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 Stormwall wrote:
Eh, it could be a simple miscommunication. I'll see what's up with that in due time.

I can understand them not stocking it and allowing you to order, that's fine. But stopping you from playing and not letting the game establish itself in their store sounds all kinds of wrong. GW are clearly enthusiastic and supporting the game otherwise they'd not be releasing new stuff for it. Plus they pretty much sold out of all the commander sets on launch day - the expensive super high price starter that was a big sticker shock on cost sold out.

So I think AT is here to stay for a decent while. I think your store needs to get a reminder that its not just 40K and AoS in the world and that specialist games are games too. Esp as they are a GW store and should be promoting ALL the games that GW produces, not cherry picking favourites.


I wonder if its because any game ordered through the ordering computer doesn't generate sales data for the store and their sales are only recorded by stock actually stocked and sold on site - that would at least give them a reason not to encourage a game that they cannot physically stock. but its short sighted because I'm sure if the game took off locally they'd be allowed to hold stock for it locally. Plus if people like you are leaving to go to another competing store then, whilst GW central still gets its profits, the local GW isn't getting the profit it could be making by turning customers like you away (even though you can order it through them they are not encouraging you to play at all)

 Stormwall wrote:
My GW refuses to stock/support it, and they're one of the 3 big stores. The reasoning is "if we don't sell it, we don't generally play it."

That being said, the local big FLGS has a large scene for this game.

If GW aren't supporting their own game...how can they expect you to?

Surely there are some GW stores stocking and playing AT?

 Fajita Fan wrote:
Like I said no GW store stocks AT due to shelf space but not allowing anyone to play unless the place is deserted is total crap.

If your group that plays at another store offered to play there to show off the game and he tries to push back that’s worth a call to customer service. That would NEVER happen at my GW here.

It blows my mind that they would release a new specialist game and then not stock it in stores. How do they expect anyone to start playing the game if they don't stock or support it at their own stores?

I continue to see Adeptus Titanicus maligned online as a "niche within a niche" with startups costs that are too high for anyone to be expected to play it.

This forum might be like preaching to the choir, but I feel like the game just didn't get a proper starter set. When we were eagerly awaiting the game this summer, we heard it would be an expensive starter, and I think a lot of us thought "Okay, like $160... maybe $200?" and put money aside. Then, Grand Master shows up in limited supply for $300, and we all got catastrophic sticker shock. Shock so hard, a lot of folks are still posting around the internet in November about how it's an elitist game that no one can afford.

In reality, the prices are completely in line with GW's models; A knight is $140, the slightly smaller Warlord Titan is $110. A Redemptor dreadnought is $65, a comparably sized Reaver is $60. A dreadnought is $46, while a pair of simularly sized Warhounds are $65, making them quite a bargain.

I really think the lack of a true starter set, and the brutally priced "Grand Master Edition" being perceived as the starter, is what got things off on the wrong foot. Imagine if Dark Imperium came with the full kits instead of mono-pose starter models, and cost $510. (My very rough estimate of the cost of all of the content in their full kit form, assuming unique single character models are $35 on average. Think of the savings, you get the whole rule set for free!)

Oggthrok wrote:
I continue to see Adeptus Titanicus maligned online as a "niche within a niche" with startups costs that are too high for anyone to be expected to play it.

This forum might be like preaching to the choir, but I feel like the game just didn't get a proper starter set. When we were eagerly awaiting the game this summer, we heard it would be an expensive starter, and I think a lot of us thought "Okay, like $160... maybe $200?" and put money aside. Then, Grand Master shows up in limited supply for $300, and we all got catastrophic sticker shock. Shock so hard, a lot of folks are still posting around the internet in November about how it's an elitist game that no one can afford.

In reality, the prices are completely in line with GW's models; A knight is $140, the slightly smaller Warlord Titan is $110. A Redemptor dreadnought is $65, a comparably sized Reaver is $60. A dreadnought is $46, while a pair of simularly sized Warhounds are $65, making them quite a bargain.

