In our games the Laser Grenadiers were anything but weak, especially when you slapped on Siggie, put them on sustained fire, berserk and laser re-rolls. Yikes.
Shrapnelsmile wrote:How is DUST Tactics playing out for people who own it? are you enjoying it?
So far I own the Deluxe Blue Thunder Box Set and the two special edition walkers (with cards) released via Paolo's site.
Overall, I'm really liking the game. It's shaping up to be what I always wanted AT-43 to be. I know a lot of folks here feel differently, but I find the "measure than move" mechanic used in AT-43 and most other minis games to be tedious--the simplified, boardgame-style movement is exactly what I was looking for.
Right now my biggest concern is lack of unit variety (it's kind of boring to always field the same units in a 16 point game). I'm thinking of getting a second box set to help with that.
My other concern is with unit balance. The BBQ Squad that the Allies have seems way overpowered, for example. The Recon Rangers, on the other hand, seem kind of weak (as do the Laser troops on the Axis side).
Now that individual unit boxes are coming out, I'll be interested to see if Allies players start to field large numbers of BBQ Squads. 16 points of BBQ squads is 8 units, which seems like it could crush just about any Axis setup (except maybe one specifically built to be entirely anti-infantry).
I find that a bit disappointing. I was hoping for a game where the walkers were dominant, but it already sounds like infantry is taking over. I dont want to field 2 or 3 walkers and 5 squads of troops...may as well play 40K at that point. Same thing that lost my big interest in Warmachine. "hey, we are making a game all about these big ole warjacks, troops are secondary"...soon became "nevermind that, we need to sell more minis, so here come the powerful troops".
Guess thats why for all its faults Battletech remains a favorite of mine...its about the mechs. Everything else is secondary. Even after all these years they have never changed that.
Sorry, but there was and never will be an army that consists of more warmachines than infantery and BT is highly unrealistic when it comes to infantry vs. mech ratio when compared to its own background.
Duncan_Idaho wrote:Sorry, but there was and never will be an army that consists of more warmachines than infantery and BT is highly unrealistic when it comes to infantry vs. mech ratio when compared to its own background.
We are talking about gaming here, realism has nothing to do with it.
Maybe Im an odd one but I just dont care for tons of infantry. Im a mech/tank guy, infantry just doesnt excite me. Also I dont have the time or patience to paint several dozen or so minis. Hence the reason Ive never gotten into WHFB or other fantasy games.
Now in a prepainted situation Id be more open to it. I almost got into AT-43 but I didnt care for the rules. I do really like the Red Blok minis, and Ive been picking some up now that they are on clearance.
I may still give Dust a shot. If I do Ill paint the walkers and do a quick dip job on the troops.
Kanluwen wrote:If you really want a mech game, ala the old Battletech?
Look into "Heavy Gear Blitz!" by Dream Pod 9.
Yeah, Heavy Gear is probably the way to go. There's still infantry in use, and the typical tank will wipe the floor with the typical gear (mecha), but the vast majority of what ends up on the table is going to be gears and not the other stuff.
Unless you're playing Earth, of course - they're all about the hover tanks...
Kanluwen wrote:If you really want a mech game, ala the old Battletech?
Look into "Heavy Gear Blitz!" by Dream Pod 9.
Yeah ive seen it, pretty cool stuff, I really like the tanks. Its a bit pricey though, especially the tanks. If I wasnt already invested in Battletech and a little Gearkrieg Id consider picking it up, but 2 small scale games are enough for me. I prefer larger scale stuff.
Admittedly, I'm currently prepping to paint about 2 dozen bases of Heavy Gear infantry for a list I'm building... You can certainly field a lot of infantry if you want, although personally I'm usually not that masochistic to want to paint them.
Take the shores and breach the enemy defences in Operation Cyclone, a campaign expansion for Dust Tactics. Introducing new amphibious assault rules and artillery, Operation Cyclone contains everything you need to expand your Dust Tactics experience!
Before you launch your invasion, brief yourself with the Operation Cyclone rules (pdf, 2.5 MB), now available for download on the support page.
Read carefully, the shores are approaching and Operation Cyclone begins soon!
edit.
Last page has preview of German monkeys being angry.
I dig them beginning to release the terrain from the boxed set, but what I really want to see are those Landing Craft and the wall sections from the book.
Colonel Sigred Von Thaler pressed her lips together; it was her version of a smile. She watched as the second wave of Allied infantry broke under another blast of fire from Heinrich. Overpowering the enemy was her favorite way to do battle. She turned to admonish Manfred for doubting the success of their campaign, when she heard a roaring blast. Sigred looked back in time to see her own troops retreating. An Allied Walker advanced upon them, and it had...a phaser.
Fantasy Flight Games is thrilled to announce the upcoming release of two new Walker expansions for Dust Tactics, the tactical miniatures board game of explosive battlefield combat! The Light Assault Walker and the Light Panzer Walker (for your Allied or Axis forces, respectively) bring agility and deadly weapon systems to your Dust Tactics troops.
New Firepower
With the Allied forces heralding formidable units into the fray, Axis players will want to expand their armies to include a walker with multiple cannons for a broad range attack or a laser cannon to target Allied squads. The Light Panzer Walker body can be customized to either Heinrich or Hermann, both offering advantages for any Axis general to bring onto the battlefield.
With one of the most deadly weapon systems seen since the beginning of the war, the Panzer AufkclarerLaufer 1-A, aka “Heinrich” can crush an entire squad, whether or not it’s equipped with heavy armor. Heinrich’s incredible firepower derives from its four powerful FlaKvierling cannons. The Panzer AufkclarerLaufer 1-A is also versatile enough to use against lightly armored targets or engage enemies from a great distance, due to it being a light and agile vehicle.
The Axis’ newest light footed anti-tank robot, Hermann, elicits the same uneasiness in your opponent as Heinrich. With a revolutionary laser cannon Hermann can easily destroy targets much heavier than itself. Entering into a long engagement? Partner Hermann with your other Axis units, like a Recon Grenadiers squad, to both protect it and utilize it for a lengthy battle. If you’re looking to annihilate your opponent early in the game, find Hermann a secure position and use its sustained fire to waste any Allied armored unit.
Swift Action
An Allied general, desiring glory on the battlefield for himself and his nation, must bring the best of the best to the front lines. The newest Dust Tactics Light Assault Walkers, Wildfire and Honey, provide players with a multitude of advantages.
Created by Allied scientists, Wildfire’s dreadful weapon system will be a match for any Axis weaponry. The four heavy machine guns that top this light-weight robot fire simultaneously, delivering a deluge of firepower that lights up the darkest battlefield. Axis infantry and light vehicles will fall under the cloud of bullets that Wildfire strikes them with again and again. Eager for a speedy offensive? Use this Light Assault Walker’s high mobility and incredible agility to take a careless enemy by surprise.
There is nothing sweet about Honey except for its name. With a new next-generation phaser weapon system, this anti-tank is ready to erase your enemy from the board. With its superior system that can even engage heavy targets, Honey is an ideal vanguard of any Allied offensive. Want to blast your enemy with synchronized attacks? Honey was made to cooperate with other Allied troops, like Recon Rangers. Unify the strike by using Honey to attack the armored targets, while you have other Allied units fight against the Axis infantry.
With exciting and incredible abilities, these new Walker expansions will blast energy into your Dust Tactics experience. Check back for more information about these exciting new walkers for Dust Tactics, and get ready to take the offensive!
“The weather forecast guys were wrong again. It’s too cloudy, too windy. We are going to lose many soldiers in the parachuting. And these new airplanes make too much noise-the English will hear us coming from kilometers away.”
-Manfred Kreuzer
The Allies are desperate; they face catastrophic losses across the coast of Great Britain. Dover is in ruins, overrun by Axis Walkers, Brighton is beset by Axis barges, Portsmouth has fallen, with Southampton to follow. With the situation so dire, the Allied forces have no choice but to split their focus, sending Her Majesty’s fleet to face the Axis Kriegsmarine in the Channel, and leaving the naval base at Scapa Flow defenseless...or so it seems.
Fantasy Flight Games is thrilled to announce the upcoming expansion for Dust Tactics, Operation “SeeLöwe!” An epic battle awaits you off the northeast coast of Scotland, at Scapa Flow. While the Allies rush to finish the development of a revolutionary new type of aircraft carrier, the secret Axis organization, Blutkreuz Korps, has deployed to Scapa Flow with one mission: capture the new ship or destroy it! But the Blutkreuz Korps are unaware that a special division of ASOCOM is stationed at the naval base. They will prove a difficult challenge for the Axis forces.
Operation “SeeLöwe” offers players eight new exciting scenarios that tell the story of the attack on Scapa Flow and its defenses. New tiles introduce buildings into the game, offering players new tactical decisions in an urban environment. New rules and new heroes further immerse you into this stimulating expedition.
Top Secret Origins
Also included in Operation “SeeLöwe” is the never-before-read history of the Axis and one of the cornerstones of their forces: the Blutkreuz Korps. Discover how and why this secret organization was born, and what motivates their sinister quest for absolute power. Uncover truths known only to a select Axis few, such as the conspiracy surrounding Hitler’s death.
Operation “SeeLöwe” welcomes two new heroes to the war:
Ozz 117
While Ozz 117’s real name is unknown, he is one of the most active agents for the Allied forces. Equipped with the new Heavy Ranger armor, he is dangerously strong on the battlefield. Combining his Rocket Punch skill with his new Heroic Attack ability could change the course of battle in an instant. Also possessing the Jump skill, Ozz 117 is ready to handle the new building terrain. Ozz 117 believes the future of warfare will be based on his new armor; test him out and see if you agree.
Markus
Desperate to create a herculean subject that could withstand space travel, Axis scientists created Markus, the first successful specimen of their genetic experiments. With Markus’ amazing potential and an unachieved space program, The Blutkreuz Korps redirected Markus into combat. As a “war gorilla,” he is both capable of annihilating the enemy with his inhuman strength or his steel combat weapons and panzer gloves. Highly intelligent, this genetically-altered ape can use the new Charge and Blutkreuz Ape skills against his opponents.
Operation “SeeLöwe” will introduce a new level of strategy to your Dust Tactics gaming experiences. The scenarios included have no fixed amount of army points, allowing players to practice a different form of campaign customization. With an Allied hero with super strength and the first inhuman hero spawned by Axis experiments, this operation assures that the battlefield will never be the same.
Be on the lookout for updates on Operation “SeeLöwe” in the coming weeks, and be prepared to take the battle indoors!
Picked up this game a few nights ago. A buddy and I went through the whole game in one night, without realizing how much time had passed. It's that good. I've been over to my FLGS to get some more units, but they can't keep the stuff in stock. It just seems to fly off the shelves.
But the Allied walkers suffer from the same issue as the old metal Sentinel. It looks a smidge silly freaking awesome without an enclosed cockpit.
