Sima Jiong was a highly regarded young official who was once considered a proper heir, even to Emperor Wu, though he was eventually expelled from the capital. As an imperial prince, Sima Jiong had many imperial troops under his command, and as a well-regarded government official, he supported the initial coup against Empress Jia for the threat she formed to the existing power structure. He then allied against the initial ursurper, Sima Lun, and through the success of this alliance, Sima Jiong became increasingly abusive of his position and increasingly power hungry.
PLAYSTYLE
A most capable military commander and known for his domineering attitude, Sima Jiong works best when taking matters into his own hands. His resource – Control – is won through military feats and by building a network of judiciary buildings, but is diminished by having other characters take up ministerial positions within the faction: nobody can hope to be his equal in government! A balanced approach is possible however; by maintaining a high level of control, Sima Jiong can curb corruption and public order issues, though he risks dissatisfying his generals by denying them the promotions they desire!
GUANXI
Wang Bao was a government official and commander who tried to maintain order and lawfulness within the empire. He became a supporter of Sima Jiong and later gave some valuable historical accounts during the conflict between Sima Jiong and the alliance of Sima Ying, Yong, and Ai.
START POSITION
As the Prince of Qi, Sima Jiong has a powerful starting position owning properties in two different commanderies: The commandery of Beihai, a valuable breadbasket, and the entirety of Taishan commandery, including its trade port. After eliminating his initial opposition in Beihai, his position is relatively secure. The road to the capital is free, but he will have to be wary of the opposition of the other princes when heading towards the centre of the map. He will need to seek allies and choose his strategy wisely, or he will see himself isolated diplomatically.
WHAT KIND OF PLAYER IS HE FOR?
Players who want the challenge of maintaining a faction where the true power lies largely in the hands of a single warlord should opt for Sima Jiong. He’s perfect for the decisive and domineering individual!
I had toyed with ignoring the minister stuff during a playthrough as the Tyrant faction, but the benefits usually outweighed the negatives. My method was to build up “Intimidation” or to promote someone right before a battle that you knew you were going to win. Your meter goes down after the promotion, then goes back up after winning the battle. There would be a negative balance sometimes, but it definitely softens the hit that a promotion costs.
Its an interesting mechanic that makes you think about your decisions.
Handsome, but never considered the sharpest tool in the box, Sima Ying developed a good reputation as being filial and lenient, and for listening to the advice of his capable advisor Lu Zhi. As his influence grew however, he became power-hungry and arrogant, and increasingly involved in political schemes. It is unclear if this was due to Lu Zhi’s manipulation, or whether Lu Zhi was the one who actually kept him in control. He became the Prince of Chengdu when he was only 10 years old, but was later transferred to another office after disrespecting Emperor Hui’s son Sima Yu. He was placed in charge of the military defence post for the important city of Yecheng, which was a backwater, but an important breadbasket all the same.
Playstyle
Sima Ying knows his intellectual limitations, and thus relies on powerful advisors to lead his faction, an empowered council who have a wider impact on how the faction is run. This means that choosing the right ministers is of vital importance for Sima Ying, and powerful synergies can be created from combining the right characters for these offices.
Guanxi
Sima Ying starts with two trusted advisors. One is Lu Zhi, his loyal advisor, who some refer to as the key mind behind Sima Ying’s ascent to power. The other is Lu Ji, a former imperial chancellor of the Eastern Wu, who is a famous writer and literary critic. He also acts as one of Sima Ying’s military commanders.
Start Position
Sima Ying starts in control of Chengdu Commandery, and is well-nested in one of the most prominent breadbasket regions in Ancient China. Consequently, his starting position is very secure and quite powerful. To the north and south, his neighbours are friendly, but conflict is brewing with the Princes in Hanzhong and Ba, both of which are friends with Sima Wei, so conflict between Sima Ying and Sima Wei might be unavoidable.
What kind of player is he for?
Sima Ying is for players who know that a ruler cannot operate on his own. He is for those who believe that a wise ruler surrounds himself with capable allies and loyal followers, and allows these advisors to shape and direct the future of his faction.
Seems like he can get a powerful economy with his faction bonuses and not have to worry too much about character satisfaction/ province rebellions, I suppose. And starting out at one extreme of the map, he only has essentially one war front to worry about. North of him are mountains that take forever to navigate and the provinces south of him border a river which also takes some time to cross. Dude can get a powerful base of operations pretty quickly.
Probably one of the easier factions to play, judging off his start position and faction bonuses, but who knows what dilemma's might pop up.
WHO IS HE?
When Emperor Wu died, Sima Liang – fourth son of the great Sima Yi – was denied the regency by the scheming Yang Jun, eager to maintain control over Emperor Hui for himself. Honourable and eager to avoid conflict, Sima Liang retired to his estates until, following a coup, Yang Jun was overthrown. Sima Liang was finally given an opportunity to help restore order. It was not long before the ambitious and fearful Empress Jia issued false orders to Sima Wei – Sima Liang’s great nephew – declaring Sima Liang a traitor and ordering his capture. Tragically, the tempestuous Sima Wei had Sima Liang executed after his capture, the first casualty of the War of the Eight Princes. One cannot help but wonder what might have been had Sima Liang made a stand…
PLAYSTYLE
Sima Liang is the rightful imperial regent, as decreed by the late Emperor Wu, but at every turn has had his efforts to establish peace and order thwarted by the ambitions of others. Now accused of treason by Empress Jia and hunted by his kinsman Sima Wei, he must re-establish his lawful jurisdiction over the people, thereby allowing him to expand without reprisal. He can achieve this maintaining a small but well-developed domain, growing tall whilst securing the cooperation of vassal princedoms to support his claim.
GUANXI
Sima Liang’s family cannot stand idly-by as he faces the repercussions of Empress Jia’s accusations of treachery! He is joined in his campaign by his two sons, Sima Ju – his heir – and Sima Cui, both eager to help restore their father’s reputation and oust the corrupt from power.
START POSITION
The Prince of Runan presides over his lands south of Luoyang, the local mines providing a steady stream of industrial income. His lands are under threat however; in the wake of his branding as a traitor, he now finds himself beset from the west by the princes of Nanyang, Shunyang and Jiangling, and with Sima Wei only a short march away. As such, he must look eastward for support: Cao Huan, the last emperor of Wei and now Prince of Chenliu, is a man of honour who may be eager to support Sima Liang’s restoration.
WHAT KIND OF PLAYER IS HE FOR?
Sima Liang’s playstyle is suited to those who wish to grow tall, preferring slow expansion and a focus on establishing one’s lawful right to rule and developing one’s domain whilst creating a network of vassals to help establish a strong position in the world.
This one looks to be my favorite so far. From his start location, it seems like he'll have enemies at his door right out of the gate, which is how I like my Total War.
The quoted text mentions the last Wei emperor. It's worth noting that ancient China had a tradition of allowing a reigning emperor to "voluntarily" abdicate from the throne. Emperor Xian, the last Han emperor, abdicated in favor of Cao Pi, Cao Cao's heir. Emperor Xian was given a title of nobility (duke, iirc), and allowed to live out the rest of his life. It's believed that Sima Zhou (second son of Sima Yi, and therefore Sima Liang's older brother), was planning on doing the same to the current Wei emperor. But Zhou died before he could go through with it, and his son ended up being the one to make it happen. That emperor was also granted a title of nobility, and allowed to live out his life.
That's not to say that the abdicated ruler wasn't viewed with suspicion on some political circles. But that's how the idea worked in theory.
Sun Hao, the last Wu emperor also lived out his life. He was made a Marquis (with a somewhat insulting title) by Sima Yan and his sons became junior officials. Pretty sure one of them ended up being important in something. Can't remember what.
LordofHats wrote: Sun Hao, the last Wu emperor also lived out his life. He was made a Marquis (with a somewhat insulting title) by Sima Yan and his sons became junior officials. Pretty sure one of them ended up being important in something. Can't remember what.
Liu Shan, the emperor of Shu Han, was also allowed to retire and live the rest of his days in peace. But both of those men were essentially conquored rulers. The abdication tradition allowed for an internal insurrection in which the ruler was displaced by a member of his own country, but allowed to retain his life and the perks of nobility. In most countries, such an individual would be executed as a safety precaution.
Of course, by the time someone was in a position to force the Emperor to abdicate, the emperor usually had no political power and thus no ability to foment trouble for his successor.
WHO IS HE?
Known for finding skilled associates and assistants, Sima Yong had the reputation of being a capable military commander and a good defender, and was tasked with the defence of the city of Chang’an. Sima Yong had a good reputation among other government officials, and was cited as a “great example of filialty”, but later showed more shrewd characteristics by switching sides in various conflicts. He’s one of most experienced leaders (military and civic) among the eight princes, having taken his office in 277.
PLAYSTYLE
Sima Yong is a commander and knows how to exploit the military even for civic purposes. Despite his experience, he needs to be mindful and take the right precautions – he won’t find victory in this conflict by rushing into glorious battle. Instead, calculated security and utilising his military to boost the infrastructural development of his commanderies are the keys to Sima Yong’s success.
GUANXI
One of Sima Yong’s most trusted advisors is Zhang Fang, one of the most prominent military generals and commanders during the war of the Eight Princes. Zhang Fang is hightly capable, but is known to make sacrifices whenever it serves his cause – he famously deported and slaughtered 10000 slaves and fed them to his troops.
START POSITION
Sima Yong starts in the north-east, in Pingyuan commandery, a potent industrial centre of salt production. Sima Yong is at war with the Prince of Zhangwu, in Bohai commandery to the north, which invites an early expansion northwards and makes consolidation of the north a valid early-to-mid game strategy. Later on, Sima Yong will want to turn southwards, towards the capital, to compete with the other princes – most prominently Sima Lun.
WHAT KIND OF PLAYERS IS HE FOR?
Sima Yong encourages a conservative and defensive playstyle where you progress cautiously, while building up your defences and your infrastructure. Your settlements will generally be better protected from enemies, and you can use your military to make developing your infrastructure more efficient.
This guy and the previous one are my favorites so far, Probably going to start with this guy though.
Speaking of victor, who historically won the main campaign?
This DLC is a sequel to that event from what I gather, but I don't recognize any character names in any of these lore blurbs. Isn't this only a generation or two after the end of the Three Kingdoms, or did I read incorrectly?
I'm subscribed to a Three Kingdoms podcast to understand the lore and politics between the characters, but I haven't even started.
nels1031 wrote: Speaking of victor, who historically won the main campaign?
Do you mean the War of Eight Princes, or the Three Kingdoms?
The War of Eight Princes was nominally won by Sima Yue, but that was a rather empty victory since the Jin rapidly suffered in the Wu Hu uprising (essentially analogous to the Goths rising up against the Romans).
Of the Three Kingdoms, the winner was more or less the Sima family. After Cao Cao's death, his descendants Cao Pi and Cao Rui were capable. However, Sima Yi gradually came into conflict with others over the regency and support of Cao Rui's successor Cao Fang. Sima Yi won that conflict, and his sons Sima Shi and Sima Zhao in succession deposed the last Wei emperors and founded the Jin Dynasty in 266. Cao-Wei exploited weakness and division in the Shu-Han Court to rapidly conquer Shu-Han in 263, and the Jin would take advantage of disorder and weakened defenses to conquer Eastern Wu in 280.
Depending on how you look at it, either none of the Three Kingdoms won, or Cao-Wei won but as the early Jin Dynasty (a big part of the romanticization of the Era is the subsequent conflicts and rule over the Han Chinese by non-Chinese groups in coming centuries, which the Jin generally take blame for culturally, so people look back at the Three Kingdoms are the more legitimate successors to the Han).
Southern China did remain under Han control under the Eastern Jin Dynasty. Geographically, it was much larger than the northern regions. But the population was more sparse, which balanced things out (and is also why the north was considered "more important").
As far as the Three Kingdoms are concerned, Wei (under the Sima family) was the only kingdom in the later period to have good leadership. Liu Bei's son. Liu Shan, is believed to have been a little slow mentally (and there are those who blame this on his being dropped on his head by his father during a particular apocryphal incident). And his lead general was obsessed with all-out war against Wei, leading to expensive campaigns that the country couldn't afford.
I don't know much about Wu's ruler during the late period. But based on what I've heard, it seems as if he may have been full-on malevolent.
As for Wei -
Sima Yi and his two oldest sons - Shi and Zhao - were very smart and talented. Cao Cao was able to safely utilize their talents, as were his initial heirs. But Sima Yi grew unhappy about the extravagences of later heirs. He also got into a squabble with his co-regent. When the squabble erupted, he initially pretended to concede to his co-regent. But when the latter made the mistake of taking most of his supporters on a hinting trip, Sima Yi seized control of the capitol. Once he had that, he was effectively the one running the country.
Eastern Wu basically suffered Sun Quan becoming a bit demented in his old age. During his youth he was an extremely capable ruler, arguably the best of the three men he competed with for most of his life (Liu Chan, Cao Pi, and Cao Rui). Unfortunately he became unstable in his old age.
During a spat between two sons, one of whom was Crown Prince, Sun Quan overreacted. One was executed and the other he exiled. This left only his youngest sons to rule on his death, which sparked a series of violent succession crises in Eastern W. Sun Xiu was nominally capable but died relatively early into his rule which sparked another series of succession crisises (Mostly wars over regency of the state, since most of the last Sun family emperors were all young).
