prastie wrote: The models don't come with all of the weapon options and I won't buy two models just to get one with the loadout that I want.
This is something I find crazy for the AT release (and is another reason I have not bought it). Why not include a lot of options? Granted I am a big fan of N17 and they release the gangs with a few options and the rest are from Forge World (I did buy the forge World upgrade packs and am moderately happy with them). However are they gunna do it like N17 with upgrades available from FW? Or is it gunna be like the 40k knight kits? First is basic knight with limited options, next release have to get an entire new knight to get the carapace weapons and latest is buy another entire new knight to get all the weapons + the new weapon and cockpit guy.
somewhere in the middle, alt weps will be its own box kit/blister.
some will be plastic and sold by GW, others will be resin and sold by FW. what the ratio of plastic to resin is and when they will be released we dont know, but juding how long it has taken to just release 3 titans, dont expect them before end of november/december.
moust likely reason for this is that the warlord and reaver has alot of alt weps. it could easily be 1 or 2 extra sprue frames. that could make box price even higer then it is now if included whit the titan.
plus not all players wants or need the alt weps and for them it would just be 1-2 wasted sprues.
Executive Summary: Not offering enough shiny and different (skirmish) to offset the high risk (support, completely different scale, cost) of investment.
The Good:
- The models go together incredibly well, very precise fits, I enjoyed putting them together (for someone else).
- Thoughtful detail, I am pretty sure they made some round pockets specifically to put magnets in for weapon swaps.
- The detail is very nice, the panel lines, vents are incredibly well done (would have liked the toes on the feet to be separate bits but easy enough to cut out to articulate.
- Rules have sufficient detail that it feels like a complex walking battleship (cruiser? destroyer?).
The Bad:
- Expensive. I keep looking at the big box at $300 in my local store... just cannot do it.
- The scale I think is meant to be "different", so we are forced to buy more into the GW product and not other stuff out there which leads to...
- Slow releases. We have some terrain and some models but it may take some time before this game would feel even remotely fleshed-out. It is a very new game so it does feel more on it's own than some of the other box-set games.
- People I think are jittery about investing in this game and it possibly being perceived as a "total bust" and being dropped.
I really would like to see another kick at the can of releasing a new and improved "Epic" game but I think this is not it.
The scale is just big enough to keep everything around a "skirmish" sized game, it feels like it is trying to compete with 40k: the Epic game was for playing those huge battles for a couple hours hat take a few days to play as Apocalypse.
I have not seen any of the boxes move at my local hobby shop, I love the models but not enough to buy them and it looks like I would not have anyone to play.
Executive Summary: Not offering enough shiny and different (skirmish) to offset the high risk (support, completely different scale, cost) of investment.
The whole summary is very well said. I did buy into it, but I feel the same about most of those points. They should have at least had the 3 main titans and knights ready before releasing. The game is incomplete without at least your 3 titans and knights. It was frankly pathetic that they released the game with only 2 models and imo is the main reason so much scorn was levied at the game at release - In addition to its high cost. I can forgive the high buy-in cost since at this point having a whole collection won't cost much more than the buy-in.
The support question is a big unknown though, and a GW doesn't have a very good track record with that. Even if the game does pull a profit, it doesn't mean they'll keep supporting it if the number-trolls at GW decide that it would be better to invest that support-time/money elsewhere. People are hesitant to buy in due to GW's opportunistic support. Lower profit because people aren't buying it, so they pull support. At some point it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.
SirWeeble wrote: The support question is a big unknown though, and a GW doesn't have a very good track record with that. Even if the game does pull a profit, it doesn't mean they'll keep supporting it if the number-trolls at GW decide that it would be better to invest that support-time/money elsewhere. People are hesitant to buy in due to GW's opportunistic support. Lower profit because people aren't buying it, so they pull support. At some point it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.
GW have promised retailers at least 18 months of support for Specialist Games (and some other details - Necromunda is 1 new gang per quarter, for example). We should be getting details about the weapon packs soon (due out before Christmas) and then some idea what's coming next.
My impression is the game is doing well in some areas - those with some enthusiasts able to support excitement; and not add well in others - those without individuals willing to create a community.
All in all, I'd say the jury is still out on overall success.
GW has had to reprint Reavers, and through there are still GM boxes on the street, they are out at GW.
The telling data yet to come is how secondary printings sell.
Sherrypie wrote: Sadly they just happen to be boring, boxy and generic scibots. Njeh.
Meanwhile, Warhounds are soon upon us
they're "third party battlemechs" is what they are. they're battletech mini sized and those sculpts are all a pretty close fit for some Btech units out there
Executive Summary: Not offering enough shiny and different (skirmish) to offset the high risk (support, completely different scale, cost) of investment.
The Good:
- The models go together incredibly well, very precise fits, I enjoyed putting them together (for someone else).
- Thoughtful detail, I am pretty sure they made some round pockets specifically to put magnets in for weapon swaps.
- The detail is very nice, the panel lines, vents are incredibly well done (would have liked the toes on the feet to be separate bits but easy enough to cut out to articulate.
- Rules have sufficient detail that it feels like a complex walking battleship (cruiser? destroyer?).
The Bad:
- Expensive. I keep looking at the big box at $300 in my local store... just cannot do it.
- The scale I think is meant to be "different", so we are forced to buy more into the GW product and not other stuff out there which leads to...
- Slow releases. We have some terrain and some models but it may take some time before this game would feel even remotely fleshed-out. It is a very new game so it does feel more on it's own than some of the other box-set games.
- People I think are jittery about investing in this game and it possibly being perceived as a "total bust" and being dropped.
I really would like to see another kick at the can of releasing a new and improved "Epic" game but I think this is not it.
The scale is just big enough to keep everything around a "skirmish" sized game, it feels like it is trying to compete with 40k: the Epic game was for playing those huge battles for a couple hours hat take a few days to play as Apocalypse.
I have not seen any of the boxes move at my local hobby shop, I love the models but not enough to buy them and it looks like I would not have anyone to play.
Slight issue - let me guess, you're going by the whole "it's 8mm" thing? Because it's not, it's around 1:267 scale which puts a load of classic Epic stuff exactly in-scale or very near it, and a lot of third-party stuff the same - Vanguard's entire "6mm" infantry range, for example, or that third party not-Lucius Warlord. If you're letting folk in your area be put off by the scale, you're letting them be put off by a myth.
I'm also not sure what folk are waiting for regarding the game feeling "fleshed out", beyond the weapon sprues which aren't actually required to play(not that I excuse GW for failing to release them alongside their respective Titans, mind). With the three core Titan chassis and regular Knights the system is functionally complete and capable of generating an experience with far more depth and variety in gameplay than anything else GW produce right now. It seems like your complaint here is less that the game isn't sufficiently fleshed out, and more that it's not Epic. But it was never meant to be Epic, it's Adeptus Titanicus.
The cost thing has been done to death, but while I agree the Grandmaster box is a serious case of sticker shock, there's zero need to buy that, it's not a starter set just a discount bundle.
Honestly right now most of the issues I see people putting forward about the system are misconceptions.
Sherrypie wrote: Sadly they just happen to be boring, boxy and generic scibots. Njeh.
Meanwhile, Warhounds are soon upon us
they're "third party battlemechs" is what they are. they're battletech mini sized and those sculpts are all a pretty close fit for some Btech units out there
I am entirely aware of that. That does not in anyway diminish my opinion of them being boring, boxy and generic, thus uninteresting.
Executive Summary: Not offering enough shiny and different (skirmish) to offset the high risk (support, completely different scale, cost) of investment.
The Good:
- The models go together incredibly well, very precise fits, I enjoyed putting them together (for someone else).
- Thoughtful detail, I am pretty sure they made some round pockets specifically to put magnets in for weapon swaps.
- The detail is very nice, the panel lines, vents are incredibly well done (would have liked the toes on the feet to be separate bits but easy enough to cut out to articulate.
- Rules have sufficient detail that it feels like a complex walking battleship (cruiser? destroyer?).
The Bad:
- Expensive. I keep looking at the big box at $300 in my local store... just cannot do it.
- The scale I think is meant to be "different", so we are forced to buy more into the GW product and not other stuff out there which leads to...
- Slow releases. We have some terrain and some models but it may take some time before this game would feel even remotely fleshed-out. It is a very new game so it does feel more on it's own than some of the other box-set games.
- People I think are jittery about investing in this game and it possibly being perceived as a "total bust" and being dropped.
I really would like to see another kick at the can of releasing a new and improved "Epic" game but I think this is not it.
The scale is just big enough to keep everything around a "skirmish" sized game, it feels like it is trying to compete with 40k: the Epic game was for playing those huge battles for a couple hours hat take a few days to play as Apocalypse.
I have not seen any of the boxes move at my local hobby shop, I love the models but not enough to buy them and it looks like I would not have anyone to play.
Slight issue - let me guess, you're going by the whole "it's 8mm" thing? Because it's not, it's around 1:267 scale which puts a load of classic Epic stuff exactly in-scale or very near it, and a lot of third-party stuff the same - Vanguard's entire "6mm" infantry range, for example, or that third party not-Lucius Warlord. If you're letting folk in your area be put off by the scale, you're letting them be put off by a myth.
I'm also not sure what folk are waiting for regarding the game feeling "fleshed out", beyond the weapon sprues which aren't actually required to play(not that I excuse GW for failing to release them alongside their respective Titans, mind). With the three core Titan chassis and regular Knights the system is functionally complete and capable of generating an experience with far more depth and variety in gameplay than anything else GW produce right now. It seems like your complaint here is less that the game isn't sufficiently fleshed out, and more that it's not Epic. But it was never meant to be Epic, it's Adeptus Titanicus.
The cost thing has been done to death, but while I agree the Grandmaster box is a serious case of sticker shock, there's zero need to buy that, it's not a starter set just a discount bundle.
Honestly right now most of the issues I see people putting forward about the system are misconceptions.
It IS epic for some of us, that is to say that some (small minority) bought the titans to kick off our epic armies or to add to them, I’m very happy with being able to play 2 different games with my titans.
Does anyone else think the 8mm titans look more “correct” in scale with the 6mm Epic vehicles? I bought an Epic Warlord long after Epic died and when I opened the box I was surprised how small it is. I’m printing some 6mm vehicles and I think the look appropriate.
Fajita Fan wrote: Does anyone else think the 8mm titans look more “correct” in scale with the 6mm Epic vehicles? I bought an Epic Warlord long after Epic died and when I opened the box I was surprised how small it is. I’m printing some 6mm vehicles and I think the look appropriate.
That was Yodhrin's point just a few posts up - i.e. that despite rumors to the contrary, the titans appear to be correctly scaled for 6mm.
Fajita Fan wrote: Does anyone else think the 8mm titans look more “correct” in scale with the 6mm Epic vehicles? I bought an Epic Warlord long after Epic died and when I opened the box I was surprised how small it is. I’m printing some 6mm vehicles and I think the look appropriate.
That was Yodhrin's point just a few posts up - i.e. that despite rumors to the contrary, the titans appear to be correctly scaled for 6mm.
The 8 mm confusion stems from the developers musing on the possible Space Marine infantry, were such to ever come, looking about right as 8 mm tall. The old 6 mm infantry looks very good against the doors in the new buildings, bits of the titans and so forth.
This game is indeed closer to 6 mm in scale, which is good.
Fajita Fan wrote: Does anyone else think the 8mm titans look more “correct” in scale with the 6mm Epic vehicles? I bought an Epic Warlord long after Epic died and when I opened the box I was surprised how small it is. I’m printing some 6mm vehicles and I think the look appropriate.
That was Yodhrin's point just a few posts up - i.e. that despite rumors to the contrary, the titans appear to be correctly scaled for 6mm.
I know, that’s why I said “does anyone else” when I wrote that.
Fajita Fan wrote: Does anyone else think the 8mm titans look more “correct” in scale with the 6mm Epic vehicles? I bought an Epic Warlord long after Epic died and when I opened the box I was surprised how small it is. I’m printing some 6mm vehicles and I think the look appropriate.
That was Yodhrin's point just a few posts up - i.e. that despite rumors to the contrary, the titans appear to be correctly scaled for 6mm.
I know, that’s why I said “does anyone else” when I wrote that.
He has another thread somewhere around here where he actually shows the measurements that he made to demonstrate that the scale really is 6mm. So he's got something to back it up.
My FLGS and Warhammer stores have a good crowd of people playing AoS, 40k, Shadespire, Kill Team and Necromunda. I have never seen anyone playing a game of Adeptus Titanicus. I've never seen anyone ask who is playing on the facebook groups. I've never seen anyone come in and buy models for it. I've never heard anyone asking around in the store if any of us play it. The whole game system might as well not exist in my area, despite every other game GW produces having a healthy playerbase. Nobody wants to buy into a $300-500 game system with 2-3 models to choose from.
Toofast wrote: My FLGS and Warhammer stores have a good crowd of people playing AoS, 40k, Shadespire, Kill Team and Necromunda. I have never seen anyone playing a game of Adeptus Titanicus. I've never seen anyone ask who is playing on the facebook groups. I've never seen anyone come in and buy models for it. I've never heard anyone asking around in the store if any of us play it. The whole game system might as well not exist in my area, despite every other game GW produces having a healthy playerbase. Nobody wants to buy into a $300-500 game system with 2-3 models to choose from.
'Nobody' is anecdotal at best.
I like a game that's more limited in scope with models and rules. And despite their only being 4 models for AT, the variety of builds and ways to play is deeper than some games that have a bloated mess of models.
Don't underestimate the appeal of a lean game system that doesn't require a lifestyle change to wrap your head around. Also, what's stopping one from playing a single titan?
'Complete' does not necessarily mean it has a gaggle of models or rules.
Don't be surprised by some of us buying into because of the reasons you list that 'No one' wants.
I think it's a great game and if nothing else comes out for it, it's still a highly repayable system that only requires me to buy and paint a dozen giant robots. GW did something right because that's exactly what I was looking for.
It's also the first GW minis game I have bought since the original Titan Legions.
Another town bit north from where I play has 7 players for AT. Not that bad number. Almost 4 tables worth which is about what 40k fills in my town. Not too bad for "total bust" game. One issue is these guys are the kind that don't like playing with unpainted models and for obvious reason they don't have backlog of painted models so they are in mad painting stage
I have no idea how anyone paints a fully assembled Warlord that’s not just “spray ‘n wash” because I’m trying to paint the cabling and tubing in sub assemblies.
My assembly goal today is two more Reavers and two Warhounds. My group wants to walk through the rules in two weeks so I’m trying!
Fajita Fan wrote: I have no idea how anyone paints a fully assembled Warlord that’s not just “spray ‘n wash” because I’m trying to paint the cabling and tubing in sub assemblies.
My assembly goal today is two more Reavers and two Warhounds. My group wants to walk through the rules in two weeks so I’m trying!
prastie wrote: The models don't come with all of the weapon options and I won't buy two models just to get one with the loadout that I want.
This is something I find crazy for the AT release (and is another reason I have not bought it). Why not include a lot of options? Granted I am a big fan of N17 and they release the gangs with a few options and the rest are from Forge World (I did buy the forge World upgrade packs and am moderately happy with them). However are they gunna do it like N17 with upgrades available from FW? Or is it gunna be like the 40k knight kits? First is basic knight with limited options, next release have to get an entire new knight to get the carapace weapons and latest is buy another entire new knight to get all the weapons + the new weapon and cockpit guy.
I don't know. Could be that people were already going to complain about the cost so why throw in 1-2 more sprues and up the cost of each product by another 20-40... Who knows
Toofast wrote: My FLGS and Warhammer stores have a good crowd of people playing AoS, 40k, Shadespire, Kill Team and Necromunda. I have never seen anyone playing a game of Adeptus Titanicus. I've never seen anyone ask who is playing on the facebook groups. I've never seen anyone come in and buy models for it. I've never heard anyone asking around in the store if any of us play it. The whole game system might as well not exist in my area, despite every other game GW produces having a healthy playerbase. Nobody wants to buy into a $300-500 game system with 2-3 models to choose from.
'Nobody' is anecdotal at best.
I like a game that's more limited in scope with models and rules. And despite their only being 4 models for AT, the variety of builds and ways to play is deeper than some games that have a bloated mess of models.
Don't underestimate the appeal of a lean game system that doesn't require a lifestyle change to wrap your head around. Also, what's stopping one from playing a single titan?
'Complete' does not necessarily mean it has a gaggle of models or rules.
Don't be surprised by some of us buying into because of the reasons you list that 'No one' wants.
I think it's a great game and if nothing else comes out for it, it's still a highly repayable system that only requires me to buy and paint a dozen giant robots. GW did something right because that's exactly what I was looking for.
It's also the first GW minis game I have bought since the original Titan Legions.
I meant nobody in the context of the rest of the post, nobody in my area. I'm sure plenty of people in London or California or wherever else play it, but if nobody at FLGS or Warhammer stores in the entire southern half of Florida is playing it, then that's irrelevant to me.
Executive Summary: Not offering enough shiny and different (skirmish) to offset the high risk (support, completely different scale, cost) of investment.
The Good:
- The models go together incredibly well, very precise fits, I enjoyed putting them together (for someone else).
- Thoughtful detail, I am pretty sure they made some round pockets specifically to put magnets in for weapon swaps.
- The detail is very nice, the panel lines, vents are incredibly well done (would have liked the toes on the feet to be separate bits but easy enough to cut out to articulate.
- Rules have sufficient detail that it feels like a complex walking battleship (cruiser? destroyer?).
The Bad:
- Expensive. I keep looking at the big box at $300 in my local store... just cannot do it.
- The scale I think is meant to be "different", so we are forced to buy more into the GW product and not other stuff out there which leads to...
- Slow releases. We have some terrain and some models but it may take some time before this game would feel even remotely fleshed-out. It is a very new game so it does feel more on it's own than some of the other box-set games.
- People I think are jittery about investing in this game and it possibly being perceived as a "total bust" and being dropped.
I really would like to see another kick at the can of releasing a new and improved "Epic" game but I think this is not it.
The scale is just big enough to keep everything around a "skirmish" sized game, it feels like it is trying to compete with 40k: the Epic game was for playing those huge battles for a couple hours hat take a few days to play as Apocalypse.
I have not seen any of the boxes move at my local hobby shop, I love the models but not enough to buy them and it looks like I would not have anyone to play.
Slight issue - let me guess, you're going by the whole "it's 8mm" thing? Because it's not, it's around 1:267 scale which puts a load of classic Epic stuff exactly in-scale or very near it, and a lot of third-party stuff the same - Vanguard's entire "6mm" infantry range, for example, or that third party not-Lucius Warlord. If you're letting folk in your area be put off by the scale, you're letting them be put off by a myth.
I'm also not sure what folk are waiting for regarding the game feeling "fleshed out", beyond the weapon sprues which aren't actually required to play(not that I excuse GW for failing to release them alongside their respective Titans, mind). With the three core Titan chassis and regular Knights the system is functionally complete and capable of generating an experience with far more depth and variety in gameplay than anything else GW produce right now. It seems like your complaint here is less that the game isn't sufficiently fleshed out, and more that it's not Epic. But it was never meant to be Epic, it's Adeptus Titanicus.
The cost thing has been done to death, but while I agree the Grandmaster box is a serious case of sticker shock, there's zero need to buy that, it's not a starter set just a discount bundle.
Honestly right now most of the issues I see people putting forward about the system are misconceptions.
I couldn't exalt this twice so I am seconding this.
The game is diverse with just one faction of models. That's silly when you think about it.
How many games are out there that could provide an in depth dynamic game with critical decision making and challenges just with a gread total of models?!
Executive Summary: Not offering enough shiny and different (skirmish) to offset the high risk (support, completely different scale, cost) of investment.
The Good:
- The models go together incredibly well, very precise fits, I enjoyed putting them together (for someone else).
- Thoughtful detail, I am pretty sure they made some round pockets specifically to put magnets in for weapon swaps.
- The detail is very nice, the panel lines, vents are incredibly well done (would have liked the toes on the feet to be separate bits but easy enough to cut out to articulate.
- Rules have sufficient detail that it feels like a complex walking battleship (cruiser? destroyer?).
The Bad:
- Expensive. I keep looking at the big box at $300 in my local store... just cannot do it.
- The scale I think is meant to be "different", so we are forced to buy more into the GW product and not other stuff out there which leads to...
- Slow releases. We have some terrain and some models but it may take some time before this game would feel even remotely fleshed-out. It is a very new game so it does feel more on it's own than some of the other box-set games.
- People I think are jittery about investing in this game and it possibly being perceived as a "total bust" and being dropped.
I really would like to see another kick at the can of releasing a new and improved "Epic" game but I think this is not it.
The scale is just big enough to keep everything around a "skirmish" sized game, it feels like it is trying to compete with 40k: the Epic game was for playing those huge battles for a couple hours hat take a few days to play as Apocalypse.
I have not seen any of the boxes move at my local hobby shop, I love the models but not enough to buy them and it looks like I would not have anyone to play.
Slight issue - let me guess, you're going by the whole "it's 8mm" thing? Because it's not, it's around 1:267 scale which puts a load of classic Epic stuff exactly in-scale or very near it, and a lot of third-party stuff the same - Vanguard's entire "6mm" infantry range, for example, or that third party not-Lucius Warlord. If you're letting folk in your area be put off by the scale, you're letting them be put off by a myth.
I'm also not sure what folk are waiting for regarding the game feeling "fleshed out", beyond the weapon sprues which aren't actually required to play(not that I excuse GW for failing to release them alongside their respective Titans, mind). With the three core Titan chassis and regular Knights the system is functionally complete and capable of generating an experience with far more depth and variety in gameplay than anything else GW produce right now. It seems like your complaint here is less that the game isn't sufficiently fleshed out, and more that it's not Epic. But it was never meant to be Epic, it's Adeptus Titanicus.
