I'm not sure if this is old news or not. I have just looked through the most recent posts & haven't seen anything about it.....

I have it on good authority that Dark Eldar are the next army to have a new Codex. This is apparently to be released in conjunction with some fantasy rules/models update.
This will be in a few months & apparently they are being 'test' played atm.

After that Black Templars are to be re-done. This will happen towards the end of 2010. (Another Marine Army! - I guess they need it though)

The next big thing is to be Necrons towards the start of next year.

I hope that this brings excitement to many & again, is not old news.

Awesome if true. Brace for calls of salt.

Yessssssssss Black Templar!!! I can pick my boys up and dust them off again!

Scottywan82 wrote:Awesome if true. Brace for calls of salt.

Should have just combined SW, BA and BT into one book.. "Codex: Assault Marines"

Or "Codex: You play vanilla? Sucks to be you".. Perhaps Codex BT can be "Codex: Black Templars - The First Codex to not get the same 5 DE players bitching about how long its been for them"

Ha...Grey Knights will get their codex before Templar for sure...nobody knows if it's before DE or not.

Necrons need it...but no one has good authority on that rumor yet.

Klueless wrote:I'm not sure if this is old news or not. I have just looked through the most recent posts & haven't seen anything about it.....

I have it on good authority that Dark Eldar are the next army to have a new Codex. This is apparently to be released in conjunction with some fantasy rules/models update.
This will be in a few months & apparently they are being 'test' played atm.

Nope.

Playtesting etc is well and truly finished.

Book is at the printers.

reds8n wrote:Nope.

Playtesting etc is well and truly finished.

Book is at the printers.

Before 10/10/10? I fear a small corner of the internet may explode.

Scottywan82 wrote:Awesome if true. Brace for calls of salt.

reds8n wrote:
Nope.

Playtesting etc is well and truly finished.

Book is at the printers.

Book by the guy who did the last Eldar codex, minis by Jes G himself. I am excited by this and I hated the original Dark Eldar. If they're all I hope they'll be, then it's going to be my second 40k army.

reds8n wrote:Book is at the printers.

Just as appropriate would be a pic of this same face but grabbing wallet.

Huzzah! I have no intention of collecting them, but I'm dying to see what 12 years of games development does to a splinter rifle.

Allow me to show you what I'm going to use to bury this thread:

The saltiness would have more traction if the report had not come from Red.

Ok BT codex after is sweet if true, but there are not that many SM codices left to update.

There are three things I am waiting for 1) Tau to be updated, 2) two non-marine codices to be come out in a row, and 3) There to be space Dwarfs to be released. The odds drop the more you go down the list.

back on topic: Congrats on your patience DE players if the is true.

Kirasu wrote:Perhaps Codex BT can be "Codex: Black Templars - The First Codex to not get the same 5 DE players bitching about how long its been for them"

That has a pleasing ring to it - not sure it will fit on the cover though.

fullheadofhair wrote:

Kirasu wrote:Perhaps Codex BT can be "Codex: Black Templars - The First Codex to not get the same 5 DE players bitching about how long its been for them"

That has a pleasing ring to it - not sure it will fit on the cover though.

It'll also be the "First Codex With No Cover Art, And Just A Lot of Words On The Front".

No, no. DE need three things badly. In order, they are:

(1) New Codex

(2) New Miniatures

(3) New Art

MeanGreenStompa wrote:
Book by the guy who did the last Eldar codex

Phil Kelly, right? That should turn out fairly well, then.

MeanGreenStompa wrote:

reds8n wrote:
Nope.

Playtesting etc is well and truly finished.

Book is at the printers.

Book by the guy who did the last Eldar codex, minis by Jes G himself. I am excited by this and I hated the original Dark Eldar. If they're all I hope they'll be, then it's going to be my second 40k army.

Same here. I've come perilously close to starting a Khorne Berzerker army on more than one occasion, but if the release is this close I might wait to see see how DE pan out. I just like the idea of them for some reason. I think it's partly down to how aggro they sound on Dawn Of War...

'The Banner! RAISE THE BANNER!!1!!'

Manchu wrote:No, no. DE need three things badly. In order, they are:

(1) New Codex

(2) New Miniatures

(3) New Art

Perhaps 1 and 2 should share the podium.

Albatross wrote:

MeanGreenStompa wrote:

reds8n wrote:
Nope.

Playtesting etc is well and truly finished.

Book is at the printers.

Book by the guy who did the last Eldar codex, minis by Jes G himself. I am excited by this and I hated the original Dark Eldar. If they're all I hope they'll be, then it's going to be my second 40k army.

Same here. I've come perilously close to starting a Khorne Berzerker army on more than one occasion, but if the release is this close I might wait to see see how DE pan out. I just like the idea of them for some reason. I think it's partly down to how aggro they sound on Dawn Of War...

'The Banner! RAISE THE BANNER!!1!!'

They also looked quite good in Dawn of War, didn't they? Barely any ridiculous hair in sight, and Wyches that are clearly female.

So the fact that I have just bought a Dark Eldar Army from a friend, is this a good or a bad thing?

fwiw just waiting to collect.

reds8n wrote:

Klueless wrote:I have it on good authority that Dark Eldar are the next army to have a new Codex.

This will be in a few months & apparently they are being 'test' played atm.

Nope.

Playtesting etc is well and truly finished.

Book is at the printers.

Interesting.

If it's actually coming out in the next few months, I'll be glad to meet Yakface at the Bunker for a picture of me paying up.


Tho if they could just wait almost exactly 6 more months, that'd be awesome for everybody!

If this is true can we then get back to whinning for a squat codex?

Cheese Elemental wrote:

Albatross wrote:

MeanGreenStompa wrote:

reds8n wrote:
Nope.

Playtesting etc is well and truly finished.

Book is at the printers.

Book by the guy who did the last Eldar codex, minis by Jes G himself. I am excited by this and I hated the original Dark Eldar. If they're all I hope they'll be, then it's going to be my second 40k army.

Same here. I've come perilously close to starting a Khorne Berzerker army on more than one occasion, but if the release is this close I might wait to see see how DE pan out. I just like the idea of them for some reason. I think it's partly down to how aggro they sound on Dawn Of War...

'The Banner! RAISE THE BANNER!!1!!'

They also looked quite good in Dawn of War, didn't they? Barely any ridiculous hair in sight, and Wyches that are clearly female.

Yeah, I thought so - they easily have the best voices out of any of the races (with the possible exception of Orks). 'SPEED, BRINGER OF DEATH!' and 'is it time to loot and kill?' It's like they're all on crack or something. Brilliant.

Drugged-up space perverts.

i would *THINK* that its dark eldar adn whfb 8th edition then inquisition

black Templars with a new codex? what a load of rubbish >.>

Oh joy, another new revision is in store for Space Marines! This is on the heels of Blood Angels, I think Space Wolves also got some new stuff, now we are reviseing Black Templars...Aren't the current Templar models still relevent?...Shouldn't we focus on updateing some of the armies that are still trailing from 3rd and 4th addition rulesets before doing more marine rules? I think Necrons could use a good reboot, could care less about Dark Eldar, I always thought the models were lousy, and the concept was somewhat silly as well. I wish they could focus on finishing some of the stuff that has been "in the works" for too long; like plastic stormtroopers and roughriders for IG, maybe some updated Tau models, or new Inquisition stuff. I would desperatly like to see some new armies for 40k, maybe AdMech? or renegade guardsmen (not the crazy expensive FW ones), maybe a new plastic guard army (instead of Catachan add on units, who plays Catachans?) But GW keeps rolling out some new re-vamp on Marines every 2 months, and I don't see where re-doing the Dark Eldar line is gonna be any big hit, either. The Necron revision will probably be somewhat successful, other two are a waste.

gil gerard wrote:maybe some updated Tau models

What needs updating besides Kroot Hounds?
If they come out with new rules, then new models apply, otherwise, Tau are doing pretty good models-wise. More plastic guard would be fun, but perhaps unnecessary.

Kinda annoyed by squishing BT between DE and 'crons, but if one more goddamned Marine codex is all we need to justify giving DE and 'cron players new codices, then I'm still incredibly happy.

There's always a Marine codex for every other update, its just the way it is, always will be. They're easy to do and great for profits. Forget about getting a new race, its just not happening. Necrons and =I= are in the works, alot of talk about Grey Knights coming soon. Sorry your army of choice isn't getting the attention you want, but suck it up, DE deserve this.

Red, what does this mean for Daemonhunters players?

Kid_Kyoto wrote:If this is true can we then get back to whinning for a squat codex?

I'm sure you'll find other things to whine about.

edit: double post

Flashman wrote:Huzzah! I have no intention of collecting them, but I'm dying to see what 12 years of games development does to a splinter rifle.

Prolly nothing.

I am going to be so happy if this is true!


Also really pissed since I just started finishing all the sails on my raiders....

Good news if it's true, but these posts are the reason I keep the trusty salt shaker close to the keyboard - just in case! LOL!!

mrwittwer wrote:

Flashman wrote:Huzzah! I have no intention of collecting them, but I'm dying to see what 12 years of games development does to a splinter rifle.

Prolly nothing.

They've had a lot of time to get splinterier.

Nightwatch wrote:

gil gerard wrote:maybe some updated Tau models

What needs updating besides Kroot Hounds?

Really? Geeze one more model should just jump out at you due to how much green stuff you need to fill it's gaps.

Anyway:

Krootox
skyray/hammerhead box merger, since if you buy a skyray you also get all the hammerhead parts...
Many will say the crisis suits, need plastic forge world models or something comparable

Aside from that... making the half of the tau codex that most (95%) of players don't use useable. Oh and their busted wargear and joke-tackular special characters.

This would quite disapoint me to be honest... Dark Elder (40k), some fantasy, black templar (40k), necrons (40k)...

hmmm needless to say Id like to see some of the out of date fantasy army books to be redone...

Best GW sculptor: Check
Best GW Game Designer: Check
Me finally collecting another Xenos army: Check
Wife making a joke about me collecting another army: Check

Kervin wrote: Congrats on your patience DE players if the is true.

There hasn't been any patience hahaha.

I'm thirsty after reading this whole thread. But red (or anyone else), do you have any news about chaos? I've been debating on whether or not to start one up and wanted to see if there's anything out there to say whether or not they might be getting a new book.

*Sigh* more space marines ... that aren't' chaos!! Oh well, looking forward to dark eldar.

Dark Eldar, the Chinese Democracy of wargaming.

reds8n wrote:

Klueless wrote:I'm not sure if this is old news or not. I have just looked through the most recent posts & haven't seen anything about it.....

I have it on good authority that Dark Eldar are the next army to have a new Codex. This is apparently to be released in conjunction with some fantasy rules/models update.
This will be in a few months & apparently they are being 'test' played atm.

Nope.

Playtesting etc is well and truly finished.

Book is at the printers.

I don't believe you. (arms crossed on chest)

gil gerard wrote:Oh joy, another new revision is in store for Space Marines! This is on the heels of Blood Angels, I think Space Wolves also got some new stuff, now we are reviseing Black Templars...Aren't the current Templar models still relevent?...Shouldn't we focus on updateing some of the armies that are still trailing from 3rd and 4th addition rulesets before doing more marine rules? I think Necrons could use a good reboot, could care less about Dark Eldar, I always thought the models were lousy, and the concept was somewhat silly as well. I wish they could focus on finishing some of the stuff that has been "in the works" for too long; like plastic stormtroopers and roughriders for IG, maybe some updated Tau models, or new Inquisition stuff. I would desperatly like to see some new armies for 40k, maybe AdMech? or renegade guardsmen (not the crazy expensive FW ones), maybe a new plastic guard army (instead of Catachan add on units, who plays Catachans?) But GW keeps rolling out some new re-vamp on Marines every 2 months, and I don't see where re-doing the Dark Eldar line is gonna be any big hit, either. The Necron revision will probably be somewhat successful, other two are a waste.

Holy hell, quit your bitching about Marines. They could redo Codex: Blood Angels immediately after Dark Eldar and I wouldn't care, since it's been over a decade since the Dark Eldar had their codex release, not counting the stopgap "second edition" that didn't even come with new models if I recall. This is like whining that you won the lottery because you have to go pay gas money to drive to the bank.

SlaveToDorkness wrote:Dark Eldar, the Chinese Democracy of wargaming.

DE has CD beat by one year, if the rumors hold true.

Brother SRM wrote:. This is like whining that you won the lottery because you have to go pay gas money to drive to the bank.

I lol'd.

And its going in the sig.

Brother SRM wrote:

gil gerard wrote:Oh joy, another new revision is in store for Space Marines! This is on the heels of Blood Angels, I think Space Wolves also got some new stuff, now we are reviseing Black Templars...Aren't the current Templar models still relevent?...Shouldn't we focus on updateing some of the armies that are still trailing from 3rd and 4th addition rulesets before doing more marine rules? I think Necrons could use a good reboot, could care less about Dark Eldar, I always thought the models were lousy, and the concept was somewhat silly as well. I wish they could focus on finishing some of the stuff that has been "in the works" for too long; like plastic stormtroopers and roughriders for IG, maybe some updated Tau models, or new Inquisition stuff. I would desperatly like to see some new armies for 40k, maybe AdMech? or renegade guardsmen (not the crazy expensive FW ones), maybe a new plastic guard army (instead of Catachan add on units, who plays Catachans?) But GW keeps rolling out some new re-vamp on Marines every 2 months, and I don't see where re-doing the Dark Eldar line is gonna be any big hit, either. The Necron revision will probably be somewhat successful, other two are a waste.

Holy hell, quit your bitching about Marines. They could redo Codex: Blood Angels immediately after Dark Eldar and I wouldn't care, since it's been over a decade since the Dark Eldar had their codex release, not counting the stopgap "second edition" that didn't even come with new models if I recall. This is like whining that you won the lottery because you have to go pay gas money to drive to the bank.

Really, and on top of that - playing against SW or BA now feels like playing a unique army, instead of just marines with a palette swap.

GET OVER HERE~

SlaveToDorkness wrote:Dark Eldar, the Chinese Democracy of wargaming.

GnR took 15 years for CD.

DE got an update, so we should compare with BA, then Woofs.

hrm, chaos elves then crusade nutjobs, eh I believe it.... yeah I believe it.

