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Yup, doing great. Regular gaming going around here, very glad to see SG department getting more resources.

tneva82 wrote:
Yes. It sells pretty well. Indeed warlord and reaver titans seems to be some of the best selling releases this year.

Far from bust. Success of sg games has led increased staff and resources.

It might sell very well, but I have been unable to find a game with anyone in all of South Florida. I can find a game of AoS, Kill Team, 30k, 40k, Necromunda, Blood Bowl, Warmahordes, Infinity, even BFG. I cannot find a single person that actually plays AT18. I asked the owner of my FLGS, they said one person ordered a couple kits but nobody else has bought AT boxes of any kind and they've never seen a game played there. My Warhammer store said several people were interested but nobody has pulled the trigger yet. I've posted in local Facebook groups from Ft Myers to Miami to Boca Raton and nobody plays it. I asked my friend at the Warhammer store in Alabama I used to frequent, nobody plays it there. Same story at both FLGS I went to there. I asked at the Warhammer store near my parents' house in Ohio, nobody plays it there. Same story at an FLGS in Columbus. It might sell well on a global scale but in the largest cities in 3 different states I can't find a single person that has bought AT, ever played a game, or ever even witnessed someone else playing a game.

Nobody at my lgs bought it either, knight renegade box for 40k seems to do great though. I think this game may have done better in europe but it just tanked here in the states? Then again I don't know anyone around me who plays specialist games of any kind.

 zedmeister wrote:

Pancakey wrote:
Anyone seeing this game pick up steam yet?

Oh it's doing great guns. From the vigilus weekender:

Due to the success of all the Specialist Games (the Warlord and Reaver have been two of the most successful kits produced by GW this year) there are plans to increase the size of the Specialist Games team both in designers and rules writers. This will lead to an increased production capability that means that Battlefleet will eventually be worked on but not in the near future.

So, disappointing news but that can be tempered against the idea that the department is expanding and doing very well - possibly better than expected.

Full details here: http://heresy30k.invisionzone.com/topic/11846-penddraigs-summary-of-the-vigilus-open-day/

Yet somehow, Kirby in his wisdom thought he should kill off specialist games. What a twit.

Yeah Kirby was killing the company with hubris. Still that culture is there. But I think the ship (shop) is turning.

 Toofast wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Yes. It sells pretty well. Indeed warlord and reaver titans seems to be some of the best selling releases this year.

Far from bust. Success of sg games has led increased staff and resources.

It might sell very well, but I have been unable to find a game with anyone in all of South Florida. I can find a game of AoS, Kill Team, 30k, 40k, Necromunda, Blood Bowl, Warmahordes, Infinity, even BFG. I cannot find a single person that actually plays AT18. I asked the owner of my FLGS, they said one person ordered a couple kits but nobody else has bought AT boxes of any kind and they've never seen a game played there. My Warhammer store said several people were interested but nobody has pulled the trigger yet. I've posted in local Facebook groups from Ft Myers to Miami to Boca Raton and nobody plays it. I asked my friend at the Warhammer store in Alabama I used to frequent, nobody plays it there. Same story at both FLGS I went to there. I asked at the Warhammer store near my parents' house in Ohio, nobody plays it there. Same story at an FLGS in Columbus. It might sell well on a global scale but in the largest cities in 3 different states I can't find a single person that has bought AT, ever played a game, or ever even witnessed someone else playing a game.

There's a bunch [what's a bunch?] of us in the northern VA area with it but that doesn't help you.

 doktor_g wrote:
Yeah Kirby was killing the company with hubris. Still that culture is there. But I think the ship (shop) is turning.

I think Kirby just had an eye for bigger profit gains and didn't want products that ticked over or hung on in there. Ergo I think he was chasing golden eggs. Which for a time worked, but steadily meant cutting weaker titles from the roster. I think the haphazard way GW updated many things at the time also meant niche games got ignored for too long, which meant to update them and make them a stronger seller required a bigger investment in one big lump sum.