The cost thing has been done to death, but while I agree the Grandmaster box is a serious case of sticker shock, there's zero need to buy that, it's not a starter set just a discount bundle.
Honestly right now most of the issues I see people putting forward about the system are misconceptions.
Thats it.
GME is good for starting, if you wanna Play the maniple with 2 Warlord Titans. If not, its enough to buy a Starter Set and pick a maniple of own choice. That is something people have to understand about Adeptus Titanicus. AT is not Warhammer 40000. You do not play masses of models. You have a limited choice of units and three different types of maniples. This is what keeps the game balanced. If you do not play Matched Play, you are free to do whatever you want. Create you own missions or play the scenarios from the Book.
I know many are struggling because its low amout of different units. It seems more like a historical tabletop with Infantry, Cavalry and Artillery. Missions are also limited. But most important: Everything works fine. The Core titans are out now. Sure, we will see more Imperial Knight variants in the future. Weapon sets indeed. But is doesnt need anything additional to play. Get a Rulebook, choose a maniple and buy the Titans you need to play.
Finally got to play my first game using actual Maniples this past weekend. My Axiom against my wife's Venator. My Warlord blew apart her Knight banner save 1, who proceeded to charge valiantly forth. Her Reaver's machine spirit stubbornly refused to do anything other than fire it's Laser Blaster before finally allowing it's Princeps to core out my own Reaver. Warhound-on-Warhound action on the flank had the scout titans keeling over firing wildly as they fell and blowing arms off of their squadron mates. My last Warhound's reactor was going critical so I charged it forward before it went nuclear amidst it's rivals. Her second Warhound squadron leapt over some refinery pipelines to kick my Knight banner around like footballs and pouring Mega Bolter fire into the survivors.
My point is, even with such limited choice in units right now, the game is full of epic moments (pun intended). It is tactically deep and yet has enough random in it to keep things surprising and entertaining. It is about as far from "bust" as I have felt about a game for as long as I can remember.
Oh it's doing great guns. From the vigilus weekender:
I had a good chat about releases, future support and future plans. The Specialist Games team were very frank and open.
Games are divided into Tier One and Tier Two. Tier One games are games such as Blood Bowl and Necromunda that will continue to receive releases every three months - that could be models, supplements or gaming tools such as dice. These are the products that bring in the steady revenue and allow the games to grow and develop but also provide the profits to develop new games. However, that means the design team have to continue planning, sculpting and writing these products which reduces the time to develop new games. Currently, the design team is still small and time is divided between the three current specialists games of Bloodbowl, Necro. and AT.
So, how does this affect Battlefleet?
The original intention was to start Battlefleet this year. However... when the team sat down and planned out the resources it would take to get Battlefleet up and running including rules production, designing the classes of ship into CAD, designing counters and all the 'bits' of the game - they realised they would have to pull every member of the Specialist team off every project for the next year. This is due to the small size of the team and the resources they have. Clearly this is not possible if the other released games need continuing support to grow and develop with new releases. This means that currently Battlefleet has been shelved.
But...
Due to the success of all the Specialist Games (the Warlord and Reaver have been two of the most successful kits produced by GW this year) there are plans to increase the size of the Specialist Games team both in designers and rules writers. This will lead to an increased production capability that means that Battlefleet will eventually be worked on but not in the near future.
So, disappointing news but that can be tempered against the idea that the department is expanding and doing very well - possibly better than expected.
tneva82 wrote: Yes. It sells pretty well. Indeed warlord and reaver titans seems to be some of the best selling releases this year.
Far from bust. Success of sg games has led increased staff and resources.
It might sell very well, but I have been unable to find a game with anyone in all of South Florida. I can find a game of AoS, Kill Team, 30k, 40k, Necromunda, Blood Bowl, Warmahordes, Infinity, even BFG. I cannot find a single person that actually plays AT18. I asked the owner of my FLGS, they said one person ordered a couple kits but nobody else has bought AT boxes of any kind and they've never seen a game played there. My Warhammer store said several people were interested but nobody has pulled the trigger yet. I've posted in local Facebook groups from Ft Myers to Miami to Boca Raton and nobody plays it. I asked my friend at the Warhammer store in Alabama I used to frequent, nobody plays it there. Same story at both FLGS I went to there. I asked at the Warhammer store near my parents' house in Ohio, nobody plays it there. Same story at an FLGS in Columbus. It might sell well on a global scale but in the largest cities in 3 different states I can't find a single person that has bought AT, ever played a game, or ever even witnessed someone else playing a game.
Nobody at my lgs bought it either, knight renegade box for 40k seems to do great though. I think this game may have done better in europe but it just tanked here in the states? Then again I don't know anyone around me who plays specialist games of any kind.
Oh it's doing great guns. From the vigilus weekender:
Due to the success of all the Specialist Games (the Warlord and Reaver have been two of the most successful kits produced by GW this year) there are plans to increase the size of the Specialist Games team both in designers and rules writers. This will lead to an increased production capability that means that Battlefleet will eventually be worked on but not in the near future.
So, disappointing news but that can be tempered against the idea that the department is expanding and doing very well - possibly better than expected.
tneva82 wrote: Yes. It sells pretty well. Indeed warlord and reaver titans seems to be some of the best selling releases this year.
Far from bust. Success of sg games has led increased staff and resources.
It might sell very well, but I have been unable to find a game with anyone in all of South Florida. I can find a game of AoS, Kill Team, 30k, 40k, Necromunda, Blood Bowl, Warmahordes, Infinity, even BFG. I cannot find a single person that actually plays AT18. I asked the owner of my FLGS, they said one person ordered a couple kits but nobody else has bought AT boxes of any kind and they've never seen a game played there. My Warhammer store said several people were interested but nobody has pulled the trigger yet. I've posted in local Facebook groups from Ft Myers to Miami to Boca Raton and nobody plays it. I asked my friend at the Warhammer store in Alabama I used to frequent, nobody plays it there. Same story at both FLGS I went to there. I asked at the Warhammer store near my parents' house in Ohio, nobody plays it there. Same story at an FLGS in Columbus. It might sell well on a global scale but in the largest cities in 3 different states I can't find a single person that has bought AT, ever played a game, or ever even witnessed someone else playing a game.
There's a bunch [what's a bunch?] of us in the northern VA area with it but that doesn't help you.
doktor_g wrote: Yeah Kirby was killing the company with hubris. Still that culture is there. But I think the ship (shop) is turning.
I think Kirby just had an eye for bigger profit gains and didn't want products that ticked over or hung on in there. Ergo I think he was chasing golden eggs. Which for a time worked, but steadily meant cutting weaker titles from the roster. I think the haphazard way GW updated many things at the time also meant niche games got ignored for too long, which meant to update them and make them a stronger seller required a bigger investment in one big lump sum.
I think one of the biggest changes internally for GW and FW has been dedicated teams on projects. Even if team members are shared around, it means X game gets a specific slot of time and money allocated to it. I think that should mean that gaps we've had before when products were ignored, should be significantly reduced and that GW doesn't have to turn around and invest big time to bring things back - because now the dedicated slot and time is already budgeted for.
We can see how GW is teasing things out; smaller investments that deliver a product (es pfor specialist games) in stages. Letting GW test the waters, use profits from sales to bolster the team and also leaves them the option to either change direction or abandon without a huge backlash. Take Necromunda, they could have stopped at any point with releases and it would have been "complete and functional" with what they had out there. Had it failed they could have stopped after gang war release and the models were out; the factions playable. Nothing much left hanging save for FW releases.
We see it with AT in how they tease out command modules for new titan classes.
Of course GW doing all thus has resulted in a huge golden egg of sales. However I think the ground work they've got in place now is how they plan to go forward once they are past this extreme sales peak period. Of course restoration of their market and customer interaction means tht future big releases will likely go down even better. So by not chasing the golden egg they actually have and gotten bigger ones!
Toofast wrote: It might sell very well, but I have been unable to find a game with anyone in all of South Florida. I can find a game of AoS, Kill Team, 30k, 40k, Necromunda, Blood Bowl, Warmahordes, Infinity, even BFG. I cannot find a single person that actually plays AT18. I asked the owner of my FLGS, they said one person ordered a couple kits but nobody else has bought AT boxes of any kind and they've never seen a game played there. My Warhammer store said several people were interested but nobody has pulled the trigger yet. I've posted in local Facebook groups from Ft Myers to Miami to Boca Raton and nobody plays it. I asked my friend at the Warhammer store in Alabama I used to frequent, nobody plays it there. Same story at both FLGS I went to there. I asked at the Warhammer store near my parents' house in Ohio, nobody plays it there. Same story at an FLGS in Columbus. It might sell well on a global scale but in the largest cities in 3 different states I can't find a single person that has bought AT, ever played a game, or ever even witnessed someone else playing a game.
Not to be snarky, but if you want to play and no one else in the area does, start a group yourself.
One GM box is enough for two people to dip their toes into the waters of AT18 - get the names of the interested people from those store managers - and once others see it on the table (it has excellent "Gee-Whiz" appeal), I'm sure you'll build a small community in no time.
Half a dozen players at my club, half a dozen more at a club nearby. Plans underway to run some joint events. Store support has been nil but who needs bricks and mortar anyway, it's 2018 dammit
Toofast wrote: It might sell very well, but I have been unable to find a game with anyone in all of South Florida. I can find a game of AoS, Kill Team, 30k, 40k, Necromunda, Blood Bowl, Warmahordes, Infinity, even BFG. I cannot find a single person that actually plays AT18. I asked the owner of my FLGS, they said one person ordered a couple kits but nobody else has bought AT boxes of any kind and they've never seen a game played there. My Warhammer store said several people were interested but nobody has pulled the trigger yet. I've posted in local Facebook groups from Ft Myers to Miami to Boca Raton and nobody plays it. I asked my friend at the Warhammer store in Alabama I used to frequent, nobody plays it there. Same story at both FLGS I went to there. I asked at the Warhammer store near my parents' house in Ohio, nobody plays it there. Same story at an FLGS in Columbus. It might sell well on a global scale but in the largest cities in 3 different states I can't find a single person that has bought AT, ever played a game, or ever even witnessed someone else playing a game.
Not to be snarky, but if you want to play and no one else in the area does, start a group yourself.
One GM box is enough for two people to dip their toes into the waters of AT18 - get the names of the interested people from those store managers - and once others see it on the table (it has excellent "Gee-Whiz" appeal), I'm sure you'll build a small community in no time.
If you are really interested in it and you have enough for 2 armies painted, offer to host a few games at your local (advertise on social media and in store and take bookings).
DO NOT buy extra units or anything to get people interested. Just offer what you have as a second army for a few test games (if people are not interested they aren't, if they are remotely they will come in for a test game). If they then like it they will buy themselves.
H.B.M.C. wrote: The Warlord is smaller than a Knight yet costs more.
The game is prohibitively expensive, and that was before they released 2 Lancer Knights for AUD$25 each.
Funny you complain about lancers seeing they make building force cheaper than say the other knights. Or warlord. About same with reaver and beaten only by warhounds
Toofast wrote: It might sell very well, but I have been unable to find a game with anyone in all of South Florida. I can find a game of AoS, Kill Team, 30k, 40k, Necromunda, Blood Bowl, Warmahordes, Infinity, even BFG. I cannot find a single person that actually plays AT18. I asked the owner of my FLGS, they said one person ordered a couple kits but nobody else has bought AT boxes of any kind and they've never seen a game played there. My Warhammer store said several people were interested but nobody has pulled the trigger yet. I've posted in local Facebook groups from Ft Myers to Miami to Boca Raton and nobody plays it. I asked my friend at the Warhammer store in Alabama I used to frequent, nobody plays it there. Same story at both FLGS I went to there. I asked at the Warhammer store near my parents' house in Ohio, nobody plays it there. Same story at an FLGS in Columbus. It might sell well on a global scale but in the largest cities in 3 different states I can't find a single person that has bought AT, ever played a game, or ever even witnessed someone else playing a game.
Not to be snarky, but if you want to play and no one else in the area does, start a group yourself.
One GM box is enough for two people to dip their toes into the waters of AT18 - get the names of the interested people from those store managers - and once others see it on the table (it has excellent "Gee-Whiz" appeal), I'm sure you'll build a small community in no time.
The only place that had anyone interested was over 1 hour from my house. I'm not going to spend $300, build/paint 2 armies, drive 1hr 15 mins each way, just to sit around hoping for someone to get interested. There are 3 FLGS within 30 minutes of my house with 20-25 people actively playing 40k, Kill Team, and AoS at each one. If even 3 people at any of those stores were interested enough to go half with me on an AT starter, then it would be worth it. However, I have yet to find anyone even remotely interested there.
Toofast wrote: It might sell very well, but I have been unable to find a game with anyone in all of South Florida. I can find a game of AoS, Kill Team, 30k, 40k, Necromunda, Blood Bowl, Warmahordes, Infinity, even BFG. I cannot find a single person that actually plays AT18. I asked the owner of my FLGS, they said one person ordered a couple kits but nobody else has bought AT boxes of any kind and they've never seen a game played there. My Warhammer store said several people were interested but nobody has pulled the trigger yet. I've posted in local Facebook groups from Ft Myers to Miami to Boca Raton and nobody plays it. I asked my friend at the Warhammer store in Alabama I used to frequent, nobody plays it there. Same story at both FLGS I went to there. I asked at the Warhammer store near my parents' house in Ohio, nobody plays it there. Same story at an FLGS in Columbus. It might sell well on a global scale but in the largest cities in 3 different states I can't find a single person that has bought AT, ever played a game, or ever even witnessed someone else playing a game.
Not to be snarky, but if you want to play and no one else in the area does, start a group yourself.
One GM box is enough for two people to dip their toes into the waters of AT18 - get the names of the interested people from those store managers - and once others see it on the table (it has excellent "Gee-Whiz" appeal), I'm sure you'll build a small community in no time.
If you are really interested in it and you have enough for 2 armies painted, offer to host a few games at your local (advertise on social media and in store and take bookings).
DO NOT buy extra units or anything to get people interested. Just offer what you have as a second army for a few test games (if people are not interested they aren't, if they are remotely they will come in for a test game). If they then like it they will buy themselves.
I have tried advertising on social media, I get a grand total of zero comments of anyone being interested.
Good lord, two threads chewing over Epic? I would never have guessed!
GW made the right choice of a deluxe boxed game and a stand-alone ruleset for the release of the game. But the GM edition gave an impression of a "way over priced starter set" while the stand alone box set raised alarm bells as to the bare minimum requirement of the game.
Its ironic that each product in the game is fair in price, but getting off the starting block is financially challenging compared to other games released by GW. You start adding up the products to get started and it easily goes over £100. The best guess as to the minium of this game was in the August edition of White Dwarf with the battle report - a Warlord Titan with a Reaver or three Knights for support.
We all know this is an expensive hobby and should expect quality to come with a price. However, the entry point into Titanicus is too far removed from its sister games. AT came out 30 years ago, and even with the "40K Titan owners club" supporting the game, GW needs a new generation of players for AT to grow.
My hope for the near future is that GW does release a boxed game for newcomers - that is within £100 - to coincide with the release of the Titandeath expansion( or whatever it is ). That would allow those who have remained on the sidelines an incentive to give the game a try and will encourage the growth of the game's user base.
tneva82 wrote: They just put in discount box. Not likely another comes within month or two
Only GW themselves would be able to shed light on that. For the time being, they have a one-click bundle that includes that boxset and now the "price of entry" is £160, saving £15 from the Grand Master edition.
Making an educated guess...that would be a logical choice for an updated Grand Master box set, with further discount made due to less packaging.
Toofast wrote: It might sell very well, but I have been unable to find a game with anyone in all of South Florida. I can find a game of AoS, Kill Team, 30k, 40k, Necromunda, Blood Bowl, Warmahordes, Infinity, even BFG. I cannot find a single person that actually plays AT18. I asked the owner of my FLGS, they said one person ordered a couple kits but nobody else has bought AT boxes of any kind and they've never seen a game played there. My Warhammer store said several people were interested but nobody has pulled the trigger yet. I've posted in local Facebook groups from Ft Myers to Miami to Boca Raton and nobody plays it. I asked my friend at the Warhammer store in Alabama I used to frequent, nobody plays it there. Same story at both FLGS I went to there. I asked at the Warhammer store near my parents' house in Ohio, nobody plays it there. Same story at an FLGS in Columbus. It might sell well on a global scale but in the largest cities in 3 different states I can't find a single person that has bought AT, ever played a game, or ever even witnessed someone else playing a game.
Not to be snarky, but if you want to play and no one else in the area does, start a group yourself.
One GM box is enough for two people to dip their toes into the waters of AT18 - get the names of the interested people from those store managers - and once others see it on the table (it has excellent "Gee-Whiz" appeal), I'm sure you'll build a small community in no time.
The only place that had anyone interested was over 1 hour from my house. I'm not going to spend $300, build/paint 2 armies, drive 1hr 15 mins each way, just to sit around hoping for someone to get interested. There are 3 FLGS within 30 minutes of my house with 20-25 people actively playing 40k, Kill Team, and AoS at each one. If even 3 people at any of those stores were interested enough to go half with me on an AT starter, then it would be worth it. However, I have yet to find anyone even remotely interested there.
OK, but 40K, Kill Team, and AoS are not AT. So, if you want to play AT and there is not presently a group for it, it's up to you to get it going.
Fact is, most people have exactly the mentality you're expressing here - they want "supported" games that require zero effort to get going, literally just walk into a store/club and point at someone to start playing. If you're not willing to put in more effort for a niche game, how can you expect any of them to? I'm not trying to be rude, but honestly you're not going to get much sympathy on this because a lot of us have been playing these Specialist Games for years in their older forms with zero model support, zero rules support, zero ability to play in GW stores, and have practically become qualified dentists with all the fething teeth we've had to pull to get folk playing them with us
Christ at one point I had to build enough Mordheim warbands to furnish an entire group with models just to overcome that initial resistance to trying anything that isn't the current Big Thing. If you like the game enough, you do what you have to.
I would keep in touch with the local stores and put yourself forward as a host for any AT games should others be interested. The game has been slow getting up to speed and the new year might be the opportunity you are looking for. Your local stores might not be familar with the game themselves and maybe on the fence about putting the time in to learning the rules.
If not, they might allow you to paint your Titans there and maybe they will show interest that way - "oh, whats that you're painting?". Then is the time to offer to set up a "Titan duel" just so they can understand the basics of the game.
OK, but 40K, Kill Team, and AoS are not AT. So, if you want to play AT and there is not presently a group for it, it's up to you to get it going.
Fact is, most people have exactly the mentality you're expressing here - they want "supported" games that require zero effort to get going, literally just walk into a store/club and point at someone to start playing. If you're not willing to put in more effort for a niche game, how can you expect any of them to? I'm not trying to be rude, but honestly you're not going to get much sympathy on this because a lot of us have been playing these Specialist Games for years in their older forms with zero model support, zero rules support, zero ability to play in GW stores, and have practically become qualified dentists with all the fething teeth we've had to pull to get folk playing them with us
Christ at one point I had to build enough Mordheim warbands to furnish an entire group with models just to overcome that initial resistance to trying anything that isn't the current Big Thing. If you like the game enough, you do what you have to.
Not really constructive advice. That's: "I once had to walk 10miles threw the snow to get a sandwich" talk (I have been playing GW games for 20-25 or so years and I think that of your post...).
The person has gone to/researched multiple areas to find a game, I am sure they are willing to put in the effort, just they don't know what to do? (It seems to me).
HOW to get closer to what Toofast wants is, or some actual advice:
I would keep in touch with the local stores and put yourself forward as a host for any AT games should others be interested. The game has been slow getting up to speed and the new year might be the opportunity you are looking for. Your local stores might not be familar with the game themselves and maybe on the fence about putting the time in to learning the rules.
If not, they might allow you to paint your Titans there and maybe they will show interest that way - "oh, whats that you're painting?". Then is the time to offer to set up a "Titan duel" just so they can understand the basics of the game.
Also:
Contact the Local GW store/FLGS and say you are interested in this game and have this army. Can they post it on their FB/social media page (give them photos).
Organise a small skirmish campaign at your local (have a few smaller knights).
Play 40k (other GW games etc) with your locals and talk up how cool you think AT is.
Bring in your army at some popular gaming store times to 'show it off'. If get talking to people offer them a quick game.
Other awesome suggestions, would probably help this person and others, for starting an AT gaming group.
Automatically Appended Next Post: To be totally transparent.
I think this is the way to get people into a new game (I used a similar strategy to get a few extra into my Necromunda group, my favourite Specialist game).
With AT. It is a hard sell.
It's kinda expensive for initial money cost. I personally am not buying into this game until they produce weapons sprues that are sold separately. Even then, I would want some other race's titans or something else to bring more depth to the game (not in game play but in versatility).
Stormwall wrote: My GW refuses to stock/support it, and they're one of the 3 big stores. The reasoning is "if we don't sell it, we don't generally play it."
That being said, the local big FLGS has a large scene for this game.
I wait what?
You local GW store run and managed by GW has the attitude of selling that if they don't stock a game you won't play a game - well yeah that makes sense but I fail to see how its helping the store. Surely they WANT you playing and buying the game from them not from the local 3rd party.
It sounds kinda odd and honestly if I had a local GW store manager who refused to stock a game so that local people "wouldn't play it" I'd be sending GW head office a formal letter (ok email) about it.