I mean even if this has no real basis we're down to so few non updated codices that every guess is probable. Except Tau, no love for them from GW.

Why do I get so much satisfaction from the tears of those whining about marines getting another codex. A large majority of the fluff written is about marines, the story centers around their desperate struggle to save mankind from just about every other army created. I got news for you guys, if I was going to make a model line in the transformer universe, for example, it would have a bunch of bad-ass robots in it and very very few sam/mikhala dolls in it. Space marines should be the main focus of GW, and I am glad they are.

I'm also extremely happy when the xenos get new codices. I'm happy for new material to come out, period. Why do you guys have to always find something to complain about? BT have waited 5 years, let's see a new codex!

Can't wait for BT.

I thought GK were much farther along than BT in development. I frankly expect to see the boys in grey before the boys in black.

mrwittwer wrote:

Flashman wrote:Huzzah! I have no intention of collecting them, but I'm dying to see what 12 years of games development does to a splinter rifle.

Prolly nothing.

They gain a Crossbow prod on the front for decoration.

Terminus wrote:I thought GK were much farther along than BT in development. I frankly expect to see the boys in grey before the boys in black.

Yes, so would I, but that's all a fair old while yet either way I reckon.

Please bear in mind that the book going to the printers still means we are, literally, months away from any release. I haven't got a definate date but end of quarter 3/quarter 4 period sounds about right to me..hell, there could even be anoterh codex before them. I knew the Russ recut was coming, but the "Spearhead" supplement is totally out of the blue.

Which is nice.

..so Mr. Wang might still get his money .

Again nailing any firm release date out of the 3 month or so period is ....awkward... at least.

But red (or anyone else), do you have any news about chaos?

Nope, sorry.

I'm disappointed that BT are being redone. Are our current generation of collectors too dull to proxy Templar models onto another army list if their own isn't quite want they want it to be?

I'm very keen to see the new DE models though.

apwill4765 wrote:Why do I get so much satisfaction from the tears of those whining about marines getting another codex. A large majority of the fluff written is about marines

The perspective from which a story is told does not define the central figures of that story world. It only defines the central figures of that particular story. The plight of the SMs is really no different from the plight of the Necrons. Or Tyranids. Or Tau. "Stamp out those who are not like us and claim this galaxy." It's the ideology of every race in 40k.

the story centers around their desperate struggle to save mankind from just about every other army created

You make it sound as though Tyranids join hands with Necrons to fight space marines. Of course Space Marines fight against all the other armies... so do all the other armies! There is no central race. Abundance of fluff doesn't make SMs "the main race of the 40k universe" it only makes them the main race of the whatever stories feature them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kryppers wrote:I'm disappointed that BT are being redone. Are our current generation of collectors too dull to proxy Templar models onto another army list if their own isn't quite want they want it to be?

I'm very keen to see the new DE models though.

That's because they'll look completely new and different. New Space Marines look neither new, nor different. The feeling I get from all these DE rumors is that new DE can easily be considered a brand new 40k army/race, so dramatic will be the changes to them.

Defiler wrote:
Really, and on top of that - playing against SW or BA now feels like playing a unique army, instead of just marines with a palette swap.

Eh, they really feel more like "Marines...but *BETTER*...with more (blood,woflyness,etc), and even more Space Marine-y!" Really, at this point, it's all "Space Marines +" and they're all different in the exact same way, that being more assault oriented. BA's are faster with some beefy CC units, while Wolves are Chaos Marines with counterattack and acute senses and cheaper upgrades (for the same base cost).



It's good to hear DE are not only next, but soon. Should be interesting.

Ok, now say that the following codex after DE and BT is SoB and I'll have to sell my car, or maybe ask for a loan >_<'


Automatically Appended Next Post:

SlaveToDorkness wrote:Dark Eldar, the Chinese Democracy of wargaming.

Well... at least I'm happy that it won't be the Duke Nukem Forever of wargaming

Defiler wrote:Really, and on top of that - playing against SW or BA now feels like playing a unique army, instead of just marines with a palette swap.

GET OVER HERE~

lol

Anyway, um...crap. It seems there's a lot of DE talk now and I just realized I have no money. I was hoping I'd have enough saved up to buy a 2000 point army in one go, but I don't have a dime and it looks like the release really is upon us?

...so how much would I get for selling my plasma, anyway?

There are so many old models that need redoing so why pick Black Templars? Can't they leave the Space Marines alone for just ONE year?

I still believe that Grey Knights are the next Codex, DE and Necrons close but probably next year, and BT not in the near future. Let's see.

BTW here is a prediction by MajorWesJanson from Warseer:

I'm still sticking with my prediction of DE, then GK, then Necrons.

Fantasy 8th ought to be out in July/August, with the new Starter somewhere from August to Oct, and the first new book for them in Feb.

Nov/Dec is usually Holiday stuff, various bundles and wave releases.

Edit: Updating my predicted schedule:
May: Orcs and Goblins Models, LotR Battlehosts
June: Spearhead
July: WHFB 8th Edition Rulebook, wave models (cavalry kits, Daemon Models?)
August: Dark Eldar (Warriors, Wytches, Raider/Ravager kit, Hellions, metal new units, character blisters)
September: WHFB 8th Starter
October: Grey Knights (PAGK, GKTs, Storm Raven, ISTs in plastic)
November: Holiday bundles (Megaforces), wave models (1-2 DE plastics), and big kits (Eldar Grav Tank?)
December: see above
January: Necrons
February: Fantasy Army (TK or OK I suspect)
March: Wave release for DE, new supplement (maybe siege battles for fantasy?)
April: Black Templars
May: Fantasy Army

And 79hastings69's comment:

That's one of the strongest lists I've seen, it's not 100% accurate IMO but not bad. I think your fantasy feb 2011 entry is incorrect, don't expect the same running order as before, it "could" be something that was done at the beginning of 7th that gets an early update..... however a 40k rumour thread (not where I normally hang out) isn't really the place to discuss that. Overall not a bad guess/guidline for things to come.

Orky-Kowboy wrote:There are so many old models that need redoing so why pick Black Templars? Can't they leave the Space Marines alone for just ONE year?

Maybe because half the rules in the Black Templar codex have no efect because of the new rulebook

I am sad if they get redone i won't me able to field my terminator chaplin with lightning claws

Please not Black Templars again. We already had a sub-chapter this year and some other armies need it much more. Or got BTs somehow got shafted with the last rulebook?
I thought Grey Knights would be enxt. At least they need it.

Anyway, I hope a new Codex for Templars or Knights means we get a plastic Stormraven.

Lots of whining as per usual but I doubt the BT redo if indeed one is coming will be until next year and after Necrons at the least. GK seem to be the only power armour we'll see this year.

Codex: Grey Knights just means the loss of yet another of my armies.

Colour me not excited, wannabe Thunderhawk or no.


Certainly can't complain about BT though. I love the BT sprue, and I have the beginnings of a BT army, so new models = YAY!

Wasn't it said last year that GW would gak out marines first and look to the rest of the armies after that?

BrookM wrote:Wasn't it said last year that GW would gak out marines first and look to the rest of the armies after that?

That's what I remember

Vaktathi wrote:

Eh, they really feel more like "Marines...but *BETTER*...with more (blood,woflyness,etc), and even more Space Marine-y!" Really, at this point, it's all "Space Marines +" and they're all different in the exact same way, that being more assault oriented. BA's are faster with some beefy CC units, while Wolves are Chaos Marines with counterattack and acute senses and cheaper upgrades (for the same base cost).

I am happy to hear Black Templars are getting an update, and I hope GKs SOBs and Dark Angels are soon to follow. There is nothing wrong with imperium updates... that being said I also don't belive that "Spinoff Marines" are any 'better' or worse then "Base Marines" more so DIFFERENT. Wolves are VERY gimmicky, they have some drastically different choices then their Base counterparts and some extremely important special rules to them. They also seem more partial to melee combat then that of the Base Marines.

Blood angels are similar[ly gimmmicky]... people say that the new dex is just "stupid overpowered" yet from what I have seen, their cost and weakness are actually quite balanced. They are a close combat army... but argueably they are the WORST of their peers.(Same with Spacewolves). Orks completely outswarm them, nids have such high Toughness they easily out last them, Banshees strike first, and quite leathally at that, and dark eldar could kill them with a wink of their Eye (A 140point archon can wipe out a full str fully upgraded Sanguinary guard unit before giving them a rebuttal, Incubi rip apart Vangaurd Vets and assault marines like paper, and their SCs don't last a second to some of the DE weaponry out there).

To me, at least as far as BA/SW work, they seem like the Kroot of the imperium... they want to use their fists, but the bullies of the galaxy are just so much better, they should stick to throwing stones like the rest of the weaker kids on the playground (IE Base Marines). Now, when you look deeper into it, what counterbalances this are the "gimmicks" of the given armies. The Wolves have their wargear, with good strat you can make some crazy combos. Angels have their special rules and combo formations. Templars have their prayers, and Dark angels have Termi-troops. I like this because what it tells me is this...

Space Marines are a PERFECT starter army. Very well rounded and basic in what they do... when you learn more and start wanting to field more complex strats, you upgrade to any of the Spinoff Marine varients that fits your playstyle. In all honesty, I wish there were more space marine knockoffs (a heavy-ranged variant or even a caster varient ((Blood Ravens?)) ) but since there are not, I am happy to wait a few more months for my turn at codex updates (my main armies are Chaos Daemons, Chaos Space Marines, and Dark Eldar) to have a more diverse opposition and keep my personal tactica sharp.

What I would like to see more of however are game balancing Errata... for example, fixing the point costs and stats of identical wargear that has since been upgraded (for instance, Storm shields) that happen inbetween codex launches, the fact that armies like the Dark Eldar, Black Templars, Daemonhunters, and Necrons have gone so long with outdated rules is stupid, it would not take much time to fix these small portions of the armies and would promote people buying more of their army (or perhaps even a new one) in between dex launches. TBH I stopped buying Dark Eldar the moment I read the FAQ/Errata stating that "Trophy Racks no longer serve any function in the current edition of the rules" that is a bs workaround to an easily fixable issue (for instance, Trophy Racks make it so that a squad can never Tie in melee and and +1 to the leadership test required for a unit that has lost in melee... that took me five seconds) and it is issues like these that a company such as GW should not have trouble fixing...

Soap box aside, I look foward to the new DE Dex, and BT as well! Necrons kinda scare me, but it is better then Tau getting one so soon! I will still wait for chaos (not holding my breath of course) but some how I see them coming along side Dark Angels as Cypher will probably end up switching teams for 5th edition (since he wasn't in the 4th edition Chaos Space Marine Dex and all...)

Daemon-Archon Ren wrote: Now, when you look deeper into it, what counterbalances this are the "gimmicks" of the given armies. The Wolves have their wargear, with good strat you can make some crazy combos. Angels have their special rules and combo formations. Templars have their prayers, and Dark angels have Termi-troops. I like this because what it tells me is this...

And that is what keeps the marine flavor fresh(ish).

Daemon-Archon Ren wrote:Space Marines are a PERFECT starter army. Very well rounded and basic in what they do... when you learn more and start wanting to field more complex strats, you upgrade to any of the Spinoff Marine varients that fits your playstyle. In all honesty, I wish there were more space marine knockoffs (a heavy-ranged variant or even a caster varient ((Blood Ravens?))

Agreed that SM's are the perfect starter army and great for when you want to expand into another variant or keep it simple... The only thing i would love to see would be blood ravens, The vallina SM codex is already heavy-ranged based pretty much.

Daemon-Archon Ren wrote:What I would like to see more of however are game balancing Errata... for example, fixing the point costs and stats of identical wargear that has since been upgraded (for instance, Storm shields) that happen inbetween codex launches, the fact that armies like the Dark Eldar, Black Templars, Daemonhunters, and Necrons have gone so long with outdated rules is stupid, it would not take much time to fix these small portions of the armies and would promote people buying more of their army (or perhaps even a new one) in between dex launches.

Indeed.. it is rather slowed to leave some rules for some units/armies completely ruined or negated entirely. Necrons are pretty much wrecked from 5th editon and Tau suffered a bit. What they need is a dynamic pdf that is updated monthly or something so armies don't suddenly find 1/2 their wargear broken.

Daemon-Archon Ren wrote:Soap box aside, I look foward to the new DE Dex, and BT as well! Necrons kinda scare me, but it is better then Tau getting one so soon! I will still wait for chaos (not holding my breath of course) but some how I see them coming along side Dark Angels as Cypher will probably end up switching teams for 5th edition (since he wasn't in the 4th edition Chaos Space Marine Dex and all...)

Yes... Bring on my enemies! A great person once said "A Hero can only be as great as his Nemisis". Once 5th editon Tau arises i shall reclaim the very stars themselves for the greater good!! Either that or my Blood angels purge every bugger they find ;p

In September Compel wrote:
Another wee tidbit from him. "I only tend to work on one army book and one codex a year." Also, Robin Cruddace added that "the development for the Imperial Guard codex lasted a year."

Now, some good news, ish from Phil.

Phil Kelly would really, really love to write the Dark Eldar codex. He said that the work he was most proud of was the Eldar codex and he feels that him writing the Dark Eldar one, I can't think of the exact words he said but it was along the lines of, "it would be a great extension and conclusion of it." I can't understate the feeling I got from him about this, it's like he feels he was meant to write the Dark Eldar codex. Almost as if the Eldar one is an unfinished tale without their dark reflection being done justice. So, the good news is. Dark Eldar players really do have someone batting for them in the studio and quite heavily too. Secondly, from what Robin Cruddace was suggesting, if you want GW to hear your opinions, don't whine on internet forums or write emails. Games Workshop pays attention to actual physical letters sent to them via the postie. If you want to be heard, that's how you do it.

And, the bad news. From Phil Kelly's talk, the Dark Eldar codex is not written yet.

That kind of fits in with all the Dark Eldar stuff then, doesnt it? Either that, or Phil Kelly was fibbing a little bit and had just recently got the gig, wanted to talk about it but didn't want to spoil.

In any case, it sounds good for Dark Eldar fans. It also makes sense when you add in the other sly references in Phil Kelly's recent books that he's been thinking a lot about it - for example, the second Dark Eldar city in Planetstrike.

