22328
Post by: Deep Throat
It may be well known by now, but I thought after the boxed-set of 10 Sisters was returned to the GW website, it was still available but only in a difficultly-accessed supply. However, today I just got an email saying that the product had been discontinued and my order had been canceled. I can deal with having to get the somewhat expensive little blisters, but I'm more curious than ever as to what's going on with the Battle Sisters. I've read a lot of the rumors about upcoming codexes, and was wondering if there was insight of Inquisition codex reform or if something darker was happening to this rarely-used faction, although I have many doubts about the squatting of a faction like this. Will we just have to permanently deal with 3-man blisters from now on, or is there hope for a new metal boxed set or plastic models?
99
Post by: insaniak
There have been rumours of the Inquisition codexes being redone (and possibly consolidated) for some time now.
Retiring a box when a codex is due for an update generally means either repackaging or new models.
11558
Post by: Uriels_Flame
I think Necrons are next. If you're in the market, I have some sisters in the Swap Shop 
25945
Post by: Vlad Von Carstien
oo they discontinued the Deamonhunters codex too O.o that means they are after eldar HORAY!!!
1047
Post by: Defiler
Vlad Von Carstien wrote:oo they discontinued the Deamonhunters codex too O.o that means they are after eldar HORAY!!!
Heh.
I think looking at all the rumors and information surrounding the potential release schedule, I think it will be something like this :
2010
Tyranids
Blood Angels
Dark Eldar *
Grey Knights
2011
Necrons *
Dark Angels
Eldar
Sisters *
Black Templars
* almost confirmed, heavily hinted towards
The dev's have stated that Sisters will probably be last in the 5th edition cycle. There is a lot of mystery about just how packed the next two years will be with releases, but there have been rumors about more being put out than previous years.
11558
Post by: Uriels_Flame
I've heard Chaos is being set for December of 2012...
28862
Post by: ProfitOfTheWaaagh!!!
Uriels_Flame wrote:I've heard Chaos is being set for December of 2012...
Yes i believe that Tau are also being redone in October 2012.
Where did you get this rumour from as i have never heard of anything about chaos in the next 3 years.
I have only heard up to March next year
17155
Post by: bhsman
That's not a bad list Defiler, but honestly I'd switch Dark Eldar and Grey Knights, if only because the traditional signs (codex and some units being removed from the website) have gone for them whereas you can still purchase Dark Eldar models off the website.
I don't suppose we could rename the thread and have this be the dedicated =I=/Grey Knights rumor thread?
320
Post by: Platuan4th
ProfitOfTheWaaagh!!! wrote:Uriels_Flame wrote:I've heard Chaos is being set for December of 2012...
Yes i believe that Tau are also being redone in October 2012.
Where did you get this rumour from as i have never heard of anything about chaos in the next 3 years.
I have only heard up to March next year
I believe it was a joke.
22328
Post by: Deep Throat
Defiler wrote:Vlad Von Carstien wrote:oo they discontinued the Deamonhunters codex too O.o that means they are after eldar HORAY!!!
Heh.
I think looking at all the rumors and information surrounding the potential release schedule, I think it will be something like this :
2010
Tyranids
Blood Angels
Dark Eldar *
Grey Knights
2011
Necrons *
Dark Angels
Eldar
Sisters *
Black Templars
* almost confirmed, heavily hinted towards
The dev's have stated that Sisters will probably be last in the 5th edition cycle. There is a lot of mystery about just how packed the next two years will be with releases, but there have been rumors about more being put out than previous years.
bhsman wrote:That's not a bad list Defiler, but honestly I'd switch Dark Eldar and Grey Knights, if only because the traditional signs (codex and some units being removed from the website) have gone for them whereas you can still purchase Dark Eldar models off the website.
I don't suppose we could rename the thread and have this be the dedicated =I=/Grey Knights rumor thread?
Very nice to see that Sisters are very heavily hinted toward being redone, and it would be great to see another codex dedicated to the adeptas soritas alone! I also like the suggestion about changing the forum title and dedicating it.
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
Yeah I'm with bshman on this one. I really think GK's are coming first so they can have a big end-of-year thing with the Storm Raven and plastic GKT's.
Then do DE after that.
3330
Post by: Kirasu
Well since both GKs and sisters are metal models I seriously dont think there is any "repackaging".. They only do that with plastics
So only actual options imo are new models/codex or homeworld eaten by tyranids excuse
17155
Post by: bhsman
Well, while we're on the first page we might as well get this linked. Interesting if only from the fact that it compiles GW responses on the Inquisition via email and calling them directly.
As for more solid stuff, as mentioned both Grey Knights AND Sisters have had their respective books removed in addition to some of their model sets. The same thing occurred with Space Wolves, Imperial Guard, Tyranids, and to an extent with Blood Angels in the 1-3 month period, give or take, before a codex was released.
That said, with Fantasy 8th edition popping up in little over a month, so with maybe a month break after that, we can probably assume the next codex, be it Grey Knights/Ordo Malleus, GK + all Ordos, or some combination of Sisters, GK AND the Ordos, will be somewhere around August.
4884
Post by: Therion
Then do DE after that.
But Yakface said the DE are coming this fall with 12 new plastic boxes! Are you saying they aren't? Oh no...
24567
Post by: Kroothawk
The German WH and DH Codices were discontinued three years ago, a fool-proof sign that new German Codices must have been released two years ago. 
If you start a news&rumour thread without news&rumours, why not at least put a question mark in the title, so as not to raise false hopes among all people annoyed by all the existing non-content DH and WH threads.
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Post by: dietrich
H.B.M.C. wrote:Yeah I'm with bshman on this one. I really think GK's are coming first so they can have a big end-of-year thing with the Storm Raven and plastic GKT's.
Then do DE after that.
Also, the price increases hit the Dark Eldar range, but nothing in the Inquisition range. So, I agree, I think GK are next.
12329
Post by: TheCadianParatrooper
....WHAT EVER HAPPEN TO TAU!!!!!.....*cries*
1165
Post by: boreas
Kroothawk wrote:The German WH and DH Codices were discontinued three years ago, a fool-proof sign that new German Codices must have been released two years ago.
If you start a news&rumour thread without news&rumours, why not at least put a question mark in the title, so as not to raise false hopes among all people annoyed by all the existing non-content DH and WH threads.
Well, in all fairness, the German and French WH/ DH codice were not discontinued per se, but rather put on the website as downloadable PDFs. They still are! I wonder if GW ever measured the effect this had on the WH/ DH sales in those countries? If DH/ WH sales where proportionally higher there, maybe they sould have put all codices as PFD! The "real" book would contain all the extra fluff, hobby articles, etc...
Oh well, I'm still hopping GKs are first (although I think DE also have a rightful claim!)...
Phil
18009
Post by: rogueeyes
It's been stated by a lot of sources that both GK and DE are coming. Not even people that have been proven to be reliable sources of rumors knew which was next but only that both were basically complete and ready to go.
The strongest source of information has been DPA stating that DE would have to wait a little longer and that GK are obscuring his vision. Well at least that's the decoded version.
And on the note of repackaging - I think the poster that stated these would be repackaged meant that the metal models were being recreated as plastics - which is heavily supported in rumors.
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Post by: bhsman
Kroothawk wrote:The German WH and DH Codices were discontinued three years ago, a fool-proof sign that new German Codices must have been released two years ago.
Beaten, but they were put up as downloadable pdfs immediately afterwards. I'd just consider than an outlier.
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Post by: Uriels_Flame
Platuan4th wrote:ProfitOfTheWaaagh!!! wrote:Uriels_Flame wrote:I've heard Chaos is being set for December of 2012...
Yes i believe that Tau are also being redone in October 2012.
Where did you get this rumour from as i have never heard of anything about chaos in the next 3 years.
I have only heard up to March next year
I believe it was a joke.
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Post by: Father Gabe
Tau got an upgrade last edition. DE, GK and WH are woefully behind...so dont cry out just yet. Wait until they are two editions behind to cry.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
BTW, that was supposed to sound funny thecadianparatrooper
1523
Post by: Saldiven
H.B.M.C. wrote:Yeah I'm with bshman on this one. I really think GK's are coming first so they can have a big end-of-year thing with the Storm Raven and plastic GKT's.
Then do DE after that.
Why do I keep seeing people linking the release of the Stormraven with the release of Grey Knights? There is no real reason that the two be released at the same time. Some assert that linking them together will result in a huge sales splurge, but there really aren't that many people who play GK's, and there never have been that many (when compared to pretty much any other MEq).
15829
Post by: Redemption
Saldiven wrote:Why do I keep seeing people linking the release of the Stormraven with the release of Grey Knights? There is no real reason that the two be released at the same time.
The reason that many believe the SR will be released with the Grey Knights, is that the Stormraven entry in the Blood Angel codex states that the Grey Knights also use it. So it does make some sense as sort of a a combined GK / 'Blood Angel Wave 2' release.
Saldiven wrote:Some assert that linking them together will result in a huge sales splurge, but there really aren't that many people who play GK's, and there never have been that many (when compared to pretty much any other MEq).
Well, the two main reasons for that are expensive metal models and an outdated codex. Both which would be (at least partially) solved with a new release. I know I'd make a GK army if their new models and codex are half decent.
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Post by: Brother SRM
bhsman wrote:Well, while we're on the first page we might as well get this linked. Interesting if only from the fact that it compiles GW responses on the Inquisition via email and calling them directly.
To anyone who hasn't read that link, go read it now. Lots of somewhat grounded rumor and speculation going on.
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Post by: Space_Potato
If Grey Knights get a new release, my orks will be put on hold, and they will be many celebratory crotch-thrusts.
Thanks for posting the link, lots of useful stuff in there.
S_P
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Post by: bhsman
Space_Potato wrote:If Grey Knights get a new release, my orks will be put on hold, and they will be many celebratory crotch-thrusts.
Yes, many, many crotch-thrusts.
29070
Post by: Turalon
Well at my local GW they pulled all the WH and DH off of the shelves last week and said that they were about to be redone.
I jokingly asked if these lists were going to disappear altogether and got no straight response.
Hopefully the black shirt didn't want to tip his hat to what was going to happen. But cancelation would be terrible.
18009
Post by: rogueeyes
Overall a grey knights army right now is not expensive. Get 2 land raiders, 2-3 squads of PAGKs and a squad of terminators. Add in a Dreadnought and there you go.
Also there have been rumors of a storm raven and it's a rumor to be coming out with grey knights. Whether or not there are a lot of grey knights does not matter since this model is also applicable to blood angels players. There has been a lot more grounding for that rumor than for plastic stormtroopers - which is also flying around. The problem is that no one knows what role the inquisition will play in the GK codex.
Flat out saying a rumor is not true and has no basis doesn't do much good when the counter arguments are giving proof of why it is plausible. If you have concrete evidence that it is not coming out then that would be great but rumors are based upon what is likely to happen - thus them being rumors.
What we know:
-Grey Knights are being redone
-PAGKs are most likely getting plastic models
-GKTs are most liklely getting plastic models
-Storm Raven is rumored to be included in the codex and a possible first wave model/second wave Blood angels model
-Lots of ignore invulnerable saves
-Possible rule to ignore instant death with force weapon
-Central focus on grey knights
-Possible Jetbike character
-Landspeeder type fast attack vehicle
Search out posts from Deamon Primach Aldermeach and Stickymonkey on warseer. Also, check out the heresy-online thread.
Right now everything is up in the air and no one knows what is coming for sure besides spearhead in June.
25700
Post by: Space_Potato
bhsman wrote:Space_Potato wrote:If Grey Knights get a new release, my orks will be put on hold, and they will be many celebratory crotch-thrusts.
Yes, many, many crotch-thrusts.
Thrusts for everyone!!
S_P
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Post by: Kroothawk
Here another, unconfirmed rumour from Warseer:
TeDasCuen from Spain got the info from his local GW shop, that there will be a pdf of the WH Codex online next month. This was cryptically announced by an official GW email:
(05-08-2009) GW Spain email response:
The Codex is not available, has been discontinued from our usual range of products. You can still play and is legal, but unfortunately we have no units in stock. Anyway, hope to hang soon on our website.
Possible that this is a Spanish version only, but there is hope for an English version as well.
Warseer thread: http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=258430
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
One hopes, at a minimum, that the GK Codex at least provides a picture of the StormRaven...
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Post by: Uriels_Flame
My Double D. Looks like you've been channel surfing...
5421
Post by: JohnHwangDD
Uriels_Flame wrote:My Double D. Looks like you've been channel surfing...
And you know this in what way? 
17901
Post by: Vhalyar
Brother SRM wrote:bhsman wrote:Well, while we're on the first page we might as well get this linked. Interesting if only from the fact that it compiles GW responses on the Inquisition via email and calling them directly.
To anyone who hasn't read that link, go read it now. Lots of somewhat grounded rumor and speculation going on.
It's also worthwhile to browse through the last couple of pages too, since the OP hasn't been updating much lately and so there's a lot more of content.
Hopefully if a codex is supposed to come out in August, GW will have the announcement ready by June.
25700
Post by: Space_Potato
June!?
Ohmygodohmygodohmygod!!
THERE'S JUST NOT ENOUGH TIME TO GET READY!!
S_P
8815
Post by: Archonate
Brother SRM wrote:To anyone who hasn't read that link, go read it now. Lots of somewhat grounded rumor and speculation going on.
Agreed. It looks like a lot of " GK will be next if we say so enough times."
On the other hand, removing models from stores is a big indicator. This is always what happens before a new release. Always.
However, DE were removed from shelves long ago due to some shenanigans involving shelf-space allotment. It's possible (though unlikely) that they are removing GKs to make room for DE... Oooohh that would be a wonderful, wonderful surprise.
"Oooo look at us! We're pulling GK from the shelves! You know what that means!... NEW Dark Eldar!!!"
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Post by: TheUnforgiven
My friend owns an LGS near where I live..yes I know that sounds 'cliche'..
From what is told to him by a GW rep'(they were discussing Spearheads' arrival) is that Inquisition codex is up for the month of August but Sisters won't be in it. Other news is that Dark Eldar is scheduled for Christmas this year.
Lets pass the salt on this. He's a good friend of mine and I doubt he'd lie about this BUT since 'GW informed' him..yeah..you get my meaning...
thats' my 'two salts'...
