if I do a KS exclusive it will truly be an exclusive Limited Edition.
I do not want anyone to take it as a quote but I will say that between $45 and $75 is a good estimate for the starter set prices. It will really depend on what ends up going in to the starter sets. I do want to try to keep it as affordable as possible though. My goal is to get this game up and running like hell so the more peopel it attracts the better.
And yes resin beasties and Metal characters and auch is about right.
Azazelx wrote: ...and I'm not sure RBG can really afford the time and effort to spend on loss leaders in their present situation.
His present situation. It is worth remembering that like some other boutique miniatures companies, RBG is a one man show (Not to diminish periodic assistance offered by spouse/friends/etc.). No offense intended, Azazelx, this is just a handy opportunity to discuss something that I think is important.
I'm completely aware of that, and I originally wrote "Tre's present situation" but it felt like I was hammering away at that a little hard "Tre this, Tre that" - especially given the context of RBG having fallen on some difficult times in many aspects, so changed it to the slightly less personal RBG as a plural.
It's Ok guys I got what Az was saying and I also appreciate your sentiment Weeble and yours as well Az. I did not take offense. I certianly do nto want to take on any losses either. The Motivation for the LE is purely because I am not sure I could justify the expense of the piece outside of a KS exclusive. The idea is a vignette rather than a single figure. It is the kind of thing that I think truly justifies LE status. I HATE it when companies use the " limited Edition " tag on a piece JUST so they can charge a little more for it and create a false sense of urgency to grab it before it is " gone " when they could just as easily sell it as normal piece for as long as they wanted to.
I think that a Limited Edition should be something truly special and something that actually demands a shorter production life.
But like I said this is still VERY much JUST an idea.
I want to be very careful nto to slow down the delivery of whatever is funded in this next KS. My goal is run this KS before the Summer and deliver it in full before the END of the Summer. I deally I would like to deliver it before Gen Con. Then I plan to run a second KS in August and deliver it by Christmas.
tre manor wrote: I want to be very careful nto to slow down the delivery of whatever is funded in this next KS. My goal is run this KS before the Summer and deliver it in full before the END of the Summer. I deally I would like to deliver it before Gen Con. Then I plan to run a second KS in August and deliver it by Christmas.
That timeline only sounds feasible if everything is already sculpted before you launch, Tre, just like it was in your third KS (which looks like it has a chance of just barely being right on time still ). Especially given that there are more sculpts in this campaign than in your third.
tre manor wrote: I want to be very careful nto to slow down the delivery of whatever is funded in this next KS. My goal is run this KS before the Summer and deliver it in full before the END of the Summer. I deally I would like to deliver it before Gen Con. Then I plan to run a second KS in August and deliver it by Christmas.
That timeline only sounds feasible if everything is already sculpted before you launch, Tre, just like it was in your third KS (which looks like it has a chance of just barely being right on time still ). Especially given that there are more sculpts in this campaign than in your third.
Indeed. People are excited when a project fulfills early and annoyed when it is late.
Modularity MIGHT be back on the table for the starter sets. It depends on how an experiment goes. I have figured out how to set the modular bits up for casting that will eliminate the problems that it usually causes. Essentially the figures will be molded with a sprue system similar to what you might see in plastics. Definitely nto what you are thinking right now though. There will be VERY little extraneous metal.
Basically each part that divides from another will be attached to the part it divides from via a "peg". This peg will be 2/3's the diameter of the parts it attaches, and will be approximately 5 mm long and will have a " snip " line to allow for a fast smooth cut. On the side with the snip line there will be a shallow " cup " which will be just slightly larger than the " peg ". This is a pilot depression which will allow the user to very easily drill out the socket for the peg to fit into. This will insure a good tight fit for every part, no shrinkage discrepancy between the parts, and a good built in " pinning ". Also it will make keeping up with the parts a snap for me as all the parts will be molded together in one " sprue ".
Modularity MIGHT be back on the table for the starter sets. It depends on how an experiment goes. I have figured out how to set the modular bits up for casting that will eliminate the problems that it usually causes. Essentially the figures will be molded with a sprue system similar to what you might see in plastics. Definitely nto what you are thinking right now though. There will be VERY little extraneous metal.
Basically each part that divides from another will be attached to the part it divides from via a "peg". This peg will be 2/3's the diameter of the parts it attaches, and will be approximately 5 mm long and will have a " snip " line to allow for a fast smooth cut. On the side with the snip line there will be a shallow " cup " which will be just slightly larger than the " peg ". This is a pilot depression which will allow the user to very easily drill out the socket for the peg to fit into. This will insure a good tight fit for every part, no shrinkage discrepancy between the parts, and a good built in " pinning ". Also it will make keeping up with the parts a snap for me as all the parts will be molded together in one " sprue ".
What do you guys think?
Also.....plastic?? Ala Wrath of Kings / Dust??
Sounds like a great plan! I know some companies who have done simikar with the weapons and heads on an extended tab along the feet.
im really looking forward to this ks, this thread in particular has been great in building up excitement.
Keep up the good work (and mabye post another preview )
The difference between the Wrath of Kings material and that used in Dust for the infantry is large. The Wrath of Kings casts look fantastic, and won't be rubbery like the Dust models can be.
If you could do Wrath of Kings type plastic and lower the price point, this could be a very large campaign indeed (people will go nuts for the big beasts), but that will likely work in opposition to your desire to get this KS out the door quickly.
Gallahad wrote: ...but that will likely work in opposition to your desire to get this KS out the door quickly.
Exactly... new materials that you've never had models made in before means risk and delay. Metal and hand cast resin are known quantities. Two extremely different approaches, and I don't think you can move between them lightly. If you've been planning for metal, you should follow through with metal (imo).
Well the way that I am goign about this I can make a set of modulars AND a set of single piece from the same components.
To be honest I don't really know anythign about the Dust plastics. The WoK plastics look great though. I am really nto sure I want to go the plastics route but I cannot ignore the possibility and prospect of really making this a big deal. I suppose it is somethign I can always come back to.
Just some food for though for now.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Incidentally the first art pieces for the campaign page are comign in now and they are awesome as usual. I can definitely see some awesome patches or a T-shirt in the works for this one.
Well the way that I am goign about this I can make a set of modulars AND a set of single piece from the same components.
To be honest I don't really know anythign about the Dust plastics. The WoK plastics look great though. I am really nto sure I want to go the plastics route but I cannot ignore the possibility and prospect of really making this a big deal. I suppose it is somethign I can always come back to.
Just some food for though for now.
I have no doubt that you will make the best choice at the en but I have to admit that metal suits very much as a material of your miniatures. It keeps a great amount of detail, which your minis are full of and has this particular "weight" that makes the mini look solid and not just a toy.
Modularity MIGHT be back on the table for the starter sets. It depends on how an experiment goes. I have figured out how to set the modular bits up for casting that will eliminate the problems that it usually causes. Essentially the figures will be molded with a sprue system similar to what you might see in plastics. Definitely nto what you are thinking right now though. There will be VERY little extraneous metal.
Basically each part that divides from another will be attached to the part it divides from via a "peg". This peg will be 2/3's the diameter of the parts it attaches, and will be approximately 5 mm long and will have a " snip " line to allow for a fast smooth cut. On the side with the snip line there will be a shallow " cup " which will be just slightly larger than the " peg ". This is a pilot depression which will allow the user to very easily drill out the socket for the peg to fit into. This will insure a good tight fit for every part, no shrinkage discrepancy between the parts, and a good built in " pinning ". Also it will make keeping up with the parts a snap for me as all the parts will be molded together in one " sprue ".
What do you guys think?
For modularity just do multiple swappable heads with plastic space marine ball and socket joins. KISS.
If you must experiment with greater modularity, then add just a couple of figures using this new system - like a maximum of two per faction - since it's a new idea. Minimise the risk so it doesnt bite you in the arse. If it works well, then by all means go nuts with the next three factions. If it backfires (that could never happen, amirite?) or works out badly, then you're not fethed as you were by the Trollcast episode. Minimise the risk.
I have talked with a few industry guys abotu plastic and I think I might do well to steer clear of it until the scale of demand really makes it worth while. I think that stickign with MEtal and Resin is the most sure fire way to go and I am always very suspicious of the promises of Plastics campaigns anyway.
I wouldn't be super excited about modularity personally. When Rackham introduced modular metal kits for Ragnarok they never matched the character of the non-modular sculpts.
I don't think you need to compromise pose and character for modularity right off the bat personally.
Good call on sticking with metal/resin. I think limiting all of the unknowns for this campaign is important.
Too many competing products in the market right now. I am aiming at mid April or early May. I will be taking full advantage of the intervening time to get as much of the front end work done as possible. I have Dave Needham working on the art elements already and I am also in talks with a few other artists as well. The Undead starter set is done. Now I am working on finishing the Barbarians set. I figure I can be done with that by the end of the week next week. After that I will finish up the Amazons set.
I know that limiting the scope of the launch will allow me to flesh out the first factions more thoroughly, but I cannot help but feel like more faction starters will draw in more backers. I have the Empirial Mage sculpted and the first of the Empirial Melee minions sculpted as well. That gives me the basis for those which means they can be wrapped up rather quickly and for the mutants I have the first of the melee minions sculpted, the first of the war beast minions sculpted and the first of their elites sculpted as well. I am very tempted to just go ahead and get those sculpted and mastered as well.
Too many competing products in the market right now. I am aiming at mid April or early May. I will be taking full advantage of the intervening time to get as much of the front end work done as possible. I have Dave Needham working on the art elements already and I am also in talks with a few other artists as well. The Undead starter set is done. Now I am working on finishing the Barbarians set. I figure I can be done with that by the end of the week next week. After that I will finish up the Amazons set.
I know that limiting the scope of the launch will allow me to flesh out the first factions more thoroughly, but I cannot help but feel like more faction starters will draw in more backers. I have the Empirial Mage sculpted and the first of the Empirial Melee minions sculpted as well. That gives me the basis for those which means they can be wrapped up rather quickly and for the mutants I have the first of the melee minions sculpted, the first of the war beast minions sculpted and the first of their elites sculpted as well. I am very tempted to just go ahead and get those sculpted and mastered as well.
Decisions decisions.......
Sounds good, lots of ks struggle with just having concept art. I'm looking forward to seeing the artwork, to see what kind of world your building.
I understand your being skittish after the Trollforge debacle. I would be too. I think this will be different because it's not an unknown material. I'll support whatever you do. I'm just excited about this new range. This is why I'm holding off on Mierces KS.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I'm in the Dwarven Forge KS. Your scale works perfect with them.
Yea, I would love to see some concepts etc. too to pull me farther away from the Mierce KS. I think I have one KS worth of funds in me right now, and really I think I could get a lot more value out of a RBG one now, so long as there is stuff I want. Eagerly looking forward to what you've got!
Too many competing products in the market right now. I am aiming at mid April or early May. I will be taking full advantage of the intervening time to get as much of the front end work done as possible. I have Dave Needham working on the art elements already and I am also in talks with a few other artists as well. The Undead starter set is done. Now I am working on finishing the Barbarians set. I figure I can be done with that by the end of the week next week. After that I will finish up the Amazons set.
I know that limiting the scope of the launch will allow me to flesh out the first factions more thoroughly, but I cannot help but feel like more faction starters will draw in more backers. I have the Empirial Mage sculpted and the first of the Empirial Melee minions sculpted as well. That gives me the basis for those which means they can be wrapped up rather quickly and for the mutants I have the first of the melee minions sculpted, the first of the war beast minions sculpted and the first of their elites sculpted as well. I am very tempted to just go ahead and get those sculpted and mastered as well.
Decisions decisions.......
Noone understands what's involved in fulfilling either option better than you Tre.
Anyone advocating caution is just a big fan who wants to see you realise the success that KS1 promised.
Honestly I think the three factions you are planning to lead with will be your big sellers, it might be better to roll the Mutants and Empirials in there as well out of completeness as I wouldn't have thought that a Mutants and Empirials KS would do quite as well by itself.
I'm just really excited about this new project in general. Metal is great. Plastic would probably involve way too much fidling and investment on your end Tre. I've still never touched troll cast, and I would love too, but I'm aware of the circumstances that took place awhile back with both you and Jodi's Imbrian Arts project and the material.
