gungo wrote: Are dedicated transports unit upgrades?
Even if they are, I don't think Taurox Primes can Deep Strike
Good thing the special rule gives it the ability to deep strike.
The rule doesn't say the new unit must deep strike.
It says the new unit is placed in ongoing reserves and the new unit arrives from deepstrike reserves.
If this is an identical unit purchase including all upgrades and weapons and models. Then having deepstriking battle cannons is extremely good.
1 scion command in a taurox prime from the formation
1 scion squad in a dedicated taurox prime transport
1 commissar inside a blob of 30+ guardsmen doing something useful like keeping them from failing morale tests.
Keep spamming special weapons and battle cannon transports until your opponent ignores it and goes after your blob.
This is the reason we need FAQs.
Don't misunderstand, I think you're wrong. It's pretty clear it's intended to only be the Scions. A Taurox, based on looking at the Codex, it doesnt SEEM to be an upgrade, it's a dedicated Transport.
** I'll add, this is just me THINKING you're wrong. I could complete be wrong, as well.
You're looking at the Astra Militarum book.
Militarum Tempestus was done in the style of all the current books, where transports can be purchased as Fast Attacks.
Since it's a "Start Collecting: Militarum Tempestus" set consisting of a Commissar, a Command Squad, a unit of Scions, and a Taurox Prime? It's blatantly obvious they intend for you to utilize the Militarum Tempestus book and not AM.
Im literally looking at my Hardcover MT Codex. Page 65, Tempestus Scions. "A Taurox (prime) may be taken as a dedicated transport."
casvalremdeikun wrote: I am waiting for the Eldar one to be something like any blessing that affects the Farseer also affects units in 12" or something absurd like that.
all psychic powers are casted on a 2+ and invisibility in a 12" bubble?
Reduced Warp Charge requirement for powers by 1 and cast on a 2+.
Cast on a 2+, Reduced warp charge req. by 1 with to a minimum of 0 & added left over warp charges to the formations toughness - c'mon, it's eldar. Don't be so hard on them.
Technically, WC0 powers could be autodenied.
Wait, wouldn't it be auto-cast? You still have to deny it with 6+ or not?
I guess it would mean you would have to roll as many 6's as your opponent threw dice since each of his dice count as a success.
Yeah it really wouldn't mean that at all. It would be auto denied because the denying player only needs as many successful rolls as the caster rolled for the spell. If there were no successful rolls, the denying player has nothing to match against. Hence auto deny.
Kanluwen wrote: The funniest part is those really should have been the rules for the damn AM formation, while the MT got the cover from their vehicle rules from the AM one.
I agree.
Send more men into the meatgrinder? Just another day in the guard.
Tactically advance, using available resources in an intelligent manner to preserve elite specialists? Scions.
Yea that would make so much sense for Imperial Guard. I'd love to see a formation where you have a 1+ platoon with some commissars and a company command. Allow the regular guardsmen to come back while the commissars, company command and platoon command are still alive. That would fit fluff so well, destroy the Guard command structure to stop the reinforcements. Or at least some formation like that not a formation that requires 170 infantry and 3 sentinels minimum.......
The commissar from the formation would probably be executed after sending multiple units of Scions into the fight that just keep dying... if he survived the fight. They're "elites" worth so much more than your basic infantryman.
Cephalobeard wrote: ....
1 scion command in a taurox prime from the formation
1 scion squad in a dedicated taurox prime transport
1 commissar inside a blob of 30+ guardsmen doing something useful like keeping them from failing morale tests.
....
.....
Militarum Tempestus was done in the style of all the current books, where transports can be purchased as Fast Attacks.
Since it's a "Start Collecting: Militarum Tempestus" set consisting of a Commissar, a Command Squad, a unit of Scions, and a Taurox Prime? It's blatantly obvious they intend for you to utilize the Militarum Tempestus book and not AM.
Harlequins have a formation (The Serpent's Brood) that lists the transports in the unit list, and then states that the Troupes must take the Starweavers in the list as DTs.
This MT formation does not say that, so take the Taurox as a separate unit. Whether the scions can also take a DT as well depends on the codex entry for them (and I expect it does).
As for which book, the AM codex does not allow for a commissar as part of the MT platoon. They can be taken as a non-FOQ HQ choice, assigned to a unit, though. But they need a CCS or PCS to get one, and the MTCS does not count for that.
DaPino wrote: Was talking with a friend about the CSM formation yesterday and I called exactly what the formation benefit was going to be.
At least it's good to know GW can't dissapoint me anymore.
P.s. GW, this is not a challenge
Sorry - what is a wrathborn?
My 2 cents would be that it is the name of the formation.
However, with the way the formation is worded, if I take this formation more than once, the Lord gives hatred to other units that are not part of his specific formation. Helbrutes and CSM that are part of other Wrathborn formation are still technically wrathborn units.
Not that it makes the formation not suck, it's still one of the shittiest start collecting formations out there.
Skinnereal wrote: Are those new Banshees in the 3rd picture? There are 3 with strange helmets, mixed in with older models.
Believe those are the old models. The rogue trader ones.
BrookM wrote:They are the most current ones, but look different probably due to the camera angle.
Somewhere in the middle:
Spoiler:
I don’t think the modern ones have the flared helm.
Those are the metal models that came before the current ones, and, by the by, I can't effing believe that GW is actually doing this. And by "this" I mean glorifying the existing, terribly aged Eldar models with a few sentimental sentences about their creative origins and some pre-existing concept art (the art is still awesome, mind you) to boost their sales since they so obviously have no intention whatsoever of giving the Eldar range the update it so desperately needs.
I'm so sorry for elder players having to make do with what's easily still the game's single most gorgeous looking model range... Sure, it sucks that GW won't do plastic Aspects, or a proper Autarch kit, and the Avatar is in the same position as 3 of the 4 "current" Greater Daemon models.
But to seriously claim that the Eldar range is in worse shape & needs attention more than CSM's?
Experiment 626 wrote: I'm so sorry for elder players having to make do with what's easily still the game's single most gorgeous looking model range... Sure, it sucks that GW won't do plastic Aspects, or a proper Autarch kit, and the Avatar is in the same position as 3 of the 4 "current" Greater Daemon models.
But to seriously claim that the Eldar range is in worse shape & needs attention more than CSM's?
The weird thing about Eldar is that they've had a huge range for a long time, and surprising chunks of their range have had very few updates over the years.
So while you have aspects with three metal and one finecast iteration (2nd, 3rd, and 4th editions), such as Banshees, Fire Dragons, Striking Scorps, Dark Reapers and Swooping Hawks, the Shining Spears and Warp Spiders have only one model. Dire Avengers had a metal, a metal/plastic hybrid kit, and the current plastics. However, none of the aspects have been updated in quite a while.
the Guardian sprue goes back to early 3rd edition, while the grav platform has had three metal generations and the current plastics. The Rangers were using 2nd models until 4th edition, while the 2nd edition Wraithguard lasted until 6th!
The Eldar have gotten a steady stream of gorgeous models, but they had, and still have, some aging sculpts.
Experiment 626 wrote: I'm so sorry for elder players having to make do with what's easily still the game's single most gorgeous looking model range... Sure, it sucks that GW won't do plastic Aspects, or a proper Autarch kit, and the Avatar is in the same position as 3 of the 4 "current" Greater Daemon models.
But to seriously claim that the Eldar range is in worse shape & needs attention more than CSM's?
Sure, obvious Troll is obvious.
No one claimed Eldar needed an update more than CSM, Just that they need an update. People are capable of thinking that multiple lines need an update. At the very least, CSM kits are multipart plastic and can kitbash with space marine and 30k kits to make something interesting. Most infantry Aspects are monopose and metal/resin. Kitbashing and converting is near impossible. Sure, you can convert Fire Dragons out of the Avengers kit and Swooping Hawks from Scourges but its extremely difficult to create passable conversions that look nice without extensive handsculpting.
Optimally, both would get updated into this decade; the Eldar have just as much a claim to a kit overhaul as CSM. To pretend otherwise is foolish
Experiment 626 wrote: I'm so sorry for elder players having to make do with what's easily still the game's single most gorgeous looking model range... Sure, it sucks that GW won't do plastic Aspects, or a proper Autarch kit, and the Avatar is in the same position as 3 of the 4 "current" Greater Daemon models.
But to seriously claim that the Eldar range is in worse shape & needs attention more than CSM's?
Sure, obvious Troll is obvious.
It's not really that trollish a statement to make. The Eldar model range generally falls into two categories - 'somewhat recently renovated' or 'older than anything else in the game'. Some of the Eldar models still in production are much older than anything in the CSM range.
Experiment 626 wrote: I'm so sorry for elder players having to make do with what's easily still the game's single most gorgeous looking model range... Sure, it sucks that GW won't do plastic Aspects, or a proper Autarch kit, and the Avatar is in the same position as 3 of the 4 "current" Greater Daemon models.
But to seriously claim that the Eldar range is in worse shape & needs attention more than CSM's?
The weird thing about Eldar is that they've had a huge range for a long time, and surprising chunks of their range have had very few updates over the years.
So while you have aspects with three metal and one finecast iteration (2nd, 3rd, and 4th editions), such as Banshees, Fire Dragons, Striking Scorps, Dark Reapers and Swooping Hawks, the Shining Spears and Warp Spiders have only one model. Dire Avengers had a metal, a metal/plastic hybrid kit, and the current plastics. However, none of the aspects have been updated in quite a while.
the Guardian sprue goes back to early 3rd edition, while the grav platform has had three metal generations and the current plastics. The Rangers were using 2nd models until 4th edition, while the 2nd edition Wraithguard lasted until 6th!
The Eldar have gotten a steady stream of gorgeous models, but they had, and still have, some aging sculpts.
Don't get me wrong, I can sympathise with Eldar players for the fact that they still have the majority of their infantry range languishing as older metal/Fineco$t kits. Meanwhile, those Shining Spears never looked that good from day 1 (and are still the old crappy 2nd ed jetbike), and barely go together properly.
But overall, despite being a bunch of 4th edition sculpts, (only Spears & Spiders are still 3rd/2nd ed), their range looks ****ing sexy!
Their basic Guardians have aged incredibly well!
But to claim that their model range is in desperate need of a re-do/overhaul?! Sure, maybe to modern plastics. Is it a top level priority? Feth no! CSM's get that honour, and that's only because Sisters of Bitter aren't a mainstream army!
I mean, if we're talking about purely the overall age of the model line, then outside of 4-5 kits, our entire range is early/mid 2000's, and Berserkers aren't even from the current millennium! (well, Guardians are in the same boat, but at least they don't have fists larger than their damn heads!)
Experiment 626 wrote: I'm so sorry for elder players having to make do with what's easily still the game's single most gorgeous looking model range... Sure, it sucks that GW won't do plastic Aspects, or a proper Autarch kit, and the Avatar is in the same position as 3 of the 4 "current" Greater Daemon models.
But to seriously claim that the Eldar range is in worse shape & needs attention more than CSM's?
The weird thing about Eldar is that they've had a huge range for a long time, and surprising chunks of their range have had very few updates over the years.
So while you have aspects with three metal and one finecast iteration (2nd, 3rd, and 4th editions), such as Banshees, Fire Dragons, Striking Scorps, Dark Reapers and Swooping Hawks, the Shining Spears and Warp Spiders have only one model. Dire Avengers had a metal, a metal/plastic hybrid kit, and the current plastics. However, none of the aspects have been updated in quite a while.
the Guardian sprue goes back to early 3rd edition, while the grav platform has had three metal generations and the current plastics. The Rangers were using 2nd models until 4th edition, while the 2nd edition Wraithguard lasted until 6th!
The Eldar have gotten a steady stream of gorgeous models, but they had, and still have, some aging sculpts.
Don't get me wrong, I can sympathise with Eldar players for the fact that they still have the majority of their infantry range languishing as older metal/Fineco$t kits. Meanwhile, those Shining Spears never looked that good from day 1 (and are still the old crappy 2nd ed jetbike), and barely go together properly.
But overall, despite being a bunch of 4th edition sculpts, (only Spears & Spiders are still 3rd/2nd ed), their range looks ****ing sexy!
Their basic Guardians have aged incredibly well!
But to claim that their model range is in desperate need of a re-do/overhaul?! Sure, maybe to modern plastics. Is it a top level priority? Feth no! CSM's get that honour, and that's only because Sisters of Bitter aren't a mainstream army!
I mean, if we're talking about purely the overall age of the model line, then outside of 4-5 kits, our entire range is early/mid 2000's, and Berserkers aren't even from the current millennium! (well, Guardians are in the same boat, but at least they don't have fists larger than their damn heads!)
Some of the models still on sale for the Eldar now could be found in the Citadel Black Catalogue back in 1993. Another significant chunk were released in 1997/1998.
Trust me, nobody is winning a 'who has the oldest models' contest with the Eldar. Their range is the Two Face of model lines - half looks fairly shiny and new, the other half is extremely old and decrepit.
CSM, on the other hand, is mostly stuck in the uncanny valley of either very uninspiring newer stuff, or stuff that's just old enough to look tired but not cool or iconic.
Then you have Heretics like me who think that, with the possible exception of the plastic Dire Avengers, none of the updated Aspects are actually better than the early 90s metal originals.
Stormtroopers got an updated line before CSM and Eldar.
Was it akin to the much loved models of before? Was it an amazing plastic cast release for bulk purchases of Kasrkin and Inquisitional Stormtrooper models? No, but I take my victories where I can.
I plan on making a converted Stormtrooper army using Sicarian Rustalker torsos (cut down) and the stormtrooper everything else (cut down to magazines instead of cords and exclusively using the masked-beret head). So I do like the models, just not the breastplate part.
Experiment 626 wrote: I'm so sorry for elder players having to make do with what's easily still the game's single most gorgeous looking model range... Sure, it sucks that GW won't do plastic Aspects, or a proper Autarch kit, and the Avatar is in the same position as 3 of the 4 "current" Greater Daemon models.
But to seriously claim that the Eldar range is in worse shape & needs attention more than CSM's?
Sure, obvious Troll is obvious.
I wasn't trolling, and I wasn't saying that Eldar need the update MORE than any other faction, rather that they do need one. On top of that, CSM ARE getting an update of sorts in the near future (tsons, magnus and what not), whereas the picture of the article above is all about GW saying: "Just look how happy we are with the Eldar range, and we haven't got the slightest intention of changing it for years and years to come!"
