Anvildude wrote:
Basically, the Ork's version of "Objective Secured" is "There's no more enemies alive to claim that objective".

Spoken like a true ork!

My thought on Objective Secured is that if I use it, it's probably going to be a secondary detachment for Grot squads. Take an Ork Horde for the primary detachment, put everything that cares about Hammer of Wrath in it, then take a CAD with Grots and extra slots for whatever else is needed (for example, put MSU bikes/koptaz in the Horde, then supplement with a jet in the CAD).

The only thing in the codex that has any good reason to care about Objective Secured is Grots, because if anything else finds itself coexisting with a nearby enemy unit they are doing it wrong.

 Bludbaff wrote:
My thought on Objective Secured is that if I use it, it's probably going to be a secondary detachment for Grot squads. Take an Ork Horde for the primary detachment, put everything that cares about Hammer of Wrath in it, then take a CAD with Grots and extra slots for whatever else is needed (for example, put MSU bikes/koptaz in the Horde, then supplement with a jet in the CAD).

The only thing in the codex that has any good reason to care about Objective Secured is Grots, because if anything else finds itself coexisting with a nearby enemy unit they are doing it wrong.

Take Waagh! Ghazghkull's "Da Great Waagh!" Detachment.
Deep Striking Gretchin. I'm not even kidding.

... and now I need to play Orks, thanks Kanluwen. Well, need to play codex: gretchin.

 Yonan wrote:
... and now I need to play Orks, thanks Kanluwen. Well, need to play codex: gretchin.

Bear in mind it's on a roll of 5+, but anything besides Flyers can Deep Strike in that detachment.

Anything.

Does anyone else think Truks are pretty redundant now if you use the dataset from WD for looted wagons?

Truks are 35 pts and lost that valuable Kareen S3 explosion rule which made them a very useful transport for small squads.

But now, un-upgraded Looted Wagons are 37pts and give you AV11 F&S making them immune to being wrecked by bolter fire and immune to pen hits by heavy bolters.
Granted dount press dat could be annoying, but tbh my truks never last into turn 2 anyway. The new unbound rules make the heavy support slot a bit meaningless too.

Otherwise they are the same capacity.

Thoughts?

Trukks are fast, looted wagons are not.

Besides that, the main reason for taking trukks over looted wagons would be dedicated transport. Loosing all the additional rules from battleforged isn't really worth side-grading your trukks to looted wagons. Just ask a marine players how long rhinos survive during their games.

Anvildude wrote:
Basically, the Ork's version of "Objective Secured" is "There's no more enemies alive to claim that objective".

Pretty much. The armies in 7th (not just orks) are going to echo 4th Ed ones soon enough, minimum troops and maximum everything else. If I kill your troops, you lose objective secured as well. Trukk boyz are suicidal, big mobz are wasteful, 'Ard boyz are expensive, and grotz are runty. The only difference is Ive seen 40pt grot units win games.

 Jingles wrote:
Does anyone else think Truks are pretty redundant now if you use the dataset from WD for looted wagons?

Truks are 35 pts and lost that valuable Kareen S3 explosion rule which made them a very useful transport for small squads.

But now, un-upgraded Looted Wagons are 37pts and give you AV11 F&S making them immune to being wrecked by bolter fire and immune to pen hits by heavy bolters.
Granted dount press dat could be annoying, but tbh my truks never last into turn 2 anyway. The new unbound rules make the heavy support slot a bit meaningless too.

Otherwise they are the same capacity.

Thoughts?

No.

Don't let GW turn you into a guinea pig to try and get unbound going, reationalizing it as "well to even compete I NEED to be unbound" There is soooo much garbage out there that unbound just makes the game stupid, period. This is coming from someone who has played in an unbound tournament against MULTIPE 2 transcendent c'tan armies. If the cheezeheads in my area somehow got unbound popular, I know at least half the guys here would instantly drop it.

The best thing you can do is write in like me, asking for a faq to make it so SOMETHING can have the looted wagon as a dedicated transport.

Do not fall for unbound. You may use it as fluff, someone else will use it to live out their power fantasy and drive potential new players away.

It does seem like the new Ork dex is pushing in the direction of unbound armies. It will be interesting to see how the next few dex behave.

 Orock wrote:

 Jingles wrote:
Does anyone else think Truks are pretty redundant now if you use the dataset from WD for looted wagons?

Truks are 35 pts and lost that valuable Kareen S3 explosion rule which made them a very useful transport for small squads.

But now, un-upgraded Looted Wagons are 37pts and give you AV11 F&S making them immune to being wrecked by bolter fire and immune to pen hits by heavy bolters.
Granted dount press dat could be annoying, but tbh my truks never last into turn 2 anyway. The new unbound rules make the heavy support slot a bit meaningless too.

Otherwise they are the same capacity.

Thoughts?

No.

Don't let GW turn you into a guinea pig to try and get unbound going, reationalizing it as "well to even compete I NEED to be unbound" There is soooo much garbage out there that unbound just makes the game stupid, period. This is coming from someone who has played in an unbound tournament against MULTIPE 2 transcendent c'tan armies. If the cheezeheads in my area somehow got unbound popular, I know at least half the guys here would instantly drop it.

The best thing you can do is write in like me, asking for a faq to make it so SOMETHING can have the looted wagon as a dedicated transport.

Do not fall for unbound. You may use it as fluff, someone else will use it to live out their power fantasy and drive potential new players away.

+1. If there's one truth that I'd elaborate on its that we can't abuse unbound as much as other armies.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Bludbaff wrote:
My thought on Objective Secured is that if I use it, it's probably going to be a secondary detachment for Grot squads. Take an Ork Horde for the primary detachment, put everything that cares about Hammer of Wrath in it, then take a CAD with Grots and extra slots for whatever else is needed (for example, put MSU bikes/koptaz in the Horde, then supplement with a jet in the CAD).

The only thing in the codex that has any good reason to care about Objective Secured is Grots, because if anything else finds itself coexisting with a nearby enemy unit they are doing it wrong.

Take Waagh! Ghazghkull's "Da Great Waagh!" Detachment.
Deep Striking Gretchin. I'm not even kidding.

I havent really played since 4th edition.. even though I bought the fifth and sixth edition rulebooks...like a good GW drone. I ahve seen these terms "detahcments" and "supplemental codex" thrown around QUITE a bit in the past week or two. I have the new ork codex and wondering if you wouldnt mind briefly ELI5 what they are for me? Thanks so much. I plan on buying the 7th rulebook..but this damn newborn needs diapers and food again

Edit: also.. I read someone say you can still take a looted wagon via rules in WD. How can you use something thats not listed in the codex... but in a magazine...?

 lord_blackfang wrote:
They got stuck with this all-choppy-all-the-time image because they got stuck with BS2 for some reason during the switch from 2nd to 3rd edition and because of Andy Chambers' terrible 3rd edition codex. Previously, they played more like zany IG.

I don't understand the "terrible Codex" moniker for the 3rd edition.

Andy Chambers created the burna boys unit, the tankbustas unit, killa kans as a distinct unit from Deff Dreads, trukks as a distinction from Battlewagons, as well as the 'ardboys (and skarboys) options. He added Snikkrot and Zaggstruk and kept Nazdreg.

Kommandos were no longer limited to just Blood Axe clans and you could loot a wide variety of Imperial vehicles. We complain about losing Bikers and Nobs as troops, but we used to be able to take Burnaboyz and Tankbustas as troops!

Are there a lot of players out there who hate Tankbustas, Burna Boys, Killa Kans, Trukks, and Ardboys? Do most people rejoice that Wazzdakka is gone? Do they wish that Snikkrot, and Zaggstruk would go away? Are they glad we can't field Nazdreg any more?

I definitely see the reduction in the absolute gonzo zaniness of 1st edition, but that happened to every single army. No army pays for rolls on random wargear charts anymore. No army rolls for the number of models in a unit that you can buy. I'm not saying that the codex was perfect (Choppa rule was useful, but nonsensical, etc.), but a lot of the stuff that we now consider essentially orky stuff was added during the Overfiend's edition.

Think about an ork codex without:

Skikkrot
Zaggstruk
Burnaboys
Tankbustas
Looted Wagons
Trukks
Killa Kans

Is that the codex you are longing for? If not, thank Andy Chambers and his terrible codex.

*I'm not saying the 2nd edition was bad. I loved the crazy weapons. I think boarboyz were awesome. I just don't get the hate for the 3rd edition codex.

Is that the codex you are longing for? If not, thank Andy Chambers and his terrible codex.

Probably because it killed my Badmoons Shoota army I was starting to collect.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Is that the codex you are longing for? If not, thank Andy Chambers and his terrible codex.

Probably because it killed my Badmoons Shoota army I was starting to collect.

What kind of shooty? Shooty orks are so viable right now.

 Multimoog wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Is that the codex you are longing for? If not, thank Andy Chambers and his terrible codex.

Probably because it killed my Badmoons Shoota army I was starting to collect.

What kind of shooty? Shooty orks are so viable right now.

Well 3rd back then was very uh...Non shooty, it was the opposite of wave serpents where you wanted to charge forward and kill things in assault.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
I just don't get the hate for the 3rd edition codex.

BS 2

All heavy weapon choices were inferior versions of imperial counterparts

BS 2

No more 20 Mega Armored Bad Moon Nobz with Lascannons.

BS 2

No more Hop Splat Gun

Oh, and BS 2

My problem with the 3rd ed codex was that the background was non-existent. There were maybe 2-3 pages of fluff in the entire book, one of which was an often misunderstood imperial propaganda piece that's still responsible for a lot of misconceptions about Orks. Thankfully the last of the Psychic resonance myth has been removed from the latest codex (or at least has been as far as I know).

