MasterSlowPoke wrote:Why do some of you think that the vehicles don't need a crew? Have they ever shown the Necrons to have a automated vehicles?
The Monolith, and the pylon is an uncrewed semi-sentient weapon.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Zweischneid wrote:
Deathly Angel wrote:
Personally, I really like the barge, apart from the crew I guess , though I don't see why that can't be fixed by cutting off the legs and attaching the lower spine to the vehicle like destroyers, or removing them altogether.
Because that would be the most stupid thing ever? What happens when a Necron fixed to a vehicle phases out? Is a new Necron quickly cut-apart in mid-battle and locked in? Does the entire vehicle phase out? Is it only half-functional from then until eternity? What happens to a half-Necron once he appears on the other side of the "phase-out"?
Seriously, half-Necrons on multi-necron-vehicles are the dummest thing ever. Don't do it.
It works just like Phase Out always has, everything phases out Necron ruled and non- Necron ruled alike.
gorgon wrote:1) Because they've always kinda been TK in space, at least a little.
Necrons pre-date Tomb Kings.
Although they don't predate mummies, in GW games or in the real world.
Another point I should have made is that if Necrons get more sentience and individuality in the new fluff as rumored, it follows to make the models more ornate and evoke their former civilization.
Deathly Angel wrote:
Personally, I really like the barge, apart from the crew I guess , though I don't see why that can't be fixed by cutting off the legs and attaching the lower spine to the vehicle like destroyers, or removing them altogether.
Because that would be the most stupid thing ever? What happens when a Necron fixed to a vehicle phases out? Is a new Necron quickly cut-apart in mid-battle and locked in? Does the entire vehicle phase out? Is it only half-functional from then until eternity? What happens to a half-Necron once he appears on the other side of the "phase-out"?
Seriously, half-Necrons on multi-necron-vehicles are the dummest thing ever. Don't do it.
Since apparently phase-out is gone, your argument is invalid.
However, the necrons piloting do look silly.
H.B.M.C. wrote:
Not if they're badly written. And the Sanguinor and Draigo do kinda do the two things you mentioned.
How so? Neither the Sanguinor nor Draigo make a ret-con appereance in any established fluff like the Swarmlord does. Whatever justification there may or may not by for Swarmy in some RPG-book, his presentation in the Nid-Book still rips 20 years of established Hive-Fleet War Fluff a new one. Neither the Sanguinor nor Draigo do that.
Second, both Sanguinor and Draigo perfectly epitomize critical aspects of their respective army; in the case of the Sanguinor the silver-line that is a hope of salvation for a Chapter plunging into dark doom. For Draigo, the ultimate hero's dilemma to either remain pure at the price of ineffectiveness, or change the course of history at the price of your own corruption. Both a brilliant archetypes that both fantastically augment and highlight the character of their respective armies.
The Swarmlord (Deathwatch story non-withstanding) on the other hand is a violation of the same army it sits in (as is the Decapitator of the Dark Eldar by the way, scheming Necron-style to end all life, rather than indulge in the Dark Eldars normal perverse decadence on the edge of their own doom). The Deathwatch story, while making the Swarmlord story tolerable, also painfully illustrates how bad the first pitch was in the actual Codex.
NecronLord3 wrote:
It works just like Phase Out always has, everything phases out Necron ruled and non- Necron ruled alike.
So by shooting one random, vehicle-attached pilot, you can force-phase-out the army commander/overlord who is with him on the Barge, and with him the strategic heart of an entire battle-force. Doesn't sound like terrible, ancient intellect too me. Even Grot's would fall over laughing on that one. No thanks. Keep the pilot... in the "logic-department", it's the only thing that even remotely makes any sense.
*I spent almost an hour typing a greatly detailed review of the infantry models but accidentally clicked on a link in my favourites bar and lost EVERYTHING. *
To summarise what I *would* have posted on the infantry:
The named Lords could be better themed by only being known by their titles, rather than individual names, I have no issues regarding the amount of bling, I love the Stormlord's pose, details and collar. Also actually like his/its crest. I'm not a fan of the Infinite's cowl, and don't like his too static pose.
First Necron Lord looks better than second for the same reasons as the Stormlord above, maybe a bit less bling would be nice as they rival the named lords in ornateness . The second Lord looks too static, and the crests can be trimmed off easily.
Love the Deathmarks, maybe they are so liked as opposed to the rest of the range is because they convey the menacong Terminator theme we no and love and are familiar with. Similar poses suggest that they will be Finecast.
Silly crests can be cut off the Lychguard, look pretty cool with warscythes. Insread of using a shield, perhaps some conversion can be made for forcefields and even represent them in the paintjob. Aesthetically reminiscent of the Pariahs, perhaps they could be the rumoured replacement rather than Crypteks?
Triarch Praetorians look awesome, love the ornament/device on backs, prefer Rods of the Covenant to Particle Blasters & Void Blades aesthetically. Perhaps Partical Blasters can be converted to be an extension of the actual arm.
Immortals convey the menacing theme well as do the Deathmarks. Their relative poularity is probably the same reason as stated for the Deathmarks.
The flayed ones are an interesting case. They are a new sculpt I assume will be replacing the old models, but do not appear as appealing. Firstly, their poses are too dynamic. hey should be shambling towards their victims as if half asleep. The flayed skin does not match that of the old models, And I would have liked their heads to be covered in flesh as well. The bottom right model appears almost identical to one of the VC Crypt Ghoul torsos, running forward, hunched over with a body attached to its back.
The reason that they are not covered in blood I would presume is due to the children GW tries to market to. If a parent saw these robots covered in blood and gore would they want to let their son into this violent and maturely themed hobby?
Finally, I'd like to point out that the new Necrons, at second glance, are not as similar to Tomb Kings as one might believe. A few conversions on each model could easily shift the entire army from the Egyptian theme back to the old Terminator look that so many people love. It is simply a matter of trimming off the crests and removing some of the ornamentation . A reasonable ability to work with greenstuff will be needed to do this for some of the details, but otherwise it all is very simple.
These Necrons would look more menacing if it wasn't for the bright colour scheme that the 'Eavy Metal team gave them. If they were painted in a darker metal tone, there probably wouldn't be so much criticism for the new range.
NecronLord3 wrote:
It works just like Phase Out always has, everything phases out Necron ruled and non- Necron ruled alike.
So by shooting one random, vehicle-attached pilot, you can force-phase-out the army commander/overlord who is with him on the Barge, and with him the strategic heart of an entire battle-force. Doesn't sound like terrible, ancient intellect too me. Even Grot's would fall over laughing on that one. No thanks. Keep the pilot... in the "logic-department", it's the only thing that even remotely makes any sense.
WTF are you talking about? First of phase out as we knew it is gone. Second, if it did work as it used to, you kill 75% of the Necron models, not 1.
Deathly Angel wrote:
Personally, I really like the barge, apart from the crew I guess , though I don't see why that can't be fixed by cutting off the legs and attaching the lower spine to the vehicle like destroyers, or removing them altogether.
Because that would be the most stupid thing ever? What happens when a Necron fixed to a vehicle phases out? Is a new Necron quickly cut-apart in mid-battle and locked in? Does the entire vehicle phase out? Is it only half-functional from then until eternity? What happens to a half-Necron once he appears on the other side of the "phase-out"?
Seriously, half-Necrons on multi-necron-vehicles are the dummest thing ever. Don't do it.
Since apparently phase-out is gone, your argument is invalid.
However, the necrons piloting do look silly.
It looks very very silly. The idea the a machine needs to interface using clunky human like controls with another machine is just plain stupid really.
Heck the technology of today with wireless communication now the default makes the idea completely redundant thats not to mention that GW did semi sentient vehicles in the last dex and with the destroyer body already used to get rid of the pilot problem these feel like more than a backwards step.
Basically there only needs to be one "pilot" and that is the vehicle itself.
I could see the problem with the two "crew" but the simple fix is to have a single central driver of a vehicles be attached to the craft like with the destroyer as already mentioned.
It doesn't look like an easy conversion for the command barge tbh maybe get rid of the crew and attach the driver wast down as an extension of the 'tail'.
The Cornerfag~ wrote:I don't think pilots fit with the old fluff.
It's really important to define old fluff here.
This is by far older than the plastic Destroyers that exist now. What you see is some kind of craft that is piloted by a Necron soldier. Interface? Joystick.
Deathly Angel wrote:
Personally, I really like the barge, apart from the crew I guess , though I don't see why that can't be fixed by cutting off the legs and attaching the lower spine to the vehicle like destroyers, or removing them altogether.
Because that would be the most stupid thing ever? What happens when a Necron fixed to a vehicle phases out? Is a new Necron quickly cut-apart in mid-battle and locked in? Does the entire vehicle phase out? Is it only half-functional from then until eternity? What happens to a half-Necron once he appears on the other side of the "phase-out"?
Seriously, half-Necrons on multi-necron-vehicles are the dummest thing ever. Don't do it.
Since apparently phase-out is gone, your argument is invalid.
However, the necrons piloting do look silly.
It looks very very silly. The idea the a machine needs to interface using clunky human like controls with another machine is just plain stupid really.
Heck the technology of today with wireless communication now the default makes the idea completely redundant thats not to mention that GW did semi sentient vehicles in the last dex and with the destroyer body already used to get rid of the pilot problem these feel like more than a backwards step.
Basically there only needs to be one "pilot" and that is the vehicle itself.
I could see the problem with the two "crew" but the simple fix is to have a single central driver of a vehicles be attached to the craft like with the destroyer as already mentioned.
It doesn't look like an easy conversion for the command barge tbh maybe get rid of the crew and attach the driver wast down as an extension of the 'tail'.
Have you ever seen Data input something on the computer in ST: TNG? So much for "clunky".
Anyway, it's probably easier to program a robot that is overlapped with a vestigial humanoid skillset to pilot a vehicle than it is to build a magical vehicle piloting program from the ground up. People are making a lot of assumptions about how easy it would be for the Necrons to do the latter, when we really don't have much to indicate that that is truly the case.
The barges do not need pilots. I can see the command barge using the lord however. The annihilation barge would look better without the two pilots, or if their bodies were more incorporated into the machine. Also, one thing we might have forgotten, These vehicles could be necrontyr vehicles, made to be piloted by necrontyr. We will just have to see the fluff behind them.
I do understand the arks carrying units though. Monoliths are slow as heck and probably take tons of resources, the skimmers however can probably move at least 5x faster so moving some units a couple of klicks, the arks make way more sense than monoliths.
Also, I am happy the green rods are gone, the textures on the model look way better than the simple round cylinder. If they would have remoulded the green rods into something more 'spiky' and 'elecrical' that would have sweet but the simple green rods were boring.
This looks like a great model, but with a bit of a silly concept. As others have already stated, Necrons would never use conventional transports instead of beaming in. It’s inspired by the galleys of antiquity, but does it really have to be a carbon copy? I do like the ‘drummer’ at the top, but would convert it to be part of the hull. I feel that the 'rowers' really don't fit in. Whether they are passengers or crew is irrrelavent to the fact that the vehicle itself should have the intelligence to operate its own weapons. I really hope that these won't be a mandatory choice for plausible lists just because the idea is so silly...
Doomsday Ark
This looks spectacular though. I love the look of it, even if it is the Ghost Ark upside down. Altruizine's idea of flipping the endcaps on page 4 is perfect. I'm not so much a fan of the beakhead at the front, though it can always be removed.
I may not be a fan of the whole new transport idea but they do remind me of the old Egyptian naval vessels and that IMO fits perfectly well with the overall feel they were trying to get.
I think the reason I like the Ghost Ark/Doomsday Machine is that both fit the Necrons' visual style well and look like vehicles.
Also, totally gonna replace/cut-off the head-dresses.
Zweischneid wrote:So by shooting one random, vehicle-attached pilot, you can force-phase-out the army commander/overlord who is with him on the Barge, and with him the strategic heart of an entire battle-force. Doesn't sound like terrible, ancient intellect too me. Even Grot's would fall over laughing on that one. No thanks. Keep the pilot... in the "logic-department", it's the only thing that even remotely makes any sense.
Learn how phase out works.
Currently, if the pilot is shot, there's no pilot for the barge. If the pilot is attached to the barge, there's no pilot for the barge. Either way, the barge won't phase out until the rest of the army phases out, so it will just be downed if either sort of pilot is shot. Giving the barge its own AI would fix the problem, but for some reason Games Workshop thought a pilot was more fitting.
Altruizine wrote:Anyway, it's probably easier to program a robot that is overlapped with a vestigial humanoid skillset to pilot a vehicle than it is to build a magical vehicle piloting program from the ground up. People are making a lot of assumptions about how easy it would be for the Necrons to do the latter, when we really don't have much to indicate that that is truly the case.
The Monolith, Tomb Spyder, Tombstalker, and Scarabs have their own AI. In particular, Scarabs having their own AI would suggest an ornate looking vessel like the Ghost Ark would have it too.
The Cornerfag~ wrote:I don't think pilots fit with the old fluff.
It's really important to define old fluff here.
This is by far older than the plastic Destroyers that exist now. What you see is some kind of craft that is piloted by a Necron soldier. Interface? Joystick.
Several people have shown this old model as proof of something... that Necron used to pilot craft? Firstly, the model is dumb. It was dumb then, and it's dumb now. Also, Necron look nothing like that now, so is this 'look' of the Necrons a canon one? If we are expected to believe that the necrons are unchanged in form for the last millions of years, then how is anything about the 'look' of the older necrons valid for discussions of current fluff?
Also, what happened to 'they'll be back' and 'beaming out'. Do they still do these or not? I mean, if they don't do them any more, is that a retcon? Is it that they used to do them, and now they don't (for some reason), or is it that the fluff is rewritten and they were never capable of those things?
NecronLord3 wrote:The Monolith, and the pylon is an uncrewed semi-sentient weapon.
How do you know there aren't people in the Monolith?
Howard A Treesong wrote:Several people have shown this old model as proof of something... that Necron used to pilot craft? Firstly, the model is dumb. It was dumb then, and it's dumb now. Also, Necron look nothing like that now, so is this 'look' of the Necrons a canon one? If we are expected to believe that the necrons are unchanged in form for the last millions of years, then how is anything about the 'look' of the older necrons valid for discussions of current fluff?
I think it's a Chaos Android (AKA the inspiration for Necrons).
Howard A Treesong wrote:How do you know there aren't people in the Monolith?
We don't; the old Necron codex doesn't say anything on the matter, so I guess it's really just the Tomb Spyders and Scarabs.
Did no-one consider that these might have been the ships the Necrontyr used BEFORE they became robotic? They all lost a good wodge of their brilliance after transition...
If they had fleets of these things in storage, why not use them?
Howard A Treesong wrote:Several people have shown this old model as proof of something... that Necron used to pilot craft? Firstly, the model is dumb. It was dumb then, and it's dumb now. Also, Necron look nothing like that now, so is this 'look' of the Necrons a canon one? If we are expected to believe that the necrons are unchanged in form for the last millions of years, then how is anything about the 'look' of the older necrons valid for discussions of current fluff?
I think it's a Chaos Android (AKA the inspiration for Necrons).
No that is a true 'Necron' as released under 2nd ed, 'Chaos Androids' only had releases with Space Crusade and Epic.
I have about a dozen of those old Necrons and some scarabs, never had the flier because I thought it was silly. They were awesome in 2nd ed. Really though, the fluff for them then wasn't worker out and nor the style. It's only with the release of the modern army and plastic necrons that they really established the look and the fluff so I don't think holding up examples of these original necrons to make any sort of argument here is fair.
Howard A Treesong wrote:How do you know there aren't people in the Monolith?
We don't; the old Necron codex doesn't say anything on the matter, so I guess it's really just the Tomb Spyders and Scarabs.
Probably because of all the vehicles in 40k it doesn't have a front really (unless you count the wavy door opening which I don't) Also it doesn't apear to have any view slits for the pilots and the guns shoot in 360 degrees suggesting that there really isn't a front.
Howard A Treesong wrote:
Several people have shown this old model as proof of something... that Necron used to pilot craft?
Precisely! The comment I responded to brought up the issue of pilots not fitting the old fluff. I presented him with an old, piloted model.
I agree with you, though. It looks pretty stupid, and I'm not a fan of the extra Necrons on the command barge with their legs dangling down. Other than that, I have no issues with Necrons being transported by "traditional" means (rather than teleportation or that craft can be piloted by one, and the controlled via touch interface.
juraigamer wrote:I only have one thing to say about the leak.
Beasts of war I hope you die in a fire for spamming your name all over the images, and whoring yourself out like this.
And how are they different from those who leaked out rumors and pictures of prototypes in the past? If GW had done the sensible thing and given us a preview of these models in the last WD or at any of the recent Gamesdays, it wouldn't have been left to a website with the awesome people at Beasts of War. I for one, am extremely grateful to these guys!
Howard A Treesong wrote:How do you know there aren't people in the Monolith?
We don't; the old Necron codex doesn't say anything on the matter, so I guess it's really just the Tomb Spyders and Scarabs.