During this time Wu was still secure because of extremely competent and widely loved administrators and generals from the Ding, Lu, Zhuge, and Kong families. Regular rebellions and succession crises took their toll however and Jin conquored Wu when the last Emperor, Sun Hao, proved to be fairly incapable of ruling wisely and tended to kill and exile people who told him things he didn't want to hear. This resulted in a weakening of Wu's armies and defenses, making way for Jin armies to quickly defeat the state.
‘Dynasty Mode’ coming. Doesn’t really appeal to me at all, but I’m sure some will enjoy it.
The brand-new Dynasty Mode for Total War: THREE KINGDOMS will be released alongside the Eight Princes Chapter Pack DLC on Thursday the 8th of August 2019. Developed in partnership with Intel, Dynasty Mode is a new horde-style arcade mode for Total War: THREE KINGDOMS where you choose three heroes to fight off as many waves of units as you can.
Check out our handy FAQ below for everything there is to know about Dynasty Mode!
FAQ WHAT IS DYNASTY MODE?
Dynasty Mode is a new horde-style arcade mode for Total War: THREE KINGDOMS where you choose three heroes to fight off as many waves of enemy units as you can.
Made in partnership with Intel, the mode will take extra advantage of your hardware to render larger and larger unit sizes depending on your PC’s spec.
Dynasty Mode challenges you to create a composition of different character classes who complement each other in battle, thus achieving swift destruction of the enemy while still surviving to fight off future waves.
HOW MANY PEOPLE CAN PLAY DYNASTY MODE AT ONCE?
Dynasty Mode can be played solo or online in three-player co-op mode with friends.
HOW ARE CHARACTERS DIFFERENT IN DYNASTY MODE?
Characters are legendarily powerful, far more so than in Romance Mode, while troops are weaker – in fact, they will fall to a single blow. Characters also have powerful new abilities with which to heal each other or fell ranks of troops at a stroke, and gain upgrades to spend between waves on further skills.
Enemy waves grow in strength and size over time, and every third wave contains powerful enemy heroes, which characters can earn extra upgrades by slaying.
Players can also up the challenge by expanding enemy unit sizes by up to 600%, testing their heroes’ skills – and their PCs’ performance – to the max!
HOW DOES SCORING WORK IN DYNASTY MODE?
Points are awarded:
Every time you damage a unit
Every time you kill a unit or cause them to retreat
At the end of a wave
Each unit is worth 1,000 points once they have been completely destroyed, with up to 20,000 points in total up for grabs following completion based on how fast you finish the wave. This bonus slowly ticks down over time, and will reach 0 if you spend 10 minutes or more trying to clear a wave.
WILL INCREASING UNIT SIZES IN DYNASTY MODE AFFECT MY GAME’S PERFORMANCE?
Dynasty Mode was developed in conjunction with Intel’s engineers to help the THREE KINGDOMS engine take better advantage of multi-core CPUs. Increasing unit sizes creates a greater CPU overhead, with more unit interactions and calculations required at the entity level. This enhanced multithreading enables superior performance the more cores the CPU has, so moving from quad-core to hex-core and eight-core processors is where you see the greatest framerate gains.
Dynasty Mode’s required specifications are the same as the main Total War: THREE KINGDOMS game, and as it has been developed with Intel it will work with all hardware. However, unless you have a very high-powered PC, dramatically increasing unit sizes may negatively impact your frame rate or cause gameplay behaviours you won’t see in the main game.
WHEN WILL THE DYNASTY MODE BE RELEASED?
The update which includes Dynasty Mode will be automatically downloaded for all owners of Total War: THREE KINGDOMS alongside the release of the Eight Princes DLC on Thursday the 8th of August 2019.
IS THERE A PRE-PURCHASE DISCOUNT?
Dynasty Mode will be available to download for free!
WILL IT BE RELEASED ON MACOS AND LINUX?
Dynasty Mode will be released on macOS and Linux shortly after its release on PC.
Grey Templar wrote: Not that I'm aware of. Besides, the way you'd beat that would just be to have Kholek Suneater.
I’d mainly just want to see what the mage characters can do, flinging spells out left and right. Which I suppose I could do in a custom battle in some fashion, but this mode just looks more fun than that.
Grey Templar wrote: Not that I'm aware of. Besides, the way you'd beat that would just be to have Kholek Suneater.
I’d mainly just want to see what the mage characters can do, flinging spells out left and right. Which I suppose I could do in a custom battle in some fashion, but this mode just looks more fun than that.
I need to get my PC fixed :(
You'd have to give them unlimited magic to draw on or a highly accelerated winds of magic regeneration. Mages in WH:TW usually get a few big spells off and then fizzle out. Which is fine since most battles last less than 5 minutes, but in a perpetual tower defense situation it would not be great. They're still characters so they'll beat down grunts in droves, but they'll die eventually as they're still squishy.
Grey Templar wrote: Not that I'm aware of. Besides, the way you'd beat that would just be to have Kholek Suneater.
I’d mainly just want to see what the mage characters can do, flinging spells out left and right. Which I suppose I could do in a custom battle in some fashion, but this mode just looks more fun than that.
I need to get my PC fixed :(
You'd have to give them unlimited magic to draw on or a highly accelerated winds of magic regeneration. Mages in WH:TW usually get a few big spells off and then fizzle out. Which is fine since most battles last less than 5 minutes, but in a perpetual tower defense situation it would not be great. They're still characters so they'll beat down grunts in droves, but they'll die eventually as they're still squishy.
Yeah, I'd assume that if they added this mode to WH1+2(probs just WH2 at this poitnt) that it would have a magic regen mechanic, like this mode has health regen.
More I think about it, the more this mode is appealing to me. Not something I'd sink hours into, but could be fun for a bit.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Last Prince, and the eventual "winner" as I believe someone mentioned above.
WHO IS HE?
Sima Yue is an efficient bureaucrat and shrewd powermonger who mastered the political game better than the other Princes. He used the intricacies of the court, and his own machinations, to not only outmanoeuvre his rival princes, but also to contain the power of the Emperors Hui and Huai. As a cousin of the Jin dynasty’s founder Emperor Wu, his tenure as Prince of Donghai began in 291, and during the war of the eight princes, he held numerous offices in the capital and within the Jin government.
PLAYSTYLE
Sima Yue is about exercising his authority and maintaining his political influence. This is measured by his ‘Influence’ resource, which he can accumulate by overseeing local government through powerful assignments, performed by the most influential people within his faction. He also has two unique government positions that increase the efficiency of his administration. Even though military is not his focus, he will have to be mindful not to be bested on the battlefield, as defeat in battle will diminish his Influence. High Influence means bonuses to construction and settlement development, and a faster pace for implementing reforms.
GUANXI
Sima Yue is accompanied by his loyal officer, He Lun, who stayed by his side throughout the whole conflict. Equally, Princess Pei, Sima Yue’s wife, is worth mentioning as a character full of resilience and resolve. She was eventually enslaved, had to flee multiple times, and was ultimately executed by her political enemies.
START POSITION
As the Prince of Donghai, Sima Yue controls Donghai commandery, a good food producing area with a fishing port and a well-developed city. His initial enemies lie to the west, and conflict with the Prince of Pengcheng can lead to an important extension of Sima Yue’s power-base into central China. From here, control of the empire lies within his grasp, but with great opportunity come great danger…
WHAT KIND OF PLAYER IS HE FOR?
Sima Yue is for the politically minded, who like to control government and administrative aspects of rulership. As Sima Yue, you will have to concern yourself with maintaining your influence across your realm, and with managing the various positions and tasks for your government officials.
LordofHats wrote: So, 8 Princes totally snuck up on me. Who is playing who, and how is it going?
Haven't had a chance just yet. My PC is out of commission for the week, so won't know until this time next week. Looking forward to it.
For what its worth, its at "Mixed" reviews on Steam, which I didn't expect given how positive reviews are on Three Kingdoms. Though "Netease" is coming up in alot of the negative reviews, so I'm sure its not entirely based off of valid gameplay reviews.
Isn't that deal purely to bring their game formally to the Chinese market? I can't see how it could blowback on CA and change their process or such. The only thing it might result in is if the sales there are REALLY good they might make more asian themed games?
Overread wrote: Isn't that deal purely to bring their game formally to the Chinese market? I can't see how it could blowback on CA and change their process or such. The only thing it might result in is if the sales there are REALLY good they might make more asian themed games?
Issue is censorship of China is now in full swing, considering that Netease has to answer to the chinese government.
It's also described by a chinese mate of mine as EA but 10 times worse.
Yeah but they've not merged companies nor entered into a buy-out deal. It's purely CA using them as a means to enter the market. The only changes to the game would likely come as changes to the game to be released in China; not the global market game. Considering the size of the potential market this is a viable option to take since that market alone could outsize many western markets.
As for EA they've really not done all that much "EVIL" as of late and their current greatest evil is paid lootboxes; which honestly ALL of the big names are involved with to various degrees (though I think UBI takes the lead with having experience boosters and item boosters in a singleplayer game in Assassin's Creed)
Overread wrote: Yeah but they've not merged companies nor entered into a buy-out deal. It's purely CA using them as a means to enter the market. The only changes to the game would likely come as changes to the game to be released in China; not the global market game. Considering the size of the potential market this is a viable option to take since that market alone could outsize many western markets.
As for EA they've really not done all that much "EVIL" as of late and their current greatest evil is paid lootboxes; which honestly ALL of the big names are involved with to various degrees (though I think UBI takes the lead with having experience boosters and item boosters in a singleplayer game in Assassin's Creed)
?!?
The censorship allready affected the rest of the world by threat of nuking fan sites using and or promoting certain mods?
Apex legends event? (called hunt for the whales by their own community there? XD)
BioWare dissolving more or less.
BF5 Basically nail in the Coffin of the franchise.
If it’s like prior deals companies have made to enter China “proper” NetEase will be doing most of the garbage itself and handling the rollout but only in China where they have the distribution rights.
While a lot of websites have been getting nuked with draconian rule changes by Tencent or Perfect World buying stakes in them or their service providers (reddit being the most famous example) that doesn’t seem to be the kind of deal CA made with NetEase.
Yeah, so far as I can tell this is strictly a standard distribution setup into the Peoples Republic of China, which has those obnoxious rules requiring you to have a native company as the distributor. Or in other words, it's the same as any other non-MMO game. I'm not sure why someone would think there was anything bad about it.
The article I read did have one item that caused me a bit of trepidation. But it was the announcement of CA's upcoming "Total War: Elysium", which looks like it'll basically be Total War meets Hearthstone. i.e. famous historical generals gather in an inn and play a card game.
The only thing it might result in is if the sales there are REALLY good they might make more asian themed games?
Of course, we've had Asian-themed games since the very first Total War game (*cough*Shogun*cough*). But more of them would definitely be welcome. This move would be specifically aimed at Chinese- themed games (and there's a lot of history to mine there), as no other asian video game market has the protectionist controls that the PRC's market does.
Overread wrote: Isn't that deal purely to bring their game formally to the Chinese market?
Yes.
I can't see how it could blowback on CA and change their process or such. The only thing it might result in is if the sales there are REALLY good they might make more asian themed games?
Well, there is a subset of CA... well, customers, not fans... that really love their conspiracy theories. And making a lot of noise and review bombs over trivial topics.
This is one of those 'obvious' signs of the apocalypse they like to shout about.
Nevermind that it won't affect anyone outside the Chinese market, just 'rabble rabble rabble.'
Oh yes I've seen the anti-CA fanbase madness. Some drawn from the "Medieval 3" fangroup who refuse to like any game that isn't Medieval 3 being released; the anti-fantasy group who lamented the end of TW games and historical games when CA made Warhammer; the anti-women group who went all kinds of crazy when CA dared to add women to Rome 2. Oh and the Norsca group who spent ages complaining about "where's Norsca" in Warhamer 2 even though CA had been very clear that Norsca broke and they had to remake them.
Overread wrote: Oh yes I've seen the anti-CA fanbase madness. Some drawn from the "Medieval 3" fangroup who refuse to like any game that isn't Medieval 3 being released; the anti-fantasy group who lamented the end of TW games and historical games when CA made Warhammer; the anti-women group who went all kinds of crazy when CA dared to add women to Rome 2. Oh and the Norsca group who spent ages complaining about "where's Norsca" in Warhamer 2 even though CA had been very clear that Norsca broke and they had to remake them.
Strawman is strawman
I am in neither group, i am mostly just what you'd call an disgruntled Veteran, (altough i really , like really liked WHTW mostly because childhood dream and it was well done, except sieges, sieges still suck....)
I however also have not forgotten the launch or momentary state of ETW, Rome II (which had the audacity at release to call itself a game), and thrones which is just in shambles.
I am merely pointing out that they partnernering with NetEase is atleast for alot of asian customers not really acceptable.
As for CA's community managemant. It ain't the brightest now isn't it
I find at least the Warhammer TW AI attacks walls in sieges. In many of the earlier games they'd rarely actually come at the walls. I've seen the Medieval one abandon its siege gear and rank and file up. Which honestly is neat fun now and then, but not every time darn it.
Heck I got into Rome 2 recently and the number of times the AI would just keep running away in the 3D battles. It never gained anything, it just kept going "I'm going to lose this possibly - run away a few steps and rank up again". Which is more frustraiting to play against. The Warhammer AI is far more "OK so I don't care win or lose I'm either going to hold the line or charge!"
Overread wrote: I find at least the Warhammer TW AI attacks walls in sieges. In many of the earlier games they'd rarely actually come at the walls. I've seen the Medieval one abandon its siege gear and rank and file up. Which honestly is neat fun now and then, but not every time darn it.
