Some of the pics nabbed from the site warboss linked to:
Given the size of the star destroyer when viewed on the large table in that last pic, I can't imagine there will be that many ships used at once in this game. Despite comments to the contrary here, imo that thing is massive . If they put out a larger Imperial (rather than Victory class) destroyer, running one of those flanked by two Victory ships would take up most of your space already, assuming you want to be able to do any maneuvers.
Also, the mat is really interesting, with those lighter colored areas on each side. Could someone who is there measure what width the mat is, and what the width of those lighter sections are?
I believe the tables are 6x4, the lighter areas are deployment zones, and the corners mark the play area. I can ask next time I'm in the dealer room. Mind you, I'm eyeballing everything from my 15-20 minutes of hovering.
Interesting. So smaller ships/escorts are appear to be fighter sized. With medium warships likely being around Falcon sized. With the ISD possibly being the size of the new Decimator.
Honestly I was hoping for them to be slightly smaller and hoping more for a fleet scale game. I think Killkrazy was right when he said it's more task force sized. It just feels so much smaller than a game like BFG for example.
Models look great though. Going to be interesting to see their pricing for the ships and fighters.
Platuan4th wrote: I believe the tables are 6x4, the lighter areas are deployment zones, and the corners mark the play area. I can ask next time I'm in the dealer room. Mind you, I'm eyeballing everything from my 15-20 minutes of hovering.
Please do! You can ask with the idea of knowing the deployment zone size, or when it will be for sale, etc etc
If it's 6x4, I'll be thrilled! I picked up a 6x4 space mat and was thinking to hold out for Dropzone's eventual fleet game... but I would love to use it for this in the interim! Although if it's only 3 feet wide I may just cut it or otherwise mark off 6" on either side.
Hulksmash wrote: Interesting. So smaller ships/escorts are appear to be fighter sized. With medium warships likely being around Falcon sized. With the ISD possibly being the size of the new Decimator.
Honestly I was hoping for them to be slightly smaller and hoping more for a fleet scale game. I think Killkrazy was right when he said it's more task force sized. It just feels so much smaller than a game like BFG for example.
Models look great though. Going to be interesting to see their pricing for the ships and fighters.
If playing on a true 6'x4' table, it might be quite possible to play larger games, but they'd end up being as crowded as the battle at Endor was with the capital ships being tight against one another delivering old-school broadsides and risking collisions.
Yeah, I'm still excited. But based on the size of the ships it really is likely to be between 3-8 ships per side with some fighter squadrons mixed in. Which isn't to far off from Gothic if you just consider the fighter "Escorts" from BFG (like frigates & destroyers).
Really interested in finding out the basic point level for tournament games as we can extrapolate a lot from the released ships if we know that
Platuan4th wrote: Just finished the demo. They said it will be for sale January/February. Table size is 3ftx3ft for the starter/demo, tournament size is 3ftx6ft.
I'll wite up a run down later. I took notes and more pictures!
So glad they use the same table sizes. I'd hate to have to go into other vendors sites and complain about their logos on a 4'x5' mat , I think they have heard enough from me about that on the current sizes.
The Star Destroyer looks about 80 to 100mm long. That is small enough that some of the larger Star Destroyer types could feasibly be made as a model for the game, which must be part of the thinking.
Starting at 31:00 in the video (basically the last minute and a half) they zoom in all the cards. They also discuss standard game size.
The FFG employee said this is 300 points.
Some ship costs:
Victory I - 75
Victory II - 85
Tie Squadron - 9
Corvette - 38
He said the maximum number of Victory ships you can have in this size game is 3. This is because there is a mandatory commander cost in the range of 25 - 35 points, and of course you'll want some squadrons.
I've gotta also thank FFG for trying to have some logical consistency to their measurements (not in terms of scale).
I'm one of those oddballs who LOVES playing X-wing at the Epic scale, and had a custom play-mat done in 6' x 3', which in this hobby is kind of an odd-ball number.
Now said investment gets to serve double duty! Bring on the pre-orders!!!!!!
Thank you to those who are updating us from Gencon. The game looks like a lot of fun. Can't wait to see more upgrade cards and what the first Commanders (Admirals?) do.
Way back in the 90s, I was in a WEG Star Wars RPG campaign with some friends, and we managed to get ownership of a Victory II in the course of the game. We named it Red Dwarf (I'd introduced them to the show not long before that), and painted the thing bright red...and so, the first Victory SD that I get my hands on WILL be repainted immediately.
The pics look good, I'm content with the scale even if I don't think it's perfect. Like HBMC I'm mainly concerned about relative power between the units and how accurately they reflect the "real" power of the units. I hope mass squadrons of fighters is a viable gameplay style, I imagine that would be either rebels or Imps with a dedicated carrier like the Carrier Escort, a 500 meter box that can carry up to 72 fighters: (disclaimer model not related to this game)
Jehan-reznor wrote: It would be interesting to see a campaign system that uses armada and x-wing combined.
This is the sort of thing I love to do too ; ) It's also one of the main selling points of the Mantic dungeon bash KS running atm and why I'm hugely getting into their warpath setting as it's got 3 game systems running in it already.
shade1313 wrote: Way back in the 90s, I was in a WEG Star Wars RPG campaign with some friends, and we managed to get ownership of a Victory II in the course of the game. We named it Red Dwarf (I'd introduced them to the show not long before that), and painted the thing bright red...and so, the first Victory SD that I get my hands on WILL be repainted immediately.
I still have the books for that system which I've been flicking through again thanks to this SW: Armada. I GMed a campaign and my players really enjoyed it, best accomplishment being getting a patrol cruiser (iirc) and a clan of Gammoreans to do their bidding. Getting ownership of a SD of any flavour would have been overwhelming but awesome ; ) Was a great game system.
Whilst googling pics I saw this: ... and decided I needed to replicate it ; p (even if those a-wings are somewhat larger than they maybe should be) ; p
The pics look good, I'm content with the scale even if I don't think it's perfect. Like HBMC I'm mainly concerned about relative power between the units and how accurately they reflect the "real" power of the units. I hope mass squadrons of fighters is a viable gameplay style, I imagine that would be either rebels or Imps with a dedicated carrier like the Carrier Escort, a 500 meter box that can carry up to 72 fighters:
(disclaimer model not related to this game)
Jehan-reznor wrote: It would be interesting to see a campaign system that uses armada and x-wing combined.
This is the sort of thing I love to do too ; ) It's also one of the main selling points of the Mantic dungeon bash KS running atm and why I'm hugely getting into their warpath setting as it's got 3 game systems running in it already.
shade1313 wrote: Way back in the 90s, I was in a WEG Star Wars RPG campaign with some friends, and we managed to get ownership of a Victory II in the course of the game. We named it Red Dwarf (I'd introduced them to the show not long before that), and painted the thing bright red...and so, the first Victory SD that I get my hands on WILL be repainted immediately.
I still have the books for that system which I've been flicking through again thanks to this SW: Armada. I GMed a campaign and my players really enjoyed it, best accomplishment being getting a patrol cruiser (iirc) and a clan of Gammoreans to do their bidding. Getting ownership of a SD of any flavour would have been overwhelming but awesome ; ) Was a great game system.
Whilst googling pics I saw this:
... and decided I needed to replicate it ; p (even if those a-wings are somewhat larger than they maybe should be) ; p
Best accomplishment for our little group was allowing our ship to be taken into the bay of an Eclipse class SD which was undermanned. Did I mention that we'd swapped out half of our turbolaser batteries for ion cannons? And the glee on our faces when we announced to the GM that, once inside, we fired all ion guns into the interior of that Eclipse, then unleashed several hundred combat droids armed with decksweeper stunners into the interior of the ship?
They seem to imply that an ISD would be the size of the table and cost $400 dollars with only certain people being able to afford it. Stopped watching at that point. If they release properly edited footage of their game being demo'd i'll perhaps watch that.
That is nonsense.
If they had taken the time to perhaps scale the game properly they could have easily included things like multiple Star Destroyers in this game.
This is not a Fleet scaled game. We have an idea of what Fleet engagements should look like from Empire & Jedi.
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
If we take out the possibility of the Executor, then the rest of this game should have been very easy to scale. There have been plenty of suggestions in this thread about what to do with the smaller ships like selling the Blockade Runner as multiples of that type of ship in one box.
Well for one, that guy was probably talking about the Executor, not an ISD. An Imperial class Star Destroyer is apparently double the size of a victory, very doable at this scale.
The executor would be giant, I forget what the true scale would be, but scaling it down would be easy. These are gaming models, not scale replicas.