There are two problems I have with this: the most characterful eldar units (read aspects and phoenix lords) are either ages old sculpts or in finecast, whereas they should be the centerpieces of an Eldar army- the rest of the range is woefully bland when compared to the aspects (even CSM have more characterful units with newer sculpts than Eldar: cultists, chosen, hellbrutes, -fiends, helldrakes- all much more interesting than guardians, guardians in/on different vehicles, wraith constructs which in turn look like bigger and skinnier guardians)
And the second: making all this fuss about Eldar in the WD with no intention of updating any part of their range.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: I just plan to use Krieg models myself. Still not sure if trying to convert the Taurox is worth it or if I just find an acceptable substitute.
I use Razorbacks at the moment, since they are decently cheap on Ebay, so that is an option. You'd probably want to order some Taurox turrets for them though.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: I just plan to use Krieg models myself. Still not sure if trying to convert the Taurox is worth it or if I just find an acceptable substitute.
I use Razorbacks at the moment, since they are decently cheap on Ebay, so that is an option. You'd probably want to order some Taurox turrets for them though.
Since the Rhino chassis is a ubiquitous design, having the IG use it like the SMs do make sense. Lots of guardsmen probably drove them before joining the Guard.
I can't read the prices, but I imagine if they're anything like the Knight starter kit it's going to be basically the price of 1 to 1.5 flyers for both.
Unfortunately, you get 2 factions. Which is great if you and a buddy play factions that are both in the set, or you happen to collect both, but otherwise might be a tough sell.
The Bangles set is of little use to me. Ball Predators are garbage and I already have Karlaen. I still might get it though. $85 for a tank, tactical squad, and a character is a fair price. Who knows, maybe they will make tanks sucks less.
The lopsided savings make it a little rough to split the box. Stormtallons are $55 to the Heldrake’s $74. And I don’t see mention of parts to make the new flyer. As a marine player, not a lot to make me want to pick this up.
For okr/eldar players, their birds are $65 each. So splitting it makes a lot more sense. Not sure if the new ork parts are in there, which would be a minus for them. Eldar just have the one kit.
If the tau/necron box is the same price, it’s the worst deal. A ^65 and $45 kit each.
The BA box actually looks like fun. Tac squad, Baal, TDA captain.
casvalremdeikun wrote: The Bangles set is of little use to me. Ball Predators are garbage and I already have Karlaen. I still might get it though. $85 for a tank, tactical squad, and a character is a fair price. Who knows, maybe they will make tanks sucks less.
Well, a BAtac squad in a rhino is going to set you back $80 anyway. $5 gets you the parts to make a pred and a captain.
This would've been an awesome opportunity to do a plastic Thunderbolt or Lightning kit, but nope, the Imperial Navy doesn't exist in 40k these days outside of flying transports.
casvalremdeikun wrote: The Bangles set is of little use to me. Ball Predators are garbage and I already have Karlaen. I still might get it though. $85 for a tank, tactical squad, and a character is a fair price. Who knows, maybe they will make tanks sucks less.
Well, a BAtac squad in a rhino is going to set you back $80 anyway. $5 gets you the parts to make a pred and a captain.
Naw, I will probably still build the Baal Predator. BAs are bound to get something good for them eventually. I will need to figure out what to do with Karlaen since I already have him. I am going to combine the BA Tactical Squad, a BA upgrade kit, and a vanilla Tactical Squad to make two Tactical squads. That will give me a total of three.
BrookM wrote: This would've been an awesome opportunity to do a plastic Thunderbolt or Lightning kit, but nope, the Imperial Navy doesn't exist in 40k these days outside of flying transports.
Never say never, Brook!
I think we really are headed to a new edition with updated books, given that all we've been getting of late seems to be Formation heavy books that don't really have points values within them. Just formation listings.
casvalremdeikun wrote: The Bangles set is of little use to me. Ball Predators are garbage and I already have Karlaen. I still might get it though. $85 for a tank, tactical squad, and a character is a fair price. Who knows, maybe they will make tanks sucks less.
Well, a BAtac squad in a rhino is going to set you back $80 anyway. $5 gets you the parts to make a pred and a captain.
Exactly what I was thinking. You get an HQ, Tac Squad and Rhino chasis with options for $85 - less on line.
casvalremdeikun wrote: The Bangles set is of little use to me. Ball Predators are garbage and I already have Karlaen. I still might get it though. $85 for a tank, tactical squad, and a character is a fair price. Who knows, maybe they will make tanks sucks less.
Well, a BAtac squad in a rhino is going to set you back $80 anyway. $5 gets you the parts to make a pred and a captain.
Exactly what I was thinking. You get an HQ, Tac Squad and Rhino chasis with options for $85 - less on line.
Great deal for Marines.
Especially when the Baal Predator's sprues have loads stuff to really make the Rhino look unique. One could even make a makeshift TL Assault Cannon Razorback.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Kanluwen wrote: Plus you get a formation that doesn't exist yet elsewhere, so...that's cool.
it says it makes them fight harder. Probably grants them Rage for a turn or something dumb.
I really like the box art for the flyer bundles oddly enough. Usually don't like the "models on cover" look, but these look kinda fun with the lasers and explosions.
gungo wrote: So what start collecting 40k box is left (not harlequins)?
If Skitarii can get one, Harlequin can as well.
Other than Harlequin though,we're missing a Dark Angels, Grey Knights, Khorne Daemonkin, any flavor of Daemons(the boxes that exist now have rules strictly for AoS), and Cult Mechanicus from what has plastic ranges.
Add in Sororitas and Inquisition if we just count off armies that don't have one.
If the 1K sons can take the Heldrake and these sets are still available when there released I'll probably get the faith and heresy box.
I'm surprised GW didn't try for a Imperium faction in every set. Baring new kits or repeats the only matchup left is DE vs SW/DA/IG
Kanluwen wrote: Plus you get a formation that doesn't exist yet elsewhere, so...that's cool.
it says it makes them fight harder. Probably grants them Rage for a turn or something dumb.
Well, there's no possible way that the BA formation can be worse than what CSM's got shafted with...
Hatred with a range restriction AND no possible way to get any of those units into assaults besides walking into the teeth of the enemy's guns? Oh well, at least it saves 1pt/model I guess!?
Maybe the BA formation will give the Predator the Scout rule back, like it had in the 5th ed codex iirc?!
Kanluwen wrote: Plus you get a formation that doesn't exist yet elsewhere, so...that's cool.
it says it makes them fight harder. Probably grants them Rage for a turn or something dumb.
Well, there's no possible way that the BA formation can be worse than what CSM's got shafted with...
Hatred with a range restriction AND no possible way to get any of those units into assaults besides walking into the teeth of the enemy's guns? Oh well, at least it saves 1pt/model I guess!?
Maybe the BA formation will give the Predator the Scout rule back, like it had in the 5th ed codex iirc?!
Requizen wrote: DA, GK, Harlies will probably get one. KDK I'm not sure about, but possibly.
Daemons have Fantasy get started boxes, but no 40k rules with them. At least, Khorne and Nurgle have them.
Sisters and Inquisition... probably not.
Dunno about Cult Mechanicus. Their HQ is in the Skitarii box, who knows what'll happen there.
I wouldn't be surprised to see maybe a slew for GK's, DA's & Tzeentch Daemons come the fall/closer to fall since we still have WZ: Fenris part 2, and all three feature pretty heavily.
I'd rather honestly not see a Khornekin one, unless it's say 'Letters + Raptors/Possessed + Hellbrute/Fiend.
Last thing we need is either another crappy Marines + Lord set, or god forbid, Berserkers rearing their fugly '99 hamburger fists of doom in a beginner box!
Spiritfox22 wrote: Has anyone got any info as to the rules the Dark Eldar Start collection box is going to have? If so what are your opinions on it?
Blatant attempt to get this away from others complaining about chaos getting shafted unlike the "normal marines"
Considering the box doesn't even go up for pre-order until tomorrow, we'll probably have to wait until sometime next week before we get proper photos of the Eldar/Dark Eldar formations.
Sinful Hero wrote: I really like the box art for the flyer bundles oddly enough. Usually don't like the "models on cover" look, but these look kinda fun with the lasers and explosions.
Sinful Hero wrote: I really like the box art for the flyer bundles oddly enough. Usually don't like the "models on cover" look, but these look kinda fun with the lasers and explosions.
It's a nice "back to the roots" sort of thing.
It's what they did back around 4th edition right? I seem to remember the Tyranid Warrior's Deathspitter blowing out a wave of gunk.
So why are the Necrons fighting the Tau and why are the Eldar fighting Orks? I know that there is nothing un-fluffy about either of those matchups, but wouldn't I make more sense to have Eldar v. Necrons and Tau v. Orks?
EnTyme wrote: So why are the Necrons fighting the Tau and why are the Eldar fighting Orks? I know that there is nothing un-fluffy about either of those matchups, but wouldn't I make more sense to have Eldar v. Necrons and Tau v. Orks?
The cynical part of me wants to sat sales.
Necron and eldar flyers are generally good. Tau and Ork are more “meh” from what I hear. Mixing the good and the bad will help sales of all the boxes, to prevent some just rotting on the shelf.
EnTyme wrote: So why are the Necrons fighting the Tau and why are the Eldar fighting Orks? I know that there is nothing un-fluffy about either of those matchups, but wouldn't I make more sense to have Eldar v. Necrons and Tau v. Orks?
EnTyme wrote: So why are the Necrons fighting the Tau and why are the Eldar fighting Orks? I know that there is nothing un-fluffy about either of those matchups, but wouldn't I make more sense to have Eldar v. Necrons and Tau v. Orks?
The cynical part of me wants to sat sales.
Necron and eldar flyers are generally good. Tau and Ork are more “meh” from what I hear. Mixing the good and the bad will help sales of all the boxes, to prevent some just rotting on the shelf.
You're probably right, but can you imagine how many Necrons v. Eldar kits they would sell? I'd probably have to buy at least two of them.
Sinful Hero wrote: I really like the box art for the flyer bundles oddly enough. Usually don't like the "models on cover" look, but these look kinda fun with the lasers and explosions.
It's a nice "back to the roots" sort of thing.
It's what they did back around 4th edition right? I seem to remember the Tyranid Warrior's Deathspitter blowing out a wave of gunk.
There was a long period when all of GW's boxed sets would come with an amazing piece of cover art showing off the model(s) contained within. While the current boutique look of the boxed sets shows you what's inside, it doesn't really engage the imagination as much as those action packed pieces of art.
This clearly shows you that gak is going down between those two flyers or those two Knights.
Kanluwen wrote: Plus you get a formation that doesn't exist yet elsewhere, so...that's cool.
it says it makes them fight harder. Probably grants them Rage for a turn or something dumb.
Well, there's no possible way that the BA formation can be worse than what CSM's got shafted with...
Hatred with a range restriction AND no possible way to get any of those units into assaults besides walking into the teeth of the enemy's guns? Oh well, at least it saves 1pt/model I guess!?
Maybe the BA formation will give the Predator the Scout rule back, like it had in the 5th ed codex iirc?!
Do you ever stop?
We'll see. I don't have high hopes on either of those things.
They're always a standard sprue set, so if the standard sprues for a Baal Predator includes other variants, than yes. If variants have an add-on sprue, then unlikely. (Also applies for the flyer sets)
If only it was Orks vs Space Marines... I don't place Chaos Space Marines anymore because of how bad they are so I have no need for a Heldrake and I don't play Eldar.
Ah well. If the minigame within is any good and replayable enough I might buy one of the 2 sets still.
The new game looks cool and more start collecting sets are always nice but that is 6 weeks now without any new miniatures (boxes don't count). The result of that top down review that rowntree said he would do seems to be thinking of new ways to sell existing miniatures. That is a good idea but I want to see something completely new!
Its terrible how much they slowed down the release this year. Especially considering that there is so much of the range that needs to be either redone or converted into plastic.
I wonder what the motivation behind the slowdown with new sculpts is. It's generally accepted that new models are usually in the pipeline for some time before they get released, so there must be models waiting to be released.
So what gives? Clearing out older stock first? We've seen a few things go out of stock and not be replaced.
there have been a bunch of boardgames with multiple new sprues in,
they've got to be produced at some point, and if the factory is spitting them out, they're not spitting out something else, so I suspect the lull is a hangover from the Silver Tower which they clearly produced loads of
Orlando is correct, of course. There's been tons of new models if you care to count the boardgames - and especially if you consider them to be equal part boardgame and equal part (or more, as many do) miniature bundle delivery system.
I'm fine with a less frenzied release schedule, quite frankly.
Azazelx wrote: Orlando is correct, of course. There's been tons of new models if you care to count the boardgames - and especially if you consider them to be equal part boardgame and equal part (or more, as many do) miniature bundle delivery system.
I'm fine with a less frenzied release schedule, quite frankly.
I've no problem with it at all, in fact I think a steadier schedule is likely better. I was just curious as to what the reasoning could be. You're both right of course, there was a lot of new stuff in Warhammer Quest, Deathwatch, and Calth.
Requizen wrote: DA, GK, Harlies will probably get one. KDK I'm not sure about, but possibly.
Daemons have Fantasy get started boxes, but no 40k rules with them. At least, Khorne and Nurgle have them.
Sisters and Inquisition... probably not.
Dunno about Cult Mechanicus. Their HQ is in the Skitarii box, who knows what'll happen there.
Oooh. I could possibly go for a Harlies one.
The best part of a harlie starter would be if they got a small formation to go with it so can have them as allies without fielding minimum 3 troupe squads. I got some harlies a while ago, but has no meaningful way to field them (must go unbound) because the base formations are to cumbersome, and the really small one is basicly just the old harlie unit from eldar codex but dont even fit in a transport Id like to see 2 bikes, a transport and a troupe + formation for that, but expect them to throw in a blister model as per usual.
Hm, actually, a formation without the psycher would suck, so ad that to my wishlist. Thanks.
Requizen wrote: DA, GK, Harlies will probably get one. KDK I'm not sure about, but possibly.
Daemons have Fantasy get started boxes, but no 40k rules with them. At least, Khorne and Nurgle have them.
Sisters and Inquisition... probably not.
Dunno about Cult Mechanicus. Their HQ is in the Skitarii box, who knows what'll happen there.
Oooh. I could possibly go for a Harlies one.
