Righto : this is the first fantasy armybook of 2010, comes out quarter 1...I guess we should view this, even more so than the Skaven, as being built to take into account the ongoing 8th edition WFB release next year and changes therein.
Plastic Minotaurs and Besigors and a few metal models as well, Mr. Scryer in the Darkness from Warseer dug up the following :
But the metal box codes are a bit muddied by the multitude of new codes for existing metal products that aren't actually going to to be getting new kits. I have three metal products that are "new", I'm pretty certain the first two are Doombull and Grulgor respectively, and I get the feeling that the £35 box is just the existing Centigors. So I'll just leave these unassigned for the moment until I can get a confirmation on what is actually new and what has just been given a new product code:
I believe he is right with regards to the centigors.. and perhaps this "grulgor" is either a special character -- there has been talk of a "revered beast spawn"-- some overly mutated or messed up beastman "hero" or perhaps is the "new" monster the army is getting perhaps ?
Thanks to Mr. Grimgorironhide for these rumours
Not sure if already posted but I found this off warhammer forums.
"Beastmen due out at the start of March.
*** Herds/Ungors are still mixed and rank up 5 wide. Champions no longer confer a +1 LD bonus - however the majority of beast units and characters have went up 1 in LD.
*** Ambush is still available to the herds.
*** Minotaur lords are still available and have access to Beast mutations. Makes minotaurs core.
*** Chariots are now special choices but 2 for 1.
*** Centigors are core and fast cav however you still need to take gors/ungors/bestigors to fill up your core slots.
*** Gorgon is the new monster in the Rare spots.
*** Centigor Hero available
*** Beastlords with LD9"
The width issue is a no brainer to be fixed, I think we can take that as a given. I have also heard talk about different "breeds" of warhounds perhaps being available... I'm guessing this might be as simple as buying them poisoned attacks/regeneration/clown shoes and red noses etc etc.
I gather the roles of the Shaman and the Minotaurs will be expanded upon in this release.. makes sense and is, again, a kind of retrotastic move by GW back towards the RoC era fluff.
SHAZAM ! Look.. it never happened... actually I think there was a series of 90s electronica called "Tyranny of the beats" one of the songs featured samples of the Borgised Picard.
Indeed, I hope they get minotaurs right this time, some mindbogglingly ugly models for them atm.
And yes, all that talk of minotaur lords and shamen gettin expanded put me immediately in mind of the minotaur and shamen champions in RoC-The Lost and the Damned.
I wonder how they'll be packaged. The new skaven have an honest to gosh price drop, 20 for $33 down from 20 for $35 and TONS better than the 10 for $22 GW has been pushing lately.
So Gors and Ungors are in separate boxes this time? That's good news. The spear that came on the last plastic Ungors were pitifully delicate. I hope the plastic Minotaurs look better than the ones that came with Warhammer Quest.
Tim the Biovore wrote:Where are the plastic khorngors and pestigors?
Unlikey to happen, but maybe the Bestigor box will have a few Chaos God specific icons to scatter around the regiment. Either that or you paint them red, green, pink or blue depending on your chosen allegience.
warpcrafter wrote:So Gors and Ungors are in separate boxes this time? That's good news. The spear that came on the last plastic Ungors were pitifully delicate. I hope the plastic Minotaurs look better than the ones that came with Warhammer Quest.
..maybe...I'm not saying it's impossible but that's a fair old recut of the current sprues they've done here then.
If so I'd say we can take this to mean the death of the current "mixed" units anyway.
After I saw they were coming out(about 4-5 days ago on another forum)I put off my plans to do skaven. Really love them can't wait for them to come out!
Minotaurs are based on the monster of classical Greek mythology, Asterius, called the Minotaur, slain by Theseus. That Minotaur was a man with the head of a bull. Man with the head of a bull = Minotaur. Bull with the head of a bull = bull. If the GW Minotaur models had hooves they wouldn't be monstrous Minotaurs, they'd be cattle. I like the models the way they are, though I've found them to be more fragile than expected as a unit in games. Big scary models don't always equate to scary in games if the rules leave them a bit frail.
Glad to see a lot more plastic on the way. But what of Khorngors and Pestigors? And will Slaanesh and Tzeentch finally get dedicated Beastman models?
Minotaurs are based on the monster of classical Greek mythology, Asterius, called the Minotaur, slain by Theseus. That Minotaur was a man with the head of a bull. Man with the head of a bull = Minotaur. Bull with the head of a bull = bull. If the GW Minotaur models had hooves they wouldn't be monstrous Minotaurs, they'd be cattle.
Yep, whilst it has become standard Fantasy fare to see Minotaurs with hooves(something that springs from D&D it appears, as I can't find anything older that shows anything other than feet, except one illustration by William Blake for the Inferno where he confuses a line and mixes the Minotaur with the Centaurs mentioned a few lines later), Classical depictions have feet.
Mortals of Chaos represent the armies from up there in the Northern Chaos Wastes, so that's why they got the big gribbly beasts like Trolls, Dragon Ogres and Giants.
The Beasts of Chaos is more of the what's hiding in the deep, dark nasty forests between pockets of civilizations and cities.
So, it looks like none of my favorite monsters will be in the new Beasts of Chaos list!
I have a bunch of metal Bestigors that I bought cheap at the last US Battle Bunker "Dented Box" sale they ever had in Maryland in January 2004. When I first saw here that Bestigors were going to be plastic, I considered selling my metal ones. But since I got my metal ones for about $10 US per box and the new plastics will cost probably $33 US or more, maybe I should stick with what I've got.
Also, to me it seems that selling Ungors and Gors separately is a good thing, that way you can alter the ratio between the two to your liking rather than being stuck with the one that is forced on you in the current packaging.
Mortals of Chaos represent the armies from up there in the Northern Chaos Wastes, so that's why they got the big gribbly beasts like Trolls, Dragon Ogres and Giants.
The Beasts of Chaos is more of the what's hiding in the deep, dark nasty forests between pockets of civilizations and cities.
So, it looks like none of my favorite monsters will be in the new Beasts of Chaos list!
Sad, so sad...
Chaos Trolls exist far south of the Chaos Wastes, too. At least according to Vermintide(between Karak Ungor and Karak Kadrin in the World's Edge Mountains) and the Gotrek and Felix novels(Border Prince territories).
Pretty much anywhere Warpstone and Trolls can come into contact, Chaos Trolls exist.
warpcrafter wrote:The spear that came on the last plastic Ungors were pitifully delicate.
Those spears are the best things about the ungors. They actually look like spears, not clubby halberds, and in a rare move for a GW model they aren't in a ludicrous scale compared to the rest of the figure. One of my favorite things about my beastmen is seeing them all ranked up with the frothing-for-battle gors at the front and the ungors in the back holding up proper spears.
I'm just on the verge of finishing an expensive and ridiculously time-consuming converted unit of bestigors, but I'm so happy with it I don't care that new bestigor plastics are coming out. Unless they totally conflict with my other models, I'll be happy to use them to fill out the unit. It would be a pity if dragon ogres left the list, if only because I had a killer conversion planned. I really like the idea of centigors as fast cavalry as it fits much better with a conversion I'm working on.
My only wish is that we get more options to make the rank-and-file act more like Roman-era Germanic tribesmen. I want throwing axes or framae or something like that.
I love me those ungor spears too, so nice and not telephone pole sized
Thanks for all this Red (& 'Seer), I'm thrilled that the beasts will be coming back in force so soon. I have high hopes for the plastic minos, though I'm in the hoof camp myself, as it looks less dopey and fits in with all the other hoofed beasts in the line.
Alpharius wrote:Because a giant female that can turn people to stone wih a glance and a mass of writhing snakes instead of hair is... not a rather chaotic beast?
Gorgons aren't very big, i'd say a gorgon would be better for Dark elves or perhaps lizardmen, but who knows?
Gorgons don't make sense unless they're going with the D&D-style Gorgon. It's a bull-like creature, so that fits the farm animal theme. Twenty-plus years later and I still don't understand why TSR called mutant bulls gorgons and called gorgons medusas.
Separate Ungors are a godsend. Thank you GW. I think I'm finally going to build that Beasts army I've been kicking around for years. I've got a good start on the Herds, Minotaurs and Hounds...I just need to fill it out.
Schepp himself wrote:Is it just me or is this list with most of the monsters being dropped awfully one-dimensional?
I still not getting why chaos isn't a combined army book.
Greets
Schepp himself
The whole thing is driven by GW Beancounters as a way to 'force' older Chaos forces to expand what was once 1 army over 2 books into 3 armies over 3 books.
Schepp himself wrote:Is it just me or is this list with most of the monsters being dropped awfully one-dimensional?
I still not getting why chaos isn't a combined army book.
Greets
Schepp himself
The whole thing is driven by GW Beancounters as a way to 'force' older Chaos forces to expand what was once 1 army over 2 books into 3 armies over 3 books.
Sad, but true!
(I think!)
And yet they won't break out the 40k Chaos Legions into separate lists to "force" the same type of thing in 40k...
And, yes, I know Chaos Daemons were broken out, so I guess that kind of counts.
gorgon wrote:Gorgons don't make sense unless they're going with the D&D-style Gorgon. It's a bull-like creature, so that fits the farm animal theme.
