Recalculating!: Countless algorithms processing at lightning fast speed give the MCM infinite options to choose from in the space of a micro second.
The MCM may reroll one D6 per phase.
Version 2.0: The MCM is constantly upgrading itself. It has developed defenses to weakness based of field tests that are far more effective than previous iterations of hardware.
The MCM is immune to the bonus effects of Melta and Lance weaponry.
For offensive/defensive powers, how about these-
Advanced Targeting Relay: Using its vast communications array, the MCM can direct the flow of battle unlike any mere biological strategist.
All targets hit by the MCM have Twin Linking against them for the remainder of the game as long as the MCM is not in Emergency Shutdown mode, or until the MCM is destroyed.
Emergency Shutdown: The MCM is capable of accurately assessing a threat well before hostile targets are even aware they were in any position to threaten the behemoth. In an attempt to preempt its destruction, the MCM devotes all of its resources to self preservation.
At the beginning of each of your turns, you have the option to activate Emergency Shutdown mode. The MCM loses the ability to use any of its weapons, as well as the Infinity Gate, but in return gains Quantum Shielding (effectively raising its armor value to 16!)
So we give it the options for one of: a Chronometron, buffed ceramite plating, buffed targeting relay or shields. Nice idea it would work certainly and allows for more flexibility. Don't suppose anyone has been writing these ideas and collating them into a dex so we dont have to trawl through the thread for all the changes, a lot has changed since skoffs' one on pg 2
Mitranekh the Omniscient wrote: Don't suppose anyone has been writing these ideas and collating them into a dex so we dont have to trawl through the thread for all the changes, a lot has changed since skoffs' one on pg 2
... uh-oh.
*sigh*
Looks like we're going to have to decide whose job that's going to be.
Replace particle whip with the following; (option)
Targeting scanner
Range; 36, Str 1, AP - twin linked, targeting array, location matrix, skyfire, interceptor
Targeting array (as the triarch stalker) after any hit all other friendly units treat their weapons as twin linked against this target until the start of your next shooting phase.
Location matrix; after any hit friendly units may ignore shrouded, stealth, or benefits of night fighting when applied to the target.
silentone2k wrote: Replace particle whip with the following; (option)
Targeting scanner
Range; 36, Str 1, AP - twin linked, targeting array, location matrix, skyfire, interceptor
Targeting array (as the triarch stalker) after any hit all other friendly units treat their weapons as twin linked against this target until the start of your next shooting phase.
Location matrix; after any hit friendly units may ignore shrouded, stealth, or benefits of night fighting when applied to the target.
Clever and fitting, but it is a LOT of rules there even if you lose the firepower of the whip its a big upgrade to have, probably 20pts imo
silentone2k wrote: Replace particle whip with the following; (option)
Targeting scanner
Range; 36, Str 1, AP - twin linked, targeting array, location matrix, skyfire, interceptor
Targeting array (as the triarch stalker) after any hit all other friendly units treat their weapons as twin linked against this target until the start of your next shooting phase.
Location matrix; after any hit friendly units may ignore shrouded, stealth, or benefits of night fighting when applied to the target.
Clever and fitting, but it is a LOT of rules there even if you lose the firepower of the whip its a big upgrade to have, probably 20pts imo
Gotta admit, I'm kinda liking the whole idea of having the option of flat out replacing the Particle Whip with the Advanced Targeting Array/Targeting Scanner. Perhaps even make it so there would essentially be two builds for the MCM: Strategic Command and Battle Fortress (comparable to the way the C'tan used to have two builds: Deceiver for tactics, and Nightbringer for face smashing).
But for the Targeting Array, would making it an ability rather than a shooting attack be too OP?
Yes most likely, because otherwise you just create a non-approachable fortess if there's loads of tesla around. TL Tesla... Eek! No thanks (well, that's what everyone else would say).
Don't know if this thing is still going, but if so, I propose a minor change to one of the new/experimental units:
Change the name of "Canoptek Sphinx" to "Canoptek Jackal".
Keep the same mechanics (single wound harassment unit).
Reason being, I just played Halo 4 for the first time.
As soon as I saw those robotic dogs running around, I was like, "yes! exactly what I had been envisioning when I had been thinking of the Canoptek Sphinx! Jackals would be much better!"
The concept behind the Promethian Knights would be somewhat similar to what the Canoptek Pariahs should be like, too, only not as tough.
The Sphinx, on the other hand, might make a good MC option.
