Hello
It's a really interesting topic. I dont like the shape of the sentinel so maybe I will put some 40K gun on a historical tank as replacement (Somua S-35 <3 ).
Like this conversion from an other french guy who reshape a Leman Russ to look like to a B1Bis
Tamiya's 1/48th Opel Blitz could work. It comes out at about half the width of a Chimera, but well, civilian vehicles tend to be smaller than armoured military ones anyway. 1/35th is excessively large, rather if you want chunkier stuff than 1/43rd diecasts could work as well.
Ah, but yeah, a 1/56th scale human (not to be mistaken with say Warlord's models, which're definitely not that size) would stand at around shoulder height to an Imperial Guard model. 1/48th humans are around the same height, but much thinner. ...Its almost like GW's aesthetic comes from a time when production quality wasn't as good, so they had to make everything extra big to accommodate.
Warlord's do not go well with other ranges. I've had to resort to using Tamiya's 1:48 armour and vehicles alongside their infantry to make it look decent enough.
Wyrmalla wrote: Tamiya's 1/48th Opel Blitz could work. It comes out at about half the width of a Chimera, but well, civilian vehicles tend to be smaller than armoured military ones anyway. 1/35th is excessively large, rather if you want chunkier stuff than 1/43rd diecasts could work as well.
Ah, but yeah, a 1/56th scale human (not to be mistaken with say Warlord's models, which're definitely not that size) would stand at around shoulder height to an Imperial Guard model. 1/48th humans are around the same height, but much thinner. ...Its almost like GW's aesthetic comes from a time when production quality wasn't as good, so they had to make everything extra big to accommodate.
Sure they are (well sort of). 1/56 is roughly 32mm tall for a 6' man (5.442 mm per foot x 6 feet = 32.652) with the majority of Bolt Action models being 28mm to the eye. Of course, they have "heroic" proportions, unlike, say, Perry historicals, who have a far more realistic proportion. But things like '28mm" or "36mm" aren't really scales... That's why 1/56 vehicles work perfectly for, say, Bolt Action minis height, but not width. Heroic minis eat really really well I suppose. Height's quite a bit more important for a true LOS tabletop game, though...
But back on topic, one of the problems is that WW2 stuff is so easily recognized that it looks way out of place in eras that they wouldn't actually be used, like 40k. A Sherman, Tiger, T-34, Opel Blitz, CCKW, etc, are all iconic WW2 vehicles so breaks immersion if you use them in 40k. I guess that's why GW based all their tanks on bizarre interwar designs. Who's paying attention to a British Medium Mark III ?
Nah, the GW aesthetic is based entirely on the Early Citadel / Wargames Foundry aesthetic, a very particular style chosen by Bryan Ansell, Aly (Alistair) Morrison, Dave Andrews, and (teenage) Michael and Alan Perry, and continued through Kev Adams, shane Hoyle, Colin Dixon, et al, to be characterful and to distinguish their sculpts from the other more "realistic" 25mm models and Airfix plastics at the time. Citadel had no problem producing quality plastics with thin parts - is there anything in the modern 40k range that is as thin as the original Rhino's infantry-grip bar?
judgedoug wrote: Is the Opel Blitz / Opel Maultier a "deep cut" when Germany produced several hundred thousand of them?
But yes, Rubicon and Warlord are 1/56 scale. You need like 1/35 scale for 40k's absurd anatomical proportions
I feel like there's been an explosion of armored cars, trucks and other support vehicles in the last few years. When I was looking for civilian vehicles for 40k it seemed that historical models were limited to tanks and planes.
Anyway another nice one this time from Takom and 1/35.
I picked one up yesterday at the local hobby store. It's honestly a bit on the small side for most things. It has a nice opening in the top though and a cupola. I believe I will likely mount an Autocannon or similar and run it as a Salamander. I also have some Airfix snatch land rovers and other more realistic scale historical kits that will serve as Taurox and other sorts of QRF style vehicles.
JoeRugby wrote: Any chance of a pic next to some dudesmen when you put it together?
Won't be a problem but for a early approximation, I think it would hang off the edges of a 60mm base by a smidge on each side. I could be off but I won't know until I do get it together. Building Dark Imperium contents first then I'll probably get some work in on my Private Security themed AM army.
I have both the 1/35 and 1/48 LAV.
The 1/35 is the exact same size of a Rhino (so I'm using mine as Immolators for Sisters of Battle) and the 1/48 is the exact same size as a FW Tauros Assault Vehicle.
I believe I've posted size comparison of the 1/35 and a rhino in this very thread.
MadCowCrazy wrote: I have both the 1/35 and 1/48 LAV.
The 1/35 is the exact same size of a Rhino (so I'm using mine as Immolators for Sisters of Battle) and the 1/48 is the exact same size as a FW Tauros Assault Vehicle.
I believe I've posted size comparison of the 1/35 and a rhino in this very thread.
A pic of the LAV yes, but a side by side I could not find.
Pretty sure the KV-5 would be way too big for a Russ in 1:35, even if you shortened it. I've got one I'm planning to turn into an ork kill tank. It's pretty damn big. Not quite baneblade, but similar to a land raider in overall volume, I think.
The T-12 on the other hand seems like it has great potential.
Kings Hobbies and Games have a range of modern vehicles in 1/50th. Whilst most of them are quite distincitvely contemporary, there's some weird looking stuff which has been started seeing use.
Case in point, the Russian FSB Zil Punisher (which yes, if you've played ARMA III, this thing is real... Crazy, crazy world).
I'd hazard that the product list is going through a revamp, so much of the older stuff is either being removed or going through a quality improvement. Expect to see newer additions coming out as well. Of course for 40K many of the vehicles may be too small, but mine resistant vehicles like the Punisher - which are deliberately enlarged for protection - may not look so out of place.
Die Waffenkammer have a Ratte coming out in 1/56th eventually. The modeller's been making it on and off for a while now. ...That's like the size of a Landraider I suppose.
For a size comparison I'd say one of those Marders would come out a smidge longer than s a Space Marine's bike. The 38 (t) was a comparatively small tank compared, even when not comparing it to things like the Sherman or Panzer IV. Whilst Warlord Games' plastic soldiers are Heroic Scale, they aren't nearly as large as Games Workshop's figures. So unless you're using comparatively sized soldiers - i.e. Forgeworld's, they'll look a bit small.
I suppose the exposed crew would be similar to a weapon's team. If you're going to use realistic looking vehicles though, you'd have to go ahead and replace any other vehicles in your army as well. Having something like this next to a Games Workshop vehicle will look weird (the GW one's lack of details and ridiculous proportions being the main issues). I'd look towards finding some 1/48th scale replacements for the rest as well (i.e. Tiger IIs for Leman Russ, something like a Katzchen for a Centaur or a Panther converted over to an APC for the Chimera (there wasn't really any WWII examples that fit the bill of the BMP styled Chimera. Most of those came in the following decades - though the British did have a 50 man APC just after the war ...which in 40K terms would hold maybe 10 guys).
The 2A3 Kondensator 2P (Russian: 2А3 «Конденсатор» - "Condenser") was a Soviet 406 mm self-propelled Howitzer. 2A3 is its GRAU designation.
The 2A3 originated during the Cold War as a response to the United States' new "Pentomic Division" tactical doctrine that emphasized heavy use of nuclear weapons including nuclear artillery. The US M65 cannon was introduced in 1952 and deployed in Germany in 1953. The Soviet Union started its own program to develop a 406mm self-propelled howitzer capable of firing nuclear projectiles, codenamed 'Objekt 271'.[1]
Grabin Design Bureau completed the artillery system in 1955. The 'Objekt 271' chassis from the Kotlin Design Bureau in Leningrad was completed soon thereafter. The unified system received the military industrial designation 2A3 and was completed in 1956 at the Kirov Works in Leningrad. Total production only amounted to four vehicles.[2]
Western observers got their first look at the new weapon during a 1957 parade on Red Square. Initially observers thought that the weapon was a mockup created for deterrent effect.
Kondensator had an exceptionally short service life. Following a period of extensive testing the weapons were assigned to the Artillery High Command reserve. There they remained in service until the military reforms of Nikita Khrushchev were enacted, favouring more effective missile systems over the super-heavy artillery and heavy tanks of the Stalinist era.[3]
All four Kondensator howitzers were retired in the mid-1960s. One of the weapons was placed on static display at the Central Armed Forces Museum in Moscow.