The best part of a harlie starter would be if they got a small formation to go with it so can have them as allies without fielding minimum 3 troupe squads. I got some harlies a while ago, but has no meaningful way to field them (must go unbound) because the base formations are to cumbersome, and the really small one is basicly just the old harlie unit from eldar codex but dont even fit in a transport Id like to see 2 bikes, a transport and a troupe + formation for that, but expect them to throw in a blister model as per usual.
Hm, actually, a formation without the psycher would suck, so ad that to my wishlist. Thanks.
Small point, but the Troupe in the Cegorach's Jest formation can always take a Starweaver as a dedicated transport. I wish it could take a Shadowseer too though.
I have to mention, I do like these 'Start Collecting!' -boxes. It's how they should do business - sell a vanilla core army as a reasonably priced army box, then let the players expand with the regular single unit boxes.
prowla wrote: I have to mention, I do like these 'Start Collecting!' -boxes. It's how they should do business - sell a vanilla core army as a reasonably priced army box, then let the players expand with the regular single unit boxes.
Yeah I think it's great. Make the core rules available free online, and it would make it really easy to get into the hobby.
prowla wrote: I have to mention, I do like these 'Start Collecting!' -boxes. It's how they should do business - sell a vanilla core army as a reasonably priced army box, then let the players expand with the regular single unit boxes.
Yeah I think it's great. Make the core rules available free online, and it would make it really easy to get into the hobby.
Uriels_Flame wrote: I cant imagine GK getting a collecting box. They dont have enough different units as it is. 24" of force death!
DA are mostly about the wings which they do have sets for already.
How about more 30k starter sets?
I can't see 30k getting started sets, at least not legion specific plastic stuff. They won't want to dilute the waters too much, or take business away from FW. Dark Angels could get a starter set easily enough, though they kind of have the whole Dark Vengeance thing going on. Grey Knights could do it at a push too, a squad of power armour dudes and a razorback, with a terminator HQ could fill it out easy enough.
The only problem I see with GK getting a start collecting box is that they don't have a plastic clampack hero, which all the other kits so far have had (or in terms of guard/CSM/SW, a multi-part character set.) BA and DA are bound to come sometime soon, though. For BA, could imagine the terminator lord, a tac or DC squad and a dread. For DA, I presume it'll be a chaplain, a tac squad and a landspeeder vengeance.
nudibranch wrote: The only problem I see with GK getting a start collecting box is that they don't have a plastic clampack hero, which all the other kits so far have had (or in terms of guard/CSM/SW, a multi-part character set.) BA and DA are bound to come sometime soon, though. For BA, could imagine the terminator lord, a tac or DC squad and a dread. For DA, I presume it'll be a chaplain, a tac squad and a landspeeder vengeance.
Blood Angels are Terminator Captain, Tac squad and Baal predator. Already seen the photos.
nudibranch wrote: The only problem I see with GK getting a start collecting box is that they don't have a plastic clampack hero, which all the other kits so far have had (or in terms of guard/CSM/SW, a multi-part character set.) BA and DA are bound to come sometime soon, though. For BA, could imagine the terminator lord, a tac or DC squad and a dread. For DA, I presume it'll be a chaplain, a tac squad and a landspeeder vengeance.
Well, the plastic clampack terminator librarian is listed as a Grey Knight HQ (although, you have to do some minor conversions to really make it fit in as a Grey Knight. What self-respecting Grey Knight would use a storm bolter IN THEIR HAND? Absurd.)
nudibranch wrote: The only problem I see with GK getting a start collecting box is that they don't have a plastic clampack hero, which all the other kits so far have had (or in terms of guard/CSM/SW, a multi-part character set.) BA and DA are bound to come sometime soon, though. For BA, could imagine the terminator lord, a tac or DC squad and a dread. For DA, I presume it'll be a chaplain, a tac squad and a landspeeder vengeance.
Well, the plastic clampack terminator librarian is listed as a Grey Knight HQ (although, you have to do some minor conversions to really make it fit in as a Grey Knight. What self-respecting Grey Knight would use a storm bolter IN THEIR HAND? Absurd.)
Just cut off the base, move the ammunition feed and magazines to the side, and attach the hand that doesn't have a Storm bolter. Win win.
nudibranch wrote: The only problem I see with GK getting a start collecting box is that they don't have a plastic clampack hero, which all the other kits so far have had (or in terms of guard/CSM/SW, a multi-part character set.) BA and DA are bound to come sometime soon, though. For BA, could imagine the terminator lord, a tac or DC squad and a dread. For DA, I presume it'll be a chaplain, a tac squad and a landspeeder vengeance.
Well, the plastic clampack terminator librarian is listed as a Grey Knight HQ (although, you have to do some minor conversions to really make it fit in as a Grey Knight. What self-respecting Grey Knight would use a storm bolter IN THEIR HAND? Absurd.)
Grey Knights could easily get a box with;
- Termie Librarian
- 5x Terminators
- Venerable Dreadnought
Or else they could just as easily do a set with the Libby + 5x Termies + 5x Interceptors, and give them a formation rule revolving around better Deep Strike shenanigans?!
casvalremdeikun wrote: GK are fairly simple to do. I think if they did a Dread Knight it would be for the best. Iconic vehicles seem to be a theme.
Personally I hope they don't put the Dreadknight into the SC! kit for them, because then I almost certainly wouldn't be able to resist picking one up! (and I really need to save up for Fenris Part II and the rumor-promised 'year of Chaos' supposedly coming next year!)
Actually, is there anywhere that's compiled the formation benefits for each of currently released Start Collecting sets?
It'd be interesting to see & compare all these sets...
casvalremdeikun wrote: GK are fairly simple to do. I think if they did a Dread Knight it would be for the best. Iconic vehicles seem to be a theme.
Personally I hope they don't put the Dreadknight into the SC! kit for them, because then I almost certainly wouldn't be able to resist picking one up! (and I really need to save up for Fenris Part II and the rumor-promised 'year of Chaos' supposedly coming next year!)
Actually, is there anywhere that's compiled the formation benefits for each of currently released Start Collecting sets?
It'd be interesting to see & compare all these sets...
Well, a Dreadknight is about in the right price for one of these sets. A Terminator Librarian, a squad of Terminators, and a Dreadknight is about equal to the Blood Angels set. I think a Strike Squad (10-man) is more likely though.
Anyone else feel at this point like the GW philosophy for chaos is not only to make the rules completely underwhelming in terms of viability and power compared to other formations but also to make them as un-inspired as possible? MT got a fun "without numbers" ruling, it's totally unique too, necron got one aswell. Nids got the gargoyle re-deployment (which is fun regardless of power level). Tau got a re-positioning power for their FW and space marines get 2 shooting phases.
Chaos got a USR (and an arguably not very good one) bubble shoe-horned in. It's just... boring. No tactics to it, no strategy. Just run at your opponent and hope they don't shoot you to death before you get there (and with marines 2 shooting phases+overwatch that is likely), then hope you don't fail a charge roll... I'm not a power gamer, not by a long shot, I take lists I know are very underpowered because they seem like they'd be fun to play. Plain and simple, nothing coming from chaos has been fun or fluffy for a long time. I feel at this point un-inspired is probably the best way to describe chaos marines and the rules they've been receiving.
On another note I'm curious to see what a DA and SW start collecting box would consist of. BA getting the Baal pred was refreshing to see over another dreadnaught.
On another note I'm curious to see what a DA and SW start collecting box would consist of. BA getting the Baal pred was refreshing to see over another dreadnaught.
Space Wolves already have one. Comes with 10 Greyhunters, 3 Thunderwolf Cavalry, and Space Marine captain / "Wolf lord". Rules for it are pretty nice too, be within 12 inches of the lord and the two units can run and charge or reroll 1's in the shooting phase and both units can choose what one they want.
And yes it specifies. The only thing you'd really need to buy after that is a Drop pod.
On another note I'm curious to see what a DA and SW start collecting box would consist of. BA getting the Baal pred was refreshing to see over another dreadnaught.
Space Wolves already have one. Comes with 10 Greyhunters, 3 Thunderwolf Cavalry, and Space Marine captain / "Wolf lord". Rules for it are pretty nice too, be within 12 inches of the lord and the two units can run and charge or reroll 1's in the shooting phase and both units can choose what one they want.
And yes it specifies. The only thing you'd really need to buy after that is a Drop pod.
The SM Commander kit is the perfect kit to include in and of the standard Marine kits (not GK because the armor mark is different). It is a shame only one came with it (thought SW can work with it pretty well).
The regular C:SM kit is functional for DA. The Captain is can make a Company Master easy enough. The Tactical Kit is just fine for DA Greenwing Tacticals. The Venerable Dreadnought kit is perfect. It can made into a Deathwing Dreadnought or even a plain Greenwing Dreadnought. Unfortunately, it doesn't have anything Ravenwing. But otherwise it works well enough. Heck, buy a DW Upgrade kit and you are set.
Inevitable_Faith wrote: Anyone else feel at this point like the GW philosophy for chaos is not only to make the rules completely underwhelming in terms of viability and power compared to other formations but also to make them as un-inspired as possible? MT got a fun "without numbers" ruling, it's totally unique too, necron got one aswell. Nids got the gargoyle re-deployment (which is fun regardless of power level). Tau got a re-positioning power for their FW and space marines get 2 shooting phases.
Chaos got a USR (and an arguably not very good one) bubble shoe-horned in. It's just... boring. No tactics to it, no strategy. Just run at your opponent and hope they don't shoot you to death before you get there (and with marines 2 shooting phases+overwatch that is likely), then hope you don't fail a charge roll... I'm not a power gamer, not by a long shot, I take lists I know are very underpowered because they seem like they'd be fun to play. Plain and simple, nothing coming from chaos has been fun or fluffy for a long time. I feel at this point un-inspired is probably the best way to describe chaos marines and the rules they've been receiving.
Yep, the running 'theme' of Chaos Marines at this point is to be nothing more than a bunch of inept, mustache twirling NCP villains who exist solely to be bolter fodder for Little Timmy's much more manly Speesh Muhreens.
I've been a dedicated Chaos player since the beginning of 3rd edition, and in all that time, we've had exactly ONE really 'good' codex. (the fabled 3.5ed)
Other than that brief period from late 3rd through early 4th ed, we've routinely been a joke army.
On another note I'm curious to see what a DA and SW start collecting box would consist of. BA getting the Baal pred was refreshing to see over another dreadnaught.
Space Wolves already have one. Comes with 10 Greyhunters, 3 Thunderwolf Cavalry, and Space Marine captain / "Wolf lord". Rules for it are pretty nice too, be within 12 inches of the lord and the two units can run and charge or reroll 1's in the shooting phase and both units can choose what one they want.
And yes it specifies. The only thing you'd really need to buy after that is a Drop pod.
Ah I totally missed that! That's a really cool kit and the formation bonus is not too shabby either. I love that it comes with wolf cav.
Experiment 626 wrote:
Inevitable_Faith wrote: Anyone else feel at this point like the GW philosophy for chaos is not only to make the rules completely underwhelming in terms of viability and power compared to other formations but also to make them as un-inspired as possible? MT got a fun "without numbers" ruling, it's totally unique too, necron got one aswell. Nids got the gargoyle re-deployment (which is fun regardless of power level). Tau got a re-positioning power for their FW and space marines get 2 shooting phases.
Chaos got a USR (and an arguably not very good one) bubble shoe-horned in. It's just... boring. No tactics to it, no strategy. Just run at your opponent and hope they don't shoot you to death before you get there (and with marines 2 shooting phases+overwatch that is likely), then hope you don't fail a charge roll... I'm not a power gamer, not by a long shot, I take lists I know are very underpowered because they seem like they'd be fun to play. Plain and simple, nothing coming from chaos has been fun or fluffy for a long time. I feel at this point un-inspired is probably the best way to describe chaos marines and the rules they've been receiving.
Yep, the running 'theme' of Chaos Marines at this point is to be nothing more than a bunch of inept, mustache twirling NCP villains who exist solely to be bolter fodder for Little Timmy's much more manly Speesh Muhreens.
I've been a dedicated Chaos player since the beginning of 3rd edition, and in all that time, we've had exactly ONE really 'good' codex. (the fabled 3.5ed)
Other than that brief period from late 3rd through early 4th ed, we've routinely been a joke army.
At least we've got Daemons going for us though.
Yeah chaos was my first army over 10 years ago. It saddens me to see them on the shelf for so long now but weak rules or not GW managed to suck the life out of the army, it has no personality anymore. It doesn't help I wasn't a fan of the dino-bots directions they took either. It's a shame that GW doesn't seem to realize there are living breathing humans playing the chaos army. Does GW assume because we play an "evil" army that we just want to show up and play the bad guy so the "good guy" armies can prove once again that "justice always prevails" or something like that?
So what would you guys have preferred to see in the chaos Get started box? Which units and what formation rule would have gotten you excited for it?
On another note I'm curious to see what a DA and SW start collecting box would consist of. BA getting the Baal pred was refreshing to see over another dreadnaught.
Space Wolves already have one. Comes with 10 Greyhunters, 3 Thunderwolf Cavalry, and Space Marine captain / "Wolf lord". Rules for it are pretty nice too, be within 12 inches of the lord and the two units can run and charge or reroll 1's in the shooting phase and both units can choose what one they want.
And yes it specifies. The only thing you'd really need to buy after that is a Drop pod.
The SM Commander kit is the perfect kit to include in and of the standard Marine kits (not GK because the armor mark is different). It is a shame only one came with it (thought SW can work with it pretty well).
It's also a shame that the GS:SW box is currently the only way you get get the kit as it seems to be 'No Longer Available'.
On another note I'm curious to see what a DA and SW start collecting box would consist of. BA getting the Baal pred was refreshing to see over another dreadnaught.
Space Wolves already have one. Comes with 10 Greyhunters, 3 Thunderwolf Cavalry, and Space Marine captain / "Wolf lord". Rules for it are pretty nice too, be within 12 inches of the lord and the two units can run and charge or reroll 1's in the shooting phase and both units can choose what one they want.
And yes it specifies. The only thing you'd really need to buy after that is a Drop pod.
The SM Commander kit is the perfect kit to include in and of the standard Marine kits (not GK because the armor mark is different). It is a shame only one came with it (thought SW can work with it pretty well).
It's also a shame that the GS:SW box is currently the only way you get get the kit as it seems to be 'No Longer Available'.
There is one left at the GW store I frequent, I should pick it up. It is a great kit. It was great way to make my Captain Aphael for my Blood Angels and it was my first HQ for my Crimson Fists (he has been through several rebuilds though).