I really think the lack of a true starter set, and the brutally priced "Grand Master Edition" being perceived as the starter, is what got things off on the wrong foot. Imagine if Dark Imperium came with the full kits instead of mono-pose starter models, and cost $510. (My very rough estimate of the cost of all of the content in their full kit form, assuming unique single character models are $35 on average. Think of the savings, you get the whole rule set for free!)

I, of course, agree with you.

What might also have been discouraging is the Warlord Titan being seen as the primary unit of a force, much like a squad of Space Marines in 40K. Its good for what it is( the most we can expect to pay for a Titan, and its awesome! ), but when the community is throwing around "1-3 Warlords" for their initial battle force...many on the sidelines have thrown their hands up and said "sod this for a game of soldiers!" when just a single Warlord is £65.

We certainly were not expecting GW to roll out a "First Strike" or even a "Know no fear", but they could have at least done something on the price scale of Dark Imperium. Even if it was just the Ruleset and two Reavers with a 20% discount...a lot more people would have jumped on board the AT train...

 Toofast wrote:

 Fajita Fan wrote:
Like I said no GW store stocks AT due to shelf space but not allowing anyone to play unless the place is deserted is total crap.

If your group that plays at another store offered to play there to show off the game and he tries to push back that’s worth a call to customer service. That would NEVER happen at my GW here.

It blows my mind that they would release a new specialist game and then not stock it in stores. How do they expect anyone to start playing the game if they don't stock or support it at their own stores?

I talked to my GW manager today. The stores are not meant to stock AT as their shelf space is meant to primarily be taken up by AoS and 40k. Any manager who does not promote playing ANY GW product that’s sold in stores or through the web should be questioned. He’s promoting the 40k Monopoly that was just sold, over the years we’ve played Space Hulk, Dreadfleet, Gorkamorka, BFG, Bloodbowl, and Kill Team long before KT was a “thing” in our local GW with full support from the staff. The idea of keeping smaller games off the tables is nonesense.

It mainly suffers from being in the dry, stick-up-their-own-behind, trying-to-make-40K-"serioussss", "no-bright-colours-allowed" Heresy train wreck of a setting.

Bring back some classic 40K fun and over-the-top quirkiness in the models and background, and it'll sell like hot cakes.

It needs rules for this...

Sunny Side Up wrote:
It mainly suffers from being in the dry, stick-up-their-own-behind, trying-to-make-40K-"serioussss", "no-bright-colours-allowed" Heresy train wreck of a setting.

Bring back some classic 40K fun and over-the-top quirkiness in the models and background, and it'll sell like hot cakes.

Or, you can enjoy all that design studio midlife crisis stuff in mainline 40K since that seems firmly where they're off to lately, and let the rest of us enjoy the part of the setting that's a bit more interesting than "hurr hurr I made a funneh" joke names and the like.

 Techpriestsupport wrote:
It needs rules for this...

SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY ALREADY!!!

 Fajita Fan wrote:

 Toofast wrote:

 Fajita Fan wrote:
Like I said no GW store stocks AT due to shelf space but not allowing anyone to play unless the place is deserted is total crap.

If your group that plays at another store offered to play there to show off the game and he tries to push back that’s worth a call to customer service. That would NEVER happen at my GW here.

It blows my mind that they would release a new specialist game and then not stock it in stores. How do they expect anyone to start playing the game if they don't stock or support it at their own stores?

I talked to my GW manager today. The stores are not meant to stock AT as their shelf space is meant to primarily be taken up by AoS and 40k. Any manager who does not promote playing ANY GW product that’s sold in stores or through the web should be questioned. He’s promoting the 40k Monopoly that was just sold, over the years we’ve played Space Hulk, Dreadfleet, Gorkamorka, BFG, Bloodbowl, and Kill Team long before KT was a “thing” in our local GW with full support from the staff. The idea of keeping smaller games off the tables is nonesense.