Yes, yes they do.
EDIT: Wow, I actually hadn't read Kan's second post, so it's somewhat creepy that we said nearly the same thing. Kan - do you watch Phineas and Ferb too?
The Axis mini walkers are neat, the Allied ones are too exposed and fragile looking, though I do like the idea of the "quad fifty" chicken.
As for Sea Lion, meh. I was hoping for something more conventional and British, or dare I say, some mad chef with flamethrowers, not a power armoured generic soldier X. The monkey is fun though.
Alpharius wrote:This stuff is getting harder and harder to resist...
Those German Walkers are really, really nice!
If you have the disposable income and buddies to play with then I'd recommend it as a buy. Have the boxset and releases to date, have enjoyed playing it with son and friends. Has that fun balance of dice throwing but still working the angles to move for position. Games have been full of laughs with a handful of misses or that blessing of total massacre.
“Ready, Frank? Johnny?”
Both of the other soldiers in Sam’s squad nodded. He readjusted his grip on his bazooka then activated his jetpack. They rose slowly off the ground, then gaining speed, quickly scaled the building in front of them.
“There,” Sam muttered into his walkie. The Axis soldiers had taken cover in the building’s doorway. He aimed. “Fire!”
Fantasy Flight Games is pleased to announce the upcoming release of the Allied Grim Reapers and Tank Busters, two new expansions for Dust Tactics! Add the speed and power of these heavy ranger squads to your Allied forces!
A swift advantage
When failure against Axis technology is not an option, Allied scientists are at their best. Seeking to bring forth the destruction of their enemies and provided with vast resources, these scientists created the most modern of technologies: heavy combat armor and reactors. When a few fearless volunteers were equipped with them the Grim Reapers were born.
Named for the death their touch promises, these Allied soldiers attack from above. With the Jump ability and a movement of two, the Grim Reapers can deploy and sweep across the battlefield to reach and destroy any Axis infantry or walker. Players can also use their speed together with Jump to fly over buildings (introduced in Operation “SeeLöwe”), an advantage their Axis enemies have yet to access.
The Grim Reapers are also equipped with dangerous weaponry: Victory MG duals and Rocket Punches. Use the Victory MG duals to deal damage from afar then fly in close and use their turbo-charged fists to K.O. the enemy.
Make good use of their skills to effectively bring an early death to Axis units.
How to destroy a walker
Like their Grim Reaper comrades, the new Allied Tank Busters are equipped with the most modern technology the Allies have at their disposal. These forceful and stoic soldiers have seen too many their compatriots fall under the destructive onslaught of the Axis walkers and plan to use their superior armor and weaponry to cause as much Axis carnage as possible.
The new Allied Tank Busters seem to be a contradiction; despite their heavy combat armor they are able to move across the battlefield quickly. The Tank Busters’ specialty is to function as highly effective anti-armor units.
Each member is equipped with a reactor-fueled bazooka that can waste enemy armored vehicles. Take advantage of their speed to reach an enemy walker no matter where it hides; they are able to ignore obstacles in their path by flying over them! Should their bazookas fail them, these unbelievably strong individuals can punch through a walker’s armor during close combat.
Axis Gorillas[b] und Axis Zombies[/b]
“Did you hear that?” Sigrid hissed.
“Nein,” the officer mumbled. The Baron’s daughter made him uncomfortable.
“Idiot,” Sigrid whispered, but the officer heard it nonetheless. “I’m sure I heard something. Prepare the apes and the Untertoten.”
“But Colonel...” he did not want to go near those things again, they weren’t normal. They were...unholy.
Fantasy Flight Games is pleased to announce the upcoming release of Axis Gorillas and Axis Zombies, two new expansions for Dust Tactics! Both expansions bring inhuman advantages against Allied units. The Axis Gorillas are extraordinarily strong while the Axis Zombies are fearless and resilient to damage.
A fistful of tank
The secret laboratories of the Blutkreuz Korps have produced effective combat units in the past, but none have been considered works of art until the “KampfsAffen” Program yielded the Axis Gorillas. Genetically altered for an increased mental capacity, these specimens also possess both Herculean strength and bestial savagery that they are forced to direct against Allied targets in battle.
These inhuman fighters cast dread into the hearts of Allied soldiers when they charge into the fray. However, the Axis’ poor treatment of these creatures puts their side at risk of reprisal. Could an ape revolt be brewing?
Axis Gorillas have the Blutkreuz Ape ability, which means only a hero with this same ability can join their squad. Luckily for the Axis Gorillas, their fearsome and intelligent leader Markus (available in Operation “SeeLöwe”) can join his simian brothers.
Allied units are advised to kill Axis Gorillas on sight or keep a distance as their monstrous attacks are brutal enough to destroy both squads and walkers of any strength in close combat. Don’t be surprised to see a pack of enraged gorillas tearing apart an Allied walker with sickening ease.
With their Fast ability Allied troops can be certain that it won’t be long before the Axis Gorillas are on top of them.
Resurrected Units
In the wake of Germany’s invasion of Stalingrad, where hundreds of thousands of soldiers had been lost or grievously injured, the Axis leaders turned to the extremes of science. From the labs of the Blutkreuz Korps comes a horrific solution: Wiederbeleben Serum. When this elixir is injected into the corpses of fallen soldiers, it not only reanimates them but grants them incredible resilience. With the Axis Zombies, the Axis now has plenty of new troops for the front lines.
These nightmarish creatures are one of the most powerful units of the Axis. Allied units are advised to use all available resources against these living corpses as they can destroy both squads of soldiers and powerful walkers in close combat.
The Blutkreuz Korps overestimated the tolerance of the majority of the soldiers in the Axis army to their resurrected war companions; many soldiers have deserted their positions. The Axis Zombies possess the Blutkreuz Zombie ability and can only be joined by a hero with the same ability, and so far only the Blutkreuz Korps can withstand the presence of these corpse warriors.
Despite their simple minds, the Blutkreuz Korps needs these undead soldiers to focus on only one objective, annihilating the enemy. With their Fast ability, the Axis Zombies can easily close in on their targets. Allied commanders will need to adapt quickly to these new enemies as they are both mindlessly fearless and sometimes appear impervious to gunfire.
Wow those looks great Duncan. I have been looking at Dust Tactics for a few months and one thing always bothered me.
The picture for most of their products are so small ( photos of the box ) Any chance to convince them to atleast up load better pics? I would have to see these guys end up same fate as AT-43
For example , medium panzer walkers , i would like to see all the varients built and displayed on the website ( GW does that )
I wonder if there are ever plans to sell single figures in the future, I wonder this after my dog made a nice snack out of a US ranger SGT (which wouldn't be so bad but he was one of the few I've actually painted)
Recently got the DUST resin scenery:
(DUST walker, Sigrid von Thaler by DUST; Project X PA trooper from Project X)
Absolutely some of the best resin castings ever seen, the texture is amazing, I NEVER painted any stone/ concrete like model structure that comes out so real!
I simple primed them dark grey, dry brush medium and light grey, added some rusted metal here and there and applied some MIG "Fresh Rust" pigments. DONE!
Decals are also from DUST.
http://www.dust-models.com/index.php
yep , interesting that they site the new tourney points as such a big hit .......................... when so few people are playing in tourneys , and noone i have met uses them . infact , when i mention the tourny points system to new players (who play or used to play 40K or other minis games ) they seem to think the same thing , why both , the simple point system works just fine .
if they were so necessary , and so great , then i would think they would have been considered from the start , not as an after thought so many months in , but then again , when this game started , it was for more than JUST a 40K crowd .
though i guess it will help them justify pushing the tourney system ...................................... that noone plays in .
sounds more like "we want this to be 40K JR. , so screw you if you dont like 40K "
its kinda funny though in the sad wizkids sort of way . i remember a while back when we had several exchanges over the need to push for the table top minis game , and all the people who are in favor of it said that the game could be promoted to both table top minis gamers and non minis gamers alike , just as easily . i a argued that once a company starts trying to push the game in 2 directions , one falls by the way side while the other gets the support , and this is te beginning of that . this is the beginning of pushing away the nonminis gamers , infavor of ONLY the minis gamers .
its only a matter of time till they drop the grid , add in army books , and make every unit cheesable , just like in 40K
to bad , this game was so simple , and so appealing to so many people , to bad they had to decide to just cater to the minis gamers , and lose the non minis gamers that found this game so approachable .
the old points system was not broken , and infact was beloved by many of us ............................... that dont matter to FFG .
i will continue on for a while , but i will REVISE the points for new units BACK to the original system that made this game a hit , and got it out the door , NOT the 40K wannabe that this will become .
one of the biggest pros that there was to this game , is that its NOT like all the other minis games ................................. well till now , when we have reached that slippery slope , and FFG just took that first step down it .
i hope the contract that FFG has with DG is not eternal , and that at some point DG gets it back , and makes it the hit it was , not the travesty it will become .
You can get it as a kit from Dust Studio already (1/35).
@Inquisitor
The old system was broken. It did not allow the team to flesh out the differences between the units pointwise. Not much of a problem fro a small boardgame, but when you plan to release a TT-version of it, it really gets annoying.
You will be able to play the boardgame, but you will also be able to play the TT with nearly the same set of stuff.
Duncan_Idaho wrote:You can get it as a kit from Dust Studio already (1/35).
@Inquisitor
The old system was broken. It did not allow the team to flesh out the differences between the units pointwise. Not much of a problem fro a small boardgame, but when you plan to release a TT-version of it, it really gets annoying.
You will be able to play the boardgame, but you will also be able to play the TT with nearly the same set of stuff.
the only point to the new point system is killing walkers , thats the only thing the new point system accounts for .
we were already playing on 4X6 foot table with the base point system , and everyone i demoed it to , and evey one i played it with liked it just fine , and when i would mention the tourny points system , they all agreed that it is fine the way it was .
I beg to differ, it creates problems for future developments since we do not have enough room to differentiate the units when using the old system.
It might be fine for you and those that play small games (and the boardgame is small compared to the TT-rules) but we won´t be able to stage the big battles that we plan for the TT.
We really need more than one digit AP if we want to balance the game. Else you will get what you fear. And the problem 40K has is not points, it`s mainly a management that does not want to transfer the game into the 21st century for fear of loosing customers but ironically does everything to loose them by just not improving the game and rising prices at a maddening pace.
As someone who invested in AT-43, how do I know that I won't get burned again by getting into Dust Tactics (both by the game rules and by Rackham's mismanagement)? In other words, what is so different about Dust Tactics that significantly improves it as a game over AT-43 and how is Rackham promising not to screw up this time?
And how about distribution? During the height of AT-43, I could not find certain units (UNA Steel Troopers Attachment Boxes) or gaming tools (Reversible Gaming Tiles and Bunkers) at all. And [insert deity here] help you if you wanted to buy old issues of Cry Havoc! for scenario rules and cards, especially for those of us in the U.S..
