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A new game is a financal risk, and plastic minis are expensive, imagine if they produced a MASSIVE range, with 4 titans from every race even if they went the cheap option and had Chaos and Imperium use the same models you're looking at over 20 unique models. that's a huuuge risk for them. Best to start modest and small and build up over time.
and mirror matches can actually be pretty intreasting if the game has eneugh depth as it tends to require both sides to use tactics and stragety.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/08/30 06:09:07
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
and mirror matches can actually be pretty intreasting if the game has eneugh depth as it tends to require both sides to use tactics and stragety.
The issue I think is people see this AS Mirror Matches.
They don't see this clearly because they have not seen many lists that could be created. Sure it's Imperial on Imperial, yet it's actually more akin to the Maniple and build. Suddenly you could see a duo Venator list with 2 reavers and 4 warhounds in 1500 points vs a Myrmidon backed with Knights, or an Gryphonicus Axiom with 2 Reavers and a Warlord vs another Axiom with Warlord, Reaver and 2 warhounds.
I think I will make 10 that are my favorites and post them tomorrow. I am going to do some pretty interesting things and will even include my Strategem ideas so as to give people an idea of what a single lists depth could entail.
As far as supply goes, you can get a brand new grandmaster edition on the secondary market for less that retail price with shipping. That says a lot as far as demand goes.
I quickly checked both eBay UK and US for the GME prices. In the UK you (I mean you in general) find nothing below £175 while in the US you find 2 listings for less than $290 but … one is for half a GME + 2 reavers for $245 and the other for half a GME at $175 (incidentally the description might not be accurate as it lists "2x Adeptus Titanicus: Civitas Imperialis (half of the terrain)" and the GME contains the equivalent of 2 boxes of civitas imperialis). Best to check and do some math before jumping to conclusions.
Also, if I had bought with a nice discount (hard to get but on day 1 some online retailers were offering up to 25% discount to RRP), I might try to resell it for a profit below the RRP. So a price below RRP is not conclusive in itself.
Beware of scams. Maybe these 2 listings on eBay are genuine but I remember seeing one listing on eBay on the Sunday of the pre-orders weekend. There were 5 available GME for less than $50. It goes without saying they were selling like hot cakes. After 32 boxes were sold (the revisions history showed quantity being modified each time one sold), eBay pulled the listing. The eBay profile selling had not been active for more than a year, with no wargaming items whatsoever in the past. Pretty sure those who bought got disappointed.
Imho, AT is not a bust. It is a great game, very tactical. The models are pure beauties. It is very scalable. Indeed, as it is set in the Horus Heresy, you "only" have 2 factions: loyalists vs. traitors. Various legions with specific traits, more to come in campaign books, and Eldar and Orks can be easily added.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/08/30 07:10:50
Don Savik wrote: I don't care when the 1985 version took place, they should've made it 40k. I don't understand this desire for 30k. Is it just so they can have chaos knights be the same model with a different paint job?
Thing is that when it comes to Titans 30K or 40K basically makes no difference to them. They are warmachines that are basically timeless and whilst their design has evolved over time as everything else from GW has (as new methods, new castings and new art directions come and go), they are, in the story, still pretty much unchanged.
So shifting from 30K to 40K basically means all GW has to do is release a lore book and say "its now all 40K". Likely done alongside adding more Xeno.
The rules for AT are solid - much more maneuver warfare than most other GW games.
If they made a mistake - IMO - it's the model release schedule.
You really need to play with a full titan maniple to take full advantage of the tactics involved, and unless you're willing to proxy, you won't be able to do that till the Warhounds come out in October (?).
schoon wrote: The rules for AT are solid - much more maneuver warfare than most other GW games.
If they made a mistake - IMO - it's the model release schedule.
You really need to play with a full titan maniple to take full advantage of the tactics involved, and unless you're willing to proxy, you won't be able to do that till the Warhounds come out in October (?).
I agree on this. The more I think about it, the more I'm puzzled by the choice of putting two Warlords in the GME box, let alone with two Volcano Cannons each. As it stands it probably won't be until near the end of the year that we'll get to see mixed maniples of Warlords, Reavers and Warhounds with a good variety of loadouts between them. And that's when the game will really start to shine in terms of interesting gameplay and model diversity. I think it would have been more amazing if the game had launched with two Reavers, two Warhounds and two banners of Knights in the GME box.
That said, I did buy in. And I drummed up local support and got five others interested, four of whom have also bought in. I organized an intro game earlier this week and we all had a blast stomping about with our awesome Warlords. Like any new game it needs one or two folks to "pull the cart" and get the momentum going. If no-one is taking up that role, the game will - locally - be a bust.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/08/30 08:58:27
I was straight in with my pre-order. I'm a massive Epic fan of old and no way am I going to pass up the start of a new edition. Gimmie those Titans!