18427
Post by: radiohazard
Archonate wrote:Brother SRM wrote:To anyone who hasn't read that link, go read it now. Lots of somewhat grounded rumor and speculation going on.
Agreed. It looks like a lot of " GK will be next if we say so enough times."
On the other hand, removing models from stores is a big indicator. This is always what happens before a new release. Always.
However, DE were removed from shelves long ago due to some shenanigans involving shelf-space allotment. It's possible (though unlikely) that they are removing GKs to make room for DE... Oooohh that would be a wonderful, wonderful surprise.
"Oooo look at us! We're pulling GK from the shelves! You know what that means!... NEW Dark Eldar!!!"
I hate to say it, but looks like DE have been put back again and that here comes another Imperial Army.
18072
Post by: TBD
TheUnforgiven wrote:Inquisition codex is up for the month of August but Sisters won't be in it. Other news is that Dark Eldar is scheduled for Christmas this year.
Lets pass the salt on this. He's a good friend of mine and I doubt he'd lie about this BUT since 'GW informed' him..yeah..you get my meaning...
thats' my 'two salts'...
Despite the salt for anything unconfirmed by GW itself, this does make a lot of sense.
Grey Knights & Dark Eldar this year, in whatever order.
The two releases I expect after that, for the first half of 2011, are Necrons & Black Templars, in no particular order.
Although you never know of course, Eldar and Dark Angels are too recent to be re-released anytime soon. Tau should be updated before them. But yeah, should have would have doesn't mean anything.
Sisters of Battle, well I really don't know. I have always understood this was/is 40K's worst selling army, so why would GW hava any reason to update them before all of the others mentioned. The $$$ ultimately determines GW's decisions. My (irrelevant) guess would be that there will be no new Sisters before 2012 at the earliest, if ever at all.
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Post by: Kanluwen
TBD wrote:
Although you never know of course, Eldar and Dark Angels are too recent to be re-released anytime soon. Tau should be updated before them. But yeah, should have would have doesn't mean anything.
Eldar codex is in a fairly decent place, as is Tau. Dark Angels has some glaring issues that can be fixed in a manner of moments in a word processor and shipped off to the printer.
Admittedly, all three of these codexes have that issue. Copy/paste over the XV9 Hazard suits from IA: Apocalypse for the Tau, release a plastic kit of Pathfinders, a plastic kit based off the XV-89 Crisis Suits from FW, plasticize the XV9s and bam. That's a whole new release wave for the Tau, with very little in the way of actual work done.
Eldar I'm not too up on other than the Eldar players locally not really being too gripy about their 'dex.
Dark Angels...well. Storm Shields to 4++ v. shooting AND close combat(as per Codex) as a start, then Scouts as Troops with option for Land Speeder Storm(or Dark Angels having 'elite' worthy Scouts), Deathwing Terminators able to actually up their squad size to 10(why they can't, I'll never know) and able to take dedicated transports alongside of the option to make the Deathwing unit "Inner Circle" and have them equipped with Relic Blades and Storm Shields would be an interesting 'theme' unit(Crusaders? Seneschals? Paladins? something knightly named for that one), Belial being worded as most characters are now, with the option for his Sword of office being for either hand, but only takable once--and the option to have an upped "Storm Shield" alongside of it, Dreadnoughts taken in conjunction with Deathwing forces being able to Deep Strike with the Terminators would be -amazing- but not 100% necessary are all I can really think of in regards to rules right now.
A Belial model wouldn't go unloved, or a sprue of hooded heads intended exclusively to be used with Terminator Armor, alongside of a sprue of Relic Blades with Terminator arms and more ornate/knightly Terminator Storm Shields.
Sisters of Battle, well I really don't know. I have always understood this was/is 40K's worst selling army, so why would GW have any reason to update them before all of the others mentioned. The $$$ ultimately determines GW's decisions. My (irrelevant) guess would be that there will be no new Sisters before 2012 at the earliest, if ever at all.
Sisters are the new Squats, in my opinion.
People insist that they're an incredibly popular army that sell incredibly well, and would have new players flocking to them in droves abandoning every other army out there--if only they were released!.
1478
Post by: warboss
Kanluwen wrote:Admittedly, all three of these codexes have that issue. Copy/paste over the XV9 Hazard suits from IA: Apocalypse for the Tau, release a plastic kit of Pathfinders, a plastic kit based off the XV-89 Crisis Suits from FW, plasticize the XV9s and bam. That's a whole new release wave for the Tau, with very little in the way of actual work done.
while what you're suggesting is nice, it isn't "very little" work converting all that to plastic. also, tau are technically on their second codex but there is a catch. the tau empire codex was a half assed update to the original tau one with very little flavor added. most of the tau players i've talked to in person would rather wait longer but have GW come up with a REAL codex revision instead of the half hearted one you're proposing since we've already been down that road. more fluff, an update to the story line, special characters that are *gasp* actually worth taking, ways to change the force org, wargear that actually works in 4th edition, and a suit portable blast weapon would sure be nice. oh, and crisis suits that don't have 80 year old woman ankles that break in a stiff wind. the xv89 FW models still have that problem.
722
Post by: Kanluwen
Tau and Imperial Guard, in my opinion, are two that have real issues whenever you try to design special characters.
You can't have overpowered superclosecombatcharacters since y'know...they're shooting oriented, and it'd fill a gap of vulnerability.
26845
Post by: Azezel
The idea that Sisters and Codex: WH were removed from sale in early 2010 - and won't get an update until 2012 seems strange.
However, the idea that they won't get an update until mid 2011 is not very much better... There are legends about an update (Plastic sisters, some sort of model with twin cats-o-nine-tails, and some sort of IC with a storm bolter on her wrist like a GK...) - but serriously? 18 months from removal of old codex to release of new one?
The one thing everyone agrees on is that there will be no sisters in the Grey Knight codex - whatever form that takes.
Yes, I am starting to wonder if I should find a Tyranid-proof dustjacket for my current codex.
17155
Post by: bhsman
radiohazard wrote:I hate to say it, but looks like DE have been put back again and that here comes another Imperial Army.
I can't be too upset, especially not when a friend of mine is winning at 'Ard Boyz today with Dark Eldar and there's not a Daemonhunters list in sight. 
22328
Post by: Deep Throat
TheUnforgiven wrote:My friend owns an LGS near where I live..yes I know that sounds 'cliche'..
From what is told to him by a GW rep'(they were discussing Spearheads' arrival) is that Inquisition codex is up for the month of August but Sisters won't be in it. Other news is that Dark Eldar is scheduled for Christmas this year.
Lets pass the salt on this. He's a good friend of mine and I doubt he'd lie about this BUT since 'GW informed' him..yeah..you get my meaning...
thats' my 'two salts'...
My patience would wear out a lot if Sisters aren't in the new Inquisition Codex. I'll be fine as long as all the current models stay available online. If not I guess the only other option I'd have would be the upcoming Dark Eldar.
27673
Post by: Thamor
I was in the GW store close to me yesterday and my black shirt asked why i moved from Gk's to Blood angels, i said that i was sick of the metal models he told me to hold onto my models and not to sell them as something will be happening to them very soon. Unfortunatly i couldnt get anything else out of him.
23960
Post by: Gargskull
It is looking almost certain now that GK are next after Fantasy, the rumour mill has swung very firmly back in their favour after a brief flirtation with Dark Eldar info.
18427
Post by: radiohazard
bhsman wrote:radiohazard wrote:I hate to say it, but looks like DE have been put back again and that here comes another Imperial Army.
I can't be too upset, especially not when a friend of mine is winning at 'Ard Boyz today with Dark Eldar and there's not a Daemonhunters list in sight.
DE are still very competitive and tbh have been for a long time. It just took the right kind of build. Thamor wrote:I was in the GW store close to me yesterday and my black shirt asked why i moved from Gk's to Blood angels, i said that i was sick of the metal models he told me to hold onto my models and not to sell them as something will be happening to them very soon. Unfortunatly i couldnt get anything else out of him.
I had a GW guy today ask me - "why don't you collect GK, they're a good army you know". Very subtle Gargskull wrote:It is looking almost certain now that GK are next after Fantasy, the rumour mill has swung very firmly back in their favour after a brief flirtation with Dark Eldar info.
Unfortunately, I agree with you. My sources of info have totally dried up on DE, but are giving me ubsurd amounts of GK info. At least after GK we have very few Imperial Armies left to codex. Only Xenos and Heretics from here on in. BTW - I read somewhere on here about Chaos in 2012. Someone laughed it off. That is actually a very reasonable release time for them, regardless of the apocalyptic undertones of that year. I'd put money on it now for Chaos in 2012.
10093
Post by: Sidstyler
I kinda hope Chaos comes in 2012 if for no other reason than the plethora of bad jokes it will generate.
As for DE being pushed back again:
That, combined with the incoming price hike ( again) and no Tau codex or models in sight either, means I'm taking the rest of the year off from GW. A year which I'm officially dubbing "Year of the Imperium"...which is actually every year, but moreso this one than any other.
722
Post by: Kanluwen
We don't -know- Dark Eldar have been pushed back.
5421
Post by: JohnHwangDD
Kanluwen wrote:Sisters are the new Squats, in my opinion.
FWIW, roughly half of my playgroup owns at least minimal Sisters armies, self included. One owns a rather sizable force, probably around 4k pts.
Kanluwen wrote:We don't -know- Dark Eldar have been pushed back.
We never knew DE were even on the schedule...
722
Post by: Kanluwen
I'm very disturbed seeing ork smilies next to a clearly wet Asian female.
Back on topic:
I've never seen a Sisters army in my local group. Tons of 'Nids, from the prior Codex(including one guy who can field -three- separate 5k forces), Tau, and Eldar.
Maybe it's just you crazy West Coasters
123
Post by: Alpharius
Kanluwen wrote:We don't -know- Dark Eldar have been pushed back.
Exactly!
We don't KNOW anything yet!!!
4884
Post by: Therion
We never knew DE were even on the schedule...
Exactly!
We don't KNOW anything yet!!!
Well we do know that Dark Eldar are being released this fall with 12 new plastic boxes. Everyone who say otherwise are in denial and should stop embarassing themselves with cries of salt. I was englightened a week or two ago right here at Dakka Dakka by the moderators and a few other people EDITED BY WAAAGH_GONADS- Do not dispariage other users. I declare a holy war on all infidels who try to claim otherwise.
8815
Post by: Archonate
Sidstyler wrote:That, combined with the incoming price hike (again) and no Tau codex or models in sight either, means I'm taking the rest of the year off from GW. A year which I'm officially dubbing "Year of the Imperium"...which is actually every year, but moreso this one than any other.
Yup. I'm tired of GW pushing a bunch of crap on me that I don't care about. I think last year, even SM players started saying "ok we get it GW, you love SMs... But could you please give us something to fight? We're kinda getting sick of all these SM releases..."
Alpharius wrote:Kanluwen wrote:We don't -know- Dark Eldar have been pushed back.
Exactly!
We don't KNOW anything yet!!!
We know GW well enough to know they'd never put SMs behind DE. GK SMs being a niche army. DE being much more universally anticipated. They'll still release GKs first, just for being SMs.
22328
Post by: Deep Throat
I agree with the above post. Space Marines are cool and all but I'm sick of all these new renditions. The various chapters are cool but to me it's all just SMs, the trademark army of the game that we all see everywhere. I'd much rather see a revival of an old codex than an all-new one on such a common army. I wanna see a new Sisters codex not only because it's what I play, but that they don't even have a 5e update yet. Idk what's likely to happen but if they do become the new squats as some have said, I'll either play DE or not at all. I've read of Sisters being the worst selling army but regardless a new codex for them and plastic models could increase the sales. Also, it'd be a lot more refreshing than yet another SM repetition.
3567
Post by: usernamesareannoying
no, you only get one save... wait what...? sorry, got confused after i noticed DD's new avatar... 
8815
Post by: Archonate
@Deep Throat:
Well DE and SoB stand as a testament to the fact that just because an army doesn't sell very well, doesn't mean the concept behind it has no appeal. It only means that GW did a piss-poor job with delivering and supporting the army. That is easily rectified. And doing so results in the same army selling incredibly well. But it requires GW prying its tongue from the lumen of the Space Marine rectum... And therein lies the problem. Only with great difficulty, and much kicking and screaming will they ever occasionally do that. And even then, they'll return to it asap.
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Post by: bhsman
radiohazard wrote:DE are still very competitive and tbh have been for a long time. It just took the right kind of build.
You won't find me disagreeing, my point is that between the two, GK/=I= 'need' it a bit more. Not to say Dark Eldar doesn't, but if it came down to it Daemonhunters are routinely found at the bottom of the competitive totem pole.
Kanluwen wrote:I'm very disturbed seeing ork smilies next to a clearly wet Asian female.
What do you mean, her hair looks perfectly dr-oh! 
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
Therion wrote:
We never knew DE were even on the schedule...
Exactly!
We don't KNOW anything yet!!!
Well we do know that Dark Eldar are being released this fall with 12 new plastic boxes.
OK, I missed it.
Where's the GW announcement giving an actual release date?
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Post by: Sarigar
GW probably opted to put the GK out first if it will include the Stormraven kit. Therefore, they could help reignite interest in the BA and have two popular selling armies with only one new codex release.
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Post by: Vhalyar
Half the armies are imperial... half the releases are... imperial?! My mind is blooooooooooown! Please look up the release order of the codices starting with 3rd ed all the way to the present. Surprise! It's loaded with imperial releases exactly like it's been with 5th ed, often in an alternating pattern since GW does try to balance things.
But yes, please tell us where GW has said that Dark Eldar were coming out next with 12 plastic kits. I'd love to hear it; at least then the GK/ DE debate would be over. I'm looking forward to your next post!
This is one of the many reasons why GW doesn't tell you which army is coming next until it's ready to be rolled out; because schedules can and will change. Obviously it has worked out in their favor, because it does seem that the schedule was up in the air until recently. Or perhaps it still is since GW has not said anything. There's no proof of any damn thing.
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Post by: Archonate
Vhalyar wrote:Half the armies are imperial... half the releases are... imperial?!
You're half right.
About half of the releases are imperial.
But half the armies???
Imperial armies are: Space Marines, Imperial Guard, and Sisters of Battle.