I suppose I could change the weapons on Karlaen out, give him a new head. But I am probably going to offload him on eBay.
Inevitable_Faith wrote: Anyone else feel at this point like the GW philosophy for chaos is not only to make the rules completely underwhelming in terms of viability and power compared to other formations but also to make them as un-inspired as possible? MT got a fun "without numbers" ruling, it's totally unique too, necron got one aswell. Nids got the gargoyle re-deployment (which is fun regardless of power level). Tau got a re-positioning power for their FW and space marines get 2 shooting phases.
Chaos got a USR (and an arguably not very good one) bubble shoe-horned in. It's just... boring. No tactics to it, no strategy. Just run at your opponent and hope they don't shoot you to death before you get there (and with marines 2 shooting phases+overwatch that is likely), then hope you don't fail a charge roll... I'm not a power gamer, not by a long shot, I take lists I know are very underpowered because they seem like they'd be fun to play. Plain and simple, nothing coming from chaos has been fun or fluffy for a long time. I feel at this point un-inspired is probably the best way to describe chaos marines and the rules they've been receiving.
Yep, the running 'theme' of Chaos Marines at this point is to be nothing more than a bunch of inept, mustache twirling NCP villains who exist solely to be bolter fodder for Little Timmy's much more manly Speesh Muhreens.
I've been a dedicated Chaos player since the beginning of 3rd edition, and in all that time, we've had exactly ONE really 'good' codex. (the fabled 3.5ed)
Other than that brief period from late 3rd through early 4th ed, we've routinely been a joke army.
At least we've got Daemons going for us though.
Yeah chaos was my first army over 10 years ago. It saddens me to see them on the shelf for so long now but weak rules or not GW managed to suck the life out of the army, it has no personality anymore. It doesn't help I wasn't a fan of the dino-bots directions they took either. It's a shame that GW doesn't seem to realize there are living breathing humans playing the chaos army. Does GW assume because we play an "evil" army that we just want to show up and play the bad guy so the "good guy" armies can prove once again that "justice always prevails" or something like that?
What's infuriating is that we had Legion rules at one point, and +2S power swords, and massive amounts of flexibility & wargear/gifts for our characters, etc, etc... And then GW took every last ounce of character from us under the premise that it was both, "too complicated" AND more importantly, "too over powering".
And then they turn around and give those Loyalist scum everything they took from us, but suddenly decided that it was now "balanced" and all with the purpose of better representing the individuality & background of Loyalists.
And now they just don't even try anymore... Anything unique we've had, GW finds a way to shoehorn 10x better versions of into each new Muhreen codex. (*cough*centurions*cough*)
Inevitable_Faith wrote: So what would you guys have preferred to see in the chaos Get started box? Which units and what formation rule would have gotten you excited for it?
Personally I wish they'd have just waited the 3 freaking months until Fenris Part II!
They could have easily opened up the second half of the campaign with the new plastic Thousand Sons, then 3-4 weeks later, put up the pre-orders for a Start Collecting set that could have been;
- Termie Sorc
- 5x Thousand Sons
- 10x Cultists
- Helbrute
Give them a formation rule that let's the Sorcerer 'sacrifice' Cultists for +1WC dice per Cultist removed, once per phase. (ie: The Sorc wants to cast a WC2 power, the Chaos player uses 2 of his normally generated dice, and then 'sacrifices' 2 Cultists to add +2 'free' dice to his casting attempt!)
Of course the Sorc would be required to join the Cultist squad for the ability to work, but it'd be fluffy as hell, and fun to boot. (and brings back something similar to the old 3.5ed Thrall Wizards that Tzeentch sorcerers could readily sacrifice for more power!)
Or else just do a box that's;
- Aspiring Champion
- 5x Possessed
- 10x Cultists
- Fiend
Give 'em a formation rule that let's the Aspiring Champ sacrifice Cultists to effect repairs to any damage the Fiend has suffered?!
Or make it a Maulerfiend, and give a rule that'd allow both the Possessed & Fiend to buff each other, such as Fleet & no enemy Overwatch if they both assault the same target!?
@626 this is not the thread to keep complaining about how Chaos Space Marines get shafted. Yes we understand they're a very underpowered army and you want things back to 3.5 where they could curbstomp just about everything. For the love of whatever you believe in just MAKE A THREAD and discuss it over there.
Back on topic of this thread
Honestly I cant wait to see what the rules for the Dark Eldar and Blood Angels Starter boxes come with. Hopefully the DE get something akin to move shoot move or quite frankly something to pack a punch in armor. Blood Angels however I'm betting they'll get Rage or something stupid to "Show their bloodthristy nature"
If DA get a Start Collecting box I'm going to bet it will focus on either Ravenwing or Deathwing entirely. GK's probably a Libarian, Strike squad, and Dreadknight.
Dark Eldar probably get something stupid like 'everything cause Fear' if GW is just phoning theirs in... Otherwise, maybe Scout on everything or some kind of Deep Strike shenanigans?
Long shot would be some kind of boost to their Splinter weaponry or boosted FnP.
BA's could get Scout back on their Baal Pred... or maybe it gets to double-shoot ala Vanilla formation's Dreadnought. (which would be 'effing terrifying!)
Even strait Rage would be decent, as +2A on the charge + their basic +1S Furious Charge bonus means even basic Tacticals can start doing more than just bullying the likes of Guardsmen & Tau. (would make a Drop Pod a no-brainer add-on/next purchase too!)
If/when GK's get one, they'll probably get something that buffs a Dreadknight or the (likely) Librarian's psychic potential.
Experiment 626 wrote: Dark Eldar probably get something stupid like 'everything cause Fear' if GW is just phoning theirs in... Otherwise, maybe Scout on everything or some kind of Deep Strike shenanigans?
Long shot would be some kind of boost to their Splinter weaponry or boosted FnP.
BA's could get Scout back on their Baal Pred... or maybe it gets to double-shoot ala Vanilla formation's Dreadnought. (which would be 'effing terrifying!)
Even strait Rage would be decent, as +2A on the charge + their basic +1S Furious Charge bonus means even basic Tacticals can start doing more than just bullying the likes of Guardsmen & Tau. (would make a Drop Pod a no-brainer add-on/next purchase too!)
If/when GK's get one, they'll probably get something that buffs a Dreadknight or the (likely) Librarian's psychic potential.
I am more hoping that the DE lets the Kabalites shot at full BS out of the Raider since that was taken from them. BA is probably going to do nothing to the Baal Pred. Rage or +1WS is probably all the Tacticals will get.
Experiment 626 wrote: Dark Eldar probably get something stupid like 'everything cause Fear' if GW is just phoning theirs in... Otherwise, maybe Scout on everything or some kind of Deep Strike shenanigans?
Long shot would be some kind of boost to their Splinter weaponry or boosted FnP.
BA's could get Scout back on their Baal Pred... or maybe it gets to double-shoot ala Vanilla formation's Dreadnought. (which would be 'effing terrifying!)
Even strait Rage would be decent, as +2A on the charge + their basic +1S Furious Charge bonus means even basic Tacticals can start doing more than just bullying the likes of Guardsmen & Tau. (would make a Drop Pod a no-brainer add-on/next purchase too!)
If/when GK's get one, they'll probably get something that buffs a Dreadknight or the (likely) Librarian's psychic potential.
Huge shot in the dark but I could see something like if the Librarian in the formation casts Force then all other models from the formation within 12" also get force.
Hopefully the dark eldar one is interesting and not just more silly fear or minus leadership gak.
I wouldn't be surprised if the Dark Angels got a Ravenwing Bike Squad (not the Black Knights, the regular bikes), a Deathwing Command Squad (to make regular Termies), and the clampack Interrogator Chaplain. Then again, it could be the Black Knights kit instead. I dunno.
ZergSmasher wrote: I wouldn't be surprised if the Dark Angels got a Ravenwing Bike Squad (not the Black Knights, the regular bikes), a Deathwing Command Squad (to make regular Termies), and the clampack Interrogator Chaplain. Then again, it could be the Black Knights kit instead. I dunno.
So far, they haven't passed up any opportunity to include the basic Troops choice of any of the Space Marine armies. DA would have to have a Tactical Squad. I really don't see any need to release one for DA given that the regular SM one works just fine. BA don't have Venerable Dreadnoughts, so it doesn't work. I think DA will get one, but it is less necessary.
Experiment 626 wrote: Dark Eldar probably get something stupid like 'everything cause Fear' if GW is just phoning theirs in... Otherwise, maybe Scout on everything or some kind of Deep Strike shenanigans?
Long shot would be some kind of boost to their Splinter weaponry or boosted FnP.
BA's could get Scout back on their Baal Pred... or maybe it gets to double-shoot ala Vanilla formation's Dreadnought. (which would be 'effing terrifying!)
Even strait Rage would be decent, as +2A on the charge + their basic +1S Furious Charge bonus means even basic Tacticals can start doing more than just bullying the likes of Guardsmen & Tau. (would make a Drop Pod a no-brainer add-on/next purchase too!)
If/when GK's get one, they'll probably get something that buffs a Dreadknight or the (likely) Librarian's psychic potential.
I am more hoping that the DE lets the Kabalites shot at full BS out of the Raider since that was taken from them. BA is probably going to do nothing to the Baal Pred. Rage or +1WS is probably all the Tacticals will get.
Well apparently, the BA formation is called a 'Carmine Host', "in which the Captain urges his battle-brothers to fight harder in Sanguinius' name."
(info via B&C here: http://i.imgur.com/Ybosmxg.jpg?1 )
So knowing that, maybe +1A for everyone near/in the same squad as the Captain? Maybe if BA players are lucky, +1A & Relentless?
Inevitable_Faith wrote: Does GW assume because we play an "evil" army that we just want to show up and play the bad guy so the "good guy" armies can prove once again that "justice always prevails" or something like that?
Experiment 626 wrote: Dark Eldar probably get something stupid like 'everything cause Fear' if GW is just phoning theirs in... Otherwise, maybe Scout on everything or some kind of Deep Strike shenanigans?
Long shot would be some kind of boost to their Splinter weaponry or boosted FnP.
BA's could get Scout back on their Baal Pred... or maybe it gets to double-shoot ala Vanilla formation's Dreadnought. (which would be 'effing terrifying!)
Even strait Rage would be decent, as +2A on the charge + their basic +1S Furious Charge bonus means even basic Tacticals can start doing more than just bullying the likes of Guardsmen & Tau. (would make a Drop Pod a no-brainer add-on/next purchase too!)
If/when GK's get one, they'll probably get something that buffs a Dreadknight or the (likely) Librarian's psychic potential.
I am more hoping that the DE lets the Kabalites shot at full BS out of the Raider since that was taken from them. BA is probably going to do nothing to the Baal Pred. Rage or +1WS is probably all the Tacticals will get.
Well apparently, the BA formation is called a 'Carmine Host', "in which the Captain urges his battle-brothers to fight harder in Sanguinius' name."
(info via B&C here: http://i.imgur.com/Ybosmxg.jpg?1 )
So knowing that, maybe +1A for everyone near/in the same squad as the Captain? Maybe if BA players are lucky, +1A & Relentless?
That would basically turn the Tactical Squad into Death Company. That would be kinda cool, though out of place. It wouldn't do anything for the poor Baal Predator though. If this does something to boost a Baal Predator, I am running two of these formations (I have the contents of this one already, but I could certainly get a second). Baal Predators do need a boost. Besides the Necron formation, all of the Start Collecting formations seem to include all of the models somehow.
ProbabLy going to reroll failed leadership tests, just to give the Blood Angel players an extra kick in the ribs. :p
Maybe it will be something decent, like any model within 12" of the captain makes an extra shot? So the Basl would drop two flamer templates from the main gun, bolters rapid firing would fire three shots, etc.
If DA get a Start Collecting box I'm going to bet it will focus on either Ravenwing or Deathwing entirely. GK's probably a Libarian, Strike squad, and Dreadknight.
Hopefully if they did Dark Angels, it would be all Deathwing like you suggested and have a rule that if there is nothing on the table they don't auto loose as long as this formation is in reserves.
I would love to see a Deathwing Start Collecting set. There is already the Battle force (which would probably be discontinued if theyou released a SC) for Ravenwing. Deathwing with a DW Command Squad, Terminator Librarian, and a Venerable Dreadnought would be kinda cool. Definitely needs Turn 1 Deep Strike capability.
I just don't want to see a Ravenwing Start Collecting. The other portions of the DA need some focus. Deathwing especially
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Crazyterran wrote: ProbabLy going to reroll failed leadership tests, just to give the Blood Angel players an extra kick in the ribs. :p
Maybe it will be something decent, like any model within 12" of the captain makes an extra shot? So the Basl would drop two flamer templates from the main gun, bolters rapid firing would fire three shots, etc.
I would love to see the ability to shoot double, but the C:SM bundle already has that. Maybe something like the old True Grit rule would be a good choice.
Judging by the brief description from the WD advert, BA's will probably have some kind of close combat/assault phase bonus...
Mind you, double-shooting the Baal Pred with twin-linked asscan + 2x heavy b's would be near-instant death to most non-elite infantry/bikes/cav! (8 re-rolling S6/ap4 Rending + 12 S5/ap4 per turn? Gak, even T4/2+ or T5/3+ saves will melt to that!)
Experiment 626 wrote: Judging by the brief description from the WD advert, BA's will probably have some kind of close combat/assault phase bonus...
Mind you, double-shooting the Baal Pred with twin-linked asscan + 2x heavy b's would be near-instant death to most non-elite infantry/bikes/cav! (8 re-rolling S6/ap4 Rending + 12 S5/ap4 per turn? Gak, even T4/2+ or T5/3+ saves will melt to that!)
if there is something like that, I would rework my army to have two of these formations. Baal Predators would be insane. As it stands, I agree, it will be some sort of assault phase boost. Probably nothing too good though.
You know, just switching gears for a second, but can I just say again what an amazing deal the Start Collecting boxes have been, and how much of a good sign I take them as being?
I wanted a couple more Crisis Suits, and another box of Fire Warriors... so what do I do? Pop in an order for my third Start-Collecting box, and boom, between the in-built discount, and my favorite online retailers break, I end up getting the Fire Warriors essentially for free, along with the Crisis Suits at a discount over MSRP. Amazing.
I miss the older one, with 6 generic bikes, an attack bike, and a land speeder. I bought like 3 of those things to build up my bike force.
Depends on what they want to do with the DA getting started, but I could see one that was say 10 DA marines (built as a 5 man tac unit and 5 man vet unit) the plastic Int Chaplain, and then the Land Speeder Vengeance.
