This, in my humble opinion, represents the "correct" size for 40k-scale titans.

Images were taken from the Apocalypse rulebook, the Emperor datasheet, Forge World, and my living room.
For titans without a known height (ie those that do not yet exist at this scale) height was determined by overlaying the warhounds provided in each image for comparison and adjusting the size until they matched up -
so in theory the warhound, warlord and emperor titans should be scaled properly to each other.
Taking the height of the warhound as about 10", or about 140 pixels, heights for the other two could be determined. Heights for the others were taken from the Forge World website.


This is, of course, only a rough guide, but I hope it might prove useful, or at least interesting.

For titans compared to real-life buildings, see this post.
For a comparison with Metal Gear, see this post.

Cool comparison. Where does the Reaver fit into this? How much taller than a warhound/shorter than the next biggest one?

The reaver is about 16" tall, according to Forgeworld. I'll add it to the next version!

The Imperitor is too small. Scaled it would be about up to your shoulder.

there were 2 or so other titans that are missing.

Tere is one called a Warmonger. It stood roughly to the Imperitors shoulder

I don't see a Reaver titan in there, which was roughly in between the warhound and the warlord.

Wrong. Assuming the scale comparison in the recent datasheet is correct (and since GW made it, it is) the imperator titan is sized correctly, relative to the warhound. And the size of the warhound is about 10".

Image updated.

The epic Imperator titan was not much larger than the warlord. He maybe should add a few inches, but hardly all the way up to his shoulder.

EDIT: Dreadnote beat me to it. Also, if I remember correctly, the Warmonger was just an Imperator Titan with different weapons. (Missiles instead of the hellstorm cannon I think, and something else instead of the Plasma Annihilator.)

Correct. The Warmonger is just another Emperor Class Titan variant(the only 2 known Emperor class variants are Imperator and Warmonger). Warmongers are for long range support and only appear shorter than the Imperator variant of Emperor Class(the use the same chassis) due to their spires being replaced with larger defense lasers.

The Dreadnote wrote:(and since GW made it, it is)

So you're trusting the word of a company that on a daily basis changes their mind on what happend in their own made up make believe world?

Foda_Bett wrote:

The Dreadnote wrote:(and since GW made it, it is)

So you're trusting the word of a company that on a daily basis changes their mind on what happend in their own made up make believe world?

Well he should, considering the scale comparisons he's showing are accurate when you compare the actual Epic models and extrapolate based on the fact that the Warhound and Reaver both exist in 40K scale.

Speaking of Warmongers and Imperators, I've noticed that the Data Sheet for the Emperor Class Titan lets you do all sorts of evil hybrid configurations.

While it drops all the point-defense weapons, and half-assed stuff like the battlecannons and AA autocannon batteries, which admittedly would be outrageous in a Warhammer 40k setting, it lets you take lots of Titan weapons instead.

Two Vengeance Cannons, with six Laser Blasters. Fun!

Nurglitch wrote:Speaking of Warmongers and Imperators, I've noticed that the Data Sheet for the Emperor Class Titan lets you do all sorts of evil hybrid configurations.

While it drops all the point-defense weapons, and half-assed stuff like the battlecannons and AA autocannon batteries, which admittedly would be outrageous in a Warhammer 40k setting, it lets you take lots of Titan weapons instead.

Two Vengeance Cannons, with six Laser Blasters. Fun!

I like the idea of a Plasma Death god version:
6 Plasma Destructors
2 Plasma Annihilators

BURN!!!!!!!

Jack

the pic is full of win

good info as well as humor
nice

and @ foda bett
would you rather take the word of the people actually making the fiction for the game, or the nerds that think they should write it all?
it doesnt matter if anyone else says it, if gw prints it, thats how it is

I know a lot of people have been calling the Imperator neutered" as far as armour and shields, but it actually has more weaponry mounts than I expected. That carapace is bristlin with killy.

Can you imagine that with 12 Void Shields? It's already worth far more than 4000pts. Have you seen the range on the Vengeance Cannons? It'll be unstoppable on any board greater than 30'x30'.

You better have some serious troop support to keep the deepstrikers away. Or they will rip the legs out from under it.

It'd certainly be something to see if someone could take down an Imperator in a 4000pt game. After all, there's not much that can Deep Strike and assault in the same turn, and I can't imagine much surviving its main weapons, particularly something like twinned Plasma Annihilators.

Yeah, but a few of its weapons will have that silly 36" minimum range issue. Still, this thing looks like it can be hilariously destructive.

"Hello, I has me a a 4000 point Deathwing army"
after one shooting phase later.

"Okay, wanna go again?"

This is great; you have things worked out pretty bang on in my opinion.