I always thought the bull-gorgon was Mesopotamian in origin. Although reading Wikipedia it appears they come from Greek legends. Which oddly ties in very nicely with my army but I suspect does not with most BoC armies out there. If they do go this route, I hope it looks more like an ancient, mutated Auroch from the hidden places no mortals know, and less like an angry cow from Old MacDonald's farm that's been dipped in glue and rolled in a pile of pennies.
And what's with taking all the monsters out of the list? Weird-ass stuff lurking in the woods accompanying the army is part of the fluff for beasts since Realm of Chaos: The Lost and the Damned.
GW seems hell bent on making chaos into 3 very regimented and unchaotic armies. I wish they'd combine them and put more into segregation via chaos god or certain HQ choices.
Interesting cover, nothing mindblowing but I guess it fits beastmen well.
Beastmen have lovely gors/ungors sprues, some of the GW best, speaking of best moments, I do really miss them in 40k backing up the cult.
Think you need anatomy lessons, Dogma. It's slightly too high for that
Chaos mutation table #675-681 "Misplaced genitals. The chaos warriors organs are removed from their normal position and placed elsewhere on his body. The model gains 1 fear point but may, in certain circumstances, be unable to wear a hat."
MeanGreenStompa wrote:
GW seems hell bent on making chaos into 3 very regimented and unchaotic armies. I wish they'd combine them and put more into segregation via chaos god or certain HQ choices.
I absolutely agree with you on this one! It just doesnt feel chaos anymore
reds8n wrote:
Flashman wrote:
dogma wrote:Was the penis plate really necessary?
Think you need anatomy lessons, Dogma. It's slightly too high for that
Chaos mutation table #675-681 "Misplaced genitals. The chaos warriors organs are removed from their normal position and placed elsewhere on his body. The model gains 1 fear point but may, in certain circumstances, be unable to wear a hat."
It actually looks as if someone has managed to sneak around the back and managed to back stab him to such epic proportions that the sword has come out through the belly!
Clearly, he'll have to lead from the front rank from now on.
Maybe if the gorgon is coming back (and I remember the superb Ackland picture in WHFB 3rd Ed) then perhaps...just perhaps, the Jabberwocky might make a comeback.
Then you should be fine...but get them fast, now the email has gone out they won't be sending out many replacement box sets if any, so..quick quick man thing.. doh'! wrong army.
Hmm.. well you know how codex : Chaos Space Marine focused entirely on them rather than any/all variants thereof...
..I'm saying the title : Warhammer : Beastmen is perhaps a similar approach to this, so the focus is on the Beastmen as opposed to "Beasts of chaos" in general. So..the removal of some of the monsters and non beastman elements in the army does seem more likely.
Hence, perhaps why we get the razorgor-- as those creatures "hang" with beastmen and are part of their society in a similar fashion as squigs do with orcs-- and not the rumoured Gorgon or non Beastman related beasties.
I'd prefer there to still have monsters etc in there still, I just don't think it looks very likely.
Oh. Yeah, totally didn't pick up on that aspect of the title -__-.
I guess Minotaurs are likely to be the "Big Hitters" of this book then. Agreed that it'd have been nice to maintain the other things that go "bump in the night" in the list.
reds8n wrote:Hmm.. well you know how codex : Chaos Space Marine focused entirely on them rather than any/all variants thereof...
..I'm saying the title : Warhammer : Beastmen is perhaps a similar approach to this, so the focus is on the Beastmen as opposed to "Beasts of chaos" in general. So..the removal of some of the monsters and non beastman elements in the army does seem more likely.
Hence, perhaps why we get the razorgor-- as those creatures "hang" with beastmen and are part of their society in a similar fashion as squigs do with orcs-- and not the rumoured Gorgon or non Beastman related beasties.
I'd prefer there to still have monsters etc in there still, I just don't think it looks very likely.
How very David Attenborough...
Like I said, far too ordered and segmented for me, not like Chaos as we were presented it before.
In the dark places of the world, the Beastmen have been gathering in number and in February they will unleash their rage on the Warhammer world with renewed vigour. A feral army of twisted monsters, the Beastmen have inhabitant the dark forests and wild places of the world since such places existed. To lead a Beastmen army is to field vast herds of braying, brutish beasts who worship Chaos in all its forms, and who fight to level the civilised world.
This will be the first time ever that the Beastmen have had their own, completely stand-alone, army list. The forthcoming Warhammer Armies: Beastmen is full of twisted monsters old and new, and an all-new lore of magic. The Beastmen are the original inhabitants of the Old World: in February 2010 they come to reclaim it from the hands of Men.
new lore then...good...
...errr...they are ? Not what I thought/have read.
reds8n wrote:Hmm.. well you know how codex : Chaos Space Marine focused entirely on them rather than any/all variants thereof...
..I'm saying the title : Warhammer : Beastmen is perhaps a similar approach to this, so the focus is on the Beastmen as opposed to "Beasts of chaos" in general. So..the removal of some of the monsters and non beastman elements in the army does seem more likely.
Hence, perhaps why we get the razorgor-- as those creatures "hang" with beastmen and are part of their society in a similar fashion as squigs do with orcs-- and not the rumoured Gorgon or non Beastman related beasties.
I'd prefer there to still have monsters etc in there still, I just don't think it looks very likely.
Comparing it to the Chaos: Space Marine Codex doesn't get me in a hopeful mood...
MeanGreenStompa wrote:
reds8n wrote:Hmm.. well you know how codex : Chaos Space Marine focused entirely on them rather than any/all variants thereof...
..I'm saying the title : Warhammer : Beastmen is perhaps a similar approach to this, so the focus is on the Beastmen as opposed to "Beasts of chaos" in general. So..the removal of some of the monsters and non beastman elements in the army does seem more likely.
Hence, perhaps why we get the razorgor-- as those creatures "hang" with beastmen and are part of their society in a similar fashion as squigs do with orcs-- and not the rumoured Gorgon or non Beastman related beasties.
I'd prefer there to still have monsters etc in there still, I just don't think it looks very likely.
How very David Attenborough...
Like I said, far too ordered and segmented for me, not like Chaos as we were presented it before.
Too too MGS, too true.
Looks like Chaos is continuing down the path of blandifcation.
I look forward to the Designers notes for the Chaos Army (unified!) book for 9th edition WFB, when they talk about how unnatural it was to rigidly separate the 3 branches of Chaos...
Automatically Appended Next Post:
MeanGreenStompa wrote:Maybe if the gorgon is coming back (and I remember the superb Ackland picture in WHFB 3rd Ed) then perhaps...just perhaps, the Jabberwocky might make a comeback.
Ah well, I can dream!
Now THAT would be awesome, and would totally (well, almost totally!) make up for the inability to take Dragon Ogres and Trolls. And giants?
Of course, the potential to screw up that particular model is almost off the scale, so...
This will be the first time ever that the Beastmen have had their own, completely stand-alone, army list. The forthcoming Warhammer Armies: Beastmen is full of twisted monsters old and new, and an all-new lore of magic. The Beastmen are the original inhabitants of the Old World: in February 2010 they come to reclaim it from the hands of Men.
...errr...they are ? Not what I thought/have read.
So gw are telling us there were beastmen before elves and dwarves and treemen...which were all thousands of years before men...from which beastmen are supposed to be mutated from...???
...the feck?
I sense FLUFFWARPAGE!!! I HATE FLUFFWARPAGE!!!!!!1!
Agreed, but we all know that aint never gonna happen. the one on the book cover looks like its gonna be more of a failure than the last incarnations.
infact most monsters (aside from the vargulf IMO) have been total letdowns of late, rat ogres, spawns, beast of nurgle, for example. seems the sculpting noids cant work on a medium sized model without fracking it. (or could that be a secret part of the process?)
Hawkins wrote:Agreed, but we all know that aint never gonna happen. the one on the book cover looks like its gonna be more of a failure than the last incarnations.
infact most monsters (aside from the vargulf IMO) have been total letdowns of late, rat ogres, spawns, beast of nurgle, for example. seems the sculpting noids cant work on a medium sized model without fracking it. (or could that be a secret part of the process?)
Too true!
There have been some hits (new High Elf Plastic Dragon), some misses (the ones you mentioned!) and some in-between (plastic Giant -overall OK, but the bloated gut and the pants?)...
1) Why are all beastman goat / cow headed? why not lion / wolf or other animals?
2) The lack of fur makes them look like they are chaos marauder / ogre kingdom with a head swap ,
what exactly are they fluff wise? are they sudden chaos mutated or are they born as beastman?
(though in case anyone wonders, I know nothing more than anyone else on Dakka! Just stating that trying to guess content from a cover illustration is most likely an exercise in futility)
Luna: there were a long time ago, but for some reason they stoped doing alternative animal heads.
on the cover, : does any one else hate the self mutalation from the horn going thru the skin on the wargor?, i mean it was already done in ogre kingdoms and it was stupid then, i dont see why it should be acceptable now. Again, another case of GW needing outside input.
Hawkins wrote:on the cover, : does any one else hate the self mutalation from the horn going thru the skin on the wargor?, i mean it was already done in ogre kingdoms and it was stupid then, i dont see why it should be acceptable now. Again, another case of GW needing outside input.