I think one of the biggest changes internally for GW and FW has been dedicated teams on projects. Even if team members are shared around, it means X game gets a specific slot of time and money allocated to it. I think that should mean that gaps we've had before when products were ignored, should be significantly reduced and that GW doesn't have to turn around and invest big time to bring things back - because now the dedicated slot and time is already budgeted for.

We can see how GW is teasing things out; smaller investments that deliver a product (es pfor specialist games) in stages. Letting GW test the waters, use profits from sales to bolster the team and also leaves them the option to either change direction or abandon without a huge backlash. Take Necromunda, they could have stopped at any point with releases and it would have been "complete and functional" with what they had out there. Had it failed they could have stopped after gang war release and the models were out; the factions playable. Nothing much left hanging save for FW releases.

We see it with AT in how they tease out command modules for new titan classes.

Of course GW doing all thus has resulted in a huge golden egg of sales. However I think the ground work they've got in place now is how they plan to go forward once they are past this extreme sales peak period. Of course restoration of their market and customer interaction means tht future big releases will likely go down even better. So by not chasing the golden egg they actually have and gotten bigger ones!

The Warlord is smaller than a Knight yet costs more.

The game is prohibitively expensive, and that was before they released 2 Lancer Knights for AUD$25 each.

 Toofast wrote:
It might sell very well, but I have been unable to find a game with anyone in all of South Florida. I can find a game of AoS, Kill Team, 30k, 40k, Necromunda, Blood Bowl, Warmahordes, Infinity, even BFG. I cannot find a single person that actually plays AT18. I asked the owner of my FLGS, they said one person ordered a couple kits but nobody else has bought AT boxes of any kind and they've never seen a game played there. My Warhammer store said several people were interested but nobody has pulled the trigger yet. I've posted in local Facebook groups from Ft Myers to Miami to Boca Raton and nobody plays it. I asked my friend at the Warhammer store in Alabama I used to frequent, nobody plays it there. Same story at both FLGS I went to there. I asked at the Warhammer store near my parents' house in Ohio, nobody plays it there. Same story at an FLGS in Columbus. It might sell well on a global scale but in the largest cities in 3 different states I can't find a single person that has bought AT, ever played a game, or ever even witnessed someone else playing a game.

Not to be snarky, but if you want to play and no one else in the area does, start a group yourself.

One GM box is enough for two people to dip their toes into the waters of AT18 - get the names of the interested people from those store managers - and once others see it on the table (it has excellent "Gee-Whiz" appeal), I'm sure you'll build a small community in no time.

Out of my local gaming group, surrounding area and 3 games clubs i know 2 people that play and that's it

For everyone looking for players, the AT Facebook group has created a player map where you can put yourself: https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=1qg8goLa5od0eKuDo4CbDaez8_tBAmKJ-

Half a dozen players at my club, half a dozen more at a club nearby. Plans underway to run some joint events. Store support has been nil but who needs bricks and mortar anyway, it's 2018 dammit

 schoon wrote:

 Toofast wrote:
It might sell very well, but I have been unable to find a game with anyone in all of South Florida. I can find a game of AoS, Kill Team, 30k, 40k, Necromunda, Blood Bowl, Warmahordes, Infinity, even BFG. I cannot find a single person that actually plays AT18. I asked the owner of my FLGS, they said one person ordered a couple kits but nobody else has bought AT boxes of any kind and they've never seen a game played there. My Warhammer store said several people were interested but nobody has pulled the trigger yet. I've posted in local Facebook groups from Ft Myers to Miami to Boca Raton and nobody plays it. I asked my friend at the Warhammer store in Alabama I used to frequent, nobody plays it there. Same story at both FLGS I went to there. I asked at the Warhammer store near my parents' house in Ohio, nobody plays it there. Same story at an FLGS in Columbus. It might sell well on a global scale but in the largest cities in 3 different states I can't find a single person that has bought AT, ever played a game, or ever even witnessed someone else playing a game.

Not to be snarky, but if you want to play and no one else in the area does, start a group yourself.

