Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Kanluwen wrote:

Cephalobeard wrote:

gungo wrote:

Requizen wrote:

gungo wrote:
Are dedicated transports unit upgrades?

Even if they are, I don't think Taurox Primes can Deep Strike

Good thing the special rule gives it the ability to deep strike.
The rule doesn't say the new unit must deep strike.
It says the new unit is placed in ongoing reserves and the new unit arrives from deepstrike reserves.

If this is an identical unit purchase including all upgrades and weapons and models. Then having deepstriking battle cannons is extremely good.

1 scion command in a taurox prime from the formation
1 scion squad in a dedicated taurox prime transport
1 commissar inside a blob of 30+ guardsmen doing something useful like keeping them from failing morale tests.

Keep spamming special weapons and battle cannon transports until your opponent ignores it and goes after your blob.

This is the reason we need FAQs.

Don't misunderstand, I think you're wrong. It's pretty clear it's intended to only be the Scions. A Taurox, based on looking at the Codex, it doesnt SEEM to be an upgrade, it's a dedicated Transport.

** I'll add, this is just me THINKING you're wrong. I could complete be wrong, as well.

You're looking at the Astra Militarum book.

Militarum Tempestus was done in the style of all the current books, where transports can be purchased as Fast Attacks.
Since it's a "Start Collecting: Militarum Tempestus" set consisting of a Commissar, a Command Squad, a unit of Scions, and a Taurox Prime? It's blatantly obvious they intend for you to utilize the Militarum Tempestus book and not AM.

Im literally looking at my Hardcover MT Codex. Page 65, Tempestus Scions. "A Taurox (prime) may be taken as a dedicated transport."

Dont be a weiner.

 EnTyme wrote:

 EverlastingNewb wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 EverlastingNewb wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 EverlastingNewb wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
I am waiting for the Eldar one to be something like any blessing that affects the Farseer also affects units in 12" or something absurd like that.

all psychic powers are casted on a 2+ and invisibility in a 12" bubble?

Reduced Warp Charge requirement for powers by 1 and cast on a 2+.

Cast on a 2+, Reduced warp charge req. by 1 with to a minimum of 0 & added left over warp charges to the formations toughness - c'mon, it's eldar. Don't be so hard on them.

Technically, WC0 powers could be autodenied.

Wait, wouldn't it be auto-cast? You still have to deny it with 6+ or not?

I guess it would mean you would have to roll as many 6's as your opponent threw dice since each of his dice count as a success.

Yeah it really wouldn't mean that at all. It would be auto denied because the denying player only needs as many successful rolls as the caster rolled for the spell. If there were no successful rolls, the denying player has nothing to match against. Hence auto deny.

Wow! By just using a single Taurox dedicated transport and taking two of those formations, my Inquisition/Skitarii/Scion list got VERY interesting.

 Nevelon wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
The funniest part is those really should have been the rules for the damn AM formation, while the MT got the cover from their vehicle rules from the AM one.

I agree.

Send more men into the meatgrinder? Just another day in the guard.

Tactically advance, using available resources in an intelligent manner to preserve elite specialists? Scions.

Yea that would make so much sense for Imperial Guard. I'd love to see a formation where you have a 1+ platoon with some commissars and a company command. Allow the regular guardsmen to come back while the commissars, company command and platoon command are still alive. That would fit fluff so well, destroy the Guard command structure to stop the reinforcements. Or at least some formation like that not a formation that requires 170 infantry and 3 sentinels minimum.......

The commissar from the formation would probably be executed after sending multiple units of Scions into the fight that just keep dying... if he survived the fight. They're "elites" worth so much more than your basic infantryman.

Was talking with a friend about the CSM formation yesterday and I called exactly what the formation benefit was going to be.

At least it's good to know GW can't dissapoint me anymore.
P.s. GW, this is not a challenge

 Kanluwen wrote:

Cephalobeard wrote:
....
1 scion command in a taurox prime from the formation
1 scion squad in a dedicated taurox prime transport
1 commissar inside a blob of 30+ guardsmen doing something useful like keeping them from failing morale tests.
....

.....
Militarum Tempestus was done in the style of all the current books, where transports can be purchased as Fast Attacks.
Since it's a "Start Collecting: Militarum Tempestus" set consisting of a Commissar, a Command Squad, a unit of Scions, and a Taurox Prime? It's blatantly obvious they intend for you to utilize the Militarum Tempestus book and not AM.