(in a perfect world, if I were making the model for it, I'd make it a dual kit: Canoptek Sphinx / Canoptek Colossus (a four legged FMC (fast and tricky) vs two legged MC (strong and tough heavy hitter).)
...
Really, I just want a cool poseable Gundam like the Elder/Tau/GK have.
:(
That's a damn cool link, it would certainly work as long as we kept it on a par with Riptide/Wraithknight and no better. As for the Jackal thing I don't have Halo (or an Xbox, but that's another debate), so idk what they're like. They'd likely be
WS4
BS4
S5 (robot dogs are likely gonna hit hard)
T4
I3
A2
Ld10
Sv4+
From the looks of that thing, it's a borderline Reaper!
(Mass Effect 2, the Human Reaper).
Not that there's anything wrong with that, but if so, he'd probably have to be restricted to Apocalypse games.
Though, if there was a smaller version of him (around the scale of a Riptide/Dreadknight), that would make a pretty good Canoptek Colossus class MC.
(from the artwork, that staff it's holding could be something along the lines of the Staff of the Destroyer Imotekh wields, only not a "once per game" effect).
Would be fun to work on, nice to see a proper combat MC outside of nids. Don't know where to start because I haven't seen the Wraithknight or Riptide Codex entries
I've seen the Dreadknight entry, and that's of similar size
The Colossus would probably have a profile similar to this: WS 5 (maybe 4?) BS 5 S 6 T 6 W 5 I 2 A 3 Ld 10 Sv 3+ (Maybe 2+?)
That makes it a bit better than a Dreadknight,but it wouldn't have the ++ save
So maybe:
Canoptek Colossus (Unsure on pts cost)
WS 5 BS 5 S 6 T 6 W 5 I 2 A 3 Ld 10 Sv 3+
Unit Type: MC Wargear: (Unsure, maybe a Gauntlet of Fire or 2) Special Rules: Fearless (Maybe It Will Not Die, or could that be an upgrade/wargear, something like 'Reconstructor Scarab Hive': The model has the IWND special rule?)
I like that, makes sense though I think either 2+ Sv or an inv is necessary simply because krak missiles will have a field day killing it over and over. Oh, and you missed Initiative off the stats, I2 is standard cron. In terms of wargear, 2 GoF is a good start, possibly upgrades for a buffed staff of light (Str6 AP2 possibly?) or go more cc with twin voidblades for shred or a warscythe. Reconstructor thingy... Great, probably 20/30 pts. Other upgrades, possibly a Death mask that causes fear. Maybe as a rule it should have a Power Core Overload that works like Nova Charge
Untold Billions: Because only the military of the Necrontyr became Immortal Legions while the general citizenry became Necron Warriors, there are many millions more Warriors than Immortals in most dynastic armies. While witless and single-minded to the point of nonsentience, large numbers of Warriors in close proximity can share their power, amplifying their physical bodies even as their minds remain little more than rocks.
All Warriors in a unit with 15 or more Necron Warrior models change their save value to a 3+. However, as soon as they loose the 15th model, this save reverts to a 4+. This does mean that the Mixed Saves rules apply to rolling saves for units of Warriors nearing 15 models.
Terror Mask: Units with a model in base contact are treated as having -1 Ld for the purpose of fear tests.
Power core overload sounds cool, but maybe not, seeming it will just look like we're making a combat riptide for necrons...
Buffed Staff of Light sounds good.
Maybe we could also give it the option to take a (Heavy?) Gauss Cannon for more of a shooty role?
@ Unit1126PLL: Sounds like a cool idea. Thing is, though, Warriors would have to cost more and it could be seen as a blatant necron power grab to be extra OP... well, to non-necron players, anyway.
@ Unit1126PLL: Sounds like a cool idea. Thing is, though, Warriors would have to cost more and it could be seen as a blatant necron power grab to be extra OP... well, to non-necron players, anyway.
True. I just feel like no one takes Warriors anymore, except people running 20 man phalanxes, and at least around here those aren't terribly good.
@ Unit1126PLL: Sounds like a cool idea. Thing is, though, Warriors would have to cost more and it could be seen as a blatant necron power grab to be extra OP... well, to non-necron players, anyway.
True. I just feel like no one takes Warriors anymore, except people running 20 man phalanxes, and at least around here those aren't terribly good.
We had a brief idea on a possible Warrior option a page or two back: Warrior Drones.
(mass produced Canoptek copies of Warriors. They would lose Reanimation Protocols but would gain Fearless and Relentless. I think there was another thing about them, but I can't recall off the top of my head.
