Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Sinful Hero wrote:
Do Sanguinary Priests give FnP and IWND to Baal Predators? Those work on vehicles right, to recover Hull Points?

No, but it isn't like a Baal Predator that is stuck trying to maintain proximity to a Captain is going to be very useful in the first place. And only one turn of IWND is still pretty awful.

 SarisKhan wrote:

 Sinful Hero wrote:
Do Sanguinary Priests give FnP and IWND to Baal Predators? Those work on vehicles right, to recover Hull Points?

FnP doesn't, but IWND should.

Don't Soul Grinders get FnP somehow? Through a mark of some sort? I could've swore there was a thing about this, maybe it was 6th edition. But there were vehicles with FnP at some point, I'm sure of it!

Rihgu wrote:

 SarisKhan wrote:

 Sinful Hero wrote:
Do Sanguinary Priests give FnP and IWND to Baal Predators? Those work on vehicles right, to recover Hull Points?

FnP doesn't, but IWND should.

Don't Soul Grinders get FnP somehow? Through a mark of some sort? I could've swore there was a thing about this, maybe it was 6th edition. But there were vehicles with FnP at some point, I'm sure of it!

No, they have the Daemon rule, which is a 5+ invulnerable save.

Sort of sad about Blood Angels rules...but not surprised.

 Frozocrone wrote:

Rihgu wrote:

 SarisKhan wrote:

 Sinful Hero wrote:
Do Sanguinary Priests give FnP and IWND to Baal Predators? Those work on vehicles right, to recover Hull Points?

FnP doesn't, but IWND should.

Don't Soul Grinders get FnP somehow? Through a mark of some sort? I could've swore there was a thing about this, maybe it was 6th edition. But there were vehicles with FnP at some point, I'm sure of it!

No, they have the Daemon rule, which is a 5+ invulnerable save.

Sort of sad about Blood Angels rules...but not surprised.

Yeah, I guess I don't even know why I thought they might get something useful. The Red-Headed-Stepchild Loyalist Marines will always be garbage as a reaction to the few months where they weren't.

I have a sneaking suspicion that not many people are buying these boxes for the rules.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 SickSix wrote:
Why should BA get everything C:SM gets? C:SM doesn't get everything BA get!

I tell you what, when my Salamanders can take Baal Predators your BA can have Grav.

Right now BA are more Flamey than Salamanders. What sense does that make? Flamer tanks, heavy flamers in Tac squads, hand flamers and meltas.

Get over it.

I don't think they should have everything that C:SM get. Perhaps some things, but not all. I think the flyers would be appropriate, since Blood Angels pilots are supposed to be the ace pilots among the Space Marines. The flak tanks aren't as much of an issue. BA don't need Thunderfire Cannons, they have other anti-infantry platforms.

I thought Hawk Lords were supposed too be the Ace Pilots amongst Space Marines, considering other chapters send them their pilots to learn under them.

I think the Blood Angels really need some price reductions on their unique units, and Jump Psck equipped Assault Marines as troops.

 Crazyterran wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 SickSix wrote:
Why should BA get everything C:SM gets? C:SM doesn't get everything BA get!

I tell you what, when my Salamanders can take Baal Predators your BA can have Grav.

Right now BA are more Flamey than Salamanders. What sense does that make? Flamer tanks, heavy flamers in Tac squads, hand flamers and meltas.

Get over it.

I don't think they should have everything that C:SM get. Perhaps some things, but not all. I think the flyers would be appropriate, since Blood Angels pilots are supposed to be the ace pilots among the Space Marines. The flak tanks aren't as much of an issue. BA don't need Thunderfire Cannons, they have other anti-infantry platforms.

I thought Hawk Lords were supposed too be the Ace Pilots amongst Space Marines, considering other chapters send them their pilots to learn under them.

I think the Blood Angels really need some price reductions on their unique units, and Jump Psck equipped Assault Marines as troops.

Hawk Lords are, but Blood Angels aren't far behind. You don't hear about Hawk Lords doing crazy stuff like flying Thunderhawk Transporters right into the middle of battle and dropping tanks.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I have a sneaking suspicion that not many people are buying these boxes for the rules.

More the savings.

Even though I utterly loathe Age of Gakmar the Lizardmen box (not calling it that other name. Waaaaaay too many dodgy results if you search for in on Google. Like GW don't know what lies on the internet ) has some crazy good value.