The smaller ships will just be blisters, just like the X-Wing stuff. They're the same size and it'll be fine.
edit: Oh wait, did you mean stuff like the YT-1300 and Decimator?
How about a summary of all this shed light for those of us who don't have time to watch a 30 minute video?
Thanks.
Aside from the basics I think that are well-covered by the announcement, the defenses aspect was most intriguing to me as the game has no defense dice. Each ship (and elite squadrons, apparently) has defenses to mitigate die rolls in various ways beyond the obvious shields/hull. The VSD has defenses to halve the number of successful hits and two "redirect" tokens that allow it to shunt damage to other arcs. Those can be used each round, and it sounded like if you're willing to lose it for the game you can use it twice in one round. In contrast, the corvettes get 1 redirect and 2 evade tokens, but the evades become less useful as the ranges close. At range 3 they cancel dice, at range 2 they force a die to be re-rolled and at close range they do nothing at all. Additionally the dice have "accurate attack" results that, while not doing direct damage, allow the attacker to negate one type of defense on the target.
This means that a VSD at close range will be rolling six dice in the front arc, and actually has much more impressive shields since it can use it's side arcs as well as taking what would be a ton of damage and cutting it in half. Meanwhile, the corvette with only one redirect and evades is stuck either plinking away at long range or having to close and weakening the defenses it has as the VSD's firepower increases dramatically.
The VSD's command value could be tricky, but it seems like the fact that it's slow (max speed 2) and speed persists from round to round mitigates that somewhat; you can likely focus on shields vs. firepower depending on how you think things will be in 3 turns but if you get caught out by maneuvers you're going to be sorry. I'm not sure two CR90s would be able to go toe-to-toe with a VSD, but I can see them being able to hurt one badly in tandem just by outmaneuvering it. However, I can also see a VSD laying waste to one on a single pass at close range; the dice seem weighted towards hurting things as the VSD at long range can, with luck, put out six hits on its three red dice.
Scoring is also a combination of points destroyed + objectives, and objectives are scaled point-wise to align with ship costs so it's an even system. So it's not always going to be who can win a slugfest, but who can hurt things while completing their mission.
Those are the things that were "new" to me, and they do add another dimension to things.
I can see some reasons for the size and power scale to be what it is. How many Rebel players would really be willing to have accurate scaling if it meant needing $80 worth of small ships to match one $20 VSD?
Vertrucio wrote: The executor would be giant, I forget what the true scale would be, but scaling it down would be easy. These are gaming models, not scale replicas.
A lot of people on this thread are having a hard time grasping this.
Vertrucio wrote: The executor would be giant, I forget what the true scale would be, but scaling it down would be easy. These are gaming models, not scale replicas.
A lot of people on this thread are having a hard time grasping this.
Why would that be a bad thing? It's pretty difficult to obtain scaled versions of these ships. FFG could have created a product that was marketable to a wider array of buyers than simply those that want to play the game.
It wouldn't have been hard to do and it seems like this game isn't going to represent Star Wars fleet combat appropriately.
At this point FFG might as well have just invented their own ships.
If you have trouble finding a set of models properly scaled to each other, then that is not FFG's mistake or issue. Blame that on Lucasfilm's, now Disney's, poor license availability.
It's also a game based on an entirely fictional universe. Sorry, but "appropriately" is in the eye of the beholder.
That said, the VSD seems like it could definitely blast a CR90 out of the sky in one turn if one ended up in close range in front of it.
I'm still excited for this but that's mostly because I see it as a chance to get to play capital ship games again. Something I haven't been able to do with consistancy since BFG's popularity. It might not be everything I want (i.e. 4-8 "Cruisers" w/3-9 "Destroyer/Frigate/LC") but it will let me play small scale fleet games regularly with tournament support if X-wing is anything to go by. And Star Wars will make it instantly popular.
And I don't think it's an actual cash grab. I will have to see what the pricing on the ships is though since I'm still a bit worried based on the starter cost.
Medium of Death, I think you make some valid points but I also think you're representing a "vocal minority" type of position- there are going to be fans that won't be satisfied with anything other than perfect scaling, but given what people who are actually at GenCon have posted, this is going down really well there. I'm personally quite happy with the size of the ships shown- if anything, I think they should be smaller! I would've loved to be able to field more ships (like 6 destroyers rather than 3) in a standard game, but that would also increase the cost of entry to the game. You can always play 600 points instead of 300 to run a true fleet.
Vocal minority sure enough. I'd imagine the collectors market would of been larger though.
This game doesn't seem like it's meant to last.
The bases are particularly troubling to me. I'm not sure why there's so many dials and gubbins involved.
This will be carted out and then disposed of. Definite cash grab.
Just another example of the problems that have plagued Star Wars merchandise before; people are so eager to eat it up that they don't know where to stop or to ask for better.
The bases are particularly troubling to me. I'm not sure why there's so many dials and gubbins involved.
This is to keep the status of the units in question as obvious as possible on the playing field for both parties while retaining the mechanics of the different ship sections and the tactical options such things present. Rather than record-keeping being off to the side and/or requiring a mass of counters to be moved about, it's right on the table for the most part and done with a minimum of fuss. Damage cards, speed and defense status seem to be the only things that are off to the main field. This speeds up the game, which is important in a tournament setting to get through matches more quickly so you can have more rounds/participants and it is in those competitive environments where a game can get some serious legs.
The 3 ships in the starter will be available individually, as well as rebel/imperial fighter packs containing 8 bases of fighters (looks like there might be a mix), a gladiator class star destroyer for imps and an assault frigate (mk 3) for rebs.
Tannhauser42 wrote: I can see some reasons for the size and power scale to be what it is. How many Rebel players would really be willing to have accurate scaling if it meant needing $80 worth of small ships to match one $20 VSD?
Even the original movies have 3 or 4 types of Rebel ships which can be credibly seen combatting a Star Destroyer, and EU has tons more. There would have been no need for this scaling up the Corvette only so that the game involves an 'iconic' Rebel ship (which was actually only shown for like 30 seconds in the first movie...). The corvette is 1/6th the length, and probably like 1/50th the mass of a VSD. It's just daft.
Really does seem like the only ship "upscaled" is the corvette. The rest seem to be in reasonable scale to each other.
I need a better picture of the Assault Frigate. Not sure I'm a fan. Interesting they went with a design of their own instead of the Mark 1 or 2. Love the rest of it though.
I doubt it. FFG's models are good enough for gaming purposes, but I can't imagine anyone wanting them just for their display shelf.
This game doesn't seem like it's meant to last.
Why not? Everything looks fine to me, and so far your only real criticism seems to be "the models aren't perfectly scaled". And the scale issue is something that was inevitable with a fleet combat game in the Star Wars universe, simply because the size differences between the biggest and smallest ships is larger than the maximum realistic variation in size between models.
The bases are particularly troubling to me. I'm not sure why there's so many dials and gubbins involved.
This is to keep the status of the units in question as obvious as possible on the playing field for both parties while retaining the mechanics of the different ship sections and the tactical options such things present. Rather than record-keeping being off to the side and/or requiring a mass of counters to be moved about, it's right on the table for the most part and done with a minimum of fuss. Damage cards, speed and defense status seem to be the only things that are off to the main field. This speeds up the game, which is important in a tournament setting to get through matches more quickly so you can have more rounds/participants and it is in those competitive environments where a game can get some serious legs.
These features also make the game very accessible to non-wargamers, because you can tell them the defence field is value 3, as shown by the dial, and when they take a hit it goes down to 2, and so on.
Also an announcement of Imperial Assault, a ground-based (dungeon crawler type?) board game with Star Wars miniatures, including an AT-ST visible in the pics.
I'm sure that it won't be long before linked campaigns using the two systems are available, and possibly not too long until a third, ground combat system is released to complete the set.
Called it. Nothing here that doesn't look awesome.
I doubt it. FFG's models are good enough for gaming purposes, but I can't imagine anyone wanting them just for their display shelf.
This game doesn't seem like it's meant to last.
Why not? Everything looks fine to me, and so far your only real criticism seems to be "the models aren't perfectly scaled". And the scale issue is something that was inevitable with a fleet combat game in the Star Wars universe, simply because the size differences between the biggest and smallest ships is larger than the maximum realistic variation in size between models.
Asking for correctly scaled ships is not asking for the moon. It would have perhaps introduced some interesting game mechanics. Also, here's a quick indicator of the potential size these ships could have been to remain in scale while being playable. Obviously I appreciate that the model is in three dimensions but felt length the best way to portray the differences.