For the Colossus, the stats look okay, but in regards to the rules and wargear:
-Does a MC need IWND? It's not going to have hull points, after all...
-The Terror Mask sounds good for an upgrade.
-Just a Gauntlet of Fire? I was thinking HEAVY flamers! ... though, don't know how to make it appropriate.
-Yeah, definitely no Power core overload. He should probably have some sort of natural Inv save (just like a 5+), but in general, we gotta make this guy something original.
-Instead of a Staff of Light, how about a Staff of the Destroyer? (S6 AP1 2D6" line drawing weapon, only unlike Imotekh's Staff of the Destroyer version, the Colossus can use it every turn... unless we're changing Imotekh's one, too? I think we had been considering removing Imotekh's staff's "only once" restriction, right?)
-Obviously a Warscythe would be boss (S8 Armorbane, so he wouldn't even need to do Smash attacks).
But yeah, I think we should aim for around the same effectiveness as a Dreadknight/Riptide, but not better.
So, I was thinking about the Necron flavor. What is the real, core *thing* that makes necrons different as a faction. Then it hit me. I'm not sure why others were attracted to the faction, but for me the core of the Necron faction is RP. Massed necrons are awesome, but... flavorwise ...necron's terror is a function of the fact that they won't go or stay down...
While masses of warriors are cool (and should get some love somewhere), slavering, life-is-cheap Hordes are, really, a tyranid thing. Similarly, Immortals are MEQs with RP- and you can build off that fact. So it occurrs to me that getting away from others schticks would be awesome.
While I'm not sure where the Canopteks fit into this, it did occurr to me that there are some fairly obvious paths to making this a clear(er) faction trait.
Spoiler:
The limitations of the forms into which the Necrontyr were transferred was cost. However, with the recognition of the eternal wars they were embroiled in, some dynasties chose to invest more heavily in the forms they gave some of their followers.
Optional Wargear;
(available to non-vehicle units. Non-character models must purchase the upgrade for the entire unit.)
(costs are top of head stabs, as I don't have my codex on me so this may be low. There are related checks for some in 'dex, such as checking Restoration Protocols against Phylactary.)
Heavy Construction
5 points per model
One of the most basic improvements to the Necron form, the use of heavier, more durable materials, and corrisponding upgrades in the servos and motors driving the Necron's movement.
Increase model's strength and toughness by 1.
Semipiternal Weave
(as codex entries)
(as a note, before people get crazy with how OP this is; those first two upgrades cost more than an Immortal and, if applied to a Warrior, don't even get to the same level of power)
Ablative Armor;
25 points per model
Built with a significantly heavier frame and additional protection for critical systems, this robustness allows it to shrug off punishment that would utterly destroy other Necron forms of the same type.
Increase model's wounds by 1.
Redundant systems;
40 points per model
Many of the necron's critical systems have been duplicated, sometimes repeatedly, throughout its mechanical body. These backups allow the machine to simply ignore damage that would otherwise stop it.
Gains Feel No Pain.
Restoration Protocols;
55 points per model, only available to units with Reanimation Protocols.
The repair systems integrated into the Necron form are incredibly effective, allowing them to restore themselves from damage that should render them completely unsalvagable. These protocols are designed to only begin work upon the inactivation of the Necron and leave any further needed repair to be executed later. In this unit those protocols have been redesigned to work continuously, and the underlying systems upgraded to handle the additional load.
Model gains IWND.
Deathless
75 points per model, only available to units with Reanimation Protocols.
The standard protocol is for damaged Necrons to be phased out if they cannot immediately be reanimated, being reclaimed by their Tomb World (or destroyed if cut off). This unit has had these protocols modified to give them greater tenacity on the battlefield. Only when the repair systems have completely failed do the secondary responses of recovery or annhilation engage.
This model gains the Everliving trait if it did not already posess it. Further, reanimation counters for this model are only removed if it is restored or if the reanimation roll comes up with a 1.
Should the Inferno Gauntlets get Torrent? Or is that a bit much...
@Silentone, yes the trick is that crons get back up but IWND and +1W and +1S and +1T... Yeah it makes an OL 175pts but add a warscythe and he's now S8 in cc with armourbane, T6 W4 and regenerates on a 5+, on top of 3+ armour and RP it's bonkers. As is S5 and T5 Warriors imho.
Depends, does the DK's flamer have Torrent?
But really, even if it did, just two Heavy Flamers should be plenty.
