Can't wait to get my Sisters of Destruction!

 Starfarer wrote:


Besides, once they show the actual models of the new Mercenaries faction they teased in the Backer emails, people are going to start backing like crazy.

Hmn, I'm interested in those (post Kickstarter release). Well unless their too skimpy, I already had to greenstuff over one of Brother Vinni's models this month, I don't know if I can deal with resculpting cleavage for the immediate future...

Turns out a load of people I work with are getting into dust so decided to go with an SSU pack as I already have Allies and Axis lol

Great deal from Dust kickstarter - for every pledge of 100$ or more - free copy of Operation Achilles!!!

Offering the bunkers/strongpoints and the Horten @ $31 is a great deal imo. Postage rates are also decent.
Time to up the pledge.

Devoted of Slaanesh wrote:
Great deal from Dust kickstarter - for every pledge of 100$ or more - free copy of Operation Achilles!!!

That is good news!

 Wyrmalla wrote:

Hmn, I'm interested in those (post Kickstarter release). Well unless their too skimpy, I already had to greenstuff over one of Brother Vinni's models this month, I don't know if I can deal with resculpting cleavage for the immediate future...

Yeah, definitely no need to get a single squad from the Kickstarter if that is all you need. Will be cheaper online later. I'm not too worried about how skimpy these will be. Typically the female models are pretty low key in their miniature range, but the artwork and Paolo's entourage of cosplayers is another story.

Ok, the flier, gorilla, and terrain have me looking at this again...

 Starfarer wrote:

 Wyrmalla wrote:

Hmn, I'm interested in those (post Kickstarter release). Well unless their too skimpy, I already had to greenstuff over one of Brother Vinni's models this month, I don't know if I can deal with resculpting cleavage for the immediate future...

Yeah, definitely no need to get a single squad from the Kickstarter if that is all you need. Will be cheaper online later. I'm not too worried about how skimpy these will be. Typically the female models are pretty low key in their miniature range, but the artwork and Paolo's entourage of cosplayers is another story.

Well youknow I'd actually like to get into Dust Warfare, but the problem around here is that nobody want to pick up the game. I have the newer starter set which I bought as my flgs was selling off its Dust stock on the cheap and it was cheaper to buy that than the few bits and bobs I wanted individually. If the mercenaries are going to be their own faction and the aesthetic looks good enough I may just pick them up for looks. Are there any images of that faction available? I mean I assume that I could get away with converting every model to look how I wanted as they'll have a rag tag appearance (another think that's putting me off the game is that everything has to look so uniform, and well I really hate standardised looking models).

The Mercs aren't a faction. They're like Merc units in Infinity. Any army can take them.

Ah damn, so it wouldn't be feasible to make an entire force from them as they don't have the units available to them to do so? I mean I suppose one could get away with converting some regular Dust models to have a more ad hoc style to them, but that wouldn't be exactly like a pure mercenary force (I mean for one there wouldn't be the variety of having gear from all over the globe, but that could effect balance a tad). Hmn, I guess I'll have to wait out future releases and see what happens, though I'd like to see how the models are actually scraping up first (blacked out images aren't helpful at all).

Hmm. It never ceases to amaze me how all imaginary military forces in the (not so) near future seem to combine ridiculous minimum cup size requirements with an apparent severe shirt-fabric-shortage, but aside from that they're actually passable. Whether that's more of a comment on the quality of Dust Studio's work on these or on the sad state of affairs in the wargaming industry is perhaps best left as an exercise to the reader...

Not surprised that the Sisters all look like Real Dolls. Going by his FB posts, Paolo unfortunately has some very, er, outdated ideas about women. Still a little disappointing.

~Tim?

Clearly they are wearing Deflexion silicone chest plates.

The sculptor is merely thinking of their safety.

Let's not forget that feminists would also take issue with the all female unit being relegated to "cleaning" teams and frankly they'd have a point combined with all the rest of the above mentioned details. I anxiously await the "kitchen" team of all barefoot and pregnant models.

Paolo may be a rather skeevy guy, but I don't think pregnant women are one of his fetishes.

~Tim?

There's good sexism and there is bad sexism. This is good sexism.

It's entirely appropriate. It's weird 1947. If you can't take the cold get out of the Stalingrad.

 Col. Tartleton wrote:
There's good sexism and there is bad sexism. This is good sexism.

It's entirely appropriate. It's weird 1947. If you can't take the cold get out of the Stalingrad.

Um... they're not dressed for Stalingrad.

Hmn, meh? Argh, yeah the artist seems to have this idea that every woman need to be a pin-up idol. Most guys, bar the odd character, is wearing some sort of practical armour with full webbing, whereas that lot's wearing the bare minimum above underwear. Colour me unenarmoured. =/

 Col. Tartleton wrote:
There's good sexism and there is bad sexism. This is good sexism

Somebody needs to introduce you to Melissia. You two would get along fabulously.

~Tim?

 Bolognesus wrote:


Hmm. It never ceases to amaze me how all imaginary military forces in the (not so) near future seem to combine ridiculous minimum cup size requirements with an apparent severe shirt-fabric-shortage, but aside from that they're actually passable. Whether that's more of a comment on the quality of Dust Studio's work on these or on the sad state of affairs in the wargaming industry is perhaps best left as an exercise to the reader...

I'm more amazed that you're amazed!

Does this one actually have a chance to get to $500K?