I think Rackham produces some beautiful stuff, but they have a history of alienating their fans (from Confrontation to AT-43) and hiding behind a wall of silence. Why should I give Rackham any more of my money when other companies actually take the time to address fan concerns and respond to customer feedback?
I think these are fair questions for me to ask if Rackham wants to earn my continued patronage.
pombe wrote:I think these are fair questions for me to ask if Rackham wants to earn my continued patronage.
Rackham is dead and buried and has nothing to do with Dust barring the fact AT-43 was supposed to be Dust.
Dust Tactics is produced and distributed by Fantasy Flight Games.
Close. The Dust universe was developed by Paolo Parente, who also wokred for Rackham, but it was his own independant project. The Dust Tactics game was developed and produced by Dust Games (With Paolo being one of the founding partners). DG tried first to partner with AEG for marketing and distribution. For unstated reasons, DG switched to Fantasy Flight Games for marketing and distribution last year. However DG still produces the game itself.
First: Game is developed by Dust Studio which is owned by Paolo Parente.
Second: Rackham is not involved anymore in it. But way back Dust was planned to be released as Alternate-Timeline 43. They switched to SF cause they wer not sure how customers would react to the WWII background.
Third: AEG realized very soon that they could not produce minis at a speed that was necessary to support the game, so it was transfered to a company that is ablte to do it: FFG.
Fourth: TT rules are under development by a very capable rules designer that has been for decades in the business.
rwwin wrote:The Dust universe was developed by Paolo Parente, who also wokred for Rackham, but it was his own independant project. The Dust Tactics game was developed and produced by Dust Games (With Paolo being one of the founding partners). DG tried first to partner with AEG for marketing and distribution. For unstated reasons, DG switched to Fantasy Flight Games for marketing and distribution last year. However DG still produces the game itself.
Duncan_Idaho wrote:First: Game is developed by Dust Studio which is owned by Paolo Parente.
Second: Rackham is not involved anymore in it. But way back Dust was planned to be released as Alternate-Timeline 43. They switched to SF cause they wer not sure how customers would react to the WWII background.
Third: AEG realized very soon that they could not produce minis at a speed that was necessary to support the game, so it was transfered to a company that is ablte to do it: FFG.
Thanks for the correction and information.
However, my questions still stand, especially because the same person who created AT-43 is in charge of Dust Tactics (and Dust Games/Studio).
So:
1) How is Dust Tactics a better game system than AT-43? Are there abusable tactics or units?
2) How do the Dust Tactics miniatures compare to AT-43?
3) I'm assuming that because FFG is handling it, there have been no distribution problems so far. Am I wrong?
4) How, if at all, did Paolo Parente play a role in Rackham's demise? And if he did play a role, how will I know he won't repeat his mistakes at Dust Games/Studio? Remember, Rackham hid behind a wall of silence. I am hoping that Dust Games/Studio has been much more forthcoming with their game development information and much more open to interacting with fans.
Duncan_Idaho wrote:Fourth: TT rules are under development by a very capable rules designer that has been for decades in the business.
This does not inspire confidence. It sounds like more hiding behind walls of silence. If this guy is so great and well known at rules writing, they should be shouting his name everywhere to get more attention to Dust Tactics. Blizzard was quick to announce that they had hired Andy Chambers and Mantic was equally quick to announce that they had hired Alessio Cavatore as a consultant, for example.
I want to emphasize that my tone in this post might come off as aggressive/argumentative, but that's not how I mean it to be. I am genuinely interested in Dust Tactics, BUT I am genuinely concerned, as well.
1) How is Dust Tactics a better game system than AT-43? Are there abusable tactics or units?
Part of the Dust Team has already worked in AT-43 and I can assure you that the more competent part of the team works at Dust Studio. A certain designer that favoured one army over the other is not with the team. They learned from the mistakes discovered during the lifetime of AT-43, i.e. rules are improved and better formulated, also the packaging now has all variants of one unit in one box. Board and TT will share quite some elements, but TT is also geared for way bigger battels and will contain certain elements that allow more action-reaction style of play.
2) How do the Dust Tactics miniatures compare to AT-43?
Packaging of variations > all in one box. Price has gone down for units. Units are preprimed instead of prepainted which saves you some work and still looks good on the table without any painting and also leaves it to yyou what kind of paint-scheme you want. And if you are absolutely paintophobic you can (at a price) get the deluxe version of the game which is painted at studio level. Detail has improved cause the incorporated in the new designs what they learned from the older designs.
3) I'm assuming that because FFG is handling it, there have been no distribution problems so far. Am I wrong?
Nope. Outisde US it might take a little bit longer until you get your stuff, but that´s the delay FFG has with all of its products whenn delivering outside US.
4) How, if at all, did Paolo Parente play a role in Rackham's demise? And if he did play a role, how will I know he won't repeat his mistakes at Dust Games/Studio? Remember, Rackham hid behind a wall of silence. I am hoping that Dust Games/Studio has been much more forthcoming with their game development information and much more open to interacting with fans.
In short: Rackham should have first gone with AT-43 and at a later point in time transfered Confrontation to plastic. Too much change for such a short period. In the end they diverted their portfolio too much and had to apply for protection. Later they were bought by an advertising/consulting-company which was tragically their demise since this time they did everything right but their parent company had other plans. Their parent company was already in financial trouble when they bought Rackham, but kept quiet and bought Rackham only to extract the money coming with the buy and avoiding bancruptcy for some more months. So, Rackham ordered stuff from factoriescause they got the go from their parent company, but the parent company never paid the orders. The whole case is now under investigation and has gone to court. The parent company will in probabaility be punished for thsi fraudulant behaviour, but that does not help Rackham anymore.
Also, staying with metal would not have helped Rackham. Metal miniatures sales were declining since the later minis were so detailed, that they attracted painters more than regular gamers. Also Confrontation got too complicated with more than 1000 different cards and units. PP has the same problem and I am wondering how they will manage to avoid the rules creep that killed the olde Confrontation game in the end.
This does not inspire confidence. It sounds like more hiding behind walls of silence. If this guy is so great and well known at rules writing, they should be shouting his name everywhere to get more attention to Dust Tactics. Blizzard was quick to announce that they had hired Andy Chambers and Mantic was equally quick to announce that they had hired Alessio Cavatore as a consultant, for example.
And for a good reason. I am sick off how much flak e.g. Alessio got from some forum trolls when it was announced that he will write the Warpath rules. In the past many of us game designers and poeple from the business were present on forums, but thanks to some forum trolls only a few of us are left to activly participate in the community. The name of the designer will be named in due time. Also: Mantic released Alessios name several months after they contracted him.
Your men are fatigued and without morale; their fellow soldiers have been killed in brutal encounters with the enemy. Walkers lie broken on the battlefield. How can you continue on? You’ll need new units, a new walker, a new hero...
Fantasy Flight Games is pleased to announce the upcoming release of Dust Tactics: Revised Core Set, the tactical miniatures board game of brutal combat for 2-4 players based in an alternate 1940s universe!
A new point system
Last February we presented the official Dust Tactics tournament rules that introduced unique army point costs for all the units available to date. The response to these point costs was enthusiastically positive; players were inspired by the possibilities brought to the game experience, and said it made a great game even better.
Following on the success that the tournament rules have enjoyed, the decision was made to adopt the tournament army point system for the Dust Tactics game overall. This change allows for even more dynamic game design and balance while keeping the same overall enjoyable Dust Tactics play experience. This new point system is featured in Operation “SeeLöwe” and will continue to be the army point standard for all future releases.
The new point values (pdf, 220 KB) for all units released before Operation “SeeLöwe” are available for download on the support page.
If you prefer to have unit cards with the new point costs, you can pick up a Dust Tactics Unit Card Upgrade Pack, which includes cards with the new point costs for all units released before Operation “SeeLöwe.” For more information, visit our Dust Tactics Unit Card Upgrade Pack article.
Mission Briefings
The year is 1947, and the war spawned by Germany’s invasion of Poland never ended, instead growing and spreading worldwide. The world’s superpowers clash over the revolutionary VK, a rare and mysterious alien power source that fuels the construction of incredible weaponry. Elite troops and massive combat walkers wage violent battles to claim the world’s VK deposits, because controlling VK and denying it to the enemy will decide the outcome of the war.
Dust Tactics: Revised Core Set features new cover art and includes:
All new, never-before-released miniatures exclusive to this Core Set
An updated and comprehensive rulebook
The “Victory Bridge” scenario book
Six custom dice
Two double-sided terrain posters (each the size of six terrain tiles)
10 unit cards
Nine double-sided hazard squares
Two ammo-crates
Two anti-tank traps
Produced in a smaller more compact box, the Dust Tactics: Revised Core Set is the perfect introduction for new players or a great expansion for veteran players who own the original Dust Tactics Core Set.
The included terrain posters unique to the Revised Core Set introduce Dust Tactics players to new terrain elements featured in the “Victory Bridge” scenario book. These terrain posters are a new warfare experience due to the new environment they offer players: a bridge and building structures, as well as new terrain symbols.
The “Victory Bridge” scenario book offers players six never-before-seen scenarios with which they can carry out a campaign. England’s Cobden Bridge has suddenly become the strategic location for gaining access to Southampton. Can your faction take control of the bridge, and gain the advantage of advancing into southern England?
Further, these posters are not the only addition to our Dust Tactics terrain library. Dust Tactics players can pick up a copy of our Dust Tactics Terrain Tile Set to expand their battlefield. Additionally, we will continue to produce terrain tiles in upcoming campaign expansions. Visit our Dust Tactics Terrain Tile Set article for more information.
Your Allied forces
Reinforcements have appeared, their speedy arrival financed from the deep pockets of the secret Allied organization ASOCOM. The Allies are ready to say a deadly “hello” to their Axis foes with their new forces: the BlackHawk, Death Dealers, Hell Boys, Hammers, and a new hero named Rhino.
The high-tech BlackHawk can send a deluge of firepower against any infantry unit or tank. Use the walker’s speed to reach the enemy then turn BlackHawk’s cannons red hot when you increase its rate of fire.
The aptly named Hammers are ready to smash through Axis lines with their turbo-charged fists. These mighty forces are brutally fast and effective. While the Death Dealers have no special ability, they still deal out savage attacks with their full arsenal of weaponry. The Allied Hell Boys will certainly turn up the heat on the battlefield with their attacks. Get them close to any Axis walker then give them hell.
Sergeant Major William Springfield, aka Rhino, can become quite feverish in his devoted fight against enemy troops. Uncontrollable in his rage, Rhino will vigorously attack his foes, resulting in catastrophic Axis losses.