Yeah, I'm for metal and single pose, because your miniatures just ooze character and I think single pose is the best for that. I'm actually not confident that my assembly skills wouldn't ruin the good sculpts you put together.
Plus, single pose minis fall apart less! Multipose is for plastic, in my opinion.
That said, I am definitely in the camp of "Fans of RBG who really want this to succeed!" (In case you hadn't guessed)
It makes me really happy to see you bouncing back from past difficulties and making another go at it. We're all rooting for you here.
streetsamurai wrote: Will it be possible to also get the infantry model in resin ?
This would definitely be cool, however I think some of the features of Tre's infantry sculpts are so fine that they may work better in metal than in resin (where they could be too fragile). The models that I did get of his in trollcast had some very small features and I think that they would be a risk in any resin material.
The big models in resin sounds like a very good plan, though.
I am considering offering a set of resins for each of the factions. I am just not really sure how to do it yet. The only way I can really think of thus far to limit the quantity ( which would be neccessary in the interest of predicting delivery turn-around ) is to make a separate strictly limited pledge level for it. Backers of thee levels woudl of course be able to add the starters to this pledge and all that.
That would probably be a smart way to go about doing it. It would keep it a lot simpler too, just be careful not to make the resins too much of a big deal such that people get confused about materials and whether they can get them, etc.
This is the first of the greater Undead Warriors. These are Undead whose spirits are more tightly bound to their mummified remains and generally act as the personal guard of the Liche Priest hood or High ranking cultists. They are smarter and stronger and more co-ordinated than the lesser undead. They are not totally autonomous but they also do not need the same level of management by the necromancer or the closer proximity to the animating necromancer either.
I have plans to make 3 or 4 of these and then a cultist hero to lead them in battle.
Looks good - his torso seems a little overly-elongated though?
inre: modularity/resin options - if you're committed to sculpting enough variants that I can have a properly sized faction with no repeat sculpts then I don't give two licks about modularity anymore.
Also not worried about resin, given how cheap your metals are. But I know if I collected resins during the Kickstarter then I would want to keep with resin for subsequent purchases. I'm fine with either option, but I'd prefer to stick with one once I start with one. So you might want to consider that if you do all-resin pledges during the KS. Though I might be the only person like that :/
The torso probably looks elongated because the line of the lion cloth tie is hanging as low as it can. The idea is that there was more girth to the hips when the person was mummified. Now his muscles have shriveled quirtre a bti and thus his garment hangs lower on his hips. At least that was the idea anyway.
I am goign to hold off on pics of the Empirials until I know whether or not they are going in to the KS campaign. I am tempted to show them off but I think I may have already ruined too much of the suspense. I will be previewing the Barbarians soon though.
Modularity. Well the experiemtn thus far seems to have worked btu I need to explore it abti further to really know whether or nto it will work as mroe options are added on.
The resins in the campaign will be a strictly limited thing, and there won't be resin LEs for every item funded. They will come with all the bells and whistles you might expect from LE items though; fancy box, art work, authenticity cards, etc.
I'd personally love to see a sculpting video/tutorial on some of these pieces- that alone would be worthy of a kickstarter.
Are these Procreate? Inspirational work- looking forward to seeing more.
Just to note: I find knowing what I can buy before I buy plenty suspenseful! Show me the barbarian range now and tell me I can buy them in X days, and I will be up that morning, credit card in hand hitting F5 as fast as I can.
hah hah Wehrkind. Not to worry there will be previews of the barbarians before th launch.
Plastic Trees....... The rules will be released in beta phase and the intent is to refine the rules as needed with the direct feedback from the testers. This is not to say that the game will be design by committee. There will be certain mehcanisms that won;t change, and the fluff certainly won;t change, but I do want everyone's feedback on the rules and how they work, whether or not they are fun or not fun, what is broken and needs fixing, what is clunky and needs refining, what is superflous and needs tossing out etc. I want players to feel liek they did actually have a direct influence on the development of the rules btu I also have a particular target in mind that I want to hit.
It the game just completely sucks then I will toss it out and go back to work makign whatever changes need be made to make the game great. Or I will hire some professional help ( KS funds allowing ) to make a great game.
My vision for the game is to do something that I do not see much of in table top gaming. It seems to me that for the most part players just move their models tot he center of the space and then roll dice until only one model is left.
I want to produce a table top game that feels a kin to a Chess game where every move counts and strategy plays a vital role but a game that also maintains a high level cinematic action, fast pacing, and just enough chance to keep everyone guessing.
I have never liked the number of checks that are involved in most games or the amount of back and forth that seems intrinsic to table top gaming. In this game almost every test si resolved in one roll for both sides. All of the pertinent adjustments are factored in to that single roll and the results are the results. Models change position constantly through play both for the sake of advantage and as the result of the course of the action. Position plays a role in the results of a lot of tests and terrain features are as important to melee as it is to ranged combat tests.
Magic is powerful and difficult to use. Magic use can also be just as dangerous for the caster as it can be for the target. The more powerful the magic the more dangerous to everyone it is. The more often a magic user casts spells the more likely it becomes that something disastrous will occur. Some actors can be affected simply by the presence of magic to positive or negative ends. Some of them have random reactions to magic.
Anyway, I think I have said enough for now on the rules. Got to get back to work. I have a LOT of packign and shipping to do so that I can get back to sculpting and writing!
Magic is powerful and difficult to use. Magic use can also be just as dangerous for the caster as it can be for the target. The more powerful the magic the more dangerous to everyone it is. The more often a magic user casts spells the more likely it becomes that something disastrous will occur. Some actors can be affected simply by the presence of magic to positive or negative ends. Some of them have random reactions to magic.
If I can give some pre-beta feed back, be really, really careful with this. One of my biggest complaints with WHFB is the magic system, in that you can't rely on it for small effects, and the big effects are so powerful tend to end the game, one way or the other. It forces you to take an expensive caster, but half the time the caster won't do what you want, or even anything interesting. Basically the magic system is so random and dangerous it just stops being fun, and you can't even squeeze many good combos out of it because of the bloody random spell generation and never knowing if your spell will go off or be blocked. Warmachine has a much nicer system in that spells just work, but you might have to make attack rolls or put yourself in a bad position to use them.
Just a suggestion. I know lots of people that really loath the current WHFB magic rules, so steering clear of that might be a good plan. Some randomness is probably ok, but players need to feel a fair bit of control and not like the whole game comes down to the result of a single die roll in the middle of turn two.
Ugh I get frustrated just thinking of some of the games I have played where after 45 minutes of set up the game was decided by a mage blowing themselves and their unit up, largely before a blow was struck.
In this system Magic Users are vital to every force. They can cast small effect " spells " or big effect " spells ". Teh small effect spells are less dangerous and easier / faster to cast. the bigger the effect the more magical energy needed so they tend to take longer, require more specific circumstances, and pose a bigger threat if something goes wrong. Not every casting requires a check for miss firing. Sometimes a miss fire can be the result of direct meddling by another caster or intervention from some other source.
Small effect spells are pretty much a guaranteed effect everytime they are used. Tragets might be able to mitigate the effect to some degree based on their attributes or other elements of their character, but for the most part spells always just work.
Big effect spells can be interrupted during their casting btu doing so is very dangerous for everyone involved because it can create disastrous area of effect effects or can create other dangers.
Big effect spells can also go wrong on their own based on a number of other factors that I do not want to go in to too much just yet. rest assured using a Magic user will be fun and keep gameplay tense.
You will HAVE to use magic regularly throughout game play or one reason or another. It is part of the character of the setting.
You won't be popping off spells left right and center or relying on magic solely for success but it will play an integral role in every force the same as melee fighters and ranged support troops and champions. You will have to make a lot of tactical decisions with your magic use because you will never be able to cover all the bases you need to cover with every decision / action.
Ok, that sounds better then. If I can choose when to take risks that makes it a lot more sound, and letting little buffs and such always work gives the lads something to do other than wait to accidentally explode
I am really interested to see how your do champions etc too. I have been noodling over that a good bit in the home brew Jin and I have been working on. Seems like a super tough thing to really get right balance wise in a mass combat game.
Yep the champs are going to be an issue for testing. They are nto so much an issue if the numbers of the opposing warband are greater than what is typically a skirmish sized game. But being that I want to try to keep the model count conservative then I need to owkr on the Champs a bit better.
Oooh oooh! Barbarians! YEA! Especially as I just convinced myself I don't want to afford the Darklands Kickstarter, so I am awash with theoretical funds for future projects. If they involve cool Celtic or Pictish style barbarian things.
Or Grecian style Dwarves. And centaurs. And boobs. I have broad interests.
Well, there will nto be any Celtic or Pictish style barbarians.
It is difficult to quantify the character of the world I am building by pointing out specific real world allegories and comparisons. There are inspirations from almost every ancient culture in the known world BUT saying that the barbarians are Celtic or Zulu or Aztec would not be any more accurate than saying they are NOT Celtic , Zulu, or Aztec. I am drawing inspiration from many sources and trying to create something totally fresh and new.
That said there definitely is an overall guiding theme of the world. I guess " Ancient Distopia " is the best way to describe it. Suffice it to say that you will see elements of many familiar mythos combined in strange ways combined with elements of unfamiliar mythos.............
I will try to get a new preview up sometime today.
This "world" needs to be actually "built" --- meaning written down and recorded for all to see, perhaps backed up by some concept art... not just locked inside your mind Tre
I have notes scattered over 100's of spiral bound books written over the past 19 years. I am trying to get it all together now. I think this will be a very fluff driven effort. I think that the rules will be popular once they are refined and the miniatures are certainly a huge element as well btu it is the fluff that was my first labour of love with this. I am actually kind fo antsy to get it out there finally.
I woudl liek to write a series of books but it depends upon the actual success of the miniatures. There will be some accompanying fluff pieces with the KS campaign. One for each faction with some over arcing narrative connecting them together.
tre manor wrote: There will be some accompanying fluff pieces with the KS campaign. One for each faction with some over arcing narrative connecting them together.
I think this is a great place to start. Out of the notebooks that only you can see, onto the internet where all can marvel at the world these miniatures inhabit
tre manor wrote: I have notes scattered over 100's of spiral bound books written over the past 19 years. I am trying to get it all together now. I think this will be a very fluff driven effort. I think that the rules will be popular once they are refined and the miniatures are certainly a huge element as well btu it is the fluff that was my first labour of love with this. I am actually kind fo antsy to get it out there finally.
Fluff is awesome, apart from cool figures its what makes us invest in games. Im looking forward to peeking inside your head with this kickstarter
grefven wrote: Great sculpt, Tre. But the cloth looks a bit bottom-heavy.
The cloth is heavy, but I think it lends some balance to the composition given the chunky weapon. The cloth is swaying a little bit to the opposite side from the weapon. But it does look a little weird because it gives a sense of a dress even though when you look it is clearly a voluminous breach clout.
Still, great model with lots of fun detail. The models in this whole range are going to be a real joy to paint up.
A little closer, but it is still not fully decided just yet.
Glad that you all liek her. I am also planning a " restored " pin up version of her. Not just for the sake of it either, her restored form is part of the faction fluff and it changes her game rules.
Dave Needham is a genius artist you should see some of the stuff he has made for the Amazons. Well generally all of it is genius but i am particularly smitten with the Amazon stuff right now.
Dave Needham is a genius artist you should see some of the stuff he has made for the Amazons. Well generally all of it is genius but i am particularly smitten with the Amazon stuff right now.
Yes - we should see that. Maybe you should do something about that
tre manor wrote: Dave Needham is a genius artist you should see some of the stuff he has made for the Amazons. Well generally all of it is genius but i am particularly smitten with the Amazon stuff right now.
Speaking of Dave Needham, how is the special resin limited art piece coming along that we paid for when you released Ysra and Belegast in resin? I am still eagerly awaiting for it for soon 2 years.
I realized this did not get posted in this thread. Here's a remake of the HelsVakt hordesmen from Red Box KS1. Its highly hinted that these will be the barbarians for this campaign.