So the weapon options would be:
- 1x/2x Inferno Gauntlets
- Warscythe (wielded one handed... this would be a monstrous creature, after all, the thing would be like a sword to him)
- Staff of the Destroyer (at S6 AP1, it's plenty good as it is, so doesn't need buffing. we're changing Imotekh's one to be non-single use, so this one won't need a new name).
- Gauss/Tesla Cannons (twin linked).
- Dispersion Field Generator (think giant Dispersion Shield. Gives him a 4++, and ability to reflect shots 12")
In regards to IWND, oh yeah, duh, I completely forgot about the whole regenerating wounds thing.
Being the case, I guess we could give it the option (as a Canoptek unit, the Colossus wouldn't be able to benefit from RP, but with IWND, that would be a pretty good trade off).
Automatically Appended Next Post: Wait, forgot about the other proposed MC, the Canoptek Sphinx.
Perhaps some of this weapon options should go to it instead. (eg. Staff of the Destroyer).
Basic Colossus loadout would likely be 2 Inferno Gauntlets and 2 Tesla Cannons. May swap a Gauntlet for Warscythe for 15pts, Tesla-->Gauss for free, may swap a Gauntlet for DFG for 25pts. Sphinx would be on 4 legs, so it could have a Staff of Destroyer weapon fired from its eyes (sure I've seen it done in many a film) and a halo projected from the thing around its head giving a 5++? Probably mount tesla cannons on the front paws that can be swapped for Gauss cannons (free) or inferno Gauntlets (15pts each)
Also, I was thinking, the Colossus should possibly be a bit tougher, either +1 wound, +1 toughness or both
also, Warsythe sword would look illy, tbh when I imaging it I think of it holding the Warscythe/Staff of light 2 handed.
So something like:
Canoptek Colossus (220pts? Unsure)
WS 5 BS 5 S 6 T 7 W 5 I 2 A 3 Ld 10 Sv 2+
Unit Type: Monstrous Creature Wargear: 2 Inferno Gauntlets, 2 Tesla Cannons, Sempiternal Weave Special Rules: Fearless Options: -May replace both tesla cannons with: -- 2 Gauss cannons...free --2 Particle Beamers...10pts -May replace any Inferno Gauntlet with: --Voidblade...free --Tachyon Arrow...10pts --Heat Ray...15pts -May replace both Inferno Gauntlets with: --Staff of Light..free --Warscythe...5pts --Heavy Gauss Cannon...10pts --Particle Shredder...15pts -May take: --Terror Mask...10pts --Gloom Prism...15pts --Dispersion Field Generator...15pts --Reconstructor Hive...20pts
Reconstructor Hive: IWND
Terror Mask: Enemy models in base contact have -1 Ld for fear tests
Dispersion Field Generator: 4+ invulnerable save. If this save is made against a shooting attack, choose an unengaged enemy unit within 12". That unit suffers a single hit with a Strength and AP equal to that of the initial shot. If there is no unengaged enemy unit within 12", the shot is not redirected. This does not cause blast and template markers to be repositioned.
Inferno Gauntlets: An Inferno Gauntlet is a close combat weapon. Attacks made with an Inferno Guntlet re-roll failed To Hit and To Wound rolls in combat. In addition, the Inferno Gauntlet can be shot with the following profile in the shooting phase: Range: Template Str: 5 AP: 4 Type: Assault 1
Yes.... but no. T7 W6 would be the toughest MC on the market and I dont think the anti-Crons would call us fair. T7 W5 maybe, or T6 W6 like a Flyrant/C'fex (I think). Also the SoL needs buffing to be viable and the Gauntlets probably shouldn't be TL (2 TLHF? Bit much imo). I agree pts wise, maybe 225 if we did it your way 210 my way. And there's still the possible Sphinx thing to do. Yay
4 S8 AP1 Melta shots/2 S5 AP4 flamers for 10 points?! No way. The Heat Ray I think needs to go. Its presence pretty much guarantees that the Gauss Cannon option is obsolete. Anything it can do, the Heat Ray can do better for a wee point increase. Just get rid of it.
Going off of Mitranekh's suggestions, I suggest T6 W6. Staff of Light definitely needs a buff. Maybe here a Heat Ray equivalent of some sort. As for the Inferno Gauntlets, make it either 2 HF or a pair makes 1TL HF. Not 2 TLHF.