The Axis response
The Blutkreuz Korps refuse to be bested on any field of battle. When their spies heard about new Allied troops they found troops to counter the new arrival. The Axis high command is pleased to introduce the Heavy Flak Grenadiers, Sturmpionieren, Heavy Laser Grenadiers, the new walker, Hans, and fellow hero, Lara.
The Axis’ Hans should always be deployed to have it scout ahead and devastate any Allied walkers it finds. One hit is deadly to most tanks.
Both the Heavy Flak Grenadiers and the Heavy Laser Grenadiers are welcome additions to an Axis army. The Heavy Flak Grenadiers have an incredible rate of fire to attack against any sluggish target. The Heavy Laser Grenadiers are equally powerful. Pit them against Allied tanks; for every hit they deal incredible damage. Sturmpionieren possess terrifying weapons to be used in the course of battle, and are fast on their feet.
Leading these new troops into the fray is Lara Walter, a fearless queen of war. Shots from both of her MG 44 Zwei’s will annihilate infantry. Lara shares her fiery attitude with any squad she joins, spurring them to an effective advance.
Get ready to fight the war anew with these all new, never-before-released miniatures when Dust Tactics: Revised Core Set is released in the third quarter of 2011!
With the intimidating forces of the rival bloc spread out on the battlefield before you, what kind of army will you build?
Fantasy Flight Games is pleased to announce the upcoming release of the Dust Tactics Unit Card Upgrade Pack!
Gather your forces
The affordable Dust Tactics Unit Card Upgrade Pack includes unit cards for all the units released before Operation “SeeLöwe,” including unit cards for all preview miniatures available from Dust Tactics Game Night kits.
Dust Tactics’ previously published unit cards have been reprinted in the Dust Tactics Unit Card Upgrade Pack and have been updated to the new army point costs featured in the Revised Core Set.
The new point values for all units released before Operation “SeeLöwe” are also available for download on the support page.
For more information about the new Dust Tactics point system, please read our Dust Tactics: Revised Core Set announcement article.
Be sure to scan enemy lines for more Dust Tactics news in the future and get ready to upgrade your troops’ cards when the Dust Tactics Unit Card Upgrade Pack is released in the third quarter of 2011!
“Sir, do you know what the environment will be when we land?” The young soldier yelled over the noise of the plane’s engine.
The Captain shook his head. “You have to be ready for anything, private.”
Fantasy Flight Games is thrilled to announce the upcoming release of the Dust Tactics Terrain Tile Set!
New locations
The Dust Tactics Terrain Tile Set includes 12 double-sided terrain tiles and more to expand your Dust Tactics map library. These exciting components feature snow, warehouse, water, and bridge locations on which your Dust Tactics troops can wage their war. The Dust Tactics Terrain Tile Set also includes the Operation: Blue Thunder campaign book found in the original Core Set. There are eight scenarios featured in the campaign book as well as three bonus scenarios to play on massive maps that are 12 tiles large.
This expansion allows new Dust Tactics players to experience the scenarios available in the original Dust Tactics Core Set, as well as three never-before-seen scenarios for 12 tiles. To learn more about the Dust Tactics: Revised Core Set, read our announcement article.
Players who own the original Dust Tactics Core Set will be able to expand their experience with the additional locations found on these terrain tiles and the three bonus scenarios.
Further, the included double-sided structure tiles allow your forces to battle in an urban environment, recently an experience only available through Operation “SeeLöwe.”
More Dust Tactics news will be radioed to your commander in the near future. Get ready to deploy your troops to new locations when the Dust Tactics Terrain Tile Set is released in the third quarter of 2011!
1)I beg to differ, it creates problems for future developments since we do not have enough room to differentiate the units when using the old system.
2)It might be fine for you and those that play small games (and the boardgame is small compared to the TT-rules) but we won´t be able to stage the big battles that we plan for the TT.
3)We really need more than one digit AP if we want to balance the game. Else you will get what you fear. And the problem 40K has is not points, it`s mainly a management that does not want to transfer the game into the 21st century for fear of loosing customers but ironically does everything to loose them by just not improving the game and rising prices at a maddening pace.
ive played minis games for 20 years or so , and untill FFG decided to screw it up , this game fixed alot of the problems that other minis games suffer from .
1) then they should have sold iit that way from the start , not package and sell one product and 9 months alter decide to sell another . as for me and many others , the old system works fine . unless you ad in army books that require certain builds for the game like 40K does , there is no need for POINTS differentiation , because players could choose what they wanted based on how they play .
had FFG supprted both systems , which they could have , it would still be a friendly game for every one . now FFG seems to just want to market to the 40K crowd , and noone else . one of the best points players could make to entice others into playing this game is that its NOT 40k , but now thats what FFG wants it to become .
2) a scewy point system that only accounts for attacking walkers doesnt make it better at stageing big battles . we can stage as large of battles as we want using the basic system . and having the grid doesnt limit the size of battels either since the units still take up the same amount of space on the grid as they do on the TT , if anything , TT rules will require more space for the same number of units as players try to spread them out on the board .
3) the change over in points doesnt balance the game unless they impose army books on the game to force people to take certain army builds and require them to take vehicles , just like the new points system requires you to take a hero . the tourney points arent accurate , and they dont balance the game unless as i said the basis of the game is ONLY to kill walkers . and your arguement that 40K is fine , but GW wont takle it forward admits that 40K IS messed up and behind the times and needs to change . what FFG is doing with dust is taking it from the great game it started as less than a year ago and turning it into the mess 40K is .
if FFG wanted to sell WH40K jr , they should have done so from the start , not go back 9 months in and force people who bought in all this time to all play a 40K wannabe !
Duncan_Idaho wrote:You have an axe to grind with 40K. Fine. But don`t expect further answers from me.
Oh and BTW, the old point system made it way to easy to kill walkers since infantry and walkers were not well balanced. This gets rectified.
And this is not from a person that is just a gamer but one that actually works on the game.
i know you work on the game , you keep saying "we" when you refer to what FFG is doing , so forgive me if i dont just bow down and kiss your feet , i dont hold you in the same awe that you apparently hold your self .
but again , the points system you use doesnt "Fix" anything , and only reinforces that you guys are designing the system around the idea that tanks are all that matter .
your previous posts also point to the idea that rather than having a game that statnds out from the rest , you hired a pro that has worked on other tabale top games because you want it to be JUST LIKE THE REST ! which of course will keep it in so much good company , soince so many 40K clones fill the pages of DEAD games that failed , crashed , and burned , even those put out by big companies that thought they knew what they were doing .
you pulled a bait and switch , obviously you wanted to sell a cheap 40K ripoff , but you should have said that from the start , so i wouldnt have wasted time and money on the pile of drek you want to make this game into !
i didnt lie for over 9 months , YOU , and the rst of the FFG staff did .
you marketed it to a non minis gamer crowd , and now you want to make it into an ONLY minis gamer crowd !
sounds like alot of the same "we know it all , customers are dumb " stuff we see from GW , and the same mistakes that rackham suffered from as it sank .
anywho on a more positive note, i have a fairly large 40K collection and i keep peeking at Dust Tactics. I am not sure why but it really seems interesting and i know i will eventually get either of the starter boxes if not both.
i have been holding back on buying anything untill the TT rules come out, and while i like the Germans the Soviet walker has my eye and i eagerly await a line for them.
Go, design your own game if you think you can do it better, meanwhile FFG at least earns money with the game and secures the further future of the game.
P.S: You are the first user ever for whom i push the Ignore button. Consider yourself somethin special.
I have been going through my recently purchased starter box and it is awesome.
A few initial thoughts:
I like the large unit cards with the pictures, it helps to see what you are reading the rules for and the size of the cards is just great.
The miniatures move!!! This has to be the coolest thing possible. Yes it is limited but none the less way fun. It will make dramatic poses while on the tabletop easier to accomplish.
Having pre-primed miniatures was an ingenious move, I have been inspired like non-other to get the guys painted. While non-painted minis I have to break through the mental wall of having to prime and get the model ready, as well as how I want to prime etc. Yet the pre-primed looks better than any thing I could do on my own with out dropping tons of cash to do it.
Game play looks fun and fast I will let you know once I do.
Edit for a question: @Duncan you work on Dust rules? If so what can or can't you discuss about them? Awesome!!
I'm seriously looking at Dust Tactics but I'm a little confused about what people are saying. Is DT leaving the board game genre and moving to TT? Would the TT game still use the tiles, simplified movement/LOS? If I want to get into the game, should I wait for the new starter box, get the old one, or get both ?
As far as I can see they are sticking to their board game roots, they're just changing a minor aspect of the game. Right now most units are worth the same point value ("2") but this will be changed into a different system.
I'm really starting to like these models the more I see em..
Sorry for being a noob but, this is a board game? or was a board game? If you have units of guys running around, how big would your board end up being? Like is it a 40k type of game with a big table, or more like 1 squad vs 1 squad?
I'm seriously looking at Dust Tactics but I'm a little confused about what people are saying. Is DT leaving the board game genre and moving to TT? Would the TT game still use the tiles, simplified movement/LOS? If I want to get into the game, should I wait for the new starter box, get the old one, or get both ?
DT will stay a boardgame, but TT-rules will additionally realeased in the future. Except for the seperately released TT-book you will just need what you already have for the boardgame. You can choose whether you want on one day play on the board or on the other on a tabletop. The TT will use normal tt-scenery and you can of course use the tanktraps, boxes etc. The TT will not use the tiles.
@box
Get the old one and the new one if you plan to play Axis and Allies. Both are good deals and besides from the books and supporting stuff do have completely different units.
@Pael
Let´s say I work in a counseling way on the game and also do the translation for the German market.
Thanks for the information. It certainly inspires a lot more confidence in a product when a developer actually interacts with the fans, despite having to deal with the negativity.
I've held off on picking up Dust Tactics, because of what happened with AT-43. But now that someone has answered my concerns, I'll be sure to look into picking up the core set.
If it's a normal sized board game, then wouldn't it be hard to fit all those models on there? Any quick/brief summary on how the game plays?
And the models are pre-primed? That starter box looks like a nice deal with plenty of stuff for 2 players to get started. My only real worry with new games is having no one to play with, but if I have all the stuff we both need it'll be easier to get people to play.
I just want to weigh in on this thread as I've been a fan of Dust Tactics since launch. Now I got out of Warhammer 40K, and at the time was considering abandoning the hobby all together. Luckily before I threw in the towel I found AT-43 and Dust Tactics, and Frankly I love them both. I have been able to play Dust Tactics with my friends who like board games, friends who like large scale war-games, and most importantly my GF.... who actively disliked 40K.
As a board game Dust Tactics is amazing. the game works in its current form, its easy to play, doesnt take long to set up, has great tactical depth and the models looks really good. I really can't think of anything negative to say about DT or FFGATM, especially in light of the current shenanigans being played by GW.
-As for the New Starter Kit, I'm all for this, new models and cards even if they are some re-purposed models from other kits still adds versatility and choice to an already good game.