Those look really nice. I am really hoping this stuff hits KS in mid- late May, so I know what sort of income I have over the summer and can plan to spend it all. Too much later than that and I might get lured away into some other shininess.
I know its a little bit more out there than your standard barbarians, but I would totally love it if you went a shade or two more Dark Sun, with some non-metal weapons and chitin/bone armor.
Well.......those Helsvakt are just Helsvakt. The underlying anatomy is what WAS going to be the modular barbarians for the new project ( I will be trade marking the name soon as I get the money so we can start referring to it by name. ) however the modularity seam would have been too obvious so I decided rather than ditching the sculpts I would use them for the reboot of the HelsVakt.
The costuming is VERY different from what will be seen on the barbarians in the new project. I showed off a few of them this weekend at ReaperCon and had a lot of very excited feedback about the project. So I am even more excited for it now! I am goign to be very very busy this week getting as much work on it done as possible, so be on the lookout very soon!
Incidentally Rikus of Tyr was the original inspiration for the barbarians WAY back in 1995 when i first began imagining this world.
None just yet. I am trying to finish up the Mierce Commission which should be done today and then I need to finish up my new hordesmen which shoudl also be done today or tomorrow and then I get back on to this full time.
I usually have a LOT of stuff going on at one time. The Helsvakt are a very needed paycheck that will allow me to invest myself more deeply into this new venture once the sculpting for the HelsVakt are done.
i was afraid that peopel might think I had dropped this one but much tot hte contrary. I knew that without a source of income in the very near future I would have to rush this one out before it ws actually ready and then it would not be all that I know that it can be. The HElsvakt KS will also allow me to hopefully afford to brign on some more 2D art talent.
I actually JUST set down one of the pieces for this project.
I REALLY want to share more WIPs and setting / game info about it but I think if I do I will be giving away the game at this point.
Right now I am working on a set of universal grunts which players can use to bulk up their war bands. These grunts are basically the same in their game stats and equipment regardless of which faction is using them but they get different advantages or disadvantages based on who is using them.
There will be a few different sets of these universal auxiliaries with each one offering a different set of tactical options and constraints. This way I can add more of the various races/ sub factions to the game right out of the gate without having to bulk out an entire faction for them.
Besides those I am also working on a new hero in two differetn versions Mounted and a foot. I promise I will try to get something posted to show somethign new soon. i just want to be sure that I am really getting closer to the debut before showing off a lot.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Incidentally I am aiming this for debut in August / September.
tre manor wrote: The torso probably looks elongated because the line of the lion cloth tie is hanging as low as it can. The idea is that there was more girth to the hips when the person was mummified. Now his muscles have shriveled quirtre a bti and thus his garment hangs lower on his hips. At least that was the idea anyway.
First off I want to say that I'm really excited about this project. I think your work is awesome, I've been an R E Howard fan since I was a kid and your models have always appealed to me.
I can see what you're trying to do with the large undead model and while I think you've successfully slimmed it down I think lower torso doesn't look bony or dessicated enough. I think if you made the hip bones more prominent and had the loin cloth hanging off the bony hips in more of a V shape rather than straight horizontally it would convey the gaunt mummification effect better.
Thanks Prestor Jon I agree. That figure could have been better. I am working on a different version of it now. I am glad you guys are still thinking of this and looking forward to it. I am workign to get it ready as soon as I can but I do not want to rush it out before it is properly ready to go.
I promise I will post something up this week. This is still a little ways out unfortunately. I think that this is going to need more than just a whole bunch of cool figures to work. I do not want people to think that this will be another line of figures with no game to support it. I AM still working on the figures......depending on what I decide is the design ethic for the line i may or may not have a LOT of work done.
I keep second guessing the amount of detail I am sculpting ont eh figures. My tendancy is toward a LOT of detail, but i want to keep the figures accessible to all levels of painting skill / dedication.
I keep second guessing the amount of detail I am sculpting ont eh figures. My tendancy is toward a LOT of detail, but i want to keep the figures accessible to all levels of painting skill / dedication.
Maybe just back off the detail level a little then? I love Freebooter minis for instance - but they are sometimes so crammed with detail that they can feel like a real slog to paint. (I spent like 10 hours on Pehuah, the Amazon for instance). So I'm increasingly of the mind that less is more when it comes to detail on minis. 2-3 areas with some well thought out detail is better than having the mini just slathered in pouches, feathers, knives, etc.
I keep second guessing the amount of detail I am sculpting ont eh figures. My tendancy is toward a LOT of detail, but i want to keep the figures accessible to all levels of painting skill / dedication.
Maybe just back off the detail level a little then? I love Freebooter minis for instance - but they are sometimes so crammed with detail that they can feel like a real slog to paint. (I spent like 10 hours on Pehuah, the Amazon for instance). So I'm increasingly of the mind that less is more when it comes to detail on minis. 2-3 areas with some well thought out detail is better than having the mini just slathered in pouches, feathers, knives, etc.
I can say that the greens I've seen are fething awesome, and very paintable. There's a whole lot of really cool stuff in the range.
I would strongly favour toning down the pouches etc, both for the reasons already mentioned, and because it just takes away from what seems to me to be the strongest point of the RBG range: the awesome 'realism' (insofar as applicable to some of the more fantastic tropes) and detail in the sculpting of the basic body structure and clothing and whatnot.
I'm a big fan of the care you put into the muscultare Tre. So I'm hoping you stick to your old style or even improve on it! All of your last few kickstarters have showed off some pretty amazing looking figures.
The detail I am referring to would be muscular definition and complexity and texture detail and definition.
How does that hurt accessibility for painting though? Speaking as a thoroughly mediocre (and extremely impatient) painter myself, I generally appreciate that kind of detail and feel it helps me paint to a better standard, often in the same amount of (or sometimes even less) time.
The detail I am referring to would be muscular definition and complexity and texture detail and definition.
How does that hurt accessibility for painting though? Speaking as a thoroughly mediocre (and extremely impatient) painter myself, I generally appreciate that kind of detail and feel it helps me paint to a better standard, often in the same amount of (or sometimes even less) time.
This is where I'm at as well. I find the addition of straps, buckles and pouches just for the sake of breaking up a plane (I'm looking at you Mantic) is what drives my inner impatient child to come out.
greywulf wrote: I'm a big fan of the care you put into the muscultare Tre. So I'm hoping you stick to your old style or even improve on it! All of your last few kickstarters have showed off some pretty amazing looking figures.
Well said greywolf, thats the reason I was drawn to your last ks tre, lots of other companies cater to simple figures, the details and styling of yours makes them stand out.
well this is all very very reassuring then. I keep wrestling with the idea fo trying to move my style in a less hyper realistic direction for this project.
Ok. This makes me feel much better. I will post a preview by the end of the week.
Just to chip in, the I absolutely love the "realism" of the anatomy on your miniatures. It's what draws me to your fantasy range, and I am really hoping for the same style for the new range.
The sort of detail I don't like is pointless "bling" festooned all over a model, cluttering up it's lines and making it a fiddly pain to paint. Stuff like The Keeper for example has lots of detail on his skin and muscles, but only a few pertinent "props" to get across his position as an evil magic using kinda guy. And he's awesome because of it.
Pouches and stuff have their place too, of course. Like a heavily laden soldier on campaign or something.
When I finally put two and two together with who Tre was and what he's sculpted, I hadn't realized just how many of the figures he made for Reaper I already owned.
Please keep things the way they are Tre! Just get to those danged lizard men! For a collector of nonhuman models, there's only so many airbrushed minivan Frazetta inspired barbarian warriors I can take, no matter how awesome they may look!
Da Boss wrote: Just to chip in, the I absolutely love the "realism" of the anatomy on your miniatures. It's what draws me to your fantasy range, and I am really hoping for the same style for the new range.
The sort of detail I don't like is pointless "bling" festooned all over a model, cluttering up it's lines and making it a fiddly pain to paint. Stuff like The Keeper for example has lots of detail on his skin and muscles, but only a few pertinent "props" to get across his position as an evil magic using kinda guy. And he's awesome because of it.
Pouches and stuff have their place too, of course. Like a heavily laden soldier on campaign or something.
One of the things I like about Tre's fantasy range is that characters generally have reasonable bags, equipment, and gear. Most character carry a dagger, swords have sheaths, characters carry mugs, water skins, bedrolls, and appropriate-looking pouches, sometimes with a fantasy adventurer slant.
For example, "Big Bernard" carries a bedroll and sack over one shoulder, a possibles bag across the other, a belt pouch, and a dagger. But the gear doesn't seem to clutter the model (to my eyes).
I agree, maybe I didn't get that across. I have some of the more heavily laden Aenglish models, and I love them. The first models I bought from Tre had lots of kit on them. But like you say, it's kit that makes sense and compliments the models.
I want to add my voice to the chorus that doesn't want Tre to change. I've always wished there was a good game out there that consistently adhered to an aesthetic like Tre's. I want miniatures that have the realism of good historicals like the kind produced by the Perrys and FireForge but without the rigidity of being tied to historic facts. Something that lives in the happy space between historical accuracy and cartoonish silliness. I want realism with the freedom to embrace the rule of cool.
In terms of painting, IMHO as a mediocre painter I've always found it easier to give realistic textures and amounts of gear a servicable paintjob than models that are seemingly festooned with details just for the sake of it. What gives me nightmares are areas that need freehand work to look right and areas that are crammed with details that need to be painted individually so they don't blend together.
Prestor Jon wrote: I want to add my voice to the chorus that doesn't want Tre to change. I've always wished there was a good game out there that consistently adhered to an aesthetic like Tre's. I want miniatures that have the realism of good historicals like the kind produced by the Perrys and FireForge but without the rigidity of being tied to historic facts. Something that lives in the happy space between historical accuracy and cartoonish silliness. I want realism with the freedom to embrace the rule of cool.
In terms of painting, IMHO as a mediocre painter I've always found it easier to give realistic textures and amounts of gear a servicable paintjob than models that are seemingly festooned with details just for the sake of it. What gives me nightmares are areas that need freehand work to look right and areas that are crammed with details that need to be painted individually so they don't blend together.
If reasonable detail is placed where it makes sense to be, it is far easier to get it to look right even with just an okay paint job.
I never paint the eyes of my miniatures, for example, because eyes are really hard and annoying to do. But because we all know what a human face looks like, that detail comes across perfectly fine even if it is mixed into the general highlighting of the face writ large without being specifically picked out.
well to be honest miniatures are basically viewed int he same spacial relativity as a person would be viewed from about ten feet or more away. And at that distance you would not be able to make out the details of someone's eyes anyway.
On topic......... I am very comfortably relieved by the feedback here. This means I have actually completed a lto of work after all!! I will preview one of the mutants tomorrow to give a better example of the level of detail I am talking about.
Late to the convo, but I want to assure you that body texture is never bad, and makes it a lot easier to paint. With nice muscle and skin detailing a base coat and wash can go really far. I got really nice results with my old Rackham Drunes doing that en masse with just a little over brushing. I love love love your lines exactly because they match that style and scale so well.
tre manor wrote: well to be honest miniatures are basically viewed int he same spacial relativity as a person would be viewed from about ten feet or more away. And at that distance you would not be able to make out the details of someone's eyes anyway.
On topic......... I am very comfortably relieved by the feedback here. This means I have actually completed a lto of work after all!! I will preview one of the mutants tomorrow to give a better example of the level of detail I am talking about.
C'mon Tre, make with the sneak preview update already!
dodicula wrote: Did this guy deliver on his other kickstarters yet?
I received my Trollforged stuff, and was overall quite happy. Lots of the issues came from his sculpts and the material not being good fits for each other. The trollforged stuff seems to work better with larger/bulkier pieces, and the thin spikes caused some troubles. In addition, there were other production related problems. But he was consistent with his updates on the progress, and fulfilled it despite taking a loss (I think).
Looks like he finished the orcs/dwarves and norse ones too, but I wasnt in on them so cant say for sure.
dodicula wrote: Did this guy deliver on his other kickstarters yet?
Honestly, it was only his first one that was using TrollCast material that took forever to get delievered, but is now completely fullfiled to the backers. The others are coming along just fine.
dodicula wrote: Did this guy deliver on his other kickstarters yet?