The apocalypse imperator is pretty shooty but i really wish they had it closer to the original. Its transport capacity is way too high and the weapons on its back are just wrong. but oh well atleast it kinda gives a starting point

krusty wrote:
and @ foda bett
would you rather take the word of the people actually making the fiction for the game, or the nerds that think they should write it all?
it doesnt matter if anyone else says it, if gw prints it, thats how it is

Well considering for years GW declared that a rhino could hold 10 marines and then they decided that it need an up scaling, or perhaps that marines are supposed to be taller then a normal human but they're shorter than cadians. How in the world can you even fit 52 models per leg in the undersized imperator?
What about the fact that a land raider can hold 12 marines and a crusader can hold 16 but neither one has a different interior.
What about terminators or catachans having any sort of normal anatomy?
I've seen many a picture where a shadowsword is bigger than a warhound, or where a phantom is the size of the empire state building.

I'm just saying that GW is a bunch of guys who have no clue what scale is and if they need to they'll retcon something next week if they decide they don't like it.

We're playing a game where space fungus (orks), space dinosaurs/insects (tyranids), space fish commies (Tau) space nazis (marines), space elves (eldar), space emo elves (dark eldar), space tentacle guys (chaos), space rambo (catachan), space nuns (sisters), space terminators (necrons), and the like all battle it out but no one ever seems to win.

I'm sorry but I just love it when people get all bent out of shape because they took the epic scale models and blew them up and all of a sudden they use those measurments as gospel handed out from the heavens.
GW makes models, they limit the size of things because they need to limit productions costs, so there really is no scale.

applauds.

I'm sure all of what you said has merit, Foda, but I don't think it applies.

These are models that GW is never going to produce at this scale. There has only ever been one version of their size at this scale. There is no inconsistancy here.

Though that doesn't bother me as much as your implication that even to think about working out the size of a model based on scale marks me out as mentally handicapped. I don't agree with your insistance that there is no scale here.

Well games workshop didn't get the transport all that wrong on there new emperor class they built. The original epic imperator titan could transports 25 bases of troops each base with 5 models on it. But out of that 6 bases were in each foot and the rest were in the main body which is kept cut off from the legs during battle. Only 30 in each foot were able to disembark for a total of 60

We all know by now that GWs scale is completely wacked. What dreadnote has here is probably the best titan scale comparison I have seen to date. If you took the epic models and took a picture of them in this order you would have almost an exact match. Same with the armorcast titans mind you they only released a reaver and warhound.

grizgrin wrote:You better have some serious troop support to keep the deepstrikers away. Or they will rip the legs out from under it.

My 100+ grey knights in the feet should do the trick.

Hmm.

I'd better get painting.

If it helps, here's an image of the unreleased Armorcast Warlord



http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/22277-.html?m=2&w=600

Oh lord look at that warlord!

If the epic models match up to this, it's either down to coincidence or consistant scaling - to be clear, nothing to do with epic was used in making it.

Thank you all for your kind words though!

Kid_Kyoto wrote:

grizgrin wrote:You better have some serious troop support to keep the deepstrikers away. Or they will rip the legs out from under it.

My 100+ Grey knights in the feet should do the trick.

Hmm.

I'd better get painting.

had this happen the other day in a rather large apocalypse game Grey knights couldn't take out a warhound.
walkers user front armor in hand to hand Grey knight max pen is 12 with there force weapons armor 14 Warhound just shrugged it off

lanman wrote:

Kid_Kyoto wrote:

grizgrin wrote:You better have some serious troop support to keep the deepstrikers away. Or they will rip the legs out from under it.

My 100+ Grey knights in the feet should do the trick.

Hmm.

I'd better get painting.

had this happen the other day in a rather large apocalypse game Grey knights couldn't take out a warhound.
walkers user front armor in hand to hand Grey knight max pen is 12 with there force weapons armor 14 Warhound just shrugged it off

I think he means 100+ Grey Knights inside the legs would help keep anyone from tearing apart the Imperator's feet.

ah ok then

I Seriously don't think the warlord is that small, in the artwork its at least 40" when scaled

Foda_Bett wrote:
Well considering for years GW declared that a rhino could hold 10 marines

Years back somebody actually converted an interior for the original Rhino, with a driver, engine compartment, working doors/hatches, and benches seating 10 space marines.

SonsOfLoki wrote:I Seriously don't think the warlord is that small, in the artwork its at least 40" when scaled

I think the artwork makes it appear huge because Imperators are rarely seen, so they keep displaying the Warlord as OMFGHUGE! instead. My Mk.II Warlord is 2 1/8" high to the top of the carapace (can't find my metric tape measure). That's 53.98mm, or just under 9 times the height of an Epic infantryman. 9 * 28mm ~ 10 inches

EDIT: *Looks back at chart* Wow, they must have REALLY scaled up the Warhound and Reaver when Forgeworld made 40k versions.

Noble713 wrote:..Epic infantryman. 9 * 28mm ~ 10 inches

You're calculation's fatal flaw is in this part of your statement. Problem is, you're multiplying 28mm nine times. The miniatures are not 28mm tall. They are in the 28mm scale range, but they are taller than that. It's all in the definition of the scale measurement. Miniature scales are defined by the distance from the soles of the feet (not including any type of base) to the eyes. A typically sized man (from 5'8" to 5'10" in actual height) would be sized to measure approximately 28mm from feet to eye level. Note that GW takes a great deal of artistic license with scale in every aspect of their IP from mini size to artwork to pricing. It's ALL out-of-whack.