Stormwall wrote: My GW refuses to stock/support it, and they're one of the 3 big stores. The reasoning is "if we don't sell it, we don't generally play it."
That being said, the local big FLGS has a large scene for this game.
I don’t think any GW stocks it other than returns. That said if people try to play in that store and he doesn’t allow it he will be get re-educated should someone complain to customer service. Store managers are responsible for growing sales but that’s some real crap if he’s not allowing it to be played.
"You can order it but, we refuse to stock if if we're not supporting it on our game nights." "We can always order it for you!" Etc x 1000.
In every other regard I think my local GW is perfect. They even stopped that Kirby era crowding of people when they came in the door to get them to buy gak they don't want, that was there in 2014.
Anyways, they don't stock it, because the main games at the GW Store are Killteam (game nights on Fridays,) and of course 40k throughout the week. The excuse is, they've got a large computer order system kiosk you can use to order anything, including specialist games. Concerning playing it, I get mixed answers that I can come in and play it but, only on open game days and only if the table is open and no 40kers want to play at said table, and I've also gotten answers of "we don't support it so don't play it here."
It kinda rubs me raw since it's not a FW game but, a GW game. I go and play it with my buds at their houses or the local huge hobby store north of Stockholm. Also I have no clue who the manager is, they seem to have it set up in "Swedish Consensus," style. IE: They all meet and set policy together as employees, though there does seem to be a minor picking order to how they run. Obviously they have a manager but, I know every employee in the store and I have no clue which one it is to be quite frank.
Other than that, they're the nicest people ever and I love the store tbh. I'm worried since other private retailers are dropping the game that GW proper is trying to trash can this like the did with Epic 40k back in the day.
Like I said no GW store stocks AT due to shelf space but not allowing anyone to play unless the place is deserted is total crap.
If your group that plays at another store offered to play there to show off the game and he tries to push back that’s worth a call to customer service. That would NEVER happen at my GW here.
OK, but 40K, Kill Team, and AoS are not AT. So, if you want to play AT and there is not presently a group for it, it's up to you to get it going.
Fact is, most people have exactly the mentality you're expressing here - they want "supported" games that require zero effort to get going, literally just walk into a store/club and point at someone to start playing. If you're not willing to put in more effort for a niche game, how can you expect any of them to? I'm not trying to be rude, but honestly you're not going to get much sympathy on this because a lot of us have been playing these Specialist Games for years in their older forms with zero model support, zero rules support, zero ability to play in GW stores, and have practically become qualified dentists with all the fething teeth we've had to pull to get folk playing them with us
Christ at one point I had to build enough Mordheim warbands to furnish an entire group with models just to overcome that initial resistance to trying anything that isn't the current Big Thing. If you like the game enough, you do what you have to.
Not really constructive advice. That's: "I once had to walk 10miles threw the snow to get a sandwich" talk (I have been playing GW games for 20-25 or so years and I think that of your post...).
The person has gone to/researched multiple areas to find a game, I am sure they are willing to put in the effort, just they don't know what to do? (It seems to me).
HOW to get closer to what Toofast wants is, or some actual advice:
They already discounted the advice I would have given out of hand in their previous post - if you want to get a game off the ground badly enough, you put together enough models to run both sides and you go out and get folk to play it with you. You do everything you can think of to make the barrier of entry so low that people realise they're beginning to look obstinate and petulant if they refuse to give it a try, and then you hope some of them get hooked enough to buy-in themselves. If you can't find a local group, and you're not willing to do the extra work required to get a new group off the ground, what can anyone suggest?
It's not about "when I were a lad...", it's just how things are - if a game isn't already popular and you want to play it, you have to do the work to make it take off locally. People who've been playing SGs for a long time know it. People who play non-GW fantasy and sci-fi games know it. If people aren't willing to listen when we relay that experience, eh.
Stormwall wrote: Eh, it could be a simple miscommunication. I'll see what's up with that in due time.
I can understand them not stocking it and allowing you to order, that's fine. But stopping you from playing and not letting the game establish itself in their store sounds all kinds of wrong. GW are clearly enthusiastic and supporting the game otherwise they'd not be releasing new stuff for it. Plus they pretty much sold out of all the commander sets on launch day - the expensive super high price starter that was a big sticker shock on cost sold out.
So I think AT is here to stay for a decent while. I think your store needs to get a reminder that its not just 40K and AoS in the world and that specialist games are games too. Esp as they are a GW store and should be promoting ALL the games that GW produces, not cherry picking favourites.
I wonder if its because any game ordered through the ordering computer doesn't generate sales data for the store and their sales are only recorded by stock actually stocked and sold on site - that would at least give them a reason not to encourage a game that they cannot physically stock. but its short sighted because I'm sure if the game took off locally they'd be allowed to hold stock for it locally. Plus if people like you are leaving to go to another competing store then, whilst GW central still gets its profits, the local GW isn't getting the profit it could be making by turning customers like you away (even though you can order it through them they are not encouraging you to play at all)
Stormwall wrote: My GW refuses to stock/support it, and they're one of the 3 big stores. The reasoning is "if we don't sell it, we don't generally play it."
That being said, the local big FLGS has a large scene for this game.
If GW aren't supporting their own game...how can they expect you to?
Surely there are some GW stores stocking and playing AT?
Fajita Fan wrote: Like I said no GW store stocks AT due to shelf space but not allowing anyone to play unless the place is deserted is total crap.
If your group that plays at another store offered to play there to show off the game and he tries to push back that’s worth a call to customer service. That would NEVER happen at my GW here.
It blows my mind that they would release a new specialist game and then not stock it in stores. How do they expect anyone to start playing the game if they don't stock or support it at their own stores?
I continue to see Adeptus Titanicus maligned online as a "niche within a niche" with startups costs that are too high for anyone to be expected to play it.
This forum might be like preaching to the choir, but I feel like the game just didn't get a proper starter set. When we were eagerly awaiting the game this summer, we heard it would be an expensive starter, and I think a lot of us thought "Okay, like $160... maybe $200?" and put money aside. Then, Grand Master shows up in limited supply for $300, and we all got catastrophic sticker shock. Shock so hard, a lot of folks are still posting around the internet in November about how it's an elitist game that no one can afford.
In reality, the prices are completely in line with GW's models; A knight is $140, the slightly smaller Warlord Titan is $110. A Redemptor dreadnought is $65, a comparably sized Reaver is $60. A dreadnought is $46, while a pair of simularly sized Warhounds are $65, making them quite a bargain.
I really think the lack of a true starter set, and the brutally priced "Grand Master Edition" being perceived as the starter, is what got things off on the wrong foot. Imagine if Dark Imperium came with the full kits instead of mono-pose starter models, and cost $510. (My very rough estimate of the cost of all of the content in their full kit form, assuming unique single character models are $35 on average. Think of the savings, you get the whole rule set for free!)
Oggthrok wrote: I continue to see Adeptus Titanicus maligned online as a "niche within a niche" with startups costs that are too high for anyone to be expected to play it.
This forum might be like preaching to the choir, but I feel like the game just didn't get a proper starter set. When we were eagerly awaiting the game this summer, we heard it would be an expensive starter, and I think a lot of us thought "Okay, like $160... maybe $200?" and put money aside. Then, Grand Master shows up in limited supply for $300, and we all got catastrophic sticker shock. Shock so hard, a lot of folks are still posting around the internet in November about how it's an elitist game that no one can afford.
In reality, the prices are completely in line with GW's models; A knight is $140, the slightly smaller Warlord Titan is $110. A Redemptor dreadnought is $65, a comparably sized Reaver is $60. A dreadnought is $46, while a pair of simularly sized Warhounds are $65, making them quite a bargain.
I really think the lack of a true starter set, and the brutally priced "Grand Master Edition" being perceived as the starter, is what got things off on the wrong foot. Imagine if Dark Imperium came with the full kits instead of mono-pose starter models, and cost $510. (My very rough estimate of the cost of all of the content in their full kit form, assuming unique single character models are $35 on average. Think of the savings, you get the whole rule set for free!)
I, of course, agree with you.
What might also have been discouraging is the Warlord Titan being seen as the primary unit of a force, much like a squad of Space Marines in 40K. Its good for what it is( the most we can expect to pay for a Titan, and its awesome! ), but when the community is throwing around "1-3 Warlords" for their initial battle force...many on the sidelines have thrown their hands up and said "sod this for a game of soldiers!" when just a single Warlord is £65.
We certainly were not expecting GW to roll out a "First Strike" or even a "Know no fear", but they could have at least done something on the price scale of Dark Imperium. Even if it was just the Ruleset and two Reavers with a 20% discount...a lot more people would have jumped on board the AT train...
Fajita Fan wrote: Like I said no GW store stocks AT due to shelf space but not allowing anyone to play unless the place is deserted is total crap.
If your group that plays at another store offered to play there to show off the game and he tries to push back that’s worth a call to customer service. That would NEVER happen at my GW here.
It blows my mind that they would release a new specialist game and then not stock it in stores. How do they expect anyone to start playing the game if they don't stock or support it at their own stores?
I talked to my GW manager today. The stores are not meant to stock AT as their shelf space is meant to primarily be taken up by AoS and 40k. Any manager who does not promote playing ANY GW product that’s sold in stores or through the web should be questioned. He’s promoting the 40k Monopoly that was just sold, over the years we’ve played Space Hulk, Dreadfleet, Gorkamorka, BFG, Bloodbowl, and Kill Team long before KT was a “thing” in our local GW with full support from the staff. The idea of keeping smaller games off the tables is nonesense.
It mainly suffers from being in the dry, stick-up-their-own-behind, trying-to-make-40K-"serioussss", "no-bright-colours-allowed" Heresy train wreck of a setting.
Bring back some classic 40K fun and over-the-top quirkiness in the models and background, and it'll sell like hot cakes.
Sunny Side Up wrote: It mainly suffers from being in the dry, stick-up-their-own-behind, trying-to-make-40K-"serioussss", "no-bright-colours-allowed" Heresy train wreck of a setting.
Bring back some classic 40K fun and over-the-top quirkiness in the models and background, and it'll sell like hot cakes.
Or, you can enjoy all that design studio midlife crisis stuff in mainline 40K since that seems firmly where they're off to lately, and let the rest of us enjoy the part of the setting that's a bit more interesting than "hurr hurr I made a funneh" joke names and the like.
Fajita Fan wrote: Like I said no GW store stocks AT due to shelf space but not allowing anyone to play unless the place is deserted is total crap.
If your group that plays at another store offered to play there to show off the game and he tries to push back that’s worth a call to customer service. That would NEVER happen at my GW here.
It blows my mind that they would release a new specialist game and then not stock it in stores. How do they expect anyone to start playing the game if they don't stock or support it at their own stores?
I talked to my GW manager today. The stores are not meant to stock AT as their shelf space is meant to primarily be taken up by AoS and 40k. Any manager who does not promote playing ANY GW product that’s sold in stores or through the web should be questioned. He’s promoting the 40k Monopoly that was just sold, over the years we’ve played Space Hulk, Dreadfleet, Gorkamorka, BFG, Bloodbowl, and Kill Team long before KT was a “thing” in our local GW with full support from the staff. The idea of keeping smaller games off the tables is nonesense.
My GW manager doesn't discourage playing it, but nobody is going to play it because nobody else plays it and the models aren't on the shelf. If GW ran an event like the recent kill team campaign for AT18 and stocked 1 or 2 boxes each of Warlord, Warhound, Reaver titans, and knights then it would probably take off. They don't need to devote a whole section of the store to it, but at least show that it's a thing that exists and run an event for it.
Yay! (I'll take any time this happens on the internet that I can get )
SamusDrake wrote: What might also have been discouraging is the Warlord Titan being seen as the primary unit of a force, much like a squad of Space Marines in 40K. Its good for what it is( the most we can expect to pay for a Titan, and its awesome! ), but when the community is throwing around "1-3 Warlords" for their initial battle force...many on the sidelines have thrown their hands up and said "sod this for a game of soldiers!" when just a single Warlord is £65.
Absolutely, and GW to their credit has done really amazing things to try to make up for this. Take the release of the Titan Battlegroup this month; to my thinking, that box is an entire army for this game, at about 30% off MSRP for its parts, before the inevitable online or FLGS discounting a lot of us depend on to afford our hobby. I feel like around $150 for the majority of an army is pretty good.
Do you think they could have avoided the initial shock, if they'd rolled out with the Reaver as the initial titan? It's a less impressive kit, but at less than half the cost I think it would have been an easier pill for most folks to swollow.
SamusDrake wrote: We certainly were not expecting GW to roll out a "First Strike" or even a "Know no fear", but they could have at least done something on the price scale of Dark Imperium. Even if it was just the Ruleset and two Reavers with a 20% discount...a lot more people would have jumped on board the AT train...
Absolutely agreed. Part of me thinks that spending the extra money to make an "Easy" warlord kit that could sell for $45 like they did with the Redemptor would make the game a lot more approachable. Then again, my understanding is that this was going to be one of those forgettable boutique resin games like "Aeronautica Imperialis," and that we're very lucky to get plastic kits at all.
That will be the real test moving forward... getting the game through this Forgeworld tiny-game-for-only-a-few-people to something they would want to invest in to make a full blown epic. (Or failing that, at least make me a couple plastic gargant kits so I can die happy )
Fajita Fan wrote: An Easy-To-Build Reaver would a bloody godsend to anyone who’s worked on the actual kit!
Come on mate, it’s only a half dozen pieces. Per foot. Then just an armor plate, and then the other armor plate. Oh, and the armor plate that goes over the two prior armor plates. Then the knee armor plate. Easy, quick, now just do it again, and you can start debating how to get those arm cables to match up, and if you want to reverse engineer bloody magnet points, or move on to realizing you put the inner leg plates on backwards...
I just realize I voted no because I thought the poll said "Is AT a bust."
Reee.
Anyways, to get back on to topic, I really wish there was an easy build Reaver or that new titan that's between a Warlord and a Reaver was in AT so I could skip Reavers altogether.
Fajita Fan wrote: An Easy-To-Build Reaver would a bloody godsend to anyone who’s worked on the actual kit!
Come on mate, it’s only a half dozen pieces. Per foot. Then just an armor plate, and then the other armor plate. Oh, and the armor plate that goes over the two prior armor plates. Then the knee armor plate. Easy, quick, now just do it again, and you can start debating how to get those arm cables to match up, and if you want to reverse engineer bloody magnet points, or move on to realizing you put the inner leg plates on backwards...
3 more unopened in my car that I'm going to exchange for the new weapons sprues. I'm off today so I might some gold layered down on my Warlord and I'm off next week before Christmas to hopefully make progress.
I really think the lack of a true starter set, and the brutally priced "Grand Master Edition" being perceived as the starter, is what got things off on the wrong foot. Imagine if Dark Imperium came with the full kits instead of mono-pose starter models, and cost $510. (My very rough estimate of the cost of all of the content in their full kit form, assuming unique single character models are $35 on average. Think of the savings, you get the whole rule set for free!)
IMO, they really ought to release a starter that's a Reaver, two Warhounds, and the rules. That would be a lot less expensive than the Grand Master Edition (checking in at $185 at current MSRP for the components), and quite literally gives you everything that you need to play a legal maniple (that's the core of a Venator light maniple). Then you could either buy another Warhound box to fill out the maniple, or add a Warlord and Reaver to move on up the chain. And, of course, add knights as desired. The problem with a starter that focuses on the Warlord is that not only does it make the box quite a bit more expensive (since a warlord is nearly double the price of a reaver), but it also only helps you build two out of the three currently legal maniples. For that reason alone, any starter set really needs to contain the Reaver.
Looking back on the launch, I see expectations for the game being over £100 and the most expensive yet...at around £120 - £140. Even for GW standards, £175 was ill-advised. On the other hand, they did leave the option of buying the rule set on its own at a more sensible £35...but with only the Warlord and Knights to chose from there seemed little point to it.
Yes, the reaver would have been the natural choice for the initial titan, but to be honest I think it could have been released alongside the Warlord and Knights, and thus allowing for a second boxed game to meet that £130 sweet spot.
My only impression of AT is by online reviews and youtube playthroughs. Making an educated guess, a proper starter set would either be two Reavers having a duel( ala Imperial Knight Renegade ) or a set with 2 Warhounds and 6 Knights to provide each player with at least a titan with three support units. I'm personally going the later path with just the ruleset left to purchase and DIY my own buildings.
While the Battle group is definitely a bargin( a very welcome move by GW ), its not actually pushing the game itself into the hands of players. This game still needs its "dark imperium"...
I bet after about four, I'd get good enough to not glue the inner leg plates on backwards... (Or, I may be mis-remembering, it may be the Warlord I did backwards... both are complicated kits, but the Reaver seemed much harder for some reason...)
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Eumerin wrote: The problem with a starter that focuses on the Warlord is that not only does it make the box quite a bit more expensive (since a warlord is nearly double the price of a reaver), but it also only helps you build two out of the three currently legal maniples. For that reason alone, any starter set really needs to contain the Reaver.
Agreed on all points.
Plus, there's the problem of building up to something. They started big, and worked to small, so a lot of folks see the Warlord and are like "Okay, when do I get an Imperator?" If we started with hounds and Reavers, it would make the Warlord feel like the biggest most massivest thing ever.
All water under the command deck now though - so long as the game exists, I'll just be grateful we got plastic multi-part knights and titans for the entire Imperial range, with the hope of new designs in the future.
SamusDrake wrote: Looking back on the launch, I see expectations for the game being over £100 and the most expensive yet...at around £120 - £140. Even for GW standards, £175 was ill-advised.
It certainly shifted a lot of eager buyers into jilted wait-and-see types. Myself included; I had fully planned to go all in with the Grandmaster, but to go from that darned cheap Killteam box with like 40lbs of terrain and minis and rules, to a $300 box that was the *start* of something... I couldn't do it.
SamusDrake wrote: On the other hand, they did leave the option of buying the rule set on its own at a more sensible £35...but with only the Warlord and Knights to chose from there seemed little point to it.
This was what saved me actually; after deciding the game wasn't for me on any level at the full price, I ran into a very nice fellow on this very forum's trade board who had over bought into the game. I bought his Warlord, rulebook, and some terrain, and that was enough for me to get my hooks into the game, and build slowly over time.
While the Battle group is definitely a bargin( a very welcome move by GW ), its not actually pushing the game itself into the hands of players. This game still needs its "dark imperium"...
Absolutely, with an easy build Warlord, and Ork Great Gargant. Let me pitch it: high above the infantry and tank skirmishes, Ork and Imperial Titans battle it out on the blasted wastes of Armageddon, only to find themselves facing a new foe - the advancing forces of the Black Crusade. That way, we can introduce both xenos, and demonic warped titans at the same time.
went to my local GW shop about 3 months ago as i needed a box of nights.
"we dont stock specialist games you have to order from the webshop and come back in a week" was the reply.....
what the feth, this aint 2005 where there was 5+ specialist games whit huge amount of model selection, this is 2018.
it dont take THAT mutch space to keep 3 boxes of each model on the wall.......
ofc your not going to gain popularity for a game that their own stores wont even sell models for...
that combined whit no low priced starter army makes shure that AT will remain the unknown oddball whitin GW.
It's weird that GW still isn't stocking its own games. Oh well. I haven't been in a GW in ages as luckily I work quite near to Dark Sphere.
I agree wtih most others that the GME was the problem. One of the worst things about it for me is that two warlords aren't even a legal maniple. Added to that, it would have been far better if one of them had the alternate weapon sprue, for a bit of variety.
Presumably now anyone who does play AT has kind of a non-varied game, featuring a load of volcano cannon shots back and forth. The actual experience of playing the game would have been far more interesting with a close in bruiser vs a ranged guy, or indeed with a warlord and some knights vs a reiver and a pair of warhounds (if they still wanted to go for a mega box).
It may well be that Titandeath is the shot in the arm that the game needs. Adding a few more maniples and legions would be a great improvement to the game.
I managed to pick up a GME this week for a bit under RRP. It's a nice set but to be honest I'm slightly regretting not just getting the set of 5 titans and a rulebook. I think I'll wait for Titandeath before buying anything else, with the possible exception of a plasma warlord. To me personally they seem like much better models than the reivers and warhounds, probably because they were designed years later.
Presumably now anyone who does play AT has kind of a non-varied game, featuring a load of volcano cannon shots back and forth. The actual experience of playing the game would have been far more interesting with a close in bruiser vs a ranged guy, or indeed with a warlord and some knights vs a reiver and a pair of warhounds (if they still wanted to go for a mega box).
...whut? I've played a whole lot and never had a problem just going "this Warlord has plasma and macro-gatling" while waiting for the extra weapons to come out. I mean, whu? The Reaver and the Warhounds came out a month or two after the big box, which is less time than most people take to even get their first engines painted. It is purely one's own personal problem if they are for some reason stuck using double Belicosas instead of trying things out. Can't see why that would be hard for anyone FOR THE FIRST FEW MONTHS of the game's life, after which there is already plenty of variation out even for wysiwyg fanatics.
Presumably now anyone who does play AT has kind of a non-varied game, featuring a load of volcano cannon shots back and forth. The actual experience of playing the game would have been far more interesting with a close in bruiser vs a ranged guy, or indeed with a warlord and some knights vs a reiver and a pair of warhounds (if they still wanted to go for a mega box).
...whut? I've played a whole lot and never had a problem just going "this Warlord has plasma and macro-gatling" while waiting for the extra weapons to come out. I mean, whu? The Reaver and the Warhounds came out a month or two after the big box, which is less time than most people take to even get their first engines painted. It is purely one's own personal problem if they are for some reason stuck using double Belicosas instead of trying things out. Can't see why that would be hard for anyone FOR THE FIRST FEW MONTHS of the game's life, after which there is already plenty of variation out even for wysiwyg fanatics.