Honestly, it was only his first one that was using TrollCast material that took forever to get delievered, but is now completely fullfiled to the backers. The others are coming along just fine.
I have backed all of the RBG Kickstarter projects, and all of my pledges have been fulfilled except for the latest one which was scheduled for a estimated August, 2014 delivery. Tre says that these pledges will be fulfilled this month as he is only waiting on Valiant to complete the production run, which will only be a one month delay.
The project was funded on June 22nd, so that's a really quick turnaround.
tre manor wrote: Today I promise! I have just nto wanted to break down the sculpting set up for photography just yet btu I am goign to be doing so today.
dodicula wrote: Did this guy deliver on his other kickstarters yet?
Honestly, it was only his first one that was using TrollCast material that took forever to get delievered, but is now completely fullfiled to the backers. The others are coming along just fine.
While true, note that his second campaign (which was metal only) was finally completed (as in when the update was posted that the last package was shipped) almost a year overdue. Fairly standard for Kickstarter, but it's worth noting. His latest two campaigns have been smaller, already sculpted for the most part, and thus fulfilled closer to on-time. A good model for the future, I think!
As a side note, I just traded for the OOP Bloodmaw and Horsebane RBG model (goblin riding a bear) from jah-joshua on Dakka, and I'm thrilled with it! Tre sure can sculpt
I have been in all of Tre's KSers and will be in his next one as well. Troll Forge was a nightmare but a learning experience for Tre. His last 2 KSers went without a hitch. I support Red Box 100%.
I've backed all but the lastest RBG kickstarters.
First one, I was lucky and got my stuff on time. Others had a longer wait, but Tre did eventually make sure everyone got what they ordered (AFAIK!). The fact that he did this despite the trouble he faced shows integrity.
Second one, also got my stuff, it was also a bit late. But not so much as the first one.
Third one, got my stuff, dead on time.
It seems Tre is learning from each KS and getting better at making time estimates.
What I will say is that the product is excellent. The scultping and the casts are lovely, and in some ways pictures online don't do justice to the delicacy and detail on the miniatures. I'm very happy with my choice to back RBG kickstarters despite the hiccups along the way.
I have backed number 2, 3 and 4. Number 2 and 3 I have in hand, very happy with everything; number 4 I'm not the slightest bit worried about. I certainly hope to be able to back number 5.
Looks great. As with the orcs you did before, I've never been a fan of the typical GW look, but your versions have a lot of character and realism. In the case of GW mutants, ie. Chaos spawn, it usually involves tentacles, horns, appendages that are even more malformed and disproportionate than the typical GW human, or any combination of these. This Bua Bua mutant however looks believably realistic. And the musculature and textures are ace.
But anyways, I'm far more partial to females. Have you by any chance completed any of the female cult priestesses that lord over the lizardmen, Tre? Want to show one off? And do we have a rough eta for the launch?
greywulf wrote: Looks great. As with the orcs you did before, I've never been a fan of the typical GW look, but your versions have a lot of character and realism. In the case of GW mutants, ie. Chaos spawn, it usually involves tentacles, horns, appendages that are even more malformed and disproportionate than the typical GW human, or any combination of these. This Bua Bua mutant however looks believably realistic. And the musculature and textures are ace.
But anyways, I'm far more partial to females. Have you by any chance completed any of the female cult priestesses that lord over the lizardmen, Tre? Want to show one off? And do we have a rough eta for the launch?
There might be some female Bua Bua .
I like that hand weapon personally. Not only does it look good on its own, that Bua Bua dude is clearly not, you know, in some kind of uniform. I think the weapon ties in well with the rest of the Barbaria range that I have seen, and in terms of helping to visually establish a cohesive fictional universe, I think that weapon works.
greywulf wrote: Looks great. As with the orcs you did before, I've never been a fan of the typical GW look, but your versions have a lot of character and realism.
Amen.
I have no ready use for that Bua Bua but damned if that's not a nice model I'd like to own. And, fortunately, that's enough of a reason to kickstart it.
Thanks guys, and yes the use will eb had int he game itself. The reason this is takign so long to launch is that I want to have PLENTY of content for players right out of the gate. I could launch with just 2 factions but I think that launching with at least 4 so that there is plenty of variation and tactical flexibility. And of course the rules themselves will take time to ready properly.
I think having most of the sculpts completed before launching is really smart! It's served you extremely well in the last two campaigns, so no worries from me on waiting a bit more. Particularly if it helps with rules development... is that going to be outsourced, or what are your plans for that?
rules will definitely just be " ready for playtesting " at launch. I want a good public beta to run for at least a few months before I go into printing a full rulebook.
Thus far I have been writing the rules myself but I may be outsourcing some of it.
tre manor wrote: rules will definitely just be " ready for playtesting " at launch. I want a good public beta to run for at least a few months before I go into printing a full rulebook.
This is great to hear - and should help make sure that the end product is a fun, enjoyably game!
When you say that each Bua Bua is unique - does that mean that won't be true for other races? I can't stand clones for small model count skirmish games.
Will they operate in units, or is each mini going to be a stand-alone thing?
oh no the figures for this game will all be unique. When I say that each Bua Bua is unique I mean that not all of them have four arms and spikey skin or five eyes. Some have one eye, some have three, some have two. Some have four arms some have three, some have two. Some have knobbly skin some have spikes, some have fur, some have smooth. etc.
There will be " grunts " figures in each faction which will eb a bit less unique but one thign you will NOT see in this game is a lot of repeat figures. My biggest advantage over other manufacturers is that I am the sculptor and that I am very fast. So I want to play to those strengths with this effort.
Expect the KS to launch with between 8 - 12 unique figures per faction and 4 factions.
Oh - excellent. Great to hear! I've pledged to limit myself to two KS per year from now on, and I've been waiting and waiting for this one to be the second (after seeing the earlier awesome previews).
Thanks guys. The Bua Bua are each going to be unique btu there are thus far as few regular themes. Lots of skin texture and multiple limbs.
This guy's hand weapon is probably goign to change though. The one he is holdign now seems a bit incongruous.
I like the look of the Bua Bua. The spikes remind me of the Erebius you did for Darklands. I agree with your take on the hand weapon. I think the spear looks good and to me the speartip would look great painted up to be chipped flint or obsidian so I think that would be a good way to go with the hand weapon. Make it look similar to the speartip but elongated and with some rawhide wrapped around the part being used as a grip. A plain wooden warclub could also look good as the model gives off a low tech scavenger vibe to me but I don't know if that's something you want across all the Bua Bua or just how this guy happens to be done.
I'd be interested to learn any info on the factions you have planned even if you're not ready to show any more sculpts.
just a wee little bit. ia m working on it but I have a new fantasy KS in the works that I am trying to wrap up before really getting back on this one full time. I want to get this on KS this year but I also want to get the standard fantasy line expanded a little more and get more content for this game done and ready to go.
I think that this could be the next big thing so I do nto wan tto jump the gun and botch it in a hurry. Rest assured though that if it does not go up before December it will go up by January.
I feel like having a fantasy line and this (also fantasy) line for RBG might be a little redundant... is there no way to combine the two? I am a HUGE fan of your recently sculpted orcs, although I know there were some issues with the arms being swappable, etc... but if you could use what you've already done, much of which is excellent, it would avoid fracturing your base and give people more options all at the same time.
Note that I'm not saying that every RBG fantasy model needs to have a place in your project, but for none of them to have a place seems needlessly exclusive, in my view. Consider if GW were to make another sci-fi property that didn't dovetail with 40k at all! An extreme example, but you see what I'm getting at- no reason to compete with yourself! So, if there were any way at all to consolidate the two, it would make a lot of business sense to do so, I think.
RiTides wrote: I feel like having a fantasy line and this (also fantasy) line for RBG might be a little redundant... is there no way to combine the two? I am a HUGE fan of your recently sculpted orcs, although I know there were some issues with the arms being swappable, etc... but if you could use what you've already done, much of which is excellent, it would avoid fracturing your base and give people more options all at the same time.
Note that I'm not saying that every RBG fantasy model needs to have a place in your project, but for none of them to have a place seems needlessly exclusive, in my view. Consider if GW were to make another sci-fi property that didn't dovetail with 40k at all! An extreme example, but you see what I'm getting at- no reason to compete with yourself! So, if there were any way at all to consolidate the two, it would make a lot of business sense to do so, I think.
RiTides has a point here.
Also Tre would it be possible to give us an idea of what your next fantasy KS is going to include? I understood that it's going to be a big project. Do you have a release plan of it?
And is it in your future plans any rule system to use your fantasy minis for? I would really like to see this. A skirmish game in which I could use Red Box miniatures. What would be very interesting is some background story for each faction/race. Maybe I ask for too much...
Does any forum member has some suggestion of a game system that I could use Tre's minis, until he releases his own game? I am thinking of something with round bases (ideally having two barbarian races, an evil and a good one ). Any idea would be welcomed!!
I feel like one of the strongest points Tre has going is his aesthetic- his "standard" fantasy line has a very strong look and feel of dark ages europe fantasy to it. I get the impression this line is going to be something different and a bit more unique, so I am happy for the two lines to be separate.
While I understand your point RiTides and Corgan combining the two into one IP would destroy the identity of both. The existing line ( which I will need to name officially ) is a traditional fantasy world and the new project is decidedly NOT that. Combining the two would be exactly like combining Dark Sun and GreyHawk. It just won't work.
As for rules I have indeed hired on professional help. Officially. I do not want to say too much before we have something to show but the rules for the existing fantasy line are underway.
The upcoming KS is already approved ans is simply awaiting me to press the launch button. I want to get a little more work done ont he figures though and I want to finish fulfillment on KS4 first. Which incidentally will conclude by monday.
Right now I have a set of new Njorn Adventurers ready to go and one new Aenglish heavy Armoured man at arms. I want to get a few more Aenglish ready to go before launch and get started on a few new Aelfar as well. We shall see how the energy flows though. I want to be certain beyond any doubt that I can deliver everything by Christmas so that si going to inhibit the scope a little bit.
Having two lines seems fine - but having two games? That does seem like overkill. Especially since the minis from the fantasy line are stock enough to work for a lot of existing games.
tre manor wrote: While I understand your point RiTides and Corgan combining the two into one IP would destroy the identity of both. The existing line ( which I will need to name officially ) is a traditional fantasy world and the new project is decidedly NOT that. Combining the two would be exactly like combining Dark Sun and GreyHawk. It just won't work.
As for rules I have indeed hired on professional help. Officially. I do not want to say too much before we have something to show but the rules for the existing fantasy line are underway.
The upcoming KS is already approved ans is simply awaiting me to press the launch button. I want to get a little more work done ont he figures though and I want to finish fulfillment on KS4 first. Which incidentally will conclude by monday.
Right now I have a set of new Njorn Adventurers ready to go and one new Aenglish heavy Armoured man at arms. I want to get a few more Aenglish ready to go before launch and get started on a few new Aelfar as well. We shall see how the energy flows though. I want to be certain beyond any doubt that I can deliver everything by Christmas so that si going to inhibit the scope a little bit.
If I can express a wish I would really like to see some bow/ranged "unit" for the Norse and Aenglish similar to the Craven of the Evil barbarians. Ideally for the Elves also
(Maybe even some Aenglish with heavy armour? ... Ok, ok I stop)
I understand the reasoning behind keeping the current RBG fantasy line separate from the new project. Taking two lines with wildly different aesthetics and background and trying to shoehorn both into one cohesive game would make the game suffer.
Hopefully, there will be a nice simple tight ruleset for skirmish gameswith the current RBG line as that's what I really want to get my hands on. My barbarians and Norse need to get some tabletop action going on. Plus a good ruleset would probably let me use models from either line if both lines essentially humans/humanoids with similar weapons and armor then it wouldn't be difficult to proxy models from the new project or create profiles for them.
On that note I'll second the request for Norse archers. Valda has the Craven to back her up but Svanhild has nobody.
And if we're going to wishlist, I'd like to put out the idea for objective type models for the new project. If it's going to be a warband skirmish game I think having cool objects and/or NPCs available to make the games more varied and narrative would be awesome.
