just kept it as the 8 new Chaos warbands, and either expanded them or slowly add more. Sorta like Necromunda. Unfortunately half the comments when it was announced were complaining that it was Chaos only, even though that’s kind of the theme of the game. I do understand where people were coming from but, not every game is going to appeal to everyone.
I think the whole "Chaos only" or "Order only" conversation is always interesting. 40k can suffer from the same issue. Necromunda is great... if you want to play with a variety of Imperial civilians (and a security force?). As a non-Imperial player, I haven't bothered to even look at the rules. The game could be amazing, but I just don't care about the factions at all. Warcry is similar for me. The game could be amazing, but I've mostly ignored it because I'm not interested in Chaos war bands scuffling with each other. Now that Ossiarchs (my AoS faction) are being added, I'm curious and will probably at least run through some demo games. Adding the extra factions moved this from a hard pass to a maybe. From GW's standpoint, that has to be a good thing.
To be honest, the gap between the core chaos bands and the AoS ones is quite obvious. Allies, chaotic beasts and mercenaries aren't enough - they're stuck with just one leader and with a great majority of infantry. IMHO, that's the main reason people don't really feel the AoS factions have their right to be here.
If you play only core Chaos, there is that keener feeling of balance. Not saying some aren't better than others in many cases, but well...possibilites of long range shooting, high move and flying warriors are more restricted at least.
But what is good with these waves is that we'll have a wide range of profiles for our scenarios. I feel like the AoS factions make great antagonists for special missions, a bit like those in Monster and Mercenaries or the Warcry Annual 2019. What about going in a dark ruin infested with Daemon of Tzeentch, only to fight a cunning Herald holding the Book of Nine Truths that you could take as an artifact of power as a prize ? Or reenacting the Vermintide video game in Warcry by playing a series of scenarios against Skavens where the protagonist band desperatly tries to save his skin and repel the Skaven invasion of Carngrad ? Sure, we could have made those from scratch, but it's easier when something already exists.
Chopxsticks wrote: I thought game size was 1000 pts, max warband count was 15. Are you guys discussing alternative setup I missed in a book?
Whoops, I was thinking 20, my mistake.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sarouan wrote: To be honest, the gap between the core chaos bands and the AoS ones is quite obvious. Allies, chaotic beasts and mercenaries aren't enough - they're stuck with just one leader and with a great majority of infantry. IMHO, that's the main reason people don't really feel the AoS factions have their right to be here.
If you play only core Chaos, there is that keener feeling of balance. Not saying some aren't better than others in many cases, but well...possibilites of long range shooting, high move and flying warriors are more restricted at least.
But what is good with these waves is that we'll have a wide range of profiles for our scenarios. I feel like the AoS factions make great antagonists for special missions, a bit like those in Monster and Mercenaries or the Warcry Annual 2019. What about going in a dark ruin infested with Daemon of Tzeentch, only to fight a cunning Herald holding the Book of Nine Truths that you could take as an artifact of power as a prize ? Or reenacting the Vermintide video game in Warcry by playing a series of scenarios against Skavens where the protagonist band desperatly tries to save his skin and repel the Skaven invasion of Carngrad ? Sure, we could have made those from scratch, but it's easier when something already exists.
All I can say is that as a Splintered Fang player I don't feel like I am at a particular disadvantage against these new warbands. But maybe 'Fang are just good, I don't know the meta.
At any rate I feel like the focus of Warcry as a game is campaigns, where the nuance on balance is a bit less of a focus. In that regard having as many options as possible so everyone can use their faction of choice is a good thing. I know I personally have no interest in Necromunda, for example, because the focus is only on Imperium.
At any rate I feel like the focus of Warcry as a game is campaigns, where the nuance on balance is a bit less of a focus. In that regard having as many options as possible so everyone can use their faction of choice is a good thing. I know I personally have no interest in Necromunda, for example, because the focus is only on Imperium.
cult genestealer, chaos, and corpse grinder cult (khorne) are there
At any rate I feel like the focus of Warcry as a game is campaigns, where the nuance on balance is a bit less of a focus. In that regard having as many options as possible so everyone can use their faction of choice is a good thing. I know I personally have no interest in Necromunda, for example, because the focus is only on Imperium.
The focus of Necromunda is hardly on the Imperium. The closest to an actual Imperial faction is the Enforcers, and even then they’re the hired heavies of the corrupt planetary governor, than upholders of Imperial law.
But regardless, it’s fine if you don’t like Necromunda because of the narrow focus. I don’t think Necromunda should therefore include every 40k faction.
At any rate I feel like the focus of Warcry as a game is campaigns, where the nuance on balance is a bit less of a focus. In that regard having as many options as possible so everyone can use their faction of choice is a good thing. I know I personally have no interest in Necromunda, for example, because the focus is only on Imperium.
The focus of Necromunda is hardly on the Imperium. The closest to an actual Imperial faction is the Enforcers, and even then they’re the hired heavies of the corrupt planetary governor, than upholders of Imperial law.
But regardless, it’s fine if you don’t like Necromunda because of the narrow focus. I don’t think Necromunda should therefore include every 40k faction.
And I don't mean to suggest it should, I just mean that the potential audience is reduced by that narrow focus. But as AoS' only skirmish-level variation (AoS Skirmish being non-functional) Warcry cannot afford that luxury, whereas 40k has Kill Team.
Sotahullu wrote: Well I am certainly interested in Beastsmen. Those guys have very good roster to drawn from.
Yup Beastmen are the only pack I pre-ordered from my FLGS. I have a sealed box of Dragon Ogres I just couldn't part with --- and now I'm glad i didn't!
35 pts for Giant Rats think they are now the cheapest in the game. Apparently the Clanrat leader is 45pts.! must be a misprint as it's cheaper than regular Clanrats.
35 pts for Giant Rats think they are now the cheapest in the game. Apparently the Clanrat leader is 45pts.! must be a misprint as it's cheaper than regular Clanrats.
Well they are skaven.. i dont know why but it seems to make sense that the leader would be "worth less"
Looks like the sky dwarfs have a lot of options. I'll have to find uses for all the character models but at least my underworlds team will get some extra use.
I wish I could find some non- metal Dragon Ogres. They've gotten pretty scarce around my parts. Not even many 3rd party companies make much in the way of dragon ogres (I do have one from Knightmare Miniatures at least for the time being).
lord_blackfang wrote: Rats look a lot like their AoS battletome, some OP toys and a lot of meh troops.
Thats their MO forever. huge number of bodies or big explody toys.
i think the inclusion of the storm fiend is much. would much rather have seen the weapons teams. my doomflayer is just sitting here being sad.
Yeah, the Slaves to Darkness are really disappointing. Why so many marauders and so few chaos warriors ?
Meanwhile, like NinthMusketeer said, there are many cards for SC but in the end, they are very similar. Very elite too, the lowest profile is at 170 points and no cheap eagle to have more numbers. But on the other hand, they have flying SC...
Slaves to Darkness is disappointing alright, at least the new cards have the correct movement and defense stats. All the Chaos Warriors and Chosen's crits decreased from M&M but points stayed the same.To many Marauder horsemen options they could have added Knights if OB has Deathriders Chaos Knights aren't going to break the game.
I feel with a lot of these new warbands they could have restricted the options down more they don't need every single option most will probably never be used anyway.
DaveC wrote: Slaves to Darkness is disappointing alright, at least the new cards have the correct movement and defense stats. All the Chaos Warriors and Chosen's crits decreased from M&M but points stayed the same.To many Marauder horsemen options they could have added Knights if OB has Deathriders Chaos Knights aren't going to break the game.