Meanwhile, the non-imperial armies are: Eldar, Orks, Tau, Necrons, Dark Eldar, Tyranids and Chaos.
You appear to have deduced that 3=7.
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Post by: Vhalyar
Space Marines, Blood Angels, Space Wolves, Black Templar, Dark Angels, Daemonhunters, Witchhunters, Imperial Guard.
Chaos Daemons, Chaos Space Marines, Tau, Eldar, Tyranids, Orks, Necrons, Dark Eldar.
8 vs 8... or half imperial! Egads, I was right!
They each have a codex, that makes them individual armies. This is also how GW identifies them.
So feel free to invent your own personal definition of 'army', but keep in mind that it's not how GW sees it; on top of making you look like a nitpicking buffoon (and failing at it!)
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Post by: Archonate
Your first 6 are redundant. Otherwise we have to exhaustively include every Craftworld, Kabal, Klan, Sept, Hive Fleet, Tomb World and Chaos God.
Every race has its sub-divisions, but we don't call them different armies. They each have a codex, that makes them individual armies. This is also how GW identifies them.
I think that's more how you identify them. GW seems quite aware that SMs are SMs. They've simply chosen to give nearly half of their attention to that one army.
At various times I've seen several members of this forum agree that the rules differences between SM codices are so negligible that GW could have lumped them all into one codex, separating each with a page of its own defining special rules, and everyone would have been happier. Irrelevant since that unfortunately won't happen. But it reinforces my point that it's ridiculous to point at a Blood Angels army and say "Those aren't Space Marines! Those are Blood Angels!" (I'm not kidding by the way. Some people really are that dumb...  )
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Post by: Vhalyar
Ah, I get it. You're one of those.
Craftworlds don't have individual codices. You've got Eldar.
Kabals don't have their own individual codices. You've got Dark Eldar. (Oh wait, space marine variants are moot but Eldar/Dark Eldar are not? You rascal! )
Klans don't have their own individual codices. You've got Orks.
Septs don't have their own individual codices. You've got Tau.
Hive Fleets don't have their own individual codices. You've got Tyranids.
Tomb Worlds don't have their own individual codices. You've got Necrons.
Chaos Gods don't have their own individual codices. You've got... oh, you do have Chaos Daemons AND Chaos Space Marines.
But Blood Angels, Space Wolves, Dark Angels, Black Templar and Daemonhunters do have their own books.
But you are right that is totally not how GW sees the situation, you little snowflake, you. I mean, when I click on the Warhammer 40,000 Armies tab I'm not presented with Blood Angels or Space Wolves as valid army choices; only Space Marines. Oh wait...
I get, you don't like space marine variants. You want your precious Xenos to get their updated rules and new models. Unfortunately for you the game is defined by GW. So disagree all you want but it won't make it right or true unless GW says so. That means Blood Angels are very much an army on the same level as Orks and every single other codex. Boohoo for you I guess, but that makes it 8 imperial and 8 non-imperial. Or, as I was saying before all the fanwanking, half the armies imperial.
Still, that was pretty amusing.
Edit: Did a "Insert Marine Variant" kick your puppy or something?
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Post by: Klawz
Vhalyar wrote:Did a "Insert Marine Variant" kick your puppy or something?
Sigged!
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Post by: Just Dave
Vhalyar, that was both very well played and funny, you're not even putting your head up Games-Workshops rectum, just (largely) speaking the truth, well played.
Even so, other than that they're almost certainly being released soon, do we have any other information regarding the inquisition, such as whether it will include both Grey Knights and Sisters or just the one?
(I'm suspecting it'll be both, but some have claimed otherwise.)
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Post by: Therion
OK, I missed it.
Where's the GW announcement giving an actual release date?
Nowhere but I've been told that they don't need to because at this point it's been confirmed by so many authoritative posters that asking for credible proof is a childish act of denial. I'm really looking forward to the entirely re-sculpted Dark Eldar line, with new models available right off the bat for every unit in the new codex that is being released this September or October. It'll be great.
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Post by: TBD
Archonate wrote:Well DE and SoB stand as a testament to the fact that just because an army doesn't sell very well, doesn't mean the concept behind it has no appeal. It only means that GW did a piss-poor job with delivering and supporting the army.
I think that is an assumption and not an actual fact. It is like the chicken and the egg: do DE and SoB lack support because they are least liked, or are they least liked because they are least supported?
For DE I tend to think the latter (although I am not sure where they are on the 'liked/unliked' list), and for SoB the former, but who am I. SoB being the least selling army was already supposedly true in the years after their codex was released.
GW could support an army like their lives depend on it, but if customers like different stuff better then that army still sells less and GW will logically focus on the other stuff instead.
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Post by: bhsman
So, Daemons are going to be out with new plastics in August; anything think this just confirms GK even further?
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Post by: Deep Throat
@Archonate
Thanks, your post about lack of support makes sense. I was relieved this morning to hear of the new Chaos Daemons models, at least that's something non-Imperial and a pretty cool army IMO. I'm just putting hope in the rumor of SoB getting updated next year.
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Post by: Vhalyar
Glad some people had fun 
But back on topic, this Daemons wave goes with the idea that GK are coming next. At the very least, good timing.
Since the August slot is for these newly announced models, that means we're only getting 3 codices this year (October). So either GK or DE is getting booted to 2011.
By the way Therion, please give us a link to these 12 plastic kits at release/every unit in the codex getting a model right off the bat instead of calling everyone childish. If anything, the rumor posters have said that the models would come out in waves; you'll still need some of the old models if you want every unit in the codex when it's release, until the waves catch up.
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Post by: Therion
Vhalyar wrote:By the way Therion, please give us a link to these 12 plastic kits at release/every unit in the codex getting a model right off the bat instead of calling everyone childish. If anything, the rumor posters have said that the models would come out in waves
Allright then, here's some sources from the rumour thread:
Reecius wrote:And fellas, the Dark Eldar are coming, for real this time.
Count on it.
yakface wrote:
Would you believe me if I told you that you'll probably want to throw away all your existing models when you see the new ones? I'm guessing you won't believe me, but listen to me now and believe me later...get the wastebasket (aka Ebay account) ready.
I tried to be realistic and posted:
Therion wrote:The saddest thing is that realistically how many new models can they release in one go? How many new models have the recent new armies got? Let's assume Jes has sculpted the new Warrior plastic box, a plastic box that allows you to make a Ravager and/or Raider, new metal Incubi and three to four HQ/special characters. What else can we realistically expect? New plastic Wyches? Bikes? Hellions? Talos? What about the new units that we're being promised, especially as every single new codex has had plenty of them? Are they getting models at all? Unlikely.
Seriously, the Dark Eldar line has nothing but awful and/or outdated models and they all have to be replaced and this won't happen anytime soon because there's simply too much stuff to do. We'll get the most important two plastic boxes, some metals, and the rest will keep waiting for many more years. Basically, everyone will convert everything from the new Warrior kit.
I was illuminated and told that the entire range will be released in one wave (By the way GW has no 'wave' system in place anymore and haven't had in a long time. They release stuff whenever they like to whatever army they like):
BrassScorpion wrote:All the chatter regarding Dark Eldar has indicated that the entire range is being revised and that no existing models will be retained. That is an exception to the norm these days where most ranges have some existing models that are retained while only some are revised for a new release. So the answer to the question if rumors are true is "all of them".
I was foolish and tried to reason:
Therion wrote:That simply cannot and won't be the case. Expecting GW to release five or six new plastic boxes and five or six new metal units plus heroes plus all the possible new vehicles and/or units, all in one go, is simply delusional, as might be the whole idea of DE getting released at all. That would be the biggest single army release they've probably ever done and let's be honest half of the people don't even remember Dark Eldar exist anymore not to mention that there would be a sufficiently large fanbase ready to buy all those new kits.
I was shot down:
generalgrog wrote:Ever heard of Tau? or Ogre Kingdoms?
They released many new kits as new armies, and you really have to look at Dark Eldar as a "new" army release since it's going to be a reboot.
Erasoketa wrote:Did I mention Wood Elves?
Mannahnin wrote:I expect this will be more akin to the Wood Elf release, which have 17 metal characters, 8 metal unit kits, and 3 plastic unit kits. Except that given their more recent production tech, and the vehicles, there'll probably be more plastic, and less metal
Fateweaver wrote:Pretty sure that if the rumors are true about DE codex being "at the printers" (and some solid sources are saying as much) it will come out.
Would be asinine, even for GW, to print a run of codeciies spending 1,000's of pounds, and if it's true about the minis being done, 100's of 1,000's more pounds on production to just be like......."haha, fooled you guys. No DE."
Therion I think needs his morning coffee.
As was mentioned earlier WE's had most, if not all, of their range released within a couple of months. What's to say GW won't do the same for DE?
Mannahnin wrote:Therion, sorry, but you are off base this time. You’ve lost perspective and appear to no longer be able to distinguish the nonsense and wishlisting from the real information which has slowly leaked out. All dependable rumors indicate that Jes has been personally and gradually working on these kits between all his other duties, probably for more than five years. It’s dead certain that some folks have seen some of the new figs, but GW’s been tightfisted and people are being cautious. With Jes working on the figs over a long period, the logistical hurdle of GW’s sculpting schedule / what their guys are busy with is not really a factor.
Recent (within the last couple of weeks) reliable word was that the codex was at the printer’s.
Kroothawk wrote:Just because some people are uncertain about this:
1.) It is confirmed that the whole range of DE miniatures will get new models.
2.) Jes was sculpting for the last 3 years or so to achieve this. He got all the time he needed, so this is not comparable to the BA release.
3.) Most models are ready, the Codex at the printers.
Deris87 wrote:-There will be a Dark Avatar of Khaine, as well as Harlequins in the new dex.
H.B.M.C. wrote:Therion is Therion in NuHwang - A Denier's Tale!
Waaagh_Gonads wrote:Give it another month and the studio will start leaking pics....
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/04/30 10:19:00
I was really happy to hear that because it means the studio will leak pics of the new Dark Eldar in just about two weeks from today!
yakface wrote:A full-time sculptor on the books working away for years and years with nothing much at all to show for his work...
...If only we could figure out what he has possibly been working on...
Oh wait, he slipped and TOLD everyone on an official company podcast.
But yeah, I'm sure it is completely and utterly impossible for the entire Dark Eldar line to be revised.
H.B.M.C. wrote:Salt! SAAAAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLTTTTTT!!!!!!!!!
As a conclusion, the entire Dark Eldar range is being released this fall, either in September or October and we can throw away all of our existing new models because they will all have new models by then. We'll also get some new units with new models like the Dark Avatar. GW is releasing pictures of the new Dark Eldar by the end of May. The models are ready and the printers have been printing the new Codex for a while already. Resistance is futile. Believe it.
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
Therion wrote:As a conclusion, the entire Dark Eldar range is being released this fall, either in September or October and we can throw away all of our existing new models because they will all have new models by then. We'll also get some new units with new models like the Dark Avatar. GW is releasing pictures of the new Dark Eldar by the end of May. The models are ready and the printers have been printing the new Codex for a while already.
Really? I'll believe it when I see it.
2 weeks.
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Post by: Vhalyar
Alright, that's a lot of quotes; plenty of unrelated ones too.
But what I see is tons of random posters making assertions based on, well, nothing, and then these being taken as facts.
Let me just quote Harry, who's more reliable than nearly every other person you quoted.
07-04-2010
Harry wrote:Phew. OK in that case we are all set.
Dark Eldar are coming.
Phil Kelly has completed the book.
The whole range is NOT done yet but the first wave IS done.
01-05-2010
Harry wrote:Your kidding ... thats what were best at.
I said it on the other thread ... I shall say it here.
The first Wave of models are done.
They are coming.
And the best should always be kept for the last, eh?
10-03-2010
Harry wrote:Souleater wrote:The question in my mind is if GW are going to release DE in waves as is the current model or in one massive pre-xmas season spluge (which is against their current MO).
They will come in waves as in the current model.
Representatives of GW have said repeatedly they will continue to make metal models.
This release will be no different. A mix of plastic and metal.
02-03-2010
Harry wrote:Right.
The entire range is not redone .... Yet.
It comes in waves.
See, I think I'll go with Harry's word on this one. And just like JohnHwangDD said, 2 weeks. Let's see how it turns out.
Now I look like some kind of quote warrior, oh god.
Edit: On top of that releasing everything in one go right at the start would be a rather stupid business move and a wasted commercial opportunity. Note that this is from the mindset of GW, certainly not what would be best from the POV of the players. I'm not making excuses for GW here, don't get me wrong.
Edit 2: I'll quote-warrior a bit more. Here's what Gonads said:
Waaagh_Gonads wrote:I'd say pics will appear Juneish 2 issues prior to their release in August.
So his source told him August? That kind of damages everything Gonads has said, unfortunately.
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Post by: Therion
Edit: On top of that releasing everything in one go right at the start would be a rather stupid business move and a wasted commercial opportunity
Naturally. I argued against the entire Dark Eldar line being released in one go. Of course they'll re-do the entire line and release it in waves. That can be said of any army in 40K. Fact just is that there might be years between the waves in the worst case, which was my point all along. They get a couple boxes whenever they come and if you want to get a legal army right away you'll convert most of your stuff from the Warrior box or other models from the initial release. Noone will be told which models are being released in which wave and when if ever it will be coming. I was then assailed by more than ten people, three of them being moderators, like I quoted. Now we'll wait.
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Post by: Redemption
Quotal Kombat! Round one! Fight!
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Post by: Vhalyar
Wait what? First you call everyone doubting a day 1 release of the full model range childish, now you say that "of course it'll be done in waves!"?
Actually, I suggest we drop this. It's not the topic at all and we'll just end up getting it closed.
Based on what's happened recently, here's my gut feeling about the next codex:
- There will only be one more codex this year (total of 3)
- The next codex will be out in October
- That codex will be either pure Grey Knights or Grey Knights and GK-centric Inquisition.
- The Daemons are a good way to build up some interest in chaos (and subsequently the absolute chaos-murdering army)
- This correlates with what certain rumors have been saying since the Vegas meeting ( GK this year, DE next year)
So what's everyone's take on this year's remaining codex/codices?
Edit: pfft, I don't see this anywhere in your posts Therion!
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Post by: Therion
Vhalyar wrote:Wait what? First you call everyone doubting a day 1 release of the full model range childish, now you say that "of course it'll be done in waves!"?