At any rate, your mathematical outcome changes dramatically with the correct application of scale model theory.



Ghidorah

SonsOfLoki wrote:I Seriously don't think the warlord is that small, in the artwork its at least 40" when scaled

40k artwork does not have a great track record of being scaled properly. I wouldn't rely on it for any kind of measurement.

And seriously, the FW reaver is 18". Why would a warlord be 40" all of a sudden?

About time, the scaling is correct, there is some leeway for various models of titan. So the Armourcast/old Epic pattern Reaver and Warhound is slightly smaller, the design is canon its just made on a different Forgeworld.

These are the relevant figures:

REAVER 16" to 18"
WARLORD c24"
IMPERATOR c36"

Way too many titans being built are for some reason almost exactly one size bracket too large.

The Dreadnote wrote:

SonsOfLoki wrote:I Seriously don't think the warlord is that small, in the artwork its at least 40" when scaled

40k artwork does not have a great track record of being scaled properly. I wouldn't rely on it for any kind of measurement.

And seriously, the FW reaver is 18". Why would a warlord be 40" all of a sudden?

Case in point. GW lets its artists have a lot of flexibility, with emphasis being allowed to override scale. its an old technique:


Attack of the 50 foot pharoah or artistic licence.




You might wish to think this is an Imperatior, but its a picture of Imperius Dictatio the character Warlord titan. Note how it dwarfs mountains.


Here we have mountain sized warlord titans again. From the ground scale that thing is clearly several hundred metres tall.


But its not.

Canon scales for warlord titans are consistent and based on the models and most freehand art with the models in relation to other units. The graphic novel series Titan has some way out cover art but content art is a consistent 'accurate' Epic scale.

From Grahm McNiell's False Gods, "the Imperator-class Titan... stood forty-three meters tall on crenellated bastion legs, each one capable of mounting a full company of soldiers and their supporting troops." (p18)

I think the reason people are making these awesome and perhaps oversize titans is that the descriptions dont seem to match the sizes they give. I mean the spruce goose had a wingspan of like 90+ meters. Admittedly it was made out of wood instead of adamantium or whatever but they should have made the titans titanic!

Ahh where do I find the data sheet on the Imperiator Titan? I havent seen it yet.

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2440056_Imperial_Datasheet_-_Emperor_Battle_Titan.pdf

And for other apocalypse datasheets, see here.

Some things are small, and other things are far away.

The scale in Graham McNeil's book can't be right. That's too tiny.

Imperators are huge. Has anyone scaled the cover to Titan Legions, looking at the guys coming out of the Imperator's feet and then scaling it for the rest of the Titan?

Can I ask a stupid question?

In the original "scale" picture, I don't see the word "Imperator" anywhere.

Does "Imperator" = "Emperor" on that chart?

Thanks

Cool thanks Dreadnote

RiTides Nids wrote:Does "Imperator" = "Emperor" on that chart?

Imperator Titans and Warmonger Titans are all Emperor-Class Titans. So essentially they are all one in the same.

H.B.M.C. wrote:The scale in Graham McNeil's book can't be right. That's too tiny.

Imperators are huge. Has anyone scaled the cover to Titan Legions, looking at the guys coming out of the Imperator's feet and then scaling it for the rest of the Titan?

The Commissar at the top of the steps on the right foot (left in the image) is 1/4" tall (Epic scale, oddly enough). The Imperator is about 7 1/2". (7.5 / 0.25) * 2m = 60m. That's probably a conservative figure.

Actually I make the height of an imperator about 50m. Imperial Armour 3 puts the height of a warhound at 14m, so (14/10)*36 = 50.4m, or 165.4 feet.

Though looking at the sizes of some real-world objects, suddenly the imperator seems pretty small...

The Dreadnote wrote:Actually I make the height of an imperator about 50m.

Noble713 wrote:The Commissar at the top of the steps on the right foot (left in the image) is 1/4" tall (Epic scale, oddly enough). The Imperator is about 7 1/2". (7.5 / 0.25) * 2m = 60m. That's probably a conservative figure.

Where do you people keep pulling these wacky measurements from? Where do you get the data that has you "make the height of an Imperator about 50m"?

First off, the epic Commissar isn't 1/4" tall. He is 8mm (just under 1/4"). Epic 40k is measured in metric, not Imperial. Then you multiply 1/4" (imperial) by 2m (metric). 2m in imperial measurement is about 6.5 feet. As the Commissar is just a regular human male, not a genetically enhanced super-human (Space Marine) and the average height of a human male is 5'7" - 5'8", how can you justify multiplying him by 6.5 feet? After searching the 'net for "Average height of a human male", I found that most places list the average between 1.63m - 1.86m with some variations both ways. Most leaned towards the 1.74m-1.78 range, however. Taking that over to imperial, that's about 5"3" (I seriously doubt this to be an accurate representation of the human male average) to 6'1" (also not likely), with the more common average being about 5'7"-5'9".