Since Orks were completely and utterly removed from their 2nd ed counterparts, the only sources of reliable background info came from the stupidly small fluff sections in the codex and Gorkamorka. While Gorkamorka was great, it was also hard to get at the time and was focused on a relatively small community of Orks so had no details about any of the great Waaaghs.

Reading through the Ghaz supplement and realizing it changes EVERYTHING about the main codex. It's completely possible to have any kind of playstyle and field a viable army. I've spent the morning making different lists in Quartermaster and the available variety is ridiculous. LOVE IT.

Really the supp isnt just new formations/a unit counts as this slot rather than this slot/new relic items like EVERY other supp does?

Interesting.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Really the supp isnt just new formations/a unit counts as this slot rather than this slot/new relic items like EVERY other supp does?

Interesting.

There's nothing where "a unit counts as this slot" in there. Formations, a new detachment organization where everything can Deep Strike(barring flyers).

ere we go : cool ability and with the new waagh gives the warboss something else to set him apart from other HQ choices, than just being a tough cc badguy

Mob rule : I really like the idea behind mob rule, I just think its results are a bit too harsh.
wargear, generally its cool. I can see the sense behind making rokkits cheaper and skorchas more expensive. I dont like that so much of the fluff text has gone though. And its a shame about cybork body. but at least it can be taken together with the armour save and not instead of.

I generally like the HQ choices, especially the weirdboy. Zagstrukk has been nerfed too much for my taste though.

I can see the sense behind making shootaboyz more expensive. But they could atleast have given the trukk a 5+ penetration negation roll, as a small sorry for gettin rid of the real ramshackle rule.
I dont like that its more expensive to have large grot units than before. (if I want several squighounds like the old days)

I still like burnaboyz, and like how the tankbustas turned out. Nobz/manz are still cool, even without a dedicated painboss. Kommandos and snikrot are excelent, most had already guessed he wouldnt be able to assault from reserves anyway.

Stormboyz are nice and cheap, I think I will reserve their double run ability for my waagh though.

I love that I already have a bunch of deffkoptas, altough its a shame the bigboom didnt get better/decreased in cost.
Ive already converted some deffkoptas to buggies, and I like em. Although I do think they kinda do the same job as deffkoptas, maybe I should look at someskorchas instead of only rokkit buggies. But I hate they still have the old models.
Cheap warbikes too bad I only have like 3 (and 8 or so of the old 2nd ed)

Mek gunz although I dont like the cash price on the new models, and the old models are, well old.

Deffrolla meh

Deffdread and Killa kans I actually love their new rules. Cowardly grots is a great one and very fluffy, I kinda hope my grot tanks gets something like that too. If only they would have done something more fun/stupid than just being shaken, but oh well. I furthermore like that their CCW have been nerfed, I found it odd that 95% of all dreads had S10 ap2 weapons. With those fluffy nerfs I dont think their point increase is totally valid though. 55pts for a skorcha kan?

Gorka/morkanauts I like them, but i find their lack of options a real shame. and they would have been awesome as assault transports. Lootas made sense to be moved to heavy. Love the flash gitz, especially the models. But I find the 6+ save crazy low, and I hate their lack of gun options (and eavy armour option). With that lousy save, people are gonna run them in opentopped vehicles, where you cant marvel at their fantastic sculpts (well at least not all 10 of them).


I usually shy away from big points games, so the formation isnt that great for me :/


Overall I like the codex , but I had hoped for more new material as well. Many paragraphs have been copypasted and thats a shame. And I think its negative that they wont have rules for models they havent produced yet.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Really the supp isnt just new formations/a unit counts as this slot rather than this slot/new relic items like EVERY other supp does?

Interesting.

He formations are all awesome and worth taking on their own as armies (I desperately want to field both a Green Tode and a Council of Waaagh in the same game). The new relics rework how basic units play (big bosspole giving units of boyz back fearless, among other things).

One complaint - I got the ebook version from iTunes, and it doesn't seem to have the new warlord traits table. Has anyone else encountered this? Am I just not flipping to the right section?

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Really the supp isnt just new formations/a unit counts as this slot rather than this slot/new relic items like EVERY other supp does?

Interesting.

There's nothing where "a unit counts as this slot" in there. Formations, a new detachment organization where everything can Deep Strike(barring flyers).

i was referring to any supplement there not the ghazzy one, i dont have the ghazzy one.



Also the Mob Rule really isnt that bad. I have rolled on that chart many many times and either bypassed the "More than 10" result via bosspole for my MANz, rolled average or below average on the D6 of wounds, or managed to save a couple via t-shirt saves for my boyz.
3 games, lost count how many mob charts ive rolled on, only actually taken 4 wounds. Remember its AFTER a failed morale/pinning check and its D6 HITS not wounds. Thats an average of 3 Hits, which translate to 1-2 wounds. If you have anything besides a t-shirt you'll probably save it, and even a t-shirt can block it sometimes.

Britneyfan12 wrote:

ere we go : cool ability and with the new waagh gives the warboss something else to set him apart from other HQ choices, than just being a tough cc badguy

Mob rule : I really like the idea behind mob rule, I just think its results are a bit too harsh.
wargear, generally its cool. I can see the sense behind making rokkits cheaper and skorchas more expensive. I dont like that so much of the fluff text has gone though. And its a shame about cybork body. but at least it can be taken together with the armour save and not instead of.

I generally like the HQ choices, especially the weirdboy. Zagstrukk has been nerfed too much for my taste though.

I can see the sense behind making shootaboyz more expensive. But they could atleast have given the trukk a 5+ penetration negation roll, as a small sorry for gettin rid of the real ramshackle rule.
I dont like that its more expensive to have large grot units than before. (if I want several squighounds like the old days)

I still like burnaboyz, and like how the tankbustas turned out. Nobz/manz are still cool, even without a dedicated painboss. Kommandos and snikrot are excelent, most had already guessed he wouldnt be able to assault from reserves anyway.

Stormboyz are nice and cheap, I think I will reserve their double run ability for my waagh though.

I love that I already have a bunch of deffkoptas, altough its a shame the bigboom didnt get better/decreased in cost.
Ive already converted some deffkoptas to buggies, and I like em. Although I do think they kinda do the same job as deffkoptas, maybe I should look at someskorchas instead of only rokkit buggies. But I hate they still have the old models.
Cheap warbikes too bad I only have like 3 (and 8 or so of the old 2nd ed)

Mek gunz although I dont like the cash price on the new models, and the old models are, well old.

Deffrolla meh

Deffdread and Killa kans I actually love their new rules. Cowardly grots is a great one and very fluffy, I kinda hope my grot tanks gets something like that too. If only they would have done something more fun/stupid than just being shaken, but oh well. I furthermore like that their CCW have been nerfed, I found it odd that 95% of all dreads had S10 ap2 weapons. With those fluffy nerfs I dont think their point increase is totally valid though. 55pts for a skorcha kan?

Gorka/morkanauts I like them, but i find their lack of options a real shame. and they would have been awesome as assault transports. Lootas made sense to be moved to heavy. Love the flash gitz, especially the models. But I find the 6+ save crazy low, and I hate their lack of gun options (and eavy armour option). With that lousy save, people are gonna run them in opentopped vehicles, where you cant marvel at their fantastic sculpts (well at least not all 10 of them).


I usually shy away from big points games, so the formation isnt that great for me :/


Overall I like the codex , but I had hoped for more new material as well. Many paragraphs have been copypasted and thats a shame. And I think its negative that they wont have rules for models they havent produced yet.

MY EYES!

 Multimoog wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Really the supp isnt just new formations/a unit counts as this slot rather than this slot/new relic items like EVERY other supp does?

Interesting.

He formations are all awesome and worth taking on their own as armies (I desperately want to field both a Green Tode and a Council of Waaagh in the same game). The new relics rework how basic units play (big bosspole giving units of boyz back fearless, among other things).

One complaint - I got the ebook version from iTunes, and it doesn't seem to have the new warlord traits table. Has anyone else encountered this? Am I just not flipping to the right section?

Yeah i got the same problem (no warlord traits). Epub/mobi version. I guess i need to write to them if they haven't realised

 krodarklorr wrote:
like Warmachine, since everyone's going that way anyway.

heh, me too. Though there are still things I love about 40k. I for one, like the new ork book, though I'm glad I still have the old one. I do think it maybe was a little bland as far as storytelling is concerned. It focused a lot more on the history of the orks rather than have interesting stories about individual orks. Sometimes those appeared as footnotes, but there was no story of "Tuska Da Daemon Killa" or of "The War of Dakka" (though there was some mention of it in the Kaptin Badrukk blurbs)

Most of the units, didn't change all that much as far as rules go. As far as rules goes, they're just about the same. I actually like the trukk a lot more now than I did the last time I played it (which was 5th edition) The SAG is EXACTLY the same as it was. Mob rule is brutal, but fluffy, and there are ways to mitigate it (it also means that you're not gonna run away as long as you have boyz to punch.) I love the fact that stikkbombs are now free! The most painful part to me is the massive nerf to Cybork Bodies. Orks now have no invulnerable save in close combat. There are few things that can instakill your warboss, so if you have a painboy with him he's relatively hard to kill, but it still bugs me that orks don't have access to any of the tools to really survive close combat with a 'ard unit like paladins or terminators.

It also slightly bothers me that orks really need all three HQ slots from their specialist FOC. The loss of objective secured, and the fat that your only ally of convenience is Chaos daemons, is a little bit troublesome. What do you get in return? A hammer of wrath that may never go off (since you gotta roll that 10" charge).