I was being sarcastic. If you go and read the thread in question or even the quotes that I selected here for your reading pleasure, you'll see what I mean.
So what's everyone's take on this year's remaining codex/codices?
I don't know but GW is being so ridiculously cryptic about all of their products right now that it seems to be anyone's guess. A lot of Dakka regulars seem to have fallen hard to the latest DE rumour splash and taken it as fact and the next few months or even weeks will show whether they'll regret it or not
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Post by: Terminus
Just Dave wrote:Vhalyar, that was both very well played and funny, you're not even putting your head up Games-Workshops rectum, just (largely) speaking the truth, well played.
Even so, other than that they're almost certainly being released soon, do we have any other information regarding the inquisition, such as whether it will include both Grey Knights and Sisters or just the one?
(I'm suspecting it'll be both, but some have claimed otherwise.)
There are some inconsistencies between all the various rumors we've received in the last few months, but they are 100% consistent on one fact in particular: that Sisters of Battle will NOT be included.
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Post by: Sidstyler
That's unfortunate...I really like the Sisters models and general aesthetic, the worst thing about them is the price.
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Post by: Terminus
Oh me too, but on the plus side, their current list is actually pretty competitive (just boring, much like Dark Angels), and there is nothing stopping you from using the models to represent a Space Marines force (you just can't have terminators).
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Post by: Xeno Xod
Therion wrote:I was being sarcastic. If you go and read the thread in question or even the quotes that I selected here for your reading pleasure, you'll see what I mean.
I found the sarcasm quite easy to pick up on and highly amusing, but maybe that is because I have been waiting for a new Dark Eldar codex for over a decade.
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Post by: Darth Badguy
Redemption wrote:Quotal Kombat! Round one! Fight!
^
(awesome)
I am not a big name fan or a respected moderator, but it seems to me as if GW may have shuffled their release schedule after giving some people the inside scoop, and now people who were not the informed parties are arguing over second-hand knowledge that may or may not be current. I've always wanted to build a dark eldar army, so I'd love for them to be next, but it's certainly possible that GW may have suddenly decided that a specialist power armor codex could be a bigger success, a less costly release, or any one of a thousand (legitimate or ridiculous) financial deductions.
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
Sidstyler wrote:That's unfortunate...
I really like the Sisters models and general aesthetic, the worst thing about them is the price.
GW is killing the WH/ SoB Codex until the new SoB book? If DH/ GK gets redone, WH should still be valid.
Did SoB actually go up with the next increase?
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Post by: Terminus
They weren't on the UK list of price increases, though I'm not sure if the US list is any different. Although they seem to be available online, the store won't actually let me check out and finalize the order.
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Post by: Archonate
Vhalyar wrote:Ah, I get it. You're one of those.
Craftworlds don't have individual codices. You've got Eldar.
Kabals don't have their own individual codices. You've got Dark Eldar. (Oh wait, space marine variants are moot but Eldar/Dark Eldar are not? You rascal! )
Klans don't have their own individual codices. You've got Orks.
Septs don't have their own individual codices. You've got Tau.
Hive Fleets don't have their own individual codices. You've got Tyranids.
Tomb Worlds don't have their own individual codices. You've got Necrons.
Chaos Gods don't have their own individual codices. You've got... oh, you do have Chaos Daemons AND Chaos Space Marines.
But Blood Angels, Space Wolves, Dark Angels, Black Templar and Daemonhunters do have their own books.
But you are right that is totally not how GW sees the situation, you little snowflake, you. I mean, when I click on the Warhammer 40,000 Armies tab I'm not presented with Blood Angels or Space Wolves as valid army choices; only Space Marines. Oh wait...
I get, you don't like space marine variants. You want your precious Xenos to get their updated rules and new models. Unfortunately for you the game is defined by GW. So disagree all you want but it won't make it right or true unless GW says so. That means Blood Angels are very much an army on the same level as Orks and every single other codex. Boohoo for you I guess, but that makes it 8 imperial and 8 non-imperial. Or, as I was saying before all the fanwanking, half the armies imperial.
Still, that was pretty amusing.
Edit: Did a "Insert Marine Variant" kick your puppy or something?
I'm going to assume that putting words in my mouth is your way of casting the point aside and focusing on irrelevant semantics.
I never denied that half the releases are imperial. In fact I agreed with you immediately on that point.
My point was that Blood Angels, Space Wolves, Dark Angels, Black Templars, Demonhunters, etc. can all be accurately classified as Space Marines. This fact seems to have struck a nerve, leaving you confused and angry.
On topic: I agree that GKs are currently one of the most unplayable armies and definitely need an update. Their list, more or less, adds up to over priced marines that die just as easy as cheap marines.
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Post by: Luke_Prowler
Archonate wrote:On topic: I agree that GKs are currently one of the most unplayable armies and definitely need an update. Their list, more or less, adds up to over priced marines that die just as easy as cheap marines.
*headdesk* That's why you use Stormtroopers as filler. DH is not an unplayable army, it only becomes a problem when people try to play pure GKs and they expect it to play like normal space marines.
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Post by: Terminus
Actually, I'm with Vhalyar on this one. As far as GW is concerned, all those armies are NOT Space Marines, but are indeed separate armies. Whatever taxonomic classification you wish to apply to them is largely irrelevant to the topic on hand (that being the spread of releases), otherwise we may as well just lump Craftword and Dark Eldar into one homogenous mass.
So yes, FULLY HALF of the armies are Imperial, so it shouldn't be a huge shocker that half the releases are Imperial. And anyway, 40K is about the Imperium; they are the protagonist.
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Post by: Sidstyler
That's a bit irrelevant though. I don't see why being the protagonist makes it okay for them to focus all of their attention on Imperial releases and throwing xenos players a bone only now and then, my money is just as good as there's, and this is a game after all...the idea is for it to be fair and fun for everyone, not just the "good guys".
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Post by: Vhalyar
Terminus wrote:lump Craftword and Dark Eldar into one homogenous mass.
Well played!
And Sidstyler, this is not just about the Imperium being the protagonists; it's also about the Space Marines armies selling so overwhelmingly more than the others. They don't just have explosive day 1 sales, they have legs and will keep selling well extremely for a long time, unlike non-Marines (with certain exceptions). Like it or not SM are the backbone of 40k and intricately tied with the sales of side products such as books. Honestly I always find it hilarious when people blame GW for this; if you had to blame someone, it would be the fans (are we going to criticize people's tastes now?) and the thousands of kids and their impulse buys. GW is only catering to what the majority wants (and forums most certainly don't represent the majority, don't get fooled).
And let's be frank, these individual SM armies have been around for a while now. They are just as worthy as *Insert Xenos* of having their codex updated. Now someone is going to call me a GW apologist for simply stating the truth, won't I?
Not quite the right topic for this kind of discussion though.
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Post by: Deep Throat
Terminus wrote:Oh me too, but on the plus side, their current list is actually pretty competitive (just boring, much like Dark Angels), and there is nothing stopping you from using the models to represent a Space Marines force (you just can't have terminators).
Good to hear some positive words on Sisters, and didn't know that they could also be reasonably used as Space Marines. I admit I've been worried about the discontinuations though. Can it be assumed that most of the current models (aside from the Repentia and SoB squad boxes) will continue to be available while the army isn't being updated? Only reason I ask is that I've read rumors of more than just these two sets being unavailable.
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Post by: Shabutie
Luke_Prowler wrote:Archonate wrote:On topic: I agree that GKs are currently one of the most unplayable armies and definitely need an update. Their list, more or less, adds up to over priced marines that die just as easy as cheap marines.
*headdesk* That's why you use Stormtroopers as filler. DH is not an unplayable army, it only becomes a problem when people try to play pure GKs and they expect it to play like normal space marines.
I assure you, DH are close enough to unplayable; the fifth edition negates a number of special rules that make the GK worth having, special equipment is left purposeless against the latest Codices, and the points cost alone makes it so that you will be outnumbered several times over, with a force incapable of facing off with the enemy anyways. Stormtroopers fill the gaps only so far. They don't have the gear or the weapons to contend with the tougher monsters, and really lack the abilities to be any more than bullet stops for the Grey Knights.
I, for one, am more excited about an update to the Grey Knights than am about plastics. I just want to be able to play with my favorite army.
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Post by: TheRavenWolf
I don't know much about releases but I'm guessing Grey Knights would probably be round christmas because then they can sell new grey knight stuff, the storm raven and maybe even stormtroopers or something to appeal to 3 armies. Just my thoughts though
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Post by: Bloodhorror
well seeing as there releasing a load of Chaos Daemon Models in Like August time, there gonna have there hands full with Another wave of models to follow suite aren't they :S?
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Post by: Kroothawk
Harry has spoken:
If pressed I would say GK will be early 2011
I posted this somewhere on here back in March maybe the start of April.
Putting the pieces together I have been increasingly sure about this since then.
But dark Eldar ARE released in the autumn.
All hail the Pie man, most trusted rumour source over at Warseer.
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Post by: bhsman
Kroothawk wrote:Harry has spoken:
If pressed I would say GK will be early 2011
I posted this somewhere on here back in March maybe the start of April.
Putting the pieces together I have been increasingly sure about this since then.
But dark Eldar ARE released in the autumn.
All hail the Pie man, most trusted rumour source over at Warseer.
And I say the Pie Man is wrong. 
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Post by: Kroothawk
In what way? DE or GK?
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Post by: bhsman
I don't think we'll have to wait until next year to see the Grey Knights in some form.
EDIT: And I say this not with some GW higher-up whispering in my ear, it's guesswork looking at the recent history of how GW has released army updates and what it looks like now both for Dark Eldar and Grey Knights/Inquisition.
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Post by: physcosamatic
i demand one big huge book of inquisition, BURN THE WITCH, MUTANT AND HERETIC
it would e crazy, you could have greyknights or sob or inq soldiers or even deathwatch!, but gw are not that awesome so expect a cheesy unfluffy sob gk and inq codex releases>.> now thats heresy!!
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Post by: Terminus
Well, GW hasn't done a decent "huge" book since 2nd edition (now THOSE were some codexes!).
With their current business model, I do NOT want a combined Inquisition book, as it means one of two things:
1. The various Ordos are mutually exclusive, so each one is as limited in choice as they are now.
2. The various Ordos can be mixed, and with the usual GW method of having one or two options per FOC slot that just rock out, we'll get terrible amalgam lists of Deathwatch elites and Malleus troops, with Seraphim filling out the fast attack section.
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Post by: Archonate
Vhalyar wrote:And Sidstyler, this is not just about the Imperium being the protagonists; it's also about the Space Marines armies selling so overwhelmingly more than the others. They don't just have explosive day 1 sales, they have legs and will keep selling well extremely for a long time, unlike non-Marines (with certain exceptions).
I think what Sid is saying applies directly to this ^.
How popular an army is should be irrelevant to how much attention from GW that army receives, in a game where balance is so fundamental. Imagine how awesome any given MMORPG would be if one faction was given more than the others, just because it's more popular. There's a reason no other game in existence does this. It is a horrible business model. Game manufacturers strive to give ALL paying customers equal treatment. Except GW. No, for some reason, they are justified and awesome for not doing so...
The question is: Would Space Marine sales really go down if all armies got equal attention?
The answer: SM sales, maybe... 40k sales overall, however, would either remain the same, or go up.
My point: Why try so hard to get SM player money when they could easily have SM and non- SM player money? SMs getting less attention doesn't necessarily mean fewer SM sales... Though I'm sure there are a number of people who might have chosen other armies if SMs weren't so pushed, but that's irrelevant since GW gets their money either way.
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Post by: MeanGreenStompa
Again I read the bs about 'marines are the best selling models cos they are the best, so they deserve the best!'.
Space Marines sell more than anything else because they are a self fulfilling prophecy. GW puts them valiantly murdering everything else on the covers and artwork everywhere. They then produce a comprehensive range for them and maintain such a range with regularly updated codices for not just the vanilla marines, but several variant armies. Whilst all other ranges have suffered from long waits for models for certain choices or vastly overdue updates to old and fugly models or just from a very limited range, Astartes have had a continued heavy investment and therefore enjoy the healthiest returns.
It's. That. Fething. Simple.
GW shrugs and says 'that's where the money is' because that's where they've spent the money in the past. So, books, posters, the big statue outside the GW HQ, now a movie... All about the marines. Not to cater to demand so much as fuel it.
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Post by: physcosamatic
Terminus wrote:Well, GW hasn't done a decent "huge" book since 2nd edition (now THOSE were some codexes!).
With their current business model, I do NOT want a combined Inquisition book, as it means one of two things:
1. The various Ordos are mutually exclusive, so each one is as limited in choice as they are now.
2. The various Ordos can be mixed, and with the usual GW method of having one or two options per FOC slot that just rock out, we'll get terrible amalgam lists of Deathwatch elites and Malleus troops, with Seraphim filling out the fast attack section.
there would be set boundary's, to take sob you have to have a canoness or gk you need daemon hunter inq lord or gk hero or deathwatch require ordo xenos commander ect. but i can see the cheese waves of cheese if they didn't balance it to perfection
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Post by: Kroothawk
Taken from another thread in 40k General http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/quote/0/1585016.page
Form your own opinion on these rumours:
Beerfart wrote:I got this info during a three way discussion with a buddy of mine and a friend of his...who's involved in game design. People will refute these "rumours" and thats cool, take this with a grain of salt if you wish. You Grey Knight fans though, I know you want news and I'm here to tell you that there's hope.
I wasnt really paying attention to the "Inquisition" part. Instead I mainly payed attention to the Grey Knight info. Just a couple of little tidbits though...
-Allies rules are indeed gone. No more mystics for you guard players. In fact...none for anybody.
-Inquisitorial stormtroopers brought in-line with Guard ST's.
-Somehow, assassins cannot be used in Grey Knight armies.
-Inquisitor's psychic powers have been boosted significantly, they're really powerful characters now able to wreak havoc BUT they're pretty easy to kill still...still human w/T3. They're really extreme with the ability to rival some of the Special Characters out there in power but with the survivability of Guardsmen with 4+ invuln's. You can still get terminator armour for them but you TRADE your 4+ invuln for Terminator armour for 2+/5++. Basically, you cannot make a tank out of them. Mystics are GONE BTW. I was surprised at this. Daemonhunter's cannont shoot down any old deepstriking thing anymore.