Mitranekh the Omniscient wrote: Yes.... but no. T7 W6 would be the toughest MC on the market and I dont think the anti-Crons would call us fair. T7 W5 maybe, or T6 W6 like a Flyrant/C'fex (I think). Also the SoL needs buffing to be viable and the Gauntlets probably shouldn't be TL (2 TLHF? Bit much imo). I agree pts wise, maybe 225 if we did it your way 210 my way. And there's still the possible Sphinx thing to do. Yay
Agree with all these points. This thing, despite how super awesome we would want to make it, has to be equal or less than your average current MC, lest, as Mitranekh pointed out, the non-Crons complain about the brokenness.
Heat ray should also not be a weapons option. [edited, wrote the wrong ray]
Forgot about the template attack of the Heat ray... thanks for reminding me about it
At first I wasn't going to add twin-linked, but in the end I did just because of the combat stuff, but it's gone now. I myself wasn't to sure on it, anyway.
As I said, I was unsure whether +1 both or +1 for W/T. I just did both to start with just to see how good it would be.
Hnoestly I only increased the toughness and wound so it would have a chance against the Wraithknight with it's T8.
Now reduced to T6 W6... thinking of changing it to T7 W5, though.
Maybe make the Heat Rays replace the inferno gauntlets instead of the tesla cannons instead? More fair? (15pts to replace IG w/ HR?)
All-Consuming Darkness: The Umbral Ravager releases a deadly wave of what seems to be utter darkness. All but the sturdiest that is touched by this darkness disappears once it passes. Models hit by this attack must pass a strength test with rolls of 6 automatically failing or be removed from play, no saves allowed. Vehicles suffer a glancing hit on a D6 roll of 6.
All-Consuming Darkness: The Umbral Ravager releases a deadly wave of what seems to be utter darkness. All but the sturdiest that is touched by this darkness disappears once it passes. Models hit by this attack must pass a strength test with rolls of 6 automatically failing or be removed from play, no saves allowed. Vehicles suffer a glancing hit on a D6 roll of 6.
The fluff you used sounds like it would be more appropriate for a Harbinger than a Canoptek unit (and even then, it's a little too strong if it's also able to affect vehicles)
If it's just a strength test, why not just make it like the other strength test causing Canoptek weapons and have it use Exile ray? eg.
That Scourer would be great, possibly give that as a Sphinx weapon because we still need to work on that. It could be
WS4
BS5
S5
T5
W5 (if it were W4 i don't think anyone would use it)
I2
A3
Ld10
Sv 2+
Wargear; Transdimensional Scourer, 2 Tesla Cannons
Rules; Fearless
Options;
May exchange Tesla Cannons for... Gauss Cannons Free or Particle Beamers +10pts
May take Etherium Phased Claws (Rending) +15pts
May take Reconstructor Scarabs +25pts
May take Dispersion Field Generator +20pts
Generally speaking, I like the changes you have made.
I think re-rolling RP with Undying Servitude is a bit much though. Maybe allow the unit the Overlord is with to always make a RP roll even if the unit is wiped out?
Mindshackle Scarabs needs to be more than 20 points.
I would say 35-40 pts and take the LD test on 2D6 not 3.
Alternatively make it so that if the model fails its test they don't attack this round (instead of attacking their own side).
I can't see a reason for Lychguard to take power axes when warscythes are available (unless you plan for them to be able to take them in addition to dispersion shields a la Eldar Wraithblades?).
I would like them to have a 2+ save option as well though.
The Ghost Ark changes sound good. I see no point in limiting the units who can ride in a transport vehicle (except units with the Bulky rule).
I like the extra weapon options for the Destroyers and Lord Destroyers with the Royal Court. A unit of T5 Destroyers with combat weaponry led by a Destroyer Lord could be fun.
I really like Sahtah the Enfleshed and Executioner Ezandrakh as well. Very well thought out characters.
Thanks!
Giving Ever-Living to an OL's unit is interesting and could work actually, especially in bigger games when Vindicators turn up and your LG just vanish.
35pts and a 2D6 test is now a pointless thing, 25 at most if you want it that way, 35 for 3D6.
I think the axe thing is a la Wraithblades I'll see when whoever was compiling this into a doc gets done. 2+ save T5 and shields is too much imo.
I thought we settled on 2D6 rolls for MSS but reroll first successful pass? (thus making them less broken and more fluffy, eg. the target fighting off the effects of the Scarabs on his mind). Still attacks his own unit, though (can't argue with a classic mind control mechanic like that).
With that change, 20-25 points for the wargear seems reasonable, does it not?
In regards to the other things, for Undying Servitude, why not just make it the same effect that the Tomb Citadel grants? (reroll RP rolls of 1). At least there would be a precedent for it, then.