It's acceptable because people STILL do it for real today. That's not something GW made up themselves, several cultures throughout history practiced skin piercings like that.
As far as I know (maybe my knowledge is a bit blurry/"revised", coming from 4th edition after all) Beastmen are mutated bastardchildren of men that are thrown into the wilderness. In some parts these mutations seem to happen quite often, so you see quite a load of beastmen there.
You know, the more I look at the Gor in the middle, the more I dislike him. His head's too small, his horns are too big, his belly plate/spike is stupid, his axe looks wonky in the perspective, his head doesn't blend into his body enough, his helmet spike is dumb...
Hawkins wrote:on the cover, : does any one else hate the self mutalation from the horn going thru the skin on the wargor?, i mean it was already done in ogre kingdoms and it was stupid then, i dont see why it should be acceptable now. Again, another case of GW needing outside input.
It's acceptable because people STILL do it for real today. That's not something GW made up themselves, several cultures throughout history practiced skin piercings like that.
Exactly, that's how I spot the chaos cultists in my neighborhood and target them for 'accidents'.
Anyway, what's this nonsense about Beastmen getting their own Codex for the 'First Time'. WTF was 'Beasts of Chaos'?
..as stated earlier : this is the Beastmen 's first "codex"..as previously they shared it with the other chaos beastsnotmen and other chaos units..initially anyway. People might have liked the idea of interconnected armies that let you mix and match for coolness and so forth..but what the hell do they know !
... right ...?
Yeah, what is he going to do, "belly bump" you?
.. might depend upon the rules set I would hazard as a suggestion ?
Beastmen are mutated bastardchildren of men that are thrown into the wilderness. In some parts these mutations seem to happen quite often, so you see quite a load of beastmen there.
Not quite. Those are... were ? .. refered to as "gaves" or "gavechilds", the rest of the beastmen, especially the Gors.. especially the Bovine Gors..being "pure" blooded and born and reared in the forests/sent by the chaos gods if the plot required it...
..essentially Beastman social status was defined bu the size of ones horns -- useful in the headbutting contests they engaged in by their herdstones-- and/or being marked by the gods. For example Shaman were usually seen as untouchable and favoured by the chaos gods.
Yup. That's a pretty terrible cover. The Beastlord is truly bad. And here's hoping Reds8n is wrong with some of his predictions...
Still, the night's young and things might not be as bad as people are fearing. I have been sitting on a large Beastman army for some time now. I wouldn't mind, too much, if the other Chaos gribblies aren't included in the book as long as it's a viable list since I prefer a beasts-only list. But losing too many options would be a pity.
reds8n wrote: ..as stated earlier : this is the Beastmen 's first "codex"..as previously they shared it with the other chaos beastsnotmen and other chaos units..initially anyway.
But all they had 'sides Beastman units were Ogres, Trolls and Dragon Ogres. Won't that mean that once this Army Book hits, Dragon Ogres won't be available to any army? I mean, should we expect Codex: Dragon Ogre Kingdoms to come next?
All they're really doing is removing 6 units from the book - Spawn, Chaos Trolls, Chaos Ogres, Dragon Ogres, Shaggoths and Giants.
Oh well, at least it's yet another example of GW changing horses mid-race. They finally begin to unify the style of the Chaos Army books first with the new Daemons of Chaos, then with Warriors of Chaos. An updated Beasts of Chaos was inevitable to complete the circle (or... triangle...) but no, GW has to change their direction once again.
cygnnus wrote:Yup. That's a pretty terrible cover. The Beastlord is truly bad. And here's hoping Reds8n is wrong with some of his predictions...
Live in hope, die in vain!
H.B.M.C. wrote:
reds8n wrote: ..as stated earlier : this is the Beastmen 's first "codex"..as previously they shared it with the other chaos beastsnotmen and other chaos units..initially anyway.
But all they had 'sides Beastman units were Ogres, Trolls and Dragon Ogres. Won't that mean that once this Army Book hits, Dragon Ogres won't be available to any army? I mean, should we expect Codex: Dragon Ogre Kingdoms to come next?
Dragon Ogres, Trolls and Giants ARE available to a Mortals of Chaos army, aren't they?
reds8n wrote: ..as stated earlier : this is the Beastmen 's first "codex"..as previously they shared it with the other chaos beastsnotmen and other chaos units..initially anyway.
But all they had 'sides Beastman units were Ogres, Trolls and Dragon Ogres. Won't that mean that once this Army Book hits, Dragon Ogres won't be available to any army? I mean, should we expect Codex: Dragon Ogre Kingdoms to come next?
All they're really doing is removing 6 units from the book - Spawn, Chaos Trolls, Chaos Ogres, Dragon Ogres, Shaggoths and Giants.
Oh well, at least it's yet another example of GW changing horses mid-race. They finally begin to unify the style of the Chaos Army books first with the new Daemons of Chaos, then with Warriors of Chaos. An updated Beasts of Chaos was inevitable to complete the circle (or... triangle...) but no, GW has to change their direction once again.
I think he's talking about the old book allowing demon and morals to be included. Or not.
Its something they adapted to the minis, though, sorry i dont like it, and think its silly whatever the reason.
And you know, those people probably think grown men playing with little plastic toys (that you have to paint yourself) is silly, too.
I quite like it, I think it makes a lot of sense seeing as how the beastmen come off as being a savage, tribal race and all, and being Chaos worshippers the self-mutilation fits in quite well I'd say. I like it too for the psychological effect, it makes you think "Holy gak this guy is crazy, he's got bones and horns stuck in him and he's screaming like a madman!" I'd probably run the other way.
Alpharius wrote:It actually looks as if someone has managed to sneak around the back and managed to back stab him to such epic proportions that the sword has come out through the belly! Clearly, he'll have to lead from the front rank from now on.
I think the Beastman is using that huge spiked armor plate around his belly to compensate for his inadequacy in other areas. No wonder they are so angry and savage.
I'm still sitting on the boxed army from the last Beasts of Chaos release plus some additional items for it. I wonder if I'll finally find time to paint them after they get their new army book.
Alright, I gotta admit, I'm no fan of the belly sword, either. I can see if you're trying to put a bit of distance between you and an opponent, but all it would really do is hinder your own movement. That and the idea of actually using it as a weapon is pretty fething silly...imagine a big goatman thrusting his gut into people, lmao.
Tim the Biovore wrote:If you pay attention to what he is doing, he seems to be striking that all too often pose of a psycho maniac who gets killed really quick.
I know, I was thinking about that when I wrote my post about the psychological effect. "RAAAAGH I'M fething CRAZY, YOU BETTER RUN melon-fether! *cuts his own chest with his sword while making pelvic thrusts*"
Well I for one like the cover. The "blurr" of green in thebackground looks very fitting, makes it seem like your running away from them, and somewhat chaotic. While having body hair is traditional for such things I like the semi hairless thing. As I recall beastmen are jealous of human aesthetics, so it may be representative of an attempt to look more human, Though it is a pathetic one, as they also tend towards other so-called barbaric or tribal (I know the two words are not equivalent in this day and age) practices, like the skin piercing. I have to say I love the blade plate. It looks both cumbersome and impressive, something that I think protrays the beastmen very well, He is saying, "I am bigger than you and I have this thing here to prove it" (although it is not hard to notice when someone is bigger than you. But while impractical for a human, it many be entirely practical for a huge beastman. Looking at his anatomy it seems the plate sword is probably very effective at killing things he it trampling. I could imagine that beastlord, charging and mowing down people with his axe , and others reaching up after getting head butted only to be run through with that device. I would not put it passed beastmen to use semi-phallic symbolism in their garb, while maybe not family friendly, it would show a patriarchial and heirarchical society that is extremely shovenistic, very beastman to me. I mean I have not even heard of beastman females or beastwomen, though this does not mean they do not exist, though i bet a cow or sheep does just as well (ewww). So if one visualizes it as an impractical and shovenistic phallic symbol, I would agree and count it as a positive and a good direction for the art. So long as it does not get out of hand, I do not want to see......that kind of stuff everywhere. But I love the minotaur in the back alot, and I hope the new models for the minotaurs are similar. I love the helmets, they seem designed by beastmen for beastmen, something that does not match fluff, but I think is very fitting. They need more of a culture, rather than just being a feral branch of chaos. They also look more intelligent in this art, I think that lends itself well to them, having such cunning. I hope the new models look more menacing, the current ones ( if they change the beastman box set) just look kind of bored not ready to tear things apart. I hope they have a more primal edge but one that is somewhat suppressed by their human side, kind of a mix between mournfulness and manic bloodlust. I would like to see them hunched, growling, and their leaders to be raving lunatics and all of them ready to gor themselves and chew on their own internal organs if they do not reach battle soon (of course some acceptions like Khazrack the one-eye, spelled that wrong). I see where the artist is going, it is not meant to please people, I can see that, but the cover does look like an honest heartfelt attempt to portray this developing (non-existant) culture in all of it's characteristics.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Hey just spotted this, I don't know if you saw it andI don't want to be indecent but that gut sword is for sure a phallic symbol. The two hairy heads hanging on his waist, are well, you get it, their right below the gut sword, that beastlord rules by his own might that is for sure. He is either compensating as already mentioned or he really is THE beastman.