Eyeballing it, the large turret would be around a 40mm base sized. Maybe 50mm. Regardless, the main gun's barrel diameter looks smaller than an autocannon's. You could maybe get await with it for 40K if you replaced all the hatches to look larger, and probably the whole upper area with some form of casement (as those guns are *far* too small compared to GW's aesthetic).
Nifty British fighter from the 50s that still looks science fictiony today.
Nice MRAP
Another nice APC with a robot arm
And some useful terrain/accessory bitz. The milk jugs in particular raise all sorts of ideas. Maybe your Marines have to safeguard the Lord-Governor's baby, but the baby is hungry so they have to set out across hostile territory to get some milk. Or maybe a planet's cows are tainted by chaos and the Inquisition has to intercept the milk shipment before it infects billions of innocent citizens. The posibilities are endless!
(Milk jugs and a cart? What a totally random kit )
Not sure if they've already been in this thread, but the Meng Kids range has some interesting 'chibi' style WW2 kits - in particular the airplanes look good for greenskin flyers...
Scale shot with Tamiya paint - a touch small for an Ork flyer, but surely good for a Grot (or a Squat!)
For those who are looking for Leman Russ alternatives at a cheap price, I don't think you can really pass this tank up. They clock in at around $23AUD at full retail, and can usually be found a lot cheaper than that online. This kit is immensely detailed, coming with everything you need to detail the tanks interior as well as keeping it nice looking for the exterior, which includes some photo-etch grill pieces for the engine area. You could skip adding all this in and just keep the pieces around for conversion bits for other projects if you're looking to just use this as a wargaming piece. The engine could be converted nicely to be some kind of electrical charger for a laser cannon if you added in a few bits and pieces to it.
Since 8th Ed. has changed how vehicles work (no more need to worry about facing or front/side/rear armour values), the necessity for having a tank exactly to scale with the Leman Russ diminishes quite a lot. Here the T-34 is a great choice, as when you punch in the real world dimensions, and adjust using this wonderful scale calculator here, you can see that the 1/48 T-34 is slightly longer than a Leman Russ, but also a bit thinner (1.75cm by my reckoning) and shorter (about 2cm perhaps). The width can be solved by making some spaced armour for it, using whatever you want, and the height isn't really much of a consideration to be honest, unless you're really want to be that detailed.
Comes with plastic tracks for it as well, so no cheap rubber-band style ones for this nice model.
Price is around $20-40AUD, depending on retailer (cheaper to buy via ebay or hlj.com). This is the most modern MBT available at the moment, and has some really good sleek lines to it. Again, since facing and armour sides aren't involved any more, I don't think people will be too mad that you've got a tank which is longer length but thinner and shorter than a Leman Russ. A little plasticard converting to perhaps give it some reactive armour or change the basket on the back, and you've got something really nice to use for people who want a much more futuristic style tank. And it makes a change from buying a 1/48 Abrams to represent such. Best of all, it comes with plastic tracks instead of rubber belt ones, so you can have really nice looking tracks for your tank, with actual realism to them instead of just rounded sprockets and a glorified rubber band.
This kit is an absolute beast, while also being really easy to put together and exceptionally well designed. Retails from around $85-130AUD, depending on where you source it from (HLJ is a good place to find it in stock), and it is huge. The only drawback is that the tracks are only made in rubber, so unless you want to spend $50AUD for some workable metal ones, these will need to suffice.
However, here is the benefits of this kit - It's priced cheaper than a Baneblade (for Australians at least); it comes with fantastically made slide-tooled parts to make it wonderfully tight fitting and accurate; it's the same size as a Baneblade/Fellblade. In fact this would be a hell of a lot cheaper to buy than a Fellblade/Fellglaive, and looks cooler as well. How do I know that they are the same size? This wonderful youtube video shows me how close they are in size!
I have two of these kits, and I wish I had 10. They are so fantastic to put together. Oh and if you buy some Kotobukiya M.S.G. weapon add-ons (like this Sentry Gun or these for sponson weapons, they fit in perfectly with this tanks style.
8E has really freed us up on what we can use to represent vehicles, and so long as the tanks are within reasonable similar dimensions, I don't see why we can't use them on the table-top.
ph34r wrote: Those world war toon tanks are amazing. Definite conversion potential.
I have converted 10 of them into ork tanks. 4panzeriv, 5 kv2 and 1 king tiger. Really easy to fit 40k sized weapon on them as their weapon are already the right diameter.
So so redeemer flame canon on the kv2 and some kustom blasta on the others. The kv2 just scream 40k.
Note that the king tiger is the size of a leman russ and could be used for that too.
The ming planes are too narrow to fit even grots though.
The egg plane series on the other hand makes great mini dakjajet with grots pilot. A tad pricy unless your ok with 3 month delivery
ph34r wrote: Those world war toon tanks are amazing. Definite conversion potential.
I have converted 10 of them into ork tanks. 4panzeriv, 5 kv2 and 1 king tiger. Really easy to fit 40k sized weapon on them as their weapon are already the right diameter.
So so redeemer flame canon on the kv2 and some kustom blasta on the others. The kv2 just scream 40k.
Note that the king tiger is the size of a leman russ and could be used for that too.
The ming planes are too narrow to fit even grots though.
The egg plane series on the other hand makes great mini dakjajet with grots pilot. A tad pricy unless your ok with 3 month delivery
I'd warn that the Hobbyboss kits aren't that amazing if we're in the realms of scale WWII tanks. The details are shallow, some pieces are overly thin and I found that many of their kits have flash and mould imperfections in small holes which you're supposed to insert parts into. Though if you're using them for Warhammer detail's probably not a massive concern and most would be left off anyway.
Tamiya do an IS-2 which has an 88 that may be more suitable for a stand in as a Leman Russ, though costs a few pounds more than Hobby Boss' kits (I remember buying one of those T-34s when they were just out for £10).
Wyrmalla wrote: I'd warn that the Hobbyboss kits aren't that amazing if we're in the realms of scale WWII tanks. The details are shallow, some pieces are overly thin and I found that many of their kits have flash and mould imperfections in small holes which you're supposed to insert parts into. Though if you're using them for Warhammer detail's probably not a massive concern and most would be left off anyway.
Tamiya do an IS-2 which has an 88 that may be more suitable for a stand in as a Leman Russ, though costs a few pounds more than Hobby Boss' kits (I remember buying one of those T-34s when they were just out for £10).
You're absolutely right to be concerned about Hobby Boss' stuff, as a lot of what they have made in the past has been shoddy. The T-34 kit though, from what I have seen online, is really good for its price. Some flashing to deal with, and perhaps details aren't as amazing as perhaps a Tamiya kit, but still really great for the price.
A good kit review and build can be seen here;
If people are looking to buy 1/48 kits, especially for modern armor, I'd recommend staying away from Academy Kits. Their level of detail is pretty shoddy, and a lot of it is solid cast in places instead of adding in the parts or pieces needed. Oh and they only have rubber band tracks, which look pretty bad in comparison to actual track. You could hide the drive sprocket under some up-armouring, but it's better to avoid these altogether. Buy Tamiya instead. If tracks don't concern you, find some of the older Zhengdefu Kitech 1/48 models if you can, as they have a much better level of detail for their pieces.
I've used Hobby Boss 1/48th KV tanks in the past and they are a great kit. Definitely recommend and great detail.
But you need 1/35th guns and hatches to match the 40k style.
Or turret swaps from 40k ranges.
If you want Imperial guardsmen you can use Warlords Plastic SS box and give them all STG-44's as Autoguns.
You get 30 figures so it's an entire platoon.
For heavy weapon squads Rubicon do plastic Pak 36, Pak 38 and Pak 40 kits (remember to use Tamiya Extra Thin glue) and you could swap the Gun for a GW weapon easily.
For Tanks if you're using 28mm stuff you can grab 3 plastic tanks for £40-60 from warlord or Rubicon either separate or in Warlords case in platoons of 3.
You'd need to have more suitable guns still I think.
Grab yourself eagles. Guard accessories. And other 40k bits and you'd have an army for 1/2 the price
ph34r wrote: Those world war toon tanks are amazing. Definite conversion potential.
I have converted 10 of them into ork tanks. 4panzeriv, 5 kv2 and 1 king tiger. Really easy to fit 40k sized weapon on them as their weapon are already the right diameter.