-Updated cards converting old models to the new points system. I can see how people may be upset, espeacially if they just bought the game... but hey FFG put a PDF of the new cost up for free on their website. But I agree with the slight balance issues. One of my friends could not understand how the Laser Grenadiers, and the Recon Grenadiers were the same cost. (Did not stop him from fielding two units with Sigrid)
-As for the TT rules, I'm having a hard time seeing why people would not want this. Its a completely optional way to play the game on a larger scale, in a more 3D setting with the models you have ALREADY BOUGHT. Listen FFG has made mistakes in the past, but they have been updating, supporting and creating new units and scenarios for this game at a rate that impresses me so I find it hard to complain about them.
Over all if your thinking of getting into this game. DO IT! If your mad about changes being made to the game, look at GW and 40K for the last 5 years and then think it over again.
So Table Top rules and box set are coming to Dust Tactics soon. How will this affect the current box set, expansions, and additional units being sold now? That is, if I buy the first core box set now, will the second core box set alter the usability of the contents in the first box set? Or will it merely append additional rules for Table Top play, but maintain the rules and balance for the Board Game? I admit that it would be nice to have both options (Table Top and Board Game), but I am concerned that the current Board Game will be significantly altered to accommodate the Table Top rules.
I guess what I am asking is:
Would it be wiser to simply wait for the release of the second core box set? Or would it not make a difference as the Board Game aspect will be untouched with the second release (and the Table Top rules will also be made available on the website)?
Is it likely that the units supplied in the second box set will be different in order to be balanced for both rule sets?
@Duncan_Idaho - Thank you very much for posting the information you can about DT!
I have been purchasing the DT releases as they come out in preparation of the TT rules release. It is great to know they are underway on that front. I understand you will be able to release who is working on the rules at some point in the future.
Are you at liberty to say if AT-43 fans will see similarities between the DTTT rules and the AT-43 rules?
One thing though @Duncan_Idaho:
As a German working on the game, can you make the designers take more care about the naming of German units? Like "Untertote" instead of "Untote" or "Sturmgrenadieren Squad" instead of "Sturmgrenadiere Squad". They are better than average and often get things right, but sometimes ...
@Names
That´s one of the thinsg I do, counselling them regarding German/Russian/Japanese/Chinese names names. Undertote I am not completely happy with it but it is such an established name in the comic universe and is also a nod to certain pulp books that it was kept. But we will have an eye out for names that are to disturbing in their native language. Also quite some spelling mistakes have been corrected for the second production run.
So Table Top rules and box set are coming to Dust Tactics soon. How will this affect the current box set, expansions, and additional units being sold now? That is, if I buy the first core box set now, will the second core box set alter the usability of the contents in the first box set? Or will it merely append additional rules for Table Top play, but maintain the rules and balance for the Board Game? I admit that it would be nice to have both options (Table Top and Board Game), but I am concerned that the current Board Game will be significantly altered to accommodate the Table Top rules.
Big Box: The big package and quite a good deal. Get is as long as you can get it.
Revised Box: Contains the revised rules which are identical with the rules in the big box, but are extended and revised. Minis in there are completely different from the big box and the extras are a little bit less than in the big box (poster instead of tiles, less dice etc.) Still if you have already bought the big box you will more than your moneys worth if you buy it too.
Tile Package: Conatins the 9 tiles from the big box + 3 new tiles. Also contains the scenario book from the big box with 3 additional new scenarios and got also revised.
Upgrade Pack: contains the cards from the big box and up to operation Seelöwe that got revised and the new AP.
Tabletop rules: Right at the moment the plan is that you can buy everything for the boardgame and just need to buy the TT-rules get you some tabletop and scenery and can play the tt-version. If you are absolutely not interested in the boardgame you wait until the tt-rules are released and just get the minis you want and forgoe the boardgame extensions, though you will miss out on some fun .
The game is completely modular and YOU decide when and how your are going to play it as a board- or tt-game. The board game will stay the way it is. You will probably have to buy more minis for use in the TT since it is going to be designed to also accomodate bigger battles that the board game could not handle with an unnecessary amount of change. But the core of both lines will be the same, but the TT will cater a little bit more to those who loved AT-43, SST or similar games.
Duncan_Idaho wrote:@Names
That´s one of the thinsg I do, counselling them regarding German/Russian/Japanese/Chinese names names. Undertote I am not completely happy with it but it is such an established name in the comic universe and is also a nod to certain pulp books that it was kept. But we will have an eye out for names that are to disturbing in their native language. Also quite some spelling mistakes have been corrected for the second production run.
So Table Top rules and box set are coming to Dust Tactics soon. How will this affect the current box set, expansions, and additional units being sold now? That is, if I buy the first core box set now, will the second core box set alter the usability of the contents in the first box set? Or will it merely append additional rules for Table Top play, but maintain the rules and balance for the Board Game? I admit that it would be nice to have both options (Table Top and Board Game), but I am concerned that the current Board Game will be significantly altered to accommodate the Table Top rules.
Big Box: The big package and quite a good deal. Get is as long as you can get it.
Revised Box: Contains the revised rules which are identical with the rules in the big box, but are extended and revised. Minis in there are completely different from the big box and the extras are a little bit less than in the big box (poster instead of tiles, less dice etc.) Still if you have already bought the big box you will more than your moneys worth if you buy it too.
Tile Package: Conatins the 9 tiles from the big box + 3 new tiles. Also contains the scenario book from the big box with 3 additional new scenarios and got also revised.
Upgrade Pack: contains the cards from the big box and up to operation Seelöwe that got revised and the new AP.
Tabletop rules: Right at the moment the plan is that you can buy everything for the boardgame and just need to buy the TT-rules get you some tabletop and scenery and can play the tt-version. If you are absolutely not interested in the boardgame you wait until the tt-rules are released and just get the minis you want and forgoe the boardgame extensions, though you will miss out on some fun .
The game is completely modular and YOU decide when and how your are going to play it as a board- or tt-game. The board game will stay the way it is. You will probably have to buy more minis for use in the TT since it is going to be designed to also accomodate bigger battles that the board game could not handle with an unnecessary amount of change. But the core of both lines will be the same, but the TT will cater a little bit more to those who loved AT-43, SST or similar games.
I have a few questions for you if you could answer them.
First, the upgrade cards, it it ONE copy of each card? Like say I have two if the old sets, I would need two cards sets or what?
Tabletop Rules, Oliver said to me they are being made, but do you know when they will be out? Year? Half?
Also for Tabletop rules, all the Special Characters are in the Expansions, so I would have to but the expansions with tiles to get the characters?
Are the unit cards still used in the Tabletop version?
For tabletop, how big of armies? Like half a dozen walkers and a dozen infantry squads? More? Less? I'm deciding weather to collect everything or just one Army.
The upgrade cards should be one of every unit judging from the numbers you get in the package, i.e that´s what I deducted from the thickness of the package. What´s exactly in there: You have to check the FFG website for it when it comes out.
BrookM wrote:We are getting a revised "Operation Blue Thunder" booklet with the map tile pack.
I know, but if I don't have that pack, I would appreciate a pdf to update the scenarios like the current pdf with the new point values for the units.
This could be rather short like "Blue Thunder scenario 1: both sides x points each; Scenario 2:..."
I would ask in the FFG forums but I don't know if FFG staff is contributing there at all.
From what I've gathered from the current releases and a rather poorly done "source book" tanks are bad, robots are good. Though there was a hybrid, a robot with tracks instead of legs.
Looking on their online store, they have the old box set for $100 and the new one listed but you can't buy it yet.. would it be worth it to get the old one? Seems like there's a lot of models in it... will I end up with a bunch of old rules and cards that are useless? Or is it worth it just for the models? Or for a total new player, am I better off just waiting for the updated box set?
I know my game group is pretty much all about 40K and WFB but I'm thinking since the box set has both armies it would be easier to get folks to play a game here and there since they won't need to invest in the game too if they don't wanna. I'm looking for something like that where we can just sit down and play without having to buy a ginormous textbook to learn how, and then dump $500 on a new army...
It'll be worth it just for the models and tiles. From what I've gathered the rules won't be changed all that much and the only thing wrong with the cards is the point value at the bottom, other than that, go for it!
I have just purchased the "old" that is not so old set and I am not disappointed. The only changes are the points values and you can download those from ffg. The cards are still applicable since the stats have not changed etc.
Everything else is stellar from the miniatures to the dice to the tiles. Really good product.
One thin I would say "sucked" was the comic book but for a freebie who can really complain?
If anything the comic book put my girl in the evil "MUHAHAHA die Ami schwein" nazi chick mood she needed to "properly" play the game. She's a Sigrid x laser squad fangirl for life now.
OK cool, I guess I'll start with the old one then and I can get the newer one later if I like it.
about the models.. are they "real" models that we gotta build like GW plastics? Or more like little action figures? Since it's a board game can you pack it all up like monopoly when you're done or am I gonna want to get foam trays and all that stuff?
Pre-assembled so to say, much like AT-43, but with these you can twist the torsos and reposition the heads. And they can take a beating, so personally I see no need for trays, maybe with exception for some of the robot parts.
Necros wrote:OK cool, I guess I'll start with the old one then and I can get the newer one later if I like it.
about the models.. are they "real" models that we gotta build like GW plastics? Or more like little action figures? Since it's a board game can you pack it all up like monopoly when you're done or am I gonna want to get foam trays and all that stuff?
As others have said it's a great deal and has different figures than the upcoming new core box. If you're going to get the base set and use it as is, then you can just toss the infantry figures back in the box without much though. The primer coat from the factory is very tough. The robots need some care but can go back in the plastic trays in the box.
If you're going to get the premium edition or paint the figures yourself, then you'll probably want to treat them like painted 40K plastics (i.e. some sort of protection so the paint doesn't come off).
Honestly, the main reason I want it is cuz I think the models are cool and I wanna paint them I actually don't get to play much at all these days, but I'd still like to learn it for the few times I do... So if it's fast paced and easy to learn that's a big bonus for me.
What's the premium edition? or is that what they call the old starter set?
Premium Edition: All boxes painted up to studio standard ( there are way more premium boxes out right now besides the starter box). You can get premium either via Dust Studios or FFG directly.
@Models
If you know the AT-43 models DT-models are one notch up when it comes to detail/design and the prepiming/preassembling helps a lot to get a quick start. And the assambling is quite good.
Ah .. well, since i'm going to paint myself it'd be a waste to get the premium editions but I can see how that would come in real handy for the folks that don't like to paint
Looked over the rules PDF, seems like it'll be real fun and easy to learn
Duncan_Idaho wrote:@GIOX Please watch your language.
Go, design your own game if you think you can do it better, meanwhile FFG at least earns money with the game and secures the further future of the game.
P.S: You are the first user ever for whom i push the Ignore button. Consider yourself somethin special.
