Hey guys, Im just wondering who you think will win ard boys this year? What race do you think can produce the most beardy gooda to take down the title,"Best Cheesy List" award? Please post what race and more specifically what list you think it will be.

It would be interesting to see what people think the best list is, and then compare it to what actually wins.

I am biased I think I am going to win with my mech jet seer council eldar!!!! But you never know.

New marines will be out by then. I figure it'll be them if they can get their heads wrapped around the new codex. It's a strong list. Especially if they manage to land a successful Null Field power on you while countering fortune with their psychic hood.

New marines all the way.

They are stupid good, and the opponents wont have enough time to practice against them and master all of their numerous tricks by then.

Failing that, if Armored Company are actually allowed in the finals, then I figure that they will come out on top.

Allowed or not, unless they errata something to allow Armoured Company's tanks to score, they won't win anything as they can't control objectives. I suppose they could bring armoured fist squads, but that hurts the army's effectiveness.

Armored Fist squads are Fast Attack choices for them. To score they have to take Witch Hunter or Demon Hunter allies.

Aduro wrote:Armored Fist squads are Fast Attack choices for them. To score they have to take Witch Hunter or Demon Hunter allies.

Not true, in the forge world AC, they can take armoured infantry or whatever it is, so they can take troops in chimeras

And my money is on the best staregics with either be eldar or dark eldar with orks second

But the Ard Boyz isn't using the FW AC, it's using the one from the old WD/online pdf. So Armored Company has zero scoring units.

Imperial Armored Company will never win a tournament. They simply do not have enough close-in firepower to deal with a plethora of lists.

Any list based on 3 Landraiders.

Squats

Lemartes wrote:Any list based on 3 Landraiders.

If it's only 3, that's doubtful. I crushed a 2 LR + Sammeul in a speeder list in round one with my orks (no shooting above S7 list by the way).

4 would be extremely daunting for my army, 5+ doubtful. No enough turns for my nobz/WBs to kill them plus fight off whatever is in them/DP/DS on the table.

You had me until you mentioned Sammeul and speeders.

Try 3 LR Loaded with Plagues or Zerkers 3 more Rhinos with the same and splash in Abaddobadon for flavor. Tell me if you crush that list with orks and I will be impressed.

My votes goes to Sisters of Battle allied with Vulkan, unless they change how he works via FAQ, but this is unlikely.

Haven't we already had this discussion? How did it get over ten replies with no one mentioning orks? I feel like I'm playing an entirely seperate game from everyone sometime. Orks have the best odds at winning the 'Ardboyz tournament, because its the best codex and it scales adequately.

Sorry - I meant Sammeul was mounted in a speeder - so no shooting him with my list. Only speeder he had.

3 CSM LR would be troublesome...

But I think my list could handle it. PBs would be much worse then zerkers for me. Rhinos can be popped by almost any unit in my list. Would it be a crushing victory? highly doubtful. But I bet I could get a minor win on avg dice.

But enough bullsh*t talk - I wouldn't know until I played it.

I think most armies can handle 3 LR at 2500 points - orks being the ones most vulnerable (and maybe crons). It's when you get to 5+ that it's much more in the realm of "I win". I'm suprised that I haven't seen more of those lists being tossed about.

If I was going to bet on it, I'd put my greenBACKS on the green TIDE.

Eric

40kenthusiast wrote:Haven't we already had this discussion? How did it get over ten replies with no one mentioning orks? I feel like I'm playing an entirely seperate game from everyone sometime. Orks have the best odds at winning the 'Ardboyz tournament, because its the best codex and it scales adequately.

I'm with you here. I want to collect my ardboyz semifinal wins and free army in whatever area the new marine codex is considered 'Highly competitive and broken strong'

I think it will come down to the missions. Some armies are better at different missions then others. So don't think it will come down to what army as to what mission is being played and who the General of that paricular army is.

My votes goes to Sisters of Battle allied with Vulkan, unless they change how he works via FAQ, but this is unlikely.

This would be a scary list but probably not very likely to see it.

New Space marines with DH allies would be a crazy list!

Vulkan
1 INQ with a couple of Mystics, helm of DON'T DO THAT!, and a couple 1 point weapons mounted in a Land Raider.
2 5 man units of terminators with Heavy Flamers and 1 unit with a chainfist each mounted in a Land Raider Reedemer
2 full 10 man marine squads with flamers & Missile Launchers
3 Heavy Support Land Raiders

Thats 6 Land raiders,
10 terminators
Up to 4 scoring units of Space marines mounted in Land Raiders (just take one of the terminator Land raiders and have the Terminators deep Strike if need be for large objective Missions)

Plus 3 Twin Linked Heavy Flammers, 2 twin linked Flamers 2 twin-linked Multi Meltas on the LRR and a free shot at anything deep Striking close to you if the dice are with you.

I honestly can't think of too many ways to defeat that.

I'd take a well built he'stan army over orcs. It will prolly have enough melta's as well to take out land raiders.

groz wrote:Squats

I concur.

You guys can come up with any conjecture you want, but the army that's going to win will be Necrons again. This time in the shiny golden variety.

Orks all the way. They have the volume of players and the easy beardiness of lists.

An army with many Landraiders.

asugradinwa wrote:New Space marines with DH allies would be a crazy list!

Vulkan
1 INQ with a couple of Mystics, helm of DON'T DO THAT!, and a couple 1 point weapons mounted in a Land Raider.
2 5 man units of terminators with Heavy Flamers and 1 unit with a chainfist each mounted in a Land Raider Reedemer
2 full 10 man marine squads with flamers & Missile Launchers
3 Heavy Support Land Raiders

Thats 6 Land raiders,
10 terminators
Up to 4 scoring units of Space marines mounted in Land Raiders (just take one of the terminator Land raiders and have the Terminators deep Strike if need be for large objective Missions)

Plus 3 Twin Linked Heavy Flammers, 2 twin linked Flamers 2 twin-linked Multi Meltas on the LRR and a free shot at anything deep Striking close to you if the dice are with you.

I honestly can't think of too many ways to defeat that.

You can't take Land Raiders for both your Terminator squads, they're limited to one as a dedicated transport per type of Terminator squad. Still, it'd be 5, and that's going to take lots to bring them down.

Good point, Lets change one of those terminator Squads into a thunderhammer unit! Then you can sure have fun there & keep the land raider

Since we're talkin Land Raiders, how bout Stelek's 7 Land Raider fest Daemon Hunters?

Drop IG could do.

I beat Hordes Orks with Drop IG it wasnt easy but it can be done.

But Maybe Demons if done right. Chaos with there 2 bulids.