So so redeemer flame canon on the kv2 and some kustom blasta on the others. The kv2 just scream 40k.
Note that the king tiger is the size of a leman russ and could be used for that too.
The ming planes are too narrow to fit even grots though.
The egg plane series on the other hand makes great mini dakjajet with grots pilot. A tad pricy unless your ok with 3 month delivery
What source did you order from?
Free time hobbies and hobbylinc. They are generally out of stock, so get on their mailing list so they warn you when they get some in. Otherwise you can use ebay but at least 6 weeks delivery... For the egg planes, youre stuck ordering from Japan... so about $70 for 8 planes with 1 week delivery. You can order from jp store through amazon, but delivery is over a month...
ValentineGames wrote: I've used Hobby Boss 1/48th KV tanks in the past and they are a great kit. Definitely recommend and great detail.
But you need 1/35th guns and hatches to match the 40k style.
Or turret swaps from 40k ranges.
If you want Imperial guardsmen you can use Warlords Plastic SS box and give them all STG-44's as Autoguns.
You get 30 figures so it's an entire platoon.
For heavy weapon squads Rubicon do plastic Pak 36, Pak 38 and Pak 40 kits (remember to use Tamiya Extra Thin glue) and you could swap the Gun for a GW weapon easily.
For Tanks if you're using 28mm stuff you can grab 3 plastic tanks for £40-60 from warlord or Rubicon either separate or in Warlords case in platoons of 3.
You'd need to have more suitable guns still I think.
Grab yourself eagles. Guard accessories. And other 40k bits and you'd have an army for 1/2 the price
I understand the desire to put guns on vehicles which are from Leman Russ tanks, so they are either easily spottable as being whichever variant you want, or look the part, but to be honest I don't really find this necessary if you're going to be using a proxy kit standing in for the Leman Russ. It works on the KV tanks, but for most everything else it just throws the dimensions out way too much. Battle Cannon's are just ridiculously proportioned, and you'd need something in 1/35 Tiger 1 scale to even get it looking somewhat right. If you tried it on the T-34/85, it would just look silly.
Instead, just use the guns which come with the tank itself. It's not too hard to show which one is which. For Panzer III's and IV's (which are also good Leman Russ stand-in's at 1/35 scale), the Battle Cannon would be the regular mid-length gun it comes with, a Demolisher or Conqueror could be the German assault gun (as also seen on some Stug's), and for the rest you could source a bunch of different styles of gun barrels from places like RBmodel.com, picking and choosing which one you like to be the representation of the type you're after. I will concede that the hatches will need to be larger unless you're already using 1/35 scale tanks. However if you are proxying tanks, you might be more than likely also proxying infantry also, which can be more reasonably sized.
I'd probably stay away from Warlord's tanks, as they're closer to 1/56th than 1/48, and also because you're already spoiled for choice from all the suppliers on offer. STG-44's would be a good gun choice though, and Warlord's guns are larger than 1/48, but not hideously chunky. Not a fan of their infantry though, they look a bit badly proportioned for my liking. However, each to their own. But yeah, any or all of these are good choices which would save you quite a lot of money.
If I paid full retail plus shipping for the 1/48 JGSDF Type 10 from Tamiya (about $30 and change), I am paying $53 less than a Leman Russ from GW per tank from my local GW store. That's huge. And considering I can also pick up Merkava IID's at around $40 incl. shipping which have almost identical dimensions to a Macharius, or M61A5's which are easy stand-in's for Baneblades or Fellblades, it all adds up really quickly. I have a ton of Mantic Corporation miniatures I haven't done anything with, and as the new Mantic GCPS miniatures come with sets for both heavy and light rifle variants, I could get a bunch of dudes ready for the gaming table at a heck of a lot less than what it costs for anything comparative from GW. We're spoiled for choice in our options, so I don't necessarily see any need to stick GW's oversized weapons on any proxy vehicle so long as you have a reasonable alternative which is easily able to be discerned when playing on the tabletop.
True, but this thread is about replacing 40k vehicles with historical kits for use in games, so ideally what we're looking for is what suits this purpose best. A few modifications here and there like shaping the turrets differently using plasticard or adding in extra armour is a good way to go. If you want to add 40k vehicle weapons to these kits that's fine, but I don't think it's completely necessary.
That's why I didn't say it was.
But you've got to fit the cartoon network style of 40k.
Guns too big for the tanks.
My suggestion was.
1/56th use 1/48th guns
1/48th use 1/35th guns
1/35th use 40k guns.
To add my experience, I'm using Tamiya 1/48 PzKpfw V Panthers as my Leman Russes. Dimensions are fitting almost right, as the tank is almost an inch longer, but on the other hand about the same length lower. But the main issue I had with it was the Leman Russ cannons (I use just the hull, turrets are GW), which are ridiculous, so I bought some plastic tubes (d=8, 6.5, 5) and made my own guns. They are still massive when compared to original guns, but much better looking. (I used the original KwK 42 as an autocannon barrel)
It also helps with 40king the models. Seeing a regular historical tank rolling next to Guardsmen or other Guard vehicles looks weird and it breaks the immersion IMHO)
On the other hand, weapons like heavy stubbers or heavy bolters are not that bad looking, even on 1/48 historical kit.
Very true. It's why I had to tube my Centurion guns.
Mind you I now have a very nice 1/35th 105mm gun to slap into a 1/48th KV-2 eventually to make a Vanquisher
A gallery post turned me on to a Russian company called AVD Models, lots of cold war era Russia trucks and vehicles that I think would be perfect for 40k
A WW2 era Soviet armoured train. If you remove the wheels and fair over the bottom hull, it could be easily be a Space Gothic anti-grav tank, or you could sling it under a zeppelin for a menacing gondola.
It's a bit pricey, though.
Out of interest, now that GW are concentrating so much of formularizing 40K kits, does anyone actually build non-GW kits for the game?
A WW2 era Soviet armoured train. If you remove the wheels and fair over the bottom hull, it could be easily be a Space Gothic anti-grav tank, or you could sling it under a zeppelin for a menacing gondola.
It's a bit pricey, though.
Out of interest, now that GW are concentrating so much of formularizing 40K kits, does anyone actually build non-GW kits for the game?
Definately, built a non-GW Ork truck recently from a model car kit, for example, as well as a bunch of DreamForge models for Scions and a Knight.
I use a lot of WWI Mk V tanks as Land Raiders. I have 6 of them. Not only do I like the look, it's about half the price even after rounding up bits.
I use DreamForge parts to kitbash Scions and Knights. I also use the Shadowkesh infantry from the Kickstarter as Dark Eldar Bodyguards.
My Squigoths are kitbashed from an old VOID miniature from 20 years ago. I also use a certain VOID miniature as Catachan Snipers, they fit in so well you can barely tell.
Deathwatch frag cannons? Collecting 16 of them would cost a fortune if done with GW parts. I used Anvil industry parts.
Being it's from Japan, they've sexed up a piece of agricultural equipment with a cute farm girl model you can build with her top off showing her sports bra.
Typical.
All that being said, I could see the machinery itself being converted into some kind of Orky Deff Chariot. 1/20 scale is a lot bigger than 40K so it's going to be man height on the table top.
Swap the rotovator blades to the front, and have it dragging a crew of Grots on a sled, something like that.
Not really historical but this probably fits best in here
due this autumn apparently, and at 1/35 is probably going to be bigger than Dust etc walkers (so it would work very well as a superheavy for weird WWII gaming etc)
...That's totally not a knock off of one of Dust's heavy walkers (and not the first time Model Collect have done that. Oh well, intellectual property doesn't exist in the gaming industry outside of GW).
Most Alt History games start up and die after a while. I suspect in part because they don't bother with actual historical accuracy, so don't manage to siphon off the historical market. Rather its the type of gamers who came from Games like 40K who may be interested instead. Who are typically flippant as to what they play, so eventually disappear off to collect something else with lasers and silly looking tanks.
Currently as far as I'm aware there's only really Konflikt 47. Secrets of the Third Reich had a revival, but it didn't seem to gain a massive amount of interest. Even K47 seems like a second or third tier product as far as Warlord Games are concerned. Its still supported and receiving expansions, with a release schedule set up for the immediate future (with big releases set for September). However its kind of tied to Bolt Action, and from what I played more like a home brew than a well balanced rule set. Tacking on features which are a bit cheesier than the regular WWII game.