Probably because of all the vehicles in 40k it doesn't have a front really (unless you count the wavy door opening which I don't) Also it doesn't apear to have any view slits for the pilots and the guns shoot in 360 degrees suggesting that there really isn't a front.
They need not be 'pilots' in the traditional sense, they might be like Borg in a cube. The fact that the Monolith doesn't have windows doesn't mean it doesn't have crew.
H.B.M.C. wrote:
Not if they're badly written. And the Sanguinor and Draigo do kinda do the two things you mentioned.
How so? Neither the Sanguinor nor Draigo make a ret-con appereance in any established fluff like the Swarmlord does. Whatever justification there may or may not by for Swarmy in some RPG-book, his presentation in the Nid-Book still rips 20 years of established Hive-Fleet War Fluff a new one. Neither the Sanguinor nor Draigo do that.
Second, both Sanguinor and Draigo perfectly epitomize critical aspects of their respective army; in the case of the Sanguinor the silver-line that is a hope of salvation for a Chapter plunging into dark doom. For Draigo, the ultimate hero's dilemma to either remain pure at the price of ineffectiveness, or change the course of history at the price of your own corruption. Both a brilliant archetypes that both fantastically augment and highlight the character of their respective armies.
The Swarmlord (Deathwatch story non-withstanding) on the other hand is a violation of the same army it sits in (as is the Decapitator of the Dark Eldar by the way, scheming Necron-style to end all life, rather than indulge in the Dark Eldars normal perverse decadence on the edge of their own doom). The Deathwatch story, while making the Swarmlord story tolerable, also painfully illustrates how bad the first pitch was in the actual Codex.
The Sanguinor and Draigo are the most awefull Fluff pieces that ever was created...
One is just an excuse to have a Whats-should-have-been-Deamon-Princes that buffs one mini of the army and inflict a malus on a ennemy mini...,yeah right...
And the other one completly mess with the 35years of established Fluff about Chaos...
The guy just take a walk into the Gods realms and mess around,while it take millions of Psykers sacrified so that the Emperor can bearly stay in the Warp and have to fight for his soul for all of eternety since the last 10k years...,gimme a break...
So be it Swarmlord,Draigo or the Sanguinor,they are full of Crap-Fluff...
If that transport doesn't have some kind of tervigon spawning to it I intend to do some conversion so that it is the first vehicle to actually transport warriors, altho if the capacity is very high I'll only try to fit the 10 real warriors in.
Pretty awesome, will be good to play against them and actually have to ask "What are they and what do they do?". I dislike some of the models, while others are awesome. I honestly dont give a monkey if ships are piloted by AI or by necrons.
Looking forward to the codex, but probably wont buy anything.
Currently, if the pilot is shot, there's no pilot for the barge. If the pilot is attached to the barge, there's no pilot for the barge. Either way, the barge won't phase out until the rest of the army phases out, so it will just be downed if either sort of pilot is shot. Giving the barge its own AI would fix the problem, but for some reason Games Workshop thought a pilot was more fitting.
I think there is a confusion between the current Necron-background on Phase-out and the gaming-rule of Phase-out. The first, is what happens to each and every Necron individually if he is damaged beyond WBB. The second, is a game-rule in the current book that means you lose the game as the entire army retreats.
As people were making complaints about the pilots on the basis of the background, rather than the game rules, I was referring to the first, not the latter. Similarly, the "individual" phase out of each and every Necron as a feature on what happens when they "die" will likely remain in the background, even if the army-wide phase-out as a handicap rule is removed.
Altruizine wrote:Anyway, it's probably easier to program a robot that is overlapped with a vestigial humanoid skillset to pilot a vehicle than it is to build a magical vehicle piloting program from the ground up. People are making a lot of assumptions about how easy it would be for the Necrons to do the latter, when we really don't have much to indicate that that is truly the case.
The Monolith, Tomb Spyder, Tombstalker, and Scarabs have their own AI. In particular, Scarabs having their own AI would suggest an ornate looking vessel like the Ghost Ark would have it too.
Scarabs have an unbelievably simplistic role on the battlefield, so they aren't proof of anything. In fact, you could probably program Scarabs to do what they do with contemporary earth technology (although their flight and weapons systems would not be up to snuff at all).
Tomb Spyders seem to have a pretty simplistic list of automated tasks as well, so I'm not sure they're a good example.
Monoliths and Tombstalkers could serve your point well, but if you go back a page or two there was a debate about whether or not the codex actually says anything about their pilots and/or piloting systems. Neither side of that argument presented indisputable evidence either way, but it was enough to make me want to dig out my 3rd edition codex and see what was what (but I haven't yet).
Edit: I see you have acknowledged this yourself in a subsequent post. I would maintain that Scarabs and Spyders aren't enough to prove the existence of supposedly superior AI. Scarabs just buzz around until they find a hostile signature to attack, and Spyders bumble around waiting to receive a "Medic!" signal and probably only engage in defensive combat. But, like I said, I need to do a codex recap to get an accurate grip on all this. It's been a while, and I'm coasting on earlier impressions.
I keep hearing that the machines that the necrons use have been programmed or that AI is being used. This is not really what I am suggesting. What I am suggesting is that the vehicles nay the entire necron army are machines with a "transplanted" human conscious. Or animal conscious in the case of scarab.
So the proof that this is possible and in the relms of the army is the army itself.
In this instance there is no programming, no need of control in any sense. Though like human society there are still orders and still hierarchy as obvious from the need for necron lords.
ceorron wrote:
I keep hearing that the machines that the necrons use have been programmed or that AI is being used. This is not really what I am suggesting. What I am suggesting is that the vehicles nay the entire necron army are machines with a "transplanted" human conscious. Or animal conscious in the case of scarab.
So the proof that this is possible and in the relms of the army is the army itself.
In this instance there is no programming, no need of control in any sense. Though like human society there are still orders and still hierarchy as obvious from the need for necron lords.
It's probably easier to transplant a humanoid consciousness into a 1:1 metal analogue of the humanoid form (that then utilizes humanoid behaviours to control other devices) than it is to convert a humanoid consciousness into an entirely new form of vehicular consciousness.
If I knocked you out, extracted your brain, and chucked it into a robotic body that had many of the same functions as your old body, you would know exactly how to operate it. Now imagine waking up as a Toyota.
ceorron wrote:
I keep hearing that the machines that the necrons use have been programmed or that AI is being used. This is not really what I am suggesting. What I am suggesting is that the vehicles nay the entire necron army are machines with a "transplanted" human conscious. Or animal conscious in the case of scarab.
So the proof that this is possible and in the relms of the army is the army itself.
In this instance there is no programming, no need of control in any sense. Though like human society there are still orders and still hierarchy as obvious from the need for necron lords.
It's probably easier to transplant a humanoid consciousness into a 1:1 metal analogue of the humanoid form (that then utilizes humanoid behaviours to control other devices) than it is to convert a humanoid consciousness into an entirely new form of vehicular consciousness.
If I knocked you out, extracted your brain, and chucked it into a robotic body that had many of the same functions as your old body, you would know exactly how to operate it. Now imagine waking up as a Toyota.
I'd like to be an Audi if possible that way my accelerator won't jam on.
I have no interest in necrons. These models don't change that. I am, however, glad to see another xeno army getting some more models and an updated codex. While not as impressive as the redo that DE got, this looks to be a more complete update than the nids got.
The new models are looking realy nice (apart from the flayed ones, there was nout wrong with the old ones).
just going to have to wait for the codex to come out now so i can find out what they all do. Should be good for the game though let alone necron players, should hopefully mean we see some different style necron lists.
Ascalam wrote:For those raging on piloted necron devices.
Did no-one consider that these might have been the ships the Necrontyr used BEFORE they became robotic? They all lost a good wodge of their brilliance after transition...
If they had fleets of these things in storage, why not use them?
I'm undecided on the new models yet.
This.
Exactly what I was thinking. Seriously, people need to think more and rage less.
Zweischneid wrote:How so? Neither the Sanguinor nor Draigo make a ret-con appereance in any established fluff like the Swarmlord does. Whatever justification there may or may not by for Swarmy in some RPG-book, his presentation in the Nid-Book still rips 20 years of established Hive-Fleet War Fluff a new one. Neither the Sanguinor nor Draigo do that.
Second, both Sanguinor and Draigo perfectly epitomize critical aspects of their respective army; in the case of the Sanguinor the silver-line that is a hope of salvation for a Chapter plunging into dark doom. For Draigo, the ultimate hero's dilemma to either remain pure at the price of ineffectiveness, or change the course of history at the price of your own corruption. Both a brilliant archetypes that both fantastically augment and highlight the character of their respective armies.
The Swarmlord (Deathwatch story non-withstanding) on the other hand is a violation of the same army it sits in (as is the Decapitator of the Dark Eldar by the way, scheming Necron-style to end all life, rather than indulge in the Dark Eldars normal perverse decadence on the edge of their own doom). The Deathwatch story, while making the Swarmlord story tolerable, also painfully illustrates how bad the first pitch was in the actual Codex.
Just because something theoretically has a good concept doesn't mean the actual writing is good, Ward took what could be a neato concept and killed it with bad writing, IMO.
Also, "change the course of history at the price of your own corruption"? Where, from the text, did you get that interpretation from?
Don't really have a problem with Necrons piloting vehicles though, personally. I think aesthetically it could maybe of been done better, but meh.
I'm fairly certain the Jes Goodwin's sketches, one of which is very close to the final Ark predate the last few seasons of BSG. I could be wrong though.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
andy_123_p wrote:Ii think they look alot like the interior of the trade federation ships from the phantom menace.
The other thing ive noticed with the new models is a distinct lack of green rods?!!!!!!
Does anyone know are they doing away with the rods?
It seems likely. I can't imagine them just keeping them on the Warriors and Destroyers.
andy_123_p wrote:The other thing ive noticed with the new models is a distinct lack of green rods?!!!!!!
Does anyone know are they doing away with the rods?
I'm guessing that the painter just painted over them for a more uniform and menacing look. I felt that the rods and everything else in clear green plastic just looked weird. Too much contrast between painted and clear tinted plastic.
EDIT: Painting over the rods make it look a lot more like some of the artwork. I think it's supposed to look like a plasma arc rather than a cylinder.
First, Thanks to Kroothawk for compiling the various info into one nice neat post.
Second, I like the way the army is shaping up! I like the fact that there is some diversity amongst the models and I personally like the pieces of flair that adorns many of the new models, making a relatively boring looking army, look better now on the tabletop!
I just wish I could afford to buy them...sad face...
I see what you mean but at the same time i find that once GW find a type of painting that they like they paint EVERYTHING like it.
At least with the rods there was something truly unique with the Necrons they had there own unique "thing" whereas alot of other armies may seem very similar in the way weapons or armor is painted.
Sir Harry Flashman, VC wrote:This is awesome! Take my money GW, I demand it.
Anyone reckon this was an actual leak by the GW marketing guys?
I would suggest the printing company would be in a spot of bother if it's not...
Why would they "leak" it to BoW when they could showcase them on their own website...the website that is also a store...that they presumably want people visiting?
People at the printing company would have access to pdfs with higher quality pictures, these look to have photographed from a copy of the magazine. It could come from any time after leaving the print shop floor.
1hadhq wrote:Crons as boxes of 5 minis ... the new trend? The ones without "plastic" are f..cast then.
5 is the new 10! Don't worry. It's not a complete new trend. They're still priced like they were 10 models.
Wait... that's not a good thing...
5 models and lots of bitz are still 4€ cheaper than 10 models and few bitz. Its the small things that count....
GW should keep that trend when they redo horde armies. 5 ork boyz, the greenskin would love it. Once, options were rare, now bodies are rare.
Are basic necron warriors compatible with parts of the new line? If so, bodies + new left over bitz = profit.
Tell you what. I'll remember you and what you said.
When Necron comes out this is what i want you to do, and this is what i'll do for you.
We are going to purchase 20 boxes of necron warrior and immortals.
I'll give you all the bits, and in return i just want the body, head, arm, legs, and weapons.
Im going to give you all the bling and bits that you sought after.
Everyone is happy with this yes?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Kanluwen wrote:
JOHIRA wrote:
Kanluwen wrote:I have to disagree with you on the headdresses, Johira.
People seem to forget that at one point...Necrons did have headdresses.
You miss my point. I'm not against headdresses in general. I'm against headdresses that look stupid.
We're going to have to agree to disagree then, because I think these look fine.
They're far less obtrusive than the Thousand Sons or Night Lords ones.
Heck, they're far less obtrusive than the ones the Vostroyans wear.
Personally, if it were me--I'd be painting the "headdresses" the same color as the head. As it stands, they just look odd with the color tones.
Sasori wrote:Someone with good Photoshop skills, should turn the top right Necron Flayed one, into a "Haters gonna hate" De-Motivational.
I asked in the other thread, and someone delivered...but attached it to Dakka's gallery. I popped it right into my "rehosting" folder for usage.
It's in the spoilers.
Spoiler:
Yep gonna have to disagree with you too. Its not about how obtrusive something is, its about whether they fit the aesthetic style.
Vestroyean, Thousandsun and Night Lord look very home and original, smooth necron head with headdresses? not so much.
The Ghost Arc seems to make sense to me, in some of the fluff ( not all ) they describe the Necrons as needing a separate mechanism to phase their troops ie. monolith or the phase generator in Fall of Damnos, maybe the Ghost arc is simply for situations where it would be more practical to transport them physically or when a monolith or a device capable of teleporting troops isn't available.
Whatever the reason for Necrons having a troop transport, it dosent really affect me too much as I think that the Ghost/Doomsday arc looks fantastic (my personal favorite out of the new Necrons) and I am defiantly picking one up
Ctan_Overlord wrote:The Ghost Arc seems to make sense to me, in some of the fluff ( not all ) they describe the Necrons as needing a separate mechanism to phase their troops ie. monolith or the phase generator in Fall of Damnos, maybe the Ghost arc is simply for situations where it would be more practical to transport them physically or when a monolith or a device capable of teleporting troops isn't available.
Whatever the reason for Necrons having a troop transport, it dosent really affect me too much as I think that the Ghost/Doomsday arc looks fantastic (my personal favorite out of the new Necrons) and I am defiantly picking one up
Basically this, but we should all probably wait until the Codex is out. I mean, it could be the most gorgeous model, but still have the worst rules.
Ctan_Overlord wrote:The Ghost Arc seems to make sense to me, in some of the fluff ( not all ) they describe the Necrons as needing a separate mechanism to phase their troops ie. monolith or the phase generator in Fall of Damnos, maybe the Ghost arc is simply for situations where it would be more practical to transport them physically or when a monolith or a device capable of teleporting troops isn't available.
Whatever the reason for Necrons having a troop transport, it dosent really affect me too much as I think that the Ghost/Doomsday arc looks fantastic (my personal favorite out of the new Necrons) and I am defiantly picking one up
Basically this, but we should all probably wait until the Codex is out. I mean, it could be the most gorgeous model, but still have the worst rules.
Excellent point, but I at the very least doubt that the cannon on the Doomsday arc is going to disappoint... then again.
Ctan_Overlord wrote:The Ghost Arc seems to make sense to me, in some of the fluff ( not all ) they describe the Necrons as needing a separate mechanism to phase their troops ie. monolith or the phase generator in Fall of Damnos, maybe the Ghost arc is simply for situations where it would be more practical to transport them physically or when a monolith or a device capable of teleporting troops isn't available.
Whatever the reason for Necrons having a troop transport, it dosent really affect me too much as I think that the Ghost/Doomsday arc looks fantastic (my personal favorite out of the new Necrons) and I am defiantly picking one up
Basically this, but we should all probably wait until the Codex is out. I mean, it could be the most gorgeous model, but still have the worst rules.
Excellent point, but I at the very least doubt that the cannon on the Doomsday arc is going to disappoint... then again.
Supposedly, it's BS4 with a large blast S9 AP1 shot.
If true, I am so getting it.
Necrons are metal Anti-Spirals. Your mind = blown.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Ctan_Overlord wrote:
KilroyKiljoy wrote:
Ctan_Overlord wrote:The Ghost Arc seems to make sense to me, in some of the fluff ( not all ) they describe the Necrons as needing a separate mechanism to phase their troops ie. monolith or the phase generator in Fall of Damnos, maybe the Ghost arc is simply for situations where it would be more practical to transport them physically or when a monolith or a device capable of teleporting troops isn't available.
Whatever the reason for Necrons having a troop transport, it dosent really affect me too much as I think that the Ghost/Doomsday arc looks fantastic (my personal favorite out of the new Necrons) and I am defiantly picking one up
Basically this, but we should all probably wait until the Codex is out. I mean, it could be the most gorgeous model, but still have the worst rules.
Excellent point, but I at the very least doubt that the cannon on the Doomsday arc is going to disappoint... then again.
Supposedly, it's BS4 with a large blast S9 AP1 shot.
If true, I am so getting it.
...........Now even I'M tempted. Land Raiders can suck it.
Ctan_Overlord wrote:The Ghost Arc seems to make sense to me, in some of the fluff ( not all ) they describe the Necrons as needing a separate mechanism to phase their troops ie. monolith or the phase generator in Fall of Damnos, maybe the Ghost arc is simply for situations where it would be more practical to transport them physically or when a monolith or a device capable of teleporting troops isn't available.