Rough example taking that an Inch would be 200m. The Blockade runner i totally doable in that size as is the Nebulon.
The smaller Rebel ships could have easily come in multiples. Having scaled ships could have really increased the maneuvering options. Smaller ships being able to run circles around the Star Destroyers. I really don't see that as being possible now.
If you watch the video on the prior page, they actually do have a cool mechanic allowing the smaller ships to run circles around the bigger ones.
Maybe the game mechanics wouldn't work well with too many small ships, though- at the point costs we've seen, I think the most ships people could run in a standard sized game would be 9 (if they want to include a decent number of fighter squadrons, too) or 10 (with no fighters).
It would be sweet to see 30 small rebel ships fighting a few star destroyers, but it just might not be workable from a game mechanics perspective. As previously noted, they're not just aiming at wargamers with this, and there are other space fleet games for people who prefer more ships (as much as I would've liked this to have them).
Even at the current number of ships, though, this is going to be pricey to hit 300 points for each side.
If you really want to play big Star Wars fleet actions you could get a load of Star Wars models and work out appropriate stats and points using the Starmada rules.
I'm really hoping pricing on the VSD/Assault Frigate is $30 like a falcon and that the frigate/corvette/gladiator are $15. With Fighter blisters being $10-$15. That way getting one of everything on launch isn't totally insane. You'd be looking at (assuming different upgrades in the fighter blisters) $225-$235. Which isn't wallet breaking. Bump those costs up $5-$10 each and it starts to get into a different realm.
This would give you two 300pt fleets or so with some flexibility. Fingers crossed since you could get everything for x-wing on launch and play full 100pt squadrons on both sides with them for just $100.
I must say, the Gladiator and Assault Frigate mk.3 are slightly odd choices for Wave 0.
See, I can understand why they don't roll out the Mc80 and ISD in wave 0; they're extremely iconic ships, and can generate a lot of hype for the first post-release wave. However, their choices of really minor vessels is a bit odd; the Mk.3 only ever appeared in Empire At War, as far as I know (and almost every mod axed it in favour of the more well known version, or just Dreadnoughts), and the gladiator is virtually unknown, whereas something like a Carrack would be much more recognizable to Starwars fans, fitting the same niche as a smaller frigate, though is a bit uninteresting as a model.
I'm still going to get all the things, but it's a bit odd where X-Wing focused on iconic stuff first, Armada's jumping not just into the EU (a necessity, in truth, for any capital ship game), but really minor parts of the EU first.
Yeah, I would have preferred the MkI version of the assault frigate. As for the Imperial ship I like the choice. the carack is an ugly little ship and it's aesthetic isn't strongly imperial which is what the Gladiator has going for it.
I don't know, I'm still geeking out about this . Didn't have this experience with X-wing since I didn't get drawn in, but I'm happy to have some other iconic ships coming in the next wave, assuming they tease them as it gets closer.
Like Hulk, I'm a fan of the Gladiator, and while I don't recognize the other ship it looks cool and is of the "aquatic" style that makes the others (soon to come!?) so cool.
Anyone else getting the sense that this game might very well just fall flat on its face?
At least until an ISD is released. - Even then though, part of me is really starting to think now, once my initial excitement is over, that this will just be a flash in the pan.
I used to be a massive star wars fan in my teens. - All the books, utterly obsessed. TIE Fighter was actually my first 'proper' computer game.
I have never even seen the Gladiator class before. And I think I only, maybe, sorta, kinda, saw, ish that version of the Assault Frigate once before too...
Interesting, no Tie Interceptor in the Ties. Just the Bomber, Advanced, and Fighter. But Rebs get A,B,X, and Y. Guess that fighter pack is a requirement now
My only concern is that the pricing is apparently higher than most people were anticipating. Over on the FFG forum someone mentioned that the Assault Frigate is $40, Gladiator is $30, and Fighter packs are $20.
That's getting up there in price for a 300pt fleet (around $200 per fleet or $300+ for both to start).
As for it being a flash in the pan I don't think so. The pricing certainly isn't great but since Wave 6 isn't anything epic and I don't think most people not deep in the EU are going to be to interested it should work out for Armada. Thankfully no Imperial Epic or anything was being set for release.
I also hadn't seen the Gladiator before but it makes more sense aesthetically then a Carrack or Lancer class cruiser. As for the Assault Frigate I would have preferred the Mark I but I'll just have to deal.
Compel wrote: I have never even seen the Gladiator class before. And I think I only, maybe, sorta, kinda, saw, ish that version of the Assault Frigate once before too...
The Gladiator Class was seen in the old (circa 1985) Star Wars: Droids cartoon series. The Assault Frigate originated from the Star Wars: Empire at War real-time strategy game (circa 2006) according to Wookieepedia.
MajorStoffer wrote: I must say, the Gladiator and Assault Frigate mk.3 are slightly odd choices for Wave 0.
See, I can understand why they don't roll out the Mc80 and ISD in wave 0; they're extremely iconic ships, and can generate a lot of hype for the first post-release wave. However, their choices of really minor vessels is a bit odd; the Mk.3 only ever appeared in Empire At War, as far as I know (and almost every mod axed it in favour of the more well known version, or just Dreadnoughts), and the gladiator is virtually unknown, whereas something like a Carrack would be much more recognizable to Starwars fans, fitting the same niche as a smaller frigate, though is a bit uninteresting as a model.
I'm still going to get all the things, but it's a bit odd where X-Wing focused on iconic stuff first, Armada's jumping not just into the EU (a necessity, in truth, for any capital ship game), but really minor parts of the EU first.
According to the photo in the above post, the ship is labeled as a Mark II.
Hulksmash wrote: Interesting, no Tie Interceptor in the Ties. Just the Bomber, Advanced, and Fighter. But Rebs get A,B,X, and Y. Guess that fighter pack is a requirement now
Alex C wrote: Hulk - Interceptors are in the top pic at the bottom.
Hulksmash wrote: Oh snap, good catch. Sweet!!!! Is it bad that I'm super excited for the little paintable fighters?
Oh wow, I didn't see ANY of those the first time, only the capital ships . That's awesome!
Interesting, so the capital ships in wave 1 are around the 30-40 dollar mark and the fighter packs (although we don't know what is in them) are $20 a piece.
Those Imperial ships are making me VERY excited for the game. Especially if they are dipping into the EU so soon.
RiTides wrote: I totally didn't see the price placards in the pic, either . Apparently was blinded by the sight of the capital ships
It's okay, that is a natural reaction to seeing those ships.
I do like the Imperial ships they showed, but I am waiting for the full ISD before I really get excited (I know this won't be until wave 2-3, but I can dream ).
Hulksmash wrote: I'm really hoping pricing on the VSD/Assault Frigate is $30 like a falcon and that the frigate/corvette/gladiator are $15. With Fighter blisters being $10-$15. That way getting one of everything on launch isn't totally insane. You'd be looking at (assuming different upgrades in the fighter blisters) $225-$235. Which isn't wallet breaking. Bump those costs up $5-$10 each and it starts to get into a different realm.
This would give you two 300pt fleets or so with some flexibility. Fingers crossed since you could get everything for x-wing on launch and play full 100pt squadrons on both sides with them for just $100.
Why would the VSD be so expensive? That's pretty insane for a tiny toy ship. An ISD, sure, but a VSD isn't worth that.
Man, for a fleet battle game, they sure don't want us to have many ships.
I'm very surprised by the ship choices for the first wave, with both of the non-starter shps having only appeared in one source. I can't say I'm displeased with them, however. The Imperial one looks pretty good (though I have never seen it before), and I have never liked the Mk 1 too much (always looked too much like a Nebulon B, probably why they didn't use it) so I am happy to see the Mk II, as it was one of my favorite of the original ship designs from Empire at War.
I think that the choice of ships may be aimed to please fans of all types. The starter ships are aimed at people who don't know much beyond the movies, all being iconic ships (with the Victory being close enough to an Imperial to satisfy most) while the other ships are clearly aimed at EU fans, and could also be a pledge to these fans that FFG is willing to chose even the most obscure EU references in their game (by choosing 2 of the most obscure ships that still have enough visual references to be made).
Though I still have concerns about the ship's comparative power, I am happy to see that the ships other than the CR-90 are close to in scale with each other, making it look like the CR-90 was the only one wildly out of scale and role.
The sad thing is that at $20 per ship, I'd buy a shameful amount of them and hide them in the cupboard next to the cookies I shouldn't have bought either. But $30 for one tiny fething mook ship?