I feel with a lot of these new warbands they could have restricted the options down more they don't need every single option most will probably never be used anyway.
That's what I don't understand for the Slaves to Darkness. You can see in the other packs that it's not a matter of limited space nor balance reasons - nothing really prevented them to put more options for chaos warriors or adding knights for the same price. That they are weaker than in the challenge battle with the varanguard, I don't mind - the battle is meant to be against a varanguard and his elite followers, after all.
They could at least put a leader with shield, just to be coherent with their Starting Collection new box...oh well, nevermind. I guess it's meant to be a warband of marauders lead by a chosen or something.
StD is pretty awful, or, perhaps should I say, it feels like a Warcry warband, not an AoS warband. Stormcast are basically FEC with guns so they'll be stupid good for sure, although I like FEC abilities more. Beastmen are a bit boring somehow in the stat/ability department, despite having a lot of variety in models.
The Gitz exclusive is lame as hell, one of the most unique models in the game has a mid-tier grunt combat profile with no abilities.
StD is pretty awful, or, perhaps should I say, it feels like a Warcry warband, not an AoS warband. Stormcast are basically FEC with guns so they'll be stupid good for sure, although I like FEC abilities more. Beastmen are a bit boring somehow in the stat/ability department, despite having a lot of variety in models.
The Gitz exclusive is lame as hell, one of the most unique models in the game has a mid-tier grunt combat profile with no abilities.
Stormcast have a pretty nasty drawback in having no chaff, the low model count really hurts them. At least in my experience of playing against them.
Stormcast are definitely going to be my Starter force, now. All those options let my use my whole (small) skirmish collection other than the Lord Relictor and Incantor. I was really unimpressed with the previous Raptor-based set's lack of variety.
Eager to see expanded Orruks and Skaven, as those are my other two forces, and I want to see what I will be able to use.
I lost track of some of this thread, though. What was going to be in expanded Nighthaunt? I had been pondering a thematic skirmish warband made of a Wight King and a bunch of Nighthaunt being the ghosts of his former court, and if that's possible in Warcry I might finally do it, even if I had to paint up the Wight King to count-as a Nighthaunt hero.
Yeah that card creator is cool.
You could make the card from any normal set but just use your own paint job and look etc, much easier to tell the minis in questions rules as you play.
Do you just save the image from the creator or does it download somewhere etc? I’ve only glanced it on my phone
Danny76 wrote: Yeah that card creator is cool.
You could make the card from any normal set but just use your own paint job and look etc, much easier to tell the minis in questions rules as you play.
Do you just save the image from the creator or does it download somewhere etc? I’ve only glanced it on my phone
right click saves as on the card image to save it.
AegisGrimm wrote: Stormcast are definitely going to be my Starter force, now. All those options let my use my whole (small) skirmish collection other than the Lord Relictor and Incantor. I was really unimpressed with the previous Raptor-based set's lack of variety.
Eager to see expanded Orruks and Skaven, as those are my other two forces, and I want to see what I will be able to use.
I lost track of some of this thread, though. What was going to be in expanded Nighthaunt? I had been pondering a thematic skirmish warband made of a Wight King and a bunch of Nighthaunt being the ghosts of his former court, and if that's possible in Warcry I might finally do it, even if I had to paint up the Wight King to count-as a Nighthaunt hero.
You can run a Nighthaunt warband and bring the Wight King as an ally choice.
AegisGrimm wrote: Stormcast are definitely going to be my Starter force, now. All those options let my use my whole (small) skirmish collection other than the Lord Relictor and Incantor. I was really unimpressed with the previous Raptor-based set's lack of variety.
Eager to see expanded Orruks and Skaven, as those are my other two forces, and I want to see what I will be able to use.
I lost track of some of this thread, though. What was going to be in expanded Nighthaunt? I had been pondering a thematic skirmish warband made of a Wight King and a bunch of Nighthaunt being the ghosts of his former court, and if that's possible in Warcry I might finally do it, even if I had to paint up the Wight King to count-as a Nighthaunt hero.
You can run a Nighthaunt warband and bring the Wight King as an ally choice.
Ah, ok, thanks. I'm a complete Warcry neophyte despite GWing for 20-some yrs. All I know is the general basic knowledge, as well as having seen a couple of Guerilla Miniatures Gaming videos.
I had been pondering a thematic force made of a Wight Lord, with a banshee or two as ex-courtesans, and other Nighthaunt as the various dwellers of a haunted prison/fortress (or maybe ghouls as his "peasant followers"). It was originally going to be for skirmish 1.0 in Shadespire.
Ok cool, cheers DaveC. I had assumed or hoped it would be the case.
Just need to organize getting some photos that would go on the card nicely, or the ability to do so.
(Not that I have a rush as I haven’t actually started playing Warcry, let alone a custom warband for it..
I had been pondering a thematic force made of a Wight Lord, with a banshee or two as ex-courtesans, and other Nighthaunt as the various dwellers of a haunted prison/fortress (or maybe ghouls as his "peasant followers"). It was originally going to be for skirmish 1.0 in Shadespire.
You can take the Wight Lord as an Ally for 175 points but he cannot be your leader (must have a leader runemark to be a leader) so you will also have to pick a Nighthaunt with the leader runemark. Nighthaunts only have the Dreadwarden as a leader so you must have one of them for 150 points. The new Nighthaunt Banshees will set you back 145 points each so you are up to 470 points already. You can only have 1 ally in an open or matched play game so you can't also run a Spirit Torment or Lord Executioner which would also fit with your theme but they are Allies. The Tomb Banshee is also an ally whereas the Myrmourn Banshee has the Nighthaunt faction runemark.
Spirit Hosts are a good pick but will set you back 220 points which leaves you 310 points which will get you 3 Chainrasps with 70 points to spare which is unusable so better off with 2 Chainrasps and a Reaper or Stalker. Or forget the spirit host and get 5 - 6 Chain rasps and 1 or 2 Reapers or Stalkers.
Played Tzeentch Daemons vs mixed Skaven in a "kill 50% to win" mission and had a miserable time, two shooty rat ogres easily outshot 1000 pts of Horrors and Flamers.
lord_blackfang wrote: Played Tzeentch Daemons vs mixed Skaven in a "kill 50% to win" mission and had a miserable time, two shooty rat ogres easily outshot 1000 pts of Horrors and Flamers.
What was your experience with their ability to break down into the lesser demons?
lord_blackfang wrote: Played Tzeentch Daemons vs mixed Skaven in a "kill 50% to win" mission and had a miserable time, two shooty rat ogres easily outshot 1000 pts of Horrors and Flamers.
The shooty Rat Ogre card is clearly misprinted as it has better/similar stats than the Stormfiend with Warpfire Projectors but costs 30 points less and has 10 more wounds than a standard Rat Ogre plus the shooting ability for 10 points more. That and the Clawleader which probably should be 145 pts. not 45 need to errata-ed quickly.
lord_blackfang wrote: Played Tzeentch Daemons vs mixed Skaven in a "kill 50% to win" mission and had a miserable time, two shooty rat ogres easily outshot 1000 pts of Horrors and Flamers.
What was your experience with their ability to break down into the lesser demons?
Primarily, unclear on how they should be handled in "lose when half your guys are out of action" missions.
Two of my 3 Horrors got one-shotted.