Rules are very simple in an "easy to learn, difficult to master" style. Lots of nice throwbacks to previous Epic editions. And, best of all, my old Epic scenery works nicely with the new Titans
schoon wrote: The rules for AT are solid - much more maneuver warfare than most other GW games.
If they made a mistake - IMO - it's the model release schedule.
You really need to play with a full titan maniple to take full advantage of the tactics involved, and unless you're willing to proxy, you won't be able to do that till the Warhounds come out in October (?).
true this. if you are very rules strict, you cant play narrative or matched games yet cuz they require maniples, and 1 of 3 maniples can at the earliest be made in 1 1/2 weeks.
i get that drip feeding is GWs new thing but it should not be for AT, it should be full maniple model releases with alt weapons.
this game wont be fully playable until moust likely end of october.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/08/30 09:30:08
darkswordminiatures.com
gamersgrass.com
Collects: Wild West Exodus, SW Armada/Legion. Adeptus Titanicus, Dust1947.
schoon wrote: The rules for AT are solid - much more maneuver warfare than most other GW games.
If they made a mistake - IMO - it's the model release schedule.
You really need to play with a full titan maniple to take full advantage of the tactics involved, and unless you're willing to proxy, you won't be able to do that till the Warhounds come out in October (?).
true this. if you are very rules strict, you cant play narrative or matched games yet cuz they require maniples, and 1 of 3 maniples can at the earliest be made in 1 1/2 weeks.
i get that drip feeding is GWs new thing but it should not be for AT, it should be full maniple model releases with alt weapons.
this game wont be fully playable until moust likely end of october.
I think GW/FW is assuming that the first month or two people are going to take it easy and simply focus on learning the game. I have a feeling they really are working on a slow release with december being when the game is "launch complete"
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
No, I haven´t bought it and never will. All people I have spoken to say the same thing: Price is absurd (230 Euros) and content is low. You only have two different unit types in the box. Who thought that this was a good idea? No one in my local area is interested. And the majority of people who bought the box are scalpers anyway. Total failure GW.
Just think how much more value you get when you purchase Necromunda or Blood Bowl for a fraction of AT´s price.
But neither of them comes with a huge dynamic post warlord titan - let alone two of them. The box price is higher but the core units are far bigger and way more imposing on the table.
Overread wrote: But neither of them comes with a huge dynamic post warlord titan - let alone two of them. The box price is higher but the core units are far bigger and way more imposing on the table.
When I glance into my glass cabinet there is a Stompa and two IK ready for action. Today I finish my third IK. These models are more imposing than a AT Warlord model. Most of the members of my community also already own an IK or an equivalent unit for 40K. So you won´t get these guys into playing AT for this reason alone.
I watched gameplay of AT on youtube. I liked the micromanaging aspect of the void shields, plasma reactor, damage control, orders & critical hits. It is nice to know that GW is still capable to write interesting rules for one of their tabletop games. So this game was practically made for me and not for the PS4 generation that demands a dumbed down version of 40K because they can´t memorize a couple of special rules. But the suits in GWHQ are still greedy dimwits, if they think that people will buy their products without checking the price tag. For christ´s sake 230 Euros are 460 DM! No one is going to spend such a high sum of money for a game. And I am very glad that nobody bought in because it shows that people still have some sense left.
But you can buy all the boxed set stuff on its own in separate purchases. That's the thing, there is nothing unique in the box; its just got a high price tag because its got enough of everything to get started in one big go. Much like the Battalion bundles that GW has on their website (which are of similar cost in the hundreds). Sure most don't buy them - they buy a bit here and a bit there.
Also I'd agree there are bigger models - the Warlord to my eye is well sized to allow for the inclusion of BIGGER titans in the game in the future (such as the iconic and imposing Imperator and perhaps other new things from xeno races that we've never seen).
Bought in and brought some fellas down with me, so here we'll be laughing our God-Machine arses off when people think of this game as a bust. Of course it isn't, it sold out like hot cakes and will very likely carry on in the same vein, as it finally allows proper 40k titan clashes without spending your kidneys on Forge World and requiring a table the size of a tennis court. Yes, there were older Epic ones around for that too, but they're not on the same level of quality as modern GW sculpts by any metric (bar perhaps personal aestethic preference).
