scipio.au wrote: Are we using hand waving only for the technology of giant walking tank-robots and reanimated corpses but holding the plane models to the actual reliability and accuracy of the technology of the day?
It's not the tech, it's the proportions. The walkers have "realistic" proportions. The fliers all have these kind of stubby Fisher Price proportions.
Our brains can handwave legs instead of wheels. They can't handwave too fat to fly.
There are all sorts of fat planes that can actually fly. Take a look at the Airbus A300-600ST (Super Transporter) Beluga. Historically there were fat planes as well such as the Gee Bee racer. See no hand waiving needed.
The Worldwide Siege of Zverograd Campaign has started.
Any games of Dust Tactics and Dust Warfare that you report will count towards taking control of the city of Zverograd.
In October, we announced that the Axis would be bringing some powerful aerial units to the battlefield of Dust Tactics. Now, the Axis is getting close to fielding its new Horten HO-347 jets over the skies of Zverograd, and guest writer Jeremiah Terry has taken the time to explore the potential of these speedy new aircraft.
Speed is Victory…
When the Horten HO-347 was conceived, one premise was held above all others: Speed is victory. The HO-347 is the fastest unit ever to appear on the battlefields of Dust Tactics. With its movement value of three and the ability to fly over any type of terrain, the ‘347 can cover the width of the average Dust Tactics board (twelve squares) in only two turns. However, this huge speed advantage does not come without its drawbacks, and the HO-347 may not be what some expect.
The Fledermaus III and IV are fantastic close air-support aircraft, packing as much punch as some tanks. With their massive speed advantage these planes are able to sweep across the battlefield and take out ground forces with ease. However, despite each having the “Air Superiority” skill, they are not a superior force in a dogfight. In air to air combat, either of the Fledermaus variants have only as much firepower as the SSU’s lowly Mil MI-45 Transport Helicopter. This means that while a Fledermaus can threaten ground forces and provide some anti-air support, it should avoid going nose to nose with the SSU’s most powerful anti-air gunship, the Striker. The Striker can easily take out a '347 in a single Sustained Attack, while the '347 will only ever be able to severely damage one of the SSU’s choppers in one round of fire.
This singular limitation of the HO-347s makes the task of planning a force around them a somewhat difficult job, especially when facing enemy air power. It pays to think hard about air combat before settling on a force. While the Fledermaus III and IV may need some extra anti-air support, using ground-based vehicles such as Heinrich or the massive Strumkonig could be an ineffective strategy. These vehicles will certainly get the job done in terms of firepower when combined with the HO-347, but they are far too slow to keep up with the lightning fast ‘347. Without having a comparable move value, these walkers will simply hold the ‘347 back, and the Fledermaus will lose its primary advantage: speed.
One option is to use the Axis’ fantastic class three armor infantry. These smaller units can move into spaces where larger vehicles cannot. When paired with Lara, they gain the “Assault” ability, allowing them to catch up with the speedy Fledermäusen. There are a few Axis class three armor squads that could provide the necessary anti-air support, but your best choice will likely be the Heavy Flak Grenadiers. While the Grenadiers’ weapons will need to be reloaded every so often, their burst fire can take down a helicopter with ease.
Axis Armored Infantry Company with Light Air Support Unit + Point Cost
Fledermaus IV 48
Lara + Heavy Flak Grenadiers 21 + 25
Heavy Laser Grenadiers 30
Laser Jagdgrenadiere 28
Jagdgrenadiere 25
Heinrich 26
Ludwig 40
Lothar 36
Beobachter + Manfred 5 + 16
Total 300
In the force listed above you’ll have a lot of anti-armor, and anti-air, firepower. This army build should allow you to deal with all but the most entrenched infantry forces. Lara, the Flak Grenadiers, and Heinrich will all provide some anti-air cover for not only the Fledermaus IV but also for any other infantry and armored vehicles not outfitted for such a role. If this force is properly positioned, most enemy aircraft should find it hard to intercept your Fledermaus when faced with so much anti-air artillery. Additionally, the Fledermaus IV’s 150 Kg bombs can tear through infantry and armor alike, easily cutting a swath of destruction through the enemy’s lines.
And Victory is Life
Another option is to pair up two HO-347s, allowing them to provide their own covering fire. This is also a very tempting idea because of the HO-347’s low point cost of forty-five to forty-eight points when compared to the sixty-two to sixty-nine points that it costs to field the SSU’s Ground Attack Helicopters.
Axis Blitzkrieg Force with Air Support Unit + Point Cost
Fledermaus IV 48
Fledermaus III 43
Lara + Heavy Flak Grenadiers 21 + 25
Heavy Laser Grenadiers 30
Laser Jagdgrenadiere 28
Ludwig 40
Lothar 36
Beobachter + Manfred 5 + 16
Total 292
Here’s a force that has a lot of tactical options. The speed and “Advanced Deployment” capabilities of the powerful Fledermaus III and IV allow them to strike deep into enemy lines, and the mass of heavy infantry can take out enemy walkers and tanks. Additionally, these ground units will provide the Fledermäusen with some added protection from enemy aircraft. True heavy support is provided by a Ludwig, a walker which no Axis commander should ever be without, and a Lothar. The Lothar combined with the Beobachter will be able to strike enemies virtually anywhere on the board, and Manfred provides the Beobachter team with some much needed protection.
This army also features the added firepower of the Fledermaus III’s 75mm heavy anti-tank gun. While this gun isn’t terribly effective against infantry, and is useless against enemy aircraft, it can tear a tank apart. The 75mm allows a player to roll nearly as many dice against all armor classes as Ludwig’s 88cm does. The Fledermaus III can do even more damage against light and medium armor when it combines its 75mm gun with its Vier 20mm cannons. This allows the Fledermaus III to roll two more dice then a Ludwig against armor class three and four ground vehicles. With the HO-347’s speed and the innate benefits of being an aircraft, the three extra points you’ll pay for a Fledermaus when compared to a Ludwig make it seem quite the bargain. Just remember that if you’re facing down super heavy enemy armor, the Ludwig will still be the better option for the point cost.
As you can see, the new Axis Horten HO-347 is quite versatile, and it can easily break an unprepared enemy. With all the factions soon to be fighting over the skies of Zverograd, no commander should be enter the battlefield without some form of anti-air artillery, or air support.
Take the Skies for the Axis
Special thanks to Jeremiah Terry for his intriguing insights into creative ways to make the most of these new Axis jets. The HO-347 will be available next week, so make sure to visit your local retailer and add these troops to the skies above Zverograd in Dust Tactics!
The Siege of Zverograd Worldwide Campaign is well underway now and a number of locations in the city have already changed hands.
The city map at http://www.zverograd.com now shows what bloc (Allies, Axis, SSU) is in control of what location.
To take part all you need to do is play either Dust Tactics or Dust Warfare and report the result by filling in the form that can be found on the website.
Any way of adding in some 1/48 scale meshershmitts in there? Second the Fisher Price opinion.
The flyers just don't seem to fit the rest of the lines of the figures. One- The russian choppers? they look like a hot mess. The other- The planes don't even seem viable, I'd be dumping AA all over those without even a second thought from the mechs.
In case anyone is interested, Miniature Markets deal of the day is the revised Core Set for $40. Debating whether to get another for painting and modding practice.
Battle for the Airfield of Zverograd Operation Icarus, a Dust Tactics Expansion, Is Now Available
Operation “Icarus,” an expansion for Dust Tactics, is now available at your local retailer and on our webstore! Beneath the city of Zverograd lay ruins filled with the promise of alien technology and VK energy, and the Allies, Axis, and SSU will stop at nothing to secure the city once and for all. The Axis has a firm grip on the airfield just outside of this Soviet city. Meanwhile, Axis troops are taking cover in quonset huts and leveraging their new Horten HO-347s to defend the skies.
If the Allies have any hope of taking the city, then they must secure the airfield to utilize their massive air fleet. Operation “Icarus” brings the Allied assault to life as the airfield becomes the centerpiece of the contest for Zverograd. The Allied approach will not be easy with a distinct lack of cover on the airfield, the entrenched Axis forces, and the SSU still trying to hold the city itself.
Zverograd Beckons
Operation “Icarus” introduces new rules for minefields, the limited cover provided by the trees that line the airfield’s landing strips, and the quonset huts in which the Axis forces await the Allied assault. All these elements come together to create the dangerous new battleground that comes sharply into focus with the seven tense and ferocious scenarios of the Operation “Icarus” campaign.
Operation “Icarus” ffers a large dossier of information on the city of Zverograd, featuring an expanded look at the ravaged city that began to be revealed in Operation “Hades.” Zverograd has a number of key tactical locations, and many are connected by the very underground tunnels and metro lines that housed the claustrophobic Rattenkrieg. Operation “Icarus” brings a wealth of information to players about these various strategic locales, allowing you to build your own scenario objectives.
New Heroes Take the Field
The Axis has brought their best and brightest to bear in this struggle to hold the airfield from the Allies and the SSU. Colonel Prince von Furstenwerth, known as the “Panzerprinz,” is one of the most famous armor commanders in the Axis army. His innovative walker tactics have become the stuff of legend, earning him the Knight’s Cross of the Iron Cross with Oak Leaves and Swords. This soldier’s tactical genius will be one of the greatest threats to the Allies’ Operation “Icarus.” The Axis soldiers will rally around their Ace Pilot and provide a wall of opposition with walkers performing at peak efficiency.
In turn, the Allies will hope the stories surrounding their superhuman hero are true. They say that Sergeant Percy Washington can run faster than a horse, tear apart a Luther with his bare hands, and survive direct hits from enemy bullets. With his telekinetic strength, remarkable speed, and uncanny resistance to kinetic weapons, “Sgt. Victory” may provide the Allies just the edge they need to turn the tide of their battle for Zverograd.
Dust Tactics Premium Edition
Operation “Icarus” is also available from FFG’s Dust Tactics Premium Edition line. The Premium Edition of Operation “Icarus” features detailed and professionally painted versions of Sgt. Victory and the Panzerprinz. Each one is painted according to the art direction of Vincent Fontaine from Dust Studio. From the highlights that call out the expressions on their faces to the polish of their boots, each of these Premium heroes is a stunning and stylish addition to any army.
The SSU and Axis forces have closed off the other points of entry to Zverograd. Now, as the world’s greatest militaries battle for control of the crumbling city and the skies above it, the Allies risk everything to establish a greater foothold and a base of operations for their future air strikes.
It’s an all-out offensive fought in the open, and there’s no time to spare. Get ready for fast and furious combats as the Allies seek to seize Zverograd’s airfield in Operation “Icarus”!
No idea though what's in that box beside the book and the two heroes. I guess, it's not the barracks that look quite cool.
Very nice Puma conversion. Although you can buy the Italeri kit for around $30 shipped and a dust walker (for the turret and the walker) for about $25 if you want your own paint scheme.
Yea, $80 is just too expensive for a collector's item, in my book. Since it won't be playable for Dust Warfare (in tournaments), I will be passing on this one.
em_en_oh_pee wrote: Yea, $80 is just too expensive for a collector's item, in my book. Since it won't be playable for Dust Warfare (in tournaments), I will be passing on this one.
You can build one for about $50-$60. It looks pretty nice, but I do agree on the $80 price tag. I currently have 3 different armoured cars I am converting for dust, including the puma, a half track and the SDKFZ22 (Whose turret seems to match the Axis Transport/Nordwind turret as well, wondering if they are the same. I will know when I get my kit)
On a related point: That's about $20 for building and painting it. Very good deal on the work they are doing.
We unlocked the cross-over Adventure supplement with Paole Parente's DUST universe, another awesome 128 page book including missions for DUST Tactics and stats for Call of Cthulhu and Savage Worlds.
Campaign Book: Icarus was announced as officially released and has started shipping out. The article has a few tidbits. It is a great expansion, I think!
em_en_oh_pee wrote: Campaign Book: Icarus was announced as officially released and has started shipping out. The article has a few tidbits. It is a great expansion, I think!
Does anyone have a list of the units covered? These trickle expansions are getting to be a pain.
Wow the allies plane. Was looking forward to it but after seeing it I think I'll be getting a regular p-38 model kit instead.
The hortons pretty badass though.
I'm gonna hafta get the long Tom II as well I think. Let the axis hide in their bunkers as my heavy howitzer crawls up to the front door!!! Hope it can destroy fortifications or something cool like that.
I wonder if the SSU are going to be the only faction to get tracked vehicles?
Would love a halftrack, allied or axis. A little Bren gun carrier for the allies would be good too
The Allies have been hard at work developing a means to meet the threat of Axis jets, and they've found their answer: the P-48. The P-48 Pelican is capable of taking off with a very short runway, making this light and versatile fighter very easy to deploy in any combat conditions. Triple Dual .50 cal machine guns give the Pelican a serious edge against enemies in the air and quickly eats through infantry. Fire rockets from afar with the Bellowing Bertie configuration, or bomb your enemies into oblivion with Diving Dotty. Both configurations offer effective damage against all enemy units but the heaviest of tanks.
I really wish they hadn't decided that all the aircraft needed to be Chibi style. The light and medium walkers are great, the buildings are great, the power armor is great. The Chibi aircraft are silly.
Justyn wrote: I really wish they hadn't decided that all the aircraft needed to be Chibi style. The light and medium walkers are great, the buildings are great, the power armor is great. The Chibi aircraft are silly.
Justyn wrote: I really wish they hadn't decided that all the aircraft needed to be Chibi style. The light and medium walkers are great, the buildings are great, the power armor is great. The Chibi aircraft are silly.
The axis aircraft is not chibi style.
Yea, only the Helos really are. The Pelican just has fat engines to handle its VSTOL thrusters on the underside. Otherwise, its looks like a P-38.
The Horten is essentially a Ma.K. Fledermaus, but not...
em_en_oh_pee wrote: Campaign Book: Icarus was announced as officially released and has started shipping out. The article has a few tidbits. It is a great expansion, I think!
Does anyone have a list of the units covered? These trickle expansions are getting to be a pain.