One GM box is enough for two people to dip their toes into the waters of AT18 - get the names of the interested people from those store managers - and once others see it on the table (it has excellent "Gee-Whiz" appeal), I'm sure you'll build a small community in no time.

If you are really interested in it and you have enough for 2 armies painted, offer to host a few games at your local (advertise on social media and in store and take bookings).

DO NOT buy extra units or anything to get people interested. Just offer what you have as a second army for a few test games (if people are not interested they aren't, if they are remotely they will come in for a test game). If they then like it they will buy themselves.

Regular game here in Stockholm, I just got done some knights and I'm buying the new Titan pack.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
The Warlord is smaller than a Knight yet costs more.

The game is prohibitively expensive, and that was before they released 2 Lancer Knights for AUD$25 each.

Funny you complain about lancers seeing they make building force cheaper than say the other knights. Or warlord. About same with reaver and beaten only by warhounds

 schoon wrote:

 Toofast wrote:
It might sell very well, but I have been unable to find a game with anyone in all of South Florida. I can find a game of AoS, Kill Team, 30k, 40k, Necromunda, Blood Bowl, Warmahordes, Infinity, even BFG. I cannot find a single person that actually plays AT18. I asked the owner of my FLGS, they said one person ordered a couple kits but nobody else has bought AT boxes of any kind and they've never seen a game played there. My Warhammer store said several people were interested but nobody has pulled the trigger yet. I've posted in local Facebook groups from Ft Myers to Miami to Boca Raton and nobody plays it. I asked my friend at the Warhammer store in Alabama I used to frequent, nobody plays it there. Same story at both FLGS I went to there. I asked at the Warhammer store near my parents' house in Ohio, nobody plays it there. Same story at an FLGS in Columbus. It might sell well on a global scale but in the largest cities in 3 different states I can't find a single person that has bought AT, ever played a game, or ever even witnessed someone else playing a game.

Not to be snarky, but if you want to play and no one else in the area does, start a group yourself.

One GM box is enough for two people to dip their toes into the waters of AT18 - get the names of the interested people from those store managers - and once others see it on the table (it has excellent "Gee-Whiz" appeal), I'm sure you'll build a small community in no time.

The only place that had anyone interested was over 1 hour from my house. I'm not going to spend $300, build/paint 2 armies, drive 1hr 15 mins each way, just to sit around hoping for someone to get interested. There are 3 FLGS within 30 minutes of my house with 20-25 people actively playing 40k, Kill Team, and AoS at each one. If even 3 people at any of those stores were interested enough to go half with me on an AT starter, then it would be worth it. However, I have yet to find anyone even remotely interested there.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Spectral Ceramite wrote:

 schoon wrote:

 Toofast wrote:
It might sell very well, but I have been unable to find a game with anyone in all of South Florida. I can find a game of AoS, Kill Team, 30k, 40k, Necromunda, Blood Bowl, Warmahordes, Infinity, even BFG. I cannot find a single person that actually plays AT18. I asked the owner of my FLGS, they said one person ordered a couple kits but nobody else has bought AT boxes of any kind and they've never seen a game played there. My Warhammer store said several people were interested but nobody has pulled the trigger yet. I've posted in local Facebook groups from Ft Myers to Miami to Boca Raton and nobody plays it. I asked my friend at the Warhammer store in Alabama I used to frequent, nobody plays it there. Same story at both FLGS I went to there. I asked at the Warhammer store near my parents' house in Ohio, nobody plays it there. Same story at an FLGS in Columbus. It might sell well on a global scale but in the largest cities in 3 different states I can't find a single person that has bought AT, ever played a game, or ever even witnessed someone else playing a game.

Not to be snarky, but if you want to play and no one else in the area does, start a group yourself.

One GM box is enough for two people to dip their toes into the waters of AT18 - get the names of the interested people from those store managers - and once others see it on the table (it has excellent "Gee-Whiz" appeal), I'm sure you'll build a small community in no time.

If you are really interested in it and you have enough for 2 armies painted, offer to host a few games at your local (advertise on social media and in store and take bookings).