I never understood why people harp on about these boxes being good or not based on a chit of paper in them.

Really, they're beginner boxes/ boxes designed to help players pad out their forces. So if anything perhaps they should be judged on whether what they provide is a solid core or expansion and actually has a reasonable discount?

Crazy talk, right?

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I have a sneaking suspicion that not many people are buying these boxes for the rules.

More the savings.

Even though I utterly loathe Age of Gakmar the Lizardmen box (not calling it that other name. Waaaaaay too many dodgy results if you search for in on Google. Like GW don't know what lies on the internet ) has some crazy good value.

I never understood why people harp on about these boxes being good or not based on a chit of paper in them.

Really, they're beginner boxes/ boxes designed to help players pad out their forces. So if anything perhaps they should be judged on whether what they provide is a solid core or expansion and actually has a reasonable discount?

Crazy talk, right?

Yeah. Those boxes suck. I mean, veteran players probably have multiples of the models included and the formation rules aren't that great. What did GW think when designing them? That they're an excellent discount for a new player to start an army? Madness indeed.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I have a sneaking suspicion that not many people are buying these boxes for the rules.

More the savings.

Even though I utterly loathe Age of Gakmar the Lizardmen box (not calling it that other name. Waaaaaay too many dodgy results if you search for in on Google. Like GW don't know what lies on the internet ) has some crazy good value.

I never understood why people harp on about these boxes being good or not based on a chit of paper in them.

Really, they're beginner boxes/ boxes designed to help players pad out their forces. So if anything perhaps they should be judged on whether what they provide is a solid core or expansion and actually has a reasonable discount?

Crazy talk, right?

Yeh. I have got eldar one already as it's good start. Now I'm eyeballing the AOS one for chaos warriors to kickstart daemon world army for 2nd ed chaos and the CSM one for...Well that's obvious

Formation rules are bonus but it's discount that matters.

Now yes if you have the BA character already and don't need him...Well less useful. But that box isn't meant to be everybody can find use for multiples. They are for starting armies. Hint is in the name

The funny thing is, I'm going to buy a Start Collecting BA kit just to get another Baal Predator. Not because I even want to field one, but because the only Baal Predator I own I painted way back when the model came out, and I want to paint a new one to match my new BA army.

If you're going to buy one anyhow, $27 for another tactical squad and a Karlaen is pretty good.

Not that I need more of either >.<


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Nostromodamus wrote:
I love how they get It Will Not Die because they're emulating Sanguinius who... died

LOL. Yeah, the irony

Maybe just foreshadowing that even though It Will Not Die... it... Will. Die, that is!

 SarisKhan wrote:

 Sinful Hero wrote:
Do Sanguinary Priests give FnP and IWND to Baal Predators? Those work on vehicles right, to recover Hull Points?

FnP doesn't, but IWND should.

IWND - once per game you roll 5+. I barley hope that anyone would play this formation 3 game just to regain 1 hullpoint.
On a vehicle with 11 side and 10 rear AV. It such a relif! Even then it will probably be shaken or stunned.

I just can't understand - what kind of person would thought that this bonuses ARE SO GREAT that should last only one turn?
I mean - i understand how some things can be a one-use only - like missiles - it's an active tool - and you know that it will probably do something - it can miss but you at least rolled it.
While this ability is passive - they mean that someone should fire at you or something - and even then enemy may choose not to.
And heck even if opponent would attack you, 5+ it's not that thing that you can rely on.

Looking at the most of the rules - even the ork one looks more useful althogh it's a one use only.

The worst formation from start collecting series. And the best box set to start (or improve) blood angels collection.

Nah worst rules belong to Orks. At least with this one you can choose to use it whenever. For Orks they need to be in combat for at least one turn...no guarantees of that happening though.

 Talys wrote:
The funny thing is, I'm going to buy a Start Collecting BA kit just to get another Baal Predator. Not because I even want to field one, but because the only Baal Predator I own I painted way back when the model came out, and I want to paint a new one to match my new BA army.

If you're going to buy one anyhow, $27 for another tactical squad and a Karlaen is pretty good.