Fair enough. I take your point on proxying, converting etc.
I do think it'd have been a better set with more variety in it - or just less stuff in it generally so that it cost less. It's less good value because you need to buy extra weapon sets. But it does give you enough minis to play the game. I maintain that it's pretty weird to give you two head options that are basically identical!
On the plus side, I do like the look of the rules. It seems like the various different weapon options all have their uses and the costings look about right.
Presumably now anyone who does play AT has kind of a non-varied game, featuring a load of volcano cannon shots back and forth. The actual experience of playing the game would have been far more interesting with a close in bruiser vs a ranged guy, or indeed with a warlord and some knights vs a reiver and a pair of warhounds (if they still wanted to go for a mega box).
Hmm dunno. I have good time blastering enemy titans with paired gatling blasters, then peppering some more with macro gatling blasters before finishing of with sunfury. Or combining quake cannon and volcano cannon for long range fire.
Presumably now anyone who does play AT has kind of a non-varied game, featuring a load of volcano cannon shots back and forth. The actual experience of playing the game would have been far more interesting with a close in bruiser vs a ranged guy, or indeed with a warlord and some knights vs a reiver and a pair of warhounds (if they still wanted to go for a mega box).
Hmm dunno. I have good time blastering enemy titans with paired gatling blasters, then peppering some more with macro gatling blasters before finishing of with sunfury. Or combining quake cannon and volcano cannon for long range fire.
I reckon that I'll probably run a warlord with volcano and quake cannons, with missiles on the roof. Just not sure if I want to risk chopping up one of the volcano cannons to make the quake!
I've got a couple of spare gatling-type things spare from repulsor kits. I might see what can be done with those.
All my games have been WYSIWYG, but there's enough variety with two Reavers to make things interesting. Even with the same weapons each time, different missions make the tactical choices different.
Presumably now anyone who does play AT has kind of a non-varied game, featuring a load of volcano cannon shots back and forth. The actual experience of playing the game would have been far more interesting with a close in bruiser vs a ranged guy, or indeed with a warlord and some knights vs a reiver and a pair of warhounds (if they still wanted to go for a mega box).
Hmm dunno. I have good time blastering enemy titans with paired gatling blasters, then peppering some more with macro gatling blasters before finishing of with sunfury. Or combining quake cannon and volcano cannon for long range fire.
I reckon that I'll probably run a warlord with volcano and quake cannons, with missiles on the roof. Just not sure if I want to risk chopping up one of the volcano cannons to make the quake!
I've got a couple of spare gatling-type things spare from repulsor kits. I might see what can be done with those.
Just wait for the official kits. Sometimes you want volcano and quake, other times 2 volcano. Maybe even 2 quake cannons though that might be bit less common(big thing about quake cannons is knocking titan off from fire arc before it gets to shoot. One can do that. 2nd could even negate the first one...Though 2nd gives better chance of doing it rather than flipping backwards)
Presumably now anyone who does play AT has kind of a non-varied game, featuring a load of volcano cannon shots back and forth. The actual experience of playing the game would have been far more interesting with a close in bruiser vs a ranged guy, or indeed with a warlord and some knights vs a reiver and a pair of warhounds (if they still wanted to go for a mega box).
Hmm dunno. I have good time blastering enemy titans with paired gatling blasters, then peppering some more with macro gatling blasters before finishing of with sunfury. Or combining quake cannon and volcano cannon for long range fire.
I reckon that I'll probably run a warlord with volcano and quake cannons, with missiles on the roof. Just not sure if I want to risk chopping up one of the volcano cannons to make the quake!
I've got a couple of spare gatling-type things spare from repulsor kits. I might see what can be done with those.
Just wait for the official kits. Sometimes you want volcano and quake, other times 2 volcano. Maybe even 2 quake cannons though that might be bit less common(big thing about quake cannons is knocking titan off from fire arc before it gets to shoot. One can do that. 2nd could even negate the first one...Though 2nd gives better chance of doing it rather than flipping backwards)
Yeah waiting is probably the best approach. I’ll defini want the option of at least two volcano cannons, but perhaps not four. I’m a bit nervous that it might take longer for the official versions of guns that don’t yet exist in 40k.
To be fair, the releases have come pretty fast. It’s a better situation than the launch of bloodbowl. We have all the rules and models that we need, and it’s in the nature of these things that GW will want us to keep buying stuff.
The game is not a bust where I live(Grand Master sets all sold), but it requires a kick in the arse to get moving.
I also think it is a bit hampered by the fact that it is aiming for loyalists to the franchise who are already knee-deep(or chin) in plastic crack for the main series. Hell, I bought myself the Grand Master box on release and I still haven't managed to get around gluing it together because the core 40k releases have been coming fast along with 2.0 of AoS. Add Kill Team on top of that and you got a stew going.
I agree with some of the posters a good starter set would do wonders. Those things could entice new players to the franchise and branch the game out to a wider audience.
Picking up the new Titan Battlegroup bundle with a rules box makes for a pretty good starter set. Most discounters will do that for around £100 and you get a better mix of models than in the GME box.
Around here, i've been having problems finding opponents.
I've played 10 games so far, ran 4 demos to show people how to play, and show them how fun the game is. Everyone seems to like it, but I have yet to get new players to jump in.
Most games I play are against the local store owner. He loves the game, claims it's currently his favorite GW game.
Why doenst he try to push it more? The battlebox isn't available to him. It wasnt on his order form, he asked 3 times so far why he couldnt order it, and he hasnt received any anwser. I have to lend him my reaver so he can make a legal list. He already has 2 warlords, 2 warhounds, 3 knights, but wants the battlebox to expand his army. It's a good deal, so I understand why he wants to wait.
I'm still waiting for my cerastus knight command terminals, they are somewhere in transit apparently. Shipping here in Canada sucks right now, the postal service going on strikes on and off again for the past 2 months.
I'm not discouraged yet, i'm sure people will play in time, I just have to be patient. More units have been coming out at a nice pace. Evey month since it's release the game has been supported. The new supplement will be out soon, and I'll use it to promot the gamee even more, but until then, I'm finding it really hard to find players.
I've painted more in the last 3 months than I have in the past 10 years, the models are great, the rules are great, I'm having a lot of fun playing the game. I don't think I've ever had a full paint army in any system before, but I do now!
It's not a bust, but like necromunda and bloodbowl before it, the slow release is really making people wait before investing in these games, but bloodbowl and necromunda have really picked up in the last few months, I expect titanicus to do the same soon enough.
I live in Suffolk(UK), and I'm always coming back to the thought of setting up a Titanicus group here. There are GW stores in the local towns; Bury, Ipswich and Cambridge, but I haven't visited one of them in a while to see if they are selling AT yet.
Perhaps an independent group could have a 2-10mm scale focus, with AT being played alongside games of Dropzone Commander, old Epic or Horizon Wars - or whatever games are popular in that scale.
These games are also quite similar to classic wargames based on Waterloo and the world wars, so there might be a shared interest?
Spectral Ceramite wrote: If thread about a bust is still going...it is a bust...If it is producing a good game? Their would have been a thread made about it, being good?
Spectral Ceramite wrote: If thread about a bust is still going...it is a bust...If it is producing a good game? Their would have been a thread made about it, being good?
lol. Can't come up with more ridiculous theory?
The most active threads on AT18 and 30k forums are whether the games are dead or not, with the people defending it saying "well it's played in my area" and everyone else saying "well I haven't been able to get a game at all". If you have to live in certain towns in England or Poland to get a game, but can't find a game in any city in 3/4 of the states in the US, or most of the rest of the world even where 40k and AoS are played daily, there's a problem. My parents live in Ohio, I regularly travel to Alabama for both work and football games, and I live in South Florida. If I can't find a game of something in Cleveland, Columbus, Cincinnati, Birmingham, Montgomery, Mobile, Orlando, Tampa, or Miami, there's a problem with the popularity of that game. I can find a game of 40k, AoS, Kill Team, Xwing or Warmahordes in any of those places. I cannot find a single person playing AT18 (or 30k) in those areas. I have tried the local gaming forum here, reddit, Facebook groups, calling the owners of FLGS, and calling the managers of GW/Warhammer stores. Maybe if the stores stocked anything for these games, rulebooks, models, etc, or GW ran an event for these games like their recent Kill Team campaign, that would change. However, their current marketing strategy seems to be releasing specialist games and hoping they sell on nostalgia alone. I'm not sure about the UK or the rest of Europe, but outside of small communities in the most populated areas here in the states, it isn't working.
The fact that these threads not only exist, but are more popular than any other thread in their respective forum, is fairly strong evidence that something about the marketing strategy for these games isn't working. It's far from the only evidence, but it is evidence. Hand waving it away because you don't like the conclusions drawn from it doesn't make it any less valid.
The fact that these threads not only exist, but are more popular than any other thread in their respective forum, is fairly strong evidence that something about the marketing strategy for these games isn't working. It's far from the only evidence, but it is evidence. Hand waving it away because you don't like the conclusions drawn from it doesn't make it any less valid.
From what I've seen, the problem isn't the marketing. It's the supply. My local game store can't get the product. When a new item is released, a few of them arrive and then fly off the shelves. And they're never seen again.
The most active threads on AT18 and 30k forums are whether the games are dead or not, with the people defending it saying "well it's played in my area" and everyone else saying "well I haven't been able to get a game at all". If you have to live in certain towns in England or Poland to get a game, but can't find a game in any city in 3/4 of the states in the US, or most of the rest of the world even where 40k and AoS are played daily, there's a problem. My parents live in Ohio, I regularly travel to Alabama for both work and football games, and I live in South Florida. If I can't find a game of something in Cleveland, Columbus, Cincinnati, Birmingham, Montgomery, Mobile, Orlando, Tampa, or Miami, there's a problem with the popularity of that game. I can find a game of 40k, AoS, Kill Team, Xwing or Warmahordes in any of those places. I cannot find a single person playing AT18 (or 30k) in those areas. I have tried the local gaming forum here, reddit, Facebook groups, calling the owners of FLGS, and calling the managers of GW/Warhammer stores. Maybe if the stores stocked anything for these games, rulebooks, models, etc, or GW ran an event for these games like their recent Kill Team campaign, that would change. However, their current marketing strategy seems to be releasing specialist games and hoping they sell on nostalgia alone. I'm not sure about the UK or the rest of Europe, but outside of small communities in the most populated areas here in the states, it isn't working.
The fact that these threads not only exist, but are more popular than any other thread in their respective forum, is fairly strong evidence that something about the marketing strategy for these games isn't working. It's far from the only evidence, but it is evidence. Hand waving it away because you don't like the conclusions drawn from it doesn't make it any less valid.
It might be that they are getting the range of products up to speed this side of christmas and then in the new year perhaps use Titandeath to promote a more international audience with that background story - especially as its the big titan battle of the HH era.
The Black Library book has just been released and the AT expansion is probably going to drop in either January or Febuary...maybe thats when GW will push the game.
The fact that these threads not only exist, but are more popular than any other thread in their respective forum, is fairly strong evidence that something about the marketing strategy for these games isn't working. It's far from the only evidence, but it is evidence. Hand waving it away because you don't like the conclusions drawn from it doesn't make it any less valid.
From what I've seen, the problem isn't the marketing. It's the supply. My local game store can't get the product. When a new item is released, a few of them arrive and then fly off the shelves. And they're never seen again.
I spoke to the owner of my FLGS tonight about the topic. I was told that typically their distributor sends them at least 1 box of each new product. When AT came out, the distributor told them not to order any and to make it a special order only line because they had such low demand from all of their customers. So basically GW announced it, nobody called their FLGS to order it, so no FLGS ordered it from their distributor. This store I frequent has the new delaque on the shelf as well as several other gangs, some blood bowl teams, WMH, Infinity, Xwing, SW legions, the new Fallout miniatures game, etc. AT18 is literally the only GW product or even the only decently popular wargame they don't stock at all on the shelf. The owner talked to the regulars that play in all the 40k events and there was just no interest in ordering the stuff or playing the game. Cost of the starter set and scale being completely incompatible to use the minis for anything else (lots of people buy necro minis to proxy as 40k units, or for D&D) prevented anyone from being even remotely interested in starting the game.
If it had been properly marketed, supply wouldn't be an issue. If several people at each FLGS were special ordering this stuff and then showing up to play games after they received and built it, the stores would be ordering it and stocking it on the shelf. Instead, it was poorly marketed, the starter set was uninspiring and overpriced, and as a result nobody ordered it, nobody plays it, so the stores aren't stocking it. My FLGS could put 3 boxes of each AT product on the shelf tomorrow and it would just sit there unless I bought it to play with my gf on our table at home. Supply is driven by demand, especially in this industry. If there's demand for a certain game and the store has to special order the same thing multiple times, they will just add it to their weekly order sheet. As long as the demand isn't there, the supply won't be, either.
GW could help the demand by having their own stores stock it where it doesn't cost them anything to do so. If my FLGS stocks a product and it doesn't sell, they're out the money for that product. If a Warhammer store stocks a product and it doesn't sell, it can be transferred to a different store or back to the warehouse in Tennessee and shipped out to an online customer. GW could also run a campaign event like they did for Kill Team. The demand for Kill Team shot through the roof at my FLGS once the campaign was announced. 15 people signed up and nearly all of them bought stuff at the store for a new team. Why not do a campaign like that with medals, acrylic tokens, maybe some special terminals, for AT? Do a 1k point escalation league going up to 2k to make the buy in cheap but get people to spend more down the road if they like it. That is how you get people playing your new game. Not announcing it and then pretending it doesn't exist by not encouraging FLGS to stock it, not allowing your own stores to stock it, and not running any events for it.
The fact that these threads not only exist, but are more popular than any other thread in their respective forum, is fairly strong evidence that something about the marketing strategy for these games isn't working. It's far from the only evidence, but it is evidence. Hand waving it away because you don't like the conclusions drawn from it doesn't make it any less valid.
From what I've seen, the problem isn't the marketing. It's the supply. My local game store can't get the product. When a new item is released, a few of them arrive and then fly off the shelves. And they're never seen again.
I spoke to the owner of my FLGS tonight about the topic. I was told that typically their distributor sends them at least 1 box of each new product. When AT came out, the distributor told them not to order any and to make it a special order only line because they had such low demand from all of their customers. So basically GW announced it, nobody called their FLGS to order it, so no FLGS ordered it from their distributor. This store I frequent has the new delaque on the shelf as well as several other gangs, some blood bowl teams, WMH, Infinity, Xwing, SW legions, the new Fallout miniatures game, etc. AT18 is literally the only GW product or even the only decently popular wargame they don't stock at all on the shelf. The owner talked to the regulars that play in all the 40k events and there was just no interest in ordering the stuff or playing the game. Cost of the starter set and scale being completely incompatible to use the minis for anything else (lots of people buy necro minis to proxy as 40k units, or for D&D) prevented anyone from being even remotely interested in starting the game.
If it had been properly marketed, supply wouldn't be an issue. If several people at each FLGS were special ordering this stuff and then showing up to play games after they received and built it, the stores would be ordering it and stocking it on the shelf. Instead, it was poorly marketed, the starter set was uninspiring and overpriced, and as a result nobody ordered it, nobody plays it, so the stores aren't stocking it. My FLGS could put 3 boxes of each AT product on the shelf tomorrow and it would just sit there unless I bought it to play with my gf on our table at home. Supply is driven by demand, especially in this industry. If there's demand for a certain game and the store has to special order the same thing multiple times, they will just add it to their weekly order sheet. As long as the demand isn't there, the supply won't be, either.
Your local store and my local store apparently exist in two separate universes. As I said above, my store CANNOT GET THE PRODUCT past the initial roll-out wave. It's not a matter of marketing. It's a matter of THERE IS NO PRODUCT. So once the store's initial three Reavers sold out (and they sold out quickly), no more showed up. When the new Warlord was released, it showed up in the store and sold out almost immediately. The same happened with the new knights. The latter two are products that were released just within the last few weeks. There's zero difficulty selling the product. Again, it is FLYING OFF THE SHELVES. The problem is that my local store can't get it back in stock once the initial allotment has sold out. The only thing that they've been able to keep in stock is the rules set.
This is a serious issue given that new players need product. And if the store can't keep the product in stock, then it's difficult to get a group up and running. A potential player walks by, sees the game being played (and it was being played in the store last Monday night), and goes over to the GW section (which at my local store has quite a lot of GW stuff) to check out the game. But there aren't any figures for sale. And that means that player can't buy in because they can't get the figures.
No amount of marketing is going to resolve a supply chain problem.
The fact that these threads not only exist, but are more popular than any other thread in their respective forum, is fairly strong evidence that something about the marketing strategy for these games isn't working. It's far from the only evidence, but it is evidence. Hand waving it away because you don't like the conclusions drawn from it doesn't make it any less valid.
From what I've seen, the problem isn't the marketing. It's the supply. My local game store can't get the product. When a new item is released, a few of them arrive and then fly off the shelves. And they're never seen again.
I spoke to the owner of my FLGS tonight about the topic. I was told that typically their distributor sends them at least 1 box of each new product. When AT came out, the distributor told them not to order any and to make it a special order only line because they had such low demand from all of their customers. So basically GW announced it, nobody called their FLGS to order it, so no FLGS ordered it from their distributor. This store I frequent has the new delaque on the shelf as well as several other gangs, some blood bowl teams, WMH, Infinity, Xwing, SW legions, the new Fallout miniatures game, etc. AT18 is literally the only GW product or even the only decently popular wargame they don't stock at all on the shelf. The owner talked to the regulars that play in all the 40k events and there was just no interest in ordering the stuff or playing the game. Cost of the starter set and scale being completely incompatible to use the minis for anything else (lots of people buy necro minis to proxy as 40k units, or for D&D) prevented anyone from being even remotely interested in starting the game.
If it had been properly marketed, supply wouldn't be an issue. If several people at each FLGS were special ordering this stuff and then showing up to play games after they received and built it, the stores would be ordering it and stocking it on the shelf. Instead, it was poorly marketed, the starter set was uninspiring and overpriced, and as a result nobody ordered it, nobody plays it, so the stores aren't stocking it. My FLGS could put 3 boxes of each AT product on the shelf tomorrow and it would just sit there unless I bought it to play with my gf on our table at home. Supply is driven by demand, especially in this industry. If there's demand for a certain game and the store has to special order the same thing multiple times, they will just add it to their weekly order sheet. As long as the demand isn't there, the supply won't be, either.
Your local store and my local store apparently exist in two separate universes. As I said above, my store CANNOT GET THE PRODUCT past the initial roll-out wave. It's not a matter of marketing. It's a matter of THERE IS NO PRODUCT. So once the store's initial three Reavers sold out (and they sold out quickly), no more showed up. When the new Warlord was released, it showed up in the store and sold out almost immediately. The same happened with the new knights. The latter two are products that were released just within the last few weeks. There's zero difficulty selling the product. Again, it is FLYING OFF THE SHELVES. The problem is that my local store can't get it back in stock once the initial allotment has sold out. The only thing that they've been able to keep in stock is the rules set.
This is a serious issue given that new players need product. And if the store can't keep the product in stock, then it's difficult to get a group up and running. A potential player walks by, sees the game being played (and it was being played in the store last Monday night), and goes over to the GW section (which at my local store has quite a lot of GW stuff) to check out the game. But there aren't any figures for sale. And that means that player can't buy in because they can't get the figures.
No amount of marketing is going to resolve a supply chain problem.
Then it's an issue with the distributor your store is using. I haven't seen anything for AT go out of stock on the GW site. GW has no problem producing enough to meet demand. My FLGS is able to order as much as they want, whenever they want if someone wants to buy it. I'm not in a different universe, just a different country. I see a lot of people posting about playing the game in Canada, UK, Poland, etc. I'm still trying to find anyone that plays or stocks the game in the 3 states I actually spend time in, or really anywhere in the US outside of the DC area or Bay Area in CA. It seems there's 2 isolated pockets of people playing it and 40 something states where it isn't played at all either at FLGS or GW/Warhammer stores.
Toofast wrote: [
Then it's an issue with the distributor your store is using. I haven't seen anything for AT go out of stock on the GW site. GW has no problem producing enough to meet demand. My FLGS is able to order as much as they want, whenever they want if someone wants to buy it. I'm not in a different universe, just a different country. I see a lot of people posting about playing the game in Canada, UK, Poland, etc. I'm still trying to find anyone that plays or stocks the game in the 3 states I actually spend time in, or really anywhere in the US outside of the DC area or Bay Area in CA. It seems there's 2 isolated pockets of people playing it and 40 something states where it isn't played at all either at FLGS or GW/Warhammer stores.
It's not the distributor. It's stock. GW makes sure that its mail order store has enough to cover projected demands, and then everyone else gets the left overs. Usually, this is fine as there are typically more than enough "left overs". That doesn't appear to be the case in this instance. You've already stated that your FLGS isn't ordering AT product, as it believes that the product won't sell. So your store's typical practices have nothing to do with the ability of stores to get product for AT, since your local store apparently isn't even trying to do so. And as I stated above, my local store has no problem keeping every single other GW product in stock. It's only AT that they can't get replenishment on.
And as an added data point - I saw it mentioned just recently in one of the threads on this forum (though unfortunately I don't remember which one) that the Warlord and the Reaver are two of GW's best selling miniatures this year. If true, then a *lot* of AT miniatures are selling.
In short, the information that's getting back to me supports the idea that GW and SG completely underestimated the interest that this new game would engender. That indicates that the problem isn't marketing. The problem is logistics and manufacturing.