Last one Split and we agreed the fresh two are added to total head count. If they don't, it would have lost me the game instantly. Overall Horror stats are bad enough to only matter for head count for claiming objectives.
Split Again is fairly meaningless as it just spawns 1 Brimstone, it's just a weird way to heal (and potentially Disengage) while lowering your stats.
lord_blackfang wrote: Played Tzeentch Daemons vs mixed Skaven in a "kill 50% to win" mission and had a miserable time, two shooty rat ogres easily outshot 1000 pts of Horrors and Flamers.
The shooty Rat Ogre card is clearly misprinted as it has better stats than the Stormfiend with Warpfire Projectors but costs 30 points less. That and the Clawleader which probably should be 145 pts. not 45 need to errata-ed quickly.
Shooty Ogre was probably meant to have 30W, like the other basic rat ogre. Dunno about the gun. Stormfiends overall seem overpriced considering they can't be given extra actions by the Packmaster but this is just bad design, not a typo.
Well, I had a game yesterday to test out my friends Ogre band, I used Iron Golems. My Breacher went down in one round of fighting, and the rest of my band vanished in short order, so power creep is certainly a thing with some of these new teams. The ogres seem to have far to many high strength high damage attacks, especially compared to the Breacher, for there cost, and with Gnoblars they won't even have many issues dealing with objective matches.
I have heard numerous times that Iron Golems are an unusually weak warband, it could be that. I haven't gotten a chance to play against ogors yet but should soon. Still, these new warbands I get the sense they tried to pack in too many units and it let to some rough portions where they didn't have time to balance properly.
I'm fairly certain all of the AoS faction additions were not play-tested very thoroughly to balance them with the 7 made-for-Warcry warbands...
I'm looking at the Arcanite Skyfires and their high range/high damage bows and even considering their considerable cost, am having a hard time seeing them not overpowering many of the melee focused warbands.
NinthMusketeer wrote: I have heard numerous times that Iron Golems are an unusually weak warband, it could be that. I haven't gotten a chance to play against ogors yet but should soon. Still, these new warbands I get the sense they tried to pack in too many units and it let to some rough portions where they didn't have time to balance properly.
Iron Golems seem to be in a weird spot. Everything I see about them on Reddit or Youtube has people saying they are easily the worst warband or that they are dominating their meta. I'm not sure if it just happens to be who is using them, or just depends on if people are playing matched play or random scenarios or what. That all said the Chaos Warbands really don't tend to stack up very well against most of the non-Chaos Warbands, and I think that has to do with the non-Chaos Warbands not really being well playtested. This new wave looks worse than usual as the cards don't even appear to have been proof-read before being sent to the printers (Skaven has a couple glaringly obvious mistakes).
I do like that GW is attempting to get people playing who are not interested in Chaos factions, but I really wish they would take the time and consideration they do when making a Chaos warband. Even if it meant factions coming out more slowly, I would definitely appreciate it.
I would have preferred they left out big stuff (3+ wounds in AoS) in order to better balance a core of small stuff. Then add the big stuff with a later release. Bar unique options along the lines of golem's breacher, of course (regular rat ogors or necropolis stalkers come to mind) and mawtribes. But stormfiends, disc-mounted arcanites, deathriders, and many more are a bit much for the game right now and unlike Idoneth aren't needed to fill out an otherwise sparse roster.
That said I have confidence in Bottle as a designer. I'll bet we'll see a balance update sometime this year that fixes a lot of problem elements.
I am also happier having things in the state they are than not having them at all. It is still way better than AoS
Sabotage! wrote: [ This new wave looks worse than usual as the cards don't even appear to have been proof-read before being sent to the printers (Skaven has a couple glaringly obvious mistakes).
I just picked these ones up yesterday and didn't look too closely at them, which ones are wrong?
NinthMusketeer wrote:I would have preferred they left out big stuff (3+ wounds in AoS) in order to better balance a core of small stuff. Then add the big stuff with a later release. Bar unique options along the lines of golem's breacher, of course (regular rat ogors or necropolis stalkers come to mind) and mawtribes. But stormfiends, disc-mounted arcanites, deathriders, and many more are a bit much for the game right now and unlike Idoneth aren't needed to fill out an otherwise sparse roster.
That said I have confidence in Bottle as a designer. I'll bet we'll see a balance update sometime this year that fixes a lot of problem elements.
I am also happier having things in the state they are than not having them at all. It is still way better than AoS
Yeah, I agree on the bigger stuff, it doesn't really feel skirmish scale. I also don't doubt we will get some balance issues worked out pretty soon. To be fair I haven't really dabbled outside of the bands designed for the game (though I do have cards for a few), but the Chaos bands seem pretty well balanced against each other.
I also agree, it's nice for people to have more options, and as far as miniature games go Warcry is one of the more tame ones in terms of balance issues.
Fango wrote:
Sabotage! wrote: [ This new wave looks worse than usual as the cards don't even appear to have been proof-read before being sent to the printers (Skaven has a couple glaringly obvious mistakes).
I just picked these ones up yesterday and didn't look too closely at them, which ones are wrong?
Just off the top of my head (I don't have the cards, just saw them) one of the Skaven Leaders (clan rat I believe) is 45 points when he clearly should have been 145 and two of the Stormfiends have a wound discrepancy (I believe the shooty one has 10 less wounds than the other version).
I’ll chalk up the difference in power creep being an overload of power options vs buying several different fighters.
IE- chaos warband has one breacher or one rocktusk. Imagine if the entire warband was built using those two models and only the an additional leader. Would they be more or less powerful?
It occurs to me now that MAYBE using 5 snake swarms has something to do with my lack of trouble overcoming other warbands...
Automatically Appended Next Post: @Sabotage, do note that the armored stormfiends have an extra wound to their unarmored counterparts in AoS, so they should reasonably have extra in Warcry as well.
So you don’t think people would take more rocktusks or other more expensive models if they were sold separately. You also don’t think they would do better?
I'm suggesting the exact opposite; snake swarms are the 'warbeast' model for Splintered Fang, there was only 1 per box (two per box now since the new one is double size) yet I went out of my way to convert extra so I could run 5. Part of that for me is just theme, but they are also among the best models the faction has. If the original warbands had freedom to mix & match the best choices like the supplemental ones they would likely be on par IMO.
Of course technically they do, but there is an element of impracticality there if someone wants to, say, run four of a model that is only 1-per-10.
NinthMusketeer wrote: It occurs to me now that MAYBE using 5 snake swarms has something to do with my lack of trouble overcoming other warbands...
Automatically Appended Next Post: @Sabotage, do note that the armored stormfiends have an extra wound to their unarmored counterparts in AoS, so they should reasonably have extra in Warcry as well.
Huh, I didn’t even realize unarmored stormfiends were a thing, I thought they were all armored and just had different weapons. Shows how much I know about Skaven.
Carlovonsexron wrote: Anyone think (hope) we'll get the last warband revealed at GAMA?
I certainly hope so. I’m kind of surprised we have had to wait this long to get all the Warbands mentioned in the core book which was released last August. That doesn’t seem very much like GW. We already have that Image from the rumor mill from a while back.
It makes me wonder if there was a production hiccup. Still, I have been pretty happy with the release pace for Warcry so far and I can tell they are pushing to get all the factions in asap. Perhaps pushing a bit too hard given the balance quibbles but things don't seem horribly broken and I know a lot of people very happy to be able to play their army of choice.