I actually like the cover. Then again, I see them as more corrupted fawn-type creatures, so normal torso with furry goat legs and goat heads seems fitting to me.
Definitely interested in seeing the new plastic minotaurs. If they are really cool like Ogres, I think this army will look great on the table.
Ok well i did some more careful reading of the posts and found that most noticed the very masculine nature of the gut blade and hairy heads. I just hope GW noticed, I think they are trying to be family friendly to the international audience but stuff like that has also evaded disney.
Anyway some people seem angry about a fluff change. I for one like it. To make beastmen older than woodelves would be fantastic, because it is a rejection of the archetype made popular and standard since Lord of the rings. It also sounds like Chaos may be removed from their fluff to some degree, which I like. I hate the good and evil dynamic no matter how you cover it up. Chaos and Order are usually just different names for Evil and Good respectively (40k however does have some acceptions). I would like to see them as a savage and bloodthirsty race but not one without motive. Motive donates purpose and purpose lends culture and development. I have read the current beasts of chaos book and i am a little bit disappointed with the lack of dimensionality in the beastmen. If they have more than one dimension as a people (of course their heroes and herdstones have very nice touches) then they will have more appeal. For instance I love the 40k daemons because I can sympathize with them. They are pure creatures who do what they are meant to do. i am sympathetic to the Chaos forces in 40k because they are free thinkers, they choose their own master, rather than are forced to serve one. I am starting a beastman army as soon as they come out, and would love for their fluff to be rich and something I can sympathize with, makes me get into the game more.
Ygds wrote:
Hey just spotted this, I don't know if you saw it andI don't want to be indecent but that gut sword is for sure a phallic symbol. The two hairy heads hanging on his waist, are well, you get it, their right below the gut sword, that beastlord rules by his own might that is for sure. He is either compensating as already mentioned or he really is THE beastman.
...*facepalm* wow...never noticed that before. With the heads...
It just makes my joke about the thrusting even more hilarious, imagine those things dangling around while he does it.
Sidstyler wrote:Alright, I gotta admit, I'm no fan of the belly sword, either. I can see if you're trying to put a bit of distance between you and an opponent, but all it would really do is hinder your own movement. That and the idea of actually using it as a weapon is pretty fething silly...imagine a big goatman thrusting his gut into people, lmao.
Allow me:
Gaotman Brayed his loudest as he and his heard raced on cloven hoves towards the imperial line of halbadiers. With a impact fit to crush stone, the two lines met in a deafining roar of steal and screams. Goatman, Head down bulled into an imperial halbadier horns and the blade on his helmet thrusting deep into the fleash of his foe. With a Wrench of his head the red and purple of the soldiers clothing ripped apart in a spray of gore as momentum carried the beastman further into the lines of the Enemy with his heard, Now came the momment all beastmen longed for deep down in their corrupted souls. As the men of the imperium broke, Goat man spied a likely target and Screamed to his brothers in the toungue of the beast 'DOG PILE!' He was already in the air as he screamed Arms outstreched, back arched, his Heard brothers only a few feet behind. *Squash* The impact and gyrations of Warband reduced the Soldier to nothing more than a pulp. Goatman dry humped the corpse with his long steal blade, the two severed heads between his legs knocking together. For a time there was nothing to hear but the beastmen at play, till from under the pile A small voice could be heard just on the edge of hearing. 'Ger off'! Goatman screamed. and his brothers hastily obrayed. Onehorn, an old goat whom long ago had lost an eye as well as a horn, began to snigger, as he always did when the he saw his bands leader as he was now. Goatman, belly blade bent, was huched over in excritiating pain as the peicings on his chest made of thich bone were plucked out one after another, blood and filth oozing out behind. 'Onehorn Chucked 'I told you those peircing were silly, Damn fool thing for any idiot to try.'
I like how it looks. It look beastie. The thing i really hope they will keep, is that a wargor of tzeentch will remain as also a wizard... but that will be lost, no?
Ygds wrote:
Hey just spotted this, I don't know if you saw it andI don't want to be indecent but that gut sword is for sure a phallic symbol. The two hairy heads hanging on his waist, are well, you get it, their right below the gut sword, that beastlord rules by his own might that is for sure. He is either compensating as already mentioned or he really is THE beastman.
...*facepalm* wow...never noticed that before. With the heads...
It just makes my joke about the thrusting even more hilarious, imagine those things dangling around while he does it.
That must be why they are there. What better way to distract your enemy than two heads dangling below a belly blade?
reds8n wrote: ..as stated earlier : this is the Beastmen 's first "codex"..as previously they shared it with the other chaos beastsnotmen and other chaos units..initially anyway.
But all they had 'sides Beastman units were Ogres, Trolls and Dragon Ogres. Won't that mean that once this Army Book hits, Dragon Ogres won't be available to any army? I mean, should we expect Codex: Dragon Ogre Kingdoms to come next?
All they're really doing is removing 6 units from the book - Spawn, Chaos Trolls, Chaos Ogres, Dragon Ogres, Shaggoths and Giants.
Oh well, at least it's yet another example of GW changing horses mid-race. They finally begin to unify the style of the Chaos Army books first with the new Daemons of Chaos, then with Warriors of Chaos. An updated Beasts of Chaos was inevitable to complete the circle (or... triangle...) but no, GW has to change their direction once again.
I think he's talking about the old book allowing demon and morals to be included. Or not.
Correct. morTals though ..oh Dr. Freud where art thou now ?
Reds8n speaks in riddles.
When seeking the truth the truth must first find you !
Jin wrote:
GW is also not having a good track-record lately of naming things well (Why's 'razor' got to be the prefix for everything these days?).
Given the really gakky names for the upcoming tyranids, I think GW hired that little oriental shop keeper from tremors, he who came up with the genius name of 'graboids'...
I wonder if the new special rule for the belly blades is "At the end of each battle, roll 1d6 for each unit of 'Gors with belly blades. On a 1, the unit inflicts 2d6 Str3 hits on itself due to congratulatory chest bumping injuries, with armor saves taken as normal."
Also, the smooth chested beastmen look like they are angry due to being kicked out of the Village People. There needs to be one with a leather hat and assless chaps to really complete the cover.
If the new Bestigor are $41.25 US for 10 I guess I'll stick with the metal ones I got at the last GW dented box sale back in early 2004 for about $10 per box.
It all looks very subpar when compared to the recent lovely Skaven models.
As for the cowmen...hmm.... a LOT better than the Razorgor, but not great. So far..when we get to see better pics from different angles maybe they'll look better. Here's hoping !
BrassScorpion wrote:Minotaurs are based on the monster of classical Greek mythology, Asterius, called the Minotaur, slain by Theseus. That Minotaur was a man with the head of a bull. Man with the head of a bull = Minotaur. Bull with the head of a bull = bull.
It just occured to me that a simple solution to the "slanngor/Tzengor/etc" problem is to eliminate marked units, and just have bestigors... which also is in keeping with the blurb about the beastmen following chaos undivided.
I think this will be another version of Beastmen which I ignore.
I don't know. I really want this to be my first warhammer fantasy army, but I cannot stand crappy models. however I was underwhelmed at first with the plaguebearer models sold by GW. But it soon became clear once I bought some that their real disadvantage is their paint job in most photos. Though I am no great painter I liked my paint job much more than the one they had. The models themselves are awesome, they just needed a more personal touch. The beastmen, I hope will have well done models. And as far as Gakk level (I just learned this word from you guys never heard it before now hope i got the right meaning) I love the tuskgor chariot models myself and am sure once again I could paint them better (well not better as in better quality better as in pallate). The current minotaurs are horrible in my opinion, their teeth look cumbersome and their heads overwhelm the rest of the model. I was able to through together more proportionate models in plastesine when I was 11. I think i made a minotaur once. If I could only master greenstuff the way I mastered plastesine, there would be none of this $700.00 later stuff, I would build everything from scratch and would not now be holding out for the models. Such a great army concept, they just need something worthy of it. But if the models look like something from a very old dungeons and dragons book then count me out.
lasgunpacker wrote:It just occured to me that a simple solution to the "slanngor/Tzengor/etc" problem is to eliminate marked units, and just have bestigors... which also is in keeping with the blurb about the beastmen following chaos undivided.
I think this will be another version of Beastmen which I ignore.
Wow this really disappoints me if it's true. I just started an escalation league too with the intention of running Beastmen with their current codex. At least I'll be able to experience what they were like as I plan on running some mortals/exalted deamon/daemon legions.
If they gave the pinkish Beast some fur (not a lot, damn furries) I think they'd add to the intimidation factor.
Hell, while I'm at it, might as well give him some armor.
I think when they say "Beastmen are the first race" They mean the first race to fully succumb to Chaos (Barring Dragon Ogres, methinks). Sure, you have Chaos Mortals, but it seems like Beastmen would have come first (Seeing as they were created during the opening (closing?) of the polar Gates, or whatnot)
I hope they don't remove the Giant/Dragon Ogres/Chaos Trolls etc. They're kinda the Heavy hitters of the current Beast list, and Chaos isn't chaos without them (Barring Daemons of Chaos)
The cover is horrible. All you get a glimpse of is Beastmen and a Minotaur.