Personally I just use existing rules sets and tack on the alternative history models. Its simple to stat them up if they're at least tied to reality (and not just space ships with plasma cannons). Though my own tastes lead me to just modifying other rules like Star Wars: Legion or Tanks for whatever setting I'm playing, rather than adopting a period specific set of rules.
Now I could be wrong, but I’m pretty sure that the dust setting is totally dead here in the uk. ‘‘Tis a shame really as the mech kits were pretty cool.
At least there's a few 1/72nd scale alternative history aircraft out there. Though in my own experience the real special stuff was done as short runs in resin, not mass produced plastic kits. I'd been looking for a helicopter for some German Paratroopers for instance, though just couldn't find the particular model I wanted, or the alternatives for a reasonable price.
It seems like historical miniatures are either focused on the smaller or larger scales, not the space in between, You can't even find a 1/50th resin kit for a T-54/5 - the most produced tank in history - if that's a way of judging things. I mostly just scratch build or convert my own stuff (which helps that I focus on modern vehicles largely based on Soviet era designs, and alt-history WWII stuff which to ease manufacturing used existing components ...eugh, other than these damn Soviets I'm working on right now who are all over the place - despite their ethos of incremental changes).
...Ah, but I'm perhaps bringing the baggage of a historical modeler into a thread mostly concerned about stuff which looks cool for 40K. Most I suspect will just stick a drain pipe onto that tank I'm griping about the details with and call it a Leman Russ.
Wyrmalla wrote: At least there's a few 1/72nd scale alternative history aircraft out there. Though in my own experience the real special stuff was done as short runs in resin, not mass produced plastic kits. I'd been looking for a helicopter for some German Paratroopers for instance, though just couldn't find the particular model I wanted, or the alternatives for a reasonable price.
It seems like historical miniatures are either focused on the smaller or larger scales, not the space in between, You can't even find a 1/50th resin kit for a T-54/5 - the most produced tank in history - if that's a way of judging things. I mostly just scratch build or convert my own stuff (which helps that I focus on modern vehicles largely based on Soviet era designs, and alt-history WWII stuff which to ease manufacturing used existing components ...eugh, other than these damn Soviets I'm working on right now who are all over the place - despite their ethos of incremental changes).
...Ah, but I'm perhaps bringing the baggage of a historical modeler into a thread mostly concerned about stuff which looks cool for 40K. Most I suspect will just stick a drain pipe onto that tank I'm griping about the details with and call it a Leman Russ.
Suppose you don't know any decent sized Artillery pieces that could stand in for a Thudd gun / Heavy mortar or an Earthshaker?
As 40K stand ins I'd imagine you're looking for some massive barrels on your artillery pieces. Which either means going for a larger scale of model and just not focusing on how out of scale the operating controls are, or finding something with such a large bore, If you're using these models for 40K then you'd want to probably err towards larger scales anyway, as the official models tend to have outsized proportions.
There really isn't much in the way of anything in 1/48th scale for set artillery pieces. Outside of Italeri's 88mm flak gun. Even 1/48th scale may be too small however. The largest producers of artillery pieces come in 1/56th scale - commonly used for 28mm historicials, like Warlord Games, Trench Worx, Company B, Perry Miniatures etc. Without working on them most would at best count as Auto or Lascannons, as they'd be just too small for 40K. As are the large bore pieces not something so common in 28mm, as they aren't feasible for actual game use - and those which do appear are mostly self propelled like on tank chassis.
All this to say, most of the 40K applicable artillery pieces seem to come from after market 40K companies like Victoria Miniatures. Though you may get away with the largest of 28mm models like these from Heer 46. Even the Soviet B-4 has a smaller bore than a Leman Russ' Battlecannon (to get to that size in 28mm the piece would have to be the size of a few train cars...).
Wyrmalla wrote: As 40K stand ins I'd imagine you're looking for some massive barrels on your artillery pieces. Which either means going for a larger scale of model and just not focusing on how out of scale the operating controls are, or finding something with such a large bore, If you're using these models for 40K then you'd want to probably err towards larger scales anyway, as the official models tend to have outsized proportions.
There really isn't much in the way of anything in 1/48th scale for set artillery pieces. Outside of Italeri's 88mm flak gun. Even 1/48th scale may be too small however. The largest producers of artillery pieces come in 1/56th scale - commonly used for 28mm historicials, like Warlord Games, Trench Worx, Company B, Perry Miniatures etc. Without working on them most would at best count as Auto or Lascannons, as they'd be just too small for 40K. As are the large bore pieces not something so common in 28mm, as they aren't feasible for actual game use - and those which do appear are mostly self propelled like on tank chassis.
All this to say, most of the 40K applicable artillery pieces seem to come from after market 40K companies like Victoria Miniatures. Though you may get away with the largest of 28mm models like these from Heer 46. Even the Soviet B-4 has a smaller bore than a Leman Russ' Battlecannon (to get to that size in 28mm the piece would have to be the size of a few train cars...).
Thanks, something to mull over, very much appreciated, the diameter does not really concern me, moreso the main part of the gun size wise. ( considering my Renegades and heretics are from the anvil regiments line i am not to concerned with the overbroad barrels.)
I have Warlord Games' 10.5cm German Howitzer in use with my modern Syrians (IIRC Czech post-war copies have shown up there). You could fit it on a 60-70mm round base I guess. Its 1/56th scale and so thinner proportioned than those Victoria Miniatures gun pieces - and probably a bit more complex to put together due to the size of the parts (and lack of instructions). The barrel's about as thick as a plastic Lascannon; even a 12.8 cm (one of the largest anti-tank guns of WWII) has a barrel just a tad thicker than a Lascannon - which are a few of the Heer46 models I linked.
Wyrmalla wrote: I have Warlord Games' 10.5cm German Howitzer in use with my modern Syrians (IIRC Czech post-war copies have shown up there). You could fit it on a 60-70mm round base I guess. Its 1/56th scale and so thinner proportioned than those Victoria Miniatures gun pieces - and probably a bit more complex to put together due to the size of the parts (and lack of instructions). The barrel's about as thick as a plastic Lascannon; even a 12.8 cm (one of the largest anti-tank guns of WWII) has a barrel just a tad thicker than a Lascannon - which are a few of the Heer46 models I linked.
Damn that Polish tank is nice. It looks perfect for any "near-future" sci fi setting. That, a modified Merkava, and the Swedish S-Tank would make for a brilliant US Colonial Marines armored force.
Yeah it was just a cool concept tank, and was promoting the idea of active camouflage, and impossible-to-see infrared protection etc. Pretty neat ideas, but won't be an actual tank anytime soon. Cool sales convention stuff though
At 1/35 scale, unless the tank itself is incredibly small, it will likely have to be something like a Macharius or similar. Looks great though, and I had hoped someone would release this as a kit at some point.
From this page it gives the dimensions of the tank as length 7m (which likely includes the barrel), width 3.8m and height 2.8m.
Put through a scale calculator, it spits out the model dimensions as being 20cm long, 10.85cm wide and 8cm high.
I found these dimensions on this forum for the Baneblade;
Length: 22cm from the rear tracks to the front tracks. 20cm from the engine to the front of the tank.
Width: 14cm Not including Sponsons. 18cm including sponsons.
Height: 6 cm from the bottom of the tracks to the top of the main body. Add a further 1.5cm for the main gun mount.
So the length isn't going to be correct, because the real life dimensions include the barrel, the width is 4cm short, but the height seems ok. You'd need to figure some way to lengthen and widen the chassis, unless you want to start sticking a bunch of expanded armour plates on it, maybe fuel tanks or power plant on the back. But if you did so I think you'd ruin its aesthetic, and could pretty much use any tank in its place instead.
Been working on fliers lately and found some cool cold war ones that would work in 40k.
IIRC the F7 Cutlass was a terrible plane, but damn it looks good. Lightning count as?
My go to at 1/48 scale was going to be Hobby Boss' T34 tank, because it's amazingly detailed, comes with plastic tracks and is very reasonably priced. But now this has come about, it would be a really interesting one to check out, as it is a lot more modern, so you don't get stuck in a WWII tank theme like a lot of IG proxy armies do.
I am not sure how many other 1/48 Soviet stuff is out there, but it would be worth checking out. A small tank or vehicle that is scaled at 1/35 might also work quite nicely, but you'd have to check it out first. I find Wikipedia is useful to gauge the vehicles dimensions, then I use an online scale calculator set at the right size (ie 1/35) to find out how big those real world dimensions would work out to in cm/mm, and see if it is a good fit.