 Alpharius wrote:

 Bolognesus wrote:


Hmm. It never ceases to amaze me how all imaginary military forces in the (not so) near future seem to combine ridiculous minimum cup size requirements with an apparent severe shirt-fabric-shortage, but aside from that they're actually passable. Whether that's more of a comment on the quality of Dust Studio's work on these or on the sad state of affairs in the wargaming industry is perhaps best left as an exercise to the reader...

I'm more amazed that you're amazed!

Does this one actually have a chance to get to $500K?

If not getting to $500k means the Sisters will never see the light of day, color me a happy man. I was hoping we'd get something cool for that stretch level, like maybe armor 4 Axis zombies. Instead we get a unit straight from an adolescent wet-dream.

~Tim?

 Wyrmalla wrote:
Hmn, meh? Argh, yeah the artist seems to have this idea that every woman need to be a pin-up idol. Most guys, bar the odd character, is wearing some sort of practical armour with full webbing, whereas that lot's wearing the bare minimum above underwear. Colour me unenarmoured. =/

What's the point of a fantasy universe where the women aren't hot and the men aren't rugged? That wouldn't be bad ass at all.

I'm not in love with everything DUST but I'm a fan of Paolo and I have been for a long time.

DUST is not remotely serious. In DUST every woman does need to be a pin up idol and every guy needs to look like he'd be the bad ass on a recruitment poster. That's entirely what they're going for.

Paolo is a Frazetta guy. I'm willing to bet money that this painting is why DUST exists.

Pretty much, right?

It is pin-up 40's art all around!

It is what it is, right? Seriously, that's what Dust and more specifically Paolo is all about. Know it going in and also know that your personal outrage isn't going to change it. I'm reminded of a long argument on another forum where someone was equally outraged that she couldn't play a female Space Marine in the Space Marine console/PC game and hurfblurf the background is bad they should change it for me.

 Azazelx wrote:
It is what it is, right? Seriously, that's what Dust and more specifically Paolo is all about. Know it going in and also know that your personal outrage isn't going to change it. I'm reminded of a long argument on another forum where someone was equally outraged that she couldn't play a female Space Marine in the Space Marine console/PC game and hurfblurf the background is bad they should change it for me.

"Personal outrage"? Talk about hyperbole. All I see is a little bit of weary headshaking spiced with an eyeroll or two. If you read that as outrage then maybe you need to learn to deal better with differing opinions.

~Tim?

Hey I didn't say I wouldn't buy them, they've just put me off bothering playing Dust again. Still how do they scale up against Hasslefree? Most Dust models are what 32mm? Tall anyway. Those don't look quite as much out of whack with 28mm though, or at least if they are they're just statuesque women, not giants, so I guess there's always uses for them with my Fallout stuff maybe. ...Possibly. ...If I can find them dirt cheap.

 Some_Call_Me_Tim? wrote:

 Azazelx wrote:
It is what it is, right? Seriously, that's what Dust and more specifically Paolo is all about. Know it going in and also know that your personal outrage isn't going to change it. I'm reminded of a long argument on another forum where someone was equally outraged that she couldn't play a female Space Marine in the Space Marine console/PC game and hurfblurf the background is bad they should change it for me.

"Personal outrage"? Talk about hyperbole. All I see is a little bit of weary headshaking spiced with an eyeroll or two. If you read that as outrage then maybe you need to learn to deal better with differing opinions.

hmm....

 Some_Call_Me_Tim? wrote:

If not getting to $500k means the Sisters will never see the light of day, color me a happy man.

Uh huh. No sign of outrage there. Nothing beyond weary headshaking or an eyeroll in "I'll be happy if they don't get to fund that".





Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Wyrmalla wrote:
Hey I didn't say I wouldn't buy them, they've just put me off bothering playing Dust again.

Not directed towards yourself. Directed towards Mr "I hope they don't fund."

Gotta admit, I just don't understand Dakka sometimes.

Kingdom Death has a giant genital monster and cartoonishly portioned female figures and nobody bats an eye. Dust makes a unit showing some cleavage in a pinup style and everyone loses their minds.

Seriously though, This unit isn't quite what I was hoping for, but nothing a little conversion work can't fix. Just need to slap some gas masks and peaked caps on them and they'll fit in with my Axis just fine.

 Alpharius wrote:


Does this one actually have a chance to get to $500K?

Probably. There is still over $100k from direct retail backers that haven't been added to the total, so it is actually sitting at over $400k right now. With the free copy of Achilles and all the other add ons this has turned into a pretty decent deal.

 Starfarer wrote:
Gotta admit, I just don't understand Dakka sometimes.

Kingdom Death has a giant genital monster and cartoonishly portioned female figures and nobody bats an eye. Dust makes a unit showing some cleavage in a pinup style and everyone loses their minds.

I'm not sure how you missed it, but there's plenty of 'outrage' in most KD threads!

It was just a joke.

 Azazelx wrote:

 Some_Call_Me_Tim? wrote:

 Azazelx wrote:
It is what it is, right? Seriously, that's what Dust and more specifically Paolo is all about. Know it going in and also know that your personal outrage isn't going to change it. I'm reminded of a long argument on another forum where someone was equally outraged that she couldn't play a female Space Marine in the Space Marine console/PC game and hurfblurf the background is bad they should change it for me.

"Personal outrage"? Talk about hyperbole. All I see is a little bit of weary headshaking spiced with an eyeroll or two. If you read that as outrage then maybe you need to learn to deal better with differing opinions.

hmm....