Yeah, I guess that's what I should have said- making a ruleset for yet-to-be-completed models, when you've got a whole line that would really benefit from a ruleset, could divide your fan-base a bit. But I see your reasoning on keeping the two "worlds" separate.
Yeh the game rules will probably be univeral with a few aesthetic changes between them.
Objective pieces and non coms in the new project. It will have both as central parts of the gameplay. I am planning terrain features as well.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh yes and there is one Njorn Archer already in the new set for KS5 and I will also be placing a stretch goal to fund additional Njorn archers and Aenglish archers.
Oh yes and there is one Njorn Archer already in the new set for KS5 and I will also be placing a stretch goal to fund additional Njorn archers and Aenglish archers.
I know you've got a currently running KS Campaign for other stuff currently, but this is the one I'm really looking forward to, so I was just wondering...
not yet......... but after the current KS stuff is off to the moldmaker this is front and center. I am " warming up " and making a financial buffer with the current KS to be able to really go all in on this KS.
I am aiming the launch of this project to be somewhere between the end of January and mid March with a firm delivery date of May.
The plan is to produce a good starter set for four factions, the " Barbarians", Undead, Mutants, and Amazons, and a few faction specific support ( alt tactics ) figures and a few universal support sets that can be used by all four factions.
Each starter set will have a Champion mounted and afoot or monstrous and mortal, a Sorceror or Shaman or Witch or Priest, a set of melee minions ( 2 - 6 ) and a set of either ranged minions or special effect minions ( 2- 4 ). The pricing will depend on the materials needed for the champions and the costs to produce them.
The support ( alt tactics ) figures will be either heroes or special minions, and will be funded as stretch goals.
I will have a set number foSG's and will only produce what I set otu to produce and deliver by May. The campaign will be short ( 15 days or less ) and everythign will be ready to mold upon completion of the campaign. This will probably be about 48 to 54 miniatures total.
There will be a beta rules set included with each faction starter with a more finished rules set planned for August or September of 2015. I want to get this stuff into the gaming community in time for AdeptiCon and Gen Con and REALLY make something special in 2015.
This WON'T be just another fantasy game. This is going to be somethign truly special.
none yet. all o fthe art is still very fluid at this point. There are broad thematic elements that are set in stone but i am creating a world out of whole cloth here without using any particular real world cultures as " rules ".
Abotu the most I would say is to expect less clothing and armour rather than more. And everything will have a very strong early bronze age late stone age feel to it. And also a lot of animal elements in the armours and equipment. Hide armour, Bone armour, wooden armour etc.
All kidding aside, I'm jonesing for some "Conan"-esque miniatures, and I don't think the current Kickstarter from Monolith is going to deliver the miniatures I'm looking for - though I'd be happy to be proven wrong.
These two quotes from Tre (taken from the last two updates on the most recent campaign, but only the parts dealing with what's coming next) indicate that another project for his existing line will be up first:
Tre Manor on Dec 19th wrote: In the mean time I am working on getting my next efforts together. I took the last month off to gather my wits a bit. I still have the energy btu I am not quite certain what to do with it first. I still need to finish out the Njorn but I get a lot of calls to brign back the Helsvakt Armoured elites and Horsemen and then there are other aspects of the HElsvakt that could o with expansion...namely the craven and HelsMaidens. Then I also have been thinking a lot on expanding the Infernals as well. The old armoured Helsvakt elites ( gynnade krigare ) were just too expensive to produce and sell for a reasonable amount to make units with so if I were to revisit that idea the figures woudl be less modular and probably slightly less bulky. And I have been wanting to make some Njorn Equivalent figures as well.
Right now the next KS will be structured a bit differently to previous campaigns. I am going to open the campaign with a bit higher of a funding goal to cover the initial offerings but those initial offerings will be a bit " bigger ". I want to open with two factions, and have a monster or mounted champion for each and a set of character / elite troops for each. You will be able to buy any of the figures as individuals but you will also have the ability to pledge for " full sets " including the champ / monster and troops for each faction or for both factions together, and you will be able to pledge for sets of the troops separately as well. I am going to plan to make one mounted champion or Monster champion, one set of " regular " ( probably 4 with limited modularity maybe ) foot troops, one set of " brutes" ( probably 2 or 3 ), a set of ranged troops ( probably 4 ), a Special troop type ( like 1 monster or 3 elites ) and one or two additional characters ( probably a mage and a melee or missile character ) per faction for at least 2 factions....at least that is the ambition. I can do it if I have you all behind me. I am still working out the pricing for the sets but I want to try to keep the Full Monty ( Champ + 3 troops + 2 characters ) at or below $100 per faction.
This will be a 20 campaign and will launch in early January.
Right now I am most inspired to create some Helsvakt and Njorn BUT the Infernals could always use a little expansion as well.
So what do you all want to see?
Tre Manor on Jan 7th wrote:Now.....on to KS 6......as of now I am working on Hordesmen war staff and a mounted Helsvakt Champion. I would like to open the next campaign offering the Champion, the hordesmen Warstaff ( captain, musician, and standard bearer. ) and new set of 4 or 5 armoured elites.....which I have yet to chose a name for as Gynnade Krigare never really rolled off the tongue well. These will be offered as individuals and in sets. I won't be launching the next KS until i ave these first figures sculpted and ready to go to the moldmaker so do not expect the next KS until sometime aroudn the end of January.
So, sometime soon will see the launch of another campaign for RBG miniatures. I'm not opposed to this at all just noting it here since it does mean this project isn't up next, although perhaps it's still being worked on in the background.
Just wondering; any chance a backer who's got their stuff could take a few minutes to do a comparison shot showing the relative heights of the new models, ideally with a GW human in there somewhere?
All the figs I had my eye on are up for order on the webstore, but between the slightly confusing pictures(it's difficult to discern relative size when the models appear to often be on different base sizes/the "sculpting pads" are different sizes) and a the KS comments noting the(intentional) size differences, I'm a bit leery of putting in an order and finding half of it is too big/small for my purposes.
I may be in the minority, but I'd like to see the figures in the next batch be a little on the larger size, especially if there's monstrous stuff involved.
Or if we do end up see a Tre- sculpted Hyborean, I hope the guy is a bit larger than life.
Tre's sculpts really pop with detail, and it would be cool to see that at a slightly larger scale.
Maybe it's just my bad eyesight and too much squinting at tiny metal dudes that's the issue?
Yodhrin wrote: Just wondering; any chance a backer who's got their stuff could take a few minutes to do a comparison shot showing the relative heights of the new models, ideally with a GW human in there somewhere?
All the figs I had my eye on are up for order on the webstore, but between the slightly confusing pictures(it's difficult to discern relative size when the models appear to often be on different base sizes/the "sculpting pads" are different sizes) and a the KS comments noting the(intentional) size differences, I'm a bit leery of putting in an order and finding half of it is too big/small for my purposes.
I have uploaded these before but here is an example of size. The impression that these miniatures are small is wrong. This guy is from a KS of last year:
I'll take some photos and put up a quick review and size comparison of the new Njorn miniatures on my blog. Won't be up until sunday though, have to many other things to do!
Thanks corgan & jorny, but I'm more concerned about how the basic humans equate to the slightly odder models and to GW; for example, will Bad Betty or Magda from Afar fit in with my existing Mordheim models? When people talk about Tradkarl and Derek the Dim being "bigger", what does that actually mean - relatively speaking are they tall/bulky guys, or almost-Ogres?
Yodhrin wrote: Thanks corgan & jorny, but I'm more concerned about how the basic humans equate to the slightly odder models and to GW; for example, will Bad Betty or Magda from Afar fit in with my existing Mordheim models? When people talk about Tradkarl and Derek the Dim being "bigger", what does that actually mean - relatively speaking are they tall/bulky guys, or almost-Ogres?
I guess by "basic humans" you are referring to the Aenglish (and Aelfar). I didn't receive the items of the last KS yet, in order to make some comparison of Ugly Betty with some Warhammer minis but I hope to have them by the next days. I would say that considering the fact that Njorn are wider and bulkier humans than the Aenglish, the latter would be more or less the height of Lotr figures. Aelfar are a bit further smaller.
I will try to make some photos with Ugly Betty after she arrives.
The new Aenglish from the KS fit in fine with my plastic GW Brets. They are the same height as the Men at Arms and bowmen but slimmer less chunky and better detailed. Red Meghan fits in great her realistic proportions make easy to identify as a woman without looking tiny. Bad Betty is tall slightly taller than the Brets which is accentuate d by her relatively slender realistic build. She definitely looks like a bigger than normal human which makes sense since she's a half blood. The Njorns are the same size as the Aenglish and both are slightly smaller than the Helsvakt hordesmen from the previous KS. I don't have any older RBG minis to compare them to.
Tradkarl is big. He's taller than a space marine. To me he looks like an unarmoured true scale space marine size but without the powerlifter muscle bulk.
Well, until Tre' actually starts showing more useful scale on his store, people will still either think they're tiny, or buy his tiny models thinking that they're the more common heroic scale - and then assume that they're all tiny from that point onwards.
23 photos, so way more than I'll post here, but here's a couple of the key ones.
People are often upset about the smaller base sizes that Tre' tends to use, and find them misleading. Even I find them misleading and basically not useful when it comes to trying to work out what I'm buying.
This pic shows them on the 20mm bases they come with, as well as a traditional 25mm round, and both 20mm and 25mm squares.
One of several "rogues gallery" shots.
Zombicide, Red Box Games, Citadel, Studio Miniatures, Last Night on Earth, Harlequin, D&D Miniatures, Reaper (Bones)
Okay, I slapped this together this morning. Some of my RBG miniatures are in storage, most notably my Helsvekt and pre-KS Njorn so this comparison is not 100% comprehensive. There are also no Aelfar in this photo.
All miniatures on 25mm rounds except for the halfling, dwarf, and goblin, which are on 20mm rounds.
Looking at this, I'd say that Tre's line has remained pretty darn consistent. The Aenglish are smaller and slighter than the Njorn, and have remained very consistent in proportions. The Njorn are larger than the Aenglish and a little slighter than the Helsvekt. There was a little bit of scale creep in KS 3, but as that KS included a grand total of 6 miniatures, the slightly larger size of those miniatures can, in my view, simply represent particularly tall Njorn. The Half Orc is bigger than the Craven, but probably of a size with a 'normal' Helsvekt warrior. The Orc is larger and bulkier than all of the rest of the miniatures.
With respect to the undead, the Drauger are larger than the Walking Dead, but the Drauger as I understand it represent Njorn undead, and so this size difference is consistent with Tre's line as a whole.
My impression was always that the Aenglish were of a size with medieval Western Europeans whereas the Njorn are more consistent with Scandinavian peoples and the Helsvekt are somewhat preternaturally large peoples. I believe that Tre's original idea was that they had some Giant blood in them. The Aelfar are shorter and much slighter than the Aenglish, They are closer to Magda and Olsvalter the Aged in the photo above (the two wizards) in terms of average height/build.
The little folks are all about the same size, but the Halflings are generally far less built than the Dwarves, who are proportioned almost like little Njorn. The Goblins are mean, rangy, half-starved creatures with musculature and body fat similar to the Craven.
That's extremely useful weeble thanks. Looks like Magda and Derek will probably work OK, but Betty and Tradkarl would end up far too tall for what I wanted them for if I'm judging them right(assuming they're sized to just barely fit the 25mm bases the site says they're supplied with).
Oh what I wouldn't give to have it become common industry practice to include a ruler shot for every model in a webstore.
Hey guys! Sorry for thelong lapse here. I AM indeed still working ont his project but it is going to require a little more investment to really make it what it needs to be so I am going to be launching one more KS before this " other " project. It IS still coming though not to worry.
Right now I am in the midst of a big house move that has NOT gone smoothly. We are now in Greenville South Carolina and only just secured a rental house after spending the past week living out of a hotel with a moving truck full of all of our stuff. Finally though we are in and unpacking and I have my new studio room painted in a color that won't set my retinas on fire....the previous color was bright yellow....no kidding. SO starting Monday I will be back on the job and working on the first offering for the next KS.