Heck I got into Rome 2 recently and the number of times the AI would just keep running away in the 3D battles. It never gained anything, it just kept going "I'm going to lose this possibly - run away a few steps and rank up again". Which is more frustraiting to play against. The Warhammer AI is far more "OK so I don't care win or lose I'm either going to hold the line or charge!"
Well it isn't really ok, The AI got the bumrush retardation codeing from Attila, and in sieges it can't even fall back anymore, yet still keepds half the army in reserve and does not contest the walls after the base reserves there are depleted.
Infact especially the Bretonian AI in my last siege played great. It stacked so many units around one oppening that Malagor got 621 kills with the basic lore of the beast spell upgraded and overcast.
It did not sally out to kill my archers, it did not counter fire with it's archers .
In a way the only thing i can say about sieges that they at First glance seem improved, mostly due to the fact that the AI can't manouvre within it.
Otoh as a Veteran well, let's just say i didn't expect much sooo
I also still like the Empires great internal politics. Leaving you with two options:
A: Start a Civil war and force them under your rule.
B: Be everyones babysitter and go to Sylvania and be stuck there in that gak hole whilest also needing to defend all the other Empire minors, which still rather would shoot you then let you help them.
Honestly I'm really hoping that Blizzards AI work trickles down into other developers. Far as I can see RTS tends to push current AI to its limit for games and most of the developers are not pushing it like the Starcraft 2 AI is. I'ts possibly the most well rounded of AI today - whilst a lot of other games still seem to have made very little overt progress with game AI.
Overread wrote: Honestly I'm really hoping that Blizzards AI work trickles down into other developers. Far as I can see RTS tends to push current AI to its limit for games and most of the developers are not pushing it like the Starcraft 2 AI is. I'ts possibly the most well rounded of AI today - whilst a lot of other games still seem to have made very little overt progress with game AI.
Not Really likely, considering Actibliz atm is more concerned with nickle and diming it wouldn't be unlikely for them to demand massive amounts of licensing.
There will also be some free additions to the core game, including a rebalance pass and a new warlord - Tao Qian.
Tao Qian was the governor of Xu Province. Cao Cao's father was traveling through Xu Province when some of Tao Qian's soldiers robbed and murdered him. Cao Cao attacked Xu Province in revenge, and Tao Qian asked for help from his allies. A couple of them responded, including Liu Bei. Cao Cao's forces ran out of supplies before he could take the capitol, and he was forced to retreat. Tao Qian ultimately died of natural causes, and control of the province was handed to Liu Bei.
One new warlord for the main campaign, but only if you own the DLC (in addition to the free one mentioned in my previous post). And for the first time, you'll be able to play as the sitting emperor, and try to resolidify power over your country.
While the familiar faces will be limited at first, events during the game will reintroduce some of the missing ones.
Four individuals have been made legendary heroes. All have ties to the Han. Diao Chan is one of them.
There's a new free warlord being released even for those who don't purchase the DLC. You'll need to download him, however, and the patch notes have a link to the Steam page where you can do this.
The patch has a lot of rebalancing changes, and a few new items including a new anti-unit siege weapon (because trebuchets weren't nasty enough). Militia units got across the board downgrades. And there are new deployable defensive battlefield features.
Playing as Sun Jian, after almost exlusively playing northern factions (Gongsun Zan, Dhong Zhou and the bandit lady with the axes).
I think someone mentioned it earlier in this thread at the games release (maybe Lordofhats?) that the south is empty. Me playing the northern factions where I can't throw a shoe without hitting 8 claimants to the throne didn't really pay any mind to it. Then I went back to WH2 for a long while and forgot about it until this week.
Now with this Sun Jian campaign, I'm just marching from one deserted town to the next, with a few Han settlements putting up token resistance. Its kind of boring and really makes me think for the first time that this game is incomplete. Don't get me wrong, I liked the game a lot once I got used to it, and this patch added a lot of fun stuff, but its an entirely different play experience down south. Probably intentional, as I guess South China was a war torn backwater at this point in history? Could've at least added some generic bandit factions to make things interesting.
And I haven't even touched the 2 campaign DLC's that they added, though I do like the new feature where you can choose the timeline. Dong Zhou looking less... festively plump in the years before the main campaign was pretty funny. The rest seem to be all the same character model though.
Yeah, I keep revisiting 3k after each dlc, but I have a hard time getting into it. The technical and diplomacy improvements are great, but the campaigns...
You can either build freely in a vacuum, or you're completely surrounded by factions that can and will turn on you at any time. I don't enjoy either playstyle that much, or that the leaders are dangerous mostly because they have artifact-tier weapons from the start (or not, as the case may be). The weapons make a bigger difference than they do in warhammer, which seems ironic to me.
Something about its whole design ethos just feels "cluttered" to me. More so than the other TW games (Granted comparing them all to something as visually streamlined as Medieval 2 they ALL come up short for ease of visual information on the grand campaign map).
Granted part of the issue is I keep getting distracted playing Warhammer TW
Overread wrote: Something about its whole design ethos just feels "cluttered" to me. More so than the other TW games (Granted comparing them all to something as visually streamlined as Medieval 2 they ALL come up short for ease of visual information on the grand campaign map).
"Cluttered" is exactly what comes to mind when I look at 3K's technology tree. The cherry blossom tree(I think thats what it is) graphic gets distracting once you get deep into a branch with overlapping tech. Cool concept, but dial it down a bit.
One thing that I liked in this most recent 3K patch is that it gave us an "option" (quotes because I'm not going back to how it was originally) to change the unit cards. Instead of some generic, barely visible mannequin holding that units highlighted chosen armament, its now legit rendered artwork, so you know exactly what you are getting. It was such a weird design decision and I'm surprised it took so long to change it.
Granted part of the issue is I keep getting distracted playing Warhammer TW
If/When Ogre Kingdoms DLC drops, I've tapped out on TW2. Think I have over 1000 hours in that game. But a chunk of that is me walking away during the AI's turn or just doing a chore when its finally my turn.
Granted part of the issue is I keep getting distracted playing Warhammer TW
If/When Ogre Kingdoms DLC drops, I've tapped out on TW2. Think I have over 1000 hours in that game. But a chunk of that is me walking away during the AI's turn or just doing a chore when its finally my turn.
Have you played since the last patch? When they released the new Undead Pirates I noticed a long while back that they always took their turns a lot faster than the other races and they've basically built on that and done it to all the races. The speed update is honestly fantastic and makes a massive difference in turn times. It's made Mortal Realms a lot more fun to play.
Granted part of the issue is I keep getting distracted playing Warhammer TW
If/When Ogre Kingdoms DLC drops, I've tapped out on TW2. Think I have over 1000 hours in that game. But a chunk of that is me walking away during the AI's turn or just doing a chore when its finally my turn.
Have you played since the last patch? When they released the new Undead Pirates I noticed a long while back that they always took their turns a lot faster than the other races and they've basically built on that and done it to all the races. The speed update is honestly fantastic and makes a massive difference in turn times. It's made Mortal Realms a lot more fun to play.
Yeah, I saw it. The most recent content with Malus Darkblade and The Deathmaster is the patch where they added the decreased turn time algorithm. And yeah its night and day difference early and mid game. Once you explore a bit more of the map with trade routes and such, it bogs down again, but never at the level it was pre-patch. I'm more just bored with the game overall, having played it to exhaustion.
Overread wrote: Something about its whole design ethos just feels "cluttered" to me. More so than the other TW games (Granted comparing them all to something as visually streamlined as Medieval 2 they ALL come up short for ease of visual information on the grand campaign map).
That's true too. I hate the event messages in the little bubbles that I have to click to read and right click to dismiss (and can't get them back if I want to double check something). I miss Warhammer's log, where I can just mouse over to read and they don't go away.
But yeah, I've spent more time on Warhammer 2 post Mandate of Heaven than 3K, which says something about my interest level.
nels1031 wrote:If/When Ogre Kingdoms DLC drops, I've tapped out on TW2.
This is 100% not happening.
There are one or two more DLC drops for tw2 (at least one will update orcs and goblins, there may not be a second), but they announced very firmly that there would be no more factions in TW2.
At the moment the most likely thing is an O&G vs high elves dlc, since they've gone on records with an update for them, and of the tw2 base races, high elves have the fewest legendary lords.
I'm actually a bit surprised. They've had two campaign DLCs so far, but haven't released any faction DLC since the Yellow Turban DLC - which was available at launch. There have been new warlords; both of the campaign DLCs pretty much required this (and two new warlords were just added to the base campaign). But they haven't released a DLC that's exclusively devoted to mixing up the base campaign with new warlords or factions.
Eumerin wrote: I'm actually a bit surprised. They've had two campaign DLCs so far, but haven't released any faction DLC since the Yellow Turban DLC - which was available at launch. There have been new warlords; both of the campaign DLCs pretty much required this (and two new warlords were just added to the base campaign). But they haven't released a DLC that's exclusively devoted to mixing up the base campaign with new warlords or factions.
Some of the youtubers who play have commented on this, especially for Eight Princes. While the character models were new, the behaviors were just copied from the base game. So one of the princes used Yuan Shao's AI, another used Liu Bei's, etc, etc. It was basically fighting over the same places with the same people, just different skins and names.
The south definitely needs to be filled out with some sort of challenge, not just open expansion areas. And/or doing something with the northern invasion and trade routes, and using a different map (bascially cutting out the south for more challenging stuff up north).
The south was empty in all of the Romance of the Three Kingdoms games, as well. Sun Jian gets an early game boost if he stays out of the conflicts happening in the center map. More recent RotK games have tried to mitigate this, not by adding warlords or barbarian tribes into the south, but by drastically reducing the number of officers and vassals Sun Jian can recruit in the early game. I think the reason for this decision is down to the novel not giving any indication that anybody was down there apart from Sun Jian, and the developers don't want to invent new characters (although that didn't stop them from adding Lu Bu's fictional daughter into the last game). It may be that, historically, there isn't much information on who was active in the south of China at that time, either. I'm not sure of the reasons, but I am sue that an empty southern map isn't unique to Total War. But hey, at least it gives new players an area to start out where they can expand their power base and learn the ropes, prior to getting Cao Cao all up in their grill.
squidhills wrote: although that didn't stop them from adding Lu Bu's fictional daughter into the last game
Just a quick note - Lu Bu's daughter isn't fictional. While her name isn't known, and she wouldn't have been a fierce warrior as depicted in Dynasty Warriors, he did have at least one daughter. He attempted to use her to cement an alliance with Yuan Shu by marrying her into Shu's family. But Shu didn't trust Lu Bu and ultimately declined the offer.
AFAIK, nothing else is known about her.
As for the southern part of the map -
While it wasn't as heavily populated as northern (particularly north-eastern) China, there were still people there. At least two warlords - Liu Yao and Shi Xie were apparently based in the south. The former was active in the fighting, but died of an illness shortly after defeating a rebellious general. The latter was fairly passive (he was about as far as you could possibly get from the capitol, and was content to be left alone to do as he pleased) and apparently ended up joining the Kingdom of Wu. There was also at least one prominent non-Han tribe active in the region. The Shanyue tended to live by pillaging their Han neighbors whenever they had the chance. Wu eventually pacified them through a combination of carrot (promised rewards if they joined) and starvation (making it impossible for the Shanyue to pillage food from the Han harvests).
Just a quick note - Lu Bu's daughter isn't fictional. While her name isn't known, and she wouldn't have been a fierce warrior as depicted in Dynasty Warriors, he did have at least one daughter. He attempted to use her to cement an alliance with Yuan Shu by marrying her into Shu's family. But Shu didn't trust Lu Bu and ultimately declined the offer.
AFAIK, nothing else is known about her.
My only frame of reference here is the latest RotK game itself. In their biography entry for Lu Bu's daughter they state that the character did not appear in history or in the original novel. There may be some mild subtleties lost in the translation, but it is possible Koei meant that the Lu Bu daughter in their game was not meant ot be the actual historical daughter of Lu Bu. My guess would be because the girl in the game would have been several years older than the historical daughter would have been. *shrug*
While it wasn't as heavily populated as northern (particularly north-eastern) China, there were still people there. At least two warlords - Liu Yao and Shi Xie were apparently based in the south. The former was active in the fighting, but died of an illness shortly after defeating a rebellious general. The latter was fairly passive (he was about as far as you could possibly get from the capitol, and was content to be left alone to do as he pleased) and apparently ended up joining the Kingdom of Wu. There was also at least one prominent non-Han tribe active in the region. The Shanyue tended to live by pillaging their Han neighbors whenever they had the chance. Wu eventually pacified them through a combination of carrot (promised rewards if they joined) and starvation (making it impossible for the Shanyue to pillage food from the Han harvests).
I remember Shi Xie. He used to be a fixture in the older games, but I can't recall him being in the more recent ones. But that may just be my memory. I missed out on all the PS3 era RotK games, so if he was in those I wouldn't have seen them. All I can speak to is SNES, PS1, PS2 and the most recent on PS4. Liu Yao doesn't ring a bell, but the Shanyue do. The games tried to include them a few times in the past by making them non-state actors in the conflict. Basically, they controlled no territory or cities, but you could bribe them to attack enemy cities (which would weaken defenses and deplete garrisons) typically to soften them up for your own assaults which would be intended to conquer the cities. Then they kind of dropped out of the game. I think they popped up in 9 or 10 as an elite recruitable troop type for Wu.
squidhills wrote: My only frame of reference here is the latest RotK game itself. In their biography entry for Lu Bu's daughter they state that the character did not appear in history or in the original novel. There may be some mild subtleties lost in the translation, but it is possible Koei meant that the Lu Bu daughter in their game was not meant ot be the actual historical daughter of Lu Bu. My guess would be because the girl in the game would have been several years older than the historical daughter would have been. *shrug*
Koei has a character named Lu Lingqi (at least in Dynasty Warriors), who is a fictional version of Lu Bu's daughter. Historically she is unnamed and would have been very young at the time. She definitely existed. Yuan Shu tried to secure Lu Bu's loyalty by marrying his son to her. However her ultimate fate and name are unrecorded by history.