 Some_Call_Me_Tim? wrote:

If not getting to $500k means the Sisters will never see the light of day, color me a happy man.

Uh huh. No sign of outrage there. Nothing beyond weary headshaking or an eyeroll in "I'll be happy if they don't get to fund that".

How in the heck did you get outrage from that? Outrage would be me going on some huge spiel about the portrayal of women in wargaming or even throwing in the towel on the game entirely. Please either back off or take it to private messages - this thread is for discussing the KS, not pointlessly grinding axes.

~Tim?

Axe grinding? I don't really even know who you are (or care, truth be told). I also don't really care about this campaign (not interested, not hope they don't fund.)

You seemed so offended by these figures that you declared that you hope they don't fund - and that would "color me a happy man." which seems pretty much like a stock case of personal outrage - especially when the $500k stretch gives them to people as a freebie and they're otherwise purchasable as an add-on anyway.

So maybe you should back off and leave it alone now? Please don't take it to PM though - I'm not interested.

Well, as it looks like you're determined to take the most negative possible view of everything I've said so far, and seeing that I cannot seem to even begin to fathom why you're taking such a negative spin on things, AND as you're getting progressively more and more passive-aggressive, there's essentially no point continuing this conversation.

~Tim?

Oh, for feth's sake...

Such a negative view? Negative spin? And you accused me of hyperbole? I simply read your RAW, and they were pretty clear. Don't make a stupid comment and then get all butthurt when someone else calls or questions you on it.

Just because it's the internet doesn't mean a person can't change their position or admit if they said something silly or was wrong. Acting like your feelings are hurt and like I'm taking point to "everything I've said so far" is patently ridiculous.

I called you out on this:

It's Paolo Parente. The girls are what it says on the tin. No need to hope they don't fund or get outraged. Maybe it's not for you, or you just don't like the figures. Either is also fine, but no need to get so worked up about it that you hope they don't fund in order to be a happy man.

If you feel there's no point in continuing this conversation instead of acting like an adult and thinking about and properly reflecting on what you said, then perhaps you should stop replying to me? Unless you feel that you need the last word that desperately? Which is pretty much the only point I can see of your last post.

I don't understand the problem Paolo Parente's females look very realistic to me

Does anyone know about the Attack and Transport helicopters available to the SSU? Is the attack helicopter especially fragile and can the transport chopper carry other units or just the volunteers in the box? Is there any way to field them outside of the SSU?

This may not seem related to the KS but I like the two helicopters so much that they will influence which army I might pledge for. The problem is, while I like the SSU Infantry and the Steel Guard, I don't care for the walkers available in the KS (although I understand I can field a single captured walker) and I really hate the SSU tanks. So that's quite a price to pay all so I can field some choppers!

On the other hand I like everything included with the $150 Axis army buuut they get the jets which aren't as appealing to me :(

For some reason I think I saw there was going to be a Zomicide crossover for this. Am I right or did I imagine it?

overtyrant wrote:
For some reason I think I saw there was going to be a Zomicide crossover for this. Am I right or did I imagine it?

I don't think it was supposed to be a Zombicide crossover, more that Paolo Parente (Dust creator) was doing character concept art for Zombicide (guest boxes, like the others we seen).

Here you go.

Thanks, at least I know I'm not as crazy as I thought!

 Siygess wrote:
Does anyone know about the Attack and Transport helicopters available to the SSU? Is the attack helicopter especially fragile and can the transport chopper carry other units or just the volunteers in the box? Is there any way to field them outside of the SSU?

This may not seem related to the KS but I like the two helicopters so much that they will influence which army I might pledge for. The problem is, while I like the SSU Infantry and the Steel Guard, I don't care for the walkers available in the KS (although I understand I can field a single captured walker) and I really hate the SSU tanks. So that's quite a price to pay all so I can field some choppers!

On the other hand I like everything included with the $150 Axis army buuut they get the jets which aren't as appealing to me :(

The SSU helicopters are supposed to be pretty good. My friend has the transport but I haven't played against it yet. I believe they can transport any units not just the one included. You should check out the other SSU walkers not in this Kickstarter if you haven't seen them. They are some of my favorites in the game, but I'm not crazy about the Babylon ones. Battlefront can't sell these while FFG still has stock so you won't see them available on the Kickstarter or the Battlefront website:

http://www.miniaturemarket.com/ffgdt068.html

http://www.miniaturemarket.com/ffgdt035.html


On a side note, the total is just a few thousand away from unlocking the free walker body and 50k from unlocking the mercenaries as a free add-on. Could be less if the FLGS pledges have gone over the $100k they stated previously.

If you are playing tactics you can field what you want and the chopper can transport any soldier unit (not sure about froggies).
In warfare it is available as a support unit to I think every platoon and can again transport any squad. They are survivable as any other aircraft being Air 2 class with 6 hit points.
The walker transport chopper only works with 'aero' walkers, it comes with one. That can be a deadly combo but lots of points, good in a large game.

Attack choppers are just plain deadly to ground units.

Choppers can be just as fast as planes or they may hover. I think planes roll on inverted dice firing air to air and choppers don't? Anyway they kick ass and are ssu only.

 Siygess wrote:
Does anyone know about the Attack and Transport helicopters available to the SSU? Is the attack helicopter especially fragile and can the transport chopper carry other units or just the volunteers in the box? Is there any way to field them outside of the SSU?