NinthMusketeer wrote: I'm suggesting the exact opposite; snake swarms are the 'warbeast' model for Splintered Fang, there was only 1 per box (two per box now since the new one is double size) yet I went out of my way to convert extra so I could run 5. Part of that for me is just theme, but they are also among the best models the faction has. If the original warbands had freedom to mix & match the best choices like the supplemental ones they would likely be on par IMO.
Of course technically they do, but there is an element of impracticality there if someone wants to, say, run four of a model that is only 1-per-10.
My apologies I was intoxicated when I read your original post and misinterpreted what you said. I agree with the impracticality of the warcry specific models and buying four warband worth of models to only use a select few. I was looking at third party models for more rock tusk prowlers and that will probably the route I take to expand that band.
I’m hopeful they release the last band and potentially an expansion to dig deeper into magic. That would be pretty cool.
NinthMusketeer wrote: It makes me wonder if there was a production hiccup. Still, I have been pretty happy with the release pace for Warcry so far and I can tell they are pushing to get all the factions in asap. Perhaps pushing a bit too hard given the balance quibbles but things don't seem horribly broken and I know a lot of people very happy to be able to play their army of choice.
This is probably my guess. I imagine the original plan was to have all 8 Chaos warbands out by now, and while I certainly am interested to see the Scions, I really can’t complain about the release pace. We got six original Warbands out the first month of release, which was waaaaay better than how Necromunda was done, along with quite a few AoS bands. Since then we got two books with lots of content, a new Chaos Warbands, a cool monster (and two more soon) and a ton of AoS bands. Definitely a ton of content for a game that is six months old.
Carlovonsexron wrote: I do wonder where war cry goes from here, once the last warband and monsters are released.
Dedicated order warbands?
mage characters for each chaos warband?
Champion characters for each warband?
Even more chaos warbands?
All.those.options seem great to me, though I like the latter three best
I’m with you on all of this particularly the last three, as I find the Warcry setting/ Warbands very cool.
Personally what I would really like to see is each Chaos Warband get an “expansion set” with a single spruce with 3-5 news models on it. One being an alternate leader, one being a mage if they go that route, and one or two new unit types (with 1-2 models of each).
I would also like to see more stuff like the Ogre Myrmidon and Formorroid, random monsters and mercenaries that work for anyone. Also more chaotic beasts.
Then afterwards I would like to see Warcry: Catacombs of Hammerhal, or something like that. A setting out of the Eight Points that focuses on a place of conflict like Warcry, but that focuses less on Chaos and introduces new (with new models of course) factions for the other Grand Alliances. It would be a great place to fit in a Witch Hunter band or a rogue mad scientists undead creations or what not.
There's a few options and in part it depends if GW is going to treat Warcry like Killteam or as a short term project that then gets replaced by a Killteam game (ergo skirmish).
If GW wants to keep Warcry and use it as the Skirmish entrypoint for AoS then I'd say we might see a few things:
1) Continual use of it to release new models. These might be new sculpts as well as replacement sculpts - eg a new marauder set might get released under the Warcry banner.
2) GW could expand the above to also include other forces from other armies. This wouldn't require any change save for some Warcry themed packaging now and then. The benefit is it keeps Warcry in the marketing eye, but at the same time its not adding anything to the core armies that wasn't going to be added anyway. It just redirects the marketing to WARCRY first and then AoS second. About the only downside would be double packaging. This might mean short term Warcry packs followed by long term AoS packs; with new expansion books with the stats released in them and, every so often, an updated card pack with all the new stuff added etc..
3) Adding a new Chaos army through Warcry.
4) Wandering monsters. Models that have no allegiance to any one force. Ergo full boutique style models. Less likely but could easily be done through Forgeworld IF they wanted too.
5) Terrain packs are clearly popular to release through Warcry so I'd expect that to continue. It likely helps push sales of them far more than simply releasing a new block of terrain features.
It would be cool to see a campaign supplement eventually that has a new system for gaining xp that is more in-depth than the current destiny levels. Having fighters level up, obtain skills (and promotions to higher types of fighter where possible), etc.
NinthMusketeer wrote: It would be cool to see a campaign supplement eventually that has a new system for gaining xp that is more in-depth than the current destiny levels. Having fighters level up, obtain skills (and promotions to higher types of fighter where possible), etc.
I'm pretty sure the next supplement will be Monsters and Mercenaries 2, to add allies / monsters for the new factions, new quests and challenge battles.
As for the leveling up, I'm leaning towards a system akind to granting command traits, but not just the leader and the favored warrior - meaning some specific missions will be allowing the winner to gain one as reward. I don't think gaining xp will work well with the way they implemented challenge battles, where the other player doesn't play his usual band but either a big monster or a set band with or without a named character. It works better with something that give rewards that are either temporary or very limited to a small number of miniatures. They don't want to go the Mordheim way as it was explained in a previous Stormcast ! interview.
Jjohnso11 wrote: So you don’t think people would take more rocktusks or other more expensive models if they were sold separately. You also don’t think they would do better?
If I had done so in my match up against Ogors, it would have made little difference, the Ogors have more attacks, doing around equal damage, and the same wounds, for less points than the Ogor Breacher, they are as slow as the breacher but just seem absurdly strong compared to the bigger models in some other warbands, I know they have to balance against the Gnoblars weaknesses somehow, but being able to kill the Breacher with one activation by spending a single double seems maddening.
I was hoping for a combined Maggotkin of Nurgle warband What would Rotbringers have other than Putrid Blightkings and a Rotbringer Sorcerer? I doubt we'll see Pusgoyle Blightlords or Maggoth Lords and the Lord of Blights and Lord of Plagues are in the Monsters and Mercenaries book.
Ghaz wrote: I was hoping for a combined Maggotkin of Nurgle warband What would Rotbringers have other than Putrid Blightkings and a Rotbringer Sorcerer? I doubt we'll see Pusgoyle Blightlords or Maggoth Lords and the Lord of Blights and Lord of Plagues are in the Monsters and Mercenaries book.
That's the thing; blightkings have so many equipment options the kit can easily fill a faction on it's own. I'm excited because I get two full warbands just for my Nurgle! It's not like my friends won't let me 'ally in' some plaguebearers to run with blightkings if I want.
Ghaz wrote: I was hoping for a combined Maggotkin of Nurgle warband What would Rotbringers have other than Putrid Blightkings and a Rotbringer Sorcerer? I doubt we'll see Pusgoyle Blightlords or Maggoth Lords and the Lord of Blights and Lord of Plagues are in the Monsters and Mercenaries book.
That's the thing; blightkings have so many equipment options the kit can easily fill a faction on it's own. I'm excited because I get two full warbands just for my Nurgle! It's not like my friends won't let me 'ally in' some plaguebearers to run with blightkings if I want.
I have actually found it weird that in basic AoS Blightkings only have one weapon profile despite there being weapon variations.
So there is going to be Champion, Shielded grunts, Dual-wielding grunts and BAS (Big Ass Scythe).
Ghaz wrote: I was hoping for a combined Maggotkin of Nurgle warband What would Rotbringers have other than Putrid Blightkings and a Rotbringer Sorcerer? I doubt we'll see Pusgoyle Blightlords or Maggoth Lords and the Lord of Blights and Lord of Plagues are in the Monsters and Mercenaries book.
That's the thing; blightkings have so many equipment options the kit can easily fill a faction on it's own. I'm excited because I get two full warbands just for my Nurgle! It's not like my friends won't let me 'ally in' some plaguebearers to run with blightkings if I want.
I was just hoping for some variety in the warband. I purchased The Wurmspat kit (even though I don't play Underworlds) and was hoping to fill out the warband with a $35 box of Plaguebearers instead of a $55 box of Putrid Blightkings...