Well I kinda understand why they went a little chibi with the planes. I was at the hobby store today and a1:48 model of a p-38 is freaking huge to my eyes. Maybe I'm just not used to bring close to aircraft but it will dwarf a medium walker.Just seems like it will hog too much board.
I might actually get some 1:72 p-47's or typhoons. They come prepainted, very well done too. The scale difference would normally really bother me but in this case not. It's always hard to tell exactly how far away a plane is in the air right?
The only problem I see really is if it will look funny next the Horton, which I do want. And what to use for a flight stand too.
jedi76 wrote: Well I kinda understand why they went a little chibi with the planes. I was at the hobby store today and a1:48 model of a p-38 is freaking huge to my eyes. Maybe I'm just not used to bring close to aircraft but it will dwarf a medium walker.Just seems like it will hog too much board.
Quite true, aircraft are quite large in life
Honestly I think its the scale issue. A Chopper to scale would probably require a box at least 30-50% larger. I'd imagine the dust people rather have a consistent box size for these items at the cost of more realistic proportions
BATTLEFRONT MINIATURES TO TAKE OVER DISTRIBUTION OF DUST TACTICS
Posted in May 2nd, 2013
May 2nd, 2013
Dust Studio today announced that Battlefront Miniatures will become its publishing and distribution partner for the Dust Tactics and Dust Warfare miniatures game lines. Fantasy Flight Games, Dust Studio’s current publishing partner for those games, will transition sales and marketing activity to Battlefront Miniatures on June 1st, 2013.
“Dust has had a wonderful few years, during which we have seen the game’s community grow exponentially,” said Dust creator Paolo Parente. “Both Dust Studio and Fantasy Flight Games have evolved
significantly during our relationship, and we now mutually feel that we are both better served by moving in new directions. Christian (CEO of Fantasy Flight Games) and I have known each other for many years, and I can say that this decision is a truly amicable one.”
Added John-Paul Brisigotti, CEO of Battlefront Group, “we are very excited by the Dust universe, and although it is a first for us to be distributing a product other than our own, the fit with our business model made this partnership something we could not resist. During the last few years, we have been moving into new avenues to expand the breadth of products the group offers, and we see DUST as another one of these ranges.”
“We’ve been fortunate to distribute Dust Tactics since its debut at GEN CON 2010, and we’re very proud of our development work on Dust Warfare,” said Christian T. Petersen, CEO of Fantasy Flight Games (FFG). “The last year, however, as FFG experienced phenomenal growth across many of our publishing categories, it became clear that Paolo and the Dust games would be better served by a partner who specializes in the unique business of miniature games. We’re confident that Paolo’s partner choice in Battlefront Miniatures is a
strong one, and we wish nothing but the best to them, to Paolo, and to the fantastic Dust fan community.”
Starting June 1st, Battlefront Miniatures will begin soliciting and distributing all new products for Dust Tactics and Dust Warfare. FFG will ship all of its previously solicited new products prior to that date, and FFG will continue to exclusively sell all current Dust Tactics and Dust Warfare items while its inventories last. While FFG will support the Dust Tactics and Dust Warfare regionals events in May and June 2013, all future marketing and organized play for the games will be handled by Battlefront Miniatures, including the scheduled GEN CON 2013 tournaments.
About Dust Studio:
Dust Studio Limited is a Hong Kong–based company that creates and manufactures the Dust Tactics miniatures line, as well as model kits and scenery together with various books and comic books about the Dust universe. For more information, visit www.dust-models.com
About Battlefront Miniatures:
Battlefront Miniatures Limited is a New Zealand–based company that created Flames of War, the WWII miniature game. Battlefront publishes the world’s premier tabletop gaming magazine Wargames Illustrated, and owns Gale Force Nine, the leading manufacturer of game accessories. For more information, visit Battlefront’s website at www.flamesofwar.com.
About Fantasy Flight Games:
Roseville, Minnesota’s Fantasy Flight Games is a publisher of board, card, miniatures, and roleplaying games. Founded in 1995 by Christian T. Petersen, Fantasy Flight Games has published hundreds of successful titles, including licensed products based on A Game of Thrones, The Lord of the Rings, and Star Wars, as well as many original board games such as Twilight Imperium, Arkham Horror, and Descent: Journeys in the Dark. For more information, contact FFG’s Anton Torres at atorres@fantasyflightgames.com.
Interesting. Glad dust has a good home. But of course my fear is a battlefront price hike Maybe now they will be able to sync up dust tactics and warfare campaign releases. I hate waiting for the tabletop rules.
Don´t worry. There will be a modest price rise, but that was already in the planning way before this. Manufacturing reality has to be accepted and price rises are a fact of it these days.
Duncan_Idaho wrote: Don´t worry. There will be a modest price rise, but that was already in the planning way before this. Manufacturing reality has to be accepted and price rises are a fact of it these days.
I think the difference being that FFG can work in bulk-plastics at the factory level, which kept Dust Tactics/Warfare as one of the cheapest "big army" games to build/play.
Battlefront... well... on the plus side, I expect things like units shipping with DT/DW rules, and not just half of their rules on card. On the other hand, I fully expect a much higher MSRP, and much lower online discounts.
Duncan_Idaho wrote: Don´t worry. There will be a modest price rise, but that was already in the planning way before this. Manufacturing reality has to be accepted and price rises are a fact of it these days.
I think the difference being that FFG can work in bulk-plastics at the factory level, which kept Dust Tactics/Warfare as one of the cheapest "big army" games to build/play.
Battlefront... well... on the plus side, I expect things like units shipping with DT/DW rules, and not just half of their rules on card. On the other hand, I fully expect a much higher MSRP, and much lower online discounts.
FFG didn't manufacture the models. That was Dust Models - FFG just distributed them. So, the cost increase is on the Dust Models end of things. If you have seen the latest releases though, you can see why. They are using a much better plastic now with greater detail. I am all for a small increase for that, versus GW's money grabs, for instance.
Also, Battlefront will not be packaging or making the models either. That is Dust Models. So hoping for DT/DW rules in one box or anything is unlikely, unless Dust Models wants to do it.
On a last note, with GF9 involved, maybe we will see token sets, cards, and dice, etc. Eventually, too, maybe a 15mm FoW-compatible Dust expansion.
"PHOENIX, AZ (May 6, 2013) — Dust Devils International (DDI) named managing body of the Dust World Coalition (DWC), the next generation play association for Dust Tactics and Dust Warfare. This announcement follows the truly epic news of Dust Studio joining forces with Battlefront, a partnership that brings together the best in DieselPunk WWII and Historical WWII miniatures gaming. Groundbreaking in its “grass roots” fan-organized structure, DDI brings a variety of innovative new elements to the DWC, significantly enhancing what has traditionally been referred to as “Organized Play”. ”I’m very proud that Dust has such a passionate fan base,” shares Paolo Parente the creator of Dust, “This is why it is very important to all of us at Dust Studio and to me personally that the Dust World Coalition is managed by the fans.”
Many of these fans are in fact Semi-Pros, having run large-scale events, tournaments, clubs, fan magazines, forums, and more. “We’re excited to bring together an International team that combines a passion for the world of Dust with a broad range of skill sets to create a very successful play organization with a very different approach,” says Rick Ivansek, Co-Founder of the Dust Devils International (DDI).
Floris Hussarts, DDI Front Leader for the UK, elaborates further, “Over the last few years there have been many events and tournaments for Dust Tactics and Dust Warfare, ranging from small groups of players meeting for a game of Dust at a friend’s house to multi-day tournaments with special guests and Dust previews. The leadership and members of Dust Devils International, have enjoyed each and every one of these events, and going forward we want to see more of them. The Dust Devils will be taking on Organised Play for both Dust Tactics and Dust Warfare and we will be supporting the Dust Community in a variety of ways.”
Organizational structure will be based on clubs, called Posts, which will be organized into regions, called Fronts. Retailers will have the option of becoming a PX. For a small membership fee, recruits will receive a rank in the organization, exclusive swag, and the ability to participate in Official Actions. Official Actions include Recruitment (Demos and Member Drives), Campaigns (League Play), and Offensives (Tournaments at the Post, Front, and World level). DDI will also host Dust World Expo, the annual International celebration of all things Dust.
All activities officially begin on July 1st, 2013, but watch the official Web site at http://www.Dust-Devils.com for more information as it becomes available. If you are a fan of Paolo Parente’s Dust, you’ll want to be part of the Dust World Coalition. Dust Devils – Form Up!"
Justyn wrote: I really wish they hadn't decided that all the aircraft needed to be Chibi style. The light and medium walkers are great, the buildings are great, the power armor is great. The Chibi aircraft are silly.
Maybe they are smaller to simulate the size they would appear from the perspective of the ground forces?
Duncan_Idaho wrote: Don´t worry. There will be a modest price rise, but that was already in the planning way before this. Manufacturing reality has to be accepted and price rises are a fact of it these days.
I think the difference being that FFG can work in bulk-plastics at the factory level, which kept Dust Tactics/Warfare as one of the cheapest "big army" games to build/play.
Battlefront... well... on the plus side, I expect things like units shipping with DT/DW rules, and not just half of their rules on card. On the other hand, I fully expect a much higher MSRP, and much lower online discounts.
Ah crap. Looks like I need to buy up some Dust stuff before Battlefront get their hooks fully into it and the local price jumps disproportionately and the discounts disappear. BF aren't nearly as bad as GW, but they're a solid second on price gouging the Aussie market.
From what I hear, no one is raising prices. There may be a discount cap, but that I don't know about yet. At the least, it encourages folks to buy locally at LGS, which keeps out brick & mortar folks going, so I am for it.
I reckon I'll go with what Duncan has said about a price rise. I may often disagree with his opinion, but he's usually good on things like this. My local store doesn't stock Dust, and the other semi-local places both do net.sales with 20% off, so I buy from them.
FoW might be a little bit expensive, but you get tons of free stuff over their website and you get alle the stuff from one source. Qualitywise they are better than most of their competitors....
It's the regional price gouging that I dislike, Duncan. It's not as bad as GW, but it's worse than any other manufacturer/producer.
I'd also suggest that PSC vehicles are pretty much better than BF resin, even without the large price discrepancy.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
em_en_oh_pee wrote: From what I hear, no one is raising prices. There may be a discount cap, but that I don't know about yet. At the least, it encourages folks to buy locally at LGS, which keeps out brick & mortar folks going, so I am for it.
Here's the rub. With the 10% discount cap in place everywhere but the 20% pricing disparity between AU and UK prices, it's cheaper for me to buy BF/FoW product from the UK than from the shop down the road or a local mail order place. At the moment, I buy my Dust stuff from a local mail order place since it's almost the same as buying from the UK.
As a fellow Australian... the price hikes on Dust stuff here is just as bad as GW:
SSU Commissar squad = $32 retail in Aus.
But looking overseas 15 GBP ($22 Aus) or $20 USD... even better with discounts.
I'm tentatively looking forward to this ... perhaps it can breathe some life into Dust in my area as it never took off.
It's the regional price gouging that I dislike, Duncan. It's not as bad as GW, but it's worse than any other manufacturer/producer.
I prefer it, this way it was interesting for German retailers to again have BF on their shelves. Before the price leveling the did not have a chance competing with UK shops. AUS is the usual exception from the rule. AUS for some reason seems to get higher prices from nearly every company. Could it be possible that some AUs laws make it harder for companies getting stuff to AUS? If it was just 2-3 companies I would not wonder, but it seems nearly veryone does it.
I'd also suggest that PSC vehicles are pretty much better than BF resin, even without the large price discrepancy.
finer detail, but way more difficult to handle for fear of breaking them. BF are quite sturdier.
Well, I can't speak for international stuff and while I enjoy buying stuff cheap from online retailers, I like my LGS to keep its doors open, so I will be buying from them and most likely be getting a 10-20% discount anyhow, given how they do sales and stuff.
As cheap as it already is, a price hike won't faze me too much. Especially since I own pretty much everything Allies can run anyhow.
It's the regional price gouging that I dislike, Duncan. It's not as bad as GW, but it's worse than any other manufacturer/producer.
I prefer it, this way it was interesting for German retailers to again have BF on their shelves. Before the price leveling the did not have a chance competing with UK shops. AUS is the usual exception from the rule. AUS for some reason seems to get higher prices from nearly every company. Could it be possible that some AUs laws make it harder for companies getting stuff to AUS? If it was just 2-3 companies I would not wonder, but it seems nearly veryone does it.
I'd also suggest that PSC vehicles are pretty much better than BF resin, even without the large price discrepancy.
finer detail, but way more difficult to handle for fear of breaking them. BF are quite sturdier.
As I recall, there was a special panel formed by the Australian government to investigate the price gouging and they found the companies were doing it "just because". The prices were set when the AUD was half that of the USD, and the companies refused to lower prices to match exchange rates and lowered shipping.
Probably the most egregious example was Adobe. It's cheaper for Australians to buy a plane ticket to Los Angeles, buy Photoshop there, and fly home than it is to buy a digital copy in Australia.
But I also remember the AUS gov to wonder why Hasbro/Nerf did not bring Nerf-guns to AUS until the gov realized that their own stupid laws prevented them from doing it. Realizing it they did nothing but expected Hasbro to change their products. Problem was that no other nation had problems with the product, not even Germany and our toy laws are very strict.
Such stunts being pulled on a regular basis I can imagine that quite some companies want to make sure they have some extra funds for the next time the AUS gov pulls such a stunt and they have to invest again extra money. Just have a look which computer games are banned in AUS but not the rest of the world....
It's the regional price gouging that I dislike, Duncan. It's not as bad as GW, but it's worse than any other manufacturer/producer.
I prefer it, this way it was interesting for German retailers to again have BF on their shelves. Before the price leveling the did not have a chance competing with UK shops. AUS is the usual exception from the rule. AUS for some reason seems to get higher prices from nearly every company. Could it be possible that some AUs laws make it harder for companies getting stuff to AUS? If it was just 2-3 companies I would not wonder, but it seems nearly veryone does it.