Not that I need more of either >.<

It's clever really. It not only converts a £30 sale to a £50 sale, it makes that initial item more attractive because of the perceived saving, AND like you said a lot of the time people don't *need* the bundled stuff anyway. So what do you do with those extra marines? No good just having them lie around. So you start a new army, of course! And then buy them a transport and a dreadnought and... £££

 Bull0 wrote:
It's clever really. It not only converts a £30 sale to a £50 sale, it makes that initial item more attractive because of the perceived saving, AND like you said a lot of the time people don't *need* the bundled stuff anyway. So what do you do with those extra marines? No good just having them lie around. So you start a new army, of course! And then buy them a transport and a dreadnought and... £££

Yep.

And then there's nutters who DO want lots of duplicates. I can for example see myself getting several start collecting: Chaos. Why? I plan to make smallish forces of EVERY chaos legion plus maybe custom chaos marine force as well.

Especially good since in 2nd edition I don't need 50 marines and 10 vechiles for an army. 20 marines and 2 vechiles is plenty

If the BA Start Collecting had ANY other BA character model in it besides Karlaen, I would have bought it on the spot. Since it has a named character model in it, the formation was going to be the only saving grace (I can get a Baal Predator and Tactical squad for cheaper than $85). Since the formation is crap, I see no need whatsoever to waste my money on this boxed set (the Karlaen model is still a waste since I would have to go through the trouble of selling him).

I sold my karlaen dupe (i bought 2 deathstorm boxes) about a week before the start collecting box was announced and managed to get about a tenner for it. Doubt it'd get that much now. Would have been awesome to have that new chaplain in there instead, I'd have bought it immediately.

My biggest bugbear is that the guard and stormtrooper boxes both have the same completely crap commissar model in them. Lame.

Has anyone charted the best savings for a box?

I'm thinking the Storm Troopers but haven't done the math.

 Crazyterran wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

Get over it.

I don't think they should have everything that C:SM get. Perhaps some things, but not all. I think the flyers would be appropriate, since Blood Angels pilots are supposed to be the ace pilots among the Space Marines. The flak tanks aren't as much of an issue. BA don't need Thunderfire Cannons, they have other anti-infantry platforms.

I thought Hawk Lords were supposed too be the Ace Pilots amongst Space Marines, considering other chapters send them their pilots to learn under them.

Savings in CAD:

Deldar: $55
Militarum tempestus: $67
Eldar: 48.50
BA(assuming Karlean is $30): 51.25. 21.25 without, naturally.

Azazelx wrote:


There can be more than one chapter that is exceptionally good at something, and not all chapters are going to be bestest buds with the BAs or even anywhere physically near them.

Look at is this way - there are approximately 1,000 chapters in canon. There are 190 +60 + 5 countries in the world, now think of the top-tier Elite special forces here on Earth. How many are there? Now we'll be conservative and roll all the US forces into SOCOM and all of the Russians into "Spetsnaz". Then add SAS/SBS, SASR/4RAR, GIGN, GSG-9, GROM, CANSOFCOM, Shayatet 13 and I'll just stop there. There's quite a few more good places to send your guys here on Earth, and lots of those guys cross-train with each other, anyway...

You misquoted, :p

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
If the BA Start Collecting had ANY other BA character model in it besides Karlaen, I would have bought it on the spot. Since it has a named character model in it, the formation was going to be the only saving grace (I can get a Baal Predator and Tactical squad for cheaper than $85). Since the formation is crap, I see no need whatsoever to waste my money on this boxed set (the Karlaen model is still a waste since I would have to go through the trouble of selling him).

Tac squad 34€, predator 46€, total 80€.

Start collecting 65€.

Discount before even character.

And generally discount stores have same discount for start collecting force for even more of discount. My standard source for models give it with current exchange rate for 53€.

I could throw that guy in a trashcan and still get it cheaper.

I could build the predator as rhino(assuming it doesn't lack some crucial part), throw captain to garbage bin and be pretty much same with some spare vechile parts.

Yeah. I can live with crappy formation rules. Those aren't key things of these boxes anyway.

tneva82 wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
If the BA Start Collecting had ANY other BA character model in it besides Karlaen, I would have bought it on the spot. Since it has a named character model in it, the formation was going to be the only saving grace (I can get a Baal Predator and Tactical squad for cheaper than $85). Since the formation is crap, I see no need whatsoever to waste my money on this boxed set (the Karlaen model is still a waste since I would have to go through the trouble of selling him).