MajorWesJanson wrote: I miss the older one, with 6 generic bikes, an attack bike, and a land speeder. I bought like 3 of those things to build up my bike force.
Depends on what they want to do with the DA getting started, but I could see one that was say 10 DA marines (built as a 5 man tac unit and 5 man vet unit) the plastic Int Chaplain, and then the Land Speeder Vengeance.
You mean the bike army primer? Yeah, I am pissed I missed that one. By the time I realized what I was missing it was gone. But Crimson Fists have nothing to gain from Bikes. I would have made a different army if I had known bikes were so good. A blue WS successor like the Dark Hunters, maybe.
MajorWesJanson wrote: I miss the older one, with 6 generic bikes, an attack bike, and a land speeder. I bought like 3 of those things to build up my bike force.
Depends on what they want to do with the DA getting started, but I could see one that was say 10 DA marines (built as a 5 man tac unit and 5 man vet unit) the plastic Int Chaplain, and then the Land Speeder Vengeance.
That set was like the second thing I ever bought for my 40k collection (after the paint set with 5 DA tactical marines). It can still be found on eBay for varying prices. The only problem, and it's relatively minor, is the fact that the set includes the older-style hard-as-feth-to-assemble Land Speeder kit. That thing gave me fits, especially being relatively new to the whole painting and modelling thing.
Last week "pointy ears" hint was just a reference to a nicely painted Dark Eldar army presented in the WD. Next to that the Ace system in the WD is a 35pts upgrade for any flyer, with a roll on a table for 3 possible results. Similar to the first time it popped up in the old Crusade of Fire book IIRC, but there are rolls for the FMC armies, I'm not sure if that was the case before.
I go from memory here, so mistakes may be made:
- Eldars/Dark Eldars use the same table so that the glorious Craftworlders no longer have to acknowledge their lowly pale peasants cousins as a real independent army!
- SM and BA roll on different tables, yet I'm pretty sure they actually are the same. But it's okay, they needed to fill space and it's not like another army could have used it.
- There is a table for "other factions" so if such a thing as a SoB flyer exist you know where to roll.
Tables results I remember:
- Nids (Automatically succeed instinctive behavior or +3" to synapse range / +1W / if within 12" of a board edge, can go into ongoing reserves at the beginning of the enemy shooting phase before any shots are fired)
- Daemons (reroll vector strikes that failed to wound or penetrate / +1 W IIRC / +1 invulnerable save compatible with other upgrades)
- CSM (+1 BS / reroll vector strikes like daemons / units within 12" have... relentless I think? Amusingly while I know the rules in English I sometime have no idea what a rule in my own language is...)
A lot of the tables have +1 BS as their first result. IG/MT can roll a +1 AV to their front armor for some AV13 goodness, Orks also can so that you can upgrade from paper plane to cardboard plane!
Next week hints talk about war in the mortal realms so probably AoS.[i]
Last week "pointy ears" hint was just a reference to a nicely painted Dark Eldar army presented in the WD. Next to that the Ace system in the WD is a 35pts upgrade for any flyer, with a roll on a table for 3 possible results. Similar to the first time it popped up in the old Crusade of Fire book IIRC, but there are rolls for the FMC armies, I'm not sure if that was the case before.
I go from memory here, so mistakes may be made:
- Eldars/Dark Eldars use the same table so that the glorious Craftworlders no longer have to acknowledge their lowly pale peasants cousins as a real independent army!
- SM and BA roll on different tables, yet I'm pretty sure they actually are the same. But it's okay, they needed to fill space and it's not like another army could have used it.
- There is a table for "other factions" so if such a thing as a SoB flyer exist you know where to roll.
Tables results I remember:
- Nids (Automatically succeed instinctive behavior or +3" to synapse range / +1W / if within 12" of a board edge, can go into ongoing reserves at the beginning of the enemy shooting phase before any shots are fired)
- Daemons (reroll vector strikes that failed to wound or penetrate / +1 W IIRC / +1 invulnerable save compatible with other upgrades)
- CSM (+1 BS / reroll vector strikes like daemons / units within 12" have... relentless I think? Amusingly while I know the rules in English I sometime have no idea what a rule in my own language is...)
A lot of the tables have +1 BS as their first result. IG/MT can roll a +1 AV to their front armor for some AV13 goodness, Orks also can so that you can upgrade from paper plane to cardboard plane!
Next week hints talk about war in the mortal realms so probably AoS.[i]
So, random upgrades for flyers?
Just a reprint of the Fighter Ace tables from the Leviathan campaign book.
The Dark Angels Battleforce box has been "no longer availbe" for a few weeks here in the UK. it was a good kit but had its problems. The marketing on the side of the box listed the Command squad as a HQ choice and as Trading standards trump codex rules it was always a problem and my local shop let me know about the error each time I bought one. Although you could asemble the landspeeder as a SableClaw so it did have an HQ option in the box.
My bet on what we will see in the Ravenwing/Dark Angle Start Collecting box will be:
1x Lanspeeder * *The lanspeeder will be set-up like SableClaw but may have options for typhoon.
3x Black Knights
I am counting on nothing good for the boys in red anytime soon. At least nothing that fixes or at least addresses any of their problems.
Because it's not like your Dreadnoughts just got fixed, which is more than can be said for the poor Ork & Chaos ones...
...and odds are BA's will get their FAQ well before any other 'bottom feeder', and will almost certainly get their WS/BS3 Scouts & lack of Grav cannon crutches taken care of.
I mean, I'm betting that BA's will almost certainly have the most lackluster formation of any of the Loyalist armies, but it's not like you're going to be worse than what CSM's got hosed with.
As for what's still missing?
Uh, Chaos Daemons anyone?! Sure there's a box for (surprise, surprise!) Khorne & Nurgle (because the other don't exist according to GW), but there's no 40k rules in either one.
And considering how inflexible our main formations from CotW turned out, it would be nice to get at least one formation that doesn't require 6-9 units, or 1000+ pts of the game's worst MC's to field!
Spotted online (no picture, just text, so grain of salt)
Craftworld Eldar:
If the Farseer has LOS to a unit, the Fire Prism gets TL against that unit.
Dark Eldar:
If the Archon has LOS to a unit, the Kabalites get Preferred Enemy against that unit.
Not the worst things in the world, not earth shattering by any means but not awful. I was hoping for something cool for the reaver jetbikes, but at least now there's a formation of some sort for Kabalites.
Why would BA get Grav Cannons? Didn't Grav Cannons exist before the new BA cidex and they chose it to include them?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
the_scotsman wrote: Spotted online (no picture, just text, so grain of salt)
Craftworld Eldar:
If the Farseer has LOS to a unit, the Fire Prism gets TL against that unit.
Dark Eldar:
If the Archon has LOS to a unit, the Kabalites get Preferred Enemy against that unit.
Not the worst things in the world, not earth shattering by any means but not awful. I was hoping for something cool for the reaver jetbikes, but at least now there's a formation of some sort for Kabalites.
I've seen the pic, it's true. DE formation is wrong though, the whole formation gets PE not just the Kabalites.
Because it's not like your Dreadnoughts just got fixed, which is more than can be said for the poor Ork & Chaos ones...
...and odds are BA's will get their FAQ well before any other 'bottom feeder', and will almost certainly get their WS/BS3 Scouts & lack of Grav cannon crutches taken care of.
Blood Angels won't get Grav Cannons in the FAQ. Rarely if ever does GW add something like that in an FAQ.
Mymearan wrote: Why would BA get Grav Cannons? Didn't Grav Cannons exist before the new BA cidex and they chose it to include them?
No they didn't...
Codex Blood Angels released in 2014, while the 'new' plastic Devs & Assault Marine kits did not come until 2015 and the new Vanilla codex.
Likewise, I'd fully expect for BA's to gain access to Eviscerators for their Assault Squads.
Because it's not like your Dreadnoughts just got fixed, which is more than can be said for the poor Ork & Chaos ones...
...and odds are BA's will get their FAQ well before any other 'bottom feeder', and will almost certainly get their WS/BS3 Scouts & lack of Grav cannon crutches taken care of.
Blood Angels won't get Grav Cannons in the FAQ. Rarely if ever does GW add something like that in an FAQ.
Maybe the WS/BS 4 for scouts.
BA's are codex Chapter with some bits of added 'flair', just like Dark Angels.
As DA's got Grav cannons, it makes absolutely 0 sense for a Chapter that's even more codex compliant than they are, to suddenly not receive them. It's not the BA's fault that new generic kits dropped for them almost a year *after* their book released.
It's not like the Space Wolf situation, where GW decided to actively keep them from even using basic Grav guns. (since really, Hellfrost weaponry should be their special snowflake 'instead of grav' option!)
BA's have basic Grav guns and Grav pistols. They should definitely receive the cannon in their FAQ.
Those rules are pretty nifty, and I like how they follow the same pattern for each of them: If HQ can see it, get bonuses. Seems appropriate the two Eldar factions would get a similar rule.
Y'know, I'd find it extremely funny if the Blood Angels' continued mistreatment by GW turns out to be some impressively subtle foreshadowing of them turning to Chaos in 40k's End Times.
Imagine, the noble sons of Sanguinius, bogged down by centuries of crappy rules, finally snapping and turning on their fellow Space Marines...
...only to find themselves at the level of Chaos Space Marines, whose rules are even worse.
I disagree. Archon needs to be mobile to get a lot of targets, or be static in a really high location.
At least with the Craftworlds one the Farseer is fast enough to find lots of targets. 6" ain't going to get a lot of targets (they also get twin-linked through splinter racks).
Frozocrone wrote: I disagree. Archon needs to be mobile to get a lot of targets, or be static in a really high location.
At least with the Craftworlds one the Farseer is fast enough to find lots of targets. 6" ain't going to get a lot of targets (they also get twin-linked through splinter racks).
Take a minimum unit of Warriors in the Raider, and have the Archon join them. Doesn't say it has to be a 10 man squad.
Frozocrone wrote: I disagree. Archon needs to be mobile to get a lot of targets, or be static in a really high location.
At least with the Craftworlds one the Farseer is fast enough to find lots of targets. 6" ain't going to get a lot of targets (they also get twin-linked through splinter racks).
The Archon can take a Venom as a Dedicated Transport.
Frozocrone wrote: I disagree. Archon needs to be mobile to get a lot of targets, or be static in a really high location.
At least with the Craftworlds one the Farseer is fast enough to find lots of targets. 6" ain't going to get a lot of targets (they also get twin-linked through splinter racks).
The Archon can take a Venom as a Dedicated Transport.
But he has to get out of it in a prior turn to be able to draw LOS and pick a preferred enemy unit.
adamsouza wrote: Well I guess the Baal(Rhino) is more useful than the dread in the Space Marines Start Collecting box.
Absolutely. One could build it as a Rhino, a Razorback (using the turret as a TLASC Razorback turret), or the many variations of of the Baal Predator. Unfortunately, the Captain isn't as good as the SC Space Marines box. I am still picking one up in spite of already having Karlaen.
Frozocrone wrote: I disagree. Archon needs to be mobile to get a lot of targets, or be static in a really high location.
At least with the Craftworlds one the Farseer is fast enough to find lots of targets. 6" ain't going to get a lot of targets (they also get twin-linked through splinter racks).
The Archon can take a Venom as a Dedicated Transport.
But he has to get out of it in a prior turn to be able to draw LOS and pick a preferred enemy unit.
Not really? Venom is an open-topped transport. If the Archon can shoot freely from the inside (which he can, obviously), he can draw LOS, ergo, grant the bonus to his fellow Kabalites.
The Fire Prism is a great tank, and giving it twin-linked is actually fixing its biggest problem IMO. It's a very versatile gun and now it's S9 AP1 lance shot will actually probably hit, which always seemed to be the hard part for me.
Frozocrone wrote: I disagree. Archon needs to be mobile to get a lot of targets, or be static in a really high location.
At least with the Craftworlds one the Farseer is fast enough to find lots of targets. 6" ain't going to get a lot of targets (they also get twin-linked through splinter racks).
The Archon can take a Venom as a Dedicated Transport.
But he has to get out of it in a prior turn to be able to draw LOS and pick a preferred enemy unit.
Not really? Venom is an open-topped transport. If the Archon can shoot freely from the inside (which he can, obviously), he can draw LOS, ergo, grant the bonus to his fellow Kabalites.
(Being devil's advocate here)
GW said in their faq that, for all intents and purposes, a unit is not on the battlefield if it's inside a transport. Thus causing you to not be able to draw LOS. Very rules lawyer-y I know, but just saying because you know if I don't someone else will.
Frozocrone wrote: I disagree. Archon needs to be mobile to get a lot of targets, or be static in a really high location.
At least with the Craftworlds one the Farseer is fast enough to find lots of targets. 6" ain't going to get a lot of targets (they also get twin-linked through splinter racks).
The Archon can take a Venom as a Dedicated Transport.
But he has to get out of it in a prior turn to be able to draw LOS and pick a preferred enemy unit.
Not really? Venom is an open-topped transport. If the Archon can shoot freely from the inside (which he can, obviously), he can draw LOS, ergo, grant the bonus to his fellow Kabalites.
SickSix wrote: Why should BA get everything C:SM gets? C:SM doesn't get everything BA get!
I tell you what, when my Salamanders can take Baal Predators your BA can have Grav.
Right now BA are more Flamey than Salamanders. What sense does that make? Flamer tanks, heavy flamers in Tac squads, hand flamers and meltas.
Get over it.
I don't think they should have everything that C:SM get. Perhaps some things, but not all. I think the flyers would be appropriate, since Blood Angels pilots are supposed to be the ace pilots among the Space Marines. The flak tanks aren't as much of an issue. BA don't need Thunderfire Cannons, they have other anti-infantry platforms.
Frozocrone wrote: I disagree. Archon needs to be mobile to get a lot of targets, or be static in a really high location.
At least with the Craftworlds one the Farseer is fast enough to find lots of targets. 6" ain't going to get a lot of targets (they also get twin-linked through splinter racks).
Take a minimum unit of Warriors in the Raider, and have the Archon join them. Doesn't say it has to be a 10 man squad.
SarisKhan wrote:The Archon can take a Venom as a Dedicated Transport.