I can't find my Imperator titan (thanks to Mrs. Ghidorah "cleaning" my basement) so I can't get an actual measurement to work out the math. This is a good thing, though, as I really suck at math.

FOUND IT! (take that, Mrs. Ghidorah!)

So, he's 135mm tall, from the bottom of his foot to the top of his tallest spire (back ones). 135mm or 5.3".

Epic 40k is 1/300 scale, so 1" equals 300". So, in real-world inches (if he were an actual war engine), he would be about 1590" or 132.5 feet tall. (5.3"*300 scale inches = 1590", then, 1590"/12 inches in a foot = 132.5').

Somebody see my prior statement about math and then check mine...



Point I'm trying to make, I guess, is A) you can't multiply inches by meters and, B) I'm hungry. The only logical way to determine a Titan's ACTUAL height, be it in real life or scaled for 40k, is by using the ONLY hard and fast ACTUAL evidence we have, and that is the Epic models. You can't go by art in a book, on a poster, in a comic book, words in a novel, or some tool's 3 and-a-half foot Warlord that he built out of PVC and Gummi Bears.

The artwork and novels are a terrible source for determining titan heights simply because each author or artist has their own representation. That's why they call it "artistic license". Even in the sidebar art in the Epic 40,000 rulebooks Titans are shown in different scales. On the cover of issue 4 of Firepower magazine, there's a Beetleback Warlord (Mk.I), the smallest of the Warlords with Marines at his feet. They don't even come up to the top of his toes...




Ghidorah

Ghidorah wrote:Where do you people keep pulling these wacky measurements from?

From the cover of the Titan Legions rulebook, as HBMC was just asking about.

First off, the epic Commissar isn't 1/4" tall. He is 8mm (just under 1/4"). Epic 40k is measured in metric, not Imperial.

The one on the cover of Titan Legions is 1/4" tall. Look at the base of the right foot, top of the steps, just in front of the central arch/doorway. I can't find any of my metric tape measures. I'm using the resources at my disposal.

2m in imperial measurement is about 6.5 feet. As the Commissar is just a regular human male, not a genetically enhanced super-human (Space Marine) and the average height of a human male is 5'7" - 5'8", how can you justify multiplying him by 6.5 feet?

Chalk it up to intellectual laziness.

Point I'm trying to make, I guess, is A) you can't multiply inches by meters

I didn't. 7.5 inches / 0.25 inches * 2 meters. The inches cancel out in the height ratio. The only unit of measure left is meters.

If you count this as evidence (and I see no valid reason not to) then a height of 50m is easy to obtain. The forgeworld warhound titan is about 10 inches tall, which gives you a rough imperator height of 36 inches, as you can see at the start of the topic. Imperial armour 3 also states that the warhound titan is 14 metres tall. Multiply that by 3.6 (because the theoretical imperator is 3.6 times taller than a warhound) and you get 50.4m.

I stress once again that I have not used epic miniatures in any calculations or images. I have used only forgeworld's 40k-scale titans, and the size comparisons published by games workshop for apocalypse. I see no reason why either of these sources is anything less than valid - though of course I am always open to correction.

Noble713 wrote:

Ghidorah wrote:Where do you people keep pulling these wacky measurements from?

From the cover of the Titan Legions rulebook, as HBMC was just asking about.

First off, the epic Commissar isn't 1/4" tall. He is 8mm (just under 1/4"). Epic 40k is measured in metric, not Imperial.

The one on the cover of Titan Legions is 1/4" tall. Look at the base of the right foot, top of the steps, just in front of the central arch/doorway. I can't find any of my metric tape measures. I'm using the resources at my disposal.

I will point you to my reasoning that you can't go by artwork. Let alone, artwork off of a box lid.

The Dreadnote wrote:I have used only forgeworld's 40k-scale titans, and the size comparisons published by games workshop for apocalypse.

Fair enough. Sound logic as far as I'm concerned. I would also like to point out that, until your post here, I was unaware of that GW Datasheet.

Plus, 36" sounds about right for an Imperator to me. That would be about how tall I would make it, were I to undertake that project. What irks me to no end is when people make Warlords that big.



Ghidorah

Ah, then we're of the same mind on the subject. Glad to have enlightened you!

Edit: I've added that link to the original post, to save confusion in future.

IIRC, recently when reporting on FW open day in the UK a poster stated that the FW guys use a X6.5 to scale Epic vehichles/titans up to 40K scale.

Commodore Perry

I thought at a games day they made an imperial and chaos imperiator titan-for the siege of the emperors palace. And im sure there are pictures of it on the net. cool idea

dirkthe1 wrote:I thought at a games day they made an imperial and chaos imperiator titan-for the siege of the emperors palace. And im sure there are pictures of it on the net. cool idea

The only diorama I know of like that features Mk.III Warlords. And, IIRC, they were frickin' huge.

http://www.sodemons.com/gwmuseum/chaostitanx.jpg

Ya, that's way too big.