Now, where I was REALLY interested, and kept the guy talking for a while was with the Grey Knights. I hope I got most of this right, I never wrote any down but the jist of the conversation is here...
-"Shrouding" is now as-per night fighting rules. Infantry only gain effect.
-I wasnt able to get any info on the bonuses against daemons, but the "without number" rules are still there for core units and changed just a little bit. The rule isnt the same but it still represents how Grey Knight daemon/chaos drop sites (yes chaos lesser daemons are included) are normally highly infested and there is indeed a problem that warrents them being there.
-No Changes to Grey Knight Weaponry other than stated below. Incinerators are the same, Psycannons are same except for now they're simply Assault Weapons.
-ALL Grey Knights are able to use their SB's in CC now. They also get their charge bonus.
-Nemesis Weapons on power armoured knights are str 6 still, but now RENDING. Justicar loses his power weapon status and is now just Rending with an add'l attack for his SGT status
-The Generic big commander, Grand Master (but with name change), his Nemesis is not simply a Force Weapon, BUT "Demonic Nemesis" rules state that it can Kill Daemons like a Force Weapon can kill non-EW multi-wound Models.
-Terminator Nemesis weapons are still power weapons, but keep in mind...they can use their stormbolters now in CC.
-Storm Sheilds brought in line with SM codex. Terminators can trade SB's for Sheilds for +5pts. Nemesis' can be traded for T-Hamm for free....wierd.
-Storm Ravens are a Heavy support Choice. StormRavens are able to get Scout somehow, but not in their selection. Maybe another Special Character or some Grand Master skill or peice of Wargear or something allows it. No other Scouting or Infiltration availiable in the army. Deepstriking only.
-Dreadnoughts now an Elite Choice, ONLY elites though. Psychic Upgrade availiable but at two levels, think Epistolary/Codicier. (of course, since every Grey Knight is supposed to be a Psycher)
-LR's, now out of the HS slot, Dedicated only now A-la, blood angels. No rhino's, chimera's or razorbacks for Grey Knights still.
-Terminators are Elite OR HQ Retinue still...same as before. Of course this all enables 3xstormraven/Dreadnought and 2xTermi squads at the same time, but you're paying some steep cost in points.
-In a strange twist, PA Grey Knights in the FA selection slot can now have jump packs. Divine Intervention as well. They can still deepstrike however. Dunno (forgot to ask) if Divine Intervention will apply to deepstriking. It would make sense I suppose...possibly giving you a reason to have a choice between JP's(advantage in Stormraven) or deep strike (advantage to deepstriking below)
-Brother Captain Stern is MUCH like Mephiston. Powerful Psyker, more than normal wounds for a character(either 4or5), Non-IC, T5, 2+/4++, His "RR power" is now a psychic ability turning into a sort of "Warptime" allowing him to RR his hits/wounds/saves/Ld/Ect but with no bonus for the enemy like last time. I suppose thats because it can be nullified now. His price is right around Mephiston level. His "Demonic Nemesis" rules also extend to ANY IC. Basically, his Nemesis can still Slay Eternal Warriors of any type. They're really plugging this Character...he's the "big daddy" in the codex. Sort of a prodigy of Grey Knighthood that even surpasses the Grand Masters in skill.
-"Holocaust". No more "unit" casting for the terminators...only skillful characters can use this one. Can be cast during shooting AND CC if the character is able to throw two powers a turn. Essentially, its an incinerator blast with a 3"+d3 that hits FRIEND AND FOE. AP4, no Cover, No Invuln.
-Sgt Types can be upgraded for psychic abilities too (apparently, they "focus" the squad's psychic abilities like a lens), if they die, no more Phychics for the squad. RR's to hit for unit. This to hit can be for CC OR for shooting. I found out about it when I asked if Purgation squads were still availiable and if they did anything to make them better. He responded with this, five possible weapon upgrades, and the fact that cost went down for the upgrades just a bit to make them more useful. Speaking of that, upgrading incinerators and psycannons sounds like GW realises that you GIVE UP Nemesis weapons for these options...the cost for the weapon trade isnt nearly as much.
-Also, there was something about "Decent of Angels" for deepstriking units. He didnt mention the exact name of the ability, but apparently, Grey Knights are as adept at teleporting as BA's are with Deepstriking JP's.
He talked a little more about how the BA codex was a sort of "test bed" for some abilities that this codex was going to have. They look alot alike but the basic troops here are better...and the point costs reflect it. This army will STILL be very elite and small. But Psychics, characters, and speed with stormravens is "off the chain".
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Post by: Ixquic
Regardless of if those rumors are true I REALLY hope that Inquisitors have EW or aren't IC. I like them being T3 since they are human but really investing a lot of points into something that gets poked by a guard sergeant with a power fist and instakilled is irritating.
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Post by: Kirasu
If any unit needs scout it would be the storm raven.. lol? Usually I can see most rumors being true, but that one is a bit overpowered considering its an assault vehicle
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Post by: bhsman
Interesting if true, though part of me hopes it isn't.
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Post by: Just Dave
So does this mean that Grey Knights are shiny Blood Angels or that Blood Angels are angry Grey Knights?
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
physcosamatic wrote:i demand one big huge book of inquisition, BURN THE WITCH, MUTANT AND HERETIC
Like Chaos used to be in 2E with CSM & Daemons & more? Best of luck in getting GW to rewind the clock... ____ Terminus wrote:With their current business model, I do NOT want a combined Inquisition book,
I'd be OK with a unit of GKTs alongside a unit of DW both backing a pile of Stormies or generic Guard / generic SM. More than that, I don't want. Also, Sisters are Ministorum, not Inquisition, so they *require* separation... ____ physcosamatic wrote:there would be set boundary's, to take sob you have to have a canoness or gk you need daemon hunter inq lord or gk hero or deathwatch require ordo xenos commander ect. but i can see the cheese waves of cheese if they didn't balance it to perfection
There won't be cheese, even if they mix them. It'll just be an unfulffy hodgepodge of random stuff that you can field, simply for the sake of fielding a mix of stuff.
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Post by: Shabutie
Everyone keeps saying the Sisters shouldn't be included in a combined 'dex and I don't understand why. If they weren't working closely with the Witch Hunters to find heresy, what would they do to justify them fighting all the other armies?
I mean, Grey Knights technically aren't Inquisition, they just have the same goals so they work hand-in-hand with each other, much like SoB and WH. I hope that they are in the same codex, so that I can make use of my mixed Sisters/GK force.
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Post by: warboss
Shabutie wrote:Everyone keeps saying the Sisters shouldn't be included in a combined 'dex and I don't understand why. If they weren't working closely with the Witch Hunters to find heresy, what would they do to justify them fighting all the other armies?
I mean, Grey Knights technically aren't Inquisition, they just have the same goals so they work hand-in-hand with each other, much like SoB and WH. I hope that they are in the same codex, so that I can make use of my mixed Sisters/GK force.
because people who play SOB want to feel special and wanted/needed by GW and other players and they do so apparently only with a separate codex. personally, i'd prefer a mega-combined inquisition codex bigger than the current marine one that allows you to field all flavors of the inquisition and their lackeys.
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Post by: Ixquic
No because people who play SOB want to play SOB not a hodge podge of different and totally unrelated stuff. A combined codex would lead to a fully Sister force being filled with only a few troop choices, kinda like now. There's no way that GW is going to jam effectively three armies (Grey Knights, Sisters of Battle and Inquisition) into one book and have each one of them full of individuality. We don't tell Marine and Guard players that they should get half of their options and only one "Imperial Armies" book so I don't know why non SOB players are so concerned with what we get.
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Post by: Shabutie
I don't mean any offense; I too like how the Sisters get a large chunk of the Witch Hunters book. But I think a combined Codex makes more sense.
Consider that the Inquisition isn't an army on its own, and neither are the Grey Knights. If you nix all the useless options there would be plenty of room for all in the same Codex.
Penitent Engines and Repentia were always sort of dead weight, so if you cut those, fold all the similar transport options (Rhinos, Land Raiders, Chimeras) into one Dedicated Transport section, get rid of the completely useless orbital bombardment option, and squash down the assassins section into a manageable size (probably by getting rid of the Culexus all together) and toss out the missions and adversaries options (because no one used those) and there you go.
Might have to have smaller fluff sections and gallery pages as a result, but all in all it would make for a good sized Codex with plenty of army options for all the Ordos.
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
Shabutie wrote:Everyone keeps saying the Sisters shouldn't be included in a combined 'dex and I don't understand why.
I mean, Grey Knights technically aren't Inquisition,
Except, Grey Knights actually are under the Ordo Malleus. They're not a separate organization like the Navy, Ministorum, Guard or Knights.
Shabutie wrote:I don't mean any offense; I too like how the Sisters get a large chunk of the Witch Hunters book.
Consider that the Inquisition isn't an army on its own, and neither are the Grey Knights.
The Sisters predate the WH book with standalone 2E and 3E Codices which had no Inquisition elements whatsoever.
The Inquisition has it's own army, built upon Inquisitional Stormtroopers, and typically appropriating whatever local Guard / PDF / Marines they can get their hands on. The Grey Knights are under the Ordo Malleus, and are clearly Inquisition troops.
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Post by: Kroothawk
Necrons, Grey Knights and Sororitas all started as a handfull of fluffy models, who got a small Codex in 3rd edition with only a few options and will be expanded to a full grown Codex in 5th edition. All three have the potential for this. If you read the 2nd edition Sororitas Codex, you will agree that the Ecclesiarchy has too much potential to be squeezed into half a Codex.
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Post by: Melissia
I just hope that, when the Sisters are redone, it's Sisters, not Inquisition.
The Inquisition as done in 3rd edition was a set of crappy rules, with mostly crappy models, and almost no fluff. They're basically worthless as they were put in back then, and GW knows it... Jervis Johnson has admitted that they basically just stuffed the Inquisition into the Sisters codex because they wanted to advertise for the Inquisitor roleplaying game, rather than because of their own merits.
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Post by: sonofruss
Kroothawk wrote:Necrons, Grey Knights and Sororitas all started as a handfull of fluffy models, who got a small Codex in 3rd edition with only a few options and will be expanded to a full grown Codex in 5th edition. All three have the potential for this. If you read the 2nd edition Sororitas Codex, you will agree that the Ecclesiarchy has too much potential to be squeezed into half a Codex.
You are mistaken sisters had a codex in 2ed I have it within reach as I type
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Post by: Melissia
Sisters actually started back in Rogue Trader. The infamous "Sister Sin roasting a rainbow warrior" picture is one of the first mentions of Sororitas.
And guess what? Back in Rogue Trader, Sisters hunted down Astartes chapters that went astray, basically they policed the Astartes. Fun times 
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Post by: Kroothawk
sonofruss wrote:Kroothawk wrote:Necrons, Grey Knights and Sororitas all started as a handfull of fluffy models, who got a small Codex in 3rd edition with only a few options and will be expanded to a full grown Codex in 5th edition. All three have the potential for this. If you read the 2nd edition Sororitas Codex, you will agree that the Ecclesiarchy has too much potential to be squeezed into half a Codex.
You are mistaken sisters had a codex in 2ed I have it within reach as I type
Please read my post again, esp. the third sentence
BTW all three fractions were present in 2nd edition. I was just too lazy to verify, which ones also had predecessors in Rogue Trader.
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Post by: Melissia
The Sisters of Battle ARE the standing army of the Ecclesiarchy, Kroothawk... the Frateris Militia are basically just mobs of citizens whipped into a frenzy by priests.
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Post by: Kroothawk
You mean, after reading the 2nd edition Codex I wouldn't be aware of that?
Maybe I should be more explicit: Rumours say that the sisters will be included in an extended Ecclesiarchy Codex instead of a Witch Hunter Codex.
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Post by: Melissia
That's better
Although frankly there's no point of calling it Codex: Ecclesiarchy, any more than it is trying to call C: IG Codex: Imperium.
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
Kroothawk wrote:Necrons, Grey Knights and Sororitas all started as a handfull of fluffy models,
For the pedantic:
Grey Knights = late Rogue Trader, originally in Realms of Chaos hardback; 3 Terminator model designs; regular GKs are non-Psykers and look just like regular SMs
Sisters are a full Codex in 2E, with a full line of infantry models, like a 2E Guard faction. Much more than a handful, and none wasted.
Necrons are a very late 2E WD scenario force with limited model support consisting of just Lord, Warriors, Immortals, Destroyers, and Scarabs. I wish I still had my 1st gen Immortals to field as Imperial Robots of some sort.
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Post by: Luke_Prowler
Actually, while the SoB are the Ecclesiarchy's army, they are very involved with the Inquisition, so it would make sense that they would work together.
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Post by: Kroothawk
Melissia wrote:Although frankly there's no point of calling it Codex: Ecclesiarchy, any more than it is trying to call C:IG Codex: Imperium.
... or Tau Empire. Wait!
JohnHwangDD wrote:Sisters are a full Codex in 2E, with a full line of infantry models, like a 2E Guard faction. Much more than a handful, and none wasted.
If Sisters were really a full line of miniatures and more than a handfull, why is the 3rd edition Codex with double the number of miniatures still considered small? Actually it was just one HQ, one standard, one fast attack and some sisters with heavy weapons. Comparable to the handfull of Necrons (one HQ, one standard, one elite, one support and scarabs), which was also extended to a small Codex in 3rd edition.
Luke_Prowler wrote:Actually, while the SoB are the Ecclesiarchy's army, they are very involved with the Inquisition, so it would make sense that they would work together.
We are talking about adding Ecclesiarchy only units like redemptionists, bishops etc., so changing the emphasis from Inquisition to church (and keep Inquisition units for Grey Knights).
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Post by: Melissia
Kroothawk wrote:... or Tau Empire. Wait!
... which is accurate, as 90% of all units (from memory anyway) are Tau, with some supporting units. Codex: Sisters of Battle is a more accurate name for any Ecclesiarchal codex because 90% of all units, and indeed the only STANDING army, is the Sisters of Battle.
