Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Highlord we can answer that question easily enough!

http://www.dust-tactics.com/Docs/Dust/wave8cards.pdf

So for the basic trooper Steel Guard 15 points is the number of the day but lordy what you get for 5 points an SG. Damn. Those shotguns get 8/1 on infantry 2!

Well there's already Steel Guard units out, so they'll probably be similar in points.

Around 30-35 for Warfare... not sure on Tactics.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
I jumped in when the free and discounted add-ons started piling up. It seems like a good deal, as for me even the normal non-discounted units seem cheap. Of course, the last wargame I seriously invested in was WHF, so...

I think saying battlefront is being GW-esque is a bit exaggerated, just look at 40k prices and look at Dust prices (obviously GW prices go by the most common price(s)).

Small Infantry
Dust = 5x for $22; $4.4/model
40k = 10 for $29; $2.9/model

Elite Infantry
Dust = 3x for $22; $7.3/model
40k = 5x for $33-45; $7.8/model (average)

Big Infantry
Dust = 3x for $33; $11/model
40k = 5x for $50-60 or 3x for $47-78; $16/model (average)

Medium Vehicle
Dust = $33
GW = $37-65 ($51 average)

Heavy Vehicle
Dust = $45
GW = $60-74 ($67 average)

This is for 40k, the cheaper of GWs two games to play, and does not include rulebooks/dataslates, finecast, or relative size of armies used in regular play, all of which up the cost of 40k considerably.

To their credit, GW models often come with extra parts and have a degree of available customization that Dust does not, but I see this as balanced out by the pre-assembled, pre-primed nature of Dust models.

Lets also not forget that when you buy a unit of Dust figures you're buying the ENTIRE UNIT, so in some cases you'll need to double the 40k amount. It might be different for Warfare, but I haven't tried that so I don't know.

Not many 40k squads for $29. Take a look at a squad of marines: $40, Eldar $35.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

I think saying battlefront is being GW-esque is a bit exaggerated, just look at 40k prices and look at Dust prices (obviously GW prices go by the most common price(s)).

You're kind of missing the point by just directly comparing the prices (though I expected Dust to come out significantly better than they did in your comparison). It's the way that the company behaves in many ways (including FoW), and not helped by the way they are changing their unit boxes, etc. Regional pricing where Australia cops it out of whack with exchange rates once again, etc. In some ways they're even worse than GW.

You also have to realize the models are fully assembled and primed (some mold lines aside) which is great for many gamers.

Also, Battlefront doesn't magical internet murder their retailers, meaning discounted boxes are plentiful on the internet, making it by and far cheaper than anything GW could purport to offer.

I have a full 100 point SSU army and I only spent 120 bucks. Top that, any gaming system besides Malifaux ever.

katfude wrote:
You also have to realize the models are fully assembled and primed (some mold lines aside) which is great for many gamers.

Also, Battlefront doesn't magical internet murder their retailers, meaning discounted boxes are plentiful on the internet, making it by and far cheaper than anything GW could purport to offer.

I have a full 100 point SSU army and I only spent 120 bucks. Top that, any gaming system besides Malifaux ever.

X-Wing?
But yeah, Dust is quite cheap to get in to, and it really helps that you literally can pull the minis from the box and put them on the table ready to play. Assembled, based, primed, stat cards, complete squad, done. Not like eg GW where you need to buy 3 boxes of the same 10-man infantry squad to have something which can be fielded.

Anyone who has played with them: Soldier 1, Do they actually work? Looking at Grim Reapers putting 30 dice into a squad of Soldier/1, are the Soldier/1 's enough cheaper than the Soldier/2's to make it worth them taking twice the dice from nearly every attack?

 Moopy wrote:

Lets also not forget that when you buy a unit of Dust figures you're buying the ENTIRE UNIT, so in some cases you'll need to double the 40k amount. It might be different for Warfare, but I haven't tried that so I don't know.

Not many 40k squads for $29. Take a look at a squad of marines: $40, Eldar $35.

Your example is flawed as that box of $40 tactical marines can also make two squads technically as well putting it in at $25 each, which is CHEAPER than $29. These types of comparisons are always bad so it is best to just stick with as close to apples to apples as possible... i.e. 28mm "human" sized figure to 28mm "human" sized figure. One you go on to comparing units for different games with vastly different model counts/playstyles/genres or god forbid go full derp and try to compare armies to armies in those different games then the actual relatedness of the comparison drops significantly.

Trasvi wrote:

X-Wing?

Trasvi wrote:

Anyone who has played with them: Soldier 1, Do they actually work? Looking at Grim Reapers putting 30 dice into a squad of Soldier/1, are the Soldier/1 's enough cheaper than the Soldier/2's to make it worth them taking twice the dice from nearly every attack?

Honestly, I had a huge concern with Inf1 myself, but most weapons out there with Tactics V2 rules, there's not much difference in dice volume between Inf2 and Inf1. V3 Tactics Grim Reapers throw 12 dice per model at Inf1 and 11 at Inf2. Both are going to get wiped if not in cover. Bear in mind this is V2 Tactics/Battlefield, not sure about the new warfare cards.

katfude wrote:
You also have to realize the models are fully assembled and primed (some mold lines aside) which is great for many gamers.