This may not seem related to the KS but I like the two helicopters so much that they will influence which army I might pledge for. The problem is, while I like the SSU Infantry and the Steel Guard, I don't care for the walkers available in the KS (although I understand I can field a single captured walker) and I really hate the SSU tanks. So that's quite a price to pay all so I can field some choppers!

On the other hand I like everything included with the $150 Axis army buuut they get the jets which aren't as appealing to me :(

Gotta say, despite some pretty severe initial hiccups, this KS is now a pretty dang good deal, thanks to Dust Studio's willingness to listen to some of the constructive criticism from the fanbase. Wish I had $150 to drop on a pledge.

Oh, and is anyone else happy that it's now possible to construct a viable Allied infantry force entirely from the new armor 1 soldiers? One of the main things that has kept me from starting an Allied force was the fact that all I had to choose for light infantry were the rather goofy looking arctic-pattern Ranger units.

~Tim?

Just looked over this, since people seem much more positive about it now. Most of the so-called "value" of the bundles seems to come from the inclusion of character models "valued" at $15 and $20, which is way out of whack with pre-FFG pricing, and and the inclusion of the alternate weapons, which again, used to come in the box.

So a very GW mindset at work. Not surprising from Battlefront. I'll just pick up some more FFG stuff when I get a chance, and proxy other things in (including standard WW2 models) should I feel a need for new units.

Starfarer wrote:The SSU helicopters are supposed to be pretty good..

fattdex wrote:If you are playing tactics you can field what you want...

Thanks for the info guys, and you are right Starfarer - the non-Babylon SSU walkers are more my style. Looks like I will have to pledge for SSU to be safe and then just sell off the tank, as well as the 2 (soon to be 3) other walkers to get the ones I actually like. Too bad Dust aren't offering an exchange program with this KS although with the FFG issue I can understand why.

 Azazelx wrote:
Just looked over this, since people seem much more positive about it now. Most of the so-called "value" of the bundles seems to come from the inclusion of character models "valued" at $15 and $20, which is way out of whack with pre-FFG pricing, and and the inclusion of the alternate weapons, which again, used to come in the box.

So a very GW mindset at work. Not surprising from Battlefront. I'll just pick up some more FFG stuff when I get a chance, and proxy other things in (including standard WW2 models) should I feel a need for new units.

If that really is where a lot of the 'value; is coming from, well, that's not very good...

 Some_Call_Me_Tim? wrote:
Gotta say, despite some pretty severe initial hiccups, this KS is now a pretty dang good deal, thanks to Dust Studio's willingness to listen to some of the constructive criticism from the fanbase. Wish I had $150 to drop on a pledge.

Oh, and is anyone else happy that it's now possible to construct a viable Allied infantry force entirely from the new armor 1 soldiers? One of the main things that has kept me from starting an Allied force was the fact that all I had to choose for light infantry were the rather goofy looking arctic-pattern Ranger units.

~Tim?

The USMC stuff is pretty tempting. Although I've also toyed with the idea of a full S3 Allies army with only light walkers for support. Just a super mobile strike force basically. Still just holding out to see the Japanese before I start a second faction though. If FFG has a July 4th sale I may not be able to resist though.

 Azazelx wrote:
Just looked over this, since people seem much more positive about it now. Most of the so-called "value" of the bundles seems to come from the inclusion of character models "valued" at $15 and $20, which is way out of whack with pre-FFG pricing, and and the inclusion of the alternate weapons, which again, used to come in the box.

So a very GW mindset at work. Not surprising from Battlefront. I'll just pick up some more FFG stuff when I get a chance, and proxy other things in (including standard WW2 models) should I feel a need for new units.

You forgot the entire Achilles expansion, which is free for any pledge over $100. Additionally, it also includes dice, templates and activation counters at the $150 level for free, which are each about $12 or at least $8-10 at the discount retailers. Those 2 freebies alone account for $60-75 of value depending on if you want to factor there value pre or post online retail prices.

On top of that, the heavy walkers have only ever had 1-2 weapon combinations, so aside from the light and medium walkers, those aren't far off FFG's previously offerings. Considering they're tossed in an extra walker body and weapons set as freebies, you're getting a full walker, rather than one walker with multiple load outs. I'll take that over the box of unused extra weapon arms I have from my FFG sets. Also the character models are all $10 each, not $15 and $20. Maybe you were looking at premium characters?

It's fine if this isn't of value to you. After all, if you are just getting started, the cheaper FFG stuff is a better bargain, and I always grab that up when it is cheap. But comparing clearance prices on FFG stock to a Kickstarter as some even measure of price comparison is pretty disingenuous.

$450k hit; additional walker bodies added to the army sets. So 'free tank' essentially.

And I am loving this guy



Looking like something out of C&C Red Alert.

 Starfarer wrote:

 Some_Call_Me_Tim? wrote:
Gotta say, despite some pretty severe initial hiccups, this KS is now a pretty dang good deal, thanks to Dust Studio's willingness to listen to some of the constructive criticism from the fanbase. Wish I had $150 to drop on a pledge.

Oh, and is anyone else happy that it's now possible to construct a viable Allied infantry force entirely from the new armor 1 soldiers? One of the main things that has kept me from starting an Allied force was the fact that all I had to choose for light infantry were the rather goofy looking arctic-pattern Ranger units.

~Tim?

The USMC stuff is pretty tempting. Although I've also toyed with the idea of a full S3 Allies army with only light walkers for support. Just a super mobile strike force basically. Still just holding out to see the Japanese before I start a second faction though. If FFG has a July 4th sale I may not be able to resist though.