Well, I think Ork hordes have good chances.
Stelek's army with 7 LRs good as are CSM builds.

Im suprised no one is even talkin about the Jetseer councils of doom. They are the most survivable unit in the game. They mow through orks like a knife through butter. Same with land raiders. I mean 2 full squads backed up by fire prisms and a few troops in bright lance serpents. Maybe add some banshees for the things in combat that the councils cant deal with.

With the psychic hood being nerfed to 24 inchs means that the councils can sit back and wait for the fire prisms and wave serpents to kill the librarian and then move in and wipe everything else out.

It might not be the winning list, but I think it will be top 5 for sure.
It has an answer for everything:
Chaos Builds(ROW) check
Ork Hoard(Seer councils) check
Land Raider Spam(Bright Lance, Fire Prism, Seer Councils) Maybe not fully checked but this list has a chance where most lists just dont.
New Marines(They are overpriced and Doomed squads die just as easy to shuriken catapults as everything else)
Half way checked because Steleks Drop pod Librarian army is just that nasty. They deny me psychic powers, but I ROW them so they basically cancel each other out.

So Jetseer council List has all the tools to take care of all the lists. I think that is more than most of the competative builds out there. Unless you have Psychic defence like Marines or deamon hunters you are pretty much done. And even if you have them this list has a chance.

BTW ORKS are not that good. We had 2 huge hoards in my ardboys tourney and neither made it to the semi's. The horde at 2500 points is just not that hard to shoot to death bit by bit.

40kenthusiast wrote:Haven't we already had this discussion? How did it get over ten replies with no one mentioning orks? I feel like I'm playing an entirely seperate game from everyone sometime. Orks have the best odds at winning the 'Ardboyz tournament, because its the best codex and it scales adequately.

I thought this was laughable.

Then I saw this.

ShumaGorath wrote:Orks all the way. They have the volume of players and the easy beardiness of lists.

Orks get destroyed at 2k points.

I can bring how many vehicles you can't touch? 6? 7?

SWEET.

I can tank shock you off objectives and fry you around mine, and score everything and you get zero kill points?

SWEET.

Please, play some actual games with Orks at 2500 points.

Gee, it's 3 lootas, 6 boyz, 3 stormboyz...and it gets destroyed by land raiders.

Nob Bikers are neat in their own way, then they get tank shocked and run away.

Sad day.

Orks win because you think they are great, the best, blah blah.

They're just another Codex you haven't figured out how to beat yet.

Hope you catch up soon, Marines will be out and when you try to squeeze in your army between 200 weaksauce guys and 50 hardcore guys...you're gonna have serious issues with your rock/paper/scissors theory.

I can bring how many vehicles you can't touch? 6? 7?

You're also one guy playing a list that is quite uncommon in a tournament format that you could easily lose despite never having played the winner. Hell, you could get crushed by a massively antitank tau player for a fourth place finish and let that ork player simply crush EVERYONE GOD DAMN ELSE. Please. You're not some sort of bizzare boss fight of the ard boyz tourny, and you should know that. Sorry about your M Bison marines not getting to be in everyones seventh round but thats not how this works. So you have a good list that does very well against a single popular variant list and pretty well against others. You can still be easily beaten in overall score by an Ork player that simply manages to beat every other army that has not been designed specifically to defeat it.

Hope you catch up soon, Marines will be out and when you try to squeeze in your army between 200 weaksauce guys and 50 hardcore guys...you're gonna have serious issues with your rock/paper/scissors theory.

I play mixforce tyranids. Just for reference. Cause, you kinda sound like you think I'm some sort of slavering Ork fanboi. Seven land raiders? Thats cute. I have a friend in the second round of the tourny running 20+ lascannons, 10+ meltaguns. 2 demolisher canons, and enough small arms firepower to pretty reliably kill a couple of marine squads in a game. Its fun picking our ideally suited opponents and pretending that thats all we are going to fight isn't it?

ShumaGorath wrote:

Stelek wrote:
I can bring how many vehicles you can't touch? 6? 7?

You're also one guy playing a list that is quite uncommon in a tournament format that you could easily lose despite never having played the winner. Hell, you could get crushed by a massively antitank tau player for a fourth place finish and let that ork player simply crush EVERYONE GOD DAMN ELSE. Please. You're not some sort of bizzare boss fight of the ard boyz tourny, and you should know that. Sorry about your M Bison marines not getting to be in everyones seventh round but thats not how this works. So you have a good list that does very well against a single popular variant list and pretty well against others. You can still be easily beaten in overall score by an Ork player that simply manages to beat every other army that has not been designed specifically to defeat it.

When you say massively anti-tank Tau, do you mean 9 broadsides? I win that fight too. Do you even play?

I don't even know what the Street Fighter reference is for, just to rant wildly? Good job, I guess.

Orks aren't beatable, and when 5 Redeemer/Crusader Marine armies show up at the finals--Orks are done.

Don't think so? At 2500 points? Gotta be kidding me.

Yes, really done. Anyway, you sound really "angry" over nothing. Did I injure your epeen or something by saying Orks aren't the be-all end-all?

ShumaGorath wrote:

Stelek wrote:
Hope you catch up soon, Marines will be out and when you try to squeeze in your army between 200 weaksauce guys and 50 hardcore guys...you're gonna have serious issues with your rock/paper/scissors theory.

I play mixforce tyranids. Just for reference. Cause, you kinda sound like you think I'm some sort of slavering Ork fanboi. Seven land raiders? Thats cute. I have a friend in the second round of the tourny running 20+ lascannons, 10+ meltaguns. 2 demolisher canons, and enough small arms firepower to pretty reliably kill a couple of marine squads in a game. Its fun picking our ideally suited opponents and pretending that thats all we are going to fight isn't it?

20+ lascannons and 10 meltaguns? How quaint.

Call me when it's 20 dark lances and 20 disintegrators.

i.e. Call when it's an effective army, not junk tossed together and called a good army (fyi, lascannons are BAD in 5th edition...clue your friend in--he got past the noobs in round 1, now it's time for real competition, hate to say).

I can run that land raider list up a tyranid players arse too, and they can do squat. Go ahead, "get me" with your dakkafaxes, your stealers, and your flyrants.

It rolls guard, marines, chaos, orks, necrons...wait, it rolls EVERYONE because NO ONE can kill that many tanks AND actually kill anything else.

Only Dark Eldar can beat the crap out of it AND still beat the crap out of other armies.

Good tournament players are aware of this shift in gameplay.