DO NOT buy extra units or anything to get people interested. Just offer what you have as a second army for a few test games (if people are not interested they aren't, if they are remotely they will come in for a test game). If they then like it they will buy themselves.

I have tried advertising on social media, I get a grand total of zero comments of anyone being interested.

It’s a niche within a niche.

Good lord, two threads chewing over Epic? I would never have guessed!

GW made the right choice of a deluxe boxed game and a stand-alone ruleset for the release of the game. But the GM edition gave an impression of a "way over priced starter set" while the stand alone box set raised alarm bells as to the bare minimum requirement of the game.

Its ironic that each product in the game is fair in price, but getting off the starting block is financially challenging compared to other games released by GW. You start adding up the products to get started and it easily goes over £100. The best guess as to the minium of this game was in the August edition of White Dwarf with the battle report - a Warlord Titan with a Reaver or three Knights for support.

We all know this is an expensive hobby and should expect quality to come with a price. However, the entry point into Titanicus is too far removed from its sister games. AT came out 30 years ago, and even with the "40K Titan owners club" supporting the game, GW needs a new generation of players for AT to grow.

My hope for the near future is that GW does release a boxed game for newcomers - that is within £100 - to coincide with the release of the Titandeath expansion( or whatever it is ). That would allow those who have remained on the sidelines an incentive to give the game a try and will encourage the growth of the game's user base.

They just put in discount box. Not likely another comes within month or two

tneva82 wrote:
They just put in discount box. Not likely another comes within month or two

Only GW themselves would be able to shed light on that. For the time being, they have a one-click bundle that includes that boxset and now the "price of entry" is £160, saving £15 from the Grand Master edition.

Making an educated guess...that would be a logical choice for an updated Grand Master box set, with further discount made due to less packaging.

 Toofast wrote:

 schoon wrote:

 Toofast wrote:
It might sell very well, but I have been unable to find a game with anyone in all of South Florida. I can find a game of AoS, Kill Team, 30k, 40k, Necromunda, Blood Bowl, Warmahordes, Infinity, even BFG. I cannot find a single person that actually plays AT18. I asked the owner of my FLGS, they said one person ordered a couple kits but nobody else has bought AT boxes of any kind and they've never seen a game played there. My Warhammer store said several people were interested but nobody has pulled the trigger yet. I've posted in local Facebook groups from Ft Myers to Miami to Boca Raton and nobody plays it. I asked my friend at the Warhammer store in Alabama I used to frequent, nobody plays it there. Same story at both FLGS I went to there. I asked at the Warhammer store near my parents' house in Ohio, nobody plays it there. Same story at an FLGS in Columbus. It might sell well on a global scale but in the largest cities in 3 different states I can't find a single person that has bought AT, ever played a game, or ever even witnessed someone else playing a game.

Not to be snarky, but if you want to play and no one else in the area does, start a group yourself.

One GM box is enough for two people to dip their toes into the waters of AT18 - get the names of the interested people from those store managers - and once others see it on the table (it has excellent "Gee-Whiz" appeal), I'm sure you'll build a small community in no time.

The only place that had anyone interested was over 1 hour from my house. I'm not going to spend $300, build/paint 2 armies, drive 1hr 15 mins each way, just to sit around hoping for someone to get interested. There are 3 FLGS within 30 minutes of my house with 20-25 people actively playing 40k, Kill Team, and AoS at each one. If even 3 people at any of those stores were interested enough to go half with me on an AT starter, then it would be worth it. However, I have yet to find anyone even remotely interested there.

OK, but 40K, Kill Team, and AoS are not AT. So, if you want to play AT and there is not presently a group for it, it's up to you to get it going.

Fact is, most people have exactly the mentality you're expressing here - they want "supported" games that require zero effort to get going, literally just walk into a store/club and point at someone to start playing. If you're not willing to put in more effort for a niche game, how can you expect any of them to? I'm not trying to be rude, but honestly you're not going to get much sympathy on this because a lot of us have been playing these Specialist Games for years in their older forms with zero model support, zero rules support, zero ability to play in GW stores, and have practically become qualified dentists with all the fething teeth we've had to pull to get folk playing them with us

Christ at one point I had to build enough Mordheim warbands to furnish an entire group with models just to overcome that initial resistance to trying anything that isn't the current Big Thing. If you like the game enough, you do what you have to.