That's exactly what I was planning on doing until I saw the new armor 1 units! Still, a S3/Light Walkers only army does sound like a lot of fun thematically. Plus, the Light Walkers and the S3 units are really nice kits.

Also: free tank? Cool! Now I REALLY wish I had the cash to pledge...

~Tim?

Isn't that why god invented the credit card?

 Starfarer wrote:

You forgot the entire Achilles expansion, which is free for any pledge over $100. Additionally, it also includes dice, templates and activation counters at the $150 level for free, which are each about $12 or at least $8-10 at the discount retailers. Those 2 freebies alone account for $60-75 of value depending on if you want to factor there value pre or post online retail prices.

True, but then Achilles is limited to one per backer, rather than one per pledge level, so that part kind of drops in value if you go bigger. I'm always dubious about a few counters being valued at $10 or $15 as well, generally speaking.

On top of that, the heavy walkers have only ever had 1-2 weapon combinations, so aside from the light and medium walkers, those aren't far off FFG's previously offerings. Considering they're tossed in an extra walker body and weapons set as freebies, you're getting a full walker, rather than one walker with multiple load outs. I'll take that over the box of unused extra weapon arms I have from my FFG sets. Also the character models are all $10 each, not $15 and $20. Maybe you were looking at premium characters?

I'd admit, I missed the second walker chassis. That goes some way to fixing it up. You're also correct on the heroes - I was looking at the premium ones rather than the "normal" - though even there $10 is steep - although conversely depending on the quality of the paint, $15/20 could be considered cheap for the premium ones (depends very much on the paint quality).

It's fine if this isn't of value to you. After all, if you are just getting started, the cheaper FFG stuff is a better bargain, and I always grab that up when it is cheap. But comparing clearance prices on FFG stock to a Kickstarter as some even measure of price comparison is pretty disingenuous.

I was actually comparing the more regular prices of the FFG stuff - that I've been picking up bits and pieces for for the last few years - not clearance. Though a KS in theory should have some nicer price breaks.

 Alpharius wrote:

 Azazelx wrote:
Just looked over this, since people seem much more positive about it now. Most of the so-called "value" of the bundles seems to come from the inclusion of character models "valued" at $15 and $20, which is way out of whack with pre-FFG pricing, and and the inclusion of the alternate weapons, which again, used to come in the box.

So a very GW mindset at work. Not surprising from Battlefront. I'll just pick up some more FFG stuff when I get a chance, and proxy other things in (including standard WW2 models) should I feel a need for new units.

If that really is where a lot of the 'value; is coming from, well, that's not very good...

This is basically why I backed out over the weekend... I was at my FLGS over the weekend and they had some of the new non-FFG Dust models for sale, they were priced significantly higher and came with far less. Atleast when GW raises prices you usually get the same amount of stuff...

The free Achilies expansion isn't really any added value for me, I've already got it...

Just be careful with the Dust premium line stuff. I've purchased a couple of them over the years and I've never really been overly impressed by the paint job. Generally for the price difference I can pay my commision painter to paint me up something to a higher standard...

I think the value is fine. They can't make it cheaper the the MSRP or it'd screw over retailers (as they go to retail at the same time as the kickstarter). They've been pretty open about this, and most retailers seem happy about it.

I mean if you want to compare it to GW. With this kickstarter you get:

SSU:
3 Walkers (slightly larger the dreadnaughts)
1 Massive tank (They're about the same, if not larger then a landraider)
13-15 infantry
3 heavy infantry
Decals
Token
Dice
Unit cards
Campaign Book
Operation Achillies box with maps, books, and three minis

For the same price as a Warhammer battleforce.

Respectfully I ended up pulling my pledge.

They improved during the course of the KS to be sure, but even now the real value of their offering still comes out to what i'll end up paying at Miniatures Market, and there i'll be able to do it piece-meal instead of upfront with shipping costs, etc...

I think a lack of exclusive anything made it pretty easy to bail. If the heroes, for example, were KS exclusive, I would've stayed in, AND felt ok about it as it is now an inoffensive value proposition. With no exclusives... its just kind of a loan to a company I don't particularly like (Battlefront, not Dust Studios).

I do have an outstanding preorder for a bunch of this stuff though at better online prices, and I am very excited to get my 2.0 hardcover, etc, this month.

I get that. I'm trying to start an SSU army so it was a pretty easy call for me.

And you're right, it's basically a pre-order so they can get new stuff in stores. I think they know this, which is why there aren't any kickstarter exclusives. The company is probably just as happy if you pre-order from retail.

Never played Dust, saw this Kickstarter and thats $600 gone

Not sure if will ever get to play it much but the premium armies look great - also will work as Astra Millitarium as well. the SSU walkers as Orks - so win win

I guess I should look into if the game is any good

I jumped in when the free and discounted add-ons started piling up. It seems like a good deal, as for me even the normal non-discounted units seem cheap. Of course, the last wargame I seriously invested in was WHF, so...

I think saying battlefront is being GW-esque is a bit exaggerated, just look at 40k prices and look at Dust prices (obviously GW prices go by the most common price(s)).