I'm just trying to enlighten everyone, sorry I offended you.

worsed list ive played is a 5 LR DH army, not enough turns, not enough terrain to hide in
tankbustas killed 2 in CC, deffkoptas with a buzzsaw killed another.
nob bikerz with klaw killed the 4th.
the last one survived and spent the whole game pissing me off with random lascannon shots.
even took a shot at my grots, and despite being TL, missed both times 0_o
i think the kid was just bugged that the grots killed his brother captain XD
(30 shots a turn for 3 turns, had to get some result)

screwed up the quote stelek

and do you mean dakkafexes?


an AC army is easy enough to beat, in objective games its even easier.
just not enough fire power and too many units these days can shoot from one table edge to the other and kill them in a few turns

Dark Eldar?

JD21290 wrote:worsed list ive played is a 5 LR DH army, not enough turns, not enough terrain to hide in
tankbustas killed 2 in CC, deffkoptas with a buzzsaw killed another.
nob bikerz with klaw killed the 4th.

How the hell did a deffkopta kill a landraider with a buzzsaw? They're str3 so on the charge with their buzzsaw they'd be STR7. Rear armor of a LR is 14 so they'd have to roll a 7 to glance.

JD21290 wrote:screwed up the quote stelek

and do you mean dakkafexes?


an AC army is easy enough to beat, in objective games its even easier.
just not enough fire power and too many units these days can shoot from one table edge to the other and kill them in a few turns

If you mean rail rifles, yes.

If you mean anything else, way wrong.

Stelek wrote:
Yes, really done. Anyway, you sound really "angry" over nothing. Did I injure your epeen or something by saying Orks aren't the be-all end-all?


I'm just trying to enlighten everyone, sorry I offended you.

You're not sorry at all. I find you very offensive. You're not trying to enlighten anyone. You're trying to show off by being a know it all and you're very rude on top of it. I find your arrogance irritating not enlightening. So why don't you grow up and have a civil discussion without putting everyone else down who has something to offer. And while you're at it, take a nice dose of humbleness. Because you are not nearly as clever as you think you are.

So, that's two for nerd raging is appropriate?

Anyone else want to explain how Orks blow away multiple Land Raiders?

Still waiting to hear how Orks fare so poorly againt Black Templars yet are still regarded as "the best" by so many.

Perhaps that should be "so few"?

Because like twelve people play black templars. Thats why. You will not win because an ork player will score higher than you and will never even play a black templar army.

Lol..another Stelek vs the World thread.

Yes, he's horribly uncivil, put most of what he says is true. I'm sure part of him revels in the chaos he creates, but when you think you're right, you're not going to get anywhere convincing people by pandering to their misguided thoughts. He'll layout his reasoning, smash yours, and be done with it.

Looking at a spammed LR army with flamer troops inside, I think it's a very tough list for just about any army. He mentioned DE being a viable threat, but that won't happen...too few DE players, and too many hordes to worry about for DL spam to be effective in general competition.

Stelek may be correct about orks not being able to handle 6-7 Land Raider Armies....but....

LR armies dont have the sheer killing power of ork armies. SOOOO....

...Orks dont have to worry about meeting LR armies, because orks are Top Teir and All LR armies are not.

You might win all your games with an All LR list, but you wont decimate your opponent as you might with an ork army, one that has lots of killing ability and is well made/run.

Orks have more opportunity to "Win Big" than a LR list will. You might win all your games with a LR list, but if an ork wins all HIS games, he's going to win bigger.

Orks have a much better chance of taking it all. LR lists are gimmicky lists, they wont take the 'Ard Boyz final.

He'stan marines will beat orcs with lots of twin linked flamers and have the twin-linked melta's to kill everyone else's tanks. Null zone librarian thrown in for council. Stir in pot. Enjoy.

Honestly, until we see the missions its all heresay. The missions could screw orcs. The missions could screw 7 land raiders. Who knows.

Beerfart wrote:Stelek may be correct about orks not being able to handle 6-7 Land Raider Armies....but....

LR armies dont have the sheer killing power of ork armies. SOOOO....

...Orks dont have to worry about meeting LR armies, because orks are Top Teir and All LR armies are not.

You might win all your games with an All LR list, but you wont decimate your opponent as you might with an ork army, one that has lots of killing ability and is well made/run.

Orks have more opportunity to "Win Big" than a LR list will. You might win all your games with a LR list, but if an ork wins all HIS games, he's going to win bigger.

Orks have a much better chance of taking it all. LR lists are gimmicky lists, they wont take the 'Ard Boyz final.

Actually, it's 95% of the armies being run that can't handle LR armies.

LR armies do indeed have the killing power of Ork armies.

When you run into 5 Redeemers annihilating your army, don't cry for mommy k?

LR armies, sad to say, are indeed 'top tier'.

Hmmm I tried 5 different Ork players with my LR army. (Among quite a few other armies.)

Only Eldar with resilient units like Wraithguard and Councils lasted against it. Dark Eldar crushed my head in, but most people don't own them and I've seen few DE armies that are built properly or run well.

I tabled all the Ork players willing to play me, along with most of the other armies.

Not sure how an Ork player is going to win bigger, given the scenarios don't really help them "win big"--no more than any other army.

LR lists aren't gimmicky. 180 Orks, now that's gimmicky. Sadly, I don't know if anyone is ever going to get that...

Stelek wrote:Actually, it's 95% of the armies being run that can't handle LR armies.

When you run into 5 Redeemers annihilating your army, don't cry for mommy k?

Hmmm I tried 5 different Ork players with my LR army. (Among quite a few other armies.)

I tabled all the Ork players willing to play me, along with most of the other armies.

Are you able to read? Oh, sorry, I guess your ego got in the way and you didnt read my full post.

I just said that Orks would probably have trouble with that army.

95%? I guess Space marine drop pod lists featuring lots of melta cannot handle it eh? Perhaps RR mech featuring lots of melta? We never see those lists at tournements. Your land raiders wont survive an encounter with armies like that...and there are plenty of them out there....especially after sternguard become commonplace. 6-7 LR's become 6-7 burning wrecks after encountering a drop pod list out of the new Codex (or even light mech). Good luck wasting all of those marines that drop in front of you with combi and regular melta's with your 2 Inquisitor units....not gonna happen.

But you're right, your raiders are safe, Drop pod and mechanised marines do indeed account for only 5% of the armies out there, especially with this really poorly written marine codex.

When someone actually WINS BIG at a tournement with 7 landraiders we'll know I was wrong. Until then I think we'll CONTINUE to see Orks frequently on top of the pile, WINNING TOURNEYS.

Arent you due to keep ruining someones podcast? I think we've had enough bad advice for one night.

Not sure how an Ork player is going to win bigger, given the scenarios don't really help them "win big"--no more than any other army.

Well, Orks and LR armies have both the potential to annihilate enemies.