There really isn't. We're simply a market that has historically been isolated. We're on a big fething island in the middle of nowhere and isolated by a great deal of distance from our closest cultural neighbours, aside from NZ who are in the same boat as us.
We used to have an exchange rate that was at about AU$0.65 = US$1 for a period around 18 years ago. Everyone at that stage jacked up their prices to match the new poorer exchange rate, and when the dollar corrected to being worth more than the greenback, importers found that they were making more profit than ever, so why lower prices? The current argument from people like local retailers/distributors to maintain such high prices is that "the dollar will drop again someday, and if it happens suddenly, we'll lose money!"
Now that the internet is here, savvy consumers have decided that they no longer want to be gouged by middlemen, and suddenly the sky is falling. (for retailers)
Oh, and you PREFER regional price gouging?
Duncan_Idaho wrote: But I also remember the AUS gov to wonder why Hasbro/Nerf did not bring Nerf-guns to AUS until the gov realized that their own stupid laws prevented them from doing it. Realizing it they did nothing but expected Hasbro to change their products. Problem was that no other nation had problems with the product, not even Germany and our toy laws are very strict.
Such stunts being pulled on a regular basis I can imagine that quite some companies want to make sure they have some extra funds for the next time the AUS gov pulls such a stunt and they have to invest again extra money. Just have a look which computer games are banned in AUS but not the rest of the world....
Straw man there Duncan, and clearly you have no idea of what you're talking about in any detail. I'm not even going to bother to rebut you on that one in any detail. I'll point you to the introduction section of this article, and add that Michael Atkinson, the then-governor of South Australia used his veto powers to block R18+ legislation for the entire country for a significant number of years, as all Australian States had to be in agreement for a change to the classification system.
I've never heard of Nerf guns being banned in Australia, and remember them being sold as far back as when I was a child, which was quite a long time ago now - so unless you can point me to something specific (and article rather than internet hearsay), I'm going to call shenanigans on that one as well.
@Nerf
Just have a look at the maximum distances printed on the boxes going to Australia and some neighbouring states and the rest of the world. NERF was forced to change the springs and air-pressure tubes to be able to sell their stuff in AUS. There are even some AUS Nerf-blogs that discussed this problem.
And the last time I talked to a friend of mine in AUS he was e.g. not able to get a game through the regular channels in AUS every 12 year old can get in my country.
Also some colleagues had problem getting stuff imported in Australia cause they were considered dangerous substances. The funny side being that even the US had no problem with this stuff being imported and they are normally very anal about such stuff.
@price gouging
I prefer prices that are the same in all countries or at least the majority of countries if possible.
I've already explained the game issue. Which game was it, out of interest?
Better mark the date - We're in agreement on something! I also prefer all prices to be the same in all regions. That actually makes it easy for me to decide to buy locally.
For anyone interested, I posted some unboxing vids on Dust-War.com's new YouTube channel. Take a look and let me know what you think, what should be improved, and what you want to see unboxed. Battle Reports and other stuff will be down the road for us, too.
Battlefront was supposed to take over marketing and sales of Dust on June 1. It is June 9th and I have not heard much from them. The game could use some press or support.
With proper marketing and support this game could be very successful. The figures are pre assembled and primed, so could potentially be sold to a broader audience than most TTWG. Dust works well in FLGSs, as a customer can buy a box and put a unit on the table.
FFG will continue to sell the current range until stocks are delpleted, probably towards the end of this year.
BF will sell the core game and new waves starting to ship in July and add to the range as FFG stock runs out.
BF will take over the website in June so expect to see some new things there.
FFG has events planned in the US over the summer that will continue and we will then take them over from Gencon.
Basically we are working closely with Paolo and FFG so that this transition works on every level as we both want DUST to continue to flourish.
Nothing being made by BF is impacted by this deal as the manufacturing of the range is being handled by Paolo's factory exactly as it has been from the start so the DUST range does not stop us making any tanks or terrain for FOW or any other brand we have.
More information will come out directly on the DUST site but we will keep the community informed through all of our channels.
I imagine you'll hear more when the site/forum switches, and Dust Devils community site is ready in a few weeks
I just assumed that Battlefront would want to hit the ground running. Websites are an important part of marketing, and I thought that the new site or at least some info would be up June 1.
Hopefully someone not stuck with a W8 phone can link the pictures of the new stuff. Also, flying lasers for the Axis ...
Hmm. They say anything about Warfare support?
Devil Dogs look good, though the lack of squad alternate seems odd. My brother plays Elite Axis though, so I need to focus on getting more weapons that are good against Infantry 3.
I'm still waiting for those resin infantry models Dust guys were 'considering' over a year ago. Or at least hard plastic versions. Not holding my breath though.
I find the lack of Dust Warfare news deeply disturbing. Frankly, DT isn't a good enough game to keep me involved and up on buying the minis. I'm a Dust Warfare player, and that is pretty definitively (IMO) the REAL Dust game.
The Dust-models site has also been pretty dead, aside from an expensive Hanomag "kitbash" (Using that term loosely as all they did was add in their own guns and give it a funky paint job) they haven't had anything new or noteworthy on display for quite some time now.
It looks like Battlefront takes after GWs advertising model.
Dust needs some serious support or it will go the way of AT 43.
There are a good number of locals who have the game, but they just do not play it. They need PR or other incentives to pick the game back up.
All of this being said, it is good to see the new releases. The devil dogs look good, and I like the Axis flyer variant. It is also good that they are supporting Dust tactics. I assume that they will continue to support Dust warfare, which is the version that I prefer.
Well, let's hope those things coming out will have a bit more punch than the flier wave. There hasn't been anything truly news worthy from Dust since the heavy walkers and the SSU has been a major disappointment for most people I know with their bog standard tanks instead of cool mecha.
His Master's Voice wrote: Well, let's hope those things coming out will have a bit more punch than the flier wave. There hasn't been anything truly news worthy from Dust since the heavy walkers and the SSU has been a major disappointment for most people I know with their bog standard tanks instead of cool mecha.
SSU? Disappointing? That's not the vibe I've gotten from everyone I know/the internet in general.
His Master's Voice wrote: Those actually look like something from Dust, so that's cool. Shame they're probably made from the same stuff the other infantry is.
\
Won't be a problem for me. I have actually started to like the softer plastic that they use for the infantry. Plus it gets pretty sturdy when used to make big, thick things like these walkers.
They're using different materials for the vehicle kits. And I wouldn't mind the material they use for infantry if I could strip the primer, but I have yet to find something that actually works on them.
His Master's Voice wrote: They're using different materials for the vehicle kits. And I wouldn't mind the material they use for infantry if I could strip the primer, but I have yet to find something that actually works on them.
Oh yeah, I know that - I've been playing/collecting almost since Tactics was launched. I've never had any desire to strip the primer off - actually, I really like the pre-primed, pre-assembled aspect of the game. It lets me get straight to painting.
SSU has literally nothing that interests me, except for the light walkers. Everything else just doesn't do anything for me.
Well, at the very least the announcement has "end of the Zverograd cycle" in there, so we should see fewer SSU and more Axis/Allies based around some other theater of war.
Although the entire idea of basing expansions around metaplot is insane. Wargames should be about "your dudes", not some background story the devs are writing.
The lack of "your dudes" is the primary reason I don't play Warmachine.
And the source for this is myself. Since I am/was the German translator for both games I would be really surprised if it would be different.
Paolo was working on the Kryx when AT-43 went belly-up. The Dust universe existed back then in the form of comics and a board game but not as full game. Actually AT-43 is the SF-version of Dust hence the name AT-43 which originally ment Alternate Timeline 1943. Market reaction towards WWII games back then led to the decission that Dust would be first released as a SF game.
After Rackham tanked and took AT-43 and Confrontation with it part of the design team went with Paolo and they put full effort into Dust Tactics, which is actually AT-43 2.0 in WWII. Actually Dust-Earth exists at a point in time of the AT-43 universe.
There will be a rules improvement programm run in the not so far future and quite some original ideas that did not make it into the FFG-version will be revisited .
Alpharius wrote: Is that...really what is the case in the Dust Universe?!?
I think having a playable game faction that runs death camps and plan to exterminate every single human being east of Oder is not a good idea when said game faction is in fact a direct copy of a real life organisation that used to run death camps and planned to exterminate every single human being east of Oder.
The things that fly in 40k do not get the same pass in a much more recent context, for obvious reasons.
In other news, I did find a solution to infantry primer removal. Talens Amsterdam Acrylic Remover. Clean models in 3 minutes. A bit pricey, but sooo worth it. I'm off to buy a bunch of Axis heavy infantry.
Yeah, it's one thing to play a historically accurate recreation of WW2 and some people get feelings hurt even then. This is supposed to be a fun alternate scifi universe and besides Nazis would be just inappropriate and bad for business really. I like that the coup succeeded in dustverse and that Hitlers death just made Germany a stronger faction prolonging the war to 1947. It maintains my historical suspension of disbelief.
Btw the new Joe and Sigrid are nice. Just wish I didn't have to buy a tactics supplement to get em
And the source for this is myself. Since I am/was the German translator for both games I would be really surprised if it would be different.
Paolo was working on the Kryx when AT-43 went belly-up. The Dust universe existed back then in the form of comics and a board game but not as full game. Actually AT-43 is the SF-version of Dust hence the name AT-43 which originally ment Alternate Timeline 1943. Market reaction towards WWII games back then led to the decission that Dust would be first released as a SF game.
My mistake; I coulda sworn both existed on the market for a period. I am glad AT-43's background was written the way it was, as it's my favorite background for any fictional game.
After Rackham tanked and took AT-43 and Confrontation with it part of the design team went with Paolo and they put full effort into Dust Tactics, which is actually AT-43 2.0 in WWII. Actually Dust-Earth exists at a point in time of the AT-43 universe.
Really? I hope Dust Tactics ruleset isn't really AT-43 2.0. I thought AT-43 had a superb ruleset, and there's many of us who still play it. Conversely, I thought Dust Tactics was not very good. I haven't tried Dust Warfare yet, though.
jedi76 wrote: Yeah, it's one thing to play a historically accurate recreation of WW2 and some people get feelings hurt even then. This is supposed to be a fun alternate scifi universe and besides Nazis would be just inappropriate and bad for business really. I like that the coup succeeded in dustverse and that Hitlers death just made Germany a stronger faction prolonging the war to 1947. It maintains my historical suspension of disbelief.
Btw the new Joe and Sigrid are nice. Just wish I didn't have to buy a tactics supplement to get em
Well, it's not like you can simply just extract Nazi Germany from the German OOB in 1944 - even Germany losing the war under Unconditional Surrender and "de-Nazification" didn't really work, as Party members were everywhere in German society and within the Military. You could remove them from power (as the Military did, at the very end). The various Waffen SS units scattered around the fronts wouldn't likely simply disband, join the Heer or easily accept a renaming, either. Stuff like the zombies, gorillas and so forth are also very Nazi/SS in theme, so you might think of them as being no longer in charge and somewhat marginalised, but still very much a part of the German faction.
Really? I hope Dust Tactics ruleset isn't really AT-43 2.0. I thought AT-43 had a superb ruleset, and there's many of us who still play it. Conversely, I thought Dust Tactics was not very good. I haven't tried Dust Warfare yet, though.
Tactics is the board/TT-hybrid to make it easier to get into the game, warfare is a SST/AT-43 hybrid with some new ideas, so yes, both are AT-43 developed in new directions.
jedi76 wrote: Yeah, it's one thing to play a historically accurate recreation of WW2 and some people get feelings hurt even then. This is supposed to be a fun alternate scifi universe and besides Nazis would be just inappropriate and bad for business really. I like that the coup succeeded in dustverse and that Hitlers death just made Germany a stronger faction prolonging the war to 1947. It maintains my historical suspension of disbelief.
Btw the new Joe and Sigrid are nice. Just wish I didn't have to buy a tactics supplement to get em
Well, it's not like you can simply just extract Nazi Germany from the German OOB in 1944 - even Germany losing the war under Unconditional Surrender and "de-Nazification" didn't really work, as Party members were everywhere in German society and within the Military. You could remove them from power (as the Military did, at the very end). The various Waffen SS units scattered around the fronts wouldn't likely simply disband, join the Heer or easily accept a renaming, either. Stuff like the zombies, gorillas and so forth are also very Nazi/SS in theme, so you might think of them as being no longer in charge and somewhat marginalised, but still very much a part of the German faction.
Strange i play russians in Dust Tactics (and soon Bolt action, and also before Stalingrad), but no one is offended by that, as stalin with his purges and army killed more people than "Ze Nazi's"
Also, loads of articles - including a new Tactica series, in addition to my usual Theorycrafting and whatnot.
And, for folks losing hope for Warfare - don't! A lot of good stuff is coming out soon and there is a lot left to look forward to. With the Zverograd cycle ending, who knows what is next! Might find ourselves in the Pacific or in North Africa, etc. And for anyone tired of bendy plastics, the quality has improved greatly as of the last release and most of it is much more firm and the detail has increased significantly!
Strange i play russians in Dust Tactics (and soon Bolt action, and also before Stalingrad), but no one is offended by that, as stalin with his purges and army killed more people than "Ze Nazi's"
It's just one of those funny old things, innit? Though there are certain people who do very much hate the Red Star/Hammer & Sickle, like my friend's mother who hails from the former Yugoslavia with a Hungarian Background...
jedi76 wrote: Yeah, it's one thing to play a historically accurate recreation of WW2 and some people get feelings hurt even then. This is supposed to be a fun alternate scifi universe and besides Nazis would be just inappropriate and bad for business really. I like that the coup succeeded in dustverse and that Hitlers death just made Germany a stronger faction prolonging the war to 1947. It maintains my historical suspension of disbelief.
Btw the new Joe and Sigrid are nice. Just wish I didn't have to buy a tactics supplement to get em
Actually, that's a good point. Hitler was a crap leader; he encouraged so much competition between wings of the Nazi government and military that it only impeded the Nazi military progress. Because of that, I'd have a hard time accepting the idea that Hitler could keep the Nazi regime strong into the late 1940s.