And really, 200~ euros for a fully functional starting army + rules + terrain isn't an unreasonable amount of money for most people if they like the game. Is it more than one might have liked? Likely. Is it as far over the horizon of acceptable as some people claim? Of course it isn't, people can prioritize their money however they like if they think the game is worth it. Ruleswise, it is.
zerosignal wrote: "No one is going to spend such a high sum of money for a game. And I am very glad that nobody bought in"
You are demonstrably wrong.
If you had taken a moment to read my whole post then you would have understood that I meant my local community and not the rest of the world. I repeat this just for you again:
NO one bought the AT box in MY FLGS and there were even NO demo games in MY area. The local GW also has NOT a single box displayed in the store. Why? The store manager said that nobody has shown any interest in this game.
zerosignal wrote: "No one is going to spend such a high sum of money for a game. And I am very glad that nobody bought in"
You are demonstrably wrong.
If you had taken a moment to read my whole post then you would have understood that I meant my local community and not the rest of the world. I repeat this just for you again:
NO one bought the AT box in MY FLGS and there were even NO demo games in MY area. The local GW also has NOT a single box displayed in the store. Why? The store manager said that nobody has shown any interest in this game.
schoon wrote: The rules for AT are solid - much more maneuver warfare than most other GW games.
If they made a mistake - IMO - it's the model release schedule.
You really need to play with a full titan maniple to take full advantage of the tactics involved, and unless you're willing to proxy, you won't be able to do that till the Warhounds come out in October (?).
true this. if you are very rules strict, you cant play narrative or matched games yet cuz they require maniples, and 1 of 3 maniples can at the earliest be made in 1 1/2 weeks.
i get that drip feeding is GWs new thing but it should not be for AT, it should be full maniple model releases with alt weapons.
this game wont be fully playable until moust likely end of october.
2 of 3 is you play Legio Gryphonicus.
I think the reason GW did it was so that people could absorb the sticker shock instead of having three cheap kits dropped then then $110 model dropped.
The biggest models also sell the least so having them apart of the GME means they are moved quicker and people get to see big stompy robots which, let's be honest here, is a HUGE "Ohhhh what's that" factor compared to smaller stompy robots.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Strg Alt wrote: For christ´s sake 230 Euros are 460 DM! No one is going to spend such a high sum of money for a game. And I am very glad that nobody bought in because it shows that people still have some sense left.
Read your entire post, can I now say you are still demonstrably wrong?
See the issue is you are looking at sticker price, while that is a good idea to judge things it's only one piece of the pie here.
Value is another. In USD I know I am getting a free Warlord titan plus some in a GME set. A. Free. $110. Model
Mind you, you speak of "imposing" that's nice and all but the Warlord was a hell of a lot of fun to build and looks far better to me than those knights. The knights are just... Boring.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/08/30 13:40:28
Overread wrote: But you can buy all the boxed set stuff on its own in separate purchases. That's the thing, there is nothing unique in the box; its just got a high price tag because its got enough of everything to get started in one big go. Much like the Battalion bundles that GW has on their website (which are of similar cost in the hundreds). Sure most don't buy them - they buy a bit here and a bit there.
Also I'd agree there are bigger models - the Warlord to my eye is well sized to allow for the inclusion of BIGGER titans in the game in the future (such as the iconic and imposing Imperator and perhaps other new things from xeno races that we've never seen).
I just checked the GW homepage for the AT stuff. The rules package for 45 Euros looks promising because I started a while ago to write my own homebrew rules for IK:R. Stuff like damage control, plasma reactor management and machine spirits interfering with your orders could definitely spice up my game. So thank you for the tip.
But to sell the city skyscrapers for 100 Euros is just plain stupid. Just go to your home improvement store and build the terrain by yourself. You will be surprised how much money you can save. I also don´t see the value of a Warlord costing 85 Euros while a Gorkanaut which is bigger and wider has the same price tag attached to it. The former doesn´t even have weapon options and is stuck with it´s loadout until FW gives you the opportunity to spend even more many for a sensible Titan armament. Jesus Chrysler!
Strg Alt wrote: For christ´s sake 230 Euros are 460 DM! No one is going to spend such a high sum of money for a game. And I am very glad that nobody bought in because it shows that people still have some sense left.
Many retailers sold out their stock of GME boxes on the first day. I have half a dozen people in my direct area who purchased a set.
The only thing no-one does is calculate Euros back to old money. It's 2018 for Christ's sake.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/08/30 13:56:35
schoon wrote: The rules for AT are solid - much more maneuver warfare than most other GW games.
If they made a mistake - IMO - it's the model release schedule.