A lot of the 1/35 stuff is sadly too large, unless you're looking for things like a Mecharius proxy, but 1/48 tanks should be able to stand in for Leman Russ tanks quite well.
Fenriswulf wrote: My go to at 1/48 scale was going to be Hobby Boss' T34 tank, because it's amazingly detailed, comes with plastic tracks and is very reasonably priced. But now this has come about, it would be a really interesting one to check out, as it is a lot more modern, so you don't get stuck in a WWII tank theme like a lot of IG proxy armies do.
I am not sure how many other 1/48 Soviet stuff is out there, but it would be worth checking out. A small tank or vehicle that is scaled at 1/35 might also work quite nicely, but you'd have to check it out first. I find Wikipedia is useful to gauge the vehicles dimensions, then I use an online scale calculator set at the right size (ie 1/35) to find out how big those real world dimensions would work out to in cm/mm, and see if it is a good fit.
A lot of the 1/35 stuff is sadly too large, unless you're looking for things like a Mecharius proxy, but 1/48 tanks should be able to stand in for Leman Russ tanks quite well.
Are you going to get one then?
Also, IG always struck me as from interwar to slight postwar thematically in their vehicle design, so this is imo a good fit for a local tank version.
I have bought a lot of kits to try and proxy as Leman Russ tanks. I bought a 1/35 M41 Bulldog and a 1/35 M60A2 and they're way too big. I managed to find a 1/48 M60A1, and while width wise it was perfect, it was too long. That's not really a problem if you don't care, and I guess if you have a long barrel it's not a problem, but they didn't look like what I wanted in a tank. The 1/48 M60A1 should be around the same dimensions as a T-55 I reckon, so it would be the same deal there, where it is perfect so long as you don't mind it being a bit onger in length, and possibly shorter in height.
So now instead I am using the Secret Weapon Miniatures AFV, but modifying it to have tracks instead of wheels. I want to make a semi-futuristic force, and this looks like it would work well. I am taking the tracks from the 1/35 M60 T97E2 workable track link set I bought and either using them as is (making the vehicle wider in the process), or cutting them back to being only 1cm wide. I'll have to think about it. (Edit: Checking with the picture of the AFV, the wheels jut out further than the skirts, making the width about the same as the track links I have bought, so I might just use them as is).
But if I were to go to do a different theme, I probably wouldn't care about the extra length and grab something like this. The tank looks nice, you can easily change up the turret if you want a different look, but overall it's pretty cool.
One thing to keep in mind is after the war tanks got bigger. A WWII tank is like the size of a van, so a 1/35 Sherman is a different animal than a 1/35 Abrams.
Yeah exactly this. So if you want something Merkava sized, 1/35 post-war is your best bet. For Leman Russ sized, if you want as close dimensions as possible, the 1/48 T34 is a good choice. If you don't care about length and want something more modern looking, then 1/48 modern is for you.
If you wanted to use it as a Leman Russ, it's the right length (11cm), but 2.7cm thinner on the width, and 1.7cm too short. If you wanted to put the effort in with spacer armour, it might work out, but it'd look a little odd. Could proxy as something else though, but I don't know what.
I've done some checking on various tanks from WWII which could be used as Leman Russ proxy's. And so far, the 1/35 M3/M5 Stuart is probably the closest I've found to the size of a Leman Russ. It's 2cm longer than a Russ, but only slightly thinner (1.5cm thinner) and only 0.16cm shorter. Has the benefit of having a hull mounted weapon, and the turret has a co-axial machine gun which you could have as either a storm bolter or stubber. It wouldn't be too hard to change up the main gun either, giving it a bigger, heavier or longer barrel (not Russ sized, that would look terrible) to represent the different gun types. For me, the M5 turret looks the best, and is longer so it looks like it could easily house a bigger gun, which it did on the variants that were made. There was a 75mm howitzer version of this tank made, so a demolisher cannon isn't out of the question
The other benefit is that it has quite chunky side armour areas where you could attach kit bashed sponsons. Overall I think it's one of the closest substitute tanks you can get, and there is a heck of a lot of makers of this tank in 1/35, so price for them would be quite reasonable.
Here's a neat build a modeller did of a very old Tamiya M5 kit with some resin accessories. More modern versions of this kit are available.
For Australian buyers, you can get the Tamiya 1/35 M5A1 kit which comes with 4 figures for it for $33.50AUD from BNA Model World, compared to $83AUD for a Leman Russ from GW.
Just went looking online, Aussies can get the 1/35 M8 Howitzer variant of this for around $30AUD. Looks the part as a Leman Russ Demolisher.
Das Werk does awesome (but sadly limited run IIRC) kits of lesser known vehicles and equipment pieces. Watching uncle Night Shift on youtube building their Rutscher kit is good fun.
Thickness has always been the issue for proxying GW tanks.
Real world tanks are limited in their width by the size of roads, tunnels, bridges etc. Plus thinner tanks are harder to hit. But GW tanks are a bit too wide for scale.
I know! I googled it, and it's apparently German for 'Sphere Tank', they built one, never used it and it ended up in a Russian museum. So apparently even the Nazis thought it was a stupid idea.
Even wikipedia has like 2 lines on it. And wikipedia has 50 pages on Light Sabre fencing.
Having worked in the mining industy for quite a while, I am very drawn to the Bucket Wheel Excavator. I don't think it would necessarily have a tabletop role, but damn it looks great!
On impulse, I bought the 1/35 M8 Howitzer for $30.80AUD, shown on the right in the photo below. It looks fantastic, and is a snap at the price compared to a Demolisher. Once I receive it and put it together, I'll take some photos and show how it measures up next to a Leman Russ.
Looks like the pigeons kit is under 20 quid on ebay, so I might pick one up. Comes with 36 birds, so enough to populate 3-5 Razorwing Flock bases easily and still leave a couple for diorama building. Of course if they came out with a box of crows or vultures, that'd be even better.
Fenriswulf wrote: Yeah, at 1/56 scale it will be too small. The 1/35 versions of these are pretty damn close to Taurox size (longer, slightly thinner and shorter).
Hmm, it might work as an alternative Ridgerunner for GSC
Back on the T55 Model from Tamiya, after running the contents thorugh the converter, thanks for providing that , i'd say they'd make some nice alternatives for Salamander scout tanks, the main cannon is thin enough for an AC; maybee cut down on the barrel a bit, nothing to dificult, and the MG serves as the Heavy Bolter.
Tanks being too large for their statline has few ingame benefits, so I've not met many people who've ever objected to scratch-builds and conversions that aren't exactly to scale, even in past editions where unit footprints mattered more thanks to deep striking, blast templates and the like.
I was more worried it would look out of place in the aesthetic, not the actual stats. I, too, have no problems with people going larger for kitbashed or proxy vehicles.
A vanquisher is excactly 1 CM shorter. Including Barrel, the body is nearly equal.
the main body is infact of equal length,, albeit the hight is a bit iffy at about 1 cm , which is why i suggested running it as a Salamander scout tank.
Fenriswulf wrote: I was more worried it would look out of place in the aesthetic, not the actual stats. I, too, have no problems with people going larger for kitbashed or proxy vehicles.
I generally find that the best aesthetic results come from shortening 1:35 models, usually by cutting down engine compartments.
If anybody thinks of getting the Carnodon tank, and does not want to sell their house, wife or kidney, I give you... The Pz IV! It has almost identical dimensions to a Rhino, and let's face it, the Carnodon is basically an ancient Predator, so...
Fenriswulf wrote: And yeah, those pigeons are actually pretty great Paint them white and they could be Dove stand-in's
Most white doves are pigeons. Standard domestic / feral pigeons are domesticated rock doves, and white doves are usually breeds of pigeon selected for their looks. Apart from the colour, there is basically no difference.
Yeah, I can see that. And even cheaper than the GW piece, though it doesn't come with the built up area. A good idea for a kitbash though.
So, I got a few kits today to see how they match with the Leman Russ tank. Made as much of the tank as I could before I didn't dare to go further because I didn't want to stick things together and possibly not be able to assemble the tank as I wanted.