Really? I hope Dust Tactics ruleset isn't really AT-43 2.0. I thought AT-43 had a superb ruleset, and there's many of us who still play it. Conversely, I thought Dust Tactics was not very good. I haven't tried Dust Warfare yet, though.
Tactics is the board/TT-hybrid to make it easier to get into the game, warfare is a SST/AT-43 hybrid with some new ideas, so yes, both are AT-43 developed in new directions.
Does it use the same range and auto-miss/hit/wound mechanic as AT-43? That's one of my favorite aspects of AT-43, the surety of movement/firing.
Does it use the same range and auto-miss/hit/wound mechanic as AT-43? That's one of my favorite aspects of AT-43, the surety of movement/firing.
A system derived from it, but not identical. AT-weapons degraded with distance Dust do not, but both have ranges. Dust is more realistic in the assumption that WWII weapons over the distances that are normal for TT-fights do not degrade much, so it puts the focus on the armor. Depending on the armor the shot gets weaker. Every unit got a table on its stat-card where you can easily read the lines and rows for the unit and weapon in question.
Dust uses dice that hav only two different side. 4 miss-sides and 2 hit-sides. You roll a number of dice for hits and then every hit side counts as damage point (depending on the weapon).
Works mighty fine and depicts WWII fights quite nice.
Jehan-reznor wrote: Strange i play russians in Dust Tactics (and soon Bolt action, and also before Stalingrad), but no one is offended by that, as stalin with his purges and army killed more people than "Ze Nazi's"
Well, Soviets won, Nazis lost. That's how this works, unfortunately.
Does it use the same range and auto-miss/hit/wound mechanic as AT-43? That's one of my favorite aspects of AT-43, the surety of movement/firing.
A system derived from it, but not identical. AT-weapons degraded with distance Dust do not, but both have ranges. Dust is more realistic in the assumption that WWII weapons over the distances that are normal for TT-fights do not degrade much, so it puts the focus on the armor. Depending on the armor the shot gets weaker. Every unit got a table on its stat-card where you can easily read the lines and rows for the unit and weapon in question.
Dust uses dice that hav only two different side. 4 miss-sides and 2 hit-sides. You roll a number of dice for hits and then every hit side counts as damage point (depending on the weapon).
Works mighty fine and depicts WWII fights quite nice.
Yeah, that's quite a bit different. I love certain tactical decisions in AT-43; do my Steel Tacarms shoot their laser guns at this squad of 6 assault golems that is close enough that they will auto hit (and auto kill), or do I take my chances with say, a Hekat overseer that hasn't gone yet that I know will be running 50cm at something important but is farther away and has greater armor so I actually have to roll to hit and roll for damage and hopefully destroy it (or damage it enough so that a single repair routine won't put it back into action), haha. Well, very off-topic at this point, but now I want to schedule an AT-43 game with one of our half dozen local players...
Setting aside the silliness of walkers in general, the thing that I don;t like about them is the "mech arms and hands" of them, when it would be much more efficient, quick and easy (Soviet strengths) to simply mount the weapons on the mechs directly.
Especially so since there's clearly no Iron Man/Apache Gunship style targeting HUD in the suits - I actually like the slit and pull-down canopy - a good reminder that these things are simply made of cast iron armour and such in the 1940s just like the tanks of the era.
It does give off a weird mixed vibe of the usual "soviets are low-tech" paired with those techy arms when you put it like that. Maybe they're just winging it and spraying everything they can see?
Fluff wise, the Steel Guards are war veterans who have had limbs amputated but wish to continue to fight at the front, so the suits serve as armoured prosthetics too (They also get a 'Steel Glove' punch out of having the robo arms for ditching the gun and close quarter fighting)
The waldo arms are likely to help as well in case they fall down, grab a large rock or boulder, tank or whatever is sitting nearby and help pull themselves up. Apparently by the "Steel Glove" entry, also a close combat fighting move
fattdex wrote: Fluff wise, the Steel Guards are war veterans who have had limbs amputated but wish to continue to fight at the front, so the suits serve as armoured prosthetics too (They also get a 'Steel Glove' punch out of having the robo arms for ditching the gun and close quarter fighting)
Huh, and there I was thinking that the suits looked like they had enough space for their arms to be inside the body-shell. I wonder who forgot to close that one guy's hatch though!
Good catch, that does make it quite lethal. It's not auto-hits though, just auto-kill, unless I'm mistaken. It's been a long time since I cracked open my box of Tactics.
When I look at these, and other heavy infantry, it makes think there's really no place for level 1 infantry unless they're manning indirect artillery weapons. They're shredded when someone so much as looks at them.
Moopy wrote: When I look at these, and other heavy infantry, it makes think there's really no place for level 1 infantry unless they're manning indirect artillery weapons. They're shredded when someone so much as looks at them.
I don't think there are any Infantry 1s in the game. Even the Chinese conscripts were I2.
Moopy wrote: When I look at these, and other heavy infantry, it makes think there's really no place for level 1 infantry unless they're manning indirect artillery weapons. They're shredded when someone so much as looks at them.
Well, unless they are in Hard Cover with Entrench, meaning they get +3 successes on top of their 1 Combat Die for armor. Not too shabby, imo.
Then again, my Choppers never live past the Air Drop turn anyhow, but that hardly matters after they deliver their 30+ dice on enemies within 6".
This just got posted up on GF9. Hoping it costs as much as a Medium Walker or at most a Heavy. I want at least one! Comes with some neat fiddly bits, too!
Anyone have release dates for the operation Achilles stuff?
So far looks like operation Achilles is a winner. New joe and sigrid look pretty cool. Much improved on the old ones. Luftwaffe pilot will be good for an objective marker at the very least
Can't wait to make a SSU platoon of steel cans!
And gotta get an axis fortification for my Long Tom 2 to blast into!
The gorillas with jackhammers just make me laugh though.
A system derived from it, but not identical. AT-weapons degraded with distance Dust do not, but both have ranges. Dust is more realistic in the assumption that WWII weapons over the distances that are normal for TT-fights do not degrade much, so it puts the focus on the armor. Depending on the armor the shot gets weaker. Every unit got a table on its stat-card where you can easily read the lines and rows for the unit and weapon in question.
Note that you're Describing Dust Tactics. Warfare has absurdly short ranges, and requires you to buy $20 expansion books to get the single page of new units for your army.
A system derived from it, but not identical. AT-weapons degraded with distance Dust do not, but both have ranges. Dust is more realistic in the assumption that WWII weapons over the distances that are normal for TT-fights do not degrade much, so it puts the focus on the armor. Depending on the armor the shot gets weaker. Every unit got a table on its stat-card where you can easily read the lines and rows for the unit and weapon in question.
Note that you're Describing Dust Tactics. Warfare has absurdly short ranges, and requires you to buy $20 expansion books to get the single page of new units for your army.
And new special rules, fluff, scenarios, and other goodies. Plus the expansion books (which are only $12 from Miniaturemarket) can be shared among friends as they have rules for all the new figs from each faction in the one book. And you can get the rules for the new units for free - there's a big fandriven database of really nice, detailed unit cards for Warfare, and the project is endorsed by Dust Studios.
Funnily, I've always felt that ranges are way too short in Tactics. Range 1 for Shotguns/Flamethrowers, for instance. Still, the ranges in Warfare are short, which is IMO inevitable, considering that the standard board size is 4x4.
A system derived from it, but not identical. AT-weapons degraded with distance Dust do not, but both have ranges. Dust is more realistic in the assumption that WWII weapons over the distances that are normal for TT-fights do not degrade much, so it puts the focus on the armor. Depending on the armor the shot gets weaker. Every unit got a table on its stat-card where you can easily read the lines and rows for the unit and weapon in question.
Note that you're Describing Dust Tactics. Warfare has absurdly short ranges, and requires you to buy $20 expansion books to get the single page of new units for your army.
And new special rules, fluff, scenarios, and other goodies. Plus the expansion books (which are only $12 from Miniaturemarket) can be shared among friends as they have rules for all the new figs from each faction in the one book. And you can get the rules for the new units for free - there's a big fandriven database of really nice, detailed unit cards for Warfare, and the project is endorsed by Dust Studios.
Funnily, I've always felt that ranges are way too short in Tactics. Range 1 for Shotguns/Flamethrowers, for instance. Still, the ranges in Warfare are short, which is IMO inevitable, considering that the standard board size is 4x4.
~Tim?
Things in your post I disagree with:
A: Referring to fluff and scenarios as "goodies" rather than "filler"
B: Stating the standard table size is 4' by 4' rather than 4' by 6'
C: Saying that 12 dollars for one page of Allies units is a good deal because my brother can borrow the book for two pages of Axis units (Half of which are the zombies that he hates.)
Seriously, they spent over a year with 90% of new units being SSU, and instead of doing the right thing and releasing an Allies forcebook, Axis forcebook, and SSU forcebook they trickled them out over a series of books focused on a metaplot nobody in their right mind cares about.
Duncan_Idaho wrote: You might not care for the rest of the book, others do and for them there is more than just one page.
This is a pretty good point, Regault...you are not the market. Dust Studios have to design the books to appeal to lots of people, and therefore they need to have more than just unit stats. For those that want just those stats, there are the stat cards.
~Tim?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
ultimentra wrote: Link to the unit cards for warfare? Im interested,
ultimentra wrote: Link to the unit cards for warfare? Im interested,
We have them hosted on the Dust-War forums. Also, in our downloads section is a nice quick reference sheet.
As for ranges being short - it is a balancing factor. It is part of why the Reaction system works, because you can't just sit back and have a slugging match without needing to actually maneuver and plan your actions extensively.
Also, the standard board at 300AP is 4" x 6", so standard size generally compared to other games.
Boo-yah! Here's some big, big news, straight from Paolo Parente's mouth:
"Today l am the bringer of EXTREMELY GOOD NEWS
Together with the nice people of BF, decision was taken that starting with next Wave of products, DT and DW stats and rules will released at the same time.
Op. Babylon box will include a separate Warfare Rules+Scenarios booklet and DW stats cards as well. Also, every unit box will include DW+DT stat cards.
HAPPY/HAPPY-JOY/JOY I`d say...
And YES, DW CARDS for EVERY DUST UNIT and MODEL KIT will be released!
The SILLY "unofficial" card pantomime IS OVER!"
So, what's the next set of releases going to be? The Vril?
No. Achilles is next, which ends the Zverograd cycle. Then starts Babylon, which looks to be an Africa themed setting. No news on a new faction, just yet.
So, what's the next set of releases going to be? The Vril?
No. Achilles is next, which ends the Zverograd cycle. Then starts Babylon, which looks to be an Africa themed setting. No news on a new faction, just yet.
I'm remember reading a while back that after the Zvergograd cycle, the new cycle will feature a 4th faction, which is more than likely going to be Japan, going on Paolo's hints.
I wonder what is below Zverograd though.... I for sure thought it would be the next faction. Aliens in hibernation attacking from under ground and then sending a signal for help to their homeworld. Awesome!!!!
If it is Japan though I will torn as to which faction to play the most.
If they do Japanese they might release more USMC units as well I hope. Not really sure if I'm excited for japan need pics. Eagerly awaiting something vrilly
Yes the unit cards are long overdew. Almost embarrassing trying to show new people the game without them.
Pael wrote: I wonder what is below Zverograd though.... I for sure thought it would be the next faction. Aliens in hibernation attacking from under ground and then sending a signal for help to their homeworld. Awesome!!!!
No sleeping Aliens beneath Zverograd. The one surving Vrill the Axis found in Antartica managed to get an emergency broadcast out to his homeworld before he was killed, this all happend around 1935.
The instalation beneath the Monastery at Zverograd has been blocked off by the ongoing bombardments and fighting. It will be years before any of the factions will have the opportunity to start digging.
I was so worried about Dust Warfare going the way of the Dodo, but this reinvigorates my enthusiasm easily. Coupled with the awesome looking upcoming models, I am obviously back to buying at least one of everything.
I'm also ahead of the curve for Babylon. I've always painted my Allies in desert colors. :-)
Edit: I don't suppose anyone has the full upcoming release list handy? I noticed Miniatures Market has some preorders up, and I want to try to map out my purchases.
Can anyone who has them tell me how tall the various allied power armour guys are? I mean things like the grim reapers, hammers, tank busters, etc.,.
I'm looking to convert up some sci-fi power armour and want it to look right when it's standing next to the typical 28mm miniature (unlike GW Space Marines who are way too short).
frozenwastes wrote: Can anyone who has them tell me how tall the various allied power armour guys are? I mean things like the grim reapers, hammers, tank busters, etc.,.
I'm looking to convert up some sci-fi power armour and want it to look right when it's standing next to the typical 28mm miniature (unlike GW Space Marines who are way too short).
I've only got Hammers to hand at the moment. sole of feet to top of head is 4cm
Hope that helps.
British publisher Modiphius Entertainment has announced a licensing deal with Paolo Parente’s DUST Studio to create a tabletop roleplaying game set in the DUST universe.
Scheduled for Spring-Summer 2014, DUST Adventures will consist of a core rulebook and setting guide and will be followed by supplements and campaigns. The books will feature both new artwork as well as stunning photography of DUST miniatures.
Floris wrote: British publisher Modiphius Entertainment has announced a licensing deal with Paolo Parente’s DUST Studio to create a tabletop roleplaying game set in the DUST universe.
Scheduled for Spring-Summer 2014, DUST Adventures will consist of a core rulebook and setting guide and will be followed by supplements and campaigns. The books will feature both new artwork as well as stunning photography of DUST miniatures.
I was also interested to see that they will also include new scenarios for Dust Warfare and Dust tactic players in the RPG books to allow larger battles to take place as part of the campaigns
[update]
According to the Modiphius forums, this system is not the same as the RPG in Dust Chronicles, but it's writer is involved in the design and development of this new system. The RPG will be using similar mechanics to DT/DW and uses the same dice to provide continuity for players and plenty of crossover scope.. Now those extra scenarios make more sense. There will also apparently be rules on how to move characters to/from DT/DW and the RPG
Battlefront posted a news release on the Dust-War forums. Figured I would share!