Agreed! And, Duncan, I want to congratulate you on being so polite to that troll, GIOX. I would get really mad, if, like you I had worked hard on designing a game, and then, becuase of one change to the rules, people start flipping you and your company the digital bird.
_Tim?
P.S. And, yes, when the new box comes out, I am probably gonna scrape together some funds and get it! It will be around $45 on Miniaturemarket, and that is, IMO, the PERFECT price for me.
I just noticed something as I'm going over my Allied decal sheet. Those names listed there are for the most part the names of characters, both released and unreleased. The new Allied core set hero is named Rhino and what's on the decal sheet? Four Rhino decals. There's also a "OZZ 117" name decal and one for the Deathdealers. Big question is, can we expect a "Lola" sooner or later for the Allies and a "Angela" for the Germans?
@Tim
Before you get the wrong ideas. I am not belonging to FFG or am the rules designer of the game. I am just a Freelancer that works for many companies in the business and tries to get his informations right.
What will happen to Joe and Sigrid by the way when they phase out the old starter set? While I'm nagging, any word on when we can expect Johnny "One Eye" and Stefan?
BrookM wrote:What will happen to Joe and Sigrid by the way when they phase out the old starter set? While I'm nagging, any word on when we can expect Johnny "One Eye" and Stefan?
Guess they might get a resin treatment from Dust Games themselves. They supposedly have plans for releasing at least some of the 1/48 infantry in unpainted resin versions and heroes make the most sense to be done first.
what's the difference between dust games and fantasy flight? or are they both the same? I just don't wanna invest in a game and then have a new "official" one come out suddenly that's all different
Necros wrote:what's the difference between dust games and fantasy flight? or are they both the same? I just don't wanna invest in a game and then have a new "official" one come out suddenly that's all different
Dust Games is (AFAIK) in charge of designing the game, writing the fluff, and stuff like that. FFG produces the game and markets it.
BrookM wrote:You mean the "Buy 2 get 1 free" terrain deal?
Hardly a deal if you have to pay for the postage as well. My only complain about this game so far is that FFG should legalize all the models put out by Dust Models.
Encounter top-secret enemy technology at the naval base of Scapa Flow during Operation “SeeLöwe,” a campaign expansion for Dust Tactics. While the Axis powers seek to seize or destroy a revolutionary new Allied aircraft carrier, the Allies get their first glimpse at Markus, leader of the Axis war gorillas, and a master of combat at range C, a range designation clarified in the rules.
New Tech, New Rules
Additional rules detail how buildings impact cover and movement, introduce reactive fire, and let you control the Allies’ first ever “phaser” weapons. You can also find rules for Heroic Attack and learn how “Ozz 117” can inspire troops to incredible feats.
The rulebook also contains previously unreleased intelligence reports on the Blutkreuz Korps and their research into genetic engineering and the Wiederbeleben Serum, along with its astonishing revivifying powers!
Before you launch your attack, check out the new rules of engagement for Operation “SeeLöwe” (pdf, 3.2 MB), now available for download on the support page.
Knowledge is power as both sides bring new technological and scientific advances to the war effort!
The rules also contain again the revised point values and as an added bonus revised point values for all scenarios of Blue Thunder and Operation Cyclone.
Sweet thanks for the find!!! I for one like the new points values. I dislike the whole one or two points for stuff, I like my numbers to be big, big I tells ya!
Not much, You will get improved unit AP with the new core set and if you really wish to have the new cards you can buy the upgrade pack which contains the upgraded cards also from Operation Cyclone.
So, what's the difference between Dust Tactics from Fantasy Flight and Paolo Parente’s Dust? Looks like the later is selling models and decals and stuff, but are they the same as what FF does? Or are they just pro-painted versions of the FF models? Or all new models in resin or something? Do they have any models that FF doesn't make?
I just ordered the old starter set on Amazon with a gift card I had, I'll most likely get the new one too when that comes out eventually. Only real concern is my game group rarely wants to play anything but GW stuff, but I'm hoping if I have both armies and they don't need to invest at first it might be easier to introduce em to something new.
Biggest changes I've noticed so far are some changes in the background history. Like the removal of SS units during the coup of '43 (the official "source" book shows active SS units serving in 1947) and the exact year German robots first started taking to the battle field.
I think it's mostly FFG trying to clean things up and make it more friendly to everybody. Shame really, I painted my Blutkreuz up as SS, makes them easier to hate and fight.
Stormwell's correct. The DUST universe is Paolo Parente's baby, with FF producing the actual games under license.
Paolo's team produce the occasional new model that goes up for sale on his DUST site, but the newer ones aren't (as far as I know) including game cards as it breached the contract with FF or some such thing. They are more collector/modeller items than new game units.
I do like the landing craft that Brook pointed out. Not sure I can justify any though... sadly.
I haven't actually played it yet, but after reading through the "boardgame" rules, it still plays a lot like a table top game.. you just don't need a tape measure. You set up your board tiles on your table, and you can still use model terrain if you want, in fact the box set comes with some ammo crates and tank traps. You just move or shoot a certain # of squares instead of inches.
If you do want to get into the game I'd buy the starter set while it's still available, it has a lot of models and the new starter set will come with less stuff. But if you combine the 2 you'll have a real good sized army. Actually 2 armies of equal size, since you'll get stuff for both factions.
Alpharius wrote:The only thing holding me back is the lack of the rumored/pending table top rules.
Weird War II is one of my favorite gaming genres, come on FFG, make with the rules already!
I speculate the sometime next year will be the tabletop rules. In the back of the rules from the start it details the next six box sets. Each set adds a new set of rules and abilities of models. Soooo when FFG has released those six then the table top rules should be right behind. It is like they are slowy getting all the fans ready to go from board game to tabletop.
One- As a player gets each expansion he learns the new rules.
Two- Same player gets more miniatures to play with as well, with each new expansion.
Three- TT rules released and everyone who has been playing has just enough miniatures to buy the new rules and get playing.
Four- The miniatures provided in each expansion make up only "half" a TT army so collecting is still possible.
The only other guess I have is that the Russians and Vrill will either release with the TT rules or there are a few more expansions planned to introduce them to the game.
Remember this post comes with a bucket load of salt since I am only speculating with my own opinions.
The Vrill army is one of those expansions, can't remember the name. Paper Clip was it? Or was that the one with the commando force and undead army? That's the one I'm looking forward to the most.
@necros That is the question. Most likely there will be expansion sets available. I see it either being Vrill vs. SinoSoviets to showcase the new rules that the Vrill will surely bring. It could also come as an independant expansion for each army, which I thin is highly unlikely.
Now for wishlisting, I would think it amazing if the released Vrill vs. SinoSoviet as the intrductionary forces for the TT rules!!!
I'm kinda hoping they'll keep the board game rules and sets like they are, and have the table top rules be an add on book you can get or pdf download or whatever.
And maybe also do a faction starter pack for each army that will be like the contents as the starter box, but just the models so you'll get a hero, 2 units and a walker for a little cheaper than if you bought them separately.
I haven't the foggiest in all honesty. I'm guessing it'll probably count as a wall or other solid obstacle feature that you can't see or move through. Me, I'm probably getting it just for the cheap source of extra ammo crates.
Looks like they just released an organized play / league pack with 2 new heroes, Action Jackson and Totenmeister (I think they're new, but I'm too new to know how new they are).
Sooo, here is a question for Duncan_Idaho: when can we expect to see Soviets? There is a TON of stuff available for the Germans and Americans, but for me, the real selling point is when I get to use Soviets. Red Blok where my favorite faction in AT-43, and any Red-Blokish faction for Dust would have me really excited.
According to the old release plan Axis And Allies was planned for this year and Vrill and Sinosoviets for next year, but you have to ask FFG whether or not they will follow the old release plan.
Cheers, Duncan! I will pop on over and see if I can get a response.
Anyways, I have finally formulated a plan of attack for collecting Dust:
Phase 1: Buy an Axis Panzer Walker and a American Medium Assault walker.
Phase 2: Either repeat step one, or get a Command units/two other units for each side.
Phase 3: By the time I get here, it will be my birthday (October 3rd), so I will ask for the Revised Starter set, and the tile set and revised card set.
Following my 3 phase plan, I will have 2-3 mechs for each army, 6 foot units, and a good sized bunch of tiles. After I get through phase 3, Christmas will be coming up, so I can expect to round out my collection with some more Medium walkers, or maybe the original base game. Then I will be set, at least until the Sinosoviets and Vrill come out!
Wow, if the Vrill look remotely like that, I am going to be buying them up. It looks really spiky and uncomfortable, and incredibly complex! Just right for an alien species, I think.
yeah I like the look of that model but I think that's a bigger resin model thats meant to look super detailed, models for the game would probably be a little more simplified like less cables and stuff.
I dont think it clashes with the art they shown for the Vrill (which look alot like the Cogs in AT43). The Hecaton is a robot not an actual alien (unless its cybernetic or something) The Box for the Hecaton is labelled as Vrill Heavy Warmachine. Personally I like the fact that it looks so alien and not just another Gundam clone like the Cogs had in AT43.
Perhaps to clarify: here we have an awesome robot that truly looks alien and its pilot looks like a grey, to me those two don't go together well. Please don't remind me of the Cogs, ugh.
Well, I went ahead and bought the core set. Methinks it will be well worth the money.
Also, I plan on demoing it pretty frequently at my FLGS, which sadly doesn't sell Dust. They only have the starter in a glass cabinet on display. Maybe I can drum up some interest, since FFG really does not seem interested in marketing the game at all...
They're marketing it.. the marketing folks at GW taught them everything they know!
Actually they have a big tournament planned for GenCon I think.. I think the game is still pretty new so it will just take some time to catch on, I always felt word of mouth will sell a game better than any ad can.
If you can get some folks interested and your store's owner is smart he'll see people are interested and start stocking more
I got a second core set from Maelstrom and I'm not going to ebay it like some donkey-caves, seeing as the core set is the best and cheapest way to bulk out armies. Right now I'm at two core sets, a command squad for each faction and two extra bots per each faction, giving us a nice selection to pick from for all missions currently available. Now if only my FLGS would receive their order of Spec Ops krauts and yanks I'd be really happy, that way I can finally use artillery more effectively and take a crack at sniping Sigrid and Mannie.
I know, I know, I'm more upset at the supplier my FLGS chose for this. Instead of shipping it to the UK they instead go right around the world and stop along every port on the way.
What a wicked model that is! Makes the AT-43 Kolossus look like poo.
QFT! Makes me really want to see what the studio will design for the Sinosoviet Type 3/4 infantry.
Ok, here is a question: Would it be a good idea to buy 2 of the original core sets? It just seems that every one I ask on Board Game Gekk insists that you need at least 2 of the original core set, maybe even 4! Seems a little bit overkill to me, I guess...