Here is the 1/35 M5A1 Stuart Tank in comparison with a Leman Russ. 1.5cm thinner, but also that much longer, so I think it evens out. The back end of it is also higher , so you've got a good enough silhouette for the tank. If it really worries you, you could always add some spacer armour to it, or so something with the sponsons if you decide to add them. A touch shorter, but not really enough to warrant a problem. Can always put it on a base if that annoys you.
I think it's a great match. Now I am trying to figure out how I can space out a 1/48 Sherman tank to become a Chimera
Some are smaller scale 1/72, 1/188 for the bomber, but you might find some use or just do them for fun. I wonder if the Soviet Tank is close enough to be a cheap mass-production Leman Russ.
Easy E wrote: I have always loved the B-36 Peacemaker.
I was doing some reading on it, apparently it was commissioned in 1943, completed in 1949 and later refit with those weird jets on the ends of the wings.
As for the use of art, for older kits maybe photo reproduction for packaging wasn't good enough? Or a fear they wouldn't have a model complete in time to photograph for the packaging? Or maybe just a fear that if the product didn't match the photo they'd be sued?
Easy E wrote: I have always loved the B-36 Peacemaker.
I was doing some reading on it, apparently it was commissioned in 1943, completed in 1949 and later refit with those weird jets on the ends of the wings.
As for the use of art, for older kits maybe photo reproduction for packaging wasn't good enough? Or a fear they wouldn't have a model complete in time to photograph for the packaging? Or maybe just a fear that if the product didn't match the photo they'd be sued?
It's just the way some companies do it. Testors generally has pictures of the assembled and painted model. Others prefer more active images of the vehicle in action.
Easy E wrote: I have always loved the B-36 Peacemaker.
I was doing some reading on it, apparently it was commissioned in 1943, completed in 1949 and later refit with those weird jets on the ends of the wings.
As for the use of art, for older kits maybe photo reproduction for packaging wasn't good enough? Or a fear they wouldn't have a model complete in time to photograph for the packaging? Or maybe just a fear that if the product didn't match the photo they'd be sued?
Or maybe because art looks better than just a photo of a model? GW just slapping a photo of the models onto the box is terrible, imo. The art was so much more interesting and nicer.
A 1/48 IS-3 will be around 8" long and 3" wide. You could shorten the hull to make it closer to a Russ in length, or just leave it longer. Guard tanks are too square anyway.
Almost wishing I still made terrain. That Peacemaker would make one hell of a cool crash.
The howitzer seems a bit small.
0.4 Cm barrel width with 10 CM barrel length. Probably not there for a Earthshaker count as, but certainly capable enough for a Thud or Big mortar stand in.
That is with the right base.
potentially interesting for use, still 'd prefer a piture for size estimation.
Justyn wrote: A 1/48 IS-3 will be around 8" long and 3" wide. You could shorten the hull to make it closer to a Russ in length, or just leave it longer. Guard tanks are too square anyway.
Almost wishing I still made terrain. That Peacemaker would make one hell of a cool crash.
The issue with the leman russ is imo, that anything chimera based is longer then it Same as mentioned above with the t55 , it can stand in perfectly as a Salamander scouttank dimension wise but not really as a Leman russ, mainly due to the body.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Justyn wrote: Anyone looking for Guard artillery should give that 8" Howitzer a look, at about $17 it shouldn't take much conversion to look very 40k.
As some of the smaller available guard arty pieces, yes quite likely.
Then again i use 8,8 AA guns with AC cannon parts as count as thudd / Big mortar field guns.
I don't know if it has already been mentioned, but the VsKfz 617 from Meng has a very 40k Imperial Guard vibe. 1/35, but could be a nice proxy for a CRASSUS or to kitbash a superheavy
http://www.meng-model.com/en/contents/66/158.html
I used to have some Lemans that were Sherman tank toys with Merkava turrets. It actually kind of worked.
Huh, yeah I can see that working. I'm just itching to get out of lockdown to be able to go kitbash some scratch build, but the pre lockdown prices of GW models were competitive.
Another thing I stumbled about only today is Wespe Models:
https://www.wespemodels.com/military_models/military_models_scale_1_48 they have a broad range of 1/48 and 1/35 trucks/cars from around WW2 including various things that could stand in for Taurox, Tauros, Centaur Carrier if one runs his IG with a WW2 vibe.
This is a weird thread. My perspective is that GW makes great models but terrible rules/games. I am always looking for new SciFi game systems to use my 40k models with. In fact, there is a new rule set for skirmish called Grimdark that is superior to Kill Teams. Why ruin perfectly good models by bringing them into a GW game?
Tokhuah wrote: This is a weird thread. My perspective is that GW makes great models but terrible rules/games. I am always looking for new SciFi game systems to use my 40k models with.
GW's models are good but most factions miss a complete range of good models (Dark Eldar are the only ones were everything is on the same level) and they are expensive
and 40k is the game that is played, so it is easier to use it as a standard to search for stuff
No one would post here if the title would be "historical kits possible use in Deadzone & Warpath"
Tokhuah wrote: In fact, there is a new rule set for skirmish called Grimdark that is superior to Kill Teams. Why ruin perfectly good models by bringing them into a GW game?
Every SciFi Skirmish out there is better than Kill Team (and every mass-battle SciFi rules set you find will be better than 40k and searching for cheap alternatives to play a popular game is a way to not waste money on something terrible)
Also a lot of people don't want to play a game were they cannot use their whole collection 1:1 as they do in 40k, which also removes the option to play older editions as the new cool Character models is not there but just a generic HQ etc.
Back to topic, I was searching here for inspiration for a Lancer Main Battle Tank for Warpath as there is no models yet:
Yeah 1/72 is way too small for 40k, but might be of use in other games. Generally you want 1/48 for bigger stuff (planes and modern tanks) 1/35 for smaller (WWII tanks and such).
Automatically Appended Next Post: Plus there's always inspiration to be found.
And if someone is making something in 1/72 it may exist in other sizes too. Like here's the same APC in 1/35 for $50.
People play GW games despite the bad rules for the same reason they always have: As the biggest game company out there the game is everywhere. That makes it easy to pick up a game anywhere you go. It really is that simple.
Sure, there are a dozen games that are overall better. Which means in a typical gaming community of a couple dozen people there are two or three advocates of each game. Getting those two or three people together generally takes scheduling, and isn't very good for pickup games.
Has anyone attempted to use the Bolt action m13/40 that are 1:56 for 40k?
I used the calculator provided a bit back and they somewhat would fit in , kinda?
I'd really appreciated a pic or 2 with one of These Next to a chimera.
Any of the 1/56th scale kits will be small by 40K standards, the m13/40 for example will be just under 9cm long but the hatches and details will be tiny by 40K standards. 1/48th scale kits are better if you can find what you want and sometimes even 1/35th, especially some of the smaller AFVs.
klingsor wrote: Any of the 1/56th scale kits will be small by 40K standards, the m13/40 for example will be just under 9cm long but the hatches and details will be tiny by 40K standards. 1/48th scale kits are better if you can find what you want and sometimes even 1/35th, especially some of the smaller AFVs.
yeah my thoughts aswell, then again the 105 mm howitzer from the japanese army would probably make for a nice fieldgun not a heavy one but certainly a good stand in for a quad or / heavy mortar.
I did exactly that, some 10 years ago with a previous plastic kit of the vehicle. Apologies for the awful picture, I haven't taken it out in forever so the ancient photobucket uploads are all I have at hand.
To add to the Meng/World War Toons talk - I just finished adding some 40k-ness to their French somua s35 kit, and thought I'd post some pics as its kinda relevant to this thread:
I've had some resin tank tracks in my bits box for years (from Zinge I think), and they fit perfectly on this. Rest of the parts are mainly left overs from the Skorpius Dunerider/Disintegrator kit.
Kawaii and awesome! Good call on replacing the tracks, I've have a few of these myself and while the kit is of nice quality, the tracks aren't, they tear and snap all too easily.
Well i bit the Billet in 2 1:35 wespe models from tamaya,
Three it through the scale calc aswell comes in a Rad longer , higher but less broad then a chimera, intend to Run it as a Griffin or basilisk.
Should probably Post endproduct if it worked out.
Elbows wrote: Hmmm, yeah 1:35 is big...but a Wespe was very small, so I can see that working out okay-ish.
Maybe modify the gun slightly so you can slip in/on/off a barrel to change it from Griffon to Basilisk and back and forth?