Whatever the reason for Necrons having a troop transport, it dosent really affect me too much as I think that the Ghost/Doomsday arc looks fantastic (my personal favorite out of the new Necrons) and I am defiantly picking one up
Basically this, but we should all probably wait until the Codex is out. I mean, it could be the most gorgeous model, but still have the worst rules.
Excellent point, but I at the very least doubt that the cannon on the Doomsday arc is going to disappoint... then again.
Supposedly, it's BS4 with a large blast S9 AP1 shot.
If true, I am so getting it.
Ooh sounds nasty Will be a nice addition to my army if that turns out to be true, Necrons have been in need of some good olde blast weapons, the fact that its S9 AP1 also helps
I just don't like the upsidedown look they went with. I think I'll keep mine the same as the transports and just do something with the prow to not block the gun.
Sir Harry Flashman, VC wrote:This is awesome! Take my money GW, I demand it.
Anyone reckon this was an actual leak by the GW marketing guys?
I would suggest the printing company would be in a spot of bother if it's not...
Leak from printing company, sold for 350 pounds to BoW.
don't worry about Winkowski Printing, the volume of WD is not significant for their business, anyway WP is the cheapest on the market atm.
GW was expecting leakage, that is the reason why WD goes late to print. pictures are leaking from WD every month and some times you can find them on polish websites...
Sir Harry Flashman, VC wrote:This is awesome! Take my money GW, I demand it.
Anyone reckon this was an actual leak by the GW marketing guys?
I would suggest the printing company would be in a spot of bother if it's not...
Leak from printing company, sold for 350 pounds to BoW.
don't worry about Winkowski Printing, the volume of WD is not significant for their business, anyway WP is the cheapest on the market atm.
GW was expecting leakage, that is the reason why WD goes late to print. pictures are leaking from WD every month and some times you can find them on polish websites...
Really? How do you know this?
Do you have anymore leaks?
I don't mind the fact that most of their races have a parallel, and in fact, I think it adds a lot of fun to the game. If it ain't broke, don't fix it, and undead Egyptian armies definitely are a thing that most people go absolutely nuts over. I am one of those people. My wallet is going to be sad when they get released for preorder, and my paint set will be happy.
Orminah wrote:Tomb Kings in Space = Very happy nerd.
I don't mind the fact that most of their races have a parallel, and in fact, I think it adds a lot of fun to the game. If it ain't broke, don't fix it, and undead Egyptian armies definitely are a thing that most people go absolutely nuts over. I am one of those people. My wallet is going to be sad when they get released for preorder, and my paint set will be happy.
Love the new models! The only things that I do not like as much are the named HQ as they are too covered in bling for my likes, the necrons being transported (not the transport itself) beause the remind me too much of the star wars droids. Also, the sniper dudes cyclops heads sepereate them too much from the rest of the orce for my tastes.
Other than that, everything looks fantastic, nice to see GW producing some quality stuff after a fairly disappointing few months of not so good models.
Cool looking pics. Saldy (though not unexpected) there appears to be a lot of Finecast going on. Bummer for me, as I have to do all my GW purchasing online...and I refuse to risk Finecast purchases online.
Linkdead wrote:Get ready for the 9 Ark MSU necron armies...
Only if the weapons on the Ark transport are as good as splinter cannons on venoms, and then only then if the points costs and armor values/defensive shielding etc are worth it. If you can have a 13/13/12 skimmer until it takes a glance/pen, is that better functionally than a 10/10/10 skimmer with a 5+ invuln? Math Hammer-ers, go!
Linkdead wrote:Get ready for the 9 Ark MSU necron armies...
Only if the weapons on the Ark transport are as good as splinter cannons on venoms, and then only then if the points costs and armor values/defensive shielding etc are worth it. If you can have a 13/13/12 skimmer until it takes a glance/pen, is that better functionally than a 10/10/10 skimmer with a 5+ invuln? Math Hammer-ers, go!
Is that the real AV of the Ark, or are you just making that up
Linkdead wrote:Get ready for the 9 Ark MSU necron armies...
Only if the weapons on the Ark transport are as good as splinter cannons on venoms, and then only then if the points costs and armor values/defensive shielding etc are worth it. If you can have a 13/13/12 skimmer until it takes a glance/pen, is that better functionally than a 10/10/10 skimmer with a 5+ invuln? Math Hammer-ers, go!
Is that the real AV of the Ark, or are you just making that up
All based on rumors - base statline is 11/11/10 open topped skimmer with "Quantum Shielding" (probably an upgrade you gotta pay points for)
Quantum shielding - +2 AV on all sides until the vehicle takes its first unsaved glancing or penetrating hit, then subsequent hits are dropped to normal AV. Makes me wonder if the rule will read like shadowfield for DE where you gotta make every throw individually....I hope not.
Anyhow going by those rumors you'll have a 13/13/12 (or maybe 12/12/12, who knows until codex day, right?) until something gets through the shielding.
Linkdead wrote:Get ready for the 9 Ark MSU necron armies...
Provided it's not only warriors who can take the Ghost Ark. I think it might be, considering how there are warriors in there. In that case, its 6 MSU
6 warrior ghost arks and 3 heavy support doom arks. I guess if an elite choice can take a transport then it will be a 12 ark list. Glue all your troop weapons to the outside of your transport, brilliant.
Linkdead wrote:Get ready for the 9 Ark MSU necron armies...
Only if the weapons on the Ark transport are as good as splinter cannons on venoms, and then only then if the points costs and armor values/defensive shielding etc are worth it. If you can have a 13/13/12 skimmer until it takes a glance/pen, is that better functionally than a 10/10/10 skimmer with a 5+ invuln? Math Hammer-ers, go!
Is that the real AV of the Ark, or are you just making that up
All based on rumors - base statline is 11/11/10 open topped skimmer with "Quantum Shielding" (probably an upgrade you gotta pay points for)
Quantum shielding - +2 AV on all sides until the vehicle takes its first unsaved glancing or penetrating hit, then subsequent hits are dropped to normal AV. Makes me wonder if the rule will read like shadowfield for DE where you gotta make every throw individually....I hope not.
Anyhow going by those rumors you'll have a 13/13/12 (or maybe 12/12/12, who knows until codex day, right?) until something gets through the shielding.
What does it mean by unsaved?
Do the rumors talk about it being always obscured or something?
Linkdead wrote:Get ready for the 9 Ark MSU necron armies...
Only if the weapons on the Ark transport are as good as splinter cannons on venoms, and then only then if the points costs and armor values/defensive shielding etc are worth it. If you can have a 13/13/12 skimmer until it takes a glance/pen, is that better functionally than a 10/10/10 skimmer with a 5+ invuln? Math Hammer-ers, go!
Is that the real AV of the Ark, or are you just making that up
All based on rumors - base statline is 11/11/10 open topped skimmer with "Quantum Shielding" (probably an upgrade you gotta pay points for)
Quantum shielding - +2 AV on all sides until the vehicle takes its first unsaved glancing or penetrating hit, then subsequent hits are dropped to normal AV. Makes me wonder if the rule will read like shadowfield for DE where you gotta make every throw individually....I hope not.
Anyhow going by those rumors you'll have a 13/13/12 (or maybe 12/12/12, who knows until codex day, right?) until something gets through the shielding.
What does it mean by unsaved?
Do the rumors talk about it being always obscured or something?
No but I'd damn well bet you'd want to keep your skimmers in cover/obscured from enemy anti-tank weapons. I know i would.
Linkdead wrote:Get ready for the 9 Ark MSU necron armies...
Only if the weapons on the Ark transport are as good as splinter cannons on venoms, and then only then if the points costs and armor values/defensive shielding etc are worth it. If you can have a 13/13/12 skimmer until it takes a glance/pen, is that better functionally than a 10/10/10 skimmer with a 5+ invuln? Math Hammer-ers, go!
Is that the real AV of the Ark, or are you just making that up
All based on rumors - base statline is 11/11/10 open topped skimmer with "Quantum Shielding" (probably an upgrade you gotta pay points for)
Quantum shielding - +2 AV on all sides until the vehicle takes its first unsaved glancing or penetrating hit, then subsequent hits are dropped to normal AV. Makes me wonder if the rule will read like shadowfield for DE where you gotta make every throw individually....I hope not.
Anyhow going by those rumors you'll have a 13/13/12 (or maybe 12/12/12, who knows until codex day, right?) until something gets through the shielding.
What does it mean by unsaved?
Do the rumors talk about it being always obscured or something?
No but I'd damn well bet you'd want to keep your skimmers in cover/obscured from enemy anti-tank weapons. I know i would.
Yeah...
but judging by the name "Ghost" Ark it probably has some nifty special rule like that.
Go through terrain maybe?
Wraiths and C'tan can ignore terrain, I don't know why their skimmers couldn't have the same technology.
Hell that might be a good segue into having a reason for transports (instead of teleporting) in the first place - a way to move and attack on the battlefield, ignoring terrain, while harvesting souls. Ii want to read this codex now. Lol.
Phase generator -
the ghost ark flickers in and out of reality, giving it a spectral appearance. It gracefully passes through walls without a trace, and even the most destructive of blows pass through it. Allows the vehicle to ignore all types of terrain. May pass through impassable terrain, but cannot end it's move in it. The vehicle also has a 4+ invulnerable save.
Options - may take quantum shielding for +20 points.
This is what I think the rules will end up looking like. And I am most likely wrong
I added some information from Wayland Games to the first post, although I am still uncertain about some things posted there. I believe that Lychguard and Praetorians are in one plastic box. Same with Immortals and Deathmarks. Together with the 2in1 vehicles that would make 4 plastic kits, the usual allowance for a 1st wave. I also think that Flayed Ones are Finecast. Anyway, now we have official prices and short descriptions. Nice tidbit is that the right Overlord is taken from the command barge and not a single finecast model.
Some comments:
1.) I don't believe the talk about an placed leak by GW. I believe the leak happened around the printing in Poland, the payment by BoW and the intentional late printing because of GW fearing leaks. The pics are not good quality, but good enough for WD scans.
2.) I don't have a Necron army but sympathize with the army since 3rd edition. I won't start an army now, but might buy some new stuff just for fun. I am pleased with the abundance of new units and liking most of them. I still fear Wardisms ("You know who made the 'Stupid Carbon Unit' tatoo on Draigo's back? Imhotekh!") in an army with such a delicate background. I have no problem with sophisticated changes like in the Dark Eldar Codex, but please don't mess with the Gods.
3.) The leak comprises everything in the WD, which deals with the first wave. Several rumoured things are missing, like the big walker, the destroyers, the spyders, maybe a flyer. But they are not in the WD and first wave. But if rumours about GW's new release policy are true, we will see the second wave soon. Maybe not soon enough for some small companies to make useful kits and models though
4.) I don't have to like every model, only the models I intend to use (or most of them). If you don't like specific models, there are certainly ways to do other army builds, e.g. if you dislike the transport or the command barge.
5.) Personally I would leave off both pilots from the command barge, but they look okay on the anihilation barge, which I prefer from the looks. I don't like the transport and gunship barge unconverted. But a closed transport with a small teleporter like in this old conversion (and Jes Goodwin's original concept) looks quite good:
6.) I like the new infantry models. And they will look better in my favorite Lorn V painting scheme (main colour tin bitz) that makes the crowns less standing out. Not hating the new Flayed Ones, they blend well with the old models. It is just that I have never seen them painted convincingly and don't understand the concept of metal skeletons with skin parts being undercover among humans, but I am still reading Fall of Damnos.
7.) Necrons always had a proximity to mummies, they live on Tomb worlds no less. And the first Necrons clearly had Egyptian symbols. I have no problem with GW stressing this influence, as paint can make it more subtle than in the presented studio models. BTW I also like the green rods and would be sad if they left. But it seems like all warriors still have them.
I've not seen anyone else mention this but in the BoW images it looks like they have been photographed from the WD from a low angle. For example the image above the vertical lines of the bordering rectangle show some very clear pespective convergence (they aren't parallel).
The effect of this is that the aspect ratio will be somewhat screwed up and the actual models are probably slightly taller and/or thinner than they appear in the images.
Mad4Minis wrote:Cool looking pics. Saldy (though not unexpected) there appears to be a lot of Finecast going on. Bummer for me, as I have to do all my GW purchasing online...and I refuse to risk Finecast purchases online.
You can always call the GW support line. They've been remarkably willing to send my friends replacement models. Probably because they realize they're peddling cheap resin junk...
Best of luck though
Are the Overlords just the new name for Necron Lords? Or do they represent a power level higher than regular lords? Something like a Chapter Master versus a Chapter Captain. Also what's the deal with the Cryptek? Is he like a Librarian, Haemonculus, etc? In other words a support HQ?
Generally speaking what's the deal with HQ's now? I understand that we don't have a lot of info, so if no one has any idea that's cool. Also I apologize if this topic is elaborated on already, but there's quite a lot of posts to sift through.
And better yet - where's the model for the Cryptek? It appears that you can have multiple of these things in your army. I'd hate for it to arrive as a single one-post Failcost miniature? That'd suck to need lots of them yet they are all in one pose.
H.B.M.C. wrote:I figure the Cryptek is a re-imagined Pariah.
Pariahs I think are replaced by the lycheguard.
Though it would be cool to have something with the pariahs anti-psy abilities. Maybe the Cryptek will have those.
CthuluIsSpy wrote:Did I mention that it might have 72" range?
By all that's holy, why would you WANT to move? 2 of these on either flank would surely cover most of the board and be able to annihilate everything in their paths?! Stormravens and razorwings would surely be their biggest weakness just based on the speed and firepower they carry... I'm expecting a messy battle report in this months wd! Incidentally who do you think they'll be up against? I doubt it'll be sisters, gw would surely want to pimp de or gk again just for a clash of the latest models report...?
I hope those doomsday canons aren't in squadrons or they could get nasty.... I am always waiting to see what could be in a squadron ever since they made vendettas 1-3 per slot...
Kid_Kyoto wrote:I'm not sorry to see the glow rods go. Hopefully the lime green jewel on the monolith is gone as well.
I never was a fan of bitz that have to be added after painting or of mixing media like that.
Davor wrote:I am actually liking the lack of "glow rods". It might have looked great back then, but now it just looks "toyish" and not to be taken seriously.
I like the new look. Just hoping there is some great fluff where the Crons and Tyranids team up.
Couldn't agree more. Those glow rods looked like they were snagged from a Lego kit. It was very gimmicky when it was released and looked silly.
For those that do like the look, it's not hard to find green plastic rods that can be cut to fit the new models.
Overall, I'm loving the new releases. The vehicles add some interesting elements and the new infantry units still fit very well with the current models. They finally added variety to a rather boring army. Still, not an army I'd play, but one I'd sure like to see across the table from me.
Howard A Treesong wrote:How do you know there aren't people in the Monolith?
Crew: None.
Codex: Necrons, page 21.
That's how.
Of course the fluff could be changed, but right now Monoliths don't have crew.
Isn't that more of ruling for the use of the vehicle in-game than a genuine piece of fluff? Otherwise okay.
Kroothawk wrote:
5.) Personally I would leave off both pilots from the command barge, but they look okay on the anihilation barge, which I prefer from the looks. I don't like the transport and gunship barge unconverted. But a closed transport with a small teleporter like in this old conversion (and Jes Goodwin's original concept) looks quite good:
OK I am also very tired of people knocking the glow rods only for the sake that you could paint over them so easily... How is it a bad thing to have the option for gamers who like them when gamers who don't can just prime right over them?
The above image is a conversion someone built some time ago...
Okay, with the book's release date rapidly approaching, let's pull back the curtain on the codex a bit. First off some (rather important) background notes:
There is a dramatic change in the fluff in this codex from the previous incarnation of the Necrons. The Necrontyr's empire was massive at one point, but the different Lords in the empire started to turn against each other in civil war. To prevent this from happening the overall ruler of the Necrons (the Silent King) started the war against the Old Ones specifically to give them a common enemy to fight against to prevent his empire from destroying itself. Of course, the Old Ones ended up kicking their butts and in desperation, the Silent King found the C'Tan and agreed to the Deceiver's pact without realizing what he was doing. However, after the Necrons helped the C'Tan to kill off the last Old Ones, the Silent King then ordered the Necrons to turn on the C'Tan in vengeance and utterly destroyed the C'Tan into tiny shards. This war agains the C'Tan weakened the Necrons overall so much they decided to go into stasis to avoid the vengeance of the Eldar (the C'Tan had killed the Old Ones, but not all their children).
Now that the Necrons have reawakened in the 41st millennium, their goal is no longer to 'harvest' souls for the C'Tan (the C'Tan shards are now their slaves) as it was in the old book, but rather to reestablish the great Necron empire that spanned the galaxy before the war with the Old Ones began. However, the overall hierarchy of the Necron people is gone for the most part, leaving each individual Empire to once again rule for itself. This means each Tomb World (or cluster of Necron worlds) is essentially a separate little empire to itself, with a full backstory and idiosyncrasies. While Necron warriors are pretty much just automatons and Immortals not too much better, every other higher Necron being is now much more like an actual person, as their essence is simply trapped inside a metal body.