AgeOfEgos wrote:
Best GW Game Designer: Check

Wait isn't this the guy that wrote the fantasy demon codex?...

GMMStudios wrote:

Wait isn't this the guy that wrote the fantasy demon codex?...

Oh dear...

Not a DE player but i'm looking forward to seeing the new stuff when/if it hits.

Looking forward to the new Necron codex with a certain sense of trepidation.....wil it be good AND keep the necrons falvour intact?

Someone mentioned renegade guardsmen........why woudl they need a specific codex? Can't youjust use the IG codex and chuck in some chaos spiky bits and icons?

Well I think this is a bit make or break for the Dark Eldar, if they don't perform well now, I don't think they ever will.

As far as Black Templars getting done, it does seem a bit too soon. It has its merits for being done and probably is alot easier for GW to manage quickly. The problem I see likely is one that one of the GW designers brought up. They've been working on alot of the easier codices to update and as the move into the more involved ones its going to be harder and slower to produce them. I think this may go into why all the marine codices are coming out so soon to each other, even if they were started on at the same time as another army they're done and ready to ship before the others.

Black Templars and Grey Knights... then in GW's eyes all the marine codices will have been updated for this edition, and we have some mix of Sisters of Battle, Tau, and Necrons. The simple fact is some army has to be last, so I don't think people should complain. Coming up to the end of the line if we assume GW doesn't throw a curve ball by starting a new edition or redoing an already redone codex or creating a new codex by end of next year everything currently supported will be done. That would open up 2013 for either a new edition or some new codices, like delving into the Chaos god specific legions. Alternatively Chaos specific Legions could always sneak in to fill the power armor shaped hole in GWs 2012 queue.

Hahaha Wieliczka salt mine, 30min. from my home

New Dark Eldar And Templars. YES! Me Templars are w8ing for new stuff! For the emperor! Burn the heretic, crusify them all!

GMMStudios wrote:

AgeOfEgos wrote:
Best GW Game Designer: Check

Wait isn't this the guy that wrote the fantasy demon codex?...

No, this is, seemingly, by Phil Kelly.
Mat Ward wrote the DoC Book IIRC.

Although realistically,of course, the whole design studio get to chip in ideas and thoughts.

Oh my bad.

But I was going to say, the Eldar codex was nice, but the demon codex writer (fantasy) should be canned...

Farmer wrote:

GMMStudios wrote:

Wait isn't this the guy that wrote the fantasy demon codex?...

Oh dear...

Mat Ward wrote Daemons of Chaos.

In all this talk about black tempars being after DE,what happened to my plastic stormtroopers? i need a second company 100 models is not enough. WH,DH, even xenos . Im glad DE are redone but us IQ people need a new book next.

I'm looking forward to seeing what they do with the new Dark Eldar codex. I've been quite impressed with 5th edition so far. I've been away from the hobby for the last 5 years and I like some of the new elites that have been added and the volume of plastic models is great to see. The one downside I have seen recently is the propensity toward assault units, it seems everyone wants to get up in everyone else's grill. Dark Eldar Wyches will be the obvious candidates for this.

I'd like to see a new Dreadnaught / Wraithlord equivalent as the Talos(?) was a bit over the top for my tastes. I'd love to see a Wraithlod with sharp curves similar to the old Raiders. I suppose I should get round to painting my old incubi figures that have sat in an army box for 5 years...

GMMStudios wrote:Oh my bad.

But I was going to say, the Eldar codex was nice, but the demon codex writer (fantasy) should be canned...

I *think* Phil Kelly wrote the 40k Daemon codex, which is probably where the confusion stems from.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDPi3x0uXds



That sort of dispalys my anger at the amount of marines being updated ¬¬

With the marines almost all done they can start on the 6th edition.

I am excited to see what happens for DE. Hopefully they will be less of the S&M army of 40k and more of the twisted pain driven...OK, nevermind.

What I would like to see for DE is more model options, or kits for more variety per model...like three versions of a speeder bike in one box.

rds8n says the book's at the printer, and someone else says it isn't even written yet...


Huh?

The red one I trust.

At this point grey knights are the only marine army id support updating.

Good to hear dark eldar are whats next though. They should either be squatted or completely redone. This twilight though is bad for business.

Alpharius wrote: and someone else says it isn't even written yet...


Huh?

If that was referring to me, I was possibly a bit too subtle about the 'In September' part.

It was a quote from something I said last September, as in, September 2009.

Alpharius wrote:rds8n says the book's at the printer, and someone else says it isn't even written yet...
Huh?

BrookM wrote:The red one I trust.

I also trust reds8n more than "In September Compel", his rumours always seem so dated

reds8n is correct.

Nightwatch wrote:

gil gerard wrote:maybe some updated Tau models

What needs updating besides Kroot Hounds?
If they come out with new rules, then new models apply, otherwise, Tau are doing pretty good models-wise. More plastic guard would be fun, but perhaps unnecessary.

How about some strength 8 long range firepower? The ability to instakill without being 12" away.

hyperviper6 wrote:

Nightwatch wrote:

gil gerard wrote:maybe some updated Tau models

What needs updating besides Kroot Hounds?
If they come out with new rules, then new models apply, otherwise, Tau are doing pretty good models-wise. More plastic guard would be fun, but perhaps unnecessary.

How about some strength 8 long range firepower? The ability to instakill without being 12" away.

I know, really! Every time I see railguns on the other side of the table I feel bad that my opponents don't have enough long range firepower.

LEEQAEX wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDPi3x0uXds



That sort of dispalys my anger at the amount of marines being updated ¬¬

ROFL!

Best thing ive seen all week.

jp400 wrote:

LEEQAEX wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDPi3x0uXds



That sort of dispalys my anger at the amount of marines being updated ¬¬

ROFL!

Best thing ive seen all week.

Agreed.

Albatross wrote:Yeah, I thought so - they easily have the best voices out of any of the races (with the possible exception of Orks). 'SPEED, BRINGER OF DEATH!' and 'is it time to loot and kill?' It's like they're all on crack or something. Brilliant.

Drugged-up space perverts.

I was gutted that they didn't have pirate voices, YMMV.

My avatar will NEVER be wrong..

But really Red seems to be the man who knows so its nice to hear him say it..

Also no chaos.. just because time flows different in the warp.. bah. Chaos and GK should come out close together at least..

Joint codex, angels of death style. Make rules for playing chaos grey knights, or mercenary space marines the inquisition has hired to do certain tasks.

the only logical army book would be space skaven or space slann

The dark angels need an update desperately too. although there are MORE deserving NON Space Marine armys that need it more. But seriously the DA are now the crappiest codex for all the marines

I grappled the shoggoth wrote:Joint codex, angels of death style. Make rules for playing chaos grey knights, or mercenary space marines the inquisition has hired to do certain tasks.

My fluff! It hurts!
The only codex I wish they did like Codex: Angels of Death would basically be a new version of Codex: Angels of Death. Then again, they made Blood Angels different enough from codex Marines so vv

And there are Marines the Inquisition uses - they're called the Deathwatch. Sternguard stole their whole gimmick though.

Gargskull wrote:Lots of whining as per usual but I doubt the BT redo if indeed one is coming will be until next year and after Necrons at the least. GK seem to be the only power armour we'll see this year.

This. We've had far more indication for GK than BT. GW seems to be updating all the marine armies by seniority. Space Wolves (2000), Blood Angels (1999, but had some half-assed updates), GK (2003), BT (2005), and DA (2007).

So I expect Dark Eldar, Grey Knights, Necrons, Black Templar, Eldar, Dark Angels . . . then I guess Tau, Ecclessiarchy, and Orks.

I put Eldar before Tau because with the release of the Dark Eldar and the Nightspinner in WD, their book will feel quite dated.

Since the OP's source about Dark Eldar is wrong, his source about Black Templars is probably wrong too.

Farmer wrote:

jp400 wrote:

LEEQAEX wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDPi3x0uXds



That sort of dispalys my anger at the amount of marines being updated ¬¬

ROFL!

Best thing ive seen all week.

Agreed.

I was considering which forum to put it on .I thin kI chose right ;D . Soon as I saw it I thought must put on dakka .

LEEQAEX wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDPi3x0uXds



That sort of dispalys my anger at the amount of marines being updated ¬¬

"You're army won't be..."

And then I closed the tab. Jesus.

Hopefully by the end of the year, SW will get plastic wolves and plastic thunderwolves kits. That is my wishlist so far.

If there is a codex SoB or Codex Grey Knights instead of Witch Hunters/Deamon Hunters then about 2250pts worth of my models become obselete. Also IQ is still all metal but when they come in plastic (IF) they're probably gonna be the same price. Has anyone else noticed the steady rising of plastics?
How is £25 for 10 greatswords justifyable?

VikingScott wrote:If there is a codex SoB or Codex Grey Knights instead of Witch Hunters/Deamon Hunters then about 2250pts worth of my models become obselete. Also IQ is still all metal but when they come in plastic (IF) they're probably gonna be the same price. Has anyone else noticed the steady rising of plastics?
How is £25 for 10 greatswords justifyable?

I know , plus metal is always so much nicer in my opinion. I am going to ahve to get more Inqusition before they all turn to plastics. I have some metal grey knights and sisters of Batlle . They are such nice minis

I might get some metal Sobs before the change but only if my cashflow increases!!
Seriously now £20 for 10 isn't bad when 10 PLASTIC spess mahrenns is £18.
I know i've got OTT with my Inquisitors.... they each have retinues, some have transports but only about 250 of those points are stormtroopers. My favourite Inquisitor lord hopefully should be getting a custom valkiare to fly around in!

Theres just something really cool about Inquisition . I think its the armour , or the fact they like to burn people. " You dont like the guy on the throne " " Lets burn him Phil "

Nobody messes with Inquisition.
They get the best lines also
"A plea of innocence in my court is guilty of wasting my time" Epic.
And doesnt everyone looovvvvee fire and burning people?
And even if you defeat thier army, thier just gonna declace extermatius on the planet.

VikingScott wrote:Nobody messes with Inquisition.
They get the best lines also
"A plea of innocence in my court is guilty of wasting my time" Epic.
And doesnt everyone looovvvvee fire and burning people?
And even if you defeat thier army, thier just gonna declace extermatius on the planet.

mhmmmmm We lost .. oooo well ... BURN THIER PLANET !!!!

Or my Chaos Variant.

You lost. And your fleet belongs to us now .

You guys are implying the inquisition is unstoppable in space.

Voronesh wrote:Or my Chaos Variant.

You lost. And your fleet belongs to us now .

hehe gotta also love chaos .Who needs codex update ¬¬ chaos marines , the word marines is in there you know GW we need love too . :(

Ostrakon wrote:

"You're army won't be..."

And then I closed the tab. Jesus.

I hear you on that one. I think I'm literally allergic to that level of stupid.

I grappled the shoggoth wrote:You guys are implying the inquisition is unstoppable in space.

No i think we're just two Inquisition diehards. I mean i have 2000pts worth of Inquisitor lords and Inquisitors.

Oh noes, the grammar nazis are nerd raging over a you're. Its possible the creator included that in the video for the purposes of trolling somebody

I grappled the shoggoth wrote:Make rules for playing chaos grey knights, or mercenary space marines the inquisition has hired to do certain tasks.

Chaos Grey Knights get a joint Codex with Slaanesh Sororitas, Chaos Tau and female Space marines
In the first wave you get a plastic conversion sprue with masses of naked boobs and tentacles
Satisfied?

GMMStudios wrote:

AgeOfEgos wrote:
Best GW Game Designer: Check

Wait isn't this the guy that wrote the fantasy demon codex?...

Nah, I think as someone else pointed out, another author wrote DoC for Fantasy. Regardless, that system is so farked up I can't hold anyone accountable for army book design it. It's like being told to design a low riding Porsche for a hole infested cow path. Just doesn't fit....

A Phil Kelly codex with Jes Goodwin sculpts should make any DE player excited.

OK, stop insulting each other, stay on topic, or, you know...

Anything with Jes Goodwin's touch of magic will definitely be amazing enough for me to seriously consider it. His ancient Sisters/Eldar sculpts still hold up very well side-by-side with the new stuff (and IMO, his proportions are more realistic).

Phil Kelly is the guy who wrote Space Wolves, so there's potential there. The DoC book was written by Matt Ward, the same guy who wrote the new Blood Angels book.

Whos up for the ritual burning of mat ward and blood angels codexes?

Terminus wrote:

Phil Kelly is the guy who wrote Space Wolves, so there's potential there. The DoC book was written by Matt Ward, the same guy who wrote the new Blood Angels book.

He also wrote the 4th Ed. Eldar and Ork books.

I think Matt did good with the BA dex.

Although no Eldar book would be as good with anybody but Phil.

The worst part is I have been playing Templar for a long time, GK since they came out, DE were my second army back in 3rd Ed.....if they actually update all these codex's by April I will be sooooo friggen broke heheh.. But in all cases its about time for it. I would look forward to an Eldar buff as well. Points wise I am struggling to compete with em but I will focus on DE once they come out.

can some one explain how would you build a seperate sob or gk codex, it would be very incomplete without the extra inquisitor stuff, maybe one big huge codex inquisition would be awsome! it should be like an iquisitors handbook but is really the secret codex to them all! well enough of my dreaming, i have an opinion.

i hate the chaos space marine codex even if ts got ap3 guns! i wanted plasma guns too! csm fluff had died that sad day codex csm 5th edition released...

i dont really care about new sm variants just as long as my ig can kill them

de have got to be the best game wining army with its cheese, but its unappreciated, so maybe the new dex will make them less scary. just maybe



ALSO is it possible we could all gather up ideas on what gw has absolutely F@$%ed and send a angry letter to Nottingham telling them how anoyed we are with some stuff and what would make every thing peachy

i think this idea is amazingly stupidly smart!

A big IQ codex would be difficult to balance, and would have either a big dearth of models (neither the GK nor the Sisters have a lot of variety), or full of random crap units as they try to flesh out 2.5 armies in a single book (they have trouble with just 1).

I'm all for separate, fully-fleshed out Grey Knights (lots of teleporting and psychic powers? Imperial grav tanks and jetbikes?), and Ecclessiarchy books (Sororitas, with all the Ecclessiarchy stuff made not to suck).