Edit: Actually yeah, I'll say it this way. The new ork codex is devoted to supporting ork boyz, which I'm totally fine with. Though this does mean I might need more boyz.

 Vineheart01 wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Really the supp isnt just new formations/a unit counts as this slot rather than this slot/new relic items like EVERY other supp does?

Interesting.

There's nothing where "a unit counts as this slot" in there. Formations, a new detachment organization where everything can Deep Strike(barring flyers).

i was referring to any supplement there not the ghazzy one, i dont have the ghazzy one.



Also the Mob Rule really isnt that bad. I have rolled on that chart many many times and either bypassed the "More than 10" result via bosspole for my MANz, rolled average or below average on the D6 of wounds, or managed to save a couple via t-shirt saves for my boyz.
3 games, lost count how many mob charts ive rolled on, only actually taken 4 wounds. Remember its AFTER a failed morale/pinning check and its D6 HITS not wounds. Thats an average of 3 Hits, which translate to 1-2 wounds. If you have anything besides a t-shirt you'll probably save it, and even a t-shirt can block it sometimes.

I feel you need to reread that rule. The last sentence says if your unit is smaller than ten models it JUST fails the moral/pinning test. But maybe I am miss reading you.

 starbomber109 wrote:
The SAG is EXACTLY the same as it was.

That's not true at all. He doesn't blow up a chunk of a unit on snake eyes and his double six is a Vortex. It's a small buff but it's noticeable.

Theres a third and rather MAJOR change to the SAG.

A roll of 5 + 6 fires at S10 through the peephole of the large blast, just like before, HOWEVER it does not mention he cannot fire the next shooting phase. Last codex it did, and i have no idea how many times i have rolled that and gotten pissed because its nigh impossible to land that shot and i dont even get to attempt one next turn.
Removing the second part of that paragraph made me happy enough. Making boxcars a Str D Vortex Pi Plate and snake eyes only removing him just made my grin goto Peanuts' level of wide lol.

I feel you need to reread that rule. The last sentence says if your unit is smaller than ten models it JUST fails the moral/pinning test. But maybe I am miss reading you.

I think you misunderstood me. By bypassing the more than 10 requirement i meant i used a bosspole to reroll it into the one requiring a character, not simply ignoring the rule entirely. And i know you only take the hits if you meet the requirements to pass the test, but i didnt fail because i had a character in the reroll result.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Theres a third and rather MAJOR change to the SAG.

A roll of 5 + 6 fires at S10 through the peephole of the large blast, just like before, HOWEVER it does not mention he cannot fire the next shooting phase. Last codex it did, and i have no idea how many times i have rolled that and gotten pissed because its nigh impossible to land that shot and i dont even get to attempt one next turn.
Removing the second part of that paragraph made me happy enough. Making boxcars a Str D Vortex Pi Plate and snake eyes only removing him just made my grin goto Peanuts' level of wide lol.

Crap, you're right, I didn't notice that. Plus the ability for a SAG mek to have a gitfinda makes his usual stationary backfield role in my a little bit more reliable. And his 5pt reduction is like making the gitfinda free. Like I said, a bunch of small buffs that make the model much better on the whole.

Had my first 7E Ork battle with the new codex.

18 slugga boyz + Nob + Painboy in Bunker with Escape hatch
10 grots with Runtherder
1 deff dread
5 Lobbas with extra grots

Boyz popped out 12" midfield with escape hatch, moved 6 inches closer, and were closer enough to unleash pistol fire into enemy deployment zome.
Grots loaded into bunker, and followed them next turn
Lobbas, hidden behind bunker spent 6 turns raining shells onto the enemy.

Boyz and grots were blasted and melee'd to down to just the painboy, but shielded the dred getting across the board.
Deff Dred finished off whatever wasn't shelled to death, only taking a single wound the entire game.

After rolling how many hits, rolling to wound, rolling to save, and then rolling feel no pain, the new mob rule caused 2 casualties.

 adamsouza wrote:
Had my first 7E Ork battle with the new codex.

18 slugga boyz + Nob + Painboy in Bunker with Escape hatch
10 grots with Runtherder
1 deff dread
5 Lobbas with extra grots

Boyz popped out 12" midfield with escape hatch, moved 6 inches closer, and were closer enough to unleash pistol fire into enemy deployment zome.
Grots loaded into bunker, and followed them next turn
Lobbas, hidden behind bunker spent 6 turns raining shells onto the enemy.

Boyz and grots were blasted and melee'd to down to just the painboy, but shielded the dred getting across the board.
Deff Dred finished off whatever wasn't shelled to death, only taking a single wound the entire game.

After rolling how many hits, rolling to wound, rolling to save, and then rolling feel no pain, the new mob rule caused 2 casualties.

If a painboy is mandatory to make mob rule less crippling, that's not exactly a step in the right direction.

The new mob rule is a nerf when applied to big mobz, but it's not the orkpocalypse people were crying it was going to be.

Who isn't fielding painboyz these days ? The painboy wasn't there specifically for mob rule, but it helped.

 Orock wrote:

 adamsouza wrote:
Had my first 7E Ork battle with the new codex.

18 slugga boyz + Nob + Painboy in Bunker with Escape hatch
10 grots with Runtherder
1 deff dread
5 Lobbas with extra grots

Boyz popped out 12" midfield with escape hatch, moved 6 inches closer, and were closer enough to unleash pistol fire into enemy deployment zome.
Grots loaded into bunker, and followed them next turn
Lobbas, hidden behind bunker spent 6 turns raining shells onto the enemy.

Boyz and grots were blasted and melee'd to down to just the painboy, but shielded the dred getting across the board.
Deff Dred finished off whatever wasn't shelled to death, only taking a single wound the entire game.

After rolling how many hits, rolling to wound, rolling to save, and then rolling feel no pain, the new mob rule caused 2 casualties.

If a painboy is mandatory to make mob rule less crippling, that's not exactly a step in the right direction.

You're right, without the super required painboy, he would have had 3 casualties instead of 2 :p

 adamsouza wrote:
The new mob rule is a nerf when applied to big mobz, but it's not the orkpocalypse people were crying it was going to be.

Who isn't fielding painboyz these days ? The painboy wasn't there specifically for mob rule, but it helped.

I don't get how people are still crying - it must just be grognards who don't/won't play Orks getting upset for fun. The games people are playing show the benefits. I was playing the same basic unit (Painboss from IA8) for seceral months while we still just had Fearless, and it was doing wonders for my games through 6th.

I was at my LGS yesterday and spent 2 hours excitedly taking with 2 other ork players about the new codex about how we were pumped about trying out new changes, expecially tankbusters, when another player walked over, joined the conversation and was like "I'm selling my orks. I saw the new ork codex and they are unplayable now" The 3 of us looked at him, shook our heads and went back to talking about how we were restructuring our armies and how we were nothing but happy about it.

You should have said "i'll give you something to cry about" and given him an indian burn

Just offered to buy them off him, love people who qq like that...

Another major change to the SAG that I noticed is that when you get the teleport result you no longer count as charging the unit you were shooting, you are just locked in combat. So when before you got that crucial +1S and attack to make your not built for cc unit a slight edge now your unit basically gets suicided against the scary unit you were shooting.

That result was always a death sentence for your big mek, though.

 Multimoog wrote:
That result was always a death sentence for your big mek, though.

I wouldn't say so in all cases. 4 S5 attacks is still enough to lay the hurt on many things, and if you are with a squad of something other than grots their usually 3 S4 attacks each are enough to pound in as well. Dropping down to 3 S4 and 2 S3 respectively is a pretty big nerf.

 adamsouza wrote:
I was at my LGS yesterday and spent 2 hours excitedly taking with 2 other ork players about the new codex about how we were pumped about trying out new changes, expecially tankbusters, when another player walked over, joined the conversation and was like "I'm selling my orks. I saw the new ork codex and they are unplayable now" The 3 of us looked at him, shook our heads and went back to talking about how we were restructuring our armies and how we were nothing but happy about it.

I was upset about many of the changes at first but now I'm starting to focus on the good parts and my horde will march on.
When it comes down to it the only things I don't like are the things that became less 'orky' like ramshackle, boarding planks etc. They are just boring bonuses now when they used to be fun.

Then you have Mob Rule. The extra wounds is not a problem. I just want to know who thought it was a good idea for me to make up to 7 dice rolls for 1 moral check. Seriously !?!?!

Anvildude wrote:
Basically, the Ork's version of "Objective Secured" is "There's no more enemies alive to claim that objective".

Except that this doesn't work in Maelstrom of War missions. By the time you've wiped them off the objective, they already claimed it in their turn and got the points for it.

It's good to hear people talk positivly about Orks, I played against the new dex recently (and yes, I whopped his ass, almost tabled him...) so he kinda was allowed to be annoyed, but I also noted that he didn't lose because his dex is now 'bad', he lost because he fielded a complete slow army because he was so used to the way the old dex worked he refused to even slightly try to grasp his new dex.

Also I'm a Necron player, so I kinda had to endure the whole, 'my new codex makes me buy new models' thing, sincerely, I'm still having a 115€ unit lying about (pariahs) not being used so I was REALLY annoyed to have some Ork player complain because he had to buy new models to make his codex work a bit more again and that it came too late (remember that moment when the new Necron Codex was finally there and altough it was kinda 6th-ish aimed it still was kinda not?) yeah, luckily I'm a guy who just let that all go past him, but I find serious relief to see that people actually regard it as good! Thx dakkadakka!

Played against an ork guy at a 2k game just recently.

Now bear in mind, this is a guy I personally got into the game and I have never lost to him a single time.

He ran some lootaz, a trukk of tankbustas, two 20 boy mobs on foot, a trukk of boys with a nob, and his typical warlord unit, a warboss with nobs and a painboy in a wagon.

