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Is it confirmed then that the formation bonus is hatred to models within 12" of the Lord? Or is that just speculation?

Confirmed. Pictures are on BOLS.

Ffs...

With the plastic rubrics and magnus rumours, I was thinking a start collecting csm box might be in order.. but I don't see much of a point now. I might as well just wait til the next war zone fenris comes out to see if they've given csm anything useful there. I won't even buy rubrics if they keep their current rules and don't have a decent formation. Hell, if magnus is released as a lord of war and requires other csm to ally with my daemons... i might not even buy him. What use is hatred when all those csm will be dead long before they get within charge range.

Why anyone would drop the ball so hard on an IP as strong as csm is beyond me. Seriously starting to be mind boggling. I desperately want to collect csm, especially tzeentch, but not just to put them on a bloody shelf.

AncientSkarbrand wrote:
I might as well just wait til the next war zone fenris comes out to see if they've given csm anything useful there. I won't even buy rubrics if they keep their current rules and don't have a decent formation.

I wouldn't hold your breath. Since the 6th ed codex dropped they've had how many opportunities to reverse course?

1. Codex Supplement: Black Legion.
2. Codex Supplement: Crimson Slaughter.
3. Codex: Khorne Daemonkin.
4. Codex Supplement: Black Legion v2.0
5. Codex Supplement: Crimson Slaughter v2.0
6. Start Collecting! Chaos Space Marines.

Have any of the above given you any reason to believe that the current studio realizes CSM are weaksauce, acknowledges that this is a problem, and have any desire to fix it? I would expect more of the same.

KDK is a good codex.

But this is not a whinging about CSM thread.

Requizen wrote:
KDK is a good codex.

It's half-good. The daemon half.

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

Requizen wrote:
KDK is a good codex.

It's half-good. The daemon half.

Bikers and Terminators from the formations have good things going for them, but that's generally it.

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
Have any of the above given you any reason to believe that the current studio realizes CSM are weaksauce, acknowledges that this is a problem, and have any desire to fix it?

Wouldn't make any difference if they did. They acknowledged that Tyranids were a weak Codex, and then gave us the piece of gak we have now.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
Have any of the above given you any reason to believe that the current studio realizes CSM are weaksauce, acknowledges that this is a problem, and have any desire to fix it?

Wouldn't make any difference if they did. They acknowledged that Tyranids were a weak Codex, and then gave us the piece of gak we have now.

Well they're an NPC codex too, like Orks.

I am waiting for the Eldar one to be something like any blessing that affects the Farseer also affects units in 12" or something absurd like that.

Can you use the formations in supplement armies? As in, for whatever insane reason, can you use the CSM start collecting formation as a Crimson Slaughter formation, using the relics therein?

I'm asking for a friend, i wouldnt be caught dead fielding this gak. and thats the true true

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
I am waiting for the Eldar one to be something like any blessing that affects the Farseer also affects units in 12" or something absurd like that.

all psychic powers are casted on a 2+ and invisibility in a 12" bubble?

Are dedicated transports unit upgrades?

 EverlastingNewb wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
I am waiting for the Eldar one to be something like any blessing that affects the Farseer also affects units in 12" or something absurd like that.

all psychic powers are casted on a 2+ and invisibility in a 12" bubble?

Reduced Warp Charge requirement for powers by 1 and cast on a 2+.

gungo wrote:
Are dedicated transports unit upgrades?

Even if they are, I don't think Taurox Primes can Deep Strike

Yonasu wrote:
Can you use the formations in supplement armies? As in, for whatever insane reason, can you use the CSM start collecting formation as a Crimson Slaughter formation, using the relics therein?

I'm asking for a friend, i wouldnt be caught dead fielding this gak. and thats the true true

The new supplements specifically state that you can make any vanilla formation also into a supplement formation. So yes.

Requizen wrote:

gungo wrote:
Are dedicated transports unit upgrades?

Even if they are, I don't think Taurox Primes can Deep Strike

Good thing the special rule gives it the ability to deep strike.
The rule doesn't say the new unit must deep strike.
It says the new unit is placed in ongoing reserves and the new unit arrives from deepstrike reserves.