My GW manager doesn't discourage playing it, but nobody is going to play it because nobody else plays it and the models aren't on the shelf. If GW ran an event like the recent kill team campaign for AT18 and stocked 1 or 2 boxes each of Warlord, Warhound, Reaver titans, and knights then it would probably take off. They don't need to devote a whole section of the store to it, but at least show that it's a thing that exists and run an event for it.

SamusDrake wrote:

I, of course, agree with you.

Yay! (I'll take any time this happens on the internet that I can get )

SamusDrake wrote:
What might also have been discouraging is the Warlord Titan being seen as the primary unit of a force, much like a squad of Space Marines in 40K. Its good for what it is( the most we can expect to pay for a Titan, and its awesome! ), but when the community is throwing around "1-3 Warlords" for their initial battle force...many on the sidelines have thrown their hands up and said "sod this for a game of soldiers!" when just a single Warlord is £65.

Absolutely, and GW to their credit has done really amazing things to try to make up for this. Take the release of the Titan Battlegroup this month; to my thinking, that box is an entire army for this game, at about 30% off MSRP for its parts, before the inevitable online or FLGS discounting a lot of us depend on to afford our hobby. I feel like around $150 for the majority of an army is pretty good.

Do you think they could have avoided the initial shock, if they'd rolled out with the Reaver as the initial titan? It's a less impressive kit, but at less than half the cost I think it would have been an easier pill for most folks to swollow.

SamusDrake wrote:
We certainly were not expecting GW to roll out a "First Strike" or even a "Know no fear", but they could have at least done something on the price scale of Dark Imperium. Even if it was just the Ruleset and two Reavers with a 20% discount...a lot more people would have jumped on board the AT train...

Absolutely agreed. Part of me thinks that spending the extra money to make an "Easy" warlord kit that could sell for $45 like they did with the Redemptor would make the game a lot more approachable. Then again, my understanding is that this was going to be one of those forgettable boutique resin games like "Aeronautica Imperialis," and that we're very lucky to get plastic kits at all.

That will be the real test moving forward... getting the game through this Forgeworld tiny-game-for-only-a-few-people to something they would want to invest in to make a full blown epic. (Or failing that, at least make me a couple plastic gargant kits so I can die happy )

An Easy-To-Build Reaver would a bloody godsend to anyone who’s worked on the actual kit!

 Fajita Fan wrote:
An Easy-To-Build Reaver would a bloody godsend to anyone who’s worked on the actual kit!

Come on mate, it’s only a half dozen pieces. Per foot. Then just an armor plate, and then the other armor plate. Oh, and the armor plate that goes over the two prior armor plates. Then the knee armor plate. Easy, quick, now just do it again, and you can start debating how to get those arm cables to match up, and if you want to reverse engineer bloody magnet points, or move on to realizing you put the inner leg plates on backwards...

I just realize I voted no because I thought the poll said "Is AT a bust."

Reee.

Anyways, to get back on to topic, I really wish there was an easy build Reaver or that new titan that's between a Warlord and a Reaver was in AT so I could skip Reavers altogether.

Oggthrok wrote:

 Fajita Fan wrote:
An Easy-To-Build Reaver would a bloody godsend to anyone who’s worked on the actual kit!

Come on mate, it’s only a half dozen pieces. Per foot. Then just an armor plate, and then the other armor plate. Oh, and the armor plate that goes over the two prior armor plates. Then the knee armor plate. Easy, quick, now just do it again, and you can start debating how to get those arm cables to match up, and if you want to reverse engineer bloody magnet points, or move on to realizing you put the inner leg plates on backwards...

This is how many I’ve done so far.

Hurry up or i catch you

3 more unopened in my car that I'm going to exchange for the new weapons sprues. I'm off today so I might some gold layered down on my Warlord and I'm off next week before Christmas to hopefully make progress.

Oggthrok wrote:

I really think the lack of a true starter set, and the brutally priced "Grand Master Edition" being perceived as the starter, is what got things off on the wrong foot. Imagine if Dark Imperium came with the full kits instead of mono-pose starter models, and cost $510. (My very rough estimate of the cost of all of the content in their full kit form, assuming unique single character models are $35 on average. Think of the savings, you get the whole rule set for free!)