Tac squad 34€, predator 46€, total 80€.

Start collecting 65€.

Discount before even character.

And generally discount stores have same discount for start collecting force for even more of discount. My standard source for models give it with current exchange rate for 53€.

I could throw that guy in a trashcan and still get it cheaper.

I could build the predator as rhino(assuming it doesn't lack some crucial part), throw captain to garbage bin and be pretty much same with some spare vechile parts.

Yeah. I can live with crappy formation rules. Those aren't key things of these boxes anyway.

I agree with this. Even though the Baal predator is not worth its points. The fact that you can just build it as a Rhino works. The Rhino and the Tactical squad are $80 at GW not including tax. You can pick it up on Ebay for under $70. Probably worth it to expand even though the rules are trash.

I have been looking at buying another Tac squad and turning them into Assault marines anyway.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Frozocrone wrote:

Rihgu wrote:

 SarisKhan wrote:

 Sinful Hero wrote:
Do Sanguinary Priests give FnP and IWND to Baal Predators? Those work on vehicles right, to recover Hull Points?

FnP doesn't, but IWND should.

Don't Soul Grinders get FnP somehow? Through a mark of some sort? I could've swore there was a thing about this, maybe it was 6th edition. But there were vehicles with FnP at some point, I'm sure of it!

No, they have the Daemon rule, which is a 5+ invulnerable save.

Sort of sad about Blood Angels rules...but not surprised.

Yeah, I guess I don't even know why I thought they might get something useful. The Red-Headed-Stepchild Loyalist Marines will always be garbage as a reaction to the few months where they weren't.

This is going to be an unpopular opinion, I'm sure, but I'm going to put this out there. It seems like all of the newer formations have been toned downs significantly, and that's a good thing. It seems like GW is starting to see how ridiculous the power creep was getting. The problem is they left the previous OP formations as-is, so there is once again a major gap between, for example, the Necron Decurion and the Ork Decurion. I'm just hoping that future updates will tone down those stronger formations and codices.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
If the BA Start Collecting had ANY other BA character model in it besides Karlaen, I would have bought it on the spot. Since it has a named character model in it, the formation was going to be the only saving grace (I can get a Baal Predator and Tactical squad for cheaper than $85). Since the formation is crap, I see no need whatsoever to waste my money on this boxed set (the Karlaen model is still a waste since I would have to go through the trouble of selling him).

This is a complete joke
No one buys box sets for the exclusive formstion paper in the box.
It's on the internet within a day as a PDF.
I'm 99% sure you didn't buy every single book or white dwarf or box set unfit every formstion you played
Skyhammer I play against all the freakin time and until recently(Angels of death) no one I played ever bought that box set.
So claiming you would have bought this box set even though you don't need or want these models is the biggest joke I've seen in w long time.

I've never seen anyone waste a sanguine priest on a random tac squad so people claiming they would pay more points to get fnp from a sanguine priest is a also a joke. This formstion isn't that great but its fine as s start collecting bonus. None of the start collection formstions are competitive. It should have just been fnp for the squad while near the captain the entire game.

The Ork formstion is by far the worst. It was a nice idea but horrible implementation and is nearly impossible to gain any benefit from it. It should have simply been allowing the units in the formstion to charge and assault during the shooting phase. Which would have allowed them to move, charge and assault( shooting phase), charge and assault again( assault Phase). Thus increasing thier charge range and essentially doubling thier attacks

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I have a sneaking suspicion that not many people are buying these boxes for the rules.

Fixed That For You


Automatically Appended Next Post:

gungo wrote:
None of the start collection formstions are competitive.

have you played with the Necron one? Its rules are ambiguous, but read literally it's bonkers.

 axisofentropy wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I have a sneaking suspicion that not many people are buying these boxes for the rules.

Fixed That For You

If you're talking about BA, then sure, but if you're talking about Get Started! in general, then you're dead wrong, those things sell like hotcakes. Well, depending on army, but people love the savings make no mistake.

Some of these boxes sell amazingly well, the Mechanicus one in particular is an amazing deal.

Picked up three of the Admech set. Too good a deal to pass up.

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/ultramarines-dice

Ultramarine Dice?

And again the symbol on the one
...still want IF dice though!