Throw in a reroll for LoS! rolls, and you have one decent fluffy mechanic, no?
For Lychguard, we were hoping to make them into some sort of TEQ, meaning options for 2+ save, some sort of inv, and AP2 weapons. If we make it so we can mix and match wargear in the same unit (meaning some models armed with Sword/Shield, some armed with Warscythes), the maybe the necessity for the axe wouldn't be so pressing.
skoffs wrote: I thought we settled on 2D6 rolls for MSS but reroll first successful pass? (thus making them less broken and more fluffy, eg. the target fighting off the effects of the Scarabs on his mind). Still attacks his own unit, though (can't argue with a classic mind control mechanic like that).
With that change, 20-25 points for the wargear seems reasonable, does it not?
In regards to the other things, for Undying Servitude, why not just make it the same effect that the Tomb Citadel grants? (reroll RP rolls of 1). At least there would be a precedent for it, then.
Throw in a reroll for LoS! rolls, and you have one decent fluffy mechanic, no?
For Lychguard, we were hoping to make them into some sort of TEQ, meaning options for 2+ save, some sort of inv, and AP2 weapons. If we make it so we can mix and match wargear in the same unit (meaning some models armed with Sword/Shield, some armed with Warscythes), the maybe the necessity for the axe wouldn't be so pressing.
- If Lychguard got this option, I would like to see Wraithblades get the same. Mixing swords, and axes/forceshields in the unit would be fun. Not a 2+ save though, T6 is good enough already. Even if a 2+ is possible with a Spirit seer and some lucky rolling
Mitranekh the Omniscient wrote: That Scourer would be great, possibly give that as a Sphinx weapon because we still need to work on that. I'd be down for that
It could be
WS4
BS5 nah, should be the same as the other Canoptek units, BS4
S5 I say S6
T5 T6, too. This is a MC we're dealing with here. You don't think they should be a little stronger/tougher than a mere Lord?
W5 (if it were W4 i don't think anyone would use it) Spyders are only W3, yet people seem to have no problems with that. Besides, this guy is our Flyrant-esque glass cannon-type, the Colossus will be the heavy badass.
I2
A3 A4, I say. It's a Sphinx for crying out loud. I would imagine giant lion things to have slightly more attacks than your average Flayed One.
Ld10
Sv 2+
Wargear; Transdimensional Scourer, 2 Tesla Cannons How about we give it nothing but the Rending Claws at first, and have all the weapons as optional add-on, like the Spyders and Wraiths?
Rules; Fearless AND relentless, remember? (we were giving all the Canoptek units Fearless and Relentless)
Options;
May exchange Tesla Cannons for... Gauss Cannons Free or Particle Beamers +10pts Nah, cannons don't exactly seem like something a Canoptek unit should be armed with. How about just the Particle Beamers for 10 points, the Transdimensional Scourer for 20, or the Staff of the Destroyer type weapon for 15 (how does "Gaze of the Destroyer" sound? S6 AP1 2D6" line that can be drawn anywhere from 12 inches of its head. Can be fired at flyers, too, but just as a single skyfire shot, not a line, thus avoiding the problem with interpretation the Doomscythe suffered from)
May take Etherium Phased Claws (Rending) +15pts comes free instead
May take Reconstructor Scarabs +25pts seems fine
May take Dispersion Field Generator +20pts This, I feel, should really just be a Colossus only wargear option. Perhaps give the Sphinx a free Dispersion Halo (5++) instead.
Not sure whether we should give it the option to fly as well. A FMC would be nice, but might be stepping on the toes of other codecies.
Also,
Monstrous Infantry for Colossus
Monstrous Beast for Sphinx
Alright I admit mine was a bit of a bad start. So we give it the Rending Claws default and the Halo.... Options to take beamer, Scourer and the SotD thingy (I think perhaps Aeonic Gaze, Purging Stare or, and this is only a joke, the Super-Ultimate-Death-Stare-of-Doom!!! Only kidding)
Monstrous Infantry? Monstrous Beast?
I'm guessing you mean like 'Monstrous Creature, Infantry' and 'Monstrous Creature, Beast'?
If so, 'Monstrous Creature, Infantry' isn't needed, it would just be Monstrous Creature as they follow almost all the same rules for infantry but with extra special rules, and can shoot two weapons instead of one.
Regardless, S7 (S9 with Warscythe) T7 W5 seems fine for the Colossus. He's only meant to be able to hold his own against other MCs, not hand them their assess.