The lack of a name for Lu Bu's daughter is, unfortunately, a common issue for women in the records of this era. This leads to problems when creating stories set in the era. Some of the women that tend to appear more frequently often end up with traditional names. The most flagrant example of this is probably the wife of Sun Ce, along with her sister - who was Zhao Yu's wife - who are quite literally referred to by traditional names that mean Older Sister and Younger Sister.
The men, on the other hand, tend to be much better documented, with quite a few obscure officers having their names recorded in the records that are available.
That's not a particularly unique problem. It exists in American records too, both in church records and newspaper articles.
During one particular stint doing archival work for a college in Boston, I came across a lot of wedding announcements from the 1970s and 80s (!!!), where the bride was simply listed as John Doe's bride or daughter, depending on whether the writer thought the husband or father of the bride was more important. The woman's name was often not listed despite her obvious importance to the wedding.
Same thing with 19th century Congregationalist church records. Household were listed under the husband, and it was a stroke of luck if the wives or children were named. Given the time period that's more expected, but s still frustrating to researchers.
Voss wrote: That's not a particularly unique problem. It exists in American records too, both in church records and newspaper articles.
During one particular stint doing archival work for a college in Boston, I came across a lot of wedding announcements from the 1970s and 80s (!!!), where the bride was simply listed as John Doe's bride or daughter, depending on whether the writer thought the husband or father of the bride was more important. The woman's name was often not listed despite her obvious importance to the wedding.
Same thing with 19th century Congregationalist church records. Household were listed under the husband, and it was a stroke of luck if the wives or children were named. Given the time period that's more expected, but s still frustrating to researchers.
You *kind* of expect it when it involves members of society who aren't considered particularly significant. But it's a bit of a surprise when one of the individuals that you're referring to was the wife of the leader of the Sun family (if only for a short period of time), and the other was the wife of the lead strategist of the same family. Both of the husbands were very important individuals while they were alive. The US equivalent would be not recording the name of the First Lady for posterity.
Voss wrote: That's not a particularly unique problem. It exists in American records too, both in church records and newspaper articles.
During one particular stint doing archival work for a college in Boston, I came across a lot of wedding announcements from the 1970s and 80s (!!!), where the bride was simply listed as John Doe's bride or daughter, depending on whether the writer thought the husband or father of the bride was more important. The woman's name was often not listed despite her obvious importance to the wedding.
Same thing with 19th century Congregationalist church records. Household were listed under the husband, and it was a stroke of luck if the wives or children were named. Given the time period that's more expected, but s still frustrating to researchers.
You *kind* of expect it when it involves members of society who aren't considered particularly significant. But it's a bit of a surprise when one of the individuals that you're referring to was the wife of the leader of the Sun family (if only for a short period of time), and the other was the wife of the lead strategist of the same family. Both of the husbands were very important individuals while they were alive. The US equivalent would be not recording the name of the First Lady for posterity.
Well, one thing to consider is that all these guys probably had a fair number of concubines and/or multiple wives. Which would lead to them having quite a few children, in varying states of legitimacy. The child death rates up till even very recently were not great.
Children simply weren't really worthy of note till they survived to adulthood unless something particularly special was going on. And I'm sure the court record keepers had better things to do than keep track of even an important person's children unless there was a good reason.
And even if records were kept, if you are a scribe who is trying to organize a library and you need to make some space, what are you going to keep? The records of the deeds of the great Lu Bu? Or the boring rote records noting the names, births, and deaths of a bunch of Lu Bu's children?
Voss wrote: That's not a particularly unique problem. It exists in American records too, both in church records and newspaper articles.
During one particular stint doing archival work for a college in Boston, I came across a lot of wedding announcements from the 1970s and 80s (!!!), where the bride was simply listed as John Doe's bride or daughter, depending on whether the writer thought the husband or father of the bride was more important. The woman's name was often not listed despite her obvious importance to the wedding.
Same thing with 19th century Congregationalist church records. Household were listed under the husband, and it was a stroke of luck if the wives or children were named. Given the time period that's more expected, but s still frustrating to researchers.
You *kind* of expect it when it involves members of society who aren't considered particularly significant. But it's a bit of a surprise when one of the individuals that you're referring to was the wife of the leader of the Sun family (if only for a short period of time), and the other was the wife of the lead strategist of the same family. Both of the husbands were very important individuals while they were alive. The US equivalent would be not recording the name of the First Lady for posterity.
For a period that's almost 2000 years past, is semi-mythical and based more on known fictionalized accounts than real historical sources... it doesn't surprise me at all.
There's some genealogical charts in the back of my copy of the Anglo-Saxon chronicle of the various kings, and 'daughter of,' 'daughter' or just a single line between a king and his children (no spouse indicated) happens regularly. Those names were lost in almost half the time. That's the patriarchy for you.
In 2000 years, I wouldn't expect many first ladies to be remembered either. We're still rather bad at records (and I say that as someone who professionally keeps and maintains records). Truthfully, I think you're overestimating the reliability and availability of records.
For a period that's almost 2000 years past, is semi-mythical and based more on known fictionalized accounts than real historical sources... it doesn't surprise me at all.
There's some genealogical charts in the back of my copy of the Anglo-Saxon chronicle of the various kings, and 'daughter of,' 'daughter' or just a single line between a king and his children (no spouse indicated) happens regularly. Those names were lost in almost half the time. That's the patriarchy for you.
In 2000 years, I wouldn't expect many first ladies to be remembered either. We're still rather bad at records (and I say that as someone who professionally keeps and maintains records). Truthfully, I think you're overestimating the reliability and availability of records.
On the one hand, yes.
On the other hand, we have the names of a ridiculous number of low-ranking officers from the era. Koei-Tecmo's Dynasty Warriors series has hundreds of "generic" officers who are unplayable, and represented only by a name. And none of these people are fictional. We have records that confirm the existence of every last one of them.
(it's the playable characters who are sometimes fictional)
If anything I'd say the number one reason the wives of Sun Ce and Zhou Yu aren't even named is because the two men both died much in their prime. Sun Ce achieved much but never really "ruled" and Zhou Yu died not long after Red Cliffs. Neither of them really lived into the full Three Kingdom's period, and with their deaths their wives became simply extended family of the Imperial house. Probably well cared for, but not particularly important.
A number of women are named in the era, but it's pretty much exclusive to the wives of the three emperors and some of their most significant advisors. Concubines generally go unnamed unless they seriously pissed someone off (tried to usurp power).
On the other hand, we have the names of a ridiculous number of low-ranking officers from the era. Koei-Tecmo's Dynasty Warriors series has hundreds of "generic" officers who are unplayable, and represented only by a name. And none of these people are fictional. We have records that confirm the existence of every last one of them.
Well thats probably where we get into another part of historical records. The stuff that survives can also be random. Especially if natural disasters get involved.
Kinda like how 99% of the records which survive from the ancient Bronze age on clay tablets are almost all related to food storage, grain harvests, etc... Maybe that was the only stuff they actually cared to write about and nothing else ever existed. Maybe thats the only stuff that has survived because only the warehouse storing the agricultural tablets actually remained in good condition.
I gave the 8 Princes campaign a shot(50ish turns), just felt lifeless because it didn't have all of the wonderful and colorful folks of the main campaign. I get that the focus is on the 8 dudes, hence the title, but it just felt empty with all the repetitive and generic NPC cardboard cutout characters.
May give Mandate of Heaven a shot this week, but from what I can see is that its sorta the main campaign with different start locations for some of the characters from main campaign.
Probably won't purchase the next DLC unless it adds something significant to the main campaign, or shifts focus to another era(gimme the Mongol invasion!!!) or locale (Korea!?)
The only thing I liked about 8 Princes was that the campaign had a better flow to it than the man campaign, and of course the South Was populated so starting there was less one-dimensional.
Genghis Khan is almost exactly 1000 years later. So I wouldn't expect to see the Mongols as an add-on for this game. There were pre-Mongol nomadic groups living in what is now Mongolia. But they didn't present the same threat during this period that the Mongols later did.
Korea at this time would best be presented as a saga game, imo.
One start date that's pretty much a "why haven't they done this already!?" would be based on the time period just after the establishment of the third kingdom (Shu-Han). I could also see them expanding the game even further by adding in the period that immediately follows Eight Princes, when the north devolved into another warring states period.
Additional factions - including non-Han - has been brought up numerous times here, and I'm surprised they haven't added any yet.
I gave the Mandate of Heaven DLC a good shot since my last post in this thread. Aside from having a few less factions, it was alot of fun and I think I prefer it over main campaign.
I did one campaign as the Han Emperor which has some fairly unique problems and challenges, but I powered through and waited out the Eunichs in my court, gradually shitcanning them as my political influence grew.
And I'm fairly early into a MoH Dong Zhou campaign, and it fun to see him before he became the tyrant that he seems to be before the main campaign. I'm just slowly grinding down the Yellow Turban factions with newly adopted Lu Bu, creating a pretty powerful state in the north. Though I just got the mission to head to the Han capital because He Jin was murdered by the Eunuchs, so I think things are about to hit the fan here real soon.
Liu Yao is the warlord who ruled a area of southern China and was defeated by Sun Ce, forming the basis for Eastern Wu. He is currently one of the early objectives for Sun Jian's faction. He starts the campaign in Jianye, the province on the south bank of the Yangzhe along the coast.
Yan Baihu is interesting. He was a bandit leader in the Jiangdong region, and if added to the game would be in the South, so it looks like they might be looking at adding some more meat to the south of the map, just not with the Nanman.
ABOUT THIS CONTENT
A World Betrayed portrays a seminal moment in the history of the Three Kingdoms. Many of the iconic warlords of Total War: THREE KINGDOMS have now passed on, a catalyst that has spurred a new generation of warlords into making a play for their own dynasties.
As well as adding in more factions to the South, A World Betrayed includes:
Two new factions led by fan favourites Lü Bu and Sun Ce
13 playable factions
New unique battlefield units
New faction mechanics
New events and story missions
New legendary characters
New story events
A brand-new 194 CE start date
All sons are born in the shadow of their fathers. It’s how they move beyond that defines them.
The year is 194CE and Dong Zhuo, the seemingly unstoppable tyrant, has been dead for two years. But his death blow did not come from an enemy hand; the blade belonged to Lü Bu, his adoptive son.
Since Dong Zhuo’s death, Lü Bu has flirted with a number of allegiances, swiftly falling in (and out) with the warlords he finds around him. Having found further opportunities by taking Cao Cao’s land while he was away avenging the death of his father, he now flees from Cao Cao and his allies, seeking further means to prove his battle prowess and defeat the supposed heroes of China.
Meanwhile in the South, Sun Ce mourns his own father’s death, Sun Jian. Vowing to defend his legacy, he seeks expansion into the South, but can he keep his people safe and prove his worth beyond his father’s legacy?
With the world in turmoil, it’s up to you to carve out a path for your hero, and lay waste to anyone that stands in your way.
Lü Bu
The legendary warrior Lü Bu may be fearsome in battle, but he is hasty when it comes to the intricacies of rule. At the start of his campaign players will find themselves locked in combat with Cao Cao’s main army. Fight your way out of Chen to survive and rally your forces for the next inevitable showdown. This is the only DLC in which Lü Bu and his faction become playable.
Unique Faction Mechanics:
Momentum:
Lü Bu’s faction centres around Lü Bu himself defeating enemies as faction leader. Defeating enemy characters grants momentum points which enable a variety of powerful actions and bonuses.
Greatest Warrior Panel:
Lü Bu’s faction has access to the ‘Greatest Warriors’ panel, featuring legendary warriors from the Three Kingdoms period. Defeating these legendary warriors with Lü Bu unlocks various permanent bonuses for the faction.
Unique Story Events:
Experience the historic conflict between Cao Cao and Lü Bu
Lü Bu’s shifting allegiances: will you join Liu Bei, and later betray him?
Lü Bu’s fractured faction: Will your generals betray you?
When playing as Lü Bu you also have access to two new units;
Camp Crushers (two-handed sword infantry)
Flying Riders (armoured shock cavalry)
Sun Ce
The military general Sun Ce is a vassal of Yuan Shu at the start of this campaign, as his father Sun Jian was before him. In Sun Ce’s campaign the player must grapple with decisions around the overlord; should Sun Ce stay loyal or should he rebel? With a desire to push South and conquer his homelands, Sun Ce has a fraught journey ahead of him.
Unique Faction Mechanic:
Legacy Of Wu:
Sun Ce has a list of ‘ambitions’ and completing these goals grants permanent bonuses to his faction. This includes tasks such as conquering lands in the south, gathering high-level characters into his court and getting vengeance for his father’s murder.
Reckless Luck:
Sun Ce’s reckless behaviour lets him expand his kingdom with unmatched speed and ease. But the luck that keeps him alive can’t be sustained forever. If his luck runs out, Sun Ce dies. By completing his ambitions, his death can be delayed and, perhaps, avoided.
Unique Story Events:
Guide Sun Ce’s unbridled ambition and reckless confidence into conquering the South.
Experience Sun Ce’s conflict with Yan Baihu and Yuan Shu.