You really need to play with a full titan maniple to take full advantage of the tactics involved, and unless you're willing to proxy, you won't be able to do that till the Warhounds come out in October (?).
true this. if you are very rules strict, you cant play narrative or matched games yet cuz they require maniples, and 1 of 3 maniples can at the earliest be made in 1 1/2 weeks.
i get that drip feeding is GWs new thing but it should not be for AT, it should be full maniple model releases with alt weapons.
this game wont be fully playable until moust likely end of october.
2 of 3 is you play Legio Gryphonicus.
I think the reason GW did it was so that people could absorb the sticker shock instead of having three cheap kits dropped then then $110 model dropped.
The biggest models also sell the least so having them apart of the GME means they are moved quicker and people get to see big stompy robots which, let's be honest here, is a HUGE "Ohhhh what's that" factor compared to smaller stompy robots.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Strg Alt wrote: For christ´s sake 230 Euros are 460 DM! No one is going to spend such a high sum of money for a game. And I am very glad that nobody bought in because it shows that people still have some sense left.
Read your entire post, can I now say you are still demonstrably wrong?
See the issue is you are looking at sticker price, while that is a good idea to judge things it's only one piece of the pie here.
Value is another. In USD I know I am getting a free Warlord titan plus some in a GME set. A. Free. $110. Model
Mind you, you speak of "imposing" that's nice and all but the Warlord was a hell of a lot of fun to build and looks far better to me than those knights. The knights are just... Boring.
You cannot argue over taste. You don´t like the Knights and had tons of fun building the Titan. That´s fine. I am happy for you that you enjoy the hobby and support one of GW´s specialist games despite the costs. If we are lucky we might even see Gargants & Phantom Titans in the future.
Strg Alt wrote: For christ´s sake 230 Euros are 460 DM! No one is going to spend such a high sum of money for a game. And I am very glad that nobody bought in because it shows that people still have some sense left.
Many retailers sold out their stock of GME boxes on the first day. I have half a dozen people in my direct area who purchased a set.
The only thing no-one does is calculate Euros back to old money.
Believe me your wallet will thank you for it, if you do.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/08/30 13:58:16
Strg Alt wrote: For christ´s sake 230 Euros are 460 DM! No one is going to spend such a high sum of money for a game. And I am very glad that nobody bought in because it shows that people still have some sense left.
Many retailers sold out their stock of GME boxes on the first day. I have half a dozen people in my direct area who purchased a set.
The only thing no-one does is calculate Euros back to old money.
Believe me your wallet will thank you for it, if you do.
Life's too short, man. It's been sixteen years.
Reading this thread confirms my suspicions that AT only does well in areas where there has been some grassroots push to get people interested. If no-one in an area is excited enough to be that firestarter, nothing's going to happen. That's fair enough. I find it interesting that there are such big regional variations in uptake though, even ones with well-established and large wargaming communities.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/08/30 14:14:09
schoon wrote: The rules for AT are solid - much more maneuver warfare than most other GW games.
If they made a mistake - IMO - it's the model release schedule.
You really need to play with a full titan maniple to take full advantage of the tactics involved, and unless you're willing to proxy, you won't be able to do that till the Warhounds come out in October (?).
true this. if you are very rules strict, you cant play narrative or matched games yet cuz they require maniples, and 1 of 3 maniples can at the earliest be made in 1 1/2 weeks.
i get that drip feeding is GWs new thing but it should not be for AT, it should be full maniple model releases with alt weapons.
this game wont be fully playable until moust likely end of october.
2 of 3 is you play Legio Gryphonicus.
I think the reason GW did it was so that people could absorb the sticker shock instead of having three cheap kits dropped then then $110 model dropped.
The biggest models also sell the least so having them apart of the GME means they are moved quicker and people get to see big stompy robots which, let's be honest here, is a HUGE "Ohhhh what's that" factor compared to smaller stompy robots.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Strg Alt wrote: For christ´s sake 230 Euros are 460 DM! No one is going to spend such a high sum of money for a game. And I am very glad that nobody bought in because it shows that people still have some sense left.
Read your entire post, can I now say you are still demonstrably wrong?
See the issue is you are looking at sticker price, while that is a good idea to judge things it's only one piece of the pie here.
Value is another. In USD I know I am getting a free Warlord titan plus some in a GME set. A. Free. $110. Model
Mind you, you speak of "imposing" that's nice and all but the Warlord was a hell of a lot of fun to build and looks far better to me than those knights. The knights are just... Boring.
You cannot argue over taste. You don´t like the Knights and had tons of fun building the Titan. That´s fine. I am happy for you that you enjoy the hobby and support one of GW´s specialist games despite the costs. If we are lucky we might even see Gargants & Phantom Titans in the future.
I dont understand what you mean by costs. I have a tournament capable army for $350 usd. Can you have a tournament ready army in 40k for that?