Riddle me this - if AT is such a bust, then why has Specialist Games already released a variant Warlord Titan, announced a variant Warlord Reaver, and released a completely new kit of knights? Does that sound like a game that's not moving product?
We also know from designers that since the SG, especially AT, have sold exceptionally well, they are getting a larger studio with more members and what not. It's as far from a bust as games can be, which doesn't mean it's still readily available everywhere or easy to get a large local group on board with.
Toofast wrote: [
Then it's an issue with the distributor your store is using. I haven't seen anything for AT go out of stock on the GW site. GW has no problem producing enough to meet demand. My FLGS is able to order as much as they want, whenever they want if someone wants to buy it. I'm not in a different universe, just a different country. I see a lot of people posting about playing the game in Canada, UK, Poland, etc. I'm still trying to find anyone that plays or stocks the game in the 3 states I actually spend time in, or really anywhere in the US outside of the DC area or Bay Area in CA. It seems there's 2 isolated pockets of people playing it and 40 something states where it isn't played at all either at FLGS or GW/Warhammer stores.
It's not the distributor. It's stock. GW makes sure that its mail order store has enough to cover projected demands, and then everyone else gets the left overs. Usually, this is fine as there are typically more than enough "left overs". That doesn't appear to be the case in this instance. You've already stated that your FLGS isn't ordering AT product, as it believes that the product won't sell. So your store's typical practices have nothing to do with the ability of stores to get product for AT, since your local store apparently isn't even trying to do so. And as I stated above, my local store has no problem keeping every single other GW product in stock. It's only AT that they can't get replenishment on.
And as an added data point - I saw it mentioned just recently in one of the threads on this forum (though unfortunately I don't remember which one) that the Warlord and the Reaver are two of GW's best selling miniatures this year. If true, then a *lot* of AT miniatures are selling.
In short, the information that's getting back to me supports the idea that GW and SG completely underestimated the interest that this new game would engender. That indicates that the problem isn't marketing. The problem is logistics and manufacturing.
Riddle me this - if AT is such a bust, then why has Specialist Games already released a variant Warlord Titan, announced a variant Warlord Reaver, and released a completely new kit of knights? Does that sound like a game that's not moving product?
My store had 1 person order it just to paint, but he hasn't been back. I inquired about ordering it because my gf and I can play it at home even if nobody else in our area plays and was told their distributor has no issue getting the stock. Maybe it's different in Canada. I have to wonder how those kits are selling so well if they aren't selling in any of the states I frequent, and everything else is selling there. Believe me, I wish it wasn't the case as I love the models and the rules for the game look like tons of fun. I just wish I could find a community for it, or even generate any interest at all in starting a community myself.
Just want to ask the people who actual played this game: How hard is it to score an engine kill? Im watching a battle report where an entire army is pretty much shooting at one reaver and yet since the damage have to be randomly generated it seems it takes so much to kill a single titan that it's less titanic firepower and more spitballs...
The fact that these threads not only exist, but are more popular than any other thread in their respective forum, is fairly strong evidence that something about the marketing strategy for these games isn't working. It's far from the only evidence, but it is evidence. Hand waving it away because you don't like the conclusions drawn from it doesn't make it any less valid.
no one is denying that the marketing was and is completely fubar, that is the only flaw about the game.
so little models yet they drip feed it over several months when everything should have been released whitin 6 weeks including the upgrade sprues, and they make the huge error of releasing the moust expensive model first just cuz some egg head whitin GW thinks that warlords looks cooler then warhounds.
(my local 3rd part dealer ((web shop)) stock the entire model range, the warhounds and reavers sells out faster then he can order a new shipment from GW, while the old warlord still havent sold out its first wave)
this is the problem of having the game whitin GW, they, dont understand how to release the game cuz they haven done anythign like it for over 20 years, and their release plan simply dont have time or space for it, it would have been better if the game was placed exlusivly under FW.
Spectral Ceramite wrote: If thread about a bust is still going...it is a bust...If it is producing a good game? Their would have been a thread made about it, being good?
lol. Can't come up with more ridiculous theory?
The most active threads on AT18 and 30k forums are whether the games are dead or not, with the people defending it saying "well it's played in my area" and everyone else saying "well I haven't been able to get a game at all". If you have to live in certain towns in England or Poland to get a game, but can't find a game in any city in 3/4 of the states in the US, or most of the rest of the world even where 40k and AoS are played daily, there's a problem. My parents live in Ohio, I regularly travel to Alabama for both work and football games, and I live in South Florida. If I can't find a game of something in Cleveland, Columbus, Cincinnati, Birmingham, Montgomery, Mobile, Orlando, Tampa, or Miami, there's a problem with the popularity of that game. I can find a game of 40k, AoS, Kill Team, Xwing or Warmahordes in any of those places. I cannot find a single person playing AT18 (or 30k) in those areas. I have tried the local gaming forum here, reddit, Facebook groups, calling the owners of FLGS, and calling the managers of GW/Warhammer stores. Maybe if the stores stocked anything for these games, rulebooks, models, etc, or GW ran an event for these games like their recent Kill Team campaign, that would change. However, their current marketing strategy seems to be releasing specialist games and hoping they sell on nostalgia alone. I'm not sure about the UK or the rest of Europe, but outside of small communities in the most populated areas here in the states, it isn't working.
The fact that these threads not only exist, but are more popular than any other thread in their respective forum, is fairly strong evidence that something about the marketing strategy for these games isn't working. It's far from the only evidence, but it is evidence. Hand waving it away because you don't like the conclusions drawn from it doesn't make it any less valid.
Dakkadakka is more of 40k forum so less activity is hardly evidence. Howabout check activity on you know actual at community? Are you claiming historical games are dead because 40k crowd isn't talking about it? Lol. Howabout reports of sale success. My flgs couldn't get reavers for a while as they had ran out. Warlord and reaver are among gw top releases for year.
Just because you choose to ignore evidence to contrary doesn't mean game is bust
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Tiger9gamer wrote: Just want to ask the people who actual played this game: How hard is it to score an engine kill? Im watching a battle report where an entire army is pretty much shooting at one reaver and yet since the damage have to be randomly generated it seems it takes so much to kill a single titan that it's less titanic firepower and more spitballs...
Titans are described as having powerfull weapons but also powerful defences. Void shields are, as long as they are up, 100% impenetrable to guns. Throw up 10000 mega ton nuke over titan and it doesn't care. If titans were destroyed easily there wouldn't be much left anymore ;-) And titans being tough also helps avoiding 40k syndrome where first two turns are most crucial and wiping more important than scenarios.
As for BR without seeing what titans, what weapons and what dice rolls hard to say. Could be bad luck, could be bad play by forgetting you can actually take aimed shots. Take example from my last game. Reaver had taken some pot shots previous turn knocking some shields. Then warlord fired up(after quake cannon had turned it to point at the reaver) fired. First carapace laser blasters knocked down shields(crucial). Then sunfury plasma fired max power and got couple hits to legs as it turned out causing huge damage there. With this another sunfury powered to max and took _aimed shots_. Hit little bit more to legs immobilizing the reaver and near dead. Another reaver then took aimed shots with turbo laser destructor(had still laser blaster and gatling blaster(which was -2 to hit though due to LOS issues so couldn't take aimed shot. Specifically the plasma warlord was partially in way!) left in case first weapon fails) fired again aimed shots and got the 1 hit needed. Dead reaver.
Some light fire on previous turn, warlord+part of reaver to take down one reaver. Can't expect much faster if you don't want game end in like turn 3 because everything's dead.
tneva82 wrote: Dakkadakka is more of 40k forum so less activity is hardly evidence. How about check activity on you know actual at community? Are you claiming historical games are dead because 40k crowd isn't talking about it? Lol. Howabout reports of sale success. My flgs couldn't get reavers for a while as they had ran out. Warlord and reaver are among gw top releases for year.
Just because you choose to ignore evidence to contrary doesn't mean game is bust
The game overall might not be a bust. Locally it very much is a bust. I got the battlegroup and have offered to provide 2 maniples and teach people how to play, I still can't generate any interest. I see it's doing very well in the UK, other parts of Europe, as well as the DC metro area and Bay area here in the US. However, trying to get a game in anytown USA (even places where you can easily find games of 30k, 40k, AoS, WMH, Infinity, Xwing, Blood Bowl, and Necromunda) is downright impossible. Finding a store that even stocks the game on their shelves, whether FLGS or GW/Warhammer, is equally impossible. If a game is the most popular game ever in China but you can't find anyone playing it within 1000 miles of where you live, is it a bust? Well, to people in China it isn't. That doesn't make it seem like a popular game to someone in Florida.
Tiger9gamer wrote: Just want to ask the people who actual played this game: How hard is it to score an engine kill? Im watching a battle report where an entire army is pretty much shooting at one reaver and yet since the damage have to be randomly generated it seems it takes so much to kill a single titan that it's less titanic firepower and more spitballs...
Titans are described as having powerfull weapons but also powerful defences. Void shields are, as long as they are up, 100% impenetrable to guns. Throw up 10000 mega ton nuke over titan and it doesn't care. If titans were destroyed easily there wouldn't be much left anymore ;-) And titans being tough also helps avoiding 40k syndrome where first two turns are most crucial and wiping more important than scenarios.
As for BR without seeing what titans, what weapons and what dice rolls hard to say. Could be bad luck, could be bad play by forgetting you can actually take aimed shots. Take example from my last game. Reaver had taken some pot shots previous turn knocking some shields. Then warlord fired up(after quake cannon had turned it to point at the reaver) fired. First carapace laser blasters knocked down shields(crucial). Then sunfury plasma fired max power and got couple hits to legs as it turned out causing huge damage there. With this another sunfury powered to max and took _aimed shots_. Hit little bit more to legs immobilizing the reaver and near dead. Another reaver then took aimed shots with turbo laser destructor(had still laser blaster and gatling blaster(which was -2 to hit though due to LOS issues so couldn't take aimed shot. Specifically the plasma warlord was partially in way!) left in case first weapon fails) fired again aimed shots and got the 1 hit needed. Dead reaver.
Some light fire on previous turn, warlord+part of reaver to take down one reaver. Can't expect much faster if you don't want game end in like turn 3 because everything's dead.
I never see anyone take call shots in those games either, so I guess that could be a problem. And, I made the post before there was the first true kill I have seen in a battle report, but it felt like the reaver took a whole lot of fire before It went down in the game. I guess I would have to play to really see how it is. Thanks for explaining some aspects though!
I never see anyone take call shots in those games either, so I guess that could be a problem. And, I made the post before there was the first true kill I have seen in a battle report, but it felt like the reaver took a whole lot of fire before It went down in the game. I guess I would have to play to really see how it is. Thanks for explaining some aspects though!
Well, it's Winters, so you should go in expecting some funny banter and pretty figures, not proper tactics
But yes, the game is intentionally more slow going and requires you to commit if you want to have engines go boom. It takes a lesson from BFG, which James cited as a major influence, where singular ships can exchange fire all day long without doing anything but pinging each others' shields. Pack tactics, coordinated maneuvers and concentration of force are the keys to victory in this game, as you have to push hard to make something break, but when the plan comes together...
I never see anyone take call shots in those games either, so I guess that could be a problem. And, I made the post before there was the first true kill I have seen in a battle report, but it felt like the reaver took a whole lot of fire before It went down in the game. I guess I would have to play to really see how it is. Thanks for explaining some aspects though!
Well, it's Winters, so you should go in expecting some funny banter and pretty figures, not proper tactics
But yes, the game is intentionally more slow going and requires you to commit if you want to have engines go boom. It takes a lesson from BFG, which James cited as a major influence, where singular ships can exchange fire all day long without doing anything but pinging each others' shields. Pack tactics, coordinated maneuvers and concentration of force are the keys to victory in this game, as you have to push hard to make something break, but when the plan comes together...
Oh god that's basically unwatchable. He starts off giving a warlord -1 to hit for long range with his missile launchers, when it should have +1. When a reaver thinks its missile launcher can only fire straight, and that its laser blaster is S10 instead of 8. And like basically everyone who has done a batrep on youtube, they don't realise you get two hits with a blast that lands fully on a titan's base.
It may genuinely be affecting the perception of the game that "influencers" are doing such an awful job of demonstrating it. Obviously nothing dies if your guns are so much less effective than they are supposed to be.
I do wish they'd given us different guns for warlords instead of pairs. They easily could have done sprues with one of each main gun on. It would also have really helped in the game. If you fire two bellicosas all day long for half effect (because you haven't read the rules) then you're about as likely to blow yourself up as you are the enemy.
I'd like to offer an alternate scenario to the boom or bust discussions on AT, which I did not see mentioned on this thread.
There are many long time epic scale players that are investing heavily in this game.
The actual rules for us is totally irrelevant. I doubt I will ever use them. However I am buying tons of models for my massive epic forces. Since these are closer to the scale they should have been (the original ones are small and out of scale) a lot of epic player are investing in AT18 to fill out their epic armies with these "truescale" titans.
I would agree that purely based on playing this game by the rules the models are sold for might be more of a "bust", since I doubt they will stand the test of time.
However on the model front I would definitely catagorize it as a "boom", becuase there is a significant amount of epic players like me that look at this game purely as reinforcements for our standing epic armies.
Once weapon sprues and the rest of the knight variants are made available (which looks highly likely at this point), for me at least, I would decleare this games release a success. Anything beyond that is a bonus.
So I think this game's "boom or bust" analysis needs to be a little more deeper than being based how much its being "played" since there are those like me buying a lot of it to play with in an epic system of choice.
That doesnt do much for building a community of AT18 players, but it does contribute to sales that may push the life of the system further along and increase the chance for more models and variants.
The fact that these threads not only exist, but are more popular than any other thread in their respective forum, is fairly strong evidence that something about the marketing strategy for these games isn't working. It's far from the only evidence, but it is evidence. Hand waving it away because you don't like the conclusions drawn from it doesn't make it any less valid.
no one is denying that the marketing was and is completely fubar, that is the only flaw about the game.
so little models yet they drip feed it over several months when everything should have been released whitin 6 weeks including the upgrade sprues, and they make the huge error of releasing the moust expensive model first just cuz some egg head whitin GW thinks that warlords looks cooler then warhounds.
(my local 3rd part dealer ((web shop)) stock the entire model range, the warhounds and reavers sells out faster then he can order a new shipment from GW, while the old warlord still havent sold out its first wave)
this is the problem of having the game whitin GW, they, dont understand how to release the game cuz they haven done anythign like it for over 20 years, and their release plan simply dont have time or space for it, it would have been better if the game was placed exlusivly under FW.
I've seen a few games of the Grandmaster edition where the Warlord wipes out all the enemy Knights in one shot, and then the rest of the game is a few rounds where the Warlords just blow each other to kingdom come. In one of those battle reports, not even the cover of rock made any difference for the poor Knights, which seems silly as they are supposed to use cover to flank enemy titans. Somehow a Warhound / Knight combo seems a better fit...
I never see anyone take call shots in those games either, so I guess that could be a problem. And, I made the post before there was the first true kill I have seen in a battle report, but it felt like the reaver took a whole lot of fire before It went down in the game. I guess I would have to play to really see how it is. Thanks for explaining some aspects though!
Well if you don't use aimed shots of course you are at the mercy of location dice and it's going to take more time to bring titan down. When titan has seriously damaged location you should be looking at aimed shots. That's going to take down titan lot faster.
PS. AT group in FB broke 5k member limit. Biggest 40k group I have seen so far is 30k. Not too bad for busted game.
"AT group in FB broke 5k member limit. Biggest 40k group I have seen so far is 30k. Not too bad for busted game."
People are more interested in the models and painting aspects than the actual game play. It costs a lot to get into this game and I doubt very much that it will stand with time.
wildger wrote: "AT group in FB broke 5k member limit. Biggest 40k group I have seen so far is 30k. Not too bad for busted game."
People are more interested in the models and painting aspects than the actual game play. It costs a lot to get into this game and I doubt very much that it will stand with time.
It actually doesn't cost that much. I got the battlegroup box set today for £75 from dark sphere. That's something around 1200 points of titans. If you got the rules, a second reaver and a box of 3 knights you'd have an axiom maniple and a 1750 point list for maybe £150. Under £200 even at RRP.
As others have said many times, this was a marketing fail by GW but the underlying game is good. The GME was too big and too expensive. It made people think this was a game that would cost you a grand to play properly, but it really isn't. I got the GME off ebay for £165 and a plasma/fist warlord. My total spend so far has been under £300 and I've got something like 3000 points worth of stuff. I've probably got one more warlord than I'll ever need, so I might sell one after I've seen the maniples in titandeath. I have to admit I'm tempted to build a maniple of 5 warlords but so far I've only basecoated my first!
wildger wrote: "AT group in FB broke 5k member limit. Biggest 40k group I have seen so far is 30k. Not too bad for busted game."
People are more interested in the models and painting aspects than the actual game play. It costs a lot to get into this game and I doubt very much that it will stand with time.
It's only just hitting it's stride though. And whether people are into it for painting or playing - it's still selling.
Biggest drawback at launch was a paucity of weapon options for the Warlord. Given that's the traditional powerhouse, having just one kit out meant the other Titan Classes had less choice from their own dakka. After all, the Twin Volcano Cannons are for your killshots. So everyone else is more geared toward rapid shield stripping.
Now? Now we're starting to see that change up a bit. And as others come out, so the game widens. As I've said since the get go, I really want to play with Concussive Weapons - because spinning an enemy Titan out of an otherwise carefully selected LoF is potentially game winning.
I too ordered a Battle Group from Darksphere for £75 just yesterday. Should be turning up today...in fact, hold on.....*checks Royal Mail*, nads. Need to go pick it up from the Post Office tomorrow or Sunday. Well, that's a PITA I could do without!
Previously, I had but the core rules, A Warlord and a Knight Banner. Was too pricey for me, and found finding stuff in stock was tricksy.
Now? Now I've got a decent Maniple - and certainly enough to be able to vary my maniple with just another couple of purchases.
I have posted a little on this tread. but honestly biggest things stopping me is 1. Not many weapons options or viable upgrade kits 2. The big one is only one race, no nids, chaos/divergent, orks, eldar, crons or even tau etc, I cant remember if tau encounter is after?). Im sure during the herasy era most of these races especially crons and eldar had bigger mechs than others. Arh well
Spectral Ceramite wrote: The big one is only one race, no nids, chaos/divergent, orks, eldar, crons or even tau etc, I cant remember if tau encounter is after?). Im sure during the herasy era most of these races especially crons and eldar had bigger mechs than others. Arh well
Don't click if you're still reading the Titandeath book
Spoiler:
Tau, Nids & Necrons are all 10,000 years away from the current AT setting, but Chaos stuff is coming eventually as they work through the Horus Heresy timeline. The new book covers the creation of the first warp-corrupted Titans at Beta-Garmon, and that's where the next AT expansion is set
It's also pretty amusing that you're complaining about a game with one faction with nearly 60k pts of Imperial armies listed in your signature
My diversity is actually diverse, a different faction with the same pretty much everything apart from a few rules is not diverse its minuscule. I will just wait out for BFG if it comes then.
wildger wrote: "AT group in FB broke 5k member limit. Biggest 40k group I have seen so far is 30k. Not too bad for busted game."
People are more interested in the models and painting aspects than the actual game play. It costs a lot to get into this game and I doubt very much that it will stand with time.
It's only just hitting it's stride though. And whether people are into it for painting or playing - it's still selling.
Biggest drawback at launch was a paucity of weapon options for the Warlord. Given that's the traditional powerhouse, having just one kit out meant the other Titan Classes had less choice from their own dakka. After all, the Twin Volcano Cannons are for your killshots. So everyone else is more geared toward rapid shield stripping.
Now? Now we're starting to see that change up a bit. And as others come out, so the game widens. As I've said since the get go, I really want to play with Concussive Weapons - because spinning an enemy Titan out of an otherwise carefully selected LoF is potentially game winning.
I too ordered a Battle Group from Darksphere for £75 just yesterday. Should be turning up today...in fact, hold on.....*checks Royal Mail*, nads. Need to go pick it up from the Post Office tomorrow or Sunday. Well, that's a PITA I could do without!
Previously, I had but the core rules, A Warlord and a Knight Banner. Was too pricey for me, and found finding stuff in stock was tricksy.
Now? Now I've got a decent Maniple - and certainly enough to be able to vary my maniple with just another couple of purchases.
Great stuff. If you happen to be in the South London area, it looks like a few of us at my club are getting into the game. We're planning some games in the new year.
I feel this titanicus thing should be kept in its own "game" and should stay FAR away from us who have invested so much time and money in a certain games structure. I HATE scaling being incorrect and not realistic, that's just me of course but yeah. Why couldn't they just make the models normal 40k size and create a new game play specifically for what ever game play this titanicus involves, instead of doing some weird scale/game changing model crap...
Automatically Appended Next Post: Give titanicus a little table in the corner of the room or some thing and ban it from the regular 40k table, and put a makeshift wall around it.
Stormatious wrote: I feel this titanicus thing should be kept in its own "game" and should stay FAR away from us who have invested so much time and money in a certain games structure. I HATE scaling being incorrect and not realistic, that's just me of course but yeah. Why couldn't they just make the models normal 40k size and create a new game play specifically for what ever game play this titanicus involves, instead of doing some weird scale/game changing model crap...
Give titanicus a little table in the corner of the room or some thing and ban it from the regular 40k table, and put a makeshift wall around it.
You realize that if the models were kept at 40K scale then they'd need the whole room, right? And it is entirely it's own game with models that can't be on a 40K table. Really, I've no idea what you're trying to say here other than "I'm scared and confused by unfamiliar things".