IMO, they really ought to release a starter that's a Reaver, two Warhounds, and the rules. That would be a lot less expensive than the Grand Master Edition (checking in at $185 at current MSRP for the components), and quite literally gives you everything that you need to play a legal maniple (that's the core of a Venator light maniple). Then you could either buy another Warhound box to fill out the maniple, or add a Warlord and Reaver to move on up the chain. And, of course, add knights as desired. The problem with a starter that focuses on the Warlord is that not only does it make the box quite a bit more expensive (since a warlord is nearly double the price of a reaver), but it also only helps you build two out of the three currently legal maniples. For that reason alone, any starter set really needs to contain the Reaver.

In response to the right-honorable Oggthrok...

Looking back on the launch, I see expectations for the game being over £100 and the most expensive yet...at around £120 - £140. Even for GW standards, £175 was ill-advised. On the other hand, they did leave the option of buying the rule set on its own at a more sensible £35...but with only the Warlord and Knights to chose from there seemed little point to it.

Yes, the reaver would have been the natural choice for the initial titan, but to be honest I think it could have been released alongside the Warlord and Knights, and thus allowing for a second boxed game to meet that £130 sweet spot.

My only impression of AT is by online reviews and youtube playthroughs. Making an educated guess, a proper starter set would either be two Reavers having a duel( ala Imperial Knight Renegade ) or a set with 2 Warhounds and 6 Knights to provide each player with at least a titan with three support units. I'm personally going the later path with just the ruleset left to purchase and DIY my own buildings.

While the Battle group is definitely a bargin( a very welcome move by GW ), its not actually pushing the game itself into the hands of players. This game still needs its "dark imperium"...

 Fajita Fan wrote:

This is how many I’ve done so far.

Das a' thing of beauty, I tip my hat to you.

I bet after about four, I'd get good enough to not glue the inner leg plates on backwards... (Or, I may be mis-remembering, it may be the Warlord I did backwards... both are complicated kits, but the Reaver seemed much harder for some reason...)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Eumerin wrote:
The problem with a starter that focuses on the Warlord is that not only does it make the box quite a bit more expensive (since a warlord is nearly double the price of a reaver), but it also only helps you build two out of the three currently legal maniples. For that reason alone, any starter set really needs to contain the Reaver.

Agreed on all points.

Plus, there's the problem of building up to something. They started big, and worked to small, so a lot of folks see the Warlord and are like "Okay, when do I get an Imperator?" If we started with hounds and Reavers, it would make the Warlord feel like the biggest most massivest thing ever.

All water under the command deck now though - so long as the game exists, I'll just be grateful we got plastic multi-part knights and titans for the entire Imperial range, with the hope of new designs in the future.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

SamusDrake wrote:
In response to the right-honorable Oggthrok...

It takes a gent to recognize one, my good sir.

SamusDrake wrote:
Looking back on the launch, I see expectations for the game being over £100 and the most expensive yet...at around £120 - £140. Even for GW standards, £175 was ill-advised.

It certainly shifted a lot of eager buyers into jilted wait-and-see types. Myself included; I had fully planned to go all in with the Grandmaster, but to go from that darned cheap Killteam box with like 40lbs of terrain and minis and rules, to a $300 box that was the *start* of something... I couldn't do it.

SamusDrake wrote:
On the other hand, they did leave the option of buying the rule set on its own at a more sensible £35...but with only the Warlord and Knights to chose from there seemed little point to it.

This was what saved me actually; after deciding the game wasn't for me on any level at the full price, I ran into a very nice fellow on this very forum's trade board who had over bought into the game. I bought his Warlord, rulebook, and some terrain, and that was enough for me to get my hooks into the game, and build slowly over time.

SamusDrake wrote:

While the Battle group is definitely a bargin( a very welcome move by GW ), its not actually pushing the game itself into the hands of players. This game still needs its "dark imperium"...