BobtheInquisitor wrote: The sad thing is that at $20 per ship, I'd buy a shameful amount of them and hide them in the cupboard next to the cookies I shouldn't have bought either. But $30 for one tiny fething kook ship?
No, FFG, screw you.
Looks about the same size as the Falcon and the Firespray from X-Wing, who are both $30.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: The sad thing is that at $20 per ship, I'd buy a shameful amount of them and hide them in the cupboard next to the cookies I shouldn't have bought either. But $30 for one tiny fething kook ship?
No, FFG, screw you.
Looks about the same size as the Falcon and the Firespray from X-Wing, who are both $30.
The gladiator looks tiny to me.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, the snap fit falcon is the same size and half the price.
I'm not thrilled with the prices, but it's been a while since I saw the price tag on a tabletop game and said "Oh, that's a good deal!" so that's not an FFG-exclusive shortcoming either. The models look good and the game looks fun, so I'll just have to be reasonable in my purchases rather than attempting to recreate the entire Imperial Navy.
I will probably prioritize Armada over Imperial Assault and X-Wing wave 6, though the former will be bought. I do wonder looking at this how much FFG will be taking their own sales since you know with FFG a steady amount of content/expansions will be pushed out for a while at least. A good problem to have maybe, but I can see where it would hurt sales too as people commit to one or the other instead of all three (since "toy money" is a finite resource for most people).
There are quite a few x-wing players in our local area and although I have resisted that I think this fleet based game would be worth getting into.
Also the YouTube clip of the demo game at gencon is pretty good at showing how quickly the game can be picked up.
I don't think the $39.99 is just one ship, but at worst one capitol ship and several stands of fighters as well as any necessary ephemera. I would ask when I go back tomorrow but they are packed from the start of the day to the end of the day.
If a fighter for X-wing with stand, dial and some other tokens and cards was $15 retail, and this pack has 5 or 6 stands of various fighters, their dials and cards and tokens, it really isn;t too bad in my opinion.
Grot 6 wrote: I'm really hoping that we are seeing a little jump the gun here, and that the battle group itself with a few more ships and fighters is the 39.00.
Good looking game though, looks like its going to be a lot of fun.
Look at the pics from the presentation a page back. It looks like none of the capital ships come with fighters, and fighters will be eight stands at $19.95
I think it's more likely that you'll get two stands of a specific type of fighter for the$20. Since you move two stands as one action/turn. Plus them being slightly smaller and I painted I think that is reasonable considering 1 fighter for $15 of x-wing.
Guys, look how much stuff we get in one fighter pack for X-Wing. We're talking pilot, crew, and captain cards, upgrades, and a whole lot of tokens, likely some missions and special rules.
A single ship is not just a painted model, it's everything you need to use it in a variety of ways.
Go look at the gameplay examples and you can see just some of the things that could be included, probably a number of defense tiles, multiple captains, various upgrades.
A single ship is not just a painted model, it's everything you need to use it in a variety of ways.
You mean it's a single ship and a bunch of rules where two corvettes are a match for a VSD. So, it's just a single ship. And some trash.
The rules certainly aren't worth $20 of that $40 price tag. Frankly, I don't want my money reimbursing them for rules I will never play. And the minis are not worth $40 or whatever the price point is.
BFG priced itself into irrelevance with a lower price point per cap ship.
Ghaz wrote: $39.95 is for the Assault Frigate Mk II. The fighters are $19.95 according to the pics above.
I missed the labels on the first pic when I scanned them the first time when I just got back in and just saw the second picture that was blacked by the B-wing stand that said "something Mark something Armada $39.99". It does seem a bit much for one ship, though I imagine there are a lot of dials, cards, ect. It also makes me think that there won't be as many capitol ships per side as fighters per side in X-wing so they have to sell them for more. It, of course, could also be that they know that people will buy it either way so they charge more.
A single ship is not just a painted model, it's everything you need to use it in a variety of ways.
You mean it's a single ship and a bunch of rules where two corvettes are a match for a VSD. So, it's just a single ship. And some trash.
The rules certainly aren't worth $20 of that $40 price tag. Frankly, I don't want my money reimbursing them for rules I will never play. And the minis are not worth $40 or whatever the price point is.
Bob, get, the F*** over it.
It's a starter box. Starter boxes won't be entirely balanced because it's just too small a number of ships. It's like expecting a starter box in any other game you play to be completely balanced.
Second, it's 2 smaller ships, backed up by the best space superiority fighter. Just look at the demo and see how much better the basic X-Wings are to the TIE fighter squads.
Third, it's a god damned space fantasy, and if you want to talk authenticity, there's plenty of instances where they show a small number of fighters blowing up star destroyers left and right.
Lastly, fine, you've made your post known. So go buy and play other games instead of incessant, childish whining over what amounts to toys. I mean, you keep coming back to this thread to bring the talk back to your incessant whining, then there's better things to be done with your life.
Heck, FFG and Star Wars doesn't need any defending from a nobody like me. You don't like what they're doing with it? Start your own multimillion dollar gaming company, outbid them for the license next time it's up for grabs, and do it the way you want to.
The costs for the ships don't bother me so much. I mean no one (other than MajorTom) is going to be buying all that many of them, so $40 for a second VSD isn't such an issue. It's the fighters that bother me. Not painted, tiny models, yet they're priced like everything else. That strikes me as wrong.
I understand the price issue, but holy crap some of you guys are bitter about a game that doesn't come out for at least five months. I saw everything in the flesh today at Gencon (including the surprise ships), and while I will be conservative with my purchasing when it comes out, I am still very much exited about Armada.
As long as they come with a good deal of other stuff (cards, etc) 20bucks which will then be discounted online is not bad for 8 fighter stands on 25mm bases, with what a single ship costs in X-Wing. Even unpainted.
H.B.M.C. wrote: The costs for the ships don't bother me so much. I mean no one (other than MajorTom) is going to be buying all that many of them, so $40 for a second VSD isn't such an issue. It's the fighters that bother me. Not painted, tiny models, yet they're priced like everything else. That strikes me as wrong.
Do we know the quantity of fighters per blister for sure? Them being non painted hopefully means there's more but if not then yeah I agree. "Total cost of play" is definitely more important in general than cost per model for a gamer but one does impact the other.
Is it 2 stands of each type in the fighter boxes, Aegis, to make 8 total? How is the reception at GenCon, sounds like they're getting pretty much mobbed? They certainly were when I went last year, and that was with new announcements for only one Star Wars game!
I'm not sure of the complete makeup,but everything I have heard leads me to believe it's 8 fighters which it seems likely would be split evenly. But don't quote me on it at all yet.
And yeah the display case is getting mobbed. It took me almost ten minutes to get the wife close enough to show it to her. Luckily it was just after the reveal of the additional ships so it was worth it. I really wanna demo the game, but it's hard to even get close enough to SEE the demo table because at times it was five-six ranks deep of people taking a hundred friggin' photos with their phones.
The presentation pic a page or so back shows eight stands, so that indicates to me that's how many will be in the box. That works ou to about $2.50 a stand.
$2.50 a stand seems reasonable, especially pre-discounter.
edit:
AegisGrimm wrote: Which any 40K player should see as a delightful blast from the past in pricing, lol.
Yeah it amounts to $2.50 per miniature basically? $25 for a 10 man squad from GW is a price I'm actually willing to pay - and I *did* pay recently, from a discounter the SM Strike Force came out to $24 for a 10 man tac squad which was reasonable I thought. From a discounter these will be even cheaper.
I can't wait for more ships to come out. I 'm really looking forward to some ISD's just so we can get Thrawn as a Captain of one and maybe just maybe a SSD.
I reeeaaallly hope they release a dedicated carrier so you can just run tie swarms. I want hundreds of them and I'll lovingly paint each and every one of them!
Yonan wrote: I reeeaaallly hope they release a dedicated carrier so you can just run tie swarms. I want hundreds of them and I'll lovingly paint each and every one of them!
That was my first thought as well. Some single big star destroyer variant with a ton of hanger bays.
Is a carrier even required in order to field any fighters? I think it was mentioned earlier that you have to pay points for the fighters, so they don't automatically come with the ship.
I think it's more that you can field a ship that can carry fighters like a VSD, but it doesn't automatically come with fighters. if you want to fill up some or all of its fighter complement you pay extra points to do that. For Imperials at least I imagine that's how it works as their fighters don't have hyperdrives. Rebel fighters (the ones I know of at least) all have hyperdrives so you'll no doubt be able to take them standalone. It might be the case that you don't need a carrier for them but I hope not as that's part of the whole Imperial fighter thing, needing support like that.