Prove your worth, and Sun Jian’s old generals will flock to your faction.
When playing as Sun Ce you also have access to five new units and his father’s mercenary units.
Two items worth noting in this. The first is that while Dong Zhuo and Sun Jian were both important to the era, both historically were killed shortly after the base game start. This DLC adds two famous individuals who became faction leaders due to the deaths of those men. The second is that CA is finally populating the south. This will hopefully be included for free in the base game start, as well
I really don't like the special mechanics.
Partly because it makes some factions ridiculously overpowered, and I don't like juggling penalties. It isn't fun with specific elf, skaven or other leaders in Warhammer 2, and doesn't look fun here. Its just extra accounting that takes away from the core gameplay.
TOTAL WAR: THREE KINGDOMS
The Nanman are coming – in fact, they’re lined up to be our very next DLC release. We’re very excited, and we think this pack has a lot of great stuff in it that you’re really going to enjoy.
You’ve seen ‘Chapter Packs’ before, but this will be our first ‘Expansion Pack’ DLC for 3K, and it’s a large one.
First off, something that a lot of you have been asking for is coming – gate pass battles and settlements will be added to the campaign map helping to make core passes much more defensible (and some impassable shallows around Chang’an to stop the Yellow river being used to quickly take it).
We don’t want to give too much away yet, but we can also let you know that if you don’t want to buy the DLC there will still be a new Free-LC Lord for the Han, new options to stop characters dying from old age at the beginning of the campaign, and some UI changes that we think will make a big difference.
Plus there’ll be some things added that you’ll never forget…
Having said that, there is a minor issue that might bother some of you, so we want to get out ahead of it. Hulao pass is sort of in the wrong place. We know and we’re sorry, these things happen!
Hulao Pass is positioned North of Mount Song, and we have placed it there on the 3K map. The issue is that the mountain is in the wrong place. This was pointed out to us but at a place where fixing it would break all of our internal saves. Our focus is on making sure the upcoming release is as stable as it can be, and having to start over with getting saves to help us bug fix and balance the game came with too many risks.
This is something that we’re going to correct in a future update, so rest assured that we’re aware of it. That map update will come with the second ‘Expansion Pack’ DLC that will focus on building out the North of the map.
Probably my favorite part :
First off, something that a lot of you have been asking for is coming – gate pass battles and settlements will be added to the campaign map helping to make core passes much more defensible
With the introduction of The Furious Wild Expansion Pack comes the first ever extension of the Total War: Three Kingdom’s map and its already rich cast of characters. Visit the jungles around Southern China and with it, the fearsome tribes of the Nanman. Will you unite the tribes of the south?
As well as expanding the Three Kingdoms map, The Furious Wild includes the new Nanman culture, adding diversity to the base game factions, units and playstyles:
4 new playable factions each with their own unique mechanics, with 19 new factions overall populating southern China
25+ new units including exciting and formidable animal units
New ferocious character artwork
New Nanman-specific tech tree with keystone technologies requiring missions to be completed
A completely new character progression style, with feats used to unlock traits
Unique missions and narrative events bespoke for the Nanman culture
One goal to ‘Unite the Tribes’, but how will you achieve it, through diplomacy or conquest?
Playable in 190 and 194 start dates
Difference unites as much as it divides
In the verdant jungles of Southern China, forces so far unmet are stirring. The disparate tribes of the Nanman have for centuries lain divided, but now a new leader must emerge to unite them – by any means necessary.
The mighty warriors Meng Huo, King Mulu, Lady Zhurong and King Shamoke bring with them unique methods of battle, from flaming maces and blowpipes, to revered elephants and tigers. Separated they are vulnerable, together, they might just be unstoppable.
Play as any of the new playable Nanman factions in the years before their encounter with Zhuge Liang and his famous Southern Campaign. Experience the might of the Southern tribes, all while exploring new areas of the Three Kingdoms map. Can you unify these unique warriors and take on the mighty Han, or will jungle warfare take its toll on these newly formed allegiances?
Meng Huo
Having risen through the ranks of the Nanman tribes, Meng Huo has gained repute for his fierce but stubborn leadership. Loyal to his friends but merciless when it comes to his enemies, his tenacity garners him as much trouble as it does success. With one goal in mind – becoming the king of the Nanman – Meng Huo must look to his neighbours to help spread the flames of his rule.
King of Kings
When Meng Huo takes control over another Nanman faction, either by making an alliance or destroying them, he gains certain temporary bonuses. These bonuses can also be stacked, creating a rolling momentum that will surely bring Meng Huo the kingship he desires.
Unique Units:
Nanzhong Champions: A cut above your usual shield-wielding infantry – perfect for holding your frontline steady as a rock in the face of incoming missiles
Nanzhong Elephants: Drummers sit atop these mighty elephant units, playing rhythms that provide passive buffs to your nearby units. Use them to wreak havoc on the frontline or pull them back to provide support for your units
Nanzhong Spearmen: The eye-catching rattan armour these spearmen wear provides defense against any errant darts headed their way, leaving them free to focus on any incoming mounted foes
Lady Zhurong
A descendent of the god of fire, sparks fly when Lady Zhurong enters the battlefield. With a hot temper and an iron will, she seeks to expand her lands, and remove any obstacles in her way. Her passion seems impossible to rival, but there may just be allies closer than she thinks.
Goddess of Fire
Across the seasons, Lady Zhurong accumulates points toward her Goddess of Fire mechanic. Once enough points have been gathered, players have the ability to activate her Wild Fire bonus; this formidable bonus makes her units near unbeatable in battle. The bonus changes according to the season it is activated within, and these powerful effects last across a series of turns. Once Wild Fire has burned out, Lady Zhurong is vulnerable for a short period and will need to recover before she can fight again without weakness, so time your expansion wisely.
Unique Units:
Tiger Warriors: These axe-wielding warriors have an ace up their sleeve – their tiger companions. Use these tigers to give your opponents a scare before going in for the kill
Followers of the Flame: What’s better than a two-handed mace? A two-handed mace that’s on fire. Engage this fiery unit in as many frontline battles as possible and watch as their damage-over-time effect causes chaos
Tiger Slingers: While tigers disrupt your opponent’s line, these slingers will pick off any stragglers who manage to escape
King Mulu
In the undergrowth of the Southern jungle roams King Mulu, a friend to the animal kingdom, but a stranger to man. Spending time in the animal world has gained him many advantages, not least, the mighty elephants that walk by his side. Now Mulu must face his brethren, but will his pride get in the way of future partnerships?
Pride & Ritual
You know what they say, ‘Pride always comes before a Ritual’, quite literally in the case of Mulu. During his campaign he will accumulate Pride, his faction’s pooled resource, according to the rank of characters he defeats in battle. Your faction will gain lucrative bonuses to animal units, such as an increase in unit capacity and even a decrease in recruitment cost, in line with the amount of Pride you have reached. Periodically, Mulu will take part in spiritual rituals, invoking the elements to grant additional distinct bonuses for his faction.
Unique Units:
Southern Elephants: A small band of elephants that pack a mighty punch to frontlines, accompanied by some handy slingers on their backs
War Elephants: A more heavily armored elephant unit used best to charge into enemies, also accompanied by slingers
Ravine Warriors: These frontline warriors are ready to clean up after any elephant-related carnage with a weapon in each hand
King Shamoke
Shamoke’s origins may be as murky as the dense jungle he controls, but his drive for power is all Nanman. As the ruler of the five valleys, several tribes have pledged their allegiance to him, but many remain wary of the leader. The Han’s interest in him has only deepened this suspicion. With both sides in opposition, Shamoke must choose where his loyalty truly lies, and neither choice is without cost.
Unification Mandate
Shamoke’s chief concern is uniting the Nanman under his rule, and so, his faction mechanic gives him bonuses according to what unification technique the player chooses to employ. Whether you conquer, subjugate or reform, power is yours for the taking and you will be rewarded for the followers you bring to your side.
Unique Units:
Might of the Valley: Fast two-handed axe infantry that gain large bonuses when fighting near death – watch as they flank and charge enemies into submission
Wuling Slingers: These light-footed short-range units are able to side-step potential terrain penalties – ideal for skirmishing in dense jungle where they can quickly evade and wear down enemy units
Wuling Fighters: Offensive-minded warriors with a health pool hardy enough to take the mightiest of blows. These fighters do best pitted against the strongest heroes
Shi Xie will also be playable as a free update. He ran Vietnam on behalf of the Han Dynasty (which controlled the region at the time), and is apparently surprisingly well-regarded there as more than just another arrogant, racist Han official. He ultimately ended up joining Wu, and helping the Sun family undercut Shu-Han's influence in Southern China.
nels1031 wrote: Have they released a pic of how the map is changing? Really looking forward to those changes.
So far as I know, nothing has been mentioned so far in the information released for 'The Furious Wilds'. However, the Shi Xie FLC page does have this screenshot from the 190 start date -
Spoiler:
In it, you can see what appears to be the starting positions for all four of the Nanman warlords, and the regions around where Shi Xie starts.
On another note, looking ahead, apparently CA has indicated that the northern tribes will be the next "big thing". That doesn't preclude one or more new start date releases in the meantime. But we can definitely look forward to the north putting in a strong appearance. CA has also apparently stated that they'd like to add Korea. But if that gets added, it won't be until later.
I'm really liking King Mulu but yeah. Once you've stacked all the bonuses for uniting the tribes the Nanman are crazy strong. Their generals are intense too. It's pretty easy to have multiple Lu Bu and Zhao Yun strength generals from the way the system is designed.
Elephants are also - shockingly - absolute murder machines.
trexmeyer wrote: Does Three Kingdoms have the same siege issues as Warhammer 2?
Not completely. The siege maps are not limited to only having 1 or 2 walls to attack. You can see it a bit in this video. If it is landlocked you can position your units anywhere around it, for coastal cities there is likely to be at least one side which is against the ocean and so is inaccessible. Minor settlement types such as mines have their own maps such as the one seen here.
Cities have towers around the walls and also within the cities itself, so just getting past the wall doesn't mean you are safe from arrow fire, as well as barricades which can be set up to block off streets and funnel the attackers through, exposing them to more towers and making it longer to reach the centre of the city. Fire is very much your friend as it can very quickly bring down arrow towers so making sure to bring along a strategist type general with flaming arrows and flaming shot (for trebuchets) unlocked is quite important.
The AI still has some serious issues with regards to sieges, though. They will still kinda stand there and let you shoot at them though they are not entirely dumb about it and will pull back and use formations and abilities to block your arrows if they can (such as turtle formation etc.). In general most ranged units in the game do not carry anywhere near the amount of ammunition that Warhammer units are packing though, and artillery is not accurate at long ranges, so you can't break the entire enemy army only using your artillery and archers as you can in Warhammer unless you brought nothing but it which would also leave you royally fethed i you didn't manage to break them or got caught by an army with heavy cavalry in the field..
trexmeyer wrote: Does Three Kingdoms have the same siege issues as Warhammer 2?
Not completely. The siege maps are not limited to only having 1 or 2 walls to attack. You can see it a bit in this video. If it is landlocked you can position your units anywhere around it, for coastal cities there is likely to be at least one side which is against the ocean and so is inaccessible. Minor settlement types such as mines have their own maps such as the one seen here.
Cities have towers around the walls and also within the cities itself, so just getting past the wall doesn't mean you are safe from arrow fire, as well as barricades which can be set up to block off streets and funnel the attackers through, exposing them to more towers and making it longer to reach the centre of the city. Fire is very much your friend as it can very quickly bring down arrow towers so making sure to bring along a strategist type general with flaming arrows and flaming shot (for trebuchets) unlocked is quite important.
The AI still has some serious issues with regards to sieges, though. They will still kinda stand there and let you shoot at them though they are not entirely dumb about it and will pull back and use formations and abilities to block your arrows if they can (such as turtle formation etc.). In general most ranged units in the game do not carry anywhere near the amount of ammunition that Warhammer units are packing though, and artillery is not accurate at long ranges, so you can't break the entire enemy army only using your artillery and archers as you can in Warhammer unless you brought nothing but it which would also leave you royally fethed i you didn't manage to break them or got caught by an army with heavy cavalry in the field..
That layout just looks better.
WH2 is a slog in regards to sieges. Autoresolve against major settlements is completely fethed to the point where you can engage an army outside a settlement and have 3:1 odds, but attack that same army in the settlement and it drops down to 1:1 or worse. So I end up almost only fighting siege battles during campaigns because basically every faction has magic, artillery, monsters, ranged, or the rare god-tier lord that trivializes the battle.
The AI will reposition in WH2, but it just doesn't matter if you have magic or ranged to shoot over the walls. They need to update it so that they'll actually LOS you...
WH2 is a slog in regards to sieges. Autoresolve against major settlements is completely fethed to the point where you can engage an army outside a settlement and have 3:1 odds, but attack that same army in the settlement and it drops down to 1:1 or worse. So I end up almost only fighting siege battles during campaigns because basically every faction has magic, artillery, monsters, ranged, or the rare god-tier lord that trivializes the battle.
I had one game in which I was playing Brettonia in the first game. I had taken Altdorf after the Empire lost it (though I can't remember who to; but needless to say, the Empire was *not* doing very well in that game), and massively fortified it. And I had a full stack of units defending it. The Chaos hordes hit it with three full-size armies, and I hit auto-resolve to see what would happen.
The auto-resolved battle had the computer not suffering a single loss.