Absolutely, with an easy build Warlord, and Ork Great Gargant. Let me pitch it: high above the infantry and tank skirmishes, Ork and Imperial Titans battle it out on the blasted wastes of Armageddon, only to find themselves facing a new foe - the advancing forces of the Black Crusade. That way, we can introduce both xenos, and demonic warped titans at the same time.

An ork can dream...

went to my local GW shop about 3 months ago as i needed a box of nights.
"we dont stock specialist games you have to order from the webshop and come back in a week" was the reply.....

what the feth, this aint 2005 where there was 5+ specialist games whit huge amount of model selection, this is 2018.
it dont take THAT mutch space to keep 3 boxes of each model on the wall.......

ofc your not going to gain popularity for a game that their own stores wont even sell models for...
that combined whit no low priced starter army makes shure that AT will remain the unknown oddball whitin GW.

It's weird that GW still isn't stocking its own games. Oh well. I haven't been in a GW in ages as luckily I work quite near to Dark Sphere.

I agree wtih most others that the GME was the problem. One of the worst things about it for me is that two warlords aren't even a legal maniple. Added to that, it would have been far better if one of them had the alternate weapon sprue, for a bit of variety.

Presumably now anyone who does play AT has kind of a non-varied game, featuring a load of volcano cannon shots back and forth. The actual experience of playing the game would have been far more interesting with a close in bruiser vs a ranged guy, or indeed with a warlord and some knights vs a reiver and a pair of warhounds (if they still wanted to go for a mega box).

It may well be that Titandeath is the shot in the arm that the game needs. Adding a few more maniples and legions would be a great improvement to the game.

I managed to pick up a GME this week for a bit under RRP. It's a nice set but to be honest I'm slightly regretting not just getting the set of 5 titans and a rulebook. I think I'll wait for Titandeath before buying anything else, with the possible exception of a plasma warlord. To me personally they seem like much better models than the reivers and warhounds, probably because they were designed years later.

Mandragola wrote:

Presumably now anyone who does play AT has kind of a non-varied game, featuring a load of volcano cannon shots back and forth. The actual experience of playing the game would have been far more interesting with a close in bruiser vs a ranged guy, or indeed with a warlord and some knights vs a reiver and a pair of warhounds (if they still wanted to go for a mega box).

...whut? I've played a whole lot and never had a problem just going "this Warlord has plasma and macro-gatling" while waiting for the extra weapons to come out. I mean, whu? The Reaver and the Warhounds came out a month or two after the big box, which is less time than most people take to even get their first engines painted. It is purely one's own personal problem if they are for some reason stuck using double Belicosas instead of trying things out. Can't see why that would be hard for anyone FOR THE FIRST FEW MONTHS of the game's life, after which there is already plenty of variation out even for wysiwyg fanatics.

 Sherrypie wrote:

Mandragola wrote:

Presumably now anyone who does play AT has kind of a non-varied game, featuring a load of volcano cannon shots back and forth. The actual experience of playing the game would have been far more interesting with a close in bruiser vs a ranged guy, or indeed with a warlord and some knights vs a reiver and a pair of warhounds (if they still wanted to go for a mega box).

...whut? I've played a whole lot and never had a problem just going "this Warlord has plasma and macro-gatling" while waiting for the extra weapons to come out. I mean, whu? The Reaver and the Warhounds came out a month or two after the big box, which is less time than most people take to even get their first engines painted. It is purely one's own personal problem if they are for some reason stuck using double Belicosas instead of trying things out. Can't see why that would be hard for anyone FOR THE FIRST FEW MONTHS of the game's life, after which there is already plenty of variation out even for wysiwyg fanatics.

Fair enough. I take your point on proxying, converting etc.

I do think it'd have been a better set with more variety in it - or just less stuff in it generally so that it cost less. It's less good value because you need to buy extra weapon sets. But it does give you enough minis to play the game. I maintain that it's pretty weird to give you two head options that are basically identical!

On the plus side, I do like the look of the rules. It seems like the various different weapon options all have their uses and the costings look about right.