Imperial fighters should be limited by the amount of fighter bays they have. Imperial fighters don't have hyperdrives (aside from Avengers, Defenders and a few others), so unlike the Rebels they have to have ships that can carry fighters.
Well, they might throw in that 4 TIE carrier ship seen in the latest animations. I can see the next major ship variation being a cluster of smaller ships, too small to be their own thing. Flights of firesprays and militarized YT-XXXXs.
A group of those carrying a few flights of TIEs are an option.
The fewer YT's the better. They're over-represented, especially from a military point of view. They're freighters FFS, and most of them should remain that way.
As far as that carrier from Rebels, yeah, it's possible, but an Escort Carrier is generic enough and useful enough to fill the role for both sides.
Yeah I'm not a fan of YTs in a military setting for that reason. Smugglers sure, but up-gunning a freighter for combat is far less efficient than just getting a fighter. Escort carrier seems the best bet but there are definitely lots of options. I'm a fan of the Lancers too ; ) There's also the Star Galleon though she isn't the prettiest and she's more an armed transport I think.
Im loving the look of this. I was very concerned by the price point of the starter, and i do still think that FFG are abusing the popularity of X wing to a certain extent but the Gameplay vid has me totally sold.
With regards to the CR90s enhanced profile it is probably worth remembering that it is one of the more iconic vessels in the Star Wars universe, after all it is the very first ship we EVER saw! So im cool with a little creative licensing with its role. It will be great to see what other ships are featured as time goes on.
As for the scale of the game im not too bothered, once i saw the pricing on the core set i figured it wouldn't be mass fleet actions. Once i checked out the gameplay vid i figured out why. The gameplay mechanics are WAY too complicated and in depth to have loads of ships per side. Again, im cool with this, im sure they will work their way up to larger ships ala X wing so the ISD at about 50 quid would be ok in my eyes. I envisage games of 4-5 capital ships a side at a maximum which seems managable to me.
And with a final word to the expansion prices, yeah they are a little high i guess but there seems to be a lot more paraphernalia associated with this game than with X wing . More plastic counters, more counters in general and also more complicated accessories, bits that move and turn and not all made out of card either, i mean the fighter packs come with more than one flying base each this time for a start!. Time will tell i guess and i would have at least liked to see the core set come in at only double X wing rather than triple but hey. Star Wars is massive right now and FFG knows it.
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Surtur wrote: Is it confirmed that the fighters will be unpainted or did they just not have factory colors ready for the demo on them?
Confirmed that fighters are unpainted unfortunately. that is one bug bear i have, last thing i need is more stuff to paint!
I think it's in the official product description that squadrons will come unpainted.
And regarding TIEs not having hyperdrive, I see that Victory class SD can carry 2 squadron of TIES but in the demo there were 3 squadrons. So I think the limit of TIEs would just be their point cost.
The fighters at least do use plastic that's an appropriate base color for that faction.
For example, TIEs are in that neutral grey plastic. X-Wings are in that off-white plastic. So all it would take is a few dabs of paint, slather on some wash or ink, seal and you're set.
It might also be the case that they didn't have any other ships to show. Everything at the demo was labeled as Beta, not only that, the game isn't scheduled for release until Q1 2015, so that's a long time away.
Vertrucio wrote: The fighters at least do use plastic that's an appropriate base color for that faction.
For example, TIEs are in that neutral grey plastic. X-Wings are in that off-white plastic. So all it would take is a few dabs of paint, slather on some wash or ink, seal and you're set.
I'll paint them properly but for people who couldn't be donkeyed that's very handy, and a great idea in general.
DiabolicAl wrote: As for the scale of the game im not too bothered, once i saw the pricing on the core set i figured it wouldn't be mass fleet actions. Once i checked out the gameplay vid i figured out why. The gameplay mechanics are WAY too complicated and in depth to have loads of ships per side. Again, im cool with this, im sure they will work their way up to larger ships ala X wing so the ISD at about 50 quid would be ok in my eyes. I envisage games of 4-5 capital ships a side at a maximum which seems managable to me.
I really should watch the gameplay and not just go "oooh shiny!" 4-5 caps for standard games is ample imo. As has been said elsewhere if you want to increase the points limit go for it but the game isn't really designed for it which is perfectly fine.
Not really that concerned about the unpainted escorts. I've added details to most of my X-Wing stuff anyway and will no doubt do the same for these, and looking at the size of them it should be a very quick job.
It might also be the case that they didn't have any other ships to show. Everything at the demo was labeled as Beta, not only that, the game isn't scheduled for release until Q1 2015, so that's a long time away.
Most of this is known, but here are the highlights from yesterday's In Flight Report at GenCon.
Star Wars Armada * 2 Player game with capital ships. Releases 1Q2015 for $100 base set.
* This game is NOT X-Wing with big ships. The play is completely different. New movement stuff and lots of rules that are different.
* First Wave: All of the ships in the starters set will also be sold separately.
* Also in first wave: 2 capital ships. Rebel Assault Frigate Mark 3 and an Imperial Gladiator Star Destroyer. 2 fighter kits with 8 squadrons each. Rebels have X-wings, B-wings, Y wings, and some other stuff. Imps get more Tie Fighters, Tie Advanced, and bombers and maybe other things. Kronk can only write so fast.
Yonan wrote: $70, not bad! Gotta love online discounters ; p
I'm surprised people are just noticing the pre-orders being up. I had mine in at CoolstuffInc three days ago, and cheaper still. ;-)
That said, for how much Miniatures Market, etc.. have gotten out of me with X-wing, etc... I feel like they are just supremely confident that selling Starters at cost (or close) translates to me coming back for years buying expansions. :-p
For less than $1 more I'll go with Miniature Market. Especially since I'll be grabbing the boosters and such through them so I'll wind up with free shipping Plus I don't tend to use new companies on pre-orders, no matter their costs/shipping policies. I'm sure CoolstuffInc is good. Just haven't used them before
There's no need to pre-order now, right? Is there any benefit at all to doing so? I figure I'll keep my money (and any small amount of interest I'm getting on it, etc) and pre-order at the end of the year / within a month so of release.
RiTides wrote: There's no need to pre-order now, right? Is there any benefit at all to doing so? I figure I'll keep my money (and any small amount of interest I'm getting on it, etc) and pre-order at the end of the year / within a month so of release.
There's the "make sure you have a copy" aspect if you're concerned about insane popularity such as the sort that crippled collecting X-Wing early on due to stock shortages. However, that's not a huge concern with 6 months+ of prep time since FFG can look at pre-orders as of October/November and likely guesstimate proper supply. Still a chance but not one I see as particularly likely.
I'll probably be doing much the same, mainly because I want to see the various expansions for this and Imperial Assault and such to plot out monies.
RiTides wrote: There's no need to pre-order now, right? Is there any benefit at all to doing so? I figure I'll keep my money (and any small amount of interest I'm getting on it, etc) and pre-order at the end of the year / within a month so of release.
As Krinsath says, X-wing's early days were full of stock shortages. Apparently the pre-painted to non-garbage standard thing really puts a limit on production (or so FFG suggests). As such, if you happen to have the money there is the "ensure you won't miss out" factor.
Regarding Coolstuff... Eh.. I have no dog in that fight, and God knows i've given Miniatures Market most of my hobby money this year, but CSI has been around for a decade and just proves consistantly quicker to put up newly announced products, and always goes just a hair cheaper. I like 'em enough, and they had the pre-order up first... so they "won" in this case. :-p
H.B.M.C. wrote: The fewer YT's the better. They're over-represented, especially from a military point of view. They're freighters FFS, and most of them should remain that way.
As far as that carrier from Rebels, yeah, it's possible, but an Escort Carrier is generic enough and useful enough to fill the role for both sides.
Although... the ship they have listed as Assault Frigate III, isn't that an Assault Frigate II? Never heard of a III variant before.
Yeah, it's the Assault Frigate Mk II. They had a similar problem with the Scyk as well, calling it the Interceptor after it's role as a light interceptor.
Vertrucio wrote: The fighters at least do use plastic that's an appropriate base color for that faction.
For example, TIEs are in that neutral grey plastic. X-Wings are in that off-white plastic. So all it would take is a few dabs of paint, slather on some wash or ink, seal and you're set.
I'll paint them properly but for people who couldn't be donkeyed that's very handy, and a great idea in general.
I figure I just might use a wash to add some color and definition to them. I'm guessing they're not painted because they're too small to go through the painting process the factory uses?