There isn't enough there without the more colorful beasts to make it interesting.
The secret is that there aren't any more colorful beasts. Every cover at least alludes to the sort of characteristic units that the book has for the army. Here, there are only beastmen and minotaurs, because there will be no other units.
Well for me Il wait and see what they do to beast of chaos, and if It is not to my liking then Il go with Skaven instead as they really cool new models...
over and out avach
Automatically Appended Next Post: Srry forgot to wright got in between really and cool..
The cover is horrible. All you get a glimpse of is Beastmen and a Minotaur.
There isn't enough there without the more colorful beasts to make it interesting.
Schepp himself wrote:As far as I know (maybe my knowledge is a bit blurry/"revised", coming from 4th edition after all) Beastmen are mutated bastardchildren of men that are thrown into the wilderness. In some parts these mutations seem to happen quite often, so you see quite a load of beastmen there.
Ah, yes. In fact I happen to recall that the hideous Sheepmen are frequently found in the region of Zew Nealand as a result of the unholy unions between man and sheep that occur there.
reds8n wrote: I am quite surprised that the Ungors on the front cover don't have bows, you'd think they'd maybe make a bigger deal out of this for this book.
So, what you're implying is that this is essentially going to be a Skirmishing O&G book sans Fanatics, Squigs, and the warmachines?
reds8n wrote: I am quite surprised that the Ungors on the front cover don't have bows, you'd think they'd maybe make a bigger deal out of this for this book.
The very reliable Mr. Hastings posted the following over on The Herdstone site
Hi guys, thought I should stop by here as you are the premier site for Beasts and answer any questions you may have on the upcoming beasts, or at least try and post some subtle hints if I can't answer them directly.
I'll start off by saying that the Gor & Ungor plastic boxes are not bad, I think that came across quite badly on my post on Warseer, they are just too alike the existing kits to be of any real note.
Gors have some new poses, some new weapons (not options - just different weapons - i.e. maces) and shields.
Ungors are a little different to the existing models, they have some different heads (one or two I'm not too keen on - especially what I am assuming is the Ungor unit Champion head) they still come with options for spears, shields, hand weapons but now come with short bows.
As a bit of an exclusive (as well as to show I am really me and not someone using the same user name) for you guys, I'll be happy to tell you that there is a Shaman named special character called "Malagor the Dark Omen" and a Centigor special character called "Ghorros Warhoof", sadly neither model is great.
Ungors (new ones) come with 20mm bases, I'm really hoping that there is still an option to have a mixed herd if not looks like I'll be having to remove my current Ungors from their current bases, which frankly is a pain in the arse but not unheard of.
The new gors come with hand weapons, there is no option for halberds on the sprue so I'm guessing there won't be that option in the book either. Perhaps some conversions would be in order so you could still use the old ones.
There appear to be no "vanilla" characters in the first wave of releases, which is a bit dissapointing as I would have really liked a couple of new shaman minis. The centigor character Ghorros is quite plain, he is slightly rearing has a horn on his right side and is armed with a club with a couple of spikes through it, he also has hooves which I thought was unusual as the other centigor have clawed feet, however as his name contains "hoof" I guess it would have been odd if he had claws. A nice touch on the character is the head, he appears to be wearing the skull of a unicorn pushed down over his horns, and for me it's the only real high point of the model. I would recommend buying the Mordheim centigor and doing a headswap as a basis for a centigor character (if indeed the book has that as a hero choice).
I'm really looking forward to the book most of all, as we've all read the rumours about the loss of Chaos Trolls, Chaos Ogres, Dragon Ogres & Shaggoths, so they'll need to add some new units other than the Razorgor to flesh the list out.
and a snippet thanks to Mr. Lorizael from 40k online
That is one of the "new" Gors, as you can see pretty much (is ?) identical to the curent ones.
Alpharius wrote:Meet the new Gor, same as the old Gor?
They were supposed to retain the same style. Since Herd boxes are splitting, they needed to sculpt 7 new Gor bodies and 8 new Ungors. While they are doing it, they might as well add other new bits into mix and tweak the old ones. On the beastman shown above, all bits are very similar to old ones but appear to be new ones. The body and weapon arms are definitely new bits and the banner is the old bit modified with new banner top added.
"New" ideas are not GW's strong point, especially with regards to naming new troop types (Plague Furnace aside). Razor seems to be a popular prefix of theirs in recent years... Razordon, Razorgor. Is there a Razorthrope in the new Tyranids Codex?
That said, I did want them to expand on the Beastmen theme rather than just chucking in the same Chaos Monsters again, so I shouldn't complain too much.
EDIT - Bit odd that the Beastmen Regiment (with mixed Gors/Ungors) is still for sale on the website.
the one thing im really hoping for from the gors and ungor box is the same conpatibility we had with the old heads. you could prety much put them on anything. And i had a blast converting with them. Any idea of the frame make up? seperate heads etc?
Well, different base sizes pretty much confirms the herds are getting split. It'll be kind of a pain switching bases for my assembled Ungor. But at least they aren't finished, painted models.
Mr. Hastings' "sketch" of the Razorgor is equal parts hilarious and facepalm. Hey, maybe that means all the good sculptors were hard at work on Tyranids!
The Gor and Ungor heads are integral to their new sprues, the Gor models are 99% identical to the old/current ones, just moved around a bit. Heads are still 2 parts with the horns separate for the Gors.
gorgon wrote:Well, different base sizes pretty much confirms the herds are getting split. It'll be kind of a pain switching bases for my assembled Ungor. But at least they aren't finished, painted models.
Huzzah! I've found a reason why it's a good thing I haven't found time to assemble and paint the Beasts of Chaos box army I bought when it was first released years ago. Occasionally, having a large modeling backlog and taking years to get to certain models pays off. If I can get to them in 2010 I can base the army and build it based on the newer Army Book.
@reds8n: I already have a FW Trygon, so I'm more psyched about the other stuff. Hopefully the Hive Guard don't end up looking like Lion King characters too.
@BrassScorpion: My Beasts "army" is small and only partially assembled. It's been a long-term, build-it-on-the-cheap project. Fortunately what I have is all "beastman" stuff and not "monster" stuff, which seems to be going extinct in the new army book. So some base swaps aren't a big deal, and nothing I should really complain about.
@Platuan4th: You're not the only one saying that. I'm kinda hoping Ambush becomes more of a differentiator...
reds8n wrote: ..as stated earlier : this is the Beastmen 's first "codex"..as previously they shared it with the other chaos beastsnotmen and other chaos units..
So you're presaging a 4th WFB "Chaos Family" book for "Monsters of Chaos"?
IIRC:
G1. Chaos
- Beasts
- Mortals
G2. Mortals
- Daemons
- Warriors
G3. Beasts
- Beastmen
- Monsters
So the ultimate lineup is:
- Daemons of Chaos
- Warriors of Chaos
- Beastmen (of Chaos)
- Monster (of Chaos)
These kind of threads always descend into wishlists/GW bashing after page 2
You can say that again. Always is normally a pretty extreme term, but in this case I think it applies. These kind of threads do always descend into wishlists and GW bashing.
So besides plastic minotaurs, more expensive gors/ungors, seperate beast lore, ranking 5 wide, doombull with mutations similar to vamp powers and a gorgon, does anyone have any other word on the book or are folks just posting to increase the size of the thread?
Mattbranb wrote:So besides plastic minotaurs, more expensive gors/ungors, seperate beast lore, ranking 5 wide, doombull with mutations similar to vamp powers and a gorgon, does anyone have any other word on the book?
Yes. Anyone thinking about fielding Beast Herds come February and not interested in a 67% price increase should probably consider picking up a few boxes sooner than later, given the certainty that GW will eventually pull the old boxes in anticipation of the new.
Mattbranb wrote:Or are folks just posting to increase the size of the thread?
Im hoping that the beasts of chaos will look good because I am not too keen on the current Beasts of Chaos. Also apparently the New gamesday model was supposed to be a beasts of chaos model but it look too weedy for beasts of chaos so they made it the new Gamesday model???
Is it a safe bet they'll finally get a battalion? thus i should wait and not purchase the gor / ungor ?
That's a tough call. The Battalion will have a price break on it over buying what's in it separately, but the price of what's in it will be higher than the models are currently which will eat into your savings just a little. This happened with the Imperial Guard last spring. The troop boxes went from $35 for 20 to $22 for 10 models. If you waited to buy the Battleforce it was cheaper than buying what's in it separately whether or not you snatched up an old box of troops or waited for the Battalion, but the savings were slightly eroded if you compared them to the older troop boxes rather than the new ones. Still, if you really want what's in a Battalion, it's probably a better buy. If you need a lot of troops, you could buy a few current troop boxes and then still buy a Battalion when it's released and have a few more troops plus the newer models that will probably be in it.
..I guess thing to remember is that the Gors and Ungors will normally be in boxes of 10 @ £15 whilst Bestigors will be joining he Empire in regards to having "gold" units £/$ wise.
Because it forces you to rationally evaluate the cheapest means of obtaining more Gors/Ungors--which of course is to start ordering Beast Herd Boxes this very moment.