Noble713 wrote:

dirkthe1 wrote:I thought at a games day they made an imperial and chaos imperiator titan-for the siege of the emperors palace. And im sure there are pictures of it on the net. cool idea

The only diorama I know of like that features Mk.III Warlords. And, IIRC, they were frickin' huge.

http://www.sodemons.com/gwmuseum/chaostitanx.jpg

Ya, that's way too big.

And the thing is, in a universe with titans of that size, why would the walls be so low?

Noble713 wrote:

dirkthe1 wrote:I thought at a games day they made an imperial and chaos imperiator titan-for the siege of the emperors palace. And im sure there are pictures of it on the net. cool idea

The only diorama I know of like that features Mk.III Warlords. And, IIRC, they were frickin' huge.

http://www.sodemons.com/gwmuseum/chaostitanx.jpg

Ya, that's way too big.

Could be bigger...

combatmedic wrote:

Noble713 wrote:

dirkthe1 wrote:I thought at a games day they made an imperial and chaos imperiator titan-for the siege of the emperors palace. And im sure there are pictures of it on the net. cool idea

The only diorama I know of like that features Mk.III Warlords. And, IIRC, they were frickin' huge.

http://www.sodemons.com/gwmuseum/chaostitanx.jpg

Ya, that's way too big.

Could be bigger...

Could be female... You know, from a "Women of the Adeptus Titanicus" diorama or something?
You could make the chest armor be *actual* rocket boobs...



Ghidorah

I dunno exactly how tall the model was, but using an extremely rough estimation, it looks about imperator size. The one-bracket-higher effect strikes again!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I've updated the image to include the Tyranid Heirophant and the Eldar Revenant titans. Mainly because I could.

Size comparison round 2 - Titans versus The World



Building images courtesy of Jeff Russell's Starship Dimensions, the most awesome site I know of for anyone interested in the relative sizes of spaceships (and who isn't?).

When you put them up next to such monuments...they kinda loose their awe factor...

lose.



Ghidorah

Tizz wrote:When you put them up next to such monuments...they kinda loose their awe factor...

Untio you picture the transport they walked out of.

Noble713 wrote:

dirkthe1 wrote:I thought at a games day they made an imperial and chaos imperiator titan-for the siege of the emperors palace. And im sure there are pictures of it on the net. cool idea

The only diorama I know of like that features Mk.III Warlords. And, IIRC, they were frickin' huge.

http://www.sodemons.com/gwmuseum/chaostitanx.jpg

Ya, that's way too big.

thats the one-seige of the emperors palace-its a very good diorama with 2 titans and a chaos mole machine, etc ,etc.


persoanally i think they look the right size there, although they should be massively tall.

the point about the transports is a good one-im sure in the fiction thats in WD with the diorama photos it suggests the transports are collossal

2 points,

Theres no point in bitching about scale accuracies because the scale for 40k vehicles is off anyway. All of the vehicles are smaller than they should be compared to the infantry models.

The scale Dreadnote has used seems accurate when you take into account the 'all vehicles are smaller than they should be' business.


& as for the transport thing, emperors having any transport capacity at all seems a bit off to me, especially in the legs. The troops would be shaken about too much by the rise & fall. I initially thought 'maybe theyre strapped down, like in drop pods', but even then theyd be so shaken by the time they got to the deployment zone they'd be in no condition to fight.

What are the stats for the dreadnote? does FW make 'em?

Some say it was the greatest model ever cast. Fully posable and highly detailed down to the tiniest scale, it took 9 months to assemble and paint. Unfortunately only one was ever made.

The stats it's maker intended for it are however several orders of magnitude higher than those it is possible to represent in warhammer 40k. Even if you were to water them down, using The Dreadnote in a game would be tantamount to an "I WIN" button.

The Dreadnote wrote:
This is, of course, only a rough guide, but I hope it might prove useful, or at least interesting.
For titans compared to real-life buildings, see this post.

Hi, very interesting work, I think your are in right way.

I’m currently working on epic class vehicle (take baneblade,reaver and warhound epic/40k as reference), but I have much hesitation concerning the issue of scale conversion. I found the old rule-of-thumb used by the former US Forgeworld team (Tim Dupertuis and Mike Biasi). They applied a multiplicative factor of 5.25 ; although this would result, now, in a slight decrease in scale compared to the current forgeworld . My idea was using the current GW Baneblade (reaver and warhound too) as a reference for calculate new factor.

That would give me a factor of roughly 6.75 : thus the big Epic vehicle would be of very playable size.

for example the warlord with this factor must be 22" (more or less 1" according to the way of measuring)


But I think must take more comparison of vehicle for have the "perfect" factor.

I think you'd find it quite difficult to find a "perfect" factor; as has been discussed here, scale is used somewhat inconsistantly by GW. Still, I wish you the best of luck with your project!

Hi all.