As for Wave 8 - that will be out in the last of the Campaign Books, in this case, Achilles. Should be out in a few months and hopefully will be the last of the Warfare releases that come after Tactics. As of Babylon, things will be released in one go.
Some new rumors regarding upcoming faction release schedule, and Battlefront release news(From Dust Day Italy via Unit Forward):
- Between October and November Axis NDAK, Desert Spetnaz and desert Allies, every box set will have a number of units, in the Axis one there will be the Lagdluther.
Every box will be an limited edition of 2000 pieces pre painted and not.
-Battlefront cry for starter set with current models there are a decision in a few days-
-January 2014 will see the new Tactics edition, 40-50$ limited edition (Rules, models and two walkers)
-Japan: girls with katanas and giant robots.
-Vril will come, very alien. It will be a confederation of alien worlds.
-No more Jump in the Tactics 2.0, some unit can fly (there will be changes in the respective cards)
-In the Tactics 2.0 you can play specialized lists (i.e. Blutkreuz)
Personally, I can't wait for the Japanese faction, although I'm a bit cautious about the "girls with katanas" bit. The Vril, I'm sure, everyone is interested to see. The word is early 2015 for them. More factions should hopefully draw in more people. Apparently new units will have both Tactics and Warfare cards as well.
Starfarer wrote: Some new rumors regarding upcoming faction release schedule, and Battlefront release news(From Dust Day Italy via Unit Forward):
- Between October and November Axis NDAK, Desert Spetnaz and desert Allies, every box set will have a number of units, in the Axis one there will be the Lagdluther.
Every box will be an limited edition of 2000 pieces pre painted and not.
-Battlefront cry for starter set with current models there are a decision in a few days-
-January 2014 will see the new Tactics edition, 40-50$ limited edition (Rules, models and two walkers)
-Japan: girls with katanas and giant robots.
-Vril will come, very alien. It will be a confederation of alien worlds.
-No more Jump in the Tactics 2.0, some unit can fly (there will be changes in the respective cards)
-In the Tactics 2.0 you can play specialized lists (i.e. Blutkreuz)
Personally, I can't wait for the Japanese faction, although I'm a bit cautious about the "girls with katanas" bit. The Vril, I'm sure, everyone is interested to see. The word is early 2015 for them. More factions should hopefully draw in more people. Apparently new units will have both Tactics and Warfare cards as well.
Geez, everyone knows the Japanese army stopped using girls with katanas after the Russo-Japanese War.
Duncan_Idaho wrote: Forget those rumors, they have been debunked as unfounded.
What, the girls with katanas bit? Or all of them? Because I know for a fact that Paolo confirmed that we'll at the least be getting Japanese next, and we'll be seeing army boxes as well. Same for the Warfare cards.
Duncan_Idaho wrote: Forget those rumors, they have been debunked as unfounded.
What, the girls with katanas bit? Or all of them? Because I know for a fact that Paolo confirmed that we'll at the least be getting Japanese next, and we'll be seeing army boxes as well. Same for the Warfare cards.
~Tim?
I'm pretty sure hw was talking to the guy that posted right above him.
Would you care to give any specifics? Because a friend of mine was told very similar information to some of those rumors directly from Paolo at Gencon last month.
Starfarer wrote: Would you care to give any specifics? Because a friend of mine was told very similar information to some of those rumors directly from Paolo at Gencon last month.
Right, heard back from Paolo: He confirms all of the rumors, save for the bit about the Japanese being girls with katanas. He also said that release dates are still being settled on.
Paolo Parente Euen! these things are under development for real... however we are still working on the release dates
Paolo Parente l have playtested DT V.2 with flying units that used to have jump... it was great fun
Well, that´s Paolos actual reply.
I.e. it is in development and one route they might go but still it is possible that it wil change.
Still, that takes the rumors out of rumor land. Instead of them being just fan chatter on the internet, we have confirmation that plans are to release these things and that they're under development.
They have .pdfs of the rulebook and campaign expansions for Dust Tactics. For anyone who may be interested in learning about the game or the rules for Tactics, you should download the rules and check it out!
All factions have their own starter set for Dust Tactics now. Warfare is getting new card decks for each faction. Redesigned cards for both Tactics and Warfare are in the works, and the starter set preview shows these off in the link.
The starter sets I believe will retail at $50, although places like Miniature Market and The Warstore carry them at a discount. You can find more information about the new sets in this interview Battlefront Miniatures did with Beasts if War recently: http://www.dust-tactics.com/Home/tabid/56/entryid/94/Default.aspx
Lastly, the Japanese faction should be out this year, but no concrete information on that just yet!
I don't believe they have announced a release date, but there were general statements of "early 2014." There is a lot of stuff in the pipeline, but I'm sure these sets will be out before Operation Babylon, which be a campaign set in North Africa and is also planned for release in the near future.
If you are thinking about getting into the game, you can find the current starter set, which has 2 factions, typically discounted to $50-60 online, although I've seen some copies selling on Ebay and other places as low as $40. It is a good way to get started, especially if you can split it with a friend. The only issue is there is some overlap on units with Axis between the current and upcoming sets, but even there the only unit you probably would not want two of are the Heavy Laser Grenadiers.
Very cool models, these are something I'd like to collect.
Maybe I'm reading the site wrong or missing something, but it says most of these are "Dust Premium" and are pre-painted, not to mention expensive. I can't seem to find the newer releases in an unpainted version.
Huh, didn't know this game was still going, though that may just be because my flgs has sold off all their stock of it at a pittance. From what I played it was interesting, pity nobody plays it anymore around here. =/
@ Cave_Dweller
I think that's a site dedicated to just selling pre painted models and conversions rather than the base kits. Fantasy Flight Game's site has full listings.
Oh, and question. Are the Aks that the SSU wield available separately, and at a price suitable to buy in enough numbers to outfit say thirty troopers? They're kind of the look I'm going for with my Fallout Chinese Remnants.
Cave_Dweller wrote: Very cool models, these are something I'd like to collect.
Maybe I'm reading the site wrong or missing something, but it says most of these are "Dust Premium" and are pre-painted, not to mention expensive. I can't seem to find the newer releases in an unpainted version.
Dust is kind of a buying fup right now. FFG has the rights to the current models until they sell out, so Battlefront can't sell them yet. Then we are waiting to for Battlefront to start release the new waves of models, but there keep the cards close to there chest. Me I'm waiting to see if they jack the price up, to be inline with there FoW cost, I'll stop buying Dust if they do that (more then enough model to keep playing). So as for your question, you get the non-painted one from FFG for now.
Cave_Dweller wrote: Very cool models, these are something I'd like to collect.
Maybe I'm reading the site wrong or missing something, but it says most of these are "Dust Premium" and are pre-painted, not to mention expensive. I can't seem to find the newer releases in an unpainted version.
You can buy most kits from FFG, or from other online retailers, like Miniature Market and The Warstore, which sell at 20-30% off retail. This is typically where I purchase mine. The unpainted kits all come assembled and pre-primed. Dust Studios also sells both 1:35 and 1:48 scale kits, but these are higher quality plastic and resin multi-piece kits, and are somewhat more geared towards modelers than for gaming, although they can absolutely be used on the table, at least for the 1:48 scale kits. The 1:35 are purely hobby models and not in correct scale for gaming. These are closer to GW prices for the Dust Studios kits.
Noir wrote: Then we are waiting to for Battlefront to start release the new waves of models, but there keep the cards close to there chest. Me I'm waiting to see if they jack the price up, to be inline with there FoW cost, I'll stop buying Dust if they do that (more then enough model to keep playing).
Well, the first few kits have already been released by Battlefront and the prices have not gone up at all, so I don't really think it is something to worry about.
Bob the Accountant wrote: Forgive me if this has already been discussed, but are the Warfare campaign books being done away with for future releases?
From what Steven told me during our little Q&A, it seems they are going over to PDF formats for those. I think with official cards coming out, the need for printed books does seem less useful and also allows them to be released at the same time as the Tactics models a lot easier.
Bob the Accountant wrote: Forgive me if this has already been discussed, but are the Warfare campaign books being done away with for future releases?
From what Steven told me during our little Q&A, it seems they are going over to PDF formats for those. I think with official cards coming out, the need for printed books does seem less useful and also allows them to be released at the same time as the Tactics models a lot easier.
I assume they are planning a big relaunch once all the 'who can sell what' things are settled?
The sale seems to have killed any momentum this game had which is a shame.
I like the new(?) Bazooka Joe, much better than the original starter set who was shaped not unlike a pear.
They don't control what models are released. They are just in charge of distribution and the Warfare rules.
Also, so everyone knows, these new starter sets are really almost entirely geared to Tactics. Aside from the models themselves, nothing else in it is really for Warfare.
plastictrees wrote: I assume they are planning a big relaunch once all the 'who can sell what' things are settled?
The sale seems to have killed any momentum this game had which is a shame.
I like the new(?) Bazooka Joe, much better than the original starter set who was shaped not unlike a pear.
I'm not sure how that will play out exactly. The new starter sets are still 1.0 rules. There seem to be some minor changes, but the core rules are more or less the same. They are working on Tactics 2.0 from what I gather, so there may be a bigger push whenever those new rules come out, although the game functions pretty good as is. I think Warfare players are the ones hoping for more changes, and I have every intention to play Warfare as well(I have 2 copies of the rulebook already haha) but I'm still fairly new to Dust and my friends are pretty happy playing Tactics currently.
FFG just had a huge Dust sale for Black Friday and I scooped up a ton of units that made me damn near giddy considering how much I got for what a single GW kit goes for these days. I fact I just sold the last of my GW stuff, and am pretty excited about Dust. So while some momentum may have died off due to the changeover, if they can pull a 20 year GW vet away completely, with cheap quality models, tight rules and a cool game background, I'm sure they can swing momentum back up with the new releases they are pumping out lately. They are even doing open betas for the campaign releases from BF, so they are really involving the community in transition I feel. Basically, everything that Dakka complains that GW would doesn't do, they have done for their game.
Just picked up 5 boxes of Dust for $5 a box due to a clearance sale of them on ebay. Hoping to use them for Infinity as Kazaks, so I will see how I go with them. If not, I can always flog them on to someone else.
Wish shipping was cheaper from Miniature Market. Would love to pick up some of the terrain they have going cheap for this to use, but shipping prices are just ludicrous.
Their moving sale makes the shipping a wee bit better to swallow, I picked up a pair of Leviathan arms myself from them, despite the rather steep shipping fees involves.
The starter rules seems to be pushing the idea that Tactics should be an smaller easier version of warfare. Which I think is great something that should have been there from the beginning. I can't wait to see what else BF has in store.
Battlefront has also previewed the new Dust Tactics cards that will be released alongside DT 2.0, which should be released in the next 1-2 months. The most dramatic change is that the point values have been cut by 2/3rds, so the "standard" game size is now 100 points rather than 300. Cards preview is here: http://www.dust-tactics.com/Home/tabid/56/entryid/140/Default.aspx
The new starter sets are finally out in the wild and seem to be available at many FLGS, but some online retailers still have them on pre-order. They retail for $50, but Miniature Market has them for $35 and The Warstore for $38. If you've been considering starting the game, these are all solid starter forces.
Personally, with the increased complexity and ever expanding rules releases happening in 40k, it is a breath of fresh air to play a straight forward, but very tactical game that can be set up and played in around an hour. Not to mention a full starter force cost the equivalent of a single unit in 40k. Not trying to hate on 40k, but this game just checks all the boxes for me that 40k doesn't any more. High quality models, clear and balanced rules and very cheap in comparison to a lot of other games and plays quickly.
I have only been playing a few months and have not used these updated rules yet, but if you have any questions about the game in general, I'm happy to answer any questions as best I can. The Babylon expansion(North Africa campaign) is just around the corner as well as the new rule book, so it is a great time to get into the game if you are interested!
Well, between Paolo saying he basically wanted to merge Warfare into Tactics (as per a recent interview) and the overall weakness of the support from the parent company, I think the smart thing to do would be to get out as fast as you can if you are a Warfare player. Looks that despite Warfare cards, the game has pushed over to pdf books and almost zero support, especially given the pathetic attempt at "fan-run" organized play for Dust. I had high hopes for Warfare, but I saw no worthwhile future, resulting in my closing down my site Dust-War.com and offloading my army.
Oh and this little freakout from Paolo made me chuckle. The overall mood of a good chunk of the playerbase has been negative in regards to the new Tactics rules and the "shut up and wait" attitudes.
@em en oh pee, do you have the site. I can't seem to locate it. I am curios to read the responses.
It was not very professional thing for Paolo to say.he could have just said wait for the rules to give it a chance. Instead, he berated those with concerns and dismissed them as unintelligent.
@em en oh pee, do you have the site. I can't seem to locate it. I am curios to read the responses.
It was not very professional thing for Paolo to say.he could have just said wait for the rules to give it a chance. Instead, he berated those with concerns and dismissed them as unintelligent.
That is from the Dust Tactics Facebook group, where he posts with some regularity. It wound up getting nasty and the Dust Studio folks wound up banning people, from what I hear.
Sad, sad fate for a game that had such promise, as least in regards to Warfare.
It was not very professional thing for Paolo to say.he could have just said wait for the rules to give it a chance. Instead, he berated those with concerns and dismissed them as unintelligent.
Hardly. He's having a human reaction to the useless stupidity of nerd rage from a select group of people because things got changed.
Things they haven't even fully seen.
So if they want to say "I'm outta here" then it's get out and don't expect us to beg to come back.
Wow em_en_oh_pee, are you really going to try and spread this nonsense just because YOU didn't like that Battlefront wasn't moving at your pace? Look, it's one thing that you wanted to rage quit and shut down your DW forums for whatever perceived faults you have with Battlefront or whoever you blame for Dust Warfare. So far literally nothing has changed with the game you once championed aside from new unit cards. Seriously though if you have a problem with the game that's fine but you are really going to try and dissuade people from the game just because you stop liking it? You JUST wrote articles on BoLS about how great it was like a month ago!