I ran a BA jumppack spam list with a couple priests, with one drop pod of boltgun death company to mow down some boys from behind.

Previously, I've always counted on sweeping advances and consolidate-away on my assaults to out-assault the orks.

So I manage to explode the wagon with a melta, and charge with 20 asm and 2 priests. I take out the big choppas in front and start cutting into powerklaw nobs. He swings back and kills 6 marines, but still lost the combat by 7 iirc. Obviously fails the ld test, and then I discover that HALF of the mob rule results will keep him from getting his warlord, painboy, and several pk nobs swept. He rolls breaking heads, and the 2 s4 hits do nothing. His turn, some boys make it into the combat and both squads of marines get wiped.

Lost like 600 points and only managed to knock out 6 nobs and a few boys.

Knocked me too far down to climb back up. I conceded after t3 when I had one asm squad left. Mob rule kept stopping his boys from running, and if I can't get some of them to run, I can't compete with their numbers.

Read codex and no real complaints except one: looted vehicles, why they no get any?

They were like an on going joke, why stop now?

All those great conversions wasted.

The jumping around issue is valid, get epub, copy / paste gear / rule point cost data with appendix data to make cheat sheet (did this in excel). Can see this as the #1 rule for reference document writing: never write anything more than once.

 Multimoog wrote:
You should have said "i'll give you something to cry about" and given him an indian burn

That's racist. He could have given me a Catachan burn.

 Talizvar wrote:
Read codex and no real complaints except one: looted vehicles, why they no get any?

They were like an on going joke, why stop now?

All those great conversions wasted.

The jumping around issue is valid, get epub, copy / paste gear / rule point cost data with appendix data to make cheat sheet (did this in excel). Can see this as the #1 rule for reference document writing: never write anything more than once.

They still get them. White Dwarf Weekly has rules for "Looted Wagons".

It also just says to run them as Battlewagons.

niv-mizzet wrote:
Played against an ork guy at a 2k game just recently.

Now bear in mind, this is a guy I personally got into the game and I have never lost to him a single time.

He ran some lootaz, a trukk of tankbustas, two 20 boy mobs on foot, a trukk of boys with a nob, and his typical warlord unit, a warboss with nobs and a painboy in a wagon.

I ran a BA jumppack spam list with a couple priests, with one drop pod of boltgun death company to mow down some boys from behind.

Previously, I've always counted on sweeping advances and consolidate-away on my assaults to out-assault the orks.

So I manage to explode the wagon with a melta, and charge with 20 asm and 2 priests. I take out the big choppas in front and start cutting into powerklaw nobs. He swings back and kills 6 marines, but still lost the combat by 7 iirc. Obviously fails the ld test, and then I discover that HALF of the mob rule results will keep him from getting his warlord, painboy, and several pk nobs swept. He rolls breaking heads, and the 2 s4 hits do nothing. His turn, some boys make it into the combat and both squads of marines get wiped.

Lost like 600 points and only managed to knock out 6 nobs and a few boys.

Knocked me too far down to climb back up. I conceded after t3 when I had one asm squad left. Mob rule kept stopping his boys from running, and if I can't get some of them to run, I can't compete with their numbers.

I also forgot to mention 'ere we go is freaking amazing. Orks are now virtually immune to "lol they tripped" charges.

 Boggy Man wrote:

 Multimoog wrote:
You should have said "i'll give you something to cry about" and given him an indian burn

That's racist. He could have given me a Catachan burn.

Well I was going to suggest a punch in the stomach, but then I thought "that's a bit harsh, he's already crying over the Ork codex".

Oh no trust me the arent immune to it. I failed a 6" charge because i rolled snakes and rerolled into a 3. 'ere we go is not fleet, so its not foolproof. Only reason its better than fleet is because Bikers can benefit from it, since they are forbidden from fleet.

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Kult-of-Speed

If your Kult of Speed includes a Stompa, you are officially Doin It Rong.

 Bludbaff wrote:
http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Kult-of-Speed

If your Kult of Speed includes a Stompa, you are officially Doin It Rong.

I dunno. You need some heavy firepower that can't be taken out as easily as infantry, and those battlewagons don't stick around forever.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Oh no trust me the arent immune to it. I failed a 6" charge because i rolled snakes and rerolled into a 3. 'ere we go is not fleet, so its not foolproof. Only reason its better than fleet is because Bikers can benefit from it, since they are forbidden from fleet.

Oh I know it's not a 100% deal. About nothing in 40k is. I said "virtually" immune.
This being 40k, there are still going to be times where the dice gods tell you "no" no matter what the odds say.
Just the other day I blew up a jinking dark eldar raider with a single krak grenade toss in a kill teams game, and took most of his team with it. That was something like a 2% chance. I also had a Dante + meltas preiscienced deep strike in and fail to hurt an ork trukk in the open at all.

But I would say if you're running orks, you should consider a 5 inch or less charge to be "no fail unless act of god."
Most other armies can only say that about 3" charges.

That and they painted it red, thus it's faster then the normal Stompa.

Actually knowing Orks, I suspect there's a variant of Stompa where instead of legs, there's Treads and a bigger engine that makes it quite speedy.

 Multimoog wrote:

 Bludbaff wrote:
http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Kult-of-Speed

If your Kult of Speed includes a Stompa, you are officially Doin It Rong.

I dunno. You need some heavy firepower that can't be taken out as easily as infantry, and those battlewagons don't stick around forever.

Battlewagons aren't really fast enough for a proppa Kult of Speed either. It should be trukks, buggies, bikes, and airpower.

Except that the fluff explicitly names battlewagons as one of the major parts of any self-respecting Kult of Speed mob.

 herpguy wrote:

 Multimoog wrote:
That result was always a death sentence for your big mek, though.

I wouldn't say so in all cases. 4 S5 attacks is still enough to lay the hurt on many things, and if you are with a squad of something other than grots their usually 3 S4 attacks each are enough to pound in as well. Dropping down to 3 S4 and 2 S3 respectively is a pretty big nerf.

The has always only shot himself into combat, not his unit. No matter how well you equip him, it's a single nob profile against a unit that you wanted to shoot with an AP2 large blast. I've never, ever seen a mek survive that.

 Jidmah wrote:


The has always only shot himself into combat, not his unit. No matter how well you equip him, it's a single nob profile against a unit that you wanted to shoot with an AP2 large blast. I've never, ever seen a mek survive that.

Exactly. If the Mek took his unit with him, that would almost be preferable. Deepstriking Lootas? YES PLZ

Bludbaff wrote:http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Kult-of-Speed

If your Kult of Speed includes a Stompa, you are officially Doin It Rong.

Thats the dumbest Kult of Speed ive ever seen.

Almost no bikes.
Battlewagons? For what? Kult of speed is about DA BIKES!
Lootas dont fit this either. Needs a third jet.
Stompa moves 12" so its technically "fast" but its also out of place by a long shot.

 Multimoog wrote:

 Boggy Man wrote:

 Multimoog wrote:
You should have said "i'll give you something to cry about" and given him an indian burn

That's racist. He could have given me a Catachan burn.

Well I was going to suggest a punch in the stomach, but then I thought "that's a bit harsh, he's already crying over the Ork codex".

That's Adam's account; I remember it differently. In my version I was "reverse laughing". Then Al Queda broke in and I saved everyone by beating them to death with my dice bag.

Of course I may be misremembering or maybe I just came off as whiny. I was tired from making love to Natalie Portman all night and riding back to New Bedford on my pet velociraptor.

 Boggy Man wrote:

That's Adam's account; I remember it differently.

In my version I was "reverse laughing". Then Al Queda broke in and I saved everyone by beating them to death with my dice bag.

Of course I may be misremembering or maybe I just came off as whiny. I was tired from making love to Natalie Portman all night and riding back to New Bedford on my pet velociraptor.

Bones, is that you ?

 adamsouza wrote:

 Boggy Man wrote:

That's Adam's account; I remember it differently.

In my version I was "reverse laughing". Then Al Queda broke in and I saved everyone by beating them to death with my dice bag.

Of course I may be misremembering or maybe I just came off as whiny. I was tired from making love to Natalie Portman all night and riding back to New Bedford on my pet velociraptor.

Bones, is that you ?

But of course! Who else mixes this much joie de vivre and sporadic rage? (Well, maybe Deadpool or Brian Blessed.)

Don't mind me BTW; right now it's more about tight money/time than disappointment with the game. I'll probably be playing some scratchbuilt orks again in a few months.

As someone who didn't really have much of a problem with the old codex past it looking old and all these other armies with their full colour, hard cover, sexy new books. I am pretty sad with this codex from the changes, like most of this thread apparently. There are things I'm excited about in here and I don't have a problem with the new mob rule. But the main thing I have beef with I think is the lack of a way to get an Invulnerable save in close combat? What use is Ghazzy when I a) can't take him as my HQ choice and b) can't really put him into close combat without being ripped apart by a basic power weapon?

I can't give mega nobz a save either, so I have to try and dakka that squad of Grey Knights to death before they can get into CC with me. Looks like I just need to field as many Boyz as I can, the most tedious game of moving 3 max squads of Boyz...

Just let me know if I'm confused on this issue because I would like to think that I am.

There are just a couple other little things I'm scratching my head about like the changes to Zagstruk, etc.

But most of the codex is pretty alright, I'll just keep playing my Grey Knights for a bit.

Hold on- Just thought of something.

The KFF is an Invulnerable save now, right? 5++? And it's any model within 6 inches (friendly, I'm assuming).

So... All orks are capable of getting a 5+ invuln with use of the 'free' mekboys you can get, right?