Small Infantry
Dust = 5x for $22; $4.4/model
40k = 10 for $29; $2.9/model

Elite Infantry
Dust = 3x for $22; $7.3/model
40k = 5x for $33-45; $7.8/model (average)

Big Infantry
Dust = 3x for $33; $11/model
40k = 5x for $50-60 or 3x for $47-78; $16/model (average)

Medium Vehicle
Dust = $33
GW = $37-65 ($51 average)

Heavy Vehicle
Dust = $45
GW = $60-74 ($67 average)

This is for 40k, the cheaper of GWs two games to play, and does not include rulebooks/dataslates, finecast, or relative size of armies used in regular play, all of which up the cost of 40k considerably.

To their credit, GW models often come with extra parts and have a degree of available customization that Dust does not, but I see this as balanced out by the pre-assembled, pre-primed nature of Dust models.

Oh, does anyone have a link to the fan made Dust Warfare cards? Most of the links I've found are dead, or only have the base rulebook units.

I'll have to wait for their pledge manager to drop, but I can't make up my mind between more Axis or starting an SSU army.

Love the steel guard designs, but how much more are they going to cost points- wise compared to the other armies? Is one Steel Guard unit comparable to 2 or 3 light infantry?

They give me a heavy SF3D vibe, which I've always liked.

...and that new Tesla tank...

Highlord we can answer that question easily enough!

http://www.dust-tactics.com/Docs/Dust/wave8cards.pdf

So for the basic trooper Steel Guard 15 points is the number of the day but lordy what you get for 5 points an SG. Damn. Those shotguns get 8/1 on infantry 2!

Well there's already Steel Guard units out, so they'll probably be similar in points.

Around 30-35 for Warfare... not sure on Tactics.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
I jumped in when the free and discounted add-ons started piling up. It seems like a good deal, as for me even the normal non-discounted units seem cheap. Of course, the last wargame I seriously invested in was WHF, so...

I think saying battlefront is being GW-esque is a bit exaggerated, just look at 40k prices and look at Dust prices (obviously GW prices go by the most common price(s)).

Small Infantry
Dust = 5x for $22; $4.4/model
40k = 10 for $29; $2.9/model

Elite Infantry
Dust = 3x for $22; $7.3/model
40k = 5x for $33-45; $7.8/model (average)

Big Infantry
Dust = 3x for $33; $11/model
40k = 5x for $50-60 or 3x for $47-78; $16/model (average)

Medium Vehicle
Dust = $33
GW = $37-65 ($51 average)

Heavy Vehicle
Dust = $45
GW = $60-74 ($67 average)

This is for 40k, the cheaper of GWs two games to play, and does not include rulebooks/dataslates, finecast, or relative size of armies used in regular play, all of which up the cost of 40k considerably.

To their credit, GW models often come with extra parts and have a degree of available customization that Dust does not, but I see this as balanced out by the pre-assembled, pre-primed nature of Dust models.

Lets also not forget that when you buy a unit of Dust figures you're buying the ENTIRE UNIT, so in some cases you'll need to double the 40k amount. It might be different for Warfare, but I haven't tried that so I don't know.

Not many 40k squads for $29. Take a look at a squad of marines: $40, Eldar $35.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

I think saying battlefront is being GW-esque is a bit exaggerated, just look at 40k prices and look at Dust prices (obviously GW prices go by the most common price(s)).

You're kind of missing the point by just directly comparing the prices (though I expected Dust to come out significantly better than they did in your comparison). It's the way that the company behaves in many ways (including FoW), and not helped by the way they are changing their unit boxes, etc. Regional pricing where Australia cops it out of whack with exchange rates once again, etc. In some ways they're even worse than GW.

You also have to realize the models are fully assembled and primed (some mold lines aside) which is great for many gamers.

Also, Battlefront doesn't magical internet murder their retailers, meaning discounted boxes are plentiful on the internet, making it by and far cheaper than anything GW could purport to offer.

I have a full 100 point SSU army and I only spent 120 bucks. Top that, any gaming system besides Malifaux ever.

katfude wrote:
You also have to realize the models are fully assembled and primed (some mold lines aside) which is great for many gamers.

Also, Battlefront doesn't magical internet murder their retailers, meaning discounted boxes are plentiful on the internet, making it by and far cheaper than anything GW could purport to offer.

I have a full 100 point SSU army and I only spent 120 bucks. Top that, any gaming system besides Malifaux ever.

X-Wing?
But yeah, Dust is quite cheap to get in to, and it really helps that you literally can pull the minis from the box and put them on the table ready to play. Assembled, based, primed, stat cards, complete squad, done. Not like eg GW where you need to buy 3 boxes of the same 10-man infantry squad to have something which can be fielded.

Anyone who has played with them: Soldier 1, Do they actually work? Looking at Grim Reapers putting 30 dice into a squad of Soldier/1, are the Soldier/1 's enough cheaper than the Soldier/2's to make it worth them taking twice the dice from nearly every attack?

 Moopy wrote:

Lets also not forget that when you buy a unit of Dust figures you're buying the ENTIRE UNIT, so in some cases you'll need to double the 40k amount. It might be different for Warfare, but I haven't tried that so I don't know.

Not many 40k squads for $29. Take a look at a squad of marines: $40, Eldar $35.

Your example is flawed as that box of $40 tactical marines can also make two squads technically as well putting it in at $25 each, which is CHEAPER than $29. These types of comparisons are always bad so it is best to just stick with as close to apples to apples as possible... i.e. 28mm "human" sized figure to 28mm "human" sized figure. One you go on to comparing units for different games with vastly different model counts/playstyles/genres or god forbid go full derp and try to compare armies to armies in those different games then the actual relatedness of the comparison drops significantly.

Trasvi wrote:

X-Wing?