So there is lots of crazy nuance to Necron culture that was never present before. The codex now has plenty of 'quote' boxes featuring memorable quotes from Necron Lords like other races have in their books. There are some Necron Lords who honor valor in battle, there are a few Necron Lords who trade with other races, and although an uneasy alliance apparently, yes Necrons and Blood Angels did end up fighting against a Tyranid Hive Fleet together. Oh, and there is definitely plenty of reason to have Necron vs. Necron action now (as the old feuds between competing Necron Lords flare back up again).
All in all, it is a major tonal shift. While part of me recoils from it, the other part of me thinks that Necrons as they were had no distinct 'character' that each player could choose to get behind. Yes, the race as a whole had 'character' in how it was organized and functioned, but there was never any really good reason that a player should have his Necron force painted and modeled 'X' way as opposed to another player with his Necron army looking 'Y' way. People certainly painted their Necrons in different (neat) ways, but there was never really any good fluff giving players inspiration to do so.
The only real 'personality' in the old book was the Deceiver, and that frankly wasn't the Necrons, it was their god. The mindless mission that all Necrons were on was basically really similar to Tyranids...the Necrons were coming to harvest every living thing in the galaxy (yawn).
This new incarnation, love it or hate it, gives the Necrons a whole wide array of personality and every single empire has different goals and motives (not to mention paint schemes, markings, etc). Some Necron Lords are obsessed with finding the perfect flesh bodies to transfer their sentience back into. One Necron Tomb World was damaged during the great sleep and erased all the Necron sentience and has started basically commanding its Necrons like true robots (and is actively attacking other Necron worlds to take them over and keep growing), and there are of course dozens more little stories. The Silent King, who put himself into exile (for his unforgivable crime against his people) by leaving the galaxy after defeating the C'Tan encountered the Tyranids in the void between galaxies and has returned to spur the Necrons into action against the Tyranids (realizing that if the Tyranids wipe the galaxy clean of biological matter, then the Necrons will never find a form to transfer their minds back into).
Oh, and the biggest rival of the Necrons is now actually the Altaoic (sp?) Craftworld. Apparently they are the only Eldar who stayed true on the original path to seek out and destroy Necron Tomb Worlds while the rest of the Eldar got all caught up and destroyed in their decadence and then the Fall. Altaoic rangers have traveled the galaxy far and wide over the millennia (ever since the Necrons went to sleep) to track down and destroy or hamper Tomb Worlds from reawakening.
So with this new direction there is now tons of different possibilities for players to make Necrons forces different from each other and there are neat new takes on 'nemesis' races like Eldar & Tyranids to drive gaming plots as well as good reason for Necron on Necron battles.
And as for totally destroying the background of the C'Tan, the codex does allude to the fact that there are lots of unaccounted for C'Tan shards still allegedly cast around the galaxy. The Necron are always trying to hunt them down and imprison them (in pocket dimension prisons), but this does still leave the door totally wide open for a shard of 'The Dragon' to be on Mars and for shards of 'The Deceiver' to have done all the crazy things that's been written about him in novels. Essentially, the full power C'Tan were massively, massively powerful, and the 'shard' versions of them are closer to the idea of what we had in the last codex anyway (something that can be killed/banished on a battlefield).
So while it is a little shocking to have such a massive fluff change hit, I do think it is probably the right way forward to create a more fully realized faction. But I do think it is probably going to be a massive turn-off to those players who absolutely adored the old fluff for the army.
Thats getting a very big WTF from me. I like my old automaton pirates. I didn't want tomb kings in space.... I hate mat ward with a passion reserved usually for things such as bad drivers, obnoxious bosses, and members of the opposite political party.
Comrade wrote:Thats getting a very big WTF from me. I like my old automaton pirates. I didn't want tomb kings in space.... I hate mat ward with a passion reserved usually for things such as bad drivers, obnoxious bosses, and members of the opposite political party.
Seriously, can we please stop blaming Mat Ward for everything?
The guy with the writing credit on the codex doesn't have sole creative control over that army's design and background. This isn't Mat Ward changing things to suit himself. This is the direction that the design team has chosen for the 40K background.
And quite frankly, I love it. It's a far more interesting background than 'Yeah, they have metal bodies, and want to kill everyone who doesn't...'
I finally figured out what I wasn't liking: The Necron Elite-looking units with the spears, blades, etc. The only Necrons with handheld CC weapons in the old codex were the Pariahs (Rare) and the Lord (High status). I like the polearms because they're reminiscent of the Lord's staff, but the shields, swords, and blades just don't look Necron-y.
The other thing I don't like is the segmented "cloth" on the loincloths and capes, since I'm used to the newer Lord's regular cloth cape. However, it's a cool painting opportunity, especially since you can have the segmented parts made of the same color metal as the body sections.
Conversions I'll do/figure opinions...
Barge: Totally going the support barge look, since it works very well. I might remove the drivers if I really don't like them.
Ghost Ark: Get an extra Necron "crossed arm" body for the driver, or replace him with the lord from the barge (Since I want the Ghost Ark to be my lord's ceremonial vessel)
Doomsday Machine: If I want to make one, I'll chop out one section of the ribs to make it look more compact.
Deathmarks: Nothing. Maybe cut off the "balls" on each side of the scope, since they're visually distracting.
Lychguard: I just don't like them that much.
Praetorians: One idea I had was to just replace the arms with a blaster, or do the "rods of the covenant" (Snicker) one. Also, totally cutting off the balls on the ponytails.
Immortals: Nothing, they look terrific.
Overlord: While I prefer the old lord model, both overlords look pretty good. The vanilla overlord (The one not sold with the barge) has the only good-looking helmet crest. I like the lord looking regal and opulent, since he's supposed to be the one guy with most of his sanity and intelligence intact.
The Stormlord: I refuse to call either of the special characters by their names. He looks meh. I really am wondering why he's not the vanilla overlord, since he's outcooled by that one. He seems to have a unique claw, with wires and crap connected to it; Abaddon/Huron Blackheart wannabe much?
The Infinite: Uh... Why does he have a psychic hood? Also, I really think they needed to up the uniqueness on both overlords, because they look very meh. If his entire modus operandi is durability, then have him built with heavier armor all over the body.
I never understood people who get turned off because of fluff, if you don't like it, imagine your own plot line and collect your army in that spirit, the fluff never impacts the actual game on the table top... Otherwise I would not see 60 purifiers on a table when there are only 40 total on Titan according to the "Fluff." Of course Ward is an ass that is why none of his books make sense but hey...
Honestly, after playing necrons for 3 years, i got bored and moved onto Tyranids, then dark eldar. However, this fluff looks incredibly clever and well written. Great ideas are had. I hope they do videos like they did for the Dark Eldar discussing the fluff.
Fetterkey wrote:That fluff is a massive improvement. The old Necron book had probably the worst fluff in the game. Everything about this release is looking great.
I think it was about on par with the original Dark Eldar fluff, which essentially boiled down to 'We're pointy and like stabbing people'
It's all part of the natural progression. An army's background starts out fairly condensed, and then they will expand a little with each iteration. The original Necrons were just waking up. Nobody really knew what they were about yet. This version shows them awake and kicking, and gives them much more character as a consequence of them getting out and putting their stamp back on the galaxy.
So far as the fluff goes, it doesn't sound terrible, and it's something of an improvement on what it replaces, but it's not about to make me buy boxes of Necrons either.
Thanks for that Yak! You've been like our Necron Savior this whole time.
Seems interesting that the Necrons went to sleep to avoid the Eldar, I guess this means the Enslaver Plague has been retconned, or changed significantly.
I can't wait to get my Hands on the Dex! That's for sure.
Fetterkey wrote:That fluff is a massive improvement. The old Necron book had probably the worst fluff in the game. Everything about this release is looking great.
I think it was about on par with the original Dark Eldar fluff, which essentially boiled down to 'We're pointy and like stabbing people'
It's all part of the natural progression. An army's background starts out fairly condensed, and then they will expand a little with each iteration. The original Necrons were just waking up. Nobody really knew what they were about yet. This version shows them awake and kicking, and gives them much more character as a consequence of them getting out and putting their stamp back on the galaxy.
You talking about the old DE or the new DE? Because I love the new DE.
And I've decided to take on the mantle of expanding the Necron Empire once more (like I imagine everyone in the tournament scene will do for the next 2 months.)
KilroyKiljoy wrote:You talking about the old DE or the new DE?
insaniak wrote:... the original Dark Eldar fluff...
Although technically the 3rd Ed codex wasn't the 'original' introduction of Dark Eldar. There wa sa 2nd edition Citadel Journal list that had them as Slaanesh-worshipping Chaos Eldar.
Sasori wrote:Thanks for that Yak! You've been like our Necron Savior this whole time.
Seems interesting that the Necrons went to sleep to avoid the Eldar, I guess this means the Enslaver Plague has been retconned, or changed significantly.
I can't wait to get my Hands on the Dex! That's for sure.
Yeah, they really briefly mention that the wars unleashed some nasty things from the Warp, but they literally do not mention the enslavers anymore. It is very clear that the Eldar empire is the main reason they go into hibernation, having some sort of premonition that the Eldar can and will eventually crumble as all living beings and empires do.
It was a fairly solid plan, except a lot can go wrong when you're sleeping for 60 million years, and apparently billions of Necrons have been killed by simple, normal shifts in the galaxy in that time (stars going supernova, tectonics crushing tombs, etc)...but what they didn't predict was how poorly they'd all awake from the sleep. All Necrons were supposed to wake up at once, but that didn't happen. Some Necrons woke up during all periods of history (including the Horus Heresy) and many still haven't woken up. And in some cases those that wake up have suffered terrible afflictions (like the Flayer disease).
yakface wrote:
Some Necrons woke up during all periods of history (including the Horus Heresy) and many still haven't woken up.
Being a fan of the Horus Heresy series thus far and Necrons being my primary army I'd love to see a touch of Necrons even if they are just a few "not sure what's happened" warriors in the Horus era fluff.
Sasori wrote:Thanks for that Yak! You've been like our Necron Savior this whole time.
Seems interesting that the Necrons went to sleep to avoid the Eldar, I guess this means the Enslaver Plague has been retconned, or changed significantly.
I can't wait to get my Hands on the Dex! That's for sure.
Yeah, they really briefly mention that the wars unleashed some nasty things from the Warp, but they literally do not mention the enslavers anymore. It is very clear that the Eldar empire is the main reason they go into hibernation, having some sort of premonition that the Eldar can and will eventually crumble as all living beings and empires do.
It was a fairly solid plan, except a lot can go wrong when you're sleeping for 60 million years, and apparently billions of Necrons have been killed by simple, normal shifts in the galaxy in that time (stars going supernova, tectonics crushing tombs, etc)...but what they didn't predict was how poorly they'd all awake from the sleep. All Necrons were supposed to wake up at once, but that didn't happen. Some Necrons woke up during all periods of history (including the Horus Heresy) and many still haven't woken up. And in some cases those that wake up have suffered terrible afflictions (like the Flayer disease).
Oh wow, That sounds pretty neat. So, are we going to see different points an History through the Necrons View? I'd be kind of curious to see what the Higher ups thought about the Horus Hersey, and other integral parts in history.
I'm really liking this shift so far though, giving the army a real personality is a very good thing, and so far it sounds like it was well planned, and written.
• Imotekh the Stormlord (Lord of the Sau): The most powerful Necron Overlord currently. A master strategist whose nemesis is the Orks (since their random nature is the only thing that can accidentally disrupt his flawless plans).
• Nemesor Zahndrekh: Overlord damaged in the great sleep who still thinks he is flesh and blood fighting the war of secession against his brother Necrontyr. Therefore, he is one of the few Necron Lords who still fights with honor and valor towards his enemies. Has a bodyguard named Vargard Obryron.
• Illuminor Szeras: The Necrontyr who took the C'Tan's knowledge to do bio-transfer and actually made it a reality...so he's the chief architect within the Necrons for actually making the bio-transference happen. He is a master of technology and can augment D3 units in the army with an augmentation.
• Orikan the Diviner: A master astromancer (a Cryptek specializing in tech that can predict the future), he is renown for knowing what will happen and when. During the game he is able to achieve a 'powered up' state that gives him a greatly increases statline, but this boost can randomly end on any turn dropping him back down to his regular stats.
• Anrakyr the Traveller: A Necron Lord whose goal is to unite the Necron Empires again. He travels to Tomb Worlds still sleeping and kills the 'lesser' inhabitants that may live there unaware they are on a Tomb World, the 'price' for this service is to claim a tithe from the newly awakened legions. Some Necrons see him as a golden crusader others don't want reunification and would rather see him dead.
• Trazyn the Infinite: He is a Necron who woke very early and is fascinated with studying and collecting history. His tomb world is filled with secret trinkets including (I quote) 'a giant of a man clad in baroque power armor' (start your wild theories here!). He even will attack other Necron tomb worlds to capture artifacts from them that he doesn't think they deserve. He is the character that has the CC ability to pick one type of model he killed that round and inflict wounds on all models of that type in the combat.
• Necron Overlord: Generic DIY Necron Overlord (guy who rules a Tomb World) with plenty of options. Can ride on a Catacomb Command Barge (which is a one man transport) as can all the named 'Lords' above, but not those that are Crypteks in their fluff (Illuminor Szeras & Orikan the Diviner). Also can be a Destroyer Lord instead.
• Royal Court: 0-5 regular Necron Lords (lieutenants to the Overlords) as well as 0-5 Crypteks. Crypteks are masters of Necron technology, whose abilities sometimes appear like sorcery to other races, but they do not have any psychic powers...all their abilities do not require a psychic test or anything like that (nor are they ever referred to as psychic powers in any way). Any member of the Court (Lord or Cryptek) can be split off at the start of the game to lead a unit of Warriors, Immortals, Lychguard or Deathmarks (but only one per unit). Neither Lords nor Crypteks are ICs.
DEDICATED TRANSPORTS
• Night Scythe: A variant of the Doom Scythe fighter that is a 15 model flyer transport with the 'supersonic' 36" flat-out move that the new flyers (that are really skimmers) have. Can carry jump infantry models (taking up 2 spots each) and fire all its weapons even when moving at cruising speed. Has living metal (chance to ignore crew shaken & stunned) but not quantum shielding (which gives +2 armor until the vehicle suffers its first glancing or penetrating hit). AV 11/11/11 like most Necron vehicles (not open-topped though).
• Ghost Ark: 10 model transport, Open-topped AV11 with quantum shielding and living metal. Also is able to regenerate D3 models to one unit within 6" each Necron movement phase (but cannot take the unit above its starting size).
• Catacomb Command Barge: One-man vehicle for most ICs. Open-topped AV11 with quantum shielding & living metal. Can make sweep attacks over 3 enemy units it passes over when it moves. Also the character can lose wounds to negate immobilized or weapon destroyed results.
ELITES
• Deathmarks: 24" range rapid-fire AP 5 sniper unit that can choose to Deep Strike in immediately after any enemy unit arrives from Reserves (which just allows the enemy to fire at them first?)...teleporting in from a pocket dimension to target their prey. They can also mark a single unit as their 'target' which allows them to roll to wound on a 2+. Beautiful models from the pics leaked, but at the point cost listed I can't see them ever being used except to see those great models on the table. Can be transported on a Night Scythe.
• Lychguard: Traditionally these have been the bodyguards for the Overlords. Come standard with Warscythes (+2 Strength Power weapon) and can replace them with Hyperphase swords (power weapon) and Dispersion Shields (the thing that gives them a 4+ invuln and reflects enemy shooting). I made a mistake before. The Shields don't only reflect enemy shooting within 6", they reflect all enemy shooting, but only against enemy units who are within 6" of them (they reflect saved wounds, they don't affect blast/templates, for example). Can be transported on a Night Scythe.
• Triarch Ptaetorians: These used to be effectively the 'police' (my term) of the main Necron ruler (the last of which was the Silent King) to help enforce his will onto the Lords of the Empire. They are known to respect great warriors and honor valor and have sometimes ordered Necron Overlords to stop attacking a foe they deemed worthy of respect (much to the Lord's chagrin). They are Jump Infantry with a 6" AP2 S5 weapon. They can swap that out for Void Blades (a weapon with Rending and the same Entriopic ability that Scarabs have) and Particle Casters (a pistol weapon). No transport option.
• C'Tan Shard: Must take 2 of the 11 listed ability choices that basically shape what kind of C'Tan shard you're fielding. No ability can be taken more than once in the army (even if you take 3 C'Tan shards in the army). The statline is slightly less impressive than previous incarnations of the C'Tan, but still pretty decent. Also has Eternal Warrior and ignores all terrain penalties. Still explodes D6" when they die. Fluff-wise, these are shards effectively controlled by the Necron (even though they have most shards locked away in pocket dimensions). Each shard represents only a portion of the power and consciousness of the C'Tan and therefore in battle the C'Tan may not even think to utilize some of its power because the portion of it that knows it has 'X' power simply isn't there. This is essentially what explains why they only have access to 2 special abilities in battle.