Nice idea on that, i mostly want to Spike it up a bit, and even if it turns out too large for a griffon i then also can get a better grasp at the weapon in it, aka 10.5 howitzer at 1:35 which if it fits well might aswell will stand in for my earthshakers.
Measurement wise, it's about a 1 cm smaller on the front but about 1 cm larger then a chimera so nobody will really care mostliekly.
More concered with the plastic quality and where i get the crew for it, probably have to kitbash some aswell.
The 1:35 Wespe from Tamaya is too smallish for a Basilisk, well the gun is, but as suspected the howitzer makes for a rather nice selfpropelled arty piece and the size beeing less broad then a chimera but a bit longer and higher makes for a nice wannabee griffon imo.
Secondly: since this is a 10.5 cm howitzer we can learn the following, if you'd were to find a 1:35 10.5 CM LeiFH you'd have a good alternative to FW field artillery.
Thirdly: Tamaya quality as expected, is 1.A
Fourth: I need more spikes and corpses and other bitz,
Fifth: i can't wait to find more such interesting vehicle alternatives.
Nice! Looks like it would be easy to extend the gun with plastic tubing if it really bugs you but it seems well within the boundaries of what a basilisk should be. No one would mistake it for something else.
Kid_Kyoto wrote: Nice! Looks like it would be easy to extend the gun with plastic tubing if it really bugs you but it seems well within the boundaries of what a basilisk should be. No one would mistake it for something else.
it's less the length, which fits btw, but rather the calibre, however atm i like the size because it allows me to "downdeclare them" into griffons for my 31.st. or up declare them into a basilisk.
Did much the same with a Wespe model for my guard, though the model wasn't Tamiya and the tracks were *individual* pieces that I just didn't have the patience to put together (like 100+ tread units per side). Unfortunately, haven't found replacement treads yet, but may see if e-bay has some loose tamiya replacements I can use to finish the model off now.
Also, really like the modifications on the "toon" tank. I bought the Panther kit and out of the box it makes a nice Leman Russ tank, but I had avoided the Sherman kit because it looked too rounded. Nice to see what a modded up one (even though that's the French tank, think a similar job for the Sherman would work) to look more like a proper imperial tank - reminiscent of a pic from the old Rogue Trader rulebook.
Nicky, that Meng Somua looks ideal for some 40Kifying, nice work. I actually have one of those and one of the Char Bis on the way to me. Looks like I should be able to make them work for Guard somehow then
EDIT: Dang it, Meng came out with a Churchill too?? That feels like it will have great potential too!! For goodness sake... *Looks for wallet*
Elbows wrote: No offense to anyone here, but the best (and honestly only use I can agree with) for the Meng Toon Tanks is as the gobbo-tankette things (grot tanks?). They're perfect for that. I don't think they really fit anything else, even with modification. I've been tempted to buy a bunch and make a silly tankery-inspired game for my niece and nephew though...so...we all have bad ideas sometimes.
There's an upcoming churchill that might be big enough to be useful. It's still chunky but due to having a lot fewer rounded corners than some earlier ww2 tanks it ends up looking a bit more 40k-chunky than pure toy chunky. My personal tolerances for goofiness might just be higher. I already have a pile of bronekorpus tanks that need some assembly and plasticard so I'm not necessarily looking for a main tank option anyway.
I'm having a hard time finding good comparison pictures for some things, though, because it's really difficult to tell the approximate dimensions of these tanks from a picture of them alone due to their proportions. I'm also having a hard time finding any pictures of an assembled char b1 but that might just be because the kit is very new.
Rosebuddy wrote: I'm having a hard time finding good comparison pictures for some things, though, because it's really difficult to tell the approximate dimensions of these tanks from a picture of them alone due to their proportions. I'm also having a hard time finding any pictures of an assembled char b1 but that might just be because the kit is very new.
Not finished yet. (because im going to convert the crap out of it.)
I only learned about World War Toons kits thanks to this thread, and got a bunch to convert into Grot tanks (2 Shermans, 1 Stuart, 1 38T). I'm pleasantly surprised - the cartoony chunkiness of the models makes them much more useful for 40K than other historical kits, and they're cheap enough to experiment with. Incidentally, I also got a Char 2b, planning to turn it into something Imperial. The dimensions are not ideal - height and length are fine, but it's quite narrow. I decided to turn it into a Hellhound proxy:
It wasn't hard to magnetize and weapon swap, but I had to find another 1/48 tank hatch for the commander.
If you bisect the body up the middle and add a spacer to widen it's profile I think it would be solid. Right now, it's side profile is good but foot print and head on are lacking.
Red Corsair wrote: If you bisect the body up the middle and add a spacer to widen it's profile I think it would be solid. Right now, it's side profile is good but foot print and head on are lacking.
Bisecting a model, reassembling it and making it look good is a non-trivial operation.
I'd recommend adding stowage and such to the sides instead.
Red Corsair wrote: If you bisect the body up the middle and add a spacer to widen it's profile I think it would be solid. Right now, it's side profile is good but foot print and head on are lacking.
Bisecting a model, reassembling it and making it look good is a non-trivial operation.
I'd recommend adding stowage and such to the sides instead.
Well thats the rub. You cover the shoddy part with stowage when you bisect it and add a bit of armor to the front. The turret and stowage on the back will hide most of it. You can even remove the front, use a larger front piece made from card stock and reglue the old front centered.
Bisecting the tank won't be easy, but I'd say it's possible. The top of the hull is asymmetrical, so you'd have to cut around some of the detail as well as the turret mounting, and the shape is fairly irregular, which means it'll be a bit of work to make plasticard spacers. The bottom of the hull is simpler, but also fairly solid, so you'll need a decent saw. I obviously didn't find it worth the trouble, but my 40K opponents are fairly tolerant. I just might make a cardboard template to mark the Hellhound footprint to preempt disagreements.
Red Corsair wrote: If you bisect the body up the middle and add a spacer to widen it's profile I think it would be solid. Right now, it's side profile is good but foot print and head on are lacking.
Bisecting a model, reassembling it and making it look good is a non-trivial operation.
I'd recommend adding stowage and such to the sides instead.
Well thats the rub. You cover the shoddy part with stowage when you bisect it and add a bit of armor to the front. The turret and stowage on the back will hide most of it. You can even remove the front, use a larger front piece made from card stock and reglue the old front centered.
In true hellhound fashion strap a boatload if barrels to the sides. One melts strike and boom.
Red Corsair wrote: If you bisect the body up the middle and add a spacer to widen it's profile I think it would be solid. Right now, it's side profile is good but foot print and head on are lacking.
Bisecting a model, reassembling it and making it look good is a non-trivial operation.
I'd recommend adding stowage and such to the sides instead.
Well thats the rub. You cover the shoddy part with stowage when you bisect it and add a bit of armor to the front. The turret and stowage on the back will hide most of it. You can even remove the front, use a larger front piece made from card stock and reglue the old front centered.
In true hellhound fashion strap a boatload if barrels to the sides. One melts strike and boom.
Anyone knows where to get a ton of barrels the right size?
For cheap?
Making my char 2B into russ with conqueror cannon, with cannon being in hull not turret. But the Renault's tank would make great hellhound (looks like 1st ed epic hellhound)
I do love the alternate modelling and kitbashing. Interesting shots of the char. as stated earlier, easiest would be side stowage to widen the tank. maybe the side skirt armour could be extended out from tracks ( ...and also side stowage )
I find greatest control with disecting models when using a plastic scriber - i have a tamiya one and you can cut around near anything with vehicle models.
i am using some meng toon tanks as leman russ alternatives. the german king tiger or tiger 2 model is one of the largest toon tanks. I have the kv2 as well i am slowly making a looted wagon. barrel swaps and front gun mount is easy. i not bother with side sponsons for these. images attached for scaling purposes.
any issues with images, chalk up to miniscule posts and massive lurks. the shots are in my dakka gallery.
Here's my painted Char, for anyone who's interested:
I didn't end up packing it with stowage or spaced armor, but it's an option for those who want a closer match. It would be a shame about those side panels, as they are perfectly 40K (in that they are WW1-ish).
The whole kit has been fun to build and convert. The only weakness, as mentioned, is the rubber tracks. I'd sprayed them with Leadbelcher to put them on in the end, but you need to stretch them so much that the paint flaked off in places and I had to paint over. I'd say you're better off painting them after assembly, or, where possible, replacing them with resin or plastic.