Beer, you talking is like watching a train wreck in slow mo.

Painful, sorrowful, yet incredibly boring.

Stelek wrote:Beer, you talking is like watching a train wreck in slow mo.

Painful, sorrowful, yet incredibly boring.

Agree with the land raider list, because to best that list you have to be taliored to beat it, and the land raider list can beat other stuff too.

Sadly, horde Orks have become a little too mainstream to win it all. Whatever army does it will probably be one similar to Stelek's. A hunk of gorgonzola few people have ever thought of, and very, very few have played against. After 1 or possibly 2 games against horde orks, both players know just what to expect, and the opponent will have some plan for dealing with the army. I'm not saying 7 landraiders is unbeatable, anymore than 180 boyz are unbeatable.

It does take a drastic change in tactics and army list to do so. In the confines of an 'Ard boyz tournament, I don't think even a comparative player will be able to adapt to such a bizarre challenge quickly enough to play at their normal level. Thus, by taking something no one expects you can expect to make your opponent play more poorly than he would be able to against a conventional threat like horde Orks. Whatever wins it will have enough shock value to throw off the other player, as well as the stopping power to down their army.

Of course, you'll also need the luck to avoid the foil to your hyper specialized list.

Yes, he's horribly uncivil, put most of what he says is true. I'm sure part of him revels in the chaos he creates, but when you think you're right, you're not going to get anywhere convincing people by pandering to their misguided thoughts. He'll layout his reasoning, smash yours, and be done with it.

It goes a little more along the lines of shout his reasoning, but not fully cover any one angle of it. Loudly insult anyone with a moderate or conflicting opinion, then laugh and proclaim that he has won the argument.

Basically he argues with all the force and skill of a four year old that really wants that toy on the shelf.

The new marines may fit that category, as they're so new that people may not have all the potential builds mapped out. Lots of potentially powerful builds, little time to wargame and prepare...at least some people will go into the tournament having heard of the landraider spam option.

right, enough debate. Some rules.

Number 1: I R_ W I N
number 2: Acknowledge rule 1

but seriously, my monies on the space marines :S

Stelek wrote:Beer, you talking is like watching a train wreck in slow mo.

Painful, sorrowful, yet incredibly boring.

Yea, and reading your ideas on strategies/tactics is like masturbating with a cheese grater....

Mildly amusing, but mostly painful.

I just got my hands on the new marine codex and sat down to plan out my next project which is white scars. I was playing around with a build for ard boys and i came up with this. It would own a land raider spam list with alot of move 12 and fire 24 inches melta loving. Can even shoot orks up pretty good and then get stuck in combat with str 3 against T 5.
Here it is:

HQ

205
Khan
135
Chaplin on bike
320
Command squad w/ 3 storm shields 2 PF and Champion

TROOPS
265
7 Bikes w/PF and dual flamers
1 attack bike
290
8 Bikes W/PF and dual flamers
1 attack bike
235
5 Bikes W/ Dual melta PF
1 Attack bike w/ Multi Melta
235
5 bikes w/ Dual Melta PF
1 Attack Bike w/ Multi Melta
255
7 Bikes w/ Dual Flamers and PW
1 Attack bike
255
7 Bikes w/ Dual Flamers and PW
1 Attack bike

FAST ATTACK

120
3 Attack Bikes
100
2 attack bikes w/ multi melta
100
2 Attack Bikes W/ Multi melta

Thats 59 Bikes with 13 attack bikes. 6 of them have multi meltas broke into 4 squads. Its like a Marine should be. Able to move 12 rapid fire and assualt 6 with toughness 5. And you can have 2 specials per squad. And I can combat squad stuff too to split up the fun. All that combined with the uber command squad.
They are all T5 w/ FNP and there is 3 3++ and 2 4++ models in the unit. All attacks reroll to hit on charge w/ furious charge and hit and run. This unit can hit you, survive long enough to disingage in your turn and then hit you again. They are just nasty.
Help me pick this list appart and find its weaknesses. I can't seem to see any.

Give it up, you cannot beat the LR spam list....

....whats the point in trying?

You know what will be fun? Going to 'Ard boyz and playing against 50 or so LR spam armies! I mean, nothing can beat them, so why would anyone bring anything else?

I should gather up everyone's Land Raiders at my FLGS to give myself a test game against the LR spam just to see how I do. Stelek thinks I'd be dead, but I dunno, so many long range Gauss, I think I could give em a run for their money at least.

It must be nice to bring the army that will have a good chance at winning unless they face a LR army, but if you do your dead. Its actually much more likley that the anti-LR army some people seem to belive are out there in tons is knocked out of the tournament in r1 when they DS all their meltas into Orks or any other of the numerous hordes that are out there. While at the same time the LR based armies are in pretty good shape against almost anyone that isnt built to handle just them.(and even then they are not as dead in the water as the orks are when facing LR spam). To top this off Marines can build many other variants that will be highly effective, some with LRs and some without.

You will probably not see to many since it will be too new still, but it will come.

=I= Edit: Rules Violation_Baiting -grey_death =I=

To end it all, Steleks arguement in this case seems pretty right.

Wow, somebody call GW and tell them their game is broken!! Stelek figured it out!!! Thankyou Stelek for your grand enlightenment.

So fellows, if you're not playing at least 5 landraiders in the 'Ard Boyz just save your gas and stay home. If you're playing orks... well I'm sorry. You'll just have to find a new game.

By the way, Stelek, I'm not angry nor was I "raging". I was simply pointing out that the way you communicate on these boards makes you look like a complete @ss. Which I'm pretty sure you are at this point. And by the way, the only one "nerd raging" in this thread is you, Mr. 6500 posts in one year.

For the record, I think my Necrons could take your LR spam. Not that I would play you.

Gentlemen, Stelek won't be able to reply for a bit. Please continue to talk amongst yourselves.

jfrazell wrote:Gentlemen, Stelek won't be able to reply for a bit. Please continue to talk amongst yourselves.

Wow...that's fairly ominous sounding. Not entirely surprising...despite the rough edges, Stelek does present some unique (and effective advice).

I haven't seen much talk regarding Mech Eldar. The LR spam is a good bet, new SM is a good bet for the sheer fact that someone could discover that awesome setup that no one is prepared for, Orks perhaps just because of sheer number of entries, although many people are building towards beating Orks now, almost to the point that people focused on MEQs in the previous edition.

But Mech Eldar have always been a powerful and difficult nut to crack, and there really aren't easy builds to defeat them with. Seems as good a chance as any to win.