• Flayed Ones: 3 Attacks base (and no additional CC weapons). Can infiltrate or Deep Strike. No transport options.
• Triarch Stalker: Concept Sketch shows a Triarch Praetorian sitting in an open-topped cockpit that is riding on a Necron-style giant almost scorpion walker set of legs. Very cool looking IMHO. Has a variable heat ray (which can be upgraded to a couple of other weapons) that can either be fired as a template or as an Assault 2 S8 24" Heavy2 Melta weapon. Has a Targeting relay which means that any enemy unit hit by the Stalker gets a counter placed by it that allows all other Necron units shooting at the same unit that phase to count as being twin-linked. AV11 & open-topped, but does have Quantum shielding & Living Metal.
TROOPS
• Warriors: You know them, you love them. Described as being basically automatons, with very little (if any) sentience. These were the non-warrior Necontyr before the bio-conversion. See my previous rumors (in the OP) for details on their points cost, etc. Can be transported on a Ghost Ark or Night Scythe.
• Immortals: Immortals are said to have the ability to at least speak, but still aren't too much brighter than Warriors. These were Elite warriors of the Necrontyr before the conversion (not sure who the rank and file troops were if the Warriors were the non-combatants and the Immortals were the Elite soldiers?). Can exchange their Gauss Blasters for Tesla Carbines (24" S5 Assault1, extra hit inflicted on a 'to hit' roll of '6') Can be transported on a Night Scythe.
FAST ATTACK
• Canoptek Wraiths: Protectors of the Tombs while the hosts slumber. Jump Infantry who ignore terrain. 3A base with Rending. All models can take one of a few different upgrades including a Whip Coil (nearly identical to a Tyranid Lash Whip), particle caster (pistol) or a Exile Beamer (12" range that kills a random model in the target unit unless it passes a Strength test).
• Canoptek Scarabs: See the rumors copied in the OP for more details on what Scarbs do now.
• Tomb Blades: Jet Bikes. From the artwork, these look like Necron warriors fused into a flying crescent throne carrying a weapon harness in their arms that is base twin-linked Tesla Carbines. The fluff says that they are pre-programmed with a bunch of different flight patterns and vectors that the onboard Warrior chooses from on the fly. this mitigates the fact that a Warrior has poor coordination, but since the programs are so advanced, in reality they act basically like any other similar unit in an enemy army despite the fact that their 'pilots' are much slower to react. They can upgrade their weapons to a couple different choices (twin-linked Gauss Blaster or Particle Beamer). The entire unit can take any of the 3 options: Nebuloscope (increases BS to 5), Shield Vanes (increased armor save to 3+) & Shadowloom (Stealth).
• Destroyers: New fluff that says Destroyers are infected with some kind of degenerative virus that causes their sole purpose in life to be to kill their enemies. As such they hate everyone and have the Preferred Enemy special rule against everyone (as do Destroyer Lords). They are Jump Infantry now. Any model in the unit can upgrade to a Heavy Destroyer.
HEAVY SUPPORT
• Doomsday Ark: Variant of the Ghost Ark transport: Open-topped, AV11, Quantum Shielding, Living Metal. Something I forogot to say about the Ghost Ark...each Guass Flayer array (5 Flayers) on each side is allowed to fire at a different enemy target (and different from the Doomsday Cannon). Not entirely clear whether a weapon destroyed takes out a whole array or not, but I'm leaning towards yes. The Doomsday cannon has two profiles, one for if the vehicle did or didn't move that turn (with the non-moving one being 72" range S9 AP1 Large Blast). The moving profile only has a 24" range and a S7 blast. Basically described as gunboat whose strategy is to hit first and destroy the enemy before they can fire back.
• Annihilation Barge: Described as anti-infantry support platforms. Variant of the Catacomb Command Barge: Open-topped, AV11, Quantum Shielding, Living Metal. Has a twin-linked Tesla Destructor & a Tesla Cannon, but can upgrade the cannon to a Gauss Cannon. Not exactly sure why you'd want to do that except for the extra range (36" for the Gauss Cannon as opposed to all Tesla weapons which are 24" range).
• Monolith: 35 Point reduction along with corresponding nerf in invulnerability (were you not expecting that?). Still AV 14 and still has Living Metal (although again that only helps remove Crew Stunned/Shaken now). Can still Deep Strike but no longer has invulnerability from Mishaps. Has 4 Gauss Flux Arcs (which are now just Heavy 3 instead of randomly rolled). Particle whip is now just a straight up S8 AP3 24" large blast. The portal can be used to either transport any non-vehicle friendly Necron unit through it or to suck enemy models within 6" to instant death who fail a Strength Test. No bonus to reanimation protocols (the replacement for WBB) is present. Although, at the end of the day, this is still an AV14 vehicle all around, which is pretty imposing in the current game. Unfortunately all of its weapons are really close range, which means it will also now tend to be in Melta range...
• Doom Scythe: Pure fighter variant of the Night Scythe. AV11 with Living Metal (but no Quantum Shielding or open-topped). Is supersonic (36" flat-out) and can fire all its weapons when moving at cruising speed. Has a twin-linked tesla Destructor & a Death Ray, which allows a 3D6" line to be drawn (with one end of the line being within 12" of the vehicle) and causes a number of hits on every unit crossed by the line equal to the number of MODELS in the unit hit. Oh and did I mention that these hits are S10 AP1? Nasty indeed! But at nearly 200 pts for an AV11 vehicle, to get within 12" to unleash this beast will probably be a bit rough.
• Tomb Spyders: The artwork makes them look much more flying and nimble, like giant Scarabs. Can now repair vehicles like a Techmarine, Big Mek, etc. Can take an anti-psychic defense against any power targeting a friendly unit within 3" (nullified on a 4+). Can still create Scarab Swarms, but only into existing swarms on the table (they no longer form a unit with the Spyder) and it can still take damage if it rolls a '1' while doing so. Can take Whip Coils (by giving up a close combat weapon and a +1 to repair vehicles) which is like a Tyranid Lash Whip. Can take 1 or 2 Particle Beamers (by removing its CC/fixer arms) to do so. 1-3 in a unit.
So that's about it for now. But I'd be remiss to point out that I didn't mention any of the special character's abilities really or any of the wargear/rules of the Crypteks. There are lots of neat toys as usual in 5th edition codexes. I'm not going to list them all, but I'll pick a random one that just seemed fun to me...there is a special character (the Stormlord) who makes the first turn of the game be night fighting no matter what the mission and can try to extend the rule into further turns by rolling higher than the current turn number on a D6...in addition, while the Night Fighting rules are in effect all unengaged enemy units suffer D6 S8 AP5 hits on a D6 roll of '6' at the start of each Necron shooting phase (hit by lightning strikes). And of course there is a Cryptek ability 'solar pulse' which allows (once per game) at the start of any turn (friend or foe) for the Night Fighting rules to be cancelled for that turn (or apply if the Night Fighting rules weren't in effect when the pulse was launched).
So I could see an army based around this using Night Fight (with Lighting Strikes, of course), and then any turn they REALLY need to shoot, you can use the Solar Pulse to cancel out the Night Fighting effects on your own turn, which still leaves them affecting enemy shooting on their turn! Seems like it could be quite nasty indeed! Oh, and he can try to seize the Initiative on a 4+ except against Orks (who confound his logic). But of course, he is also over 200 points naturally.
Anyway, plenty more tricks and stuff to read about when the codex comes out!
While I do get the new fluff, someone at a different website mentioned how it would be somewhat cooler to not have named Necrons in the sense that they don't have [Name] the [Description].
So rather than Imotekh the Stormlord, you just have The Stormlord.
Looking at all those special characters (who we'll never get models for - yay!), I just think it have more mystique if they were:
• The Stormlord • [Not Sure for the second one] • The Illuminor • The Diviner • The Traveller (he can take on the form of the Stay Puffed Marshmallow Man in Apocalypse sized games) • The Infinite
I just think that'd be more interesting than a bunch of not-Egyptian names.
ShumaGorath wrote:If it's well written I can accept that.
Exactly.
Take the Grey Knights. In Daemon Hunter (the Dark Heresy expansion book), the Grey Knight fluff is based on the current GK Codex. It's written very well, and none of it sparks off the 'Ward Radar of Terrible Writing'. There are no Draigos, no Necron/Blood Angel BFF nonsense - just modern fluff written in a competent manner.
This new fluff could wonderfully well, and I don't mind the change of concept (other than the 'wiped out the old ones' and the 'C'Tan are now shards' part - and the fact that this will no down retcon the 'Enslaver Plague' part of the fluff). If it is written well it'll work fine. If it's written in the same 6-year-old-writing-terrible-author-self-insertion-fanfic that Matt Ward writes all his fluff in, then it will fail, no matter how good the concept.
About the only thing from all this new fluff I don't like at all is the fear. The Necrons, from original creation, feared nothing. They worshiped Death himself and were lead to battle knowing they could not die and that they were literal masters of the universe. Now they fear the Eldar and that is why they slept. Not a fan : /
It paves the way for Chaos to get it's balls back. For an age, Chaos seemed to be dramatically overshadowed in the 'big bad evil' stakes by the Tyranids and Necrons as the new and old all consuming forces in the galaxy.
The last Tyranid codex (whilst a bit poor in terms of rules) introduced weaknesses in terms of the need of the superpredator to consume or be burned up.
This retcon of the Necrons changes their position to a 'neutral evil' and allows for individual characteristics in the forces.
So, now Chaos can come back in all it's malevolent glory, with both the giant evils changed.
There was little room in the boat whilst all three were jostling, now Necrons are on their own vessel and doing their own thing.
It also means the C'Tan aren't behind everything... but it kinda gaks on all those BL novels where, say, Uriel free's the Nightbringer, or the mentions of the Emperor imprisoning the Dragon on Mars.
Guess it's just more proof that the studio gives not two gaks about BL fluff.
H.B.M.C. wrote:It also means the C'Tan aren't behind everything... but it kinda gaks on all those BL novels where, say, Uriel free's the Nightbringer, or the mentions of the Emperor imprisoning the Dragon on Mars.
Guess it's just more proof that the studio gives not two gaks about BL fluff.
Not really. It just means what was freed/fought was only a shard of the true C'tan.
I really don't like this new direction for the C'tan, they are my favourite part of the Necron fluff. I really don't believe this new rumour just because I love the Star Gods so much and doubt that GW will do so much retconning as to entirely change the purpose of the Necron race in the fluff. I love the concept of the C'tan as 'gods of order' and this supposed new direction just doesn't seem grimdark enough.
I also dislike sentiment of Necron Lords having rivalries and even fighting against each other. Again it goes againt the Necrons' theme of being the embodiment of order. And if these rumours do turn out to be true, what will happen to the Void Dragon? What will happen with the C'tans' plan to seperate the Immaterium from the Materium? I sincerely believe and hop that GW will keep the core theme of the Star Gods we know and love.
H.B.M.C. wrote:This new fluff could wonderfully well, and I don't mind the change of concept (other than the 'wiped out the old ones' and the 'C'Tan are now shards' part - and the fact that this will no down retcon the 'Enslaver Plague' part of the fluff). If it is written well it'll work fine. If it's written in the same 6-year-old-writing-terrible-author-self-insertion-fanfic that Matt Ward writes all his fluff in, then it will fail, no matter how good the concept.
There's a word missing, but i agree with this. Matt Ward's style is terrible - overcooked and cliche-ridden, with none of the sly humour of the best WH40k fluff. The GK fluff is so turgid it's unreadable. For the record, Phil Kelly is much better (he's come a long way since the decent but largely mediocre fluff he wrote for the current Orc codex). The backstory Yakface has sketched out could be very cool, provided it's done with some style.
I enjoyed the old fluff. I liked the idea that there were, at most, 4 factions of Necrons: one for each god. They woke up, they killed, they disappeared. They were mysterious and terrifying. COMMUNICATING with other races is simply abhorrant to me, apart from transmitting screams of children over TAC channels to unnerve and disrupt the enemy. How did the old codex put it? "Their's was a form that communicated clearly to any race of any age: death had come." It is the silence that is scary, IMO. It is the idea that at any time that thing on Mars might awaken and destroy the imperium. It was that very doom amongst so many others that made the universe grimdark.
Losing that lessens the threat for the entire galaxy, making it easier for space marines to be unambiguously "the good guys" and Necrons to be "just another" alien race to be bolter fodder for the glorious champions of all that is right and good in the galaxy, on par with Tyranids or Orks.
The transport itself, on further reflection, I don't seem to mind so much. If one imagines that individual transports take more power (like a strobe light flashing on and off) than one ship, it might make a bit of sense for a few small ships to cart more troops and save power...
jspyd3rx wrote:Oh man, with the lords not being ICs, that means they follow retinue rules. With a retinue of their choice apparently? This is gonna be sic.
I think it means that the Lords and Crypteks arn't. The Overlords will probably still be ICs. Can't say for sure though.
On some fluff changes, Yakface did mention a faction tomb world that still functions very much like the old style, silent robots of doom. This allows BL fluff to coincide with new codex fluff.
jspyd3rx wrote:Oh man, with the lords not being ICs, that means they follow retinue rules. With a retinue of their choice apparently? This is gonna be sic.
I think it means that the Lords and Crypteks arn't. The Overlords will probably still be ICs. Can't say for sure though.
Yes Overlords & destroyer lords (and all the named characters for that matter) are ICs.
Only regular (lesser) Lords & Crypteks are not.
jspyd3rx wrote:On some fluff changes, Yakface did mention a faction tomb world that still functions very much like the old style, silent robots of doom. This allows BL fluff to coincide with new codex fluff.
Exactly my thoughts. Basically during hibernation the Tomb World accidentally erased all the sentience from the sleeping Necrons and decided to 'take them over' and has since decided this is the way forward for the Necron race and is actively attacking other Necron Tomb Worlds to collect more bodies for the cause. Basically the only sentient brain in that whole army is the Tomb World itself (it even has given itself a name).
jspyd3rx wrote:On some fluff changes, Yakface did mention a faction tomb world that still functions very much like the old style, silent robots of doom. This allows BL fluff to coincide with new codex fluff.
Exactly my thoughts. Basically during hibernation the Tomb World accidentally erased all the sentience from the sleeping Necrons and decided to 'take them over' and has since decided this is the way forward for the Necron race and is actively attacking other Necron Tomb Worlds to collect more bodies for the cause. Basically the only sentient brain in that whole army is the Tomb World itself (it even has given itself a name).
You mean, like, a living planet? Holy hell, that's cool.
Hmm... Well, it's not Shakespeare. But I'm a fan of "rescued" plot so I have to say they've done a pretty good job with what they had to work with.
It's funny, some Necrons might end up being one of the sanest factions in the game if they're now fighting for territory.
On one hand, I like that C'tan have been changed. The whole, "We have an all-powerful entity on our side" was kind of silly. I'm disappointed that some of the mind-bending weirdness of them seems to have gone by the wayside. I'm especially disappointed that at best now there can only be a shard of the Dragon on Mars. The sinister element that maybe not all of the Imperium was truly on the same side was one of the best background changes made to the game. I guess they had to water that down for the kiddies.
But there is the intriguing possibility that C'tan could be used in other ways. Perhaps there are shards out there that are still unclaimed. What happens when orks get ahold of one? What about Tau? What about Eldar? What about a human mercenary team? What if several shards of the same C'tan come together? Can they re-merge?
One could make a good narrative campaign where several factions compete to capture a shard of a C'tan. And throwing a bone to Alatioc is really nice. After they ended up the Eldar everyone hates after their Craftworld codex disruption table, it's nice to see them get something neat. I hope when the next Eldar codex gets done we'll see the role of Rangers expanded. Is it too much to hope to see them carrying expandable fighting pikes as they scurry around on secret missions to defeat an unknowable evil?
H.B.M.C. wrote:With each of Yak's update I see more and more things that don't have a model. Not good.
I think this is to be expected, with a 7 year gap between the last codex. If they stagger the releases like the Dark Eldar, it's not a bad thing at all. They didn't have everything at release, but they got a 1.5 and a 2.0 wave not long after. Thereis nothing wrong at all if they do that.
I mean, for all intents and purposes, it's almost like a brand new army with such a long gap.
Deathly Angel wrote:I really don't like this new direction for the C'tan, they are my favourite part of the Necron fluff.
Because, really, they were the only part with personality... What else was there to truly grow attached to? Besides, the old fluff felt like they were just robo-Nids. At least now they have a distinct fluff that separates them from the other races.
Sasori wrote:I think this is to be expected, with a 7 year gap between the last codex. If they stagger the releases like the Dark Eldar, it's not a bad thing at all. They didn't have everything at release, but they got a 1.5 and a 2.0 wave not long after. Thereis nothing wrong at all if they do that.
I mean, for all intents and purposes, it's almost like a brand new army with such a long gap.
On the other hand, when the Necrons came out last time (their previous - and actually their first - Codex) everything in it got a model. Everything.
I just fear going back to the land of 2nd Ed, a place which all Tyranid players currently inhabit, where a Codex is full of nice ideas for units, and only about half of them have models. This new stuff is great - don't get me wrong - but I wish they wouldn't put stuff in there if we're not going to get a model for it. That includes stacks of useless special characters.