Vertrucio wrote: The fighters at least do use plastic that's an appropriate base color for that faction.
For example, TIEs are in that neutral grey plastic. X-Wings are in that off-white plastic. So all it would take is a few dabs of paint, slather on some wash or ink, seal and you're set.
I'll paint them properly but for people who couldn't be donkeyed that's very handy, and a great idea in general.
I figure I just might use a wash to add some color and definition to them. I'm guessing they're not painted because they're too small to go through the painting process the factory uses?
I was thinking of doing the same, maybe with just the tiniest dabs of added color, but do we know if the models have any details that would take a wash? I mean, the wash needs to have depressions to settle into, and most of the pics we've seen make those little guys look very flat, with soft details.
I think a wash will be great for the grey imperial ships (just badab black, or the latest equivalent). I'm not as sure about the rebels but I may try the same thing.
Initially (and based on the name), I assumed this game was an attempt to recreate RotJ-sized battles (at least on one extreme end). But it looks to be more task-forced size. I'm on the fence, but the gameplay could put me over.
Fugazi wrote: Initially (and based on the name), I assumed this game was an attempt to recreate RotJ-sized battles (at least on one extreme end). But it looks to be more task-forced size. I'm on the fence, but the gameplay could put me over.
Same here. I really was hoping for a much larger model count at the tournament-size.
I think a big part of x-wing's success is that it uses 'good' pre-paints, you can be in the Star Wars universe as soon as you open the box so loads of folk who'd never build or paint a mini will buy it
For a large scale fleet game you'd end up with loads more unpainted 'tiny' ships like the fighters in this, which won't be too attractive to the mass market
(I suspect we'll eventually see the fighters from this painted too even if they cost more because there will be demand)
and since the act of painting itself has got to be a real part of the cost which won't come down by shrinking the ships (and the mould costs will only fall a bit) each small ship will be relatively more expensive, and thus look worse value when sold in the boosters
Nice find! They went with a funky angle on those B-wing mounts. I'm betting the rebel fighters will be white like the X-wings, not brown like the A/B/Y wing samples which there were only a few of.
Is it just me, or do the flight stands for the fighters seem to allow the fighters to be placed in different formations? Would these different formations have rules in-game or would it be purely for aesthetics?
H.B.M.C. wrote: Squadrons of Advanced's annoy me. They shouldn't exist!
Looking at the article for the TIE Advanced x1 you should only have a single stand maximum, and even then they should be stationed on a full-fledged Imperial Star Destroyer, not a Victory-I.
Probably because, to the casual Star Wars fan who is not well versed in the books and other games, the Defender wouldn't be as recognizable. Or, maybe the Defender isn't possible for them to make such a small version of? That would be disappointing.
H.B.M.C. wrote: The fewer YT's the better. They're over-represented, especially from a military point of view. They're freighters FFS, and most of them should remain that way.
As far as that carrier from Rebels, yeah, it's possible, but an Escort Carrier is generic enough and useful enough to fill the role for both sides.
Although... the ship they have listed as Assault Frigate III, isn't that an Assault Frigate II? Never heard of a III variant before.
Yeah, it's the Assault Frigate Mk II. They had a similar problem with the Scyk as well, calling it the Interceptor after it's role as a light interceptor.
I believe it has been officially stated that the fighters will not be painted.
There are four ways to "pre-paint" a plastic model:
1. Multi-colour injection moulding as seen in the better Gundam kits.
2. On sprue masked spraying as seen in the large scale Revell Star Wars kits.
3. After assembly spraying/drybrushing as seen in X-Wing.
4. After assembly brush painting for detail.
The fighters are so small, they would have to be done using method 4 exclusively, which naturally is the most expensive.
However when you see the fighter models, they can easily by touched up by the player using a wash and a few dabs of colour to make their detail stand out, and will look really good en masse.
So I think it is a good compromise on cost and value.
The game is shaping up like medium size WW2 battles involving carriers, planes and some battleships or cruisers.
Meanwhile, even though the squadrons in Armada aren't pre-painted like the capital ships, they are presented in colors intended to complement their fleets.
I played the demo at the FFG booth today, and I really liked what I saw.
-There is no initiative, you just activate one cap ship after the other, starting with Rebs. Fighters get activated after that, though one of the orders you can give a cap ship is to activate all fighters in a certain range at the same time as the cap ship so they go early, and different ships activate different numbers of squadrons.
-Cap ships get to fire up to twice (from 2 different facings), and then move. Range stick works pretty cool, and demonstrates inertia adequately.
-No defense dice, all caps (and ace fighters like Luke and Howlrunner) get special tokens to represent defensive systems, like "ignore all damage from one attack", halve damage from an attack", "evade", "redirect power from shields", etc. There is a simple mechanic where if you use tokens in consecutive turns without letting them rest, you "burn out" the system and it can no longer be used. Special attack results can stop a player from using defense tokens during that attack.
-Squadrons have a super short "engaged" range, but actually move quite far and have special rules per-squadron, like attacking TIE's get to reroll a die is they are attacking a target with another TIE already engaged with it. On top of that, Howlrunner gives other squadrons an extra die to roll, too.
I am definitely getting it.
Oh, and Howlrunner's a woman according to the squadron card. Did not know that!
Did they mention any balancing mechanics that kick in if say, the rebels are taking giant swarms of smaller cap ships (as will probably be the norm?)
I mean, the Imperial player could have what, 2 VSDs and 1 Gladiator SD while the rebels have 6+ corvettes. After the imperial player has taken his turn with 3 of his cap ships, the rebels could have 3 more uncontested moves.
I played the demo at the FFG booth today, and I really liked what I saw.
-There is no initiative, you just activate one cap ship after the other, starting with Rebs. Fighters get activated after that, though one of the orders you can give a cap ship is to activate all fighters in a certain range at the same time as the cap ship so they go early, and different ships activate different numbers of squadrons.
-Cap ships get to fire up to twice (from 2 different facings), and then move. Range stick works pretty cool, and demonstrates inertia adequately.
-No defense dice, all caps (and ace fighters like Luke and Howlrunner) get special tokens to represent defensive systems, like "ignore all damage from one attack", halve damage from an attack", "evade", "redirect power from shields", etc. There is a simple mechanic where if you use tokens in consecutive turns without letting them rest, you "burn out" the system and it can no longer be used. Special attack results can stop a player from using defense tokens during that attack.
-Squadrons have a super short "engaged" range, but actually move quite far and have special rules per-squadron, like attacking TIE's get to reroll a die is they are attacking a target with another TIE already engaged with it. On top of that, Howlrunner gives other squadrons an extra die to roll, too.
I am definitely getting it.
Oh, and Howlrunner's a woman according to the squadron card. Did not know that!
Vertrucio wrote: Did they mention any balancing mechanics that kick in if say, the rebels are taking giant swarms of smaller cap ships (as will probably be the norm?)
I mean, the Imperial player could have what, 2 VSDs and 1 Gladiator SD while the rebels have 6+ corvettes. After the imperial player has taken his turn with 3 of his cap ships, the rebels could have 3 more uncontested moves.
That is a balancing mechanic in itself. The Imperial ships are a lot more powerful, but slow to react, so the Imperial player must manoeuvre carefully to avoid the Rebels slipping a couple of ships in to an unprotected position from which they can deliver a severe attack.
It's a starter box. Starter boxes won't be entirely balanced because it's just too small a number of ships. It's like expecting a starter box in any other game you play to be completely balanced.
Second, it's 2 smaller ships, backed up by the best space superiority fighter. Just look at the demo and see how much better the basic X-Wings are to the TIE fighter squads.
Third, it's a god damned space fantasy, and if you want to talk authenticity, there's plenty of instances where they show a small number of fighters blowing up star destroyers left and right.
Alright. I've had some time to get over the sticker shock. However, it still offends me as much when FFG price gouges their customers as when GW does it. They are practically taunting us, "We can slap the Star Wars brand on a box, double the price, and you'll just lap it up like the salivating dogs that you are." I'm tired of being cynically priced out of games by manufacturers I've supported for years.
Besides, I'm not the only one whom you should be haranguing. Other would-have-been customers have problems because the scale has issues, the mechanics don't represent what we saw in the movies (although it might work for the jettisoned EU novels), the "armada" aspect is three ships and some fighters, the fighters aren't painted, and now the prices are just shocking. Maybe the next let down will be the one you have a problem with. Keep in mind that I was positive and 'defending' the product at first, too.