Auto resolve has always had issues, its not really there for major fights, its there for when you've 12 units against 1 hero fleeting or the remnants of a crippled army etc... Ergo situations where its basically an automatic win/loss result and you don't want to load the map up. It's worse in Warhammer because there's a lot more diversity in the units than normal for a TW Game. You've got armies like skaven where clan rats are pretty rubbbish and will moral break easily; but they are supposed to break and return over and over whilst elite units are shielded by them and doing real damage.
Oh another thing which helps in Three Kingdoms is that if a unit in your army gets completely wiped out then it will automatically replenish itself over a couple of turns as long as you are able to replenish.
And unit recruitment isn't limited by buildings but by your generals and their rank and your technology advances.
So having a unit get wiped out during an autoresolve doesn't mean a multiple turn slog back to a province with the buildings to recruit it, a couple turns recruiting it, and then multiple turns heading back to your front lines.
ABOUT THIS CONTENT
Determine the fate of China in the new Chapter pack for Total War: Three Kingdoms. Grow Yuan Shao’s mighty army or stand in his way as Cao Cao and use strategy to achieve the grandest of ambitions.
In the Fates Divided Chapter Pack you begin at 200 CE, a period that finds Yuan Shao and Cao Cao at a crucial turning point. These childhood friends have borne witness to each other’s growing ambition, but Yuan Shao’s patience with Cao Cao is fast coming to an end – a childhood bond is about to break.
Fates Divided includes significant improvements to several in-game mechanics, a new faction, and new units, as well as new playstyles for established factions.
A Unique Start Date
The 200 CE start date throws players into a moment in history where the story’s main heroes are now developed and formidable forces. Will you continue Cao Cao’s march across the map or use Yuan Shao’s grand army to stop him in his tracks?
Whilst the conflict focuses on the warlords in the north, you can also play as characters such as Liu Bei and Ma Teng, helping them to achieve their lofty goals.
New Cross-Generational Faction
Play as Liu Yan, a man of great ambition and strategy, as he attempts to establish a lasting legacy for his family. Make best use of Liu Yan’s aspiration mechanic to set the stage for Liu Zhang’s eventual inheritance, and reap the rewards of your father’s hard work, or watch as his best laid plans crumble under your care.
New and Varied Units
With a host of new units for Cao Cao, Yuan Shao and Liu Yan, as well as the chance to gain the elite Northern Army units, this is a Chapter Pack that’s coming out fighting.
The release date is on the 11th. So just two weeks away.
That's a pretty short announcement cycle.
Liu Yan was the ruler of Yi Province. His fourth son, Liu Zhang, became his successor after the death of Liu Yan's three oldest sons. Liu Zhang's advisors recommended that Liu Bei be invited into the province, but those same advisors then treacherously conspired with Liu Bei to help the wandering warlord take control of the province. Liu Bei was successful in seizing control, and the Yi Province capitol of Chengdu ended up becoming the capitol of Liu Bei's Kingdom of Shu Han. After Guan Yu's death, Liu Zhang ended up joining the Kingdom of Wu, and died two years later.
Lady Wu, the widow of Liu Yan's third son, Liu Mao, ended up marrying Liu Bei, and became known as Empress Mu.
Liu Yan is a welcome addition. I've been wondering when they were finally going to put a playable warlord down in that region. It's an important region because that's where Liu Bei ultimately ended up. And now there's finally a playable faction down there.
Most of the focus is in showing off Liu Yan's gameplay in Yi Province, and how his faction abilities work in preparing his domain for his heir and successor. The video ends with a clash that gives a brief glimpse of some of the new units potentially available to the northern armies of Cao Cao and Yuan Shao.
There's a lot of new stuff mentioned in the interview that looks like it'll add some very interesting features to the game, and not all of it will be restricted to Year 200 starts (the year when the DLC opens).
For one thing, you now can start big instead of small.
Unlike our other Chapter Packs, we’ve got some big factions from the first turn. Cao Cao’s secured more than 30 regions, and many other warlords have over a dozen regions. This means we’ve got wars brewing on multiple fronts, and players can’t necessarily send all their armies together in a single doomstack.
The Emperor has come of age, and is going to start playing a more important role, as well.
We wanted the emperor (Liu Xie) to play a bigger role in this campaign, so we gave him the full main character treatment. This means he has new unique character art, and a new skill tree that better fits a non-deployable character. While he’s not initially a character on the map, it’s now possible to restore the Han Empire and reinstate him as the rightful ruler. This has been on the wish list for many players, so it’s great to expand his presence in this manner.
The interview notes later on that this will kick in when the Emperor comes of age, which is Year 197. Or in other words, it's not limited to Fates Divided chapter starts.
There's a lot of other good stuff in there too, including a mention of how the recipient of Liu Yan's faction ability doesn't have to be a blood relative.
The 1.7.0 update is the next major update for Total War: THREE KINGDOMS, arriving alongside the Fates Divided DLC. The patch fixes issues raised by the community as well as introducing new campaign features, characters, and more.
Highlights of the 1.7.0 patch:
Imperial Intrigue and changes to the Emperor
Schemes faction mechanic for Cao Cao
Captain armoury mechanic for Yuan Shao
New faction council
New expanded faction ranks
New legendary characters
A plethora of bug fixes
SAVE GAME WARNING
It is strongly recommended you start a new campaign to experience the great new features which have been added to the campaign with the Fates Divided release. Please also disable mods until they have been updated to account for all the changes made. If you wish to finish your current campaigns before updating, please opt in to the old_1.6.1 beta.
In order to opt in to the old_1.6.1 beta:
Right-click on Total War: THREE KINGDOMS in your Steam library
Click Properties and click the Betas tab
In the drop-down menu, select the old_1.6.1 option
Close the window and your build will automatically update to old_1.6.1
THE 1.7.0 PATCH
IMPERIAL INTRIGUE
The new imperial intrigue mechanics determines how well each faction within the Han is seen by the Emperor. This mechanic comes into effect in the year 197 CE, when the Emperor comes of age at 16. In the new Fates Divided campaign, the mechanic is available from turn one, with Cao Cao in control of the Emperor.
The imperial intrigue mechanic sees each faction gain an imperial favour score, which is a measure of how much the Emperor likes that faction. Factions with high favour will gain boons from the Emperor, while factions with low favour may be declared an Enemy of the Han or face imperial sanctions.
While the Emperor holds sway in the imperial court, he will hand out missions, sanctions, and aid to those factions he feels are deserving of them. Each of these occur in events that have a small chance to happen each turn. Factions with high favour will have access to events like “Imperial Food Reserves” where, if your faction is running low on food, the Emperor will send some food supplies to your faction for 10 turns. Those with low favour might see events such as “The Emperor Demands Peace”, a decree which, if your faction is at war with another faction that has high imperial favour, sees the Emperor demand that you make peace with them within 10 turns. All Han factions also have access to the “Duty of the Han” events, which include events such as “The Defence of Our Allies”. In this event, if a faction with high imperial favour has an enemy army in their land, the Emperor will ask you to attack and defeat the enemy army.
Warlords that favour the current protectorate (the faction leader that has control of the Emperor) will actively work against the Enemy of the Han, whereas those who do not care for the protectorate are likely to ignore the Emperor’s decrees. If the protectorate’s favour drops too low, they will lose control of the Emperor.
THE EMPEROR
We have also added a bonus restoration of the Han mechanic to the endgame. The faction controlling the Emperor can reinstate the Emperor when they hit maximum prestige (Emperor) rank. This causes the current character to step down as faction leader, and Liu Xie to become the new faction leader. While not deployable in battle – he is the Emperor, after all – he does have new unique 2D artwork and a new skill tree. The player can also set their original faction leader up as the Emperor as before should they desire to depose the Han.
CAO CAO SCHEMES MECHANIC
Schemes are a new and powerful mechanic for Cao Cao’s faction that let you manipulate the ever-changing world around you to best suit your playstyle. Through enacting schemes, the player can make subtle changes to the campaign situation, such as influencing how others perceive Cao Cao’s enemies, or dramatic shifts, like turning certain defeat in battle into victory.
In order to facilitate this, the faction leader has access to individuals referred to as pawns that, using the spy network, deliver the messages of each scheme to any faction on the campaign map. The number of pawns available are linked to the available spy slots that the faction has developed. Once a scheme is complete, the pawn will again become available to complete the next machination.
Cao Cao’s credibility resource has also been expanded and can now be used in all deals in diplomacy. This makes it a far more powerful tool for manipulation. Credibility can now also be earned and spent through careful scheming.
Schemes and the reworked credibility system will be available in all start dates for Cao Cao.
YUAN SHAO’S CAPTAIN ARMOURY MECHANIC
The Captain Armoury is a new mechanic for Yuan Shao’s faction, focused on his captain retinues. The purpose of this mechanic is to expand captains into something that feels more unique, while not stepping on the toes of characters. The captains are intended to be powerful retinues with highly customisable abilities, but without the individualism of characters.
The player can build up lineage throughout the campaign, and this can be used to buy bonuses for captains. Each captain has their own armoury, and these give the player ways to rapidly expand the military potential of their armies. Some of the available bonuses include flaming arrows for all archers, the ability to fight all battles as ambush battles, or boosting the core stats of units above and beyond their normal values.
The player also has a series of missions for captains. These are milestones that gradually improve the performance of captains throughout the campaign. As part of this feature, we have also given players the ability to rename all captains within their army.
FACTION COUNCIL REWORK
Our previous faction council feature is no more, but something newer and shinier has replaced it. The new faction council is a proactive and reactive system driven by the characters in your court. Each year the council will convene, and each character will offer up to two suggestions based on their personality traits. These suggestions are triggered according to the current situation on the campaign map, with the council offering different options in an attempt to help solve any problems the player might be facing.
The player can choose to enact up to one suggestion per character per year, which immediately creates some interesting scenarios. These no longer trigger missions, but instead enact a suggestion that can shift your economic focus, repair public order, trigger rebellions in enemy land, or even give a big boost to character experience.
Our goal behind this change is to make it feel like the characters in your court are individuals with their own ideas – who are presenting those ideas to their leader for approval.
EXPANDED FACTION PROGRESSION RANKS
With the new expanded progression ranks system, progression bonuses have been switched from a passive bonus to an active customisation feature. When the player gains a new progression rank, they will receive prestige points, which can be spent to increase capacities for things like assignments, administrators, and trade agreements. With this feature, Han imperial factions can thus take the prestige they’ve gained from their exploits on the campaign map and use it to invest back in their own power bases in whichever area they see fit.
When the player invests certain amounts of prestige points into a capacity, they will also gain new bonuses at set milestones. This lets you tailor your faction to your own playstyle – play as Cao Cao and get the most out of spies, for example, or create a multitude of trade routes with Kong Rong.
Players can actively choose when to increase their faction’s progression rank, but once choices are made they’re permanent.
NEW LEGENDARY CHARACTERS
WEN CHOU
Wen Chou was a feared cavalry commander under Yuan Shao, and was sent to fight Cao Cao during their conflict in 200 CE.
Wen Chou’s Xiezhi Roar ability sees him fly into a rage on the battlefield, embodying the mighty Xiezhi, a mythical creature of great power. This activated debuff causes nearby enemies to lose morale as Wen Chou’s roar emits with such power that it sends out a shockwave, killing any soldiers who are too near.
He is available at the 190, 194 and 200 CE start dates.
YAN LIANG
Yan Liang was a fierce general in the employ of Yuan Shao, and fought against Guan Yu while the latter was serving under Cao Cao.
His Mighty Thrust ability sends him spurring on his horse, plowing into enemies with such a force that scores of men go flying. When this buff is activated, it causes terror in enemy units and increases the weight and damage of Yan Liang’s charge.
He is available at the 190, 194 and 200 CE start dates.
YUAN TAN
Yuan Tan was the eldest son of Yuan Shao. He battled against Kong Rong in 196 CE, and fought against Cao Cao in 200 CE. He had a rivalry with his younger brother Yuan Shang due to his brother being preferred in the succession.
The Familial Conflict ability allows Yuan Tan to rally the familial troops. When another of the Yuan Clan is on the field, a familial rivalry will push the other to greater feats. This passive buff inspires increased morale, melee attack rate, and melee damage for whichever Yuan family member has this ability.
He is now available at the 190 CE start date and is a faction leader in the 194 and 200 CE start dates as a vassal of Yuan Shao.
YUAN SHANG
Yuan Shang was the youngest son of Yuan Shao. Although younger and with less military accomplishments, he was still preferred by his parents due to his good looks. He succeeded his father after Yuan Shao died in 202 CE.
Yuan Shang also has the Familial Conflict ability described above.
He is available at the 190, 194 and 200 CE start dates.
ZHANG HE
Zhang He first made a name for himself fighting against rebels. He served under Yuan Shao for a brief period of time, but defected to Cao Cao after several disagreements with Yuan Shao.
Zhang He has a great understanding of geography, and can turn it to his advantage with the Geographic Mastery ability. This passive buff allows Zhang He to ignore terrain penalties and also increases his forest spotting range.
He is a character in Han Fu’s faction in the 182 and 190 CE start dates and then joins Yuan Shao’s faction in 194 and 200 CE start dates.
YU JIN
Yu Jin was a distinguished commander under Cao Cao’s command. He was given a leading role in the conflict against Yuan Shao, and blocked his enemies from approaching via the Yan Crossing.
Yu Jin’s Impenetrable Redoubt ability sees him become an immovable wall on the battlefield, inspiring his men to hold against much greater odds. This passive ability provides a defensive buff for all units on the field when in a defensive battle and outnumbered.
He is a character in the Han Empire in the 182 and 190 CE start dates and joins Cao Cao in the 194 and 200 CE start dates.