Sasori wrote:I think this is to be expected, with a 7 year gap between the last codex. If they stagger the releases like the Dark Eldar, it's not a bad thing at all. They didn't have everything at release, but they got a 1.5 and a 2.0 wave not long after. Thereis nothing wrong at all if they do that.
I mean, for all intents and purposes, it's almost like a brand new army with such a long gap.
On the other hand, when the Necrons came out last time (their previous - and actually their first - Codex) everything in it got a model. Everything.
I just fear going back to the land of 2nd Ed, a place which all Tyranid players currently inhabit, where a Codex is full of nice ideas for units, and only about half of them have models. This new stuff is great - don't get me wrong - but I wish they wouldn't put stuff in there if we're not going to get a model for it. That includes stacks of useless special characters.
Yeah, but in total the codex has about 12 different Models?
Don't get me wrong, I understand where you are coming from, and I FEEL the pain for Tyranids. I just don't think it would be possible to provide a model for everything in the first wave, since the first Army was so small, expanding it be larger is going to create gaps. Now of course, I don't want to end up left in the void like my Tyranids, but I think if they follow what they did with the Dark Eldar, it would be perfectly acceptable.
Sasori wrote:I think this is to be expected, with a 7 year gap between the last codex. If they stagger the releases like the Dark Eldar, it's not a bad thing at all. They didn't have everything at release, but they got a 1.5 and a 2.0 wave not long after. Thereis nothing wrong at all if they do that.
I mean, for all intents and purposes, it's almost like a brand new army with such a long gap.
On the other hand, when the Necrons came out last time (their previous - and actually their first - Codex) everything in it got a model. Everything.
I just fear going back to the land of 2nd Ed, a place which all Tyranid players currently inhabit, where a Codex is full of nice ideas for units, and only about half of them have models. This new stuff is great - don't get me wrong - but I wish they wouldn't put stuff in there if we're not going to get a model for it. That includes stacks of useless special characters.
The dark eldar didn't have even half of their units in their first white dwarf. I wouldn't worry about missing figures aside from possibly some special characters.
As long as 80-90% of the units have models, I think I'll be happy. I don't mind a handful of characters not having unique models initially - as long as it's a small handful - because you can at least convert such things. But if they leave out a core unit... bleeh. I don't want to be Tervi-gone'd :(
ShumaGorath wrote:The dark eldar didn't have even half of their units in their first white dwarf. I wouldn't worry about missing figures aside from possibly some special characters.
Yeah but Shummy the DE were a complete re-release of their entire race - a complete and total redesign of their entire structure and character. What they've done to the Necrons certainly is different to what they were before, but it's more of a lateral shift than the complete overhaul that the DE got. That and some of the things that weren't released right away (like the Ravager) were previewed early on, and they talked about upcoming release 'waves' with the new DE models, and how everything would come eventually.
And now the DE pretty much have everything in their book other than that Bomber and a few special chars.
Unless, of course, you're talking about the original DE release. I honestly don't remember much about that, so correct me if I'm mistaken.
ShumaGorath wrote:The dark eldar didn't have even half of their units in their first white dwarf. I wouldn't worry about missing figures aside from possibly some special characters.
Yeah but Shummy the DE were a complete re-release of their entire race - a complete and total redesign of their entire structure and character. What they've done to the Necrons certainly is different to what they were before, but it's more of a lateral shift than the complete overhaul that the DE got. That and some of the things that weren't released right away (like the Ravager) were previewed early on, and they talked about upcoming release 'waves' with the new DE models, and how everything would come eventually.
And now the DE pretty much have everything in their book other than that Bomber and a few special chars.
Unless, of course, you're talking about the original DE release. I honestly don't remember much about that, so correct me if I'm mistaken.
I'm not too worried about the losses. The IG weren't missing much after a bit of time, one or two tank varients that are fairly easy to convert. The DE got their entire line quickly. Are the grey knights missing anything at all? The wolf wolves are missing their stupidest unit and the blood bloods aren't missing anything that I'm aware of. The nids are a special case at this point and there is little similar between that release and this.
yakface wrote:
Exactly my thoughts. Basically during hibernation the Tomb World accidentally erased all the sentience from the sleeping Necrons and decided to 'take them over' and has since decided this is the way forward for the Necron race and is actively attacking other Necron Tomb Worlds to collect more bodies for the cause. Basically the only sentient brain in that whole army is the Tomb World itself (it even has given itself a name).
This guy should get together with the Hivemind and bring about the biotechnological singularity.
ShumaGorath wrote:The dark eldar didn't have even half of their units in their first white dwarf. I wouldn't worry about missing figures aside from possibly some special characters.
Yeah but Shummy the DE were a complete re-release of their entire race - a complete and total redesign of their entire structure and character. What they've done to the Necrons certainly is different to what they were before, but it's more of a lateral shift than the complete overhaul that the DE got. That and some of the things that weren't released right away (like the Ravager) were previewed early on, and they talked about upcoming release 'waves' with the new DE models, and how everything would come eventually.
And now the DE pretty much have everything in their book other than that Bomber and a few special chars.
Unless, of course, you're talking about the original DE release. I honestly don't remember much about that, so correct me if I'm mistaken.
I would say this is pretty close, since it seems like there may only be about 4 usable models for the new release. (Monolith, Warriors, Destroyers, C'tan, Possibly Scarabs)
And, to my Knowledge, the first Dark Eldar Release had
Staggered along the way were
Razorwing
The 4 Court of the Archon Models
So I think, if we include the 4-5 Models we can still use, and the 9 new ones we have, we are fairly on Par for a doable army, if they do what they did with the Dark Eldar.
I don't mind the Necrons gaining personality at all or the variety of worlds and their traditions. I greatly dislike the nerfing of the C'Tan in the fluff.
ShumaGorath wrote:I'm not too worried about the losses. The IG weren't missing much after a bit of time, one or two tank varients that are fairly easy to convert. The DE got their entire line quickly. Are the grey knights missing anything at all? The wolf wolves are missing their stupidest unit and the blood bloods aren't missing anything that I'm aware of. The nids are a special case at this point and there is little similar between that release and this.
And the Orks don't count because the Orks are always missing things.
I 'spose it's less the fact that there aren't models, but more the case of not knowing if there ever will be a model. That's what I mean about it being like 2nd Ed. In 3rd and most of 4th you could reasonably assume that if it was in your Codex, you'd get a model for it (Orks notwithstanding for the aforementioned reason), either because there wasn't much new stuff to release (either because a lot of your models are cross-Codex, the Marines being a good example of this, or were already out, like the Eldar), or because a lot of your models could be used for all sorts of different squad types (Marines again, plus Guard as well) or because all your models were released in one go at the time of your Codex (Necrons and Tau - the odd special character being an exception to this, as Special Chars always seem to be). There was the odd exception to this of course - the Defiler was held back for the Eye of Terror release - but most of the time you'd get your Codex, get your models, and that'd be it. No Tervigon situation.
But now? I'm just not sure. Call me a broken record, but I just don't trustGW to follow through on every unit. They change horses so many times during every race they run, that while their intent right now might be to have a full model release for Necrons, who's to say they won't lose interest and move onto Black Temparls or a revamped Tau or whatever next?
Aduro wrote:I don't mind the Necrons gaining personality at all or the variety of worlds and their traditions. I greatly dislike the nerfing of the C'Tan in the fluff.
It looks like it may leave room for some Forgeworld stuff though. Perhaps they can do a Full powered C'tan. If the current ones are so powerful and just shards, it would make sense for a Fully powered C'tan to stomp the yard in Apocalypse.
Aduro wrote:I don't mind the Necrons gaining personality at all or the variety of worlds and their traditions. I greatly dislike the nerfing of the C'Tan in the fluff.
It looks like it may leave room for some Forgeworld stuff though. Perhaps they can do a Full powered C'tan. If the current ones are so powerful and just shards, it would make sense for a Fully powered C'tan to stomp the yard in Apocalypse.
Aduro wrote:I don't mind the Necrons gaining personality at all or the variety of worlds and their traditions. I greatly dislike the nerfing of the C'Tan in the fluff.
It looks like it may leave room for some Forgeworld stuff though. Perhaps they can do a Full powered C'tan. If the current ones are so powerful and just shards, it would make sense for a Fully powered C'tan to stomp the yard in Apocalypse.
Finally a Necron Titan-equivalent?
That'd be my guess, too. Imagine it: The old Nightbringer model bringing down Warhound after Warhound.
It paves the way for Chaos to get it's balls back. For an age, Chaos seemed to be dramatically overshadowed in the 'big bad evil' stakes by the Tyranids and Necrons as the new and old all consuming forces in the galaxy.
The last Tyranid codex (whilst a bit poor in terms of rules) introduced weaknesses in terms of the need of the superpredator to consume or be burned up.
This retcon of the Necrons changes their position to a 'neutral evil' and allows for individual characteristics in the forces.
So, now Chaos can come back in all it's malevolent glory, with both the giant evils changed.
Not so fast - we have yet to see how many daemon primarchs get curbstomped in the fluff section.
It's weird to see Ward do something constructive. I really should hate this, especially stuff like the Necrons trading with other species... But I honestly can't.
It's clear that the Silent King is Ward's Necron Lord from his old army. Seriously, he is introduced in a completely different codex as almost a "Look, it's my baby!" moment. Then comes along the Necron codex, and he's suddenly the messianic figure of the whole Necron species, the one hero in a midst of villains. I can't object to Ward's inserted character; if I had the chance to write the Necron codex, I'd probably put in a moment involving mine.
Oh well... At least the fluff for my own army still works, since my army's lord is crazy from stasis and wants to become a C'tan (No, he doesn't realize that's impossible).
H.B.M.C. wrote:That's kinda been my point in this whole thing.
There are two GW's:
1. The GW that comes up with the concepts. 2. The GW that executes those concepts.
Sadly the latter GW is often really bad at doing what the former GW comes up with.
*cue Law & Order theme*
I laughed out loud because that flowed perfectly through my brain, Law & Order opening voice and everything. +1 mate. Anyway, my two cents, I love the changes and the new line... except the Flayed Ones... those are terribad.
For those that are missing the 'mindless automaton' fluff, this new fluff still provides the opportunity for you to do that!
You can play a Tomb World force that has just woken up, and had some 'affliction' (as mentioned by Yakface) while they were asleep and now they are just mindless killing machines.
It's all there. And I like it. I just hope it is well written. (But I won't be building a 'Cron army, I've enough on my hands)
feth you Mat Ward, you sold me Necrons. And I need another army like I need a hole in the head.
yakface wrote:Okay, with the book's release date rapidly approaching, let's pull back the curtain on the codex a bit. First off some (rather important) background notes:
And as for totally destroying the background of the C'Tan, the codex does allude to the fact that there are lots of unaccounted for C'Tan shards still allegedly cast around the galaxy. The Necron are always trying to hunt them down and imprison them (in pocket dimension prisons), but this does still leave the door totally wide open for a shard of 'The Dragon' to be on Mars and for shards of 'The Deceiver' to have done all the crazy things that's been written about him in novels. Essentially, the full power C'Tan were massively, massively powerful, and the 'shard' versions of them are closer to the idea of what we had in the last codex anyway (something that can be killed/banished on a battlefield).
Loving it. The C'tan in the first book were pwerful, but nothing like the fluff suggested. Having them as shards of the C'tan makes a lot more sense.
Sasori wrote:It looks like it may leave room for some Forgeworld stuff though. Perhaps they can do a Full powered C'tan. If the current ones are so powerful and just shards, it would make sense for a Fully powered C'tan to stomp the yard in Apocalypse.
A full powered C'tan being useable in Apocalypse would still be nerfing the C'tan.
PS: Necrons and Blood Angels being buddies is real? EFF You matt ward seriously...
Of course it was real; it was already in the BA codex. At least now that stupid scenario is believable now.
I know people don't like the C'tan getting weakened, but come on, the fact that a living god was a playable character was just a bad idea from the start. Now that it turns out we have been fighting shards of their true power this whole time, it makes the fluff and actual game play make sense. Oh, and don't forget, The Emperor got in a fist fight with The Void Dragon and pimp slapped him into the center of Mars. Doing that to a weakened shard instead of a giant ball of invincible energy is easier to swallow
So now that everyone can agree that these guys are Tomb Kings in space from fluff to models, the debate is resting on whether that is a good thing. Well, let me put it this way: A race advanced enough to create faster than light travel, metal that instantly regenerates itself Terminator 2 style, and general non-warp-based teleportation just doesn't seem right having their vehicles manned by multiple guys on control panels. Especially exposed such as they are. Being exposed like that means that the Necrons built these things AFTER they all got turned, because putting frailer-than-human lifeforms on those war vehicles would be pure suicide. From this we can safely conjecture that the Necrons in all their wisdom decided it would be a good idea to have the disconnect of a control panel interface as opposed to the artificial intelligence approach that we've seen them use up until now. The monolith ran on an AI. Scarabs ran on little AIs. Wraiths ran on AI. Tomb Spyders ran on AIs. None of them had to be piloted by a necron saddled on top of them pressing buttons on some kind of interface screen.
So with all that said, we can conclude that their technological prominence is being revoked with this update. The new Necrons will be a race of space egyptians that just got lucky by finding some C'Tan one day that they really only took what they needed from and for the most part abandoned. They are no longer as powerful in fluff as they were. They're just...a nuisance now.
omerakk wrote:Oh, and don't forget, The Emperor got in a fist fight with The Void Dragon and pimp slapped him into the center of Mars. Doing that to a weakened shard instead of a giant ball of invincible energy is easier to swallow
It's the God-Emperor of Mankind. If you don't like him doing awesome things, go play some other game more suited to your sensibilities, like Solitaire.
Actually, if you read the story, not the marinegasm fanfics, the emperor was getting his gold-plated ass kicked by a weakened and wounded Dragon, before he spotted a weak spot to strike at. He shut it down, but couldn't kill it. He actually said it was beyond his power to do so.
Now with the new fluff making that a shard of a true ctan, weakened and wounded, BiG E isn't looking that impressive, compared to an unfractured Ctan
I suppose the big difference I see in this release is the what seems to be a greater number of plastic kits compared to the dark eldar. Dark eldar ended up with 4 fail cast kits where the necrons are maybe sitting at one ( flayed ones?). Necrons kits include more dual role kits which reduce the number of SKUs needed to fill out a line. Dark eldar got one obvious dual role kit in the talos/ chronos and I suppose the warrior wytch boxes technically fill out 2 slots but not really because warriors don't come with the weapon options trueborn get.
My point, I think this is the best initial release I have seen in recent years and am excited about how this may affect future codex releases.
Ascalam wrote:Actually, if you read the story, not the marinegasm fanfics, the emperor was getting his gold-plated ass kicked by a weakened and wounded Dragon, before he spotted a weak spot to strike at. He shut it down, but couldn't kill it. He actually said it was beyond his power to do so.
Now with the new fluff making that a shard of a true ctan, weakened and wounded, BiG E isn't looking that impressive, compared to an unfractured Ctan
The fluff doesn't sound like it is reducing the Dragon to just being a shard of the C'Tan itself, it still makes since for the emperor to have fought the weakened C'Tan itself and that is what he imprisoned on mars. The 'shards' the fluff refers to that the Necrons are now hunting sounds like the fragmented semi-sentient pieces of the Necrodermos that the C'tan were able to walk in the physical with. It now also makes since for Ferrus Manus to have dueled with the fragment of a C'tan instead of choking and actual god to death and killing it by sticking a star god into lava. That was interesting but never really made since, at all.
Kendo wrote:I suppose the big difference I see in this release is the what seems to be a greater number of plastic kits compared to the dark eldar. Dark eldar ended up with 4 fail cast kits where the necrons are maybe sitting at one ( flayed ones?). Necrons kits include more dual role kits which reduce the number of SKUs needed to fill out a line. Dark eldar got one obvious dual role kit in the talos/ chronos and I suppose the warrior wytch boxes technically fill out 2 slots but not really because warriors don't come with the weapon options trueborn get.
My point, I think this is the best initial release I have seen in recent years and am excited about how this may affect future codex releases.
This trend seemed to have started with the Grey Knights, as far as I Can remember. Since they could make Purifiers/Interceptors/Purgation/Strike as well as the Terminator Kit makeing HQs/Paladins/Terminators.
This continued in Fantasy with the Multiple Duel Kit Tomb kings. Necrosphinx/Warsphinx and the Stalkers/Necropolis Knights. Also happend with Ogres Thundertusk/stonehorn and Ironblaster/Scraplauncher. In other words, this seems to be the Direction GW is going, and It's really great in my eyes. It allows them to release a lot more at once, which is good for everyone.
And as far as Finecast, Looks like the two special characters, the Necron Overlord, and the Flayed ones are finecast, would be my guess. The Deathmarks could be too, but It's also possible they could share the kit with the Immortals.
I think this is going to be a great release, and I've got high hopes for the content in the actual codex.
Sasori wrote: The Deathmarks could be too, but It's also possible they could share the kit with the Immortals.