Which leads to the argument of 'is it really on the battlefield?'. Should be clarified and hopefully will be when the DEFAQs roll around officially (because this formation wasn't out when they asked the questions). Just give HQs a Jetbike or Hellion Board or something. It's disheartening that the so called fastest Eldar can't move further than 6".
casvalremdeikun wrote:
SickSix wrote: Why should BA get everything C:SM gets? C:SM doesn't get everything BA get!
I tell you what, when my Salamanders can take Baal Predators your BA can have Grav.
Right now BA are more Flamey than Salamanders. What sense does that make? Flamer tanks, heavy flamers in Tac squads, hand flamers and meltas.
Get over it.
I don't think they should have everything that C:SM get. Perhaps some things, but not all. I think the flyers would be appropriate, since Blood Angels pilots are supposed to be the ace pilots among the Space Marines. The flak tanks aren't as much of an issue. BA don't need Thunderfire Cannons, they have other anti-infantry platforms.
Salamanders should just get chapter tactics to allow this, sort of like FW Fire Hawk. Not take the unique units that BA have. I'll be damned if you even considering taking Fast Predators.
Salamanders can take the Infernus Pattern Predator. It is better in practically every way than the Baal Predator. Salamanders can quit their bitching. And they can take Grav Cannons in their Tacticals and Devastators, Blood Angels can do neither.
I am really surprised at how tame the Eldar formation is. Yes, TL the stupid Fire Prism is pretty potent, but they honestly could have done a lot worse.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Yeah, could've given the whole formation Fear.
It could have gone in either direction. I was kind of surprised it didn't give everything near the Farseer Rending. Just to make Scatterbikes the definitive version of Windriders.
1) The Kabbies do not have to be a 10 man squad, and
2) the raider is separate, not a mandatory DT.
So you're free to take your raider as a taxi for some allies, run the kabbies as 5-man with a blaster in a venom, and then grab a second venom for the archon himself, and both of those get folded into the formation benefits with their sweet double splinter cannon loadouts.
Then, you take 6 reavers with 2 cluster caltrops for a unit that can threaten and kill most stuff and you're absolutely golden.
Which leads to the argument of 'is it really on the battlefield?'. Should be clarified and hopefully will be when the DEFAQs roll around officially (because this formation wasn't out when they asked the questions). Just give HQs a Jetbike or Hellion Board or something. It's disheartening that the so called fastest Eldar can't move further than 6".
No it doesn't?
Look, to shoot a target you need to be able to draw LOS to it, right?
And the venom or raider the archon is in is open-topped, which means he can shoot from any point on the vehicle.
Which means he can draw line of sight from any point on the vehicle...or else he couldn't shoot.
1) The Kabbies do not have to be a 10 man squad, and
2) the raider is separate, not a mandatory DT.
So you're free to take your raider as a taxi for some allies, run the kabbies as 5-man with a blaster in a venom, and then grab a second venom for the archon himself, and both of those get folded into the formation benefits with their sweet double splinter cannon loadouts.
Then, you take 6 reavers with 2 cluster caltrops for a unit that can threaten and kill most stuff and you're absolutely golden.
Which leads to the argument of 'is it really on the battlefield?'. Should be clarified and hopefully will be when the DEFAQs roll around officially (because this formation wasn't out when they asked the questions). Just give HQs a Jetbike or Hellion Board or something. It's disheartening that the so called fastest Eldar can't move further than 6".
No it doesn't?
Look, to shoot a target you need to be able to draw LOS to it, right?
And the venom or raider the archon is in is open-topped, which means he can shoot from any point on the vehicle.
Which means he can draw line of sight from any point on the vehicle...or else he couldn't shoot.
From GW Facebook page:
When a unit embarks on a vehicle it is taken off the battlefield and does not interact with anything on the battlefield. However, certain rules may create exceptions to this rule, with the most obvious examples being Fire Points and psychic powers and Transports. If a unit’s rules are meant to apply even when embarked on a Transport, they will specify this.
So he can draw Line of Sight for shooting and fire weapons as per the rules allowing it.not for giving PE to the Kabalite Warriors.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Yeah, could've given the whole formation Fear.
It could have gone in either direction. I was kind of surprised it didn't give everything near the Farseer Rending. Just to make Scatterbikes the definitive version of Windriders.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Yeah, could've given the whole formation Fear.
It could have gone in either direction. I was kind of surprised it didn't give everything near the Farseer Rending. Just to make Scatterbikes the definitive version of Windriders.
Nevelon wrote: I like the Eldar formation rules. You get a nice perk for taking an oft neglected unit. But nothing game breaking.
It’s the level I think formations should be scaled at.
IMHO, YMMV, etc.
It's a balanced formation given that Fire Prisms (and non-superheavy vehicles in general) aren't that good right now. It's a boost to a unit that could use some help and the "tax" is a good unit. So, it comes out to being pretty solid. Not one that is insta-take in Eldar lists, but if you were thinking of taking a Fire Prism or were trying to get another Farseer and/or unit of bikes, it's a good choice.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Yeah, could've given the whole formation Fear.
It could have gone in either direction. I was kind of surprised it didn't give everything near the Farseer Rending. Just to make Scatterbikes the definitive version of Windriders.
Bladestorm, remember?
He was trying to make the point that some players (including myself) still like the Shuricannon upgrade because of Bladestorm (rending lite). Some don't consider the Scatter laser the "auto-pick" for Windriders. But if the formation gave them Rending, suddenly there would be no point in the Shuricannon.
I am super glad the Eldar formation does noting to improve the bikes as they are already good. I love Fire Prisms and this formation might make me start fielding one again, although I am not sure ir's worth giving up Obsec on the bikes.
The Dark Eldar formation is good even if you get all technical and try to deny the Archons ability if embarked. Simply being able to add Reavers and Trueborn (as upgrades to the Warriors) to an army without needing a Troop tax is good.
Rending would also make the Scatter Lasers reliably be able to shave hull points off of all armor values. It would take away the one weakness of Scatter Lasers. I am glad they went with a buff on the Fire Prism. It needed it. The bikes and jetseer do not.
Experiment 626 wrote: So now that the BA set is out, is there any word yet on what their Start Collecting! formation actually does?
When not under night fighting conditions all infantry units in this formation cause all enemy units (and all models with faction: Space Wolves) within 12" to take a blind test.
Even if it was FNP for the entire game it would be lackluster since it is just the Sanguinary Priest's benefit without the +1WS.
This actually made it so I won't be buying this boxed set. Not worth the hassle of offloading an extra Karlaen.
Well, at least it's not 'Hatred' for an army that already has multiple ways of getting said rule, and on a bunch of units that'll never get close to making it into assault range of anything.
DarknessEternal wrote: I already have all the sketches in that book in all the original places they were released, mostly White Dwarfs.
The biker sketches werent new? Did they publish them in WDW? You are right, it is already released material. Getting all of them in a handy collection - I missed out on buying the Gothic & Eldritch book back then - is something I would pay 30 GBP for though.
Even if it was FNP for the entire game it would be lackluster since it is just the Sanguinary Priest's benefit without the +1WS.
This actually made it so I won't be buying this boxed set. Not worth the hassle of offloading an extra Karlaen.
Well, at least it's not 'Hatred' for an army that already has multiple ways of getting said rule, and on a bunch of units that'll never get close to making it into assault range of anything.
Because BA don't have any easy time getting FNP? And at least Hatred lasts all game, not a single turn.
Sinful Hero wrote: Do Sanguinary Priests give FnP and IWND to Baal Predators? Those work on vehicles right, to recover Hull Points?
No, but it isn't like a Baal Predator that is stuck trying to maintain proximity to a Captain is going to be very useful in the first place. And only one turn of IWND is still pretty awful.
Sinful Hero wrote: Do Sanguinary Priests give FnP and IWND to Baal Predators? Those work on vehicles right, to recover Hull Points?
FnP doesn't, but IWND should.
Don't Soul Grinders get FnP somehow? Through a mark of some sort? I could've swore there was a thing about this, maybe it was 6th edition. But there were vehicles with FnP at some point, I'm sure of it!
Sinful Hero wrote: Do Sanguinary Priests give FnP and IWND to Baal Predators? Those work on vehicles right, to recover Hull Points?
FnP doesn't, but IWND should.
Don't Soul Grinders get FnP somehow? Through a mark of some sort? I could've swore there was a thing about this, maybe it was 6th edition. But there were vehicles with FnP at some point, I'm sure of it!
No, they have the Daemon rule, which is a 5+ invulnerable save.
Sort of sad about Blood Angels rules...but not surprised.
Sinful Hero wrote: Do Sanguinary Priests give FnP and IWND to Baal Predators? Those work on vehicles right, to recover Hull Points?
FnP doesn't, but IWND should.
Don't Soul Grinders get FnP somehow? Through a mark of some sort? I could've swore there was a thing about this, maybe it was 6th edition. But there were vehicles with FnP at some point, I'm sure of it!
No, they have the Daemon rule, which is a 5+ invulnerable save.
Sort of sad about Blood Angels rules...but not surprised.
Yeah, I guess I don't even know why I thought they might get something useful. The Red-Headed-Stepchild Loyalist Marines will always be garbage as a reaction to the few months where they weren't.
SickSix wrote: Why should BA get everything C:SM gets? C:SM doesn't get everything BA get!
I tell you what, when my Salamanders can take Baal Predators your BA can have Grav.
Right now BA are more Flamey than Salamanders. What sense does that make? Flamer tanks, heavy flamers in Tac squads, hand flamers and meltas.
Get over it.
I don't think they should have everything that C:SM get. Perhaps some things, but not all. I think the flyers would be appropriate, since Blood Angels pilots are supposed to be the ace pilots among the Space Marines. The flak tanks aren't as much of an issue. BA don't need Thunderfire Cannons, they have other anti-infantry platforms.
I thought Hawk Lords were supposed too be the Ace Pilots amongst Space Marines, considering other chapters send them their pilots to learn under them.
I think the Blood Angels really need some price reductions on their unique units, and Jump Psck equipped Assault Marines as troops.
SickSix wrote: Why should BA get everything C:SM gets? C:SM doesn't get everything BA get!
I tell you what, when my Salamanders can take Baal Predators your BA can have Grav.
Right now BA are more Flamey than Salamanders. What sense does that make? Flamer tanks, heavy flamers in Tac squads, hand flamers and meltas.
Get over it.
I don't think they should have everything that C:SM get. Perhaps some things, but not all. I think the flyers would be appropriate, since Blood Angels pilots are supposed to be the ace pilots among the Space Marines. The flak tanks aren't as much of an issue. BA don't need Thunderfire Cannons, they have other anti-infantry platforms.
I thought Hawk Lords were supposed too be the Ace Pilots amongst Space Marines, considering other chapters send them their pilots to learn under them.
I think the Blood Angels really need some price reductions on their unique units, and Jump Psck equipped Assault Marines as troops.
Hawk Lords are, but Blood Angels aren't far behind. You don't hear about Hawk Lords doing crazy stuff like flying Thunderhawk Transporters right into the middle of battle and dropping tanks.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I have a sneaking suspicion that not many people are buying these boxes for the rules.
More the savings.
Even though I utterly loathe Age of Gakmar the Lizardmen box (not calling it that other name. Waaaaaay too many dodgy results if you search for in on Google. Like GW don't know what lies on the internet ) has some crazy good value.
I never understood why people harp on about these boxes being good or not based on a chit of paper in them.
Really, they're beginner boxes/ boxes designed to help players pad out their forces. So if anything perhaps they should be judged on whether what they provide is a solid core or expansion and actually has a reasonable discount?
H.B.M.C. wrote: I have a sneaking suspicion that not many people are buying these boxes for the rules.
More the savings.
Even though I utterly loathe Age of Gakmar the Lizardmen box (not calling it that other name. Waaaaaay too many dodgy results if you search for in on Google. Like GW don't know what lies on the internet ) has some crazy good value.
I never understood why people harp on about these boxes being good or not based on a chit of paper in them.
Really, they're beginner boxes/ boxes designed to help players pad out their forces. So if anything perhaps they should be judged on whether what they provide is a solid core or expansion and actually has a reasonable discount?
Crazy talk, right?
Yeah. Those boxes suck. I mean, veteran players probably have multiples of the models included and the formation rules aren't that great. What did GW think when designing them? That they're an excellent discount for a new player to start an army? Madness indeed.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I have a sneaking suspicion that not many people are buying these boxes for the rules.
More the savings.
Even though I utterly loathe Age of Gakmar the Lizardmen box (not calling it that other name. Waaaaaay too many dodgy results if you search for in on Google. Like GW don't know what lies on the internet ) has some crazy good value.
I never understood why people harp on about these boxes being good or not based on a chit of paper in them.
Really, they're beginner boxes/ boxes designed to help players pad out their forces. So if anything perhaps they should be judged on whether what they provide is a solid core or expansion and actually has a reasonable discount?
Crazy talk, right?
Yeh. I have got eldar one already as it's good start. Now I'm eyeballing the AOS one for chaos warriors to kickstart daemon world army for 2nd ed chaos and the CSM one for...Well that's obvious
Formation rules are bonus but it's discount that matters.
Now yes if you have the BA character already and don't need him...Well less useful. But that box isn't meant to be everybody can find use for multiples. They are for starting armies. Hint is in the name
The funny thing is, I'm going to buy a Start Collecting BA kit just to get another Baal Predator. Not because I even want to field one, but because the only Baal Predator I own I painted way back when the model came out, and I want to paint a new one to match my new BA army.
If you're going to buy one anyhow, $27 for another tactical squad and a Karlaen is pretty good.
Not that I need more of either >.<
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Nostromodamus wrote: I love how they get It Will Not Die because they're emulating Sanguinius who... died
LOL. Yeah, the irony
Maybe just foreshadowing that even though It Will Not Die... it... Will. Die, that is!
Sinful Hero wrote: Do Sanguinary Priests give FnP and IWND to Baal Predators? Those work on vehicles right, to recover Hull Points?
FnP doesn't, but IWND should.
IWND - once per game you roll 5+. I barley hope that anyone would play this formation 3 game just to regain 1 hullpoint.
On a vehicle with 11 side and 10 rear AV. It such a relif! Even then it will probably be shaken or stunned.
I just can't understand - what kind of person would thought that this bonuses ARE SO GREAT that should last only one turn?
I mean - i understand how some things can be a one-use only - like missiles - it's an active tool - and you know that it will probably do something - it can miss but you at least rolled it.
While this ability is passive - they mean that someone should fire at you or something - and even then enemy may choose not to.
And heck even if opponent would attack you, 5+ it's not that thing that you can rely on.