Harlequins have a formation (The Serpent's Brood) that lists the transports in the unit list, and then states that the Troupes must take the Starweavers in the list as DTs.
This MT formation does not say that, so take the Taurox as a separate unit. Whether the scions can also take a DT as well depends on the codex entry for them (and I expect it does).
As for which book, the AM codex does not allow for a commissar as part of the MT platoon. They can be taken as a non-FOQ HQ choice, assigned to a unit, though. But they need a CCS or PCS to get one, and the MTCS does not count for that.

New WD images - from Miniwars.eu

http://www.miniwars.eu/2016/06/white-dwarf-125.html

Are those new Banshees in the 3rd picture? There are 3 with strange helmets, mixed in with older models.

DaPino wrote:
Was talking with a friend about the CSM formation yesterday and I called exactly what the formation benefit was going to be.

At least it's good to know GW can't dissapoint me anymore.
P.s. GW, this is not a challenge

Sorry - what is a wrathborn?

Likely the name of the formation.

 Skinnereal wrote:
Are those new Banshees in the 3rd picture? There are 3 with strange helmets, mixed in with older models.

Believe those are the old models. The rogue trader ones.

They are the most current ones, but look different probably due to the camera angle.

Neronoxx wrote:

 Skinnereal wrote:
Are those new Banshees in the 3rd picture? There are 3 with strange helmets, mixed in with older models.

Believe those are the old models. The rogue trader ones.

BrookM wrote:They are the most current ones, but look different probably due to the camera angle.

Somewhere in the middle:


I don’t think the modern ones have the flared helm.

 Uriels_Flame wrote:

DaPino wrote:
Was talking with a friend about the CSM formation yesterday and I called exactly what the formation benefit was going to be.

At least it's good to know GW can't dissapoint me anymore.
P.s. GW, this is not a challenge

Sorry - what is a wrathborn?

My 2 cents would be that it is the name of the formation.

However, with the way the formation is worded, if I take this formation more than once, the Lord gives hatred to other units that are not part of his specific formation. Helbrutes and CSM that are part of other Wrathborn formation are still technically wrathborn units.
Not that it makes the formation not suck, it's still one of the shittiest start collecting formations out there.

 Nevelon wrote:

Neronoxx wrote:

 Skinnereal wrote:
Are those new Banshees in the 3rd picture? There are 3 with strange helmets, mixed in with older models.

Believe those are the old models. The rogue trader ones.

BrookM wrote:They are the most current ones, but look different probably due to the camera angle.

Somewhere in the middle:

Spoiler:

I don’t think the modern ones have the flared helm.

Those are the metal models that came before the current ones, and, by the by, I can't effing believe that GW is actually doing this. And by "this" I mean glorifying the existing, terribly aged Eldar models with a few sentimental sentences about their creative origins and some pre-existing concept art (the art is still awesome, mind you) to boost their sales since they so obviously have no intention whatsoever of giving the Eldar range the update it so desperately needs.

I'm so sorry for elder players having to make do with what's easily still the game's single most gorgeous looking model range... Sure, it sucks that GW won't do plastic Aspects, or a proper Autarch kit, and the Avatar is in the same position as 3 of the 4 "current" Greater Daemon models.

But to seriously claim that the Eldar range is in worse shape & needs attention more than CSM's?

Sure, obvious Troll is obvious.

Experiment 626 wrote:
I'm so sorry for elder players having to make do with what's easily still the game's single most gorgeous looking model range... Sure, it sucks that GW won't do plastic Aspects, or a proper Autarch kit, and the Avatar is in the same position as 3 of the 4 "current" Greater Daemon models.

But to seriously claim that the Eldar range is in worse shape & needs attention more than CSM's?

The weird thing about Eldar is that they've had a huge range for a long time, and surprising chunks of their range have had very few updates over the years.

So while you have aspects with three metal and one finecast iteration (2nd, 3rd, and 4th editions), such as Banshees, Fire Dragons, Striking Scorps, Dark Reapers and Swooping Hawks, the Shining Spears and Warp Spiders have only one model. Dire Avengers had a metal, a metal/plastic hybrid kit, and the current plastics. However, none of the aspects have been updated in quite a while.

the Guardian sprue goes back to early 3rd edition, while the grav platform has had three metal generations and the current plastics. The Rangers were using 2nd models until 4th edition, while the 2nd edition Wraithguard lasted until 6th!

The Eldar have gotten a steady stream of gorgeous models, but they had, and still have, some aging sculpts.