Stormatious wrote: I feel this titanicus thing should be kept in its own "game" and should stay FAR away from us who have invested so much time and money in a certain games structure. I HATE scaling being incorrect and not realistic, that's just me of course but yeah. Why couldn't they just make the models normal 40k size and create a new game play specifically for what ever game play this titanicus involves, instead of doing some weird scale/game changing model crap...
Give titanicus a little table in the corner of the room or some thing and ban it from the regular 40k table, and put a makeshift wall around it.
You realize that if the models were kept at 40K scale then they'd need the whole room, right? And it is entirely it's own game. Really, I've no idea what you're trying to say here other than "I'm scared and confused by unfamiliar things".
No i mean why couldn't they just add the models in as normal 40k models but add a game play option for what ever the game titanicus currently is in the codex's. So im not scared and confused im saying to me it just seems unnecessary and does in fact add confusion overall to the hobby for some one who is new, not saying i am. So yeah i mean if they are 40k scale then that would be fine for whole room.
Automatically Appended Next Post: All im trying to say is it seems completely unnecessary, just my thoughts that's all, you can perhaps explain other wise.
There are 40K scale titan models but they're huge and expensive (Warlord is 2feet tall and costs about £1300).
When I said "whole room" I meant that a table would need to be the size of the whole room so that Titanicus could be played at 40K scale.
Requiring a whole room to play, about £5K of models and a load of 2-3ft tall buildings for scenery makes it a tad impractical in 40K scale. But the models do exist so feel free to have at it if you like.
Er Storm you are aware that this game isn't about elite troopers in armour but building sized titans. The smallest model in AT is a knight, which is one of the biggest plastic kits for 40K.
The Warlord is many times its size and costs over £1000 in resin and if done in plastic would still be many hundreds and be almost impractical for most people. Even just building and painting such big models is a challenge; not to mention transport and actual playing with them.
No I think you've gotten the wrong end of the stick somewhere and not properly looked at what AT is representing and being. It's almost impossible to make it for 40K scale and have anyone beyond a handful (worldwide) who would be able to buy, build, paint and actually play. There's no practical nor financial reason to make it 40K scale.
Scott-S6 wrote: There are 40K scale models but they're huge and expensive (Warlord is 2feet tall and costs about £1300).
When I said "whole room" I meant that a table would need to be the size of the whole room so that Titanicus could be played at 40K scale.
These guys actually played a game of Titanicus on 40K scale (proxying Eldar Titans for the Imperial Titans on one side, presumably because they didn't have enough Imperial FW Titans for TWO 40K-scale Titanicus armies )
I see, well as long as they don't focus on one game over the other etc... but yeah i get it. Like if you wanted to start getting 40k models of some of the massive home world ships for some of the factions ypu would have to make a new scaled game for it... OR DO U!!! jks
Stormatious wrote: I see, well as long as they don't focus on one game over the other etc... but yeah i get it. Like if you wanted to start getting 40k models of some of the massive home world ships for some of the factions ypu would have to make a new scaled game for it... OR DO U!!! jks
That also was a thing (and supposed to be coming back in a couple of years).
So quite a lot of models aren’t useable in the different games. A Land raider isn’t much use in AoS or on a bloodbowl pitch, for example. I guess you could argue that Titanicus can’t be played on the same boards as 40k... except that it basically can.
There used to be infantry for epic. It was a pretty good game and people still play it, some of them now using the new titans.
Weirdly, the rules for titans in AT are far more detailed than in 40k. In 40k they just have a simple damage track and no issues with stuff like managing their plasma reactors.
One day I’d love to do a titanicus battle at 40k scale, for a convention show or something. My club does probably have the resources to stage it, though it’d take a hell of a long time to paint!
Weirdly, the rules for titans in AT are far more detailed than in 40k. In 40k they just have a simple damage track and no issues with stuff like managing their plasma reactors.
Heh it is an odd thing that while 40k has become more of a streamlined mass battle game, Titanicus with its(in universe) much bigger units has come back as a crunchy skirmish game
I see this thread is still trucking, with the two sides basically boiling down to “I love this game, so it cant be a bust” versus “it isn’t as expansive or popular as 40k, the most expansive and popular war game in the world, so what’s the point?”
It got me thinking, what *is* a “total bust” from a GW perspective? A lot of games have come and gone over the years. I think I can provide one perfect example of a total bust: Dreadfleet.
Dreadfleet wasn’t in 28mm scale, nor was it in scale with any other game GW made. It could have been a reboot of Man O’ War, but it wasn’t, so the fans of the old game had little to pull them in. Fans willing to try something new would go on to discover it actually isn’t an especially good game either. Piles of them sat at my FLGS at 2/3rd off for years, haunting the clearance shelf. It was never revisited, no expansions were made, and it was never really discussed again.
*That* is, to me, a total bust.
Then there’s the loads off oddball specialist games, like Warmaster, the various Epics, Aeronautica Imperialis, Blood Bowl, Necromunda... all beloved by many over the decades, but not big enough sellers to keep them from going OOP for long periods of time.
On that level, AT18 will likely be like it’s original incarnation - beloved by many, popular for years, maybe a slow boil like Age of Sigmar was, growing in popularity when the range is a little wider. It will never be as popular as 40k, because literally nothing is that isn’t a card game. But, I think it has already beaten the Dreadfleet low-bar.
Oggthrok wrote: I see this thread is still trucking, with the two sides basically boiling down to “I love this game, so it cant be a bust” versus “it isn’t as expansive or popular as 40k, the most expansive and popular war game in the world, so what’s the point?”
It got me thinking, what *is* a “total bust” from a GW perspective? A lot of games have come and gone over the years. I think I can provide one perfect example of a total bust: Dreadfleet.
Dreadfleet wasn’t in 28mm scale, nor was it in scale with any other game GW made. It could have been a reboot of Man O’ War, but it wasn’t, so the fans of the old game had little to pull them in. Fans willing to try something new would go on to discover it actually isn’t an especially good game either. Piles of them sat at my FLGS at 2/3rd off for years, haunting the clearance shelf. It was never revisited, no expansions were made, and it was never really discussed again.
*That* is, to me, a total bust.
Then there’s the loads off oddball specialist games, like Warmaster, the various Epics, Aeronautica Imperialis, Blood Bowl, Necromunda... all beloved by many over the decades, but not big enough sellers to keep them from going OOP for long periods of time.
On that level, AT18 will likely be like it’s original incarnation - beloved by many, popular for years, maybe a slow boil like Age of Sigmar was, growing in popularity when the range is a little wider. It will never be as popular as 40k, because literally nothing is that isn’t a card game. But, I think it has already beaten the Dreadfleet low-bar.
Ahhhhhhhhh!!! Dreadfleet! The wound never healed.
Now that you mention it , there is one giant similarity. People wanted dreadfleet to be manowar. People want AT to be epic. Maybe thats the “total bust” element?
Spectral Ceramite wrote: My diversity is actually diverse, a different faction with the same pretty much everything apart from a few rules is not diverse its minuscule. I will just wait out for BFG if it comes then.
In my group, there's plenty of diversity. It comes from our painting, our backstory, our chosen tactics. Different rules aren't necessary.
[Battlefleet Gothic] also was a thing (and supposed to be coming back in a couple of years).
At no point have Forge World put a time frame on it. Or even confirmed it's a definite thing. In fact, the opposite - it's not currently being planned, as it would require any support for all other Specialist Games to be withdrawn for 18-24 months, which they're not willing to do at this point.
How big were the troops, if there were any at all.
There were no troop models at all in battlefleet gothic. Fighters were tiny specs.
And those fighters themselves dwarf the aircraft used in 40k. I suppose the Blast Markers, representing debris and gas clouds caused by damage, would include troops and ship crew amongst their constituent parts.
Pancakey wrote: Ahhhhhhhhh!!! Dreadfleet! The wound never healed. Now that you mention it , there is one giant similarity. People wanted dreadfleet to be manowar. People want AT to be epic. Maybe thats the “total bust” element?
Right? I still smart over Dreadfleet - I was in the school of people being delighted just to have it as a stand-alone game. It was so all-inclusive, with all of the terrain and styles of ships and accessories, a marvelous value!
...For a really mediocre game no one wants to play once, let alone twice...
But, and I mean no insult to Man O' War fans, but I have to disagree on Dreadfleet and Adeptus Titanicus being sister ships in fans really wanting them to make something else.
At the time Dreadfleet came out NetEpic existed to keep Epic gaming alive, and Epic Armageddon was still enjoyed by very active and vocal fans, with people 3-D printing units and eagerly trading models on Ebay. By the time it was clear an Adeptus Titanicus reboot was coming, the pent up desire was vocal, with the only criticism being that people didn't just want Titans, they want a whole product line. The response was so loud that Forgeworld, who had intended a boutique niche's niche game like Aeronautica Imperialis in resin, actually got GW to authorize expensive plastic kits, forcasting a lasting support and sales expectation.
Man O' War on the other hand... if anyone has kept the dream alive, I haven't encountered them. I don't recall people making clones of the miniatures or supporting fan-based versions of the ruleset. It was like "It would be better if this was a reboot of the old game... but no one was really excited about a reboot either."
I could be wrong though, and I'm enormously biased, because I do want Adeptus Titanicus to be so successful that one day we do see glorious little tiny Land Raiders and Predators and Legion marines stomping about at their giant iron feet.
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Fajita Fan wrote: I bought that stupid game and never finished the models.
Same. I even have one of those foam box inserts to keep the ships safe, but I can never quite get myself to finish... One day in retirement I’ll be sitting at the home, finally slathering red on that Empire ship, while my peers ask why a pirate ship is fire engine red, and I’ll say “because that’s how they painted it in White Dwarf!”
Man O War kind of died at a time before the internet was big and in a time when GW was a massive part of the market only. So basically it died and I don't think there was the network setup to really keep it going. Granted you could argue the same for Bloodbowl; but might be that the nature of Bloodbowl meant that its tournament scene sort of kept it alive.
Basically I think Man O War was a great concept, but lacked the organisation and ease of communication to keep any form of it easily alive before fans had drifted into other games.
That said I'm not aware of many games that have come after. In fact the only one I know for certain was Uncharted Seas by Spartan Games which was one of their first games and it did well; until SG killed it by basically both ignoring it and also missing several of their own news/release deadlines and just shelving the game until sales fell to nothing. It didn't help that alongside that their sculpting and casting methods improved dramatically and multiple fleets had older style models that really showed their age against newer ones - again a reason sales stifled as people waited for better sculpts that rarely if never came.
Man o’ war was kind of an ok game. It was never a big game for gw though. All the models apart from the war galleys in the starter set were metal (with plastic masts). I never bought dreadfleet, I’m glad to say, so I don’t know if it even shared mechanics.
Epic was a full game system. The first true white dwarf batrep was epic with Andy Chambers’ imperial soup beating Jes Goodwin’s Orks. There was a ton of stuff in plastic as well as metal.
So there’s no real comparison. Back then GW had a bunch of games but they weren’t all equal. Epic lost it’s shop space to Lotr when that came along (IIRC), which is kind of understandable.
The problem they’d have now is building the full range again. It’d be a hell of a lot of stuff. I don’t even know how they’d do it. The plan seems to be to create more titans, like the nemesis, for now. I don’t know how long they can keep that up for to be honest.
Honestly the way I'd do Epic now is as a series of multi-unit sprues. Much like how they did infantry back in the day. Infantry back then were all in a single box of plastic on one or two sprues which would build you pretty much all the various infantry options for the faction.
Today they could easily do that and have a vehicle sprue or two. So instead of a blister of lemon russes you'd get an Imperial Armoured Division box which would have russes, demolishers, hellhounds, hydras etc.... With something like a superheavy tank being a separate single purchase on its own (or in a twin pack).
That would at least let them cover a single faction with perhaps a handful of sprues. Of course it means a lot of balance testing before to put viable numbers on each sprue and a lot of unit design to make the units fit on the sprue - so its still a significant investment.
Making Epic, given that almost all of their models are CADed anyway, shouldn’t be terribly difficult and I absolutely agree each box should come with several different models. It’s so much easier to downscale models rather than upscale.
Fajita Fan wrote: Making Epic, given that almost all of their models are CADed anyway, shouldn’t be terribly difficult and I absolutely agree each box should come with several different models. It’s so much easier to downscale models rather than upscale.
You will get imperial titans only and like it!!!! They keep bleating about the “the horus heresy!!!” While GW is dismantling 30k piece by piece. It’s all rather strange
Slightly off topic, but considering the polar extremes of Titanicus and Kill Team...can anyone imagine a game where both are played in a connected manner?
Say there is an unmanned TItan in the titanicus game( the crew went out for a chinese and won't be back for a while. ) and two Kill Teams are trying to secure and commandeer it.
SamusDrake wrote: Slightly off topic, but considering the polar extremes of Titanicus and Kill Team...can anyone imagine a game where both are played in a connected manner?
Say there is an unmanned TItan in the titanicus game( the crew went out for a chinese and won't be back for a while. ) and two Kill Teams are trying to secure and commandeer it.
Has anyone tried this style of play before?
That sounds fun!
I did get to play games like this, long long ago in my pre-marriage and kids days. There would be BFG games to break through and land troops (we used Torpedo rules as the landers) then have 40k and Epic scenarios. In one example, Colonel Schafer’s last chancers (an imperial guard kill team by modern standards) were attacking a Gargant production facility, trying to sneak through the Orks to plant charges on the half finished frame. (I had a half complete 40k gargant scratchbuild that was perfect for it) They were successful, so in the following epic game the Ork player had fewer points in the amount of the cost of one gargant.
I doubt I’ll ever have time and energy to do this again, but if you can make it happen, it can be amazing!
SamusDrake wrote: Slightly off topic, but considering the polar extremes of Titanicus and Kill Team...can anyone imagine a game where both are played in a connected manner?
Say there is an unmanned TItan in the titanicus game( the crew went out for a chinese and won't be back for a while. ) and two Kill Teams are trying to secure and commandeer it.
Has anyone tried this style of play before?
One of my long-term wishlist things is to have a KillTeam board that represents the top deck of an Imperator. Attackers have to try to sabotage key systems, downing voids and causing body damage while Skitarii tech guard try to repel them.
SamusDrake wrote: Slightly off topic, but considering the polar extremes of Titanicus and Kill Team...can anyone imagine a game where both are played in a connected manner?
Say there is an unmanned TItan in the titanicus game( the crew went out for a chinese and won't be back for a while. ) and two Kill Teams are trying to secure and commandeer it.
Has anyone tried this style of play before?
You could easily do this, and the game would be more fun if the Titan were manned.
Two (or more) Kill Teams trying to achieve objectives on a Titan - a Warlord would be plenty big - and the defense forces running by automated rules. Sounds great!
wildger wrote: "AT group in FB broke 5k member limit. Biggest 40k group I have seen so far is 30k. Not too bad for busted game."
People are more interested in the models and painting aspects than the actual game play. It costs a lot to get into this game and I doubt very much that it will stand with time.
Seeing all br's there group seems to disagree with.
Plus 160e or so and you have good sized force to it that you can take to tournament so that would be equilavent to 2k 40k. Can you build 2k 40k army, especially decent one, for sub-200e? Yea real expensive
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Stormatious wrote: I feel this titanicus thing should be kept in its own "game" and should stay FAR away from us who have invested so much time and money in a certain games structure. I HATE scaling being incorrect and not realistic, that's just me of course but yeah. Why couldn't they just make the models normal 40k size and create a new game play specifically for what ever game play this titanicus involves, instead of doing some weird scale/game changing model crap...
Automatically Appended Next Post: Give titanicus a little table in the corner of the room or some thing and ban it from the regular 40k table, and put a makeshift wall around it.
28mm is actually the odd can't decide what scale it wants to be. Too big for big battles(40k battle sizes are already too big for 28mm and 40k armies are not big), too small for super detailed size.
28mm titans are too big for titan vs titan games as 40k sized titans show. And now there's still possibility for 6mm infantry and tanks for proper big battles like in 40k fluff rather than paltry skirmish 28mm models allow
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Scott-S6 wrote: There are 40K scale titan models but they're huge and expensive (Warlord is 2feet tall and costs about £1300).
When I said "whole room" I meant that a table would need to be the size of the whole room so that Titanicus could be played at 40K scale.
Requiring a whole room to play, about £5K of models and a load of 2-3ft tall buildings for scenery makes it a tad impractical in 40K scale. But the models do exist so feel free to have at it if you like.
Well 5mx5m table. Good luck reaching center
Automatically Appended Next Post:
SamusDrake wrote: Slightly off topic, but considering the polar extremes of Titanicus and Kill Team...can anyone imagine a game where both are played in a connected manner?
Say there is an unmanned TItan in the titanicus game( the crew went out for a chinese and won't be back for a while. ) and two Kill Teams are trying to secure and commandeer it.
Has anyone tried this style of play before?
Not 30k but in feb there's at/30k linked gaming day where games supposedly affect each other. No idea how it works. Will take Mortis there
SamusDrake wrote: Slightly off topic, but considering the polar extremes of Titanicus and Kill Team...can anyone imagine a game where both are played in a connected manner?
Say there is an unmanned TItan in the titanicus game( the crew went out for a chinese and won't be back for a while. ) and two Kill Teams are trying to secure and commandeer it.
Has anyone tried this style of play before?
I think my GW did a BFG game followed by Zone Mortalis to represent the boarding action.
You have a hatch in the middle. Simple and stormatious will be happy since there won't be any non-40K scale models making him confused and afraid. All of the "it's too expensive" complainers will be happy as well since they'll actually be correct.
In terms of the fyootcha, and what it might bring? I’m mostly excited for new weapon systems. Things like missile variants (though perhaps not the old, trusty, Harpoon missile), Ursus Claws/Trident, Chaos Energy Whip, centre mounted Macro Cannon (canonical, thanks to Imperator, Wrath of the Omnissiah).
Things that open up the three existing classes, offering different ways to field them. Stuff that represents a change in strategy from ‘destroy’ to ‘capture’. Think Age of Sail ‘Prize’ money. Chaos Energy Whip fries the crew via MIU feedback. Trident pulls enemy Titans off their feet. Takes them out of the battle, but not beyond salvaging. After all, this is the biggest threat the Legios Titanicus have ever faced, and ain’t nobody really got the time to replace losses fully. Far better to capture enemy Titans and redediate them etc.
I also want to see the ‘lower’ tech weapons come in. Stuff like the humble wrecking ball. Why spend the resources patching up a Battle Claw, when you can just replace it with a massive wrecking ball?
From a narrative point of view, seeing a down on their luck Maniple equippped with basic weapons having to take on a fresh from the Forge Maniple could be really good fun. By all means, down on their luck should have some form of a Veteran crew, the shiny boys less so.
Mandragola wrote: Man o’ war was kind of an ok game. It was never a big game for gw though. All the models apart from the war galleys in the starter set were metal (with plastic masts).
Most of the models for allGW games were metal at that point. Some armies might have had their single-part, single pose plastic base infantry available, but other than that, it was 1993, so metal all the way. It was a decade or more before having a mostly metal range was a sign that a game or army was "abandoned".
Man O' War was never a "specialist game"; it lasted longer than some of the other spin-offs as a "main range" game (sold in-store, WD coverage, etc), getting two boxed supplements.
When Necromunda, Blood Bowl, Mordheim, Inquisitor, Epic 40,000 and Battlefleet Gothic were hived off to Fanatic / Specialist Games (I can never remember which came first), Man O War had already gone. I think it was probably the number of card components and decks of playing cards required that made it uneconomical to support in reduced fashion (like Warhammer Quest). The others only really needed the rulebooks, and were often re-written to remove the need for specialist components (Necromunda lost the Sustained Fire dice, variable-damage weapons that didn't use a D6 and the old templates, for example). The exception would be Blood Bowl, but as I understand it, there was a thriving market supplying Block dice, templates and pitches, so it stayed viable.
The Warhammer Historical Trafalgar rules used elements of Man O War (and of Battlefleet Gothic, IIRC) but thankfully removed the need for a second table to hold all the huge ship record sheets you needed for that game.
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Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: For Titan boarding actions, I can recommend ‘Imperator; Wrath of the Omnissiah’
Nearly finished, and it’s a cracking read.
And Ian Watson's Space Marine but I suspect too many of you young 'uns might get confused.
Automatically Appended Next Post: As for Man’o’War, I really liked the ship cards!
I’m sure it could be streamlined and tweaked like, but I loved how smaller ships were harder to hit. Neatly represented the ‘aaaaand, roughty over there’ aiming of black powder cannon.
I've said it before, Battlefleet Gothic is perhaps a better representation of post-Age of Sail, pre-Deadnought naval combat than it is of space combat. (apart from the nova cannon and fighters).
I got a bit excited with the mention of "Ursus Claws" as I gave my battle group a grizzly bear sort of background( I do run away with the faries sometimes ). I had this cool image in my mind of a warhound sporting fashionable power claws...and then googling I find...harpoons?
I guess my mini-badasses are men of the sea now...
tneva82 wrote: Personal grudge vs specialist games and wants to make them fail?
I think it's more likely he's trying to reconcile all the people posting about it in forums and on Facebook with the fact that nobody plays it in the US. It seems to be alive and well in the UK and most of Europe, but if you want a game in the US you're SOL. I'm 2 months into trying to find a single other person to play with and I've been posting on dakka, reddit, Facebook groups, asking people at the FLGS, etc.
That isn't obviously even close to comprehensive(only 2 players in Finland? Hah. There's enough interest for potential 10 player tournament at least and that was asking 2 persons I knew from their locals and I know for sure there's ~5 persons who have been buying models from 3rd city and another city far from these 3 is setting up event so likely players there...)