Looking at the most of the rules - even the ork one looks more useful althogh it's a one use only.
The worst formation from start collecting series. And the best box set to start (or improve) blood angels collection.
Nah worst rules belong to Orks. At least with this one you can choose to use it whenever. For Orks they need to be in combat for at least one turn...no guarantees of that happening though.
Talys wrote: The funny thing is, I'm going to buy a Start Collecting BA kit just to get another Baal Predator. Not because I even want to field one, but because the only Baal Predator I own I painted way back when the model came out, and I want to paint a new one to match my new BA army.
If you're going to buy one anyhow, $27 for another tactical squad and a Karlaen is pretty good.
Not that I need more of either >.<
It's clever really. It not only converts a £30 sale to a £50 sale, it makes that initial item more attractive because of the perceived saving, AND like you said a lot of the time people don't *need* the bundled stuff anyway. So what do you do with those extra marines? No good just having them lie around. So you start a new army, of course! And then buy them a transport and a dreadnought and... £££
Bull0 wrote: It's clever really. It not only converts a £30 sale to a £50 sale, it makes that initial item more attractive because of the perceived saving, AND like you said a lot of the time people don't *need* the bundled stuff anyway. So what do you do with those extra marines? No good just having them lie around. So you start a new army, of course! And then buy them a transport and a dreadnought and... £££
Yep.
And then there's nutters who DO want lots of duplicates. I can for example see myself getting several start collecting: Chaos. Why? I plan to make smallish forces of EVERY chaos legion plus maybe custom chaos marine force as well.
Especially good since in 2nd edition I don't need 50 marines and 10 vechiles for an army. 20 marines and 2 vechiles is plenty
If the BA Start Collecting had ANY other BA character model in it besides Karlaen, I would have bought it on the spot. Since it has a named character model in it, the formation was going to be the only saving grace (I can get a Baal Predator and Tactical squad for cheaper than $85). Since the formation is crap, I see no need whatsoever to waste my money on this boxed set (the Karlaen model is still a waste since I would have to go through the trouble of selling him).
I sold my karlaen dupe (i bought 2 deathstorm boxes) about a week before the start collecting box was announced and managed to get about a tenner for it. Doubt it'd get that much now. Would have been awesome to have that new chaplain in there instead, I'd have bought it immediately.
My biggest bugbear is that the guard and stormtrooper boxes both have the same completely crap commissar model in them. Lame.
I don't think they should have everything that C:SM get. Perhaps some things, but not all. I think the flyers would be appropriate, since Blood Angels pilots are supposed to be the ace pilots among the Space Marines. The flak tanks aren't as much of an issue. BA don't need Thunderfire Cannons, they have other anti-infantry platforms.
I thought Hawk Lords were supposed too be the Ace Pilots amongst Space Marines, considering other chapters send them their pilots to learn under them.
There can be more than one chapter that is exceptionally good at something, and not all chapters are going to be bestest buds with the BAs or even anywhere physically near them.
Look at is this way - there are approximately 1,000 chapters in canon. There are 190 +60 + 5 countries in the world, now think of the top-tier Elite special forces here on Earth. How many are there? Now we'll be conservative and roll all the US forces into SOCOM and all of the Russians into "Spetsnaz". Then add SAS/SBS, SASR/4RAR, GIGN, GSG-9, GROM, CANSOFCOM, Shayatet 13 and I'll just stop there. There's quite a few more good places to send your guys here on Earth, and lots of those guys cross-train with each other, anyway...
There can be more than one chapter that is exceptionally good at something, and not all chapters are going to be bestest buds with the BAs or even anywhere physically near them.
Look at is this way - there are approximately 1,000 chapters in canon. There are 190 +60 + 5 countries in the world, now think of the top-tier Elite special forces here on Earth. How many are there? Now we'll be conservative and roll all the US forces into SOCOM and all of the Russians into "Spetsnaz". Then add SAS/SBS, SASR/4RAR, GIGN, GSG-9, GROM, CANSOFCOM, Shayatet 13 and I'll just stop there. There's quite a few more good places to send your guys here on Earth, and lots of those guys cross-train with each other, anyway...
casvalremdeikun wrote: If the BA Start Collecting had ANY other BA character model in it besides Karlaen, I would have bought it on the spot. Since it has a named character model in it, the formation was going to be the only saving grace (I can get a Baal Predator and Tactical squad for cheaper than $85). Since the formation is crap, I see no need whatsoever to waste my money on this boxed set (the Karlaen model is still a waste since I would have to go through the trouble of selling him).
Tac squad 34€, predator 46€, total 80€.
Start collecting 65€.
Discount before even character.
And generally discount stores have same discount for start collecting force for even more of discount. My standard source for models give it with current exchange rate for 53€.
I could throw that guy in a trashcan and still get it cheaper.
I could build the predator as rhino(assuming it doesn't lack some crucial part), throw captain to garbage bin and be pretty much same with some spare vechile parts.
Yeah. I can live with crappy formation rules. Those aren't key things of these boxes anyway.
casvalremdeikun wrote: If the BA Start Collecting had ANY other BA character model in it besides Karlaen, I would have bought it on the spot. Since it has a named character model in it, the formation was going to be the only saving grace (I can get a Baal Predator and Tactical squad for cheaper than $85). Since the formation is crap, I see no need whatsoever to waste my money on this boxed set (the Karlaen model is still a waste since I would have to go through the trouble of selling him).
Tac squad 34€, predator 46€, total 80€.
Start collecting 65€.
Discount before even character.
And generally discount stores have same discount for start collecting force for even more of discount. My standard source for models give it with current exchange rate for 53€.
I could throw that guy in a trashcan and still get it cheaper.
I could build the predator as rhino(assuming it doesn't lack some crucial part), throw captain to garbage bin and be pretty much same with some spare vechile parts.
Yeah. I can live with crappy formation rules. Those aren't key things of these boxes anyway.
I agree with this. Even though the Baal predator is not worth its points. The fact that you can just build it as a Rhino works. The Rhino and the Tactical squad are $80 at GW not including tax. You can pick it up on Ebay for under $70. Probably worth it to expand even though the rules are trash.
I have been looking at buying another Tac squad and turning them into Assault marines anyway.
Sinful Hero wrote: Do Sanguinary Priests give FnP and IWND to Baal Predators? Those work on vehicles right, to recover Hull Points?
FnP doesn't, but IWND should.
Don't Soul Grinders get FnP somehow? Through a mark of some sort? I could've swore there was a thing about this, maybe it was 6th edition. But there were vehicles with FnP at some point, I'm sure of it!
No, they have the Daemon rule, which is a 5+ invulnerable save.
Sort of sad about Blood Angels rules...but not surprised.
Yeah, I guess I don't even know why I thought they might get something useful. The Red-Headed-Stepchild Loyalist Marines will always be garbage as a reaction to the few months where they weren't.
This is going to be an unpopular opinion, I'm sure, but I'm going to put this out there. It seems like all of the newer formations have been toned downs significantly, and that's a good thing. It seems like GW is starting to see how ridiculous the power creep was getting. The problem is they left the previous OP formations as-is, so there is once again a major gap between, for example, the Necron Decurion and the Ork Decurion. I'm just hoping that future updates will tone down those stronger formations and codices.
casvalremdeikun wrote: If the BA Start Collecting had ANY other BA character model in it besides Karlaen, I would have bought it on the spot. Since it has a named character model in it, the formation was going to be the only saving grace (I can get a Baal Predator and Tactical squad for cheaper than $85). Since the formation is crap, I see no need whatsoever to waste my money on this boxed set (the Karlaen model is still a waste since I would have to go through the trouble of selling him).
This is a complete joke
No one buys box sets for the exclusive formstion paper in the box.
It's on the internet within a day as a PDF.
I'm 99% sure you didn't buy every single book or white dwarf or box set unfit every formstion you played
Skyhammer I play against all the freakin time and until recently(Angels of death) no one I played ever bought that box set.
So claiming you would have bought this box set even though you don't need or want these models is the biggest joke I've seen in w long time.
I've never seen anyone waste a sanguine priest on a random tac squad so people claiming they would pay more points to get fnp from a sanguine priest is a also a joke. This formstion isn't that great but its fine as s start collecting bonus. None of the start collection formstions are competitive. It should have just been fnp for the squad while near the captain the entire game.
The Ork formstion is by far the worst. It was a nice idea but horrible implementation and is nearly impossible to gain any benefit from it. It should have simply been allowing the units in the formstion to charge and assault during the shooting phase. Which would have allowed them to move, charge and assault( shooting phase), charge and assault again( assault Phase). Thus increasing thier charge range and essentially doubling thier attacks
H.B.M.C. wrote: I have a sneaking suspicion that not many people are buying these boxes for the rules.
Fixed That For You
If you're talking about BA, then sure, but if you're talking about Get Started! in general, then you're dead wrong, those things sell like hotcakes. Well, depending on army, but people love the savings make no mistake.
Even if it was FNP for the entire game it would be lackluster since it is just the Sanguinary Priest's benefit without the +1WS.
This actually made it so I won't be buying this boxed set. Not worth the hassle of offloading an extra Karlaen.
I can't fathom why they just didn't include the sanguinary priest instead of Karlaen. The priest is base 1/3 less points and provides better benefits overall and the priest is a pretty good looking unit.
Mymearan wrote: And again the symbol on the one ...still want IF dice though!
FW will eventually have you covered. With the symbol on the 6 too.
At least with the Ultramarine dice, it’s easy to remember the is the one. The roman numerals are also color coded to the codex approved scheme for the respective company. As white is the first company, it all works out.
I don't really understand all the love for the start collecting box. Yeah they are rather nice, byt they are pretty much similar in saving to the battalion boxes we had before.
streetsamurai wrote: I don't really understand all the love for the start collecting box. Yeah they are rather nice, byt they are pretty much similar in saving to the battalion boxes we had before.
Saving is a saving. You prefer no boxes with saving?
Okay so yeah they could have kept old battle forces but as long as they aren't worse deal what's harm in changing content what you get discount on? If you have same box forever there's limit on how many boxes you really need. Change and you might get cheaper what you didn't have before. Plus was there even battleforce for every faction that has battle force...
GW prices are currently nuts. Any release that makes the prices bit more bearable is a good release.
Mymearan wrote: And again the symbol on the one ...still want IF dice though!
FW will eventually have you covered. With the symbol on the 6 too.
At least with the Ultramarine dice, it’s easy to remember the is the one. The roman numerals are also color coded to the codex approved scheme for the respective company. As white is the first company, it all works out.
streetsamurai wrote: I don't really understand all the love for the start collecting box. Yeah they are rather nice, byt they are pretty much similar in saving to the battalion boxes we had before.
Saving is a saving. You prefer no boxes with saving?
Okay so yeah they could have kept old battle forces but as long as they aren't worse deal what's harm in changing content what you get discount on? If you have same box forever there's limit on how many boxes you really need. Change and you might get cheaper what you didn't have before. Plus was there even battleforce for every faction that has battle force...
GW prices are currently nuts. Any release that makes the prices bit more bearable is a good release.
This is nt what I'm saying. Only that I find it weird that a lot of persons seems to act like these boxes are a complete novel approach by GW (praising Roundtree for it), while in fact, they have always done that
They are basically battleforce boxes with formation rules, but they are new battleboxes that the formation rules let you play with their contents out of the box. Prior to this, they were just a collection of models you got a discount on, and not a playable force.
Unless I'm mistaken, they are not really playable out of the box, since you don't get all the rules of the units on the formation sheet. You still need the codex.
streetsamurai wrote: Unless I'm mistaken, they are not really playable out of the box, since you don't get all the rules of the units on the formation sheet. You still need the codex.
That's not what I was refereeing to.
The old battle forces did not come with a HQ and 2 Troops, so they were unplayable combinations of models in the box.
The new get started boxes come with the formation rules, that match the contents of the box, so you can play the formation, with no additional models.
Little Timmy can buy a 40K rulebook, codex, and matching get started box and be good to go. You could not do that with the old battle forces.
streetsamurai wrote: Unless I'm mistaken, they are not really playable out of the box, since you don't get all the rules of the units on the formation sheet. You still need the codex.
That's not what I was refereeing to.
The old battle forces did not come with a HQ and 2 Troops, so they were unplayable combinations of models in the box.
The new get started boxes come with the formation rules, that match the contents of the box, so you can play the formation, with no additional models.
Little Timmy can buy a 40K rulebook, codex, and matching get started box and be good to go. You could not do that with the old battle forces.
Admittedly, at the time of the Battle force boxes Formations didn't really exist.
Formations are a 6th/7th ed thing and to be frank, far more a 7th ed thing in terms of power scaling. The 6th ed. formations, what few of them there are....really leave a lot to be desired.
Pretty sure if the Battleforces were released during this period they'd either have formations tacked on or...in an ideal world would have a statement along the lines of 'Great for expanding an existing army.'
Really, we could do with the following...
Start Collecting - which so far has this trend of 1 HQ, 1 Troops and Something Else
Battleforce - A collection of Something Elses plus at least 1 Troops choice.
I stumbled across them in the pre-order section, had not heard anyone mention them before.
Huh. I just ordered a bunch or Ultramarine dice from eBay that replaces the six with the Ultramarines Symbol, and uses dots. So, at least they won't easily confused.
Might pick up a set for wound markers or something, though.
Huh. I just ordered a bunch or Ultramarine dice from eBay that replaces the six with the Ultramarines Symbol, and uses dots. So, at least they won't easily confused.
Might pick up a set for wound markers or something, though.
I was thinking the same thing. I prefer the smaller dice to actually roll, but these would make good markers.
On a related note, when I was over at GW’s website double-checking the size, I noticed their normal dice cubes were different. No longer the big d6 filled with dice, but a more normal case, and all the dice had skulls for ones. Looks like they don’t come with a 12mm scatter dies as well. This new?
Yeah those came out fairly recently I think, as the old dice cube is still on their website (though it's listed as sold out and no longer available).
They don't have any scatter dice, though I noticed when I went to my local GW for the first time in ages they have a box full of scatter dice to give people when they buy a cube. It seems real strange.
Huh. I just ordered a bunch or Ultramarine dice from eBay that replaces the six with the Ultramarines Symbol, and uses dots. So, at least they won't easily confused.
Might pick up a set for wound markers or something, though.
I was thinking the same thing. I prefer the smaller dice to actually roll, but these would make good markers.