CAO REN
Cao Ren was a second cousin of Cao Cao, and served as a military general under him. He played a significant role in the formation of Wei, and was lauded for his role in the conquest of the north.
Cao Ren’s Heavenly Presence ability makes his very appearance on the battlefield a source of hope for his men, even when in the direst of situations. This active buff increases the morale of the units around Cao Ren, and also heals all nearby units and heroes by a small amount.
He is available in the 182, 190, 194, and 200 CE start dates in Cao Cao’s faction.
CAO PI
Cao Pi was the eldest son of Cao Cao and Lady Bian. After succeeding his father he established the kingdom of Wei, a proclamation which led to the formation of Shu Han and Wu.
He is a child from 187 CE through to the 200 CE start date, but comes of age in 203 CE, three years after the start of Fates Divided.
LADY ZHEN
Lady Zhen was initially the wife of Yuan Shao’s son, Yuan Xi. During the conflict against the Yuan clan she was captured by Cao Cao, and later married his son Cao Pi.
She comes of age in 199 CE and is only available in Fates Divided.
FA ZHENG
Fa Zheng was the advisor to Liu Zhang, and earned recognition for his strategic brilliance from Zhuge Liang. He was dissatisfied with Liu Zhang’s rule so betrayed his master and defected to Liu Bei.
Fa Zheng’s Mock ability sees him accost the enemy hero, wounding their pride and shaking them to the core. This ability, when activated, targets an enemy hero and reduces their melee attack rate as well as lowering morale and doing a small amount of AP damage.
He is available in the 194 and 200 CE start dates.
BALANCING
CAMPAIGN
Changed Age of Adulthood to 16 years old across all campaigns. This was previously the case in 182 CE, but other campaigns had this at 18 years old. This brings it closer to the historical precedent
Gate Passes now give a bonus to commerce income in adjacent owned regions
BATTLE
Reduced tier 3 sentinel melee evasion from 80 to 60 in custom battle
Reduced tier 2 sentinel melee evasion from 48 to 28 in custom battle. This also effects tier 3 vanguards and commanders
Increased tier 2 and 3 champions melee evasions in custom battle to match vanguards and commanders
Increased Guan Yu’s Green Dragon Blade AP from 1152 to 1324
Units
Changed Chen Peacekeeper cost from 800 to 850
Increased speed of units when exhausted
Doubled damage against routing units
Any heroes with morale lower than 50 have had their morale increased in line with the morale of other heroes. There is now less variety in morale between heroes and overall they should now be less likely to rout
Reduced charge damage of Nanman Tiger Warriors from 535 to 164
Reduced charge damage of Nanman Tiger Slingers from 325 to 132
Halved the splash damage of Tigers
Morale and Fatigue Changes
Minor changes that will help solidify the rebalance of cavalry and missile troops below, with the aim of shifting the battle meta away from cavalry and missile shock damage and onto a more combined arms, attritional combat system.
All units now have reduced morale when fatigued, with a maximum of -12 morale when exhausted
Decreased the morale impact of a general’s death after the initial shock has worn off
Vastly increased the chances that one unit routing is likely to make another allied unit rout
Decreased morale impact from recent losses while increasing the morale impact from total losses
A unit is now only affected by terror when wavering, instead of shaken. This will decrease the power of terror
Slight reduction to damage when fatigued, with a maximum of -30% base and AP damage when exhausted
Increased fatigue regeneration when “idle” or “ready”, which should see units regain stamina when out of combat much quicker
Decrease fatigue rate during combat, which should see units tire less quickly due to being in combat
Cavalry and Missile
Cavalry and missile troops have been reduced in lethality across the board, with the intention of putting them in line with the current killing power of infantry.
Cavalry charges do less damage initially but now run further into the unit than they did previously
AP damage and accuracy of all bows has been reduced
Reload speed reduced slightly for bows and crossbows
Reduced chance for units to friendly fire with missiles
Missile units should now be less likely to run forwards when their line of sight is blocked
Cataphracts have higher mass, and should now be able to smash through enemy lines
ABILITIES
Reduced the lethality of caltrops by 90%
Reduced morale impact from flaming maces from -15 to -10
Guan Yu’s Unstoppable ability now additionally grants 20% increase in AP damage, 10 melee defense and makes Guan Yu unbreakable
UI QUALITY OF LIFE IMPROVEMENTS
CAMPAIGN
When you reach the capacity for a unit type, they will now be shown in the recruitment list but as invalid with a tooltip explaining why
Fixed an issue where the notification suppression options wouldn’t function correctly
Fixed an issue where the notification toggle button would get out of sync with the current state
BUG FIXES
CAMPAIGN
Fixed a rare bug where characters would be adults but still have their child portrait
Meng Huo’s Silver Pit Ravine event now provides a 25% reduction to building costs in the region
Fixed the Assignments panel showing fewer slots available for each character on assignment in the province than there should be
Fixed Wei Yan’s armour so it is now unequippable (as this is his personal armour)
Fixed Nanman tier 5 Regional Palace giving bonus to peasantry income instead of bonus to all income
Fix for character used for Yang Hong’s name in Chinese; 洪 replaced with 弘
Fix for Liu Bei’s character trait that increases militia unit rank so that it applies when regionless as well
Fix for Yuan Shao’s duke rank having the wrong captain retinue bonus
Fix for some of Shi Xie’s tribute chests having the wrong effect scopes, causing the bonuses to not apply
Fix for Nanman players being spammed with untradeable common ancillaries. They were wrongly set so it was possible to gain them after battles – this is no longer true
Fix for some characters wrongly getting the Miasma buff:
Wei Yan
Li Ru
Xun You
Fix for Xu Shu not being able to equip the correct weapon types (Twin Axes, Twin Swords, Twin Maces)
Fixed discrepancies between front-end traits and in-game traits for Shi Xie
Career trait bonuses for Dong Zhuo, Lady Zhurong, and Meng Huo now match between front-end and campaign
Fixed issue where Xiahou Dun and Xiahou Yuan could spawn randomly before events
Fixed issue where the experience bonuses for Xun You were wrongly mixed up between Romance mode and Records mode
Fixed some effect bundles using incorrect icons for unit melee stats
Fixed issue where Lü Bu’s Momentum mechanic was not properly counting successful duels
Fixed issue for Lü Bu and Sun Ce where the sub-objectives for their mechanics were not being ticked off properly on the UI
Sun Ce’s Ambitions will now correctly track if the player gains regions in ways other than military occupation after a siege
Fixed issue where exiting the quick diplomacy screen would reset the campaign camera angle
Fixed issue where the title button was appearing for Yellow Turban characters
Fixed issue where famous characters could be born to the wrong parents
Weapons can no longer be “stolen” from characters post battle if they were not captured
Fixed issue where Liu Biao’s vassals were not giving Governance at campaign start in the 190 CE campaign
Fixed issue where Mercenary Contracts were not working correctly and players were not receiving rewards for them
Fixed an issue that could cause Gan Ning to spawn multiple times in the same campaign
Fixed issue where annex was not working correctly for Liu Hong when he has Dynasty tier 3
Fixed issue where only one title would be shown as unlocked per turn, even if multiple were actually unlocked
Fixed issue where peace with a faction was unavailable if the target faction joined a military alliance while having an alliance war
Fixed issue where rebels wouldn’t spawn for Nanman-owned regions outside of Nanman lands
Burning Mace weapon now has correct stats in Records mode
King Mulu will no longer lose his 25% Family Estates income bonus when saving/loading
BATTLE
Fixed issue where melee units were not properly attacking barricades
Fixed issue where multiple building levels were appearing on top of each other in siege battles
Increased infantry turn rate – this should fix issues where certain cavalry units couldn’t remount
Fixed issues with the reload rate not being correctly applied by the Miasma ability
Fix for the following characters missing weapons in battles:
Huang Gai
Guo Jia
Jia Xu
Pang Tong
Diao Chan
Xun Yu
Xun Yu and Diao Chan now can correctly use their abilities in battles
Varied the armour values of the unique Nanman characters (Meng Huo, Wutugu, Shamoke, Lady Zhurong)
Fixed the range of Imperial Palace Crossbowmen – this is now 250
Fixed issue where upkeep costs for White Horse Fellows and White Horse Raiders were the wrong way round
Fixed Wolf Pack unit special ability not correctly triggering when in range of another Wolf Pack unit
Xun You now correctly gives formations in custom battles
Fixed an issue where you could stack the Flaming Mace ability when using a hero and a unit against a single target, creating a -100 melee defence and -30 morale debuff.
Fixed a placeholder icon that appeared on Lady Zhurong’s Flying Daggers ability
Removed caltrops from Azure Dragons due to an issue where the unit would become stuck when trying to deploy them while in Mixed Spear formation
Fix for Rending Strike ability not working when character is equipped with a short weapon
Fixed issue where Wutugu had 100% melee evasion in custom battles
Defensive Siege AI behaviour slightly improved on some maps where there were mistakes in the logic markup
Anyone else have a habit of not executing Legendary Lords? Like if they age out, thats fine. But when an entire faction is nothing but the same old borderline faceless yellow/blue/purp/green/red dude, alot of narrative fun is gone for me.
I assume the next DLC will be the actual formation of the titular Three Kingdoms? Isn’t that next chronologically?
nels1031 wrote: Anyone else have a habit of not executing Legendary Lords? Like if they age out, thats fine. But when an entire faction is nothing but the same old borderline faceless yellow/blue/purp/green/red dude, alot of narrative fun is gone for me.
I assume the next DLC will be the actual formation of the titular Three Kingdoms? Isn’t that next chronologically?
Probably not quite yet.
Chi Bi (Red Cliffs) is coming up. But since that was a huge naval battle (likely the biggest ever), it might get skipped. Instead, the next DLC might start immediately afterwards. After Chi Bi, you have Liu Bei moving west to acquire a territory of his own. There's some friction with Wu during this period, though the alliance between the two still holds. Cao Cao, on the other hand, has intentionally pulled his armies back, and abandons Jing Province (which he acquired when Liu Biao's heir swore fealty to him). Not only does Cao Cao need to rebuild his armies after the disaster at Chi Bi, but he correctly guesses that without immediate danger from Cao Cao's armies, his two enemies will start to squabble over Jing Province. Liu Bei supports the claim of Liu Biao's other son (who didn't join Cao Cao) to Jing Province, but that son dies childless not long afterwards. Liu Bei then claims the province for himself, but this angers the Sun family, who also want the province. An agreement is reached in which Liu Bei agrees to relinquish the province to the unhappy Wu after he establishes his own territory. He then heads west to Chengdu. He is initially invited into Chengdu by Liu Zhang, who is the ruler of the region. But Liu Bei ends up betraying his host and seizing it for his own. This marks the establishment of the third kingdom of Shu Han.
However, even after establishing his new kingdom, Liu Bei still continues to come up with excuses whenever Wu asks for Jing Province to be turned over to them. This will eventually cause Wu to accept a secret alliance with Wei, and launch a surprise attack against Guan Yu in Jing Province. Liu Bei's two sworn brothers will both be killed in the ensuing campaign. Guan Yu will die at the hands of the armies of Wei and Wu, while Zhang Fei will be killed by his own men.
Meanwhile, in Wei, Cao Cao has recruited a new advisor named Sima Yi...
LordofHats wrote: I only do it when playing Yellow Turbans, because of course I would kill them all XD
I do it as Zheng Jiang, for certain generals at least. Faction leaders? Execute them. Legendary generals? Maybe, if they are unlikely to ever join me and to add their weapon to my collection.
Titled "Moving on from Total War: Three Kingdoms".
At work right now, so can't listen, but judging by the comments it seems no more DLC coming for 3K, but another game is coming in the 3K setting.
Seems kind of odd, given that we haven't even gotten to the "Three Kingdoms" part of the narrative in the game titled "Three Kingdoms".
Kind of lame to be honest (if thats truly the case) and makes the 8 Princes DLC seem even more like a waste of time\/resources. Would've definitely preferred a DLC that kept the story closer to the main game, rather than them skipping 100ish years.
Saw that. The devs have confirmed that the game is done. No more releases.
Thing is, there had been word that the next DLC was supposed to include the northern nomads. So I'm inclined to think that this was a surprise to the team. I'm guessing that the original plan was to lead with the Eight Princes DLC, and then roll back to "How did we get here?". Obviously, that plan got cut short. And probably the two most important foreign groups - the Koreans and the Turkic nomads - got left out.
They've already said that another game is planned, that won't be a sequel. That makes me wonder whether they found something in the game that made it impossible to implement some of the planned development. Or perhaps the bugs were getting too difficult to control, and a fresh start will help fix this. Either way, it's disappointing, and also means that they currently don't have a major (i.e. non-Saga) historical title for the public to look forward to
I think it might just be that whilst the game had phenomenal early sales, its not maintained the active playerbase that CA were hoping for in the medium and long term. Warhammer TW still totally dominates the active player market.
It might be that they feel something was wrong with the formula and approach to the game; so rather than try and make fundamental changes through an expansion (which might backfire); they are instead working on a new title instead.
Let's also not forget that CA don't tend to DLC milk their titles that often; in fact Warhammer TW is the only one that they've ever really done that for. Typically most of their games get one or two expansions; a few unit/faction packs and then they move onto a new game. So if anything Three Kingdoms is just being a normal CATW game
I suspect Overread is right. Some of their DLC choices have been particularly odd, and while I have no complaints about them it is weird that they've mostly prioritized different start dates and even the War of Eight Princes over more substantial content. The Nanman also seemed to hit a bit lacklusterly, least of all because they leaned heavily into the more fantastic element of the setting.