Yeah they will probably split out the weapon options to make a viable warband. 1 box of Putrid Blightkings might make a whole warband.
Blightlord (leader)
Blightking 2 hand weapons
Blightking hand weapon and shield
Blightking Flail
Blightking Great weapon
Blightking Scythe
and maybe a Glaive option now that the Wurmspat have one.
It's still very light on models which are likely to be expensive points wise. The sorcerer might make it in to make up the numbers LoN have a Necromancer so there is precedent for a non Ally or Merc wizard but it's not available in plastic and they don't normally use Underworld models to make up warbands
I think Pusgoyle Blightlords are probably too OP for Warcry.
Yea I wouldn't expect flybois. Shame they split up Nurgle given how few kits he gets, and mortal and daemon abilities should overlap anyway (unlike Arcanites and Daemons).
I think Pusgoyle Blightlords are probably too OP for Warcry.
I actually think the opposite. Just having Blightkings isn't enough for a cardpack, IMHO, even with as many different options as possible. No chance that they make profiles to play the Beastgrave warband, they always copied the AoS units so far even with bands that actually had beastgrave miniatures out at the time of the cardpack's release.
Also, if they managed to put Stormfiends and Chimaera in Warcry, why not Blightlords ? You know balance isn't a reason, especially when they can make profiles totally different than in AoS. I totally see them putting an even more expensive flying cavalry in a very elite warband like Maggotkins. Who knows, maybe we'll be able to make a warband with three miniatures ?
Sarouan wrote: No chance that they make profiles to play the Beastgrave warband, they always copied the AoS units so far even with bands that actually had beastgrave miniatures out at the time of the cardpack's release.
I can absolutely see them releasing cards for the Underworlds warbands at some point. Maybe as one large pack per Underworlds "season" or something.
Ghaz wrote: I was hoping for a combined Maggotkin of Nurgle warband
You need to remember that your warband can contain anybody that shares an icon with the campaign quest. For the Tzeentch, Nurgle, and Khorne quests in the Tome of Champions, their quests have two icons.
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: WTF @ Fyreslayers vanishing from the wider card releases. They now remain the only warband with quests... but no actual way to play them. Weird.
Scions of Flame have a quest in the original rulebook.
I can only guess they discovered some kind of serious enough typos or misprints that it functionally rendered the packs moot?
Considering the typos and misprints that they did let through, these must be seriously bad.
Geifer wrote: I can live with that price for Hypno-Cat.
Yeah based on the size difference in this picture I thought they'd be more expensive than the Ogroid but the Ogroid is a more of a one off buy where as you can have multiples of the others in AoS so one balances the other I guess. I won't complain about £20 from online discounters.
Good to see the available choices announced ahead of time.
Pusgoyle Blightlords are in after all and Bloodbound get the Khorgorath I guess they want to sell the Goreblade warband which is in fairness not a bad way to get a Bloodbound warband.
NinthMusketeer wrote: My biggest problem has become that there are WAY too many potential warbands for me to play all of them!
Completely agree - I've been playing Iron Golem & Night Gobbos, then bought the Slaves to Darkness cards (disappointed with the lack of Chaos Knights). I've already got Rotbringers & Nurgle daemons for AoS, but I'm tempted by Seraphon & Daemons of Khorne.
I bought a couple of Maggotkin starter sets last month due to Darren Latham's latest tutorial and I've been loving painting them, so I suppose they're now destined to be a Warcry band.
Eh some armies just don't have many actual model options to pick from. Slaanesh has VERY few options in the infantry slots. In fact fiends are pretty large based on the standard size of models most use. However if you take cavalry and fiends and most of the leaders out then Slaanesh really only has one troop unit to put on the table. The only way to vary it would be to get really fussy with the claw arm types.
Ossiarchs are much the same, again they've very few real options to pick from - infantry might have 3 weapon variations and that's it.
I think it just highlights how some armies, like Skaven, have loads of options, whilst many others are very restricted .
lord_blackfang wrote: I suspect this wave was done again by a different person (wave 2 was clearly not the same designer as wave 1) and this one has a boner for cavalry.
Why were waves 1 and 2 definitely different people? Who was released in each?
Speaking of Beastmen, it'd be nice if there were actual boxes of Dragon Ogres and Minotaurs readily available (along with Ogre Ironguts) outside of direct order from GW.
For factions with such limited options it'd be nice if we didn't have to skulk ebay and second hand bits sales for said limited options.
Looking forward to these. Yes the Ogroid is a bit cooler (imo) but both of these are more massive and at the same price, and I thought the Ogroid was reasonably well priced, so these seem great to me.
The Ogroid Myrmidon is roughly the same price as the slightly smaller Ogroid Thaumaturge. I'm surprised that the Crusher and Mindstealer weren't in the $45-$50 range.
Overread wrote: Eh some armies just don't have many actual model options to pick from. Slaanesh has VERY few options in the infantry slots. In fact fiends are pretty large based on the standard size of models most use. However if you take cavalry and fiends and most of the leaders out then Slaanesh really only has one troop unit to put on the table. The only way to vary it would be to get really fussy with the claw arm types.
Ossiarchs are much the same, again they've very few real options to pick from - infantry might have 3 weapon variations and that's it.
I think it just highlights how some armies, like Skaven, have loads of options, whilst many others are very restricted .
On one hand I feel this is a missed opportunity to drill down and add nuance to basic options, on the other I am happy to see such a wide variety of kits being incorpprated. But for example, daemonettes could be broken down into four options: regular, leader, music (1 less attack but has a special runemark), and banner (also 1 less attack but has a special runemark). The 'music runemark' and 'banner runemark' could be shared across seekers & hellstriders, though in hellstriders' case it would be 1 less toughness instead. The abilities can them be a generic double, an ability for music, and ability for banner, an ability for mounted, an ability for leader, and a generic quad. Twelve unit options in total, across three different kits, and fiends haven't even gotten involved yet!
But quite frankly, I'm not complaining. They opted for a slightly different approach, I'm sure they had their reasons, and I am pretty dam happy with the results.
Well Maggotkin Rotbringers really got short changed - 5 cards!
5 fighter cards provide profiles for four types of Putrid Blightkings and Pusgoyle Blightlords
Blightlords are 245 points 40 wounds
SCE - 12 fighter cards provide profiles four types of Evocators, two types Castigators and six types of Sequitors.
Sylvaneth - 12 fighter cards provide profiles for two types of Dryads, two types of Spite-Revenants, two types of Tree-Revenants and six types of Kurnoth Hunters.
Bloodbound - 12 fighter cards provide profiles four types of Blood Warriors, three types of Bloodreavers, two types of Wrathmongers, two types of Skullreapers and Khorgoraths.
Khorne Daemons - 6 fighter cards provide profiles two types of Flesh Hounds, two types of Bloodletters and two types of Bloodcrushers.
Nurgle Daemons - 6 fighter cards provide profiles for Nurglings, two types of Plaguebearers, Beasts of Nurgle and two types of Plague Drones.
Hedonites - 9 fighter cards provide profiles for two types of Daemonettes, two types of Seekers, two types of Fiends and three types of Hellstriders.
Seraphon - 17 fighter cards provide profiles for four types of Skinks, three types of Saurus Warriors, two types of Saurus Guard, three types of Saurus Knights, three types of Terradon Riders and two types of Ripperdactyl Riders.