All the Phoenix Lords, Eldrad and the Avatar are 2nd edition models too.

Experiment 626 wrote:
I'm so sorry for elder players having to make do with what's easily still the game's single most gorgeous looking model range... Sure, it sucks that GW won't do plastic Aspects, or a proper Autarch kit, and the Avatar is in the same position as 3 of the 4 "current" Greater Daemon models.

But to seriously claim that the Eldar range is in worse shape & needs attention more than CSM's?

Sure, obvious Troll is obvious.

No one claimed Eldar needed an update more than CSM, Just that they need an update. People are capable of thinking that multiple lines need an update. At the very least, CSM kits are multipart plastic and can kitbash with space marine and 30k kits to make something interesting. Most infantry Aspects are monopose and metal/resin. Kitbashing and converting is near impossible. Sure, you can convert Fire Dragons out of the Avengers kit and Swooping Hawks from Scourges but its extremely difficult to create passable conversions that look nice without extensive handsculpting.

Optimally, both would get updated into this decade; the Eldar have just as much a claim to a kit overhaul as CSM. To pretend otherwise is foolish

Experiment 626 wrote:
I'm so sorry for elder players having to make do with what's easily still the game's single most gorgeous looking model range... Sure, it sucks that GW won't do plastic Aspects, or a proper Autarch kit, and the Avatar is in the same position as 3 of the 4 "current" Greater Daemon models.

But to seriously claim that the Eldar range is in worse shape & needs attention more than CSM's?

Sure, obvious Troll is obvious.

It's not really that trollish a statement to make. The Eldar model range generally falls into two categories - 'somewhat recently renovated' or 'older than anything else in the game'. Some of the Eldar models still in production are much older than anything in the CSM range.

 Polonius wrote:

Experiment 626 wrote:
I'm so sorry for elder players having to make do with what's easily still the game's single most gorgeous looking model range... Sure, it sucks that GW won't do plastic Aspects, or a proper Autarch kit, and the Avatar is in the same position as 3 of the 4 "current" Greater Daemon models.

But to seriously claim that the Eldar range is in worse shape & needs attention more than CSM's?

The weird thing about Eldar is that they've had a huge range for a long time, and surprising chunks of their range have had very few updates over the years.

So while you have aspects with three metal and one finecast iteration (2nd, 3rd, and 4th editions), such as Banshees, Fire Dragons, Striking Scorps, Dark Reapers and Swooping Hawks, the Shining Spears and Warp Spiders have only one model. Dire Avengers had a metal, a metal/plastic hybrid kit, and the current plastics. However, none of the aspects have been updated in quite a while.

the Guardian sprue goes back to early 3rd edition, while the grav platform has had three metal generations and the current plastics. The Rangers were using 2nd models until 4th edition, while the 2nd edition Wraithguard lasted until 6th!

The Eldar have gotten a steady stream of gorgeous models, but they had, and still have, some aging sculpts.

Don't get me wrong, I can sympathise with Eldar players for the fact that they still have the majority of their infantry range languishing as older metal/Fineco$t kits. Meanwhile, those Shining Spears never looked that good from day 1 (and are still the old crappy 2nd ed jetbike), and barely go together properly.

But overall, despite being a bunch of 4th edition sculpts, (only Spears & Spiders are still 3rd/2nd ed), their range looks ****ing sexy!
Their basic Guardians have aged incredibly well!

But to claim that their model range is in desperate need of a re-do/overhaul?! Sure, maybe to modern plastics. Is it a top level priority? Feth no! CSM's get that honour, and that's only because Sisters of Bitter aren't a mainstream army!
I mean, if we're talking about purely the overall age of the model line, then outside of 4-5 kits, our entire range is early/mid 2000's, and Berserkers aren't even from the current millennium! (well, Guardians are in the same boat, but at least they don't have fists larger than their damn heads!)

Hell, I think most of the 2nd edition aspect warriors still look good, 20 years later.

Experiment 626 wrote:

 Polonius wrote:

Experiment 626 wrote:
I'm so sorry for elder players having to make do with what's easily still the game's single most gorgeous looking model range... Sure, it sucks that GW won't do plastic Aspects, or a proper Autarch kit, and the Avatar is in the same position as 3 of the 4 "current" Greater Daemon models.

But to seriously claim that the Eldar range is in worse shape & needs attention more than CSM's?

The weird thing about Eldar is that they've had a huge range for a long time, and surprising chunks of their range have had very few updates over the years.