I think in a sense they didn't quite know what way to take it. We also have to remember that whilst Three Kingdoms might only really have Dynasty Warrior games in the Western market (which are fantasy); the Chinese market has a lot lot more. I'd wager its as prolific there as WW2 is as a setting is in the west for games.
So I think in a way CA were experimenting with Three Kingdoms and doing a more fantasy expansion was perhaps part of that in seeing what might or might not work for them.
I'm not surprised they are giving it another shot with a new game; the initial sales are certainly very powerful and a sequel will likely do very well. A second go in a new market for them might give them the chance to maximise on the aspects that work and those that work for their competition in that market.
I highly suspect whatever game comes next is probably going to be more focused on what was profitable in TW3K, though I have no idea what that'll mean for the end product. 3K was the best total war in years imo, but it was definitely controversial in the audience (western audience at least) for how it embraced more fantastical game elements.
CA have an advantage in that the RTS market is basically dead at present from AAA and high grade independent developers producing games for it.
However this also means that the fantasy and historical markets are both coming to CA for a game and that means CA has two very powerful market groups who want different things. One group wants historical games the other wants historical battles with fantasy.
It means no matter what they deliver, some segment is going to be unhappy and loud about it. That said so long as they keep releasing quality games they'll still make up for it with pure sales power.
I'd love for others to step into the market and we are seeing a few. Microsoft keeps dabbling with remasters and there's a new Age of Empires on the horizon
After finishing it, I’m definitely not as negative about it as I was. Serves me right for reading Youtube comments.
Would have enjoyed a few more DLCs for the base game, for sure, but if they feel its time to stick a fork in it, I’m cool with it. Just feels like they are leaving the story half finished, I suppose.
My only worry after watching the video is that the scope of the next 3K games will be reduced. Time will tell.
As an aside....
Yesterday, via Three Kingdoms facebook group, I learned there was a “build instantly” option for building. Yep, 600+ hours in and just discovered that.
I suspect they might try to cash in on Dynasty Warriors taking a nose dive and offer an alternative game that really goes ham on the more heroic elements of 3K. More focus on the main characters of the Romantic novel and the events of it, less on a 4x game. Not like a 3d action game mind you, but kind of like their Saga titles, which focus more on action and fantasy and less on strategy.
LordofHats wrote: I suspect they might try to cash in on Dynasty Warriors taking a nose dive and offer an alternative game that really goes ham on the more heroic elements of 3K. More focus on the main characters of the Romantic novel and the events of it, less on a 4x game. Not like a 3d action game mind you, but kind of like their Saga titles, which focus more on action and fantasy and less on strategy.
The only Dynasty Warriors game that's done poorly of late is 9, the most recent one. 8 was well-received. And it's generally accepted that many of the flaws of 9 were largely a result of the new open world aspect of that game. Riding across all of Three Kingdoms Era China can be fun... once. While Koei-Tecmo has had a rocky reception for some of the company's other recent muso games (Warriors All-Stars comes to mind), the genre as a whole seems to be expanding right now, with even Persona getting a recent muso title (Persona 5 Strikers).
nels1031 wrote:Just feels like they are leaving the story half finished, I suppose.
I'm pretty sure that they are, and I'm pretty sure that this announcement was a surprise to the team working on the game. We knew the northern nomad tribes were being worked on, and that means that at least one more release was planned. Further, the excuse for the Eight Princes DLC, which was the first real DLC (ignoring the Yellow Turban early purchase reward DLC), was essentially "We're showing you where it all ends up." That strongly implies that there was an intent to show us how it got there. Instead, we got left in a "Who are all of these Sima people?" situation, as the founder of the dynasty - Sima Yi - hasn't even appeared in a start yet (he was hired by Cao Cao right around the same time as Red Cliffs).
Oh, well. It's not in my hands.
My only worry after watching the video is that the scope of the next 3K games will be reduced.
The impression that I got is that the Three Kingdoms team is now going to make up a new China-focused (or possibly Asian-focused; Shogun might move under their umbrella) team that will produce historical games that focus on China (or, again, possibly Asia in general). Presumably there will be a different team that will be responsible for creating new historical games set in the West. If true, hopefully this means that posts about Asian and Warhammer games will no longer be filled with whining comments demanding that the game in question be dropped immediately so that work can commence on Medieval 3 or Empire 2. If true, that would mean (for the time being) a fantasy team (Warhammer at the moment), an Asian historical team, a Western historical team, and a Saga team.
Overread wrote:We also have to remember that whilst Three Kingdoms might only really have Dynasty Warrior games in the Western market (which are fantasy); the Chinese market has a lot lot more. I'd wager its as prolific there as WW2 is as a setting is in the west for games.
Ironically, the only major publisher releasing Three Kingdoms games in the West is a Japanese company. On a more serious note, the company in question - Koei-Tecmo - actually has two Three Kingdoms franchises. Dynasty Warriors is by far the better known. But Koei-Tecmo also produces the very serious "Romance of the Three Kingdoms" strategy game. I haven't played it, but I have played a couple of iterations of their similar Sengoku-Jidai franchise strategy game, Nobunaga's Ambition.
The game is getting massively review bombed on Steam right now. Fans (while decrying the bombing) are joking about the game having lost the mandate of heaven.
I thought steam had some anti-review-bomb measures put into place to stop that happening (or at least lessen its impact)
The sad part is I bet many of those leaving negatives over this would also leave negatives over if CA said they were going to release a further 10 DLC packs over the next 5 years. It's one of those cases where you can't win
Eumerin wrote: The game is getting massively review bombed on Steam right now. Fans (while decrying the bombing) are joking about the game having lost the mandate of heaven.
If Steam has measures to prevent review bombing, they don't appear to be working. The game's store page shows the number of positive and negative reviews posted on a weekly and daily basis, and there have been a ridiculous number of negative reviews since yesterday.
Being a bit more explicit/open about whats coming next would’ve possibly reduced some of the asschafe. It just seemed so abrupt. Maybe some technical jargon about how the current engine is taxed out and they need to move on to a new one or somesuch? Instead we got a 3 minute video half full of useless, but fun trivia and then “Great Happy News” corporate talk with a double side of vague promises.
With that said, all the negativity seems overblown, I don’t recall it being like this for TW: Warhams 1 or 2? Initially I was a downer on it, but having had time to digest the news, I’m at peace with it. It was definitely a shock to me, but I get it. Its most definitely a business/bean counter decision. This was the fastest selling TW out of the gate and I’m sure the people holding the purse want another dose of that, rather than continuing with dripfeed 15$+ DLC that not everyone gets after burning out on the game through the past 2 years.
Being a bit more explicit/open about whats coming next would’ve possibly reduced some of the asschafe. It just seemed so abrupt. Maybe some technical jargon about how the current engine is taxed out and they need to move on to a new one or somesuch? Instead we got a 3 minute video half full of useless, but fun trivia and then “Great Happy News” corporate talk with a double side of vague promises.
Agreed. The announcement was basically along the lines of, "Enjoy the patch! Oh, and by the way, we're not doing anything further with this game."
The news about something new set in the same era doesn't really help because we don't know what this new thing is supposed to be, and why it's different from the game that they just "ended".
With that said, all the negativity seems overblown, I don’t recall it being like this for TW: Warhams 1 or 2? Initially I was a downer on it, but having had time to digest the news, I’m at peace with it. It was definitely a shock to me, but I get it. Its most definitely a business/bean counter decision. This was the fastest selling TW out of the gate and I’m sure the people holding the purse want another dose of that, rather than continuing with dripfeed 15$+ DLC that not everyone gets after burning out on the game through the past 2 years.
While I agree that the negativity is probably overblown, I don't think comparing it with Warhammer 1 and 2 is a good idea. Those individual games are done. But -
1.) CA delivered on nearly everything that could have been expected. About the only things players wanted that never showed up were playable Araby and Tilea. And some of the stuff - such as Vampire Coast - was completely unexpected. In short, both games have exceeded the expectations of the players.
2.) CA "abandoning" those games doesn't really mean "the end" of them. While any further work (such as the Empire revamp) is an unexpected bonus, it's understood that the games will live in in the combined game world domination campaigns. Even though Warhammer 1 is technically "dead", there are still new challenges to be faced by an Empire player whenever the second or third games receive an update. The true test in this area will be when the third game is declared "done". But assuming my first point also ends up applying to the third game, I think even then any complaints will be muted.
3.) Three Kingdoms still had things that had been stated were in development (specifically, the northern nomads). But now we've suddenly discovered that the game has stopped development, and there are no nomads on the way. We know exactly how much more we're going to get out of Warhammer 2 (one more dlc before the third game), so there's no particular surprise about the upcoming "end' of the game. And players don't really have anything further to look forward to with that game.
On another note -
Total War Access is currently offering the soundtrack for the Furious Wild DLC for free. The info posted seems to suggest that this is only a limited-time offer.
Part of me wonders if the cancellation, especially of the Northern Nomads might be related to current events. The same region that was their home is known for something else now, and culturally the modern Uyghurs probably descend at least in part from the Xiongnu*. The origins of Uyghurs are tied up in a lot of domestic politics in China (they directly connect themselves to the Xiongnu, the Chinese government insists they're Mongols from Mongolia; genetic research kind of supports both propositions because neither is really exclusive).
*Or at least, the ones in the north-west. 'Xiongnu' as a term didn't really differentiate between culture groups way back then. It meant basically everyone who was in the north and central Asia who was a horse nomad.
I am pretty disappointed, I only played 3 Kingdoms for about 30 hours (compared to 900 hours of Warhammer 2), but I was looking forward to the Xiongnu/Koreans and seeing the timeline completed.
What I dislike the most is that they will be selling a new 3 Kingdoms that is not connected to this one.
I do not want to pay full price for a new 3 Kingdoms game (or even Saga price) and the one I have feels incomplete.
CA will continue to get my support for Warhammer, but for their future 3K games I will wait for sales.
LordofHats wrote: Part of me wonders if the cancellation, especially of the Northern Nomads might be related to current events. The same region that was their home is known for something else now, and culturally the modern Uyghurs probably descend at least in part from the Xiongnu*. The origins of Uyghurs are tied up in a lot of domestic politics in China (they directly connect themselves to the Xiongnu, the Chinese government insists they're Mongols from Mongolia; genetic research kind of supports both propositions because neither is really exclusive).
*Or at least, the ones in the north-west. 'Xiongnu' as a term didn't really differentiate between culture groups way back then. It meant basically everyone who was in the north and central Asia who was a horse nomad.
I don't think that would have been an issue. The fact that the Xiongnu and Xianbe were active at this time is not in dispute. And the Uyghers as a distinct group didn't show up until later. So I don't see any particular reason why Beijing would feel touchy about it.
Eumerin wrote: So I don't see any particular reason why Beijing would feel touchy about it.
It features in Turkish nationalism in the region. The Uyghurs say they've been there for thousands of years, they claim the Xiongnu in that part of China as part of their history. China is very very anti-nationalism, unless that nationalism is Han Chinese XD
It might be unrelated, I'm just kind of wondering cause there is that connection there.
Eumerin wrote: So I don't see any particular reason why Beijing would feel touchy about it.
It features in Turkish nationalism in the region. The Uyghurs say they've been there for thousands of years, they claim the Xiongnu in that part of China as part of their history. China is very very anti-nationalism, unless that nationalism is Han Chinese XD.
Yeah, I get that, but it really devolves down to whether the Uyghurs themselves are descended from the Xiongnu. The fact that there were Turkic peoples there isn't in dispute. The Xianbe, another Turkic group from the Three Kingdoms era, made up one of the famous "five kingdoms" in the era immediately following the collapse of the Jin. What Beijing is doing is arguing over which Turkic groups the Uyghurs split off from. And since the Xiognu and Xianbe don't exist as such anymore (I think the bulk of them ultimately got absorbed into the Han), I would think that they're safe for portrayal.
LordofHats wrote: Part of me wonders if the cancellation, especially of the Northern Nomads might be related to current events. The same region that was their home is known for something else now, and culturally the modern Uyghurs probably descend at least in part from the Xiongnu*. The origins of Uyghurs are tied up in a lot of domestic politics in China (they directly connect themselves to the Xiongnu, the Chinese government insists they're Mongols from Mongolia; genetic research kind of supports both propositions because neither is really exclusive).
*Or at least, the ones in the north-west. 'Xiongnu' as a term didn't really differentiate between culture groups way back then. It meant basically everyone who was in the north and central Asia who was a horse nomad.
Doubtful as the market already has a lot of Three Kingdoms games in China.
I suspect it could be more to do with either
1) They realise that they need to make so many big changes that its basically a new game from the ground up to get to where they feel it will work.
2) They are having work issues because of Corona and such and thus with a big project - Warhammer 3 - already on the cards, they simply do not have the staff time to dedicate to Three Kingdoms as they originally thought.
Parts 1 and 2 might well be combined as well.
We have to consider that over the last year, even firms that can more easily remote work still suffer issues and have had sometimes months of downtime where work has been halted or significantly slowed. To say nothing of issues with work across international boarders where one set of staff might be locked down and unable to work and that halts or stalls development on a project.
Eumerin wrote: If Steam has measures to prevent review bombing, they don't appear to be working. The game's store page shows the number of positive and negative reviews posted on a weekly and daily basis, and there have been a ridiculous number of negative reviews since yesterday.
That is the anti review bomb meassure, as in to show you an overtime score and a more recent score.
And it's a good compromise imo, because some companies, including CA and SEGA, seriously need a reality check on their behaviour
Strawman is strawman 