As for the Inquisitor (and his retinue, daemonhosts and assassins), they should be a mini-book and be able to be allied to any Imperial army ala old-school Heroes of the Imperium.

physcosamatic wrote:can some one explain how would you build a seperate sob or gk codex...

That's because you're only thinking about it within the confines of how both armies exist now. New units would work wonders.

physcosamatic wrote:can some one explain how would you build a seperate sob or gk codex, it would be very incomplete without the extra inquisitor stuff,

Every single Sisters list that existed before Codex: Witchhunters not only disagrees with you, but also proves you dead wrong.

Somehow I dont think having witch hunter players BEFORE the codex proves anything

People still play squats, kroot and who knows someone might even play space skaven.. The point is they had very very very few units and not much character to them before witch hunters

Im assuming melissa from BOLS is gonna start spamming this thread soon since the SoB battle cry has been called

Kirasu wrote:
Im assuming melissa from BOLS is gonna start spamming this thread soon since the SoB battle cry has been called

Melissia is on B&C as well, and back when I still spent time there she was one of the most insufferable posters around. Regardless, I'd be happy to see plastic Inquisition forces, nomatter the ordos. Of course, if they came out with plastic Arbites I could do a carapace vets army...

"I AM THE LAW!"

I'll be happy to spam in melissia's place .

In all seriousness, We had 2 codecies before WH...The only thing we really lacked was ranged weaponry, and true CC.

Codex: WH addressed both of those, giving us the best tank in 40k, the exorcist, as well as beautiful CC units with horrible rules. Repentia, arco-flagellents, and Penitent Engines.
None of which are inquisitorial units by the way.

Give us Zealots/ Frateris Militia as troops, add in preachers confessors etc. better rules for the CC units, and add a few more Adepta Sororitas units and specializations and there you go.

We do not need your inquisition in our Sisters of Battle/Ecclesiarchy Codex.

We do need lower cost rhinos and immolators (that allow two models to fire out of the upper hatch like every other rhino in the game.), Repressors. Sarissa's equipped on all celestians, and other lovely changes.

And as for the misguided statement that we had no character before C: WH...We were more characterful in many ways, Uriah Jacobs was fully fluffed out in crazy Preacherness, and we had the Easy Bake oven of 2X heavy flamers in an immolator, Retributors never had to dismount move 12" and BURN.

The immolator used to fire two templates for a weaker normal flamer strength, or a single focused flame for heavy flamer strength...the flame...the burning...it was wonderful *tear*

I grappled the shoggoth wrote:Oh noes, the grammar nazis are nerd raging over a you're. Its possible the creator included that in the video for the purposes of trolling somebody

Nah, I'm going with good old ignorance.

VikingScott wrote:Whos up for the ritual burning of mat ward and blood angels codexes?

This made me lol. I'm totally making this my sig

I just want the Dark Eldar book to come out without black text saying "Third Edition" over a white embossing.

Platuan4th wrote:Every single Sisters list that existed before Codex: Witchhunters not only disagrees with you, but also proves you dead wrong.

Every single Witch Hunter player that doesn't own any Sisters doesn't care.

We don't want to lose our armies.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Platuan4th wrote:Every single Sisters list that existed before Codex: Witchhunters not only disagrees with you, but also proves you dead wrong.

Every single Witch Hunter player that doesn't own any Sisters doesn't care.

We don't want to lose our armies.

Yeah, all 5 of ya!

I'm not saying that the Inq units shouldn't be in the book, just that his theory that Sisters are a lacking list without them is wrong.

H.B.M.C. wrote:
Witch Hunter player that doesn't own any Sisters

There's a difference between "fluffy Inquisition army general" and "monstrously obstinate player desperate to find something to complain about."

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Platuan4th wrote:Every single Sisters list that existed before Codex: Witchhunters not only disagrees with you, but also proves you dead wrong.

Every single Witch Hunter player that doesn't own any Sisters doesn't care.

We don't want to lose our armies.

"Losing your army"? What army? Who the hell honestly plays Witch Hunters? Everything in that list that is not Sororitas sucks eggs. Without the Sisters, the Witch Hunters don't really have much else. The only non-Sororitas units in the army are the Inquisitors, Daemonhosts, Assassins, and Arbites. So what are you really losing? A couple of squads of IG stormtroopers, some shoddy transports, and sucky/overpriced HQ and Elites. Yeah, you're REALLY losing a lot.

And in any case, I am absolutely certain Inquisitors and their henchmen won't be phased out (well, maybe the Arbites will be). They don't even need to publish a book, they could just stick the rules in White Dwarf and online as they are doing with Spearhead. It updates the Inquisitors and Assassins, and GW doesn't have to spend any money to print and market a new codex, nor design and market new kits to drive sales.

Are there any hard facts that DE are out this year???

I hope so, but at the same time, hope not.

I've been waiting for the update for so freeking long, but at the same time I want a new army now :(

radiohazard wrote:Are there any hard facts that DE are out this year???

I hope so, but at the same time, hope not.

I've been waiting for the update for so freeking long, but at the same time I want a new army now :(

Yes. It's as though we've forgotten what life is like without needing a Codex update and we're afraid to face that unknown future.

Brother SRM wrote:

Kirasu wrote:
Im assuming melissa from BOLS is gonna start spamming this thread soon since the SoB battle cry has been called

Melissia is on B&C as well, and back when I still spent time there she was one of the most insufferable posters around. Regardless, I'd be happy to see plastic Inquisition forces, nomatter the ordos. Of course, if they came out with plastic Arbites I could do a carapace vets army...

"I AM THE LAW!"

Check dakkas army profiles.
someone has done 1 of these....

candy.man wrote:

VikingScott wrote:Whos up for the ritual burning of mat ward and blood angels codexes?

This made me lol. I'm totally making this my sig

Nice! glad i influenced someone. Could you at least let people know it was that crazy VikingScott though?

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Platuan4th wrote:Every single Sisters list that existed before Codex: Witchhunters not only disagrees with you, but also proves you dead wrong.

Every single Witch Hunter player that doesn't own any Sisters doesn't care.

We don't want to lose our armies.

I play Witch Hunters without sisters.
Mostly as allies and custom scenarios now though.
1000pts of standerd missions force organisation chart filling goodness that when i used to use it owned a freind csm army (admittedly i think it was just me capitalising on his faults but a win is a win)

Archonate wrote:

radiohazard wrote:Are there any hard facts that DE are out this year???

I hope so, but at the same time, hope not.

I've been waiting for the update for so freeking long, but at the same time I want a new army now :(

Yes. It's as though we've forgotten what life is like without needing a Codex update and we're afraid to face that unknown future.

Well if there is balls to walls hard evidence - where is it???

At this point, where we could be so close to getting a new codex, I wouldn't mind if we took a nerf here and there. I mean ffs, we will have an uptodate ruleset.

Ostrakon wrote:

Bite me.

If you're got nothing better than image macros, then shove off.

Terminus wrote:What army? Who the hell honestly plays Witch Hunters?

Well I do. It would appear VikingScott does too.

Terminus wrote:Everything in that list that is not Sororitas sucks eggs.

And? So? But? Therefore?

What makes you think I have a Witch Hunter/Daemonhunter army for 'power'. Some people don't give two gaks about how 'powerful' a list is. I'm one of 'em. Anyone who plays straight WH or DH is sure to be one of them as well.

Terminus wrote:Without the Sisters, the Witch Hunters don't really have much else.

I do just fine with my squads of Storm Troopers in Valks, my few units of Arbites, Daemonhosts, Archo-Flagellants and the multiple units of Inquisitors I take in every game.

Terminus wrote:Yeah, you're REALLY losing a lot.

Well if they remove Inquisitors, IST's, Daemonhosts, Arbites, and Achos then yeah, I lose my entire army. That's a lot ($$$ wise especially). Considering I have a few thousand points worth.

Terminus wrote:And in any case, I am absolutely certain Inquisitors and their henchmen won't be phased out

No, they'll be Jervised. Inquisitor becomes a single choice - the Ordo means nothing - with a single list of weapon upgrades, a special rule or two, and a 'Generic Henchman' entry which you can give weapons from another generic list.

Yay.




I'm not the kind of person who doesn't want Sisters or GKs to have their own book, or be expanded upon, or to be a 'real' army. I just don't want it at the expense of my army.

1) I also have Inquisition Armies without Sisters and without Grey Knights.

2) STOP with the personal attacks. And insults. And overall general rudeness.

Second, and FINAL, warning now.

Nitpicking here.

Stormtrooper in valks?

Wasnt in my Witchhunter Codex.

And basically playing a niche in a niche codex is opening yourself up to a whole can of worms.

In a tournament. Which you probably wont attend with that army.

If you play with friends, who cares if you use a dated codex?

I mean seriously they cant complain that its OP. So i dont see the issue.

My Inquisition is converted and i love the unsual stuff i can make work well on an inquisitor. I dont play a pure IQ now just to win. I play to for the laughs.
Recently i played a 1000pt game against that tzentch deamon lord thing thats 999pts with 1000pts of IQ. Didnt win but survived and stripped 2 wounds from 9, lost about 150pts in total.
Not everyone is a diehard win at all costs player.

And also stormtroopers in valks? really? sopme update i must have missed.

Voronesh wrote:
And basically playing a niche in a niche codex is opening yourself up to a whole can of worms.
.

Indeed, but surely people can see how a player with such a force would prefer their options, however limited it might be, to remain in the codex.

And yes, I'm sure such players are quite familiar and capable of "counts as" and the like.

As for the Valks. and the like..IMperial Armour books people !

Yes sure.

But less than 10% of the community crying foul that their army might get invalidated. Im saying might, cause were not part of the dev team, and dont know for sure what the new stuff contains.

I understand them (Thats why my Angels of Absolution use the current SM codex after my long hiatus), but its still tiring to have the same argument every time something new comes out.

Platuan4th wrote:

physcosamatic wrote:can some one explain how would you build a seperate sob or gk codex, it would be very incomplete without the extra inquisitor stuff,

Every single Sisters list that existed before Codex: Witchhunters not only disagrees with you, but also proves you dead wrong.

Yep, SoB 2ed codex was pure SoB, without Inquisition.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Purge the Heretic wrote: giving us the best tank in 40k, the exorcist,

Are you serious? :S

For its cost its decent.
only downside is the slight randomness of the d6 shots
S8 AP1 exellent against most things

VikingScott wrote:For its cost its decent.
only downside is the slight randomness of the d6 shots
S8 AP1 exellent against most things

Don't get me wrong, as you can see in my siggie I play SoB too. My army is so small at this time that it's only infantry, I haven't bought still even a rhino or a Inmolator for them. In the future I will surely include one of two Exorcists (or three+ if it gets to Apocalypse size). But... the best tank in the game? I think there are many rivals for that title

physcosamatic wrote:can some one explain how would you build a seperate sob or gk codex, it would be very incomplete without the extra inquisitor stuff, maybe one big huge codex inquisition would be awsome! it should be like an iquisitors handbook but is really the secret codex to them all! well enough of my dreaming, i have an opinion.

The rumor that came out from the designer is that the Inquisition will be toned down not removed.

If you assume the books will not include allies, Daemonhunters only have a couple of non-GK units anyways, though the Witchhunters have more non-SoB units. The down played Inquisition units, are likely to be retained in the codices and see their rules and stats adjusted. WH: Inquisitor Lord, Inquisitor, Assassins, Cult Assassin, Archo-Flagelants, Storm Troopers, with the more sister oriented penitent engine and Sister Repentia... DH: same as WH but with Daemonhost instead of Archo-Flagelants, without the two sister-centric ones.

Inquisitor as an elite choice could very easily be dropped or made into 1-3 model per choice, doesn't fill a FOC slot, upgrade a squad character. Lord Inquisitors will likely be re-written into a format more similar to the IG CCS, with a more fixed number of models, and effects that are more broadly applicable to the army, with the Lord getting locked in stats. Assassins could stand to recieve a rule adjustment to make them more consistent with the current edition. Storm troopers, brought in line with the IG codex, with a unique "inquisitorial guard" mission or similar locked in.

I kinda rambled there. I think the main thing is that GW will add only SoB and GK units to the books. SoB could get Valks, excorcist and penitent engine variants, and GK get: Storm Ravens, (jet)bike unit, Librarian Dreads, Chaplains etc.... and all that would overwhelmingly be slanted towards the respective chamber militant and not necessarily the "inquisition".

Voronesh wrote:But less than 10% of the community crying foul that their army might get invalidated.

What we're saying is that the expansion of GKs/SoBs does not require the invalidation of Inquisitorial armies. The two can co-exist (just as they have done for 8 years since the DH book came out?).

Yes, we're a minority. I know that. But a revision of the Codex doesn't require the minority elements to be removed. Hell, it's a golden opportunity to expand upon them!

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Voronesh wrote:But less than 10% of the community crying foul that their army might get invalidated.

What we're saying is that the expansion of GKs/SoBs does not require the invalidation of Inquisitorial armies. The two can co-exist (just as they have done for 8 years since the DH book came out?).

Yes, we're a minority. I know that. But a revision of the Codex doesn't require the minority elements to be removed. Hell, it's a golden opportunity to expand upon them!

Exactly!

I'm fairly sure that the majority of the "Get over it! Stop crying and moaning!" crowd don't field the army in danger of going away too...

Alpharius wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Voronesh wrote:But less than 10% of the community crying foul that their army might get invalidated.

What we're saying is that the expansion of GKs/SoBs does not require the invalidation of Inquisitorial armies. The two can co-exist (just as they have done for 8 years since the DH book came out?).

Yes, we're a minority. I know that. But a revision of the Codex doesn't require the minority elements to be removed. Hell, it's a golden opportunity to expand upon them!

Exactly!

I'm fairly sure that the majority of the "Get over it! Stop crying and moaning!" crowd don't field the army in danger of going away too...

+1
You would all agree if you all also played the IQ like us fanaticly loyal to them

I bought some Kasrkin when I was startig my army to be able to field up to three different forces. Full Codex: Witchhunters list, SoB list, and Inquisition list. I wouldn't like to see the Inquisition itself squatted.

However I would like a SoB indenpendant codex if that means more options for SoB, and also means another codex for Inquisition with again, more options.