Trasvi wrote:

Anyone who has played with them: Soldier 1, Do they actually work? Looking at Grim Reapers putting 30 dice into a squad of Soldier/1, are the Soldier/1 's enough cheaper than the Soldier/2's to make it worth them taking twice the dice from nearly every attack?

Honestly, I had a huge concern with Inf1 myself, but most weapons out there with Tactics V2 rules, there's not much difference in dice volume between Inf2 and Inf1. V3 Tactics Grim Reapers throw 12 dice per model at Inf1 and 11 at Inf2. Both are going to get wiped if not in cover. Bear in mind this is V2 Tactics/Battlefield, not sure about the new warfare cards.

katfude wrote:
You also have to realize the models are fully assembled and primed (some mold lines aside) which is great for many gamers.

It's certainly a benefit to board gamers, but can be a detriment to hobbyist gamers, as just as many people prefer to assemble their own figures. To be fair, I think we can call that a wash.

Also, Battlefront doesn't magical internet murder their retailers, meaning discounted boxes are plentiful on the internet, making it by and far cheaper than anything GW could purport to offer.

BF have a 10% maximum discount standing policy and do indeed cut off retailers who dare to contravene this policy. Their interactions with the now-gone Maelstrom Games are well documented on the internet.

I have a full 100 point SSU army and I only spent 120 bucks. Top that, any gaming system besides Malifaux ever.

I know the "it's all you need" argument is popular on the internet, but it's not an argument I really agree with using, regardless of who the "sides" are. It used to be the main justification in the arguments about how it's ok that PP's models cost more than GW's ones "because you don't need as many".

 Azazelx wrote:

It's certainly a benefit to board gamers, but can be a detriment to hobbyist gamers, as just as many people prefer to assemble their own figures. To be fair, I think we can call that a wash.

I do actually have a lot of fun assembling the models so I miss that, but one thing to factor into the cost of the model is that Dust Studios is spending labor AND resources (primer paint) to get them ready to play out of the box. That alone makes it more impressive to me that their boxes aren't more expensive.

BF have a 10% maximum discount standing policy and do indeed cut off retailers who dare to contravene this policy. Their interactions with the now-gone Maelstrom Games are well documented on the internet.

Did not know this. Interesting. I did notice a few sites brought their prices up a little bit recently, but they are currently still exceeding the 10% point. Hopefully that doesn't change.

I know the "it's all you need" argument is popular on the internet, but it's not an argument I really agree with using, regardless of who the "sides" are. It used to be the main justification in the arguments about how it's ok that PP's models cost more than GW's ones "because you don't need as many".

Agreed, it's a soft argument for sure, but when you add the "all you need" with "actual unit size in each box" with "they're arguably cheaper/the same price as GW's stuff", it gains a bit more weight.

 Azazelx wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

I think saying battlefront is being GW-esque is a bit exaggerated, just look at 40k prices and look at Dust prices (obviously GW prices go by the most common price(s)).

Regional pricing where Australia cops it out of whack with exchange rates once again, etc. In some ways they're even worse than GW.

I was just reading in one BF release or another that all regions are having their pricing restructured to be equal to USD globally.

katfude wrote:

 Azazelx wrote:

It's certainly a benefit to board gamers, but can be a detriment to hobbyist gamers, as just as many people prefer to assemble their own figures. To be fair, I think we can call that a wash.

I do actually have a lot of fun assembling the models so I miss that, but one thing to factor into the cost of the model is that Dust Studios is spending labor AND resources (primer paint) to get them ready to play out of the box. That alone makes it more impressive to me that their boxes aren't more expensive.

See, to be honest I find price comparisons to GW to be a bit of a bad argument as well. Because they're the market leader in many ways, almost everyone else just emulates their (ever-increasing) prices, more or less. Then you go and look at historicals. Same size models for the most part, but costing a fraction per figure. And this isn't directed at DUST specifically, but my attitude there is basically "So your figures are slightly cheaper than GW? You think being fractionally cheaper than GW is something that's a big deal?" followed by /facepalm.

Check out Warlord, Perrys, WGF, Victrix or any of the other many companies putting out high quality hard PVC plastics at a fraction of GW's prices. The reason GW, PP, Dust, etc (can and do) charge so much more is ironically because of their proprietary figures as opposed to historical concepts. The priming I do like (except you still have to clean the figures) but the assembly on the infantry is no more impressive than any other pre-assembled boardgame figures, really. OK, the vehicles do a nice job, but I really wish the legs weren't glued in place so my walkers are permanently hunched down unless I break them in order to pose them...

BF have a 10% maximum discount standing policy and do indeed cut off retailers who dare to contravene this policy. Their interactions with the now-gone Maelstrom Games are well documented on the internet.

Did not know this. Interesting. I did notice a few sites brought their prices up a little bit recently, but they are currently still exceeding the 10% point. Hopefully that doesn't change.

It seems that Miniature Market obtain their figures not directly, but through other means. I guess like Discount Games Store - an internet retailer that GW would obviously love to shut down but do not buy direct from GW, so can't be touched directly.

I know the "it's all you need" argument is popular on the internet, but it's not an argument I really agree with using, regardless of who the "sides" are. It used to be the main justification in the arguments about how it's ok that PP's models cost more than GW's ones "because you don't need as many".