With regards to cover art and awe factor and 'fluff' titans should be as big and impossibly impressive as possible. However, for a game of 40K I think those scales are pretty acurate and are very similar to what I came up with myself, working from epic, forgeworld and various other sources. I came up with the simple formula that each titan is two thirds the height of the next one up. This even fits in with battleknights - mine and from what I have seen, many of those made by others are about 2/3rds the hieght of Forgeworlds warhounds. Some pictures are off but bear in mind bent legs etc. It works fine with titans in a stationary position, not a walk.

The Dreadnote wrote:Size comparison round 2 - Titans versus The World



Building images courtesy of Jeff Russell's Starship Dimensions, the most awesome site I know of for anyone interested in the relative sizes of spaceships (and who isn't?).

Most point to this and say it looses the "awe". I personally think it makes these things seem that much more believable.

Myth busted.

Hmmm King Kong is about the size of a Warhound... interesting.

Godzilla is between one and two Imperator Titans tall... that really makes those Bio-titans seem dinky.

The bio-titans are the smaller breeds though. I hadn't considered king-kong but I guess that's about right too!

What myth will you break next? lol

Please remember that the titan weapons were interchangeable between the 3 smaller classes of titans. A reaver could mount warhound weapons, and a warlord could mount reaver and warhound weapons. If your 40k scale warlord does not look good/appropriate with the warhound weapons from forgeworld on it, you might have the wrong scale.

After seeing the size comparison picture I can imagine Hierophants swarming over the Empire State Building like tiny insects.

hmmm. how tall in feet is the warhound titan supposed to be?

We are 1/108. (rhino's and other tanks seem to be a little less.)

I know that our 6" movement only tends to be about 30-ish meters. (quite a way, really) judged by the fact that the average pistol's average range is 160 ft. (in game.) therefore, a bolter can shoot 320 ft. and a M. Launcher a massive 640 (Sorry to OP if this is necro-posting/OT)

aka_mythos wrote:

The Dreadnote wrote:Size comparison round 2 - Titans versus The World



Building images courtesy of Jeff Russell's Starship Dimensions, the most awesome site I know of for anyone interested in the relative sizes of spaceships (and who isn't?).

Most point to this and say it looses the "awe". I personally think it makes these things seem that much more believable.

maby, but i doubt any titan can hold a company of men inside, ie that thing would need massive gyro stabilisers just to hold the weapons on target, and massive plasma bateries to keep it running for a few SECONDS. I'm callin bs, but they are pretty damn cool, and even compared to the monuments, they are still impressive, and imagine wahat one foot could doto a crouded NY street, eeewwww

For my Imperitor, I went with the 5 foot "rule of cool" interpritations, with the epic rules of 18 SP's and 12 'shields. I also lowered it's firepower on the carapace (four baneblade cannons, one quake cannon, and a defence laser) and added lots of special rules, because, Hey! if I am going to have only one model on the board in a 6000 point game, it might as well be complicated. It is a helluva lot easier (and cheaper) to build, paint, and remember the rules for one measly titan than a massive army 'o doom.
I could post the full thing here if you want.

You lowered the firepower?! Actually, I don't recall the profile on the baneblade cannon, so you may be right.
If I ever get around to building one, mine will likely look like this (because I'll copy it): Lucius-pattern Imperator
I'll probably keep it at about 30". The towers on the epic model look rediculous if you ask me, plus there's no way you could fit a laser blaster in one...


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Captain Solon wrote:hmmm. how tall in feet is the warhound titan supposed to be?

Warhounds (according to forgeworld) are about 14 metres tall, which is 45.93 feet.

Nice size comparison

Thanks, it's nice to know this thing still gets hits!

so very useful

Captain Solon wrote:hmmm. how tall in feet is the warhound titan supposed to be?

We are 1/108. (rhino's and other tanks seem to be a little less.)

I know that our 6" movement only tends to be about 30-ish meters. (quite a way, really) judged by the fact that the average pistol's average range is 160 ft. (in game.) therefore, a bolter can shoot 320 ft. and a M. Launcher a massive 640 (Sorry to OP if this is necro-posting/OT)

Where do you get your weapon distances? Because I find it very hard to believe something like an autocannon can only have an effecive range of 213 yards. Modern .22 caliber rifles (the smallest dinkiest round known to man) has a max effective range of 150 yards.

Taking the ranges of weapons and using them to determine distance is a fool's errand. They're just gameplay abstractions - consider that if weapon ranges were accurate to fluff, laser weapons would have a theoretically infinite range.

Lasers actually do lose power the further out from the source they go, so even a lasgun wouldn't be able to put out the power to make it go on and on and on

EDIT: though I do agree with you on the point of judging weapon ranges being dumb

When they make a walking Empire State building I'll think of it as a titan. That emperor looks kinda wimpy next to the eiffel tower (how do you look wimpy next to french stuff?). They all seem like big dumb walkers better suited to Epic games from what I can see than huge toys on a 4x6 table. There's a reason epic scale exists.

Inquisitor Lord Bane wrote:

Captain Solon wrote:hmmm. how tall in feet is the warhound titan supposed to be?