Mandragola wrote:

Presumably now anyone who does play AT has kind of a non-varied game, featuring a load of volcano cannon shots back and forth. The actual experience of playing the game would have been far more interesting with a close in bruiser vs a ranged guy, or indeed with a warlord and some knights vs a reiver and a pair of warhounds (if they still wanted to go for a mega box).

Hmm dunno. I have good time blastering enemy titans with paired gatling blasters, then peppering some more with macro gatling blasters before finishing of with sunfury. Or combining quake cannon and volcano cannon for long range fire.

tneva82 wrote:

Mandragola wrote:

Presumably now anyone who does play AT has kind of a non-varied game, featuring a load of volcano cannon shots back and forth. The actual experience of playing the game would have been far more interesting with a close in bruiser vs a ranged guy, or indeed with a warlord and some knights vs a reiver and a pair of warhounds (if they still wanted to go for a mega box).

Hmm dunno. I have good time blastering enemy titans with paired gatling blasters, then peppering some more with macro gatling blasters before finishing of with sunfury. Or combining quake cannon and volcano cannon for long range fire.

I reckon that I'll probably run a warlord with volcano and quake cannons, with missiles on the roof. Just not sure if I want to risk chopping up one of the volcano cannons to make the quake!

I've got a couple of spare gatling-type things spare from repulsor kits. I might see what can be done with those.

All my games have been WYSIWYG, but there's enough variety with two Reavers to make things interesting. Even with the same weapons each time, different missions make the tactical choices different.

Mandragola wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

Mandragola wrote:

Presumably now anyone who does play AT has kind of a non-varied game, featuring a load of volcano cannon shots back and forth. The actual experience of playing the game would have been far more interesting with a close in bruiser vs a ranged guy, or indeed with a warlord and some knights vs a reiver and a pair of warhounds (if they still wanted to go for a mega box).

Hmm dunno. I have good time blastering enemy titans with paired gatling blasters, then peppering some more with macro gatling blasters before finishing of with sunfury. Or combining quake cannon and volcano cannon for long range fire.

I reckon that I'll probably run a warlord with volcano and quake cannons, with missiles on the roof. Just not sure if I want to risk chopping up one of the volcano cannons to make the quake!

I've got a couple of spare gatling-type things spare from repulsor kits. I might see what can be done with those.

Just wait for the official kits. Sometimes you want volcano and quake, other times 2 volcano. Maybe even 2 quake cannons though that might be bit less common(big thing about quake cannons is knocking titan off from fire arc before it gets to shoot. One can do that. 2nd could even negate the first one...Though 2nd gives better chance of doing it rather than flipping backwards)

tneva82 wrote:

Mandragola wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

Mandragola wrote:

Presumably now anyone who does play AT has kind of a non-varied game, featuring a load of volcano cannon shots back and forth. The actual experience of playing the game would have been far more interesting with a close in bruiser vs a ranged guy, or indeed with a warlord and some knights vs a reiver and a pair of warhounds (if they still wanted to go for a mega box).

Hmm dunno. I have good time blastering enemy titans with paired gatling blasters, then peppering some more with macro gatling blasters before finishing of with sunfury. Or combining quake cannon and volcano cannon for long range fire.

I reckon that I'll probably run a warlord with volcano and quake cannons, with missiles on the roof. Just not sure if I want to risk chopping up one of the volcano cannons to make the quake!

I've got a couple of spare gatling-type things spare from repulsor kits. I might see what can be done with those.

Just wait for the official kits. Sometimes you want volcano and quake, other times 2 volcano. Maybe even 2 quake cannons though that might be bit less common(big thing about quake cannons is knocking titan off from fire arc before it gets to shoot. One can do that. 2nd could even negate the first one...Though 2nd gives better chance of doing it rather than flipping backwards)

Yeah waiting is probably the best approach. I’ll defini want the option of at least two volcano cannons, but perhaps not four. I’m a bit nervous that it might take longer for the official versions of guns that don’t yet exist in 40k.

To be fair, the releases have come pretty fast. It’s a better situation than the launch of bloodbowl. We have all the rules and models that we need, and it’s in the nature of these things that GW will want us to keep buying stuff.