But I think it's more probably that they will develope combined codex as they are now in Codex: Witchhunters and Codex: Daemonhunters.

Alpharius wrote:I'm fairly sure that the majority of the "Get over it! Stop crying and moaning!" crowd don't field the army in danger of going away too...

I didn't protest when they took away the squats, because I didn't play them.
I didn't protest when they took away the genestealer cult, because I didn't play them.
I didn't protest when they took away the inquisition....

dietrich wrote:

Alpharius wrote:I'm fairly sure that the majority of the "Get over it! Stop crying and moaning!" crowd don't field the army in danger of going away too...

I didn't protest when they took away the squats, because I didn't play them.
I didn't protest when they took away the genestealer cult, because I didn't play them.
I didn't protest when they took away the inquisition....

I had that quote in mind too when I was typing my reply!

I wanted to avoid the reference that should be avoided though.

Especially only 6 pages in and all that...

Arco Flagellants are an ecclesiarchy unit as well as the repentia and penitents...dunno why people forget this.

We will most likely see Inquisitor characters, I'm not positive an elite inquisitor or inquisitor lord with retinue will remain in these codecies.

Your Fluffy inquisition army may be relegated to friendly and apocolypse games.

Sorry...but to be fair you invaded my sisters codex without my permission.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Terminus wrote:Without the Sisters, the Witch Hunters don't really have much else.

I do just fine with my squads of Storm Troopers in Valks, my few units of Arbites, Daemonhosts, Archo-Flagellants and the multiple units of Inquisitors I take in every game.

Well, almost all of those things are not Inquisitorial forces.

- Arbites are local cops that can be pressed into service like IG or Marines (and frankly, I agree with their removal from the game, because they are used locally to capture psykers/destroy cults/etc., not taken off-world to fight Daemons and Ork incursions).
- Arco-Flagellants are an Ecclessiarchy monstrosity.
- Death Cultists are also Ecclessiarchy.
- Valkyries are not a legal choice unless you're using Forge World.
- While the DH/WH books made Inquisitors required to field assassins, pretty much every major branch/ordo/office/whatever of the Imperium utilizes them at one point or another.
- Hell, even the Storm Troopers are just more inducted/temporary units borrowed from elite Guard regiments.

So all you have is the Inquisitor himself and Daemonhosts. Again, you're not losing much of anything.

Terminus wrote:

- Death Cultists are also Ecclessiarchy.

Nope. Death Cult assassins aren't owned by the Ecclessiarchy, they can be found in the service of Inquisitors, Rogue Trades, Planetary governors and other noteworthies. It's entirely possible a high ranking Church rep might own one or two but they are not the provision of the Church.

The inquisition does maintain full garrisons of storm-troopers or elite imperial guard regiments that are in permanent service to the inquisition.

Gentlemen, gentlemen, fluff can be rewritten any time to fit in new stuff or rearange the old. *putsawaythenidcodexandsimlesmanic*

Some are missing the point and getting too stuck on minor details. Most of the units in the codices are not "Inquisitorial" units. The ecclesiarichal units are one thing, the chamber militants are another, the inquisitor and friends are a third.

The main point is, Inquisitors are not gone, they just aren't going to be at the center of the codices any more. Storm Troopers, Inquisitors and lords, and assassins will likely be changed, allies dropped. I don't see the rest included in the toning down.

There's no reason the Inq bits can't be separated out of the SoB list and retained as Allies from the Inq / GK book.

Restoring things to the status quo post-DH, pre-WH.

JohnHwangDD wrote:There's no reason the Inq bits can't be separated out of the SoB list and retained as Allies from the Inq / GK book.

Restoring things to the status quo post-DH, pre-WH.

True enough, but IF the most of what we have now is left out, I don't see us ever getting it back...

I wouldn't be shocked to see Stormtroopers make into the GK book. I could see a solid codex concept being built around Storms in Valks and GK in Stormravens, etc. as a kind of elite, rapid-insertion force. I understand that's not what you guys are asking for, however.

There were some sketchy rumors on Warseer semi-recently about the possibility of some kind of allies book that would cover Inquistion and presumably other units like Assassins, etc. too. It's probably a pipe dream, but the idea of an allies supplement that extends to many armies (LatD for Chaos? GCults for Tyranids?) has huge potential, IMO. Guess we can dream...

Alpharius wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:There's no reason the Inq bits can't be separated out of the SoB list and retained as Allies from the Inq / GK book.

Restoring things to the status quo post-DH, pre-WH.

True enough, but IF the most of what we have now is left out, I don't see us ever getting it back...

At worst, things sit out for an edition (e.g. Harlequins, Griffons, Exterminators).

Realistically, DH / Inq will retain anything not kept in SoB: Inqs, IAs, DCA, Storms. It's a short list.

Rumours say that both GK and SoB get less or no Inquisition units but instead gain more other troops specific to them.

In the case of Grey Knights is the emphasis on being elite Space Marines, with Storm Raven and maybe even a jetbike unit (and I think more psionics and anti-Chaos things as well).

In the case of SoB it will be more Ecclesiarchy units. Repentia, Penitent Engine and Archo-flaggelants are clearly ecclesia units, missing are redemptionists (only WD rules) as cheap cannon fodder plus whatever they can come up with.

So both armies will gain (!) options and get their own distinctive character.

Great so in terms of rules the inquisitors themselves get squatted then.
That seems to be the general opinion

That's bad news about Inquisitors if it's true. They were one of my favorite parts of 40k.

The Power Cosmic wrote:That's bad news about Inquisitors if it's true. They were one of my favorite parts of 40k.

Same.
I have (using it all) 2250pts of it.

The inclusion of the Inquisition added a great level of Heroically Gothic Fanaticism to the game.

It really opened up the possibility of alternate army options. I never would have collected Imperial Guard or Sisters of Battle if it weren't for the Inquisitorial aspect.

Heck, their popularity spawned more novels and even an RPG !! I'd hate to see the Inquisitors abandoned ... it would make the 40K universe so much less interesting, IMO.

This would be a monstrously stupid thing for GW to do.

With the relative success of Dark Heresy and Rogue Trader, it would make even less sense...

Alpharius wrote:This would be a monstrously stupid thing for GW to do.

With the relative success of Dark Heresy and Rogue Trader, it would make even less sense...

So it's practically guaranteed to happen.

Yeah, let's not forget who we're talking about here.

ironic but true

oaktree wrote:

Maybe because half the rules in the Black Templar codex have no efect because of the new rulebook

I am sad if they get redone i won't me able to field my terminator chaplin with lightning claws

Could be worse, 3/4 of the units in the Tau codex are worthless. The good news is that I have no reason to rush out and buy the following:
1) Ethereal
2) Krootox
3) Vespid
4) Skyray (unless I need another hammerhead)
5) Sniper drone team
6) Stealth suits (yes, I know people will argue with me here, that's fine, I still think they cost too much and suck).

We don't have a general opinion about the new GK Codex, no news, no facts. Only a rumour from several sides that there will be a Grey Knight Codex in the near future. Only once source said that the emphasis will shift from Inquisition, not ruling out that Inquisition might get their own rules set/ supplement.

Can we wait with the whining and doomsaying until we have something concrete to talk about?

So is DE all but formally confirmed next or what?

I dunno if I'll end up playing them, but I think I'll probably pick up a codex and a few kits either way. Voting with my wallet and all that.

I really think that we as players need to stand up and show that long-forgotten xeno codices don't need to be high-risk ventures.

Kroothawk wrote:We don't have a general opinion about the new GK Codex, no news, no facts. Only a rumour from several sides that there will be a Grey Knight Codex in the near future. Only once source said that the emphasis will shift from Inquisition, not ruling out that Inquisition might get their own rules set/ supplement.

Can we wait with the whining and doomsaying until we have something concrete to talk about?

This is Dakka young one, you will learn in time.

Kroothawk wrote:We don't have a general opinion about the new GK Codex, no news, no facts. Only a rumour from several sides that there will be a Grey Knight Codex in the near future. Only once source said that the emphasis will shift from Inquisition, not ruling out that Inquisition might get their own rules set/ supplement.

Can we wait with the whining and doomsaying until we have something concrete to talk about?

You must be new here?

Edit: Curses. Ninja snark'd.

HBMC you poor bastard how many armies have you had invalidated now..

I think your name stands for Horrible Black Magic Curse.

HBMC i dont want Inquisitors to be squatted.

I like killing them. Its part of my fluff for my Chaos Army. And my Angels of Absolution like to make em vanish mysteriously too.

Now what i was getting it was your comment sounded a bit too much like those DE players that do not want a new codex because they might lose the one list they like to play.

More against that sentiment than anything else.

Inquisitors might get a temporary squat. If you are so loyal about Inquisition then stick it out.

GW wont stop selling a product line that they got the perfect excuse for keeping as metal. And that should sell as hot stuff when allowed in a fluffy manner. At worst i except you to hang in balance for a short while, before the Inquisition comes back.

I could see stuff happening like incorporated IG, and Special Space Marines showing up. Squatting the allies system in both directions. Basically you get IG/Space Marines in a IQ list, but ruleswise they are part of the codex and not bought from somewhere else.

Maybe they even rewrite the fluff, so you get Deathwatch for alienhunters, IQ GK Terminators for Daemonhunters, and IQ Celestias for Witchhunters.

Maybe. Thinking along the lines of pimped up elites from another codex . One can dream?

I always wanted the deathwatch rules but could never ffind them.

DOOOOM!!!!

Digressing for a moment:

Exorcist, point for point the most effective unit VS infantry or armor IMO. It handles both just as well, a little unreliably perhaps, but it averages 3 shots at str 8 ap1 per turn.
With the possibility of 6.

Target priority becomes the issue, do you take out the unit of terminators or the dakka pred.

Back to the topic:

Grey Knight codex...not an inquisition codex, multiple sources from multiple forums, the most recognizable names being Harry, Brimstone (before his passing), and a more recent rumormonger, but one who had a hand in early descriptions of Sanguinary guard, Daemon Prince Adralmalech (sp?).

As for solid news/rumors as to specifics:

Stormraven WILL be in the codex.

"what if they all wear artificer armor?" -Harry, also "I still don't know which of these two (DE or GK) codexes is next."

Jump pack GK's.

I think the next 40K codecise to come out will be:

Dark Eldar
Inquisitor
Necron
Black Templars
Eldar
6th Ed Rulebook
Tau Empire

I'm not sure so don't quote me on this. This may be in the wrong order and there could possibly be some more inbetween. Any new codecise released between the end of this year and the release of the 6th Ed rulebook will not make much sense in 5th Ed rules but will when the 6th Ed rules come out. Again, not sure about that but it's what I think will happen.

Terminus wrote:Well, almost all of those things are not Inquisitorial forces.

If you say so.

Terminus wrote:Arbites are local cops that can be pressed into service like IG or Marines (and frankly, I agree with their removal from the game, because they are used locally to capture psykers/destroy cults/etc., not taken off-world to fight Daemons and Ork incursions).

The Arbites have a strong history of working with the Inquisition. Judges are considered to be close allies of the Inquisition.

Next...

Terminus wrote:- Arco-Flagellants are an Ecclessiarchy monstrosity.

And given the close ties between the Ecclesiarchy and the Ordo Hereticus, they work pretty well together.

Next...

Terminus wrote:- Death Cultists are also Ecclessiarchy.

They're not specifically related to the Adeptus Ministorum either, so no.

Next...

Terminus wrote:- Valkyries are not a legal choice unless you're using Forge World.

FW = GW, and is legal and does not require opponent permission. Says so right in the book. And that really has nothing to do with the discussion at hand either.

Next...

Terminus wrote:- While the DH/WH books made Inquisitors required to field assassins, pretty much every major branch/ordo/office/whatever of the Imperium utilizes them at one point or another.

Every branch? Not really. I will agree here that they were put into the DH/WH books to avoid having a separate Assassins Codex.

Terminus wrote:- Hell, even the Storm Troopers are just more inducted/temporary units borrowed from elite Guard regiments.

No they're not. The Inquisition maintains standing units of Inquisitorial Storm Troopers.

Terminus wrote:So all you have is the Inquisitor himself and Daemonhosts. Again, you're not losing much of anything.

If they remove everything we just talked about, I lose an army. I'd consider that 'much of anything'.

I know that you want to see all the Rogue's Gallery units dropped, just like JohnnyDD has a raging hard-on to see everything Inq/GK dropped in favour of the One True Sisters Codex to Rule Them All, but consider the fact that, as we have been saying, the expansion and revision of GK's and SoB's does not require or even necessitate the dropping of the non-GK and non-SoB side of the Inquisition.

The two can co-exist, as they have done for 8 years. Why do you want these units to be gone?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Shaman wrote:HBMC you poor bastard how many armies have you had invalidated now..

I think your name stands for Horrible Black Magic Curse.

I decided to pre-empt GW a while back and got myself a full Deathwatch army - an army that doesn't even have rules yet (and probably never will).

To be fair, a Deathwatch army could be done viable with a counts as Pedro leading some Sternguard, and Arbites as Marine Scouts.

Longer than that. Arbites were in the Slaves to Darkness Inquisition (Ordo Malleus) list along with Inducted Imperial Guard and Space Marines (Space Marines were more like allies though).

Personally my bet is the inducted stuff goes before anything else along with the option to put Inquisition stuff in other armies (outside of Apocalypse games).

Yes that sounds spot on .

In response to Brother SRM.

@H.B.M.C.:
Your argumentation is not getting to the point.

1.) Everyone works well together with the Inquisition, if asked nicely

2.) Only the following units are pure Inquisition without ecclesiarchy:
- Inquisitor (with parts of the retinue, Crusader and Penitent and Ordo Hospitalis and Dialogis part of Ecclesiarchy)
- Assassins
- Death Cultists (their own cult not part of ecclesiarchy)
- Inquisitional Guard/Arbites (but can be easily substituted by some auxiliary troops or even Redempionists)
- Orbital Strike (poor excuse for not having enough heavy units)
We don't know of any of these, if they will be dropped. Much too early to tell. Maybe we even get a supplement or WD rules that allow ALL Imperial armies to have these forces as allies. This is one speculation.