The Orks are going to have fits trying to deal with LR spam that's for sure. Unfortunately, I have a really tough time with a well played Ork horde army. At 2500 points there are just too many wounds on the table to bring them down. If I had to decide between facing LR spam or 200 orks, I'd choose the land raiders. At least LR can't sweeping advance- where necrons really suffer.

I've been eyeing some Daemon lists lately in the local tournament scene that have been doing very well. I beleive Daemons might be more of a contender than people currently think.

I can't make up my mind as to which army to play in the second round. I won the first round with my Ork bikers but I am considering CSM's in the second round.

I regards to Stelek... his argument style is to make the other poster look like he doesn't know what he is talking about... not to attack the argument itself Its a variation on the "I'm louder so I am right" style. BUT he does have very good insight and a different take on things.

In regards to the Ard Boyz?
I said it before and I will say it again... These are the Players who will win (provided they are on top of their game) and the armies they will win with:
John Blake or Adam Millman (BA dante + corbs combo)
Brad Nickles (CSM Lustwing variant)

How does the CSM list win vs the top 2 armies discussed here?

Vs 7 LRs. 24 termis drop in next to an icon, don't scatter then hit the LRs with combi meltas or Power fists. The Winged Princes can assault them and kill them. The 9 oblitorators pound them with lascannons. Not to mento the Meltaguns in the troop choices. Every unit in the army has the possibility to take down a LR.

Vs Horde Orks. Lash the orks back and pound them with plasma cannons from the Oblits. DS the Termis in on the Lootas and kill them with one round of shooting. case closed.

BA vs the 7 LR list. Each unit again has a chance to take down the LRs. either by rending or with a PF or a melta somewhere in the unit. Not to mention the 9 Multi Melta attack bikes and the Lascannon tanks. Yes I know they die to a single LC shot but we will assume you know what you're doing and will use either rhinos or terrain to not get shot 1st turn or the turbo boost to get 3+ cover saves turn 1 while you move into position to kill 1 LR per turn with each unit.

BA vs the Horde.... if the horde moves up turn one its game over for the orks. Turn 2 the BA assault with units that will kill 30 orks in one round of combat easily and can take a charge from 30 orks mathematically. Dante + corbs makes the Death company killer and the assault squads with dante even better.

These guys I have mentioned will win this year and they will win with the lists I have mentioned Not being cocky I am just talking smack since these are the guys I play/test with all the time.

Strong statement frgsinwntr. Is this just bravado on your part or are you willing to make a wager? Are you so sure that one of your 3 friends will win?

if you are going to the Baltimore GT... Where they will win. I may make a a friendly wager A beer or something like that.

Yeah, I imagine you coast dwellers are due to place, if not win this year. After all, if the landlocked states keep beating everyone, you poor players will probably have to start playing Warmachine or AT-43.

If it matters, it seems Orks won the Chicago GT.

Amazing, somehow none of the multiple LR lists came out on top.

You guys can quit primping stelek now.

Yea, kinda funny how there's all this talk about how Horde orks cannot fight multiple LR's, LR's are becomming increasingly commonplace, and yet a Horde Ork player dominates the Chicago GT by scoring top battle points out of EVERYONE there.

Apparently Orks dont have as much trouble with them as everyone thought. Either that or its clear that Orks, obviously ARE a top teir army that dont have to worry about LR spam....which isnt.

Deadshane1 wrote:Yea, kinda funny how there's all this talk about how Horde orks cannot fight multiple LR's, LR's are becomming increasingly commonplace, and yet a Horde Ork player dominates the Chicago GT by scoring top battle points out of EVERYONE there.

Apparently Orks dont have as much trouble with them as everyone thought. Either that or its clear that Orks, obviously ARE a top teir army that dont have to worry about LR spam....which isnt.

QFT

Well, how many Land Raider spam armies were at the GT?

no idea... I am surprised by the types of armies that are represented... lots of orks, lots of chaos no sisters... no DH

There may not have been any 7LR lists, but you KNOW people are bringing them en masse.

They're the new Falcon.

Don't forget that horde orks also won 100 battle points at the LVGT, and beat the jetbike council the night before.

Deadshane1 wrote:There may not have been any 7LR lists, but you KNOW people are bringing them en masse.

They're the new Falcon.

For twice the points, half the utility, and the same survivability. I wouldn't really put them on the same tier as the fourth ed falcon. That vehicle made the eldar army. The new land raider is just somewhat overwhelming en masse.

The scar bike list can toast the LR spam... it just packs too much heat that can rip those adamantium hulls.

G

i still say salamanders. flamers en masse for the orcs and just enough melta's for the land raiders and everything else.

lets see what the new marine dex brings.

and still like i said before, until we see the missions who can really say for sure?

Dear Beerfart, I see a crusader army or two in the top ten, don't know if they were Landraider.

Dear Deadshane, if anything is broken its Orks, I've been saying it, no one cares, it is filtering down to the local hobby stores as well where every player seems to have, well, Orks. The 40k wreckingcrew.com, devoted to total tournament domination (is that greek for ruining other people's fun) has chosen Orks as their top codex. This tells me which codex is broken.


To the White Scars player-yes, multimelta and melta spam beats Landraider spam. Now what are you going to do against Orks on turn one when he lays an average of 90, but maybe 145 strength 7 shots into your bikers, some 30-45 saves? And that may not even represent the optimal Ork build, but its good for starts I would say. Then you'll wish you had the landraiders.

To the player who said that Blood Angels will win, DITTO above argument, what blood angels build can survive losing two to four units before reaching the enemy?

Do Orks scale up? I don't know, I don't play at that point level. But, theoretically I can see that Orks already have their best firing line at 625 points. They can't scale that up. Rocket Launchers scale up, there's a rumor that you can throw numbers at a problem. Landraiders waddling around with no weapons aren't pretty. Power Claw warbikers might work better than Stelek alluded also.

I've noticed, in my amatuer experience, that Orks are virtually fearless, kill one ork, reroll for morale. Makes them very tough. but, kill points are funny. Kill a truck, get a kill point. I don't think I'd like to put 5, 6 or 7 Ork Truks on a battlefield at 2500 points. Its too many potentially free kill points if the enemy is playing just 7 Landraiders. So maybe truks don't scale up well either.

Not that I won't be pleased if Orks win Aardboyz as well. Goes to prove my thesis about the Ork Codex ruining the game.

I don't think Orks like Necron Monoliths much either, but how do you hide the Necron Warriors.....

ShumaGorath wrote:

Deadshane1 wrote:There may not have been any 7LR lists, but you KNOW people are bringing them en masse.

They're the new Falcon.

For twice the points, half the utility, and the same survivability. I wouldn't really put them on the same tier as the fourth ed falcon. That vehicle made the eldar army. The new land raider is just somewhat overwhelming en masse.