Maybe try asking from AT communities rather than 40k/AOS?
Is this based on the usual logic of "our group of 3 plays it regularly. So it IS alive and well!"?
I've seen nowhere stock it.
Nowhere sell what stock it does have.
Nobody plays it.
Very little discussion.
And even fewer posted painted models (granted that is something becoming allot less popular in GW circles)
tneva82 wrote: Personal grudge vs specialist games and wants to make them fail?
I think it's more likely he's trying to reconcile all the people posting about it in forums and on Facebook with the fact that nobody plays it in the US. It seems to be alive and well in the UK and most of Europe, but if you want a game in the US you're SOL. I'm 2 months into trying to find a single other person to play with and I've been posting on dakka, reddit, Facebook groups, asking people at the FLGS, etc.
That's a shame, because AT is pretty ace.
Titan Battlegroup has put a serious dent in the start up cost as well.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Again, Valentinegames. Go on Facebook. Thriving community is thriving. Especially for a game that's what, barely 6 months old at the very, very most?
Darksphere stock it. Element stock it. Wayland stock it. Alchemist Games stock it.
Could it be that you don't see it in stock because it sells out fairly quickly??
You say 'nobody plays it'. Evidence for that if you please. Proper citation. As in, clear, irrefutable evidence that nobody is playing the game. In your own time. I can wait
Is this based on the usual logic of "our group of 3 plays it regularly. So it IS alive and well!"?
I've seen nowhere stock it.
Nowhere sell what stock it does have.
Nobody plays it.
Very little discussion.
And even fewer posted painted models (granted that is something becoming allot less popular in GW circles)
Or howabout large number of people posting their models and games across the world. UK, europe, US...
But yeah. Your FLGS has no gaming so it's obviously dead. And dakkadakka that's mostly 40k has little threads and it's dead. Let's ignore thriving AT dedicated communities etc. Those are only imagination.
In my local area it's pretty dead. My LGS sold through it's initial stock/preorders quite quickly but then very little of the other releases have had similar numbers of sales and I've never seen it played aside from the weekend of release. Plenty of other games are going strong but AT seems to have fallen on its face a bit over here.
Is this based on the usual logic of "our group of 3 plays it regularly. So it IS alive and well!"?
I've seen nowhere stock it.
Nowhere sell what stock it does have.
Nobody plays it.
Very little discussion.
And even fewer posted painted models (granted that is something becoming allot less popular in GW circles)
It's on stock and selling (out) at the 8 stores I frequent here in Madrid.
We just didn't want to address the elephant in the room. It is kinda rude to it :p
There's been at least one tournament over here in the last two weeks (one at Quimera Games and I think another one at Goblintrader, both in Madrid). I am personally not a fan, but credit where credit's due (plus, even I ended up caving in and I bought two battlegroup deals, although for use with Epic).
Bosskelot wrote: In my local area it's pretty dead. My LGS sold through it's initial stock/preorders quite quickly but then very little of the other releases have had similar numbers of sales and I've never seen it played aside from the weekend of release. Plenty of other games are going strong but AT seems to have fallen on its face a bit over here.
Do you think the release of titan death will do anything to breath more life into this game? There is supposed to be a 2019 reprint of the big box right?
Bosskelot wrote: In my local area it's pretty dead. My LGS sold through it's initial stock/preorders quite quickly but then very little of the other releases have had similar numbers of sales and I've never seen it played aside from the weekend of release. Plenty of other games are going strong but AT seems to have fallen on its face a bit over here.
Do you think the release of titan death will do anything to breath more life into this game? There is supposed to be a 2019 reprint of the big box right?
I know I heard something about the GME box being reprinted in 2019, probably for a limited amount again but at least it gives people a second chance to pick up a good starter.
To be fair, there are already good ways to get into the game with the maniple bundles, separate ruleset etc but a big old box always attracts!
While it sold out last August, it was practically roasted alive for being £175, so I'd be surprised if there wasn't some changes to the GME. Most likely a boxed edition of the Princeps Collection which is already £160 from the website...
TBH, I don't think Adeptus Titanicus isn't selling as well for its game than its miniatures. To me, it's a gold mine for people always wanting a Legio Titanicus without the question of buying FW or just room on their shelves, but not especially who want absolutely to play.
It's typically the kind of game you enjoy in a group of like-minded friends, rather than seeing it constantly on the competitive scene.
So I can understand why it sells so good, but also we don't see games that much in "public space".
Sarouan wrote: TBH, I don't think Adeptus Titanicus isn't selling as well for its game than its miniatures. To me, it's a gold mine for people always wanting a Legio Titanicus without the question of buying FW or just room on their shelves, but not especially who want absolutely to play.
It's typically the kind of game you enjoy in a group of like-minded friends, rather than seeing it constantly on the competitive scene.
So I can understand why it sells so good, but also we don't see games that much in "public space".
Its hard to tell if its being played enough, but going by Wayland's stock count the minis seem to sell.
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Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Eh, it’s something I’ll be playing behind closed doors. And that’s another three or four players accounted for,
Not being seen to be played is not the same as not being played
You come outside this instant! From now on you are the face of Adeptus Titanicus!
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Eh, it’s something I’ll be playing behind closed doors. And that’s another three or four players accounted for,
Not being seen to be played is not the same as not being played
For players without a local gaming club that only play games at their FLGS or Warhammer store, they are the same thing. If I can't post on the Facebook page and get someone to schedule a game with me, it really doesn't matter if everyone in SW FL is playing in their house, I won't be able to get a game.
Yup. I've asked 3 times about a month apart from each other about anyone in all of Southwest Florida that plays AT. I check the map weekly. I am the only player in a 2 hour radius of my house. I would have to drive 3+ hours to West Palm Beach for the closest player. I've called every FLGS and Warhammer store within 2 hours of me. None of them stock it, none of them have had to special order it for any of their customers, none of them have ever seen anyone playing a game in their store.
Yup. I've asked 3 times about a month apart from each other about anyone in all of Southwest Florida that plays AT. I check the map weekly. I am the only player in a 2 hour radius of my house. I would have to drive 3+ hours to West Palm Beach for the closest player. I've called every FLGS and Warhammer store within 2 hours of me. None of them stock it, none of them have had to special order it for any of their customers, none of them have ever seen anyone playing a game in their store.
It will be interesting to see how much GW backs this horse in the first half of 2019. They have had all of late 2018 to get the miniature range up to speed and to allow the youtube community to review and promote the game.
With a little luck, Titandeath could be the real introduction of AT...
So far, it is a bust. The groups in FB consists of mainly fanboys who are more interested in painting the models than anything else. How can you tell? They have many more models than necessary to field a standard game. In comparison to other GW specialist game, including its original version in 1988, this game can be considered dead in water if not saved by the power of social media like FB. I hope that Titandeath will stir up more interest but, following GW for more than 20 years, I doubt it very much. Although the game is pretty balanced at the moment, the introduction of fraction specific rules will likely kill it. But for the fanboys and collectors, who cares? It is better that the game does not evolve.
wildger wrote: So far, it is a bust. The groups in FB consists of mainly fanboys who are more interested in painting the models than anything else. How can you tell? They have many more models than necessary to field a standard game. In comparison to other GW specialist game, including its original version in 1988, this game can be considered dead in water if not saved by the power of social media like FB. I hope that Titandeath will stir up more interest but, following GW for more than 20 years, I doubt it very much. Although the game is pretty balanced at the moment, the introduction of fraction specific rules will likely kill it. But for the fanboys and collectors, who cares? It is better that the game does not evolve.
Interesting subjective opinions.
Lord knows no one who plays 40K has more figures than they could field in a standard game.
I just bought a box of Cerastus and my FLGS stocks almost everything for it. Currently I dont play and with the expense of rules & terrain (thats not useable for anything else) I might not. Hopefully with a little break in my 40k budget i can get another box of Cerastus, 2 reavers and 4 warhounds(only models I want to own).
I would also be fine just collecting & painting them.
But just like how they've rolled out necromunda it's not ideal but I guess it could ALWAYS be worse.
wildger wrote: So far, it is a bust. The groups in FB consists of mainly fanboys who are more interested in painting the models than anything else. How can you tell? They have many more models than necessary to field a standard game. In comparison to other GW specialist game, including its original version in 1988, this game can be considered dead in water if not saved by the power of social media like FB. I hope that Titandeath will stir up more interest but, following GW for more than 20 years, I doubt it very much. Although the game is pretty balanced at the moment, the introduction of fraction specific rules will likely kill it. But for the fanboys and collectors, who cares? It is better that the game does not evolve.
Ah yes. That's why there's all those battle reports. Not interested in gaming...yeah right.
Keep on dreaming your fantasy land that ignores evidence to contrary.
wildger wrote: So far, it is a bust. The groups in FB consists of mainly fanboys who are more interested in painting the models than anything else. How can you tell? They have many more models than necessary to field a standard game. In comparison to other GW specialist game, including its original version in 1988, this game can be considered dead in water if not saved by the power of social media like FB. I hope that Titandeath will stir up more interest but, following GW for more than 20 years, I doubt it very much. Although the game is pretty balanced at the moment, the introduction of fraction specific rules will likely kill it. But for the fanboys and collectors, who cares? It is better that the game does not evolve.
Interesting subjective opinions.
Lord knows no one who plays 40K has more figures than they could field in a standard game.
Yeah. Who cares about such things as options. As it is to have every option you can field titan wise you need: 3 warlord, 3 reaver, 4 warhounds. That if you don't use multi maniple games(which I do so I would need even more). That's not accounting for knights.
Also 2 legions is more than justifiable for gaming purposes. A) introducing others b) generally HH age players care about fluff more than 40k players. Loyal vs loyal while can be justifiable is much less sensible than loyal vs traitor. Especially on events. I go to event I can easily take either side depending on what the ratio is with others. Ergo one of both actually serves multiple purposes.
wildger wrote: So far, it is a bust. The groups in FB consists of mainly fanboys who are more interested in painting the models than anything else. How can you tell? They have many more models than necessary to field a standard game. In comparison to other GW specialist game, including its original version in 1988, this game can be considered dead in water if not saved by the power of social media like FB. I hope that Titandeath will stir up more interest but, following GW for more than 20 years, I doubt it very much. Although the game is pretty balanced at the moment, the introduction of fraction specific rules will likely kill it. But for the fanboys and collectors, who cares? It is better that the game does not evolve.
You're also ignoring the fact that online tends to only ever have the most keen and enthusiastic posting heavily? Heck to a poll and you'd likely find many long term Dakka users own many thousands of points of models way above what could ever be used at the same time outside of an apoc game. Many imght even have collections that span decades.
So yes you get people with big collections online; however if people are building big collections it means there's something worth getting in the game itself and a market. I fail to see how a game that sold out of the most expensive boxed set GW ever released almost on the same week it launched - ergo exceeded GW's sales figures - is a dead game. Certianly its not played everywhere like 40K is, but its far from a dead duck.
Plus as you say its got 1 faction with it at present, strong sales on a game that is basically built with 1 army is really impressive! I figure once Chaos and Xenos start to roll out GW will see increased sales of the game from customers who want more variety than just Imperial titans.
Overread wrote: You're also ignoring the fact that online tends to only ever have the most keen and enthusiastic posting heavily? Heck to a poll and you'd likely find many long term Dakka users own many thousands of points of models way above what could ever be used at the same time outside of an apoc game. Many imght even have collections that span decades.
~12200 pts orks(maybe more thanks to codex and some small additions)
5150 pts IG ~3200 pts Knights
Some blood angels as well.
Many players don't just want "2000 and done" type of armies. Options add up points like no time. Above nutty orks isn't even THAT unreasonable. IT didn't have that weird many boyz pre-codex(post-codex too many boyz unless you want to play around different clans) and there's no huge amount of spam of anything. Generally good if I have 2 units like battlewagons. Only stompa's is overrepresented with 2(but hey when you basically get 2nd for free...)
Man, this thread is some weird joke. I can't believe it's seventeen pages long, full of personal anecdotes and no data, with a handful of people who seem incredibly desirous for Adeptus Titanicus to fail for some bizarro reasons.
Personally, for me - it is January 2019 and I just now have had time to start assembling my Grand Master Edition. Last year's summer release schedule was so jam packed, most of the latter half of 2018 for me was playing Middle-earth and Kill Team.
That didn't stop me from buying AT stuff, though - in addition to the GME, I have purchased the Plasma Warlord, Warhounds, 2 sets of Cerastus Knights, and the Reaver, in addition to a couple packs of command terminals and the titan weapon decks, plus the Civitas Sector box and another accessory sprue. Just got my yellow paints that I need to start making them Fureans. Can't wait for the next Reaver and the new book to come out, and look forward to playing against one of the half dozen or so gents I know also bought the game (several of whom are in the same position as myself).
Ah yes. That's why there's all those battle reports. Not interested in gaming...yeah right.
Keep on dreaming your fantasy land that ignores evidence to contrary.
All what battle reports? If I go to a 40k group, I see people talking about upcoming events, recent games, asking about what list they should take, etc. I'm on the AT group and check it almost daily. At least 90% of the content in that group is "here are my painted models/conversions". It's a model showcase group. Nobody ever talks about upcoming events (probably because there aren't many), posts battle reports, or posts lists to be critiqued. I've seen maybe 3 people post about actually playing a game in the last week. Everyone else is just showing off models. I would love to find anyone closer than 3 hours away to play the game with. Somehow I can find games of 40, AoS, WMH, Infinity, Xwing, Star Wars, the Fallout miniatures game, or Blood Bowl within a 20 minute drive. It's not like wargames aren't played here, but AT certainly isn't.
People don't post all that many battle reports for 40K or Fantasy games either and they are far from dead. Battle reports take lots of time and are often a lesser thing.
Heck if we measure battle reports then I'm fairly sure Infinity, SW Armada and Malifaux are 100% dead games.
Ah yes. That's why there's all those battle reports. Not interested in gaming...yeah right.
Keep on dreaming your fantasy land that ignores evidence to contrary.
All what battle reports? If I go to a 40k group, I see people talking about upcoming events, recent games, asking about what list they should take, etc. I'm on the AT group and check it almost daily. At least 90% of the content in that group is "here are my painted models/conversions". It's a model showcase group. Nobody ever talks about upcoming events (probably because there aren't many), posts battle reports, or posts lists to be critiqued. I've seen maybe 3 people post about actually playing a game in the last week. Everyone else is just showing off models. I would love to find anyone closer than 3 hours away to play the game with. Somehow I can find games of 40, AoS, WMH, Infinity, Xwing, Star Wars, the Fallout miniatures game, or Blood Bowl within a 20 minute drive. It's not like wargames aren't played here, but AT certainly isn't.
How many BR's you are expecting? Going for quick check there I found 5 posts of games posted within past 24 hours. Could have checked longer but my internet is seriously slow. Tactics post as well have been there.
Either we aren't in same forum(ADEPTUS TITANICUS 2018) or you aren't really looking at there skipping everything.
For comparison looking at 40k battle reports on this forum...3 battle reports since yesterday. Not too bad for busted game equaling game reports to dakkadakka. Nobody is claiming AT is equally popular to 40k and dakkadakka is "bit" older and as such has "few" more members yet more reports of battles than dakkadakka has for 40k!
Not bad for busted game. If this is GW's level of busted they are in pretty good situation. Clearly even their busted would be huge success for many other companies.
Not to go off-topic with AOS, but like AT, I don't understand why people feel they cannot use their older models with an updated system. I personally don't go as far as tournaments but surely even an offical venue would accept that the models are still official GW products despite their age?
It would look totally ridiculous if someone said "Your Skeletons are not from the current catalogue! Remove yourself from our fair table!"
For Titanicus, so long as you mount that old Warlord Titan to a base the same size and shape as the new one, then who would care? The weapon options are laid out on it's terminal with cards...
So far, there are three classes mentioned which I don’t recognise in terms of example models.
Rapier, described as lighter than a Warhound. Nightgaunt (formerly a sub-class Of Warlord) and Carnivore (no description or historical touchstone)
Add in the Nemesis, and that’s at least four new classes we might expect. Well, five if we include the Warrior class noted but again, not described, in Imperator.
I've seen some people in my store play the game, and the models are often being constructed and painted there (yes I know, personal anecdote). As for myself, it seems interesting and the models look fantastic, but when I've looked inside the rulebook, the game looks like advanced calculus to me. Now, if they did expansions with true Chaos Titans and Knights that could use real Warp powers in addition to the usual firepower, I might be tempted to get into it.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Rapier, described as lighter than a Warhound. Nightgaunt (formerly a sub-class Of Warlord) and Carnivore (no description or historical touchstone)
Add in the Nemesis, and that’s at least four new classes we might expect. Well, five if we include the Warrior class noted but again, not described, in Imperator.
FW has mentioned the Rapier and the Nemesis (though in the latter case they've said it's years away from AT).
So far, there are three classes mentioned which I don’t recognise in terms of example models.
Rapier, described as lighter than a Warhound. Nightgaunt (formerly a sub-class Of Warlord) and Carnivore (no description or historical touchstone)
Add in the Nemesis, and that’s at least four new classes we might expect. Well, five if we include the Warrior class noted but again, not described, in Imperator.
There's some speculation that the Rapier will be the 'unchaosified' version of the old Slaaneshi scout titans.
ArcaneHorror wrote: I've seen some people in my store play the game, and the models are often being constructed and painted there (yes I know, personal anecdote). As for myself, it seems interesting and the models look fantastic, but when I've looked inside the rulebook, the game looks like advanced calculus to me. Now, if they did expansions with true Chaos Titans and Knights that could use real Warp powers in addition to the usual firepower, I might be tempted to get into it.
Don't fret, it is quite intuitive if a tad more admin heavy than other current GW lines. If you watch the guys who play at your store for a while, it should be pretty straightforward to get the hang of it. The game has nice crunch in its mechanics without getting too burdensome, unlike, say, Battletech with its endless modifiers and heat blips. Nice abstraction wedded with the right amount of gritty micromanaging here.
judgedoug wrote: Man, this thread is some weird joke. I can't believe it's seventeen pages long, full of personal anecdotes and no data, with a handful of people who seem incredibly desirous for Adeptus Titanicus to fail for some bizarro reasons.
Personally, for me - it is January 2019 and I just now have had time to start assembling my Grand Master Edition. Last year's summer release schedule was so jam packed, most of the latter half of 2018 for me was playing Middle-earth and Kill Team.
That didn't stop me from buying AT stuff, though - in addition to the GME, I have purchased the Plasma Warlord, Warhounds, 2 sets of Cerastus Knights, and the Reaver, in addition to a couple packs of command terminals and the titan weapon decks, plus the Civitas Sector box and another accessory sprue. Just got my yellow paints that I need to start making them Fureans. Can't wait for the next Reaver and the new book to come out, and look forward to playing against one of the half dozen or so gents I know also bought the game (several of whom are in the same position as myself).
You ever go up to Fredericksburg? I have a friend who lives there and I heard there are a few people who play AT at Your Hobby Place. I'm in Springfield but I go down to Fredericksburg to play Xwing with him.
ArcaneHorror wrote: I've seen some people in my store play the game, and the models are often being constructed and painted there (yes I know, personal anecdote). As for myself, it seems interesting and the models look fantastic, but when I've looked inside the rulebook, the game looks like advanced calculus to me. Now, if they did expansions with true Chaos Titans and Knights that could use real Warp powers in addition to the usual firepower, I might be tempted to get into it.
Can you do 9+6 level of calculations? Yes? Then you will have no trouble with the at rules. It's actually easier than 40k to learn(but harder to master) as it doesn't have exceptions for every unit.
ArcaneHorror wrote: I've seen some people in my store play the game, and the models are often being constructed and painted there (yes I know, personal anecdote). As for myself, it seems interesting and the models look fantastic, but when I've looked inside the rulebook, the game looks like advanced calculus to me. Now, if they did expansions with true Chaos Titans and Knights that could use real Warp powers in addition to the usual firepower, I might be tempted to get into it.
Can you do 9+6 level of calculations? Yes? Then you will have no trouble with the at rules. It's actually easier than 40k to learn(but harder to master) as it doesn't have exceptions for every unit.
Indeed. AT is extremely easy to learn and I love it for that simplicity. Not sure where you live for basic maths to be considered “advanced calculus”.
ArcaneHorror wrote: I've seen some people in my store play the game, and the models are often being constructed and painted there (yes I know, personal anecdote). As for myself, it seems interesting and the models look fantastic, but when I've looked inside the rulebook, the game looks like advanced calculus to me. Now, if they did expansions with true Chaos Titans and Knights that could use real Warp powers in addition to the usual firepower, I might be tempted to get into it.
Can you do 9+6 level of calculations? Yes? Then you will have no trouble with the at rules. It's actually easier than 40k to learn(but harder to master) as it doesn't have exceptions for every unit.
Indeed. AT is extremely easy to learn and I love it for that simplicity. Not sure where you live for basic maths to be considered “advanced calculus”.
It really is a snap, the hardest things to remember for me are the reactor dice modifiers and that blast weapons can't be aimed but hit the target under the hole twice. The reference card that comes with it is really complete though.
Fajita Fan wrote: You ever go up to Fredericksburg? I have a friend who lives there and I heard there are a few people who play AT at Your Hobby Place. I'm in Springfield but I go down to Fredericksburg to play Xwing with him.
Nah, in Richmond there's a fairly huge community of AT players. Couple dozen, I think. Several of the dudes in my Middle-earth and Bolt Action groups also do AT. I've just been so behind on assembly, etc.