Wait. it's shooting attacks. What?

Maybe you should get the codex first? None of that remotely works.

Got it. That's why I rescinded my idea. Just misread it.

It's a 5++ against shooting.
You would need a Big Mek, which means less Weirdboyz and less Warbosses.
I'd prefer a cheap Painboy in that blob to give them all FNP, because that works in combat too.

Vaercathor wrote:
Nobs in shoota boyz squad cannot have sluggas.

Neither can Sargents in Guard squads where an extra lasgun is much better then one more attack in close combat.

The difference there is that Guardsmen never want to charge. In a Guard squad the extra ranged attacks are always more useful to you. Also, the Guard sergeant has the same statline as his men, where the Nob has +1 S and +1 I compared to his boyz, so even if you want the unit to be shootier overall you could still value the Nob's CC high enough to want an extra melee attack.. I don't think it's a huge issue, but it is something you could theoretically want.

 Bludbaff wrote:
The difference there is that Guardsmen never want to charge. In a Guard squad the extra ranged attacks are always more useful to you. Also, the Guard sergeant has the same statline as his men, where the Nob has +1 S and +1 I compared to his boyz, so even if you want the unit to be shootier overall you could still value the Nob's CC high enough to want an extra melee attack.. I don't think it's a huge issue, but it is something you could theoretically want.

opps there goes my brain derping with the names of xenos weapons. Totally though the shoota was the pistol and slugga the assault gun.

....how many people contributing to this thread have the codex/play orks...?

I have the new Codex and managed two games with Orks using 7E and the new Codex.

 adamsouza wrote:
I have the new Codex and managed two games with Orks using 7E and the new Codex.

And....?

Kangodo wrote:
It's a 5++ against shooting.
You would need a Big Mek, which means less Weirdboyz and less Warbosses.
I'd prefer a cheap Painboy in that blob to give them all FNP, because that works in combat too.

Thats the reason I bought a Morkanaught. I haven't had time to really test it out, but in theory it should work wonders. A fat 6 inch 5++ bubble to cover more units, and to provide a large amount of fire power in addition. Fill it with min squad of Burna Boyz and upgrade some to Meks.

Then I can use my HQ slots for Painboyz and whatever third HQ I want/need, like Weirdboyz or Warboss. It's costly of course, but it should do one of two things. 1.) Attract a lot of gunfire off everything else 2.) Provide its full supporting role by keeping my units alive, while crippling enemies with several S8 shots, and a few low powered shots to hopefully pepper infantry if your opponent decides to ignore it (Which they shouldn't)

 Overlord Thraka wrote:

 adamsouza wrote:
I have the new Codex and managed two games with Orks using 7E and the new Codex.

And....?

Do you even realise the irony in your post, that contributes nothing to the thread, attempting to insinuate my post contributes nothing to the thread, while entirely missing the point that my post was a reply answering a question in the post above it

Ork player, with access to a Codex. Played since the very end of 4th Ed.

Ironically, I was apparently less mistaken on my ideas about it before I had access.

My biggest problem with the new Ork codex? Not enough Orks. Or Green. And the Red needs to go fasta. ;>>

I haven't read anything about Ork codex's...<<;

The first one for the biggest model... The Stompa has no flavor... Seriously lavka anything resembling orkiness. No belly gun option, no eye of mork (or gork), no lifts droppa, no flame Belcher.... Just woo templates. I wanted a bad moonz Stompa with more guns glues on than any model should ia8 and kustom stompas are I suppose dead?

Mork and gorkanaut. Cute but terrible, making them assault vehicles would have made them better but still slow. At least then walk 6, model gets out 6 waaaggghhh run then assault but nope.

Deffrolla got slapped with the Nerf bat wayyyyy to hard.

Battlewagon's despite being made of tissue paper went up in points.

Ramshackle got much worse making trunks less fun.

Cybork bodies went from 5++ to 6+ fnp for the same price.... Wtd gw seriously that is the most pants on head slowed change to anything in a codex in a few editions. Cybork was established for the IOM players imagine iron halo becoming 5+ fnp or a storm shield becoming 4+ fnp on termites maybe good but not why you take it. Even then they took it away from nobz who usually took it

Painboy moved from nobz to independent character which is a kick in the teeth. Could have at least used a stat upgrade or 4+fnp like the old days given the cybok Nerf.

Waaagggh got better and worse. You get better assaults but took away fearless, a good trade

Mob rule became yet another table to kill your boyz I guess fearless is to good and 30 boyz are afraid to lose a few ladz now... Very unorky.

Ghaz moved to lord of war and one of the o ly inv saves out there now for orks and it is only on the waaaagggghh so he may have eternal warrior lesser characters are going to punch him out for his lunch money a squad of assault termites will even kick his teef in

Flashgitz are to unreliable should be d3 ap d6 means they cannot reliably do what you would want them to do.

Lootas got cheaper and moved to heavy support which makes sense lootaz got better.

Kills kanz and deffdreds are going to collect a lot of dust

Mek guns are awesome but pricey model wise. Game wise they are great I plan to scratch build more. Maybe kitbash with big gunz from my useless battlewagon's.

Warbugges got a few points cheaper and rokkits are free.. I loves em before will keep taking them now.

Warbikers are cheaper though not able to be troops anymore. They are very worth the points you will see a lot of them and a lot less nob bikers

The planes still die to bolter fire. I have 2 that last edition stayed home these will also stay home. The dakka jet I guess needed a Nerf to be even more useless

Deffkoptas are still great esp attached to a warboss on a bike as a single. Fast and free to rokkits. Love em.

Stormboys are reasonable coated not amazing but not bad. They are super fast with the 2d6 run and can waaaaggh for a possible 36 inch charge if the dice gods love you.

Trucks are still made of wet tissue paper and tau can explode them with there basic troop gun

Kommandoes and snikrot are decent. Snikrot took a bit of a hit but gained shred

Meganobz... Gw really wanted to sell the new kit, they rock seriously they are the bees knees 2+ armor and 2 wounds at 40 points each... Yes please. Bad news here is that lascannons install gib em and so does any str8 ap2 or better gun. Really would be awesome if they could buy old cybork body but what can ya do.

Nobz are still nobz good and great equipment. Lack of painbody I unless an HQ taken and no cybody makes them weak... You will not see a lot of nob bikers, points wise you can buy 2 biker boyz for the cost and have points to spare.

Tank bustas will be seeing play they get you can extra VP if first blood is a tank by them expect them in battlewagon lists with a kff big mek on a bike keeping the battlewagon's safe.

Burnabiys... In a wagon are still going to be one of the funniest things in the game. For the comical amount of hits from a open topped vehicle.

Gretchin got 5 points cheaper ... So they have that going for them still terrible but for the points and objective secured fill up all unused troop choices with them seriously 9 groups of gretchin is actually not a bad idea the runtherd can now turn his voltage to 11 and hit at 1 attack str 8 possibly killing a character which is neat as he is a character so in a fight with a space marine captain you got first and might instant death him which is hilarious.

Boyz is boyz. Hard boys are still not worth the points outside battlewagon rush and even then it it debatable. Still one of the best points to model stats in the game.

Boss zag lost assault out of deep strike and his initiative claw (and his claw in general wtf gw) one str 8 ap2 hammer of wrath is all he brings to the table. I love the model but he will be just counts as a nob with pk

Kaptain badrukk is a wildcard. I like him but need to see him on the table I think he is overcosted with only 2 wounds especially wince he is basically supposed to be a warboss in his own right.

Mad dog if cool attach to 30 boyz and rock and roll.

Painbody can be attacked to boyz squads now making them as as nails. I would expect them with hard boyz in battlewagon rush lists.

Big mek... Will be taken for off again and fun players will keep using the sag which is actually good for the points. Mega armor big mek can take sag and kff which is cool

Meks are free of an HQ slot up to 3 and will be taken with big meks and loota groups in stopas making insanely powerful self healing machines

Weird boys .. Well these guys got a big buff. Still a fluffy fun option but can kick ass too so will find thier way into comoetative lists.

Warboss.. On a bike is a toughness 6 beast as always. The kustom blitzbike for a 18" turbo boostand great gun which costs less than a bike in old codex is great. Needed to call a waaaagggghhhh. Expect these to be in every orks list outside crazy Stompa repair lists.

New objectives for 11-16 are bad... Like very bad and not your control hopefully they become options.

Mek guns are still not Melta which is sad also one shot so nobody will buy them as you miss 2/3 shots and they cost extra

Attack squig is no longer an extra attack just a reroll... Prefer the attack but not bad.

Bomb squigs are now ap4 seemingly so space marine players can laugh them off and no other reason ... It is a str 8 ap3 rokkits tied to a pig how is that not ap3 still I guess because bacon.

Giffindaz are interesting for bikes with relentless

The ram now is plus 2 av in a ram av16 front be for ramming purposes is cool I guess

Red paint is 1 inch during flat out which blows

Grabbing claw will not work on wave serpents so nerfed and one of the best used for it previously

Front riggers give it will not die which is awesome

Wrecking ball is cool I will be using this a lot

All the gifts of mork and fork are great and orky expect to see these on has a lot

That's my first impressions anyway

 G00fySmiley wrote:
Painboy moved from nobz to independent character which is a kick in the teeth. Could have at least used a stat upgrade or 4+fnp like the old days given the cybok Nerf.

If you think going from only two units in the codex being able to get FNP to every unit being able to get it is a kick in the teeth, I can only surmise that you really enjoy getting kicked in the teeth.

 Bludbaff wrote:

 G00fySmiley wrote:
Painboy moved from nobz to independent character which is a kick in the teeth. Could have at least used a stat upgrade or 4+fnp like the old days given the cybok Nerf.