How is a LR twice the points of a falcon? Superfalcons generally costed upwards of 220+ pts.

They may not be on the same teir as a 4e falcon, but no other tank in 5e can claim so close of resiliancy.

mikeguth wrote:

Dear Deadshane, if anything is broken its Orks, I've been saying it, no one cares, it is filtering down to the local hobby stores as well where every player seems to have, well, Orks. The 40k wreckingcrew.com, devoted to total tournament domination (is that greek for ruining other people's fun) has chosen Orks as their top codex. This tells me which codex is broken.

You're complaints are almost identical to Starcannon complaints of the last Eldar Dex, Wraithlord complaints, Old Iron Warrior Complaints, Blood Angel complaints from back in the day, Dark Lance spam, ect, ect, ad nauseum....

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

To the White Scars player-yes, multimelta and melta spam beats Landraider spam. Now what are you going to do against Orks on turn one when he lays an average of 90, but maybe 145 strength 7 shots into your bikers, some 30-45 saves?

outflank and charge into a side? With troops that need to be wounded on 6's from the lootas in HtH?

...there are many ways to handle it.

I've noticed, in my amatuer experience, that Orks are virtually fearless, kill one ork, reroll for morale. Makes them very tough. but, kill points are funny. Kill a truck, get a kill point. I don't think I'd like to put 5, 6 or 7 Ork Truks on a battlefield at 2500 points. Its too many potentially free kill points if the enemy is playing just 7 Landraiders. So maybe truks don't scale up well either.

In your amateur experience, do you think maybe you have more to learn? Simply whining about the ork dex is a SURE FIRE way to lose against them. If you resign to defeat...thats it. I've seen lots of close games against this list, if you want to know how to beat orks...the winning list in particular, why dont you ask Bill Kim (centurian99)....he did so at Adepticon...and with Nids...NIDS! against all those Lootas, and no it wasnt a Big Bug list with 2+ armour everywhere either.

Not that I won't be pleased if Orks win Aardboyz as well. Goes to prove my thesis about the Ork Codex ruining the game.

They arent ruining the game, maybe they've ruined YOUR game, but people are still able to beat them. Orks are simply taking advantage of the fact that people are having trouble getting over the fact that all you had to do in the past to do well at a tournement was configure your game against MEQ and you would do awesome. Now you HAVE to be prepared for hordes as well....its throwing some people off, you sound to be one of them.

There's one difference between my whining and previous whining-the records from the Grand Tournaments. Evidence, cold hard fact.

A mere two tournament wins isn't "cold hard fact", it's anecdotal. I won the last two local tournaments, does that mean Necrons are over powered and broken? Actually, if you ask the local players, most say they are.

If it matters, it seems Orks won the Chicago GT.

It doesn't matter, since Ard Boys and GT are played at different pt levels.

In larger games such as Ard Boys there are implicit thresholds that have severe impacts on the outcome of the game.
An Ork army is not much more effective at 2500 pts than on 2000 pts.
This is certainly not true for a Marine like army.

mikeguth wrote:There's one difference between my whining and previous whining-the records from the Grand Tournaments. Evidence, cold hard fact.

Here's another cold hard fact.

Even if we assume that orks ARE broken and mega-easy to win with, people will STILL be bringing them to tournements in the most broken lists they can possibly come up with in order to win, and theres only two things people can do about it...

1) Nothing

2)...and like it.

Its sink or swim, get over your fear of orks and adapt, or resign to losing.

Orks arent that hard to beat. you just got to out think them hahah. The LR spam can be beating by Drop IG and other things not easy it's a tough list but not unbeatable.

Just my 2 cents

I'm gonna be like frgsinwntr and support my friends.

I have to agree with him that his friends have some good lists. Chaos is pretty good in the hands of a good player.

Friend with Dark Eldar won at my local store TOGIT and Avariel here qualified with her Armored Company with DH + WH allies. Just have to root for a girl to win Ard Boyz maybe they would have to change the name of the tournament then

Dark Eldar has the Dark Lances to kill land raiders and disentegrators to kill Orks.

AC has Anti tank rounds for land raider busting and battle cannons and demolishers to pwn orks.

I still like Mech Eldar though. Fire Prisms for templates for killing Orks and Bright Lance Wave Serpents for killing Land Raiders and Jetbike Seer Council is good against both land raiders and Orks.

Here's another cold hard fact.

Even if we assume that orks ARE broken and mega-easy to win with, people will STILL be bringing them to tournements in the most broken lists they can possibly come up with in order to win, and theres only two things people can do about it...

1) Nothing

2)...and like it.

Its sink or swim, get over your fear of orks and adapt, or resign to losing.

ghostmaker wrote:Orks arent that hard to beat. you just got to out think them hahah. The LR spam can be beating by Drop IG and other things not easy it's a tough list but not unbeatable.

Just my 2 cents

The problem with that is that most drop IG squads are very small, and if I recall the theoretical LR list properly, one or more have Inqs with mystics onboard. You get a landraider with the right weapon loadout nearby to fire at the deepstrikers first, and they may never get a chance to shoot those melta weapons.

without a doubt 7 landraiders is the toughest list out there.
3 crusaders and 4 regular.

Orks struggle with one landraider let alone 7.

good ork players kill 7 Land raiders easily...

you have 180 ork boyz. Ghazgull and a KFF mek. With good positioning all of your boyz get cover saves as well as a nob with a klaw and 2 of your units get rokkits. this means you have 6 rokkit shots per turn that... while not veyr likely to do much... can immobilize a raider for your nobs to pop. not to mention Ghazzie with his str 10 fist attacks. You can get this at 1750 pts.

what do you do with the rest? I think its obvious. Snikrot + 2 burnas in a unit... this will also kill a LR on the charge. 6 attacks with str 4 and 2d6 armor pen has a shot at doing something. that still leaves you with almost 500 pts to play with...

that means you have 6 str 9 pKs on the charge, 1 ghazzie, 2 burnas and 6 rokkits.... doesn't sound like much but if you're thinking this can't stop 7 LRs your dead wrong.

3 LR cruisadiers 4 LRs.
Turn 1: 7 LRs shoot.
16 TL assault cannon shots = 8 dead orks
9 TL HB shots = 4 dead orks
6 TL lascannon shots = 3 dead orks
Total dead 15. Orks still fearless...

Orks go and move up/run.

Turn 2: Cuisaders in range for hurricane bolters.
but you need to move to not get assaulted next turn
you kill off the one mob at 15. gj.