Yeah, I will probably stop paying attention to this product forever now. If they had simply posted the prices immediately, I might never have developed any interest at all and never would have posted in the first place. Kind of a dick move springing them on us like that.
Lastly, fine, you've made your post known. So go buy and play other games instead of incessant, childish whining over what amounts to toys. I mean, you keep coming back to this thread to bring the talk back to your incessant whining, then there's better things to be done with your life.
Heck, FFG and Star Wars doesn't need any defending from a nobody like me. You don't like what they're doing with it? Start your own multimillion dollar gaming company, outbid them for the license next time it's up for grabs, and do it the way you want to.
I'm guessing you've never had a problem with any company that has treated its customers in any questionable manner? Good for you.
If you think my behavior is childish, how do you explain your last sentence?
Back on topic, the box price most likely will be £75 in the UK, which is on a par with other FFG boxed games like Rune Wars and Twilight Imperium III.
You probably get less stuff in the box than in TW III, but it looks like the stuff is "better" in the sense of being complex plastic components, mostly pre-painted, and of course it is Star Wars.
Something worth mentioning from other places that have reviewed the gencon demos
All the games were being run with 2 starter sets, and a least some of those running the demos said that the game was less fun with only a single set so people my need to think of picking up a couple of starters (or equivalent extras)
Kilkrazy wrote: Back on topic, the box price most likely will be £75 in the UK, which is on a par with other FFG boxed games like Rune Wars and Twilight Imperium III.
You probably get less stuff in the box than in TW III, but it looks like the stuff is "better" in the sense of being complex plastic components, mostly pre-painted, and of course it is Star Wars.
Firestorm Games have the pre-order at £63.75, and Wayland have it at £63.99, although it's a little far out for me to place an order yet.
Price wise after using MM for a discount I'm looking around a little over $200 for the first wave that'll give me 300+pts per side. That includes the following:
That's well over 300pts per side and might be slightly cheaper (maybe the blockade runner is only $20) that the above. $200 for 2 full tournament armies isn't unreasonable to me.
Will I be more selective than I would have been had the price been about $10-$15 less on the captial ships? Yep. I won't, as someone put it, recreate the Battle of Endor but I will get enough stuff to play the game as it's what I wanted. And the small numbers aspect works with Capital ships in a way it doesn't feel right to me with fighters in X-wing.
It's been years since I read the books, but what was that lost fleet Han found in the books that had him and Chewie in? If I remember correctly they were big, bad capitol ships.
Could they be an option or have they already been thought of?
Yup that's it. It got lost because it was fully automated so one ship could control all the fleet (this and a few crazed crew members). It was the turning point for starships to use multiple droids instead of big computers.
Hulksmash wrote: Price wise after using MM for a discount I'm looking around a little over $200 for the first wave that'll give me 300+pts per side. That includes the following:
That's well over 300pts per side and might be slightly cheaper (maybe the blockade runner is only $20) that the above. $200 for 2 full tournament armies isn't unreasonable to me.
Will I be more selective than I would have been had the price been about $10-$15 less on the captial ships? Yep. I won't, as someone put it, recreate the Battle of Endor but I will get enough stuff to play the game as it's what I wanted. And the small numbers aspect works with Capital ships in a way it doesn't feel right to me with fighters in X-wing.
I reckon you need at most from three up to 10 ships per side, plus fighters. Any more than that and the table will be too crowded to make manoeuvring important. Ten might be overdoing it a bit actually. The Imperial ships seem to be worth about two Rebel ships each, though presumably that is somewhat compensated by the heavier Rebel fighters.
If you could get together with a couple of friends you could hire a community centre hall and do a larger game on the floor.
Kilkrazy wrote: If you could get together with a couple of friends you could hire a community centre hall and do a larger game on the floor.
With minis this small? That's just asking for things to get crunched.
I've done it several times to play battles like Jutland, using 1/3000 scale ship models that are no more than 2.5 inches long and 1/2 inch tall, painted dark grey.
You have to be careful not to invite clumsy people to play.
Hulksmash wrote: Price wise after using MM for a discount I'm looking around a little over $200 for the first wave that'll give me 300+pts per side. That includes the following:
Frigate was the Nebulon B not the Assault Frigate, my bad
As for not buying another starter if the pricing is accurate that's because of the unique cards that will come with the expansions. It's partially why I'm hoping I'm high on the Neb and Corvette. I'd be much happier at 15 for the corvet and 20 for the Neb. My above was worse case scenario.
I'd like to know if the expansion packs will have more of the movement rulers in them. That design seems to be aimed at stopping the secondary market from creating the slew of lasercut plastic range rulers. Also double sided chits will probably be more difficult for the laser utters as well.
There are four ways to "pre-paint" a plastic model:
3. After assembly spraying/drybrushing as seen in X-Wing.
At the In-Flight report, the CEO guy said that they paint the individual components, assemble, and then do shading/washes. The wash is the hard part and where the majority of their scrap comes from. They want the look to be just-so, he said. Overly washed minis get gak-canned.
Theophony wrote: I'd like to know if the expansion packs will have more of the movement rulers in them. That design seems to be aimed at stopping the secondary market from creating the slew of lasercut plastic range rulers. Also double sided chits will probably be more difficult for the laser utters as well.
I think FFG is probably very happy that third party suppliers are making upgrade quality materials for X-Wing.
The clicky ruler for Armada looks to me like a solution for handling drift and momentum without using a complex set of rules and measurements, which would be contrary to the design philosophy of these games. I'm sure that clicky ruler not only took some doing to design, but also bumps up the COGS of those units as you have to have a bunch of specially-designed plastic connectors instead of just a chipboard punch out.
FFG likes to fill their products with lots of 'things,' and to me Armada looks like a 'things' designer's wet dream. Stacking order disks, fighter bases with those sliding activation tabs, the clicky ruler...somebody at FFG is happy, but not because those things are harder for third party companies to manufacture.
What X-Wing player didn't buy a FFG product because they could get a fly set of neon plastic maneuver templates from Litko? Not many I should think.
Something worth mentioning from other places that have reviewed the gencon demos
All the games were being run with 2 starter sets, and a least some of those running the demos said that the game was less fun with only a single set so people my need to think of picking up a couple of starters (or equivalent extras)
The particular demo I played was two starters worth of Capitol ships, but with a single starter worth of fighters (4 x-wing, 6 TIE) spread across the battle.
The only bummer was that the guys playing the Rebs were taking absolutely FOREVER to do anything, and just about ignoring the guy running the demo at the same time, so everything took friggin' forever, so we only got about a little over two turns in after almost an HOUR.
Luckily I was wasting them and getting them a bit frustrated because I was using (and in tandem with the guy next to me) all the special rules available of the ships and TIE fighters while they just rolled dice half-heartedly and broke ships (immediately) with their ham-fists.
Because I had to stand through a demo while I waited my turn to play, I was actually showing off facets of the game to people who asked me while I was demoing, and it seemed the guy doing the demo thought it was pretty funny that I was the only one STILL not making him repeat himself and not being slow during my turn.
Yeah it was more just a frame of reference for what to expect from different online Aussie shops. iirc Combat Company has free shipping on orders over $100 so with a little padding of your order (there's always stuff we want right? ; p) it shouldn't be a problem.
Yonan, just letting you know that if they follow the format of needing hangar bays for star fighters then the A-Wing will be required to be within a hanger bay as they do not carry a hyper drive. Their the glorified formula 1 racer for the rebels, its two repeating blasters strapped to a pair of oversized engines. It was said they were massive gas hogs somewhere and were only deployed for major conflicts or when sorely needed in defense due to resource limitations.
BunkerBob wrote: Yonan, just letting you know that if they follow the format of needing hangar bays for star fighters then the A-Wing will be required to be within a hanger bay as they do not carry a hyper drive.
I've been playing Star Wars Empire at War, Sins of a Galactic Empire (SoaSE mod) and an FTL Star Was (with Captain edition) mod lately, to get into the spirit of things. Want to track down something like a Homeworld Star Wars mod next.
Well I got that half wrong, mabe I thought they had no hyper drive because of the limited hyperspace jump points. Ah well old useless information I guess.
I've been playing Star Wars Empire at War, Sins of a Galactic Empire (SoaSE mod) and an FTL Star Was (with Captain edition) mod lately, to get into the spirit of things. Want to track down something like a Homeworld Star Wars mod next.
I'm currently waiting on the Sins mod Star Wars: Ascendancy which is rumored to be released near the end of this month.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Seek out a copy of Star Wars: Rebellion (or Supremacy for our friends in the UK). If you can get over the interface it's a really fun game.