If this is an identical unit purchase including all upgrades and weapons and models. Then having deepstriking battle cannons is extremely good.

1 scion command in a taurox prime from the formation
1 scion squad in a dedicated taurox prime transport
1 commissar inside a blob of 30+ guardsmen doing something useful like keeping them from failing morale tests.

Keep spamming special weapons and battle cannon transports until your opponent ignores it and goes after your blob.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 EverlastingNewb wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
I am waiting for the Eldar one to be something like any blessing that affects the Farseer also affects units in 12" or something absurd like that.

all psychic powers are casted on a 2+ and invisibility in a 12" bubble?

Reduced Warp Charge requirement for powers by 1 and cast on a 2+.

Cast on a 2+, Reduced warp charge req. by 1 with to a minimum of 0 & added left over warp charges to the formations toughness - c'mon, it's eldar. Don't be so hard on them.

 EverlastingNewb wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 EverlastingNewb wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
I am waiting for the Eldar one to be something like any blessing that affects the Farseer also affects units in 12" or something absurd like that.

all psychic powers are casted on a 2+ and invisibility in a 12" bubble?

Reduced Warp Charge requirement for powers by 1 and cast on a 2+.

Cast on a 2+, Reduced warp charge req. by 1 with to a minimum of 0 & added left over warp charges to the formations toughness - c'mon, it's eldar. Don't be so hard on them.

Technically, WC0 powers could be autodenied.

Roknar wrote:

Yonasu wrote:
Can you use the formations in supplement armies? As in, for whatever insane reason, can you use the CSM start collecting formation as a Crimson Slaughter formation, using the relics therein?

I'm asking for a friend, i wouldnt be caught dead fielding this gak. and thats the true true

The new supplements specifically state that you can make any vanilla formation also into a supplement formation. So yes.

Ah ok, the old one said specifically codex csm thats why i asked. Goodie, i will enjoy watching them die for following a false god. Papa nurgle will eat well tonight!

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 EverlastingNewb wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 EverlastingNewb wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
I am waiting for the Eldar one to be something like any blessing that affects the Farseer also affects units in 12" or something absurd like that.

all psychic powers are casted on a 2+ and invisibility in a 12" bubble?

Reduced Warp Charge requirement for powers by 1 and cast on a 2+.

Cast on a 2+, Reduced warp charge req. by 1 with to a minimum of 0 & added left over warp charges to the formations toughness - c'mon, it's eldar. Don't be so hard on them.

Technically, WC0 powers could be autodenied.

Wait, wouldn't it be auto-cast? You still have to deny it with 6+ or not?

gungo wrote:

Requizen wrote:

gungo wrote:
Are dedicated transports unit upgrades?

Even if they are, I don't think Taurox Primes can Deep Strike

Good thing the special rule gives it the ability to deep strike.
The rule doesn't say the new unit must deep strike.
It says the new unit is placed in ongoing reserves and the new unit arrives from deepstrike reserves.

If this is an identical unit purchase including all upgrades and weapons and models. Then having deepstriking battle cannons is extremely good.

1 scion command in a taurox prime from the formation
1 scion squad in a dedicated taurox prime transport
1 commissar inside a blob of 30+ guardsmen doing something useful like keeping them from failing morale tests.

Keep spamming special weapons and battle cannon transports until your opponent ignores it and goes after your blob.

This is the reason we need FAQs.

Don't misunderstand, I think you're wrong. It's pretty clear it's intended to only be the Scions. A Taurox, based on looking at the Codex, it doesnt SEEM to be an upgrade, it's a dedicated Transport.

** I'll add, this is just me THINKING you're wrong. I could complete be wrong, as well.

I agree I don't think it's the intent however it depends on if they consider dedicated transports an upgrade for a unit. Which is why I asked. I'm not sure myself.

 EverlastingNewb wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 EverlastingNewb wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 EverlastingNewb wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
I am waiting for the Eldar one to be something like any blessing that affects the Farseer also affects units in 12" or something absurd like that.

all psychic powers are casted on a 2+ and invisibility in a 12" bubble?

Reduced Warp Charge requirement for powers by 1 and cast on a 2+.