If you think going from only two units in the codex being able to get FNP to every unit being able to get it is a kick in the teeth, I can only surmise that you really enjoy getting kicked in the teeth.

Kick in the reef to nobz not the painboyz. Painboys themselves are great now attached to 30 man boyz squads or as stated with 18 boyz a nob with pk inside a battlewagon

Also wish listing maybe but I would have liked to see them like sanguinary priests where they can be taken as groups and assigned taking up an HQ is a bit much but worth it in some lists I am sure

So I have played a total of 5 games and talked to a lot of people about my new orks ...

From my opinion the codex took out all of the fun awesome ork reasons that I played orks! They made them into a vanilla army, and now they match everyeone else.

I am struggling even more with the change to night fighting, to the point where if I go second, I am basically screwed the whole game, because 3/4ths of my trukks have either been wrecked or exploded and killed most of my boyz, those that didn't die ran off the board shortly after. Maybe a big mek would assist me there? But it just seems like no matter what now I am a little bit screwed with the lack of ways to deal with anything any of the other armies have.

 G00fySmiley wrote:
The first one for the biggest model... The Stompa has no flavor... Seriously lavka anything resembling orkiness. No belly gun option, no eye of mork (or gork), no lifts droppa, no flame Belcher.... Just woo templates. I wanted a bad moonz Stompa with more guns glues on than any model should ia8 and kustom stompas are I suppose dead?

Not dead, just outdated. Keep in mind that most weapons on the stompa have gotten small buffs, so it's a lot better than the stompa from 5th edition you have in mind. There also is a "Big Mek Stompa" available from the apoc book which might fit your idea of a Bad Moonz stompa, it can be armed with both a belly and arm-mounted deff kannon and brings a gaze of mork and lifta-droppa along.

Painboy moved from nobz to independent character which is a kick in the teeth. Could have at least used a stat upgrade or 4+fnp like the old days given the cybok Nerf.

The got cheaper, but are otherwise just as bad a unit as before. Being able to put a pain boy with warbikers, boyz and all our fragile elite choices is a great trade for having to use a HQ slot for that one unit now.

Waaagggh got better and worse. You get better assaults but took away fearless, a good trade

Waaagh! never gave fearless without Thrakka. Now you can still give fearless if you have the right warlord trait, which Thrakka always has. The only (minor) nerf for the Waaagh! is requiring a warboss now.

Ghaz moved to lord of war and one of the o ly inv saves out there now for orks and it is only on the waaaagggghh so he may have eternal warrior lesser characters are going to punch him out for his lunch money a squad of assault termites will even kick his teef in

A squad of assault terminators kicked in his teef before, nothing new here.

Flashgitz are to unreliable should be d3 ap d6 means they cannot reliably do what you would want them to do.

What do you want them to do? If you roll above 3 they still shot a squad of tactical marines of the board due to metric ton of shots, as well as anything with armor worse than that. They obviously aren't meant for killing terminators, and we've got better tools to do that job.

Kommandoes and snikrot are decent. Snikrot took a bit of a hit but gained shred

His knives always had that rule. He gained shroud on the turn he arrives though.

Boss zag lost assault out of deep strike and his initiative claw (and his claw in general wtf gw) one str 8 ap2 hammer of wrath is all he brings to the table. I love the model but he will be just counts as a nob with pk

He never had a klaw unless charging, and that HoW thing is a guaranteed hit at I10, unlike his previous 3 attacks. So you've got a good chance to instant-kill a character in a challenge before he can even strike, not matter how fast he is. He's also a HQ for 65 points, so a great choice for small games.

Big mek... Will be taken for off again and fun players will keep using the sag which is actually good for the points. Mega armor big mek can take sag and kff which is cool

MA mek can't take a SAG. He gets a tellyporta blasta instead which instant-deaths stuff on a roll of 6.

Weird boys .. Well these guys got a big buff. Still a fluffy fun option but can kick ass too so will find thier way into comoetative lists.

Doubt that, but he does at least pull his own weight now. He is in similar position as the SAG, good option, but there are some way better ones, especially pain boyz.

New objectives for 11-16 are bad... Like very bad and not your control hopefully they become options.

How are easily archived missions worse than being forced to grab an objective that might be stuck on the other side of the table?

Mek guns are still not Melta which is sad also one shot so nobody will buy them as you miss 2/3 shots and they cost extra

They are the same cost as rokkits everywhere, so you don't exactly play extra.

Giffindaz are interesting for bikes with relentless

Doesn't work. See relentless rules in the BRB, it's only relevant to SAG meks on bikes or in units with a MA model.

 Nafarious wrote:
So I have played a total of 5 games and talked to a lot of people about my new orks ...

From my opinion the codex took out all of the fun awesome ork reasons that I played orks! They made them into a vanilla army, and now they match everyeone else.

I am struggling even more with the change to night fighting, to the point where if I go second, I am basically screwed the whole game, because 3/4ths of my trukks have either been wrecked or exploded and killed most of my boyz, those that didn't die ran off the board shortly after. Maybe a big mek would assist me there? But it just seems like no matter what now I am a little bit screwed with the lack of ways to deal with anything any of the other armies have.

Meks wouldn't help as KFF only works on the trukk he is in. Basically your goal is to design a list where Mob rule has as least amount of impact on the game as possible.

My advice:
Stop taking trukk boyz, they are so easily dealt with. Either go 'eavy armour to make them last longer or go with painboyz if you still want to use them.

Grotsnik is auto take as he makes a unit he is in fearless, and gives FNP, he is a beefy combat character and gives rampage (which turns mega nobz into monsters in combat with upwards of 8 attacks each)

Grotz don't have mob rule, 35pts spammable units

Your troops are terrible now, go with the horde detachment, you lose objective secured but gain more HQs to buff the killy units.

Try buggies, 125pts for 5 twin linked rokkits seems like good anti air, anti tank and anti marine.

 Nafarious wrote:

From my opinion the codex took out all of the fun awesome ork reasons that I played orks!

What fun awesome ork reasons were removed ?

They made them into a vanilla army, and now they match everyeone else.

Everyone else has a rule where the mobs fight amongst themselves instead of breaking ?
Everyone else has panicing mini dreadnaughts ?
Everyone else has a mob full of guys with roikkit launchas, melta bombs, and pets that explode?
Everyone else has ministompas with force fields ?

What Magical version of the Orks codex were you playing with ?

Anvildude wrote:
Hold on- Just thought of something.

The KFF is an Invulnerable save now, right? 5++? And it's any model within 6 inches (friendly, I'm assuming).

So... All orks are capable of getting a 5+ invuln with use of the 'free' mekboys you can get, right?

Wait. it's shooting attacks. What?

Yeah, it's sadly only "models" and it's against shooting attacks, to my knowledge.

 adamsouza wrote:

 Nafarious wrote:

From my opinion the codex took out all of the fun awesome ork reasons that I played orks!

What fun awesome ork reasons were removed ?

They made them into a vanilla army, and now they match everyeone else.

Everyone else has a rule where the mobs fight amongst themselves instead of breaking ?
Everyone else has panicing mini dreadnaughts ?
Everyone else has a mob full of guys with roikkit launchas, melta bombs, and pets that explode?
Everyone else has ministompas with force fields ?

What Magical version of the Orks codex were you playing with ?

I think what he was saying is that they changed up the flavour, got rid of the models they weren't going to make into real models, made a couple other rules more straight forward and I guess that's vanilla (which isn't always a bad thing) like Tankbustas and "Glory Hog" or "Ram Shakle" or "Kareen" or "Don't Press Dat" the lack of looted wagons is kind of lame too, just like not getting Ghazzy as my hq choice. Oh and no CC invulns for the entire army lol.

These are just some of the flavours that we grew accustomed to and now they are gone or changed so it just feels like making things kustom in the stats just aren't what they used to be.

My gaming group is disappointed in the Ork codex but the actual Ork players in the group think it is pretty nifty. It is strange... Non Ork players think the Orks got robbed and the Ork players are just happy to have new rules.

I can't wait to see what comes out of the codex after a few months playing with it. I would love to see more Kan armies.

Sadly Kans are probably one of the rarer units to see now, even less than dredds lol.

Im fielding them (well, unless they do absolutely horrendous) in a walker list i threw together at 2000pts purely because i already have the damn things might as well give it a shot.

They got hit pretty hard with the nerfbat for some dumb reason. Outside grotzooka spam, they were pretty useless before.
They were:
35pts each, unit of 3 max
Able to take bigshootas or skorchas for 5pts
Able to take Rokkits for 15pts
Able to take Grotzookas for 10pts
Able to take KMB for 20pts.
S10 AP2 in assault, 2 attacks
45pts for the only Kan that actually worked, 135pts for the unit.

Now theyre 50pts base, max of 6, come with free rokkits or bigshootas. Ignoring other upgrades, Grotzookas add 5pts.
55pts each, 330pts for a full squad. 60 points more expensive, if that was the only nerf they got i wouldnt care since 6man groups is awesome. But theyre S7 AP2 now and have a pseudo leadership check.

Armor saturation is the ONLY reason i think they'll even move before dying. And at that cost, thats quite a risk.

When you put it that way...

Wow.

I am sad.

Could also be local meta thing but the general idea people usually bring counters the gak out of kans too.