Sorry to hear about the rough move Tre, those are never fun! Good luck getting everything in order!
Kind of an odd request, but would it be possible to get some armored Aenglish with visors lowered during the next campaign (or even a head sprue). I really like the dark age/ early medieval influence to them (I tend to run my fantasy roleplaying campaigns with an early medieval tech level), and I have been searching for ages for something like that with an "armored elite" look to them.
I would really like something like that in your line, because while the line has a influence from historical cultures, they have a much more distinctive fantasy feel to them then plopping down some historical Viking or Saxon miniatures (that and I also do prefer your sculpting).
tre manor wrote: Hey guys! Sorry for thelong lapse here. I AM indeed still working ont his project but it is going to require a little more investment to really make it what it needs to be so I am going to be launching one more KS before this " other " project. It IS still coming though not to worry.
Right now I am in the midst of a big house move that has NOT gone smoothly. We are now in Greenville South Carolina and only just secured a rental house after spending the past week living out of a hotel with a moving truck full of all of our stuff. Finally though we are in and unpacking and I have my new studio room painted in a color that won't set my retinas on fire....the previous color was bright yellow....no kidding. SO starting Monday I will be back on the job and working on the first offering for the next KS.
Wha...?!?
I used to live in Greenville South Carolina!
We loved it there - from 2003 to 2006 - but moved back 'home' to Massachusetts.
Check our Borderlands (for gaming) and Lieu's (for fantastic Asian food!).
Also, hurry up and finish up all that 'other stuff' and get going on this project!
HAH HAH! Well sorry I " missed " you Alph, we just got back from a stroll through Downtown....This place has a TON of restaurants to try. I have seen Lieu's though! I will be sure to put that one on the list, and I also found Borderlands the other day driving around and made a note to visit it as well.
Heavy Aenglish with visors down. Yeh I really should have made the recent Aenglish more modular with optional closed helms. I do plant to expand the Aenglish again with closed helms but I am not sure exactly when I will be able to get to them. First I must get the new Armoured Elite HelsVakt and Mounted hero done and my " Mercenary of Reknown " done as well for the next KS. I am open to expanding any line from the RBG catalogue that people want to see funded! We shall see.
Extremely useful Weeble. Some of those are larger than I thought. So basically if I stick with the Njorn and the Helsvekt I will get guys on the bigger side of Tre's line?
Particularly the recent Kickstarter for the 6 Njorn models, Gallahad (note that in corgan's pictures, the Njorn model's stance is significantly wider than any of the minis it's being compared to - he's quite bulky! (Wehrkind mentioned not being able to fit them on 25mm bases).
Still dreaming of the day when Tre gets something like the "Forgeworld running empire model" to put in all his shots (like Forgeworld does with their warhammer fantasy monsters, so they all have a sense of scale). But until then, posts like these are Very helpful, so thanks for the effort corgan / Azazel / weeble!
Gallahad wrote: Extremely useful Weeble. Some of those are larger than I thought. So basically if I stick with the Njorn and the Helsvekt I will get guys on the bigger side of Tre's line?
Yea, absolutely. Tre's miniatures are basically the same general scale as Hasslefree miniatures. They are pretty big, they're just finely detailed and more realistically proportioned. You'll find that the Aenglish will fit comfortably on their 25mm round bases and stand as tall as a neighborly 30mm+ miniature.
The Njorn are usually a little taller and more muscled, so they look less dissimilar alongside more 'heroic' miniatures. The Helsvekt are a bit taller and more heavily muscled still.
Now, the Aelfar will potentially look weird next to more 'heroic' miniatures. This is because they are like D&D elves, shorter, slighter, more delicately proportioned. They have thin faces and supple limbs. Consequently, the differences between this style of sculpting and exaggerated 'heroic' proportioning are more glaring.
Heavy Aenglish with visors down. Yeh I really should have made the recent Aenglish more modular with optional closed helms. I do plant to expand the Aenglish again with closed helms but I am not sure exactly when I will be able to get to them. First I must get the new Armoured Elite HelsVakt and Mounted hero done and my " Mercenary of Reknown " done as well for the next KS. I am open to expanding any line from the RBG catalogue that people want to see funded! We shall see.
That would be awesome Tre! I definitely wouldn't mind seeing some new HelsVakt either- I love my hordesmen!
Gallahad wrote: Extremely useful Weeble. Some of those are larger than I thought. So basically if I stick with the Njorn and the Helsvekt I will get guys on the bigger side of Tre's line?
Yea, absolutely. Tre's miniatures are basically the same general scale as Hasslefree miniatures. They are pretty big, they're just finely detailed and more realistically proportioned. You'll find that the Aenglish will fit comfortably on their 25mm round bases and stand as tall as a neighborly 30mm+ miniature.
The Njorn are usually a little taller and more muscled, so they look less dissimilar alongside more 'heroic' miniatures. The Helsvekt are a bit taller and more heavily muscled still.
Now, the Aelfar will potentially look weird next to more 'heroic' miniatures. This is because they are like D&D elves, shorter, slighter, more delicately proportioned. They have thin faces and supple limbs. Consequently, the differences between this style of sculpting and exaggerated 'heroic' proportioning are more glaring.
What models are you wanting to put Tre's next to?
I'd say (if you have them) the Njorn with Chaos Warriors, Chaos Marauders, Empire Guys, etc. And the Aelfar with various flavours of Elves from whichever manufacturers you have.
Automatically Appended Next Post: And a Space Marine.
On Topic..........This new project is the ultimate beneficiary of the other RBG KS projects to come before it. I have learned a LOT about the KS process and refined my goals and plan for this new project. I admit I do have some rather grandiose plans for it ( minis, rules, terrain, cards ) but I am keeping the first offering as realistic as possible and I am focusing on fast delivery first and foremost.
The success of Monolith's Conan has galvanized my dedication to this project. Not that it will be another " Conan" but that obviously there is sufficient interest in the genre to warrant special focus.
  Sorry I have been out of pocket lately. I have been in the midst of a cross country house move. It did not go smoothly to say the least. We were unable to rent a truck of appropriate size to carry all of our belongings so we had to prioritize what we carried int eh first and will have to go back for the rest. Then the house we were going to rent had issues that made it unacceptable to live in so we had to spend a week living out of a hotel room looking for a place. We did find a house to rent but it is smaller than the house we left ( not by much but just enough ) so now we are trying to settle in with less space. it has been difficult but we are OK now and getting back to work.
  I have gone through my messages and noted any mispacks and will be spending the rest of this week correcting those issues. I assure you that that won;t happen again. Undertaking fulfillment AND a house move was clearly more than I should have been trying to handle at one time. I imagine that correcting the mispacks will be finished by friday.
  Now that I am back to work I am gearing up for my next KS effort which I plan to launch by Monday the 9th. This time around I am seeking first to finish out the Helsvakt army with the most requested units. The first goal will be to fund a mounted Champion and 5 armored elites. The armored elites will all be single piece castings and will be available as a themed set of 5 and the Champion will have both mounted and afoot versions. After those I would like to fund a Helsmaiden hero both mounted and afoot. After her a unit of helsmaidens afoot. After that war staff for the Hordesmen, and after those a couple of Jotunn.Â
 Beyond those?? Well who knows? We shall have to see what comes.
 Oh and I feel the need to also create a sullen eyed, black haired hillman, mighty thewed and iron tempered to do battle against the hordes, so expect that as one of the early offerings as well.
 Cheers everybody and thanks for backing again!
 tre'
I'm guessing Tre's still recovering from his move.
I dont mind it being a bit late, hopefully it'll run till my next payday (27th)
I got my ks figures last week, their really crisp sculpts and I'd love to jump in again on the next one.
See this post from last page, he's got another standard RBG Kickstarter launching shortly, and this project will be his next after that I believe:
Spoiler:
RiTides wrote: These two quotes from Tre (taken from the last two updates on the most recent campaign, but only the parts dealing with what's coming next) indicate that another project for his existing line will be up first:
Tre Manor on Dec 19th wrote: In the mean time I am working on getting my next efforts together. I took the last month off to gather my wits a bit. I still have the energy btu I am not quite certain what to do with it first. I still need to finish out the Njorn but I get a lot of calls to brign back the Helsvakt Armoured elites and Horsemen and then there are other aspects of the HElsvakt that could o with expansion...namely the craven and HelsMaidens. Then I also have been thinking a lot on expanding the Infernals as well. The old armoured Helsvakt elites ( gynnade krigare ) were just too expensive to produce and sell for a reasonable amount to make units with so if I were to revisit that idea the figures woudl be less modular and probably slightly less bulky. And I have been wanting to make some Njorn Equivalent figures as well.
Right now the next KS will be structured a bit differently to previous campaigns. I am going to open the campaign with a bit higher of a funding goal to cover the initial offerings but those initial offerings will be a bit " bigger ". I want to open with two factions, and have a monster or mounted champion for each and a set of character / elite troops for each. You will be able to buy any of the figures as individuals but you will also have the ability to pledge for " full sets " including the champ / monster and troops for each faction or for both factions together, and you will be able to pledge for sets of the troops separately as well. I am going to plan to make one mounted champion or Monster champion, one set of " regular " ( probably 4 with limited modularity maybe ) foot troops, one set of " brutes" ( probably 2 or 3 ), a set of ranged troops ( probably 4 ), a Special troop type ( like 1 monster or 3 elites ) and one or two additional characters ( probably a mage and a melee or missile character ) per faction for at least 2 factions....at least that is the ambition. I can do it if I have you all behind me. I am still working out the pricing for the sets but I want to try to keep the Full Monty ( Champ + 3 troops + 2 characters ) at or below $100 per faction.
This will be a 20 campaign and will launch in early January.
Right now I am most inspired to create some Helsvakt and Njorn BUT the Infernals could always use a little expansion as well.
So what do you all want to see?
Tre Manor on Jan 7th wrote:Now.....on to KS 6......as of now I am working on Hordesmen war staff and a mounted Helsvakt Champion. I would like to open the next campaign offering the Champion, the hordesmen Warstaff ( captain, musician, and standard bearer. ) and new set of 4 or 5 armoured elites.....which I have yet to chose a name for as Gynnade Krigare never really rolled off the tongue well. These will be offered as individuals and in sets. I won't be launching the next KS until i ave these first figures sculpted and ready to go to the moldmaker so do not expect the next KS until sometime aroudn the end of January.
So, sometime soon will see the launch of another campaign for RBG miniatures. I'm not opposed to this at all just noting it here since it does mean this project isn't up next, although perhaps it's still being worked on in the background.
yes.... I PROMISE the " Other " world project is next up. I just wanted to get the HelsVakt wrapped up as I get a LOT of emails about it. So I will fund whatever I can sculpt over 30 days and then move on to the Other Project there after.
And yeh I am still in the settlign in phase of the mvoe trying to catch up to the order back log and settling mispacks from the KS fulfillment.
I know this project here is making me seriously consider not pledging for that other Conan project...
Well, I'm pretty sure that the Conan KS will deliver at least 12 months late and wind up not meeting folks' expectations. It smells just like lots of other KS campaigns that promised big and failed to live up to the hype. What amazes me is that people keep saying, oh but it will be different this time. Shadows/Sedition/Relic/etc. failed for reasons. This one is going to be different.
Well, I'll believe it when I see it. Delivered by October...what are they smoking?
Well all I will sayis that OCtober IS a VERY optimistic delivery date for Conan.
As for this project......the Mutants are a special pleasure for me btu to be honest there are goign to be LOTS of things that will spur the imagination here..... If Wobble's reaction to a few of the prototypes was anything to go by anyway.
RiTides wrote: I love that your device always changes his name to wobble
And this means he's seen prototype pics... and held out on us! Get the tar and feathers!!
I saw them in person, actually. I didn't take any photos.
They're ridiculously cool though, and I think the models will make great sets for skirmish games. I saw several unique sculpts for the same 'type' of miniature, so if the game size is modest, there should be few, if any, repeats.
One of the things I really liked about the mutants, for example, was that the three 'ranged' mutants, armed with the same type of weapon, were wildly different.