I'm guessing that they do, as far as I can tell they seem to share the same leg poses. If that is the case that's going to be a packed box, they even have a different shoulder pad/evil robot popped collar thing than the Immortals.
Aduro wrote:I don't mind the Necrons gaining personality at all or the variety of worlds and their traditions. I greatly dislike the nerfing of the C'Tan in the fluff.
It looks like it may leave room for some Forgeworld stuff though. Perhaps they can do a Full powered C'tan. If the current ones are so powerful and just shards, it would make sense for a Fully powered C'tan to stomp the yard in Apocalypse.
Who's it going to work for? According to what Yak said the Necrons hunt and destroy C'Tan so I doubt it would work for them.
Aduro wrote:I don't mind the Necrons gaining personality at all or the variety of worlds and their traditions. I greatly dislike the nerfing of the C'Tan in the fluff.
It looks like it may leave room for some Forgeworld stuff though. Perhaps they can do a Full powered C'tan. If the current ones are so powerful and just shards, it would make sense for a Fully powered C'tan to stomp the yard in Apocalypse.
Who's it going to work for? According to what Yak said the Necrons hunt and destroy C'Tan so I doubt it would work for them.
No Idea, Perhaps they could do something like combine multiple shards and keep them under control? Have to read the new codex before I could get any Ideas.
I despise retconning, especially when it is this drastic. The fluff isn't even Necron-y anymore. Kind of makes me sad that I spent so much money on my 'Crons.
I honestly don't mind the changes ward made to the codex. I think they both have things to offer, but I do think they made the right choice altering their backstory like this. It really does give them a way to be in much more intricate story lines that lean away from we want to harvest you like corn.
I really like most of the models I've seen minus the flayed ones. I really preferred the old ones.
Hopefully people at the FLGS get into Necrons so I can steal the extra bladed weapons from the Not Pariahs to replace the blades on my Bane Knights' halberds.
Ascalam wrote:Actually, if you read the story, not the marinegasm fanfics, the emperor was getting his gold-plated ass kicked by a weakened and wounded Dragon, before he spotted a weak spot to strike at. He shut it down, but couldn't kill it. He actually said it was beyond his power to do so.
Now with the new fluff making that a shard of a true ctan, weakened and wounded, BiG E isn't looking that impressive, compared to an unfractured Ctan
+1 to this. It helps make the Emperor an actual believable character unlike the version Alex seems to like where the Emperor parts the sea and snuffs out stars with his finger tips.
omerakk wrote:Of course it was real; it was already in the BA codex. At least now that stupid scenario is believable now.
I know people don't like the C'tan getting weakened, but come on, the fact that a living god was a playable character was just a bad idea from the start. Now that it turns out we have been fighting shards of their true power this whole time, it makes the fluff and actual game play make sense. Oh, and don't forget, The Emperor got in a fist fight with The Void Dragon and pimp slapped him into the center of Mars. Doing that to a weakened shard instead of a giant ball of invincible energy is easier to swallow
The solution could of been to make them avatars, like in Dawn of War. Or, you know, just not make them playable. Preferably the former since people had C'tan models, but whatever.
Also, the Void Dragon handed the Emperor his golden ass most of the fight. And was already weakened and starving while doing so.
Hm, considering current fluff...
Necrons>C'tan>>>Starving shard of a C'tan=?=Emperor>Chaos?
Also, Ferrus Manus was never stated to fight a C'tan. C'tan are not the only things made of Living Metal.
OK, it must be late because I read all these posts and still have a few questions:
1) Are C'Tan now out of the Codex as playable units?
2) Why do Necrons need transports if they teleport? Is teleporting still in the fluff?
H.B.M.C. wrote:There are only a couple of poses for the Deathmarks, so I'm thinking 5-man Failcost box. I really like them though. They look awesome.
Sniper scouts have precisely one pose and come in a plastic kit. There are plenty of plastic kits where the only three poses are look left, right, or forward.
Mezmaron wrote:OK, it must be late because I read all these posts and still have a few questions:
1) Are C'Tan now out of the Codex as playable units?
2) Why do Necrons need transports if they teleport? Is teleporting still in the fluff?
Thanks - Mez
check back tomorrow on page 15 of this thread, yak will be updating us with elite choices. Then we'll know if the rumors of c'tan being elites is true or not.
At first, I was not liking where they put the C'Tan fluff-wise. I, for one, really liked where they were in the old codex. However, remembering what yakface said about customization and character and all that, I had a realization: maybe there are some Necron Lords that DID favor the C'Tan gods; what's to stop them from trying to collect the shards and remake them? I know it sounds like the plot from Inuyasha, but darnit, that's how my Lords roll! Searching the galaxy for more shards of Nightbringer and "resurrecting" him (along with kill anything without a robot shell ). That would give him PLENTY of reason to fight other Tomb Worlds.
On another note, the flying croissant suddenly makes more sense now. Perhaps certain Lords are so vain of their own self-image, they need a chariot like vehicle to fly around in and show off, as part of their old personality from way back when.
Still not likely to buy it.
All in all, I never imagined I would say this, but... (drumroll) it sounds like Matt Ward didn't do a bad job this time (dodges projectiles from the crowd of Ward-haters). Don't get me wrong, Blood Angel buddies, Spiritual Liege, and GK still irk me to no end, but maybe he's done something decent?
Okay, getting off the
H.B.M.C. wrote:I just fear going back to the land of 2nd Ed, a place which all Tyranid players currently inhabit, where a Codex is full of nice ideas for units, and only about half of them have models. This new stuff is great - don't get me wrong - but I wish they wouldn't put stuff in there if we're not going to get a model for it. That includes stacks of useless special characters.
Maybe it's a bit too soon to be getting all worked up about this? All we've got at the moment is some leaked photos - it's a bit premature. It's obviously desirable to have models for everything from the get-go, but considering how many plastic kits that involves, it's not necessarily realistic. Better to have good units in the codex and wait for the models than to have a codex limited by having to put all the models out immediately. If we're lucky, the Necrons will get something similar to the DE treatment.
If you think this hobby is spendy, try robotics (mine) or Bass fishing (a friend's ) for paycheck destruction
That said, the robot will be on hold for a month or so if i do decide i like the new stuff. I'm 50/50 right now on selling them or buying the new shinies.
H.B.M.C. wrote:There are only a couple of poses for the Deathmarks, so I'm thinking 5-man Failcost box. I really like them though. They look awesome.
Sniper scouts have precisely one pose and come in a plastic kit. There are plenty of plastic kits where the only three poses are look left, right, or forward.
The amount of pessimism is here is strange.
Some of the rather old plastic kits like Dire Avenger, sure, you are right.
But it's not what we have seen and come to expect from newly released plastic kits by GW over the last few years. They tend to come with a great variety of bits, pieces and poses (at the expense of doing more minis per box). So one would expect plastic Deathmarks to be more varied.. e.g. one kneeling, one holding the rifle one-handed, one aiming at a point in the distance, etc.. .
The static pose they have, seem more reminiscent of minis like the DE Mandrakes, Incubi or Wracks.
Thus, it is not a question of pessimism. Nor is anyone saying that the are not plastic beyond all doubt, 100%, until hell freezes over. All it is, is based on recent experience and observation of the static poses they are presented in, that Finecast seems a real possibiity. Yet, if rumors of them being plastic are indeed true, I doubt anyone will complain.
ShumaGorath wrote:Sniper scouts have precisely one pose and come in a plastic kit. There are plenty of plastic kits where the only three poses are look left, right, or forward.
That's an exaggeration. They may be similar, but they are not all the same.
These models here:
Look at those two on the left. They are the same, a bit like the duplicates with these guys.
And the pessimism comes from three sources:
1. Change is bad!!!!!!!!!!
2. They've ruined the fluff!
3. They haven't ruined the fluff, but Ward's writing it (I slot into this category).
Mezmaron wrote:OK, it must be late because I read all these posts and still have a few questions:
1) Are C'Tan now out of the Codex as playable units?
2) Why do Necrons need transports if they teleport? Is teleporting still in the fluff?
Thanks - Mez
check back tomorrow on page 15 of this thread, yak will be updating us with elite choices. Then we'll know if the rumors of c'tan being elites is true or not.
lol so be here tommorow so yakface can confirm the rumour he started.......
They are in the Codex as an Elites unit......
Why do Space Marines use transports they can teleport (more so why the hell do they use drop pods), why do DE use transports they have the web way......
I love this reasoning like their aren't any advantages to a transport beyond movement......
And thats without the cynical GW make more money out of transports than teleportational abilities of course the other side of the cynical coin is players that part of their issue with transports is really they don't want to have to buy them......
Rumour has it that Crypteks can take VODs and I'm sure units with attached Crypteks popping around the field via DS will have their uses but so will units in dedicated transports I'd rather both options thanks.
I think the fluff is a bad move. You gave the faceless a face. You don't have to destroy the C'tan to set the necrons free. It makes no sense that the Necrons overthrew two sets of immortal beings then slept because Elves showed up. I think that the necrons had character as a whole and the new necrons are stepping away from the "grim darkness" to a more Evil Lite(tm).
On the Subject of models, I despise the new flayers, I like the sniper things, the lords appeal to me, the command barge is iffy, the ghost arc is cool though the necrons riding should look more motionless imo (don't like the leaning), the lichguard and triarchs I'm on the wall about (I think they may be a bit too showy), immortals are good cept for the running one and seriously who ever sculpted the new flayers should be skinned and worn as a cape in a move of irony. Seriously, of all the new stuff, the flayers are horrendous. The old ones had chunks of flesh on them stapled together. The new ones have rags of skin colors. Distinct lack of inspiration.
KarlPedder wrote:Why do Space Marines use transports they can teleport (more so why the hell do they use drop pods),
1. The Warp is dangerous.
2. Teleportation technology is rare and difficult to use.
3. Doesn't help you much when you're already on the ground.
4. They are a quick strike force, and orbital assaults via virtually-impossible-to-shoot-down Drop Pods is one method of attacking quickly.
5. The Warp is really frickin' dangerous!
KarlPedder wrote:why do DE use transports they have the web way......
The web way isn't everywhere. They use their vehicles to sow terror and fight as much as they are for simple movement.
Necron teleportation has nothing to do with the Warp.
KarlPedder wrote:I love this reasoning like their aren't any advantages to a transport beyond movement......
It's not about advantages. It's about logic. Necrons are the absolute masters at teleportation and phase technology. They simply zip in and zip out as they feel. Their biggest tank has a portal on the front that allows Necrons to phase in from far away. Having smaller vehicles with a similar portal would make sense. Flat-pack Ikea Necron dispensers just seems silly and archaic in comparison.
KarlPedder wrote:And thats without the cynical GW make more money out of transports than teleportational abilities of course the other side of the cynical coin is players that part of their issue with transports is really they don't want to have to buy them......
That's got nothing to do with it. A lot of us would be fine with a transport that acted more as a mobile table edge than a 'I hold ten folded up Necrons like a Rhino' style transport. It's not about just allowing Necrons to Deep Strike everywhere.
It's not about advantages. It's about logic. Necrons are the absolute masters at teleportation and phase technology. They simply zip in and zip out as they feel. Their biggest tank has a portal on the front that allows Necrons to phase in from far away. Having smaller vehicles with a similar portal would make sense. Flat-pack Ikea Necron dispensers just seems silly and archaic in comparison.
I love how you try to sell your opinion as logic it's amusing
Just add some sombreros and you are set to go.
To be honest GW have sucked me in, I just want to see how bad "he" stuffs it up. For novelty I might just buy this codex.
[Notice I referred to Him as He].
As for the models some of them look pretty good, as for the mexicrons......
It's not that your conclusions aren't logical it's more a question of how much those logical conclusions are based on your subjective interpretation of existing fluff and unit abilities.
To be the masters of teleportation and phasing tech only really requires them to have superior or even equal but more widely spread us of such technologies. It does not mean that they themselves lack any kinds of limitations in those technologies maybe their is a reason (that much like your reasons for why the SM don't all use teleporters).
Only the Monolith (their biggest vehicle as you said) is capable of utilizing the portal system.
Perhaps having a teleportation system like the monolith is too energy innefficient?
Thanatos_elNyx wrote:It would be cool if Necron Transports didn't have access points, when disembarking you are simply placed anywhere within 6" of the hull.
Well when it comes to the Portals the Necrons use in BFG. They do have better teleporters then everyone else who has them. At least on there ships. Also in Fall of Damnos the Cryptek kept teleport around like it was nothing. And finally the Necrons are the only ones who teleport without using the warp (barring a fluff change).
For the transport. Well there are many reason it would be better to ride around the battlefield then teleporting everything everywhere. For one, the Ghost Arks repair damaged Necrons. Freeing up energy that would be used to teleport them away and then back to the front.
Stonerhino wrote:For one, the Ghost Arks repair damaged Necrons. Freeing up energy that would be used to teleport them away and then back to the front.
Monoliths did that already (the abstraction being that rather than repairing it would be new Necrons stepping through the portal to join the unit).
Hell why have vehicles or soldiers or anything it would be may more fun playing Necrons if they didn't hit the table at all they can just fight the whole battle via teleportation from their tomb world.
Your turn: I teleport warheads onto the table you loose...
Or: I Teleport your army to the nearest sun you loose..
KarlPedder wrote:Only the Monolith (their biggest vehicle as you said) is capable of utilizing the portal system.
Considering that it is the only vehicle larger than the actual portal, that shouldn't be that surprising.
Personally, I would have gone with the Obelisk idea - an immobile, Deep Striking unit with a Power Matrix. For an army that teleports onto the battlefield, teleports around the battlefield, shoots people with teleporters and retreats using teleporters, it's more fitting than some DE Raider analogue.
And instead of the ValkyrieStormraven Night Scythe, I would have gone with the Wraith Dart approach, of an aircraft that uses a teleporter both to transport units and to capture victims.
Stonerhino wrote:For one, the Ghost Arks repair damaged Necrons. Freeing up energy that would be used to teleport them away and then back to the front.
Monoliths did that already (the abstraction being that rather than repairing it would be new Necrons stepping through the portal to join the unit).
They do but the monolith is not known for it's quikness.
Which has to do with... what... exactly? What would stop a transport with a portal from being quick?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
KarlPedder wrote:Hell why have vehicles or soldiers or anything it would be may more fun playing Necrons if they didn't hit the table at all they can just fight the whole battle via teleportation from their tomb world.
Your turn: I teleport warheads onto the table you loose...
Or: I Teleport your army to the nearest sun you loose..
I just dont understand people's objection to the 'Tomb Kings in SPAAAACE' thing. It's not like it directly impacts anyone as a 40k player, unless they also play Warhammer Fantasy. No one complains that Orks are Orcs in SPAAAACE, or likewise for Eldar/Dark Eldar for Elves.
And even if they are dissappointed in the current aesthetic direction, where would people like to see them headed? Bland, boring metallic skeletons? Would people dislike it if the Necrons design aesthetic suddenly went Ancient Aztec/Mayan/Incan?
Sorry, but I got annoyed when I saw someone on another forum post they were gonna quit 40k cause of this new direction in design for the Necrons, which I think are fantastic btw. Except for the Flayed Ones.
H.B.M.C. wrote:Which has to do with... what... exactly? What would stop a transport with a portal from being quick?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
KarlPedder wrote:Hell why have vehicles or soldiers or anything it would be may more fun playing Necrons if they didn't hit the table at all they can just fight the whole battle via teleportation from their tomb world.
Your turn: I teleport warheads onto the table you loose...
Or: I Teleport your army to the nearest sun you loose..
Now you're just being obstinate.
yes because you wont just accept that for all your "logic" it is still largely just your opinion which is fine with me just doesn't seem to sit well with you that your opinion doesn't encompass inherit truth...
Let’s look at it this way, not every Necron army will be fighting in the perfect conditions of full space/air superiority. Their ships may not be able to teleport them around the planet they are currently fighting on due to enemy ship actions or having been destroyed or chased off, maybe even covert insertions. Teleporting may consume huge amounts of power as well and reduce its availability to drives, shield, weapons batteries etc.
It might make a lot more sense to simple teleport your guys in fast vehicles and then they and your ships have freedom to fight they own battles, rather than one constantly requiring the resources of the other for mobility. Presumably monoliths will continue to act as ‘bridges’ from the Necron ships as with the current fluff.
From a phase out prospective, this could be viewed as an emergency system that would only be used due to extreme damage/imminent capture or destruction and not suitably for deploying large numbers of troops to the battlefield.
Also, although it would be cool from warriors etc to teleport around the board at will or even just one a game, this isn’t going to sell many transports for GW. I’m realistic that GW needs to make cash to continue providing me with my beloved 40K, so I don’t consider the transports to be a bad thing.
Thanks to Yakface for the fluff info. I was reading his post with somewhat stilted breath, but I am happy to say I really like the new direction. My favourite bit of the old fluff was the Deceivers’ covert antics around the Imperium, and I am glad that his ‘shard’ can continue with those.