3.) Arco flagellants, Penitent engines and Repentia are clearly ecclesiarchy troops, the first two even requiring a preacher to supervise them. So they will certainly stay. I would love to see more church units, first of all Redemptionists. If only to not make this army look like a copy/paste of the DH book. And it is easy to imagine a church leader having the same rules as an Inquisitor, one female WH Inquisitor even looks like one.

4.) The Codex is legal. FW rules are forbidden for most tournaments, for a reason. And those Valkyrie rules from the 90s are certainly dated, including the flyer rules. And even if they were legal, it is never wrong to ask your opponent to include something special like flyers. Remember: noone is forced to play against you. And your Arbites shotguns wouldn't like to face 3 Baneblades without warning

BTW I have just "lost" 6 Carnifex and 24 Spinegaunt models with the new Codex, so change happens.
And if everything goes wrong, I can recommend you another Codex with lots of Storm Troopers and valkyries.

Edit: Here is a dated 3rd edition fanmade Codex Adeptus Arbites: http://hem.spray.se/kendoka2/arbites/necromunda_aa.htm

*ducks the flames and venom spitting*

People, people i have heard a few more obscure rumors about the splitting up of the Inq and SoB, and it may be that your both right.

There has been talk that the SoB will be split off from WH and WH will be phased into a main Inq 'dex. The main Inq 'dex will be representative of all the ordo (could be something like sagas for the space wolves except only your Inquisitors will have although that is pure speculation). The SoB will be mainly Sisters but will represent all of the eccleisiarchy's military forces. There has been no talk of deatwatch inclusions but with the introduction of a Deathwatch RPG it may not be out of the question for them to be included. Arbites are out.

Now make sure to take this with heavy amounts of salt because the rumors were not exactly reliable but It could be true and I am strangely comfortable with this setup for the codexes.

I just hope its true

Black Temps? Really? A second found chapter still needs a codex?
Glad to hear about the DE's though, its about damn time.

So will the new dakkadakka meme be "Have you seen those GK greens?"

I've got a few things to say and ask that may kickstart some healthy discussion...

First off, a modern codex has between 30-40 distinct units in it. Assuming that inducted guard and allied space marines are done (I feel that is a safe assumption). And assuming that "grey knights" means that sisters of battle are not getting folded in to one 'inquisition' codex, then what we are likely to have is a codex with a LOT of new never before seen units.

A codex entitled "Grey Knights" isn't necessarily devoid of inquisition models. I think that the title of the codex just rightly demonstrates that this game is about military battles, and the 40k gustapo is unlikely to call the shots from a battlefield commander perspective.

Perhaps this codex still includes elite inquisitors, inquisitor lords, assassins, and storm troopers. But without the inducted guard angle, the narrative would be much more about a grandmaster prosecuting a campaign, with guidance, advice, assistance from the inquisition.

Keeping with the current model of at LEAST 30 distinct units in a modern 'dex. Lets see how far we can get with the models produced by GW

inquisitor lord and retinue
grey knights grand master

inquisitor and retinue (how distinct is this from the lord?)
grey knight terminators
assassins (4 different types)
death cult assassins (another assassin entry?)
demonhost

grey knights
inquisitorial storm troopers

grey knight teleport attack (terrible thinly veiled effort to put at least one unit in a FOC)

grey knight purgation squad
land raider
land raider crusader
dreadnought
orbital strike (really? that is not an FOC unit, just another desperate attempt to fill out the book)

rhino
chimera

brother captain stern
torquemada coteaz

Even if we count the teleport squad and the orbital bombardment. That is a mere 18 units. At very least we should expect to see 12 completely new unique units. Probably 3 more special characters, probably at least 3 new fast attack options, some more heavy support options as well, and perhaps fill out the abilities and fieldability of each different assassin type.

Now to the folks expecting and or hoping for a pure GK force... here is your starting point...

brother captain stern

grand master

grey knight terminators

grey knights

grey knight teleport attack

grey knight purgation squad
dreadnought
land raider
land raider crusader

Thats 9 total units. Just to hit the baseline of 30 distinct units you'd have to increase the unit count by over 300%. As a game designer it would seem like I'm basically starting from scratch. At this point GW would rightly be seeking anything and everything that could be bundled together to make a mega-codex.

From a fluff perspective, I agree that police forces and 'state' agents should be left out of battlefields. Say what you want about the inquisitorial mandate, and about how rigorous the inquisitorial agent training is. They should be stalking in the shadows, hunting down heretics, mutants and alien interlopers. But when their investigation hits the point where artillery flies and squadrons of tanks are facing off against each other, I think they contact their friendly local militant wing, tell them what they need accomplished, and then help facilitate that by continuing to do what they do. Investigate , sneak around, and provide connections.

That can and should probably be represented by elite choice inquisitor units that provide in-game buffs to nearby units or de-buffs to enemy units. There just isn't any other way to fill out a grey knights codex without their inclusion.

One other thing... I don't want to see jump pack grey knights at all... but whoever mentioned jetbike grey knights... i have to say that sounds awesome!

Not sure why you would need jumpacks...just give em all the teleport option and still let them stay troops.

All I have to say about Sisters getting an update is in this thread:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/273901.page

combatmedic wrote:
So will the new dakkadakka meme be "Have you seen those GK greens?"

lol

Kroothawk wrote:3.) Arco flagellants, Penitent engines and Repentia are clearly ecclesiarchy troops, the first two even requiring a preacher to supervise them. So they will certainly stay. I would love to see more church units, first of all Redemptionists.

Redemptionists and (most importantly) Frateris Militia!

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Kroothawk wrote:3.) Arco flagellants, Penitent engines and Repentia are clearly ecclesiarchy troops, the first two even requiring a preacher to supervise them. So they will certainly stay. I would love to see more church units, first of all Redemptionists.

Redemptionists and (most importantly) Frateris Militia!

While it certainly could be re-written, doesn't the current fluff prohibit the Ecclesiarchy from having male soldiers? Or am I thinking of something else? Or are you just being facetious? Ok...I've thought about it, you're being facetious.

Per the Fluff, the Frateris Militia aren't Ecclesiarchy forces per se, as they don't formally report to the Ecclesiarchy.

Ostrakon wrote:So is DE all but formally confirmed next or what?

I dunno if I'll end up playing them, but I think I'll probably pick up a codex and a few kits either way. Voting with my wallet and all that.

I really think that we as players need to stand up and show that long-forgotten xeno codices don't need to be high-risk ventures.

Agreed. I'll pick up a box or two. I may end up only using them as bits for basing, or if I ever feel like doing a diorama of SM kicking some DE ass, but I agree how important it is to show GW that distributing some love to the non-power armored armies.

Shep wrote:I've got a few things to say and ask that may kickstart some healthy discussion...

*STUFF*

One other thing... I don't want to see jump pack grey knights at all... but whoever mentioned jetbike grey knights... i have to say that sounds awesome!

I like where you're going with this. Some new GK units could be cool. Especially some retconned imperial Jetbikes.

Commander Endova wrote:I agree how important it is to show GW that distributing some love to the non-power armored armies.

You do know that buying DE aren't the only option available, right?

You could start a brand new Nid army, pick up a Imperial Superheavy Company for Apocalypse, or simply jump into War of the Ring... Any of those choices would be more than acceptable as far as GW is concerned.

Don't you mean acceptable as far as you're concerned DD. You just can't stand the idea that DE are next.

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Commander Endova wrote:I agree how important it is to show GW that distributing some love to the non-power armored armies.

You do know that buying DE aren't the only option available, right?

You could start a brand new Nid army, pick up a Imperial Superheavy Company for Apocalypse, or simply jump into War of the Ring... Any of those choices would be more than acceptable as far as GW is concerned.

I think 'Nids have always been a pretty popular army, since they have received updates with far more frequency than some of the others. Imperial super heavies are by no means new, and have done well enough, financially . WotR is another game system, and so probably wouldn't be relevant in a data analysis of WH40K sales. Other than that, I don;t have interest in any of those examples, as I don;t want to play a new army, rather, I wish to show GW, through my purchases, that investing significant time and resources into updating some of the older Xeno lines can be financially lucrative.

You obviously have an issue with Dark Eldar. I'm not partial to them either. I simply view their new line of models and books as the most poignant example of a correction of a long standing issue I see with GW's practice's. I'd ask that you make no further attempts to involve me in your vendetta against a certain army.

@Endova:

Dude, you play 40k, and Nids are the latest non-MEQ book. You play IG, so Superheavies for Apoc are a natural extension. And WotR is a pretty "safe" option when unknown rules changes in WFB8 are right around the corner.

Personally, I have no problem with the DE getting an update. They've needed it for a long time. As for BT's, personally I was hoping the new marine relase would be Dark Angels. Out of the non-GK marine codexes, theirs is the one that contains the most suck. Most people say "They were done just 2 years ago. They won't get one for a while." To that I say, the BA's were updated right after the DA's fourth edition codex. Sure it was a crappy PDF update, but an update is an update.

Yep DA were part of the line of crappy 4th ed codices.

Just like Tau and most importantly Chaos.

They managed to cut out alot of options without putting any new ones in.

Its a Codex that did not have a single new unit, a few new models (replacing existing ones).

(My DA function with the new SM Codex for a reason, as i had never touched the current DA one since i never played 4thed)

Pure suck yeah :S

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Commander Endova wrote:I agree how important it is to show GW that distributing some love to the non-power armored armies.

You do know that buying DE aren't the only option available, right?

You could start a brand new Nid army, pick up a Imperial Superheavy Company for Apocalypse, or simply jump into War of the Ring... Any of those choices would be more than acceptable as far as GW is concerned.

ou
Nids get updated often enough that I don't think GW needs any additional proof to support them further.

WotR seems to be outright dying at this rate, and I could really care less about it either way.

I certainly wouldn't be sending them any message by being one of several trillion players to buy Imperial stuff for Apoc.

This is about supporting a re-release of a Xeno army that should have gotten a crappy 4E codex like everyone else. This is about showing them that Marines and their seemingly endless derivatives are not the only thing that can generate revenue for them.

Is me shelling out 200 bucks on DE stuff going to make them stop making every other release a MEQ release? Probably not. But if players stepped up and actually supported GW doing something that doesn't suck it might influence their business practices a little bit. Wouldn't it be downright awesome if we could get Codex: Hrud or Codex: Demiurg at some point? Or even Codex: Mechanicus?

Hell, if I like the new models and codex I might actually play them. They seem a little silly right now fluffwise, but I kinda dig the aesthetic of the models. But if they keep the "fast but fragile" theme of the army, it'd complement my 'crons pretty nicely.

Talknig about ecclesiarchal-inquisitional troops... Aren't Repentia sisters SoB? AFAIK (wich is C:WH) you don't need to deploy a Inquisitor or a Priest to field a Repentia Sisters unit, and in the brief text at the right of their description in the army list says something about being fanatical Sisters in a holier position than a standard SoB troop. Or that's what I undestood.

^ yep. They are sob.

The best GW can usually do with the Dark Eldar is make them look like raiders in the big MMO that is the 40k galaxy. If they pulled stuff like they did in the Ultramarine omnibus - trying to hijack the Nightbringer's flagship, or suceeding in doing something more than abduct puny humans, like NOT getting slaughtered when they investigated that sleeping hive ship in the nid codex they might be more popular.

I'm not familiar with the Dark Elves in WHFB, but I do know they are a popular army. Is it fluff, or the army's viability?

VikingScott wrote:^ yep. They are sob.

Thanks Sir. I don't know why people say they are Ecclesiarchy :S

Siege_TF wrote:I'm not familiar with the Dark Elves in WHFB, but I do know they are a popular army. Is it fluff, or the army's viability?

I think it's both. The fluff has been quite more developed, and the part of Malekith leaving Ulthuan is quite cool. The Fall could be equally cool if it would be also better developed. And I think that Dark Elves in Fantasy are a more flexible army than DE in 40K.

JohnHwangDD wrote:You do know that buying DE aren't the only option available, right?

You could start a brand new Nid army, pick up a Imperial Superheavy Company for Apocalypse, or simply jump into War of the Ring... Any of those choices would be more than acceptable as far as GW is concerned.

Typically when it's made known that a certain codex is upcoming, there will be a resounding expression of disappointment from the people who have no interest...

But this is the first time I've actually seen somebody try to convince somebody else to not buy the new product. I mean, I had no interest in SWs or BAs but it never crossed my mind to tell a BA fan "You don't need to buy that. Buy Ultramarines instead. They're SMs too ya know..." Then again, it was never my intention to undermine the potential success of a GW product. Don't you want DE to sell like crazy? I thought you wanted more GEQ armies...

Erasoketa wrote:

VikingScott wrote:^ yep. They are sob.

Thanks Sir. I don't know why people say they are Ecclesiarchy :S

Far as I know the SOB are the chamber militant of the Ecclesiarchy...because Imperial law or some such prevents them from having any "Men at Arms".

Don't you want DE to sell like crazy?

No, then he'd be wrong.

Dark Eldar will thrive when they are re-released, you can quote me on that.



Having 12 years to update their rules, character development, and overall theme will do them well. The new codex will do two things;

#1: It will impress a vast majority of people showing them a new light in a potential of an army that they have not seent before, DE already have the accuracy of a shooty army (while less range) and are some of the best units at CC in the game, this update will only improve apon that and show the general population what they have been missing out on. -WARNING TANGENT KEEP READING AT YOUR OWN RISK- They are paper yes, but this will give people a new army to try, as they are truely unique. They are the "Rogue Class" army and I think that this will be more successful for players of all types. Moderately easy to play yet extremely difficult to master, but when mastered easily the deadliest foe on the board, even with a 12 year old book and 2 editions of rule changes that were disadventageous to them. When they get an upgrade, it will be impressive, maybe different from as they are now, but I think the general feel of "The Vorpal Weapon" of warhammer armies will still be theirs. I only hope the Inquisitions update changes them to be in the same league as DE but for people who like playing Humans... As currently none of the Space Marine lists have anything far too strategically impressive, sure Marines are EASY to play with, and EASY to win with most of the time... but good opponents can stomp even a good blood angels list with such a terrible (debative obviously) dex as Necrons... I just hope that Inquix doesn't fall into this same "Fisher Price My First Wargame" army type that is Space Marines (and to an extent, most guard lists).