What's everyone's opinion on having the Sphinx be able to fly? Too much?
Fair enough.
(though, with five of them, we're going to need to be able to combine them together to make Voltron)
...
(and no, I'm not serious)
However, should we consider some way to get the Colossus into battle faster? (one of the main reasons people don't take C'tan Shards is because they're so slow. The DK can teleport, Flyrants and DPs can fly, the Riptide can jump, not sure about the Wraithknight... how about the Colossus?)
Yeah, this is going to be tricky.
We can't have his only method of movement be walking, as no one would take him, especially when there's a beast MC available instead.
But as this guy would ideally be a massive statue that comes to life, he won't exactly be able to use a jet/jump pack. I'm imagining something along the lines of the Colossus of Rhodes, standing guard on a tomb world disguised as a mere monument to some old general, until trespassers intrude, then he activates, along the lines of the Destroyer guardian robot from the Thor movie... in fact, yes! That's exactly the kind of image/route we should be taking for this guy!
How did that thing move?
*goes and watches videos*
Automatically Appended Next Post: Okay, well by the looks of this, he's probably going to need to be able to deep strike-
Even a "Meteoric Decent" type rule (though not really Meteoric Decent, because that has to do with Vector Strikes), where you can place a small blast marker, roll for scatter, and anything under the marker takes Hammer of Wrath hits... we'll have to come up with a cool name for it ("Impact Strike"?)
(to make it fair, maybe instead of rolling for mishap (which he would be immune to, obviously, unless landing off the table), he has to take a single hit based on the target's toughness (AP-) to represent him ramming into them after dropping from the sky. Vehicles would be worked out at half their AV value, rounded down. Scattering into difficult/dangerous terrain would be a dangerous terrain test, impassible terrain resolved at at S10 AP- hit. After resolving wounds from that attack, move the colossus so he would be in base contact with the unit in question, or next to the impassable terrain it landed on).
Also, after rewatching that, yeah, maybe a heat ray wouldn't be all that uncalled for after all. (or maybe he really should have the SotD type weapon... suddenly "Gaze of the Destroyer" is a perfectly suitable name)
Great idea but iirc the Mawloc doesn't get into cc if it eats part of a unit up so it would be unfair for the Colossus to do it. How about we make it Jump by giving it a Wormhole Generator (sort of like Portal?) because it's not treading on toes and makes it a viable choice
Anyway, a Wormhole Generator sounds like it might be fluffable, but I don't know about making it Jump/Jet... what are the other options for quicker movement?
Simply a one time deep strike-esque jump? I guess that would work. (One-way Wormhole)
Or... we could give him a variation of the Veil of Darkness.
(the Dreadknight, how does its teleporter work? It can't assault after teleporting, right?)
Then we tread on DK/GK with the shunt. A VoD variant could work but it could possibly be once every 2 turns to represent the generator recharging, keeps the Colossus mobile but not too much. Or it could use other cron wormholes and appear through them (Eternity Gate/NS Gateway) if they're there, maybe only Monolith because it's bigger.
Mitranekh the Omniscient wrote: Then we tread on DK/GK with the shunt. A VoD variant could work but it could possibly be once every 2 turns to represent the generator recharging, keeps the Colossus mobile but not too much. Or it could use other cron wormholes and appear through them (Eternity Gate/NS Gateway) if they're there, maybe only Monolith because it's bigger.
Nah, then it would make it practically untakeable without a Monolith.
If we didn't make it jump/jet, but DID give it a Veil-esque ability, would that make it alright, or would it still be out maneuved by all the other "knight" MCs? (he'd still have a real problem getting into combat compared to the other guys, but would be better at getting where he needs to when you need him to be, as far as shooting goes)
I have no exact idea of what all has been proposed yet, read the first few pages but then i noticed there were 12. O_o
I read a few times that a good thing on monoliths would be that they would gain deep strike failure immunity, in my opinion they don't exactly need that to be better, a very fair and more simple addition for them would be a better version of 'Heavy', so here's my version:
'Floating Fortress': A monolith has all the aspects of a 'Heavy' vehicle with the following exceptions: a monolith may fire it's other weapons on full ballistic skill and use other special weapons even when firing it's ordnance weapon.
Hence a little improvement that might require a little extra points! +15 points I'd say (makes them have a funny point cost again, mhihihihi).