Re: Toofast

I would keep in touch with the local stores and put yourself forward as a host for any AT games should others be interested. The game has been slow getting up to speed and the new year might be the opportunity you are looking for. Your local stores might not be familar with the game themselves and maybe on the fence about putting the time in to learning the rules.

If not, they might allow you to paint your Titans there and maybe they will show interest that way - "oh, whats that you're painting?". Then is the time to offer to set up a "Titan duel" just so they can understand the basics of the game.

 Yodhrin wrote:


OK, but 40K, Kill Team, and AoS are not AT. So, if you want to play AT and there is not presently a group for it, it's up to you to get it going.

Fact is, most people have exactly the mentality you're expressing here - they want "supported" games that require zero effort to get going, literally just walk into a store/club and point at someone to start playing. If you're not willing to put in more effort for a niche game, how can you expect any of them to? I'm not trying to be rude, but honestly you're not going to get much sympathy on this because a lot of us have been playing these Specialist Games for years in their older forms with zero model support, zero rules support, zero ability to play in GW stores, and have practically become qualified dentists with all the fething teeth we've had to pull to get folk playing them with us

Christ at one point I had to build enough Mordheim warbands to furnish an entire group with models just to overcome that initial resistance to trying anything that isn't the current Big Thing. If you like the game enough, you do what you have to.

Not really constructive advice. That's: "I once had to walk 10miles threw the snow to get a sandwich" talk (I have been playing GW games for 20-25 or so years and I think that of your post...).

The person has gone to/researched multiple areas to find a game, I am sure they are willing to put in the effort, just they don't know what to do? (It seems to me).

HOW to get closer to what Toofast wants is, or some actual advice:

SamusDrake wrote:
Re: Toofast

I would keep in touch with the local stores and put yourself forward as a host for any AT games should others be interested. The game has been slow getting up to speed and the new year might be the opportunity you are looking for. Your local stores might not be familar with the game themselves and maybe on the fence about putting the time in to learning the rules.

If not, they might allow you to paint your Titans there and maybe they will show interest that way - "oh, whats that you're painting?". Then is the time to offer to set up a "Titan duel" just so they can understand the basics of the game.

Also:

Contact the Local GW store/FLGS and say you are interested in this game and have this army. Can they post it on their FB/social media page (give them photos).
Organise a small skirmish campaign at your local (have a few smaller knights).
Play 40k (other GW games etc) with your locals and talk up how cool you think AT is.
Bring in your army at some popular gaming store times to 'show it off'. If get talking to people offer them a quick game.

Other awesome suggestions, would probably help this person and others, for starting an AT gaming group.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
To be totally transparent.

I think this is the way to get people into a new game (I used a similar strategy to get a few extra into my Necromunda group, my favourite Specialist game).

With AT. It is a hard sell.

It's kinda expensive for initial money cost. I personally am not buying into this game until they produce weapons sprues that are sold separately. Even then, I would want some other race's titans or something else to bring more depth to the game (not in game play but in versatility).

My GW refuses to stock/support it, and they're one of the 3 big stores. The reasoning is "if we don't sell it, we don't generally play it."

That being said, the local big FLGS has a large scene for this game.

 Stormwall wrote:
My GW refuses to stock/support it, and they're one of the 3 big stores. The reasoning is "if we don't sell it, we don't generally play it."

That being said, the local big FLGS has a large scene for this game.

I wait what?
You local GW store run and managed by GW has the attitude of selling that if they don't stock a game you won't play a game - well yeah that makes sense but I fail to see how its helping the store. Surely they WANT you playing and buying the game from them not from the local 3rd party.