Well I never played but I just have 1 core set, and it seems like plenty of models to me. Add that to the new core set when it comes out and a command squad for axis and allies and I'll have 2 real good sized armies for me and a friend to play with.
Has there been any news about the advanced tabletop miniature rules? I'd love to hear just a simple yes or no about this, considering there was some talk about it a while back.
That´s not Stars and Stripes but the logo of the allied nations, the third block that formed after the Axis and Sinosoviet block, but before the NNO, the fourth block.
And the italians had it even worse, remember the big white and red stripes on their ships? That was for their airforce to recognise their ships since airfaorce and navy did not really like each other and not much communication went on between both military arms.
It's because he's actually standing, rather than being stuck in an "advance!" pose. I'd say he'd not so big as to be jarring when put next to standard infantry.
No the Panzerprinz is taller because its a different scale than Dust Tactics. Since you guys seem to have missed it, anything labeled Dust 48 or Dust 35 is a different miniature range from those labeled Dust Tactics. Dust 48/Dust 35 are meant for the fine scale modeler community, I.E. people that want to do detailed realistic models, and are in 1/48 scale and 1/35 scale respectively. Dust Tactics is a 30mm scale mini line meant for gamers, and roughly equates to 1/56 scale.
No its not. Dust 1:48 is a different scale entirely, and the models are sold unpainted and unassembled (although they have a limited selection in studio paintscheme). What you're thinking of is the Dust Tactics Premium line, which are the studio painted Dust minis.
No its not. Dust 1:48 is a different scale entirely, and the models are sold unpainted and unassembled (although they have a limited selection in studio paintscheme). What you're thinking of is the Dust Tactics Premium line, which are the studio painted Dust minis.
Nope, do have one walker (Dust-48) here and he and his base have the same size as my normal Dust Tactics minis. Care to explain?
chaos0xomega wrote:Dust 1:48 is a different scale entirely, and the models are sold unpainted and unassembled
Not to derail the thread, but if Dust 1:48 is a different scale, how do they use the same plastic parts for the walkers?
Not sure if thats even possible considering the Dust 48 kits are completely different designs from the Dust Tactics minis.
Duncan_Idaho wrote:
No its not. Dust 1:48 is a different scale entirely, and the models are sold unpainted and unassembled (although they have a limited selection in studio paintscheme). What you're thinking of is the Dust Tactics Premium line, which are the studio painted Dust minis.
Nope, do have one walker (Dust-48) here and he and his base have the same size as my normal Dust Tactics minis. Care to explain?
From what I could find browsing online, the Dust Tactics walkers are 'heroic' 1/48 scale, while the infantry is 28-30mm (1/56). Similar to how vehicles in WH40k are in a different scale from infantry. Thus a Dust Tactics walker will appear to be largely the same scale as a Dust48 mini, although there should be some subtle differences. That doesn't change the fact that Dust 48 infantry minis are in a completely different scale.
There's only one miniature released so far in the Dust 48 line and I have it in front of me along with some Axis trooper from the starter set. While Panzerprintz is taller, it comes down to him standing in a natural pose, whereas all the plastic starter miniatures are in action positions, with legs spread, half crouching or bending forwards. I don't see where' you're getting the "completely different scale" from.
Dust 48 is the same scale as Dust Tactics. The Dust Tactics infantry are not 28-30mm minis but are closer to 34-35mm. 1/48th scale is nominally 36mm (give or take a mm or two depending on manufacturer). I have quite a few of the Dust 48 kits and most are not completely different designs- just the same kits with resin conversion parts. My panzer Prince is only slight taller than most of the other minis because he is standing straight.
Allied soldiers had fallen back from Scapa’s Flow waterfront and established a line of defense along a row of warehouses. Sweat ran down their backs in the chill morning air. From their positions, the men heard the whistle and crack of artillery fire, but though they knew the Axis were coming, they couldn’t see their enemy through the fog. “What is that?” a private asked, pointing and waving toward the docks. Four shapes raced at them through the mist, smaller than walkers, but too large to be human…
The Axis Gorillas and Allied Grim Reapers have arrived! Now on sale at your local retailer and on our webstore, these heavily armored squads represent the newest scientific advances in the world of Dust Tactics.
Blutkreuz Korps experimentation
While experimentating with synthesized drugs on the gorilla, Markus, the Axis Blutkreuz Korps managed to spark his simian intellect, raising his mental capacity to unknown levels. Realizing the combat value of trained “war gorillas,” the Blutkreuz Korps developed more of these unusual soldiers and outfitted them with steel panzer gloves, brutally effective weapons in close combat.
The Axis Gorillas may be limited in number, but their tough natural armor and savage speed allow them to rush into combat. Once they engage their foes, their awesome strength and brutal panzer gloves can devastate infantry and walkers alike!
These gorillas are both intelligent and temperamental. Upset by the poor treatment they receive from the Axis, they will only follow a hero with the Blutkreuz Ape skill.
ASOCOM technology
As the battle of Scapa Flow escalates, ASOCOM unveils its newest technology. The Grim Reapers sport heavily armored battle suits that allow them to Jump over buildings to find ideal positions from which to rain death upon enemy squads with their dual Victory MGs.
Aided by their battle suits, the Grim Reapers race across the battlefield at a movement of two. Not only are they one of the most heavily armored squads available, but they’re one of the most mobile. The Grim Reapers live up to their name in the streets of Scapa Flow as they bound over buildings to hunt down Axis forces and eliminate them.
Turn the tide of battle
As the battle heats up in Scapa Flow, Allied and Axis forces seek every advantage they can find to win the day. Call in the reinforcements with the Axis Gorillas or Allied Grim Reapers!
Find these elite new units for Dust Tactics and Dust Tactics Premium at your local retailer today, or purchase them online on our webstore.
At the current rate I might get my hands on both of these sets around Christmas.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, the premium editions are now up for grabs from the Dust-models site, free shipping until the 5th of August. These are in all likeliness cheaper than the unpainted versions now that I look at their prices.
I was thinking the gorillas were kinda silly at first but the models are really growing on me.
They got a pretty steady stream of new stuff coming out. I'd love to see a list of what else is planned even if it's just a unit name but I guess they wanna copy off GW and keep things secret
Currently we can expect the following Axis and Allied units: New core set, Tank Busters, Red Devils, Zombie Nazis and Heavy Recon Grenadiers. Here's hoping they soon turn the bitch who can control the dead into a regular release as well along with those other "limited release" heroes from those tourney packs.
Yeah I hope they don't keep those characters only in tourney packs.. I could see doing it for a while and then releasing them to everyone a few months later, but it would suck if you could never ever get them if you don't play in tournaments.. which I'm 99.99928437% sure I never will...
Just got the original (?) core set from Amazon, was up for only $60, seems to back to $95 now.
Looking forward to painting the minis and playing once my son leaves for college in eighteen years.
Allied Captain Joseph Brown looked out the window of his building at the devastated streets of Scapa Flow beyond. Smoke and fire issued from the battered husks of buildings. He kept his eyes open for signs of the enemy. Soon enough, a line of fearsome Axis combat walkers thundered with each step as they strode up the alley. Captain Brown loaded a grenade into his launcher and signaled to his troops…
Fantasy Flight Games is excited to announce the upcoming release of Dust Warfare, designed by renowned miniatures guru Andy Chambers! Our intent to launch a Dust tabletop miniatures game was announced even before Dust Tactics was released. Now the success of Dust Tactics has paved the way for us to take the next step. Currently in beta, this tactical tabletop miniatures game of alternate 1940s reality World War II combat will demo throughout Gen Con Indy 2011.
World War II with alien technology
The year is 1947, and World War II still rages, fueled by the discovery of alien technology. The world’s superpowers have developed unprecedented weaponry, including lasers, phaser cannons, and massive combat walkers. These war machines stride across the battlefield, protected by their heavy armor, and devastate enemy troops with their fearsome cannons.
Dust Warfare players assume the roles of generals, each commanding a custom-built army of squads, walkers, and heroes. Draw upon Axis might or Allied versatility as you wage ferocious battles for control of the rare ore, VK, needed to fuel the most powerful of the superpowers’ weapons.
Double the bang for your buck
Dust Warfare players build armies from the exact same set of miniatures as Dust Tactics. This means that if you already own a Dust Tactics army, all you need is the Dust Warfare rulebook. All the stunning Dust Tactics miniatures will be useable for Dust Warfare immediately upon its release, and as both games go forward, they will continue to draw from the same wealth of fantastically detailed miniatures.
Current fans of Dust Tactics will recognize the furious combat, strategic scenarios, and gorgeous miniatures. Players new to the world of Dust are in for a treat.
Dust Tactics introduced rules for fast, intense combats featuring combat walkers, bazookas, flamethrowers, and lasers. Dust Warfare builds upon the board game’s rules and strengths to offer players an exciting new game experience with the tactical and strategic challenges of a tabletop miniatures game.
Fantasy Flight Games has exciting plans for the Dust Tactics and Dust Warfare lines, and players who pick up Dust Tactics miniatures find their new units immediately useable for play in both games!
Command your army from start to finish
Designed by Andy Chambers, the Dust Warfare rulebook introduces unprecedented player engagement. Players first get drawn into the action during the Command Phase, where you have to choose how to spend command points during an escalating battle. You might spend command points early and often to advance and sustain an early lead, or you might save them up for dramatic late-game effects that may decisively turn the tide of battle. The Command Phase presents players with the chance to exert their influence and command style upon the field of battle in an engaging new way.
Players have the chance to activate all their forces during the Unit Phase, and reaction mechanics keep you fully engaged throughout your opponent’s turns. As enemy units close in on yours or begin to open fire, you can choose to spend actions from your next turn to react. Keen commanders will make good use of their reaction options. They will also learn how best to feint and bait their opponents to react, draining them of available actions.
As the battle heats up and casualties mount, you need to keep a sharp eye toward your army’s morale. The constant barrage of enemy fire can suppress your units or even force them to retreat. You may try to lay suppression fire even when you can’t destroy your enemy’s unit. Sometimes, just pinning them down can give you the edge you need.
Join the battle
Dust Warfare takes the rules and miniatures you love from Dust Tactics and expands upon them in exciting new ways to bring gritty, alternate-reality WWII action to your tabletop.
If you’re attending Gen Con Indy 2011, be sure to stop by our Exhibit Hall booth to catch a demo of this fast and furious miniatures game.
The future looks bright for both Dust Tactics and Dust Warfare. Keep scouting this page for advance intelligence on the Dust Warfare rulebook, and offer your analysis of allied and enemy troop movement to other commanders in our community forum.
Dust Warfare is scheduled for release in the fourth quarter of 2011.
Kanluwen wrote:I was about to set that up as its very own thread.
Also: Andy Chambers doing another game system.
*looks at Starship Troopers...sighs*
Well Dust, we've had a good run.