I have no vested interest in Dust Warfare, so I don't care as much about the changes that may or may not be coming, but so far, the rules aren't even out for Dust Tactics 2.0 or Warfare 2.0 and aisde from you and a few others, everyone in the Dust community seems excited about it. Oddly enough the Dust forums have got A LOT less negative since you rage quit.
I'm not trying to pick a fight or start drama here, but seriously, if you don't like the game anymore just move on. There is no need to paint the game in a bad light because they are bringing out new rules we haven't even seen yet. That is basically what your sudden crusade against Dust boils down.
Starfarer wrote: Wow em_en_oh_pee, are you really going to try and spread this nonsense just because YOU didn't like that Battlefront wasn't moving at your pace? Look, it's one thing that you wanted to rage quit and shut down your DW forums for whatever perceived faults you have with Battlefront or whoever you blame for Dust Warfare. So far literally nothing has changed with the game you once championed aside from new unit cards. Seriously though if you have a problem with the game that's fine but you are really going to try and dissuade people from the game just because you stop liking it? You JUST wrote articles on BoLS about how great it was like a month ago!
I have no vested interest in Dust Warfare, so I don't care as much about the changes that may or may not be coming, but so far, the rules aren't even out for Dust Tactics 2.0 or Warfare 2.0 and aisde from you and a few others, everyone in the Dust community seems excited about it. Oddly enough the Dust forums have got A LOT less negative since you rage quit.
I'm not trying to pick a fight or start drama here, but seriously, if you don't like the game anymore just move on. There is no need to paint the game in a bad light because they are bringing out new rules we haven't even seen yet. That is basically what your sudden crusade against Dust boils down.
I didn't rage quit. The game went in a bad direction. The Achilles Beta robbed me of any faith I had in Battlefront. They didn't know rules and took a crap attitude when it was pointed out by others.The month-long Beta took months and a "shut up and wait attitude was all the players got. Also, the community is pretty toxic. I wrote the article for BoLS because I tried hard to keep things positive online to help bolster the game. I ran what I thought was a pretty helpful website for new and old players alike, helping to support the game with weekly articles, content, and forums. Despite that, the general divisiveness got to be a bit much.
Also, I didn't stop liking Warfare. I love the game - they are one of the better sets of rules I have played. The models are not bad and the fluff is fun Weird War stuff that I enjoy.
What I don't like is a creator who does not want to see the game I play continue to exist and a creative team that has zero idea what it is doing and in that, basically are homogenizing the games, despite them being balanced very differently. Achilles proved they were just lost when it came to Warfare and after that, along with the pervasive community negativity, I left.
It is hard for me to support a game and system given that circumstance. Why buy into Warfare if it is just going to go AT-43? Right now, it is tough to know how much support Warfare is going to get beyond just a few cards here and there, in essence maintaining that whole "other game" status that Warfare players hated. So why encourage people to jump in and potentially waste their money?
Just a note that this is the second time you offloaded your army. I have to agree with Starfarer though MNOP. Just because things aren't done your way doesn't give you the right to bash how things are done. It gives you the right to quit playing and go somewhere else though. So please head over to burger king and have it your way there. ...end rant...
Moopy wrote: I agree with Starfarer, you're going to have to back up your conjecture about the ".pdfs only" and "no support"
Because a company doesn't spend a lot of money to get a new release if there's no support. That makes zero business sense.
I did an interview with Steve from Battlefront for my now-closed website Dust-War.com and he stated that they would be going to a pdf format. Also, it is probably cheaper to do cards than sourcebooks, so it isn't like they are putting a lot into Warfare. They just distribute it generally, so tossing out some cards isn't that big of an investment, even if they have no long-term future for the game.
As for "no support" - I mean in the form of solid organized play and printed source material. All Warfare is looking to get is cards and tokens, two things so long overdue it is absurd and no-brainers, but hardly indicative of a strong future. But that is my opinion - but I am looking at the trend and attitude overall, so I am just calling it as I see it.
Just a note that this is the second time you offloaded your army. I have to agree with Starfarer though MNOP. Just because things aren't done your way doesn't give you the right to bash how things are done. It gives you the right to quit playing and go somewhere else though. So please head over to burger king and have it your way there. ...end rant...
No, the first time the deal fell through. Not that it is anyone's business.
Also, it was never about my way. It was about the game's overall direction looking less and less good as the months crawled on after the June switch, where we went what? 3 months without a single word on the game's future? Then we got Battlefront telling us to shut up and wait, then we got the craptastic Beta. What was there to be positive about? I was not the only one to ditch (such as the dozen or so locals who have since quit, for instance), nor should I feel obligated to just move along. I put more into promoting Warfare online than just about anyone, so do excuse me if I feel like expressing caution to those looking to get into it. Again, it is my opinion and everyone is entitled to one and I am more than free to express it.
em_en_oh_pee wrote: The Achilles Beta robbed me of any faith I had in Battlefront. They didn't know rules and took a crap attitude when it was pointed out by others.
Battlefront doesn't know rules.... right. That must be why Flames of War is a total failure.
People can also take a crap attitude when they think their "great suggestions" aren't automatically accepted by someone else.
Moopy wrote: [quote=em_en_oh_pee 325313 6677953 0220b39fc551015f924fdf49091d40c6.jpg The Achilles Beta robbed me of any faith I had in Battlefront. They didn't know rules and took a crap attitude when it was pointed out by others.
Battlefront doesn't know rules.... right. That must be why Flames of War is a total failure.
People can also take a crap attitude when they think their "great suggestions" aren't automatically accepted by someone else.
They literally didn't know how grenades worked in Dust Warfare. Or Sniper. Those are two instances I remember distinctly. You don't know me, so I guess you think I am just some jerk ranting on the internet, but I actually worked with FFG on Warfare as a playtester and did a bit of freelance work for them. I also ran the largest Warfare website/forum and also wrote for BoLS on Warfare. Also, they didn't offer up any suggestions, they simply didn't grasp why there were issues in their Beta, because they didn't know the rules and the general attitude wasn't pleasant. It can be chalked up to stress of getting a whole new game dumped on their lap and a demanding fanbase, though, so maybe that was the case. Either way, it was not encouraging after having had such pleasant, consistent, and supportive dealings with FFG's team.
That could also be construed as the old guard does not like the new guard.
What this discussion really boils down to a matter of perception.
Your perception: things are not going well.
Others: NOPE, looks good.
If the rest of us don't speak up, then posts saying "RIP DUST" are going to poison people's perception of the future of the game. I've been looking through the a large amount of the FB group's posts and they're upbeat. The people that I play with aren't worried.
Ultimately it's premature to declare the decline of game before the full set of FINALIZED rules is our hands.
So the Dust Warfare game that is the tabletop minis game version is somewhat being sidelined? That is a bit surprising. If anything, I would have expected the board game one to be downplayed but that just be my own bias at play. I hadn't heard much about this and just expected it to go the way of Leviathans and AT-43... promising games with extensive good looking lineups that just didn't catch on. If I didn't swear to myself not to get more games that don't have local communities, I would have gotten it. I broke my rule for Robotech (on top of the always dead Heavy Gear) but, hey, there is some serious 80's nostalgia to contend with there. I should have stuck to my rule though...
Moopy wrote: That could also be construed as the old guard does not like the new guard.
What this discussion really boils down to a matter of perception.
Your perception: things are not going well.
Others: NOPE, looks good.
If the rest of us don't speak up, then posts saying "RIP DUST" are going to poison people's perception of the future of the game. I've been looking through the a large amount of the FB group's posts and they're upbeat. The people that I play with aren't worried.
Ultimately it's premature to declare the decline of game before the full set of FINALIZED rules is our hands.
I am not old guard. I don't do Tactics - never did. I am not saying RIP DUST, I am saying that the future of Warfare is uncertain or worse. Personally, I err towards worse.
Also, the FB groups have been purged of naysayers, from what I hear. Oh well, I got no real dog in that fight anyhow. Tactics was never my cup of tea.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
warboss wrote: So the Dust Warfare game that is the tabletop minis game version is somewhat being sidelined? That is a bit surprising. If anything, I would have expected the board game one to be downplayed but that just be my own bias at play. I hadn't heard much about this and just expected it to go the way of Leviathans and AT-43... promising games with extensive good looking lineups that just didn't catch on. If I didn't swear to myself not to get more games that don't have local communities, I would have gotten it. I broke my rule for Robotech (on top of the always dead Heavy Gear) but, hey, there is some serious 80's nostalgia to contend with there. I should have stuck to my rule though...
The boardgame creator doesn't like the tabletop game and has said that for the health of the game as a whole (Tactics), he wants to see Warfare incorporated into Tactics - with options for gridded and tabletop available. Something akin to that. Not encouraging to Warfare players, since Tactics is pretty different.
And now I have said my piece and will go back to working on stuff for the games I do play.
Moopy wrote: That could also be construed as the old guard does not like the new guard.
What this discussion really boils down to a matter of perception.
Your perception: things are not going well.
Others: NOPE, looks good.
If the rest of us don't speak up, then posts saying "RIP DUST" are going to poison people's perception of the future of the game. I've been looking through the a large amount of the FB group's posts and they're upbeat. The people that I play with aren't worried.
Ultimately it's premature to declare the decline of game before the full set of FINALIZED rules is our hands.
Exactly this.
warboss wrote: So the Dust Warfare game that is the tabletop minis game version is somewhat being sidelined? That is a bit surprising. If anything, I would have expected the board game one to be downplayed but that just be my own bias at play. I hadn't heard much about this and just expected it to go the way of Leviathans and AT-43... promising games with extensive good looking lineups that just didn't catch on. If I didn't swear to myself not to get more games that don't have local communities, I would have gotten it. I broke my rule for Robotech (on top of the always dead Heavy Gear) but, hey, there is some serious 80's nostalgia to contend with there. I should have stuck to my rule though...
This is not the case at all. To give you a brief rundown of the past few months, here basically what has happened. A few DW players felt marginalized because Dust Tactics was getting rules releases first. This is mainly because DT uses unit cards and expansion sets contain rules for new units that are released. There are not army books. These rules are also released for free in .pdf form if you don't want the expansion minis. DW has campaign books rather than the expansion boxes as they don't use the tiles or rules contained within. DW players were partially peeved because they would have to buy expansions for the character minis but didn't need the tiles or DT rules contained in the boxes. Additionally the DW campaign books come out a little bit after the DT expansions.
To remedy this, they released DW unit cards for all factions for $10 a set. Going forward this allows them to include cards for both DT and DW in the unit boxes and thus allow for simultaneous releases for both DT and DW. For whatever reason this is no good for a handful of DW players like MNOP either. They now complain that the new starter sets are only for DT because they contain the DT rules and DT dice, which has always been the case! Literally nothing has changed except DW now gets rules at the same time as DT, which is an improvement.
Also, DT is scheduled to get a new rulebook in a few months. MNOP and a few others are angry DW isn't getting new rules too, except they are, just after DT. So I guess he has decided to distort the situation and claim Battlefront is abandoning DW and take out of context quote from creator Paolo Parente to claim they are merging the games. This is quite easily disproven by the simple fact we now know DT is getting the points costs lowered by 2/3rds in the new rules and DW is staying with the same points system they've had. If they were moving closer in gameplay, you would think they would use similar points structures rather than moving further apart, no?
Lastly, MNOP is trying to paint the Dust community as somehow is turmoil or unhappy about the changes. Aside from himself and like 3 other guys on the Dust forums constantly complaining because BF doesn't give them daily updates, everyone is very excited about the upcoming changes. Sadly, he has decided to spread FUD about the game and make comparison to AT-43, partly, I think because BF didn't bend over backwards for him just because he ran a DW forum and he felt entitled to a say in the direction of the game.
I don't understand that comment. The exact same game pieces are used in both games and there are rules/support for both, I don't see what the issue is.
I thought we had insider info that the Boardgame was being prioritized over the Table Top game, and that the mandate was to fold the Table Top version in the Boardgame version?
Alpharius, he is spreading misinformation because he is unhappy with the game. What is actually happening is that the Tactics 2.0 rules will have rules for both playing on a grid and without. Which is great, because the Tactics rules are very good. I feel some people like yourself are automatically put off thinking of it as a simple boardgame because of the tiles. I personally was skeptical coming from a tabletop background, but I love it! Basically don't knock it til you try it. Anyway, having the option to simply change from a grid to measurements will be an option in the new Tactics rules. So now you can play the boardgame without the board if you like.
However, Dust Warfare will STILL EXIST. they are different games and Battlefront has confirmed they will support both. Below I've added a quote from Andrew Haught from Battlefront Miniatures, who responded on the Dust forums directly, regarding this:
Andrew Haught wrote:We are supporting warfare, in our minds there are two games, tactics and warfare. There will be two ways to play tactics because it is as simple as swapping squares for measurements for those who want to play tactics on a war-gaming table.
We are coming out with warfare cards both in box sets and in all of our models moving forward. We plan on supporting future releases like we did before with Achilles using player supported playtesting, giving all players a chance to help make warfare great.
We love the passion players have for warfare and will continue to support it moving forward.
-Battlefront
Pretty cut and dry answer on the matter.
And as for the claims that Warfare players are unhappy about the new cards and releases, I've linked the newest 2 threads about Warfare from the Dust forums.
The community is not toxic as MNOP has suggested. The toxicity was only coming from him, and he's left now.
Basically this was just a case of a fan feeling entitled to tell the game makers how they should make the game, they did not implement that feedback and he quit the game and shut down his DW forum. Now he is trying to spread false claims to make people doubt the future of the game.
Separate issues. People had a freak out because Tactics got new dice, which are totally optional(just have new symbols on them). People liked there old dice and were mad about it. There was also some doom and gloom about this as it is one of BF first releases of new stuff and people fear change and freak out about very minor things.
I believe that is what Paolo was responding to. MNOP is mad because during the Achilles beta they didn't take his feedback into account for the final rules(that's my feeling anyway) and he quit the game and shut down his forums.