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Post by: Archonate
Melissia wrote:The Inquisition as done in 3rd edition was a set of crappy rules, with mostly crappy models, and almost no fluff. They're basically worthless as they were put in back then, and GW knows it... Jervis Johnson has admitted that they basically just stuffed the Inquisition into the Sisters codex because they wanted to advertise for the Inquisitor roleplaying game, rather than because of their own merits.
Sisters really deserve their own codex. They have been treated horribly from the start.
If memory serves, they were one of the very last codices released in 2nd edition. Shortly after that, 3rd edition came out, rendering all 2nd ed codices obsolete. Then at the end of 3rd Edition, they were lumped into an ugly, mismash codex wherein they were (and still are) unable to shine as an independent army. They are a very characterful army of which GWs acknowledgment is long overdue. I'm glad they're in the works. I'm hoping they arrive on the scene alone. It can't even be said that they wouldn't be popular, cause they've never been given a fair chance as a standalone army.
Plus, they are really the only Imperial army that I would consider playing...
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
Kroothawk wrote:JohnHwangDD wrote:Sisters are a full Codex in 2E, with a full line of infantry models, like a 2E Guard faction. Much more than a handful, and none wasted.
If Sisters were really a full line of miniatures and more than a handfull, why is the 3rd edition Codex with double the number of miniatures still considered small?
Standards change. 3E Sisters were comparable in scope with DE and original Tau.
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Post by: Deep Throat
A couple days ago I bought the 2e Sisters of Battle Codex for $6 due to my huge enthusiasm in the army and I really like what's in it, aside from not understanding all the rules. I like the idea of them getting their own Codex again, or at least another one that focuses a lot on them. I'm pretty satisfied with the Witch Hunters one, but it could use even more detail on Sisters. Either, way I really hope there's a good update soon. I even hope Repentia and Penitent Engines get improved, especially Repentia. I think their concept and models are amazing, I would use them if not for their gak for rules. Whatever the case, I'm just excited for an eventual update.
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Post by: Melissia
Repentia would ahve to be improved if they want to sell them. They're the worst unit in the game, or at least in the bottom three.
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Post by: Deep Throat
That's what I've read. It's no wonder that the box set with the mistress is no longer available. It's a shame due to the fluff of the unit and beauty of the models. I would almost consider buying a blister of three Repentia just to paint but even that would feel like paying too much compared to what I could be spending on good units. :/
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Post by: Melissia
I actually kinda hate the fluff of the unit after thinking about it a bit. Basically they're Sisters who've had a nervous breakdown and are now bat gak crazy... *facepalm*
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Post by: Deep Throat
Lol, true. But after reading about Iona the Repentia in the book Faith and Fire I just think the whole absolute devotion to the Imperium and crazed desire for redemption goes really well with the flavor of the army as a whole. But anyway, the craziest thing just happened. Used to the box of ten sisters had the availability "expected to dispatched within 1 to 2 weeks". Then after my order it says they were discontinued. And NOW the site says they normally ship within 24 hours. It kinda made me say "what the feth, have they finally lost it with Sisters?" Either way, I'm just excited for my three SoB blisters to come in, unless of course there's another random discontinuation.
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Post by: Melissia
I don't. I like the Sisters as a military unit with a somewhat religious bent, not as a bunch of crazed religious nutjobs with hardly a conscious thought, completely lacking in logic and idiotic as soldiers. There's enough of THOSE donkey-caves around where I live, I certainly don't want to play an army of them...
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Post by: Deep Throat
Lol! Nice. Live in the Bible belt? I totally agree with you on the military unit. I love the Sisters of Battle for the sophistication and sense they seem to bring to the battle field. I like the religious thing mainly for the faith powers and devotion of the troops. My main thing with Repentia is the journey for redemption, though I disagree with the reasons of becoming them and the treatment they get, based on my reading of the Codex and Faith and Fire.
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Post by: Shabutie
Melissia wrote:I don't. I like the Sisters as a military unit with a somewhat religious bent, not as a bunch of crazed religious nutjobs with hardly a conscious thought, completely lacking in logic and idiotic as soldiers. There's enough of THOSE donkey-caves around where I live, I certainly don't want to play an army of them...
That pretty much describes the Imperium in a nutshell.
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Post by: VikingScott
Terminus wrote:Well, GW hasn't done a decent "huge" book since 2nd edition (now THOSE were some codexes!).
With their current business model, I do NOT want a combined Inquisition book, as it means one of two things:
1. The various Ordos are mutually exclusive, so each one is as limited in choice as they are now.
2. The various Ordos can be mixed, and with the usual GW method of having one or two options per FOC slot that just rock out, we'll get terrible amalgam lists of Deathwatch elites and Malleus troops, with Seraphim filling out the fast attack section.
^This.
I agree with Terminus here, the 2 playable ordos need to have seperate codexs, Deathwatch however I'm not sure about where they should go...
Seeing as I haven't ever seen an xenos inquisiotor ruleset i have no idea where they should go.
I do not want one big codex.
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Post by: Melissia
I don't care about the "ordos", I care about the Sisters. But then, I never bought into the witch hunters crap, it's a Sisters codex with some irrelevant crap tossed in cause they wanted to advertise for something else.
Shabutie wrote:That pretty much describes the Imperium in a nutshell.
Not really. Religion plays a large part in the culture, yes, but at the same time, their soldiers are still soldiers, not what basically amounts to zealots with guns pointed at the enemy hoping they'll at least cause more trouble to the enemy than they do to eachother.
The Imperium's continued existence proves it.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
Melissia wrote:I don't care about the "ordos", I care about the Sisters. But then, I never bought into the witch hunters crap, it's a Sisters codex with some irrelevant crap tossed in cause they wanted to advertise for something else.
That's nice, but like it or not, the current fluff is that Sisters are a Chamber Militant. Until that changes (and it may well do so come the next Witch Hunter/Sisters Codex, as all GW fluff is arbitrary), they're part of the Inquisition and as much as you don't care about the Ordo Hereticus, I don't care about the Sisters, and we both have to live with one another, so deal with it.
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Post by: CT GAMER
Kroothawk wrote:You mean, after reading the 2nd edition Codex I wouldn't be aware of that?
Maybe I should be more explicit: Rumours say that the sisters will be included in an extended Ecclesiarchy Codex instead of a Witch Hunter Codex.
This alone will get me to keep my sisters, especially if such a codex also contains lots of fanatical rabble-type units like zealots/fraternis miltia, etc., etc.
If they get crammed into another =I= codex they are hitting ebay...
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Post by: Melissia
H.B.M.C. wrote:they're part of the Inquisition
No, actually, they aren't. They have an agreement to assist the Ordo Hereticus, and the Ordo Hereticus assists them in return, but the Sisters of Battle are employed primarily (indeed, almost entirely) by the Imperial Cult-- not the Inquisition. Even in C: WH this is true. Not only were the craptacular inquisition units hoisted in a codex where they blatantly don't belong, but the Inquisition's fluff is barely even present in C: WH. GW cares LESS about the Inquisition than it does the Sisters, if that's possible.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
My point was, Melissia, that the fluff changes at the whims of whatever units they need to write into the Codex. Doom of Malan'tai is a good example - never mentioned before or since, but invented out of no where to create a new unit.
Actually... Vanguard, Sternguard, Thunderfire Cannons, Redeemers, Sanguinary Guard, Venomthropes, Hive Guard - all of these things have been pulled out of no where and retconned into the background as though they were always there - completely arbitrary.
So don't get attached to your fluff. What it is now, or what it was in 2nd Ed is irrelevant. It can and will change to fit with whatever they need it to come the next release.
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Post by: bhsman
But they didn't undo the 'Chamber Militant of the Ecclesiarchy' in the Witchhunters codex, only emphasized their working together with the Inquisition. What you're referring to - new units - didn't change the entire fluff aspect of the army. The presence of a Thunderfire Cannon didn't place the Space Marines who use it directly under the command of the Mechanicus, etc.
None of the examples you list make any radical changes unlike what you are referring to beyond your usual spiel.
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Post by: Melissia
H.B.M.C. wrote:My point was, Melissia, that the fluff changes at the whims of whatever units they need to write into the Codex.
... which could very well mean that they completely remove the Inquisition from the codex entirely, with only a casual reference to them at most. Retcon can work both ways.
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Post by: Kroothawk
81 posts in the first 19 hours on the forum. Must be a record.
Anyway, let's get back on topic: No news & rumours on Sororitas ATM, no release in the near future.
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Post by: Melissia
Kroothawk wrote:81 posts in the first 19 hours on the forum. Must be a record.
Anyway, let's get back on topic: No news & rumours on Sororitas ATM, no release in the near future.
My prediction based off of what we've heard is middle to late next year... hopefully, it'll be Sisters and Ecclesiarchy-- IE, we get to see Frateris Militia again.
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Post by: Chimera_Calvin
I don't think we could even make educated guesses as to the content of any future WH/SoB codex until we know the layout of the forthcoming DH/GK codex - that should give us some clues as to what direction GW plans to take with Inquisition units and hence how Inquisiton-heavy any SoB book would be.
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Post by: Melissia
Chimera_Calvin wrote:I don't think we could even make educated guesses as to the content of any future WH/SoB codex until we know the layout of the forthcoming DH/GK codex - that should give us some clues as to what direction GW plans to take with Inquisition units and hence how Inquisiton-heavy any SoB book would be.
Even then, from what I can tell they might actually stuff ALL of the Inquisition into the GK codex for all we know. Just because Grey Knights get stuffed with Inquisition crap doesn't mean that Sisters will, too.
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Post by: Chimera_Calvin
Precisely the point - if they squeeze every conceivable Inquisition option in and call the book 'Codex:Inquisition' but allow pure GK armies to be made from it as a subset then its fair to say that SoB will get a pure Sisters/Ecclesiarchy book in the future.
If there is little/no Inquisition stuff and the book is primarily a Grey Knight codex, the future for the Inquisition is a lot less clear.
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Post by: Archonate
But they didn't undo the 'Chamber Militant of the Ecclesiarchy' in the Witchhunters codex, only emphasized their working together with the Inquisition.
Yeah but I wouldn't put such a change past GW. I think it's less a matter of fluff as it exists now and more a matter of fluff as it will exist to serve as an optimized moneymaker. IOW, they'll change it however they have to, to maximize revenue.
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Post by: Melissia
Personally, I would think it would be most profitable to have it be pure Sisters/Ecclesiarchy, with plastic Sisters and Frateris Militia. IG players would also be able to buy the frateris militia and use them as conscript models, and it means Inquisition players don't have their rules split over two codices so you could actually get more out of the Grey Knights / Inquisition codex as well.
Noone really knows how well a Sisters/Ecclesiarchy army would sell today... the second edition codex was released practically right before third edition, making it useless shortly after it was released.
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Post by: VikingScott
"craptactular Inquision units"?
I beg to differ.
With 2250 pts of so-called crap-tactular units that I happen to win with.
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Post by: Smashotron
I think the current iterations of DH/WH are far from useless. The DH are severely dated and need a new codex, but the WH can still do without.
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Post by: Melissia
VikingScott wrote:"craptactular Inquision units"?
I beg to differ.
With 2250 pts of so-called crap-tactular units that I happen to win with.
Which is probably land raider spam, and that I've found is actually pretty easy to counter.
Hilariously easy, in some cases. Well, for me anyway.
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Post by: VikingScott
I own 1 land raider.
That is for my SMs actually
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Post by: bhsman
Whether they are competitive or not, people will still want to use them depending on their preferences (see: overcosted Storm Troopers ), but this isn't the place to dick-wave over what units you win with.
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Post by: VikingScott
bhsman wrote:Whether they are competitive or not, people will still want to use them depending on their preferences (see: overcosted Storm Troopers ), but this isn't the place to dick-wave over what units you win with.
Correct.
And I am responding to melissa who said that i take raider spam. I do not
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Post by: Melissia
If you don't, I'd be amused to see how you get that many points in an army made entirely out of inquisitors, assassins, and stormtroopers. Seeing as those are the only units that are Inquisition.
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Post by: Necrosis
Do sisters work with the Inquisition sometimes? Yes. Does every other Imperial faction work with the Inquisition sometimes? Yes (even the Dark Angels have on the siege of Vraks).
When ever the sisters decided to take major action, like a war of faith (equivalent of a space marine crusade), it's the sisters and some fanatics who are in it. The Inquisition stays out of it, just keeping an eye on certain Cardinals to make sure they don't get to powerful. This is why I would like to see sisters get their own codex. Hell even daemons of chaos got their own codex.
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Post by: TyraelVladinhurst
maybe we'll get lucky and sisters will get sisters of silence as an elite anti psychic unit.... a man can dream
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Post by: daedalus
Melissia wrote:If you don't, I'd be amused to see how you get that many points in an army made entirely out of inquisitors, assassins, and stormtroopers. Seeing as those are the only units that are Inquisition.
You forgot Daemonhosts. And I just did it with one land raider. I could drop that and it would be slightly trickier, but definitely doable.
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Post by: VikingScott
WH not DH so no Deamonhosts
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Post by: Melissia
Correct, no daemonhosts. Daemonhunters are a bit easier to build a list for, but not by much (C: DH is one of the weaker codices overall).
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Post by: daedalus
Whoops. Foot in mouth then.
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Post by: bhsman
Every non- GK list should field at least 6 Death Cult Assassins.
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Post by: andrewm9
Melissia wrote:If you don't, I'd be amused to see how you get that many points in an army made entirely out of inquisitors, assassins, and stormtroopers. Seeing as those are the only units that are Inquisition.
Maybe its those 80+ point Chimera's that Witchhunters use and the crazy wargear that Veteran IS Sergeants have access to.
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Post by: Necrosis
Come on guys, don't forget about the Penitent engine, the acro-flagellants and the priests. Those could fill up lots of points. Just think of it, 9 penitent engines and 3 squads of acro-flagellants.
That being said we should probably move these posts to another topic.
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Post by: VikingScott
Technicly those are not Inq as they priests are required to take both penitant engines or acro-flagellants
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Post by: Melissia
Right, Arcos and P.Engines are both Ecclesiarchal units-- IE, they belong in a Sisters army, not an Inquisition one.
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Post by: Nobzey
I do hope the SoB get their own codex. I also hope they change their fluff a bit cause to be honest it turns me off from wanting to play them.
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Post by: Necrosis
Whats wrong with there fluff? There Fluff is awesome besides the fact they don't have to much.