WARCRY
Born of Flame
New rules and fighter cards for using Fyreslayers in your games of Warcry. Be warned, they like hitting stuff hard and setting things on fire! Includes rules for 10 different loadouts over three fighter types.
Displeased at Maggotkin only getting 5 cards, but if the cards are well designed it could be enough. Worst case scenario it isn't like my group won't let me run daemons & rotbringers in the same band.
Unless their delay is because they are getting new models and GW is holding off onthe cards till then? Though if they are getting White Dwarf rules then it seems really odd since that suggests a delay of several months.
Another thing to consider is could they give the cards away as a freebie on the front of the magazine? A neat way to coax people into Fyreslayers and the game - more so than just printed text in the book itself.
Displeased at Maggotkin only getting 5 cards, but if the cards are well designed it could be enough. Worst case scenario it isn't like my group won't let me run daemons & rotbringers in the same band.
Since they announced Daemons and Mortals would be separate for the cardpacks, what did you expect ? At most, they would have gotten 6 cards with a Pusgoyle Blightlord leader (miniatures for AoS don't have any standard nor musician, anyway).
I'm also a bit sad not to be able to put my leader on a giant fly, but I can live with it.
As for the faction and looking from what they've done for the Lord of Plagues and Lord of Blight and from the aptitude card, it's not hard to foresee that the band will be a very slow, elite one. The bell guy will be able to boost their move a bit, but not to Ironjaws levels.
Pusgoyles are all blightlords so would expect them to both have the leader runemark (counterbalancing such a large model with there only being one of it).
But at the end of the day I went from having no rules for my Rotbringers to having rules for Rotbringers and I'm pretty happy about that.
Yay, Fyreslayers are in a White Dwarf that you have to grab or it will be impossible to find! Another wonderfully advised WD-only game supplement in the vein of two-part skirmish rules and the like!
Well hopefully GW will release a PDF of the Fireslayer's for free once the following month's WD comes around. I'm not really into the Fireslayer's but it would be a huge bummer if you were a big Fireslayer fan who starts the game this Summer, but have to wait until December to get your rules in the yearly annual.
AegisGrimm wrote:Yay, Fyreslayers are in a White Dwarf that you have to grab or it will be impossible to find! Another wonderfully advised WD-only game supplement in the vein of two-part skirmish rules and the like!
Grrr.....why would they not just be a card pack?
Sabotage! wrote:Well hopefully GW will release a PDF of the Fireslayer's for free once the following month's WD comes around. I'm not really into the Fireslayer's but it would be a huge bummer if you were a big Fireslayer fan who starts the game this Summer, but have to wait until December to get your rules in the yearly annual.
If I remember correctly last year's non-Chaos warbands (e.g. Gloomspite Gitz, Idoneth Deepkin, Ironjawz, etc.) had their card packs disappear shortly after their release only to show up at the end of the year in the Tome of Champions. I expect the same here for the new warbands (including Fyreslayers).
AegisGrimm wrote:Yay, Fyreslayers are in a White Dwarf that you have to grab or it will be impossible to find! Another wonderfully advised WD-only game supplement in the vein of two-part skirmish rules and the like!
Grrr.....why would they not just be a card pack?
Sabotage! wrote:Well hopefully GW will release a PDF of the Fireslayer's for free once the following month's WD comes around. I'm not really into the Fireslayer's but it would be a huge bummer if you were a big Fireslayer fan who starts the game this Summer, but have to wait until December to get your rules in the yearly annual.
If I remember correctly last year's non-Chaos warbands (e.g. Gloomspite Gitz, Idoneth Deepkin, Ironjawz, etc.) had their card packs disappear shortly after their release only to show up at the end of the year in the Tome of Champions. I expect the same here for the new warbands (including Fyreslayers).
Which was great in the end, but really sucked trying to get into the game when they sold out almost immediately, and the only way to get them was to pay exorbitant prices online. It's why I never got into warcry before now. I really wanted to dip my toes in with models I already owned and had painted, but wasn't about to pay 25-30 bucks or more for cards to play my Stormcast.
I'm really hoping the new card packs last longer this time. I'm really tired of GW introducing artificial demand when they produce too-small runs (and then never reprint) of stuff when they know absolutely well that a larger run would sell just as well, just so they can play their old game of yelling "Yay, this game is so insanely popular it sold out completely in 24 hours!!" which started all the way back in the days of Space Hulk 3e.
AegisGrimm wrote:Yay, Fyreslayers are in a White Dwarf that you have to grab or it will be impossible to find! Another wonderfully advised WD-only game supplement in the vein of two-part skirmish rules and the like!
Grrr.....why would they not just be a card pack?
Sabotage! wrote:Well hopefully GW will release a PDF of the Fireslayer's for free once the following month's WD comes around. I'm not really into the Fireslayer's but it would be a huge bummer if you were a big Fireslayer fan who starts the game this Summer, but have to wait until December to get your rules in the yearly annual.
If I remember correctly last year's non-Chaos warbands (e.g. Gloomspite Gitz, Idoneth Deepkin, Ironjawz, etc.) had their card packs disappear shortly after their release only to show up at the end of the year in the Tome of Champions. I expect the same here for the new warbands (including Fyreslayers).
Yeah, it's what happened last time, I'm just hoping it doesn't this time because it kind of leaves players that want to pick up the game with their favorite faction in a lurch for 10ish months. At least this time you can buy the backorder issue of WD digitally, though GW digital stuff is terribly formatted for pretty much anything other than an Ipad (at least it was about 2 years ago last time I bought digital from them), so if you don't have one of those you are stuck waiting.
I feel this is a really bad move by GW. It generates resentment among the customer base (even those not playing Fyreslayers), adds additional barrier to entry for players wanting to Fyreslay in Warcry, will reduce the supply of White Dwarf for people who want it for every other reason, is essentially a giant sign reading "PIRATE ME" (and generates a culture of pirating rules), and there's no way it can be generating that much income compared to just printing the dam cards. While relatively small in the grand scheme of things I think the cost to benefit ratio is absolutely horrid.
DaveC wrote: I’m guessing the rules will be over 2 pages with Tome of Champion style boxes for each fighter “card” so no cards as such.
It's even dumber than that... The pages have the cards on so you can cut them out (*yay!*). Except the main Abilities card is on the back of one of the pages so you either need two copies of WD to create the cards, or photocopy/scan it, otherwise you can't have all the cards *face/palm*. Whoever laid out the pages needs a slap.
They have 10 different fighter cards spread across Hearthguard Berzerkers, Auric Hearthguard and Vulkite Berzerkers
What an asinine release. Luckily they're also the weakest faction by a large margin, so nobody will be inclined to torture themselves with the WD "cards".
Still a good old dumb Geedub move. I pay for the White Dwarf, and then have to burn my own printer ink to make the cards in full color, as opposed to paying less than both those options if I could just buy them like the other sets.
I still think the only sound reason not to have them in card format is because of an impending release for them which adds new models so you delay the cards so that you only have one printing of them.
That is the positive spin on things; and lets face it Fyreslayers are one of the smaller AoS factions so they've plenty of room to add new models.
The negative spin is that its a short term attention grab for White Dwarf; but a poor one. A better move, if that were the focus to get more people buying WD; would have been to put the card pack for free on the front of the magazine. A bit more complex logistically, but not impossible for GW to achieve and it would have generated way more interest in Warcry, White Dwarf and Fyreslayers all in one go. Far more so than a printer-page in the magazine.
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: I wonder if they just couldn't get enough of a print slot to get the FS cards done (without printing fewer of the others?)