Take my tau for instance. I normally play 2k or bigger games, and i always have 1 riptide with IA, 3 Missilesides with 6 missile drones, 3 crisis suits with missilepods targetlocks and 6 marker drones, and a tanky buffmander to go with the crisis suits for BS5 markerlights and two nasty missile units rather than one. Damn near always have a skyray too.
I would MELT a walker list unless it was a trio of gorkanauts, since i can only glance them and odds are i MIGHT glance one to death given the repairs shenanigans you can do with'm. But i can kite the gak out of them, so its just a longer fight. Nobody is ever going to field 3 gorkanauts though lol.
And thats just my usual list i usually field, with some slight tweaks here and there i always bring that. I have never faced Tau with my orks but even in the new dex i compare my armies and i still go "orks be boned..." - loss of the invul being the biggest culprit here.

Yea, the little "for fun" walker list I would bring on occasion went from merely bad, to ludicrously awful. Having to cut ~150 points out of a underpowered 1250 list on top of nerfs is bizarre to say the least.

It's also no longer technically legal without being unbound.

 dup3 wrote:
just like not getting Ghazzy as my hq choice. Oh and no CC invulns for the entire army lol.

LoW are in standard FoC. If you like Ghaz, it's better than he is a LoW. That way you can still take 2 big meks/painboys.

Badrukk has a 5++ invulnerable save.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Could also be local meta thing but the general idea people usually bring counters the gak out of kans too.

Take my tau for instance. I normally play 2k or bigger games, and i always have 1 riptide with IA, 3 Missilesides with 6 missile drones, 3 crisis suits with missilepods targetlocks and 6 marker drones, and a tanky buffmander to go with the crisis suits for BS5 markerlights and two nasty missile units rather than one. Damn near always have a skyray too.
I would MELT a walker list unless it was a trio of gorkanauts, since i can only glance them and odds are i MIGHT glance one to death given the repairs shenanigans you can do with'm. But i can kite the gak out of them, so its just a longer fight. Nobody is ever going to field 3 gorkanauts though lol.
And thats just my usual list i usually field, with some slight tweaks here and there i always bring that. I have never faced Tau with my orks but even in the new dex i compare my armies and i still go "orks be boned..." - loss of the invul being the biggest culprit here.

As long as we're theoryhammering: a walker list might not fare so well, but ork horde lists just got a big buff against Tau with 5+/5++ for 30+ boy mobs, and'Ere We Go + New Waaagh means you can't kite like you used to. My lists see my boy mobs being backed up with a Skyshield (4++) full of big gunz and lootas, Then you have Flash Gits stationed midfield and units of MANz shooting up in Trukks... lots of shooting and durable CC you have to deal with coming from every angle on the board. Painboy/KFF synergy alone now means you won't be able to count on templates taking out very many troops per turn unless you're focusing all your firepower on a unit or two.

Orks have so much ++ versus shooting available now that any unit getting within 12" of a Tau unit has a REALLY good chance of cutting it down in CC. AND that's not taking into consideration tactics like fielding one (or more!) Green Tide mobs of 100-300 boyz made fearless with a Big Bosspole while still benefitting from KFF and Painboyz. Tau shooting simply doesn't particularly scare us any more.

 Multimoog wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Could also be local meta thing but the general idea people usually bring counters the gak out of kans too.

Take my tau for instance. I normally play 2k or bigger games, and i always have 1 riptide with IA, 3 Missilesides with 6 missile drones, 3 crisis suits with missilepods targetlocks and 6 marker drones, and a tanky buffmander to go with the crisis suits for BS5 markerlights and two nasty missile units rather than one. Damn near always have a skyray too.
I would MELT a walker list unless it was a trio of gorkanauts, since i can only glance them and odds are i MIGHT glance one to death given the repairs shenanigans you can do with'm. But i can kite the gak out of them, so its just a longer fight. Nobody is ever going to field 3 gorkanauts though lol.
And thats just my usual list i usually field, with some slight tweaks here and there i always bring that. I have never faced Tau with my orks but even in the new dex i compare my armies and i still go "orks be boned..." - loss of the invul being the biggest culprit here.

As long as we're theoryhammering: a walker list might not fare so well, but ork horde lists just got a big buff against Tau with 5+/5++ for 30+ boy mobs, and'Ere We Go + New Waaagh means you can't kite like you used to. My lists see my boy mobs being backed up with a Skyshield (4++) full of big gunz and lootas, Then you have Flash Gits stationed midfield and units of MANz shooting up in Trukks... lots of shooting and durable CC you have to deal with coming from every angle on the board. Painboy/KFF synergy alone now means you won't be able to count on templates taking out very many troops per turn unless you're focusing all your firepower on a unit or two.

Orks have so much ++ versus shooting available now that any unit getting within 12" of a Tau unit has a REALLY good chance of cutting it down in CC. AND that's not taking into consideration tactics like fielding one (or more!) Green Tide mobs of 100-300 boyz made fearless with a Big Bosspole while still benefitting from KFF and Painboyz. Tau shooting simply doesn't particularly scare us any more.

Except Big Bosspole is 1 per army :( Otherwise, it would be awesomesauce to run 2 huge green tide blobs!

Keep room in your points for Grotsnik in the other blob! That takes care of FnP as well

This list could be really hard-countered with a lot of AV14 but it would rip up most everything else:

Mad Dok Grotsnik 160
Warboss: Big Bosspole 80
Warboss 60
Painboy 50
Big Mek: kustom force field 85
Big Mek: kustom force field 85

25 Boyz 150
25 Boyz 150
25 Boyz 150
25 Boyz 150
25 Boyz 150
25 Boyz 150
25 Boyz 150
25 Boyz 150
10 Gretchin: + 1 Runtherd 35
10 Gretchin: + 1 Runtherd 35
10 Gretchin: + 1 Runtherd 35
10 Gretchin: + 1 Runtherd 35

5 Mek Gunz: kustom mega-kannon; 2× smasha gun; traktor kannon; + 10× Gretchin 138

1,998 points


Automatically Appended Next Post:
What's nice is that it's still a battleforged army, so you can just have all those grots backfield securing your own objectives while the two giant blobs scour the enemy off theirs. You just... have to have 240+ miniatures on hand... uh, heh...

 adamsouza wrote:

 Overlord Thraka wrote:

 adamsouza wrote:
I have the new Codex and managed two games with Orks using 7E and the new Codex.

And....?

Do you even realise the irony in your post, that contributes nothing to the thread, attempting to insinuate my post contributes nothing to the thread, while entirely missing the point that my post was a reply answering a question in the post above it

Well you just kinda left if hanging.

And I've already made my point in this thread. I think it's "okay". Not great, not terribad, but "Okay"

 Jidmah wrote:

 G00fySmiley wrote:
The first one for the biggest model... The Stompa has no flavor... Seriously lavka anything resembling orkiness. No belly gun option, no eye of mork (or gork), no lifts droppa, no flame Belcher.... Just woo templates. I wanted a bad moonz Stompa with more guns glues on than any model should ia8 and kustom stompas are I suppose dead?

Not dead, just outdated. Keep in mind that most weapons on the stompa have gotten small buffs, so it's a lot better than the stompa from 5th edition you have in mind. There also is a "Big Mek Stompa" available from the apoc book which might fit your idea of a Bad Moonz stompa, it can be armed with both a belly and arm-mounted deff kannon and brings a gaze of mork and lifta-droppa along.

Painboy moved from nobz to independent character which is a kick in the teeth. Could have at least used a stat upgrade or 4+fnp like the old days given the cybok Nerf.

The got cheaper, but are otherwise just as bad a unit as before. Being able to put a pain boy with warbikers, boyz and all our fragile elite choices is a great trade for having to use a HQ slot for that one unit now.

Waaagggh got better and worse. You get better assaults but took away fearless, a good trade

Waaagh! never gave fearless without Thrakka. Now you can still give fearless if you have the right warlord trait, which Thrakka always has. The only (minor) nerf for the Waaagh! is requiring a warboss now.

Ghaz moved to lord of war and one of the o ly inv saves out there now for orks and it is only on the waaaagggghh so he may have eternal warrior lesser characters are going to punch him out for his lunch money a squad of assault termites will even kick his teef in

A squad of assault terminators kicked in his teef before, nothing new here.

Flashgitz are to unreliable should be d3 ap d6 means they cannot reliably do what you would want them to do.

What do you want them to do? If you roll above 3 they still shot a squad of tactical marines of the board due to metric ton of shots, as well as anything with armor worse than that. They obviously aren't meant for killing terminators, and we've got better tools to do that job.

Kommandoes and snikrot are decent. Snikrot took a bit of a hit but gained shred

His knives always had that rule. He gained shroud on the turn he arrives though.

Boss zag lost assault out of deep strike and his initiative claw (and his claw in general wtf gw) one str 8 ap2 hammer of wrath is all he brings to the table. I love the model but he will be just counts as a nob with pk

He never had a klaw unless charging, and that HoW thing is a guaranteed hit at I10, unlike his previous 3 attacks. So you've got a good chance to instant-kill a character in a challenge before he can even strike, not matter how fast he is. He's also a HQ for 65 points, so a great choice for small games.

Big mek... Will be taken for off again and fun players will keep using the sag which is actually good for the points. Mega armor big mek can take sag and kff which is cool

MA mek can't take a SAG. He gets a tellyporta blasta instead which instant-deaths stuff on a roll of 6.

Weird boys .. Well these guys got a big buff. Still a fluffy fun option but can kick ass too so will find thier way into comoetative lists.

Doubt that, but he does at least pull his own weight now. He is in similar position as the SAG, good option, but there are some way better ones, especially pain boyz.

New objectives for 11-16 are bad... Like very bad and not your control hopefully they become options.

How are easily archived missions worse than being forced to grab an objective that might be stuck on the other side of the table?

Mek guns are still not Melta which is sad also one shot so nobody will buy them as you miss 2/3 shots and they cost extra

They are the same cost as rokkits everywhere, so you don't exactly play extra.