Wait, what? Somehow I doubt that if the rules blow it will be the end of Dust and Dust Tactics.
The point was that a lot of people got drawn in because of his name being associated with it. As the expansions for it released, interest died down because the rules brought forward in the expansion books didn't mesh well with the main book--because Chambers wasn't involved to ensure they did.
Is it a bit doom and gloomy? Sure. But it's hard enough to get people interested in Dust as it is, having his name on the system isn't going to help in my gaming circle.
Well, I was going to sell off my Dust Tactics original box, but I'll probably to keep it to see how Warfare turns out.
I really liked all incarnations of the Starship Troopers rules, including the Battlefield Evolution versions.
What they've hinted at in that press release is a system that sounds like something close to SST, but expanded upon.
I'll be buying Warfare when FFG release it.
I know that others at my game store liked what they saw of the miniatures for Tactics, but were turned off by how simplistic the boardgame rules were (myself included), so this bodes well.
It's also nice to see them finally say something about this, since they talked about these rules even before DT was released, up until now I thought it was just a broken promise.
This is what I have been waiting for. And the fact that it is Andy Chambers is a plus for our group. Mongooses poor decisions ruined SST not his rules...hell we loved SST right up until the end when MG dropped it to screw it up with BF Evo.
I thought it was supposed to be a free PDF, kinda glad they decided to make it a real book you can hold though. But I hope they keep the units the same as Dust Tactics, like how you buy your box of 5 men and that's your whole unit. I don't wanna have WWII40K where I gotta buy 2 or 3 boxes for the unit I want, and then still try and find all the bitz I need to equip them right.
Yes, yes, yes! I cannot wait, this promises to be awesome!
_Tim?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Necros wrote:Now this is what I call a fist full of awesome.
Can't wait for the book.
I thought it was supposed to be a free PDF, kinda glad they decided to make it a real book you can hold though. But I hope they keep the units the same as Dust Tactics, like how you buy your box of 5 men and that's your whole unit. I don't wanna have WWII40K where I gotta buy 2 or 3 boxes for the unit I want, and then still try and find all the bitz I need to equip them right.
Judging from the pictures I have seen so far, squads are exactly what comes in the box! Man, if the rules are good, I am gonna be tempted to drop my Tau army, because I cannot afford that thing!
Also judging from the pictures, I am going to have make myself some terrain like that.
Let`s say the rules combine the best from AT-43, Dust Tactics and SST and add a little bit more.
You will be able to use your DT-units with DW, no need to worry, but you will also be able to scale your game.
Oh, and gettin both Core Sets (First and Revised) is not the worst idea when preparing for Dust Warfare. Thinkin about it... you should prepare to field units in WWII organizational style !
So will it be like a box of recon grenadiers is all you need for the unit, but you can add extra men to it and make it bigger? like units in warmachine?
I am not very interested in those minatures boardgames like dust tactics but the thought of fantasy flight doing a full wargame makes me salivate. I'm already practically a FFG fanboy, so I will certainly check this out.
I'd say stick to the one thread for now as both systems use the same miniatures and, for now, Dust Warfare is just the one book. One thread seems to be working nicely for the 40K roleplaying games, even though they are technically separate systems.
I've not even played a game of Tactics yet and this has made me think about ordering a second copy of the original starter!
I can't stress how relieved I was to hear about this. I kinda made a stupid speculative purchase on the Tactics box. I kinda had to since I told my store to pick it up since I figured someone would buy it if I didn't, no one did.
Unfortunately I bought it and tried it knowing what kind of game it was, but just didn't like it. That's not a knock on the game, but it just wasn't to my taste. So I was left hoping that they would come through on their promise of a tabletop ruleset, then on hoping that the tabletop rules were something I would like.
This announcement basically puts me at a 180 on Dust, since as I already stated I really liked all versions of the SST rules, and now there's a new ruleset from the same guy that sounds like it expands on all those aspects I liked.
The only problem I have with the idea is that everything they describe sounds close to the rules I've been writing for my own miniatures game. Right down to command point system and risking actions. But, I guess that's the challenge of game development.
But without spilling the beans too much I can say this:
At first you will be surprised when you see the rules for the first time, then you will have your first round of games and suddenly it makes click-click-click as you become aware of the mechanics (Oh, this happens because of this and this because of this and that works with thit...) Once you play it it becomes very intuitive cause really can grasp the mechanics. With some other games you accept that there is this rule, but with DW you will realize why it is there as soon as you play the game.
Duncan if you are allowed to answer... or anyone...
Is Warfare going to use the same stat cards as Tactics? or will it be more like 40K where you make an army list?
Are heroes going to be sold separately? Like what if someone just buys the warfare rulebook and not a tactics box set, will they still have to buy the Tactics box sets too if they want a hero to lead their army?
I'm guessing the updated points costs have something to do with Warfare rules.. and it would be cool if I could just order the models from the expansions instead of the whole box set since I'm most likely only gonna be playing Warfare. No one in my club seems interested in a miniatures board game, but I think they'd be more intested in the table top game since we're all so used to 40K and WFB and Warmahordes.
But it's hard enough to get people interested in Dust as it is, having his [Andy Chambers] name on the system isn't going to help in my gaming circle.
His name just got my attenton and I don't even play Dust. I like the minis and the concept, but the trouble I've found recently is there are simply too many games catching my attention at the moment - the wargame industry is like Wonker's Chocolate Factory for me right now. It's a nice problem to have
The older set looked like it would be more of a "Guard" styled force for each side, while the new one looks like it'd be more "Power Armor Heavy Hitters".
Yep, get the old one while it's still around. It's a great deal for the amt of miniatures in there. 2 walkers, 3 units of 5 men and 1 hero for each army. The new starter I think will be 1 walker & 2 units & a hero for each.
I have the old starter set, I'll be getting the new one when it's released plus probably a command squad for each army and then I think I'll be pretty set with a good sized force for both axis and allies
The new starter has three infantry squads along with a hero and robot:
Allies: Reinforcements have appeared, their speedy arrival financed from the deep pockets of the secret Allied organization ASOCOM. The Allies are ready to say a deadly “hello” to their Axis foes with their new forces: the Blackhawk, Death Dealers, Hell Boys, Hammers, and a new hero named Rhino. The high-tech Blackhawk can send a deluge of firepower against any infantry unit or tank. Use the walker’s speed to reach the enemy then turn Blackhawk’s cannons red hot when you increase its rate of fire. The aptly named Hammers are ready to smash through Axis lines with their turbo-charged fists. These mighty forces are brutally fast and effective. While the Death Dealers have no special ability, they still deal out savage attacks with their full arsenal of weaponry. The Allied Hell Boys will certainly turn up the heat on the battlefield with their attacks. Get them close to any Axis walker then give them hell. Sergeant Major William Springfield, aka Rhino, can become quite feverish in his devoted fight against enemy troops. Uncontrollable in his rage, Rhino will vigorously attack his foes, resulting in catastrophic Axis losses.
Ze Germans: The Blutkreuz Korps refuse to be bested on any field of battle. When their spies heard about new Allied troops they found troops to counter the new arrival. The Axis high command is pleased to introduce the Heavy Flak Grenadiers, Sturmpionieren, Heavy Laser Grenadiers, the new walker, Hans, and fellow hero, Lara. The Axis’ Hans should always be deployed to have it scout ahead and devastate any Allied walkers it finds. One hit is deadly to most tanks. Both the Heavy Flak Grenadiers and the Heavy Laser Grenadiers are welcome additions to an Axis army. The Heavy Flak Grenadiers have an incredible rate of fire to attack against any sluggish target. The Heavy Laser Grenadiers are equally powerful. Pit them against Allied tanks; for every hit they deal incredible damage. Sturmpionieren possess terrifying weapons to be used in the course of battle, and are fast on their feet. Leading these new troops into the fray is Lara Walter, a fearless queen of war. Shots from both of her MG 44 Zwei’s will annihilate infantry. Lara shares her fiery attitude with any squad she joins, spurring them to an effective advance.
Mr Chambers has added a few comments to the DT Facebook group. I'll paste here for your ease
Andy Chambers wrote:
The Dust Warfare rules have been developed directly from Dust Tactics so if you're familiar with the mechanics for the board game the transition to tabletop will be very straightforward. The addition of reactions and an all new turn sequence are the biggest differences between the two. As a side note I'm also a big Squad Leader fan from back in the day and I've tried to re-capture some of that feel for Dust Warfare (thought not the mechanics!).
Andy Chambers wrote: I should also add that I think the benefits of IGO UGO outweigh its detriments when balanced off by a reaction system. Have no fear, you won't be sitting on your hands during your opponent's turn.
Someone asked if the reactions were like AROs in Infinity. This is his response
Andy Chambers wrote:sort of, but not really. Units which opt to react pays one of their future actions to do so, so there's an opportunity cost to make a reaction (usually worth it, but there is a cost). Suppression also plays a role. Unless I'm reading Infinity wrong (which I may be) AROs are something you always do?
It looks like FFG have also released a new FAQ. There's also a post detailing Dust Tactics so far as well as hints that next week at Gencon they will unveil some new walkers. There's also talk of new campaigns, new settings and new tiles to be released over the coming months too. The future is bright... the future is... dusty?
Two divisions of Hell Boys hustled down the plank off their landing craft. Deployed to the east side of the docks, they were to sweep behind the Axis walkers and launch a surgical strike on Axis command. However, Lara Walter and her Heavy Flak Grenadiers had surprises of their own in store for any Allies who sought to engage them…
Know the field of battle. Know your enemy’s limitations. The wise general prepares for battle by gaining as much intelligence as possible. Now you can learn the Dust Tactics rules of engagement from a single compiled and clarified document. The Dust Tactics: Revised Core Set rules are now available for download online (pdf, 13.7 MB) on the support page.
Full mission briefing
Experienced Dust Tactics players will find that none of the core rules have changed. The new document simply compiles and clarifies the rules from the Dust Tactics base game, Operation “Cyclone,” and Operation “SeeLöwe.” New players will find the Revised Core Set rulebook an excellent way to learn the most recent rules in one clean, concise document.
Prepare for battle with the Dust Tactics: Revised Core Set rulebook (pdf, 13.7 MB). The Revised Core Set turns the tide of battle soon, third quarter 2011.
I only bought the original box set, after seeing these new rules, I think they shot themselves in the foot by not including all this stuff in the original game.
For example, it was pretty odd to me that the only terrain in the original set was large tiles that took up an entire square, on maps that had precious few squares. The new structure rules, apparently introduced in the latest expansion, would have made the game way more interesting, for almost no additional rules complexity.
The whole reaction fire thing is a much needed addition as well, but very risky to use. You really only want to use it if you know a squad will be wiped out before it can activate.
Ah excellent. That was good timing as I was about to start trying to teach some friends how to play over the next few weeks. We can just start with this instead
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