On a related note, when I was over at GW’s website double-checking the size, I noticed their normal dice cubes were different. No longer the big d6 filled with dice, but a more normal case, and all the dice had skulls for ones. Looks like they don’t come with a 12mm scatter dies as well. This new?
Wasn't the Gork and Mork dice released when the Orruk release came out for AOS?
Wonder if there is some kind of SM release coming out soon.
Matt.Kingsley wrote: Yeah those came out fairly recently I think, as the old dice cube is still on their website (though it's listed as sold out and no longer available).
They don't have any scatter dice, though I noticed when I went to my local GW for the first time in ages they have a box full of scatter dice to give people when they buy a cube. It seems real strange.
Might be cheaper for them to have a cube made up of all dice being the same, and then having another batch made up of scatter die to hand out with a purchase.
streetsamurai wrote:I don't really understand all the love for the start collecting box. Yeah they are rather nice, byt they are pretty much similar in saving to the battalion boxes we had before.
What don't you really understand? It's GET STARTED in other wise people who are getting into 40K or want to start another army and the $100 price point sounds good and not to spend more. Also it's a legal army to field and you don't have to buy no more minis to GET STARTED playing.
Kanluwen wrote: For 40k, the Tau and Mechanicus ones are the best value.
The absolute best value though is Seraphon. $85 for a Carnosaur, Saurus Knights, and Saurus Warriors...when a Carnosaur by itself is $85.
A few of them pull that trick... and I kind of love it. :-p I needed an Arkhan the Black for Age of Sigmar... and I could either buy him for $82, or I could get 10 free skeletons and 5 skeletons on horse with him, thanks to a Starts Collecting Box.
I will agree the Tau one seems to be a champion though as it is the easiest to buy multiples of without subsequent boxes losing too much value. Yeah you end up with extra Ethereals, but as long as you need Crisis Suits, why not get free Fire Warriors with them? :-p
Kanluwen wrote: For 40k, the Tau and Mechanicus ones are the best value.
The absolute best value though is Seraphon. $85 for a Carnosaur, Saurus Knights, and Saurus Warriors...when a Carnosaur by itself is $85.
A few of them pull that trick... and I kind of love it. :-p I needed an Arkhan the Black for Age of Sigmar... and I could either buy him for $82, or I could get 10 free skeletons and 5 skeletons on horse with him, thanks to a Starts Collecting Box.
I will agree the Tau one seems to be a champion though as it is the easiest to buy multiples of without subsequent boxes losing too much value. Yeah you end up with extra Ethereals, but as long as you need Crisis Suits, why not get free Fire Warriors with them? :-p
Yeah, the Tyranid box is good for that too. Buy five and you have the perfect Tyranid list!
streetsamurai wrote:I don't really understand all the love for the start collecting box. Yeah they are rather nice, byt they are pretty much similar in saving to the battalion boxes we had before.
What don't you really understand? It's GET STARTED in other wise people who are getting into 40K or want to start another army and the $100 price point sounds good and not to spend more. Also it's a legal army to field and you don't have to buy no more minis to GET STARTED playing.
Which, As i already said, isn't much different from the old batallion box. That's what i don't understand. Why people act like it's a novel thing from GW. True the old battalion werent including a HQ, but considering how bloated the price is on most of them, i don't think it is necessarily a bad thing, not to mention that it is pretty easy to convert one in most case.
Not that i dont like the get started boxes, they are great value for the most part.
streetsamurai wrote: That's what i don't understand. Why people act like it's a novel thing from GW. T
Ah I see where you are coming from. I think the big thing for these get started boxes is there rules to play them as is, other wise like a lot of the battle boxes you can't "legally" play them because they never had all the pieces to play "out of the box".
streetsamurai wrote:I don't really understand all the love for the start collecting box. Yeah they are rather nice, byt they are pretty much similar in saving to the battalion boxes we had before.
What don't you really understand? It's GET STARTED in other wise people who are getting into 40K or want to start another army and the $100 price point sounds good and not to spend more. Also it's a legal army to field and you don't have to buy no more minis to GET STARTED playing.
Which, As i already said, isn't much different from the old batallion box. That's what i don't understand. Why people act like it's a novel thing from GW. True the old battalion werent including a HQ, but considering how bloated the price is on most of them, i don't think it is necessarily a bad thing, not to mention that it is pretty easy to convert one in most case.
Not that i dont like the get started boxes, they are great value for the most part.
For me at least - a lot of the attraction is that there's a "big thing" in many of them. I've typically got lots of troops and such for my existing forces, but the "big thing" is often a newer, larger centrepiece kit that I just haven't been able to stomach the price of and so don't yet own (ie, Carnosaur, Helbrute, Mortatch, etc). Similarly, the commander figure is usually one that I'd in no way pay the asking price of, but in a bundle, along with the "big thing" that I wanted anyway, and essentially free troops, all for pretty much the price of the "big thing" makes it much more attractive than the old battalion boxes.
streetsamurai wrote:I don't really understand all the love for the start collecting box. Yeah they are rather nice, byt they are pretty much similar in saving to the battalion boxes we had before.
What don't you really understand? It's GET STARTED in other wise people who are getting into 40K or want to start another army and the $100 price point sounds good and not to spend more. Also it's a legal army to field and you don't have to buy no more minis to GET STARTED playing.
Which, As i already said, isn't much different from the old batallion box. That's what i don't understand. Why people act like it's a novel thing from GW. True the old battalion werent including a HQ, but considering how bloated the price is on most of them, i don't think it is necessarily a bad thing, not to mention that it is pretty easy to convert one in most case.
Not that i dont like the get started boxes, they are great value for the most part.
One thing btw that might be affecting is that while this isn't novel for GW it's change of pace to recent price hikes. GW putting out NEW discounted boxes is novelty compared to recent times! Gives hope prices in future would normalize a bit(they don't even need to decrease. Just stay stable for a while).
The Start Collecting boxes are a great deal to get a bunch of generally desirable models at a pretty significant discount. I'm quite certain the idea is that it gives both new and existing players a chance to explore another faction -- and it's models -- without a large investment.
The formations that come with them are nothing spectacular, but what did you expect? It's just rules to allow you to play with those models, plus a small, often minor, bonus. The bigger issue, I guess, is that the Start Collecting boxes are balanced against each other more in terms of model desirability and cost, rather than any power level, so you can't just say, "My Start Collecting Box, Your Start Collecting box, FIGHT!" -- or at least no do so with the expectation of an even playing field.
Model Value-wise, some of the factions are a whole lot better than others. Skitarii and Tau are fantastic, for example, in terms of both model purchase price and gaming use desirability, while and Eldar and Blood Angels less so different reasons -- Eldar, because the discount is small, Blood Angels, because the Baal Pred and Karlaen aren't that good in-game, and Deathstorm fans already have one or more Karlaen. Not that either stopped me from buying a box, but it would have been cool to get a Furioso and a Sanguinary Priest or jet-pack Chaplain instead, for example.
But, all that's fine with me. I'm very happy with them as a way to start on a new faction, or add to an existing one
Model Value-wise, some of the factions are a whole lot better than others. Skitarii and Tau are fantastic, for example, in terms of both model purchase price and gaming use desirability, while and Eldar and Blood Angels less so different reasons -- Eldar, because the discount is small, Blood Angels, because the Baal Pred and Karlaen aren't that good in-game, and Deathstorm fans already have one or more Karlaen. Not that either stopped me from buying a box, but it would have been cool to get a Furioso and a Sanguinary Priest or jet-pack Chaplain instead, for example.
I'm willing to wager that BA Dreads and Sanguinary priest sales are more robust than Baal and Karlaen sales are, or would be.
GW's most likely not looking to cannibalize sales of well performing models, when they have less robust selling alternatives taking up space in the warehouse.
Moving forward, it's also nice to see Karlaen available for newer BA players, who weren't around to pick up Deathstorm as well.
It's basically a Captain, Tactical, and Razorback with BA Aesthetic
Just checked the GW site: Captain, Tactical, and Furioso are the contents of the $95 BA Battleforce
The Battleforces also had varying prices that might influence newbies.
And they were generally more expensive than the Start Collecting boxes. 65€ is ok even if I don't want one of the units included. But 80 or even 95 € I would only invest if I really want everything included even if the savings would be the same.
Model Value-wise, some of the factions are a whole lot better than others. Skitarii and Tau are fantastic, for example, in terms of both model purchase price and gaming use desirability, while and Eldar and Blood Angels less so different reasons -- Eldar, because the discount is small, Blood Angels, because the Baal Pred and Karlaen aren't that good in-game, and Deathstorm fans already have one or more Karlaen. Not that either stopped me from buying a box, but it would have been cool to get a Furioso and a Sanguinary Priest or jet-pack Chaplain instead, for example.
I'm willing to wager that BA Dreads and Sanguinary priest sales are more robust than Baal and Karlaen sales are, or would be.
GW's most likely not looking to cannibalize sales of well performing models, when they have less robust selling alternatives taking up space in the warehouse.
Moving forward, it's also nice to see Karlaen available for newer BA players, who weren't around to pick up Deathstorm as well.
It's basically a Captain, Tactical, and Razorback with BA Aesthetic
Just checked the GW site: Captain, Tactical, and Furioso are the contents of the $95 BA Battleforce
I totally agree with what you're saying as to GW not wanting to cannibalize sales, but if you look at the "great" Start Collecting boxes, like Skitarri, you get the Dominus, which is both an awesome model and a great gamepiece, Or the Tau, where you get the new Crisis Suits (which are practically the value of the box) and an Ethereal. I mean, they could have just as easily packed in some crappy Tau vehicle.
By the way, Karlaen is available separately -- he's called "Blood Angels Captain in Terminator Armor".
I'm actually more surprised they included a Baal Pred instead of a Furioso, as the CSM box was basically the CSM version of the Space Marine one (1 "Dread", 1 Term Lord/Captain, 1 squad of marines). Karleen in there makes this just one unit off from being the same "clone" set.
Not really complaining though, I need baal preds and Furiosos are still one of the last decently priced Dreads left.
Just noticed the Dark Angels battleforce and Dark Vengeance expansion are no longer available. Hint that Dark Angels are getting a start collecting box shortly?
Kanluwen wrote: The Dark Angels Ravenwing Battleforce has been gone for at least a year, and the DV Expansion for maybe four months.
Think you're thinking of a different one. The "Dark Angels Battleforce" was in stock last month (friend just ordered it).
I recall a Ravenwing Battleforce sometime back though, which I think you might be thinking of.
"In stock" for Canada does not equate to "In Stock" for the rest of the world. Sometimes stuff that has been gone for months if not years in other regions is available in others.
Kanluwen wrote: The Dark Angels Ravenwing Battleforce has been gone for at least a year, and the DV Expansion for maybe four months.
Think you're thinking of a different one. The "Dark Angels Battleforce" was in stock last month (friend just ordered it).
I recall a Ravenwing Battleforce sometime back though, which I think you might be thinking of.
"In stock" for Canada does not equate to "In Stock" for the rest of the world. Sometimes stuff that has been gone for months if not years in other regions is available in others.
That is true, but when someone says something is out of stock and gives the impression it's like that in the rest of the world, of course someone is going to say they could get it. At least they should say "not available in my area" instead of just saying "not available anymore."
Twelvecarpileup wrote: Sorry, just noticed it while I was on their site after a friend ordered it. Didn't think to check every country's stock/when they went out of stock.
And you don't have to be. If someone is going to say "out of stock" or "can't get no more" they should be saying what region they are in, otherwise it seems they are saying for the entire planet. It's up to them to get the point across, not us to do research and think what they might mean.
People have been speculating on:
40k - Harlequins, Dark Angels, Slaanesh Deamons, Tzeentch Daemons and Grey Knights (problematic because of the lack of plastic hero).
AoS - Ogres, Free Peoples (Empire), Dwarves, High Elves, Dark Elves, Wood Elves, Non-Pestilens Skaven (particularly Skryre), Beastmen.
Some people have also been speculating on other factions, and complaning that GW aren't boxing up new factions like Fyreslayers or Bloodbound - or why they don't release a brand-new overpriced hero to be seen first in a SC kit, but those aren't realistic expectations given that SC kits are about reboxing older kits (though some of the Tau stuff is newer). I think that we might see some of the new AoS factions in a year or two if SC is still a popular thing, but forget about seeing a Sylvaneth one for quite some time...
Azazelx wrote: Grey Knights (problematic because of the lack of plastic hero).
Not really a problem. GW has shown willing to use the standard terminator librarian models for GK in the past, so the new plastic SM Librarian in TDA, a 10 man squad of GK, and a dreadknight would make a likely box.
Hopefully we see a Tzeentch one this year with all the Tzeentch rumors flying around. The likely contents of such a box has already been around for a while now.
Azazelx wrote: 40k - Harlequins, Dark Angels, Slaanesh Deamons, Tzeentch Daemons and Grey Knights (problematic because of the lack of plastic hero).
I really want the plastic Tzeentch one to become a reality, especially if it had him in it.
As for the GK's? This'll do as a plastic character.
that plastic Termie Libby is dead easy to convert to a GK, too...
the storm bolter is in a seperate hand from the wrist, and a casting hand comes in the kit to replace it...
cutting off the gun, and mounting it on the opposite wrist, didn't even require Green Stuff even better, the GK Termie box (which you know would be included in the SC box) comes with a spare shoulder pad to customize your Libby...
conveniently, the right shoulder pad is a separate piece on this guy...
almost like the designer knew what he was doing
jah-joshua wrote: that plastic Termie Libby is dead easy to convert to a GK, too...
the storm bolter is in a seperate hand from the wrist, and a casting hand comes in the kit to replace it...
cutting off the gun, and mounting it on the opposite wrist, didn't even require Green Stuff even better, the GK Termie box (which you know would be included in the SC box) comes with a spare shoulder pad to customize your Libby...
conveniently, the right shoulder pad is a separate piece on this guy...
almost like the designer knew what he was doing
cheers
jah
You know 2 boxes of basic marines, 1 box of termies and libby seems to add up to about what other gives you. Does lack vechile though which goes against trend but exceptions can be made.
Would be pretty sweet deal. Maybe TOO good for GW to give that. That's like very good deal to multiply.
And I would get cheaply GK army for 2nd ed. 10 PA+lib+5 terminators=pretty respectable army already
That seems to make good sense. I could see them putting PA Marines in instead just so you have to buy a box of Termies to make your Librarian look the part.
is the one. The roman numerals are also color coded to the codex approved scheme for the respective company. As white is the first company, it all works out.