I cannot help but think " Weebles wobble but they don't fall down. "
Yeh my goal is to try to keep repeats to a minimum in the game. I also want to create a wide enough range of models for each faction that two players could play the same factions against each other and have a very similar make-up of abilities in their warband but still each have a unique ( or mostly ) warband. This will make it more expensive on my end but oh well. I want to create something truly special. Making a ton of money is great and all but I do truly prefer to create something truly spectacular with longevity and presence.
Any update as to when the Helsvakt KS will launch? I need more horde to hoard.
I'm also very excited that the special project will kick off in the near future. It will be great to have RBG minis that have a game designed around them. I still haven't settled on a skirmish game to use with the Njorn and Helsvakt I already have.
I AM working on getting rules and fluff ready for the existing RBG line. Just one of the MANY things on my plate right now. Patience.
The new Helsvakt KS launches between friday and monday depending on how much work I can get done between now and then. I have three of the new Armoured elites just abpotu finished and 2 more under way but I also want to get the mounted hero in there from the beginning as well.
Sounds great about the multiple sculpts per unit type on the next project! That definitely has me more interested, as I dislike using repeat sculpts unless they are modular... but for something like your bonebacks, there were enough variants that repeats were hardly necessary, which makes modularity unneeded. So, looking forward to seeing more when the time comes!
tre manor wrote: I AM working on getting rules and fluff ready for the existing RBG line. Just one of the MANY things on my plate right now. Patience.
The new Helsvakt KS launches between friday and monday depending on how much work I can get done between now and then. I have three of the new Armoured elites just abpotu finished and 2 more under way but I also want to get the mounted hero in there from the beginning as well.
Why not use the same rules and "world" - with the existing RBG stuff simply located on a different continent? Kind of a Warmachine/Hordes arrangement?
.... Well when you see the world and read the fluff you will understand why very clearly. The worlds are very very different and one could never exist along side the other without both losing their identity and plausibility.
In fact where the current RBG line is very much a world based on historical and physical plausibility this new world is anything but on both accounts.
Teh rules also reflect the character of both worlds. Magic for instance would function very differently in each world and play different roles in the character of the worlds.
Hopefully you can write up or have written some background to explain that when seriously getting into the next project, as I'm sure a lot of people would be wondering similarly otherwise. I'm up for a new world, I just need to know what that world is
Oh yeh. The fiction is every bit as important as the minis here. And while I wont ( couldn't ) deny the influences of Conan and John Carter I think you will find as much influence from Dreamquest of Unknown Kadath and other such works by Lovecraft..... I do not want to presume any kind of stature but I LIKE to think that the fiction this game and minis will be based upon would be something that might result from a collaboration between Burroughs, Howard, and LoveCraft with the one and only admonition being no " technology" or at least nothing recognizably mechanical.
I hesitate to call it pulpy or even fantasy because that conjures images that I do not think fit this setting. This is going to be fresh and different.....I just hope I do nto go TOO far with the " originality ".
tre manor wrote: Oh yeh. The fiction is every bit as important as the minis here. And while I wont ( couldn't ) deny the influences of Conan and John Carter I think you will find as much influence from Dreamquest of Unknown Kadath and other such works by Lovecraft..... I do not want to presume any kind of stature but I LIKE to think that the fiction this game and minis will be based upon would be something that might result from a collaboration between Burroughs, Howard, and LoveCraft with the one and only admonition being no " technology" or at least nothing recognizably mechanical.
I hesitate to call it pulpy or even fantasy because that conjures images that I do not think fit this setting. This is going to be fresh and different.....I just hope I do nto go TOO far with the " originality ".
Well, Howard and Lovecraft were contemporaries and friends, so...sounds fitting!
There's a fair bit of 'Cthulhu-esque' in many Conan stories too!
Damn - the more I hear about this one, the more I want it to launch already!
This is a project very near and dear to me so I am looking forward to it finally coming to fruition. I am VERY happy that you guys are awaiting it as well!
tre manor wrote: I AM working on getting rules and fluff ready for the existing RBG line. Just one of the MANY things on my plate right now. Patience.
The new Helsvakt KS launches between friday and monday depending on how much work I can get done between now and then. I have three of the new Armoured elites just abpotu finished and 2 more under way but I also want to get the mounted hero in there from the beginning as well.
Don't worry, if there's one thing parenting has taught me, it's patience. There's no rush, I probably won't have my RBG stuff painted until like the middle of 2017 at the earliest. And that's not counting the fact that I'll be buying more between now and then.
In regards to the super duper secret project, I think it's awesome that you're taking the time to develop the world/background/fluff to have it accompany the game. Please do consider having it proofread by multiple people, I'm sure there's plenty of people who would gladly volunteer to help with that. It's always a shame to see interesting and intriguing settings and stories brought low by typos and inconsistencies.
Still working on it guys! I am still trying to wrap up the Helsvakt KS and that has dragged otu a little further than I had hoped. BUT I am wrapping it up over the next 2 weeks. The Chosen are done the berserkers are done the helsmaidens are done ( well they need weapons ) and the Craven only lack their hands and weapons, the Helsrider mount needs skulls and the riders need spikes and horns, and then the Jotunn needs his hands and weapons still. The War staff still need a bit of work btu that won;t take too long. It is really just a bunch of really small things that take a long time all together.
Aaaanyhoo......On topic here...... Even though I have all that going on I am still working on the SDSP as well.
I guess it is not exactly common knowledge but I recently decided to make the jump to digital modeling...... The reason for this is that I think that the best way to produce the SDSP is in plastic. I am a bit undecided as to whether I will be using hard PVC or hard plastic. I have received some samples of hard PVC that are truly very impressive in terms of detail but there are a lto of benefits to producing in hard plastic as well.
Hard plastic is MUCH more expensive to set up BUT I like hard plastic a LOT and it will allow for more modularity and ease of assembly. It is going to all come down to the level of detail that I can achieve in hard plastic and in the extent of pose I can use in the figures.
The starter sets will offer a master, a special minion ( which varies by faction ), and a set of standard minions. These standard minions will be modularly fitted to have universally interchangeable parts which will allow players to assemble different options of minion type. Depending on the faction there will be different options available. There will be options to make missile minions and melee minions in different number depending on the faction. Amazons for example will be missile heavy while the mutants will be more melee than missile and barbarians will have an even mix....undead are pure melee.
Backers will also be able to buy the modular minions separately as well.
The first stretch goal will hopefully fund the first faction champion for each of the four factions. These champions will either be large monster or a medium monster with a mounted hero and version of the hero afoot as well.
Beyond that I have plans for various characters and minions sets for each of the first four factions but I want to cover the basics first.
I also don't plan on letting the offerings go too berserk. I want instead to focus on funding what I can deliver reliably in a short time frame. I will have plans for a lot of stuff but there will be a point where I will stop adding new items to the offering for the sake of swift and sure delivery. I can always run a second KS to expand the line as needed as I do have plans and designs for 8 different factions and several different characters and minion types and terrain as well.
The ideal goal by campaign's end will be the starter sets ( 1-3 masters, 1-4 special minions, 6-12 standard minions ) Champion set ( 1 -2 miniatures ), second special minion set ( 2-4 smaller beast minions ) second standard minion set ( 3-6 elite faction minions varied by faction ), and at least 2 other character sets for each of the first four factions so between 16 and 24 unique figures per faction......so a lot of work and a lot of funding, but perfectly do-able.
I am also working on terrain pieces to go with these but I am thinking those will best be left to a separate campaign.
I am REALLY excited about this and I am REALLY looking forward to getting this underway. This is just the beginning as well. I have a LOT of ideas for this world and game that I think a lot of people would be really excited about.
I figure it may take a month or two to get all of the modeling and adjustment for manufacturing done. Then maybe another month to get all of the marketing materials for the campaign done. So I am looking at maybe August or September to launch the KS.
As I have said before the rules at launch will NOT be the final version of the rules. The KS version will be the beta version which I would prefer to test via the supporters of the campaign. The rules will be playable and working but I think ti would be best to test the rules with as wide a market as possible before committing rules to a book printing.
I am working on finalizing the official title of the project and getting it properly protected. Hopefully soon I will have something more to actually show btu I do nto want to get too far ahead of the actual campaign. I promise though, this is Priority A-1 after the helsvakt are done.
Nice update! PVC actually appeals to me more here just due to the cost, lead time and difficulty of getting models made in HIPs. Very excited to follow your progress and hopefully pledge when the time comes later this year! Although I am looking forward to seeing the Jotunn finished first (and receiving it, of course )
that's real exciting stuff. I was always interested in this game, but the suposedly metal miniatures made be a bit reluctant, since I hate metals with a passion. If you go with HIPS, i'll have to spend an insane amount of money
I love metal and this is why I have every mini of your last 5 kickstarters (well the of last one not yet). But I would support a project for HIPS minis or for Wrath of Kings PVC quality as you mentioned.
PVC is tempting because I can do more with the poses without having to worry about draw and draft line ( for hard plastic tooling when details are not faced directly into one half of a mold they soften as they get further away from the direct inward facing. ) but HIPS allows me to do more with modularity and assembly is FAR easier.
Costs are widely different between the mediums and that complicates planning.
I know that people universally seem to prefer HIPS to PVC but PVC really has come a long way in the past year or so.
It is especially challenging as you've established a certain high level of quality with your sculpts and 'brand' and the wrong 'formula' PVC could be...disastrous.
My preference would be:
HIPs --> "real" resin --> Metal --> PVC
THough I'm certainly open to PVC if you can also crack the 'PVC Formula'...
Well I think that the formula is cracked, there are just certain points to be kept in mind when sculpting for PVC. Certain details need more exaggeration and some elements are better left omitted from design to avoid problematic areas in the final casts. All of the PVC I have cleaned up have cleaned up pretty well in areas where the mold line crossed relatively smooth planes. So bearing that in mind to be careful with details crossing te mold plane I think the clean up woes can be mitigated in the design phase.
The PVC models that I've seen that look good are the chunky Wrath of Kings ones. But the lithe models still suffer. Also, they used a different plastic (I think HIPs?) just for the weapons, as PVC turns sharp weapon blades into butter knives.
So, I do think PVC could work in some ways, but you would have to go with beefier sculpts, and things like spikes which are on many of your models would not come out as sharp... which may not be an issue really, but the weapons could be unless you had them made separately like Wrath of Kings did. I don't suppose there's any chance you can team up with them but they definitely were ahead of the curve on it... and I think HIPs is really a non-option due to it's complexity and how difficult it is to sculpt for, as you say (not skill in sculpting details, but just how restricting it is and how careful you have to be for a model to be moldable in it).
As Alpharius says, "real resin" certainly has it's appeal (and I actually got a great contact as AdeptiCon if you were interested, who do resin casting for some other minis companies and are excellent!) but even for that, I think things would need to be a bit chunkier than some of your metals have been. A lot of it is sculpting for the medium, again as you say.
But get that Jotunn sorted first (I know you will!)
The "newest" PVC I've worked on is stuff from PP that is still 2-3 years old. So I'll trust Tre's judgement on cleanup and whatnot. (and on advances made in the past year or so)
PVC isn't a dealbreaker for me regardless, but I know for a lot of people it is. I just figured if Malifaux could "crack the code" for making profitable HIPS for low model count games others could follow in their lead. (And really, I think 5 -10 years from now everyone will be using HIPS anyway) .
RiTides wrote: The PVC models that I've seen that look good are the chunky Wrath of Kings ones. But the lithe models still suffer. Also, they used a different plastic (I think HIPs?) just for the weapons, as PVC turns sharp weapon blades into butter knives.
So, I do think PVC could work in some ways, but you would have to go with beefier sculpts, and things like spikes which are on many of your models would not come out as sharp... which may not be an issue really, but the weapons could be unless you had them made separately like Wrath of Kings did. I don't suppose there's any chance you can team up with them but they definitely were ahead of the curve on it... and I think HIPs is really a non-option due to it's complexity and how difficult it is to sculpt for, as you say (not skill in sculpting details, but just how restricting it is and how careful you have to be for a model to be moldable in it).
As Alpharius says, "real resin" certainly has it's appeal (and I actually got a great contact as AdeptiCon if you were interested, who do resin casting for some other minis companies and are excellent!) but even for that, I think things would need to be a bit chunkier than some of your metals have been. A lot of it is sculpting for the medium, again as you say.