And

#2: Will piss off a decent amount of current dark eldar players due to the inevitable changes that will occur (such as Grotesque rules). This however, should not matter much in the long run as many of these players have not purchased any new models in the past three years (I am one of these people, even if I am upset, I know GW doesn't care cause I've been buying my secondary armies from them consistantly for the past few years).

Daemon-Archon Ren wrote:Dark Eldar will thrive when they are re-released, you can quote me on that.

reidy1113 wrote:I think the next 40K codecise to come out will be:

Dark Eldar
Inquisitor
Necron
Black Templars
Eldar
6th Ed Rulebook
Tau Empire

I'm not sure so don't quote me on this. This may be in the wrong order and there could possibly be some more inbetween. Any new codecise released between the end of this year and the release of the 6th Ed rulebook will not make much sense in 5th Ed rules but will when the 6th Ed rules come out. Again, not sure about that but it's what I think will happen.

The one problem with your list is that it has been repeatedly said that ALL codices will be redone before the next edition. Further out it's tough to guess how things would play out but Eldar and Tau will most likely be released near each other. Which will be first is hard to guess. There is also rumors about Chaos Legions from a while back that would be a good addition at the end of the 5th edition cycle for another Power Armor army since most space marines will have been completed by then. For 6th edition an easy starter set would be Chaos vs Space Marines - plus tons of people would buy it just to have one army since you can easily modify them into either Chaos or Loyal Space Marines.

rogueeyes wrote:The one problem with your list is that it has been repeatedly said that ALL codices will be redone before the next edition.

It has? Really? About the only thing GW has confirmed of late is that there will be no new races in the near future because they want to work on supporting all of the existing ones. As when they do is in relation to new Editions is completely up in the air.

Flashman wrote:

rogueeyes wrote:The one problem with your list is that it has been repeatedly said that ALL codices will be redone before the next edition.

It has? Really? About the only thing GW has confirmed of late is that there will be no new races in the near future because they want to work on supporting all of the existing ones. As when they do is in relation to new Editions is completely up in the air.

Actually it has been stated by a couple of the designers at gamedays. I'll have to do a search back through the forums and see if I can look it up.

i would love to see the oldest armies get their updates finally. I know how frustrating it was to wait for my Dark Angels codex - and we all know how that turned out! Hope that a redone DA codex comes quicker than the Dark Eldar had to wait for theirs.

[Mod Edit - No, for 2 reasons.]

I refuse to wait 10 years for my Dark Angels to get updated, and it will be a even bigger slap in the face if they update the irrelevant black temps book before hand.

Their only reason for existing a few years ago was to take scouts in your tactical squad and more than one LRC. We have enough assaulty marine armies.

combatmedic wrote:I refuse to wait 10 years for my Dark Angels to get updated, and it will be a even bigger slap in the face if they update the irrelevant black temps book before hand.

Their only reason for existing a few years ago was to take scouts in your tactical squad and more than one LRC. We have enough assaulty marine armies.

By that same token, we already have Codex: Melancholic Marines with a Terrible Secret.

At least BT have the potential for something mechanically distinct. What the hell does DA even have that couldn't be represented by C:SM with a few additional special characters?

All i want is a new Necron dex and plastic kits for alot of the models aswell as a new MC for them (so not much then haha). The DE codex does interest me more than another SM codex and im still a relative new comer to the hobby.

Ostrakon wrote:

combatmedic wrote:I refuse to wait 10 years for my Dark Angels to get updated, and it will be a even bigger slap in the face if they update the irrelevant black temps book before hand.

Their only reason for existing a few years ago was to take scouts in your tactical squad and more than one LRC. We have enough assaulty marine armies.

By that same token, we already have Codex: Melancholic Marines with a Terrible Secret.

At least BT have the potential for something mechanically distinct. What the hell does DA even have that couldn't be represented by C:SM with a few additional special characters?

I'm a long time Dark Angels player and I would have gone for this in a heartbeat. The only thing that is really different about DAs is the chapter organization, but that really doesn't have much to do with the actual ForceOrg. A few special characters that allowed the deathwing and ravenwing as troops would have been all it really needed.

I'm split now over using the old codex or the new vanilla one. I'll probably use the old one for Deathwing and Ravenwing specific forces and the vanilla codex for straight up MEQ armies.

OK, we got the memo, a large number of players really dislike the number of marine variant codices. Thanks. Noted. Can we move on now, rather than continuing to make yet another rumor thread into a "Noes more Spaze Marinez" Thread. Sorry, but after reading over a hundred of these, even my cherub demeanor gets taxed.

Instead, if you really want to discuss the large number of variant marines and your grievances with such a marketing scheme, please make a separate thread in the 40K General Discussion. In fact, Alpharius why don't you just sticky it so that one thread may rule them all.

vitki wrote:

Ostrakon wrote:

combatmedic wrote:I refuse to wait 10 years for my Dark Angels to get updated, and it will be a even bigger slap in the face if they update the irrelevant black temps book before hand.

Their only reason for existing a few years ago was to take scouts in your tactical squad and more than one LRC. We have enough assaulty marine armies.

By that same token, we already have Codex: Melancholic Marines with a Terrible Secret.

At least BT have the potential for something mechanically distinct. What the hell does DA even have that couldn't be represented by C:SM with a few additional special characters?

I'm a long time Dark Angels player and I would have gone for this in a heartbeat. The only thing that is really different about DAs is the chapter organization, but that really doesn't have much to do with the actual ForceOrg. A few special characters that allowed the deathwing and ravenwing as troops would have been all it really needed.

I'm split now over using the old codex or the new vanilla one. I'll probably use the old one for Deathwing and Ravenwing specific forces and the vanilla codex for straight up MEQ armies.

The same could have been said with the Blood Angels PDF codex. Put a special character Dante in vanilla marines and all your jump units become troops, and the vanguards get feel no pain. Thats the problem people are having with the last DA codex, it completely took away everything they had going for them. The current codex is completely shameful.

Would I like to see a new Chaos book out? Definitely. they should have daemons back and be what they used to be. But I can name about 7 armies that need codexs before BT do.

And having never seen a BT player, EVER, and seeing the same BT box on the shelf for years shows no one cares about them.

Mock Heroic wrote:All i want is a new Necron dex and plastic kits for alot of the models aswell as a new MC for them (so not much then haha). The DE codex does interest me more than another SM codex and im still a relative new comer to the hobby.

Then I commend you for having the testicular fortitude to begin the hobby with a non-SM army. I believe you'll be a stronger player for it.

combatmedic wrote:
And having never seen a BT player, EVER, and seeing the same BT box on the shelf for years shows no one cares about them.

Because you and your area are indicative of the player base as a whole. Get over yourself.

I've seen and still do see plenty of BT armies. People still care about them, trust me.

Thanks Although i am doing a SM army as my second haha.

Though to be fair i think out of all the chapters with their own codexs BT and Gks interest me the most so i think ill still pick up whatever comes, whether it be DE, Necron, GK, SOB or BT.

combatmedic wrote:Would I like to see a new Chaos book out? Definitely. they should have daemons back and be what they used to be. But I can name about 7 armies that need codexs before BT do.

And having never seen a BT player, EVER, and seeing the same BT box on the shelf for years shows no one cares about them.

Didn't the LA battle bunker name BT the official in store army at the beginning of this year. And I see many BT players at that particular battle bunker. And though I vehemently disagree with your assessment of the update requirements of the various armies, I happen to despise most of the changes in the vanilla SM codex and don't want to see any of them carry over to my beloved boys in black (except maybe the new drop pod rules .

Archonate wrote:

Mock Heroic wrote:All i want is a new Necron dex and plastic kits for alot of the models aswell as a new MC for them (so not much then haha). The DE codex does interest me more than another SM codex and im still a relative new comer to the hobby.

Then I commend you for having the testicular fortitude to begin the hobby with a non-SM army. I believe you'll be a stronger player for it.

Do I get a prize for having gone from interested to burned-out on 40k and only bought one of those old half-squads of mSpace Marines, mainly for conversion parts, in addition to armies of Tyranids and Sisters?

combatmedic wrote:

vitki wrote:

Ostrakon wrote:

combatmedic wrote:I refuse to wait 10 years for my Dark Angels to get updated, and it will be a even bigger slap in the face if they update the irrelevant black temps book before hand.

Their only reason for existing a few years ago was to take scouts in your tactical squad and more than one LRC. We have enough assaulty marine armies.

By that same token, we already have Codex: Melancholic Marines with a Terrible Secret.

At least BT have the potential for something mechanically distinct. What the hell does DA even have that couldn't be represented by C:SM with a few additional special characters?

I'm a long time Dark Angels player and I would have gone for this in a heartbeat. The only thing that is really different about DAs is the chapter organization, but that really doesn't have much to do with the actual ForceOrg. A few special characters that allowed the deathwing and ravenwing as troops would have been all it really needed.

I'm split now over using the old codex or the new vanilla one. I'll probably use the old one for Deathwing and Ravenwing specific forces and the vanilla codex for straight up MEQ armies.

The same could have been said with the Blood Angels PDF codex. Put a special character Dante in vanilla marines and all your jump units become troops, and the vanguards get feel no pain. Thats the problem people are having with the last DA codex, it completely took away everything they had going for them. The current codex is completely shameful.

Would I like to see a new Chaos book out? Definitely. they should have daemons back and be what they used to be. But I can name about 7 armies that need codexs before BT do.

And having never seen a BT player, EVER, and seeing the same BT box on the shelf for years shows no one cares about them.

I don't really think you could have reasonably done that with BA though. Their fluff would make them operate distinctively from other chapters.

DA fluff however... They're practically a codex chapter straight up, albeit with a pretty rich background. They don't have any weird gene-seed quirk that makes them act differently, or some kind of extradordinary-even-by-astartes-standard level of zeal that would need rules to represent them. Everything that makes DA interesting as a chapter has very little to do with what they do in battle.

Seriously, the only thing that merits an entire codex is their awesome background. Rules-wise the only thing to distinguish them would be Deathwing, Ravenwing, lots of heavy plasma, and maybe some Favored Enemy:CSM. Unless they retcon some things heavily, which is always possible.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mock Heroic wrote:Thanks Although i am doing a SM army as my second haha.

Though to be fair i think out of all the chapters with their own codexs BT and Gks interest me the most so i think ill still pick up whatever comes, whether it be DE, Necron, GK, SOB or BT.

Yeah, I started with 5E 'crons too. People at my LGS keep telling me how crazy and broken auto-glances were, but I'm pretty sure none of them passed a statistics class.

Be good to see a new DA codex that emphasises their supposed tactical & strategic strengths. Basically a more shooty Marine army (since the other 3 are all CC-oriented). Yes, give us Ravenwing and Deathwing armies, of course, but also give us power armoured troops with more or better plasma than usual (an HQ choice who made all plasma twin-linked would be handy...), and maybe with the option of 2 heavy weapons per tac squad...

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Commander Endova wrote:I agree how important it is to show GW that distributing some love to the non-power armored armies.

You do know that buying DE aren't the only option available, right?

You could start a brand new Nid army, pick up a Imperial Superheavy Company for Apocalypse, or simply jump into War of the Ring... Any of those choices would be more than acceptable as far as GW is concerned.

Key point of clarification: I am merely noting that there is a difference between "distributing some love to the non-power armored armies" and buying DE. DE are a (small) subset of the overall non-SM whole. A non-SM dollar is a non-SM dollar. I like non-SM stuff, too, and I think I've shown that by buying lots of Eldar, IG, Sisters, Inquisition, WFB, BFG, etc. including Dark Eldar (I own their Codex and models, TYVM). But if I wanted to send GW a message that non-SM should get more support, it'll be just as well noted by me adding more Eldar / Guard / Sisters / WFB / BFG / WotR whatever to the pile.

On to the comments!
____

Ostrakon wrote:This is about supporting a re-release of a Xeno army that should have gotten a crappy 4E codex like everyone else.

This is about showing them that Marines and their seemingly endless derivatives are not the only thing that can generate revenue for them.

Is me shelling out 200 bucks on DE stuff going to make them stop making every other release a MEQ release? Probably not.

But if players stepped up and actually supported GW doing something that doesn't suck it might influence their business practices a little bit.

Wouldn't it be downright awesome if we could get Codex: Hrud or Codex: Demiurg at some point? Or even Codex: Mechanicus?

DE *did* get an update, and don't you forget it or ignore it. See the update logo in the corner? Right!

I'll have you know I'm only buying the BA Codex, having skipped the models and SW entirely. Except for a couple Vindicators.

Given that MEQs make up about half of the current Codices, no, that won't change any time soon.

The overwhelming bulk of my recent purchases have been non-SM. Hasn't really seemed to catch GW's attention, tho.
____

Archonate wrote:But this is the first time I've actually seen somebody try to convince somebody else to not buy the new product.

Don't you want DE to sell like crazy?

I thought you wanted more GEQ armies...

Please re-read above. I never told him not to buy DE. I said there were other ways to accomplish the goal of showing love to non-PA.

I could care less how well DE sell, as I don't play them anymore, and have sold of the vast bulk of what I once owned, and am not inclined to restart what I've cycled through.

I want more GEQ armies, and having people spend more on Nids, Orks, Tau, and especially Guard & Eldars would certainly help!

____

Daemon-Archon Ren wrote:Dark Eldar will thrive when they are re-released, you can quote me on that.

GW hasn't re-released anything as a standing army as far as I can recall. Presumably, this could be a "test case" for re-releasing Chaos Dwarves / Dogs of War in WFB, along with Squats for 40k.

Tho, I do wonder, what if it doesn't take off?

Erasoketa wrote:

VikingScott wrote:^ yep. They are sob.

Thanks Sir. I don't know why people say they are Ecclesiarchy :S

Because the sisters of battle (Adeptus Sororitas) are the military arm of the Ecclesiarchy

ALL sisters are ecclesiarchy units.

Purge the Heretic wrote:

Erasoketa wrote:

VikingScott wrote:^ yep. They are sob.

Thanks Sir. I don't know why people say they are Ecclesiarchy :S

Because the sisters of battle (Adeptus Sororitas) are the military arm of the Ecclesiarchy
ALL sisters are ecclesiarchy units.