We are 1/108. (rhino's and other tanks seem to be a little less.)

I know that our 6" movement only tends to be about 30-ish meters. (quite a way, really) judged by the fact that the average pistol's average range is 160 ft. (in game.) therefore, a bolter can shoot 320 ft. and a M. Launcher a massive 640 (Sorry to OP if this is necro-posting/OT)

Where do you get your weapon distances? Because I find it very hard to believe something like an autocannon can only have an effecive range of 213 yards. Modern .22 caliber rifles (the smallest dinkiest round known to man) has a max effective range of 150 yards.

they make a 17 calibur as a common size, and they also make something smaller that litterally has no powder in the casing only a primer. so 22 is far from the smallest.

keep in mind that the battlefield effective range might be different than the bench test effective range.

Also remember (back to the whole scale issue) that there is the modifier HEROIC before that nice little 28mm scale part, which, last I checked, was generally taken to mean that various parts of the whole have been scaled up/down in comparison to the overall scale in order emphasize certain parts (i.e. make it look cool)

- PPH

The Dreadnote wrote:Wrong. Assuming the scale comparison in the recent datasheet is correct (and since GW made it, it is) the imperator titan is sized correctly, relative to the warhound. And the size of the warhound is about 10".

I personally think you may be wrong, you just have to go to GD to see the ones GW make are much much bigger i.e. between 5 and 6 feet not about 3 to 4.. just a point.. i'm just a lowly painter. lol

SoO

Well going by the picture of the emperor class battle titan compared to a warhound and a gaurdsmen

We figured it was roughly 160-170 cm Tall


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So it was actually taller than a short person

now is epic scale 300?

well if you go by that the in ends up about 500 meters tall.

Which sounds about right for the largest land based war machine 40000 years from now.

This is really interesting to me. I always had a feeling that the size of titans was exagerated in a lot of the artwork. It actually makes sense to me that they would be that small in comparison to some real-world structures; they have to be capable of being blasted into space, after all!

wait... arent the guardsmen supposed to be the 2nd biggest right after grotz???

Got something new for you. If you, like me, have ever wondered how titans compare to other humongous mecha, look no further.

Click for full size:


As always, this image is merely a well-informed estimate. Sizes will differ depending on stance, and where you measure from.
Metal Gear RAY was not included because it's very hard to pin down an exact height for the thing. Suffice it to say, it's about the same size as REX/Warhound.

Also, if there's anything else you'd like to see compared to titans, let me know.


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I've also uploaded all the images in the thread to the Gallery as well, if that's more convenient for anybody.

bigdaddy wrote:]

Hi, very interesting work, I think your are in right way.

I’m currently working on epic class vehicle (take baneblade,reaver and warhound epic/40k as reference), but I have much hesitation concerning the issue of scale conversion. I found the old rule-of-thumb used by the former US Forgeworld team (Tim Dupertuis and Mike Biasi). They applied a multiplicative factor of 5.25 ; although this would result, now, in a slight decrease in scale compared to the current forgeworld . My idea was using the current GW Baneblade (reaver and warhound too) as a reference for calculate new factor.
That would give me a factor of roughly 6.75 : thus the big Epic vehicle would be of very playable size.

Forgeworld? OUCH! The company was (and still is) Armorcast, even if I no longer own it.

Below is the original article from Inquisitor #2 (published late in 1991). It follows the basic reasoning Mike Biasi and I used to figure out what scale to use for building the resin Titans and has some interesting observations on 40K scale. When GW/Forge World came out with their Baneblade, then Warhound and Reaver, they definitely upscaled the new models to a larger scale than the Armorcast models, larger than they could possibly justify from the Epic models.

Using the calculations below, an Emperor class Titan comes out to about about 39". When Mike built his Emperor Titan he made it just a bit taller at 42".

Dreadnote's size chart looks just fine to me, although I might bump the Emperor up a bit, not that anyone is going to notice or care about the exact size when you plunk it down on the gaming table.

It is pretty funny to see the exact same discussions regarding the sizes of Titans in artwork compared to their actual Epic or 40K size and GW's lack of consistent scale nearly 20 years after we had our original discussions of the same subject.

Play on,

Tim



SO YOU WANT TO BUILD A TITAN: SCALE IN WARHAMMER 40,000
Just suppose we wanted to build a Warlord Titan in full 40K scale instead of Epic scale. How tall would we make it? 10 inches? 15 inches? 20 inches? larger?

The exact scale of both WH 40K and Epic scale figures and equipment is somewhat inconsistant. 40K figures combine 1/35th scale heads and 1/48th scale limbs on 1/60th scale bodies using artistic license to exaggerate for effect, giving us the artfully exaggerated figures we all know and love. The scales in Titanicus run from about 1/250 for vehicles to about 1/350 for Titans giving an average of 1/300, about the same scale as GHQ MicroArmor.