But get that Jotunn sorted first (I know you will!)
The Rhode Islander brings up some VERY good points - PVC kinda still blows for slender/regular human sized miniatures, and it really blows for sharp edges, poles, weapons, etc.
Everything I am hearing makes me excited, though the PVC thing makes me nervous I was happy with my trollcast (I know the delays made others unhappy) so I trust Tre's judgement.
I would be happy with either, and if PVC works well it could be really cool because it is quite durable and dynamic.
I am still hoping for some great looking Lizardmen from this project though
I'm cautiously optimistic here because I don't think Tre will release a dog BUT having said that, I've yet to be really impressed by PVC when used to make slender, human sized figures as well as hard edged weapons...
All fair points on PVC. It does still have some limitations to keep in mind.
I woudl vastly prefer HIPS and I am working with a partner who has committed to helping m to get the models right for production. it is nto impossible, but it is tricky. Still though it depends on what I can do with it.
The scale of the models may have to change slightly to make them work in plastic but I won't be making any drastic changes.
The style will also be somewhat different, again nothing drastic but slightly different. I want this product to have it's own look and feel.
Lizardmen...............Yes. They will be a prominent feature in the Amazon faction being the heavy troops of the faction and possibly a faction unto themselves as well at some future point. I am going to really wing for the fences with this project in terms of imagination. Where I abide by strict rules with my fantasy stuff, this is where I am going to spread my wings a bit.
I am wondering something and figured it best asked to be sure.
I want to launch with at least 4 faction sand have a 5th ready to go if the process allows. However I having difficulty prioritizing which factions to be 4th and which to be 5th. The reason it is important is obviously funding needs to be in place for it to work and production time is a primary consideration. I want to try to deliver this quickly if possible so I am purposely keeping the scope under control. I want each of the factions to have access to the same diversity of troops and characters so the way that goals will progress is that initially there will be 4 starter sets, one for each faction. So I want to be sure I offer the most broadly desired factions. The definites are the " Barbarians ", the Undead, and the Amazons, but then I hem and haw over whether the fourth faction should be the Mutants, or the beastmen, or the slave rebels?
So if you had to pick one of those only which would be the one you would pick?
I doubt we will see all of those as full factions in this KS BUT I will have at least one or two items from each ready as mercenary unit stretch goal add-ons if the funding far exceeds the necessary production for the 4 starter sets. I won't try to cram an additional faction if it does nto appear that the funding will allow for the full faction to be added to a full competitive level as the first four but the way the rules for the game are goign to be set up will allow for almost any faction to use models and units from other factions as mercenaries.
Four Factions will be VERY helpful as that seems to be the magic number to entice people into either buying all 4 OR buying one or two, knowing that there's enough 'variety' already baked in to hopefully guarantee (as much as these things can be guaranteed) a diverse gaming experience.
As for the 4th - I'd vote for Mutants, then Beastmen then Slave Rebels.
If you can also offer up concept sketches for the 'down the road' factions that aren't part of the KS but are "Coming Soon(ish)", that's often well appreciated too!
Thanks yall. Mutants are a pecial favourite for me so I lean towards them as fourth but I wnt to be sure I ask first.
I definitely want to introduce at least one character or unit from several different " factions " over the course of the campaign. The first non faction specific add-on WILL be a unit of slave minions as slaves are a universal element of the setting's culture. Therefore they are going to be found in almost any large warband. Though they will have differing point costs and abilities depending upon whom they are controlled by.
Id push off the slave faction, just because you already have two human factions, and aesthetically I imagine they are similar to barbarians/amazons (which are already going to be similar-ish). Go with the most visually distinct.
Have we seen any sneak peeks of the beastmen or the slave rebels? I don't recall. I liked the mutants, though, so they would be a good choice in my book.
I think Mutants are a definite 4th faction. For faction, I lean towards beastmen, but I'd like to know what they would look like and what sort of influences they are based on before deciding. If the slaves have a particularly cool look that might sway me.
Well the slaves are basically just humans with either no armour and crude weapons or scavenged armour and scavanged weapons.
Well there are a few different types of " beast " men planned. The first beastmen are monkey / ape thing men. very crude weaponry and no armour. Lizard men are technically a beast man race as well.
Aha, the beastmen are the ape-men you were talking about earlier. I'm quite interested in those, might put them before the mutants in my wish list then!
material is going to be hard PVC ala Wrath of Kings, PP, Relic Knights, etc. I will be sculpting tje figures with the limitations of the material in mind, not compromising on detail but trying to be sure that I avoid what I consider to be the most consistent problems which relate to design.
KS........ well this all depends on how long it takes me to get the initial sculpting done ( I am guessing about a month or two to sculpt everything I want to include in the campaign 10-15 figures per faction for 4 factions....... less for the bare essentials. 6-8 figures per faction. ) and get a hands-on quote from the manufacturers involved; plastic, cards, playmat ( hopefully ) boxes, dice ( hopefully ) etc .
Plus I will need to amass more art and get the fiction more thoroughly filled out. the rules will be a beta version at KS launch and probably for at least a few months there after.
PVC is definitely on some people's warning list- hopefully some of these newer kickstarters that have apparently "fixed" the material(Conan, 7 Sins) will put out something that will give people more trust in it.
Alpharius wrote: Not sure I trust Conan or 7 Sins yet as neither has released!
CMON seems to have solved most of the problems as seen in WoK (while using harder stuff for weapons and such) and some Blood Rage previews.
That's why I said hopefully they'll put something out. Concerning Wrath we knew beforehand they do larger models just fine(although iirc some had concerns with him as well), but it's the human-sized figures that a loss of detail is usually noted.
At the very least there will be a display again at Gencon. I believe they were production test models? Or just the Wrath?
I haven't seen the WoK stuff, so I don't know how well they use the material.
I've seen some pretty good detail on finely proportioned PVC though.
I'd be on the side of PVC being okay as long as attention is paid to where the mold lines end up. Mold line on a face is basically a deal breaker. Apart from that, it's okay I guess.
I'd also (probably fairly uniquely) be happier with dynamic monopose than hard to assemble multipart (I love my RBG Orcs but keeping the weapons in their meaty fists is a chore!)
I am in fact communicating with Dust Studios for the production on this project as well as the studio that handles a few other big name plastic lines. There will never be a mold line crossing a face on an RBG figure. Ever. I will take very special pains to make sure of this.
In fact I am trying to design the figures in such a way that parting lines will either be in areas where they will nto be easily visible or VERY easy to clean off. I am very well aware of the pains peopel have with PVC mold lines and I will take every effort I can to mitigate this.
Scale...... I am really nto sure that increasing the scale is really the right thing to do. However I DO see the need to change the way I do certain things to make the figure more painter friendly. CRoss compatibility is really not even a notion I have in the design for this game. It is going to be entirely it's own thing. this is nto fantasy with a new lick of paint this is a whole new sub genre with fantasy as it's root. Much in the same way that Kingdom Death of a new sub genre of Fantasy and Relic Knights is a new sub genre of Sci Fi. I do not mean to say that thsi will be SO far out of left field that you could not find uses for the figures in other games I am just saying that you will not look at these figures and think " Oh! That woudl make a great Dwarf Proxy or that woudl make a great Norse Barbarian proxy " instead you might look at these figures and think " Oh that would make a great primitive alien. " or " This will make a great Atlantean barbarian. " In some of these instances scale won't even be a consideration ( Mutants, Demons, and Lizardmen particularly ).
But just to allay any fears I am using the Zombiecide 1 figures as scale reference for the normal human proportions.
Detail in plastics........ This is something I have always harped on and been very very leery of through the metoeric rise of Kickstarter. I think that the main problem lies in design where many artists simply have not ( until recently ) had enough experience sculpting for plastic production to know how to avoid problems due to the process itself. I think that exaggerating certain features of the face ( part between the lips, depth of the cheeks from the brow and nose bridge, cut of the eyes etc ) I can avoid "nofacitis ". I have seen PVC figures with pretty damned good detail even if the detail is not as sharp as metal.
As for the figures themselves......Well some figures will be multi part kits which are goign to made in such a way as to allow people to pose and customize their forces. This has always been a goal here. I want people to tell their own stories with their war bands. I want people to look at warband creation in this game the same way a role player looks at character creation or party creation in a role playing game. Thsi will make balancing the system very difficult but I think it will be very rewarding to do so.
So a lot of the figures will be " kits " where people will be able to interchange heads, torsos ( with the upper arms attached ) hand options ( right and left forearms with weapons in hand ) legs and certain armor pieces and decorations ( shoulder armour, head dress elements, various decorative elements) etc to make their forces a bti more unique and personal.
There will usually be two or three different troop types with each of the types havign cross compatible parts. Obviously there will have to be some kits that will not interchange with ALL parts ( SOME heavy weapon fighters won;t be able to make use of all elements for example ) but or the most part all parts withint he same faction will interchange across that faction. So you could take a set of unarmoured legs and pair them with a heavy armoured torso, a bare head , one heavy armoured weapon arm on the right and an unarmored shield arm on the left and a particular back standard that might have a special game rule applied to it to grant it's wearer immunity to fire or the ability to safely leap the height of 5 men up and 5 men across once or twice per game or for a specific cost of action points ( magical jump pack ). Or maybe you give the same figure a demon mask that grants him a breath weapon attack or an aura of fear which reduces his enemies morale or melee skill?
These effects will be represented in card form BTW for some insight into how the game works. These cards will be " played " as expendable resources.
Aaaaaaaaanyhoo............. Yes there will be multipart kits to allow for customization in varying degrees. Some figures will be highly customizable and some will be less customizable ( heroes and special characters etc ) and then there will be some figures which will be single piece. These will usually be the cannon fodder figures or less prominent unit types, cultist acolytes and the Piteous Beset ( lesser undead ) for the Undead faction spring to mind.
Any multipart figures will always be fitted for easy assembly with plug an socket fittings, ball and socket fittings, piloted pin points etc.
Harder plastic weapons...... Again this is entirely possible but may ultimately depend on funding. Those harder plastic bits have to cast from a more expensive tool.
I am trying to build all costs in to the price though.
I am going to keep the price as low as possible. At first, the starter set might not seem like a fantastic deal ( I am figuring about $5.50 per figure in the starter set initially ) but if the funding allows the deal will get progressively better as more backers join in. I am going to plan that most stretch goals will add to the starter set with a very few add-on sets coming after the starter sets have been well built up and made a better value per figure. It will really all come down to the number of backers who join in. That said I am not planning this to need 1000's of backers to succeed. Right now, based on my estimates and what I plan to produce maybe 900 backers total will fund everything I have planned.
Also there WILL be early birds pledge levels. As much as I have bemoaned the practice I have come to understand it's benefit and usefulness. These early birds will offer a substantial discount on each set but will be very strictly limited and will of course grow in value with the development of the campaign.
The starter sets will include initially:
1-3 " masters " ( these are the leaders )
1-2 " greater " monster minions ( Specialists )
6-8 " lesser " minions ( grunts ) *
Each figure will have a character card included with it describing it's basic game rules. There would be other decks produced for items, spells, powers, effects, events, terrain, scenarios, etc. Each faction starter would also include a few faction specific item, spell, power, event cards.
So the intial barbarian starter might look like;
Shaman x 1
Demon Summons x 1
Lesser Warriors x 6 ( sculpt a + b + x 3 )
and expand as such;
SG 1 + Lesser demons summons x 2
SG 2 + Lesser Warrior Hero x 1
SG 3 + Lesser warrior alt sculpt c
SG 4 + Berserkers x 2 ( sculpt a )
SG 5 + Lesser warriors alt sculpt d x 2 ( 8 total figures per set )
SG 6 + Berserker hero
Each Stretch Goal would also expand ALL factions in funding. So no one would be sat waiting for " their turn " at a stretch goal.
THIS IS ALL STILL A WORK IN PROGRESS based on estimates without the actual figures on hand so these plans are subject to change but this is what I am planning right now based on months of research.
So anyway I need to get back to work. These figures won;t sculpt themselves!