As he said. The book "Faith and Fire" gives you a good insight in Sororitas and Repentia. Repentia don't need a priest or inquisitor rulewise (as I said above), just a Mistress. Think of Repentia as Sisters who felt disgraced somehow and chose this path to ... well ... repent. Or as the website says:

Confession and penance are part of a Sister's everyday existence, those who fall short of the rigorous codes may find themselves banded into groups and led into battle in an attempt to earn redemption.

For the best Ecclesiarchy background information, look at the 2nd edition Sororitas Codex.

wyomingfox wrote:OK, we got the memo, a large number of players really dislike the number of marine variant codices. Thanks. Noted. Can we move on now, rather than continuing to make yet another rumor thread into a "Noes more Spaze Marinez" Thread. Sorry, but after reading over a hundred of these, even my cherub demeanor gets taxed.

Instead, if you really want to discuss the large number of variant marines and your grievances with such a marketing scheme, please make a separate thread in the 40K General Discussion. In fact, Alpharius why don't you just sticky it so that one thread may rule them all.

I'm tempted to do that.

Believe me, very, very tempted...

Purge the Heretic wrote:

Erasoketa wrote:

VikingScott wrote:^ yep. They are sob.

Thanks Sir. I don't know why people say they are Ecclesiarchy :S

Because the sisters of battle (Adeptus Sororitas) are the military arm of the Ecclesiarchy

ALL sisters are ecclesiarchy units.

This is what happens when I have to buy the Codex in English because the Spanish was discontinued earlier. That I don't understand the half of what I read \o/

I was thinking in Ecclesiarchy as an organization that collaborates with SoB orders (being SoB an external organization), and not thinking in Ecclesiarchy as an organization including or ruling the SoB orders in it's own core.

I agree with H for once (ugh).

I think John for some reason is so adamant against DE that he can't believe they are around the corner so tells people to "buy anything non-SM that isn't DE" maybe in the hope that they'll fail as an army and GW will squat them.

I realize if less people bought Marines and more Xenos then Marines might be less commonplace. On the other hand, telling people to buy other armies or GW product lines because you have a personal vendetta against a certain army yourself is not going to be healthy either. it just makes you look like "TFG".

DE could possibly change the metagame down the road as far as xenos vs Marine love. Companies push what sells the most. Take Coca-cola. There are way more advertisements on tv for Coke than their is Sprite. Both are made by the same company but one gets pushed more. Why? Because one sells better than the other. A smart company does this. If more people bought Orks or Eldar or IG than SM's than GW would shift focus and you'd see the Marine players whining as much as xenos/guard players do.

Set aside your personal bias John. DE are coming whether you like it or not. If someone posts they want to buy DE when they are released than you should be happy they aren't buying Marines, not saying "buy Tyranids instead or buy Craftworld Eldar instead". Encouraging people to NOT buy DE will result in DE failing if the people listen, meaning GW loses money meaning not only do SM players lose but we ALL lose, whether you play Tyranids or IG or Orks.

DE sounds like it will be a winner and the Marine haters, especially you John, should be encouraging people to ride the bandwagon this late summer/early fall; not scare them off it.

Fateweaver wrote:I think John for some reason is so adamant against DE

he can't believe they are around the corner so tells people to "buy anything non-SM that isn't DE" maybe in the hope that they'll fail as an army and GW will squat them.

telling people to buy other armies or GW product lines because you have a personal vendetta against a certain army yourself is not going to be healthy either.

If more people bought Orks or Eldar or IG than SM's than GW would shift focus and you'd see the Marine players whining as much as xenos/guard players do.

Set aside your personal bias John. DE are coming whether you like it or not.

If someone posts they want to buy DE when they are released than you should be happy they aren't buying Marines, not saying "buy Tyranids instead or buy Craftworld Eldar instead". Encouraging people to NOT buy DE will result in DE failing if the people listen, meaning GW loses money meaning not only do SM players lose but we ALL lose, whether you play Tyranids or IG or Orks.

DE sounds like it will be a winner

the Marine haters, especially you John, should be encouraging people to ride the bandwagon this late summer/early fall; not scare them off it.

Did you not even read my follow-up reply on the previous page? I'm not against DE per se, but I have been pretty irritated by years of empty promises and hollow rumors.

If you go back 2 years, we had guys saying that they'd seen the models and that the Codex was ready. "Reliable" people. Adamantly. We got nothing for over a year and a half. WRT DE, I believe nothing that I don't see.

As I told the others, and I'm telling you, re-read what I wrote. I didn't say not to buy DE. I said there were other non-SM options, which was what the previous poster wrote about - non-SM options.

With the size of the SM base, it's not shifting any time soon. Don't think that for a minute. All one can hope for is a slight slowdown of the rate at which SM stuff comes out.

Got any actual proof that DE are coming? If so, please share.

DE will fail (or not) on their own merits, not because they should be some charity case. People want DE to succeed? Start a full 2000-pt DE army. Spend real money on DE and GW will listen. And by real money, I'm talking a few hundred bucks, not "a couple boxes". Thing is, if people had spent that money while DE were still on the shelves, DE never would have been pulled in the first place. DE are far more popular now, than they ever were, only because they've been effectively Squatted. If/when DE actually appear, I'm going to be very curious to see who puts their money where their mouth is, and want to see just how strongly they support the army with their wallets.

What basis do you have for saying "DE sounds like it will be a winner"? Have you got Codex or model information you can share? Or is this just wishful thinking? Back in 3rd, DE seemed like a winner too.

I'm not a Marine hater at all, not with thousands of points in Marines. I say, people should buy what they like, and not bother with charity. Simple as that.

I believe what John was trying to say in the post that instigated all this lolsyness is that there are other options than Dark Eldar and waiting for years on end not knowing if they will come out isnt exactly the smartest plan. While its all fine and dandy to do that, he simply meant to suggest an option that was more available at the moment which would also help Xeno's sales.

So back to the topic at hand, while there have been rumors that the book has been put to print, Im really more interested in the models. Have there been any peeps on thee at all?

Excluding our favorite green of course.

Someone on Warseer has their source saying there will be an announcement about the codex to come on the 4th of may...well he said 18 days from now, Very specific, and easily proven/disproven when the date comes due.

Still seems odd to me that anything would be announced on a tuesday, but we shall see.

Purge the Heretic wrote:Someone on Warseer has their source saying there will be an announcement about the codex to come on the 4th of may...well he said 18 days from now, Very specific, and easily proven/disproven when the date comes due.

Still seems odd to me that anything would be announced on a tuesday, but we shall see.

Cool. If there's going to be something official, that'd be great.

If "Everything you have been told is a lie" on a Mystery Box, that's just crap.

Tuesday seems to be the day new albums/movies come out in store in the USA, so maybe the DE annoucement will be performed by Bolt Thrower!

Ostrakon wrote:

combatmedic wrote:I refuse to wait 10 years for my Dark Angels to get updated, and it will be a even bigger slap in the face if they update the irrelevant black temps book before hand.

Their only reason for existing a few years ago was to take scouts in your tactical squad and more than one LRC. We have enough assaulty marine armies.

By that same token, we already have Codex: Melancholic Marines with a Terrible Secret.

At least BT have the potential for something mechanically distinct. What the hell does DA even have that couldn't be represented by C:SM with a few additional special characters?

Just cause youre leaving your flank wide open.

BA have everything BT have with the exception of the Emperors champion. And scouts with normal Marines. And an army roster less than half the size.

Do we need another assault army from the Marines?

DA could be the shooty approach. Finally.

I know you are not that narrow minded ^^. Just tugging your nerves a bit here.

We have 1 BT and 1 DA player at our store, out of 5 SM players total. Every codex has one guy. So yeah i see 3 Assault armies on the table, and 1 balanced, and the kinda semibalanced DA.

Basically DA deserve theyre own codex due to fluff. And the option for the Deathwing and Ravenwing. Along with the option to retcon huge amounts of strange and arcane wargear from the Great Crusade. And thus turn them into a very shooty army.

That would give us 3 Assaults, 1 balanced, 1 Semishooty (since we all know that IG are the true Shooty Imperials).

Oh yeah and i hope DE arent too good when they hit. I dont wanna spend any money on them. But i might if they are that good. I own 2 SM armies, so i can easily hold off on new purchases. A totallynew DE army is alot of temptation ^^.

combatmedic wrote:Have there been any peeps on thee at all?

They look like the one in the 5th ed rule book artwork(pg 174 of the hardcover). Some of them have a crossbow spar on the front of their rifle.

Crossbow spar? On a rifle?

That sounds kinda stupid actually...haven't even seen a model yet and I'm already worried.

VikingScott wrote:Great so in terms of rules the inquisitors themselves get squatted then.
That seems to be the general opinion

General opinion of idiots, maybe. They can't do a GK codex without Inquisitors, and despite their recent disregard of fluff, there is simply too much money (games, novels, etc.) in the Inquisition for them to simply "squat" them.

The thing about DE John is that there has NEVER been a concrete date set by anyone official.

All we've heard is "soon" and people assume"soon" means 3-6 months AFTER the word "soon" is spoken.

So everyone saying things like "we were promised" or "GW has said" is all misinformation and lies to fuel the flames some more.

Reds8n seems to believe that DE are at the printers. That could mean an August release, that could mean a October or even January of 2k11 release. If the codex is indeed at printers you know they'll come out.

It has never been a question of "if", but a question of "when". Only the Chicken-Littles, sky is falling types have been crying "if".

Didn't mean to blanket you but you've been adamantly against GW redoing DE for quite some time so when you tell people to not wait for DE and to invest in other armies instead it appears to me and others that you want to see DE fail. DE have failed so far because the models were crap and the codex was crap. With Phil on codex duty and Jes on model duty those 2 would have to purposely feth it up for it to fail and I'm sure neither wants to garner a bad rep. There is a reason that the 4th edition Eldar codex still sells well and the army attracts people to it to this day. Phil did the codex, Jes did the majority of rescultps and the vehicles like Falcon and Prism go back to 2nd edition and are still considered the best looking vehicle kits to come out of GW.

I'm confident that unless Phil or Jes feth up immensely (and I doubt they would) DE can't fail.

As to people buying only a few boxes of DE, you know that's a seriously narrow view John. People buying a new army obviously will need more than "a few boxes", even existing DE players will probably feel the need to add more or, as does with every codex to come out, be forced to change up army comp a little bit (especially considering right now there is only one way to play DE).

JohnHwangDD wrote:DE *did* get an update, and don't you forget it or ignore it. See the update logo in the corner? Right!

I'm not sure if that really counts as an update. It was a gakky Jervis book, and about a year after it was released, GW decided that maybe they could use some wargear and vehicle upgrade options. It was initially published in WD, and then in the re-print of the codex (which was the second 3rd edition book, released one month after the box set and C:SM).

I've liked the idea of DE but the craptacular models put me off.

The only ones I'd spend money on are the jetbikes. The DE jetbikes are nicest "bike" unit of all the "bike" units in 40K, IMO.

Fateweaver wrote:I've liked the idea of DE but the craptacular models put me off.

The only ones I'd spend money on are the jetbikes. The DE jetbikes are nicest "bike" unit of all the "bike" units in 40K, IMO.

I'm pretty sure that it has been a long time since Jes Goodwin made a craptacular model - and possibly never!.

Ostrakon wrote:
I don't really think you could have reasonably done that with BA though. Their fluff would make them operate distinctively from other chapters.

DA fluff however... They're practically a codex chapter straight up, albeit with a pretty rich background. They don't have any weird gene-seed quirk that makes them act differently, or some kind of extradordinary-even-by-astartes-standard level of zeal that would need rules to represent them. Everything that makes DA interesting as a chapter has very little to do with what they do in battle.

Seriously, the only thing that merits an entire codex is their awesome background. Rules-wise the only thing to distinguish them would be Deathwing, Ravenwing, lots of heavy plasma, and maybe some Favored Enemy:CSM. Unless they retcon some things heavily, which is always possible.

Nonsense. Prior to the most recent codex, the only thing different about BA were certain units counting as troops, a couple semi-special pieces of wargear, and the Black Rage rule thrown in. Nothing a couple of special characters couldn't convey unto an army. Except maybe the Baal Predator, but if BAs got the DA treatment then all Space Marine chapters would have Baal preds by now.

But now look at the new codex! Crazy units galore! Unique weapons and vehicles found nowhere else in the Imperium! I mean seriously, where did the Librarian Dreadnought come from?

Point is, in terms of uniqueness, codex adherence, and "extraordinary-ness" pre-5th ed BA were in the exact same position DA are now. There is more than enough to create a full codex for DA. Not that most DA players wouldn't mind simply settling for some kind of PDF rules update to fix silliness like Storm Shields and Scout Turbo Boosting bikes.

New question then!

Just visited GW webshop, and BOTH Daemonhunters and Witchhunters Codex were missing/not available/gone.

Remember being there just a couple of days ago, and they were there..

Any reasons for this? Rumorwise, or facts

Alienfood wrote:New question then!

Just visited GW webshop, and BOTH Daemonhunters and Witchhunters Codex were missing/not available/gone.

Remember being there just a couple of days ago, and they were there..

Any reasons for this? Rumorwise, or facts

What are you talking about...I just went to the website 2 seconds ago. They're still up there.

My point is that, prior execution ineptitudes aside, BA, BT, SW, and standard Codex-adhering marines all have sufficient fluff differences that should translate reasonably well to crunch differences that merit an entire new codex.

BA freak out and go ragey, and have a high concentration of assault troops.

BT are incredibly zealous even by SM standards, and this is the source of their strength. Plus the organization is pretty different from Codex Astartes.

SW don't even pretend to adhere to the codex, and this is well-represented in their book.

DA, fluffwise, isn't terribly distinct from your average codex chapter on the battlefield. Nothing that couldn't be represented with a couple special characters in C: SM.

Now, if we're going to retcon DA a little bit to give them some more interesting things, I'm all for it. Hell, I'd rather see that codex than have BT come out first, simply because you're right: I'm getting sick of assault marines. But right now there's really no reason the majority of DA players (read: Not Deathwing or Ravenwing) can't just counts-as Codex: SM.

I guess if we really wanted to do DA, what could we give them with the existing fluff that isn't decently represented by the current vanilla codex?