It would seem very odd if they couldn't. Plus if that were the case surely a better answer would have been to break it into two further shipments. They could easily have hived half the demon armies (at least 3 of them since Slaanesh is just one set) and then had a set of four or five of the card packs sent in a months time or such. Whilst it breaks things up, cardpacks easily ship and sit alongside other products.
Of course it very hard to know and GW does seem to have problems with stocking their cards. It's really odd that they keep pushing cards when they can't seem to keep the system working as smoothly as it could.
I'm really hoping it's the theory of Fyreslayers being expanded with new models sometime soon. I have always thought they would be a cool army, but they are so monochromatic, even in a skirmish setting. Some units that aren't just differently armed slayers would spice them up as a faction.
Rotbringers just get odder 2 of your 5 cards are the Blighted Icon Bearer and the Sonorous Tocsin and both are pretty much an autoincludes as they buff toughness and movement to friendlies within 6 inches, Blightkings have 1 card regardless of weapons as the picture shows a shield but the toughness remains 4 across the board shield or not at least the 2 Blightkings from the Wurmspat will fit right in. No Lord of Afflictions despite the image on the abilities card so an all flyboys list isn't possible. Still I'll be putting together that start collecting and it doesn't matter how I build them now (it's 990 points plus an extra Pusgoyle Blightlord and a Lord of Blights Ally).
Rotbringers just get odder 2 of your 5 cards are the Blighted Icon Bearer and the Sonorous Tocsin and both are pretty much an autoincludes as they buff toughness and movement to friendlies within 6 inches, Blightkings have 1 card regardless of weapons as the picture shows a shield but the toughness remains 4 across the board shield or not at least the 2 Blightkings from the Wurmspat will fit right in. No Lord of Afflictions despite the image on the abilities card so an all flyboys list isn't possible. Still I'll be putting together that start collecting and it doesn't matter how I build them now (it's 990 points plus an extra Pusgoyle Blightlord and a Lord of Blights Ally).
Yeah, I think I'm going to suggest houseruling a combined Nurgle warband to the group.
I'm a little bit surprised that the Poxbringer, Spoilpox Scrivener and Sloppity Bilepiper didn't make it in for the Nurgle daemons...
I'm a little bit surprised that the Poxbringer, Spoilpox Scrivener and Sloppity Bilepiper didn't make it in for the Nurgle daemons...
They're AoS heroes. Their place is not in the Warcry bands, but as allies. That's how they designed it in Monster and Mercenaries, and I'm pretty sure the next supplement for Warcry will add more allies for these new factions.
As for the Maggotkin, I'm thinking to make a 1000 points list with 1 blightkin, 1 leader, 1 standard, 2 musicians (with one box, use the flails with bells for one and the big two handed bell for the other - can do the trick to translate their 2' rmelee range) and 1 blightlord. I bet you can pile in the move aura so that you gain +2 move if placed right.
I'm a little bit surprised that the Poxbringer, Spoilpox Scrivener and Sloppity Bilepiper didn't make it in for the Nurgle daemons...
They're AoS heroes. Their place is not in the Warcry bands, but as allies. That's how they designed it in Monster and Mercenaries, and I'm pretty sure the next supplement for Warcry will add more allies for these new factions.
True on the Sloppity Bilepiper and the Spoilpox Scrivener. Personally I've always viewed the Poxbringer as more of a Plaguebearer champion which just happened to be a separate unit.
Looks like this whole wave is on the power level of core Warcry warbands, albeit probably more due to incompetence than design. So broadly we have tiers:
lord_blackfang wrote: Looks like this whole wave is on the power level of core Warcry warbands, albeit probably more due to incompetence than design. So broadly we have tiers:
Wave 2 AoS Wave 1 AoS Core and Wave 3 AoS
It's not as simple as that. Not all bands from the same wave are on the same level, far from it. You also seem to dismiss Seraphons from Wave 3, don't think they're that bad.
I've heard people exclaim that Ogors are OP but had no problem tearing through them with my Splintered Fang, myself. I got the impression they were underpowered, even, due to how badly they can lose on activation wars; they seem to mainly be strong against other elite warbands. I feel the situation is more internet hyperbole than division into tier lists. I also think looking at Warcry releases strictly from a matched play standpoint is largely missing the point. The game is clearly intended to be narrative/campaign focused. That is where the vast majority of content lies, matched & tournament play being little more than small additions towards the back end of the book.
Rotbringers just get odder 2 of your 5 cards are the Blighted Icon Bearer and the Sonorous Tocsin and both are pretty much an autoincludes as they buff toughness and movement to friendlies within 6 inches, Blightkings have 1 card regardless of weapons as the picture shows a shield but the toughness remains 4 across the board shield or not at least the 2 Blightkings from the Wurmspat will fit right in. No Lord of Afflictions despite the image on the abilities card so an all flyboys list isn't possible. Still I'll be putting together that start collecting and it doesn't matter how I build them now (it's 990 points plus an extra Pusgoyle Blightlord and a Lord of Blights Ally).
Tocsin is definitely auto-include with such a slow warband. I've noticed that they have made various slow warbands have different gimmicks to get around movement 3, a lesson I suspect they learned from the Iron Golem's performance. I hesitantly guess that the bell-tax is an intentional design element giving Rotbringers a unique feel. The banner is much more optional, a nice aoe toughness buff but one that needs a triple. The real reason it is auto-take is because the banner bearer costs only 5 more points with exactly the same stats... I wonder if there will be a errata giving the shield-kings toughness 5, which would make those point costs make sense.
Overall, not how I would of designed it but I think I see what they are going for and I will certainly have fun playing it.
Bloodbound - 12 fighter cards provide profiles four types of Blood Warriors, three types of Bloodreavers, two types of Wrathmongers, two types of Skullreapers and Khorgoraths.
Do we know what the four and three warriors and reavers variants are?
Is there a way to find that out, I am still thinking of trying Warcry out, and I have Warriors, Reavers and a Khorgorath.
Bloodbound - 12 fighter cards provide profiles four types of Blood Warriors, three types of Bloodreavers, two types of Wrathmongers, two types of Skullreapers and Khorgoraths.
Do we know what the four and three warriors and reavers variants are?
Is there a way to find that out, I am still thinking of trying Warcry out, and I have Warriors, Reavers and a Khorgorath.
No sign of the Khorne cards yet at a guess four types of Blood Warriors = Champion leader, pair of Goreaxes, Goreaxe and Gorefist, Goreglaive three types of Bloodreavers = Chieftain Leader, Reaver Blades, Meatripper Axe
No sign of the Khorne cards yet at a guess four types of Blood Warriors = Champion leader, pair of Goreaxes, Goreaxe and Gorefist, Goreglaive three types of Bloodreavers = Chieftain Leader, Reaver Blades, Meatripper Axe
We have a winner.
The aptitude card is in french, so I'm not posting it.
Hmmm cheaper points wise than I thought not enough in Magore's Fiends and Garek's Reavers to make a 1,000 point warband they come to 730 points combined if you run Garek as a regular Reaver.
The dice are just D6 but you should have a few dice that are different colour to your main dice to represent wild dice. They are red in the core game.
a 22"x30" play area and terrain something with a at least 1 storey approx 3" tall is recommended. The terrain sets have terrain layout cards but you can set up however you want you don't need the terrain cards. The core rulebook has the core set terrain cards printed in it so you could use those and approximate a core layout using the terrain you have.