Yeah I had that game on CD, was a fantastic game. It's a shame it isn't sold digitally on sites like GOG. I lost my copy years ago and I kick myself to this day for loosing it
The Sins mods are the only alternative at this point.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Seek out a copy of Star Wars: Rebellion (or Supremacy for our friends in the UK). If you can get over the interface it's a really fun game.
Yeah I had that game on CD, was a fantastic game. It's a shame it isn't sold digitally on sites like GOG. I lost my copy years ago and I kick myself to this day for loosing it
The Sins mods are the only alternative at this point.
It's... findable. However, as a 16-bit application it won't run on most PCs nowadays, though this isn't insurmountable, it just requires Microsoft's 'XP Mode' (which is free and legal), or just make your own virtual machine and install a copy of XP onto it if available.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Seek out a copy of Star Wars: Rebellion (or Supremacy for our friends in the UK). If you can get over the interface it's a really fun game.
That was one of my favorites. Took forever to play. Blowing up gak with the Death Star was fun, but by the time you built it, you were already winning the game.
Edit: I still have my copy.
Edit 2: Sorry for the Off-Topic. Don't Ban me. HBMC started it.
What a game! I really liked the fact that if you overused the Death Star the core planets would rebel, so it didn't make it unbalanced. I hope Armada is just as fun.
It's... findable. However, as a 16-bit application it won't run on most PCs nowadays, though this isn't insurmountable, it just requires Microsoft's 'XP Mode' (which is free and legal), or just make your own virtual machine and install a copy of XP onto it if available.
It can't possibly be any harder than trying to get Chaos Gate to work!
H.B.M.C. wrote: Seek out a copy of Star Wars: Rebellion (or Supremacy for our friends in the UK). If you can get over the interface it's a really fun game.
Yeah I had that game on CD, was a fantastic game. It's a shame it isn't sold digitally on sites like GOG. I lost my copy years ago and I kick myself to this day for loosing it
The Sins mods are the only alternative at this point.
It's... findable. However, as a 16-bit application it won't run on most PCs nowadays, though this isn't insurmountable, it just requires Microsoft's 'XP Mode' (which is free and legal), or just make your own virtual machine and install a copy of XP onto it if available.
Discount Games Store put these up for preorder for $69 - 31% off until the 17th. Also Imperial Assault for the same and the Wave 6 X-Wing stuff.
Finger is on a $600 order for all 3 since I've been itching to get into X-Wing for a while. -_- Probably going to start with 3 Armada starters, doubt those ships will go astray regardless of what's released after.
Yonan wrote: Discount Games Store put these up for preorder for $69 - 31% off until the 17th. Also Imperial Assault for the same and the Wave 6 X-Wing stuff.
Finger is on a $600 order for all 3 since I've been itching to get into X-Wing for a while. -_- Probably going to start with 3 Armada starters, doubt those ships will go astray regardless of what's released after.
When are these actually released? Isn't Imperial Assault next year sometime?
Fair enough. I'll buy some when they're released. 5-8 months ahead is a little much for me for a non-KS. And DGS's service is pretty uneven these days.
I've heard a couple reports of poor book packaging that can cause damage, that's about it. Everything I've ordered has been fast and fine, what have you heard?
Rules for which game? And how have you managed to read/get hold of them?
i watched the demo.
X-wing, while being a wonderful game, is already clunky enough on the actual tabletop, despite looking good on paper, with ships, tokens, templates and people's hands all getting in each other's way and getting nudged or knocked over all the time.
This will be worse.
The bases are huge and the rules encourage everything getting into one huge clump in the middle of the table. Meaningful maneuvering will not exist after the initial approach because bases will physically obstruct each other - and players will be expected to get their hands in the middle of it somehow to turn the shield dials, too. The movement template is long and doesn't look collapsible, so you'll be knocking stuff over with the extra 8" you don't need when measuring a 2" move.
Firestorm Armada is already bad enough for overlapping with its oversized models, and that game actually encourages ships to stay more than 8" away from each other (possibly the only really clever thing about that game altogether!) and here we have all ships being at their most effective when at extremely close range - not much more than the length of one ship base!
So there you have it, from a purely physical standpoint this game will be impossible to play except on Vassal.
Then there's all its other problems, like lacking any consistent mechanics. The game looks like 6 different games bolted together. It uses one range ruler for ship movement, a different one for starfighter movement, and a third one for weapons fire. It uses dice to attack but tokens to defend. Arcs and dials for shields but a single hit point pool and damage cards for hull. I could go on. It looks like something that belongs in the 80s as far as design philosophy goes. And what for? So they can add 4kg of cardboard clutter to the 3 nice plastic models and charge $100 for it.
I say this as someone who plays X-wing every week and loves it.
Yonan wrote: I've heard a couple reports of poor book packaging that can cause damage, that's about it. Everything I've ordered has been fast and fine, what have you heard?
Haven't heard anything, but I've experienced several quite large orders shoved into baggies with no packaging/padding, resulting in broken models and sprues, crushed boxes and broken stuff inside where stuff wasn't reboxed. Also some stuff arriving late, or not at all until I chase it up with them - so receiving the stuff months late. (like a Baneblade, plus several other kits). And book damage as well. They used to send things in proper boxes and nothing would get damaged/crushed/mangled, now it's always shoved into these unpadded baggies where your order can easily get damaged. I seem to get much better service from Dan than Holly for some reason.
Damn, that's far worse than I've had. Retail boxes being dinged up but the sprues being fine is all I've had go wrong. Oh, something wasn't included twice and had to be sent separately, but they do that no fuss. They're still the cheapest legit 40k we can get I think and I can put up with a lot for cheap ; p
We can get FFG stuff at decent prices here but the cheapest I've seen Armada for here is $90 at Batal. They also have the X-Wing starter for $36, which is $27 from DGS. $44 shipping means bulk orders that way though.
Yeah, I still get new GW from them when I'm inclined, but I'm less excited to do so than I once was. Some stuff is actually cheaper or about the same locally in some circumstances (Combat Company's 20% for things like WraithKnights, Wraithguard, Imperial Knights, etc, I also use eBay and other sources these days. WAU is pretty decent sometimes.
I actually get a fair bit of FFG stuff via Book Depository. They probably won't have these games up for some time, but I'll look into it then, and hopefully DGS' discount won't have dropped by too much, and I'll pay for it then.
LN's, Interceptors, Advanceds and Bombers? I thought it was only LN's, very happy! Also 4 types for Rebs. Or is it only basic fighters in the starter? Those pics show some great detail on them too which is great, looking forward to painting them.
... I've placed my order for 3 starters and 1 for a mate hehe.
I put in my pre-order on Miniature Market to go with 2 PHR Dropzone starters. Waiting on the rest of these amazing ships to go up on pre-order to order at least 1 of each fighter pack, the assault frigate, the gladiator, another destroyer, another frigate, and another corvette. Should give me two decent fleets out the gate
And I was so sad, I thought there might be more news. But I do love those pictures.
Yonan wrote: LN's, Interceptors, Advanceds and Bombers? I thought it was only LN's, very happy! Also 4 types for Rebs. Or is it only basic fighters in the starter? Those pics show some great detail on them too which is great, looking forward to painting them.
... I've placed my order for 3 starters and 1 for a mate hehe.
The squadrons of Advanceds bug me to no end though.
I know bugger all about the Star Wars EU, but while they were very rare it seems as though they were fielded in small numbers together occasionally. "Storm Squadron had several TIE/Advanced starfighters among the ships at its disposal." for example. It probably shouldn't be represented on the tabletop and there's no real need to with all the other possible fighters though yeah.
Pretty much what I expected honestly. $190 for all the expansions. $100 for the starter. $300 all told for two fleets. Less if your just in it for one or the other. Basically $200 after discounters. Not to shabby really. Not cheap but not to bad.
Most stores got it Tuesday. My first shipment of stuff is coming today and the other (the extra fighters and gladiators) will show up on Monday/Tuesday
Yeah, our store got it yesterday, there was quite the extravaganza of buying and building last night, I think there was only one Victory, a Neb, and an Imperial fighter pack left on the shelf at closing...
So loving all the toys. Little bit disappointed in the painting of the assault frigate but I don't see myself using that one much anyway so not a huge deal. Just super excited to get a few games in with bigger fleets.
. Although I do hope a standard sized game lets you run a number of ships, even if intro games are only 2-3 per side.
. If they put out a larger Imperial (rather than Victory class) destroyer, running one of those flanked by two Victory ships would take up most of your space already, assuming you want to be able to do any maneuvers.
).