It's certainly a benefit to board gamers, but can be a detriment to hobbyist gamers, as just as many people prefer to assemble their own figures. To be fair, I think we can call that a wash.

Also, Battlefront doesn't magical internet murder their retailers, meaning discounted boxes are plentiful on the internet, making it by and far cheaper than anything GW could purport to offer.

BF have a 10% maximum discount standing policy and do indeed cut off retailers who dare to contravene this policy. Their interactions with the now-gone Maelstrom Games are well documented on the internet.

I have a full 100 point SSU army and I only spent 120 bucks. Top that, any gaming system besides Malifaux ever.

I know the "it's all you need" argument is popular on the internet, but it's not an argument I really agree with using, regardless of who the "sides" are. It used to be the main justification in the arguments about how it's ok that PP's models cost more than GW's ones "because you don't need as many".

 Azazelx wrote:

It's certainly a benefit to board gamers, but can be a detriment to hobbyist gamers, as just as many people prefer to assemble their own figures. To be fair, I think we can call that a wash.

I do actually have a lot of fun assembling the models so I miss that, but one thing to factor into the cost of the model is that Dust Studios is spending labor AND resources (primer paint) to get them ready to play out of the box. That alone makes it more impressive to me that their boxes aren't more expensive.

BF have a 10% maximum discount standing policy and do indeed cut off retailers who dare to contravene this policy. Their interactions with the now-gone Maelstrom Games are well documented on the internet.

Did not know this. Interesting. I did notice a few sites brought their prices up a little bit recently, but they are currently still exceeding the 10% point. Hopefully that doesn't change.

I know the "it's all you need" argument is popular on the internet, but it's not an argument I really agree with using, regardless of who the "sides" are. It used to be the main justification in the arguments about how it's ok that PP's models cost more than GW's ones "because you don't need as many".

Agreed, it's a soft argument for sure, but when you add the "all you need" with "actual unit size in each box" with "they're arguably cheaper/the same price as GW's stuff", it gains a bit more weight.

 Azazelx wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

I think saying battlefront is being GW-esque is a bit exaggerated, just look at 40k prices and look at Dust prices (obviously GW prices go by the most common price(s)).

Regional pricing where Australia cops it out of whack with exchange rates once again, etc. In some ways they're even worse than GW.

I was just reading in one BF release or another that all regions are having their pricing restructured to be equal to USD globally.

katfude wrote:

 Azazelx wrote:

It's certainly a benefit to board gamers, but can be a detriment to hobbyist gamers, as just as many people prefer to assemble their own figures. To be fair, I think we can call that a wash.

I do actually have a lot of fun assembling the models so I miss that, but one thing to factor into the cost of the model is that Dust Studios is spending labor AND resources (primer paint) to get them ready to play out of the box. That alone makes it more impressive to me that their boxes aren't more expensive.

See, to be honest I find price comparisons to GW to be a bit of a bad argument as well. Because they're the market leader in many ways, almost everyone else just emulates their (ever-increasing) prices, more or less. Then you go and look at historicals. Same size models for the most part, but costing a fraction per figure. And this isn't directed at DUST specifically, but my attitude there is basically "So your figures are slightly cheaper than GW? You think being fractionally cheaper than GW is something that's a big deal?" followed by /facepalm.

Check out Warlord, Perrys, WGF, Victrix or any of the other many companies putting out high quality hard PVC plastics at a fraction of GW's prices. The reason GW, PP, Dust, etc (can and do) charge so much more is ironically because of their proprietary figures as opposed to historical concepts. The priming I do like (except you still have to clean the figures) but the assembly on the infantry is no more impressive than any other pre-assembled boardgame figures, really. OK, the vehicles do a nice job, but I really wish the legs weren't glued in place so my walkers are permanently hunched down unless I break them in order to pose them...

BF have a 10% maximum discount standing policy and do indeed cut off retailers who dare to contravene this policy. Their interactions with the now-gone Maelstrom Games are well documented on the internet.

Did not know this. Interesting. I did notice a few sites brought their prices up a little bit recently, but they are currently still exceeding the 10% point. Hopefully that doesn't change.

It seems that Miniature Market obtain their figures not directly, but through other means. I guess like Discount Games Store - an internet retailer that GW would obviously love to shut down but do not buy direct from GW, so can't be touched directly.

I know the "it's all you need" argument is popular on the internet, but it's not an argument I really agree with using, regardless of who the "sides" are. It used to be the main justification in the arguments about how it's ok that PP's models cost more than GW's ones "because you don't need as many".

Agreed, it's a soft argument for sure, but when you add the "all you need" with "actual unit size in each box" with "they're arguably cheaper/the same price as GW's stuff", it gains a bit more weight.

 warboss wrote:

 Moopy wrote:

Lets also not forget that when you buy a unit of Dust figures you're buying the ENTIRE UNIT, so in some cases you'll need to double the 40k amount. It might be different for Warfare, but I haven't tried that so I don't know.

Not many 40k squads for $29. Take a look at a squad of marines: $40, Eldar $35.