I don't frequent the Facebooks group, simply because I don't really use Facebook. I was more referring to the Dust forums, and the claims that it was toxic, when that is far from the case.
Moopy has said he is a member of the FB group, so maybe he can provide some more info on what is going on there.
Andrew Haught wrote:We are supporting warfare, in our minds there are two games, tactics and warfare. There will be two ways to play tactics because it is as simple as swapping squares for measurements for those who want to play tactics on a war-gaming table.
Pretty cut and dry answer on the matter.
I agree that it is pretty cut and dry in your quote and post but I don't think I'm coming to the same conclusion judging from the overall opinion of your post. Taking a board game and just assigning inches to it based on the tiles doesn't make it a good wargame. The bolded part of the post above (obviously taken in exclusion but I don't think out of context) is quite worrisome. Again, my experience with this system is limited to watching a demo but in general what makes a good board game doesn't translate well over to making a good wargame. I don't think that was the point you were trying to drive home though.
I agree that it is pretty cut and dry in your quote and post but I don't think I'm coming to the same conclusion judging from the overall opinion of your post. Taking a board game and just assigning inches to it based on the tiles doesn't make it a good wargame. The bolded part of the post above (obviously taken in exclusion but I don't think out of context) is quite worrisome. Again, my experience with this system is limited to watching a demo but in general what makes a good board game doesn't translate well over to making a good wargame. I don't think that was the point you were trying to drive home though.
I think of Dust Tactics as a wargame played on a grid system. Yes it is a miniatures game played on I board, but it plays like a wargame in many respects. This is part of the reason I enjoy it, even though when my friends were trying to get me into it I was skeptical. I think the boardgame aspect throws a lot of people off, it did for me at first. That being said, I don't think switching from grids to measurements will translate poorly. The grids only determine movement and LOS, so removing them doesn't fundamentally change how it will play IMO. I guess we'll have wait and see when the new rules come out.
One thing that I think is often overlooked is that Dust tactics is a good way to get non-wargamers into wargaming. By then having an option to remove the grid, you get a little closer to a traditional wargame. Finally if you want more complex rules and a full wargame experience you can move over to Dust Warfare. It is also nice to just have 2 different games to play with the same miniatures. There will be 3 once the Dust tabletop RPG is released!
plastictrees wrote: I think it means that tactics can be played on a board or off, and then warfare will ALSO be a seperate game. But it's not super clear.
And for the record, this is one of the reasons I left that community. See how much was negativity has been attached to me by a single poster? All I said was I warned against Warfare because it has an uncertain future per the words of the game's creator (Paolo). It was recorded in an interview at the Dust World Expo, I believe, that he said for the health of the game (Tactics), he would be working to fold Warfare into Tactics. That doesn't bode well for a game already relegated to "that other game" by BF and Dust Studio. Nothing I am "spreading" is "misinformation" - it is news and rumors, which seem appropriately placed on this thread in this board, wouldn't you say?
On an aside, I ran a big website with weekly multi-thousand word articles on the game, lists, reviews, rules, etc. I did fan-fic, as well as weekly Dust-related gaming gallery images. I did custom unit rules, had game-aids and a forum that was a pretty good place and even started making video reviews before the BF switch. I did all of this and more for Warfare. That I am just a mad rage-quitter is a stretch, since I spent something like 10+ hours a week, sometimes up to 20, on the website (and associated websites) promoting Dust Warfare. I only left the game when the community became too negative and the game looked to be further and further marginalized by its creators and designers. Funny how fast people forget all the good Dust-War did for Warfare.
Please, Starfarer, do quit putting words into my mouth and attaching my name to claims you are making as though I am some ringleader of negativity. That little pissy tirade from Paolo came at least a month after I quit wholesale and abandoned all Dust-related websites. I can't imagine I am the only one with some complaints as to the direction of the game(s).
So much for that "I'm not trying to pick a fight or start drama here" claim - hard to do that when you basically drag my name through the mud.
Kinda getting back on track. Dust has always been a waiting game. It takes a bit longer but once releases come out they come in a massive flood. It has been a bit of a longer stretch lately with not as much released but that could be due to BF taking over.
One thing I don't quite understand is the lack of the newer factions. This is going to hurt Dust more than anything. People are only going to wait so long for rumored armies. I know a handful of guys who passed on Dust because they got tired of waiting for the alien faction talked about from the beginning of AEG days.
Variety will bring in more players than rules will any day.
All I have to say is that I'm very encouraged by the release of the Warfare cards. We should've had those from day one. The way FFG had organized the campaign books was rather a mess - the pages were misnumbered and special rules were scattered all over the place, so you had to stop everything for a good while if you needed to check the rules. Not good. The new cards completely fix that. Plus, $10 for a faction pack is a good price.
em_en_oh_pee wrote: And for the record, this is one of the reasons I left that community. See how much was negativity has been attached to me by a single poster? All I said was I warned against Warfare because it has an uncertain future per the words of the game's creator (Paolo). It was recorded in an interview at the Dust World Expo, I believe, that he said for the health of the game (Tactics), he would be working to fold Warfare into Tactics. That doesn't bode well for a game already relegated to "that other game" by BF and Dust Studio. Nothing I am "spreading" is "misinformation" - it is news and rumors, which seem appropriately placed on this thread in this board, wouldn't you say?
On an aside, I ran a big website with weekly multi-thousand word articles on the game, lists, reviews, rules, etc. I did fan-fic, as well as weekly Dust-related gaming gallery images. I did custom unit rules, had game-aids and a forum that was a pretty good place and even started making video reviews before the BF switch. I did all of this and more for Warfare. That I am just a mad rage-quitter is a stretch, since I spent something like 10+ hours a week, sometimes up to 20, on the website (and associated websites) promoting Dust Warfare. I only left the game when the community became too negative and the game looked to be further and further marginalized by its creators and designers. Funny how fast people forget all the good Dust-War did for Warfare.
Please, Starfarer, do quit putting words into my mouth and attaching my name to claims you are making as though I am some ringleader of negativity. That little pissy tirade from Paolo came at least a month after I quit wholesale and abandoned all Dust-related websites. I can't imagine I am the only one with some complaints as to the direction of the game(s).
So much for that "I'm not trying to pick a fight or start drama here" claim - hard to do that when you basically drag my name through the mud.
You have made numerous unfounded claims in this thread and backed it up with no sources or links to these quotes. Please link the Paolo interview where he said any of that. If it is just News and Rumors, then you are advising people to "run from DW as fast as you can" based on rumors, despite direct statements from Battlefront that contradict what you are claiming. I heard 40k 7th edition is coming, better quit now cause things might change! That is essentially what you are telling people. You are spreading FUD(fear, uncertainty, doubt) because of your personal issues with Dust and Battlefront. In my mind you are misinforming people based on unsubstantiated rumors and encouraging them to leave the game.
You are more than welcome to have your own opinion about the direction of the game. I am sure there is not a game out there that did not cause people to leave because of change the company has made. However, the difference here is that it is for now the same game. The Dust Warfare rules are the same rules they have always been. A ruleset you championed as one of the best tabletop games out there. So the fact that you now say it is no good, coincidentally after an open beta for which you stated Battlefront was not as open to your feedback as FFG was, seems to indicate your issue is not so much with the game being marginalized, but that the new company didn't value your input as much as the old one did. Hard to claim they aren't doing anything for the game when they have open betas, listen and respond to community feedback on the forums and make official statement on there plans for the game, and preview releases for the community so they know what is coming in the future!
If there is any negativity from me, it is because you are presenting a very different version of the community and company than what it actually is. I'm not dragging your name through the mud, I'm just drawing conclusions of your motives based on your own statements. I'm not discounting what your site and articles did to promote Warfare. What I am having a hard time believing is that your doubts about the future of the game are based on a genuine belief the game is headed in a bad direction, and more that is is just headed in a direction you don't like.
All that being said, I'm sorry if my comments came across as personal attacks, I'm really not trying to make this a personal thing. I just strongly disagree with your assessment of where things are headed. You are of course entitled to your opinion, so I suppose we should just leave it at that.
Pael wrote: Kinda getting back on track. Dust has always been a waiting game. It takes a bit longer but once releases come out they come in a massive flood. It has been a bit of a longer stretch lately with not as much released but that could be due to BF taking over.
One thing I don't quite understand is the lack of the newer factions. This is going to hurt Dust more than anything. People are only going to wait so long for rumored armies. I know a handful of guys who passed on Dust because they got tired of waiting for the alien faction talked about from the beginning of AEG days.
Variety will bring in more players than rules will any day.
Well they have stated they plan to release a new faction each year and will have 5-6 factions total. Don't get me wrong, I agree they need more factions. The Japanese are coming this year, and they've previewed concept art for one of the characters. I will be starting a Japanese army as soon as they are available. Unfortunately, The Vril (aliens) aren't scheduled for release until 2015 from what they've said. They also talked about an Indian faction after that, but that is not official, just an idea they were considering.
A friend of mine went to Gencon last year and spoke directly with Paolo Parente who told him Japan in early 2014, Vril in early 2015. Most of those rumors above have panned out, just a few months later than originally planned I guess. I'm sure this is because everything was delayed a few month with the switch from FFG to BF, so I would guess we will see the Japanese after Operation Babylon, which is right around the corner. Wouldn't be surprised to seen the Japanese showcased at Gencon this year.
Andrew Haught wrote:We are supporting warfare, in our minds there are two games, tactics and warfare. There will be two ways to play tactics because it is as simple as swapping squares for measurements for those who want to play tactics on a war-gaming table.
Pretty cut and dry answer on the matter.
I agree that it is pretty cut and dry in your quote and post but I don't think I'm coming to the same conclusion judging from the overall opinion of your post. Taking a board game and just assigning inches to it based on the tiles doesn't make it a good wargame. The bolded part of the post above (obviously taken in exclusion but I don't think out of context) is quite worrisome. Again, my experience with this system is limited to watching a demo but in general what makes a good board game doesn't translate well over to making a good wargame. I don't think that was the point you were trying to drive home though.
Ummm... I sure the point was poeple saw the part you qouted, and complete missed the part Tactic and Warfare are stay different rules set. But, like Battletech you can play the board game (Tactics) with or without the board, as like Battletech they giving you rule to do that.
em_en_oh_pee wrote: And for the record, this is one of the reasons I left that community. See how much was negativity has been attached to me by a single poster? All I said was I warned against Warfare because it has an uncertain future per the words of the game's creator (Paolo). It was recorded in an interview at the Dust World Expo, I believe, that he said for the health of the game (Tactics), he would be working to fold Warfare into Tactics. That doesn't bode well for a game already relegated to "that other game" by BF and Dust Studio. Nothing I am "spreading" is "misinformation" - it is news and rumors, which seem appropriately placed on this thread in this board, wouldn't you say?
On an aside, I ran a big website with weekly multi-thousand word articles on the game, lists, reviews, rules, etc. I did fan-fic, as well as weekly Dust-related gaming gallery images. I did custom unit rules, had game-aids and a forum that was a pretty good place and even started making video reviews before the BF switch. I did all of this and more for Warfare. That I am just a mad rage-quitter is a stretch, since I spent something like 10+ hours a week, sometimes up to 20, on the website (and associated websites) promoting Dust Warfare. I only left the game when the community became too negative and the game looked to be further and further marginalized by its creators and designers. Funny how fast people forget all the good Dust-War did for Warfare.
Please, Starfarer, do quit putting words into my mouth and attaching my name to claims you are making as though I am some ringleader of negativity. That little pissy tirade from Paolo came at least a month after I quit wholesale and abandoned all Dust-related websites. I can't imagine I am the only one with some complaints as to the direction of the game(s).
So much for that "I'm not trying to pick a fight or start drama here" claim - hard to do that when you basically drag my name through the mud.
You have made numerous unfounded claims in this thread and backed it up with no sources or links to these quotes. Please link the Paolo interview where he said any of that. If it is just News and Rumors, then you are advising people to "run from DW as fast as you can" based on rumors, despite direct statements from Battlefront that contradict what you are claiming. I heard 40k 7th edition is coming, better quit now cause things might change! That is essentially what you are telling people. You are spreading FUD(fear, uncertainty, doubt) because of your personal issues with Dust and Battlefront. In my mind you are misinforming people based on unsubstantiated rumors and encouraging them to leave the game.
You are more than welcome to have your own opinion about the direction of the game. I am sure there is not a game out there that did not cause people to leave because of change the company has made. However, the difference here is that it is for now the same game. The Dust Warfare rules are the same rules they have always been. A ruleset you championed as one of the best tabletop games out there. So the fact that you now say it is no good, coincidentally after an open beta for which you stated Battlefront was not as open to your feedback as FFG was, seems to indicate your issue is not so much with the game being marginalized, but that the new company didn't value your input as much as the old one did. Hard to claim they aren't doing anything for the game when they have open betas, listen and respond to community feedback on the forums and make official statement on there plans for the game, and preview releases for the community so they know what is coming in the future!
If there is any negativity from me, it is because you are presenting a very different version of the community and company than what it actually is. I'm not dragging your name through the mud, I'm just drawing conclusions of your motives based on your own statements. I'm not discounting what your site and articles did to promote Warfare. What I am having a hard time believing is that your doubts about the future of the game are based on a genuine belief the game is headed in a bad direction, and more that is is just headed in a direction you don't like.
All that being said, I'm sorry if my comments came across as personal attacks, I'm really not trying to make this a personal thing. I just strongly disagree with your assessment of where things are headed. You are of course entitled to your opinion, so I suppose we should just leave it at that.
You infer incorrectly as to my motives. I truly think the game is going to get phased out, as well as my dislike of the direction it was heading. The other stuff just made it a no-brainer for me to leave. I have a finite hobby budget an can't afford to stay in games that don't look promising. I have my 40k and Warmahordes stuff I would rather expand than continue down a road towards a "gridless Tactics" as my only future avenue for playing what was once Warfare. I feel that is the inevitable course and I do not like that one bit, because it basically cuts out the meat of what I liked about the Warfare rules in the first place.