So while you have aspects with three metal and one finecast iteration (2nd, 3rd, and 4th editions), such as Banshees, Fire Dragons, Striking Scorps, Dark Reapers and Swooping Hawks, the Shining Spears and Warp Spiders have only one model. Dire Avengers had a metal, a metal/plastic hybrid kit, and the current plastics. However, none of the aspects have been updated in quite a while.

the Guardian sprue goes back to early 3rd edition, while the grav platform has had three metal generations and the current plastics. The Rangers were using 2nd models until 4th edition, while the 2nd edition Wraithguard lasted until 6th!

The Eldar have gotten a steady stream of gorgeous models, but they had, and still have, some aging sculpts.

Don't get me wrong, I can sympathise with Eldar players for the fact that they still have the majority of their infantry range languishing as older metal/Fineco$t kits. Meanwhile, those Shining Spears never looked that good from day 1 (and are still the old crappy 2nd ed jetbike), and barely go together properly.

But overall, despite being a bunch of 4th edition sculpts, (only Spears & Spiders are still 3rd/2nd ed), their range looks ****ing sexy!
Their basic Guardians have aged incredibly well!

But to claim that their model range is in desperate need of a re-do/overhaul?! Sure, maybe to modern plastics. Is it a top level priority? Feth no! CSM's get that honour, and that's only because Sisters of Bitter aren't a mainstream army!
I mean, if we're talking about purely the overall age of the model line, then outside of 4-5 kits, our entire range is early/mid 2000's, and Berserkers aren't even from the current millennium! (well, Guardians are in the same boat, but at least they don't have fists larger than their damn heads!)

Some of the models still on sale for the Eldar now could be found in the Citadel Black Catalogue back in 1993. Another significant chunk were released in 1997/1998.

Trust me, nobody is winning a 'who has the oldest models' contest with the Eldar. Their range is the Two Face of model lines - half looks fairly shiny and new, the other half is extremely old and decrepit.

CSM, on the other hand, is mostly stuck in the uncanny valley of either very uninspiring newer stuff, or stuff that's just old enough to look tired but not cool or iconic.

Then you have Heretics like me who think that, with the possible exception of the plastic Dire Avengers, none of the updated Aspects are actually better than the early 90s metal originals.

Sometimes an updated model isn't a good thing.

*Waves a flag of victory*

Stormtroopers got an updated line before CSM and Eldar.

Was it akin to the much loved models of before? Was it an amazing plastic cast release for bulk purchases of Kasrkin and Inquisitional Stormtrooper models? No, but I take my victories where I can.

I quite like the Stormtrooper models. They look like what I would expect from Spec Ops in 40k, and the weaponry have really cool designs.

Though, I also like Tauroxes, so maybe my taste is just bad

Haha, maybe.

I plan on making a converted Stormtrooper army using Sicarian Rustalker torsos (cut down) and the stormtrooper everything else (cut down to magazines instead of cords and exclusively using the masked-beret head). So I do like the models, just not the breastplate part.

I just plan to use Krieg models myself. Still not sure if trying to convert the Taurox is worth it or if I just find an acceptable substitute.

Experiment 626 wrote:
I'm so sorry for elder players having to make do with what's easily still the game's single most gorgeous looking model range... Sure, it sucks that GW won't do plastic Aspects, or a proper Autarch kit, and the Avatar is in the same position as 3 of the 4 "current" Greater Daemon models.

But to seriously claim that the Eldar range is in worse shape & needs attention more than CSM's?

Sure, obvious Troll is obvious.

I wasn't trolling, and I wasn't saying that Eldar need the update MORE than any other faction, rather that they do need one. On top of that, CSM ARE getting an update of sorts in the near future (tsons, magnus and what not), whereas the picture of the article above is all about GW saying: "Just look how happy we are with the Eldar range, and we haven't got the slightest intention of changing it for years and years to come!"

There are two problems I have with this: the most characterful eldar units (read aspects and phoenix lords) are either ages old sculpts or in finecast, whereas they should be the centerpieces of an Eldar army- the rest of the range is woefully bland when compared to the aspects (even CSM have more characterful units with newer sculpts than Eldar: cultists, chosen, hellbrutes, -fiends, helldrakes- all much more interesting than guardians, guardians in/on different vehicles, wraith constructs which in turn look like bigger and skinnier guardians)

And the second: making all this fuss about Eldar in the WD with no intention of updating any part of their range.