Because it forces you to rationally evaluate the cheapest means of obtaining more Gors/Ungors--which of course is to start ordering Beast Herd Boxes this very moment.
Yes , thats what i was thinking already ( its good to plan ahead ! )
Unless Bestigor sculpt is like drooling amazingly , im fine with attaching gor head onto chaos warrior body ><
reds8n wrote:
What?!? Really?
Yes.
..I guess thing to remember is that the Gors and Ungors will normally be in boxes of 10 @ £15 whilst Bestigors will be joining he Empire in regards to having "gold" units £/$ wise.
Ew... GW is dirty if they really do that...
ATM , a box of gor/ungor costs £17.60 for 12 gor and 8 ungor , that means its like Double the price???
reds8n wrote:Pretty much. I'd stock up now if you can...
..careful how you base the UNgors though..
Moar details / explanation please :'o i dont play Beast of Chaos .
Im either in denial or im horribly confused ,
ok they justify skaven storm vermin price compared to metal equivalent.
Why or how are gor / ungor price going up?
So far the other armies with "special units of 10"
£16.65 Vampire Counts Grave Guard
£16.65 Black Orcs
£16.65 Lizardmen Temple Guard
£24.45 Empire Greatswords
£11.75 Dark Elf Black Ark Corsairs
Is there another price hike comming? I cant see a core choice like Gor / Ungors
been more expensive than the Dark Elf Corsairs , and at £15!!! ( Not that i dont believe you but
this sounds rediculous even for GW standards , without a price *adjustment )
Moving Ungors to a standard 20mm base makes sense. 25mm bases are for "larger than standard" infantry models, like Chaos Warriors or Orcs.
Has nothing whatsoever to do with ripping you off. It's standardization.
Sigh... i can care less about the base size , see the above posts for price change.
Here are the responses:
LunaHound wrote:
reds8n wrote:
What?!? Really?
Yes.
..I guess thing to remember is that the Gors and Ungors will normally be in boxes of 10 @ £15 whilst Bestigors will be joining he Empire in regards to having "gold" units £/$ wise.
Ew... GW is dirty if they really do that...
ATM , a box of gor/ungor costs £17.60 for 12 gor and 8 ungor , that means its like Double the price???
reds8n wrote:Pretty much. I'd stock up now if you can...
Moving Ungors to a standard 20mm base makes sense. 25mm bases are for "larger than standard" infantry models, like Chaos Warriors or Orcs.
Has nothing whatsoever to do with ripping you off. It's standardization.
Except that it invalidates currently owned/assembled/painted minis. For our convenience!
Nothing a sharp blade and a steady hand can't fix.
I'd prefer not to have to switch 20 bases, but it's certainly not the end of the world--particularly for me, as I've yet to even prime my constructed Ungors.
bigchris1313 wrote:Nothing a sharp blade and a steady hand can't fix.
Actually, with the way I've based mine, I suspect it will be.
It's not the end of the world, no, but it's one more nail in the coffin of Warhammer Armies: Baby's First Evil Petting Zoo. I started reading these rumours looking forward to finally giving GW money after years of staying away, but the steady stream of signs that they just didn't think the army was worth putting effort into have disappointed me to say the least. Oh well, I guess I'll find some software or booze to buy instead.
Bugger all that effort modelling scenic 25mm bases for my Ungor wasted! As for the models for characters I'll be breaking out my old Rackham/Avatars of War stuff and looking around at other manufacturers. Like I did for my Chariots.......Vendel Grendel and the rest may well be getting big orders from me. If the Minotaurs are an Ogre priced box I'll get some if not ah well.
I am impressed. Shame he's not plastic nor has options for the heads or weapons like the old minos had years ago or like we are seeing from Avatars of War minis, but overall, it's a nice sculpt.
He seems to have an issue with his feet. Rather than having hooves, or just feet, he has feet that end in inward curving horns rather than toes. Whether you like the in-between option or not, thats what he seems to have.
I am not really into minotaurs because I don't know how to make them fit with my current army concept (though I may find a way), but he looks decent enough. A vast improvement on the current minos. The enormous tusks are a bit silly (he can't even bite you with them because they appear to extend further than his jaw is able to open), but I suppose that's nothing a dremmel tool can't solve. And really, every GW leader by rule has to have something stupidly OTT about them (enormous hat, giant flaming pot on the backpack, sword of cartographic proportions, etc). If there is nothing in the new Beastmen range sillier than this (knock wood), I suppose we'll be doing pretty good.
JOHIRA wrote:I am not really into minotaurs because I don't know how to make them fit with my current army concept (though I may find a way), but he looks decent enough. A vast improvement on the current minos. The enormous tusks are a bit silly (he can't even bite you with them because they appear to extend further than his jaw is able to open), but I suppose that's nothing a dremmel tool can't solve. And really, every GW leader by rule has to have something stupidly OTT about them (enormous hat, giant flaming pot on the backpack, sword of cartographic proportions, etc). If there is nothing in the new Beastmen range sillier than this (knock wood), I suppose we'll be doing pretty good.
Im going to buy them and use them in Warriors of Chaos army as chaos troll or ogres
( that should work right? )
LunaHound wrote:
Im going to buy them and use them in Warriors of Chaos army as chaos troll or ogres
( that should work right? )
Yep, sounds very suitable and I've seen it done before.
Super , i missed the previous edition where Chaos is mixed of Daemons and Beastmen.
I guess i can start beastman army for sure , and have them share some units with Warriors of Chaos
( chaos hounds i assume is also in beast codex , so minos are must have )
As long as you're stating to your opponent what is which, who would care?
They have the same base size, are about as tall etc.
As an older player who remembers the huge mixed armies of the first Realm of Chaos books, it's far more in the ancient background to have minotaurs for Chaos than any ogres or trolls since both of them are 'recruited' into chaos but minotaurs are 'created' by chaos.
I just wish they'd make Chaos armies with daemons, warriors and beasts in the same armies but return to the old days of God rivalry (Slaanesh vs Khorne, Nuggy against Tzeentch).
MeanGreenStompa wrote:I just wish they'd make Chaos armies with daemons, warriors and beasts in the same armies but return to the old days of God rivalry (Slaanesh vs Khorne, Nuggy against Tzeentch).
Chaos seriously doesnt look chaotic without the mix of daemons and beast.
They look like VIKINGS atm... ( warriors of chaos )
But BOO GW they'll never combine the armies again because thats less profit -_-
MeanGreenStompa wrote:I just wish they'd make Chaos armies with daemons, warriors and beasts in the same armies but return to the old days of God rivalry (Slaanesh vs Khorne, Nuggy against Tzeentch).
Chaos seriously doesnt look chaotic without the mix of daemons and beast.
They look like VIKINGS atm... ( warriors of chaos )
But BOO GW they'll never combine the armies again because thats less profit -_-
I just find it odd that chaos would be so nicely 'ordered' into the three specifics. The northern wastes was always supposed to be teeming with beastmen. The forests of the old world would have human cultists and communities that had fallen to chaos. And lastly daemons, they tried daemon armies before and wrote it off as a bad idea then they brought them back (and make them so overpowered as to be comical).
I may use beasts as marauders in my 2010 WoC army. I do like that Avatars of War beastman hero and wouldn't mind the excuse to use him.
http://arena-deathmatch.com/images/aow11.jpg
MeanGreenStompa wrote:
I may use beasts as marauders in my 2010 WoC army. I do like that Avatars of War beastman hero and wouldn't mind the excuse to use him.
http://arena-deathmatch.com/images/aow11.jpg
when i first read that i was confused , i thought you were talking about the movie avatar , then a "war beastman" till i click the link too sleepy i think...
Just out of curiosity , dont you ever feel that a mini ( as beautiful as they are ) that is none GW and cannot be used in GW tournament
sort of depletes in value? ( So for example , say my army list needs a beastman hero , and i bought the avatar of war . But i also want to play in a tournament
or in a GW store , thus i must rebuy a GW version )
Railguns wrote:He seems to have an issue with his feet. Rather than having hooves, or just feet, he has feet that end in inward curving horns rather than toes. Whether you like the in-between option or not, thats what he seems to have.
What I thought too. Eff that noise
His Master's Voice wrote:Well, if I ever finish my minos and get them cast, I doubt I'll have any trouble selling them.
You know I'm in whenever you get those dudes done HMV
If not this week then soon we should see the first few bits and bobs arrive in stores, including posters which show the gors, ungors, Minotaurs, Bestigors and at least one of the special characters. Note how the razorgor isn't on the poster apparently. There is a reason for that.
reds8n wrote:If not this week then soon we should see the first few bits and bobs arrive in stores, including posters which show the gors, ungors, Minotaurs, Bestigors and at least one of the special characters. Note how the razorgor isn't on the poster apparently. There is a reason for that.
If you have connections with GW , tell them that i demand them to add 2-3 minotaur into the battalion!
im not going to accept the 3 units of gor they are offering!
It does strike me as odd that there aren't any minotaurs in the box set.
That said perhaps we should wait until people have seen the plastic minotaurs before we get too po'ed. Personally...I wasn't that impressed. Reminded me very much of the plastic rat ogres from (the admittedly little) that I've seen so far.... not, you know, pull your own eyes out terrible, and a move to plastic (pricing issues aside anyway) is always a good thing in my book, if only for the conversion opportunities it opens up, but not as good as you'd have hoped. I'm still of the opinion that the best Minotaur GW did was the Bloodbowl one back in... 2nd edition time.
reds8n wrote: It does strike me as odd that there aren't any minotaurs in the box set.