All I am doing is presenting the community as I and others have seen it. I personally have watched people sell their Dust collections due to the actions of the DDI, for instance. As well as plenty who just couldn't take the silent waiting we did for months between the FFG / BF change. As well as those who saw how BF was doing it and chose to leave then.
And sorry, it was Phil Yates, not Paolo who said the following about possible gridless Tactics:
Q: Could you please explain the reasoning behind the changes from the Original Dust Tactics Rules with cover, cover saves, and the distinction between soft cover and hard cover, to the New Dust Tactics Rules that makes all cover save like hard cover and Infantry in the open having an automatic soft cover save?
A: One of the things in the new rulebook is the rules to play Dust Tactics on a wargames table. When testing this, we found the lethality of the old Dust did not make for a good game, so we added Infantry Saves. When we came back to doing the Dust Tactics rules, we had a look at what bringing the Infantry Saves to Dust would do for the game and liked the result. Having brought in Infantry Saves, it made sense to simplify Cover Saves down to one type of cover rather than two. Again, on trying this, we felt it improved the game, so went with it.
This has been interpreted as a move away from Warfare and towards a homogeneous system that is Tactics & Gridless Tactics (and is from the DDI site, for reference).
Here is another quote, but this one from Paolo:
l must also say that the discrepancies between DW and DT seriously bother me, since they make my universe inconsistent . Why a weapon can be powerful in DT and the same weapon is kind of useless in DW?? etc.... For the future of my company and my universe l truly believe that one common rule and one type of card for both grid and tabletop players is the best. And l am thankful to the kind people at Battlefront who make this possible. Obviously we all expect for the gridless rules to be deeper and more complete, and this is what l promise you
And that is from the Dust Facebook group. So is this (right below the prior comment and in reply to asking about the use of Warfare cards for Tactics):
Warfare for most aspects is a great game and many amongst you want to keep playing no matter what.
No matter what? Uh-oh.
So, I fully expect Warfare to be slowly phased out instead of ever seeing a 2.0 happen. That the rules are expected and that he thanks Battlefront in the first quote. It is hard for me to see a future with Warfare in it.
Anyhow, how is that? I backed up my claims with some quotes for you.
So you quit the game based on inference took from some quotes saying weapons should work the same in both games, but flat out ignore the ones that say Tactics and Warfare are to remain separate games. Seems reasonable.
Anyway, going off what we have proof of, Tactics and Warfare are moving to completely different point systems on their new cards. If they were merging the games it seems unlikely they would make the points system less like one another. Then again this is the same logic that new cards releases for a game that gives the Warfare players the equal support they were asking also somehow means they are not supporting it.
So you quit the game based on inference took from some quotes saying weapons should work the same in both games, but flat out ignore the ones that say Tactics and Warfare are to remain separate games. Seems reasonable.
Anyway, going off what we have proof of, Tactics and Warfare are moving to completely different point systems on their new cards. If they were merging the games it seems unlikely they would make the points system less like one another. Then again this is the same logic that new cards releases for a game that gives the Warfare players the equal support they were asking also somehow means they are not supporting it.
No, I quit for a lot of reasons. Not sure you read the quote, but those pretty much make it clear Warfare will, at some point, be folded into Tactics (to some degree). Printing some Warfare cards now is cheap and easy way to keep people playing until then. I just won't be holding my breath for a Warfare 2.0 ever, nor do I have much faith in the direction the game is going. Feel free to stick it out, just don't be shocked if it goes the way of AT-43.
For those like me that are reading this and a bit unfamiliar with the rules, Beasts of War put up a Tactics intro demo video just a few days ago that you can check out (I'm watching right now on my TV).
I will say this BF seems faster and tighter on their announcements of new items and when those new items actually ship than FFG ever was. Now if that is due to them not announcing until their production is closer to completion or if they just have a better logistical system and understanding of that system is the question.
I was actually fearful it would begin to take longer since they are based out of Australia.
Pael wrote: I will say this BF seems faster and tighter on their announcements of new items and when those new items actually ship than FFG ever was. Now if that is due to them not announcing until their production is closer to completion or if they just have a better logistical system and understanding of that system is the question.
I was actually fearful it would begin to take longer since they are based out of Australia.
Pael wrote: I will say this BF seems faster and tighter on their announcements of new items and when those new items actually ship than FFG ever was. Now if that is due to them not announcing until their production is closer to completion or if they just have a better logistical system and understanding of that system is the question.
I was actually fearful it would begin to take longer since they are based out of Australia.
Why? That means they are closer to China.
Lol, the difference between the time it takes to send an electronic signal to Australia versus the midwest US is a few seconds. It's not like they're sending the news via junk boat courier from China.
Pael wrote: I will say this BF seems faster and tighter on their announcements of new items and when those new items actually ship than FFG ever was. Now if that is due to them not announcing until their production is closer to completion or if they just have a better logistical system and understanding of that system is the question.
I was actually fearful it would begin to take longer since they are based out of Australia.
As somebody who spent almost a decade doing public relations I feel that communication is the biggest failing these companies (Dust/Battlefront) have right now with respect to these games.
Paolo has a tendency to drop bits of information here and there without a thought to how this will play within the community. I'm not saying that things should be "spun" necessarily, but he might want to avoid adding new bits of information without considering first how it might be perceived within the community. Then, if there's a problem with the message you need to jump in and correct it.
For example, this quote:
l must also say that the discrepancies between DW and DT seriously bother me, since they make my universe inconsistent . Why a weapon can be powerful in DT and the same weapon is kind of useless in DW?? etc.... For the future of my company and my universe l truly believe that one common rule and one type of card for both grid and tabletop players is the best. And l am thankful to the kind people at Battlefront who make this possible. Obviously we all expect for the gridless rules to be deeper and more complete, and this is what l promise you
Can be certainly construed to mean that Dust Warfare will go away with Gridless Dust Tactics taking its place. If that's going to be the case then they should just come out and say so, own it, and convince Dust Warfare players to give it a chance before they rage quite the universe entirely. If that's NOT the case, then they should absolutely say THAT and reassure Dust Warfare players. If they haven't made a decision on this either way then maybe he should have just kept his mouth shut on the subject entirely.
For myself, I started with Dust Tactics on Day 1 of release, hated it and got rid of my original boxed set. Warfare lured me back in to the universe, but it also got me to give another look at Tactics - which I decided I liked for different reasons. On the other hand, trying to play BOTH games has always been a confusing affair for exactly the reasons that Paolo states. Things work differently and those differences are sometimes jarring. Trying to figure out which rules go with which game can be a pain to hold in your head.
Looks like some information has slipped about the possible direction Warfare could be going. Personally I wish they would just pull the trigger already. Warfare will get a new reincarnation once the FFG stock is sold out. I have always wanted the rules to be more universal across both games and honestly can see how the design of most of the factions plays better in tactics, but when they transitioned it to Warfare they completely lost the vision. For example the Axis S3 units in Tactics have an invulnerable type save, yet in Warfare they just have a measly extra point of armor that is negated quite easily.
I hope beyond hope that BF plans on bringing the two games closer together and that they will end this nonsense of Tactics and Warfare being two completely different games. One should be an easier faster 'board game' and the other a larger scale in depth 'table top' game.
So, as I haven't kept up, what is the current state of at least Dust Tactics rules?
Last I heard they were re-doing the rules to some degree, and an all encompassing rule book was coming. Did this come to pass, or is it an upcoming change?
I know Warfare is in a different, more undetermined place right now, but I wouldn't object to getting a refined version of Tactics back on the table.
Also, are there new/revised stat-cards available? Is it aesthetic, or have units been rebalanced?
Well, but there is still the matter of Paolo disliking or being indifferent to it. I think if/when we see it again it will be such a wildly different animal that we'll have to all look at it as a new game entirely.
So, Miniatures Market, etc... is pre-selling the, presumably new card decks I mentioned... but no new rule-book for Tactics? Am I wrong in thinking there was supposed to be a collected "big" rule book?
It has rules for both Dust Tactics and Dust Tactics Battlefield(gridless tactics).
Edit: It looks like the Dust Tactics Battlefield rules are not included in the .pdf. I guess we will have to wait a few weeks for the physical rulebook for those.
Honestly, if the compromise I need to make as a fan of the models and both games, is one half-measure game between Tactics and Warfare.... i'll take it.
Fingers crossed for good rules that keep the simplicity of Tactics, but offer table-top depth regarding cover/terrain/movement.
Oh, and for the love of God, the one thing i'd ditch from Warfare was the rigid FoC. I own amazing amounts of Dust models, and they have point values... don't make me take them in such confined permutations.
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: Honestly, if the compromise I need to make as a fan of the models and both games, is one half-measure game between Tactics and Warfare.... i'll take it.
Fingers crossed for good rules that keep the simplicity of Tactics, but offer table-top depth regarding cover/terrain/movement.
Oh, and for the love of God, the one thing i'd ditch from Warfare was the rigid FoC. I own amazing amounts of Dust models, and they have point values... don't make me take them in such confined permutations.
I am stunned at the new points cost for the units. 9 points for the Fakyeli!!!!! Awesome!!!! This is going to allow for bigger games as well as bringing the armies closer together for AP. I can't wait to see what the rest of the V2 cards look like!! Way to go BF and sorry about Warfare but I am jumping ship!!!!
Pael wrote: I am stunned at the new points cost for the units. 9 points for the Fakyeli!!!!! Awesome!!!! This is going to allow for bigger games as well as bringing the armies closer together for AP. I can't wait to see what the rest of the V2 cards look like!! Way to go BF and sorry about Warfare but I am jumping ship!!!!
To be fair, the average point cost for a "large" game is also being reduced to 100pts, so the cost deductions aren't as dramatic as it would seem at a glance.
Pael wrote: Way to go BF and sorry about Warfare but I am jumping ship!!!!
What happened?
It looks as though Warfare has been 'not' replaced by Tactics: Battlefield. By 'not' I mean that they have. I think they are going to give it some support but honestly BF is probably banking that Warfare's fan-base will switch over to Battlefield.
It is my guess that this is the real reason Dust switched over to BF in the first place. Paolo has made some comments about the difference in Tactics and Warfare. Then BF come out with a 'better' aligned game system, which was how Dust was first described to me and initially marketed before Warfare was actually released. Keep in mind though this is all conjecture by me.
And here is the quote I was reffering too, thank you Dullspork from a few posts ago. It seems like what we were assuming was what was actually going on behind the scenes.
l must also say that the discrepancies between DW and DT seriously bother me, since they make my universe inconsistent . Why a weapon can be powerful in DT and the same weapon is kind of useless in DW?? etc.... For the future of my company and my universe l truly believe that one common rule and one type of card for both grid and tabletop players is the best. And l am thankful to the kind people at Battlefront who make this possible. Obviously we all expect for the gridless rules to be deeper and more complete, and this is what l promise you
Can be certainly construed to mean that Dust Warfare will go away with Gridless Dust Tactics taking its place. If that's going to be the case then they should just come out and say so, own it, and convince Dust Warfare players to give it a chance before they rage quite the universe entirely. If that's NOT the case, then they should absolutely say THAT and reassure Dust Warfare players. If they haven't made a decision on this either way then maybe he should have just kept his mouth shut on the subject entirely.
For myself, I started with Dust Tactics on Day 1 of release, hated it and got rid of my original boxed set. Warfare lured me back in to the universe, but it also got me to give another look at Tactics - which I decided I liked for different reasons. On the other hand, trying to play BOTH games has always been a confusing affair for exactly the reasons that Paolo states. Things work differently and those differences are sometimes jarring. Trying to figure out which rules go with which game can be a pain to hold in your head.
Ah, so I feel a bit vindicated in my opinions on the direction of Warfare. I was saying that the "support" for Warfare would taper off to the bare minimum to appease players and the emphasis on Tactics would be paramount. Had no idea they would do this Battlefield thing, but that makes it pretty clear. Hard to blame them - Paolo did not like Warfare, didn't want to support it, and must be overjoyed with this pseudo-replacement.
A shame, though. Warfare's rules were always really solid. Just needed some small tweaks. I wish that it would be opened up as an open format wargame so people can use the rules with other miniatures. That would be amazing.
I am actually excited for the changes. It seems those tweaks will happen in Battlefield instead of Warfare.
On a side note Andrew over on the Dust Forums did reiterate that Warfare will continually be supported. He was very eloquent so maybe they have some more stuff up their sleeves over at BF. Andrew did state that once Babylon rolls out we would see some action for Warfare.
Andrew Haught recently posted this on the Dust Forums. Warfare is not going anywhere according to him.
Hey guys I see some of the discussion here is a bit hot, just keep it fun guys.
In the end Dust is a game, we offer three different ways to play the game which I see as a bonus. Battlefield is really just an expansion of Tactics, in a way they are the same game with two different boards styles. So in the end we still have just the 2 core games, Tactics and Warfare.
Both are great games in there own way and we plan to support them both. Right now it does seem like there is a lot of tactics news because the rulebook is the news in the world of dust right now, but around the corner will be the next operation and we will be selling models with both Tactics and Warfare cards.
Players will have preferences for their favorite way to play dust, sure, but its not a "I have to choose between Warfare or Tactics: Battlefield" it is more like I have an army, what format do I want to test it out with first.
At their core both games are different, tactics with its alternating turns and warfare with its dynamic command phase and turns. Each game has unique elements that make their game awesome. I for one love both formats of the game and choose to play both warfare and Tactics:Battlefield and plan my armies to be able to play in both games.
You can choose to only play one format of dust and if that what you like then go for it. The object of a game is to have fun, so play the game that is the most fun for you to play.
But don't feel like you have to limit yourself to one game if you like both.
One of the cool aspects of the Dust game is you can buy one awesome looking model and you can play it in two different games and in three different ways.
Wow guys, I guess sarcasm really doesn't transmit well in a written form. I LOVE Dust and especially Dust Warfare. I was responding to em en oh pee's gloom and doom in his comment. sheesh.
)
...