It sounds kinda odd and honestly if I had a local GW store manager who refused to stock a game so that local people "wouldn't play it" I'd be sending GW head office a formal letter (ok email) about it.

 Stormwall wrote:
My GW refuses to stock/support it, and they're one of the 3 big stores. The reasoning is "if we don't sell it, we don't generally play it."

That being said, the local big FLGS has a large scene for this game.

I don’t think any GW stocks it other than returns. That said if people try to play in that store and he doesn’t allow it he will be get re-educated should someone complain to customer service. Store managers are responsible for growing sales but that’s some real crap if he’s not allowing it to be played.

"You can order it but, we refuse to stock if if we're not supporting it on our game nights." "We can always order it for you!" Etc x 1000.

In every other regard I think my local GW is perfect. They even stopped that Kirby era crowding of people when they came in the door to get them to buy gak they don't want, that was there in 2014.

Anyways, they don't stock it, because the main games at the GW Store are Killteam (game nights on Fridays,) and of course 40k throughout the week. The excuse is, they've got a large computer order system kiosk you can use to order anything, including specialist games. Concerning playing it, I get mixed answers that I can come in and play it but, only on open game days and only if the table is open and no 40kers want to play at said table, and I've also gotten answers of "we don't support it so don't play it here."

It kinda rubs me raw since it's not a FW game but, a GW game. I go and play it with my buds at their houses or the local huge hobby store north of Stockholm. Also I have no clue who the manager is, they seem to have it set up in "Swedish Consensus," style. IE: They all meet and set policy together as employees, though there does seem to be a minor picking order to how they run. Obviously they have a manager but, I know every employee in the store and I have no clue which one it is to be quite frank.

Other than that, they're the nicest people ever and I love the store tbh. I'm worried since other private retailers are dropping the game that GW proper is trying to trash can this like the did with Epic 40k back in the day.

Like I said no GW store stocks AT due to shelf space but not allowing anyone to play unless the place is deserted is total crap.

If your group that plays at another store offered to play there to show off the game and he tries to push back that’s worth a call to customer service. That would NEVER happen at my GW here.

Eh, it could be a simple miscommunication. I'll see what's up with that in due time.

Spectral Ceramite wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:


OK, but 40K, Kill Team, and AoS are not AT. So, if you want to play AT and there is not presently a group for it, it's up to you to get it going.

Fact is, most people have exactly the mentality you're expressing here - they want "supported" games that require zero effort to get going, literally just walk into a store/club and point at someone to start playing. If you're not willing to put in more effort for a niche game, how can you expect any of them to? I'm not trying to be rude, but honestly you're not going to get much sympathy on this because a lot of us have been playing these Specialist Games for years in their older forms with zero model support, zero rules support, zero ability to play in GW stores, and have practically become qualified dentists with all the fething teeth we've had to pull to get folk playing them with us

Christ at one point I had to build enough Mordheim warbands to furnish an entire group with models just to overcome that initial resistance to trying anything that isn't the current Big Thing. If you like the game enough, you do what you have to.

Not really constructive advice. That's: "I once had to walk 10miles threw the snow to get a sandwich" talk (I have been playing GW games for 20-25 or so years and I think that of your post...).

The person has gone to/researched multiple areas to find a game, I am sure they are willing to put in the effort, just they don't know what to do? (It seems to me).

HOW to get closer to what Toofast wants is, or some actual advice:

They already discounted the advice I would have given out of hand in their previous post - if you want to get a game off the ground badly enough, you put together enough models to run both sides and you go out and get folk to play it with you. You do everything you can think of to make the barrier of entry so low that people realise they're beginning to look obstinate and petulant if they refuse to give it a try, and then you hope some of them get hooked enough to buy-in themselves. If you can't find a local group, and you're not willing to do the extra work required to get a new group off the ground, what can anyone suggest?

It's not about "when I were a lad...", it's just how things are - if a game isn't already popular and you want to play it, you have to do the work to make it take off locally. People who've been playing SGs for a long time know it. People who play non-GW fantasy and sci-fi games know it. If people aren't willing to listen when we relay that experience, eh.