That said perhaps we should wait until people have seen the plastic minotaurs before we get too po'ed. Personally...I wasn't that impressed. Reminded me very much of the plastic rat ogres from (the admittedly little) that I've seen so far.... not, you know, pull your own eyes out terrible, and a move to plastic (pricing issues aside anyway) is always a good thing in my book, if only for the conversion opportunities it opens up, but not as good as you'd have hoped. I'm still of the opinion that the best Minotaur GW did was the Bloodbowl one back in... 2nd edition time.
Is is strange how GW can miss so often on many monsters/large creatures.
To date, the best Minotaurs are from Rackham and Avatars of War...
I got a hold of the Minotaur plastics this morning and the only way I can desribe them is that a blind man had this described to him...
Told to add a bull head (with similar muscular proportions) and then he sculpted it with another layer of muscles on top.
The legs especially are vomit worthy. Some hoof/claw, some feet, all very confusing. With all the layers of muscle on the legs they look akin to this:
In saying that the upper body (and weapons, and a couple of heads) is at least able to be looked at, the rest of the model should have been thrown in the bin and restarted. IMHO worse than the current rat ogres. :(
Also I got pics of the new bestigors.
All appear to have EXACTLY the same horn set sprouting out of their helmets, I didn't get a good look to see if the faces were different. All in same, or very similar pose.
Ungor can have: Spears and shield, HW & shield.... bows! (may have been short bows). They are also able to skirmish. 20mm bases For The Loss!!!
Gors are ranked!!! So no more problems with ranking up 4 wide. LOL
The old shaman with the staff is still there.
2 new beastmen characters were in the pics, 25mm bases, no other details.
MeanGreenStompa wrote:Best minotaur GW made was the minotaur lord with the skull head and the dragon claw mutation.
I don't remember that one! Any chance of a link or a pic?
The description may be a little faulty. I have a lead GW Minotaur Lord from about 1989 with a "dragon claw" mutation and a large axe in the other hand, but the head is not a skull, it's a fierce bull head as would be expected for a Minotaur. It is a cool model.
LunaHound wrote:Can we see the plastic minos Gonads?
No, I didn't have my camera with me.
However the promo poster will be out in the next week/fortnight at all GW stores and likely independent stockists which shows (most) of the new models/options.
It will have:
New plastic minotaurs left hand side. Look at their legs and try not to vomit.
Chaos hounds (current set) at front
New bestigors
New ungor (20mm bases) multiple units with spears and 1 unit has hand weapons all ranked. From what I gather skirmish is an upgrade.
New gors- all ranked
Chaos giant up the back
3 characters
Disn't see the new metal doombull but he may have been hiding up the back.
MeanGreenStompa wrote:Best minotaur GW made was the minotaur lord with the skull head and the dragon claw mutation.
I don't remember that one! Any chance of a link or a pic?
The description may be a little faulty. I have a lead GW Minotaur Lord from about 1989 with a "dragon claw" mutation and a large axe in the other hand, but the head is not a skull, it's a fierce bull head as would be expected for a Minotaur. It is a cool model.
He was sold with a choice of two heads, one an open mouthed bellowing normal head with forward facing horns, the other a bovine skull with backward sweeping horns.
Waaagh_Gonads wrote:In saying that the upper body (and weapons, and a couple of heads) is at least able to be looked at, the rest of the model should have been thrown in the bin and restarted. IMHO worse than the current rat ogres. :(
Ouch. Oh well, I was always planning on going with Rackham's wolfen (if I can find any anymore) for my minos, so aside from playing in GW stores I'm good.
Also I got pics of the new bestigors.
All appear to have EXACTLY the same horn set sprouting out of their helmets, I didn't get a good look to see if the faces were different. All in same, or very similar pose.
It's quite hard to make bestigors look different. What sort of armour were they wearing? Plate? Scale?
Ungor can have: Spears and shield, HW & shield.... bows! (may have been short bows). They are also able to skirmish. 20mm bases For The Loss!!!
Hmm... I hope the shieldless option still exists, although I guess it's easier for me to glue on shields than to crack them off their bases (that I even put magnets on the bottom of!)
A bit off topic, but I'm trying to build my army so that they don't look skilled, and while I like the idea of having a shooting unit bows are just a level of sophistication beyond what I'm trying to portray. If I modelled a unit of gors with slings (which I think are just like shortbows except for an extra shot) and used shortbow rules, would people get upset?
2 new beastmen characters were in the pics, 25mm bases, no other details.
Thanks for the infor. How about chariots?
And how about someone who sees this picture snaps a photo for those of us in far off lands who won't get it any time soon?
The bestigor were (from memory) in plate armour, cannot remember if there was chainmail.
All of the models in the pics (ungor) had shields modeled on.
I didn't see the bow option but was told by my source who is getting the codex soon (couple weeks).
Do the slings. Just tell people, and no problems.
No chariots in the pics from memory (I forgot about chariots), I think I was too overwhelmed by the minotaurs. I had heard from a couple of GWHQ sources that they were totally pants... but man. *Shudders*
I will be at my local GW tomorrow and see if they have recieved the promo posters yet. But they don't like photos in store usually.
Bestigor and in a mix of chain and plate.. and..well... dressing gowns. Chainmail mainly though.Odd stances, to my eyes, I guess perhaps to emphasis their non human nature.
Ungor have a choice, at least model wise, of melee weaponm spear, shield and bows. Command options as well.
Railguns wrote:He seems to have an issue with his feet. Rather than having hooves, or just feet, he has feet that end in inward curving horns rather than toes. Whether you like the in-between option or not, thats what he seems to have.
Actually, it's very close to a bull's hooves, just with plantigrade feet. The round sort of cloven hooves you usually see don't really fit any animals.
Wow Gonad , you weren't kidding about the cancer tumorous legs ...
Im betting.... its the same sculptor as the plastic Catachans ?
Khrazarak is the same... old old shaman is the same
Gorthor im guessing? not on a charriot hmm...
Ungor looks like boy scouts
Gor looks the same
Bestigor looks like Gors trying to fit in skaven stormvermin armor...
I was going to start a Beastmen army next <.< but due to some of those images and the rumors about their new rules... Im not too sure, not untill I see them in better pics and official rules at least.
Buttlerthepug wrote:I was going to start a Beastmen army next <.< but due to some of those images and the rumors about their new rules... Im not too sure, not untill I see them in better pics and official rules at least.
There is only 1 hope left , which is maybe we'll see new charriot + tuskgor , or centigors.
Then maybe we can make an all cavalry beastman army T-T
Buttlerthepug wrote:I was going to start a Beastmen army next <.< but due to some of those images and the rumors about their new rules... Im not too sure, not untill I see them in better pics and official rules at least.
There is only 1 hope left , which is maybe we'll see new charriot + tuskgor , or centigors.
Then maybe we can make an all cavalry beastman army T-T
Yeah... I havent kept up with this thread till now and I might go back later and read everything but I was originially hoping I could use stuff from my WoC army for use in Beastmen so I could expand on both and apparently they are taking the shared things out? Im not sure if those rumors change, since as I said, I have not kept up with this thread... that was another reason I wanted to do it and because of that I was also turned away... I suppose the Minotaurs would be cool if I went with a nurgle theme >.<
Still... minotaurs ranking up in threes in seems then... could be a handy indicator for another army that relies upon creatures of that size with regards to the future perhaps.
There are no new centigors or chariots, this this wave anyway, aside from 1 centigor special character Blandymcblandness.
MeanGreenStompa wrote:The GW minotaurs are a new low.
Well hello there Avatars of War...
Ooooo I just looked at the AoW ones again, although they are about $10 more they are worth every penny due to the GW ones... I had totally forgot about them... ty good sir
MeanGreenStompa wrote:The GW minotaurs are a new low.
Well hello there Avatars of War...
Ooooo I just looked at the AoW ones again, although they are about $10 more they are worth every penny due to the GW ones... I had totally forgot about them... ty good sir
Im going back to using these , so i'll recommend them to you too ^^
sure they arnt cows but... it could work?
MeanGreenStompa wrote:If they would only preview their greens instead of their secret hush hush behaviour we could warn them they're making a stinker and change it.
But then, GW aren't so good at listening to feedback I guess.
/shrug. Shame about the minos, I would have obtained some for my WoC army but I'll give it a miss now.
Well , im sure GW is best at telling us what we should like.
Im still going to buy them, going to shave off some of those tumor legs and give them some GS leg armor?
MeanGreenStompa wrote:If they would only preview their greens instead of their secret hush hush behaviour we could warn them they're making a stinker and change it.
But then, GW aren't so good at listening to feedback I guess.
/shrug. Shame about the minos, I would have obtained some for my WoC army but I'll give it a miss now.
I have a theory on the Minotaurs.
Bear with me here, it's kind of out there:
We're used to seeing the "generic" AD&D/High Fantasy/Greek mythos minotaur, which depending on the source material is a freakish birth(Greek mythos) or a sentient race that somehow evolved into that form.