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Post by: VikingScott
Nobzey wrote:I do hope the SoB get their own codex. I also hope they change their fluff a bit cause to be honest it turns me off from wanting to play them.
What do you want then?
Large portions of fluff about them rubbing holy oils into each other? 
Seriously now, some fluff is gak others is good.
Sisters I thought was so-so.
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Post by: Nobzey
There is nothing wrong with the fluff, it just was a bit too extreme for my tastes. How blind they could be in the line of duty. I know people who love how extreme they became. I like the idea of things not being just black or white. Their fluff on the other hand is very black and white haha.
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Post by: Kirasu
Pretty much all imperial fluff is black and white.. This is nothing new nor do I think it will change
Its a xenophobic militant theocracy (the entire imperium).. That doesnt lend well to "differing ideas"
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Post by: Melissia
... except for the fluff that states there are a great deal of cults in the Imperium, each one worshipping the Emperor in a different way, and all of them are supposedly under the banner of the Ecclesiarchy.
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Post by: VikingScott
Eg. Standard cult of the emperor, The Redemption, Cult of the Star Child. don't know others
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Post by: Melissia
The only part I hate about the Sisters fluff is the Martyrdom aspect. I don't really hate it so much as I hate the fact that it's so damn overblown to the point of stupidity.
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Post by: Nobzey
I know every living thing in the imperium is loyal to the Emperor and all that Jazz. What I mean is the people within the army can have a certain looseness. For example Space Wolves because they don't follow the code that other SM follow and instead follow their own belief system. Some armies in the Imperium are way more compansionate towards life. Sisters and the Inqusition on the other hand will just kill you if they feel for any reason you have done something wrong. They will hunt their own kind need be.
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Post by: TyraelVladinhurst
sabastian thor has his own cult if i remember correctly
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Post by: Melissia
Actually Sebastian Thor's cult (in the sense of the one he started, which later declared him a Living Saint) IS the modern Ecclesiarchy. The old Imperial Cult, referred to now as "Temple Tendency", is illegal and heretical, and still believe Vandire was the last true Ecclesiarch... and they absolutely despise the Sisters.
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Post by: Terminus
Shabutie wrote:Everyone keeps saying the Sisters shouldn't be included in a combined 'dex and I don't understand why. If they weren't working closely with the Witch Hunters to find heresy, what would they do to justify them fighting all the other armies?
I mean, Grey Knights technically aren't Inquisition, they just have the same goals so they work hand-in-hand with each other, much like SoB and WH. I hope that they are in the same codex, so that I can make use of my mixed Sisters/GK force.
There is a very huge difference between the relationship of Grey Knights and Ordo Malleus and that of the Sororitas and Ordo Hereticus. The Grey Knights are the EXCLUSIVE militant arm of the Malleus, both have their home bases on Saturn's moons, and at least one if not several Grand Masters are members of the highest level of the Ordo Malleus. The only reason there is any separation between the two organizations is because as Space Marines, Grey Knights have the Emperor's mandate of autonomy (but seeing as the word of the Ordo is the word of the Emperor, the distinction is largely symbolic). The Sororitas, on the other hand, have absolutely no official ties to the Ordo Hereticus. They are the militant arm of the Ministorum (who also happen to have their own witch hunters, completely unrelated to the Ordos). The Ordo Hereticus frequently uses them only because of the subject matter of the crimes and heresies they investigate (just like they do Arbites), and because the Ministorum is one of the organizations they specifically keep tabs on (they were created for that express purpose). To put it in other words, whereas Malleus/Grey Knights are like Police/SWAT, Hereticus/Sororitas are like Police/Highway Patrol. The first pairing are part of the same department, while the second are two completely different organizations that may collaborate when their jurisdictions overlaps.
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Post by: TyraelVladinhurst
Melissia wrote:Actually Sebastian Thor's cult (in the sense of the one he started, which later declared him a Living Saint) IS the modern Ecclesiarchy. The old Imperial Cult, referred to now as "Temple Tendency", is illegal and heretical, and still believe Vandire was the last true Ecclesiarch... and they absolutely despise the Sisters.
this i didn't know, seriously thank you for this bit of infomation
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Post by: pretre
Terminus wrote:
The Sororitas, on the other hand, have absolutely no official ties to the Ordo Hereticus. They are the militant arm of the Ministorum (who also happen to have their own witch hunters, completely unrelated to the Ordos). The Ordo Hereticus frequently uses them only because of the subject matter of the crimes and heresies they investigate (just like they do Arbites), and because the Ministorum is one of the organizations they specifically keep tabs on (they were created for that express purpose).
snip
Obviously you are blatantly ignorant of the actual fluff. I feel sorry for your parents' disappointment in their idiot child. Pass along my condolences.
Amusingly enough, you're also not 100% on the fluff. The Ordo doesn't just use them because of the subject matter. As part of the Decree Passive that removed all 'Men at Arms' after the Reign of Blood, the Sisters only were allowed to continue existing for two reasons:
1) They aren't technically 'men' at arms
2) They agreed to work for the Ordo H in the future in exchange for the Inquisitorial Rep on the High Lords not stirring up crap over it. ( Mmm. Blackmail)
So, it was about 8k years ago (I think M32) that the sisters were strong armed into being with the Ordo H. (Source: Old arse SOB Codex, 2nd Edition)
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Post by: Melissia
No, you're quite wrong.
The Convocation of Nephilim wasn't blackmail. It was merely an agreement for two organizations with similar goals to help eachother out. The Sisters are, and have always been the army of the Ecclesiarchy first and foremost.
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Post by: Terminus
pretre wrote:Amusingly enough, you're also not 100% on the fluff. The Ordo doesn't just use them because of the subject matter. As part of the Decree Passive that removed all 'Men at Arms' after the Reign of Blood, the Sisters only were allowed to continue existing for two reasons:
1) They aren't technically 'men' at arms
2) They agreed to work for the Ordo H in the future in exchange for the Inquisitorial Rep on the High Lords not stirring up crap over it. (Mmm. Blackmail)
So, it was about 8k years ago (I think M32) that the sisters were strong armed into being with the Ordo H. (Source: Old arse SOB Codex, 2nd Edition)
That WOULD be amusing, if it was true. No such "strong arming" or "blackmail" is necessary for the Inquisition. Their authority is limitless, stretching all the way to the High Lords of Terra.
Since the Ordo Hereticus was newly created specifically after these events to curtail future abuses by the Ministorum, the Convocation of Nephilim was primarily a symbolic document to underline that this new organization is indeed an extention of the Holy Orders of the Emperor's Inquisition, that the Sororitas are answerable not only to the Ministorum, and that the new Ordo will be keeping an extra close eye on them for any shenanigans.
edit: gah, ninja'd by Melissia. Do you have a chip implanted in your head that goes off whenever anyone anywhere mentions the Sororitas?
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Post by: warboss
Melissia wrote:No, you're quite wrong.
The Convocation of Nephilim wasn't blackmail. It was merely an agreement for two organizations with similar goals to help eachother out. The Sisters are, and have always been the army of the Ecclesiarchy first and foremost.
lol, so you're the one people keep talking in reference to BOLS and SOB. welcome to dakka! @134 posts in the less than 24 hours since signing up, you might actually give gwar a run for his money in the most posts this week tally!
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Post by: Melissia
Yeah. I've had a lot of time on my hands recently, babysitting this brat while I wait for classes to start in august. Put out a bunch of job applications, but I doubt any of them will respond. The job market is flooded with "unskilled" labor here.
Terminus wrote:gah, ninja'd by Melissia. Do you have a chip implanted in your head that goes off whenever anyone anywhere mentions the Sororitas?
I might as well...
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Post by: Terminus
Did you remember to put down the Ordo Hereticus as a reference?
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Post by: Melissia
The Ordo Hereticus doesn't like me because I told them they suck in battle.
And then proved it by whipping their asses time and time again.
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Post by: pretre
Terminus wrote:pretre wrote:
1) They aren't technically 'men' at arms
2) They agreed to work for the Ordo H in the future in exchange for the Inquisitorial Rep on the High Lords not stirring up crap over it. (Mmm. Blackmail)
So, it was about 8k years ago (I think M32) that the sisters were strong armed into being with the Ordo H. (Source: Old arse SOB Codex, 2nd Edition)
That WOULD be amusing, if it was true. No such "strong arming" or "blackmail" is necessary for the Inquisition. Their authority is limitless, stretching all the way to the High Lords of Terra.
Prepare to be amused... (I was wrong about the book, btw)
3rd Ed Witch Hunters Codex wrote:
The Convocation stated that the Orders Militatnt of the Adepta Sororitas would place themselves at the disposal of the Ordo Hereticus whenever called to do so by a duly appointed Inquisitor, forming the Chamber Militant of the Witch Hunters. The Sisterhood would remain under the auspices of the Ecclesiarchy on a day-to-day basis and retain the rights and responsbilities granted to them by Sebastian Thor.
It is postulated by some that this move came about because the High Lords of Terra, in particular The Inquisitorial Representative to the Senatorum Imperialis, would not simply stand by and allow the Ecclesiarchy to flout the spirit, if not the letter, of the Decree Passive. Under the terms of the Con of Neph, the E would retain the SoB as a fighting force, and the newly formed Ordo Hereticus would acquire an unswervingly loyal Chamber Militant.
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Post by: Melissia
Speculation by paranoid politicians isn't exactly my idea of fact.
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Post by: Terminus
Right, so like I said before, it's a pure formality. The entire Imperium is "at the disposal [of] a duly appointed Inquisitor".
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Post by: Nobzey
If they have so much power and think that the Blood Angels are slightly chaotic due to Sanguinius and his wings, what stops them from calling them or any other Imperial force heritics and killing them?
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
Terminus wrote:The entire Imperium is "at the disposal [of] a duly appointed Inquisitor".
Exactly.
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Post by: Mahu
Nobzey wrote:If they have so much power and think that the Blood Angels are slightly chaotic due to Sanguinius and his wings, what stops them from calling them or any other Imperial force heritics and killing them?
Because of the repercussions for doing so?
It's the same reason why they got on Kryptman's case when he was destroying whole worlds to "lead" the Tyranids.
Just because you have the power, doesn't mean using it is the best idea at the time. I would imagine it is better for the Blood Angels to be fighting for the imperium, not against it.
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Post by: Terminus
Nobzey wrote:If they have so much power and think that the Blood Angels are slightly chaotic due to Sanguinius and his wings, what stops them from calling them or any other Imperial force heritics and killing them?
Because for the most part the Blood Angels do what they are told, and it would take a whole lot of resources to marshal a large enough Imperial Navy and Astartes force to breach their planetary defenses. You don't put down a good guard-dog just because it's occasionally unruly.
And the Inquisition is quite divided on the nature of Sanguinius' wings, not to mention they aren't fully aware of all the shenanigans going on on Baal.
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Post by: Melissia
Nobzey wrote:If they have so much power and think that the Blood Angels are slightly chaotic due to Sanguinius and his wings, what stops them from calling them or any other Imperial force heritics and killing them?
The power of the Inquisition varies from Inquisitor to Inquisitor-- similarly, so does the PHILOSOPHY of the Inquisition.
Also, Blood Angels are quite celebrated. After all, theirs is the only primarch to be declared a Saint of the Imperium. So it's in the Inquisition's best interest to work with them as long as their heresy doesn't get too out of hand.
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Post by: Kirasu
Every single thread which mentions SOB will now turn into this.. Was easier to ignore BOLS :(
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Post by: VikingScott
Pssst----
(what does BOLS stand for)
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Post by: Melissia
Bell of Lost Souls.
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Post by: vitki
Bell of Lost Souls?
Another forum/ WH site I believe
Edit: Ninja-ed. Dang Melissa, do you just hit the refresh button on this thread?
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Post by: VikingScott
Ahh.
What really? Pure WH?
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Post by: warboss
Melissia wrote:Nobzey wrote:If they have so much power and think that the Blood Angels are slightly chaotic due to Sanguinius and his wings, what stops them from calling them or any other Imperial force heritics and killing them?
The power of the Inquisition varies from Inquisitor to Inquisitor-- similarly, so does the PHILOSOPHY of the Inquisition.
Also, Blood Angels are quite celebrated. After all, theirs is the only primarch to be declared a Saint of the Imperium. So it's in the Inquisition's best interest to work with them as long as their heresy doesn't get too out of hand.
not to mention that a half dozen chapters would probably revolt if they went against the BA (i.e. their successors). i'm sure the prideful successors would take a personal offense at an =I= on their ancestor chapter.
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Post by: Necrosis
VikingScott wrote:Ahh.
What really? Pure WH?
It's not pure WH (not even close). It just happens to have lots of sister players.
But it talks about all armies and posts lots of articles.
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Post by: vitki
Sorry for the confusion, by WH, meant Warhammer, not Witch Hunter.
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Post by: VikingScott
Ah ok.
Im staying in safe dakka!
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Post by: Necrosis
vitki wrote:Sorry for the confusion, by WH, meant Warhammer, not Witch Hunter.
As in Warhammer fantasy or just Warhammer in general (including 40k)?
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Post by: Nobzey
So if they cannot target whole chapters who do they hunt? Rogue generals, small warband types? Also how big are the Sisters of battle? Are they confined to the 1000 man rule like Space Marines or do they decide their rank and numbers?
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Post by: Necrosis
Nobzey wrote:So if they cannot target whole chapters who do they hunt? Rogue generals, small warband types? Also how big are the Sisters of battle? Are they confined to the 1000 man rule like Space Marines or do they decide their rank and numbers?
They have targeted whole chapters in the past, it just very rare.
Sisters of battle numbers remains unknown due to the lack of information we have. Some say say several thousands while other would say millions. Due to their codex not being updated it is hard to tell.
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Post by: Mannahnin
Long and detailed Fluff/background discussions should be in the Fluff/Background forum, not derailing News/Rumors threads.
It's great that folks love and are enthused about the 40k universe, but please don't derail threads.
Please also refrain from flaming other posters.
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Post by: pretre
Edit: Whoops. So noted.
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Post by: bhsman
So, in an effort to get the thread back on track (not that I didn't enjoy the fluff discussion), what's the perceived 'schedule' looking like as far as we know?
June: Spearhead
July: Fantasy 8th Edition
August: 8th Ed. Set release
September: Daemons
October: ?