As for the Ward hate, I’ve always thought his rules were very solid and diverse. The names of some of the weapons are rather uninspired ‘blood talons’, ‘blood strike missiles’ etc, but he does write a good codex rules wise. The fluff is not as outrageous as people make out, Draigo is a little silly but it hardly warrants the hating that goes on these forums. The Blood Angel and Necron ‘alliance’ just seemed logical, and I am amazed how much rage five lines of text in a codex timeline has caused.
Anyway, I’m off to eBay now to amass the largest collection of spare green rods in Europe.
Fafnir wrote:They really look way too much like Tomb Kings IN SPACE this time. Granted, they always had that vibe, but this just turns it too eleven.
Really, it just feels uninspired, and I was hoping GW would try to actually move away from that imagery.
Also, fluffwise, Pariahs were my favourite part of Necron fluff, it's a real shame to see them go. Also not fond of them losing their legion-y feel.
I pretty much felt this exactly. Too Tomb kings, too..boring. Too ugly. They just do not look correct, it's like they went from Eldritch Horror to fielding the Fruity Yummy Mummy.
KarlPedder wrote:yes because you wont just accept that for all your "logic" it is still largely just your opinion which is fine with me just doesn't seem to sit well with you that your opinion doesn't encompass inherit truth...
It's based open observed current fluff including a number of concrete (unless the new 'Dex changes them) examples. More over your attempts at why it shouldn't (your Marine and Dark Eldar examples) were utterly flawed and when I pointed that out you completely ignored that and instead decided the best thing would be to insult me.
On the whole, I like all the models, I know it seems fanboy-ish, but I like how they went for an egyptian based undead army, yeah they might be tomb kings in space, but saying that:
Eldar: High elves
Dark Eldar: Dark elves
Orkz: Orcs
Guard: Empire
Space marines: (Maybe) Brettonia knights
so you cant all out say that they are the only WHFB army in space.
IXBEHEMOTHXI wrote:On the whole, I like all the models, I know it seems fanboy-ish, but I like how they went for an egyptian based undead army, yeah they might be tomb kings in space, but saying that:
Eldar: High elves
Dark Eldar: Dark elves
Orkz: Orcs
Guard: Empire
Space marines: (Maybe) Brettonia knights
so you cant all out say that they are the only WHFB army in space.
I just wish that they went with Persian based Undead Army. That way the war against the Egyptian based Eldar would have been awesome.
BTW don't be too quick with making Mat Ward responsible for the constructive change in background . There have been early rumours that Mat asked others for help with the background and that (at least) recently Codices and army books are done in teamwork while only naming one person as author.
Also I still think, that we see a dual plastic kit Deathmarks/Immortals (look at the bodies).
• Imotekh the Stormlord (Lord of the Sau): The most powerful Necron Overlord currently. A master strategist whose nemesis is the Orks (since their random nature is the only thing that can accidentally disrupt his flawless plans).
• Nemesor Zahndrekh: Overlord damaged in the great sleep who still thinks he is flesh and blood fighting the war of secession against his brother Necrontyr. Therefore, he is one of the few Necron Lords who still fights with honor and valor towards his enemies. Has a bodyguard named Vargard Obryron.
• Illuminor Szeras: The Necrontyr who took the C'Tan's knowledge to do bio-transfer and actually made it a reality...so he's the chief architect within the Necrons for actually making the bio-transference happen. He is a master of technology and can augment D3 units in the army with an augmentation.
• Orikan the Diviner: A master astromancer (a Cryptek specializing in tech that can predict the future), he is renown for knowing what will happen and when. During the game he is able to achieve a 'powered up' state that gives him a greatly increases statline, but this boost can randomly end on any turn dropping him back down to his regular stats.
• Anrakyr the Traveller: A Necron Lord whose goal is to unite the Necron Empires again. He travels to Tomb Worlds still sleeping and kills the 'lesser' inhabitants that may live there unaware they are on a Tomb World, the 'price' for this service is to claim a tithe from the newly awakened legions. Some Necrons see him as a golden crusader others don't want reunification and would rather see him dead.
• Trazyn the Infinite: He is a Necron who woke very early and is fascinated with studying and collecting history. His tomb world is filled with secret trinkets including (I quote) 'a giant of a man clad in baroque power armor' (start your wild theories here!). He even will attack other Necron tomb worlds to capture artifacts from them that he doesn't think they deserve. He is the character that has the CC ability to pick one type of model he killed that round and inflict wounds on all models of that type in the combat.
I just hope some of these names don't survive translation:
- (Lord of the Sau) = lord of the pigs (sau) ? and imhotekh is a bit too close to imhotep..
- Zahndrekh = dental issues? ( zahn-dreck) ok it may be zandri...
one of the better parts IMO : 'a giant of a man clad in baroque power armor' = lost primarch ...
yakface wrote:
ELITES
• Deathmarks: 24" range rapid-fire AP 5 sniper unit that can choose to Deep Strike in immediately after any enemy unit arrives from Reserves (which just allows the enemy to fire at them first?)...teleporting in from a pocket dimension to target their prey. They can also mark a single unit as their 'target' which allows them to roll to wound on a 2+. Beautiful models from the pics leaked, but at the point cost listed I can't see them ever being used except to see those great models on the table. Can be transported on a Night Scythe.
• Lychguard: Traditionally these have been the bodyguards for the Overlords. Come standard with Warscythes (+2 Strength Power weapon) and can replace them with Hyperphase swords (power weapon) and Dispersion Shields (the thing that gives them a 4+ invuln and reflects enemy shooting). I made a mistake before. The Shields don't only reflect enemy shooting within 6", they reflect all enemy shooting, but only against enemy units who are within 6" of them (they reflect saved wounds, they don't affect blast/templates, for example). Can be transported on a Night Scythe.
• Triarch Praetorians: These used to be effectively the 'police' (my term) of the main Necron ruler (the last of which was the Silent King) to help enforce his will onto the Lords of the Empire. They are known to respect great warriors and honor valor and have sometimes ordered Necron Overlords to stop attacking a foe they deemed worthy of respect (much to the Lord's chagrin). They are Jump Infantry with a 6" AP2 S5 weapon. They can swap that out for Void Blades (a weapon with Rending and the same Entriopic ability that Scarabs have) and Particle Casters (a pistol weapon). No transport option.
• C'Tan Shard: Must take 2 of the 11 listed ability choices that basically shape what kind of C'Tan shard you're fielding. No ability can be taken more than once in the army (even if you take 3 C'Tan shards in the army). The statline is slightly less impressive than previous incarnations of the C'Tan, but still pretty decent. Also has Eternal Warrior and ignores all terrain penalties. Still explodes D6" when they die. Fluff-wise, these are shards effectively controlled by the Necron (even though they have most shards locked away in pocket dimensions). Each shard represents only a portion of the power and consciousness of the C'Tan and therefore in battle the C'Tan may not even think to utilize some of its power because the portion of it that knows it has 'X' power simply isn't there. This is essentially what explains why they only have access to 2 special abilities in battle.
• Flayed Ones: 3 Attacks base (and no additional CC weapons). Can infiltrate or Deep Strike. No transport options.
• Triarch Stalker: Concept Sketch shows a Triarch Praetorian sitting in an open-topped cockpit that is riding on a Necron-style giant almost scorpion walker set of legs. Very cool looking IMHO. Has a variable heat ray (which can be upgraded to a couple of other weapons) that can either be fired as a template or as an Assault 2 S8 24" Heavy2 Melta weapon. Has a Targeting relay which means that any enemy unit hit by the Stalker gets a counter placed by it that allows all other Necron units shooting at the same unit that phase to count as being twin-linked. AV11 & open-topped, but does have Quantum shielding & Living Metal.
TROOPS
COMING SOON, CHECK BACK HERE...
Deathmarks deserve a place if they are not f..casted, even its just for fun or painting.
The lychguard (tombguard) and the praetorians ( jumptroops ) are the 2 options id be interested in fielding as flailed ones and shards o'c'tan aren't so hot IMO.
Plus , where are the #ushabti# in spase? no 40mm base creature?
H.B.M.C. wrote:Mexicrons.
And that is my new favourite word.
Good choice
AlexHolker wrote:
Personally, I would have gone with the Obelisk idea - an immobile, Deep Striking unit with a Power Matrix. For an army that teleports onto the battlefield, teleports around the battlefield, shoots people with teleporters and retreats using teleporters, it's more fitting than some DE Raider analogue.
And instead of the ValkyrieStormraven Night Scythe, I would have gone with the Wraith Dart approach, of an aircraft that uses a teleporter both to transport units and to capture victims.
Were actually at HQ/elite/troops yet, looking forward to heavy support.
Still prefer the wraith dart idea, over any "skimmers for everyone" approach.
H.B.M.C. wrote:That's where the Wardisms start folks - silly names. After that it's all Blood Angel BFF's and heart-carving classes.
Yeah, 'cause it was Mat Ward who started that trend.
Tenehuini, anyone?
Sly Marbo?
Lion El'Johnson?
Nork Deddog and I are going to head out to Planet Birmingham. If we run out of promethium we'll just stop at our local Adeptus fuel station and while there pick up some fething Lho Sticks.
I wonder why they didn't make the Flayed ones Troops. It sounds like a no brainer to take the Lycheguard/Praetorians if you want a decent CC unit, and the Triach Walker Sounds really fantastic.
I really used to like the Necrons. I was a fan of how different they were. But there was just too much rewrite here.
First. I think that the Ark transport that looks like a Norse rowboat looks silly. And of some the other vehicles shown also look a far cry from the current Necron's style. I may try to figure out some way of making it look like there is a gateway in the back. Fits the old fluff better. Everyone has transports now (except the nids) so why add another one that doesn't fit with established fluff. Unless... you rewrite the old fluff.
Digression. I understand that the 90's Necrons looked much different, but those were ugly as well. If I remember, they didn't last long either.
I don't know who came up with many of these units, but they remind me of the Grey Knights' and Blood Angels' codex.
Examples?
Destroyers. Currently they look like jetbikes. They are awesome as jetbikes with a weapon on em. I would have liked it if they were mostly unchanged. No need for preferred enemy or Jump Infantry. Another example would be wraiths. Now they have legs? Those are supposed to be the crazy guys that would make sense being jump infantry. But legs? The changes range from unnecessary and just bad ideas.
This was, in my opinion, an unnecessary rewrite. The rules could have been fixed or expanded. Instead they were rewritten. And the rewrite makes the necrons look worse, not better in my opinion. The Dark Eldar was a great codex. I was hoping for a Necron codex in the same quality. It isn't looking good.
Unless they have seriously nerfed the Immortals blaster, why would you take the carbine?
The blaster is now a rapid fire weapon, which means you're only getting a single shot beyond 12" with it (and only if you stand still). The Tesla Carbine is a 24" assault 1 weapon, which generates an extra hit on a 'to hit' roll of '6', but has no AP value (whereas the blaster has an AP of 4, and the 'gauss' ability, of course).
Unless they have seriously nerfed the Immortals blaster, why would you take the carbine?
The blaster is now a rapid fire weapon, which means you're only getting a single shot beyond 12" with it (and only if you stand still). The Tesla Carbine is a 24" assault 1 weapon, which generates an extra hit on a 'to hit' roll of '6', but has no AP value (whereas the blaster has an AP of 4, and the 'gauss' ability, of course).
So I can certainly see some utility for either.
Rapid fire on the blasters kind of hurts, but the Tesla Carbine seems rather nifty.
EDIT: Quick question, does the recover D3 Models from the Ghost Ark, only apply to Warriors, or any type of Model?
Very cool. One thing I noticed is the continued trend of giving special characters a ton of rules. The Stormlord sounds powerful (his points are probably 250ish). His ability to control night fight and his ability to seize on a 4+ are a powerful combination.
Night fight means most armies will need to close the gap with the neurons quickly. His ability to seize on a 4+ means that when you go first you have to set up cautiously in case you don't get to go first. Those are two opposite situations that the enemy needs to prepare for which makes preparing for any one of them much more difficult.
It also appears the barge with the str 9 ap1 large blast gun fits in with the Stormlord's abilities. They can hide with night fight until they maneuver for a good shot and hit the solar pulse to surgically strike the enemy. Or if the Stormlord seizes the initiative, then those 3 large blast weapons can do a lot of damage to the enemy if they set up aggressively.
SoloFalcon1138 wrote:Most of the people annoyed by the "new" direction of the Necrons to being the Tomb Kings in Space obviousy forget this little jewel
It was nice when the Necrons moved away from the obvious source material, now they move back.
Though with the multiple tombs fluff, it does mean that the old style necrons do have a place alongside the new, they can just be a different tomb.
Howard A Treesong wrote:
It was nice when the Necrons moved away from the obvious source material, now they move back.
Though with the multiple tombs fluff, it does mean that the old style necrons do have a place alongside the new, they can just be a different tomb.
Exactly. It doesn't move "back". It moves to accommodate both. The new background gives plenty of justification both for gaudy, baroque Necron armies and for very minimalist, robo-Legion Necron armies. Respective fans of either can now build both. Both are accommodated by the Background. Both can equally be justified.
Ok, the one 40k race I've never found anything I like in are crons......... until now. My biggest issue has always been every single figure looks like the last. I hate to say this but I'm loving the new look models.
I am cautiously optimistic, though I lament the fact that every army seems to be destined to be fast-mech capable in the modern metagame. I'm not sure why they feel narrowing the differences between armies is a good thing.
headrattle wrote:Maybe I will just wait for Tau to be redone.
Don't bother, I suspect every new Tau unit will have those pointy hats that rice farmers wear and power katanas, and the new vehicles will be floating pagodas with guns and oddly-exposed pilots.
Not that I mind the new Necrons much, like I said, but...
Agamemnon2 wrote:I am cautiously optimistic, though I lament the fact that every army seems to be destined to be fast-mech capable in the modern metagame. I'm not sure why they feel narrowing the differences between armies is a good thing.
At over 100 points, i think transports should be few and far between with the crons, 2-3 max in anything under 2k points games.
Quick question Yak, are the royal courts counted as a HQ choice or are they similar to a command squad in the SM codex, not using an FOC slot?
DarthDiggler wrote:...will need to close the gap with the neurons quickly.
As a bioscientist, this typo amuses me greatly. On a more related note, I'm already plotting awful, awful things that can be done by abusing the cover of darkness...
Agamemnon2 wrote:I am cautiously optimistic, though I lament the fact that every army seems to be destined to be fast-mech capable in the modern metagame. I'm not sure why they feel narrowing the differences between armies is a good thing.
At over 100 points, i think transports should be few and far between with the crons, 2-3 max in anything under 2k points games.
Quick question Yak, are the royal courts counted as a HQ choice or are they similar to a command squad in the SM codex, not using an FOC slot?
Yeah, unless the points change in the final release of the codex, these are definitely some pricey transports compared to most other armies...but then again most other armies don't have transports with effective AV13 until they suffer their first damage, I suppose.
And yes, the Royal Court does not take up a HQ slot but may only be taken one per each Overlord (including the named ones) you take in the army.
Is it going to be fluffy to have more then one Overlord? From what you've described it seems like there is 1 Overlord for every tombworld or even a few worlds. Is it instead just 1-3 Overlords ruling these various sectors or worlds?
tetrisphreak wrote:Hey yak, does quantum shielding ignore Lance weapons? Just curious, thanks!
There is no mention and based on the wording I'm leaning towards thinking that Lance weapons work just fine against Quantum Shielding...well, except that they'd still count as being AV12 until their first damage roll, which is better than nothing!
Well, looks like I'll have to abandon my army of Crons loyal to the Void dragon...
I really don't like what they have to the fluff. I prefer the old stuff. More threatening.
Well, at least they still hate the Warp.
Azure wrote:Is it going to be fluffy to have more then one Overlord? From what you've described it seems like there is 1 Overlord for every tombworld or even a few worlds. Is it instead just 1-3 Overlords ruling these various sectors or worlds?
Each Tomb World has an Overlord, but there are clearly little mini empires that are made up of several Tomb Worlds, which are presumably controlled overall by a really powerful Overlord (such as the named character overlords).
So I think it would be perfectly fluffy to have two Overlords working together (with one presumably being the Overlord for the whole Empire and the other just being the ruler of a single world within the Empire).
And besides, there seems to be plenty of fluff indicating that Necron Empires/Overlords ally with each other when their causes intersect.
I find it hard to believe GW would miss the opportunity to release a plastic scorpion-like walker in the first wave. Yeah, Tervigon bla bla, Nids already had a bunch of large walkers so another one wouldn't make a difference. The Triarch Stalker sounds like something unique not just for the Crons but in general 40K (with the closest relative being the Defiler) and could have been a sales drive for the release. As it is, no matter how good the Arc looks, in the end it's just a fancy looking Rider.
Don't get me wrong, I love just about everything shown and what little issues I have with the models can be easily fixed with minuscule conversions, but I was really looking forward to Crons' counterpart to the Dreadknight/Cronos.
, though I don't see why that can't be fixed by cutting off the legs and attaching the lower spine to the vehicle like destroyers, or removing them altogether. 
*
. The second Lord looks too static, and the crests can be trimmed off easily.
! Those are great looking models, and i love the deathmark models.
Finally a Necron Titan-equivalent? 
no 40mm base creature?