So what scale shall we make our Titan? The Adeptes Titanicus rulebook says Warlord class Titans stand 60 to 80 feet tall. Where does this 80 feet measure to? top of the carapace? top of the carapace mounted weapons? Assuming that 80 feet is the maximum height we will assume that the 80 feet measures to the top of the carapace mounted weapons. A Warlord measures about 66mm to the top of its carapace mounted weapons. 80 divided by 66 is about 1.2 giving a scale for Epic Titans of 1mm =1.2 feet (Titans only, not vehicles). Now let’s see if we can figure out a scale for a Warlord.

The 40K ground scale of 1”= 2 Meters won’t work because it is much foreshortened to keep the shooting ranges workable on an average tabletop. This scale is a little smaller than HO model railroad scale (1/87), making our 80 foot Titan about 11” tall, obviously much too small.
Next we try the vehicle scale. The Rhino is essentially a modern U.S. M113 armored personnel carrier, running possibly a little larger because of the hull-high track configuration. The Rhino scales out to very close to 1/48 scale (1/4” = 1’-0”), a typical scale for model aircraft and some model vehicles. Our 80 foot Titan in 1/48th scale is 20” tall with a carapace 14” wide--perhaps a little too large. A 6’ human figure in 1 /48th scale would be 1 1/2” high, considerably taller than a Marine figure in Warhammer 40K.

Next we try scaling to a Marine figure. Assuming a Marine to be 6’-3” tall (out of his power armor) we get a scale of 1/60, making our Titan approximately 16 inches tall. This looks pretty good and is my suggestion for a Titan scale. I realize that some of the Titanicus artwork seems to indicate that Titans are much larger than this, appearing in some drawings to be at least 2-300 feet high, but I think that this is artistic license or artists not knowing exactly how big Titans are.

In 1/60th scale, 1 inch equals 5’-0”, giving the following heights for various Titans. To convert Titans from Epic to 40K scale, multiply the Epic measurement times 6.1. For vehicles multiply the Epic measurement by 5.25.
Another way to do this is to measure the Titan part in millimeters, multiply by 1.2 to get the actual measurement in feet, then divide by 5 to get the measurement in inches for 40K.

Warlord Top of carapace weapon 16”
Carapace 13”
Reaver Top of carapace weapon 13”
Carapace 11”
Warhound Carapace 9 1/8”
Eldar Phantom Head 17 1/4”
Fins 22 1/4”
Eldar Knights Top of head 7 1/2 - 9”
(standing)
Gargant Top of head 13 1/2”
Stomper Top of head 6”

Sixteen inches may not seem very big, but check out the picture of Mike Biasi’s 40K scale Reaver, (built to 1/60th scale, 13” overall height) on the cover of Inquisitor #2.

Nice chart. It made me wonder though exactly what height a knight paladin would be to make it fit?

No idea, frankly. The only time I've even seen knights in official publications was in that one horus heresy novel, so I've nothing to base a size off. However, the few knight models I've seen by fans tend to be around the 8" range (IIRC).

Thanks. Was considering doing a defiler kitbash to make one marshaling an army of tech-guard or genswicks. 8" seems decent for it. Just didn't want to end up making it and it turns out looking too lanky.

I've been thinking about titan scales for a while. I really do think that a lot of people make their titans a little too large. If we assume that structure points are a liniar scale for volume, then an Imperator titan would only be equivelent to two Reaver titans, or four Baneblades.

Warlord titans use the same arm weapons as a reaver titan. If you can take a Reaver titan arm and have it look right on your scratch built Warlord, you are pretty much in the ballpark for scale.

We also have to consider playability here. I'd rather have a titan that is a little smaller than they should be as long as I can still put them in the car and drive to a game. Renting a moving truck to take my Imperator to a game simply isn't feasible.

Imperator titans also have a lot of their bulk and height in their towers on their back. If you wanted a more streamlined Imperator that looked like an overgrown Mk 3 Warlord, then it woudl be at least 6 inches shorter.

With all that in mind, I made both my Warlords to be ust under 20 inches tall, and my Imperator will come in at just under 30 inches tall.

The Dreadnote wrote:This, in my humble opinion, represents the "correct" size for 40k-scale titans.

Images were taken from the Apocalypse rulebook, the Emperor datasheet, Forge World, and my living room.
For titans without a known height (ie those that do not yet exist at this scale) height was determined by overlaying the warhounds provided in each image for comparison and adjusting the size until they matched up -
so in theory the warhound, warlord and emperor titans should be scaled properly to each other.
Taking the height of the warhound as about 10", or about 140 pixels, heights for the other two could be determined. Heights for the others were taken from the Forge World website.


This is, of course, only a rough guide, but I hope it might prove useful, or at least interesting.

For titans compared to real-life buildings, see this post.
For a comparison with Metal Gear, see this post.

my warlord is 26" high, 20" to its eyelevel... that makes sense to me!!

The Emperor class titans, Imperator and Warmonger stand at 6ft+ in 1:48 or warhammer scale.

I know this because i planned to build 1-2 of each but never got round to it(read as to expensive).

Let sleeping threads lie. Do not awake that which is dead.

That which is dead can never die.

Thread is being locked due to thread necromancy.