You could knock up some counters easy enough - they are mostly for tracking wounds, objectives and activation markers. page 33 of the rulebook has images of the tokens you could copy and card mount or use suitable alternative markers. The terrain sets come with a counter sheet if you go that route.
highlord tamburlaine wrote: Curious what abilities the wrathmongers and skullreapers have, as there isn't much to differentiate them from the blood warriors stat- wise.
The skullreapers have a triple to do extra damage for every hit of the next attack action with 3 and less range they do. The wrathmongers have the quad that gives them a free move action then a free attack action - moreover, they have a bonus in strength equal to half the value with range 3 or less until the end of their activation.
The shield icon for blood warriors allows them to do damage on one enemy at 1'' by rolling a dice : 3-4, 1 damage, 5-6 damage equal to value.
Basic aptitude for all is Blood for the Blood God, which is exactly the same than for the bloodbound allies. Yep, that means free move or attack action if they killed an enemy with one of their attack action during their activation.
Don't look for defensive aptitudes here. All are offensive.
Lord Kragan wrote: Just now I'm reminded how ass balancing is in warcry. There's no reason you'd ever take the two-handed weapon reaver, just to start with.
Lord Kragan wrote: Just now I'm reminded how ass balancing is in warcry. There's no reason you'd ever take the two-handed weapon reaver, just to start with.
It's strength 4 as opposed to 3.
Which is meaningless. It is attack 3 vs attack 4. Run the math for a second. In all the scenarios the two hander falls behind.
Lord Kragan wrote: Just now I'm reminded how ass balancing is in warcry. There's no reason you'd ever take the two-handed weapon reaver, just to start with.
It's strength 4 as opposed to 3.
Which is meaningless. It is attack 3 vs attack 4. Run the math for a second. In all the scenarios the two hander falls behind.
Against toughness 3 and 4 it means something. One can argue (IMO correctly) the difference is insufficient to justify the same point cost but the fact remains it is more than nothing.
But re-reading I think I just misinterpreted what you said.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Galas wrote: TBH thats also happens a lot in AoS, specially with cavalry and their lances.
Yeah, there are a lot of weapons that are non-viable due to being inferior even on a basic mathematical level. GW clearly does not even run the grade school math required, or is hugely apathetic to the results. Probably both.
Against T3 it’s statistically a draw 66% of 3 attacks for a Meatripper versus 50% of 4 attacks for Reaver Blades T4 is marginally better for the Meatripper but not enough to make a difference. T5+ it’s 33% either way so better to have the extra attack.
If they’d just tweaked them a bit more to make some meaningful difference in points or stats as it is the Reaver Blades just come out better.
Aptitudes are still in french, so I bet it's useless to post them here.
Khorne Daemons are a bit different than Bloodbound, in that the dogs have an aptitude giving them free move but they must end it closer to the closest enemy model at the end of their move. Their quad is for the dog leader only : it allows it to roll as many dice as the value, target an enemy at 8'' and for each 2+, it's 2 damage dealt. The dogs actually give a lot of mobility to the Khorne Daemons warband, I intend to take two of them in my own.
As for Stormcast, universal aptitude is gain a bonus in strength for melee attacks. Rest is usually deal more damage (only the castigator actually can deal a lot of damage at long range), with one "meh" ability for sequitor (they have a triple boosting their endurance equal to the value - they have 6 as base, so it's already high and not that useful to gain that much endurance for a triple). The Quad is only for their leader with the soul sucking box and deal damage equal to its value to all enemies within 3''. Leader give free move or attack if they killed an enemy with an attack action for a triple.
Thanks. So the Castigator Prime is missing the leader runemark
and the Evocators get no base magic attack despite being warrior-mages
EDIT the EtB Sequitors and Castigators will get you a 995 point warband if you run the Sequitor Prime (it's 1,010 with the Castigator Prime so that's over the limit) total cost £20 if you pay retail £16 at discount probably the cheapest compete warband to build. Stormsire's Cursebreakers would add another £15 and pretty much cover your Evocator needs.
2 Sequitor Etb kits will run to 970 pts. I'm sure there's boat loads of cheap ones knocking around from Mortal Realms issue 1 - that warband costs a grand total of £6 (€4 in Spain) if you got it that way.
DaveC wrote: Thanks. So the Castigator Prime is missing the leader runemark
Yeah...Same with the saurus knight leader...and I bet it's the same with the Sphyranx and Fomoroid, since they can't be taken in a warband as they are.
It really feels like they were rushed, honestly.
and the Evocators get no base magic attack despite being warrior-mages
It is translated in their aptitude : a Double that deals damage to an enemy at 1'' of them. You roll a number of dice equal to the value and you deal 1 damage for each 4+.
DaveC wrote: Against T3 it’s statistically a draw 66% of 3 attacks for a Meatripper versus 50% of 4 attacks for Reaver Blades T4 is marginally better for the Meatripper but not enough to make a difference. T5+ it’s 33% either way so better to have the extra attack.
If they’d just tweaked them a bit more to make some meaningful difference in points or stats as it is the Reaver Blades just come out better.
6s do 3 damage in all cases, which skews the number in favor of dual wield since 4 attacks is an additional chance to crit.
and the Evocators get no base magic attack despite being warrior-mages
Evocators don't use magic to attack directly, they used magic to charged their bodies and weapons, which released when they attack. Their double ability has a range of 1 (3 in aos) to reflect this.
Knight Incantor is the one who used magic to attack.
There are a number of cards that have the bonus hp, bonus damage, higher cost, and show a champion model, all things that have been exclusive to leader options so far... Yet they don't have the symbol. Given similar typos have been made elsewhere I suspect an errata is incoming.
I would love to hear feedback on if people find combined mortal/daemon armies to be too strong, it is definitely something I will consider house ruling into future campaigns.
NinthMusketeer wrote: I would love to hear feedback on if people find combined mortal/daemon armies to be too strong, it is definitely something I will consider house ruling into future campaigns.
The question is more about how aptitudes work if you combine them. Especially for those who have an aura affecting all friendly fighters, like the Maggotkins have - this is where it can become a bit too strong, IMHO.
Otherwise, I was thinking about mortal warbands treating daemons like thralls. That way, it's still limited in numbers and you can't just spam however you want.
What is the tier list of warbands for matched play? There is essentially no matched play community for warcry at my flgs (we're all campaign-focused) so I am totally out of the loop. Certainly curious though, especially because there's no way it is remotely as bad as AoS.
NinthMusketeer wrote: I would love to hear feedback on if people find combined mortal/daemon armies to be too strong, it is definitely something I will consider house ruling into future campaigns.
The question is more about how aptitudes work if you combine them. Especially for those who have an aura affecting all friendly fighters, like the Maggotkins have - this is where it can become a bit too strong, IMHO.
Otherwise, I was thinking about mortal warbands treating daemons like thralls. That way, it's still limited in numbers and you can't just spam however you want.
I was considering "friendly fighter" abilities becoming "friendly faction fighter" but the idea of making them thralls I really like. That also makes a lot of narrative sense.
for now. We've seen the Ogors somewhat confirmed from yesterdays 
). Split ! Split Again ! Oh look, I have free 250+ points worth of models on the table, now ! I think we'll be seeing a lot of pink daemons jumping from above and hurting themselves on purpose. 
What would Rotbringers have other than Putrid Blightkings and a Rotbringer Sorcerer? I doubt we'll see Pusgoyle Blightlords or Maggoth Lords and the Lord of Blights and Lord of Plagues are in the Monsters and Mercenaries book.