Like every other form of Beasts or Servant of Chaos...they all started their lives out as human(or at times--Dark Elven). The Gors and Ungors and Minotaurs aren't naturally occurring or even a freakish birth like the Greek version. We're seeing what is essentially a pattern of mutations that then gets classified as "Minotaurs."
I mean, it's just a theory. But if they're trying to move away from just copying random beasts from lore--it'd be fantastic for them to y'know...rename things.
But they can't really do that either, because somewhere along the line someone would complain.
MeanGreenStompa wrote:If they would only preview their greens instead of their secret hush hush behaviour we could warn them they're making a stinker and change it.
But then, GW aren't so good at listening to feedback I guess.
/shrug. Shame about the minos, I would have obtained some for my WoC army but I'll give it a miss now.
I have a theory on the Minotaurs.
Bear with me here, it's kind of out there:
We're used to seeing the "generic" AD&D/High Fantasy/Greek mythos minotaur, which depending on the source material is a freakish birth(Greek mythos) or a sentient race that somehow evolved into that form.
Like every other form of Beasts or Servant of Chaos...they all started their lives out as human(or at times--Dark Elven). The Gors and Ungors and Minotaurs aren't naturally occurring or even a freakish birth like the Greek version. We're seeing what is essentially a pattern of mutations that then gets classified as "Minotaurs."
I mean, it's just a theory. But if they're trying to move away from just copying random beasts from lore--it'd be fantastic for them to y'know...rename things.
But they can't really do that either, because somewhere along the line someone would complain.
Well its an interesting theory , but most of us arnt so much worried about how they look compared to generic minos...
we are especially freaked out by the tumor looking muscles that is suspiciously similar to plastic catachans.
MeanGreenStompa wrote:If they would only preview their greens instead of their secret hush hush behaviour we could warn them they're making a stinker and change it.
But then, GW aren't so good at listening to feedback I guess.
/shrug. Shame about the minos, I would have obtained some for my WoC army but I'll give it a miss now.
Apparently the sculptor was asked to add another layer of muscles to the minotaurs. If you really look at them you'll notice (not that you need to look hard), that they simply have to many small muscles. (ignoring the feet)
For the inspiration of the head:
I would have added larger muscles to the sides of the body, and longer ones to the lower legs.
MeanGreenStompa wrote:If they would only preview their greens instead of their secret hush hush behaviour we could warn them they're making a stinker and change it.
But then, GW aren't so good at listening to feedback I guess.
/shrug. Shame about the minos, I would have obtained some for my WoC army but I'll give it a miss now.
Apparently the sculptor was asked to add another layer of muscles to the minotaurs. If you really look at them you'll notice (not that you need to look hard), that they simply have to many small muscles. (ignoring the feet)
For the inspiration of the head:
I would have added larger muscles to the sides of the body, and longer ones to the lower legs.
...and first post.
Interesting theory , but the execution looks nothing like muscles.
It infact , looks like that horrendous fat lady picture i linked in previous page -_-
MeanGreenStompa wrote:If they would only preview their greens instead of their secret hush hush behaviour we could warn them they're making a stinker and change it.
But then, GW aren't so good at listening to feedback I guess.
/shrug. Shame about the minos, I would have obtained some for my WoC army but I'll give it a miss now.
Apparently the sculptor was asked to add another layer of muscles to the minotaurs. If you really look at them you'll notice (not that you need to look hard), that they simply have to many small muscles. (ignoring the feet)
For the inspiration of the head:
I would have added larger muscles to the sides of the body, and longer ones to the lower legs.
...and first post.
Interesting theory , but the execution looks nothing like muscles.
It infact , looks like that horrendous fat lady picture i linked in previous page -_-
If you crop the ears, and the rest of the body, they have the same flat area on the front of the face.
I agree that the muscles look off, and rather ambiguous. They should have just went with more armor as minotaurs with heavy armor would be great.
1) As for the minotaurs... that's a serious failure. I wasn't planning on getting any anyway, but those are ridiculous. They should have never been let past the green stage.
2) Bestigors... I don't mind them, actually. I like mine better, but I bet I could get those guys to fit in with some conversions. And I don't mind the uniformity- bestigors are supposed to be the rare exception to Beastmen disorder anyway.
3) Gors/Ungors... they look like they can blend in with the current range, and that's about all I can hope for at this point. I quite like some of the Gor axes.
Back from a heavy season's parties with my belly full of cakes and sweets, just to vomit it all by looking at this topic... no its not the fat ladies its the minotaurs, I see chaos ogres all over again.
Also this army shows me again why I totally abandoned warhammer fantasy... ugly same posed big regiments with NO charisma.
NAVARRO wrote:Back from a heavy season's parties with my belly full of cakes and sweets, just to vomit it all by looking at this topic... no its not the fat ladies its the minotaurs, I see chaos ogres all over again.
Also this army shows me again why I totally abandoned warhammer fantasy... ugly same posed big regiments with NO charisma.
If only I could find a ILyad minotaur.
Iliad is like the Holy Grail of Lost Miniature Manufacturers right now. I'm hunting some of the Barbarians from their line for years and I still can't get them.
NAVARRO wrote:Back from a heavy season's parties with my belly full of cakes and sweets, just to vomit it all by looking at this topic... no its not the fat ladies its the minotaurs, I see chaos ogres all over again.
Also this army shows me again why I totally abandoned warhammer fantasy... ugly same posed big regiments with NO charisma.
If only I could find a ILyad minotaur.
Iliad is like the Holy Grail of Lost Miniature Manufacturers right now. I'm hunting some of the Barbarians from their line for years and I still can't get them.
Vorags are hard to get, I got one this christmas for 120usd.
Here's my dream team I'm hunting down...
And for people wondering what minotaur i was refering to hes the one on top... sculpted by allan carrasco and still the best minotaur ever sculpted.
I have both the black orc (3 flags) and the Taurg from Illyad. Got them just when the company folded at cost. Had 2 of the Vorag Barbarians that I sold off about 12 months ago.
Oh, come on, nothing Privateer has ever done is anywhere near that thing awfulness. Jebus Q. Buddha! That's some horrible sculpting, though it reminds me a bit of Agrajag.
Wow... these are amazingly bad. Why not just take the tuskers off the old chariot.
I'm really disappointed in the bestigors as well. The horns are too uniform. It is one of those things that really make the regular gors stand out as a nice plastic kit.
LunaHound wrote: Im going back to using these , so i'll recommend them to you too ^^ sure they arnt cows but... it could work? <Wulfen Pic>
Bingo Luna, and I know at least a few people using beautiful confrontation werewolves as minos. Ultimately, if the rules aren't utter trash, GW is only hurting itself by releasing uninspiring (ok vomit-inducing) models along with the new book. There are plenty of original beasts players who are quite excited to get their old herds updated and back on the rampage again, with no need to buy new models save for (converting!) a razorgor here or a new character there.
My fear? That the rules are an amateurish mish-mash that falls on its face as well ...
NAVARRO wrote:its the minotaurs, I see chaos ogres all over again.
We have no idea who's sculpting this BoC range, right? Because I do wonder if GeeDub gave the project to some newbie team to practice sculpting a new plastic kit (vominos & same-igors), a couple characters, a biggish monster (horror pig) and revamping and recutting a plastic kit (gors & ungors). Meh, not trying to pin the blame, but certainly not getting anything close to the quality of, say, the plastic chaos cavalry kits off this release
Here's hoping the rules can hold up, because we can always handle the model angle even if The Dub can't.
- Salvage
* Also: I don't totally hate the minos, they'll be good conversion fodder for big mutants and such for years to come. With a more unique color scheme and such they might paint up decent too, and who's to say what else is in the kit. I'm seeing a lot of the same weapons in that shot, but maybe there are armored options, gw options, etc.
I dunno what everyone is complaining about. So they look like they're wearing Hulk inflatable muscles. So what? We'll only be stuck with them for what, the next 10 years? *facepalm*
Ya gotta wonder who the heck greenlit those for release. Thank god I probably have enough metal Minos for my needs.
Regarding the Razorgor, it really is the pile of steaming poo it was rumored to be. It almost looks like one of the famed "stupid things." Which is kinda cool, actually.
Is some of this the result of GW's rumored faster pace of releases?
I don't care about the models. They could be wearing clown hats and I'll buy them if their rules are good. I want another good army book, one that brings Beasts of Chaos up to par with Dark Elves, Vampire Counts, Warriors of Chaos, etc. (I'm fine with us being weaker than Daemons).
It sounds like we are yet another iteration of Fighting Infantry, which still doesn't work. On the other hand, this big monster has some potential, and if the characters are sufficiently awesome (items + gifts = Vampire style characters w/out the magic) and if there's a way to get them into skirmisher units, it could still be pretty tough. We'll see...
Oh, come on, nothing Privateer has ever done is anywhere near that thing awfulness. Jebus Q. Buddha! That's some horrible sculpting, though it reminds me a bit of Agrajag.
No, I was suggesting we all just gently put the horrible minis down and go play warmachine instead...
...
I like the models the way they are, though I've found them to be more fragile than expected as a unit in games. Big scary models don't always equate to scary in games if the rules leave them a bit frail.
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