As for flayed ones, that one is easy, I would not make them troops, (hell no, I need to have warriors there!!!) Just give them this extra rule in replacement of their deep strike rule:
'Arrival Within The Shadows': Flayed ones have the 'deep strike' special rule. They however prefer to enter as silently as possible so their prey can be caught easily, when Flayed Ones arrived via deep strike they can only be targeted by units who have at least 1 model within 12" range (for Vehicles the weapons must be within the range), furthermore when a unit has been nominated to fire at the Flayed Ones the unit must roll a D6, if the result is 4 or more they can fire normally, if the result is less, they have only been distracted by the strange sounds of the Flayed Ones arrival and may not do anything that shooting phase.
And they should get Initiative 4 as they once had. (they are blood-crazy machines that are twisted beyond reason, sure they got a bit more faster and twitchy)
Their point cost should be adapted to 18 points.
As for our poor Lychgaurd, easy, 2+ save AND the ability to give a half or the whole of the squad the other wargear option (Any tactical Overlord would agree that having a few of them carrying shields and the others bad-ass weaponry for true killing wouldn't be such a bad idea.) no points increase here.
As for some Warp defense, I find the Anti-Warp Cryptek idea fascinating, since Necrons have been busy building Warp negating buildings, they could easily have made artefacts that are much smaller (also less effective as whole buildings of course) but still potent warp blockers. So I suggest the following option:
A Cryptek may be upgraded to a Cryptek of Order (credit to the one who invented this, read it somewhere, but cannot remember who invented it), changing it's Staff of Light for a Staff of Order (Range 24" S5 AP4 Assault 2, Ray of Order: When a unit is hit by this weapon and has a Psyker in it, this(these) Psyker(s) must add +2 to any Psychic Test Roll they take untill their opponents following turn.
Wargear option 1: Sphere of Order: This Artefact has much resemblance to a Resurrection Orb but an entirely different role. It resonates a field that nullifies any warp energy near it.
A Cryptek of Order and the unit pass their 'Deny the Witch' rolls on a 4+. Furthermore Psykers who are in a combat in which the wielder of this item is present have to take a 3D6 leadership test at every start of a round of combat, if they pass, nothing happens, if they fail, they suffer 1 Unsaved Wound. (Costs 30 Points)
Wargear option 2: Mind Key: This device is a small piece of gear that Crypteks of Order have developed over millennia, it has the ability to find a Psyker Mind and completely lock it off from the warp, thus nullifying the Psyker. A nasty side effect is that it also seals off much other things than only the Warp.
A Cryptek of Order may choose not to fire it's standard weapon during the shooting phase and fire the Mind Key instead. The Mind Key can be used to target a Psyker within 36" range (even if he is within a Unit, only the Psyker is targeted and only 1 Psyker can be targeted). The Cryptek rolls to hit as normal, if hit has been rolled the Cryptek's controlling player has to roll a D6, on a 4+ the enemy Psyker has been locked down by the Mind key and cannot do anything untill the following Necron player turn. During Lock Down, at the start of his own movement phase the Psyker has to take a strength test, if failed, the Psyker suffers an unsaved wound, if passed nothing happens. (Costs 25 Points)
I'm done for now hope you like some Ideas and it would be great if some were use-able haha!
My Necrons only say, AVENGERS, ASSEMBLE!!! *they fly off to distant planets.
Yeah, we all want the Flayed Ones to be better, but I4 would just be too out of line with the rest of the army (not even Scarabs and Wraiths get better than I2, and you would think THEY would be fast...).
Making them Troops is nonnegotiable (IA12 already did it). Besides, we have to have something else in the troop section, now that we're removing Nightscythes as dedicated transport (no more MSU Warrior spam in NSs, that crap is beyond ridiculous. Only Elites get the NS as dedicated transport now, everyone else can take the bus (ie. Ghost Ark).
That Arrive in Shadows ability sounds like it might be OP-ish. Perhaps simply giving them stealth for the turn the arrive might be easier.
For the Monolith, yeah, we're pretty much already incorporating those ideas into it, but it also needs deep strike immunity back. Then they'll at least be worth taking again.
Yup, already giving the Lychguard the ability to mix and match weapons (with a couple new weapon options, too), as well as the option to upgrade to 2+ saves.
The Order-tek is tricky. Giving him abilities that ONLY affect Psykers isn't really the best idea, as he will be useless in any situation that doesn't have a Psyker (and you're not always going to know who/what you're going to face, so that's a major gamble to include him in your army).
Instead, giving him abilities that affect everything, but affect Psykers in particular, will make him a lot more versatile. (eg. "War gear name: ability against normal targets. If target is Psyker/Daemon, then different/bonus effect).