Your example is flawed as that box of $40 tactical marines can also make two squads technically as well putting it in at $25 each, which is CHEAPER than $29. These types of comparisons are always bad so it is best to just stick with as close to apples to apples as possible... i.e. 28mm "human" sized figure to 28mm "human" sized figure. One you go on to comparing units for different games with vastly different model counts/playstyles/genres or god forbid go full derp and try to compare armies to armies in those different games then the actual relatedness of the comparison drops significantly.

I disagree and we'll leave it at that.

 Azazelx wrote:

katfude wrote:

 Azazelx wrote:

It's certainly a benefit to board gamers, but can be a detriment to hobbyist gamers, as just as many people prefer to assemble their own figures. To be fair, I think we can call that a wash.

I do actually have a lot of fun assembling the models so I miss that, but one thing to factor into the cost of the model is that Dust Studios is spending labor AND resources (primer paint) to get them ready to play out of the box. That alone makes it more impressive to me that their boxes aren't more expensive.

See, to be honest I find price comparisons to GW to be a bit of a bad argument as well. Because they're the market leader in many ways, almost everyone else just emulates their (ever-increasing) prices, more or less. Then you go and look at historicals. Same size models for the most part, but costing a fraction per figure. And this isn't directed at DUST specifically, but my attitude there is basically "So your figures are slightly cheaper than GW? You think being fractionally cheaper than GW is something that's a big deal?" followed by /facepalm.

I bought an entire Dust Warfare/Tactics army and rules from my local store for $120 Canadian that I've played with a bunch

I'm trying to get into 40k. I've spent around the same amount...

I have the rule book, and nothing else.

Yes, the MSRP on Dust's infantry isn't great, but I can't think of any store that doesn't sell them for significantly cheaper (even when not on sale).

Frankly it's cheaper to get into so for me it's a great sort of army scale game.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As an aside, I'm really surprised about the complaints in the last few pages of this thread.

"The mercenary unit's shirts are low cut! You monsters! I've never seen something so terrible in a miniatures game!!!! You're holding all of women kind back!"

"It's a good deal, but this company is just as bad as GW (IE Worse than Hitler)!!!"

Personally I feel BF is better at customer service/treating customers like humans than GW, but that matter becomes so opinion-based so quickly that it can't be boiled down to simple stats. At the end of the day they can only be compared in broad terms of relative practices, for me that puts BF on a (much) higher level than GW, but even then my priorities are different than the next guy. I boiled down the pricing to roughly price per comparable model because that's one of the few things that, imo, even can have a number assigned to it. In reality Dust is much cheaper to play than 40k, but the factors that make it so are too variable to put down in such a simple format; I simply sought to back up my claim with the least-soft numbers I could come up with. And even then, as others have mentioned, Dust tends to have greater discounts than 40k (I know my flgs sells Dust for less than the retail value listed by BF).

As for prices compared to historical games, for me I don't see it as a factor because I simply don't want to own those models. To me they are simple and boring compared to the fantasy/sci fi models produced by other companies, the price is irrelevant because I wouldn't pay anything for the vast majority of them.

As for complaints, though some may have been worded a bit extremely I think the general attitude is more disappointment (particularly on the topic of overly sexualized female models) than actual anger. The lack of body language/tone in strictly text-based messages easily leads to the impression of an extreme emotion when none was intended.

The Kickstarter has reached $400k(plus another $100k+ from LGS direct backers) so the Sisters of Demolition are now a free upgrade. Dust Studios confirmed in the KS comments and said they're updating it now. 50 more backers unlocks the Abandoned Well Terrain piece, and the last stretch goal.

Less than 2 days to go.

 Twelvecarpileup wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As an aside, I'm really surprised about the complaints in the last few pages of this thread.

"The mercenary unit's shirts are low cut! You monsters! I've never seen something so terrible in a miniatures game!!!! You're holding all of women kind back!"

"It's a good deal, but this company is just as bad as GW (IE Worse than Hitler)!!!"

Dakka's kinda a negative place. I've gotten used to it by now - after all, why else can you expect when you get a lotta geeks in one place? We're passionate about what we love, so when we feel that something's not right we're ready to voice our complaints. Essentially, we love to hate what we love.

~Tim?

P.S. Though you're being a bit hyperbolic about the reaction to the Mercs - the responses definitely weren't nearly as Jezebelian as you're making 'em out to be. Most people were just saying that they weren't to their tastes, which is cool. For that matter, liking the Mercs is cool too. In the end, they're just toys of a higher caliber. No point in getting bothered by that.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Personally I feel BF is better at customer service/treating customers like humans than GW, but that matter becomes so opinion-based so quickly that it can't be boiled down to simple stats

The very few times I had problems with a FOW purchase, I always received great customer service. Several times they sent extra parts in addition to the replacement ones as a surprise bonus.

The free digsite terrain piece is in so all stretches busted, new stretch at 425k to add on purchase discounted special edition models.

Damn. So they freaking tore past the KS goals. 450k with 7 hours to go. Not quite 1000% fill, but nice work.

Really looking forward to this - if the premium models look like the images I'll be a very happy man