Giffindaz are interesting for bikes with relentless

Doesn't work. See relentless rules in the BRB, it's only relevant to SAG meks on bikes or in units with a MA model.

Which apoc book for the Stompa? Not seeing in the 2013 apoc book will defer to you on most things work was just giving my first Impreasions from a few read throughs

The GW Apocalypse book, I think it's just called "Apocalypse", without "Imperial Armour" in front of it like the forgeworld books.

Just purchased my Copy of the Ork dex. Pwnage and toyz! Here I come!

I was really hoping that they would allow rokkit packs on HQ choices. I really want a weirdboy flying around with a stormboyz squad. Making a warboss with a giant rokkit pack would have been cool too.

on a weirdboy? HA! i would love to even take ARMOR on the guy.

T4 2 wounds and only a 6+ save makes him one of the squishiest psykers in the game, only ones that are easier to kill arent HQs. Hes technically rather nasty in both psyker and melee, but if hes in melee hes dead before he attacks unless theyre just punching infantry junk.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
on a weirdboy? HA! i would love to even take ARMOR on the guy.

T4 2 wounds and only a 6+ save makes him one of the squishiest psykers in the game, only ones that are easier to kill arent HQs. Hes technically rather nasty in both psyker and melee, but if hes in melee hes dead before he attacks unless theyre just punching infantry junk.

I too wish the Weirdboy wasn't so easily squashed in CC! They are easily my most favorite unit in the entire book, and have been for a long long time. But they can be easily wiped if you're not careful. Though I suppose the whole concept of Orks is that they are bullies, so I suppose the Weirdboy should only be bashing small skulls and not the big dogs. Still, I'd love to be able to smack a fool that was worth his armor with that force staff :I

 krodarklorr wrote:

They have Model pictures instead of nicely drawn, fluffy pictures for the unit descriptions. .

That's depressing.

 Remulus wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

They have Model pictures instead of nicely drawn, fluffy pictures for the unit descriptions. .

That's depressing.

They do, however, have ltos of pictures elsewhere. Just now you have a pic of the actual model in the description for the model.....

 Vineheart01 wrote:
on a weirdboy? HA! i would love to even take ARMOR on the guy.

T4 2 wounds and only a 6+ save makes him one of the squishiest psykers in the game, only ones that are easier to kill arent HQs. Hes technically rather nasty in both psyker and melee, but if hes in melee hes dead before he attacks unless theyre just punching infantry junk.

My Weirdboy popped an Avatar last week.

My opponent figured he's no danger and decided he'd rather stomp on regular boyz.

Sorry if this is a minor thread necro' but just wanted to share my thoughts seeing as the dex has been out for a few weeks now.

Gotta be honest, not digging the new codex overall, largely because it messes up my army theme/list.

Since 3rd Ed i've run Killa Kanz. They used to be piloted by boyz, which is fine, as my army has 'no grots' fluff.

In the 4th Ed codex the fluff was rewriten so that kanz were piloted by grots....which was fine, because I could largely fit it into my fluff anyway.
I would just say the boyz shot better because they're stuck in a kan all day with nothing better to do than shoot at random stuff...

With this version of kanz, no way in hell can I make the leap of fluff. I doubt anyone will let me ignore the new morale rules for them.

I'm also not digging that my Nobz have lost 'eavy armour upgrades when they lead a boyz squad.

The nobz are supposed to be the hardest, lording it over the other boyz. Removing options makes no sense to me.

Tie this in with the wound allocation rules of 6th and 7th Ed, and my nobz can no longer lead from the front like they should - they have to cower at the back or the middle of the mob.

I'm glad that flash gits have gotten better. I doubt I will ever use them in my army (don't use lootas either) but I'm sure most people will see this as a thumbs up.

Gorka/Morkanaut could be fun, but fail to see what real use they are. Not enough dakka/speed/transport capacity to be useful for the points. Just something big for the enemy to shoot at...and if that's the case I'd might as well take my Stompa

Anyway, glad to get that off my chest. Have a happy Waaaagh! guys

TL;DR

Why no eavy armour for boss nobz? Scaredy kanz ruins my list.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
on a weirdboy? HA! i would love to even take ARMOR on the guy.

T4 2 wounds and only a 6+ save makes him one of the squishiest psykers in the game, only ones that are easier to kill arent HQs. Hes technically rather nasty in both psyker and melee, but if hes in melee hes dead before he attacks unless theyre just punching infantry junk.

My Weirdboy popped an Avatar last week.

My opponent figured he's no danger and decided he'd rather stomp on regular boyz.

Youre opponent must not have any knowledge on ork powers.
Literally every single one of my opponents see my spells and go "Holy crap....ok that guy is so dead" espcially when i manage to wrangle Killbolt + Warpath.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Could also be local meta thing but the general idea people usually bring counters the gak out of kans too.

Take my tau for instance. I normally play 2k or bigger games, and i always have 1 riptide with IA, 3 Missilesides with 6 missile drones, 3 crisis suits with missilepods targetlocks and 6 marker drones, and a tanky buffmander to go with the crisis suits for BS5 markerlights and two nasty missile units rather than one. Damn near always have a skyray too.
I would MELT a walker list unless it was a trio of gorkanauts, since i can only glance them and odds are i MIGHT glance one to death given the repairs shenanigans you can do with'm. But i can kite the gak out of them, so its just a longer fight. Nobody is ever going to field 3 gorkanauts though lol.
And thats just my usual list i usually field, with some slight tweaks here and there i always bring that. I have never faced Tau with my orks but even in the new dex i compare my armies and i still go "orks be boned..." - loss of the invul being the biggest culprit here.

Against my game with Tau just the other day, I have to say I had fun running a Green Tide against an entire Jump suit army. I didn't kill as much as I wanted, quite obviously, but I'll tell you. That KFF and FNP combo on a blob of 130ish Boyz was crazy fun, with a Weirdboy, Warboss, Big Mek, Painboy, and some Nobz with Klaws. I cut down the Riptide after finally catching up with it, thanks to Da Jump getting me where I needed to be, and with the Waaaagh! and Ere' we go getting me into combat. Even with his group of 3 dual Flamers, it took him until turn 5 to actually kill my large mob down to 20. Was hilariously fun, despite my Bikes and Kanz doing very little to aid me, as he was able to kill those quite quickly :p


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Rikerwota wrote:


TL;DR

Why no eavy armour for boss nobz? Scaredy kanz ruins my list.

The Kanz moral check isn't that bad. Sure, it makes them Snap Shot, but I still run Kanz like they are going out of style. They are probably in my top 3 favorite units for the Ork army, simply because they look amazing, and are just so damn Orky. I haven't had a chance to test out my Morkanaught yet since I haven't gotten him backl from the painter (will later today though), but I think it will be more useful than people are thinking. It frees an HQ slot, does the KFF better anyway with it's larger radius, and has some decent weaponry for 300 points. I wouldn't bring a near 800 point Stompa just to give them something to fire at. Would leave nothing else for you to play with really.

I feel the Morj/Gork's big weakness is they can't be shielded like a Big Mek can, but the way I see it, is less shots made at my Boyz is not a bad thing either. And with the repair BS we can do with it, I think it will be an underestimated threat.

 Multimoog wrote:
Keep room in your points for Grotsnik in the other blob! That takes care of FnP as well

This list could be really hard-countered with a lot of AV14 but it would rip up most everything else:

Mad Dok Grotsnik 160
Warboss: Big Bosspole 80
Warboss 60
Painboy 50
Big Mek: kustom force field 85
Big Mek: kustom force field 85

25 Boyz 150
25 Boyz 150
25 Boyz 150
25 Boyz 150
25 Boyz 150
25 Boyz 150
25 Boyz 150
25 Boyz 150
10 Gretchin: + 1 Runtherd 35
10 Gretchin: + 1 Runtherd 35
10 Gretchin: + 1 Runtherd 35
10 Gretchin: + 1 Runtherd 35

5 Mek Gunz: kustom mega-kannon; 2× smasha gun; traktor kannon; + 10× Gretchin 138

1,998 points


Automatically Appended Next Post:
What's nice is that it's still a battleforged army, so you can just have all those grots backfield securing your own objectives while the two giant blobs scour the enemy off theirs. You just... have to have 240+ miniatures on hand... uh, heh...

This could work, except that smasha guns are pure crap. Lootas, Kannon/KMK Mek Gunz do the same job against low AV vehicles. High AV is what the smasha gun should be good at, and it fails miserably. PK or killsaw are our best answer.

I actually mathhammered smasha guns and was very surprized by the results. They are excelent vehicle killers, almost twice as good as KMKs. AP 1 simply is that good.

jidmah wrote:A smasha has a 50% chance to hit and and a 27.77% chance to pen AV12 or a 16.66% chance to pen AV13. If it does, it has a 33.33% chance to roll an Explodes! result for a total chance of:
4.63% to explode AV12 with a single gun, 21.10% with a whole battery.
2.78% to explode AV13 with a single gun, 13.14% with a whole battery.

A kustom mega-kannon has 33.33% chance to hit plus a 18.52% chance to not scatter off a vehicle (assuming the vehicle is at least 2" in diameter and you aimed for the center), for a total of 51.82% chance to hit (obviously better for larger vehicles). When hitting, you've got a chance of 33.33% to pen an AV12 vehicle and 16.66% to pen AV13, if you do, there is a 16.66% chance to explode them, for a total chance of:
2.88% to explode AV12 with a single gun, 13.58% for the whole battery
1.44% to explode AV13 with a single gun, 6.99% for the whole battery

I don't need smasha to kill AV 10-12 we have other things that are cheaper or more versatile to handle that role. I need it to handle AV 13+ At range, which your numbers show it's miserable at.