Hell I could EASILY ditch the GME box, grab a Reaver pack coming out next week, a rules pack, and when the warhounds come out two sets of those and likely spend LESS than a GME box. . . That would STILL give me a tournament ready army with a lot of built in fun and design. Hmmm Might need the warhound cards and the Venator terminal pack so over a GME in the end and yet. . . far more than enough to play the game.
The warlords were a blast. More pieces per model than the Knights, amazing detail, and a breeze to paint.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/08/30 14:09:31
ValentineGames wrote: No I bloody didn't. And from what I've seen of the full shelves in stores not many people did.
Your loss. Great game. Lots of potential and fun.
No it really isn't my loss at all. Not even in the slightest.
If you can't afford something you're losing nothing.
I also don't want to spend stupid amounts of money on a model you can only build in 1 set manner in an era where plastic allows huge variety.
That's just moronic.
£65 for 1 model walking monkey in 1 set load out for an already dead system, when I can buy 3 28mm tanks for £40-50 with 8 variants each with hundreds of systems to play in.
Yeah...I'm REALLY losing out so much...
Strg Alt wrote: For christ´s sake 230 Euros are 460 DM! No one is going to spend such a high sum of money for a game. And I am very glad that nobody bought in because it shows that people still have some sense left.
Many retailers sold out their stock of GME boxes on the first day. I have half a dozen people in my direct area who purchased a set.
The only thing no-one does is calculate Euros back to old money.
Believe me your wallet will thank you for it, if you do.
Life's too short, man. It's been sixteen years.
Reading this thread confirms my suspicions that AT only does well in areas where there has been some grassroots push to get people interested. Ff no-one in an area is excited enough to be that firestarter, nothing's going to happen. That's fair enough. I find it interesting that there are such big regional variations in uptake though, even ones with well-established and large wargaming communities.
Possibly. I wanted the game because I never got to play AT and this looked fun. It helps that the models look better than knights and the Battle reports that are out right now speak of the game as Walking battleships and I am HUGE sucker for naval style games.
ValentineGames wrote: No I bloody didn't. And from what I've seen of the full shelves in stores not many people did.
Your loss. Great game. Lots of potential and fun.
No it really isn't my loss at all. Not even in the slightest.
If you can't afford something you're losing nothing.
I also don't want to spend stupid amounts of money on a model you can only build in 1 set manner in an era where plastic allows huge variety.
That's just moronic.
£65 for 1 model walking monkey in 1 set load out for an already dead system, when I can buy 3 28mm tanks for £40-50 with 8 variants each with hundreds of systems to play in.
Yeah...I'm REALLY losing out so much...
BITTER! So much bitter.
And you can only use 40k knights in?
You can only use 40k Warlords in?
You can only use 40k Banblades in?
Congrats for ignorance and plain outrage. You almost deserve an award.
I could care less of what your opinion is but to say the game is already dead. Not only is that ignorant but idiotic to the nth degree.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/08/30 14:28:36
And you can only use 40k knights in?
You can only use 40k Warlords in?
You can only use 40k Banblades in?
You can use them in many systems...not just 40k But what has that got to do with limited loadout options for a £65 plastic model in an age where options are limitless???
You didn't address that.
Sorry to piss on the fanboy corn flakes.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/08/30 14:42:12
I also find it interesting that people who don't like the game seem to be very angry about all the money they're not spending on it. Is this what the proletariat does all day?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/08/30 14:43:35
ValentineGames wrote: No I bloody didn't. And from what I've seen of the full shelves in stores not many people did.
Your loss. Great game. Lots of potential and fun.
No it really isn't my loss at all. Not even in the slightest.
If you can't afford something you're losing nothing.
I also don't want to spend stupid amounts of money on a model you can only build in 1 set manner in an era where plastic allows huge variety.
That's just moronic.
£65 for 1 model walking monkey in 1 set load out for an already dead system, when I can buy 3 28mm tanks for £40-50 with 8 variants each with hundreds of systems to play in.
Yeah...I'm REALLY losing out so much...
What is this insane jibber jabber? A model walking monkey?
Oh well. Your loss.
Anyway. I think the biggest barrier to AT will purely be that it's competing with 40k. The same people who might buy AT might also look at what they could buy for their favourite army instead and think... "nah, I will stick with the system I've already invested in."
I'm fairly sure it's going to be a supported range for a couple of years though, and when people realise you can get a fairly competitive force for a lot cheaper than 40k, new players will join. Reavers and Warhounds will help.
TO of Death Before Dishonour - A Warhammer 40k Tournament with a focus on great battles between well painted, thematic armies on tables with full terrain.