I think the biggest difference to get used to with AT compared to other modern GW games is getting in the habit of checking the command terminals often. Especially in larger scale games like 40k or AoS, it's quite easy to make assumptions on unit stats are from memory. In AT units see more subtle changes such as void shield saves or location armour modifiers changing independently.
Moving terminal cards around in line with your units also helps avoid getting mixed up if you have multiples of the same class of titan.
So long as you're doing that the actual rules are really simple to follow.
I really hope that AT will pick up with Titandeath. One of the potential issue is cost. A lot of players feels that buying a single warlord titan for US $110 is too expensive for a single model since you can get a starter set for a lower price in 40K. Many still do not realize that a standard game for AT is going to be around 1250 to 1750 points. A full standard axiom maniple with a set of knights and rulebook set only cost you $325. The cost is lower is you are using warhounds and knights with one reaver. This is way cheaper than 40K.
Knights in 40k remind me very strongly of the original AT Titans, the old beetle-backs, back when they were armed with autocannons and lascannons and whatnot.
On a not-unrelated note, does anyone know any third parties that are selling Lucius-pattern armour plating?
For me personally the game has little appeal do to the scale being different than everything else GW makes. I get why they did that but it means the models have no cross over value and I only get so many games a month. Not being of any use in 40k and being very expensive is killer.
Nurglitch wrote: Knights in 40k remind me very strongly of the original AT Titans, the old beetle-backs, back when they were armed with autocannons and lascannons and whatnot.
On a not-unrelated note, does anyone know any third parties that are selling Lucius-pattern armour plating?
No need to pay anyone, I know a couple of folk are working on making 3D models of plating sized to fit the new Warlord chassis, it'll end up on Thingiverse eventually no doubt, you'll just need access to a printer.
Nurglitch wrote: Knights in 40k remind me very strongly of the original AT Titans, the old beetle-backs, back when they were armed with autocannons and lascannons and whatnot.
On a not-unrelated note, does anyone know any third parties that are selling Lucius-pattern armour plating?
No need to pay anyone, I know a couple of folk are working on making 3D models of plating sized to fit the new Warlord chassis, it'll end up on Thingiverse eventually no doubt, you'll just need access to a printer.
HoundsofDemos wrote: For me personally the game has little appeal do to the scale being different than everything else GW makes. I get why they did that but it means the models have no cross over value and I only get so many games a month. Not being of any use in 40k and being very expensive is killer.
That's what has kept anyone in my area from buying it. If I want to get a game, I will have to provide a maniple for my opponent and run demo games. If the Warlord was the same size as an IK, people could proxy their IK in for AT games, or buy a warlord and use it in 40k games. I'm sure GW did this intentionally, but it has definitely kept people from playing it. The GW manager in my area also said that a lot of people had been interested initially due to the potential to use the models in 40k, but once they realized the sizes of the titans, they lost interest. In other specialist games like Necromunda, you can at least use the models as proxies in kill team or 40k, or use them for D&D. The AT models can really only be used in AT which limits the amount of people that actually have a use for them. I like the models enough I might build a second maniple and try to get a small group together but it's not going to be easy or cheap. If I want to play anything else I just show up with my models and I can find a game.
Hardly intentional. Size of warlord in fluff has been set for looooong time. Epic is 6mm. Therefore size of warlord is pretty obvious...
What? They should have changed scale of game? THAT would have gone happy. People already were pissed off when there was misconception AT was 8mm game thus making titans out of scale for epic miniatures(6mm). Imagine if that HAD been truth...
That's what has kept anyone in my area from buying it. If I want to get a game, I will have to provide a maniple for my opponent and run demo games. If the Warlord was the same size as an IK, people could proxy their IK in for AT games, or buy a warlord and use it in 40k games. I'm sure GW did this intentionally, but it has definitely kept people from playing it. The GW manager in my area also said that a lot of people had been interested initially due to the potential to use the models in 40k, but once they realized the sizes of the titans, they lost interest. In other specialist games like Necromunda, you can at least use the models as proxies in kill team or 40k, or use them for D&D. The AT models can really only be used in AT which limits the amount of people that actually have a use for them. I like the models enough I might build a second maniple and try to get a small group together but it's not going to be easy or cheap. If I want to play anything else I just show up with my models and I can find a game.
If you are just demonstrating the game then you can use open play. You don't have to stick rigidly to the 3-titan maniple minimum, unless playing a more serious game where someone might be practicing for a tournament.
tneva82 wrote: Hardly intentional. Size of warlord in fluff has been set for looooong time. Epic is 6mm. Therefore size of warlord is pretty obvious...
What? They should have changed scale of game? THAT would have gone happy. People already were pissed off when there was misconception AT was 8mm game thus making titans out of scale for epic miniatures(6mm). Imagine if that HAD been truth...
Isn't the new AT stuff much bigger than the older stuff even though they're both "6mm"?
tneva82 wrote: Hardly intentional. Size of warlord in fluff has been set for looooong time. Epic is 6mm. Therefore size of warlord is pretty obvious...
What? They should have changed scale of game? THAT would have gone happy. People already were pissed off when there was misconception AT was 8mm game thus making titans out of scale for epic miniatures(6mm). Imagine if that HAD been truth...
Isn't the new AT stuff much bigger than the older stuff even though they're both "6mm"?
The new Titans are much bigger than the old ones because the old ones were out of scale with the infantry and vehicles. Or the infantry and vehicles were out of scale with the Titans. Depending on your PoV vis a vis relative release dates.
Either way, one of them was the wrong size, so they chose one value, pinned the system scale to that, and are setting everything up to be in scale with each other going forward. And also, completely coincidentally, backwards one generation or so to the Epic vehicles (especially aircraft) Forge World sold previously.
tneva82 wrote: Hardly intentional. Size of warlord in fluff has been set for looooong time. Epic is 6mm. Therefore size of warlord is pretty obvious...
What? They should have changed scale of game? THAT would have gone happy. People already were pissed off when there was misconception AT was 8mm game thus making titans out of scale for epic miniatures(6mm). Imagine if that HAD been truth...
Isn't the new AT stuff much bigger than the older stuff even though they're both "6mm"?
Yes. Old titans were seriously underscaled but if you measure new warlord it's pretty much spot on 32m or so in 6mm scale.
It's now accurately 6mm rather than around 2mm scale old one was
The release of Titanicus wasn't exactly inspiring confidence with a £175 price tag just to get started, and even worse if you bought the pieces separately...
And lets face it, it took 6 months to be able to say "yeah, right, sure its a bust". During that time there have been doubts over the lack of units to field, the futility of the Questoris and of course the uproar over weapon sprues.
However, todays news gives us great confidence regarding the future of the game. Doom of Molech, more Knights'n'Titans incoming, new weapons and buildings. GW still needs to look at the entry point of this game, but otherwise it seems to be going well.
IT might have seen hard sell but it was selling obviously well since warlord was one of their best selling kits of 2018...Nevermind reavers selling out which annoyed me unable to get them right away.
Signs that it was selling hot cakes were out there already in 2018.
tneva82 wrote: IT might have seen hard sell but it was selling obviously well since warlord was one of their best selling kits of 2018...Nevermind reavers selling out which annoyed me unable to get them right away.
Signs that it was selling hot cakes were out there already in 2018.
At that point it was unclear as to whether GW had underproduced or it was genuinely selling. And was it a case of Titan-lovers buying into the models or the general GW audience into the game itself? Of all the items that did not seem to sell out was the rule set.
But being fair I do remember some models selling out on Wayland. When ordering a box of warhounds, shortly after release, they were going even as I put my order in and sold out by that evening. So glad I didn't dally! The Warlord was always in stock, though, and very surprised he outsold the Questoris Knights...considering their adorable size!
Here's the thing even if GW underproduced; selling out of a new release is a major thing. It means that GW's estimations were wrong and if we assume that when they launch something they make an economical number of investments in stock that they think should last a healthy period of time; then it strongly suggests that the game is doing better than planned and thus is even more suitable for long term support.
The only time this would change is if the product were intended to be a one-release event. If AT was a single release with no plans to support it any further then things would be different. However it was, at launch, already a product GW wanted to take into at least the short term of several years if not the medium and long term; so selling out very fast and retaining a high sales rate compared to stock levels is a very strong sign of a healthy product that can last a decent whilte in the market
tneva82 wrote: IT might have seen hard sell but it was selling obviously well since warlord was one of their best selling kits of 2018...Nevermind reavers selling out which annoyed me unable to get them right away.
Signs that it was selling hot cakes were out there already in 2018.
At that point it was unclear as to whether GW had underproduced or it was genuinely selling. And was it a case of Titan-lovers buying into the models or the general GW audience into the game itself? Of all the items that did not seem to sell out was the rule set.
But being fair I do remember some models selling out on Wayland. When ordering a box of warhounds, shortly after release, they were going even as I put my order in and sold out by that evening. So glad I didn't dally! The Warlord was always in stock, though, and very surprised he outsold the Questoris Knights...considering their adorable size!
Umm GW knows how much they sell. And if it was one of their best selling new kits...Well that's still pretty impressive or did they underproduce EVERY well selling new kit? We are talking about it rivaling their 40k releases.
The fact they were one of their top selling new kits and weren't all the time out of stock indicates they were infact well stocked. And if they had low stocks they couldn't BE top selling kits now could they? Can't sell what you don't have. By definition they had to have stock levels comparable to their other top selling lines. If you have 2X stock in one compared to other of course the other is going to have bigger sales UNLESS the 2X stocked undersells...
Monsiuer Cliquebaít, the OP, posted this really shortly after the release.
The opening posters history of starting doom'n'gloom threads aside, it really doesn't change the doubt felt at the time of release. I personally was more positive about AT, but the general opinion of the game - putting it bluntly - was that it was too expensive, lacking units to field and too unfamilar for the modern GW audience where they couldn't use models in other games.
Oh, and another tidbit from the Titanicus seminar. A number of the Transfer sheets, Command Slates and card packs are appearing as either No Longer Available or have disappeared completely from the online store. This isn't because they've stopped doing them, on the contrary. It's because there has been so much demand that they've massively oversold what they were expecting - Andy Hoare gave the comparison of having a projected years worth of stock and having it sell within a month. They're working on getting more in stock ASAP.
The opening posters history of starting doom'n'gloom threads aside, it really doesn't change the doubt felt at the time of release. I personally was more positive about AT, but the general opinion of the game - putting it bluntly - was that it was too expensive, lacking units to field and too unfamilar for the modern GW audience where they couldn't use models in other games.
Not sure why you have that opinion. Apart from the lure of Titans, there was a lot of excitement from the veteran Epic crowd. A lot of that market hadn't touched GW in some time and (anecdotally, obviously) there were a fair few excited people in the various Epic groups and forums that I casually lurk on.
Not sure why you have that opinion. Apart from the lure of Titans, there was a lot of excitement from the veteran Epic crowd. A lot of that market hadn't touched GW in some time and (anecdotally, obviously) there were a fair few excited people in the various Epic groups and forums that I casually lurk on.
Yes, those of us who remember the original epic games( I myself played Space Marine 2nd edition ) were happy to see the return of Titanicus. However, I would be lying if most forums, videos and articles I came across - at the time - were positive. It was negative.
To be honest, its why I am here at all because the main news & rumour thread on Dakka was the first positive feedback I came across. It made a change from all the negative crap I was hearing about the game and could follow the release schedule of the Titanicus range without too much noise about why its a "failure". While the OP was jumping the gun on "total bust" I could not deny that was the general feeling I had encountered before coming to this site...
If you are just demonstrating the game then you can use open play. You don't have to stick rigidly to the 3-titan maniple minimum, unless playing a more serious game where someone might be practicing for a tournament.
For demo games I use two Reavers a side. I've yet to actually use the Maniple rules in any games I've played anyway. I'm looking forward to using them, but I've not felt the games I've played to be "incomplete" without them.
If you are just demonstrating the game then you can use open play. You don't have to stick rigidly to the 3-titan maniple minimum, unless playing a more serious game where someone might be practicing for a tournament.
For demo games I use two Reavers a side. I've yet to actually use the Maniple rules in any games I've played anyway. I'm looking forward to using them, but I've not felt the games I've played to be "incomplete" without them.
Then again something like reaver+2 warhounds is also nice giving 2 different type of titans to try. Or 2 of both.
DIdn't GW just make this game to protect their IP? Restart the clock so to speak. If it sells = they make more. If not = they stop producing it for 15 years and reboot again.
FeindusMaximus wrote: DIdn't GW just make this game to protect their IP? Restart the clock so to speak. If it sells = they make more. If not = they stop producing it for 15 years and reboot again.
Why would that be the case? They aren't licensing that particular IP from anyone. For LotR, that might be a consideration.
...no? The product is a clearly well thought out labor of love from its designers and the IP is and always has been theirs without any contest? The claim is simply ridiculous.
With news that the GME box will be returning, I am wondering if it is considered a decent way in to playing AT? What are the savings on the box?
I have a pair of Warhounds, a Reaver and a Warlord already (just for fun), but I would love to grab the rules and a mirror force for some beginner games with a couple of friends.
Eiríkr wrote: With news that the GME box will be returning, I am wondering if it is considered a decent way in to playing AT? What are the savings on the box?
The original GME was £175 and contained the Rules, 2 sets of Knight and 2 Warlords - which comes to £205, then there's the Command Terminals, Weapon Cards & terrain on top. Some people feel that Reavers would have been a better choice over Warlords.
WarCom says that "the Adeptus Titanicus Warlord Edition is coming back for a second run" (along with a picture of the GME box), so either WarCom got the name wrong or it's a slightly different box this time round.
GME saves one Warlord or terrain, which way you prefer, and gives you all the stuff you need. Add a box of Warhounds and a Reaver and you're good to go. If it is still available, the four titan box & rules is the best way to start, but GME is decent too.
If you are just demonstrating the game then you can use open play. You don't have to stick rigidly to the 3-titan maniple minimum, unless playing a more serious game where someone might be practicing for a tournament.
For demo games I use two Reavers a side. I've yet to actually use the Maniple rules in any games I've played anyway. I'm looking forward to using them, but I've not felt the games I've played to be "incomplete" without them.
Then again something like reaver+2 warhounds is also nice giving 2 different type of titans to try. Or 2 of both.
true, but when I was doing demos, I didn't have my Warhounds painted.
Add in a Battle Maniple set, and you get some flex. A second one, and you’ve pretty much got most Maniples covered.
However, if you’ve already got the rules, GME doesn’t offer anywhere near the same value.
2 maniple boxes AND GME? That's some sick force you are building with 4 warlords Well okay I have those(plus lone boxes) but then again I have 2 legions.
I tried to stop myself from starting AT, but alas...my will is broken and my wallet is trembling. I think I saw someone, in one of the AT threads, mention that a new batch of the GME boxes was planned. Is this confirmed? if we indulge in some rampant speculation (which we never do...*ehum*), when would it be feasible to expect the new batch to hit the stores? Let loose the dogs of guesstimating!
I tried to stop myself from starting AT, but alas...my will is broken and my wallet is trembling. I think I saw someone, in one of the AT threads, mention that a new batch of the GME boxes was planned. Is this confirmed? if we indulge in some rampant speculation (which we never do...*ehum*), when would it be feasible to expect the new batch to hit the stores? Let loose the dogs of guesstimating!
Yes, it was confirmed over the weekend( "The Horus Heresy Weekender" ).
I doubt it will be in the stores, but I'm sure your local will order it in for you.
I wasn't going to plunge any money into the GME however I deeply regretted not getting the Battlegroup last xmas... The more I thought about it the worst it felt! Out of curiosity I was browsing a store online and opened a couple of tabs from various systems, thinking about what new toys I'd buy to stack on top of all the unpainted armies I already have (marines, primaris, GSC, orks, DE, skitarii, IK, that silly shadowspear box that I didn't fancy that much buf oh well) and found that they had some battlegroups available! Oh joy! Bought two... Figure that by the time I'll have them painted I'd buy the new rulebook (probably AT 3 or 4). Don't regret it, though my wallet hates me even more and I pray that my wife doesn't find out!
So, suggestions on starting out?
Note: I'm selling two warhounds and I'm gifting one of the warlords...
So you have 2 warlords, 2 reavers and 4 warhounds? Not sure how useful it is actually to sell stuff from those as all those can be easily used. Albeit if you don't mind having variety in games it's allright. But with 2 battle boxes worth you have most of maniples covered. Venator with reaver and 4 warhounds? Check. Regalia? 2 warlords, 3 warhounds, check. Axiom checks out at full. Myrmidon lacks just 3rd warlord, no biggie. Corsair maniple(3-5 reavers) is out but you can live with that. Lupercall you have 4/5 of warhouns.
But for future additions since you are selling warlord guess buying the plasma warlord full kit is out of question so one sprue at least. Ditto for reaver sprue(or buy the melta reaver box for 3rd reaver).
You definitely want to keep the two Reavers, mainly because their weapons are a pain in the ass to match up due to the melee weapons. You'll have two identical weapon sprues so you can set them up for both sides.
Thing to remember about this game is the extra cost of terminals and weapon cards. If you want to expand beyond the ruleset then chances are you'll need more terminals and cards for extra titans. For example, there are not enough cards for the Reavers and Warhounds to arm two of the same weapon.
Knights are awesome in this respect because they only need their command terminal, which you can easily make additional ones out of foam board as you only need one damage track and enough room to place your order dice and numerical token. This has the additional benefit of taking up less space.
tneva82 is right though - consider keeping all of your titans because you have a lot of options to chose from. You could instead just consider scenery, even the Warcradle stuff is pretty good.
The two reasons I'm selling 2 of the warhounds is that, first of all, I told myself I'd only get a second set if I minimized the money loss. Getting Shadowspear and two Titanicus boxes in the same month is quite the money sink, I feel like I must make a concession at least.
Secondly, I'm selling them to someone who is very active in the 40k local community (though he plans to use them as AdMech). However if he has the titans, he can play AT, so I actually have someone to play against
(also I'm selling them for nearly their discounted price, so if I ever need to buy two more I won't feel that bad paying "regular prices").
The Warlord from the 2nd set will be a gift to my daughter's godfather. That way he'll also have to play the game - it's easier to consider getting into AT if you already have the most expensive miniature available, meaning you only need to buy a reaver, or some warhounds, or those lovely Knights and that equates to a lot less money spent. I do feel like a cheapskate for not buying the kit with box and all but hey, something's gotta give.
Yes, I'm a scheming bastard
I'm still getting up to the maniples part, I assumed that since the GME came with 2 warlords and the knights that those would be a valid way to play? Do I need to make a maniple to play the game or is that only for some bonus?
Also thought that I could just buy the rules next month or something, and I'd be set. But you think I'll need more terminals?
@tneva82 for the price of the plasma sprue alone I'd rather just get the warlord that comes with it by default, if it was up to 20 I could "eat" it but being around 35 from GW I'd rather bite the bullet and get the full kit for, like, 60 or so.
Also, I was thinking about getting a couple of Civitas Imperialis, looks like a fun but expensive kit, so I'll also check Warcradle.
Depending on how it goes I'll either finally start playing a wargame, or at worse I'll have some more expensive miniatures that I can enjoy painting (eventually).
Maniples provide bonuses yes and for matched play 1 is minimum. Of course you can agree with opponents but another thing is they ensure you have reasonable number of moving parts. 1 or 2 titan per side is rather limited and for example the GME box is not very good intro game forces. 1 warlord duking it out have trouble causing any damage to each other due to shield/repair interaction so it will be basically who gets lucky. However once you add up moving elements(ie titans) into the mix strategy and tactics come into play.
Games rarely are all that interesting with bare minimum.
3 titans per side starts to give you good view of all the potential. 4 to 6 with some knights I find is normal.
edit: To further illustrate why 1 vs 1 is so bad for game. 2 warlords from GME duking it out. While shields down strenght is irrelevant so volcano's are bad usage due to drain. So fire up missiles. 10 shots hitting on 3+. Let's say you roll 7 hits. Opponent likely pushed shields to get reroll 1's so you get average of 1,1666666 2's(shield down) and another 1,166666 rerolls which adds up to 0,7777769555556 more shields or total of 2 shields. Yey! Except you need 5. And you still save on 3+.
Next round you can repair them. 4 rolls needing 5+ so you get 1.33333 back. With emergency repair order you can get them on 4+ and then another set at 5+ so you average 3.33333 shields repaired.
See where this is heading? Sure sooner or later somebody whiffs shields and is toasted but that's long slog and it's not visually even interesting seeing 2 warlords basically sitting up. They are too slow to really go much anywhere and doing so will mean you will get vaporized by the other. Not like you even need to get anywhere!
But add more titans and things get more interesting...Can't rely on shields like that anymore, reactor becomes more of issue, moving comes to play...
The GME uses open play and illustrates the two basic units of the game and how they work together...
Unfortunately the units were at such extremes where the Knights were screwed if the opposing Warlord caught whiff of them. And given the included terrain the Warlord coud spot them no problem due to his towering height. I've not fielded Warlords, but quite a few battle reports for the GME basically resulted in the Knights - on both sides - being eliminated by the end of the second round. Essentially you are back to the Warlords just slugging it out for the remaining rounds.
A more reasonable battle would be a Warhound and a Banner . The banners usually last longer, making for a more interesting game, as the Warhound is much shorter and not sporting a nasty carapace weapon.
Titanicus is more satisfying when you field two different armies. The two set ups my brother and I usually play are...
...which usually result in "what the hell is his next move going to be?" instead of "which one of us is going to roll unlucky first?". A well designed board will also keep both sides guessing...
As for terrain, you could get the Warcradle Dark Assembly "Factory" and "City" packs. They are more unique than the GW kit, cheaper and have a similar theme.
but I suspect too many of you young 'uns might get confused. 