Agreed, it's a soft argument for sure, but when you add the "all you need" with "actual unit size in each box" with "they're arguably cheaper/the same price as GW's stuff", it gains a bit more weight.

 warboss wrote:

 Moopy wrote:

Lets also not forget that when you buy a unit of Dust figures you're buying the ENTIRE UNIT, so in some cases you'll need to double the 40k amount. It might be different for Warfare, but I haven't tried that so I don't know.

Not many 40k squads for $29. Take a look at a squad of marines: $40, Eldar $35.

Your example is flawed as that box of $40 tactical marines can also make two squads technically as well putting it in at $25 each, which is CHEAPER than $29. These types of comparisons are always bad so it is best to just stick with as close to apples to apples as possible... i.e. 28mm "human" sized figure to 28mm "human" sized figure. One you go on to comparing units for different games with vastly different model counts/playstyles/genres or god forbid go full derp and try to compare armies to armies in those different games then the actual relatedness of the comparison drops significantly.

I disagree and we'll leave it at that.

 Azazelx wrote:

katfude wrote:

 Azazelx wrote:

It's certainly a benefit to board gamers, but can be a detriment to hobbyist gamers, as just as many people prefer to assemble their own figures. To be fair, I think we can call that a wash.

I do actually have a lot of fun assembling the models so I miss that, but one thing to factor into the cost of the model is that Dust Studios is spending labor AND resources (primer paint) to get them ready to play out of the box. That alone makes it more impressive to me that their boxes aren't more expensive.

See, to be honest I find price comparisons to GW to be a bit of a bad argument as well. Because they're the market leader in many ways, almost everyone else just emulates their (ever-increasing) prices, more or less. Then you go and look at historicals. Same size models for the most part, but costing a fraction per figure. And this isn't directed at DUST specifically, but my attitude there is basically "So your figures are slightly cheaper than GW? You think being fractionally cheaper than GW is something that's a big deal?" followed by /facepalm.

I bought an entire Dust Warfare/Tactics army and rules from my local store for $120 Canadian that I've played with a bunch

I'm trying to get into 40k. I've spent around the same amount...

I have the rule book, and nothing else.

Yes, the MSRP on Dust's infantry isn't great, but I can't think of any store that doesn't sell them for significantly cheaper (even when not on sale).

Frankly it's cheaper to get into so for me it's a great sort of army scale game.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As an aside, I'm really surprised about the complaints in the last few pages of this thread.

"The mercenary unit's shirts are low cut! You monsters! I've never seen something so terrible in a miniatures game!!!! You're holding all of women kind back!"

"It's a good deal, but this company is just as bad as GW (IE Worse than Hitler)!!!"

Personally I feel BF is better at customer service/treating customers like humans than GW, but that matter becomes so opinion-based so quickly that it can't be boiled down to simple stats. At the end of the day they can only be compared in broad terms of relative practices, for me that puts BF on a (much) higher level than GW, but even then my priorities are different than the next guy. I boiled down the pricing to roughly price per comparable model because that's one of the few things that, imo, even can have a number assigned to it. In reality Dust is much cheaper to play than 40k, but the factors that make it so are too variable to put down in such a simple format; I simply sought to back up my claim with the least-soft numbers I could come up with. And even then, as others have mentioned, Dust tends to have greater discounts than 40k (I know my flgs sells Dust for less than the retail value listed by BF).

As for prices compared to historical games, for me I don't see it as a factor because I simply don't want to own those models. To me they are simple and boring compared to the fantasy/sci fi models produced by other companies, the price is irrelevant because I wouldn't pay anything for the vast majority of them.

As for complaints, though some may have been worded a bit extremely I think the general attitude is more disappointment (particularly on the topic of overly sexualized female models) than actual anger. The lack of body language/tone in strictly text-based messages easily leads to the impression of an extreme emotion when none was intended.

The Kickstarter has reached $400k(plus another $100k+ from LGS direct backers) so the Sisters of Demolition are now a free upgrade. Dust Studios confirmed in the KS comments and said they're updating it now. 50 more backers unlocks the Abandoned Well Terrain piece, and the last stretch goal.

Less than 2 days to go.

 Twelvecarpileup wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As an aside, I'm really surprised about the complaints in the last few pages of this thread.

"The mercenary unit's shirts are low cut! You monsters! I've never seen something so terrible in a miniatures game!!!! You're holding all of women kind back!"

"It's a good deal, but this company is just as bad as GW (IE Worse than Hitler)!!!"

Dakka's kinda a negative place. I've gotten used to it by now - after all, why else can you expect when you get a lotta geeks in one place? We're passionate about what we love, so when we feel that something's not right we're ready to voice our complaints. Essentially, we love to hate what we love.

~Tim?

P.S. Though you're being a bit hyperbolic about the reaction to the Mercs - the responses definitely weren't nearly as Jezebelian as you're making 'em out to be. Most people were just saying that they weren't to their tastes, which is cool. For that matter, liking the Mercs is cool too. In the end, they're just toys of a higher caliber. No point in getting bothered by that.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Personally I feel BF is better at customer service/treating customers like humans than GW, but that matter becomes so opinion-based so quickly that it can't be boiled down to simple stats

The very few times I had problems with a FOW purchase, I always received great customer service. Several times they sent extra parts in addition to the replacement ones as a surprise bonus.

The free digsite terrain piece is in so all stretches busted, new stretch at 425k to add on purchase discounted special edition models.

Damn. So they freaking tore past the KS goals. 450k with 7 hours to go. Not quite 1000% fill, but nice work.

Really looking forward to this - if the premium models look like the images I'll be a very happy man