Cast on a 2+, Reduced warp charge req. by 1 with to a minimum of 0 & added left over warp charges to the formations toughness - c'mon, it's eldar. Don't be so hard on them.

Technically, WC0 powers could be autodenied.

Wait, wouldn't it be auto-cast? You still have to deny it with 6+ or not?

Exactly. It would be an auto-cast, IE. you manifested it on zero warp charges. And thus your opponent needs zero 6s to match your zero charges. Well, assuming you don't throw extra dice at it to prevent that.

 EverlastingNewb wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 EverlastingNewb wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 EverlastingNewb wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
I am waiting for the Eldar one to be something like any blessing that affects the Farseer also affects units in 12" or something absurd like that.

all psychic powers are casted on a 2+ and invisibility in a 12" bubble?

Reduced Warp Charge requirement for powers by 1 and cast on a 2+.

Cast on a 2+, Reduced warp charge req. by 1 with to a minimum of 0 & added left over warp charges to the formations toughness - c'mon, it's eldar. Don't be so hard on them.

Technically, WC0 powers could be autodenied.

Wait, wouldn't it be auto-cast? You still have to deny it with 6+ or not?

I guess it would mean you would have to roll as many 6's as your opponent threw dice since each of his dice count as a success.

gungo wrote:

Requizen wrote:

gungo wrote:
Are dedicated transports unit upgrades?

Even if they are, I don't think Taurox Primes can Deep Strike

Good thing the special rule gives it the ability to deep strike.
The rule doesn't say the new unit must deep strike.
It says the new unit is placed in ongoing reserves and the new unit arrives from deepstrike reserves.

If this is an identical unit purchase including all upgrades and weapons and models. Then having deepstriking battle cannons is extremely good.

1 scion command in a taurox prime from the formation
1 scion squad in a dedicated taurox prime transport
1 commissar inside a blob of 30+ guardsmen doing something useful like keeping them from failing morale tests.

Keep spamming special weapons and battle cannon transports until your opponent ignores it and goes after your blob.

Ah yes, but then does the Taurox also have to die for the unit to come back?

I'd say yes but one step at a time. Still don't know if the tramsports considered a unit upgrade just because it's in the profile and worded nearly the same as most upgrades.

Edit: actually dedicated transports has one section in the entire brb rulebook and it states dedicated transports are considered the same unit entry for all rules purposes and do not use any additional foc slots. It reads very much like s unit upgrade to me.

Cephalobeard wrote:

gungo wrote:

Requizen wrote:

gungo wrote:
Are dedicated transports unit upgrades?

Even if they are, I don't think Taurox Primes can Deep Strike

Good thing the special rule gives it the ability to deep strike.
The rule doesn't say the new unit must deep strike.
It says the new unit is placed in ongoing reserves and the new unit arrives from deepstrike reserves.

If this is an identical unit purchase including all upgrades and weapons and models. Then having deepstriking battle cannons is extremely good.

1 scion command in a taurox prime from the formation
1 scion squad in a dedicated taurox prime transport
1 commissar inside a blob of 30+ guardsmen doing something useful like keeping them from failing morale tests.

Keep spamming special weapons and battle cannon transports until your opponent ignores it and goes after your blob.

This is the reason we need FAQs.

Don't misunderstand, I think you're wrong. It's pretty clear it's intended to only be the Scions. A Taurox, based on looking at the Codex, it doesnt SEEM to be an upgrade, it's a dedicated Transport.

** I'll add, this is just me THINKING you're wrong. I could complete be wrong, as well.

You're looking at the Astra Militarum book.

Militarum Tempestus was done in the style of all the current books, where transports can be purchased as Fast Attacks.
Since it's a "Start Collecting: Militarum Tempestus" set consisting of a Commissar, a Command Squad, a unit of Scions, and a Taurox Prime? It's blatantly obvious they intend for you to utilize the Militarum Tempestus book and not AM.

I think the missed opportunity of the Millitarum Tempestus is that it would have been a good place to bring back Commissar cadets as a reimagined unit. Seeing as both Storm Troopers and Commissars attend the Schola Progenium it would make sense there would be some overlap.

Seems like a discussion that would be great for YMDC.