Orks go. they move up and run. if in range they waaaaaagh and assault. your raiders moved 6 inches they need 4's to hit. 5 pks on nobs = 20 attacks @ str 9
10 hits 1 glance 2 pen = 1 dead land raider and one disabled LR.
Ghazzie attacks 6 on the charge 3 hits 1 glance 2 pen 1 dead Raider.
Mind you I am ignoring the fact there is another 500pts left of orks SHOOTING at you.

Turn 3 you try to fight them off as best you can but turn 2 repeats itself and you lose to more raiders AND the stuff inside that comes out during the explosion.

turn 4 half your army is gone, the orks are weaker but they are still winning the attrition war... turn 2 repeats itself.

Seriously orks do NOT struggle with LRs unless they are shooting at them and if you are an ork shooting at a LR you need to get yourself some nobs with klaws. THATS how orks deal with armor.

Not disagreeing that orks can kill 7 land raiders, but they don't get 2D6 penetration with burnas anymore.

frgsinwntr wrote:good ork players kill 7 Land raiders easily...

you have 180 ork boyz. Ghazgull and a KFF mek. With good positioning all of your boyz get cover saves as well as a nob with a klaw and 2 of your units get rokkits. this means you have 6 rokkit shots per turn that... while not veyr likely to do much... can immobilize a raider for your nobs to pop. not to mention Ghazzie with his str 10 fist attacks. You can get this at 1750 pts.

what do you do with the rest? I think its obvious. Snikrot + 2 burnas in a unit... this will also kill a LR on the charge. 6 attacks with str 4 and 2d6 armor pen has a shot at doing something. that still leaves you with almost 500 pts to play with...

that means you have 6 str 9 pKs on the charge, 1 ghazzie, 2 burnas and 6 rokkits.... doesn't sound like much but if you're thinking this can't stop 7 LRs your dead wrong.

3 LR cruisadiers 4 LRs.
Turn 1: 7 LRs shoot.
16 TL assault cannon shots = 8 dead orks
9 TL HB shots = 4 dead orks
6 TL lascannon shots = 3 dead orks
Total dead 15. Orks still fearless...

Orks go and move up/run.

Turn 2: Cuisaders in range for hurricane bolters.
but you need to move to not get assaulted next turn
you kill off the one mob at 15. gj.

Orks go. they move up and run. if in range they waaaaaagh and assault. your raiders moved 6 inches they need 4's to hit. 5 pks on nobs = 20 attacks @ str 9
10 hits 1 glance 2 pen = 1 dead land raider and one disabled LR.
Ghazzie attacks 6 on the charge 3 hits 1 glance 2 pen 1 dead Raider.
Mind you I am ignoring the fact there is another 500pts left of orks SHOOTING at you.

Turn 3 you try to fight them off as best you can but turn 2 repeats itself and you lose to more raiders AND the stuff inside that comes out during the explosion.

turn 4 half your army is gone, the orks are weaker but they are still winning the attrition war... turn 2 repeats itself.

Seriously orks do NOT struggle with LRs unless they are shooting at them and if you are an ork shooting at a LR you need to get yourself some nobs with klaws. THATS how orks deal with armor.

Dont forget that inside each land raider is a squad with 2 flamers. That is a lot of dead orcs. Also he could just run regular land raiders at you and let you try and kill them while the crusaders decimate squads left and right. Plus you can move a land raider crusader 12 inches and still fire the hurricanne bolters and the assualt cannon, so you need 6's to hit it in combat. Orcs could get owned by 7 land raiders more often then not. Play and find out.

Question, do you think the Redeemers are even better than the Crusaders?

EmperorsGrandson wrote:

Dont forget that inside each land raider is a squad with 2 flamers. That is a lot of dead orcs. Also he could just run regular land raiders at you and let you try and kill them while the crusaders decimate squads left and right. Plus you can move a land raider crusader 12 inches and still fire the hurricanne bolters and the assualt cannon, so you need 6's to hit it in combat. Orcs could get owned by 7 land raiders more often then not. Play and find out.

You'd be nuts to get out... but no I didn't know that they could move 12 and still fire them. that makes the math a little different.. but then like I said you have the other 500pts in the ork army shooting

Hey... has anyone calculated the points total for 7 raiders?

Unless I am very wrong, which happens very often, you simply don't have enough points to make the things in the raiders worth anything.

Shrike78 wrote:Hey... has anyone calculated the points total for 7 raiders?

Unless I am very wrong, which happens very often, you simply don't have enough points to make the things in the raiders worth anything.

Here's the list: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/217981.page

Here's game 1: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/218131.page
Here's game 2: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/218133.page
Here's game 3: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/218134.page

I still say that Armoured company will win the tourney if anyone takes it.

Around 15 front armour 14 tanks that give out 12ish large blast templates, 9 HB shots on each russ. Perhaps make three of those demolisher russes for armour hunting in a pinch. Then another three hellhounds to add insult to injury if you think your Orks are smart for being behind cover. Add a bassy for flavoring.

All in 2500 points...

Yeah...I really don't see anything being as broken as that. Sure you have to table your opponent to win most games, but if they have anything left, you tank shock the hell out of them with three tanks at a time to move them far enough away so they cannot even contest an objective. Tabling an opponent shouldnt really be a huge issue. Perhaps one or two armies will give them a run for their money, but my money is still on AC.

Jesus, I hope I can gather enough russes by this saturday.

Drop Ig would do fine. I'd ask my enemy whats in each landraider and if mystics then I'd go a lil more away from it. And shoot it with Lascannons from my Sent's.

It's all easy to get around with Drop.
Orks arent hard to beat espcially at this high of pts lvl.
I've beaten them with Drop IG.

But I think Raider Rush With BT and or DH will do just fine in hard boyz

I think a well-made marine list would do amazingly well. And I don't just mean 30 sternguard spam with pedro.

Here's what I think a good marine army would have:

One of the special characters. Pick one, any, they've all got something to offer. Probably Vulkan.

Librarian or Chaplain, depending on preference. Probably Librarian for utility and support.

Thunder Hammer terminators. These things can kill anything in assault fairly easily bar monoliths or landraiders, and are incredibly tough. This is where the chaplain would go, if they went with him.

Sternguard - these guys are too cool to pass up. Stick them in a drop pod or a rhino, or combat squad them.

Either more sternguard or a venerable dreadnought - while the dread is often overlooked, it's incredibly useful in many situations. What, those Khorne berserkers have a champion with a power weapon and a lord with daemon weapon? Here, chew on this dread, hope you roll 6's to hit, 6's to glance with your krak grenades and do enough damage for me to care. See also: Bloodletters, any other scary-against-only-infantry unit. Dreads take care of those.

Lots of tactical marines. I mean lots. They're amazing, and can take incredibly good weapon loadouts. Flamer/missle with combat squads for some, maybe with multimeltas instead, and other weapon loadouts depending on preference.