November: ? + Gamesday UK (Possible Dark Eldar reveal?)
December: ?
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Post by: Necrosis
Wait, I thought Dark Eldar were coming out on November.
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Post by: bhsman
They might, if I was mistaken and Gamesday UK is actually in October.
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Post by: Kroothawk
My guess:
June: Spearhead (confirmed)
July: Warhammer 8th edition rulebook (confirmed)
August: Daemons 2nd wave (confirmed)
September: Warhammer 8th edition starter box
October: Possibly Dark Eldar
November: Several single Fantasy releases including HE stuff
December:?
January: Grey Knights?
February: Orcs&Goblins or Tomb Kings?
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Post by: Melissia
bhsman wrote:September: Daemons
To which, 40k or WFB? I'm not in tune with WFB releases, but I know Daemons are extremely unlikely to get a new 40k codex so soon. The second wave of minis will come sooner than September likely.
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Post by: Kroothawk
They are daemons, so 40k AND Fantasy (2nd wave, no Codex or army book):
Plastic Daemon Lord
Plastic Seekers
Plastic Horrors
Bloodcrushers
Changeling
Fateweaver
No plague bearers or screamers.
See this thread: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/120/294986.page
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Post by: UltraPrime
bhsman wrote:So, in an effort to get the thread back on track (not that I didn't enjoy the fluff discussion), what's the perceived 'schedule' looking like as far as we know?
June: Spearhead
July: Fantasy 8th Edition
August: Deamons
September: Games Day UK/Fantasy Boxset (I guess)
October: ?
November: ?
December: ?
Daemons confirmes as Aug, Games Day last weekend of Sep.
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Post by: bhsman
I thought the Daemons were for September, and that we would see pictures of them beginning with the August White Dwarf, ie previewing them.
EDIT: Nevermind, they are August bound. I still can't help but think GK aren't being pushed to January though, in spite of what the rumormongers have been saying.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
I think everything's been pushed to next year.
No more releases 'til next year.
At least I hope so, as it'd shut up all the back-and-forth bitching that's going on here at the moment about who's getting released first.
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Post by: Melissia
No, it'd just prolong it.
GW customers and speculating/whining go along like Marines and spank.
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Post by: Deep Throat
I pulled this up in an earlier post, but I'll make a direct post for it now that we're back on subject. As I said on the first post, I got that email saying that the Sister box of 10 got canceled while the availability was set to "expect to dispatch in 1 to 2 weeks" and now I check the site and NOW they've updated the availability to within 24 hours, after they say it's discontinued. I gave up trying to figure out this web of events/errors. Does anyone know what's going on with this particular product? I'm just curious at this point.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Mannahnin wrote:
Long and detailed Fluff/background discussions should be in the Fluff/Background forum, not derailing News/Rumors threads.
Mannahnin is right about the thread about getting way off-topic, but I just made a WH fluff thread if anyone wants to continue this discussion.
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Post by: Kroothawk
Deep Throat wrote:I pulled this up in an earlier post, but I'll make a direct post for it now that we're back on subject. As I said on the first post, I got that email saying that the Sister box of 10 got canceled while the availability was set to "expect to dispatch in 1 to 2 weeks" and now I check the site and NOW they've updated the availability to within 24 hours, after they say it's discontinued. I gave up trying to figure out this web of events/errors. Does anyone know what's going on with this particular product? I'm just curious at this point.
Well, it is just a packaging issue. They have the miniatures, they have plastic boxes and white mail order only cardboard boxes. It is just a marketing decision if the sell blisters or pack them in 10- boxes. BTW the 10 boxes were introduced years after the release.
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Post by: Deep Throat
Oh I see. From now on I guess I'll just get everything in blisters, except for tanks and Seraphim. Btw, I didn't know that about the 10 boxes.
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Post by: Shabutie
Bah, the blisters are a quick way to get broke. I spent around $120 on eight Sisters and a box of Seraphim.
I think that if they're taking down the boxes to both armies, then something has to be in the works, even if it's just putting them in a different package for a new release.
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Post by: Balance
Blisters were a way to get a cheap 'Bought something' emotional fix back in the day. When I was collecting SoB heavily I was also working weird hours, so I remember driving up the FLGS on a dinner break and getting a blister or two, a White Dwarf, and then stopping for McDonalds ont he way back.
It wasn't the most cost-effective, but it kept me going at the time.
The McDonalds wasn't too good for me either. Two bad habits I've mostly conquered, I guess.
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Post by: Deep Throat
I think it'd be great to see Battle Sisters in a current box. I got my three blisters today and was happy to see that I got 2 more grenade Sisters! I like these blisters, but think they should be priced just 15 like the Repentia.
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Post by: Melissia
Yeah, but nobody buys the Repentia (Because they suck), unlike Battle Sisters.
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Post by: TyraelVladinhurst
they would buy repentia if their evisorators actually struck with their initiative instead of initiative 1
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Post by: Necrosis
TyraelVladinhurst wrote:they would buy repentia if their evisorators actually struck with their initiative instead of initiative 1
The problem is far more complicated then that.
Such as they can't enter transports and your opponent controls them more then you do which results them getting easily killed before entering combat.
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Post by: Melissia
Also, a single heavy bolter can devastate the squad.
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Post by: TyraelVladinhurst
so maybe fix the problem of not letting them enter transports? and possibly letting them assault after they disembark?
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Post by: Melissia
TyraelVladinhurst wrote:so maybe fix the problem of not letting them enter transports? and possibly letting them assault after they disembark?
They are expensive T3 models with a 4+ save taht always strike last in close combat. Against ANY dedicated assault squad, they're going to get torn apart regardless of if they get the assault or not.
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Post by: TyraelVladinhurst
ergo why i said let them strike with their initiative instead of striking last because of their weapon
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Post by: AgeOfEgos
As far as release schedule, Harry has said DE WILL release this autumn (His emphasis not mine). That's about as concrete as it gets as he rarely states anything regarding time frames with that much emphasis. He also said he would bet GK are Jan. of 11 but was more uncertain regarding that date...
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Post by: Melissia
TyraelVladinhurst wrote:ergo why i said let them strike with their initiative instead of striking last because of their weapon
... which STILL won't help them against most assault units, because they're Initiative 3 without the weapons.
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Post by: Wehrkind
Repentia need a lot of fixing. A 4+ inv save, an extra attack, fleet instead of crazy, attacking at I on the charge with I4, going in a vehicle... pick 2 or so and take them down about 5-10 points and you are probably good to go. That is actually a pretty tall order when you really think of it, more because GW doesn't like to do that sort of thing usually, unless Phil Kelly writes it. Considering they are basically a poor man's burna, it isn't too far off though.
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Post by: Melissia
My own fix was to drop them by five points, give them FNP and a 5++ invulnerable save, Fleet, and being able to ride in transports (however, they cannot assault after disembarking-- I tried to balance my fandex out so that both footslogging and mechanized Sisters were competitive and had advantages over the other).
Sisters need a lot of stuff done to them, and they have a TON of room for expansion. A creative writer could take Sisters and EASILY make them into a thirty unit codex.
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Post by: TyraelVladinhurst
Melissia wrote:My own fix was to drop them by five points, give them FNP and a 5++ invulnerable save, Fleet, and being able to ride in transports (however, they cannot assault after disembarking-- I tried to balance my fandex out so that both footslogging and mechanized Sisters were competitive and had advantages over the other).
Sisters need a lot of stuff done to them, and they have a TON of room for expansion. A creative writer could take Sisters and EASILY make them into a thirty unit codex.
This is why i'm starting to respect you...
25360
Post by: ductvader
Really wish they would update the sisters as well...but it seems they'll be put on hold for a while longer...
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Post by: Melissia
I'm glad they didn't TBH. I'd rather wait another year than have my army stuffed into a half-arsed combined codex that mashes three factions into the same codex, with ten or so units per faction (Sisters currently have eleven, by the way-- meaning in a combined codex it's unlikely they'd be expanded at all). Which would be far, far more likely than them giving the combined codex two or three times as many unit options and special characters than C:SM (thirty units per faction is about the norm for a fifth edition codex).
[edit: clarified]
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Post by: ductvader
Right?
I don't want my Knights slightly decreased in points and just used as backup for sisters...I am happy that all of us specialist Inquisitorial generals get the unique expansions we deserve. Create both full Codexes and then expand upon the possibility of Inquisitioning from those books.
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Post by: warboss
Melissia wrote:My own fix was to drop them by five points, give them FNP and a 5++ invulnerable save, Fleet, and being able to ride in transports (however, they cannot assault after disembarking-- I tried to balance my fandex out so that both footslogging and mechanized Sisters were competitive and had advantages over the other).
Sisters need a lot of stuff done to them, and they have a TON of room for expansion. A creative writer could take Sisters and EASILY make them into a thirty unit codex.
why on earth do they deserve an invul save? i can understand the FNP but the invul is quote mary sue for a bunch of low tech almost naked non-psychic people with the same training as normal sisters (so supernatural reflexes can be an excuse like with assassins, both imp and death cult).
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Post by: pretre
warboss wrote:Melissia wrote:My own fix was to drop them by five points, give them FNP and a 5++ invulnerable save, Fleet, and being able to ride in transports (however, they cannot assault after disembarking-- I tried to balance my fandex out so that both footslogging and mechanized Sisters were competitive and had advantages over the other).
Sisters need a lot of stuff done to them, and they have a TON of room for expansion. A creative writer could take Sisters and EASILY make them into a thirty unit codex.
why on earth do they deserve an invul save? i can understand the FNP but the invul is quote mary sue for a bunch of low tech almost naked non-psychic people with the same training as normal sisters (so supernatural reflexes can be an excuse like with assassins, both imp and death cult).
I think the idea was faith. I could buy it either way, although 5+ FNP would be fine too.
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Post by: Melissia
They don't wear armor, so I wasn't going to give them an armor save. Removing the invulnerable save would have necessitated a further price reduction.
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Post by: TyraelVladinhurst
still though, i think they deserve at least a 6+ armor save... or if not that then a 4+ feel no pain
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Post by: Melissia
Err, last I checked Feel No Pain IS effectively a 4+ save (which can be taken ontop of another save, unlike invulnerable/cover/armor).
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Post by: Necrosis
Feel no Pain makes sense but an armour doesn't. I mean their not really wear clothes. I can understand Invu save to, it might show their ability to dodge attacks.
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Post by: TyraelVladinhurst
Necrosis wrote:Feel no Pain makes sense but an armour doesn't. I mean their not really wear clothes. I can understand Invu save to, it might show their ability to dodge attacks.
catchans aren't really wearing armor either yet they still receive a 5+ save. just food for thought
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Post by: Necrosis
They wear flak armour.
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Post by: TyraelVladinhurst
how can you justify that? the models have t shirts and some have no shirts at all yet they still get that armor save
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Post by: Necrosis
The point is sister Repentias "Fluff wise" do not wear armour while Catachans are suppose to wear flak armour. Catachans are suppose to be the same as Cadians rule wise and Cadians wear armour.
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Post by: TyraelVladinhurst
cadians wear carapace armor, read their actual fluff instead of what was written in the lastest guard codex. just as catachans were little to no armor... this is exactly why i liked the old guard codex so that could be represented, though that book did take out griffons which made me cry. however this is entierly off topic and should be moved to a PM discussion or to the general off topic forum. in either case i hope the inquisition gets updated soon
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Post by: Kroothawk
If there are no news and rumours about Sororitas, why not close this thread?
The discussion about alternative rules for Repentia should be in another subforum.
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Post by: Deep Throat
Kroot's right. My only news is that they FINALLY got the 10 box of Sisters to "this item is no longer available." Looks like things are even harder on starting Sisters collectors. Also, I doubt it means much, but my local black shirt said that they're getting updated soon.
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Post by: boreas
Don't worry, you'll be able to get a nice free PDF codex for those nonexistent/unavailable/overpriced models!!!
Cool, no?
Phil
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Post by: Melissia
Kroothawk wrote:If there are no news and rumours about Sororitas, why not close this thread?
This thread is called "Inquisition". Technically speaking, depending on your definition of the term (whether you consider servants or allies of the Inquisition to also be "inquisition"), this can include Inquisitors, =][= STs, assassins, deathwatch, grey knights, sisters, space marines, imperial guard, and anyone else the Imperium can strong-arm or negotiate into assisting them.
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Post by: Deep Throat
Lol, just noticed. Btw, I just saw a thread up for the recently mentioned free PDF codexes.
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Post by: Melissia
Meh, not like it matters. Both codices are kinda crappy as they are right now. I'll get excited once we have some REAL news...
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Post by: Kroothawk
Melissia wrote:Kroothawk wrote:If there are no news and rumours about Sororitas, why not close this thread?
This thread is called "Inquisition". Technically speaking, depending on your definition of the term (whether you consider servants or allies of the Inquisition to also be "inquisition"), this can include Inquisitors, =][= STs, assassins, deathwatch, grey knights, sisters, space marines, imperial guard, and anyone else the Imperium can strong-arm or negotiate into assisting them.
Okay, let me rephrase:
There are no news & rumours about 40k Inquisitors, Inquisition Storm Troopers, assassins, deathwatch, Sororitas, Space marines and Imperial Guard. Grey Knights have their own threads, but even these are close because of lack of news & rumours. So this thread is obsolete as well.
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Post by: Melissia
Lack of news and rumors here anyway. I've seen a Daemonhunters thread updated regularly (IE several times a month, which is fairly regular if you think about it) on the BoLS Lounge.
Keeping the thread open for future rumors is a good idea, unless you wish there to be a new thread created every time a new rumor comes out.
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Post by: Kroothawk
Well, we already have 2-3 open GK threads at the moment and will have 10 more when new rumours come out, all of them with no question mark in the title.
And when new rumours for Sororitas come out in 12-24 months, I for my part won't search for this thread.
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Post by: Saldiven
Also, when some actual "news & rumors" come out about Sororitas (or any other sub section of the Inquisition/whatever), nobody is going to be interested in rummaging through 9+ pages of unrelated wish-mongering to get to the actual new stuff.
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Post by: Melissia
At least one page of which is taken up by whining about this very subject, yes?
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Post by: Alpharius
I do believe we've reached the point were this thread has just about collapsed under its own weight.
Snarky comments and sniping at each other are usually a good sign of this.
Signing off!
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