AceXT wrote: Here's my painted Char, for anyone who's interested:
Spoiler:
I didn't end up packing it with stowage or spaced armor, but it's an option for those who want a closer match. It would be a shame about those side panels, as they are perfectly 40K (in that they are WW1-ish).
The whole kit has been fun to build and convert. The only weakness, as mentioned, is the rubber tracks. I'd sprayed them with Leadbelcher to put them on in the end, but you need to stretch them so much that the paint flaked off in places and I had to paint over. I'd say you're better off painting them after assembly, or, where possible, replacing them with resin or plastic.
That just looks amazing. Fantastic work. I always admired the World War Toons tanks..... but never picked one up, thought about it though. Now, seeing them with 40K weapons and bits.... oh my that could be a slippery slope!
Although the leadbelcher flaked when you stretched the tracks to get them on, the spray paint didn't damage the rubber? Did you prime the tracks? I've seen spray cans damage vinyl tracks before, I think do to an additive in the rattlecans.
Thanks! I sprayed the Leadbelcher straight onto the tracks, and it was fine - good adhesion, no damage. I had to pull one end of the track pretty hard, so it's no surprise the paint flaked off at that spot, but the remaining 90% or so stayed on. I'd say it's safe to use GW sprays on these. The only damage to vinyl I ever had was with enamel-based AK Interactive weathering products.
That might work, if you're willing to put in the work. The Char tracks are about 1,2 cm wide. Also, that set of tracks is as expensive as the tank itself, but that's going to be the issue with pretty much all aftermarket bitz.
I think the easier conversion is to plasticard up the track areas, and then mount the tracks further out from the body, to widen it to Chimera/Hellhound size. In fact, I think I might give this a go myself... Might be easier to just cut the track sections off altogether and just widen the hull using whatever method, then putting the wheels and tracks on to that part.
Edit: Bought one for $22 AUD. That's 1/3rd the retail price of the Chimera here in Australia, and who knows what fraction of the $83 price for a Hellhound. Absolute bargain, and I no longer have to think about how to widen 1/48 Sherman's or M10's to make them into Chimera's/Hellhounds.
A piece of terrain I've always wanted to do is a gun range or rifle training range with "human" shaped dummy targets. Too bad those guys are a little too large. They'd have made great targets.
Makes me think of this combined with this. I'm scratching my head over the point of them, though. Maybe it's a cultural thing? At any rate, I can see one or two being used as sculpting dollies for some hobbyist's diorama.
Not new, heck my kit has followed me around for over 10 years till I finally built it but Tamiya's Citroen Staff Car kit is just about perfect for a 40k small car.
Oh man, those polygon soldiers are very cool. They'd make for a very cool take on Men of Iron, or some kind of massive statue built on an industrialized world.
Agamemnon2 wrote: Oh man, those polygon soldiers are very cool. They'd make for a very cool take on Men of Iron, or some kind of massive statue built on an industrialized world.
That statue thingy really has peaked my interest, in a way, probably going to sketch something abismal but maybee, get another centerpiece for my own table.
I could definitely see using them as a statue in a Soviet-style brutalist piece. Maybe two of them rolling a giant gear or raising a flag or something.
back in the days in the army i used to be driven around by a similar build... but from M.A.N... as it was with the Bundeswehr... when you are at the front, sitting beside the driver it is a kind of rollercoaster feeling...due to the seat and wheel positioning...
Haven't seen it in this thread, so... I've found this image (box art for apparently still unreleased model) - I've found this image (box art for apparently still unreleased model) - spoilered because of the size
The original vehicle was very small so even at 1:35 scale it should be appropriately sized for most tabletop applications, except for interior. But it should not be too eye-catching in a wrong sense - and easy to cover if needed. I'll be watching for it on Hannants and elsewhere (in hopes that it will not be a solid block of resin).
This isnt so much new, as the kits were released last year in 2019- but I couldn't find any reference to them in thread.
Another release of 'cute' stumpy styled world war 2 tanks, this lot by Doyusha models. I scored the last Tiger 1 one in stock at hlj so they may be getting hard to find. There were 4 in the release, KV2, sherman, Tiger 1 and the sturmtiger.
Size is nice for orc looted wagon type shenanigans. Nicer than Meng models as the tracks are plastic rather than rubber, the tracks are in strips that you pin to close the loop. For size comparison, the green KV1 tank chassis in photo is the meng world war toons. the Ork mek is a nob conversion on 40mm base.
Atlantis has annouced their 2021 schedule, no pictures though.
That $20 M-109 Howitzer looks like a great deal too. Its probably the old Aurora kit. So not great on detail by modern standards. But if you want cheap Basilisks and are going to cover it in mud and stowage anyway....
As with all historical kits, it's better to let some stuff away, especially smaller and more fidly parts. And in my case it needs alot more chaos bits, however, as you can also see, it's a perfect fit for an earthshaker / medusa and at half the price and in plastic.
Yeah, I am buying a 1/35 British Lee to convert into a Malcador, but I don't need everything from the kit. In fact, not using some of the internals will make it a lot easier to get the scratch built elements on it that I want. But it's a much cheaper way to get vehicles up and on the board than buying forgeworld. $40AUD vs $220AUD makes it a no brainer, especially since the model I am buying is really well detailed, comes with a ton of extras, including individual track links, and will be fun to convert to boot.
Meet the VJ101C-X1, a German concept for a VTOL supersonic fighter. The only kit I've found is 1/72 but for planes that can be made to work since GW often shrinks the size of fliers to fit the board.
Bit of an awkward one, I want to use something like a U-Boot Type VII C as the basis for a crashed ship for terrain that I will further kit bash to make it look more in fitting with the setting.
Anyway, I think a 1/144 with be too small, but a 1/72 will also be huge, possibly too big (and expensive). So, I'm after either very cheap 1/72 kits that people may know of as I will not use all of it, maybe just the first half, or alternatives. 1/144 alternatives could also be good, especially if you have a different idea? Maybe not a model, could be a toy, a tool, a container for certain things... Whatever. Any help appreciated.
EDIT: Or am I being a noob and is there a scale in between that I haven't found.
This is partly my inspiration, but the aesthetic and detail isn't what I want, I'm more looking at the base ship, which German U-Boats seem to have.
I also want it to be fairly large as that is what 40k has, large ships, I don't want it to looked like a crashed shuttle so much, maybe around a small lander size that can carry heavy equipment etc so it must look like it has some mass to it.
If you're making something into something totally different like a submarine into a shuttle I think size is more important than scale.
For a crashed ship you're probably looking for something 12"-24" so look for a kit about that size that has the shape you want. Don't worry about details too much since you will be adding a lot of your own and can cover or destroy any hatches that are too small.
Kid_Kyoto wrote: If you're making something into something totally different like a submarine into a shuttle I think size is more important than scale.
For a crashed ship you're probably looking for something 12"-24" so look for a kit about that size that has the shape you want. Don't worry about details too much since you will be adding a lot of your own and can cover or destroy any hatches that are too small.
Yeah, well looking at some of the kits, that are 1/72 (these are more pricey than I want to spend though ideally) I'm looking around 36-42" in length, which can be cut down, but yeah, quite hefty kits. The 1/144 are around 24". The issue seems to be the width (beam) though, they are quite thin.
I love the U boat shape but I'm not married to it, and alternative would be great, but at the size suggested above, I'd be looking for about 1/4 to 1/3 of the length in width also. The width (beam) on the above if I've calculated it would be around 3" for a 1/72 model.
Generalish dimension of the real life size
Length: 76.50 m (251 ft) o/a
Beam: 6.51 m (21 ft 4 in) o/a
Height: 9.40 m (30 ft 10 in)
If I have calculated the above wrong, please tell me, very new to scale conversions.
Picture of the model for purpose of helping you guys understand if you don't know the image off the top of your head:
EDIT: In terms of alternatives, every day trash and tat or other objects that are roughly in that shape could work, but having a mind black at the moment as to what I could use.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Aircraft carriers are also a good basis, as they are a bit more squared off and wide...
I am looking for advice from people experienced with this though and happy to follow that.
Beyond that there's a lot of other possibilities. If you look at my blog I found a helicarrier type toy about 24" that works as some sort of Imperial air transport. Klaus Not Santa is a miracle worker with plastic card and build a whole airship. Toys can also work better than models sometimes since they have more distorted proportions and are better for rough treatment.
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, if BrookM has been taken and probed then its a historical kit 
8478
My bad!
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