Scouts in their speeder - drop armies aren't very common - but they can be very deadly, and more importantly they're next to useless if they can't manage to get the drops they need. The signal jammer would do well, and doesn't cost much especially at 2500.

Landraiders - they're just amazing in 5th. A Crusader carrying terminators or the redeemer carrying sternguard or something.


While sternguard are good, and Pedro obviously makes them even more useful, we all know that combined arms lists work much better than "I spam this and kill you hurr". provided they're run correctly. With marines, you have a plethora of GOOD units that are SOLID by themselves, that are now ALSO working in unison, and that's a recipe for death.

Even the LR spam army is a combined arms list - mystics, flamer units, etc. are all necessary. 7 LR by themselves aren't that great.

" we all know that combined arms lists work much better than "I spam this and kill you hurr". provided they're run correctly."
-Spellbound.

That's nonthink, a convenient myth. I don't know how it propogates in the face of the results, year after year. Unit spamming always wins. You take the best unit or combo, in the greatest numbers possible, and win.

What, those Khorne berserkers have a champion with a power weapon and a lord with daemon weapon? Here, chew on this dread, hope you roll 6's to hit, 6's to glance with your krak grenades and do enough damage for me to care.

The krak grenades are inconsequential when you consider the skull champion with 4 S9 attacks on the charge. I agree with the individual unit assessments, except for tac squads.

That's nonthink, a convenient myth. I don't know how it propogates in the face of the results, year after year.

Uh, flying circus was a dominant tournament fixture since the Eldar codex was released right up until the end of 4th edition. And the last 'Ard Boyz Tournament was won by Monolith /Destroyer spam. Iron Warriors used to dominate via Obliterator spam. How does unit spam not work again?

Wait, I think we are agreeing here. I'm trying to scoff at the "balanced army" theory. I think spam is the way to go. I need to edit my post.

Indeed, spam is the way to go in larger battles.

40kenthusiast wrote:Wait, I think we are agreeing here. I'm trying to scoff at the "balanced army" theory. I think spam is the way to go. I need to edit my post.

Sorry, I may have misread. I thought you were trying to say that spamming units being effective is a widely held, but false, belief (I have seen arguments about this elsewhere, so maybe I jumped the gun). Yeah, spam is and has always been successful.

No. I stand by my statement. Combined arms works more effectively than spam, it just has to be done right, and it very rarely is. One might call Stelek's list "landraider spam", but it employs combined arms as well. Without the units with flamers inside the landraiders it wouldn't nearly do as well against orks as it does, and without the mystics it could be vulnerable to any deepstriking army.

I believe a good unit in large numbers does well - but they have to be supported by other units that make up for their shortcomings or else they'll be dealt with easily.


And a skull champion with 4 S9 attacks on the charge still doesn't have good odds of killing a venerable dreadnought. Besides, I specifically mentioned power weapon, as I see those about 2/3 of the time. Obviously if something has the ability to deal with vehicles easily it won't do as well. It's the uber slaughter infantry units that it just laughs at, and saves you a lot of trouble.

anything with a space marine in it will win, but not chaos space marine they bad for peoples health.

No one said eldar? Tsk tsk. Come on .... who else randomly creates gods for humans to worship?

Maybe if it were a beauty pagent or a figure skating competition.

I still think BA and Chaos

Darrian13 wrote:Strong statement frgsinwntr. Is this just bravado on your part or are you willing to make a wager? Are you so sure that one of your 3 friends will win?

They advance to the next round

Sorry for the double post! but I may be full of Bravado but I am 99% of the time right!

Deadshane1 wrote:Yea, kinda funny how there's all this talk about how Horde orks cannot fight multiple LR's, LR's are becomming increasingly commonplace, and yet a Horde Ork player dominates the Chicago GT by scoring top battle points out of EVERYONE there.

Apparently Orks dont have as much trouble with them as everyone thought. Either that or its clear that Orks, obviously ARE a top teir army that dont have to worry about LR spam....which isnt.

To be fair, Shane, there weren't any LR-spam armies at Chicago (and LR spam at 1750 is a lot harder to do than at 2500). I took a 5-LR army to the Ard Boyz semis, and did less than optimally (i.e. I didn't place). It does take a certain level of skill to run, simply because to win a tournament, you need the massacres. That's tough to do with a LR-spam army that has few scoring units. Getting the win is relatively easy with LR spam, but getting the massacre takes a great deal of timing.

The more I think about it the more I'm inclined to say that Stelek will win it. Cheers!

Yeah, Wuestenfux is right, it's gotta be Stelek. He is simply, unbeatable.

So unbeatable that he didn't even go...

He said multiple times that he wasn't able to go to the Semi-finals. Although it sure is hard to beat someone that isn't there.

I know he did not attend the second round of the Ard Boy. He was too busy playing in an RTT at a store called Hasturs on Saturday.

I was replying tongue in cheek to your tongue in cheek statement that Stelek is unbeatable.

I was replying that his excuse for not playing in the second round was dubius at best.

I think a WELL played and WELL built which hunter army could beat stelek's LR spam and the green tide.


If you want to know what a well built 2500 sisters list looks like check out mine in the army list forum.

Darrian13 wrote:I was replying that his excuse for not playing in the second round was dubius at best.

Darrian13: Dude...the man's wife lost their baby. Your obvious lack of concern for fellow folks going through a very emotional and physically horrendous time is truely telling. For sake have some shred of common decency! When I lost my first son I had my LT tell me "get over it" and "the mission is more important leave your problems at the door." 15 years later I still hear her words and feel her actions were -ing bad and I hate her to this day but Dude your attitude and words are just as bad. I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy and I get paid to break things and hurt people! You may not like the guy (I know alot of folks don't here since I've lurked the site for two years) but you sir are being a DOUCHE.


Back to the unbeatable lists: The 7 LR Spam list is beatable. I used it against my buddies all Nurgle Daemon army, in the first round, and got a mudhole stomped in me. It was brutal and really humbling. I still finished in 3rd but I haven't lost in a 40K game like that in a looooong time. The 7 LR Spam list is really vulnerable to the scenario as well as an opponent's hot dice.

Both those things are not something you can control. He used his high T multi W DPs and Kugath to lay down the hammer. Between Breath of Chaos shaking / stunning me and then him assaulting and getting pens in HtH...man destoyed LR/LRC everywhere.

The two previous games I waltzed through a Nid Hybrid list and then stomped on a very good CSM Undivided list. I will admit that this was my first time playing with LR/LRC and WH/DH army type lists but hell after 19 years I thought I could swing it.

AoS